Yugoslavia's communist experience
Mark Vojnic
profile its prewar Communist movement and compare it with other Communist
led countries. I have a number of good books on the subject already. Any
books, information or knowledge that anyone could contribute to this
subject would be greatly appreciated. Thanx
e-mail
m.vo...@utoronto.ca
to...@iac.net
: I am doing an essay on Yugoslavia's communist experience.
: Any books, information or knowledge that anyone could contribute to this
It sucked! Big time! It is the main source of all present-day misery.
No less. No more.
Tony
Mark Vojnic
profile its prewar Communist movement and compare it with other Communist
subject would be greatly appreciated. Thanx
e-mail
m.vo...@utoronto.ca
Mark Vojnic
MV
gtod...@haverford.edu
>Mark Vojnic (mark....@utoronto.ca) wrote:
>: I am doing an essay on Yugoslavia's communist experience.
>: Any books, information or knowledge that anyone could contribute to this
>
>No less. No more.
>
>Tony
Really? So I suppose that the communists went around the country with mind
zappers and made everyone accept their raving.
Come on, get real. It is that within people which allows them to accept the
fraud that the communists perpetrated, as well as the fraud that their ethno-
fascist leaders are perpetrating now, that is the cause of all present-day
misery. Communists just took advantage of the deeply engrained envy and
dishonesty of your average "proletarian." As did Milosevic, Tudjman, et al.
It's the same as with con-men taking advantage of those who want something
for nothing. "This deal is too good to pass up!" Well, it's also "too good to be
true."
Gordan
to...@iac.net
: >It sucked! Big time! It is the main source of all present-day misery.
: >No less. No more.
: Really? So I suppose that the communists went around the country with mind
: zappers and made everyone accept their raving.
I expressed my opinion. When I express what I think was a common, widespread
'peoples opinion' ( if you like) which is not necessarily the same as my
own, then I usually indicate it explicitly in my posts.
If this opinion could represent any particular group of people in ex-Yu I
would call them non-conformists capable of independent thought.
: Come on, get real. It is that within people which allows them to accept the
: fraud that the communists perpetrated, as well as the fraud that their ethno-
: fascist leaders are perpetrating now, that is the cause of all present-day
: misery. Communists just took advantage of the deeply engrained envy and
: dishonesty of your average "proletarian." As did Milosevic, Tudjman, et al.
I can not agree more with you. I often argue against naive interpretations
posted here, where, in this or that case, everything supposedly boils down
to a bad guy who was/is a leader. This brought me characterizations of being
a racist and a Nazi so I guess my sense of reality is truly strange.:-)
But I presume you can not read posts in Croatian.
Tony
superzap
>gtod...@haverford.edu wrote:
>: >It sucked! Big time! It is the main source of all present-day misery.
>: >No less. No more.
>: Really? So I suppose that the communists went around the country with mind
>: zappers and made everyone accept their raving.
Well I don't know...I still remember when Tito's picture seemed to be
in every place of business that I visited in the former Yugoslavia (at
least in Montenegro and Croatia). I think it was a law that you had
to put his picture up....and this was even after Tito was dead.
>If this opinion could represent any particular group of people in ex-Yu I
>would call them non-conformists capable of independent thought.
>: Come on, get real. It is that within people which allows them to accept the
>: fraud that the communists perpetrated, as well as the fraud that their ethno-
>: fascist leaders are perpetrating now, that is the cause of all present-day
>: misery. Communists just took advantage of the deeply engrained envy and
>: dishonesty of your average "proletarian." As did Milosevic, Tudjman, et al.
It isn't as easy to "fight the system" as people think. A lot of
people did reject Tito's view of communism/socialism (my wife refused
to join the communist party when "they" came around to ask her to join
in school, but she didn't live in a little village, she lived along
the coast in a tourist area, so nothing happened to her). But when
there is only one person to vote for on the ballot (and these people
control the economy, the army and the press) there is not much that
you can do about it...except maybe leave, which a lot of people did.
>I can not agree more with you. I often argue against naive interpretations
>posted here, where, in this or that case, everything supposedly boils down
>to a bad guy who was/is a leader. This brought me characterizations of being
>a racist and a Nazi so I guess my sense of reality is truly strange.:-)
>But I presume you can not read posts in Croatian.
I can't read Croatian either (although I get my wife to translate once
in a while)...but I could tell you were getting attacked cause your
name kept showing up in these posts...people don't usually mention a
person's name a lot if they are saying good things about them. :-)
>Tony
-SZ-
to...@iac.net
: It isn't as easy to "fight the system" as people think. A lot of
: people did reject Tito's view of communism/socialism (my wife refused
: to join the communist party when "they" came around to ask her to join
: in school, but she didn't live in a little village, she lived along
: the coast in a tourist area, so nothing happened to her).
It is difficult only if you are in minority. When I was asked in school
to become the member of the Communist Party I simply refused. Sure. I
too lived in the tourist area on the coast and nothing happened to me.
Once my school principal invited my parents for a serious conversation
following some things I wrote in the Croatian Literature class. I wrote
that the sons of the Generals and Army officials should be shot and run
over by motor-bikes. At that time I was not even nationality-conscious,
considering the fact that these 'General's sons' were typically Serbs.
I simply noted how arrogant they were and reacted in the way you can
expect from somebody who was 15 at the time.
Oh, by the way, in the class one year older than mine was also the
daughter of Jovan Raskovic, famous Serbian Krajina leader, then and
forever an example of the Serbian 'cultural superiority' and arrogance.
In any case, my school principal was simply a rational man who tried to
get my parents control me more and prevent any future incidents of this kind.
My father was very concerned and later tried to explain me how 'going against
the stream' won't do me any good and can put his job and my future in
jeopardy.
Nobody, but absolutely nobody in my class then was in any way capable to
grasp the mentality I was projecting, nonwithstanding the classic puberty
caused nonconformism that you can expect from somobody 15 years old. Most
of my classmates were born conformists, puberty or no, and even nowadays
seem hardly capable of grasping the concept of conformism or non-conformism.
All of these people are now decent Croatians and I bet many of them go to
church nowadays, even if in those days they were prohibited to do so by
their parents and they obeyed with no problems.
So, I am the last one to have doubts that general populace loved Communism
and accepted it without the need for zappers.
: But when
: there is only one person to vote for on the ballot (and these people
: control the economy, the army and the press) there is not much that
: you can do about it...except maybe leave, which a lot of people did.
I repeat, people leave because their neighbors and majority support a
small number of those who are in charge.
People leave because they are in minority.
Those who controlled things were never a majority. Typically they were a
family or a bunch of eventually interrelated peasants who had the
reputation of being the most bloodthirsty and agressive of all the
peasants in the village.
So, other peasants loved them and obeyed them because the peasant
mentality bows to power, injustice and advantages of the mighty ones,
hoping that one day they will be able to get into the same position or
gain some special favors due to their servility.
Then again, this is nothing specific to Communism or ex-Yugoslavia.
Check any aspect of American life and you'll see the same things everywhere.
The real difference is in how big is that little loophole that this
mentality leaves for 'the others' to survive.
Tony