Upgrading to 64bit

[Bill Burgoyne]

I am tempted to upgrade from Vista 32 bit computer to a Win 7 Home Premium
64 bit. Will I still be able to use FTM 2006 and are there any other
genealogy programs that may cause problems such as Custodian.

R.B. Burgoyne


__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 6698 (20111209) __________

The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.

http://www.eset.com

[Harrison Genealogy]

Dear R.B.

If you go for Windows "Professional" instead of "Home" then you get BOTH
the 32 bit and 64 bit CD's so you can install and run both OS at once ....
also you have the opportunity to run a virtual drive with XP on it.

Regards

Bill

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[Kurt F]

On 2011-12-10 08:21, Bill Burgoyne wrote:
> I am tempted to upgrade from Vista 32 bit computer to a Win 7 Home
> Premium 64 bit. Will I still be able to use FTM 2006 and are there any
> other genealogy programs that may cause problems such as Custodian.
>
> R.B. Burgoyne

I´m running FTM 2006 on Windows 7 Professional 64 bit.
It works well.

Kurt F

[Don Kirkman]

On Sat, 10 Dec 2011 09:59:19 -0000, "Harrison Genealogy"
<bi...@harrisongenealogy.co.uk> wrote:

>Dear R.B.
>
>If you go for Windows "Professional" instead of "Home" then you get BOTH
>the 32 bit and 64 bit CD's so you can install and run both OS at once ....
>also you have the opportunity to run a virtual drive with XP on it.

This is equally true of Windows 7 Home Premium--two CDs in the box.

>-----Original Message-----
>From: gencmp-...@rootsweb.com [mailto:gencmp-...@rootsweb.com] On
>Behalf Of Bill Burgoyne
>Sent: 10 December 2011 07:22
>To: gen...@rootsweb.com
>Subject: Upgrading to 64bit
>
>I am tempted to upgrade from Vista 32 bit computer to a Win 7 Home Premium
>64 bit. Will I still be able to use FTM 2006 and are there any other
>genealogy programs that may cause problems such as Custodian.
>
>R.B. Burgoyne

--
Don
dons...@charter.net

[pblair]

Win 7 is increasingly being loaded onto new machines, the more common
version being 64-bit. The good thing about 64-bit Win 7 is the kludge
that's been built in - WoW64 - that lets you load up your older 32-bit
stuff.

In theory, you should be able to use lots and lots more memory (if you
have lots and lots installed) but you may find you are working with
less.

The reason for this is complex, but some things run like dogs because
the OS assigns less memory than you would expect to be available. Not
all WoW64 installations work as designed. Different groups report
difficulties with drivers that don't work, particularly for outputs to
printers and things like pdf format docs.

Some models of Win 7 come with an option (2 CDs) for 32- or 64-bit
installs. You can install both at the same time, but you can't
activate both on the one key supplied - it is one or the other. But
you have 30 days to figure which one suits you best. There is a
virtual XP option if you want, but it is an awkward thing to use -
best left alone.

At the moment, there are no 64-bit family programs out there - nor, it
seems, does anyone have any plans to produce one. I'd be happy to
stand corrected on that one.

So, all you can do is suck it and see. If you stick to simple
recording of family info and don't try for the moon with extravagant
reports and charts, there should be no problems.

Paul

[singhals]

Trying for the moon? Some programs aim for Pluto or maybe
even Rigel IX.

Cheryl

[Bill Burgoyne]

Many thanks to all who responded to my question, I will go ahead and first
try 64 bit so that I can change back to 32 bit before the 30 days are up.
Regards
Bill
"Bill Burgoyne" <bil.bu...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:dpadnUBus_MTlX7T...@bt.com...

> signature database 6699 (20111210) __________

>
> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.
>
> http://www.eset.com
>
>
>

__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 6704 (20111212) __________

[Denis Beauregard]

On Sat, 10 Dec 2011 07:21:47 -0000, "Bill Burgoyne"
<bil.bu...@btinternet.com> wrote in soc.genealogy.computing:

>I am tempted to upgrade from Vista 32 bit computer to a Win 7 Home Premium
>64 bit. Will I still be able to use FTM 2006 and are there any other
>genealogy programs that may cause problems such as Custodian.

Win 7 has a directory for 32 bits softwares.

You have :


Program Files
Program Files (x86)


Recent softwares will install into the x86 directory.

By the way, I don't know if Win 7 will detect the kind of software
from the directory and many softwares can be installed anywhere. But
I heard about one program written for Win XP that needed to be adapted
to that 32/64 architecture.


Denis

--
Denis Beauregard - généalogiste émérite (FQSG)
Les Français d'Amérique du Nord - www.francogene.com/genealogie--quebec/
French in North America before 1722 - www.francogene.com/quebec--genealogy/
Sur cédérom à 1780 - On CD-ROM to 1780

[Jack]

"Bill Burgoyne" <bil.bu...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:dpadnUBus_MTlX7T...@bt.com...

FTM have some issues, some fixes/tricks exits, but no good. I think.

Try Legacy, it works fine for me. (Win7 Home Premium 64 bit.)
You can even test it free, and buy DeLuxe version later (no need to
re-installing).

DeLuxe version orders:
http://www.legacyfamilytreestore.com/SearchResults.asp?Cat=1&Click=1192

Nice charts also included.
http://www.legacycharting.com/

[John Bennett]

On Wed 14 Dec 2011, Jack <no...@INVALIDmail.com> wrote:
> "Bill Burgoyne"<bil.bu...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
> news:dpadnUBus_MTlX7T...@bt.com...
>> I am tempted to upgrade from Vista 32 bit computer to a Win 7 Home
>> Premium 64 bit. Will I still be able to use FTM 2006 and are there
>> any other genealogy programs that may cause problems such as
>> Custodian.
>>
>> R.B. Burgoyne
>>
>

> FTM have some issues, some fixes/tricks exits, but no good. I think.

Not quite true. The "fix" is very good! When using a "Virtual Win XP"
within Win7 64bit (eg the free Virtualbox: https://www.virtualbox.org/
or microsoft's own version), FTM 2006 will work perfectly.

Cheers John
--
John Bennett johndotbennettatsmartemaildotcodotuk

[Kurt F]

I just installed FTM 2006 on Windows 7 Professional, 64 bit, and it has
worked since then without any "fixes".

Kurt F

[John Prentice]

On 12/10/11 07:21, Bill Burgoyne wrote:
> I am tempted to upgrade from Vista 32 bit computer to a Win 7 Home Premium
> 64 bit. Will I still be able to use FTM 2006 and are there any other
> genealogy programs that may cause problems such as Custodian.

I'm a bit late to this thread, but I can confirm a lot of what's been said.

Windows 7 x64 (64 bit) supports x86 (32 bit) programs very well - in
fact, I haven't yet found one that doesn't work in x64. You don't need a
separate installation of the 32 bit Windows to make it work, and you
don't need to configure anything special.

Native 64 bit programs will install (typically) into C:\\Program Files\,
and 32 bit programs into C:\\Program Files(x86)\.

Bill's answer missed a couple of important points, by the way. Firstly,
you can only use "XP Mode" if your processor has hardware support for
virtualisation. Microsoft provides a tool to test this for you, and save
you the bother of digging around in the guts of the operating system.
Secondly, XP Mode doesn't come with Windows 7 as standard. You have to
download it from Microsoft's web site. XP Mode is only available for
Windows 7 Professional, Ultimate or Enterprise editions. Google for "XP
Mode" and you'll be sent in the right direction.

I haven't found any recent programs that don't work under Windows 7, but
you may need XP mode if you want to use something from a long way
pre-Vista. (The Operating System That Dare Not Speak Its Name.)

The general rule is this: if in doubt, install 64 bit Windows. Even if
you don't have enough RAM to make it necessary right now, you don't want
to have to do a complete bomb-and-reinstall when you do upgrade some
time in the future. Although there's an easy upgrade path from Vista to
Windows 7 (if the 32/64 bit type is the same and the editions are
compatible), but there is NO SUCH PATH from 32 to 64 bit Windows. You
have to nuke it from orbit, and reinstall from scratch.

John
--
Maintainer of the s.g.b FAQs, at http://www.genealogy-britain.org.uk/

Tracing London names LEE, BEDFORD, CLARK, SUTTON, KEEN, SPRING,
HARTLEY, WRIGHT, PETHERBRIDGE (Cornish), MOODY (Cornish/Devonian)

** LOOK OUT, SPAM BLOCK AHEAD! **
To email me, please remove ".invalid" from the email address

[John Bennett]

On Fri 02 Mar 2012, John Prentice

<johnp....@john-prentice.com.invalid> wrote:
> On 12/10/11 07:21, Bill Burgoyne wrote:
>
>
> I haven't found any recent programs that don't work under Windows 7,
> but you may need XP mode if you want to use something from a long
> way pre-Vista. (The Operating System That Dare Not Speak Its Name.)

FTM 2006 was one of several important programs that wouldn't work for me
when I bought a Win7 64bit laptop. WinXP compatibility mode made no
difference at all and I really didn't want to upgrade from this version
of FTM (I am still very happy with it).

I did some online research and downloaded "VirtualBox" for free from
https://www.virtualbox.org/wiki/Downloads

This, together with a licensed version of WinXP creates a "computer
within a computer" and most old software will happily run on it.

>
> The general rule is this: if in doubt, install 64 bit Windows. Even
> if you don't have enough RAM to make it necessary right now, you
> don't want to have to do a complete bomb-and-reinstall when you do
> upgrade some time in the future. Although there's an easy upgrade
> path from Vista to Windows 7 (if the 32/64 bit type is the same and
> the editions are compatible), but there is NO SUCH PATH from 32 to 64
> bit Windows. You have to nuke it from orbit, and reinstall from
> scratch.

Agree with all that! Win7 64bit is nothing to be afraid of and it works
well IMO!

[Harrison Genealogy]

All

If you buy the Windows 7 PROFESSIONAL Edition you get BOTH 32bit & 64 Bit
CD's in the box !

Regards

Bill

-----Original Message-----
From: gencmp-...@rootsweb.com [mailto:gencmp-...@rootsweb.com] On

[John Bennett]

On Fri 02 Mar 2012, Harrison Genealogy <bi...@harrisongenealogy.co.uk>
wrote:
> All
>
> If you buy the Windows 7 PROFESSIONAL Edition you get BOTH 32bit& 64

> Bit CD's in the box !
>

That's really not the point. Most computers nowadays come preloaded with
Windows 7 Home Premium edition and I would suggest most people don't
want to upgrade and pay more for the Professional version.

It makes sense to install the 64bit version, which actually runs most
32bit programs. Those that won't work properly will probably run in a
"Virtual" WinXP computer within Win7 64bit.

The only advantage of "buying" Win7 Professional" is that it includes
microsoft's own "virtual box", which I have been told includes a
licensed version of WinXP.

If you have a licensed version of WinXP then the free, open source
Oracle "Virtual box" will do the same job (maybe better, I don't know?).

[pbl...@pcug.org.au]

As an experiment, I've just loaded FTM 2005 onto the 64 bit draft version of Windows 8 (beta, or Consumer Preview) and tested it out.

There were no problems....

Paul

[Wes Groleau]

On 03-03-2012 16:21, John Bennett wrote:
> The only advantage of "buying" Win7 Professional" is that it includes
> microsoft's own "virtual box", which I have been told includes a
> licensed version of WinXP.

Really? How do I get to it? I haven't found it yet.

--
Wes Groleau

What kind of smiley is C:\ ?

[Tom Perrett]

On Sat, 03 Mar 2012 21:48:10 -0500, Wes Groleau wrote:

>On 03-03-2012 16:21, John Bennett wrote:
>> The only advantage of "buying" Win7 Professional" is that it includes
>> microsoft's own "virtual box", which I have been told includes a
>> licensed version of WinXP.
>
>Really? How do I get to it? I haven't found it yet.

It is free from Microsoft here

http://www.microsoft.com/windows/virtual-pc/download.aspx

[herman...@invalid.be.invalid]

Wes Groleau wrote:

> On 03-03-2012 16:21, John Bennett wrote:
>> The only advantage of "buying" Win7 Professional" is that it includes
>> microsoft's own "virtual box", which I have been told includes a
>> licensed version of WinXP.
>
> Really? How do I get to it? I haven't found it yet.
>

You don't have to get it, it is in there. Look in the menu for VirtualPC.

Herman Viaene

--
Veel mensen danken hun goed geweten aan hun slecht geheugen. (G. Bomans)

Lots of people owe their good conscience to their bad memory (G. Bomans)

[John Prentice]

On 03/02/12 22:46, Harrison Genealogy wrote:
> All
>
> If you buy the Windows 7 PROFESSIONAL Edition you get BOTH 32bit & 64 Bit
> CD's in the box !

If you buy a new car, you get two keys, but you can't put them both in
the ignition at the same time.

You get the two disks so that you can choose which you install. You
don't get a licence for both at the same time - if you do try to do
that, MS Licensing will bounce one or other of the installations because
more than one has been done against the same (one install) Product Key.

[Wes Groleau]

That's where I got it. What I meant was, Where in a "stock"
Windows Seven is the virtual PC containing a licensed XP ?

--
Wes Groleau

ASCII stupid question, get a stupid ANSI

[Wes Groleau]

On 03-04-2012 04:02, herman...@invalid.be.invalid wrote:
> Wes Groleau wrote:
>> On 03-03-2012 16:21, John Bennett wrote:
>>> The only advantage of "buying" Win7 Professional" is that it includes
>>> microsoft's own "virtual box", which I have been told includes a
>>> licensed version of WinXP.
>>
>> Really? How do I get to it? I haven't found it yet.
>
> You don't have to get it, it is in there. Look in the menu for VirtualPC.

I will look again, but I don't think so.

[Harrison Genealogy]

I didn't say you could install BOTH !

Just that the 2 CD's are in the Box !!

Bill



-----Original Message-----
From: gencmp-...@rootsweb.com [mailto:gencmp-...@rootsweb.com] On
Behalf Of John Prentice
Sent: 04 March 2012 19:35
To: gen...@rootsweb.com
Subject: Re: Upgrading to 64bit

[John Bennett]

On Sun 04 Mar 2012, Wes Groleau <Grolea...@FreeShell.org> wrote:
> On 03-03-2012 16:21, John Bennett wrote:
>> The only advantage of "buying" Win7 Professional" is that it
>> includes microsoft's own "virtual box", which I have been told
>> includes a licensed version of WinXP.
>
> Really? How do I get to it? I haven't found it yet.
>

http://www.microsoft.com/windows/virtual-pc/


--
John Bennett johndotbennettatsmartemaildotcodotuk

[Denis Beauregard]

On Fri, 02 Mar 2012 16:55:06 +0000, John Prentice
<johnp....@john-prentice.com.invalid> wrote in
soc.genealogy.computing:

>On 12/10/11 07:21, Bill Burgoyne wrote:
>> I am tempted to upgrade from Vista 32 bit computer to a Win 7 Home Premium
>> 64 bit. Will I still be able to use FTM 2006 and are there any other
>> genealogy programs that may cause problems such as Custodian.
>
>I'm a bit late to this thread, but I can confirm a lot of what's been said.
>
>Windows 7 x64 (64 bit) supports x86 (32 bit) programs very well - in
>fact, I haven't yet found one that doesn't work in x64. You don't need a
>separate installation of the 32 bit Windows to make it work, and you
>don't need to configure anything special.
>
>Native 64 bit programs will install (typically) into C:\\Program Files\,
>and 32 bit programs into C:\\Program Files(x86)\.

Something that could be important here !!!!!!!!!


I think some software won't let you chose the directory and thus will
install a 32-bit software in the C:\\Program Files\ directory that
expects a 64-bit. I know at least one software that add to be modified
to support this, i.e. the default and frozed installation directory
was modified...

[Wes Groleau]

On 03-04-2012 20:39, John Bennett wrote:
> On Sun 04 Mar 2012, Wes Groleau <Grolea...@FreeShell.org> wrote:
>> On 03-03-2012 16:21, John Bennett wrote:
>>> The only advantage of "buying" Win7 Professional" is that it
>>> includes microsoft's own "virtual box", which I have been told
>>> includes a licensed version of WinXP.
>>
>> Really? How do I get to it? I haven't found it yet.
>>
> http://www.microsoft.com/windows/virtual-pc/

That's a website. Windows Seven does not include that.
Though it admittedly allows you to get to it.

--
Wes Groleau

Those who make peaceful revolution impossible
will make violent revolution inevitable.
— John F. Kennedy

[herman...@invalid.be.invalid]

Well, I configured my Windows 7 Professional desktop to Classic Windows. As
a result of this, I have the classical "Start" button left down on my
desktop. I click there, choose "All Programs", scroll down in the menu list
and at the bottom there is Windows Virtual PC. You have to define one
instance and the default one behaves exactly like Windows XP.

Strictly speaking, it is not an extra WindowsXP licence, but it behaves like
one. In my case it allows me to run a few old programs (one of them I
suspect is still 16-bit).

And all that of course, assuming that MS has not configured the Win7
Professional licence wherever you are, than I have it here in Belgium.

[Denis Beauregard]

On Mon, 05 Mar 2012 14:03:45 +0100, herman...@invalid.be.invalid
wrote in soc.genealogy.computing:

>Strictly speaking, it is not an extra WindowsXP licence, but it behaves like
>one. In my case it allows me to run a few old programs (one of them I
>suspect is still 16-bit).

Think there is something in the code saying "don't run on version
higher than ...". I run Forte Agent on Windows 7. FA is version 1.91
dated 2002 and I ran it on Windows 98 too. So, likely 16-bit.

When I purchased my new Windows 7 computer one year ago, I could run
MS Office 97 but when I installed FA, then MSO stops running (perhaps
I installed 1st FA, and after MSO). So I decided to keep the more
usefull for me (FA which is an email/newsgroup client) and to install
OOO instead of MSO (I have now libreoffice). FA allowed me to search
and read my very old emails where I have some genealogical data to
add to my database while I can use OOO to read my MSO files...

[Wes Groleau]

On 03-05-2012 08:03, herman...@invalid.be.invalid wrote:
> Well, I configured my Windows 7 Professional desktop to Classic Windows. As
> a result of this, I have the classical "Start" button left down on my
> desktop. I click there, choose "All Programs", scroll down in the menu list
> and at the bottom there is Windows Virtual PC. You have to define one
> instance and the default one behaves exactly like Windows XP.

Well, assuming it's there, that explains why I didn't find it.

Interesting concept: Do this to make your machine look like XP.

Then, if you want it to ACT like XP, do something else.

--
Wes Groleau

“Grant me the serenity to accept those I cannot change;
the courage to change the one I can;
and the wisdom to know it's me.”
— unknown

[Don Kirkman]

On Mon, 05 Mar 2012 15:34:12 -0500, Denis Beauregard
<denis.b-at-f...@fr.invalid> wrote:

>On Mon, 05 Mar 2012 14:03:45 +0100, herman...@invalid.be.invalid
>wrote in soc.genealogy.computing:
>
>>Strictly speaking, it is not an extra WindowsXP licence, but it behaves like
>>one. In my case it allows me to run a few old programs (one of them I
>>suspect is still 16-bit).
>
>Think there is something in the code saying "don't run on version
>higher than ...". I run Forte Agent on Windows 7. FA is version 1.91
>dated 2002 and I ran it on Windows 98 too. So, likely 16-bit.
>
>When I purchased my new Windows 7 computer one year ago, I could run
>MS Office 97 but when I installed FA, then MSO stops running (perhaps
>I installed 1st FA, and after MSO). So I decided to keep the more
>usefull for me (FA which is an email/newsgroup client) and to install
>OOO instead of MSO (I have now libreoffice). FA allowed me to search
>and read my very old emails where I have some genealogical data to
>add to my database while I can use OOO to read my MSO files...

Denis, I may be carrying coals, but in case you are wondering, your
headers say your Agent is 32-bit; there never was a (at least not a
public) 16-bit version.
--
Don
dons...@charter.net

[Ye Old One]

Since the first versions ran on Windows 3.11 I think you are
incorrect.

Oh, and talking of 16 bit software, I still use Lotus AmiPro and that
works on Windows 7.

--
Bob.

[Denis Beauregard]

On Mon, 05 Mar 2012 23:02:06 -0800, Don Kirkman

<dons...@charter.net> wrote in soc.genealogy.computing:

>Denis, I may be carrying coals, but in case you are wondering, your
>headers say your Agent is 32-bit; there never was a (at least not a
>public) 16-bit version.

Indeed, the "about" box shows : version 1.91/32.564.

Anyway, this software is running in Windows 98 and Windows 7 as is.
Perhaps, the magic is that it is not using the register so it can
run on a wider list of OS.

[John Prentice]

On 03/03/12 21:21, John Bennett wrote:
> On Fri 02 Mar 2012, Harrison Genealogy <bi...@harrisongenealogy.co.uk>
> wrote:
>> All
>>
>> If you buy the Windows 7 PROFESSIONAL Edition you get BOTH 32bit& 64
>> Bit CD's in the box !
>>
> That's really not the point. Most computers nowadays come preloaded with
> Windows 7 Home Premium edition and I would suggest most people don't
> want to upgrade and pay more for the Professional version.
>
> It makes sense to install the 64bit version, which actually runs most
> 32bit programs. Those that won't work properly will probably run in a
> "Virtual" WinXP computer within Win7 64bit.
>
> The only advantage of "buying" Win7 Professional" is that it includes
> microsoft's own "virtual box", which I have been told includes a
> licensed version of WinXP.

As I stated earlier, it buys you the -right- to use XP Mode - if you
have a processor that can support it. You still have to download MS's
Virtual PC and the licensed XP copy from the MS web site, and these are
not small downloads.

You mentioned VirtualBox, and that's a far better option. It doesn't
need hardware extensions at all, but you do need (as you said) to have a
licensed copy of XP to hand, because that's not included.

[John Prentice]

On 03/05/12 01:44, Denis Beauregard wrote:
> I think some software won't let you chose the directory and thus will
> install a 32-bit software in the C:\\Program Files\ directory that
> expects a 64-bit. I know at least one software that add to be modified
> to support this, i.e. the default and frozed installation directory
> was modified.

Naughty developers must have hard-coded a directory name or home-brewed
an installer instead of using a well-established installer and/or doing
what Microsoft told them!

[John Prentice]

On 03/03/12 22:08, pbl...@pcug.org.au wrote:
> As an experiment, I've just loaded FTM 2005 onto the 64 bit draft version of Windows 8 (beta, or Consumer Preview) and tested it out.
>
> There were no problems....

Lucky you! I'm trying to get W8CP to install into a virtual machine
(VirtualBox 4.1.8 under Debian 64-bit if anyone's interested), and it's
just not having it. It gets stalled at the 'dropping dots' stage,
forever. That doesn't stop it using twice as much chip RAM as it's
supposed to, though. I wouldn't mind, but it's a configuration Microsoft
explicitly supports.