dit Lafleur--where did it originate?
Mike Lafleur
Can anyone shed any light on the origin of the "dit Lafleur" appended to some
french
names? Does it refer--as has been guessed--to a "dweller at or near the sign of
the
flower"?
I am told that my earliest probable direct ancestor was named Jean ANDRI dit
Lafleur,
who was a soldier at Fort Toulouse in modern day Alabama. However, in
Louisiana, there
were also other families who were "dit Lafleur," such as "BERZAS dit Lafleur."
Legend has it that the Louisiana LAFLEURs originated in Brittany. Although
Jean ANDRI
dit Lafleur probably came directly from France, there are many LAFLEURs in
Quebec and in
the New England states, some perhaps descended from "Claude PETITPAS, Seigneur
de la
Fleur." Marcel Poirier is searching on the Internet for connections to POIRIER
dit
Lafleur.
An author from Montlouis, dep. Indre-et-Loire, has written that he has found
interesting information on the American LAFLEUR in Touraine, but he has provided
no
further information.
The above is the total of my knowledge regarding the origin of my name. I
will
appreciate any additional information you may provide. Thank you.
Mike Lafleur mlaf...@vnet.net
Roger Hetu
> Mike Lafleur mlaf...@vnet.net
There are many surnames that has the "dit Lafleur". For example my ancestor
name was in France "Estu" or "Estur" or "Ethur" depending of the record.
He came to Canada as marine soldier where he got the nickname "Lafleur".
When he left the military he used the name "Estu dit Lafleur".
For a couple of generations we find in records: "Estu dit Lafleur", "Estu" ,
"Lafleur".
Later the descendants change to "Etu" then to "Hetu".
In my searches I found that "Lafleur" was a "dit name" for many surnames.
I believe that most of them came from a military nickname.
Regards,
Roger,
--------------------------------------------------------------
! Roger Hetu, rh...@hitek.login.net !
! Societe de Genealogie de Lanaudiere !
! Berthier, Joliette, Montcalm, L'Assomption Co !
! Quebec, Canada !
--------------------------------------------------------------
RossignolP
Dans l'article <321959...@vnet.net>, Mike Lafleur <mlaf...@VNET.NET>
écrit :
>Can anyone shed any light on the origin of the "dit Lafleur" appended to
some
> french
>names?
It is only an very common nickname for a soldier. No relation with a
family name wich is, for you, ANDRE (E accute) which is a very common name
from a first name.
I hope that help.
Philippe Rossignol
Interested in all french families in or from west indies
Mike Lafleur
Roger Hetu wrote:
>
> There are many surnames that has the "dit Lafleur". For example my ancestor
> name was in France "Estu" or "Estur" or "Ethur" depending of the record.
> He came to Canada as marine soldier where he got the nickname "Lafleur".
>
> When he left the military he used the name "Estu dit Lafleur".
> For a couple of generations we find in records: "Estu dit Lafleur", "Estu" ,
> "Lafleur".
> Later the descendants change to "Etu" then to "Hetu".
>
> In my searches I found that "Lafleur" was a "dit name" for many surnames.
> I believe that most of them came from a military nickname.
>
> Regards,
>
> Roger,
Hi Roger,
Thank you for the information. Since my Jean ANDRE dit Lafleur was a
soldier, I am
interested in your belief that "dit Lafleur" was (or came from) a
military nickname.
Can you give me more detail?
Another respondent to my original post found it interesting that in one
of the
volumes of the book set, "Our French-Canadian Ancestors" by Father Gerard
Lebel,
Touraine was referred to as "The Garden of France." (Touraine was the
location I
mentioned in my original post where a French author had found
"interesting
information on the American LAFLEUR.") The implied suggestion is that
one nicknamed
"the flower" might have come from the "garden of France." Touraine is,
of course,
not Brittany, where legend supposedly holds that my Louisiana LAFLEURs
originated,
but it is adjacent to it.
The respondent included another quote from the same set of books where
its author is
discussing 'dit' names. This quotation lends more weight to "dit
Lafleur" being a
locational reference: "The fifth category, that of the natural phenomena,
is endless
in practical application! French historian, Francois de Vaux de
Foletier, contends
that the Gypsies of France adopted names from nature and that many of
their
descendants made their way to Quebec. Among these names we note:
Laforest,
Laramee, Larose, Laverdure, Lavigne, Lavoilette, to mention but a few.
Another
large group of Canadian names must have been born in a flower garden or
fruit
orchard: Bellefleur and Lafleur may include the Bellerose, with or
without the
thorns. No less pretty, each in its own way, are Latulippe, Lapensee,
Laviolette,
not to forget the heavily scented Jasmin. When one picks Laframboise,
the hands
become Lorange. Laplante bedecks our homes. When the rain fails we must
use
Lafontaine. If we need shade we can count on Labranche, better than
Laverdure or
Lavigne, unless of course, it is attached to Latreille. Lahaie circles an
enclosure
while our garden might be on the edge of a Boisjoli, within which we
could count the
Delormes, Duchenes, Dufrenes, Desnoyers and Desgroseilliers."
Regards,
Mike Lafleur <mlaf...@vnet.net>
Roger Hetu
> Hi Roger,
> Regards,
> Mike Lafleur <mlaf...@vnet.net>
Hi Mike,
In February 96, Michel Robert <lapom...@MSN.COM> posted on the
gen-fr-l the lists of soldiers of the companies of the Carignan regiment.
I was surprised to see that the same "dit names" was often in every
companies:
Examples:
Chambly company: J.B. Poirier dit La Jeunesse
Rene Poupart dit La Fleur
Pierre Mercan dit La Pierre
Jn-Ls Baritault dit La Marche
La Durantaye company: Mathurin Besnard dit La Jeunesse
Contrecoeur company: Etienne Benoist dit La Jeunesse
Guillaume Beautrefils dit La Fleur
DesPortes company : Pierre Augrand dit La Pierre
Andre Betourne dit Laviolette
Dugue company: Jean Bricault dit La Marche
Pierre ... dit La Pierre
Note that I found only a few companies. If you want them all contact
Michel Robert.
In general it is also evident that the majority of the soldier's
"dit name" start with "La" as in: (found in the soldiers list)
La Combe, La Pierre, La Fontaine, La Jauge, La Roze, La Tulippe,
La Jeunesse, La Fleur, La Musique, La Rame, La Chapelle, La Chaume,
La Prairie, La Pensee, La Douceur, La Cave, La Violette,
La Riviere, La Briere, La Faveur, La Verdure, La Pointe, etc.
I am not saying that all "dit names" are military nicknames but I think
that if the use of military nicknames was for strategic reason (secrecy)
one would expect a not too revealing or unique nickname. A La Fleur or
La Violette in every other companies should discourage any would be spy.
(But not a genealogist)
When I tried to find out on wich vessel my soldier ancestor traveled
I could only narrow it down to three: Le Mulet, La Diligente et Le
Fourgon. The names of who was on which boat seems to be another
military secret. If anyone has the list for these vessels I would
love to hear from him.
At the library we have a book that lists all names related to a
"dit name" I will check it out to see how many have "dit Lafleur".
Rlafleur99
My ancestor Gabriel Girard dit Lafleur married in Yamaska in 1762. His
parents were listed as Alexis Girard and Francoise Noaric, from
Romagne-sous-Montfaucon in the Meuse region of France. So, I do not think
the use of the dit name Lafleur has geographic connotations. I would tend
to believe more strongly in the military theory. Although I have not seen
anything to indicate my ancestor was a soldier, it seems likely.
Robert Brault
Bonjour Mike,
Mike Lafleur <mlaf...@VNET.NET> wrote:
>Can anyone shed any light on the origin of the "dit Lafleur" appended to some
> french
>names? Does it refer--as has been guessed--to a "dweller at or near the sign of
> the
>flower"?
I have also some Brault dit Lafleur in my research in Quebec; I am not
sure where it came from but my guess is that it might be related from
their place of origin in France if there is (was?) such a place called
Lafleur (?). Could be then that it changed from xxxx de Lafleur (from
Lafleur) to dit Lafleur (said Lafleur).
Could also be that there were 2 branches of the same family name and
it was only a way to differenciate the 2 branches...
Bye,
////
(-o-o-)
( o )
_____oOOo_____________oOOo_____
Robert Brault
e-mail: bra...@csmanoirs.qc.ca
Robert à André, à Gaston, à Agapit, à Louis,
à Louis-Joseph, à Joseph, à Joseph, à Joseph,
à Pierre, à Vincent
Mike Lafleur
Philippe-
Thank you for your comments. My original belief was that "dit Lafleur"
was a locational reference. Now, because of your comments and those of
Roger Hetu, I will have to re-examine my source material. I have noted
that many soldiers had nicknames (dit-names), but nicknames seemed to be
very common in general in my home state of Louisiana.
I have been sending my posts with the 'E accute' in ANDRE, but my mail
server apparently strips of the 8th bit, causing it to appear as 'I'. I
will have to ask my internet provider if that can be fixed. Regards.
-Mike Lafleur
mlaf...@vnet.net
Mike Lafleur
Roger Hetu wrote:
Thank you very much for the elaboration, Roger. My assumption thus far
has been that "dit Lafleur" was a locational reference. I had not suspected
at all that it might somehow be associated with the military, along with other
nicknames (dit names). Philippe Rossignol, who also responded to this thread,
supports this interpretation. I will have to revisit my source material with
that in mind. Your association of the "dit names" with secrecy is also very
intriguing. Thank you also for the information about the soldier lists for
the Carignan regiment; I will contact Mr. Robert. Best wishes for success in
your searches. Regards.
-Mike
Roger Hetu
Hi Mike,
To illustrate the popularity of the nickname "Lafleur" hence its
likelyhood of military origin, here is the list of surname of
Quebec's ancestors who have the "dit name" dit Lafleur.
Source: Repertoire des nom de famille du Quebec,
par Rene Jette, Micheline Lecuyer
Durocher dit Lafleur, Palue dit Lafleur, Auger dit Lafleur,
Bailly dit Lafleur, Bardet dit Lafleur, Barsa dit Lafleur,
Batz dit Lafleur, Begard dit Lafleur, Beigue dit Lafleur,
Berniac dit Lafleur, Bertrand dit Lafleur, Biroleau dit Lafleur,
Bonpart dit Lafleur, Brault dit Lafleur, Brousson dit Lafleur,
Chantal dit Lafleur, Charbonnier dit Lafleur, Chauvreau dit Lafleur,
Coste dit Lafleur, Couc dit Lafleur, Coussy dit Lafleur,
Delasse dit Lafleur, Dionet dit Lafleur, Drousson dit Lafleur,
Dumont dit Lafleur, Duriveau dit Lafleur, Dussault dit Lafleur,
Fauconnet dit Lafleur, Fleuret dit Lafleur, Galet dit Lafleur,
Gipoulou dit Lafleur, Girard dit Lafleur, Gregy dit Lafleur,
Gruet dit Lafleur, Hetu dit Lafleur, Jacom dit Lafleur, Jean dit Lafleur,
Jerome dit Lafleur, Laforge dit Lafleur, Lalumaudiere dit Lafleur,
Lecompte dit Lafleur, Meunier dit Lafleur, Minson dit Lafleur,
Monin dit Lafleur, Pavie dit Lafleur, Pedemonte dit Lafleur,
Pelisson dit Lafleur, Pepie dit Lafleur, Perodeau dit Lafleur,
Perrier dit Lafleur, Pinsonnault dit Lafleur, Piquet dit Lafleur,
Pitre dit Lafleur, Plamondon dit Lafleur, Pleau dit Lafleur,
Poirier dit Lafleur, Poitevin dit Lafleur, Poupard dit Lafleur,
Prieur dit Lafleur, Provost dit Lafleur, Richard dit Lafleur,
Rodier dit Lafleur, Roussin dit Lafleur, Sevigny dit Lafleur,
Simon dit Lafleur, Siret dit Lafleur, Thibault dit Lafleur,
Touche dit Lafleur, Triolet dit Lafleur, Troge dit Lafleur,
Vergne dit Lafleur.
WOW ! Your "Garden" must have been fairly large ;-)
Could we say that the purpose of military nickname is to make
a person anonymous and a "civil" dit name is to make a person
distinguished?
Christine Bolduc
In our genealogy book, which a remote cousin did in 1979, we have a typed
transcipt of a promise to act as a bond servant from the mother of
Honore Schmidt and Jean-Baptiste Campault, a local Vaudreuil farmer.
In the notarized promised dated October 30, 1801 Honore, a child of nine,
becomes the bond servant until he turns twenty-one but he must bear
the farmers name thereafter. His name became Honore Smith (Schmidt) dit
Campeau.
My uncle came across a Mme Schmidt dit Campeau whose father shortened
the name to Campeau.
Hope this helps.
Best regards,
Christine J. Schmidt-Bolduc
Annette Vitale-Salajanu
Christine,
Some years ago an elderly and long standing friend of my mother passed
away. She was predeceased by her only daughter and had no relatives that
she was apparently in close contact with. At her funeral, the executor of
her estate, gave my mother an album of old photographs belonging to this
lady. My mother does not know if the album from from this lady's family,
or from the family of one of her two husbands. We wish to find the proper
family of decendents for this album. In the album, a name is inscribed in
the fly page which seems to
indicate that it once belonged to LAURA LEMERE.
There is also the following in the album:
a memorial card for one Fred Griesbach who died on March 4, 1891 age 44
years, a death clipping for "Schmidt, Marguerite, daughter of Chas and
Gertrude Schmidt. Sunday, March 5, 1905 at 163 Roeder Street, Funeral Wed.
afternoonn 2:00." Do you have anyone in your Schmidt family tree with
these names?
There is also a photo taken at Campbell Photo, 134 Gratiot Street, Detroit,
MI, and one taken at Arthur Philbric Studios at 21 Canal Street in Grand
Rapids, MI.
Some of the pictures are of men in very old military uniforms.
If you have any information about Laura Lemere or her decendents, please
let me know. Thanks very much! You can respond by e-mail at the above
address or at P.O. Box 1487, Dearborn, MI 48121
-Annette
Christine Bolduc
Hello Annette,
I looked up all the names but without any luck. However there are
other Schmidts. My ancestor Christian Jacob Schmidt, a hessian soldier
married twice and had issue with each of these wives before marrieing
a third time with Marie-Josephte Rose Dagenais in 1790. He was in
Canada from 1760. Perhaps these two other lines are the ones that
might have emigrated to the Michigan area. From the biography of
Charles Chiniquiy, a catholic priest who became a protestant minister,
and a close friend of Abraham Lincoln, we know there were a lot of
French Canadians who immigrated in that area in the mid 1850s.
Christine Bolduc
Christine Bolduc
Annette Vitale-Salajanu
Christine,
In the album there are a lot of pictures of guys in uniforms. If I sent
you a photocopy of some of the pictures, do you think you could tell if
they are 'hessian'? Do you know the names of your ancestors other wives?
-Annette