Pedigree Collapse and Reports

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Joe Makowiec

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Aug 17, 2020, 11:05:56 AM8/17/20
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Is there some genealogy software out there which will output a report
listing all the paths between Person X and Person Y? For example, I just
went through and was able to trace two paths to one of my ancestors. In
one, I'm the 9th great grandchild; in the other, I'm the 10th. My old go-
to, The Master Genealogist (TMG) would do this, but the report has gotten
broken in recent years. I also have Roots Magic 7 (RM7), but that seems
to only do the shortest path. I'd appreciate any other suggestions.

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Joe Makowiec
http://makowiec.org/
Email: http://makowiec.org/contact/?Joe
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john

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Aug 17, 2020, 1:53:49 PM8/17/20
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On 17/08/2020 17:05, Joe Makowiec wrote:
> Is there some genealogy software out there which will output a
> report listing all the paths between Person X and Person Y? For
> example, I just went through and was able to trace two paths to one
> of my ancestors. In one, I'm the 9th great grandchild; in the other,
> I'm the 10th. My old go- to, The Master Genealogist (TMG) would do
> this, but the report has gotten broken in recent years. I also have
> Roots Magic 7 (RM7), but that seems to only do the shortest path. I'd
> appreciate any other suggestions.
>

Although the TMG Report | Relationship Chart option seems to fail if
there is more than one path and only give the shortest path, my v9.05
TMG Tools | Relationship Calculator still gives multiple relationships.

In Tools | Relationship Calculator you can select the
Relationships and then select Progenitors. So possibly you could
determine the full relationship in a series of steps? Calculate the
intermediate paths from you to the progenitors and from the progenitors
to your target ancestor using the Relationship Chart to generate the
intermediate steps relationship charts?
(X->J->Y rather than X->Y)

Richard Damon

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Aug 17, 2020, 2:17:25 PM8/17/20
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IF is a pure descent issue, you could also build a focus group of people
who are descendant of the ancestor and also ancestors of the descendant
with a filter, and then make a temporary dataset of that group to run a
report.

Joe Makowiec

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Aug 17, 2020, 3:02:18 PM8/17/20
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On 17 Aug 2020 in soc.genealogy.computing, Richard Damon wrote:

> On 8/17/20 1:53 PM, john wrote:
>>
>> On 17/08/2020 17:05, Joe Makowiec wrote:
>>> Is there some genealogy software out there which will output a
>>> report listing all the paths between Person X and Person Y? For
>>
>> In Tools | Relationship Calculator you can select the
>> Relationships and then select Progenitors. So possibly you could
>> determine the full relationship in a series of steps? Calculate the
>> intermediate paths from you to the progenitors and from the
>> progenitors to your target ancestor using the Relationship Chart to
>> generate the intermediate steps relationship charts?
>>  (X->J->Y rather than X->Y)
>
> IF is a pure descent issue, you could also build a focus group of
> people who are descendant of the ancestor and also ancestors of the
> descendant with a filter, and then make a temporary dataset of that
> group to run a report.

Thanks, john and Richard.

I think that's ultimately going to be the answer. I had so hoped that
there would be at least a semi-automated way to do it. And it gets even
messier when one starts looking at cousin relationships.

Charlie Hoffpauir

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Aug 17, 2020, 7:59:12 PM8/17/20
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On Mon, 17 Aug 2020 19:02:17 -0000 (UTC), Joe Makowiec
<mako...@invalid.invalid> wrote:

>On 17 Aug 2020 in soc.genealogy.computing, Richard Damon wrote:
>
>> On 8/17/20 1:53 PM, john wrote:
>>>
>>> On 17/08/2020 17:05, Joe Makowiec wrote:
>>>> Is there some genealogy software out there which will output a
>>>> report listing all the paths between Person X and Person Y? For
<snipped>
>I think that's ultimately going to be the answer. I had so hoped that
>there would be at least a semi-automated way to do it. And it gets even
>messier when one starts looking at cousin relationships.

Joe,
Actually, RM does a fairly decent job for cousin relationships. Ask
for the relationship calculator for two cousins, and you get a list of
the various relationships, plus the common ancestor(s) for each
relationship. I often use this report to calculate the Coefficient of
Relationship fo a cousin and myself when we have multiple ancestors in
common. Of course, I have to do the calculation by hand, whereas RM
could do it easily if they would only add that feature.

Joe Makowiec

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Aug 18, 2020, 7:24:34 AM8/18/20
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On 17 Aug 2020 in soc.genealogy.computing, Charlie Hoffpauir wrote:

> Actually, RM does a fairly decent job for cousin relationships. Ask
> for the relationship calculator for two cousins, and you get a list
> of the various relationships, plus the common ancestor(s) for each
> relationship. I often use this report to calculate the Coefficient
> of Relationship fo a cousin and myself when we have multiple
> ancestors in common. Of course, I have to do the calculation by
> hand, whereas RM could do it easily if they would only add that
> feature.

Thanks, Charlie.

The issue then becomes finding the path to the common ancestors. In
the relationship chart, Roots Magic 7 (RM) only does the shortest
route. I just tried a couple of cases - me to my 9th and 10th g
grandfather; me to someone with whom I have at least 7 cousin
relationships, the shortest of which is 6th cousin thrice removed.
That was the only path RM returned on a chart. Both RM and The Master
Genealogist (TMG) identified all 7 relationships in the relationship
calculator. TMG returns all 7 paths in a chart, but the display of the
chart is borked.

Also noted: the relationship calculator missed the 10th g grandfather
relationship. One path goes through a great grandmother; the other,
longer path goes through her husband, my great grandfather. So while
RM works well for simple cases, it misses some and doesn't offer a way
to trace more than one path.

Charlie Hoffpauir

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Aug 18, 2020, 11:57:09 AM8/18/20
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On Tue, 18 Aug 2020 11:24:32 -0000 (UTC), Joe Makowiec
<mako...@invalid.invalid> wrote:

>The issue then becomes finding the path to the common ancestors. In
>the relationship chart, Roots Magic 7 (RM) only does the shortest
>route. I just tried a couple of cases - me to my 9th and 10th g
>grandfather; me to someone with whom I have at least 7 cousin
>relationships, the shortest of which is 6th cousin thrice removed.
>That was the only path RM returned on a chart.

Yes, RMs charting shows only one path, presumably the shortest.I use
the Relationship Calculator results to calculate the Coefficient of
Relationship, because the value of that coefficient is directly
related to the theoretical Autosomal DNA results for the two
individuals, and easily explains Autosomal DNA values much higher than
would ordinarily be expected for the relationship shown by the
"shortest path". Here's the results for me and a distant cousin:


Thomas Weldon Hoffpauir and Charles Richard "Charlie" Hoffpauir

1. Fourth cousin once removed (common ancestor: Thomas Hoffpauir &
Marie Charlotte Périllard)
2. Fourth cousin (common ancestor: Thomas Hoffpauir & Marie Charlotte
Périllard)
3. Fourth cousin once removed (common ancestor: Edward Forman II &
Nancy Anna Perry)
4. Fourth cousin once removed (common ancestor: George Faulk &
Adelaide Hargrave)
5. Fourth cousin twice removed (common ancestor: John Perry & Penelope
Perry)
6. Fourth cousin twice removed (common ancestor: Luke Faulk & Celeste
Reples)
7. Fourth cousin (common ancestor: Joseph Ephraim Forman & Mary
Elizabeth Brown)
8. Fourth cousin (common ancestor: Pierre Stutes & Amelia Hoffpauir)
9. Fifth cousin (common ancestor: Edward Forman)
10. Fifth cousin once removed (common ancestor: Edward Forman)
11. Fourth cousin once removed (common ancestor: Thomas Hoffpauir &
Marie Charlotte Périllard)

Notice that the common ancestor pair of Thomas and Marie Charlotte
appear three times in the results, indicating three different ways
they are Thomas' and my common ancestors.

The obvious limitation of this kind of calculation is that for
accuracy, I need to have "all" of both Thomas Weldon and my ancestors
in my database.... so at best my calculation produces an
approximation.

Charlie Hoffpauir

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Aug 18, 2020, 12:47:34 PM8/18/20
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I'd buy any genealogy program that would create a chart of this
relationship.... until then I have to do it by hand. Here's a link to
what it looks like on my dropbox:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/y2zt6hc381949jm/Relationship%20Chart.pdf?dl=0

Steve Hayes

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Aug 18, 2020, 9:28:53 PM8/18/20
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On Tue, 18 Aug 2020 11:24:32 -0000 (UTC), Joe Makowiec
<mako...@invalid.invalid> wrote:

>On 17 Aug 2020 in soc.genealogy.computing, Charlie Hoffpauir wrote:
>The issue then becomes finding the path to the common ancestors. In
>the relationship chart, Roots Magic 7 (RM) only does the shortest
>route. I just tried a couple of cases - me to my 9th and 10th g
>grandfather; me to someone with whom I have at least 7 cousin
>relationships, the shortest of which is 6th cousin thrice removed.
>That was the only path RM returned on a chart. Both RM and The Master
>Genealogist (TMG) identified all 7 relationships in the relationship
>calculator. TMG returns all 7 paths in a chart, but the display of the
>chart is borked.

Since RM uses SQLite, perhaps someone could write a supplementary
program to support just that function?


--
Steve Hayes
Web: http://hayesgreene.wordpress.com/
http://hayesgreene.blogspot.com
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/afgen/

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