Pierre Genereux la soldat
jim simon
In my request as to Jette's source naming La Groye as Pierre's captain,
you replied:
Likely because he used the list of companies from Roy/Malchelosse.
I have searched the National Library of Canada, Amicus search engine,
for the works of Roy & Malchelosse. And although I have found many
references and their work on the Carignan-Sallieres Regiment , I was
unable to find any works concerning the captains or troops of the
marines for the period of 1683 to early 1700, the years that both de
Grais and La Groye were both active captains of the colonial troops.
Have I over looked something?
Jette himself included both De Grais & La Groye in his dictionary. And I
have found numerous references to both in my search of the National
Archives of Canada, Colonial Archives, general correspondences. One
particular dated 20 Oct., 1695, mentions them both.
I also searched Jette's Dictionary and found that he identified 19
persons as soldiers of La Groye. Where did he get this information?
Pierre's marriage record is quite clear that his captain was de Grais,
but the priest who recorded it may have misunderstood, and wrote De
Grais instead od La Groye. And Pierre would probably not have known the
difference. I do hope Pierre's commander was La Groye, simply because
how, when, and what group of recruits he took command of is well
documented, but at this point I am still not sure.
Any and all suggestion are greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Jim Simon
Anchorville Mi.
Denis Beauregard
<lady...@bluewaterarea.com> écrivait dans soc.genealogy.french:
>Denis,
>In my request as to Jette's source naming La Groye as Pierre's captain,
>you replied:
>
>Likely because he used the list of companies from Roy/Malchelosse.
>
>I have searched the National Library of Canada, Amicus search engine,
>for the works of Roy & Malchelosse. And although I have found many
>references and their work on the Carignan-Sallieres Regiment , I was
>unable to find any works concerning the captains or troops of the
>marines for the period of 1683 to early 1700, the years that both de
>Grais and La Groye were both active captains of the colonial troops.
>Have I over looked something?
>
>Jette himself included both De Grais & La Groye in his dictionary. And I
>have found numerous references to both in my search of the National
>Archives of Canada, Colonial Archives, general correspondences. One
>particular dated 20 Oct., 1695, mentions them both.
Perhaps, if we have 2 different companies De Grais and La Groye,
then there is a typo ? Don't forget that the DGFQ in 1983 was not
a computer document but was completely re-typed manually.
>I also searched Jette's Dictionary and found that he identified 19
>persons as soldiers of La Groye. Where did he get this information?
Do you have a list of them ? Where did you search ? The PRDH web
site or database or printed books ? The original records ?
Parchemin ? Nothing ?
By the way, how did you find the 19 soldiers ? Looking pages
one by one ?
>Pierre's marriage record is quite clear that his captain was de Grais,
>but the priest who recorded it may have misunderstood, and wrote De
>Grais instead od La Groye. And Pierre would probably not have known the
>difference. I do hope Pierre's commander was La Groye, simply because
>how, when, and what group of recruits he took command of is well
>documented, but at this point I am still not sure.
>
>Any and all suggestion are greatly appreciated.
The company can be that of Louis-Joseph-Hyacinthe LEGOUES de GRAIS.
Was a captain from 1687 probably until his death in 1700 when 40 y.o.
Denis
--
0 Denis Beauregard
/\/ Web de généalogie: http://www.genealogie.com (français)
|\ Genealogy Web site: http://www.francogene.com (English)
/ | >>Adresse modifiée souvent/email changed frequently<<
oo oo Ancestors in Quebec ? What about vacations in your homeland!
Stephen Charles Eno
I think we've corresponded before on the subject of Pierre Genereux, who is
also one of my ancestors. I thought that I would throw in a few comments
here myself.
1. As you've indicated, Pierre's marriage record identifies him as a "soldat
de M. le chevalier de Grais". Jette's listing of the name of the company as
Lagroye is probably based on a desire to bring some consistency into his
work. Unfortunately, as Denis Beauregard has pointed out, Jette lists the
officer himself under the name Louis-Joseph-Hyacinthe Legoues de Grais (or
Grays or Graye). This last alternate listed by Jette may give us a hint.
Based on my admittedly limited experience in reading microfilms of original
parish and notary records, I can definitely see how "de Graye" might be read
as "la Groye". I can also see "Legoues" read as "LaGroye" as well (or
conversely LaGroye read as Legoues).
2. Jette's work (as well as most work since then), the published PRDH, and
the online PRDH are all based on a single data base, the PRDH data base.
This is primarily a data base of vital records, i.e., parish records of
baptisms, marriages, and burials as well as census and hospital records,
with reference to some notary records. As such, most of the identification
of military personnel rests on their being listed as such in vital records.
Despite the impressive list of secondary references listed in Jette, it's
clear that they were used primarily to check or to fill in missing vital
statistics about individuals identified from the vital records and that they
were not systematically mined for identification of individuals not
appearing in the vital records or for the type of information that you are
searching for.
I have clear evidence of the latter in that the third son of Pierre Enaud
dit Canada and Marie-Anne Ratel appears in two "inventaires", but is
nevertheless not listed in Jette's original work (but does appear in Jette's
corrections of 1996, although still without a date of death which can be
inferred from the second inventaire). This same son does not appear in the
PRDH at all. How many other individuals who can be identified from notary
and other types of records do not appear in the PRDH because they do not
appear in any vital records?
3. As I'm sure you know, it was the custom of the time to identify companies
by the name of their commanding officer. This means that if the commanding
officer is replaced for one reason or another, the same company will then be
known by a different name, as was the case when the company of DePorte
became the company DuPrat of the Carignan Regiment, with no change in
personnel other than the commanding officer.
In addition, the commanding officers of the time were, to the best of my
knowledge, all noblemen, and as such, they frequently carried names of the
form "nom A de surnom B," as in Legoues de Grais. It was possible for these
individuals to be identified by either their nom or surnom (although the
latter was probably more likely) and therefore Legoues de Grais's might be
referred to as the company "de Legoues" (de Lagroye) or "de Grais."
Both of these situations can make the identification of specific companies
difficult at best.
4. Bravo on your efforts at identifying all of the members of the Lagroye
Company listed in Jette. Started to something like that myself, four or five
years ago, but gave it up. Nineteen settlers out of a company of 50 is an
impressive rate, given that one objective of the Compagnies Franches de la
Marine was to encourage the soldiers to remain as settlers when their tour
of duty was up.
However, they may be many more who settled but were not identified as former
soldiers of the company in their marriage record, marriage contract, or
other vital records. Note also that many individuals are identified in
records simply as sergeant in the Marines, officer of a troop of Marines,
and other forms that don't give any indication of the specific company.
5. I am not aware of any published works on the Compagnies Franches de la
Marine, an area of research that has been sadly overlooked. However, I will
definitely see whether the book mentioned by Helene Lamarche (René
Chartrand, Le patrimoine militaire canadien. Montréal, Art Global,1993
(vol. 1 et 2)) is available at the SGCF library when I visit there in
August.
Steve
--
Stephen Charles Eno
Researching Enaud/Henault dit Canada and allied families
PS: Genereux is one of the families that has been closely allied with the
Enaud dit Canada family over the years.
jim simon
Frontenac's letter of Oct. 15, 1698 requested early discharge with a
years pay.
The letter back to him on Oct. 20, 1699 granted that request.
Jim, Simon
Anchorville, Mi. (at the top of Lake St. Clair)
jim simon
suggestions and comments.
Denis and John, I have checked vital records, PRDH, the Parchemin and
the governor's letters. I have only found one source for Pierre's
military info. That is his marriage record. It states very clearly,
Pierre Genereux soldat de Monsieur le Chevalier de grais de le eveche
Limoge. It appears that Jette used half of that info, that pierre was
from Limoge, but he choice to say Pierre was a soldat of La Groye. Now
we can speculate why, but only he can tell us why he said La Groye. I
would think that he would be very glad to clear this up once and for all
if he could. How might I contact Him?
Denis, There are two theses written about the troupes of the marines.
"The troupes de la marine in Canada, 1683-1760" by Jay Cassel
University Toronto, 1988
"Les troupes de la marines au Canada,1683-1688" by Jean Leclerc,
University Laval 1963
I am trying to get a copy through Amicus, It could be helpful if at
least all the captains are mentioned. And even better if individual
solders are mentioned. Fingers crossed, pencil sharpened, paper ready
and determined to search onward.
Stephen, Yes we have corresponded before about our common ancestor.
I have read vol. 1 of the book by Rene Chartrand, it is historically
very interesting and informative, but it is very general in the
mentioning of the captains of the period. You might try finding the
theses I mentioned above.
What did you think of my list of La Groyes soldiers?
Jim Simon
Anchorville Mi.
Denis Beauregard
<lady...@bluewaterarea.com> wrote in soc.genealogy.french:
>Thanks to Denis Beauergard, John Du Long and Stephen Enos for all your
>suggestions and comments.
>
>Denis and John, I have checked vital records, PRDH, the Parchemin and
>the governor's letters. I have only found one source for Pierre's
>military info. That is his marriage record. It states very clearly,
>Pierre Genereux soldat de Monsieur le Chevalier de grais de le eveche
>Limoge. It appears that Jette used half of that info, that pierre was
>from Limoge, but he choice to say Pierre was a soldat of La Groye. Now
>we can speculate why, but only he can tell us why he said La Groye. I
>would think that he would be very glad to clear this up once and for all
>if he could. How might I contact Him?
I don't think you should contact him. After all, it is one word
in a 1200 pages work that was fully typed a 2nd time (in 1983,
Rene had no personal computer and he is using a PC only recently).
Anyway, he would answer you: forward that to Beauregard who is
keeping track of the errors...
>Denis, There are two theses written about the troupes of the marines.
>"The troupes de la marine in Canada, 1683-1760" by Jay Cassel
>University Toronto, 1988
>"Les troupes de la marines au Canada,1683-1688" by Jean Leclerc,
>University Laval 1963
>I am trying to get a copy through Amicus, It could be helpful if at
>least all the captains are mentioned. And even better if individual
>solders are mentioned. Fingers crossed, pencil sharpened, paper ready
>and determined to search onward.
Usually, the captains are the easiest people to identify since the
companies are called by their name.
Stephen Charles Eno
I have suggested that Louis-Joseph-Hyacinthe Legoues/LaGroye de Grais'
company might be referred to as either la compagnie de LaGroye or la
compagnie de Grais (and later apparently as la compagnie d'Aloigny) and that
Jette chose one version for the sake of consistency. A search through the
PRDH online immediately produced the fact that Pierre Bardet was listed as a
"soldat de la compagnie de la cinquieme Marquis de la Grois", so it's clear
that both forms, "de la Groye/Grois" and "de Grais", were in fact used and
Jette almost certainly selected one form to be consistent.
I'll see if I can find those theses when I'm in Montreal next month.
As I've said, you have more patience that I have. Bravo for making up the
list. Ready to start on the other Compagnies Franches de la Marine? :-)
Bye for now,
Steve Eno (without an "s")
--
Stephen Charles Eno
Researching Enaud/Henault dit Canada and allied families
On 2002/07/18 20:12, in article 3D375967...@bluewaterarea.com, "jim
Stephen Charles Eno
I just took the time to compare a simplified version of your list from Jette
with the PRDH online. I've placed the PRDH transcription in quotes following
your entries. I think it's clear that LaGroye or some variation is far and
away the most common form, and I think, explains why Jette used that form.
De Grais appears only in Pierre Genereux's record. Jean Casse's record
actually states that he was a soldier of d'Alogny instead of LaGroye. A
couple have no mention of being a soldier in their marriage record, so that
information must have come from elsewhere.
Steve
--
Stephen Charles Eno
Researching Enaud/Henault dit Canada and allied families
Group #1
NAME MARRIED COMPANY
Bardet, Pierre dit Lapierre 1700 La Grois
"soldat de la compagnie du cinquieme Marquis de la Grois"
Casse, Jean dit St. Aubin 1707 La Grois
"soldat d'Alogny"
Dupuis, Francois dit Jolicoeur 1698 La Grois
"soldat de M. de la Groix"
Genereux, Pierre 1699 La Groye
"soldat de M. le Chevalier de Grais"
Jourdain, Denis dit Labrosse 1696 La Grois
no mention of being a soldier in the marriage record, but a "capitaine
d'une Compagnie Franche de la Marine" is a witness
Laborde, Jean (rank; sergeant) died 1692 La Groye
"sergent de la compagnie de M. le Chevalier de la Groye"
Marcheteau, Pierre dit Desnoyer 1699 La Grois
"soldat de la compagnie de M. de la Grois"
Maurice, Claude Dit La Fontaise 1699 La Grois
"soldat de la compagnie de M. le Marquis de la Groye"
witnesses include Charles Henri de la Grois, "Marquis, capitaine d'une
compagnie de la Marine" and Guillaume Roussel dit Sansoucy, "soldat de la
compagnie de M. le Marquis de la Grois"
Papineau, Samuel dit Montigny 1704 La Groye
no mention of being a soldier in the marriage record
Pipard, Rene dit Langevin died 1694 La Grois
"soldat" and nothing else
Pouget, Jean dit Grisdelin 1699 La Grois
"soldat de la compagnie de M. de la Grois"
witnesses include Charles Henri d'Alogny de la Grois, "Marquis, capitaine
d'une compagnie de la Marine" and Denis Jourdain, "soldat de la compagnie de
M. de la Grois"
Roussel, Guillaume dit Sansoucy 1700 La Grois
"soldat de la compagnie de M. de la Grois"
witnesses include Claude Maurice dit LaPhantaisie, "shoemaker"
Tailler [Taillefer], Pierre 1699 La Grois
"soldat de la compagnie de la Grois"
Witnesses include Guillaume Chevalier dit LaFleche, "soldat de la compagnie
de Louvigny"
group #2
Bombardier, Andre dit Labombarde June 12, 1706 d'Aloigny
"soldat de la compagnie d'Elogny"
Witnesses include Salomon Joseph Duversin dit La Guerre, "soldat de la
compagnie d'Elogny", Guillaume Agne dit Sancartier, "soldat de la compagnie
de DuVerrier", and Antoine Escot dit Dauphine, "soldat de la compagnie de
Sabrevois"
Chandlier, Jean dit St. Louis 1711 d'Aloigny
"soldat de la compagnie d'Alogny"
Charlery, Francois dit Lavalier 1713 d'Aloigny
"soldat de la compagnie d'Alogny"
Enouille [Dautrepe], Louis, dit Lanoix 1712 d'Aloigny
"soldat de la compagnie d'Alogni"
Loiseau, Jean dit Lozeau 1723 [1713] d'Aloigny
"ferblantier, soldat de la compagnie d'Alogny"
Vallerand, Jacques 1713 d'Aloigny
"soldat de la compagnie de Alogny"
Bertrand Desjardins
You are absolutely right: identification of individuals is based
essentially on parish records. We have made no systematic research in
notarial documents for missing individuals (too costly!). But we add
them when they are brought to our attention, with documentary proof.
We were told of the third Pierre Enaud and he is now present in our
research data base. When the site date base will be next updated, he
will be there, born "around 1689". As to how many such individuals are
"missing", it is of course impossible to know. But I am certain the
proportion is very low, as we have read many "inventaires" over the
yers and it is very rare people are found we did not know about.
Bertrand Desjardins
PRDH
BERTRAND DESJARDINS Ph. D.
Prog. de recherche en démographie historique
Centre interuniversitaire d'études démographiques
Dép. de Démographie, Université de Montréal
C.P. 6128, succ. centre-ville
Montréal (Qc), Canada H3C 3J7
Tél.: (514) 343-7613 Fax: (514) 343-2309
jim simon
Desjardins for your comments.
Stephen,
de Grais and La Groye are two different persons, although it would be easy to
mix them up due to the spelling of their names.
de Grais is: Louis Joseph Hyacinthe Legoues de Grais
He married Marguerite Legardeur on Jan. 1, 1694.
He died Dec. 9, 1702.
La Groye is: Charles Henri d'Aliogny Marquis La Groye (with variations of Groix
and Grois)
He married Genecieve Macard on Nov. 5. 1703.
He died 1714.
He was a witness for both Claude Maurice and Jean Pouget as you indicated with
your simple version of my list using info from PRDH.
In my mind your version of the list settles the question as to who Pierre's
captain was. It is definitely Louis Joseph Legoues Hyacinthe de Grais. As you
pointed out in the PRDH de Grais appears only in Pierre Genereux's record. And
since as everyone agrees that Jette took his info from PRDH, whether he did it
for consistence or it was a typo it doesn't really matter, but he appears to
have made a mistake. So I will remove Pierre from the list of soldiers of La
Groye, but I will add Salomon Joseph Duversin dit La Guerre to the list in the
2nd group .Thanks for finding him among the witnesses for Andre Bombardier.
Denis,
I will take your advise and not try and contact Jette. I would however like to
know if these findings are enough for you to note an error?
Denis Beauregard
<lady...@bluewaterarea.com> wrote in soc.genealogy.french:
>Denis,
>I will take your advise and not try and contact Jette. I would however like to
>know if these findings are enough for you to note an error?
Can you summarize some "final report" ? At this time, I am preparing
something bigger than only corrections to Jette's dictionary. I
have to focus on a TV show for which I am a consultant (some history
series) so I can't get some version ready to publish at this time.
Nonetheless, I keep track of all those corrections etc. In
particular, I have a master list of Quebec marriages before 1800
(actually, I am appending the post-1800 data I have to get a unique
database and be able to know which well-known persons are descendant
from which pioneers) and a master list of Quebec migrants in which
I have the cause of migration, including a soldier's company when it
will be complete. I found out that corrections should not be
limited to Jette, Tanguay, Drouin or PRDH (and since PRDH is alive,
it is not obvious to say this or that is correction because there
are differences i.e. corrections between the 2 printed versions
1621-1700 and 1621-1765, the 2 releases of the CD-ROM and the
Internet database which is updated each few months). I also decided
to use my master database to note corrections to repertoires and
to connect many persons in biographies, etc. You see the whole
picture ? Some very big and maybe utopical project. And in that
project, I try to keep track of corrections/improvements/differences
between many databases/sources.
I will later integrate your list and that of Stephen to know who
is who.
Stephen Charles Eno
> de Grais and La Groye are two different persons, although it would be easy to
> mix them up due to the spelling of their names.
Boy, is my face red! Thanks for straightening that out for me.
> In my mind your version of the list settles the question as to who Pierre's
> captain was. It is definitely Louis Joseph Legoues Hyacinthe de Grais. As you
> pointed out in the PRDH de Grais appears only in Pierre Genereux's record.
Believe it or not, it's not settled in my mind. I've been doing a lot of
reading of microfilmed parish registers and notary documents, and I've
learned how easy it is to confuse certain letters in the older style of
writing, especially when the original document is faded, dirty, etc. In
other words, Grais and Grois might be close to indistinguishable in old
documents.
The only thing that might resolve this is a re-examination of the original
record, or at least of the microfilmed record. I have put this on my list of
things to get when I make my trip to Montreal next month. I will obtain
copies of both the parish register and of the archives civiles as well for
comparison.
One note: I didn't say that de Grais appears in the PRDH only in Pierre
Genereux's record, but that, of the nineteen soldiers you listed (and the
only records I checked), he appears only in Pierre's record. He could very
well appear in other records that I didn't check; in fact, he most certainly
should since he married and produced children in New France.
> And
> since as everyone agrees that Jette took his info from PRDH, whether he did it
> for consistence or it was a typo it doesn't really matter, but he appears to
> have made a mistake. So I will remove Pierre from the list of soldiers of La
> Groye, but I will add Salomon Joseph Duversin dit La Guerre to the list in the
> 2nd group .Thanks for finding him among the witnesses for Andre Bombardier.
Jim, please don't put words in my mouth. I said that Jette BASED his work on
the PRDH data base. It's clear from the many differences between his work
and the original published PRDH that Jette did not simply use the
information in the data base as is and that he went back and re-examined
original sources and that he examined sources that were not included in the
construction of the original data base. Note also that the present PRDH
Online data base has been considerably updated and corrected, which is one
of its great advantages and the thing that makes it the greatest genealogy
data base currently available anywhere in the world. Well worth more than
the price, I might add.
In any case, I think think that it's neither useful nor informative to
chastise someone because their work produced almost twenty years ago, one
that was groundbreaking at the time in its scale and scope and which remains
the most accurate secondary source following the PRDH Online, doesn't agree
in some details with more recently updated and revised data.
Steve Eno
jim simon
Documents are generally very difficult to read, but this one I just received from
the archives is pretty clear, and I'm sure that PRDH scrutinized it very carefully.
Also I have never seen Charles Henry d'Aloigny Marques La Groye refereed to as
chevalier. I have only seen Louis Joseph Legoues de Grais refereed to as chevalier.
Please let me know what you find and think when you get back from Montreal.
I understood that you meant Pierre was the only one from my list to show up in the
PRDH as soldier of de Grais. I'm sure that others are mentioned as soldiers of de
Grais in the PRDH just as I have found them in Jette.
Please believe me I do not wish in any way to chastise Jette's work. Remember that
in my original query I only wanted to know what his source was, and the answers I
was getting back was more than likely from the PRDH and that La Groye and de Grais
were the same person. The fact that they are two persons there seems to be an
error somewhere. Maybe I did'nt phrase it properly, but I sure did not want to
chasties Jette.
I hope your trip to Montreal is successful. If you do have time to research Pierre,
please let me know who you think his captain was or if you are still unsure.
Jim Simon
Anchorville Mi.
Stephen Charles Eno wrote:
> Jim,
>
> > de Grais and La Groye are two different persons, although it would be easy to
> > mix them up due to the spelling of their names.
>
> Boy, is my face red! Thanks for straightening that out for me.
>
> > In my mind your version of the list settles the question as to who Pierre's
> > captain was. It is definitely Louis Joseph Legoues Hyacinthe de Grais. As you
> > pointed out in the PRDH de Grais appears only in Pierre Genereux's record.
>
> Believe it or not, it's not settled in my mind. I've been doing a lot of
> reading of microfilmed parish registers and notary documents, and I've
> learned how easy it is to confuse certain letters in the older style of
> writing, especially when the original document is faded, dirty, etc. In
> other words, Grais and Grois might be close to indistinguishable in old
> document.
Denis Beauregard
<stev...@earthlink.net> wrote in soc.genealogy.french:
>> And
>> since as everyone agrees that Jette took his info from PRDH, whether he did it
>> for consistence or it was a typo it doesn't really matter, but he appears to
>> have made a mistake. So I will remove Pierre from the list of soldiers of La
>> Groye, but I will add Salomon Joseph Duversin dit La Guerre to the list in the
>> 2nd group .Thanks for finding him among the witnesses for Andre Bombardier.
>
>Jim, please don't put words in my mouth. I said that Jette BASED his work on
>the PRDH data base. It's clear from the many differences between his work
>and the original published PRDH that Jette did not simply use the
>information in the data base as is and that he went back and re-examined
>original sources and that he examined sources that were not included in the
>construction of the original data base. Note also that the present PRDH
>Online data base has been considerably updated and corrected, which is one
>of its great advantages and the thing that makes it the greatest genealogy
>data base currently available anywhere in the world. Well worth more than
>the price, I might add.
Actually, years before using data from PRDH, Jette was making
corrections in his copy of the Tanguay's dictionary. So, basically,
his work is an updated version of Tanguay. The dictionary to be
released by PRDH this fall is based on the PRDH database. I don't
know if it will include links from Jette or not or links from Tanguay.
And the dictionary on which I am working is based on the PRDH data
but also on the Parchemin and other databases. In other words, you
can still find different data in the various works because of
different methods.
As an example, Tanguay gives Guillaume Convent as the father of
Anne Convent, wife of Philippe Amiot. And Jette gives the same
father. Now, if you search in the PRDH records or in the
Parchemin database, you won't find anywhere the name of Guillaume.
Someone found a record in France confirming the name is correct
so Tanguay probably found some record that was not a vital record
and put it in the dictionary.
Also, I recently found some marriage where Tanguay gave some
parents, Jette another set of parents and I found that the
parents were a third set of parents.
Jim Simon
I will summerize with two comments and my findings to them.
1. The dictionary by Tanquay lists Pierre as soldat des Grais and the
dictionary by Jette lists Pierre as soldat La Groye.
My findings are: These are two different Captains.
Des Grais is- Joseph louis Le Goues de Grais de Preaux, Chevalier
La Groye is- Charles Henri Aloigny La Groye, Marquis
2. Concerning Pierre's marriage record dated Sept. 28, 1699, it is possible
that one could interpert the captain as Grais or La Groye. However, my
findings are concerned with the (le chevalier de) that proceeds the captains
name.
My findings are: The (de) not La are very clear on the document.
(Chevalier) or knight is the lowest or third rank of the order of Saint
Louis.
La Groye was not given the title of knight in the order of Saint Louis until
1705, six years after the marriage of Pierre. This is per the " Dict. of
Canadian Biog."
I hope this helps you in the future, and I wish you well on your history
series.
Jim Simon
Anchorville Mich.
Denis Beauregard <spam-is-...@genealogie.com.invalid> wrote in message
news:9lrjjuk0fm589ecnh...@4ax.com...
Jim Simon
jeamyv...@outlook.com
Danielle Liard
This conversation is old, but in regards the officers of the Marine companies to New France, ie Compagnies Franches de la Marine au Canada, there is now a published book about all the officers, by Marcel Fournier as director, covering from 1683-1760.
''Les officiers des troupes de la marine au Canada, 1683-1760'', sous la direction de Marcel Fournier, 2017 Éd. Septentrion ISBN 978-2-89448-905-5 also exists in pdf ISBN 978-2-89448-275-9 and e-pub ISBN 978-2-89448-276-6
To summarize the two named captains in this conversation:
Charles Henri d'Aloigny, marquis de La Groye, he is a lieutenant in Canada in 1683, variations levels of captain between 1688 and 1691, ensign on a ship in 1692, commander in fort Frontenac in 1700 .... (pg 281)
de Graye (variant of de Grais), there are 2 brothers serving in the colony at the same time period:
Claude Charles Le Gouès de Graye et de Merville,.. captain in 1694, ...retired from the army in 1701 and returned to France
Louis Joseph Le Gouès de Graye et de Préaux, ..captain in 1694, ... and married here to Marguerite Angélique Legardeur de Tilly that year. (pg 408-9)
Neither of the de Graye brothers is listed as a Chevalier de l'Ordre de St-Louis, whereas the Marquis de La Groye was. There has been an assumption that ''chevalier''' only applied to those in that order. Not true, chevalier is a lower level of nobility also. Pierre Généreux's marriage reads ''soldat de Monsieur le Chevalier de Grais''. No mention of the ordre de St-Louis there.
Danielle Liard