Jumping ship from Cumberland Family Tree
John Evans (fhmlist)
Now that the good ship CFT (Cumberland Family Tree) seems to be heading for
the rocks, I need some advice about shifting my data. Has any list member
made the jump from CFT, and if so, where to?
I need a program that handles data sourcing and events well - I'm not too
interested in drawing trees, in reports, or in 'books'. When using CFT I
found that I needed to define another dozen events in addition to the basic
GEDCOM set and the extra ones provided by CFT. Now that I've
spring-cleaned my data and exported a reasonable (according to my text
editor) GEDCOM 5.5 from CFT, I'm ready to try the alternatives.
I've already tried importing the GEDCOM to Legacy 7, but found that the
*basic* version of Legacy doesn't allow me to define new events to
accomodate the imported data. So I would need to spend 30 dollars just to
see whether the full program really suits me. Can the list advise whether
this is also the situation with trial versions of the other mainstream
products - TMG, FH, AQ, RootsMagic, etc, or are there any trial versions
available that do allow event definition?
Regards, John
Ian Goddard
You could look at Gramps which allows you to define new events. I'm
afraid it doesn't do a trial version - you just download it and use it ;)
The native platform is Linux. However
http://gramps-project.org/wiki/index.php?title=GRAMPS_and_Windows
discusses using it under Windows.
The main Gramps Wiki describes a rather hair shirt method of installing
but there's a Windows installer at
http://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/gramps4win/index.php?title=Main_Page
I've taken a quick look at this under W2K and it seemed straightforward
to install and stable when installed but I'm not using that version
regularly as I don't use Windows regularly.
You could also download & burn a live CD image from
http://gramps-project.org/wiki/index.php?title=Linux_Genealogy_CD to try
it.
--
Ian
The Hotmail address is my spam-bin. Real mail address is igoddard
at nildram co uk
Trevor Rix
> versions of the other mainstream products - TMG, FH, AQ, RootsMagic,
> etc, or are there any trial versions available that do allow event
> definition?
The Family Historian trial is the full program and allows you to create
event definitions. Right click a person > Add Event > New Event. The new
event then joins the list of events. You can also group event definitions
into fact sets for subsequent import/export. You can download and import
fact sets that others have already created from the FH Users Group
website.
Trevor Rix
the_ver...@comcast.net
wrote:
The Master Genealogist has a 30 day free trial download that is not
crippled in any way.
It is the full program-just time limited.
Try it and see- I think you'll like it.
Patrick Texier
> Now that the good ship CFT (Cumberland Family Tree) seems to be heading for
> the rocks, I need some advice about shifting my data. Has any list member
> made the jump from CFT, and if so, where to?
I was using CFTW from 1995 to 2007. After my database was too big (about
60,000 individuals) for the slow database manager used by CTFW: Clarion.
I'm using now LifeLines a full gedcom Open Source software
<http://lifelines.sourceforce.net>, available for Windows and Linux (I
failed to use CTFW on Linux with Wine). I can use now all gecdom 5.5
tags not available in CFTW like CAUS, ALIA, ASSO and user tags starting
with an _.
If you want a full-gedcom GUI program, you cant try GenJ
<http://genj.sourceforge.net> an Java Open Source software.
--
Patrick Texier
vim:syntax=mail:ai:ts=4:et:tw=72
Ron Lankshear in Sydney NSW
> I've already tried importing the GEDCOM to Legacy 7, but found that the
> *basic* version of Legacy doesn't allow me to define new events to
> accomodate the imported data. So I would need to spend 30 dollars just to
> see whether the full program really suits me. Can the list advise whether
> this is also the situation with trial versions of the other mainstream
> products - TMG, FH, AQ, RootsMagic, etc, or are there any trial versions
> available that do allow event definition?
Rootsmagic now has a Free version called Essentials
And I imported a Legacy file into it
So perhaps it will handle your custom built gedcom
Ron Lankshear -Sydney NSW (from London-Shepherds
Bush/Chiswick)
try my links
http://freepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~lankshear/
singhals
> Hi List
>
> Now that the good ship CFT (Cumberland Family Tree) seems to be heading for
> the rocks, I need some advice about shifting my data. Has any list member
> made the jump from CFT, and if so, where to?
>
> I need a program that handles data sourcing and events well - I'm not too
> interested in drawing trees, in reports, or in 'books'. When using CFT I
> found that I needed to define another dozen events in addition to the basic
> GEDCOM set and the extra ones provided by CFT. Now that I've
> spring-cleaned my data and exported a reasonable (according to my text
> editor) GEDCOM 5.5 from CFT, I'm ready to try the alternatives.
>
> I've already tried importing the GEDCOM to Legacy 7, but found that the
> *basic* version of Legacy doesn't allow me to define new events to
> accomodate the imported data. So I would need to spend 30 dollars just to
> see whether the full program really suits me. Can the list advise whether
> this is also the situation with trial versions of the other mainstream
> products - TMG, FH, AQ, RootsMagic, etc, or are there any trial versions
> available that do allow event definition?
Wouldn't you have to define the events in the new program
BEFORE you try to import anything? I believe PAF refers to
this as a template
Assuming of course that what you mean by "defining events"
and what I think you mean are the same thing. If not, press
delete now.
Cheryl
Nigel Bufton
"singhals" <sing...@erols.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.590.12594...@rootsweb.com...
> John Evans (fhmlist) wrote:
>> <snip>
>> I've already tried importing the GEDCOM to Legacy 7, but found that the
>> *basic* version of Legacy doesn't allow me to define new events to
>> accomodate the imported data. So I would need to spend 30 dollars just
>> to
>> see whether the full program really suits me. Can the list advise whether
>> this is also the situation with trial versions of the other mainstream
>> products - TMG, FH, AQ, RootsMagic, etc, or are there any trial versions
>> available that do allow event definition?
>
> Wouldn't you have to define the events in the new program BEFORE you try
> to import anything? I believe PAF refers to this as a template
>
> Assuming of course that what you mean by "defining events" and what I
> think you mean are the same thing. If not, press delete now.
>
> Cheryl
I would strongly advise against going with any program that locks you in to
a proprietary events format.
The GEDCOM standard accommodates events that are beyond the prescribed
standard events list via the use of the EVEN tag. You can have as many of
these that are required.
For example, if you created a new "Separation" event for married partners in
any program worth its salt, it would be exported as:
1 EVEN
2 TYPE Separation
2 DATE ....
2 PLAC ....
How an individual program might provide the ability to define new events is
immaterial. The important fact is that they export them as EVEN tags so
that all other standards-compliant programs can import them appropriately.
Any other style of export, particularly creating special non-standard tags,
will severely limit your future ability to move the data between programs.
Nigel
(www.tcgr.bufton.org)
Ron Lankshear in Sydney NSW
> I've already tried importing the GEDCOM to Legacy 7, but found that the
> *basic* version of Legacy doesn't allow me to define new events to
> accomodate the imported data. So I would need to spend 30 dollars just to
> see whether the full program really suits me. Can the list advise whether
> this is also the situation with trial versions of the other mainstream
> products - TMG, FH, AQ, RootsMagic, etc, or are there any trial versions
> available that do allow event definition?
Rootsmagic now has a Free version called Essentials
singhals
Y'know, Nigel, my first thought on reading this was:
Explain to me again what sort of magic allows a program to
export information it doesn't store?
After the 5th or 6th reading, and breathing in a different
place each time, it occurs to me that you're really saying
IF is more important than HOW.
Still, I question the utility value of creating db-wide
event tags anytime a deviation from "norm" or "bog standard"
arises. F'instance, in my personal family (the "ancestors
and sibs of" not the hugely extended "descendants of" one)
the vast majority of entries are farmers or farm-wives; I
have a handful with PhDs or MDs. Putting in a special field
for those dozen onto the other couple thousand will (a)
clutter up the display and printouts and (b) use storage
space which will (c) slow down the displays. I can dump the
Ph.D. or MD as a suffix after the name much easier or I can
put it in the NOTES.
Cheryl
John Evans (fhmlist)
Thanks to Cheryl, Ian, Patrick, Ron, Trevor, & The Verminator for the
advice.
I've downloaded trial versions of all the programmes you recommended
- testing them should keep me away from the mince pies until the new
year ;<)
Just for the record, these were:-
Ancestral Quest 12.1 - 60 day trial - fully functional? - W7?
Family Historian 4.0.2 - 30 day trial - fully functional. - W7
Legacy 7.0 Standard - unlimited use - restricted functionality - W7
RootsMagic 4 - unlimited use - "Essentials" (reduced functionality) - W7
TMG 7.04.000 UK Gold - 30 day trial - fully functional - W7?
Most of the websites for the above claim compatibility with Windows 7,
except for Ancestral Quest & TMG, which don't seem to mention it (not
that I'm planning to switch from XP anytime soon, but it makes sense
to future-proof, when possible)
The suggestions for Gramps, Lifelines, & GenJ look as though they would
take a bit more investigating - I'll come back to them if one of the above
trial apps. doesn't fit the bill.
>> I've already tried importing the GEDCOM to Legacy 7, but found that the
>> *basic* version of Legacy doesn't allow me to define new events to
>> accommodate the imported data. So I would need to spend 30 dollars
>> just to see whether the full program really suits me. Can the list advise
>> whether this is also the situation with trial versions of the other
>> mainstream
>> products - TMG, FH, AQ, RootsMagic, etc, or are there any trial versions
>> available that do allow event definition?
>
>
> Wouldn't you have to define the events in the new program
> BEFORE you try to import anything? I believe PAF refers to
> this as a template
>
> Assuming of course that what you mean by "defining events"
> and what I think you mean are the same thing. If not, press
> delete now.
>
> Cheryl
I think we mean the same thing by defining events. Actually Legacy handles
the importation rather well. It does a first pass through the GEDCOM to
identify events & dates it can't understand, then allows you to define an
appropriate event or specify a Legacy equivalent for the unknown ones before
the detailed importation starts. I have no doubt this works well with the
full version of the program, but unfortunately the crippled trial version
doesn't allow event definition - it just imports the GEDCOM line into the
individual's records.
Nigel,
The GEDCOM file generated by CFT does specify 'non-standard' events
in the way you suggest, e.g.:-
1 EVEN
2 TYPE TRAD: Trade Directory
2 DATE 1895
2 PLAC 100 Coedpenmaen Road, Pontypridd, Glamorganshire, Wales
2 NOTE Description: "Edward Jones, painter & paperhanger"
Cheryl said,
> Putting in a special field for those dozen onto the other couple
> thousand will (a) clutter up the display and printouts and
> (b) use storage space which will (c) slow down the displays.
Just because new events are introduced into the master event definition
list, for *optional* use with selected individuals, it doesn't imply that
a mandatory field has to be created in every individual's timeline for
that event. So extra storage space, etc, isn't required for a few thousand
people.
> I can dump the Ph.D. or MD as a suffix after the name much easier
> or I can put it in the NOTES.
You can indeed, but a new event for 'further education' would make the
achievement of a degree stand out better in an individual's timeline.
Regards, John
J. Hugh Sullivan
<fhm...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>Hi List
>
>Thanks to Cheryl, Ian, Patrick, Ron, Trevor, & The Verminator for the
>advice.
>
>I've downloaded trial versions of all the programmes you recommended
>- testing them should keep me away from the mince pies until the new
>year ;<)
>
>Just for the record, these were:-
>
> Ancestral Quest 12.1 - 60 day trial - fully functional? - W7?
>
> Family Historian 4.0.2 - 30 day trial - fully functional. - W7
>
> Legacy 7.0 Standard - unlimited use - restricted functionality - W7
>
> RootsMagic 4 - unlimited use - "Essentials" (reduced functionality) - W7
>
> TMG 7.04.000 UK Gold - 30 day trial - fully functional - W7?
>
>Most of the websites for the above claim compatibility with Windows 7,
>except for Ancestral Quest & TMG, which don't seem to mention it (not
>that I'm planning to switch from XP anytime soon, but it makes sense
>to future-proof, when possible)
>
>The suggestions for Gramps, Lifelines, & GenJ look as though they would
>take a bit more investigating - I'll come back to them if one of the above
>trial apps. doesn't fit the bill.
I have found that every program that worked for me on XP also works on
Win 7 - that includes 3 genealogy programs.
Hugh
singhals
[snip]
> Cheryl said,
>
>
>>Putting in a special field for those dozen onto the other couple
>>thousand will (a) clutter up the display and printouts and
>>(b) use storage space which will (c) slow down the displays.
>
>
> Just because new events are introduced into the master event definition
> list, for *optional* use with selected individuals, it doesn't imply that
> a mandatory field has to be created in every individual's timeline for
> that event. So extra storage space, etc, isn't required for a few thousand
> people.
>
>
If any of the named programs allows one to select events in
that fashion, someone needs to tell me which option, because
I've not found it. I'd be HAPPY to be wrong again.
>>I can dump the Ph.D. or MD as a suffix after the name much easier
>>or I can put it in the NOTES.
>
>
> You can indeed, but a new event for 'further education' would make the
> achievement of a degree stand out better in an individual's timeline.
Doing 'further education' however, presupposes there is a
floor to 'education' ... and that everyone who reads the
print-out knows what floor I've used (6th grade, 8th, 12th,
10 + 2, Bachelor's, trade certificate...). Those are facts
not in evidence. (g)
Cheryl
John Evans (fhmlist)
> Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2009 14:52:05 -0500
> From: singhals <sing...@erols.com>
> Subject: Re: Jumping ship from Cumberland Family Tree
> To: gen...@rootsweb.com
>
> John Evans (fhmlist) wrote:
> <snip>
>
>> Cheryl said,
>>
>>>Putting in a special field for those dozen onto the other couple
>>>thousand will (a) clutter up the display and printouts and
>>>(b) use storage space which will (c) slow down the displays.
>>
>> Just because new events are introduced into the master event definition
>> list, for *optional* use with selected individuals, it doesn't imply that
>> a mandatory field has to be created in every individual's timeline for
>> that event. So extra storage space, etc, isn't required for a few
>> thousand
>> people.
>
> If any of the named programs allows one to select events in
> that fashion, someone needs to tell me which option, because
> I've not found it. I'd be HAPPY to be wrong again.
What you seem to be suggesting is that every time I add an individual
to a database I need to reserve space for every one of the events in
the master event list for him/her. Admittedly my programming career
didn't include databases, but I don't think I would have been allowed
near a keyboard if my program design had been as bad as that!
If I can find time I'll add an event to some of the apps mentioned and
see how much the storage requirement increases.
>>>I can dump the Ph.D. or MD as a suffix after the name much easier
>>>or I can put it in the NOTES.
>>
>> You can indeed, but a new event for 'further education' would
>> make the achievement of a degree stand out better in an individual's
>> timeline.
>
> Doing 'further education' however, presupposes there is a
> floor to 'education' ... and that everyone who reads the
> print-out knows what floor I've used (6th grade, 8th, 12th,
> 10 + 2, Bachelor's, trade certificate...). Those are facts
> not in evidence. (g)
>
> Cheryl
As it happens there is a standard GEDCOM tag called: GRAD,
which produces a sentence (in CFT) such as:
%N graduated %D p{from} %P m{with a degree in} %M
[where N= Person, D=Date, P=Place, M=Miscellaneous data ]
- I assume it's a similar syntax in most other gene. apps.
I was originally suggesting an event with a slightly wider application
to denote any educational achievment in excess of, or different
from, what was common to his/her fellow citizens at that time.
After all, we want our individual's timelines to show the interesting
aspects of their lives, don't we - without reading the supporting
notes - otherwise they would all be a simple succession of
born/censuses/married/censuses/died.
--
Regards, John
singhals
> John Evans (fhmlist) wrote:
> [snip]
>
>
>>Cheryl said,
>>
>>
>>
>>>Putting in a special field for those dozen onto the other couple
>>>thousand will (a) clutter up the display and printouts and
>>>(b) use storage space which will (c) slow down the displays.
>>
>>
>>Just because new events are introduced into the master event definition
>>list, for *optional* use with selected individuals, it doesn't imply that
>>a mandatory field has to be created in every individual's timeline for
>>that event. So extra storage space, etc, isn't required for a few thousand
>>people.
>>
>>
>
>
> If any of the named programs allows one to select events in
> that fashion, someone needs to tell me which option, because
> I've not found it. I'd be HAPPY to be wrong again.
OK, I found it, I think, in Legacy. The base list isn't
always available, but when it is, it does sometimes let me
do that.
>>>I can dump the Ph.D. or MD as a suffix after the name much easier
>>>or I can put it in the NOTES.
>>
>>
>>You can indeed, but a new event for 'further education' would make the
>>achievement of a degree stand out better in an individual's timeline.
>
>
> Doing 'further education' however, presupposes there is a
> floor to 'education' ... and that everyone who reads the
> print-out knows what floor I've used (6th grade, 8th, 12th,
> 10 + 2, Bachelor's, trade certificate...). Those are facts
> not in evidence. (g)
(Because in one country I deal with, "high school"
officially ends at 10th grade, so if you want 12 years, it's
10+2 curriculum)
Cheryl
singhals
>>Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2009 14:52:05 -0500
>>From: singhals <sing...@erols.com>
>>Subject: Re: Jumping ship from Cumberland Family Tree
>>To: gen...@rootsweb.com
>>
>>John Evans (fhmlist) wrote:
>> <snip>
>>
>>>Cheryl said,
>>>
>>>
>>>>Putting in a special field for those dozen onto the other couple
>>>>thousand will (a) clutter up the display and printouts and
>>>>(b) use storage space which will (c) slow down the displays.
>>>
>>>Just because new events are introduced into the master event definition
>>>list, for *optional* use with selected individuals, it doesn't imply that
>>>a mandatory field has to be created in every individual's timeline for
>>>that event. So extra storage space, etc, isn't required for a few
>>>thousand
>>>people.
>>
>>If any of the named programs allows one to select events in
>>that fashion, someone needs to tell me which option, because
>>I've not found it. I'd be HAPPY to be wrong again.
>
>
> What you seem to be suggesting is that every time I add an individual
> to a database I need to reserve space for every one of the events in
> the master event list for him/her. Admittedly my programming career
> didn't include databases, but I don't think I would have been allowed
> near a keyboard if my program design had been as bad as that!
> If I can find time I'll add an event to some of the apps mentioned and
> see how much the storage requirement increases.
>
No, I'm not suggesting you /need/ to; I'm suggesting that
most programs DO.
>
>>>>I can dump the Ph.D. or MD as a suffix after the name much easier
>>>>or I can put it in the NOTES.
>>>
>>>You can indeed, but a new event for 'further education' would
>>>make the achievement of a degree stand out better in an individual's
>>>timeline.
>>
>>Doing 'further education' however, presupposes there is a
>>floor to 'education' ... and that everyone who reads the
>>print-out knows what floor I've used (6th grade, 8th, 12th,
>>10 + 2, Bachelor's, trade certificate...). Those are facts
>>not in evidence. (g)
>>
>>Cheryl
>
>
> As it happens there is a standard GEDCOM tag called: GRAD,
> which produces a sentence (in CFT) such as:
>
> %N graduated %D p{from} %P m{with a degree in} %M
>
> [where N= Person, D=Date, P=Place, M=Miscellaneous data ]
> - I assume it's a similar syntax in most other gene. apps.
>
> I was originally suggesting an event with a slightly wider application
> to denote any educational achievment in excess of, or different
> from, what was common to his/her fellow citizens at that time.
Again, fact not yet in evidence: that any of us know what
was common in every area of the world in all eras.
F'instance, at one time, apparently, a 6th grade education
was standard in the US; then it went to 8th grade, then to
12. Now, statistically, a Bachelor's seems to be the
standard. Among my _acquaintance_, a Doctorate is standard,
but not as I said in my family.
To identify those who rose above average, one first has to
figure out what Average was (and Average is a variable anyway).
>
> After all, we want our individual's timelines to show the interesting
> aspects of their lives, don't we - without reading the supporting
> notes - otherwise they would all be a simple succession of
I can't say that I'm all that excited by a time-line either.
Unless of course what you mean by time-line and what I
think of when I hear/see the words are different beasts.
Personally, I prefer the narrative/prose/book format that
picks up the notes I considered relevent or interesting
enough to include. Yes, I've constructed time-lines for
this reason or that, but I'm always looking for something
specific (f'instance, X left Germany in 1807 ... what was
going on in Germany in 1807; or y arrived in the Colonies in
1716 ... does the elapsed-time for the passage have put him
in England during the '15 or not?)
Cheryl
singhals
> singhals wrote:
>
>
>>John Evans (fhmlist) wrote:
>>[snip]
>>
>>
>>
>>>Cheryl said,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Putting in a special field for those dozen onto the other couple
>>>>thousand will (a) clutter up the display and printouts and
>>>>(b) use storage space which will (c) slow down the displays.
>>>
>>>
>>>Just because new events are introduced into the master event definition
>>>list, for *optional* use with selected individuals, it doesn't imply that
>>>a mandatory field has to be created in every individual's timeline for
>>>that event. So extra storage space, etc, isn't required for a few thousand
>>>people.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>If any of the named programs allows one to select events in
>>that fashion, someone needs to tell me which option, because
>>I've not found it. I'd be HAPPY to be wrong again.
>
>
> always available, but when it is, it does sometimes let me
> do that.
FTR: Now I tried it on an entire database. On the whole, as
the man said, I'd rather be in Philadelphia.
REVENT is better for my purposes, which is to note which
historical events people have in common. Using Legacy to do
that was painful, as the event-date won't stick, unless I
put it in the event name. blech.
Anyone know if UFT will run on Win7?
Cheryl