Servian National Character
Barry Marjanovich
SERBIAN NATIONAL CHARACTER
BY GEORGE W. CESARICH
(CROATIA AND SERBIA - WHY IS THEIR PEACEFUL SEPARATION A EUROPEAN
NECESSITY?, "CROATIA" CULTRAL PUBLISHING CENTER, CHICAGO: 1954), p. 19-31.
There are certain idiosyncrasies of the Serbian national character of which
the outside world is totally unaware. And yet, to know them is a key to the
understanding of this small and vigorous nation which has so often in recent
years jeopardized peace and prevented stability in that sensitive part of
Europe. We have particularly in mind the Serbian propensity to narcissism,
megalomania and mystification. Many Serbians, and especially their leading
circles, gravitate excessively to these mental attitudes which are unknown
to most Croatians. 1 We should like to emphasize here that we do not regard
them as hereditary or genetic features of the Serbian nation, but as a
result of political, social and economic developments in Serbia during many
centuries.
As the American College Dictionary defines it, narcissism is the admiration
of one's own physical and mental attributes; it is a normal condition at the
infantile level of personality development. Megalomania is a form of mental
alienation marked by delusions of greatness. Mystification is intentional
misrepresentation of facts. These three character deficiencies are closely
related, and are, as such, important features of the Serbian national
personality. This fact has been frankly admitted by some objective Serbian
students of history. In a recently published political book, a Serbian
writer, Mr. Desimir Tosic, speaking about Serbian individualism, maintains
quite definitely: "A good part of the Serbian intelligentsia suffers from
the Narciss disease, - i.e., from deification of, and falling in love with
their own personality, their own figure, their own words, their own
writings. Of course, not only educated people suffer from this disease; it
goes down to the 'lower' levels and includes en masse our
half-intelligentsia..." 2 This kind of narcissism, according to Mr. Tosic,
"expresses itself in the protuberation of their own (Serbian)
personalities". 3 For this reason, it is quite understandable why one finds
among the Serbians so many "heroes" who have supposedly performed such
"great deeds" in the past. However, this kind of narcissism is,
unfortunately, not limited to the individual Serbian personalities. On a
broader, national level, it has turned into a very pronounced national
megalomania combined with a fabulous national mythology which has become at
times very dangerous to all the Serbian neighbors. To verify this statement,
which at first glance may appear fanciful, let us quote again a Serbian
source, Mr. Tosic, who writes: "Aside from the unstableness, what strikes us
particularly in our inner development is the megalomania of the majority of
our so-called 'leaders' coupled with the mythology of those who are led. By
the misrepresentation of facts, by the casting away of material truth, we
not only squander our national forces but also destroy our national
reputation in the outside world." 4 Mr. Tosic recognizes quite well the
inevitable link between megalomania and the misrepresentation of facts, and
he knows how seriously the present Serbian political leaders are given to
the mental aberrations of deception, exaggeration and mystification. A
recent manifestation of this spirit is the steady flow of nefarious
propaganda from the Serbian exiled political leaders as well as the Serbian
Communists in Yugoslavia against Cardinal Stepinac. 5 Both groups equally
use lies, deceit and slander to defame that great champion of freedom and
justice.
The Serbian books on history are another example of their propensity toward
megalomania and mystification. For instance, a Serbian historian, Mr. M. S.
Milojevic, has developed quite fantastic ideas about the Serbian people in
his book on Serbian history. He writes: "The first movement and migration of
the Serbian tribes was caused by the Chinese with whom they were incessantly
at war for 3000-4000 years, until the Chinese pushed the contemporary Serbs
to Siberia. From Siberia, the Serbians moved on, settling the countries
around the Caspian, Azov and Black Seas, also the lands in Armenia, Russia
and Germany, and partly in Sweden, Belgium and France. Another branch of the
Serbian people... was pushed into Asia Minor and from there moved to the
Balkan Peninsula, migrating after that to present Austria, Italy and
Germany, where they found other Serbs... A third branch of the Serbians was
pushed from India and went to present Africa, where they occupied new
settlements and started to fight, similarly as in other conquered provinces.
One part of the Serbs perished there, another part went to present Spain,
France, etc.... A very small part of this Serbian branch conquered and
pillaged Rome under the name of the Vandals, and after that they
disappeared... The fact that once the Serbians settled the whole of Asia
means that they once lived there as an independent and ruling nation." 6
This fantastic notion that the Serbians had once settled the whole of Asia,
Europe and Africa is evidently a combined product of a very vivid
imagination and extreme megalomania. Similar views can be found in many
Serbian books, though not always in such extremely fanciful form. 7 Another
Serbian historian and journalist, Mr. Sima Lukic-Lukin, in his book about
the ancient Serbians, states that they were "the greatest people of the
earth," "the strongest nation in the world," "immeasurably rich in
population and endlessly extended," "they fertilized all the countries of
Europe, Asia and Africa," "they built the tower of Babylon," they were "the
nation, in which Christ himself was born!" 8 Such unbelievable exaggerations
are quite typical of many Serbian books on history, politics, and culture.
In all probability, the Serbians are the only people in the world who could
produce and highly cherish a blasphemous song like the following:
"The Serbian heaven is of blue color,
In the heaven thrones God, the Serb,
Around him are the Serbian angels,
Honoring their God, who is a Serbian!" 9
Unfortunately for their neighbors, this is the spirit in which Serbian
children have been educated. No wonder that numerous Serbians, indoctrinated
with such fairy tales about their past, profoundly believe that the Serbian
people, as the greatest people in the world, possess special qualifications
to rule other peoples, particularly their neighbors, the Croatians,
Macedonians, Albanians, Bulgarians, Hungarians, etc. They regard the Serbian
army as invincible, the Serbian heroes as the greatest in the history of
mankind. In Serbian opinion, only "a heinous conspiracy" of their neighbors,
whom they all regard as their enemies, has prevented them from acquiring
"their rightful place in the world" as the rulers of the Balkans. An
ultranationalist Serbian song from the First World War contains the
following lines about their King Peter:
"Uncle Peter is riding on a white horse,
And behind him marches the whole of America." 10
No wonder that the Serbian political leaders, suffering from a chronic case
of megalomania, would like to make Serbia the leading nation if not in the
world then at least in the Balkans. This ambitious program necessitates, of
course, the subjugation of her neighbors. This is the reason of the constant
threat to European peace by Serbia which sees herself as a legitimate
successor of Byzantium. 11 This is equally true of a Royalist as of a
Communist Serbia.
It is not too difficult to explain some of the reasons for the infantile
traits in the Serbian national personality. Through centuries the Serbians
have lived as rayahs, i.e. non-Moslem subjects of the Ottoman Sultan. They
were subjected to innumerable discriminations and indignities. Their
struggle with the Turks was very unequal, and they suffered from an
inferiority feeling which they compensated after their liberation by a new
superiority and megalomania complex. In an uneven fight with the superior
Turks, deceit, cunning and dissimulation were the strongest weapons of the
subjugated Serbian rayahs.
A Montenegrin leader, Dr. Sekula Drljevic, clearly recognized these defects
of the Serbian national character. His entire life was spent fighting for a
free Montenegro, and for this reason Serbian chauvinist Chetniks
assassinated him and his wife, after the Second World War, in a refugee camp
in Austria. In one of his articles, Mr. DrIjevic wrote: "Under the name
'podvala' (deception) there exists in Serbia a moral and ethical system, a
religion. Serbia passionately believes in it. From the beginning of Serbia
to the present, the whole public life of Serbia testifies to her unshaken
belief in the power of deception." 12 However, the Serbian "podvala" is even
more than deception. It means not only the portrayal of the adversaries or
enemies in a false light, but also the imputation to them of the acts or
qualities, performed or possessed by the slanderer himself. Mr. Drjevic
describes many cases of Serbian deception in the past to prove his point.
Among other things, he calls the well-known Serbian political leader, Nikola
Pasic, a "Moses of the religion of deception." Under Pasic's leadership,
Serbia has become the center of many conspiracies against adjacent
countries, and the religion of deception has been transformed into a
"grandiose political system." Substantially, the religion of deception was
triumphant, according to Mr. DrIjevic, in the activities of the Serbian
revolutionary organizations, the National Defense (Narodna Obrana) and the
Black Hand (Crna Ruka), in the famous Friedjung trial (1909), in the Serbian
conspiracies against Montenegro and her Duke Nicholas (1908), in the
assassination of the Austrian, successor to the throne, Franz Ferdinand
(Sarajevo, 1914) in the Declarations of Corfu (1917) and Geneva (1918), in
the Saloniki trial (1918), etc., etc.
In the Serbian domestic life, this tendency to deception takes the form of
decorative external window-dressing, concealing the real facts of life. Mr.
Joza Kljakovic describes this in the following manner: "The Serbians, who
are the most expressive continuation of Byzantium in the Balkans, have also
changed everything into an outside decoration. Thus not only is their saint
in the church a decoration but also their whole religion... Their praying is
only a decoration, they pray with their mouth. Their laws are only
decorations, nobody obeys them. Their Yugoslavianism is a decoration, they
are Serbs. Their heroism is a decoration, they are Hajduks (bandits who
fought the Turks). Their democracy too is a decoration, they are all
totalitarians... Everything is a decoration and a lie." 13
The Serbian political and cultural leaders, - the Monarchists as well as the
Fascists and the Communists, - use deception and mystification on a national
and international scale. In the first Yugoslavia, they taught their children
that the First World War was won because of the decisive blows the Serbian
army had given to the Central Powers by their "victories" at the Saloniki
front (the Myth of Kajmakcalan). According to this Serbian myth, the Western
Allies had very little to do with the final victory. Furthermore, some
Serbian leaders were able to persuade London and Paris, in 1939, that the
Yugoslav army will defeat all its enemies. However, when the time for
fighting came, in 1941, that army disintegrated within a few days. Today,
the Serbian Communists speak in the same manner about 30 "invincible
Communist divisions," and unfortunately, some gullible people believe again
this story, disregarding completely the lessons of recent history. In
addition to the Serbian Communists, many Serbian political exiles suffer
from the same pathological condition, and their newspapers in exile are full
of all kinds of narcissism, megalomania, mystification and deception. The
previously mentioned Serbian writer, Mr. Desimir Tosic, is well aware of the
tendency of the leading Serbian political groups to mystify world opinion.
For this reason, he calls the attention of his fellow countrymen to the
words of a Serbian scholar, Mr. Jovan Cvijic, who once said, "Don't think
you can take in your adversaries, because they will make public your
deceptions." 14 Hence, Mr. Tosic advises against the use of deceptions in
the international field. In spite of this, Serbian political leaders in
exile prefer their own propensity to mystification to Mr. Tosic's well-meant
counsel. Not long ago, in 1951, some outstanding Serbian emigres (Mr. Adam
Pribicevic, Branko Miljus, and Vlada Belajcic) sent to the United Nations
Assembly a "Memorandum" directed against the Croatian people as a whole.
That memorandum is crammed with lies, calumnies, misrepresentations, and
outright slander. On the basis of the same memorandum, a book was published
in Paris, in which the Croatian people and the Catholic Church, Cardinal
Stepinac and the outstanding Croatian personalities, have been vilified in
the lowest fashion. 15 This book is a shameful model of the Serbian religion
of deception. Another similarly scurrilous example of it is a pamphlet
published in England, and distributed in England and America by the
professional anti-Catholic bigots and hatemongers. 16 It is openly admitted
that in the publication of that pamphlet the Serbian Monarchists and the
Serbian Communists have actively collaborated. Namely, the author
acknowledges with gratitude the co-operation of the following Serbian groups
or individuals: the government of the Kingdom of Yugoslavia in exile, under
King Peter; the government of the Federal Peoples Republic of Yugoslavia,
under Marshal Tito; the Orthodox Church of Yugoslavia; the Serbian Eastern
Orthodox Church for USA and Canada; Mr. Adam Pribicevic, Mr. Vladimir
Belajcic, Mr. Branko Miljus, Mr. D. Mirkovic, Mr. M. Sekulic, etc. 17 For
the true character of this bigoted publication it is very typical that all
Croatian (Catholic and Moslem) sources are entirely disregarded, while the
calumnious Serbian propaganda is accepted as "the whole truth." Moreover,
most of that Serbian propaganda material was fabricated in the laboratories
of Tito's infamous secret police (UDBA) with the purpose to vindicate the
oppression of the Catholic Church in Croatia. 18 However, it is in the
character of some of the Serbian political exiles that they are not at all
ashamed to help the Communists in the abusive propaganda against the
Croatian people and the Catholic Church. Thus, the common front of all the
Serbians, from the Monarchists to the Communists, against all their
neighbors, and particularly against the Croatians, is today a
well-established, though regrettable, fact.
Serbian megalomania and their propensity to mystification go hand in hand
with another of their unfortunate characteristics, i.e., their attempt to
appropriate the material or immaterial possessions that have for centuries
belonged to neighboring countries or peoples. Mr. L. v. Suedland explains
this feature of the Serbian character by the fact that the Serbians are a
mixture of Slavic peoples and of nomadic remnants of the old Romans who,
after the decline of Rome, continued to live in the mountains of the Balkans
as a nomadic, pastoral and predatory people (known as Vlachs or Wallachs).
19 He stresses, in his profound analysis of their nomadic traits, the
following ideas: "In the national character of the Serbians the nomadic and
rapacious character of mountain herdsmen is very well preserved... Wherever
the Serbians appear as a political mass, the striving to appropriate goods
belonging to others is too often the motive of their effort... Everything
that the Croatians possess, Croatian lands, Croatian literature, is Serbian.
The Croatians did not create anything during their history, only the
Serbians did." 20 Without any shame Serbian writers and historians
appropriate in their books Croatian lands, rulers, artists, poets,
novelists, etc., and describe them as Serbians. In this sense, they have
been always trying to influence the outstanding world encyclopedias, and
also publications dealing with the problems of Southeastern Europe and the
Balkans. Many books published in English, French and German are full of
Serbian mystifications, imposed upon gullible and uninformed authors by the
official "Yugoslav" agencies and information offices, or by the private or
semi-private Serbian propagandists. 21
After getting acquainted through bitter experiences with the Serbian
propensity to narcissism, megalomania and mystification, the Croatians do
not wish, under any circumstances, to continue living with them in a second,
or third, or any Yugoslavia. The Serbian mentality, as described here, is
for them entirely undigestible. The Byzantine culture of Serbia and the
Western culture of Croatia can never be reconciled in a common state
organization. Professor Oscar Halecki remarks that what separates the Croats
and the Serbs is not only religion. He writes: "Nowhere else in East Central
Europe did the antagonism between Western and Eastern cultural trends prove
stronger, even in the twentieth century." 22 Croatia and Serbia are two
worlds which will never fully understand each other, and which can live in
peace only when separated. In this respect, it may be important to mention
that despite the varied and deep differences between Croatia and Serbia,
there were no open clashes between them when they lived separated, each in
their own state. Mr. Vlaho Raic, speaking about this fact, writes: "On the
contrary, Tomislav (the first Croatian king, crowned in 925 A.D.) helped
Serbia to withstand Bulgaria; later some Croatian nobles went to Kossovo to
oppose, together with the Serbians, the Osmanli invasion... Only later when
the Serbs rushed into Croatian lands, escaping the Turks or as their rayahs,
their mutual intolerance manifested itself, and a deep antagonism of
interests, tendencies and mentalities came to the fore." 23 Nevertheless,
only after the creation of first Yugoslavia did these antagonisms receive
the character of a really permanent enmity, and a struggle started which is
apparently inherent in the very existence of a common Croatian-Serbian
state. Of course, the separation of Croatia and Serbia is not expected to
change by itself the Serbian character, but it will probably have an
important moral significance and be beneficial to Europe as a whole. It may
increase the amount of mutual tolerance in the Balkans, and it may prevent a
further "Balkanization" of Europe which is a real threat to the Western
democratic institutions and the Western mode of life.
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1 In the booklet On the Borders of the West, (Buenos Aires, 1952, p. 10-11),
the basic differences between the Croatians and the Serbians are described
in the following way: "Nature separated the Croats from the Serbs, because
the river Drina is not only the geographic boundary between Croatia and
Serbia, but is also from the oldest times (since the Roman Emperor
Theodosius in 395 A.D.) the dividing line between two civilizations and, as
some philosophers believe, of two worlds. The Croats and the Serbs belong to
different faiths, they use different alphabets, and belong to different, and
diametrically opposed cultural spheres. As early as the 9th C. the Croats
entered into the sphere of Western culture and, living in the closest
contact with the West, they collaborated and deeply experienced the whole of
the evolution of the Western Christian world. The Serbs, on the other hand,
fell under the spell of Byzantine standards, and became an integral part of
the Eastern cultural sphere."
2 Desimir Tosic, Srpski Nacionalni Problemi, (Paris: Ed. Oslobodenje, 1952),
P. 215.
3 Ibid., p. 212.
4 Ibid., p. 222-223.
5 The short-sighted and jingoistic Serbian politicians will never forgive
Cardinal Stepinac that as a Croatian he joined all his fellow Croatians in
their desire for the complete independence of their country. Though
condemning all acts of revenge and violence committed during the war,
Cardinal Stepinac has again and again defended the idea of an independent
Croatian state. Even at his "trial" in Zagreb Cardinal Stepinac stated the
following: "The Croatian nation unanimously declared itself for the Croatian
State and I would have been remiss had I not recognized and acknowledged
this desire of the Croatian people enslaved by the former Yugoslavia"
(Pattee, op. cit., p. 40.) Stepinac's courageous defense of Croatian
independence has provoked a great hatred for him in the hearts of Serbian
chauvinists, and this is one of the most important causes of their vicious
propaganda against him.
6 M. S. Milojevic, Odlomci iz istoriie Srba, (Beograd: 1872), p. 4.
7 A modern example of this kind of literature is the Serbian daily, The
American Srbobran, published in Pittsburgh, Pa., which from time to time
prints similar stories about an imaginary Serbian greatness.
8 Sima Lukic-Lukin, Srbi u davnini, (Zagreb: 1894), p. 232.
9 This song has become an inherent part of Serbian national heritage. Their
children must learn it by heart in the first grade of grammar school.
10 This King Peter was the grandfather of the present Serbian ex-King Peter.
11 The Byzantine infuences in Serbia are described by Mr. P.D. Ostovic in
his book The Truth About Yugoslavia, (New York: Roy Publishers, 1952, p.
105. ff.), as follows: "The Croats, Roman Catholics, followed the Western,
the Serbians, Greek Orthodox, followed the Eastern civilization of Europe.
Broadly speaking, Eastern civilization is totalitarian, the Western
democratic... The seed of the present East-West feud was sown sixteen
centuries ago, and the plant is still growing... The Roman Church became
supernational and universal. The Greek Church, though claiming universality,
split into independent national churches... Dissimulation, intrigues,
pretence and deceit were normal instruments of policy in Byzantine society,
and were taken up by those who inherited its traditions... in free Serbia,
corruption, violence and murder continued to be practiced..."
12 Dr. Sekula Drjevic, "Sumrak religije podvale," Hrvatski Narod, (Zagreb,
Sept. 24, 1944j.
13 Jozo Kljakovic, U suvremenom kaosu, (Buenos Aires, 1952), p. 311.
14 Tosic, op. cit., p. 204.
15 Herve Lauriere, Assasins au nom de Dieu, (Paris: 1951)
16 Avro Manhattan, Terror over Yugoslavia, (London: 1953)
17 Ibid., P. IX.
18 Terror over Yugoslavia is not exercised, according to Mr. Manhattan, by
the Communists and their secret police, but by the persecuted Catholic
Church and the Croatian fighters for freedom. In short, in this slanderous
book the victims have been portrayed as "terrorists," and the persecutors as
"victims."
19 In addition to nomadic Vlachs, the urban Tsintsars (Cincari) have
contributed a great deal to the shaping of Serbian national personality. The
Vlachs and Tsintsars are of the same mixed ethnic origin, and belong to the
same Orthodox religion which has largely facilitated their assimilation into
Serbian society. In Croatia, the members of the Serbian national minority
are, for the most part, of Vlach origin. The Tsintsars comprise the upper
social class in most Serbian cities, the so-called carsija. The Tsintsars
are best known as merchants and bankers. Because of their former status as a
more or less suppressed minority, the Vlachs and the Tsintsars have
developed many negative characteristics, which have gradually become, to a
great extent, an important part of Serbian national life. So is, for
instance, the carsija of Belgrade made up predominantly of Tsintsars who
have greatly affected Serbian political, cultural and economic developments.
According to a Serbian scholar, Mr. D. I. Popovic, the Tsintsars possess the
following characteristics: prudence, brightness, determination, materialism,
narrowness, hypocrisy, egotism, ambition, perfidy, cynism, cleanness, etc.,
(D. I. Popovic, O Cincarima, Beograd: 1937, and Hrvatska Enciklopedija,
Zagreb: 1942, vol. III, p. 771. ff.) This Tsintsar mentality has been an
indelible feature of the Serbian political life in the first and second
Yugoslavia. (See more about Vlachs and Taintears in: Dr. Vatroslay Murvar,
Hrvatska i Hrvati, "Croatia" Cult. Publishing Center, Chicago: 1953), and
Sava M. Stedimlija, Auf dem Balkan, Putovi, (Zagreb: 1943).
20 L v. Suedland, Jugoslavensko pitanje, (Zagreb: Matica Hrvatska, 1943), p.
183-184.
21 A typical example of this is a reputably looking but really scandalous,
pro-Tito book. published under the name of Yugoslavia and edited by a Mr.
Robert J. Kerner, (Berkely and Los Angeles: University of California Press:
1949). Mr. Leigh White calls it "a pro-Tito symposium" (The Balkan Caesar,
New York: Schribner's Sons, 1951, p. 51). In this half-scholarly and
half-propagandist book about Yugoslavia, truth is intertwined with
half-truths and un-truths, and even with the usual Serbian
misrepresentations and mystifications. Croatian viewpoints are disregarded.
Moreover, some of the misinformed authors had been probably unaware of the
fact that they were giving a onesided and untrue picture. In the selected
bibliography, Croatian works or books sympathetic to the Croatian people,
are, with few exceptions, conspicuously absent. Mr. Harry N. Howard, a
professor of history, in his "Chronology of Historical Evolution," declares
that the great Croatian poet Marko Marulic was "a Serbian (?) nobleman from
Split", that the Croatian poet Hanibal Lucic wrote Robinja, the oldest drama
in Serbian (?) literature, that the Croatian poet Petar Hektorovic is "a
Dalmatian poet", who wrote "in Serbian" (?), etc., etc. (p. 444.) All this
is just as fantastically untrue as if somebody in Croatia wrote that Mark
Twain was a great Mexican writer, and Shakespeare a great French dramatisfl?
There is hardly a single article in that book which is not under the
influence of some Serbian mystification. It is very deplorable that a
Serbian jingoism of a very vicious sort has found its way into this book,
published by such a reputable publisher. It is even more unfortunate that in
it Serbian chauvinism has been mixed, in some places, with an uncritical
glorification of Tito's undemocratic and Communist regime.
22 Oscar Halecki, Borderlands of Western Civilization, (New York: The Roland
Press Company, 1952), p. 402.
23 Vlaho Raic, Hrvatska i Srbija, (Buenos Aires, 1953), p. 17.
jimmy
Barry Marjanovich has dropped a bombshell. As an outsider unaware of the history of Serbia I and perhaps many like me will never know what is truth and what is false. I do hope Osama Bin Kenobi, Damian Martinovich, Truthseeker and Marko37 will do some research and if there are any quotes, references and findings to be false, do not hesitate to disprove them. By not responding intelligently to each point raised, the readers will not get the facts from the opposite side. It is time consuming but worthwhile in the interest of fairness.
jimmy
Barry Marjanovich
Barry Marjanovich
Open Letter To Western Politicians, Academics And The Media
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
1995
From: Joseph Glasnovich
Edmonton, Alberta
Canada
One of the most scandalous and disgraceful aspects to characterize the
recent wars in the former Yugoslavia has been the near-total historical
illiteracy of North American and European "scholars", politicians and
the media. Humbling as it may seem, those employed in the above
mentioned fields should reconcile themselves to the reality that they
know virtually nothing of the history of "Yugoslavia" since its creation
in 1918 ( a British scholar considered the leading historian in his field,
who shall remain unnamed, was honest enough to admit to me that
"here in Britain we know nothing east of the Rhine".)
In order to understand the tragic events of the past several years it is
all-important to be aware of some basic factors; without this there is no
relating cause to effect.
For one, the Serbs in royalist and communist Yugoslavia were the ruling and
privileged nation in the country and ran it with the help of the army and
police (the fact that some 80 percent of the officers in the armed forces
were Serbs prior to the breakup should alone indicate this). Secondly,
the Serbs are not indigenous to either Bosnia or Croatia; they were not
a significant factor in either until the 16th century, and in many areas
much later. Many Croatian Serbs can trace their ancestry to the at least
150,000 Serb colonists settled by Belgrade regime from 1918 to 1938 in a
deliberate attempt to Serbianize Croat territory, for example. Perhaps most
importantly, one must realize that the Serb rulers of Yugoslavia,
particularly its communist version, have systematically falsified history
for decades.
Royalist Yugoslavia was a bloody, Serb dominated tyranny in every sense of
the word. The Serbian regime in the first six months of 1919, in the Sandzak
region bordering Bosnia, destroyed 150 Moslem villages and massacred
some 1,200 inhabitants, while in 1924 in the same area the village of
Sehovici was razed to the ground and some 200 villagers, mostly women,
children and elderly, slaughtered. In Kosova during the period 1919-21
dozens
of Albanian villages were levelled by Serb artillery and those inhabitants
who survived were finished off by bullet and bayonet. The number of victims
according to Serb general staff documents, numbered 120,000 (the spread
of Serb hegemonism began with the massacre of at least 25,000 Alabanians
and Macedonians by Serb troops in 1912-13 as reported by the Carnegie
Commission, a fact thus far overlooked by most "scholars").
Between Jan. 6, 1929 and June 30, 1930 alone 76 Croats were murdered in
prison by Serb police. Amongst the hundreds of Croats killed by Serb
gendarmes and police agents up to WWII were the wife of future Croat
Minister Mile Budak (her body was tossed into a well) and the father
of the future General Maks Luburic (he was beaten unconscious and
thrown into a cell where he froze to death). It should be remembered
that all these and numerous other crimes were the result of Serbian state
terror and that they were committed IN PEACETIME. That's the sort of
"multi-ethnic harmony" which prevailed in the first Yugoslavia.
The most shameful aspect to characterize the historiography of the region
has been the Serb ("Yugoslav") falsification of World War II events and fact
that Western "scholars" and the media to this day parade Serb disinformtion
and propaganda (which even a cursory examination of long-available documated
evidence will debunk) as historical fact.
It is important to note that the communist movement in Yugoslavia was
overwhelmingly Serbian in character and composition. Even in nominally
Croatian Partisan units at least one quarter of the rank and file and most
of the officers and political commissars were Serbs (the commanders of all
four Partisan armies in 1945, Peko Dapcevic, Kosta Nadj, etc. were Serbs as
were some 70 percent of all division commaders, etc.). Serbs in general
embraced communism because they saw it as an instrument that would
allow them to enhance their position as the privileged and ruling nation
in the country. This is a singular phenomenon because no other nation
in Europe voluntarily opted for communist rule.
Nothing hightlights this fact better than this 1970 statistic: Zagreb's
population at the time was 92.7% Croatian and 2.1% Serb. Yet, the police
force in Zagreb was 56.6% Serb and 40.8% Croatian.
To digress, Serb troops and gendarmes were the first to massacre civilians
in WWII. At least 400 Croats were murdered before a SINGLE Serb was killed
by the Ustasa. The first incident took place as early as April 6, 1941, the
day the German assault began, when 43 Croats and the Rabbi of Tuzla, David
Albahari were murdered by Serb police in the town of Derventa.
The first to be "ethnically cleansed" was the Croatian village of Boricevac
(pop. 1,709). It was razed to the ground on July 31, 1941 by joint
Chetnik-Serb communist forces. Dozens, including 37 members of the Ivezic
family alone, were massacred. This was one of 23 Croat settlements
WIPED OFF THE MAP during the war, their inhabitants either killed
or forced to flee. In the town of Zrin (pop. 724) 206 were massacred
by Serb communist bands, in Spanovica (pop. 910) 286 inhabitants were
killed, in the village of Dubljani (pop. 325) in eastern Hercegovina 186
villagers were slaughtered in a single day etc. etc. On September 6, 1941
the largest massacre thus far took place in Kulen Vakuf where 1,306
Bosnian Moslems were murdered by Chetnik-Partisan units. These two
Serbian factions conducted joint operations prior to their falling out
in Decemeber 1941 and during the war, particularly in its final phase,
Chetnik units went over to the Partisan en mass to continue
the extermination of non-Serbs in the pursuit of Serbian hegemony.
Even some communists admit to first targeting civilians. Svetozar
Vukmanovic, chief organizer of the uprising in Bosnia admits that his
partisans "regularly plundered and murdered Moslem families"
and speaking to the insurgents at one point states: "With the extermination
of the Moslem and Croatian population in Bosnia you have brought
the uprising to a point of serious crisis...The Ustasas have suceeded
in forming the Black Legion, the most elite unit composed mostly
of Moslems and Croats who fled before your knife!" (Svetozar
Vukmanovic "Tempo", Revolucija Koja Tece, Belgrade 1977, Book
One, p. 243, 259). If one examines the INCONTROVERTIBLE FACTS,
there should be no doubt as to who first engaged in the killing of
non-combatants.
Contrary to still prevailing myths, it was the Moslem and Croat population
which fared worst during the war. Up to the end of April 1945 (that is, even
before the mass exterminations from May to September 1945) NO LESS
than 230,000 Moslem and Croat civilians and prisoners of war were
murdered by Serb royalist and communist forces (of the Communist victims,
the majority, some 80,000 were Catholic Croats). To cite several
documented instances: in Sriemska Mitrovica some 3,500 men and
boys, over 90% of the Croat male population were slaughtered by Serb
Partisan units in December 1944 and April 1945. Following the capture of
Travnik in October 1944 some 2,200 civilians and prisoners of war were
murdered over a three day period, in Virovitica 1,718 young, unarmed
Croatia recruits were massacred by the Partisans in April 1945. In
the district of Rogatica in eastern Bosnia (town and 123 in surrounding
villages) from 1941 to August 1944, 5,478 inhabitants, all Moslems
except for several hundred Croats, were butchered by the Chetniks, etc...
A total of 299 Croat Catholic priests were murdered by the communists up to
May 9, 1945, while a further 189 were killed up to the start of 1946 (how
many of you "scholars" and "think-tank experts" could name even one).
Dozens of Moslem religious leaders also shared the same fate (the Mufti
of Zagreb, Ismet Muftic was hanged on the door of his mosque, for example).
A British document dated May 11, 1945 (Report of the British legation
in the Vatican to Sir Anthony Eden, No. 88 60/22/45, Confidential,
entitled "Massacre of the Catholic priesthood in Slovenia, Croatia, Dalmatia
and Bosnia and Hercegovina") admitting that the figures are very incomplete
also states that in Slovenia 65 priests and 9 seminarians had been killed
thus far. It also details the immediate murder of 174 Croats following
the Partisan entry into Capljina Dubrovnik, Makarska and Ljubuski.
By Jan. 1945, 810 inhabitants of Ljubuski had been slaughtered by
the "Yugoslav" secret police, the OZNA. In addition, Patriarch
Germogen, the bishop of the Croat Evangelical and Protestant churches
and dozens of other clergymen were killed. A further 43 Croat Catholic
priests and 4 nuns were butchered by the Chetniks. It should be noted
that (the Soviet and Nazi regimes excepted) this is the most massive
extermination carried out against clergy in Europe in this century.
Yet despite these and other crimes Tito and his partisans continue
to be the darlings of Western historians and "intellectuals".
Serbian ("Yugoslav") manipulation of Western opinion and the media has been
so successful that one of the most massive crimes in European history
remains virtually unknown to this day. In May 1945, the bulk of
the Croatian army some 360,000 strong (active and reserve status:
230,000 of the former of which 70,000 rear-echalon and 130,000
of the latter including mostly men in the 35-45 years of age).
Of the overall total some 22% of the rank and file and 7% of the officer
corps were Bosnian Moslems) and some 61,200 civil police
accompanied by some 500,000 refugees, surrendered to British
and Bulgarian forces in Austria and Slovenia ( 27,584 Croat
troops and some 40,000 refugees were captured by Bulgarian forces near
Dravograd from May 7-14, for one see the Bulgarian official history).
Prior to the surrender of the main body to the British at Bleiburg on May
15, there were already in British hands in Austria some 70,000 Croat
soldiers and civilians. British documents make clear the size of the
migration involved. The daily report (May 13 of Nigel Nicolson, intelligence
officer to the First Guards Brigade reads in part: "Biggest element Croat
Ustashi Army, 300,000 strong" (Wo. 170/4465). Several thousand Croat troops,
having exhausted their ammunition, also fell into Partisan hands in Slovenia
and Croatia as did some 50,000 refugees. As of May 15, according to Partisan
documents, there were in camps in Croatia, mostly in Zagreb 50,506 POWs
roughly half of these being German and the rest Croat. ("Dispatch of the
Headquarters of the Yugoslav Army in Croatia to the General Staff of the
JNA on the number of prisoners in Croatia 15 May 1945" , No. 32). Of the
13,562 wounded prisoners which passed through the Precko camp in Zagreb in
May, June and July all except 156 were murdered.
As is known, following disarmament by the British and Bulgarians, soldiers
and civilians were turned over to the Partisans. From May to September 1945,
some 180,000 Croatian soldiers (including 34 generals, most without
even the benefit of a show-trial farce) and NO LESS than 50,000 civilians
were slaughtered by Serb Partisan units, often with the help of Serb
villagers.
This total includes some 30,000 wounded soldiers from hospitals in
Zagreb, Sisak, Vinkovci and elsewhere, and those murdered in trains
and transports in Slovenia.
According to hospital records, 5,460 badly wounded men left behind in Zagreb
hospitals alone were tossed onto trucks and killed on the banks of the Sava
or thrown into the Jazovka Chasm, which holds several hundred cubic feet of
bones and is estimated to contain the remains of
around 11,000 victims.
To gauge the scale of this genocide consider this: in Katyn and elsewhere
the Soviets killed some 12,000 Polish officers, while during a two-week
period in May-June 1945, some 40,000 Croat POWs were massacred
and their bodies dumped into the 7 km long anti-tank trenches near Maribor.
Of the 623 members of the Croat Domobran (regular Croatian Army)
officers' school killed that summer, most were murdered here together
with their commander, Liet. Col. Milan Ugarkovic. Only 196 of 719
candidates survived.
The second largest mass grave of POWs is in Kocevski Rog, Slovenia. What
happened there is best described by the man who orchestrated the killings,
former Partisan Major and Serb from Dalmatia, Sima Dubajic: "We knew
exactly how many there were: 29,000 Ustasi, 4,000 Ljotic's (anti-communist
Serbs) and no more than 3,000 Rupnik's (anti-communist Slovenians). I
received the order to kill them all in Kocevski Rog. The Massacre was
carried out by the XI Dalmatian Brigade (interview given in Nedeljna
Dalmacija 15.7.1990.) The eight day massacres were carried out in May-June
1945 by some 200 selected butchers, mostly Serbs. The prisoners were
transported to the execution site in twelve train loads of between ten and
twenty sealed boxcars. Amongst those murdered were some 200 Croat youths
between the ages 14-16. This massacre is detailed in N. Tolstoy's book "The
Minister and the Massacres" (London, 1986).
In May, June, and July the bodies of victims in their TENS OF THOUSANDS were
dumped into the Sava, Drava and other waterways. Many of these and other
victims, having been filmed and photographed ARE TO THIS DAY PASSED OFF AS
SERB VICTIMS OF THE USTASE. Even the communist press of the day makes it
clear who the murderers were. The Belgrade daily "Borba" on 14.5.1945
reports: "All day yesterday and the day before corpses floated down the
Sava; 82 were dragged out. All had been killed by a bullet to the temple.
They were clothed in the dress of the Srijem and Zagorje region and were
bound with wire around the upper arm and wrist" (that is in the classic
communist fashion). Is it necessary to point out that Srijem had been firmly
in Partisan hands since mid-April and that the dead were from solidly
Croatian areas?
The expulsion and extermination of the German minority in Yugoslavia is
exhaustively documented with some 80 major works on the subject alone (you
wouldn't know it from anything published in English thus far; so much for
"scholarship"): 11,350 civilians were murdered outright or died in transit,
6466 "disappeared" and 48,027, including thousands of children, died
or were killed in camps or on forced labour detail. Some 40,000 Hungarians
were massacred by the Serbs in the autumn of 1944 (for details see
"Titoist Atrocities in Vojvodina", Toronto, 1991), as were some 25,000
Albanians. In his "Selected Speeches And Articles", (Belgrade, 1951, p.47)
Aleksandar Rankovic, chief of secret police, even details the number of 200
Albanian recruits who were killed. At least 2,000 Montenegrin nationalists
were also murdered.
Mass murder, mostly without the benefit of even a show trial farce continued
up to 1951. In a speech to the Belgrade Parliament carried in the dailies
"Borba" and "Politika" of Feb 1, 1951, Rankovic boasted: "From 1945 to
1951 through our jails there passed 3,773,776 persons and we liquidated
568,000 enemies of the people." The last figure is well below the mark
and does not include tens of thousands of victims murdered at random
without indentification; the actual figure exceeds the 700,000
mark, nor does it include some 90,000 murdered German POWs. Roughly one
quarter of the country's population jailed or exterminated in six years,
such were the "multi-ethnic" foundations of the Communist Yugoslavia.
Death sentences were handed out virtually every day this period and many
were noted in the papers of the day. "Vjesnik" (29.5.1948) writes that in
Mostar, Vinko Pavkovic, Bozo Karadzic, Stanko Cavar, Mijo Bosnjak,
Slavko Naletilic and Ivan Pavkovic were sentenced to death. "Vjesnik"
(28.7.1948) writes that 43 death sentences were handed down in Zagreb.
"Vjesnik" (10.3.1949) states that four "criminals" of the Croatian Peasant
Party were sentenced to death.
On 28.9.1949 the same reports that Zvonko Kovacevic and Zivan Kuzevic were
sentenced to death etc., etc. Of course, the overwhelming majority of
murders were unreported. In August 1946 alone, 66 Croat prisoners in Sisak
jail were murdered by their Serbian guards in the most hideous fashion, all
being tortured before being shot or hanged; the youngest victim Grga
Stipancic was only 15 years old. In the district of Bihac, in the weeks
leading up to "elections", some 600 individuals were death-listed and
murdered by the OZNA, mostly under cover of night, etc.
AT THE VERY MOST 80,000 Serbs were killed in Ustasa reprisals or camps or in
various criminal incidents (this figure includes some 2,300 Serbs murdered
by the Bosnian Moslems of the 13 SS Division from March to November 1944,
mostly around Brcko and eastern Croatia, in retaliation for the massacres of
tens
of thousands of Bosnian Moslems by the Chetniks earlier in the war.) I have
no desire to defend killings carried out by Croat or Bosnian thugs. Every
nation has its hooligan elements.
Considering the circumstances it would be Utopian to expect a total absence
of such behaviour.
Many Serbs were tried and executed for murder and other terrorist acts. In
Partisan attacks on railway and other traffic some 20,000 civilians
including many women and children were killed. Similarly, thousands
of industrial objects, public buildings, schools, churches, etc., were
systematically destroyed in Partisan operations. Tito's Partisans were
opposed to the existence of an independent Croat state in any
form and were dedicated to the re-establishemnt of Yugoslavia under Serb
hegemony.
"Scholars" and the naive should disabuse themselves of the notion that the
Partisans were committed to fighting the "fascist occupier." Their sole aim
was the seizure of power by any means and the elimination of all real
or potential opposition. From 1941 to June 1945, the Partisans murdered
13,222 Slovenians while they killed a total of some 2,000 Germans and
Italians in military operations in Slovenia. This fact alone should speak
volumes.
Here let me stress that the figures I have cited for war and post-war
victims are the ACTUAL totals, having studied the subject for decades (you
"scholars", please, please don't waste peoples' time with demographic
studies a la the worthless works of Croat communist Vladimir Zerjavic).
Do some REAL homework and avail yourselves of the long-ago
documented facts. The victims deserve nothing less. Thus far on
the territory of former Yugoslavia 468 mass graves of Croat POWs and
civilians murdered during and immediately after WWII have been identified
and new ones are being discovered regularly. For example in July 1995, the
remains of 125 Croat soldiers murdered on May 18, 1945 were exhumed
from a pit near the town of Veliko Trgousce. Similarly, in Croatia alone
62 concentration camps were in operation in 1946. A note of interest:
at least 600 Croat POWs were killed in Jasenovac which was actively
in operation until 1947.
I emphasize this because the myth most influential in formulating Serbian
mentality this century has been the alleged murder of "hundreds of
thousands" of Serbs by the Ustasi. One of the primary reasons the recent
wars have been so brutal is due to the systematic falsification of history
and THE TIME HAS COME TO SAY: ENOUGH! An entire generation
of Serbs (and not a few "Yugoslavs") have been idiotized and poisoned
by pseudo-historians, propagandists and quasi-academics (The most
prominent English-language "work" on the subject is "Genocide In
Satellite Croatia" by one "Edmond Paris". Mr. "Paris' real name is Branko
Miljus a Serbian hate-monger. THE TIME HAS COME FOR THOSE IN
THE WEST TO STOP AIDING, ABETTING AND PERPETUATING EVIL.
STOP SERVING AS UNWITTING DUPES FOR SERBIAN PROPAGANDA
AND DISINFORMATION! Stop, also, for the sake of the Serbian people
themselves who continue to be deceived. The criminal disregard for
the truth, which is a betrayal of the victims must end. It's time to
dismantle the lies which have bred so much hate and which can set
the stage for new horrors.
No study would be complete without mention of the barbaric methods of the
partisan hordes. Standard practices included crucifixion, impalement,
drawing and quartering, and flaying or roasting victims alive. Lopping off
of noses, ears and sexual organs and the gouging out of eyes of living
victims was common behaviours. In his book "In Tito's Death Marches
and Extermination Camps" (New York, 1962) eyewitness Joseph
Hecimovic writes: "Horrifying events took place in the
Osijek camp.
The camp was one of the largest, whence the partisans shipped men in all
directions mostly for slaughter. While describing this camp, I have to
describe the sufferings of six Croatian officers whom I shall never
forget: three First Lieutenants Rajkovic, Bulic, Mordjin, all three
of the Sarajevo Railroad Battalion and the three Domobran
Second Lieutenants Kirpan, Nina and Cuturica. They were crucified on six
utility poles. Their hands were nailed over their heads. Their bodies were
tied with barbed wire. After this the partisans took five long pieces
of barbed wire and made a large ball. With it they beat the crucified
officers at will, throughout the day... The bodies hung there for six days."
Here is a glimpse of partisan behaviour as provided by one of their allies,
a British officer: "I spoke to the two sentries from 43 (Royal Marine)
Commando. They both looked a bit green about the gills. I asked
the Corporal why. "You see that mound over there, sir?" He pointed
to a long trench on the side of the hill which seemed to have been
recently dug and filled in. "The partisans came up here about an
hour ago and buried twenty five or so Germans."
"Were they all dead?"
"Yes sir- but it wasn't that - none of them had eyes or hands." (Donald
Hamilton Hill, SOE Assignment. London, 1973) Partisans and Chetniks
often shot victims like horses and forced them to crawl 'till exhausted
before butchering them. The father of present-day Croat General Mate
Daizda was dispatched in this fashion on a Sarajevo bridge in April 1945.
As a member of the Croatian Army I was wounded and captured by Serb
forces on May 4, 1992 (my leg was shattered by an armor piercing round
and is now some 4 cm shorter). Shortly after capture my left ear was cut
off.
Within minutes of arriving in the "old hospital" jail in Knin a man was
shot dead outside my cell. While being transported by truck to Banja Luka,
an eight hour trip in sweltering heat without water, blindfolded, with
other prisoners forced to kneel around me, one man was beaten
to death on top of me. Another man succumbed from his injuries next day.
During my one month stay in the "show case" camp Manjaca, men were still
being beaten and killed, despite the month old Red Cross presence. I will
never forget the night Omer Kapetanovic, Esad Bender and another inmate
unknown to me were kicked to death, in the typical Serb fashion by camp
guards.
On the night of 6-7 August a 23 bus column carrying some 1,300 starving,
brutalized and diseased survivors of the Omarska death camp (which probably
claimed 2,000 lives) arrived at Manjaca. En route, in the customary
fashion, the prisoners were forced to kneel while guards beat them
with iron rods, cables, boards and chains.
Those unfortunate to be knocked over were finished off. I was told at least
a dozen dead were thrown off en route. At Manjaca a further 40 prisoners
were killed, mostly with knives. These are some of the "highlights" of my
15 month captivity.
One fact which foreign affairs "experts" and "analysts" have not mentioned
thus far is that after elections in Croatia the "Yugoslav" army, under the
cover of night, seized 186,000 weapons from Croatian Territorial Defense
warehouses (weapons paid for by the people of Croatia) leaving the country
virtually defenceless. Prior to this the Serb minority in Croatia has been
clandestinely armed. In Bosnia this was done in the open with weapons by the
truck-loads being distributed. The Serbs also took the entire arsenal of the
"Federal" Army, the fifth largest in Europe with its 1,800 tanks and
armoured vehicles, tens of thousands of artillery pieces, etc. "Warring
parties" indeed.
I have to shake my head and smile when I hear the constant, parrot-like
media refrain of a pre-war Bosnia being a case study of harmonious
multi-ethnic relations. Most Moslems and many Croats had no sense of need
for identity and history, the result of decades of systematic Serbianization
in every aspect of life. All that time the wolf in the Serbian heart had
never been tamed and was waiting, ready to strike. Mr. Izetbegovic who
prides himself on being a Bosnian, will one day have to expain to how he
allowed a second genocide of his people to take place in this century. He is
on the record as saying that the "Federal" army would protect all Bosnians
(the murder of 18 elderly Croats in the village of Ravno in September 1991
by the "Yugoslav" army, the first war crime in Bosnia, was hushed up so as
not to incur Serb displeasure.) After all they were only Croats. The
"Yugoslav" secret police had been killing dozens of them in Western Europe
for years to no one's dismay.
When an Albanian officer prior to the war promised to ensure that the huge
stockpiles in Sarajevo would fall into Moslem hands Mr. Izetbegovic refused
the offer stating: "We will settle this peacefully." In a 1983 letter to an
American academic I wrote something I realized since I could walk: "The only
unrehabilitated imperialism in Europe outside the Soviet Union is Serbia
and its nature is such that it can only be eradicated through force of
arms."
Had you gone about your business properly, you would have known the bottom
line: Three of the most evil and destructive forces to appear in Europe this
century have been Communism, Nazism, and Serbian hegemonism. The last
mentioned, since 1912, has resulted in the deaths of some 900,000 Croats,
Moslems, Albanians, Macedonians, Montenegrans and members of
the German and Hungarian minorities (excluding the recent war in
Croatia and Bosnia) and the disposession of hundreds of thousands more.
In a round-about fashion I can also tell you what the future holds. The
Serbian people have destroyed their future for at least a generation. Can
someone who has destroyed over 1,000 mosques and Catholic churches
expect anything better?
It is safe to say that the Serbian people at present find themselves in a
state of moral bunkruptcy. One interesting statistic is that as late as 1993
three out of four Serbs were not baptized. The chances of genuine
democratization in any realm, due in large part to the idiotization
of the average Serb by his "intellectuals" and the cult known as
the Serbian Orthodox Church ("wherever there are Serbian
graves that is Serbian land") are non-existent. Crime, a long-standing
Serbian enterprise is rampant (the so-called slivovitz or plum-brandy
Mafia operating in West Germany is one Serbian contribution to
European cultural landscape) and the former colonies of Croatia and
Slovenia can no longer be milked.
Cracks are appearing in the Montenegrin-Serb relationship. I feel that the
Serbian people will experience a major catharsis in the near future, maybe
not in the form of a Hiroshima or a Reichstag but a socio-economic
implosion.
Politicians should be aware that the beast, literally and figuratively, is
still in Belgrade.
As you watch events unfold remember the maxim: "Tyrannies do not improve,
they perish."
Current President Of Serbia Is An Indicted War Criminal Milan
Milutinovic
http://www.interpol.int/Public/Wanted/Notices/Data/1999/12/1999_29612.asp
http://www.vido.ldh.org/images/serbia.jpg
http://www.dssrewards.net/english/warcrimes/warcriminals.html
http://www.hic.hr/books/greatserbia/index.htm
http://www.hic.hr/books/creation/index.htm
http://abcnews.go.com/reference/bios/milosevic.html
http://www.sps.org.yu/ljudi/smilosevic.html
http://www.cco.caltech.edu/~bosnia/history/supvii.html
http://www.dssrewards.net/english/warcrimes/milos.html
http://www.interpol.int/Public/Wanted/Notices/Data/1999/12/1999_29612.asp
> >
http://www.interpol.int/Public/Wanted/Notices/Data/1999/13/1999_29613.asp
> >
http://www.interpol.int/Public/Wanted/Notices/Data/1999/15/1999_29615.asp
> >
http://www.interpol.int/Public/Wanted/Notices/Data/1999/17/1999_29617.asp
> >
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/europe/newsid_1134000/1134969.stm
http://www.tamu.edu/upress/BOOKS/1997/cohen.htm
http://mirror.veus.hr/myth
http://mprofaca.cro.net/mainmenu.html
http://ds.dial.pipex.com/srebrenica.justice
> > sssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss
> > ORDINARY SERVS KILLED 250,000 PEOPLE!
> > sssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss
http://www.dssrewards.net/english/warcrimes/warcriminals.html
http://www.americanradioworks.org/features/kosovo/index.htm
http://www.sps.org.yu/eng/index-n.htm
ssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss
BBC
Friday, 6 October, 2000
Kostunica: "I won't hand over Milosevic"
"I am the president"
http://www.dssrewards.net/english/warcrimes/milos.html
ssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss
> > Excerpts:
> > The Guardian
> > Special report: Serbia
> > Martin Woollacott
> > Friday September 29, 2000
> >
> > Vojislav Kostunica does not differ much from
> > Milosevic on Serbia's right to Kosovo; on
> > the status of the Bosnian Serb entity,
> > Republika Srpska; or on the desirability of
> > Montenegro staying with Serbia.
> >
> > In choosing Kostunica in such large
> > numbers, it may be said that the Serbians
> > have voted for a clean Milosevic. They
> > voted for a man who has never said that
> > Serbia's objectives in the wars of the last
> > 10 years were wrong; who denies the
> > authority of the International War Crimes
> > Tribunal in The Hague; who considers
> > Nato intervention an outrage: and who
> > insists that Serbia will not be a vassal
> > state of the west.
http://www.geocities.com/compuserb_com/serbia.html
Dana
Croatian zealots like this psycho I see all over usenet feel it is necessary
to denigrate and put down Serbs and Serbia in order to promote some sense of
their own cultural pride? Why does their pride and nationalism depend so
heavily on promoting their superiority and supposed Serb inferiority? Is it
in order to validate themselves and their second-rate, wanna-be western
European nation? Pfft. As far as Croatian national identity and Croatian
nationalism is concerned, it seems endlessly ranting about their neighbours
and how much better than them they are is about as far as it goes. I would
go so far as to say that the virulent Croatian hatred of Serbs is a
pathological cultural characteristic entrenched deeply within their
collective psyche. Disturbing to say the least.
Every negative cultural characteristic the Serbs are charged with within
this verbose piece of Croatian claptrap propaganda, are exactly the
characteristics exhibited by Croats and other nationalistic who promote
garbage like this.
Have a nice day.
"Barry Marjanovich" <bmarja...@iprimus.ca> wrote in message
news:EDfh7.6345$Nn1.14...@news1.tor.primus.ca...
: http://www.vido.ldh.org/images/serbia.jpg
: army as invincible, the Serbian heroes as the greatest in the history of
:
: --------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
: ---------
:
:
:
:
Marko37
"jimmy" <an00...@anon.fun.ee> wrote
> Barry Marjanovich has dropped a bombshell. I do hope Osama Bin Kenobi,
Damian Martinovich, Truthseeker and Marko37 will do some research and if
there are any quotes, references and findings to be false, do not hesitate
to disprove them.
I don't know whether you realize that you just made a fool of yourself,
Jimmy. Apparently you're unaware of "Barry Spam Marjanovic"'s other works.
Maybe you should ask him how the Serbs got their name. That always makes me
laugh.
To cut the long story short, check his sources. I don't know how familiar
you are with the WWII and Croatia, as well as post WWII Croatian emigration,
particularly to South America (Argentina). "Barry" might have been quoting
"Mein Kampf" as well. I mean, the very idea of national character that is
the subject of this article, might give you a clue what kind of a man wrote
that.
If you have any particular questions, ask. Don't think that "Barry"'s BS
(and that does NOT stand for BombShell) is worth discussing, though.
PS It's not polite to quote the entire article, particularly of such size
and, khm, "quality", just to reply with few words. Next time, please cut any
irrelevant parts.
Barry Marjanovich
The Calgary Herald, March, 21, 1996:
CROATS MASSACRED AFTER 'ORGY OF BEATINGS'
****************************************************
In what they called the first-ethnic cleansing case in the former
Yugoslavia, prosecutors said Wednesday 261 Croats suffered an "orgy of
beatings" before being shot and dumped in a mass grave.
The November 1991 massacre of men and boys in the Croatian town of
Vukovar "was the beginning of what was later to be known as ethnic
cleansing," prosecutor Grant Niemann told the UN war-crimes tribunal.
He referred to the widespread murder, rape and torture to force ethnic
groups out of occupied territory.
When the Serb tormentors tired of punching, kicking and clubing the
victims, fresh troops were called in to continue the assualt, the
prosecutors said.
Three Yugoslavian (Serbian) army officers were charged in November with
crimes against humanity for allegedly directing the slaughter. But Serbia
has refused to surrender them for trial, leading to Wednesday's hearing
before a three-judge tribunal panel.
The tribunal is expected to issue an international arrest warrant for the
three and report Serbia to the UN Security Council for failing to arrest
them in breach of the U.S. brokered peace accord.
The three officers charged in the case, former colonel Mile Mrksic,
former captain Miroslav Radic and former major Veselin Sljivancanin, are
believed to be at large in Serbia.
The victims were seized from Vukovar hospital in November 1991, after a
three-month Serbian seige of the town. They included wounded men, boys
and Croatian militiamen who had taken refuge, the prosecutors said.
They were subjected to "an orgy of beatings" by Serbian paramilitary
forces at the Yugoslavian army barracks in Vukovar and at a farm in
nearby Ovcara, tribunal investigator Dennis Milner said.
"At least two of the individuals...were described as having been beaten
to death," Milner said, citing testimony from witnesses, including a man
who escaped from a truck carrying victims to a field where they were shot
dead.
"It was quite indescribable in terms of horror."
http://www.vido.ldh.org/images/serbia.jpg
Bogoljub Perunicic
Please be notified that there are in today's state of Croatia the three ethnic
groups that do not count themselves Croats. They are Istrians, Dalmatians, and
Raguzans. Official Croatian propaganda talks about them as of Croatians that
has no historical background at all.
They are quite different people of European manners and culture and do not share
the hatred you could read about on the Usenet.
Sincerely yours,
Bog Perun
"Dana" <blahg...@grrr.net> wrote in message news:<3b86...@news.iprimus.com.au>...
bmarja...@iprimus.ca
(Just another hiding serv) servs...
>
>Greetings to my fellow SERVS!
>Dear Dana,
Current President Of Serbia Is An Indicted War Criminal Milan Milutinovic
http://www.interpol.int/Public/Wanted/Notices/Data/1999/12/1999_29612.asp
http://www.vido.ldh.org/images/serbia.jpg
http://www.hbk.hr/crkve/eindex.html
http://www.geocities.com/compuserb_com/serbia.html
>Serving yours,
>
>Bog Perun
bmarja...@iprimus.ca
Servian "Bloody Priest" - Chetnik Momcilo Djujic
ssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss
Background
Momcilo Djujic was born on Feb. 27, 1907 in the village of Kovacic in
Croatia, near the town of Knin. After graduating from high school in Knin
in 1924, he attended a school of higher education in Sibenik, and then
entered the Serbian Orthodox theological seminary in Sremski Karlovci in
1929. Ordained in 1933, he served as village priest in Strmica, a small
Serb community a few kilometers north of Knin, and began participating in
local Chetnik activities as early as 1935, when the first armed
associations or groups were founded in the surrounding area. [1]
[1] Popovic; "Nasa Rec, monthly political and literary review (Middlesex,
England), No. 402/XLII (Feb 1989), pp.9-11.
Politically, Djujic gravitated toward the extreme right of the
nationalistic Chetnik "Greater Serbia" movement which, in its present
form, is responsible for most of the horrors in former Yugoslavia today,
and by 1941 he was an ardent supporter and follower of Dimitrije Ljotic,
who led the fascist, pro-Nazi, anti-semitic "Zbor" Party in Belgrade,
which was closely allied to the Chetnik movement. These fascist leanings
greatly facilitated Djujic's initial contacts with the Italian occupation
forces in April 1941 and his willingness to put his Chetniks at their
disposal two months later. [2]
[2] Ibid: pp. 12-17.
The first armed Chetnik groups in the Knin area gradually evolved into
companies, battalions and regiments, and at the end of February 1942 the
Dinarske Chetnik Division was formed by Djujic to exercise command and
control over this rapidly growing force. [3]
[3] Ibid: p.84.
The World War II Chetniks under the overall command of Draza Mihailovic
were Serbian nationalist fanatics devoted to the goals of a "Greater
Serbia", meaning the annexation of major portions of Bosnia-Herzegovina
and Croatia by force of arms. Hiding behind the facade of a pro-Allied
guerrilla army called the Yugoslav Army in the Fatherland, they
collaborated openly with the Italian and German occupation forces in
former Yugoslavia against Tito's Partisans, but their principal enemies
were the Muslim and Croatian populations in the territories marked for
annexation as part of "Greater Serbia." These populations were massacred
and driven from their homes in a ruthless campaign that began with the
very first day of the war on April 6, 1941. In north and central Dalmatia,
in Croatia, Djujic's Chetniks "...massacred Croat civilians, plundered
their homes and set fire to whole villages." [4]
[4] Ostovic, P.D. The Truth About Yugoslavia. New York: Roy Publishers,
1952. pp. 219-225.
Djujic did not shrink from putting his genocidal instructions on paper. A
copy of secret order No. 22, issued by the headquarters of his Dinarske
Chetnik Division on March, 1942, was found near Knin on the body of one of
his senior officers that read in part: "...The aim of this division is to
establish complete Serb domination in these parts. At the most opportune
moment liquidate the Croats, Catholics and Muslims. Cleanup must include
Lika, northern Dalmatia and Bosnia-Herzegovina so that a completely
Orthodox state with Serbia and Montenegro may be realized." [5]
[5] Benkovic, Theodore. The Tragedy of a Nation. [Booklet, n.d.], p.40.
By March 1943, Djujic's notoriety as a war criminal and genocidist had
reached such proportions within the Western camp that Ilija Jukic, a
senior Croatian representative with the pro-Allied Yugoslav government in
exile in London, which exercised nominal control over Mihailovic's Chetnik
forces in the homeland, was forced to go to the Premier and recommend that
"Mihailovic disown Jevdjevic and Djujic, the two Chetnik commanders most
under attack for collaboration with the Italians and massacres of Croats
and Muslims." [6]
[6] Jukic, Ilija. The Fall of Yugoslavia. New York: Harcourt, Brace,
Jovanovich, 1974. p.163.
With the preceding background on the time, the place and the individual,
the specific crimes charged to Momcilo Djujic can be better understood in
their historical context. The atrocities noted below include only those
that have been attributed directly to Djujic or his troops under his
command. Those, and there are many, that are generally classified as
"probably" or "possibly" the work of Djujic have been omitted, as well as
other crimes where only a few victims were involved.
CHARGES AGAINST MOMCILO DJUJIC:
*****************************
April 15-30, 1941
-----------------
Chetniks, most or all of whom were under Momcilo Djujic, killed around 100
Croatians in the vicinity of Knin, Grahovo and Sinj and burned some 100
houses. An estimated 16 people were murdered on the roads outside of Knin.
Djujic's Chetniks were already cutting off the ears, hands, feet and
women's breasts of their victims, even at this early stage in the course
of events. One of these atrocities occured at Ervenik, 25 kilometers
northwest of Knin. Chetniks rounded up 30 Croatians, tied them, and took
them to a meadow where they were slaughtered and then thrown into a deep
fissure in the rocks that are common in that area. [7]
[7] Omrcanin, Ivo. Istina o Drazi Mihailovicu. Munich-New York:
"Logos"-Verlag, 1957. pp.100 and 107.
August 1, 1941
---------------
Chetniks from Dalmatia belonging to the Momcilo Djujic group murdered 30
Croatians in Bosanska Krupa on the Una River in Western Bosnia. [8]
[8] Ibid: p.114.
August 1, 1941
---------------
In the vicinity of Knin, 30 captured Croatian Domobran (regular Croatian
Army) troops and Gendarmes were butchered by the Chetniks. [9]
[9] Gabelica, Ivan. Letter to the editor, "START" magazine, Zagreb, Oct.
5, 1990. pp.4-5.
October 7, 1941
----------------
All 7 members of the Croatian Ivankovic family were murdered by Djujic
Chetniks during the night in Ervenik, 25 km northwest of Knin. [10]
[10] German Embassy Zagreb report, in: U.S. National Archives, Microcopy
T-120 (Records of the German Foreign Office Recieved by the Department of
State), roll 3980, frame E049829.
December 20, 1941
------------------
Djujic Chetniks raided the Croatian village of Stikovo, 18 km southeast of
Knin, and slaughtered several of the people who were captured. A Croatian
Gendarmerie corporal had his ears cut off and was then slain. They
gouged out the eyes of another victim with their knives and cut off
breasts of 40-year old Mari Vujovic, whose 9-month old baby was then given
the severed breasts to suckle. Another victim, a young girl, had her
fingers cut off before she was finally killed. [11]
[11] Omrcanin, p.107.
Mid-April, 1942
----------------
Chetniks from the "Kocic" Detachment under the command of Uros Drenovic,
which was a component of Djujic's Dinarske Division, burned down a number
of Muslim villages around Mrkonjic Grad in Central Bosnia and slaughtered
many people. In the Village of Grad about 70 people perished, 18 of them
being jammed into one house and then burned alive. In another nearby
village, Dabrac, 50 people were burned alive and 60 more in Podgora. In a
single day some 4,000 structures were burned down in the Janj district, of
which 1,300 to 1,400 were dwellings. [12]
[12] Ibid: p.145.
Beginning of May 1942
----------------------
Bruno Ivanovic and his assistant named Radic, two Partisans who had been
sent to the Knin area to help organize the communist political apparatus
in the region, were caught by Chetniks under the command of Momcilo Djujic
and savagely tortured before they were killed. [13]
[13] Jelic-Butic, (Dr.) Fikreta. Cetnici u Hrvatskoj 1941-1945. Zagreb:
Globus, 1985. p.125.
End of June 1942
-----------------
Following a successful campaign against Partisan forces around Knin that
concluded on June 26, Chetnik MVAC (Anti-Communist Volunteer Militia - the
Italian name for Chetnik auxiliaries) units under Momcilo Djujic occupied
all of the villages in the Knin Valley and began committing atrocities.
The village of Mokro Polje, 21 km northwest of Knin, was burned down,
furniture, livestock and other personal property looted, and all families
thought loyal to the Partisan cause were massacred. Those slaughtered were
predominately Serb Orthodox rather than Croatian. [14]
[14] Popovic, p.145.
CHARGES AGAINST MOMCILO DJUJIC:
*******************************
October 1, 1942
----------------
Around 6:30 in the morning, Djujic Chetniks from Omis under their own and
Italian officers advanced on the villages of Gata, Naklice, Zvecanje and
Cisla. On the road approaching Gata they encountered 6 young women who
were raped and then killed. In Gata the houses were burned down and the women,
children, old people and men butchered. According to information gathered
a few days later, 85 people were massacred in Gata and nearly all of the
houses burned down, in Zvecanje around 20 were killed and many houses set
on fire, in Cisla 18 people were murdered and many houses burned, and in
Naklice one person was killed and one house set on fire. [15]
[15] Popovic, p. 170.
October 10-20, 1942
--------------------
During Operation "Dinara", a large-scale Italian offensive to clear the
Partisans from Central Dalmatia and Bosnia, Chetnik auxiliaries under
Momcilo Djujic carried out a punative expedition in the villages of Gata,
Tugari and Ostrvice, all of which lie along the road between Bosansko
Grahovo and Livno. With the wholehearted support of Italian officers and
Serbian Orthodox priests, 190 men, women and children were slaughtered. A
total of 19 Croatian villages were burned down with all of the people
being roasted alive in their homes during the course of the operation. The
school was put to the torch in one village and all of the students and
teachers perished in it. [16]
[16] Ibid: p.169
October 21, 1942
-----------------
A force of 960 Chetniks under the command of Momcilo Djujic entered the
village of Bitelica and proceeded to torture and slaughter all Croatians
found there. At least 29 people were hacked to pieces, had their throats
slit, eyes gouged out, torn limb-from-limb, thrown alive into fires, etc.
The names of the 29 victims along with the nature of death for each are
given in the source. [17]
[17] Ibid: p. 179.
January 14, 1943
-----------------
In the early evening hours the 2nd and 3rd Licka Brigades of the Partisan
6th Licka Division attacked the town of Gracac in Northern Dalmatia, which
was defended by elements of the Italian "Sassari" Infantry Division and a
large force of Chetniks, including 2,000 Chetniks from Herzegovina under a
Captain Tomasevic, and 800 Chetniks from the regiments "Kralj Aleksandar"
under Brane Bogunovic and "Kralj Petar II" under mane Rokovic, both of
which belonged to Djujic's Dinarske Division. The fighting was bitter, but
the attack failed due to the numerical superiority of the Chetnik forces.
Of the 80 Partisans taken prisoner, all except two were horribly tortured
to death by the Chetniks. A Croatian Partisan, Stipe Spehar, received a
special treatment from the Chetniks. Already badly wounded from the
fighting, the Chetniks dragged him through the center of Gracac while
cutting him to shreds with their knives, being careful not to end his
suffering with a fatal slice, and all the while applauding in mock
celebration the "brotherhood and unity" of the Serbian and Croatian
people. Only two of the prisoners were released alive, supposedly
because "they were misguided youths." [18]
[18] Ibid: pp.222-225.
January 25, 1943
-----------------
During operations east of Knin, Chetniks belonging to the Dinarske
Division captured and shot 8 Partisans, all of whom probably belonged to
the 3rd Dalmatian Brigade. [19]
[19] Ibid: pp.229-230.
January 26, 1943
-----------------
On this Thursday 1,200 Chetniks from Momcilo Djujic's Dinarske Division
carried out an early morning attack on the Croatian villages of Maovice,
Batalici, Skorupi, Kijevo, Kozore, Vinalic, Garjak, Jezevic and Vrlika,
all of which lie to the southeast of Knin. The objective was to slaughter
as many Croatians Catholics as possible before the Italians found out and
put a stop to it. As soon as they arrived in Maovice, the massacre began:
one man had his eyes gouged out and his hands chopped off; childern were
thrown alive into burning houses; in one spot alone 13 people were
butchered with knives. At least 60 people were killed in Maovice in such
ways, although the number may have been as high as 80. The Chetniks then
marched to Vrlika where another 55 were massacred. They raised the Serbian
flag on the local Catholic church and began slaughtering those villagers
they could lay their hands on - again, many people were thrown alive into
fires. Among the victims were Jovo Postar, who was burned alive, Mica
Erdelez and Serja Konjevod. Then the Chetniks moved on to Kozore and
Kijevo where the scenes were repeated. Investigators later reported that
perhaps another 150 people perished in Kijevo. [20]
[20] Ibid: p.232; German Plenipotentiary General in Zagreb report No.
277/43 (secret), Feb. 8, 1943, in: National Archives Microcopy T-501
(Records of German Field Comands: Rear Areas, Occupied Territories, and
Others), roll 265, frames 771-772.
February 25, 1943
------------------
Chetniks belonging to Momcilo Djujic's Dinarske Division captured and shot
27 men and 17 women in the villages of Ocestovo on the premise that they
were Parisans or suspected Partisans. [21]
[21] Popovic, p.249.
March 20, 1943
---------------
Chetniks under the orders of Momcilo Djujic rounded up 18 Partisans from
Gracac and the surrounding area. Among the prisoners were several very
senior members of the Communist Party District Committee in Gracac.
Following their capture, they were taken to the village of Krupa where
they were savagely tortured while under interrogation. They were then
"sentenced" to death and taken to Vucjak in the Velebit Mountains where
they were all shot. [22]
[22] Ibid: p.248, Cubrilo, Djordje. "Napad cetnika na KK KPH za Gracac u
Cerovcu i pozadinske ustanove u Bruvnu", in: Kotar Gracac u NOR-u
1941-1945. Karlovac, 1984. pp.841-845.
CHARGES AGAINST MOMCILO DJUJIC:
*******************************
Early April 1943
-----------------
On the orders of Momcilo Djujic, over 1,000 innocent people, including
women and children, were taken to a recently opened Chetnik concentration
camp at Kosovo, 10 km south of Knin, to be incarcerated, tormented and
eventually killed. A hundred or so were taken to a nearby gully shortly
after their arrival and shot, but many of them were tortured first. Some
of these and many of those who followed were placed in a heavy wooden
barrel that had been reinforced with additional steel hoops. Long nails
with sharpened points had been driven through the sides of the barrel. The
victims were then rolled down a steep slope several hundred meters long
for the pleasure of their tormentors, screaming and shrieking in agony all
the way down. Nearly all of those afforded this "amusement park ride" bled
to death by the time they reached the bottom of the slope. In all, more
than 1,000 people are known to have perished in this camp. [23]
[23] Popovic, pp.248-249.
Beginning of April 1943
------------------------
On the orders of Momcilo Djujic, two groups of wounded Partisans from the
1st Licke Brigade were executed in the Velebit Mounains in north-central
Dalmatia around April 3. Before being shot, all were horribly tortured,
especially several Croatians who had served with the Partisan Battalion
"Matija Gubec." [24]
[24] Ibid: p.248.
May 1-2, 1943
--------------
Advancing to the southeast from Knin with 8,000 Chetniks, Momcilo Djujic's
Dinarske Division swept along the Livanjsko Plateau toward Livno, scouring
the villages for Partisans and their supporters. About a dozen men sick
with typhus were found in several villages, and these were all tortured
and then shot on Djujic's orders near the village of Bastasi. [25]
[25] Ibid: p.254.
September 12-13, 1943
----------------------
Turning on his benefactor, Djujic and his Chetniks helped the Germans
round up Italians in Dalmatia who had surrendered on Sep. 8, the date of
Italy's capitulation and witthdrawal from the war. Near Vrpolje, 50 km
northeast of Split, 13 Italians were caught trying to flee the net and all
were murdered on Djujic's orders. [26]
[26] Ibid: p.272.
December 7, 1943
-----------------
Following the capture of Livno on the previous day, Chetniks under
Momcilo Djujic massacred 170 men who had been taken prisoner during the
fighting or rounded up in and around Livno. Most of these slaughtered were
Partisans from the 1st Air Base Command that had been set up shortly before
in Livno, and from the 19th Dalmatian Division which had tried to defend the
town and airfield. The Chetniks' own after-action report on this incident,
filed on Dec. 17, stated that they had killed 93 Partisans in battle and
taken 182 prisoners, of which 179 were slaughtered after three Serbs were
let go. [27]
[27] Ibid: pp.309-310; Omrcanin, p.173.
December 14, 1943
-------------------
In a fierce engagement in the village of Strmica to the north of Knin,
Chetniks under Momcilo Djujic slaughtered 14 Croatian Partisans who had
been taken alive in the fighting. On the same day or the next, other
Partisans from this group were encountered and engaged near Ticevo, 51 km
northeast of Knin, while they were attempting to withdraw into the
mountains. Djujic's Chetniks captured and slaughtered 28 of them. [28]
[28] Popovic, pp.312-313.
July 21, 1944
---------------
>From a broadcast over Partisan radio, which was Allied-controlled and
located in Southern Italy:
"Our authorities have established that an American pilot baled out over
Kosovo Polje near Knin in Croatia. This territory is controlled by Chetnik
leader Djujic who collaborates with the Germans. By order of the Chetnik
commander of the Brigade "Simo Radic" American aviators are to be killed.
The murder of the American pilot was carried out by the known cut-throat
Milan Matijevic, who finished him off by crushing in his skull with a
stone. Milan Matijevic and Simo Radic have been placed on our official
list of war criminals." [29]
[29] Ibid: p.342.
End of July 1944
-----------------
British intelligence reported that Chetniks belonging to the Kistanje
Brigade, located 28 km southwest of Knin under Chetnik Lt. Simo Radic,
murdered two English parachutists. Although not specified in the report,
these were presumably aircrew from a disabled plane. [30]
[30] Ibid: p.342.
CONCLUSION
-----------
For those who have read through this sickening list of atrocities and
related crimes there can be only one conclusion: something is wrong in
Washington. Since 1979 the Justice Department's Office of Special
Investigations has spent more than $60-million taxpayer dollars pursuing,
denaturalizing, extraditing and deporting teenage concentration camp
guards and minor Nazi propagandists, few of whom were ever proven to have
been directly responsible for specific war crimes. Yet, Mr. Momcilo
Djujic, charged with direct and even personal participation in some of the
most disgusting atrocities of the Second World War, has been intentionally
given a free pass by our Justice Department. Why? What are the
justifications behind this inaction? At a time when the United Nations, at
the instigation of the U.S. government, prepares for international war
crime trials for those charged in the current war in Bosnia and
Herzegovina, one of the last major war criminals of World War II
comfortably resides in California a free man.
sssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssCCCCsssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss
evil
http://www.vido.ldh.org/images/serbia.jpg
T. Autischer
history and are ancient european ethnic groups.
Bogoljub Perunicic wrote:
> Dear Dana,
>
> Please be notified that there are in today's state of Croatia the three ethnic
> groups that do not count themselves Croats. They are Istrians, Dalmatians, and
> Raguzans. Official Croatian propaganda talks about them as of Croatians that
> has no historical background at all.
>
> They are quite different people of European manners and culture and do not share
> the hatred you could read about on the Usenet.
>
> Sincerely yours,
>
> Bog Perun
>
--
I keep trying to lose weight but it always finds me.
jimmy
an00...@anon.fun.ee says...
>
>In article <EDfh7.6345$Nn1.14...@news1.tor.primus.ca>,
bmarjanovich@iprimus.c
It appears that the members of warring factions in Balkans (Serbs, Bosnians,
Croatians, Albanians, Macedonians and others unknown to outside world) have one
thing in common, powerful tongs as we listen in their speeches and writings.
When outside world hears their accusations against each other, their
accusations against those who wish to impose solutions because they (the
warring factions) are only interested in a solution to benefit their own
faction at the expense of other factions, their wishful thinking of everything
to be winners, their living in the past and closing eyes to the changing world
and need for changes to better their lives (cooperation with outside world,
co-existence in a multi-ethnic world where ethnic race and prejudice is self
destructive).
What is more surprising that living in western world, specially in USA, Canada,
Britain, France, Germany etc. for few generations has not changed their
behavior of race hatred towards other ethnic communities that they have been
hating for generations going back to hundreds of years or may be thousands of
years.
I am still waiting for Osama Bin Kenobi, Damian Martinovich, Truthseeker and
Marko37 to refute every allegation made in the article posted by Barry
Marjanovich. He did not write it. If it was his writing, who cares because 99%
of people in this NG like to put down other ethnic races, some calling them
whores, pimps, dogs etc. etc. The article posted by him seems to be written by
scholars who know the history of Balkans but then again, no one knows what is
true and what is false. So please do us a favor by disproving if any argument
put forward in the article is false.
jimmy
jimmy
>
>>PS It's not polite to quote the entire article, particularly of such size
>>and, khm, "quality", just to reply with few words. Next time, please cut any
>>irrelevant parts.
>
Lame excuse for faliure to respond. You are too lazy to read and do
some research to respond appropriately knowingly well that the article rightly
or wrongly affects the image of you and your ethnic race.
jimmy
gorjan
> Oh, you forgot Trnjans, Maximirians and especially Pescenicians which all have rich
> history and are ancient european ethnic groups.
Hey, what about Dubravanians? :) Or even Sesvetians.
Barry Marjanovich
Srebrenica: 'A triumph of evil'
August 2, 2001
Mladic and Karadzic are the U.N.'s most wanted war crimes suspects
By CNN's Graham Jones
LONDON, England (CNN) -- It is now remembered as the worst atrocity in
Europe since World War II.
In a five-day orgy of slaughter at Srebrenica in July 1995, 7,500 Muslims
were systematically exterminated in what was described at the U.N. war
crimes tribunal as "the triumph of evil."
What made it worse was the genocide took place in what had been designated a
U.N. "safe area" three months earlier.
A judge at The Hague tribunal was later to describe what happened in
Srebrenica as "truly scenes from hell written on the darkest pages of human
history."
Thousands of Bosnian Muslims had sought refuge in the spa town of Srebrenica
in 1995 as the Serb army marched towards them.
They were protected by just 100 lightly-equipped Dutch peacekeepers -- who
proved no match for the advancing, heavily-armed Serb army.
Denied reinforcements, the Dutch were forced to stand aside while Serb
troops intent on "ethnic cleansing" did their worst -- the peacekeepers even
witnessing the summary execution of civilians.
In the days before the onslaught, 30,000 Muslims fleeing the advancing Serb
army were crammed into the town. Within days there was not one Muslim left.
A great number fled -- only for many of them to be wiped out in Serb
ambushes -- but the men who stayed fared the worst.
Thousands of men and boys as young as 10 were rounded up and murdered. Those
who tried to hide in their homes were, according to evidence at the trial of
Serb General Radislav Krstic at The Hague in March, 2000, "hunted down like
dogs and slaughtered."
Serbian TV footage shows woman and children being separated from the men and
put on buses.
In a sickening show of "reassurance" Serb commander-in-chief General
Ratko Mladic -- now on the war crimes tribunal's most wanted list with
political leader Radovan Karadzic -- told the women everyone would be bussed
out and safely reunited.
When the cameras were turned off the real face of the Serb army emerged as
the slaughter began.
More than 60 truckloads of refugees were taken from Srebrenica to execution
sites where they were bound, blindfolded, and shot with automatic rifles.
Mladic reassured residents of Srebrenica
Some of the executions were carried out at night under arc lights.
Industrial bulldozers then pushed the bodies into mass graves.
Some were buried alive, a French policeman who collected evidence from
Bosnian Muslims, Jean-Rene Ruez, told The Hague tribunal in 1996.
He gave evidence that Serb forces had killed and tortured refugees
at will. Streets were littered with corpses, he said, and rivers were red
with blood. Many people committed suicide to avoid having their noses, lips
and ears chopped off, he said.
Among other lurid accounts of mass murder, Ruez cited cases of adults being
forced to kill their children or watching as soldiers ended the young lives.
"One soldier approached a woman in the middle of a crowd," he said. "Her
child was crying. The soldier asked why the child was crying and she
explained that he was hungry. The soldier made a comment like, 'He won't be
hungry anymore.' He slit the child's throat in front of everybody."
Later it was revealed that Mladic had been able to press on unhindered by
issuing ultimatums to the U.N. protection force.
It was suggested the U.N. high command had promised to stop air strikes
against the Serb army in return for the release of 370 U.N. soldiers held
prisoner -- and Mladic took this as the green light to attack Srebrenica.
The Commander of the Dutch U.N. troops, Col. Thomas Karremans, told The
Hague tribunal in 1996 that he had first requested NATO air strikes when
Mladic's troops began their assault on July 6, but that the request was not
granted until July 11 when Srebrenica fell. By then, Karremans said, it "was
too late and too little."
Karremans said a long Serb blockade before the attack had left the lightly
armed Dutch battalion desperately short of food and fuel, but requests for
fresh supplies went unheeded.
In 1999 the U.N. admitted its error in expecting 100 Dutch troops to deter
the Serb army.
--
Slobodna Dalmacija
2000-09-18
"My three sons fought in the Croatian Liberation War."
http://www.kakarigi.net/croatia/news/dossier/eng/index.html
"I cannot allow Racan to talk about democracy because
that would be the same as a whore talking about chastity"
- pointed out Skeljo.
Ivica Racan is a former Secretary General of Yugo-slave
Communist Party. http://www.vido.ldh.org/images/serbia.jpg
Barry Marjanovich
servsssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssservs
"Lying is a form of our patriotism and is evidence of our innate
intelligence. We lie in a creative, imaginative, and inventive way."
Dobrica COSIC - former president of self-styled Yugo-slave-ia
and a Member of Serb Academy of Arts and Sciences, referring
to the Serbian nation.
servsssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssservs
ORDINARY SERVS KILLED 250,000 PEOPLE!
servsssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssservs
http://www.vido.ldh.org/images/serbia.jpg
Damian Martinovich
: I am still waiting for Osama Bin Kenobi, Damian Martinovich, Truthseeker
and
: Marko37 to refute every allegation made in the article posted by Barry
: Marjanovich. He did not write it. If it was his writing, who cares because
99%
: of people in this NG like to put down other ethnic races, some calling
them
: whores, pimps, dogs etc. etc. The article posted by him seems to be
written by
: scholars who know the history of Balkans but then again, no one knows what
is
: true and what is false. So please do us a favor by disproving if any
argument
: put forward in the article is false.
:
: jimmy
:
?
marjanovich is a complete nut case, either you really are quite new to this
newsgroup, or you are a troll waiting for barry to return from holidays,
marjanovich is an embarrasment, i often wonder if he/she is a serbian spy,
making croats appear like neo nazi fruitcakes, why argue with a peasant who
throws manure around, its a bit like arguing with amigo.
Barry Marjanovich
Mon., Oct. 05, 1998
(Special Section: Balkan News )
Ethnic Albanian Baby Survives Recent Massacre
PRISTINA -- (Reuters) Kosovo Albanian villagers
have shown journalists a baby girl they said was the only
survivor of a massacre of women, children, old people
and men last month.
They said Diturie Delija, aged six weeks, had been
discovered by her father covered in her dead mother's
blood near Gornje Obrinje, central Kosovo, a journalist
from Sweden's Expressen newspaper said on Sunday.
"Her father told us he thought she was dead until he saw
an eye move," Johanne Hildebrandt told Reuters. "We
were told her brother and sister had also been killed in the
massacre."
A Reuters journalist saw 16 bodies, at least 10 of them
children, women or old people, shot dead or with their
throats cut. The bodies included that of another baby
belonging to the Delija family called Valmira. Local people
said Serb troops had surrounded the village and killed
them after finding their hiding place.
The baby girl was being cared for by relatives in another
village not far away, Hildebrandt said. "They said they
were worried about the baby because they only had cow's
milk to give her now that her mother is dead."
http://www.vido.ldh.org/images/serbia.jpg
satansssssssssssssssCCCCsssservsssssssatan
Barry Marjanovich
By KATARINA KRATOVAC
Associated Press Writer
August 24, 2001
BELGRADE, Yugoslavia -- A year after the abduction of one of Slobodan
Milosevic's leading critics, police acknowledge their investigations are at
a standstill and his family fears he is dead.
The Aug. 25 snatching of Ivan Stambolic -- just a month before last year's
elections that ultimately led to Milosevic's ouster _ tops the list of
unresolved disappearances under the former president.
With police admitting that they have no leads, the Stambolic family is
losing hope that the former Serbian president who was purged by Milosevic
will ever be found. His wife, Katarina, recently said she doubts that her
husband could still be alive.
A witness saw Stambolic grabbed and trundled into a white van a year ago
while on a morning run. The scene of the crime -- a jogging path in a lush
Belgrade suburb -- now is unused, avoided by others.
"Stambolic's disappearance is our hardest case; the investigation is
practically at a standstill," said police Gen. Goran Petrovic, head of
Yugoslavia's state security. "All that is known is that some guys took him
away in a van and nothing else."
The Stambolic family lawyer, Nikola Barovic, said part of the reason
investigations have not been more fruitful is due to obstruction by public
servants who served under Milosevic. These people fear that too much digging
in the past could reflect badly on their own records, he said.
The new government is also at fault, Barovic said, suggesting it lacks the
direction and sense of purpose needed to deal with past wrongs.
"Just look at the time it took them to deliver Milosevic to The Hague war
crimes tribunal or to uncover mass graves across Serbia," said Barovic,
referring to Milosevic's handover to the U.N. court two months ago and
recent discoveries of buried corpses of hundreds of Kosovo Albanians
allegedly executed by Milosevic's squads.
But on Friday, Interior Minister Dusan Mihajlovic offered $140,000 to
anybody providing information that would help find Stambolic or solve any of
21 other, high-profile cases of murder or abduction of prominent
politicians, journalists, policemen, business and underworld figures.
Stambolic's association with Milosevic dates back to the 1960s when the two
started climbing the rungs of power in the Communist Party, which ruled
Yugoslavia until the country started falling apart in 1991.
By 1980, Stambolic was president of Serbia, the country's largest
republic -- and Milosevic's mentor. Then, in 1987, Milosevic staged a coup,
purging Stambolic and replacing him both as Serbian president and head of
the republic's Communist Party.
Stambolic over time became one of Milosevic's most prominent critics. In a
1991 open letter, he predicted that the nationalistic policies of his
erstwhile protege in Kosovo and elsewhere would destroy Yugoslavia and
plunge Serbia into isolation.
"You are creating an apartheid out of Kosovo and a ruin out of Yugoslavia,"
Stambolic wrote. "Serbia will be left abandoned by all, in torment."
Friends of the missing former Serbian president formed the Committee for
Freeing Stambolic and have published a book on his disappearance. The group
regularly updates its Web site with reports about the case.
The group adamantly believes that Stambolic's abduction was politically
motivated and tied to Milosevic. Some go as far as to say that Milosevic --
weakened in his last months of power -- ordered him killed as a threat to
his authority.
Barovic says that Milosevic and his allies feared Stambolic for the "sheer
authority his personality possessed" and his staunch refusal to condone
wrongdoing.
Aleksandar Nenadovic, of the Stambolic support group, urged the new
authorities to "unravel the vestiges of evil ... for the sake of tomorrow's
democracy."
"Our hope that Ivan is alive is slowly melting away, but we know we must not
keep silent," Nenadovic said. "This country cannot live with a political
crime such as this one unresolved."
Robert the 'erbert
marti...@hotmail.com (Damian Martinovich) wrote:
That's funny. I often thought you were an invention to discredit Serbs with your
fanatical nationalism.
Oh...and your friends the racist and anti-semitic Amir and Carl Miller (I just know
you regret teaming up with those two losers) and your general perverted stalking
behaviour. It's all in the archives.
Damian Martinovich
"Robert the 'erbert" <rob...@thehague.net> wrote in message
news:memo.20010826...@notlaw.compulink.co.uk...
: In article <w5%h7.22783$A5.6...@news1.eburwd1.vic.optushome.com.au>,
:
:
prove it
Mihalis
clap, clap, clap, clap, clap. So in the end why do all of you in the
surrounding region speak Serbian??? Well I forgot about the
hillariously pathetic attempt of the Croatian people to change the
language. As for the rest of the Balkan area you should not speak.
If you have a personal problem with the Serbians express it don't try
to push it on the rest of the area (as you say) We in Greece love the
shit out of the Serb people and with all your futile attempts this
will never change. As I said before you should express your hate,
because that is what it is, not cover it up in all of this bullshit
you just gave us
Robert the 'erbert
marti...@hotmail.com (Damian Martinovich) wrote:
Prove what - that your pals are known racists and anti-semites?
We don't have to prove it - it's all in the archives, Peter.
Robert the 'erbert
(Mihalis) wrote:
> We in Greece love the
> shit out of the Serb people and with all your futile attempts this
> will never change. As I said before you should express your hate,
> because that is what it is, not cover it up in all of this bullshit
> you just gave us
Yes, your love for the Serbs was shown when Greece voted to bomb Serboslavia.
The complete absence of any support for the Serb nationalist cause except for a few
mercenaries who failed to make an impact. At least the Muslim mercenaries did
something - no matter if some of it was horrible.
You muttered, you screamed like little girls that it wasn't fair but the fact of that
matter you Greeks did fuck all.
Damian Martinovich
"Robert the 'erbert" <rob...@thehague.net> wrote in message
news:memo.20010826...@notlaw.compulink.co.uk...
: In article <mV4i7.23025$A5.7...@news1.eburwd1.vic.optushome.com.au>,
prove it
Damian Martinovich
"Robert the 'erbert" <rob...@thehague.net> wrote in message
news:memo.20010826...@notlaw.compulink.co.uk...
: In article <205a466.01082...@posting.google.com>,
poor baby, you appear frustrated, still living in the past
get a haircut
Barry Marjanovich
The following letter was published in the Weekend Australian on
1996-01-09.
Daily on television and in the newspapers, we witness the systematic
rape, murder, mutilation and monstrous brutality administered upon the
innocent men, women and children of the Bosnian Muslim enclaves in
Bosnia. Most people like myself must be wondering if we are in fact
watching some B-grade horror movie where it doesn't really matter because
it's fiction. But it's not!
Every moment of the day, while we are living our boring, mundane lives
these vile, inhuman Serbs are rampaging through villages like drunken
beasts, destroying unarmed innocents and wiping out whole towns.
I have seen and read countless documentaries and stories about the Nazis'
Final Solution, together with all the breast-beating and fervent promises
that this will never happen, etc. etc, Well, guess what? It is. And no
one cares. It happened in Cambodia, and no one cared. It happened in
Rwanda, and no one cared. It is happening every day and no one cares,
well, at least not enough to do anything serious about it. I'm sure that
the United States alone could wipe out the entire Serb army if it went
and simply dropped a case of ammunition from helicopters on each Serb
cut-throat!
The UN is a joke, and all its members are as guilty as the Serbs by their
complicity.
R. DARBEN,
Minyama, Qld
--------------------------------------------------
Robert the 'erbert
marti...@hotmail.com (Damian Martinovich) wrote:
Like I said - no need. You know it's true as we know it's true.
You hang out with racists and anti-semites. That was established a long time ago.
Robert the 'erbert
marti...@hotmail.com (Damian Martinovich) wrote:
I think it was the original poster that was um....frustrated, Peter.
I just pointed out how much shit they really left you perverted cetniks in.
Anyway, you already know this, Peter.
Fancy a Serb-kebab?
BTW, the mullet is last year's topic: I kow that Oz is a bit off the beaten track but
come on.
Barry Marjanovich
SERVSSSSSSSERVSSSSSERVSSSSSERVSSSSSSSSSSERVS
The Calgary Herald, November 10, 1995:
servsssssssssssssssssssssssssCCCCssssssssssssssssssssssssssservs
HAGUE, Netherlands- In the Hague, the Yugoslav warcrimes tribunal directly
linked Serbia to Balkan war crimes for the first time on Thursday,
indicting three Serbian army officers in a hospital massacre in Croatia.
The likelyhood of bringing the officers to trial is slim. The tribunal
does not have the power to try in absentia and the Serbian constitution
prohibits authorities from turning Serbs over to trial outside the country.
The indictment charged that Serbian soldiers under the command of the
three Serbian army officers- Mile Mrksic, then a Yugoslav colonel who was
in command of the Belgrade-based Guards Brigade; Miroslav Radic, a
captain in command of a special infantry unit in the guards; and Veselin
Sljivancanin, a major serving as a security officer in the guards-
rounded up 261 non-Serb men from the Vukovar Hospital in the Croatian
city of Vukovar, in November 1991. The patients were dragged out of the
hospital, beaten and then shot to death.
servsssssservssssssservssssservsssssssservssssssservsssssservsssssssservs
http://www.vido.ldh.org/images/serbia.jpg
jimmy
marti...@hotmail.com says...
The question is not about the Messenger (marjanovich) but the message (the
article written by scholars. You either have to keep quite and say
nothing or disprove the credibility of each reference and quote.
Who cares if marjanovich is a spy, nut or fruitcake the same way as who cares
about you and I. What people care, is the "Serbian National Character"
presented in the article by some scholars and can not be left unchallenged. If
you wish to respond, speak on the message, not the messenger marjanovich.
jimmy
Barry Marjanovich
Dana
: The question is not about the Messenger (marjanovich) but the message (the
: article written by scholars. You either have to keep quite and say
: nothing or disprove the credibility of each reference and quote.
Are you serious?
Have you ever set foot inside a university? Listened in on a liberal arts
lecture? Just because something is written by someone with a few letters
after their name and some big words, does NOT make it intelligent, relevant,
correct or least of all "academic" or "scholarly"... You said the guy that
wrote it is a scholar... LMFAO! Does that mean he's God? Does that mean he
has no personal agendas or prejudices or that he knows everything or has
some secret knowledge only "scholars" have? Oh please! Some of the biggest
idiots, bigots and morons I have ever met have a few letters after their
name, and have large vocabulary that makes anything they say sound somewhat
"smart". I am "smart" enough to know that everything out of a "scholars"
mouth is not the be all, end all absolute truth. Get over the "scholar"
thing, for fuck's sake.
You are the only one who seems to want to "prove" or "disprove" what is said
in this posting. Look it up yourself if it's so important to you. We have
nothing to prove. The onus is on YOU. I would question why it is that you
are so quick to believe such obvious propaganda, and why you feel the onus
is on the Serbs to disprove such ridiculous allegations on something so
intangible as "national character". Like every Serb is the same, lol. Yep,
and every muslim is a raving fanatic fundamentalist, all the japanese are
smart, every chinese guy has a little dick and all latino chicks are hot
tamales, yep. It's just too stupid to contemplate, and you want someone to
"disprove" it... oh my god. To myself and other Serbs, it is disproved
because I actually KNOW Serbian people. I have had first hand experience
with the "Serbian National Character", so since you obviously don't know
Serbian people, go look it up yourself. I personally, have no need.
Have fun. Bye bye.
Damian Martinovich
\"Robert the 'erbert" <rob...@thehague.net> wrote in message
news:memo.20010826...@notlaw.compulink.co.uk...
: In article <B26i7.23050$A5.7...@news1.eburwd1.vic.optushome.com.au>,
prove it
Damian Martinovich
"Robert the 'erbert" <rob...@thehague.net> wrote in message
news:memo.20010826...@notlaw.compulink.co.uk...
: In article <Af6i7.23055$A5.7...@news1.eburwd1.vic.optushome.com.au>,
mullet head rob lives in the past
Barry Marjanovich
Damian Martinovich
"Robert the 'erbert" <rob...@thehague.net> wrote in message
news:memo.20010826...@notlaw.compulink.co.uk...
: In article <B26i7.23050$A5.7...@news1.eburwd1.vic.optushome.com.au>,
prove it mullet head
:)
Damian Martinovich
"jimmy" <an00...@anon.fun.ee> wrote in message
news:3t8i7.20934$f01.5...@news3.rdc1.on.home.com...
: In article <w5%h7.22783$A5.6...@news1.eburwd1.vic.optushome.com.au>,
you must be a troll, so a 'scholar' is a term that describes something that
was written by a European in Brazil in the 50's, so a scholar to you is a
WW2 Nazi on the run and hiding in Brazil. That, I assume is what you are
saying?
:
:
Barry Marjanovich
Einstein Accuses Yugoslavian Rulers in Savant's Murder
The following article concerning the assassination of Dr. Milan Suffly
appeared in the New York Times on May 6, 1931.
Charges the Slaying of Sufflay, Noted Croatian Leader, Was Inspired by
Government. Links King to Terrorism
Protests With Heinrich Mann Virtually Lays Parliament Killing Monarch
Increase in Cruelty Seen
League for Rights of Man Is Urged to Take Action Against "Horrible
Brutality" of Belgrade Regime.
Berlin, May 5.-Accusing the Yugoslav Government of the murder of a
Croatian, Professor Milan Sufflay, who was struck down in the streets of
Agram (Zagreb) on Feb. 18, Professor Albert Einstein and the novelist
Heinrich Mann, the brother of Thomas Mann, have sent a joint letter to the
international headquarters in Paris urging a protest against the "horrible
brutality which is being practiced upon the Croatian people." The letter
also was signed by the German headquarters of the league.
The Paris headquarters, upon receipt of the communication, immediately
undertook steps toward an effective protest to Belgrade.
"As the professor was walking home on the fatal day he was attacked
from behind with an iron rod, according to our information, and felled," the
letter of protest reads. "On the next day, he died and he was buried on the
twenty-second beside other Croatians."
Professor Sufflay was noted for a long list of scientific books, the
letter continues.
"Yet Agram newspapers were not allowed to report his activities, and
the news of his death was suppressed," the protest goes on. "Condolence
telegrams were not delivered. The time of the funeral was not allowed to be
made public and the raising of the mourning flag on the university was
forbidden. The authorities went so far as to expel those school children who
took part in the funeral and to remove wreaths which were bound with the
Croatian national colors from the grave.
"The name of the murder was known. It was Nikola Jukitsh. His
organization (Young Yugoslavia) likewise is known. It was even known that
arrangements for the murder had been worked out on the night of the eleventh
in the home of the military commandment of the city, General Beli
Markowitsch, at a session in which members of the Young Yugoslavia
organization, Brkitsh, Godler, Martschetz and the murderer Jukitsh, took
part. Yet the Agram police officially stated the next day that the name of
the murderer was not known.
Turning to the events leading up to the murder, Professor Einstein and
the other signers charged that when the King visited the Croatian capital in
January numerous leading Croats received letters, signed "For the King and
Country," in which their lives and those of their families were threatened
if they uttered any protest while the King was there. Professor Sufflay
received one of those letters, it is charged.
"The name of these terrorist organization was Young Yugoslavia, the
protest continued. "The King, in an address to the organization, told how
the Croatian representatives to the Parliament had been put out of the way
at his request. An example of this was the shooting of a Croatian leader on
the floor of the House on June 20, 1928."
Following the King's visit the murder of political and intellectual
leaders of the Croatians was openly demanded in the government press, says
the letter.
"The official organ, Nascha Sloga, in Suschak, on Feb.18 wrote,'Skulls
will be spilt.' The same evening Professor Sufflay was struck down," the
letter says.
In January the delegates to the Croatian National Assembly sent a
memorandum to Geneva calling attention to the situation in Croatia.
"The facts show that the cruelty and the brutality practiced upon the
Croatians only increases," Professor Einstein's letter says. "In view of
this frightful situation, we urge the International League for the Rights of
Man to do everything possible to suppress this unrestrained rule of might
which prevails in Croatia.
"Murder as a political weapon must not be tolerated and political
murderers must not be made national heroes. The league should muster all
possible aid to protect this small, peaceful and highly civilized people."
Sufflay a History Professor
Professor Milan Sufflay, who was murdered in Agram (Zagreb) on Feb.18,
had been a Professor of History at Zagreb University for ten years. He had
written many works on the history of Albania. In 1920, because of his
connection with Croat extremists, he was sentenced to two and a half years'
imprisonment for lese-majeste and high treason. On his release he resumed
his political activities.
Protest against the Yugoslav dictatorship of King Alexander have been
frequent since the murder of Professor Sufflay and the many "suicides" of
Croats and Macedonians in the prisons of Belgrade and Zagreb.
Three Serbs were arrested in Vienna recently who were alleged to have
been sent there on a murder mission with the knowledge of the Zagreb Chief
of Police.
The bitter feeling in Yugoslavia has resulted in numerous bombings and
assassinations.
When King Alexander proclaimed the dictatorship two years ago his chief
problem was the deadlock caused by the refusal of Croatia to be dominated by
a parliamentary government recruited largely from extreme Serbian sources.
T. Autischer
"Osama Bin Kenobi ®" wrote:
>
>
> I think the Serbs are more than justified in being paranoid, they
> probably aren't paranoid enough!
You're right! I think they have to be even more paranoid.
> Everyone seems to always want to
> destroy them.
True! Even themselves!
> I bet they're sorry they ever bought this piece of real
> estate. Put anyone in there and they'll wind up the same way.
>
> Watch what happens to the NATO troops, when they start to be affected
> by the psychology of the Balkan Quagmire...not to mention actual
> combat.
Hallelujah!
--
I keep trying to lose weight but it always finds me.
pacarada
Osama Bin Kenobi Ž <ab...@anarchy.gov> wrote in message
news:3bbdae72...@news.escape.com...
> bog_...@altavista.com (Bogoljub Perunicic) said:
>
> >Dear Dana,
> >
> >Please be notified that there are in today's state of Croatia the three
ethnic
> >groups that do not count themselves Croats. They are Istrians,
Dalmatians, and
> >Raguzans. Official Croatian propaganda talks about them as of Croatians
that
> >has no historical background at all.
>
> You are all Yugoslavians.
>
> Except for the Albanians, who are invaders.
We are invaders? You idiot! We were in that area long before the slavs
arrived. YOU DICKHEAD.
Who the fuck are you Kenobi? Talking like you actually know something, but
all that comes out of your mouth is shit.
We are invaders??? You Dickhead
Dana
my initial post in this thread.
"Zeljko Raznjatovic" <Anonymous...@See.Comment.Header> wrote in
message news:UF9EJUMC3712...@frog.nyarlatheotep.org...
: In article <3b8929f8$1...@news.iprimus.com.au>
: "Dana" <blahg...@grrr.net> wrote:
:
: > You are the only one who seems to want to "prove" or
: "disprove" what is said
: > in this posting.
:
: Maybe; everybody else pretty much takes it at face value.
:
: > We have nothing to prove.
:
: After the events of the last twelve years, most people wouldn't
: believe anything the Serbs say, anyway.
:
: > I would question why it is that you are so quick to believe
: > are so quick to believe such obvious propaganda,
:
: That's a _Serb_ national trait:
: ---------
: 01:25 General Dragoljub Ojdanic, nacelnik Generalstaba VJ,
: saopstio je zvanicne podatke po kojima je RV i PVO VJ oborilo 61
: NATO avion, 30 bespilotnih letelica, 7 helikoptera i 238
: krstarecih raketa. General Dragoljub Ojdanic, chief of FRY Army
: Generalstaff, have announced that Combat Air force and Air
: Defence units downed 61 NATO airplane, 30 pilotless aircraft, 7
: helicopters and 238 cruise missiles.
:
: http://www.inet.co.yu/war/info/tekst03-06-1-e.html
:
: Mr Goran Matic, said that terrified refugees fleeing from Kosovo
: were in fact actors taking part in a NATO directed film
: screenplay. Mr Matic said that 3,000 - 4,000 ethnic Albanians
: were paid $5.50 each to act the parts of Kosovar refugees
: fleeing Yugoslavia in the first days of the NATO airstrikes. Mr
: Matic claimed further that the refugee crisis began when these
: refugees tried to return home, not having been paid. I must say
: that of all the hypotheses and theories put forward in recent
: days to explain the terrible outpouring of refugees from Kosovo,
: this one probably qualifies for the sick joke of the year award.
: Instead of being paid $5.50 to leave, the truth is that refugees
: have to pay - they have to pay - 3,000 deutschmarks to leave
: with their lives. Instead of being given a screen identity, they
: lose their real identities when they have to hand over their
: passports and their documents, their properties, their most
: intimate possessions, and be separated from their loved ones."
:
: "Lying is a form of our patriotism and is evidence of our innate
: intelligence. We lie in a creative, imaginative, and inventive
: way."
:
: Dobrica COSIC - former president of Yugoslavia.
: http://www.magyarszo.com/slobous6.html
:
: There's also the bogus "transcript" of a NATO pilot talking to
: an AWACs controller, written by a ten-year-old who's read too
: many comic books.
:
: And then there were the US soldiers in body bags being shipped
: through Greece, and the US planes flying over Kosovo in swastika
: formation...
: ---------
:
: > and why you feel the onus
: > is on the Serbs to disprove such ridiculous allegations on
: something so
: > intangible as "national character".
:
: It's not.
: We can simply continue to believe that Serbs are naked bearded
: drunks running though the woods shooting themselves in the feet
: with their popguns, like that classic Croatian cartoon.
:
: > Like every Serb is the same, lol. Yep,
:
: The vast majority of the Serbs posting here are racist bigots
: who believe that all "turks" should be expelled from the "Sacred
: Kosmet" Serb heartland, and that arson, rape, and murder are
: acceptable means for achieving this end.
:
: It's perfectly obvious that not all Serbs are like that - that's
: why Slobodan Milosevic is sitting in his jail cell in the Hague.
:
: > To myself and other Serbs, it is disproved
: > because I actually KNOW Serbian people. I have had first hand
: experience
: > with the "Serbian National Character", so since you obviously
: don't know
: > Serbian people, go look it up yourself. I personally, have no
: need.
:
: The UCK are obviously smarter than you are - they saw such a
: need.
: That's why Serbia was bombed into submission and Kosova was
: taken away from you.
: Suit yourself - I hope you're satisfied with the outcome.
:
: ---------
: During our endless discussions there was always one common
: thread--Kosovo was sacred Serbian land and Albanians would have
: to be killed or expelled. As blunt as that, the only solution
: being to 'cleanse' their religious cradle. I heard this
: pronouncement from illiterate conscripts and from intellectuals,
: from young hotheads and from old babushkas with soft warm eyes.
: I heard it from my own Serbian relatives.
:
: And then I heard it all: Serbian history, Serbian victories,
: Serbian superiority, a people chosen by heaven itself.
:
: She (this half-Croatian's Serb grandmother) was determined to
: teach me the 'truth' about Serbia: its sacred myths, the
: illusions about Serbian grandeur and its lost territories and
: inherent superiority. Half-truths and distortions of historical
: facts in the most blatant form, these were essentially the
: principles of the Nazis, also a superior race with the God-given
: right to dominate others.
:
: http://www.gowanusbooks.com/heaven.htm
:
:
:
pacarada
Osama Bin Kenobi Ž <ab...@anarchy.gov> wrote in message
news:3bbdae72...@news.escape.com...
> bog_...@altavista.com (Bogoljub Perunicic) said:
>
> >Dear Dana,
> >
> >Please be notified that there are in today's state of Croatia the three
ethnic
> >groups that do not count themselves Croats. They are Istrians,
Dalmatians, and
> >Raguzans. Official Croatian propaganda talks about them as of Croatians
that
> >has no historical background at all.
>
> You are all Yugoslavians.
>
> Except for the Albanians, who are invaders.
Who the fuck are you Kenobi? Going on like you actually know something, but
all thats coming out of your mouth is shit.
Albanians the invaders??? You moron
Marko Njavro
> You are just a caricature of the sick Croat mentality I was talking about
in
> my initial post in this thread.
From: "Dana" <blahg...@grrr.net>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.croatia,soc.culture.albanian,soc.culture.yugoslavia
Subject: Re: Servian National Character
NNTP-Posting-Host: 203.134.67.67
NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 00:37:04 EST
-----------------------------
"pacarada" <fpac...@iprimus.com.au> wrote in message
news:3b8a...@news.iprimus.com.au...
>>
> We are invaders? You idiot! We were in that area long before the slavs
> arrived. YOU DICKHEAD.
> Who the fuck are you Kenobi? Talking like you actually know something, but
> all that comes out of your mouth is shit.
> We are invaders??? You Dickhead
From: "pacarada" <fpac...@iprimus.com.au>
Newsgroups:
soc.culture.europe,soc.culture.croatia,soc.culture.usa,soc.culture.albanian,
soc.culture.bosna-herzgvna,soc.culture.turkish,soc.culture.yugoslavia
Subject: Re: We are not Croats
NNTP-Posting-Host: 203.134.67.67
NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 00:40:12 EST
--------------------------------
What the hell's going on here? First "Dana" puts on her (?) best drama queen
performance, lamenting the supposed harsh treatment of her Serb brethren at
the hands of the historians & Croats led by Marjanovich, and then only 3
minutes later from the same computer, a certain "Pacarada" launches into a
Serbian supporter (Osama bin Kenobi) for calling Albanians "invaders".
Pacarada goes on to identify himself as an Albanian (?) and brings out the
full repertoire of obscenities with a strange fixation on bodily functions.
Methinks puppets are back in town.....
T. Autischer
Dana wrote:
> You are just a caricature of the sick Croat mentality I was talking about in
> my initial post in this thread.
>
>
--
T. Autischer
Marko Njavro wrote:
That's exactly what Zeljko was talking about. Especially the Cosic quotes.
Robert the 'erbert
Ž) wrote:
> >Like I said - no need. You know it's true as we know it's true.
>
> Speak for yourself.
>
> >You hang out with racists and anti-semites. That was established a long time ago.
>
> Do you have evidence of this?
Er...all the evidence is in the archives.
Robert the 'erbert
Ž) wrote:
> an00...@anon.fun.ee (jimmy) said:
>
> >In article <3bb7aae3...@news.escape.com>, ab...@anarchy.gov says...
> >>
> >>>PS It's not polite to quote the entire article, particularly of such size
> >>>and, khm, "quality", just to reply with few words. Next time, please cut any
> >>>irrelevant parts.
> >>
> >>Don't worry, no one actually reads articles that long on Usenet.
> >
> >Lame excuse for faliure to respond. You are too lazy to read and do
> >some research to respond appropriately knowingly well that the article rightly
> >or wrongly affects the image of you and your ethnic race.
>
> I am not a Serb you crazy Croat.
Interesting that all that disagree with you are either Croats or Albanians.
Robert the 'erbert
Njavro) wrote:
Looks like it...any ideas about Moonbeam?
Dana
guy.
Believe what you want to believe. I lurk here, I don't post often, I could
really give a shit either way. Start a big thread and get all your panties
in a bunch over it if you feel the need.
"Marko Njavro" <raj...@ozemail.com.au> wrote in message
news:gxti7.4287$vI2.2...@ozemail.com.au...
:
: "Dana" <blahg...@grrr.net> wrote in message
:
:
:
:
:
:
Marko Njavro
I don't know who he is, but I know who he isn't. It's not Vojvoda. I'm
fairly sure though that "truthseeker" is our old Russkie mate "Vladzz".
Marko Njavro
> guy.
No it doesn't nor did I ever claim that. The post below however proves that
you and "Pacarada" are one and same. Next.
jimmy
>
>:
>: The question is not about the Messenger (marjanovich) but the message (the
>: article written by scholars. You either have to keep quite and say
>: nothing or disprove the credibility of each reference and quote.
>
>Are you serious?
>
>Have you ever set foot inside a university? Listened in on a liberal arts
>lecture? Just because something is written by someone with a few letters
>after their name and some big words, does NOT make it intelligent, relevant,
>correct or least of all "academic" or "scholarly"... You said the guy that
>wrote it is a scholar... LMFAO! Does that mean he's God? Does that mean he
>has no personal agendas or prejudices or that he knows everything or has
>some secret knowledge only "scholars" have? Oh please! Some of the biggest
>idiots, bigots and morons I have ever met have a few letters after their
>name, and have large vocabulary that makes anything they say sound somewhat
>"smart". I am "smart" enough to know that everything out of a "scholars"
>mouth is not the be all, end all absolute truth. Get over the "scholar"
>thing, for fuck's sake.
You are mentally sick. I have heard "for God's sake" but never "for f-ck's
sake". May be you are right. Without the act of "f-uck" no human being will
come to this world. That is true, and there is a religion in Asia (I do not
want to call name) that worship human penis), however you do not have to remind
yourself and others when you are angry and swearing by f-uck.
>
>You are the only one who seems to want to "prove" or "disprove" what is said
>in this posting. Look it up yourself if it's so important to you. We have
>nothing to prove. The onus is on YOU. I would question why it is that you
>are so quick to believe such obvious propaganda, and why you feel the onus
>is on the Serbs to disprove such ridiculous allegations on something so
>intangible as "national character". Like every Serb is the same, lol. Yep,
>and every muslim is a raving fanatic fundamentalist, all the japanese are
>smart, every chinese guy has a little dick and all latino chicks are hot
>tamales, yep. It's just too stupid to contemplate, and you want someone to
>"disprove" it... oh my god.
You are metally sick. You swear by f-uck in one breath and by God in another
breath.
>To myself and other Serbs, it is disproved
>because I actually KNOW Serbian people. I have had first hand experience
>with the "Serbian National Character", so since you obviously don't know
>Serbian people, go look it up yourself. I personally, have no need.
>
>Have fun. Bye bye.
>
>
Setting aside the jokes, the anger, speaking seriously, spend a few minutes to
read the article and respond intelligently. You should not let the matter go
unchallenged. What you can do is, if you find articles about national character
of Albanians, Croats, Bosnians, Macedonians, Americans, the British, the
French, the Germans, the Italians and every race that raise finger at you,
expose them.
Have fun and do not get angry.
jimmy
Barry Marjanovich
The New Zealand Herald, May 11, 1996:
SARAJEVO, Bosnia and Hercegovina- A young Bosnian Muslim forced to dig
trenches for the Serbs during the siege of Sarajevo, spoke yesterday of
how he was scalped by a group of Serbs and showed the
scars to prove it.
Mr Djemal Kulenovic, aged 22, a gaunt, nervous Bosnian, spoke of his
ordeal to the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugess, Sadako Ogata,
during her tour of Sarajevo suburbs left deserted by the Serbs in March.
While he and other were digging a trench a Serb soldier ordered him
to follow him. "I went with him to the beginning of the trench. Four
of them made me lie down, took a knife and sliced a piece off my scalp...
They forced me to eat it before making me go back to work.
"I was taken by my friends to hospital. I spent 20 days in hospital but I
didn't dare say what had happened. I told them I fell down."
Refugee Commission officials said Mr Kulenovic lifted his hair to show a
"shocked" Sadako Ogata a flat white scar almost the size of his hand on
the right side of his head.
ssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss
http://www.vido.ldh.org/images/serbia.jpg
jimmy
an00...@anon.fun.ee says...
I have come to the conclusion that the sunject of "the Servian National
Character" will create hatred towards Serbs and all Serbs, good guys and bad
guys will be painted with the same brush and that is not fair. While I have no
sympathy for the Pro-Milosevis and Anti NATO Serbs, I have great respect for
the Anti Milosevic and Pro-NATO Serbs at least the new government is
pro-western, no question about it and the younger generation of Serbs will be
new breed of Serbs and be part of western nations in the near future, who know,
even part of NATO.
This is my last response on this very sensitive thread. I will not participate
on any further discussion on this subject.
jimmy
Barry Marjanovich
Devil In The Driver's Seat
servssssssservsssssssservs
The following letter was published as 'Letter Of The Day' in the Edmonton
Sun on September 9, 1995:
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------
DURING MY incarceration in the Manjaca concentration camp, the butchery
of 40 newly arrived prisoners by Serbian guards on Aug. 7, 1992, stands
foremost in my mind.
They are among the at-least 23,000 Bosnians and Croats murdered in
Serbian camps and detention centres. Other victims include some 17,000
children murdered by indiscriminate Serbian artillery and aerial
bombardment.
Yet, to my knowledge, not a single Serb has raised his voice against
these and similar crimes. The only way for the Serbian people to begin to
cure the present moral degeneracy they find themselves in is to rid
themselves of the murderers and gangsters they continue to support as
leaders.
But I feel it is too late for that. The Serbian people have just begun to
pay the price for putting the devil in the driver's seat and, rest
assured, the toll will be paid in full.
JOE GLASNOVICH
Edmonton, Alberta
Editor's Comment: You certainly know whereof you speak.
http://www.vido.ldh.org/images/serbia.jpg
Robert the 'erbert
wrote:
>
> "Robert the 'erbert" <rob...@thehague.net> wrote in message
> news:memo.20010827...@notlaw.compulink.co.uk...
> > In article <gxti7.4287$vI2.2...@ozemail.com.au>, raj...@ozemail.com.au
> (Marko
> > Njavro) wrote:
> > > What the hell's going on here? First "Dana" puts on her (?) best drama
> queen
> > > performance, lamenting the supposed harsh treatment of her Serb brethren
> at
> > > the hands of the historians & Croats led by Marjanovich, and then only 3
> > > minutes later from the same computer, a certain "Pacarada" launches into
> a
> > > Serbian supporter (Osama bin Kenobi) for calling Albanians "invaders".
> > > Pacarada goes on to identify himself as an Albanian (?) and brings out
> the
> > > full repertoire of obscenities with a strange fixation on bodily
> functions.
> > > Methinks puppets are back in town.....
> >
> > Looks like it...any ideas about Moonbeam?
>
> I don't know who he is, but I know who he isn't. It's not Vojvoda.
I know it's not Vojvoda. If you want, I can mail you about him. Very amusing.
> I'm
> fairly sure though that "truthseeker" is our old Russkie mate "Vladzz".
Uh-huh...makes sense.
Marko Njavro
"Osama Bin Kenobi ®" <ab...@anarchy.gov> wrote in message
news:3baa559b...@news.escape.com...
> rob...@thehague.net (Robert the 'erbert) said:
> >> I am not a Serb you crazy Croat.
> >
> >Interesting that all that disagree with you are either Croats or
Albanians.
>
You couldn't be more wrong.
Marko Njavro
It's someone new and fresh as evidenced by his prolific posting and
willingness to chew over boring old topics and issues. As far as Vojvoda is
concerned, it wouldn't be fair of me to make personal attacks on him, as he
has been very civilised when communicating with me
> > I'm
> > fairly sure though that "truthseeker" is our old Russkie mate "Vladzz".
>
> Uh-huh...makes sense.
Any thoughts on "Pam Ramirez"? Surely it's someone who has read your Amir_M
FAQ?
Robert the 'erbert
Ž) wrote:
> >I have come to the conclusion that the sunject of "the Servian National
> >Character" will create hatred towards Serbs and all Serbs, good guys and bad
> >guys will be painted with the same brush and that is not fair. While I have no
> >sympathy for the Pro-Milosevis and Anti NATO Serbs, I have great respect for
> >the Anti Milosevic and Pro-NATO Serbs at least the new government is
> >pro-western, no question about it and the younger generation of Serbs will be
> >new breed of Serbs and be part of western nations in the near future, who know,
> >even part of NATO.
>
> A pro-NATO Serb is the same as a corpse. Might as well shoot himself
> immediately.
There's going to be a lot of dead Serbs soon then as members of the Serbian
government have already mooted the idea.
Robert the 'erbert
Njavro) wrote:
>
> "Robert the 'erbert" <rob...@thehague.net> wrote in message
> news:memo.20010828...@notlaw.compulink.co.uk...
> > In article <bLyi7.5$0P5....@ozemail.com.au>, raj...@ozemail.com.au
> (Marko Njavro)
> > wrote:
> > > I don't know who he is, but I know who he isn't. It's not Vojvoda.
> >
> > I know it's not Vojvoda. If you want, I can mail you about him. Very
> amusing.
>
> It's someone new and fresh as evidenced by his prolific posting and
> willingness to chew over boring old topics and issues.
I'm not sure about that.
> As far as Vojvoda is
> concerned, it wouldn't be fair of me to make personal attacks on him, as he
> has been very civilised when communicating with me
Fair enough but I doubt very much whether he'll be back and if he does he'd wish he
hadn't due to investigations. :))) And he knows what I mean. :))))
> > > I'm
> > > fairly sure though that "truthseeker" is our old Russkie mate "Vladzz".
> >
> > Uh-huh...makes sense.
>
> Any thoughts on "Pam Ramirez"? Surely it's someone who has read your Amir_M
> FAQ?
It wasn't mine actually but Bilbo's but yeah...odd co-incidence for a Serb with Croat
relations to have (according to her words).
Comes in and tries to 'dig up the dirt' on Amigo when it's been done to death.
Damian Martinovich
"Robert the 'erbert" <rob...@thehague.net> wrote in message
news:memo.20010827...@notlaw.compulink.co.uk...
: In article <3bc529e5...@news.escape.com>, ab...@anarchy.gov (Osama
:
prove it
Robert the 'erbert
marti...@hotmail.com (Damian Martinovich) wrote:
No need. It's all in the archives.
Damian Martinovich
"Robert the 'erbert" <rob...@thehague.net> wrote in message
news:memo.20010829...@notlaw.compulink.co.uk...
: In article <EoTi7.23901$A5.7...@news1.eburwd1.vic.optushome.com.au>,
gutless mullet head
Robert the 'erbert
Ž) wrote:
> >> A pro-NATO Serb is the same as a corpse. Might as well shoot himself
> >> immediately.
> >
> >There's going to be a lot of dead Serbs soon then as members of the Serbian
> >government have already mooted the idea.
>
> Wishing it won't make it so.
I;m not wishing at all. A couple of the members of the government have stated that is
the eventual aim.
Why not? Serbia is not run by Milosevic any more.
Robert the 'erbert
marti...@hotmail.com (Damian Martinovich) wrote:
>
>
> "Robert the 'erbert" <rob...@thehague.net> wrote in message
> news:memo.20010829...@notlaw.compulink.co.uk...
> : In article <EoTi7.23901$A5.7...@news1.eburwd1.vic.optushome.com.au>,
> : marti...@hotmail.com (Damian Martinovich) wrote:
> :
> : >
> : >
> : > "Robert the 'erbert" <rob...@thehague.net> wrote in message
> : > news:memo.20010827...@notlaw.compulink.co.uk...
> : > : In article <3bc529e5...@news.escape.com>, ab...@anarchy.gov
> (Osama
> : > Bin Kenobi
> : > : Ž) wrote:
> : > :
> : > : > >Like I said - no need. You know it's true as we know it's true.
> : > : >
> : > : > Speak for yourself.
> : > : >
> : > : > >You hang out with racists and anti-semites. That was established a
> long
> : > time ago.
> : > : >
> : > : > Do you have evidence of this?
> : > :
> : > : Er...all the evidence is in the archives.
> : > :
> : >
> : > prove it
> :
> : No need. It's all in the archives.
>
> gutless mullet head
What's a brave one then?
What happened to your Nazi pals anyway: transmogrified into Bin Kenobi?
Barry Marjanovich
Servian Madman Screamed:
"SHELL THEM 'TILL THEY'RE ON THE EDGE OF MADNESS"
The following article appeared in the Anthony Lewis column "Abroad at
Home" of The New York Times on Jan. 5, 1996:
Boston- How did Yugoslavia descend into the savagery that killed 200,000
people and made two million refugees? It is a question of single
importance, not just for history but as a key to seeing that it does not
happen again, there or elsewhere.
We now have a documented answer, powerfully convincing in its evidence.
It is a five-hour television series. "Yugoslavia: Death of a Nation,"
shown on the BBC and then here, between Christmas and New Year's, on the
Discovery Channel.
Western politicians and commentators who wanted to close their eyes to
the horror in the former Yugoslavia have often said that it was caused by
"ancient hatreds." Americans, they said- or Britons or whoever- should
not get involved in such impenetrable ethnic-religious conflicts.
But it was not "ancient hatreds" that produced ethnic cleansing, rape and
concentration camps. It was men: ambitious men who stirred up extreme
nationalist emotions as a way to power. It was one man above all,
Slobodan Milosevic of Serbia. "Death of a Nation" makes that unarguably
clear.
We see Mr. Milosevic at the beginning of his manipulations: addressing a
Serbian crowd in the predominantly Albanian province of Kosovo in April
1987. The crowd provokes a police detachment, mostly Albanian. A man
shouts, "The police attacked us". Mr. Milosevic says, "You will not be
beaten again." It was all arranged- and Belgrade television showed the
scene with Mr. Milosevic as a Serbian hero.
That and many other scenes are amazing examples of contemporaneous
footage found by the independent British producers who made the series,
Brian Lapping Associates. There is even film taken secretly by Serbian
intelligence. And there are gripping interviews.
Radovan Karadzic, the Bosnian Serb leader who has been indicted for war
crimes, says that when Bosnia declared its independence in April 1992,
Mr. Milosevic "couldn't care less if Bosnia was recognized. He said:
'Caligula proclaimed his horse a senator, but the horse never took his
seat. Bosnia will get recognition, but...'"
When Mr. Milosevic decided to attack Croatia in the summer of 1991, he
used volunteers under the extremist paramilitary leader Vojislav Seselj.
The Yugoslav Federal Army provided weapons, uniforms and transportation.
The paramilitaries burned civilians alive and left the bodies as a message.
Again in 1992, when the attack on Bosnia began, Mr. Milosevic sought to
avoid responsibility. One of his aides says that he "pulled a fast one"-
transferred every Serb in the Federal Army to Bosnian Serb forces while
continuing to pay and supply them.
The first major attack on the town of Zvornik in Bosnia: a terrifying
onslaught that left 2,000 Bosnian Muslim civilians "unaccounted for".
Vojislav Seselj's paramilitaries were there, and he tells an interviewer:
"Milosevic was in absolute control. It was all planned in Belgrade."
Mr. Milosevic is not the only Yugoslav figure shown in the series as a
cold-blooded manipulator, but he is special. The President of Slovenia,
Milan Kucan, says: "With Milosevic you never can relax. Show him a
finger, and he'll have your arm off."
One of the most arresting aspects of the series is the evidence of how
Western weakness encouraged the genocidal aggression. Mr. Milosevic sent
a secret envoy to Moscow before attacking Croatia, and the Soviet
military said its intelligence showed that the West would not respond. It
was good intelligence.
Dr. Karadzic, speaking to an interviewer, confirms what critics of
American and European policy have maintained - that we could have stopped
it. "I knew," he says, "that if the West put in 10,000 men to cut off our
supply corridor, we Serbs would be finished."
Those who are skeptical of television's potential as a medium for
sustained journalism of a high order should see this series and think
again. So should those American politicians who tell us that we should be
content with the degraded trash that the free market mostly brings to the
screen.
There are more remarkable moments in the series than a column can even
suggest. For me the most chilling is the voice of Ratko Mladic, the
Bosnian Serb general, telling his men on the hills overlooking Sarajevo:
"Shell the presidency and the Parliament. Target Muslim neighborhoods -
not many Serbs live there. Shell them 'till they're on the edge of madness."
servsssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssservs
Damian Martinovich
"Robert the 'erbert" <rob...@thehague.net> wrote in message
news:memo.20010829...@notlaw.compulink.co.uk...
: In article <CN5j7.24307$A5.7...@news1.eburwd1.vic.optushome.com.au>,
:
:
gutless wimp
prove it
Marko Gogala
indipendent state,so does montenegro and vojvodina will follow very
soon.Indipendent republic of Sandzak sound's nice,dont u think?
I come from dalmatia myself,and I sore doo consider myself a croat,so does
everyone from dalmatia I know,some are even too much croat (the center of
pro-norac demonstrations were Sinj&Split).I hope that the originall letter
was just a very bad joke.news:3baa077c...@news.escape.com...
> gorjan <gor...@myrealbox.com> said:
>
> >T. Autischer wrote...
> >
> >> Oh, you forgot Trnjans, Maximirians and especially Pescenicians which
all have rich
> >> history and are ancient european ethnic groups.
> >
> >Hey, what about Dubravanians? :) Or even Sesvetians.
>
> NATO will make sure they are all dead.
Bogoljub Perunicic
There is nothing here that you have to explain to. This guy (Njavro) thinks that
you are the only user of an IP public server (NNTP-Posting-Host: 203.134.67.67).
That way he could *prove* that Washington DC has only one inhabitant, the US
Army only one soldier, etc.
Best regards,
Bog Perun
Barry Marjanovich
Robert the 'erbert
marti...@hotmail.com (Damian Martinovich) wrote:
Hush my little puppet. All in good time.
Marko Njavro
"Bogoljub Perunicic" <bog_...@altavista.com> wrote in message
news:8872f979.01083...@posting.google.com...
> Dear Dana,
>
> There is nothing here that you have to explain to. This guy (Njavro)
thinks that
> you are the only user of an IP public server (NNTP-Posting-Host:
203.134.67.67).
>
> That way he could *prove* that Washington DC has only one inhabitant, the
US
> Army only one soldier, etc.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Bog Perun
Not knowing the difference between fixed and dynamic IP's is probably what
got you booted out of Lucent in the first place, Mr. Mirko M. Djuric, you
sick fuck.
Damian Martinovich
: In article <dLcj7.24363$A5.7...@news1.eburwd1.vic.optushome.com.au>,
wimp mullet head
Robert the 'erbert
(Bogoljub Perunicic) wrote:
> Dear Dana,
>
> There is nothing here that you have to explain to. This guy (Njavro) thinks that
> you are the only user of an IP public server (NNTP-Posting-Host: 203.134.67.67).
>
> That way he could *prove* that Washington DC has only one inhabitant, the US
> Army only one soldier, etc.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Bog Perun
The chances of two different people posting into the same ng with the same IP number
to the same thread are very, very slim.
Robert the 'erbert
Ž) wrote:
> >What's a brave one then?
> >
> >What happened to your Nazi pals anyway: transmogrified into Bin Kenobi?
> >
> I laugh as your Empire crumbles day by day...
We write history books about your empire: the 3rd Reich.
Marko Njavro
"Robert the 'erbert" <rob...@thehague.net> wrote in message
news:memo.2001083...@notlaw.compulink.co.uk...
Not to mention that "they" posted within 3 minutes of each other.
Robert the 'erbert
Njavro) wrote:
Who's this chap?
Marko Njavro
"Robert the 'erbert" <rob...@thehague.net> wrote in message
news:memo.2001083...@notlaw.compulink.co.uk...
A Serb from Chicago, a known pupetteer from s.c.c. In his best days he had 3
puppets all interacting and "talking" with each other. He posted under his
real name, as well as having three "Jewish" puppets all agreeing and siding
with him. He let his guard down one day and three "persons" were tracked to
the same source (Lucent). After this was posted, he congratulated me, called
me a bastard and took a break of about three months. He came back as a fake
Barry Marjanovich, and that charade lasted 6-8 weeks. His newest
reincarnation sees him as "Bogoljub Perunicic", a Croat. The fact that he
has so much time for puppetry indicates to me that he was probably fired by
Lucent, as they recently decided to "let" half of their workforce go.
Robert the 'erbert
Robert the 'erbert
Njavro) wrote:
Ta. I remember the fake Barry.
I do wonder what the point of all this was though.
Bogoljub Perunicic
>
> Not knowing the difference between fixed and dynamic IP's
No I do not know it. I know that every ISP server has a permanent (not fixed) IP
address and that the customer gets a temporary IP address whenever he logs its
account on. All the temporary IP addresses come from the pool of the IP addresses
granted to the ISP by the FCC here in the USA. Whenever the customer logs his
account off, the temporary IP address goes back to the pool.
Of course, a customer can require and have a permanent IP address which is not
true in the Dana's case. In addition, the customer's permanent IP address is a
personal datum protected by the law as SSN or the credit card number - therefore
publicly unavailable without the owner's permission.
So, what you have seen is still an ISP server IP address.
>is probably what
> got you booted out of Lucent in the first place, Mr. Mirko M. Djuric, you
> sick fuck.
This *knowledge* (Djuric, Lucent, blah blah) comes from your brain tumor? Or
following the *logic* and *knowledge* you have demonstrated in this thread?
Tony Jurcic once called you Njakalo. Proper name for a person like you.
Sincerely
Bog Perun
Marko Njavro
> "Marko Njavro" <raj...@ozemail.com.au> wrote in message
news:<6%Gj7.831$V83....@ozemail.com.au>...
>
> >
> > Not knowing the difference between fixed and dynamic IP's
>
> No I do not know it.
Indeed. Here in Australia the first 5 (or 6) numbers are fixed IP's,
individual to each ISP. What comes after that is a dynamic IP, allocated to
each customer upon dial up. "Dana" was too stupid to disconnect, dial up
again to receive a different dynamic IP and she posted as "Pacarada" with
the exact same dynamic IP. Then it was strike two after the two puppets
("Dana" and then "Pacarada" or whatever the hell the nick was) posted to the
same thread. Strike three was the difference of only 3 minutes between both
posts. Enough evidence for anyone, and the fact that "she" hasn't been back
since these revelations adds further credence.
> >is probably what
> > got you booted out of Lucent in the first place, Mr. Mirko M. Djuric,
you
> > sick fuck.
>
> This *knowledge* (Djuric, Lucent, blah blah) comes from your brain tumor?
Or
> following the *logic* and *knowledge* you have demonstrated in this
thread?
Tell me, what kind of action was taken against you by the Lucent network
admin after they discovered your puppetry and what you got up to at work. If
this contributed in any way to you getting sacked, I'll take a bow. Say, I
heard that welfare payments last for only 13 weeks in the states. You must
be running out of those cheques and food stamps by now. Start looking for a
job you bum.
> Tony Jurcic once called you Njakalo. Proper name for a person like you.
Still way better than Djubric.
> Bog Perun
Not "Perun" but Mirko M. Djubric.
Bogoljub Perunicic
> "Bogoljub Perunicic" <bog_...@altavista.com> wrote in message
> news:8872f979.01090...@posting.google.com...
> > "Marko Njavro" <raj...@ozemail.com.au> wrote in message
> news:<6%Gj7.831$V83....@ozemail.com.au>...
> >
> > >
> > > Not knowing the difference between fixed and dynamic IP's
> >
> > No I do not know it.
>
> Indeed. Here in Australia the first 5 (or 6) numbers are fixed IP's,
> individual to each ISP. What comes after that is a dynamic IP, allocated to
> each customer upon dial up. "Dana" was too stupid to disconnect, dial up
> again to receive a different dynamic IP and she posted as "Pacarada" with
> the exact same dynamic IP. Then it was strike two after the two puppets
> ("Dana" and then "Pacarada" or whatever the hell the nick was) posted to the
> same thread. Strike three was the difference of only 3 minutes between both
> posts. Enough evidence for anyone, and the fact that "she" hasn't been back
> since these revelations adds further credence.
Oh, really? Did not know that it works this way in Australia ... My sincere
apologies to other readers (not to you) and thank you for providing this
info to me.
>
>
> > >is probably what
> > > got you booted out of Lucent in the first place, Mr. Mirko M. Djuric,
> you
> > > sick fuck.
> >
> > (1)This *knowledge* (Djuric, Lucent, blah blah) comes from your brain tumor?
> Or
> >(2) following the *logic* and *knowledge* you have demonstrated in this
> thread?
This way you eliminated only the second option. The first one might be still
valid. Anyway - your story about my *identity* became more interesting. I cannot
answer your questions properly because I do not have any knowledge about the
matter you are trying to convey to the readers. This time I admit it humbly.
For the readers sake, please, ask Lucent the same question about that person
(Djuric), then contact the USA welfare authorities in order to check a bit
more precisely my *identity* . After, whatever you hear about this matter, you
will be free to say anything about me - I won't be offended at all. That
might heal your frustrations you have somehow earned long ago.
Your Herzegovina pal Barry has a simpler method - everyone he dislikes is
simply a "Hiding Serv".
> Tell me, what kind of action was taken against you by the Lucent network
> admin after they discovered your puppetry and what you got up to at work. If
> this contributed in any way to you getting sacked, I'll take a bow. Say, I
> heard that welfare payments last for only 13 weeks in the states. You must
> be running out of those cheques and food stamps by now. Start looking for a
> job you bum.
>
> > Tony Jurcic once called you Njakalo. Proper name for a person like you.
>
Glad to see that you are happy with your nickname.
> Still way better than Djubric.
Sincerely,
Bog Perun
Robert the 'erbert
wrote:
> Bloody Jew.
I'm Jewish? Are the majority of historians Jewish?
Robert the 'erbert
(Bogoljub Perunicic) wrote:
> In addition, the customer's permanent IP address is a
> personal datum protected by the law as SSN or the credit card number - therefore
> publicly unavailable without the owner's permission.
Not true. Static IP addresses are as available as dynamic.
Barry Marjanovich
Now it's time to take stock of Milosevic's legacy. Who's guilty, who's not?
By Michael Meyer
NEWSWEEK INTERNATIONAL
April 9 issue - Sarajevo. Srebrenica. Vukovar. Kosovo. It is impossible to
calculate the toll exacted by Slobodan Milosevic. A quarter of a million
dead. More than 3 million refugees. Countless homes and villages burned,
lives and families broken, a nation destroyed. Wars so murderous, so
unbridled, so extraordinarily vicious as to draw in Greece, Spain, Germany,
the United States. Even now there is no end in sight. Milosevic will be
tried for corruption. He will be judged for crimes against humanity.
WHAT CAN YOU SAY about such a man, beyond these raw facts? Milosevic is one
of those rare abstractions, whose objective biography means almost nothing.
He is our postmodern Eichmann, today's banality of evil. It means little to
note that he was born in 1941, in the gritty Serbian industrial town of
Pozarevac, or to chart his rise through the Communist Party. Like Hitler,
his reality is as a force, a catalyst for recondite yearnings within the
hearts of his people that he could voice and manipulate.
"No one will beat you again," he famously told Serbs in Kosovo in 1987. The
crowds cheered wildly, seeming to spontaneously launch him to power. In
fact, it was a farce, totally stage-managed. Milosevic's cohorts organized
the rally, hurled rocks to spark a "protest" where Serbs could be
"beaten"-and "Slobo" could heroically rise to his moment. Historians would
often explain the wars that followed by evoking "ancient ethnic hatreds." As
in Kosovo, those conflicts were also largely manufactured. Milosevic
recognized that socialism was dead. To seize power, he fomented the new
ideology of ethnic nationalism. He was a master of propaganda and used
Serbia's captive media to promote himself and his cause of Greater Serbia.
I saw this firsthand in the tiny Croatian town of Pakrac, near the Serbian
border, in 1991. Serbian separatists emerged from the Yugoslav Army base and
shot up the Croatian police station. The Army, which just happened to be
holding maneuvers in the area, rolled in to "keep the peace." Reporters from
Belgrade's state TV and radio reported dozens of Serbs killed and thousands
forced to flee under headlines reading massacre of the innocents and
bloodbath at dawn. In fact, no one was killed, nor were any Serbs attacked.
It was a fraud, designed to whip up national feeling. So it was everywhere.
Hence a question. While Milosevic's guilt is manifest, that of Serbs in
general is less so. To what extent do they share in his crimes, to what
extent were they ignorant? The dictator's arrest will thrust this issue
front and center, regardless of the particular charges brought against him.
Inconceivable as it may seem to a world steeped in a decade's war, Serbs
themselves are curiously isolated. Visiting Belgrade after Milosevic's
ouster, I was struck by how little attitudes had changed. Serbs still hold
the past at a distance. They played no role, or were victims, or at worst
committed crimes no different than those perpetrated by other "parties to
the conflict," as the language of moral equivalence would have it. They
cling to their myths: the glorious defeat of 1389 by the Ottomans, their
unappreciated defense of Christendom, the weird cosmology of conspirators
against them, from the Vatican and the CIA to NATO and the United States.
Even today, most Serbs do not believe they bombarded Sarajevo. Serbs in
Bosnia can walk past the bones of murdered Muslim neighbors, lying in the
woods and fields over Srebrenica or some other massacred enclave, and give
them scarcely a thought. Bad things happen in war, they might say. Perhaps
they killed themselves. Possibly they even deserved it, retribution for
"crimes" committed yesterday or 500 years ago.
Among their delusions, Serbs harbor a deep grievance against Milosevic
himself. "He did this to us," many say, referring to the country's economic
collapse, sanctions, their status as an international pariah. For Milosevic,
this is a penalty of failure. Had he won his wars, had NATO not intervened,
Milosevic would likely be still sitting in his presidential villa, drinking
coffee with his comrades, as he felt he had every right to do just hours
before the police crashed down his doors. For Serbs who share such views,
this is a conditional mea cupla , a subtle absolution. He stole our lives,
too, our futures. Milosevic is the criminal, not us, who did not know.
Daniel Goldhagen notes the same abdication, the same absence of outrage and
responsibility among Germans during the Holocaust.
Bringing home the truth will be exceedingly difficult. There is no paper
trail; Milosevic left behind no incriminating documents. He masked his role
in Bosnia and Croatia by channeling money and weapons through the Army,
paramilitaries and local politicians. Mafia henchmen did his dirty work in
Serbia proper, and witnesses to his crimes in Serbia proper have had an odd
way of disappearing. With time, "good Serbs" will emerge to tell how they
opposed Milosevic from the beginning, just as an earlier generation of
Germans claimed to have sheltered Jews or fought in the Resistance. Many
will be justified; more will not.
It took decades for Germans to come to terms with Nazism, for Russians to
repudiate Stalin. It will almost certainly take Serbs as long to deal with
their collective guilt, however that unwieldy concept is defined. But there
are encouraging signs. Vojislav Kostunica talks of establishing a Truth
Commission, as in South Africa. There is also a clear virtue in trying
Milosevic in Belgrade rather than The Hague. It will bring this debate home,
keep it close instead of far away. Only by talking about the unthinkable can
the nation begin to come to terms with its past. Milosevic and his people
may not be one, any more than Germans were Hitler. But they were-and
are-bound in a deadly embrace.
http://www.tamu.edu/upress/BOOKS/1997/cohen.htm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/europe/newsid_1134000/1134969.stm
http://mprofaca.cro.net/mainmenu.html
http://www.hbk.hr/crkve/eindex.html
sssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss
> ORDINARY SERVS KILLED 250,000 PEOPLE! <
sssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss
http://www.dssrewards.net/english/warcrimes/warcriminals.html
http://abcnews.go.com/reference/bios/milosevic.html
http://www.sps.org.yu/ljudi/smilosevic.html
http://www.americanradioworks.org/features/kosovo/index.htm
http://ds.dial.pipex.com/srebrenica.justice/
http://www.alb-net.com/
http://www.sps.org.yu/eng/index-n.htm
ssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss
"I am the president"
http://www.dssrewards.net/english/warcrimes/milos.html
ssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss
SLOBODANE, SALJI NAM SALATE;
BI'CE MESA, BI'CE MESA -
KLA'CEMO HRVATE!...
For those interested in Serbian "poetry" this is the translation of words
Serbian war criminals were singing to their leader Slobodan Milosevic:
Slobodan, send to us some salad;
It's gonna be a lot of meat, lot of meat ...
- we'll slaughter Croats!...
Jim
suprised by
their irrational thinking and behavior. These fucking islamists are a blight
on the
planet. And, we see only the tip of the iceberg as to their plotting to
spread their
dangerous message.
gogu
news:Qovn7.16321$BS1.1...@news20.bellglobal.com...
Don't worry. Proper authorities were informed about TERRORISTS like amir and
Co... Soon they will pay their crimes.
kirill
>
> Osama Bin Kenobi Ž <ab...@anarchy.gov> wrote in message
> news:3ba1975f...@news.escape.com...
> > bmarja...@iprimus.ca (Barry Marjanovich) said:
> >
> > >Aftermath: His Willing Executioners
> > >
> > >Now it's time to take stock of Milosevic's legacy. Who's guilty, who's
> not?
> >
> > Croats: Guilty
> > Muslims: Guilty
> > KLA/NLA/UCK: Guilty
> > NATO: Guilty
> > CIA: Guilty
> > SAS: Guilty
> >
> > When are ALL the guilty going to be punished?
> >
> > Yeah, I thought so.
> >
> > ALL INVADERS, GET OUT OF THE BALKANS! ALBANIANS GO BACK TO ALBANIA!
> And slavs like you can fuck off to Russia
Looky here, a racist asswipe spewing his bile. Your beloved Albanians
were moved into Kosovo and FYR Macedonia by the Turks during the 1800s
and later by the Nazis and the Italians fascists during WWII. You
need to go back to the putrid hole you crawled out of.
Damian Martinovich
"Jim" <toron...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:Qovn7.16321$BS1.1...@news20.bellglobal.com...
: Albanians are just another group of violent muslims, nobody should be
:
:
Osma Bin Laden supported and supports the KLA in Kosovo and mulsim
fundamentalists in Bosnia. This attack is an attack on the entire world, the
taliban are a bunch of fucking animals.
One of the planes that was smashed into the WTC was a Qantas Aussie
connector flight to Australia via LA, sick fucking Taliban shit, I caught
the same flight 8 weeks ago from a business trip. What the fuck has innocent
Australians got to do with any of this. I have friends who work in the WTC
and catch the subway under the WTC to work, I was even in the WTC only 9
weeks ago, I cant believe that it is gone.
Bin Landen and all its supporters are repulsive animals
DM
Jim
as muslims...
animals are our friends...
islamisgrowing2000
Although I was Irish and most of the Irish people were adherent to the
Catholic church, I was raised with a Protestant education. However, I
was only a child when I took a hearty dislike to the Christian tenets
I was being taught and began to maintain a healthy skepticism about
them. By the time I reached the university level of education, which
subsequently added quite a few novelties to my knowledge, my
skepticism had already developed into judgement. The Christian
religion would give me nothing. Then, I began to feel deep repugnance
towards it, which, by and by, unfolded itself in a form of categorical
denial. So urgently did I feel the need to find "a guide to lead me to
the right way" that I had to improvise a credo whereby to satisfy
myself pro tem. For a considerable period of time I had to do with
this complicated mood. One day I came across a book entitled 'Islam
and Civilization'. As soon as I read it, I saw in great amazement and
joy that all the hopes I had been cherishing, all the questions that
had been gnawing at my mind, and their answers as well, were contained
in the book. In contrast with the reciprocal acts of cruelty and
oppression among the Christian sects, Islam's peaceful and lively
principles had been guiding humanity on the lightsome way of truth.
The sources of knowledge and civilization had risen in the Muslim
countries and sprinkled their lights on the darkened life of Europe
which had been moaning under an all-round savagery. In comparison with
Christianity, Islam was by far a more logical and more useful
religion.
What made me fall for Islam at first sight was its rejection of the
Christian dogma that "Men are sinful from birth and therefore they
have to expiate their sins in the world." In the process of time, I
learned the other Islamic principles pertaining to the humanities and
civilization and admired the greatness of that religion. Islam did not
differentiate between the rich and the poor. In Islam, people of all
races, colours and languages were brothers, not only in theory, but
also in practice. At one stroke, it levelled down the differences of
wealth, position, race, country, and colour among people. It was for
this reason that I embraced Islam.
Robert the 'erbert
(Jim) wrote:
More words of 'wisdom' from the deranged.
Robert the 'erbert
marti...@hotmail.com (Damian Martinovich) wrote:
>
>
> "Jim" <toron...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:Qovn7.16321$BS1.1...@news20.bellglobal.com...
> : Albanians are just another group of violent muslims, nobody should be
> : suprised by
> : their irrational thinking and behavior. These fucking islamists are a
> blight
> : on the
> : planet. And, we see only the tip of the iceberg as to their plotting to
> : spread their
> : dangerous message.
> :
> :
>
> Osma Bin Laden supported and supports the KLA in Kosovo and mulsim
> fundamentalists in Bosnia.
What muslim fundamentalists pea-brain? The biggest problem in Bosnian was the Serbian
and Croat christian fundamentalists. The very unfundementalist muslims in BiH were
slaughtered in their thousands.
> This attack is an attack on the entire world, the
> taliban are a bunch of fucking animals.
I would still count them a higher species than you.
> One of the planes that was smashed into the WTC was a Qantas Aussie
> connector flight to Australia via LA, sick fucking Taliban shit, I caught
> the same flight 8 weeks ago from a business trip. What the fuck has innocent
> Australians got to do with any of this. I have friends who work in the WTC
> and catch the subway under the WTC to work, I was even in the WTC only 9
> weeks ago, I cant believe that it is gone.
>
> Bin Landen and all its supporters are repulsive animals
Not animals: cold calculating fanatics very similar to the SDS Bosnian Serbs.
You'll find them everywhere in the world, Peter.
Robert the 'erbert
wrote:
> >Osma Bin Laden supported and supports the KLA in Kosovo and mulsim
> >fundamentalists in Bosnia. This attack is an attack on the entire world, the
> >taliban are a bunch of fucking animals.
>
> Then Amerika must be even worse, since they helped create Bin Laden
> back in the war with Russia
Soviet Union. The only people sufficiently, motivated to fight the SU were Islamic
groups. Thus it was logical to support them.
> and helped create the UCK (KLA).
Irrelevant.
> It is
> ridiculous that the US thought it could get away with these wars by
> proxy.
>
> Now the wars have come home...TO THE SOURCE!
>
> >One of the planes that was smashed into the WTC was a Qantas Aussie
> >connector flight to Australia via LA, sick fucking Taliban shit, I caught
> >the same flight 8 weeks ago from a business trip. What the fuck has innocent
> >Australians got to do with any of this. I have friends who work in the WTC
> >and catch the subway under the WTC to work, I was even in the WTC only 9
> >weeks ago, I cant believe that it is gone.
> >
> >Bin Landen and all its supporters are repulsive animals
>
> Thank the CIA for Bin Laden.
Bin Laden didn't need help. No that he turned it down I'm sure.
The problem with you Moonbeam is your supreme ignorance of the subjects you talk
about.
----------------------------------------------------------
> Is your position that we are all racists and the best
> thing for humanity is that we be honest about it?
Yep.
> We're asking you to be honest here.
Hope that was honest enough for you.
/"Osama Bin Kenobi" admitting he is a racist/ 29th Sept 2001
Robert the 'erbert
wrote:
> islamisgr...@my-deja.com (islamisgrowing2000) said:
>
> All religions are man-made. They are being used for political goals
> now, not spirituality.
>
> The true God, call him/her/it (some call it The Force) whatever you
> wish, does not speak through any organized, structured religion, he
> speaks to us all individually in ways we can only understand as
> individuals.
>
> Until we stop playing religious political games, there will continue
> to be senseless war in the name of lies written in a book by men.
Robert the 'erbert
wrote:
> "Jim" <toron...@sympatico.ca> said:
>
> >Albanians are just another group of violent muslims, nobody should be
> >suprised by
> >their irrational thinking and behavior. These fucking islamists are a blight
> >on the
> >planet. And, we see only the tip of the iceberg as to their plotting to
> >spread their
> >dangerous message.
> >
>
> The ridiculous part is that after Afghanistan, Amerika still hasn't
> learned that it shouldn't support Islam!!!!
>
> I guess now they might have learned.
The US doesn't support Islam. If anything it supports Judaism and Christianity and
this can be seen in a myraid of ways.
It's very clear to everybody with any intelligence that a multitude of Islamic
extremist groups think the US pursues an anti-muslim policy so how you contend that
America supports Islam is beyond me. You mistake support for groups who happen to be
Islamic fundamentalist in situations for strategic reasons for some sort of hidden
policy.
Bigots like you love to construct theories to support your irrational racism.
Robert the 'erbert
> amir wrote:
> >
> > Osama Bin Kenobi ® <ab...@anarchy.gov> wrote in message
> > news:3ba1975f...@news.escape.com...
> > > bmarja...@iprimus.ca (Barry Marjanovich) said:
> > >
> > > >Aftermath: His Willing Executioners
> > > >
> > > >Now it's time to take stock of Milosevic's legacy. Who's guilty, who's
> > not?
> > >
> > > Serbs: Guilty
> > > Croats: Guilty
> > > Muslims: Guilty
> > > KLA/NLA/UCK: Guilty
> > > NATO: Guilty
> > > CIA: Guilty
> > > SAS: Guilty
> > >
> > > When are ALL the guilty going to be punished?
> > >
> > > Yeah, I thought so.
> > >
> > > ALL INVADERS, GET OUT OF THE BALKANS! ALBANIANS GO BACK TO ALBANIA!
> > And slavs like you can fuck off to Russia
>
> Looky here, a racist asswipe spewing his bile.
Says Kirill the pan-slav supremist.
Robert the 'erbert
wrote:
> kirill <kir...@university.edu> said:
>
> >amir wrote:
> >>
> >> Osama Bin Kenobi ® <ab...@anarchy.gov> wrote in message
> >> news:3ba1975f...@news.escape.com...
> >> > bmarja...@iprimus.ca (Barry Marjanovich) said:
> >> >
> >> > >Aftermath: His Willing Executioners
> >> > >
> >> > >Now it's time to take stock of Milosevic's legacy. Who's guilty, who's
> >> not?
> >> >
> >> > Serbs: Guilty
> >> > Croats: Guilty
> >> > Muslims: Guilty
> >> > KLA/NLA/UCK: Guilty
> >> > NATO: Guilty
> >> > CIA: Guilty
> >> > SAS: Guilty
> >> >
> >> > When are ALL the guilty going to be punished?
> >> >
> >> > Yeah, I thought so.
> >> >
> >> > ALL INVADERS, GET OUT OF THE BALKANS! ALBANIANS GO BACK TO ALBANIA!
> >> And slavs like you can fuck off to Russia
> >
> >Looky here, a racist asswipe spewing his bile. Your beloved Albanians
> >were moved into Kosovo and FYR Macedonia by the Turks during the 1800s
> >and later by the Nazis and the Italians fascists during WWII. You
> >need to go back to the putrid hole you crawled out of.
>
> The Albanians are not a legitimate country. The Albanian government
> collapsed and has never been rebuilt. It is a lawless regime, another
> Afghanistan waiting to happen.
Says the man gloating over the deaths of thousands of his fellow city-dwellers.