Re: women are the anti-feminists
Michael Snyder
<do_not_e-mail_me_here@abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyzabcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyza
bcdefghijk.com> wrote in message
news:1126982260.3...@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Rick, you wrote:
> * * * * *
> . . . . why many women are against feminism as they perceive it.
> . . . . .
> BUT WHY are some women so opposed to women in 'power'???
Bad premise number one. "Against feminism as they perceive it"
is not equivalent to "opposed to women in power".
> * * * * *
>
> I recommend Right-Wing Women, by Andrea Dworkin, and Backlash, by Susan
> Faludi, the latter dated as to research but its basic points remaining
> valid. Other books address this, too.
Bad premise number two. Faludi's research cannot "remain" valid
if (as I believe) it was never valid in the first place.
> Beside that, many people evaluate unfamiliar phenomena by relying on
> familiar sources that offer evaluations of what they wonder about.
Bad premise number three. The fact that some women are against
feminism does not mean that they are unfamiliar with it.
Your methods of argument need serious work, Nick.
Often I can barely make out what it is you are trying to say,
but when I can, it usually seems to be a premise stated as
a conclusion.
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Rick Merrill
> "Nick (Nick Levinson)"
> <do_not_e-mail_me_here@abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyzabcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyza
> bcdefghijk.com> wrote in message
> news:1126982260.3...@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
>>Rick, you wrote:
>>* * * * *
>>. . . . why many women are against feminism as they perceive it.
>>. . . . .
>>BUT WHY are some women so opposed to women in 'power'???
>
>
> Bad premise number one. "Against feminism as they perceive it"
> is not equivalent to "opposed to women in power".
>
I agree: my intent was to identify two (separable) issues.
- OP
Nick (Nick Levinson)
Michael, I and you wrote:
* * * * *
I recommend . . . Backlash, by Susan
Faludi, . . . dated as to research but its basic points remaining
valid. . . .
* * * * *
Bad premise number two. Faludi's research cannot "remain" valid if (as
I believe) it was never valid in the first place.
* * * * *
What point of Susan Faludi's wasn't valid in the first place?
A page number will save time, else I'll likely respond in general
terms. I read the book years ago. Pick a major point, one that makes a
significant difference in her argument.
You quoted and wrote:
* * * * *
[M]any people evaluate unfamiliar phenomena by relying on familiar
sources that offer evaluations of what they wonder about.
* * * * *
Bad premise number three. The fact that some women are against
feminism does not mean that they are unfamiliar with it.
* * * * *
I'm right and you're right in your second sentence. The two statements
don't conflict. Where's the bad premise?
You quoted and wrote:
* * * * *
Rick, you wrote:
* * * * *
Bad premise number one. . . .
* * * * *
[About my statement:] Bad premise number two. . . .
* * * * *
[About my statement:] Bad premise number three. . . .
Your methods of argument need serious work, Nick. . . .
* * * * *
Rick might like your blaming me for what he wrote, and, besides, he may
not be drawing the equivalence you argue against (and, in a morer
recent post, he essentially agrees). He and I are both off the hook on
that one.
Rick wrote "Yes, I agree and that does give some insight into why many
women are against feminism as they perceive it." in response to Megan's
comment that "people seek comfort in the past, in tradition and in
ancestors when change happens too quickly." He doesn't say that
"feminism as they perceive it" is (in your words) "equivalent to
'[being] opposed to women in power'".
You wrote:
* * * * *
Your methods of argument need serious work, Nick.
* * * * *
Maybe, but not generally, and not in my posts, generally not what
you've pointed to. My errors are pretty rare and I acknowledged or
discovered them openly. I've responded to, and dismantled, many of your
complaints. I do, however, readily acknowledge that you probably
haven't changed your mind much and that you disagree with me on many
things feminist.
You wrote:
* * * * *
Often I can barely make out what it is you are trying to say, but when
I can, it usually seems to be a premise stated as a conclusion.
* * * * *
You and I start from different starting points. For me, the case has
successfully been made on many points you still dispute, like whether
sex discrimination in the workplace exists. I've suggested you read
some books. It now appears you may have read one (Susan Faludi's).
Please continue.
-- Nick