RE: GENANZ Digest, Vol 2, Issue 507
lee hatfield
also for not researching before asking for help. ( i had researched, but
reached a dead end, and thought that asking for help was a sensible move,)
and i dont use capital letters as i never learned to type and i have
arthritis!
i do have to agree with him on how not knowing your parents can be bad for
your health! my dad left my mum when i was quite young and we never saw him
again. his family was riddled with diabetes , but we did not know that, as
he was english and went back there. ( he didnt tell us of course!)
when i got to about 35 i got a bit overweight after my last child . i wasnt
worried as i thought it was natural and i never ate junk food etc... i had
never known anyone with diabetes and always assured doctors that there was
none in our family! well, anyway , it turned out that that was what i had !
then i traced my father , and found he had it, and so did his sister, etc...
i wish i could have known this, as i would have probably taken up intensive
excersize and not eaten any carbs, which may have saved me from getting it!
now my sight is fading and i have a lot of other problems. one comfort is
that i can always feel superior to d. moody, as i dont need to spend my
days finding ways to insult other people....presumably he does it to feel
better about himself!
regards, lee
>From: genanz-...@rootsweb.com
>Reply-To: gen...@rootsweb.com
>To: gen...@rootsweb.com
>Subject: GENANZ Digest, Vol 2, Issue 507
>Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2007 15:46:37 -0600
>
>Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Confused (Wal & Andrea Roberts)
> 2. Re: Confused (Don Moody)
> 3. Re: Confused (ian.wes...@ihug.co.nz)
> 4. Re: Confused (Sherlock Holmes)
> 5. Re: Confused (Helen Castle)
> 6. confused and getting over it (ma...@rickarby.net)
> 7. Re: Confused (Alan & Elaine Rogers)
>From: Wal & Andrea Roberts <wal...@melbpc.org.au>
>To: gen...@rootsweb.com
>Subject: Re: Confused Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2007 22:58:02 +1000
>At 08:20 PM 9/10/2007, Helen Castle wrote:
>
>>I still fail to see how knowing who your birth parents are would stop your
>>diabetes from progressing further than if you did not know who they are.
>
>There is no such thing as 'birth parents' - there is parents, family,
>mother, father, brothers & sisters, etc
>BUT no 'birth' anything. This is an American term coined by someone who's
>name I have forgotten, who has since come out and said that she regrets
>ever making it up.
>
>>I still fail to see how knowing who your birth parents are would stop your
>>diabetes from progressing further than if you did not know who they are
>
>>If you lead a lifestyle that required you to change eating habits and
>>lifestyle after diagnosis then knowing your parents and family members may
>>never have changed anything.
>
>Its ok for you, you obviously know who your parents were - I find this
>cheap shot just as rude as others that Don has made in the past, At least
>we know now why Don has been the way he is - Don is an angry adoptee - and
>he probably has a right to be that way.
>
>Cheers
>Angie
>
>
>
>Andrea Roberts....in Melbourne, Australia.
>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Searching for Pyke/Millsom/Goodman/McCann/Rorke/Presnell/
>Moorhouse/Millard/Taylor/Toppin
>http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Styx/8556/index.html
>
>
>From: "Don Moody" <dpm...@btinternet.com>
>To: gen...@rootsweb.com
>Subject: Re: Confused
>Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 09:38:57 +0100
>
>"Helen Castle" <helen...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:470a8bb8$0$1031$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
> >> My diabetes has advanced to further and worse complications than it
> >> need have done. That is because I was adopted, and did not know the
> >> birthfamily history of diabetes until long after I should have
> >> changed eating habits and lifestyle.
> >
> > While I feel for you situation Don and find your posts quite helpful
> > (apart from the barbed attacks) I fail to see how knowing that your
> > family had diabetes would have helped you - if you didnt have
> > healthy eating habits and lifestyle then you were a good candidate
> > for obesity, diabetes, cancer etc all by yourself.
> >
> > My husband has diabetes and it happened despite his family not
> > having diabetes or any history of it. It came about from his
> > unhealthy lifestyle that I had begged him to give up - working 2
> > jobs, overtime 2 nights a week, not sleeping properly, drinking, bad
> > eating habits. Did it for a prolonged period of time and ended up
> > with diabetes.
> >
> > Anyone who has an unhealthy lifestyle has a high likelihood of
> > contracting all sorts of problems. Knowing your family history wont
> > make any difference. I get the impression you were in the services
> > for a prolonged period of time and my experience of army, navy and
> > airforce friends is that they live life on the edge and think they
> > are unbreakable. They are often quite fit but live the most unhealty
> > lifestyle despite this.
> >
> > Now if you lived a healthy lifestyle and exercised regularly and
> > still contracted diabetes I can understand that knowing your family
> > history would be helpful. However by your own admission you should
> > have changed a lot earlier.
>
>Then I'm afraid to say Helen that both you and your husband have a
>very great deal to learn about what diabetes is, what causes it, and
>how its progress may be slowed. It is far too big a subject to go into
>here, and is still a work in very active research progress.
>
>Some forms of diabetes can be induced in mammals with no genetic
>history of diabetes. Other forms of diabetes arise out of having the
>appropriate genes. When, whether, and how those genes get activated is
>the issue. Obesity as such does not cause diabetes. If it did then
>every obese person would be diabetic and no non-obese person would be
>diabetic. That is not what is observed. Simply look around you. There
>are obese non-diabetics and slim diabetics. The mantra you've
>evidently swallowed is a medical cop-out, is misleading, and in some
>cases is downright dangerous. The fact is that for some diabetics the
>obesity and the diabetes are outcomes of a genetic cause. One does not
>cause the other.
>
>There is no way of telling from a distance what sort of diabetic your
>husband is. But it is possible to say from any distance that for the
>sake of your husband and any children it would be a damn good idea to
>swot up more on diabetes a.s.a.p.
>
>However, all that is not the point. I used the example of diabetes
>because, ironically, it happened to be relevant at the exact moment I
>read the OP. I could have used any one of 400+ other examples of the
>same point. Which is that adoptees cannot begin to cope with genetic
>conditions until they know they have such conditions or particular
>liabilities. That is information which children who live with
>biological parents and know the relatives of those parents pick up in
>the course of daily 'gossip' about family. That is information from
>which adoptees are wholly barred unless and until they find out about
>the genealogy and health of their birthrelatives. And that ignorance
>can kill.
>
>Don
>
>
>
>From: <ian.wes...@ihug.co.nz>
>To: gen...@rootsweb.com
>Subject: Re: Confused
>Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 07:07:22 +1300
>On Tue, 09 Oct 2007 22:58:02 +1000, Wal & Andrea Roberts
><wal...@melbpc.org.au> wrote:
>
> > There is no such thing as 'birth parents' - there is parents, family,
> > mother, father, brothers & sisters, etc BUT no 'birth' anything.
> > This is an American term coined by someone who's name I have forgotten,
> > who has since come out and said that she regrets ever making it up.
>
>So what do you do to distinguish between the two sets of parents?
>
> > Its ok for you, you obviously know who your parents were - I find
> > this cheap shot just as rude as others that Don has made in the
> > past, At least we know now why Don has been the way he is - Don is
> > an angry adoptee - and he probably has a right to be that way.
>
>We don't know if this is the reason for Don being the way he is. There
>could be, and probably is, an entirely different reason for it. Many people
>have character defects that drives them to act strangely. Even if it is the
>reason, no one has the right to take their anger out on people that have
>never given them any offence.
>
>Ian Westergaard
>New Zealand
>
>
>
>
>From: Sherlock Holmes <hawke_e...@yahoo.com.au>
>To: gen...@rootsweb.com
>Subject: Re: Confused
>Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 08:37:19 +1300
>Helen Castle wrote:
>>Oh for goodness sake - how can that be callous or cruel
>>
>>I failed to see the connection between adoption and the progress of
>>diabetes!!!
>>
>>I understand knowing your parentage can help you understand why but it
>>cannot stop the progress of the disease in a person who admittedly had to
>>make eating and lifestyle changes once diagnosed. This is altogether
>>different from someone who was diagnosed despite living a healthy
>>lifestyle, exercising regularly and otherwise hale and hearty.
>>
>>I understand also that adoption is a sensitive topic and would never
>>intentionally cause any hurt but linking the knowledge of parentage to the
>>progress of a disease is a long draw of the bow.
>>
>>I have osteo arthritis in my knees and my doctor said I was predisposed to
>>it, probably inherited it, yet no-one else in my family has ever had it.
>>So knowing my parents did nothing to stop me developing a condition which
>>doctors consider I probably inherited.
>>
>>Helen
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>"Josephine" <wolla...@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
>>news:mailman.3445.1191...@rootsweb.com...
>>>I have not taken part in what is going on in this post but the comment
>>>below was totally uncalled for . It is clear that you are not adopted
>>>because if you were you would not have made this cruel comment.
>>>
>>>""I still fail to see how knowing who your birth parents are would stop
>>>your diabetes from progressing further than if you did not know who they
>>>are.""
>>>
>>>It is clear that you are not adopted because if you were you would not
>>>have made this cruel comment.
>>>
>>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Helen Castle" <helen...@yahoo.com>
>>>Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.australia+nz
>>>To: <gen...@rootsweb.com>
>>>Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 8:20 PM
>>>Subject: Re: Confused
>>>
>>>
>>>>I never said obesity caused diabetes - I said an unhealthy lifestyle can
>>>>lead to all sorts of problems. In my husbands case he ended up with
>>>>diabetes whether he was predisposed or had the wrong genes or his
>>>>lifestyle caused it no one has ever told us.
>>>>
>>>>Funnily enough I have met fat and thin people with diabetes over the
>>>>years - some had a bad lifestyle, some were obese, some just had
>>>>diabetes despite all their efforts. In fact I met someone recently who
>>>>had gone off all medication and treatment for the past 2 years by
>>>>adopting a particular diet and exercise program. He has never been obese
>>>>- just had an awful lifestyle with no one else in his family ever being
>>>>diagnosed.
>>>>
>>>>I still fail to see how knowing who your birth parents are would stop
>>>>your diabetes from progressing further than if you did not know who they
>>>>are.
>>>>
>>>>If you lead a lifestyle that required you to change eating habits and
>>>>lifestyle after diagnosis then knowing your parents and family members
>>>>may never have changed anything.
>>>>
>>>>Helen
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>"Don Moody" <dpm...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
>>>>news:Rt6dnfuEFYP...@bt.com...
>>>>>"Helen Castle" <helen...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>>>>news:470a8bb8$0$1031$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
>>>>>>>My diabetes has advanced to further and worse complications than it
>>>>>>>need have done. That is because I was adopted, and did not know the
>>>>>>>birthfamily history of diabetes until long after I should have
>>>>>>>changed eating habits and lifestyle.
>>>>>>While I feel for you situation Don and find your posts quite helpful
>>>>>>(apart from the barbed attacks) I fail to see how knowing that your
>>>>>>family had diabetes would have helped you - if you didnt have healthy
>>>>>>eating habits and lifestyle then you were a good candidate for
>>>>>>obesity, diabetes, cancer etc all by yourself.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>My husband has diabetes and it happened despite his family not having
>>>>>>diabetes or any history of it. It came about from his unhealthy
>>>>>>lifestyle that I had begged him to give up - working 2 jobs, overtime
>>>>>>2 nights a week, not sleeping properly, drinking, bad eating habits.
>>>>>>Did it for a prolonged period of time and ended up with diabetes.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Anyone who has an unhealthy lifestyle has a high likelihood of
>>>>>>contracting all sorts of problems. Knowing your family history wont
>>>>>>make any difference. I get the impression you were in the services for
>>>>>>a prolonged period of time and my experience of army, navy and
>>>>>>airforce friends is that they live life on the edge and think they are
>>>>>>unbreakable. They are often quite fit but live the most unhealty
>>>>>>lifestyle despite this.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Now if you lived a healthy lifestyle and exercised regularly and still
>>>>>>contracted diabetes I can understand that knowing your family history
>>>>>>would be helpful. However by your own admission you should have
>>>>>>changed a lot earlier.
>>>>>Then I'm afraid to say Helen that both you and your husband have a very
>>>>>great deal to learn about what diabetes is, what causes it, and how its
>>>>>progress may be slowed. It is far too big a subject to go into here,
>>>>>and is still a work in very active research progress.
>>>>>
>>>>>Some forms of diabetes can be induced in mammals with no genetic
>>>>>history of diabetes. Other forms of diabetes arise out of having the
>>>>>appropriate genes. When, whether, and how those genes get activated is
>>>>>the issue. Obesity as such does not cause diabetes. If it did then
>>>>>every obese person would be diabetic and no non-obese person would be
>>>>>diabetic. That is not what is observed. Simply look around you. There
>>>>>are obese non-diabetics and slim diabetics. The mantra you've evidently
>>>>>swallowed is a medical cop-out, is misleading, and in some cases is
>>>>>downright dangerous. The fact is that for some diabetics the obesity
>>>>>and the diabetes are outcomes of a genetic cause. One does not cause
>>>>>the other.
>>>>>
>>>>>There is no way of telling from a distance what sort of diabetic your
>>>>>husband is. But it is possible to say from any distance that for the
>>>>>sake of your husband and any children it would be a damn good idea to
>>>>>swot up more on diabetes a.s.a.p.
>>>>>
>>>>>However, all that is not the point. I used the example of diabetes
>>>>>because, ironically, it happened to be relevant at the exact moment I
>>>>>read the OP. I could have used any one of 400+ other examples of the
>>>>>same point. Which is that adoptees cannot begin to cope with genetic
>>>>>conditions until they know they have such conditions or particular
>>>>>liabilities. That is information which children who live with
>>>>>biological parents and know the relatives of those parents pick up in
>>>>>the course of daily 'gossip' about family. That is information from
>>>>>which adoptees are wholly barred unless and until they find out about
>>>>>the genealogy and health of their birthrelatives. And that ignorance
>>>>>can kill.
>>>>>
>>>>>Don
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>-------------------------------
>>>>To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
>>>>GENANZ-...@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the
>>>>quotes in the subject and the body of the message
>>>>
>>>
>>>Send instant messages to your online friends
>>>http://au.messenger.yahoo.com
>>
>>
>Helen,
>When a person knows that part of the family have a history of a genetic
>malfunction that can be managed by diet one is armed with information that
>may inhibit the onset of that malfunction.
>Not knowing of a genetic malfunction could lead to a possible on set of a
>condition that could have be avoided had you had that information in the
>first place.
>Being adopted puts the person concerned in a position of not knowing what
>possible genetic malfunctions could run in the family that may be able to
>be managed or avoided by having a healthy life style.
>This is the message that Don is endeavoring to spell out and he ought to
>know because he is in that situation.
>
>As for the person who started this thread I hope for your sake that who
>ever has claimed they have information on your adoption is dealt with as it
>appears that sense able and respectful protocol has not been carried out.
>From what I understand of the situation an agency ought to have been
>handling an issue like this that has strict codes of ethics, who act in the
>best interest of both parties and do not give out any details to either
>party with out their consent, plus the first meeting is supervised to
>ensure that support can be given to either party if needed.
>
>Regards,
>David
>
>From: "Helen Castle" <helen...@yahoo.com>
>To: gen...@rootsweb.com
>Subject: Re: Confused
>Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 06:28:28 +1000
>I am sorry you dont understand things from my point of view - I am not
>adopted and dont see the connection.
>
>After this exchange of emails I still dont see the connection. One would
>hope that after an exchange of emails I would.
>
>What I see is that some adopted children are angry - dont blame them.
>They feel that knowing their real parents may solve some of their medical
>quandaries - agree.
>I have a friend who is adopted and have known him since we were teenagers -
>he has no interest in his real parents and considers it a waste of time and
>effort to chase them up. This has been his attitude since we met 30 odd
>years ago.
>
>However I dont see how knowing your parents would have an effect on a
>disease progressing. Lifestyle and choices have a lot to do with the
>developing and the progress of diabetes - after 20 years of living with it
>in my husband I have a pretty good idea of how it works. He was not born
>with diabetes, he had no family history of it and his ability to cope with
>it depends on the lifestyle and choices that he makes.
>
>Knowing you have a family history of a disease does not necessarily cause
>you to change your lifestyle choices. Remember the point was that after
>diagnosis Don said he had to make changes to eating and lifestyle -
>indicating his lifestyle was not condusive to living with a disease. It is
>for this reason I failed to see why knowing your parents would make any
>difference. If you have chosen a lifestyle that needed changing how on
>earth
>can you blame the faster progress on not knowing your parents?
>
>Helen
>
>
>"Wal & Andrea Roberts" <wal...@melbpc.org.au> wrote in message
>news:mailman.3460.1191...@rootsweb.com...
> > At 08:20 PM 9/10/2007, Helen Castle wrote:
> >
> >>I still fail to see how knowing who your birth parents are would stop
>your
> >>diabetes from progressing further than if you did not know who they are.
> >
> > There is no such thing as 'birth parents' - there is parents, family,
> > mother, father, brothers & sisters, etc
> > BUT no 'birth' anything. This is an American term coined by someone
> > who's name I have forgotten, who has since come out and said that she
> > regrets ever making it up.
> >
> >>I still fail to see how knowing who your birth parents are would stop
>your
> >>diabetes from progressing further than if you did not know who they are
> >
> >>If you lead a lifestyle that required you to change eating habits and
> >>lifestyle after diagnosis then knowing your parents and family members
>may
> >>never have changed anything.
> >
> > Its ok for you, you obviously know who your parents were - I find this
> > cheap shot just as rude as others that Don has made in the past, At
>least
> > we know now why Don has been the way he is - Don is an angry adoptee -
>and
> > he probably has a right to be that way.
> >
> > Cheers
> > Angie
> >
> >
> >
> > Andrea Roberts....in Melbourne, Australia.
> >
>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Searching for Pyke/Millsom/Goodman/McCann/Rorke/Presnell/
> > Moorhouse/Millard/Taylor/Toppin
> > http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Styx/8556/index.html
> >
>
>
>
>From: <ma...@rickarby.net>
>Reply-To: ma...@rickarby.net
>To: <gen...@rootsweb.com>
>Subject: confused and getting over it
>Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 07:31:36 +1000
>I can see we are going to expand to every disease known, perhaps the thread
>is in need of rehab.
>
>
>kind regards
>Marg O'Leary
>Port Stephens, NSW, Australia
>ma...@rickarby.net
>
>family history web site - http://www.rickarby.net/
>One name study - SKEAD, SKED
>
>Tone's art web site http://www.tonesart.net/
>
>
>
>
>From: "Alan & Elaine Rogers" <alel...@tpg.com.au>
>To: <gen...@rootsweb.com>
>Subject: Re: Confused
>Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 07:45:59 +1000
>My daughter adopted a little boy here in Queensland four years ago. For the
>first two years she wrote letters, sent photos to the department of
>families, the birth mother could then have access if she wanted to those
>letters. All done very anonymously though to protect the adoptive parents.
>It would now be helpful to know a bit about the medical history of the
>birth parents as this little boy has a number of problems including
>Aspergers syndrome, multiple allergies and so on. . Elaine
>----- Original Message ----- From: "Josephine" <wolla...@yahoo.com.au>
>To: <gen...@rootsweb.com>
>Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 8:40 PM
>Subject: Re: Confused
>
>
>>I have not taken part in what is going on in this post but the comment
>>below was totally uncalled for . It is clear that you are not adopted
>>because if you were you would not have made this cruel comment.
>>
>>""I still fail to see how knowing who your birth parents are would stop
>>your
>>diabetes from progressing further than if you did not know who they are.""
>>
>>It is clear that you are not adopted because if you were you would not
>>have
>>made this cruel comment.
>>
>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Helen Castle" <helen...@yahoo.com>
>>Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.australia+nz
>>To: <gen...@rootsweb.com>
>>Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 8:20 PM
>>Subject: Re: Confused
>>
>>
>>>I never said obesity caused diabetes - I said an unhealthy lifestyle can
>>>lead to all sorts of problems. In my husbands case he ended up with
>>>diabetes whether he was predisposed or had the wrong genes or his
>>>lifestyle
>>>caused it no one has ever told us.
>>>
>>>Funnily enough I have met fat and thin people with diabetes over the
>>>years - some had a bad lifestyle, some were obese, some just had diabetes
>>>despite all their efforts. In fact I met someone recently who had gone
>>>off
>>>all medication and treatment for the past 2 years by adopting a
>>>particular
>>>diet and exercise program. He has never been obese - just had an awful
>>>lifestyle with no one else in his family ever being diagnosed.
>>>
>>>I still fail to see how knowing who your birth parents are would stop
>>>your
>>>diabetes from progressing further than if you did not know who they are.
>>>
>>>If you lead a lifestyle that required you to change eating habits and
>>>lifestyle after diagnosis then knowing your parents and family members
>>>may
>>>never have changed anything.
>>>
>>>Helen
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>"Don Moody" <dpm...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
>>>news:Rt6dnfuEFYP...@bt.com...
>>>>
>>>>"Helen Castle" <helen...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>>>news:470a8bb8$0$1031$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
>>>>>>My diabetes has advanced to further and worse complications than it
>>>>>>need have done. That is because I was adopted, and did not know the
>>>>>>birthfamily history of diabetes until long after I should have changed
>>>>>>eating habits and lifestyle.
>>>>>
>>>>>While I feel for you situation Don and find your posts quite helpful
>>>>>(apart from the barbed attacks) I fail to see how knowing that your
>>>>>family had diabetes would have helped you - if you didnt have healthy
>>>>>eating habits and lifestyle then you were a good candidate for obesity,
>>>>>diabetes, cancer etc all by yourself.
>>>>>
>>>>>My husband has diabetes and it happened despite his family not having
>>>>>diabetes or any history of it. It came about from his unhealthy
>>>>>lifestyle that I had begged him to give up - working 2 jobs, overtime 2
>>>>>nights a week, not sleeping properly, drinking, bad eating habits. Did
>>>>>it for a prolonged period of time and ended up with diabetes.
>>>>>
>>>>>Anyone who has an unhealthy lifestyle has a high likelihood of
>>>>>contracting all sorts of problems. Knowing your family history wont
>>>>>make
>>>>>any difference. I get the impression you were in the services for a
>>>>>prolonged period of time and my experience of army, navy and airforce
>>>>>friends is that they live life on the edge and think they are
>>>>>unbreakable. They are often quite fit but live the most unhealty
>>>>>lifestyle despite this.
>>>>>
>>>>>Now if you lived a healthy lifestyle and exercised regularly and still
>>>>>contracted diabetes I can understand that knowing your family history
>>>>>would be helpful. However by your own admission you should have changed
>>>>>a lot earlier.
>>>>
>>>>Then I'm afraid to say Helen that both you and your husband have a very
>>>>great deal to learn about what diabetes is, what causes it, and how its
>>>>progress may be slowed. It is far too big a subject to go into here, and
>>>>is still a work in very active research progress.
>>>>
>>>>Some forms of diabetes can be induced in mammals with no genetic history
>>>>of diabetes. Other forms of diabetes arise out of having the appropriate
>>>>genes. When, whether, and how those genes get activated is the issue.
>>>>Obesity as such does not cause diabetes. If it did then every obese
>>>>person would be diabetic and no non-obese person would be diabetic. That
>>>>is not what is observed. Simply look around you. There are obese
>>>>non-diabetics and slim diabetics. The mantra you've evidently swallowed
>>>>is a medical cop-out, is misleading, and in some cases is downright
>>>>dangerous. The fact is that for some diabetics the obesity and the
>>>>diabetes are outcomes of a genetic cause. One does not cause the other.
>>>>
>>>>There is no way of telling from a distance what sort of diabetic your
>>>>husband is. But it is possible to say from any distance that for the
>>>>sake
>>>>of your husband and any children it would be a damn good idea to swot up
>>>>more on diabetes a.s.a.p.
>>>>
>>>>However, all that is not the point. I used the example of diabetes
>>>>because, ironically, it happened to be relevant at the exact moment I
>>>>read the OP. I could have used any one of 400+ other examples of the
>>>>same
>>>>point. Which is that adoptees cannot begin to cope with genetic
>>>>conditions until they know they have such conditions or particular
>>>>liabilities. That is information which children who live with biological
>>>>parents and know the relatives of those parents pick up in the course of
>>>>daily 'gossip' about family. That is information from which adoptees are
>>>>wholly barred unless and until they find out about the genealogy and
>>>>health of their birthrelatives. And that ignorance can kill.
>>>>
>>>>Don
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>-------------------------------
>>>To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
>>>GENANZ-...@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the
>>>quotes
>>>in the subject and the body of the message
>>>
>>
>>
>>Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com
>>
>>-------------------------------
>>To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
>>GENANZ-...@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes
>>in the subject and the body of the message
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
Can you see your house from the sky? Try Live Search Maps
http://maps.live.com
ian.wes...@ihug.co.nz
On Thu, 11 Oct 2007 23:55:21 +0000, "lee hatfield" <ee...@hotmail.com>
wrote:
> and i dont use capital letters as i never learned to type and i have
> arthritis!
Hi Lee
I also have arthritis and never learned to type - I use two fingers. So it
is very painful for me spend much time on the keyboard.
I bought the speech recognition program "Dragon Naturally Speaking". I now
use it all the time and seldom touch the keyboard.
It was quite expensive at US$199 but worth every penny of it.
It took a bit of perseverance to learn to use and teach it to recognise my
speach but I can now input text to the computer faster than my very
experienced touch typist sister-in-law.
Consumer Magazine in New Zealand has just done a review of it and reported
very favourably recommending that people in our situation invest in it.
Have a look here - http://www.nuance.com/naturallyspeaking/home/ - I have
no vested interest in recommending this program, I am just happy to do it
as it has been such a great help to me.
Ian Westergaard
New Zealand
Joanne and Ron Flack
You are a marvel - you help so many on the List, and have helped me many
times, and your wonderful perservance to master the speech recognition
program is another is to be greatly admired.
Cheers
Joanne
Lindsay Graham
as I suspect there will be many people out there who are interested in this topic. I've been considering VRS for some time, and
hope to make the jump very soon. I want to use it for my own dictation but also for recording oral history by others.
For me, the primary use will be transcribing a pile of old diaries and letters that I have, and I presume that would work pretty
well after one has trained Dragon. Ian, you mentioned that "it took some perseverance" to train Dragon -- how long did it take, and
what sort of problems did you have to overcome? How easy is it to use in a variety of applications -- eg, Word, Outlook Express?
For oral history, I guess it would be rather less useful, because Dragon would not have been 'trained' for the person being
interviewed. But for someone like me who is not a touch typist, is it still better than manual transcription?
What are the differences between Dragon Standard and Dragon Preferred? I see that a dictaphone comes with Preferred -- is it
digital or cassette? And is Dragon Preferred compatible with dictaphones or recorders from other manufacturers?
Hope Ian or others can help me decide how good an idea it will be for me -- thanks.
Lindsay Graham
Canberra, Australia
PS The way the $A (and, I think, the $NZ) is going, $US199 is getting cheaper every day <g>.
Sherlock Holmes
Hi Lindsay,
For a starter the program is written to accept the American twang, so it
does take time to adapt to any other twang ( accent ).
I tried one of these programs many years ago and finally gave up as the
program was not up to scratch as it would not accept the non American
spelling that the program forced on you.
Hopefully this situation has changed and the programs have been written
to take each individual countries dictionary e.g. UK English, Australian
English, New Zealand English, and so forth.
As to weather the programs have been written to mimic our accent after
being taught by us is another matter.
Some correction will still need to be employed as the program will not
always get it right.
David
Ian Westergaard
I have only had the program for about 12 months and am still learning as
I have been away from home quite a lot and don't have a laptop.
The initial training does not take long - about half an hour. Consumer
Magazine recommends dictating the instruction manual as an extra
training exercise as "it enables you to get to know the program, while
the program gets to know your voice." Though I see the Nuance site says
that you don't need initial training with the latest edition.
After training, the program takes a while to fine tune and the error
rate is quite high, 5% to 10%, but lowering to 2 -3% as time goes by.
This is when perseverance is required as you often have to correct a
word several times. Often the error is yours as you are trying too hard
and your pronunciation varies as a result. The key is to be consistent
in your pronunciation, use your normal conversational voice and be
patient. Some words can be particularly difficult - particularly single
syllable words. I am still trying to train the program to differentiate
between "of" and "off", "to", "too" and two are also a problem. New
Zealand place names can be a problem, especially ones of Maori origin
and I guess the same will apply in Australia.
One advantage for a "hunt and peck" typist like me is that you are able
to watch the screen instead of the keyboard and spot and correct
mistakes immediately - whether they are the program's or yours.
I use the program a lot for the purpose that you propose and it was the
prospect of transcribing all those old handwritten documents which
helped me justify the purchase price.
I don't think that it would be much use for direct playback of oral
history tapes as it would not recognise all the different speech
patterns, but you could listen to the tape and repeat it into the
microphone.
On the subject of purchase price - I downloaded mine from the Nuance,
USA, site. According to Consumer Magazine, to buy a boxed version from a
New Zealand retailer costs NZ$259 for the standard version and NZ$449
for the preferred version. I purchased preferred for US$199 which worked
out then to about NZ$300. Of course you don't get a microphone when you
download it from Nuance but I had a headphone set and it works
perfectly, I have forgotten where it came from.
On the features of the various versions - you can get that from the
Nuance website. You will need the preferred edition if you want to use a
Dictaphone.
Hope this helps
Ian
This is Consumer Magazine's comments:
* Speech recognition software can be useful for people with
repetitive strain injuries or disabilities affecting motor
co-ordination. Slow typists or people needing to transcribe large
volumes of speech to text can also find it useful.
* If you're a quick and competent typist, speech software may not
save you time. Highly specialised or technical speech, such as
engineering or scientific lingo, could be time-consuming to teach
the program. If you work in a noisy environment, the program could
have difficulty picking up your voice clearly.
* New Zealand accents cause some problems for speech-recognition
software. Re-training the program and correcting errors can be
irritating and time-consuming.
* If you need speech recognition software, Dragon Naturally Speaking
seems the only way to go. Considering Windows Vista costs between
$500 and $1000, paying $259 for the Standard version of Dragon
(including the microphone) doesn't seem so bad.
* More advanced versions of Dragon Naturally Speaking are available
which include handy extra features. The next step up from Standard
($259) is Preferred ($449) which can, amongst other things,
perform text-to-speech (in addition to speech-to-text), transcribe
directly from a recorder, and work with more programs.
The Professional version ($1649) includes highly technical options
for specialists, works with far more programs again, and can have
specialised vocabularies such as medical or legal terms added.
Lindsay Graham wrote:
>Very interested in your experience with Dragon Naturally Speaking, Ian. I know this is rather off topic, but I'm replying on list,
>as I suspect there will be many people out there who are interested in this topic. I've been considering VRS for some time, and
>hope to make the jump very soon. I want to use it for my own dictation but also for recording oral history by others.
>
>For me, the primary use will be transcribing a pile of old diaries and letters that I have, and I presume that would work pretty
>well after one has trained Dragon. Ian, you mentioned that "it took some perseverance" to train Dragon -- how long did it take, and
>what sort of problems did you have to overcome? How easy is it to use in a variety of applications -- eg, Word, Outlook Express?
>
>For oral history, I guess it would be rather less useful, because Dragon would not have been 'trained' for the person being
>interviewed. But for someone like me who is not a touch typist, is it still better than manual transcription?
>
>What are the differences between Dragon Standard and Dragon Preferred? I see that a dictaphone comes with Preferred -- is it
>digital or cassette? And is Dragon Preferred compatible with dictaphones or recorders from other manufacturers?
>
>Hope Ian or others can help me decide how good an idea it will be for me -- thanks.
>
>Lindsay Graham
>Canberra, Australia
>
>PS The way the $A (and, I think, the $NZ) is going, $US199 is getting cheaper every day <g>.
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <ian.wes...@ihug.co.nz>
>To: <gen...@rootsweb.com>
>Sent: Friday, October 12, 2007 12:30 PM
>Subject: RE: GENANZ Digest, Vol 2, Issue 507
>
>
>
>
>>On Thu, 11 Oct 2007 23:55:21 +0000, "lee hatfield" <ee...@hotmail.com>
>>wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>and i dont use capital letters as i never learned to type and i have
>>>arthritis!
>>>
>>>
>>Hi Lee
>>
>>I also have arthritis and never learned to type - I use two fingers. So it
>>is very painful for me spend much time on the keyboard.
>>
>>I bought the speech recognition program "Dragon Naturally Speaking". I now
>>use it all the time and seldom touch the keyboard.
>>
>>It was quite expensive at US$199 but worth every penny of it.
>>
>>It took a bit of perseverance to learn to use and teach it to recognise my
>>speech but I can now input text to the computer faster than my very
>>experienced touch typist sister-in-law.
>>
>>Consumer Magazine in New Zealand has just done a review of it and reported
>>very favourably recommending that people in our situation invest in it.
>>
>>Have a look here - http://www.nuance.com/naturallyspeaking/home/ - I have
>>no vested interest in recommending this program, I am just happy to do it
>>as it has been such a great help to me.
>>
>>Ian Westergaard
>>New Zealand
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Don Moody
"Lindsay Graham" <LDGr...@aapt.net.au> wrote in message
news:mailman.3637.1192...@rootsweb.com...
> Very interested in your experience with Dragon Naturally Speaking,
> Ian. I know this is rather off topic, but I'm replying on list, as
> I suspect there will be many people out there who are interested in
> this topic. I've been considering VRS for some time, and hope to
> make the jump very soon. I want to use it for my own dictation but
> also for recording oral history by others.
general use the usual eason is that it doesn't work very well in a
wide variety of applications in many different hands.
It's a repeat of the early days of OCR, which was going to save all
the tedious retyping of old records.
In both cases the reason is that the density of errors even after
'training' is so high that the careful editying and correction time
and effort exceeds the cost of a human typist doing it without
technology.
>
> For me, the primary use will be transcribing a pile of old diaries
> and letters that I have, and I presume that would work pretty well
> after one has trained Dragon.
If by 'pretty well' you could mean you'd be able to read the stuff as
a rather poorly produced novel, then OK. If you mean could you do
reliable searhes on, say, a particular spelling of a particular name,
then no. Not unless you put in the manual editing and correcting
stage.
>
> For oral history, I guess it would be rather less useful, because
> Dragon would not have been 'trained' for the person being
> interviewed. But for someone like me who is not a touch typist, is
> it still better than manual transcription?
For those used to taking oral histories the golden rule is to ype it
up very fast and while the speaker is around to check what seems a bit
odd. Ask an shorthand-typist taking dictatio from a new boss.
> Hope Ian or others can help me decide how good an idea it will be
> for me -- thanks.
>
All these 'not quite' technologies have a place for specifically
disabled people who cannot do something at all and for whom a poor
technology means they can do something, even if slowly and badly. It
doesn't apply just to VRS. For specific circumstances it is always
worth talking to an occupational therapist with a technological bent.
They've seen far more than one case and are good at picking up the
cues which make a particular variety of technology the best current
option for a particular case. It can't be done by general advice from
afar. It has to be done very directly by a person 'on the ground'.
My recommendation is not to spend money on any kit or program until
after talking to an OT. The OT may confirm your thinking, or save you
making an expensive mistake.
Don