Google Groups no longer supports new Usenet posts or subscriptions. Historical content remains viewable.
Dismiss

Servian Fascist Three Finger Salute

97 views
Skip to first unread message

Barry S. Marjanovich

unread,
Mar 7, 1997, 3:00:00 AM3/7/97
to

The New York Times, January 2, 1997:

Letters to the Editor

The Dec. 19 letter, taking issue with my reference (letter, Dec. 15) to
the Serbian three-finger salute as fascist, says Serbian students use the
salute as "a gesture of Christian defiance" against the rule of President
Slobodan Milosevic of Serbia. In fact, some students in the democratic
opposition refuse to use it. Here is some documented support for my
reference: This salute was used to swear in troops of the Nedic-Ljotic
Nazi collaborationist regime in Belgrade, Serbia, that was complicit in
the Holocaust; Vuk Draskovic, a leader in today's Serbian opposition,
included a photo of this swearing-in in his party publication in 1995 to
show the salute's historical continuity and legitimacy. The salute now
adorns his party's posters. The gesture is commonly recognized as a sign
of Serbian supremacy in rallies by supporters of Radovan Karadzic and
Ratko Mladic, the Bosnian Serb leaders now under indictment for genocide,
and by soldiers under their command. Survivors of that genocide report
being forced to use the salute during torture, rape and killing by Serbian
forces. Neo-Nazis in Germany today, denied the Hitler salute by German
law, use the three-fingered salute in its place. None of these are
religious practices. When Orthodox Christians cup three fingers to make
the sign of cross, they are not using the Serbian fascist three-finger
salute. Nor are those who use it praying.


C.A. MacKinnon
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

John Landry

unread,
Mar 8, 1997, 3:00:00 AM3/8/97
to

While in Bosnia last year, I was repeatedly told that the three
finger salute was supposed to mean death to all muslims.

Petar Sosic

unread,
Mar 8, 1997, 3:00:00 AM3/8/97
to

Detta är ett multipart-meddelande i MIME-format.

------=_NextPart_000_01BC2BF8.234772A0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

John Landry <j...@nbnet.nb.ca> skrev i inlägg <332185...@nbnet.nb.ca>...


> While in Bosnia last year, I was repeatedly told that the three
> finger salute was supposed to mean death to all muslims.
>

That is in fact typical argument used by those who are trying to discredit
everything about Serbs. Three finger is for Holy Trinity, nothing else.

------=_NextPart_000_01BC2BF8.234772A0
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html><head></head><BODY bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF"><p><font size=3D2 =
color=3D"#000000" face=3D"Arial"><br><br><br><br>John Landry &lt;<font =
color=3D"#0000FF"><u>j...@nbnet.nb.ca</u><font color=3D"#000000">&gt; =
skrev i inl=E4gg &lt;<font =
color=3D"#0000FF"><u>332185...@nbnet.nb.ca</u><font =
color=3D"#000000">&gt;...<br>&gt; While in Bosnia last year, I was =
repeatedly told that the three <br>&gt; finger salute was supposed to =
mean death to all muslims.<br>&gt;<br> That is in fact typical argument =
used by those who are trying to discredit everything about Serbs. Three =
finger is for Holy Trinity, nothing else. </p>
</font></font></font></font></font></body></html>
------=_NextPart_000_01BC2BF8.234772A0--


Johnny Byrne

unread,
Mar 9, 1997, 3:00:00 AM3/9/97
to

Another own goal by the Mad Cro, Barmy Satan...

> finger salute. Nor are those who use it praying.
>
>
> C.A. MacKinnon

This ill-informed garbage was discredited the moment it appeared in
print. MacKinnon, a notorious Serb-hating feminist, illustrates the
depths to which American academia has sunk (Michael $ells is another
example) in pursuit of their disgusting vendetta against the Serbian
people, their religion and culture. Any gross accusation against the
Serbs, no matter how unproven, is accepted as established fact. Any lie,
the bigger the better, once uttered, becomes unshakeable truth. The
intelligent liars, including the high profile media dissemblers, often
privately admit that they knowingly lie to demonise the Serbs, but
justify it in the name of serving a `Higher Truth', i.e, the
pre-judgement that the fears, hopes and aspirations of the Serbian people
are somehow intrinsically evil.

The lies published by MacKinnon in her letter fall into a different
category - the lowest form of ignorant stupidity. They were exposed by,
among others, John Peter Maher, professor Emeritus of linguistics, NE
Illinois Univ. Prof. Maher is fluent in Balkan languages, and an expert
on the cultures and history of the region. It was Professor Maher, for
instance, who exposed the media myth (another favourite of Barry's) that
Dubrovnik's old town had been levelled by `Serbian' artillery.

Here is Prof. Maher's response to the politically correct academic
numbskull, MacKinnon.

- Johnny Byrne

__________________________

Professor Catherine A. MacKinnon
University of Michigan Law School
625 S. State Street
924 Legal Research
Ann Arbor, MI 48109-1215
tel 313/647-3595
FAX: 313/764-8309

Professor McKinnon:

A few years ago you were guest speaker at a feminist gathering in
Chicago. You spoke of the tens of thousands of rapes by Serbs on Muslim
women. Where are all the babies? What evil genius ran the logistics? How
much was the budget? Where are the babies? How many abortions were there?
Logistics, again?

The CROATIAN FEMINIST VESNA KESIC, in THE FEMINIST MAGAZINE "Off Our
Backs," rebutted you and the rest of the pack, saying your numbers were
fake, and that the whole campaign was designed as a racist pogrom against
the Serbs. By, of course, the neo-Nazi and Islamist enemies and their New
World Order backers.

Now, you again exceed your competence, and your bigotry is matched only
by your ignorance of scholarly data. By now you will have heard of the
Trinitarian symbolism of the Serbs' 3-finger salute. In my opinion, this
is only partly correct, as there is iconographic evidence, Christian and
Classical, for a pre-Christian origin. but it is a fact that it is one of
several variants. Thumb, forefinger, and middle finger feature also in
the Croatian and German oath-taking, whereas in English the palm is
raised. - In your semiotics our court room gesture in swearing an oath
would be a Nazi saute.

Do not embarass yourself further repeating incompetent arguments put in
you ear by coaches whose identity you suppress. Not good scholarly form.
Read, for starters, "Gestures" by Desmond Morris et al., as well as the
article of the same name in the Oxford Classical Dictionary. Get thee to
a library.

Your "Serbian fascist salute" is performed also in oath taking by Croats,
Germans, Poles, and Catholic priests. The Polish military salute also
consists in putting these three fingers to the bill of the cap.

In bestowing benediction, the pope uses precisely those three fingers,
sweeping the right hand in a cruciform pattern. Ante Pavelic swore by it,
too. Open your eyes, and a book or two.

John Peter Maher Ph. D.
Profesor Emeritus of Linguistics
NE Illinois University
Chicago IL

_________________________________________

M. Choice

unread,
Mar 10, 1997, 3:00:00 AM3/10/97
to


John Landry <j...@nbnet.nb.ca> escribió en artículo


<332185...@nbnet.nb.ca>...
> While in Bosnia last year, I was repeatedly told that the three
> finger salute was supposed to mean death to all muslims.
>

Who tell you that ? ...Of course a muslim !

John Landry

unread,
Mar 10, 1997, 3:00:00 AM3/10/97
to M. Choice

<HTML><BODY>
M. Choice wrote:&nbsp;

<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE>John Landry &lt;j...@nbnet.nb.ca&gt; escribi&oacute;
en art&iacute;culo
<BR>&lt;332185...@nbnet.nb.ca&gt;...
<BR><I>&gt; While in Bosnia last year, I was repeatedly told that the three</I>
<BR><I>&gt; finger salute was supposed to mean death to all muslims.</I>
<BR><I>&gt;</I>
<BR>
<BR>Who tell you that ? ...Of course a muslim !
</BLOCKQUOTE>
&nbsp;Bosniaks and Croats!
<BR>
<BR>

</BODY>
</HTML>


Barry S. Marjanovich

unread,
Mar 10, 1997, 3:00:00 AM3/10/97
to

How The Satan Of Servia Started It All

DATE=2/9/96
TYPE=CLOSEUP
NUMBER=4-08898
TITLE='YUGOSLAVIA: DEATH OF A NATION'
BYLINE=PAMELA TAYLOR
TELEPHONE=619-1101
DATELINE=WASHINGTON
EDITOR=PHIL HAYNES

INTRO: ONE OF THE MORE IMPORTANT BOOKS ABOUT THE DISINTEGRATION
OF THE FORMER YUGOSLAVIA WAS JUST RELEASED IN
CONJUNCTION WITH THE WIDELY ACCLAIMED TELEVISION
DOCUMENTARY 'THE DEATH OF YUGOSLAVIA'. THE BOOK, WRITTEN
BY JOURNALISTS LAURA SILBER OF LONDON'S FINANCIAL TIMES
AND ALLAN LITTLE OF THE BBC, IS TITLED 'YUGOSLAVIA:
DEATH OF A NATION'. IT WAS PUBLISHED BY T-V BOOKS IN NEW
YORK. VOA'S PAMELA TAYLOR TALKED WITH LAURA SILBER ABOUT
THE BOOK CRITICS ARE CALLING A DAMNING PORTRAIT OF MEN
WHO FANNED THE FLAMES OF NATIONALISM AND WAR OUT OF A
REALIZATION THEY COULD NOT STAY IN POWER A FREE-MARKET
DEMOCRACY.

PT: LAURA, AS YOU KNOW A LOT OF REVIEWERS HAVE PRAISED THIS
BOOK AND SAID THAT NOT ONLY DOES IT -- AND THE TV
DOCUMENTARY --PROVIDE A UNIQUE AND DAMNING HISTORY OF
HOW THIS TERRIBLE WAR GOT STARTED, BUT YOUR BOOK SHOWS
HOW SERBIAN PRESIDENT SERBIAN PRESIDENT SLOBODAN
MILOSEVIC WAS THE PRIME MOVER. AS IN THE TV
DOCUMENTARY, YOU MANAGED TO DO THIS BY USING THE WORDS
OF SERB LEADERS THEMSELVES. WHICH INTERVIEWS SURPRISED
YOU THE MOST BY WHAT THE PERSON YOUR WERE TALKING TO
INADVERTENTLY REVEALED?

LS: WELL, I WOULD SAY THAT WITHOUT A DOUBT THAT WAS BORISAV
JOVIC [YOH-VITCH], ONE OF MILOSEVIC'S CLOSEST AIDES
SINCE HIS RISE TO POWER. I'M NOT SURE HE INADVERTENTLY
REVEALED IT, I THINK HE DECIDED TO REVEAL IT BECAUSE HE
SENSED MILOSEVIC WAS GOING TO TURN HIS BACK ON HIM.
TIME AND TIME AGAIN WE CONDUCTED FROM 15 TO 16 HOURS OF
OFF THE RECORD INTERVIEWS WITH BORISAV JOVIC AND THEN
FILMED HIM AS WELL LATER ON. AND IT WAS AMAZING TO SEE
JUST HOW MUCH HE WAS WILLING TO TALK ABOUT, HOW MUCH IT
WAS 'WELL, MILOSEVIC AND I DID THIS AND SLOBO AND I DID
THAT' AND THERE WERE TIMES HE REALLY GAVE US REAL
INSIGHT INTO HOW DECISIONS WERE MADE AND WHAT STEPS THE
DECIDED TO TAKE AT A CERTAIN POINT. EVEN BEFORE THE
WAR, THE DECISION TO WAGE WAR. HE REALLY GAVE US THE
MOST INSIGHT OF ANYONE WE TALKED TO.

PT: AND SPECIFICALLY HE SAID SOMETHING I CERTAINLY HADN'T
HEARD SPELLED OUT SO CONCRETELY BEFORE, AND THAT IS WHEN
HE SAID A DECISION WAS TAKEN IN BELGRADE TO ARM THE
BOSNIAN SERBS AND THE SERBS IN KRAJINA?

LS: I THINK ONE OF THE REASONS THE SERBIAN REGIME DOESN'T
LIKE THIS DOCUMENTARY PARTICULARLY IS IT REMINDS THEM
WHAT HAPPENED 5 YEARS AGO, 6 YEARS AGO AND RIGHT NOW ALL
THE REGIMES IN THE FORMER YUGOSLAVIA ARE LOOKING FOR A
CASE OF COLLECTIVE AMNESIA. AND SO WHAT HAPPENED IN
THIS PARTICULAR INSTANCE IS THAT JOVIC IS TELLING US,
'WELL WE MADE THIS DECISION. WE MADE THE DECISION TO
HAVE REALLY WHAT AMOUNTED TO A PHONY PULLOUT OF THE
YUGOSLAV ARMY IN APRIL 1992, MAY 1992, AFTER THE WAR HAD
ALREADY STARTED IN THE FORMER YUGOSLAVIA.' WHAT THEY
DID WAS TRANSFER ALL THE SERB ARMY OFFICERS WHO WERE
NATIVES OF BOSNIA BACK TO BOSNIA AND ALONG WITH THEIR
EQUIPMENT. SO WHEN THE YUGOSLAV ARMY PULLED OUT IN MAY
1992, THEY LEFT AN ARMY THERE READY TO WAGE WAR.

PT: YOU ALSO SAID SOMETHING ABOUT WHAT YOU CALLED 'THE
RADIANT GLARE OF NATIONALISM BEING MORE ATTRACTIVE TO
ORDINARY SERBS THAN THE PROMISE OF AN IMPROVED ECONOMY,
NEW CARS, FOREIGN TRAVEL ETC. TELL US ABOUT THAT.

LS: AT THAT TIME YUGOSLAVIA HAD SORT OF A BURST OF
PROSPERITY AND THERE WERE A LOT OF EXPORTED GOODS IN
YUGOSLAVIA. THERE WAS REALLY A SENSE THAT MAYBE ECONOMIC
CRISES COULD BE PUT BEHIND THEM. YUGOSLAVIA SEEMED AT
THAT POINT VERY WELL POSITIONED TO MAKE THE TRANSITION
IN EUROPE. SO WHAT HAPPENED WAS THAT PRESIDENT
MILOSEVIC WAS STIRRING UP NATIONALISM, HE GAVE THEM AN
ALTERNATIVE. HE SAID TO THEM, 'WELL, THIS WAS ALL
SURPRESSED FOR SO LONG AND NOW YOU HAVE THE OPTION TO
SAY YOU ARE SERBS AGAIN'. AND THAT'S WHAT THESE PEOPLE
FELT WAS SURPRESSED. MILOSEVIC DIDN'T CREATE THE
NATIONALIST SENTIMENTS. THEY WERE THERE BUT HAD NEVER
BEEN DIFUSED OR DEALT WITH UNDER TITO'S COMMUNIST
REGIME. SO MILOSEVIC WAS JUST MANIPULATING THEM AND
IGNIGHTING FEARS AND SAYING 'IF YOU MAKE THIS CHOICE AND
SACRIFICE EVERYTHING YOU WILL HAVE NATIONAL DIGNITY'.

NEB/PAM/PCH

09-Feb-96 4:04 PM EST (2104 UTC)
NNNN

Source: Voice of America
.
SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS


Leon Maglic

unread,
Mar 11, 1997, 3:00:00 AM3/11/97
to

Ja sam vidio da se u Abaniji demonstranti pozdravljaju s tri prsta.

Da li to znaci da su Albanci ustvari Srbi ili su mozda Srbi Albanci.

Flatline


Dream Master

unread,
Mar 11, 1997, 3:00:00 AM3/11/97
to

Leon Maglic (Leon....@brod.sfsb.hr) wrote:
: Ja sam vidio da se u Abaniji demonstranti pozdravljaju s tri prsta.

: Da li to znaci da su Albanci ustvari Srbi ili su mozda Srbi Albanci.

: Flatline

Ma jebiga, ja video isto u Iraku jos 1982 godine kad sam bio klinac.
Bice... da su to sve jedna ista govna :)


--
|=|
-------------------------------ooO-( 0 0 )-Ooo------------------------------
Dragutin Cvetkovic (_) arge...@zmajtech.hobbiton.co.yu
Beograd drag...@slin.aubg.bg
Yugoslavia arge...@galeb.etf.bg.ac.yu
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

holy Omnisia

unread,
Mar 14, 2023, 9:45:18 PM3/14/23
to
hello from 20 years in the future
0 new messages