History of Albanians
Nestor
great debate, it is questianable and controversial. Some Albanians
nationalists and fanatics would like to think so however. Similarly the
Slav Skopians, would like to
think that they are macedonians, Turks would like to think they are
Europeans and several other ridiculus misconceptions. The common element
between all those races is that they are currently occupying Greek land;
with the Turks occupying the majority of Greek land.
Historians know that Albanians came from the Caspian Sea, near Caucasus.
And that they mixed with Illyrians.
Of course, Albanians tend to overlook that detail and assume they
descent directly from Illyrians.
The Albanians are from the Caucasus, originally. Caucasian Albania was
located on the eastern area of the Caucasus between the Caspian sea and
the tips of the mountain ranges. Old Albania was known only for wild
dogs and baren snow covered mountains, for which it received the name
Albania by foreigners (Alba-white).
One of the GREATEST PROOFS that Albanians do come from the Caucasus and
that THEY ARE NOT the descendants of the Ancient Illyrians is the
Turkish name for the Albanians. "Arnauti", which means "those who have
not returned" in Arabic, for the Turks were aware of the origins of the
Albanians. And they truly did not return, they stayed in Serbian and
Byzantine lands.
In turn, the Albanians did not use any of those names for themselves,
but called themselves "shqiptari". The word "shqip" has many meanings in
Albanian. It can mean "eagle" or "rocky hill". Austro-Hungarian
anthropologists and philologists in early last century attempted to give
the Albanians a noble character nd theorized that the "eagle" was the
root meaning and totally ignored both modern Albania and Caucasian
Albania as rocky, baren and poor places, which would allude to the
notion of the former as being the root meaning for naming themselves.
Is this just a greater Serbian quasi-history to cover up the noble
Illyrian roots of Albanians? Not according to a contemporary od
Maniakos, the Byzantine ruler who brought the Albanians to northern
Epirus. Michael Ataliotos describes the events in his chronicle:
"Historia, Corpus Scriptorum Historiae Byzantinae. Impensis ed. Neberi,
Bonnae".
In the republic of Georgia, in the Caucasus, on the terriory of the
former Caucasian Albania, from where the Avar Khanate once had its
capital, there is a village named: "Arnauti". This is the name by which
Serbs, Greeks, Turks, FYR-Macedonians and Montenegrin Serbs refer to
Albanians in their respective langauges. There is also village in
Georgia named "Bushati" - which is the name of an Albanian tribe ("fis")
around Lake Skadar. There are three villages named: "Geguti", "Gegeni"
and "Gegi". "Ghegheni" is the name designated to Albanians who live
north of the Shkumbi River in Albania proper.
The Albanians call themselves "Shqip-tari". This name is not
Indo-European in origin and contains in it the Ural-Altaic suffix "ar"
or "tar". Much like: "Khaz-AR", "Av-AR", "Magy-AR", "Bulg-AR",
"Hung-AR", "Ta-TAR" - "Ship-TAR". Taken together with the
Shqiptar-Albanian toponyms on the territory of the former Caucasian
Albania, this theory on the etymology of "Shqipatr" becomes more
plausable.
When Aleander the Great conquered Asia minor, he took with him the great
leader of the Albanian tribes and gave him as a present an Albanian dog.
Among other things, Caucasian Albania did not attract conquerors,
because of its poverty and difficult terrain.
With the comming of the Arabs, they converted the Old Albanians in the
8th century to Islam. But meanwhile, at the time, the Arabs were waging
campaigns in Sicily, dividing it into two parts, (hence there was the
Kingom of the two Sicilies). In order to populate their part of Sicily,
the Arabs brought with them Old Albanians from the Caucasus. To this
day, their descendants live in Sicily.
Then in 1042, the Byzantine Empire attacked the yong Serbian state after
having defeated the Arabs in Sicily and having brought the Sicilian
Albanians under their command and christianizing them. The leader of the
Byzantines who led the Albanians was named Georgius Maniakos. Maniakos
brought Albanian mercenaries from Sicily to fight the Serbs and they
settled in two waves in modern day Albania, first the mercanaries came,
and then came the women and children. After the defeat of Maniakos, the
Byzantines would not let the Albanians return, thus the Albanians
requested that the Serbs let them stay on the land. They settled under
mount Raban and the city of Berat and from this, the Serbs called them
"Rabanasi" or "Arbanasi". The city of Berat was known as Belgrad also,
before the Albanians came to settle there. They mostly tended sheep and
cattle and lent themselves out to Serbian nobles as brave soldiers.
The original URAL-ALTAIC speaking Caucasian Shqiptar-Albanians were part
of the AVAR KHANATE which had one of its early capitals in Caucasian
Albania (hence Albanian topnyms there, the possible Ural-Altaic
etymology of the suffix in the word "Shqip-tar" and the similarities in
national costume with Caucasian peoples - the non-Indo-European
Georgians, in particular).
The original Shqiptar-Albanian group of AVARS settled in Northern
Romania and subjugated the Latin speaking peoples of that area when the
Avars entered Europe and conquered most of its Eastern part. Over time
they assimilated most of the Latin language of the people they
conquered, but imposed their name on their new subjects - just like the
Bulg-AR tribe did in Thrace. This explains why modern Albanian has
simmilarities to the Romance languages of Romania. This Ship-tar Av-ar
tribe, I believe, moved south as far as Epirus from where the Avars are
recorded as staging their failed attack on Constantinople.
So, by the time the Avar Khanate was defeated by the armies of Serbs and
Croats and Charles the Great in the 7th century, the Avars had reached
south as far as EPIRUS from where they based this failed attack on
Constantinople!!! In Epirus, this Shqiptar-Avar tribe assimilated the
Illyrians and Hellens of Epirus, as they had done to the Latin speakers
of Northern Romania more than a century earlier.
While the Avars were driven out of Europe by Charles the Great and
killed off by Serbs and Croats in the Balkans in the 7th century, the
Serbs NEVER REACHED the south of the Shkumbi until the LATE DARK AGES.
The Shqiptar-Avars in Epirus and south of the Shkumbi were left
unharmed.
Comments will be appreciated.
--
Talk sense to a fool and he calls you foolish. - Euripedes (480 ?
406 BC)
-- Ah dismiri Ellas, den anastithikes ak tou tafou, apla allakses tafon: Ap' ton
Othomanikon eis ton Hristianikon.
--Adamantios Korais.
Frappe Boy
behave in Greece but this was a pretty interesting article!
Finellach
> I don't have a keen interest in Albania outside of how its citizens
> behave in Greece but this was a pretty interesting article!
Interesting, but full of falsification. Albanians don't have nothing with
Illyrians but to claim Albanians are from Caucsus is even more ridiculous.
'Albania' is the latin name and it means 'land of the mountains' so Albania
in Causus has nothing to do with modern day Albania. Even Scotland was in
fact called 'Kingdom of Alba'....in translation 'Kingdom of Mountains'.
Moderrn day Albanians are descendants of old Epirotans and various other
Wallachian tribes. This also explains their language which is a huge mix of
Greek, Latin and Slavic words.
genc_ymeri
1. http://www.britannica.com/eb/article?tocId=42640
History > Antiquity > The Illyrians
The origins of the Albanian people are not definitely known, but data drawn
from history and from linguistic, archaeological, and anthropological
studies have led to the conclusion that Albanians are the direct descendants
of the ancient Illyrians and that the latter were natives of the lands they
inhabited. Similarly, the Albanian language derives from the.
2. Library of US Congress
http://lcweb2.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/r?frd/cstdy:@field(DOCID+al0014)
Most historians of the Balkans believe the Albanian people are in large part
descendants of the ancient Illyrians, who, like other Balkan peoples, were
subdivided into tribes and clans. The name Albania is derived from the name
of an Illyrian tribe called the Arber, or Arbereshė, and later Albanoi, that
lived near Durrės. The Illyrians were Indo-European tribesmen who appeared
in the western part of the Balkan Peninsula about 1000 B.C., a period
coinciding with the end of the Bronze Age and beginning of the Iron Age.
They inhabited much of the area for at least the next millennium.
Archaeologists associate the Illyrians with the Hallstatt culture, an Iron
Age people noted for production of iron and bronze swords with winged-shaped
handles and for domestication of horses. The Illyrians occupied lands
extending from the Danube, Sava, and Morava rivers to the Adriatic Sea and
the Sar Mountains. At various times, groups of Illyrians migrated over land
and sea into Italy..........................................
"Finellach" <krunosla...@hi.htnet.hr> wrote in message
news:d411v3$f2m$1...@ss405.t-com.hr...
Finellach
These two sources draws their own information from nationalistic Albanian
sites. Albanians can't be direct descendants of Illyrians because Illyrians
were not one homogenous people, but a many different tribes that lived from
Istria and Veneto down to northern parts of present day Albania and who
didn't even spoke the same language at first.Illyrians was the name applied
to these tribes by the Greeks. Also concluding anything on "Illyrian
language" is a hoax since Illyrians were first hellenized and then
romanized. If anything can be considered an "Illyrian langauge" those are
the old died-out Romance language dialects in Dalmatia and Istria.
The scientific research on Albanian language can leads only to one thing -
Albanians are mix of Greeks, Slavs and Latins(Thraco-Illyrian remants).
Also genetic studies showed exactly what I pointed out before. Albanians are
not homogenous but a mix of almost all European haplotypes and markers which
means that they certainly can't be "direct descendants" of anything but are
a mix of various people.
_HyllUs_
>soc.culture.greek, alt.news.macedonia, soc.culture.yugoslavia,
>soc.culture.albanian, soc.culture.europe
well man what else can you pretend more?
you know the last think i read about hellens:
the same think you said abaut albanians , the diference is that a read
this in the "universal enciclopedya" you in greek (or slavs or so
called by romans)forums
genc_ymeri
It seems that over here everyone has his/her own encyclopedia ......what
it's yours - "Finellach's true encyclopedia ?"
PS:
:Albanians can't be direct descendants of Illyrians because Illyrians
were not one homogenous people" : Who insisted they are anyhow? Even were
they not, your conclusion is not that logical ! Let suppose that Illyrians
were as mix as US today's population. Can't we say that after 1000 years a
large population of the future US will be direct descendant of today very
mix opopullation ?(assuming that migration will be in a certain limits ????)
Were hellenic tribes homogenous people ? And after all, why is nationalistic
for Albanians to say they are direct descendants of Illyrians ????
I
"Finellach" <krunosla...@hi.htnet.hr> wrote in message
news:d41nkc$glr$1...@ss405.t-com.hr...
Finellach
> well man what else can you pretend more?
> you know the last think i read about hellens:
>
> the same think you said abaut albanians , the diference is that a read
> this in the "universal enciclopedya" you in greek (or slavs or so
> called by romans)forums
???! LOL!
Finellach
> Finellach,
> It seems that over here everyone has his/her own encyclopedia
> ......what it's yours - "Finellach's true encyclopedia ?"
My "encyclopedia" are historical facts and scientific research not some made
up nationalistic pamplets...
> Who insisted they are anyhow?
You are. By citing sites that use terms such as "direct descendants of
Illyrians" and such crap. Even genetic studies showed they cannot be direct
descendants of anything since they are one of the most mixed nations in
Europe.
> Even
> were they not, your conclusion is not that logical ! Let suppose
> that Illyrians were as mix as US today's population. Can't we say
> that after 1000 years a large population of the future US will be
> direct descendant of today very mix opopullation ?(assuming that
> migration will be in a certain limits ????) Were hellenic tribes
> homogenous people ?
The thing is that Illyrians were living only in bordering regions of present
day Albania. They were mainly based in Bosnia and Dalmatia.
> And after all, why is nationalistic for Albanians
> to say they are direct descendants of Illyrians ???? I
Because based on that they claim huge parts of Balkans as something it's
"theirs".
The thing is that in the begining of the 20th century and late 19th century
linguists couldn't find any similar language in Europe and outside of Europe
similar to Albanian so they made up how they are "descendants of Illyrians".
Today we know Albanian is mix of Greek, Slavic and archaic Latin dialects.
Genetic research also showed extremly mixed population, historical facts
show Albanians were never homogenous people but various tribes that even at
times were at hundred years old blood feuds.
NON-Microsoft-User
It is not up to you to tell anyone the albanian history.
You don't know it.
If you new at it and still trying to learn and understand please do tell us
and we'll help you.
Otherwise,
You are full of shit...
Here's where you're wrong.
1. 1042 slavs were still migrating from north or maybe from east. They had
no state at that time in the Illyrian/Albanian territorry streaching from
"[Po] Vjen" to "Bukur-është" to "A-thinjë".
2. Don't say macedonia or macedonian. It's original name is Illyrian
province of Macedonia, people are called Illyrian or Albanian. Others are
slaves. They are new immigrants that came from the north.
3. Serbs did exist during Byzantine times.
4. City of Berat is the most developed ancient city in the world. None of
the albanian cities now in greece and country of Chameria have such a great
history still kept in good condition. The name of the city has been Berat
for last 6000 years. It was named by the Illyrians.
5. From Epirus to Nish to Ulcinj is the heart of the Albanian nation. Kosovo
is the Illyrian birth place.
6. Look, with all the evidence on the surface, and a lot of non-biased
american, canadian, english, french, german, indian, Japanese, doing their
own research and they are not getting the same conclusions as what the
books in their libraries by greek authors are suggesting. I am having a
hard time using the library evidence because the greek authors are now
loosing the trust they had in the academy. OK, I do use greek material
because not all of the fake. There is some truth in it. Actually I think
about 90 percent is true. But that 10 percent part being false make a big
difference. And thus is being completly ignored by some professors in the
west and far east.
7. I know you are going to call me foolish.
Nestor wrote:
> Whether the albanians are the descendants of Illyrians is a matter of a
> great debate, it is questianable and controversial.
No it is not.
We speak the same language, have the same culture, wear the same clothes,
cook the same meals, still keep the same traditions, we have the same
names. Even though there are Orthodox and Catholic and Moslem albanians
majority of people have Illyrian first names. We were very little affected
by arab or asian names like Abraham/Ibrahim, Joseph/Jusuf/Josip,
John/Gjon/Ioannes/Yochanan/YAHWEH
It sure does not make greeks or serbs Illyrian descendants. Does it. Is
there any other candidate? I know, they are a great nation aren't they? You
must be jealous.
> Some Albanians
> nationalists and fanatics would like to think so however. Similarly the
> Slav Skopians, would like to
> think that they are macedonians, Turks would like to think they are
> Europeans and several other ridiculus misconceptions. The common element
> between all those races is that they are currently occupying Greek land;
> with the Turks occupying the majority of Greek land.
>
It not races, it is nations.
You are paranoid. Turks will never cross the greek border. Greece is very
small compared to Turkey. And Turkish army alone is as big as the whole
greek and albanian population in greece. But don't you wory. It's gonna be
all right.
We are strong and brave, together we can keep the turks out of greek and
albanian popullated areas. You can count on that. We can call NATO in at
any such event can't we?
> Historians know that Albanians came from the Caspian Sea, near Caucasus.
> And that they mixed with Illyrians.
> Of course, Albanians tend to overlook that detail and assume they
> descent directly from Illyrians.
>
No they don't.
Historians know that albanian populus around the Black Sea, around the
Caspian Sea are the ablanian colonies.
You are saying like Englishmen migrated from South African Republic to
England and created U.K.. Or like Serbs migrated from Kosovo to Russia and
created Russian Federation!
> The Albanians are from the Caucasus, originally. Caucasian Albania was
> located on the eastern area of the Caucasus between the Caspian sea and
> the tips of the mountain ranges. Old Albania was known only for wild
> dogs and baren snow covered mountains, for which it received the name
> Albania by foreigners (Alba-white).
>
> One of the GREATEST PROOFS that Albanians do come from the Caucasus and
> that THEY ARE NOT the descendants of the Ancient Illyrians is the
> Turkish name for the Albanians. "Arnauti", which means "those who have
> not returned" in Arabic, for the Turks were aware of the origins of the
> Albanians. And they truly did not return, they stayed in Serbian and
> Byzantine lands.
Actually it is the other way around.
Albanians colonized Caucasus, the south shore of the Black Sea, and some
mountains near Tibet during ruling of the Greatest Albanian Alexander
(Leka) the Great.
BTW. There were no serbs during Byzantine times. You dumb greek historian.
>
> In turn, the Albanians did not use any of those names for themselves,
> but called themselves "shqiptari". The word "shqip" has many meanings in
> Albanian. It can mean "eagle" or "rocky hill". Austro-Hungarian
> anthropologists and philologists in early last century attempted to give
> the Albanians a noble character nd theorized that the "eagle" was the
> root meaning and totally ignored both modern Albania and Caucasian
> Albania as rocky, baren and poor places, which would allude to the
> notion of the former as being the root meaning for naming themselves.
But you are wrong. You are considering only albanians in Albania.
Albanians in Greece are called shqiptar,
(native, under organized terror by the rulling power),
Albanians in Country of Chameria are called shqiptar
(native, under organized terror by the rulling power),
Albanians in Illyrian Province Of Macedonia are called shqiptar,
(native),
Albanians in Serbia are called shqiptar,
(native, under organized terror by the rulling power),
Albanians in Southern Serbia are called shqiptar,
(native, under organized terror by the rulling power),
Albanians in Kosovo are called shqiptar,
(native),
Albanians in Eastern Kosovo are called shqiptar,
(native),
Albanians in Dalmacia are called shqiptar,
(native),
Albanians in Monternegro are called shqiptar,
(native),
Albanians in Calabria are called shqiptar,
(colony of Gjergj Kastrioti),
Albanians in Sicilia are called shqiptar,
(colony of Gjergj Kastrioti),
Albanians in near Tibet are called shqiptar,
(colony of Leka i Madh - Alexander the Great),
Albanians in around Black Sea are called shqiptar,
(colony of great albanian leader),
Albanians in around Caspian Sea are called shqiptar,
(colony of great albanian leader),
Not all territories are rocky.
> Is this just a greater Serbian quasi-history to cover up the noble
> Illyrian roots of Albanians? Not according to a contemporary od
> Maniakos, the Byzantine ruler who brought the Albanians to northern
> Epirus. Michael Ataliotos describes the events in his chronicle:
> "Historia, Corpus Scriptorum Historiae Byzantinae. Impensis ed. Neberi,
> Bonnae".
Yes it is. But it has some of the primitive greek historian twist in it.
What a dumb ass you are. Who was byzantine ruling? The whole Byzantine
territory was albanian territory. The whole population was albanian. You
dumb greek historian.
>
> In the republic of Georgia, in the Caucasus, on the terriory of the
> former Caucasian Albania, from where the Avar Khanate once had its
> capital, there is a village named: "Arnauti". This is the name by which
> Serbs, Greeks, Turks, FYR-Macedonians and Montenegrin Serbs refer to
> Albanians in their respective langauges. There is also village in
> Georgia named "Bushati" - which is the name of an Albanian tribe ("fis")
> around Lake Skadar. There are three villages named: "Geguti", "Gegeni"
> and "Gegi". "Ghegheni" is the name designated to Albanians who live
> north of the Shkumbi River in Albania proper.
Those are albanian colonies. They probably had a lot of memories from the
Shkumbini River area to their new land in Caucasus. You dumb greek
historian.
>
> The Albanians call themselves "Shqip-tari". This name is not
> Indo-European in origin and contains in it the Ural-Altaic suffix "ar"
> or "tar". Much like: "Khaz-AR", "Av-AR", "Magy-AR", "Bulg-AR",
> "Hung-AR", "Ta-TAR" - "Ship-TAR". Taken together with the
> Shqiptar-Albanian toponyms on the territory of the former Caucasian
> Albania, this theory on the etymology of "Shqipatr" becomes more
> plausable.
That's what you think. You dumb greek historian.
>
> When Aleander the Great conquered Asia minor, he took with him the great
> leader of the Albanian tribes and gave him as a present an Albanian dog.
> Among other things, Caucasian Albania did not attract conquerors,
> because of its poverty and difficult terrain.
What are you talking about? Are you sick?
Alexander the Great was Albanian, as well as Philip. Are you jealous?
You dumb greek historian.
>
> With the comming of the Arabs, they converted the Old Albanians in the
> 8th century to Islam. But meanwhile, at the time, the Arabs were waging
> campaigns in Sicily, dividing it into two parts, (hence there was the
> Kingom of the two Sicilies). In order to populate their part of Sicily,
> the Arabs brought with them Old Albanians from the Caucasus. To this
> day, their descendants live in Sicily.
Islam???? on the 8th century? in europe? You dumb greek historian.
>
> Then in 1042, the Byzantine Empire attacked the yong Serbian state after
> having defeated the Arabs in Sicily and having brought the Sicilian
> Albanians under their command and christianizing them. The leader of the
> Byzantines who led the Albanians was named Georgius Maniakos. Maniakos
> brought Albanian mercenaries from Sicily to fight the Serbs and they
> settled in two waves in modern day Albania, first the mercanaries came,
> and then came the women and children.
No. First they brought woman and children with odd numbered tickets and then
even numbered. You dumb greek historian.
Albanians colonized southern Italy during 14th century. Are using the
cocaine you are trafficking into Albanian territories? You seem to be quite
sick!
There was no serbian state in 1042. Serbs did not exist then yet.
> After the defeat of Maniakos, the
> Byzantines would not let the Albanians return, thus the Albanians
> requested that the Serbs let them stay on the land. They settled under
> mount Raban and the city of Berat and from this, the Serbs called them
> "Rabanasi" or "Arbanasi". The city of Berat was known as Belgrad also,
> before the Albanians came to settle there. They mostly tended sheep and
> cattle and lent themselves out to Serbian nobles as brave soldiers.
City of Berat is the most developed ancient city in the world. None of the
albanian cities now in greece and country of Chameria have such a great
history still kept in good condition. The name of the city has been Berat
for last 6000 years. It was named by the Illyrians. There is no evidence
the serbs or slavs in general existed at that time.
>
>
>
> The original URAL-ALTAIC speaking Caucasian Shqiptar-Albanians were part
> of the AVAR KHANATE which had one of its early capitals in Caucasian
> Albania (hence Albanian topnyms there, the possible Ural-Altaic
> etymology of the suffix in the word "Shqip-tar" and the similarities in
> national costume with Caucasian peoples - the non-Indo-European
> Georgians, in particular).
That is where we have spread our culture to. We helped those regions
civilize a lot faster.
>
> The original Shqiptar-Albanian group of AVARS settled in Northern
> Romania and subjugated the Latin speaking peoples of that area when the
> Avars entered Europe and conquered most of its Eastern part. Over time
> they assimilated most of the Latin language of the people they
> conquered, but imposed their name on their new subjects - just like the
> Bulg-AR tribe did in Thrace. This explains why modern Albanian has
> simmilarities to the Romance languages of Romania. This Ship-tar Av-ar
> tribe, I believe, moved south as far as Epirus from where the Avars are
> recorded as staging their failed attack on Constantinople.
Epirus is the heart of the Albanian nation.
>
> So, by the time the Avar Khanate was defeated by the armies of Serbs and
> Croats and Charles the Great in the 7th century, the Avars had reached
> south as far as EPIRUS from where they based this failed attack on
> Constantinople!!! In Epirus, this Shqiptar-Avar tribe assimilated the
> Illyrians and Hellens of Epirus, as they had done to the Latin speakers
> of Northern Romania more than a century earlier.
>
Serbs did not exist until the 11th or 12th century.
genc_ymeri
> made
> up nationalistic pamplets...
Hope that Brittanica and US Library will recognise your "non-nationalistic
studies" to drop their own researches.....
PS:
"Albanians can't be direct descendants of Illyrians because Illyrians
were not one homogenous people" : Who insisted they were [HOMOGENOUS
PEOPLE] anyhow?
Finellach
> Hope that Brittanica and US Library will recognise your
> "non-nationalistic studies" to drop their own researches.....
I don't care what they'll aceppt, they will publish whatever fits their
agenda and who pays them more...
There are hundreds of sites and each has it's own shit...thats the "beauty"
of the internet.
> Who insisted they were [HOMOGENOUS
> PEOPLE] anyhow?
You insist. I am saying "homogenous people" to put it in simple lain words
that they were not one people, but that 'Illyrian' is a name and designation
for various groups of people who lived from Veneto to Ioanian Sea.
genc_ymeri
"Finellach" <krunosla...@hi.htnet.hr> wrote in message
news:d43q9a$ep4$1...@ss405.t-com.hr...
Canë Hasanaj
Your hate against other people?
"Nestor" <iape...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:6487963a.0504...@posting.google.com...
Nestor
To claim that you are descendant of the ancient "Illyrians" is a
fairytale that serves one and only purpose: To claim huge portions of
the Balkan Paninsula.
But beware shqiptar; maybe our politicians are corrupt and immorale,
but don't bet your money on it: because suddenly you are gonna loose
everything you have gained till now.
Greece is not Serbia and no NATO can aid you cause we are part of it.
300 modern fighter jets can bomb your pathetic country to the stone age
and beyond...
Behave squiptar and keep in mind: The Hellenic Northern Epirus is not
Kossovo and Hellas is not Srbija.
The albanian immigrants who "work" here feed your pathetic
banana-republic. 15 million Euros travel from Hellas to albania each
day. Imagine to deport all of your kind back to albania. So better
behave yourselves or else....
Here, shqiptar, enjoy the photos...there are also some very beautiful
anniversary aircraft paint-schemes.
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/933884/L/
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/936696/L/
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/937781/L/
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/933668/L/
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/933665/L/
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/936432/L/
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/805667/L/
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/944263/L/
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/949168/L/
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/950645/L/
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/952635/L/
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/935432/L/
http://www.haf.gr/en/media/?PageSize=20&page=1
http://www.haf.gr/media/airshow/haf/static/airshow_1610.jpg
http://www.haf.gr/en/media/item.asp?id=54
http://www.haf.gr/en/media/item.asp?id=26
http://www.haf.gr/en/media/item.asp?id=41
Nestor,
emtas
in "BLACK ATHENA" as the definitive work on the ancient Greeks!!!
"Nestor" <iape...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1131382463.1...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
Nestor
Ο/Η emtas έγραψε:
> Hey Nestor! If you believe the drivel you expound - then you must believe
> in "BLACK ATHENA" as the definitive work on the ancient Greeks!!!
>
that the Hellenes were black and that they "stole" the knowledge
from...."Africa"?
LMAO!
On the contrary you have no connections with Illyrians, who were partly
Hellenes. The best scenario for you is that you are a mixture of Avars
and Slavs.
Nestor,
Mimi
> On the contrary you have no connections with Illyrians, who were partly
> Hellenes. The best scenario for you is that you are a mixture of Avars
> and Slavs.
>
Sorry for interupting this joyfull session of insults.
Nestor, you appear to be competent about the subject of Illyrians. I might
change the subject of your discussion on Albanians and I might go off topic,
still, I find the subject of Illyrians interesting and I'd appreciate if you
enlight me on background and/or destiny of this people.
You say that Illyrians were partly Hellenes. I understand that east adriatic
islands Corcyra (present Korcula), Pharos (present Hvar) and Lissus (present
Vis) which represent the exact places where Roman empire conquers during
Illyrian wars, took place were partly inhabited by Hellenes.
Is that the Illyrian-Hellenic "link" you are reffering to ?
Nestor
Ο/Η Mimi έγραψε:
> >
> > On the contrary you have no connections with Illyrians, who were partly
> > Hellenes. The best scenario for you is that you are a mixture of Avars
> > and Slavs.
> >
>
>
> Sorry for interupting this joyfull session of insults.
>
> Nestor, you appear to be competent about the subject of Illyrians. I might
> change the subject of your discussion on Albanians and I might go off topic,
> still, I find the subject of Illyrians interesting and I'd appreciate if you
> enlight me on background and/or destiny of this people.
>
Humble thanks, i'll do my best.
> You say that Illyrians were partly Hellenes.
Even the name "Illyria" means "The land of Lyra". Lyra was the ancient
Hellenic instrument. Illyria=the land of Lyra.
> I understand that east adriatic
> islands Corcyra (present Korcula), Pharos (present Hvar) and Lissus (present
> Vis) which represent the exact places where Roman empire conquers during
> Illyrian wars, took place were partly inhabited by Hellenes.
>
I would say "mostly". Especially Kerkyra ( Corfu).
> Is that the Illyrian-Hellenic "link" you are reffering to ?
Many Hellenic populations were living in the land of Lyra. Illyria was
"Hellenized" in a much greater extend than, lets say, Thrace. I'll be
able to give you more details in a couple of days, i hope. Meanwhile
maybe Agamemnon knows something more about this issue. It would be
great if he could shed a bit of light upon this issue.
Later my friend,
Nestor
Nestor
"Milan"?
Cheers,
Nestor,
Costas Spyronikolapapahatziharambosdimitropoulakis
Agamensknob, shed light ?
Argyrou can't shed light, Led SHite would be more likely *LOL*
Costas Spyronikolapapahatziharambosdimitropoulakis
The DUMB leading the DUMB
Priceless !
Mimi
> I forgot to ask you something: Is Mimi a nick-name for the name
> "Milan"?
>
Nope.
I took this nick as a tribute to one sailboat skipper. I wanted to remind
myself of how our human ambition shouldn't necessarily be limited by our
knowledge (knowledge of sailing in his case).
It's a long story as you can assume...
Mimi
> The DUMB leading the DUMB
>
Having a bad hair day ?
Mimi
>> I understand that east adriatic
>> islands Corcyra (present Korcula), Pharos (present Hvar) and Lissus
> I would say "mostly". Especially Kerkyra ( Corfu).
>
>> Is that the Illyrian-Hellenic "link" you are reffering to ?
>
> Many Hellenic populations were living in the land of Lyra. Illyria was
> "Hellenized" in a much greater extend than, lets say, Thrace.
>
Hmmm... I remember meeting one native guy on the island of Vis (Lissus) who
claimed to have greek ancestry.
You were also mentioning Habsburg monarchy historians and their view on
Illyrians. Still there seem to be a controversy over the level of Illyrian
"fusion" with Slavs once they moved to Adriatic, and that's my point of
interest.
Romans, who conquered Illyrians in 3rd century were mentioning tribes with
names Dalmatae, Liburnae, Histriae, Venetae. Apparently, these names
correspond to nowadays Dalmatia, Istria and Venetia. Though submitted to
Roman rulling, Illiricum existed as a province.
Even today, along the coast and in hinterlands a rather strange piles of
stones exist (some up to 20 meters) that noone touches since the word is
that those are the burrial sites of ancient Illyrians. On the island of Brac
a fortress partly carved into the stone has been preserved for which it is
beleived to be an example of Illyrian architecture of that time. Please,
navigate to http://www.dalmacija.hr/Default.aspx?tabid=190 the picture is
rather small but you can get the idea. On the very same page it is written
(in croatian) that hellenic colonisation of those islands took place 4 B.C.
which might give some grounds to your story. They are also mentioning
Illyrian rulers Pleurat, Agron, Teuta and Demetrius.
Liburnae tribe seemed to be lost with roman conquest in favour of Dalmatae
and presently are the only one of mentioned tribes that no regional group
identifies itself with. I am amazed, however, that this name has been
somehow preserved and even nowadays for example, you can find a number of
small enterprises or public companies named after Liburnia in the area of
Zadar (Zara) and Rijeka (Fiume). Unlike present Dalmatians, Istrians or
Venetians there exist no people that would say that they are Liburnians.
fra Ante
> I took this nick as a tribute to one sailboat skipper. I wanted to remind
> myself of how our human ambition shouldn't necessarily be limited by our
> knowledge (knowledge of sailing in his case).
>
> It's a long story as you can assume...
Por el amor de Dios! Para mi sorpresa, MIMIcito habla Ingles muy bien!
fraile Antonio
Leandros
>Agamensknob, shed light ?
>
>Argyrou can't shed light, Led SHite would be more likely *LOL*
>
>
>
Help me Seanie, I need my pipes cleaned :-)
Leandros
>The DUMB leading the DUMB
>
>Priceless !
>
>
>
Seanie pleeese I need my pipes cleaned
Mikrotuki
Ask you Granddaddy how are the Albanians.
You fighter plans are like children toys
You hellens are the same shit like the sllav or serbs you are stilling
other people history
UCK
Regards arska FIN
HELLENS ARE PAPGALLOS !!!!!!!
ﻡжiЯפ Я ©®@ρ
Hellens are the mongrels of the Balkan heap