Zagreb Diary
pnmi...@igc.org
From: <pnmideast>
Subject: Zagreb Diary
/* Written 12:58 pm Apr 28, 1992 by gn:ark in cdp:yugo.antiwar */
/* ---------- "Zagreb Diary" ---------- */
Subject: Zagreb Diary
Zagreb Diary -26 April
The last days were rather intense, there were a lot of westerners
(about 12) coming for the Green and peace Forum we organized in the
last part of last week (Wednesday until Sunday). Due to the enourmous
amount of refugees in Zagreb (about 30.000 officially) we weren't able
to get things organized the way it had to be, but who will blame us in
wartime. It is at least something that we get anything organized
around here.
After coming back from Ljubljana last wednesday evning I have lived in
a type of human overdrive, running like hell and thinking on top
speed, up to now the war wasn't that close to me. But now I get
involved slowly into the refugees problems, both here in Zagreb and in
Ljubljana and via Mi Za Mir even in Amsterdam (that are basically
deserteurs from Croatia and Serbia) and found out that my ideas about
organisations like f.e. the Red Cross are not near the reality.
They, the Red Cross, do ofcourse fantastic things, but can't deploy
anything rapidly, in these situations days count, like I can imagen
the problems with the Kurdish refugees. The train station here in
Zagreb already is over full with people, I estimate that about 1500
are sleeping and staying there and most of them have not more than the
clothes they have on.
If I look at those little children sleeping on the cold floor I think
about my own two sons, far away in Sittard, sleeping in their nice
beds and having everything they want (except from their father which
is here), not knowing a thing about war, having no food, even having
no toys to play with. If you see the numbers in the paper you may feel
something, but if you see the stationhall in start to become reality.
At that moment you feel absolute helpless, I just have enough money
myself to survive here at a level which is a little higher than most
people, but still a lot less than at home, and with the few hunderd
marks I have I can't do anything, only starting a mass.
I have help a woman from Ljubljana to write a few fundraising
applications to get money to continue her work in the refugees camps,
knowing that I will take at least an other half year before some
results will come. She does social work in the camps, organised
volunteer working camps with some Western people for a week to have
activities for the children and youth in the camps. The only thing she
needs is a few thousands DM and some volunteers with some fantasy. But
everything takes such a time.
With a half eye I am looking at the television, my trip to Brosonskki
Brod is useless, the town is nearly gone and the citizens, for sofar
not killed or deported by chetniks to KZ in Serbia has left the city,
except for a group woman and children, which just have been liberated
by teritorial defence and given ti UNPROFOR soldiers for further
transport.
Saturday the leader from the Chetnik group the "White Eagels" was
arrested in Beograd, up to now that hasn't have any effect on his
fighting group, only that they have grown, more JNA soldiers went to
this private Chetnik group (even according Beograd television) and
their crimes became harder. For the rest the fights in Bosnia has
became a little bit less, but the bombing of Osijek is a lot worst
over the last two days. Chatrine from there arrived today to talk
about our project next weekend in Osijek, but even the more or less
safe road is now hit by granades. Life continues however in the
shelters, when the bombing stops for a while, people come out and
start immediatly to clean up the mass, to get the feeling of the war
far away.
Petrol prices in Croatia went up during the weekend with 200%, result
very long lines on friday for the tankstations and people who use up
there last resources to drive their cars, but the amounts of cars in
street is still the same, I wonder how high the prices have to get
before people stop driving. A full tank cost now about 1/4 monthly
income, so I believe that the system in the Netherlands to get people
out of their cars by highering up the petrol prices wouldn't work.
Nives from Mi ZA MIR, who works with the deseteurs in amsterdam, but
is Croat from born (lives however already more than half her life in
the Netherlands) has a hard time here. Her boys backhome went already
before the war in Bosnia started and couldn't tell her how high the
tention are in Zagreb against Serbs, but also against deserteurs.
Today she had a speech at the university of Zagreb, I haven't heard
how it went yet, but she was yesterday already trembling after talking
to her friends, so I can imagine how hard it is to do the same thing
at the university, knowing how much students went as volunteers to the
front. I have a great respect for this woman and feel sory for her
boys, they will have a hard time, whenever they come back. Running
away from the army and your country is if possible a bigger crime than
being against the war in principle, like we (they also call us Serbian
colloborators or even Chetniks in a drunken mood)
She brought with her this laptop, a 2 diskdrives 5 year old Sanyo,
without harddisks, but perfect to type. This is one of the 30 I help
to smuggle to the east before the revolutions, so it has some history
and has been through some hard times before. For the time being it is
a blessing to have a nice portable machine and a working modem again.
I use them already a lot to move files from one office to another, to
avoid to much running around. But I need some time to get everything
working and showing everybody how it works, since still I have no help
from more westerners.
The westerners who came has mostly left already, I have promised them
to send them as soon as possible some concrete projects they can start
fundraising for at home, hopefully I find the time in the coming days
to get something on paper, otherwise it has to wait untill I arrive on
Vis.
with love and peace
wam:-)
p.s. nearly every day there are reports that explosions have been
heard on Vis, maybe JNA is blowing up the ammunition piece by piece
rather than all at once like the island population is afraid of
pnmi...@igc.org
From: <pnmideast>
Subject: Zagreb Diary
/* Written 1:03 pm Apr 28, 1992 by gn:ark in cdp:yugo.antiwar */
/* ---------- "Zagreb Diary" ---------- */
Subject: Zagreb Diary
Zagreb Diary 23/24/25 April
Eric from germany has ask me to write something about peacework here,
since I wrote only about war. Maybe it is clear that peacework in
Zagreb is different from peacework in a land in peace. Even when the
bombs are falling some hunderd kilometers away from us the war is
nearby, it is part of live if you look well or spend some time to
recognize it. Another fact is that you can't just say that you are
against the war, since everybody is against the war, you see the state
posters everywhere (STOP THE WAR IN CROATIA), the war is just there
and basically the feeling is that the aggressors has to be stopped.
If you against violence from both sides you are indeed wrong in this
society, you are not only a bad Croat, you are even less than a Serb.
Organizing popconcerts against the war is simple you get some good
bands and you have within no-time a few ten thousands people together.
But it is just that small different to be against this war or to be
against war in general, so against all fightings. To be opposition in
a country in war.
ARK is therefor not so populair in Zagreb, on top of it everybody in
ARK is tired, they already are busy for 9 months without any break.
The creativity is a little bit used up, so it is sometimes pulling to
get some new activities started, on top of it the Slavic mentality,
and 40 years of communism, being not the best feeding ground for own
creativity and taking responsibility yourself. People are used to take
orders and talk more often than they do.
Nevertheless we have a lot of work. I will try to list the activities:
ARKZIN
a regular (sometimes monthly) magazine, which can be called one of the
only free medias in Zagreb, this cost a lot of time and rewriting, in
a war news change with the day. You have to run all over the city to
get the articles together in one computer and have to talk a lot
before we can use the DTP machines of some other newspapers. Articles
by the way come from all over former Yugoslavia.
CO project
The is a law for refusing active duty and do civil service, but hardly
nobody knows about it. The law by the way is also not finished yet, so
people who like to make use of it are still sended to the front until
the commission can make a decision. About 100 people are regristered
on this moment as objectors, 40% is now in active duty, they others
have already returned and 10 are killed on the front, nobody has
recieved an answer so far. We try to give information as much as
possible and have talks with lawyers about the law. In the future we
will have regular hours for CO.
Women Shelter
A project which started before the war, but became much more acute
when fustrated soldiers return from the front. This is a very active
group which has their shelter in a sqauted house and do their best to
keep it open.
Osijek project
Besides from nonviolent conflict resultion trainings with foreign
trainers, who come here to train local people for some days and
searching for groups who have experiences with mine cleaning,
involving the local people (not army orietated) this project is ment
as a Serbian-Croatian contact project. Together with Beograd we like
to make plans for what can be done to rebuild normal life in Osijek as
soon as possible. The last days the situation in Osijek became more
acute, not only because the bombing continues, but also since about
40.000 refugees from Bosnia arrived in the town.
VIS
Organizing meetings in Zagreb with authorities and students from Vis
who live here in Zagreb about the demilitarisation of the island. In a
few weeks we will start with a Peace Office on Vis (the highest armed
Island in the Adriatic). The idea is to create on Vis an alternative
economy, now the 3000 islanders are depended on the army (bread,
electra, water, etc. is coming from the JNA baracks). The Croatian
government is openly against this project, but with the help from
friends on the island and from Ljubljana, Austria and Germany we hope
to be able to recieve the first international peace activists already
this summer. In the future Vis must become a pilot project of
possibilities.
Travels abroad
Nearly always somebody of the group is somewhere in europe making
speeches about the situation in Yugoslavia and try to raise small
amounts of money somewhere.
Reacting on the News
Especially Zoran spend most of his time writing articles for local and
national newspapers to react on the actual situation, unfortunately
most of article are not being placed due to the internal political
control of the state.
Talking with visitors
More and more people pass by or call ARK to talk about something, this
we try to structure some more since it is often a break in what we are
doing. Especially foreign geust which just drop by for 2 or 3 days can
be a big time investment, they like to know verything in no-time and
are coming on the strangest unexpected moments.
Small symbolic actions
Mostly the ideas are good, but there is no time or money to really
bring them to an end.
Talks with representatives of official organisations
Not so useless, but a big time eater are talks with official poeple
from big international organisations for peace or/and human rights.
You need to prepare your documentation (what means running around the
city) and the priorities sharp. I hope to organize some rolegames
practising this talks a little better.
Helping were ever it is ask
Dispatching faxes from Sarajevo to the outside world when the libes
are bad again, helping refugees from Bosnia to escape via adresses of
friends (we try now to get through to Beograd to organise people from
Bosnia who want to go to family in Austria, but only can travel over
Beograd). Helping fundraising for all kind of groups. Trying to find
solutions for the most actual problems in the town via alternative
channels.
Offering place for other groups
The few rooms we have are also used by a lot of other starting groups,
one of the ones I like to most is the Ananda Marga, which does good
work with the workshops and meditations.
Trying to keep the center running
The most practical stuf as ansewering mail, getting things copied,
arhieving information, reading foreign (peace)magazine, following up
good advices from abroad (thanks by the way), organizing peace forums
and small demostrations, keeping the boys next door quiet,
cleaning up, finding a new place, etc. it all takes a hell of a time,
That's about it, ofcourse we love to do more if we had the humanpower
and the moeny we certainly could, there are ideas enough for workshop
and other activities, but time is not always on our side. I would love
to write about the weekly workshop in nonviolence conflict resolution
training we want to organise, the refugees children project with
foreign volunteers, a weekly e-mail meeting with the groups in
Beograd, Sarajevo, Novi Sad and Ljubljana on line, the monthly
peaceboot (small 10cm long boots with candle) action in the Sawa, so
the boats will drive through the frontline to Beograd as
peacemessages, a weekly peace cafe, organising open radio discussion
with youth radios in Beograd, having an international alternative fair
with all kind of new social movements of the west and the rest of
Eastern europe (producers of ecological food, renewable energy, etc.),
making an international peace bulletin together with the other groups,
helping Ljubljana with their Peace university, selling t-shirts,
having street discussions, getting artist together against the war and
make art manifestations, getting deserteurs out of the country
(prepare there coming back), opening another women shelter, getting
help for trauma patients from the front, opening a peace park, calling
upon groups around the world for sending tree and flower seeds, so we
can seed a new international peace forest in the city after the war is
over (seedsw of hope), organizing big peace conferences with
important peace scientist from all over the world and so on and so.
Sorry it are just ideas,maybe they come maybe they don't come, you
never know, war is living with the day.
Peacework is also getting the group together, organising joint
activities, trying to get the tentions down, helping eachother, loving
eachother. Trying to overcome the fear of loosing eachother if
somebody goes to the front or the tentions in the war are turning and
we realize that we are only 25 km away, talking about the frustrations
with eachother, making people joking, keeping the hope up. Being happy
with every piece of news from Sarajevo, knowing that our friends there
have it harder than we and that we must keep them happy as well.
Neither I, neither the others (which didn't ask for the war and do not
have a free choice to go like me) have ever trained to work in such
conditions or doing peace work at all (I am better in general
organizing and doing radical peace work in the west, but never ever
worked so close in the frontline). So we are reading like hell in our
spare time to learn what scientist all over the world have writen on
this topic. Unfortunately the time is short, the books in the wrong
diffucult languages and far to theoretic (not practical to do
something with it fast) and implementing needs time. Basically we have
to relay on our own ideas and feelings and hope for practical help and
advice from more experiences groups from outside. That we have to get
trained to train others.
I known f.e. that I have to get some time to get a good working
exchange between e-mail on the local adrianet to APC and vice versa,
but I need so guiet nights and patient for it to keep trying again and
again until I have a free line without noise on the line. That is very
hard to find here during the day, most of the time the screen is full
strange signs (especially during direct connections with London, vias
my own x.25 connection in the Netherlands, which I use in urgent cases
when the direct connection really fails this is mostly not the case or
at least less, by direct connections within former yugoslavia only the
local connections to Zagreb and the international connection to
Ljubljana works well, to Sarajevo is hard and Osijek only in the
night, Beograd ofcourse unreachable). Hopefully I will be able to find
the time and quiet place to do this work, it is neccesary.
My laptop has some problems, like he is not relayable, every now and
then the juice goes out without any reason, but it is on the other
hand terrific to be able to right whenever he and I want.
love and peace from a quiet Zagreb
wam:-0 -peace world!!
pnmi...@igc.org
From: <pnmideast>
Subject: Zagreb Diary
/* Written 10:19 am Apr 29, 1992 by gn:ark in cdp:yugo.antiwar */
/* ---------- "Zagreb Diary" ---------- */
Subject: Zagreb Diary
Zagreb Diary 27 April
Zagreb Diary 27 April
Love in tention area or warzone as I like to call it is something
different than just somewhere else, it is a mechanism from being
together and not being so depended on the other one that you break if
something happens to the other. People don't want really to stay
alone, since when the tentions are raising you never know what will
happen.
Last Saturday f.e. we here in Zagreb went to bed with the
knowledge that some Serbian pilots had quit the airforce but take
their airplane with them, they were planning to bomb Zagreb, was the
message. We slept however well that night, but it are those things
which makes people stick together. You otherwise never known where you
will end up in which shelter with whom.
On the other hand people want to be alone, be strong and survive
without help from outside, these two machanism have a strang effect on
love relations. One moment people say to you stay here, I need you and
the other moment they say I still love you but I want to be on my
own.I can understand it and have to respect it, but it is not always
that easy.
I don't know if this mechanism is unique for a tention area, it only
saw it here very clearly, not only by own experiences but also by just
looking around and seeing how this function.
Something else I have often problems with and takes a lot of my nerves
is waiting all the time, or that plans and appointments are changing
all the time, something which has absiolute nothing to do with the war
but everything with slavic mentality. It often drive me nuts to find
out that I have been waiting for nothing or that plans and promises
hasn't been kept. I have talked it over with some orginal
Yugosdlavians which live now abroad and they recognized that feeling.
It is fighting a war for yourself sometimes.
Lucky enough I knew about it, saw it before when I stayed in Beograd,
still it makes the working situation sometimes hard and give you the
feeling being absolute on your own. I am looking forwards to the
arrival of more volunteers, but it seems to be a hope like hoping that
peace will come soon.
On the other hand the discussion on the networks starts, I follow it,
but can't put so much energy into it as I would like. Nevertheless
something is happening and that gives me hope, hope that this world
starts to understand a bit what is going on and that we have to solve
this problem together.
Today I have seen Nives again and she went back to Amsterdam to her
boys, I gave her all the hope with her I could give, she needs it. As
far as we know there will come more deserteurs from Bosnia and from
Montenegro and they will also end up in the west and probably in
Amsterdam. She needs all the help people can offer her, since she is
also fighting her private war against institution and organisational
burocraty.
Vesna T. went today to Budapest to talk with the regional
environmental centre there, in the hope they can help with some
projects, but I wonder if it will work, at least fast, slowly
everything will get together, but the question is always how long it
will take.
I have been talking with some people in the west by telephone today,
asking them if there was anything practical written on Peace War in a
country which is not directly the aggressor or a big country which
fights a war far away on the other side of the ocean. And what were the
international peace activists in Irak doing just before the war ?
Shouldn't it be a good idea to redirect all volunteers which are
coming to Serbia at this moment or call upon peace activists to go
there now. If somebody know something about this qeustions, don't
hesitate and write us, what can we do ?
Does uberhaupt have somebody ideas of what we can do to stop a war
with peace campaigns. I already would be happy if the direct
connection with Beograd could be worked out better so that we can
discuse commen strategies.
Love and Peace from Zagreb
Wam:-> a little tired, but still0
pnmi...@igc.org
From: <pnmideast>
Subject: Zagreb Diary
/* Written 9:39 am Apr 29, 1992 by gn:ark in cdp:yugo.antiwar */
/* ---------- "Zagreb Diary" ---------- */
Subject: Zagreb Diary
Zagreb Diary 28 April
Laying in my bed I hear the traffic outside, this is a big town with
over 1.000.000 people and I come from a small town with only 40.000
people (that about as much as the amount of refugees in Zagreb and
they disappair in the city, you in fact only can see a few hunderd of
them if you know where to look, most tourist will think that Zagreb is
just overfloaded with a bunch of bagging gipsies (which is in fact
also true, since all gipsy from Bosnia are also on the run and lots of
them came to Zagreb)), so I am not used to the traffic going on all night,
the trams in the street at the strangest moments of the day. I loose than the
reality of time, since it can be late at night or early in the
morning. But there you get used too.
A sound I never get used to and wake me up when I sleep is gunshots
in the town, this night I heard automatic rifles a couple of times
from different direction. It could be drunken soldiers, who have a
party. It can be that some HOS soldiers are killing a political enemy,
a normal robbery or even somebody commiting suicide. Especially that
is going sky high. The two alarmlines which are functioning are by far
not equipted to deal with situation. But it make no sence to open an
other line since you need well trained people for running such an
alarmline and they are not in Zagreb. Getting them from abroad
wouldn't help since you need to speak this languages before you can do
something with it.
But it gets through to the press that the rate is getting really
alarming, a few suicides per day are normal, for cities like
Washington or New York a few suicides more or less wouldn't be
alarming (in Washington more people get killed normally per day then
here in a week), but here the rates go up in you look at the
statistics. For so far available, since suicide is not always
registrated. When I did research on in the Netherlands I even found
out that it is more or less a gentlemen agreement among paper not to
mention it in the papers.
Also you notice that people in the hospitals are loosing hope and in
fact kill them self that way, you can't get cured if you don't believe
in it. Maybe that also with peace, you only can get peace if you
believe in it. If you say you want peace with a riffle in your hand or
saying but the other side would allow us to life in peace it in fact
keeps itself alive.
Imagine the line there is a war and nobody goes, what would happen if
people go on the run in masses, if all the 4.500.000 from Croatia go
to Austria and Germany, together with the other millions of former
Yugoslavia, at that moment the west have to react.
It is a bit like the these imagine Bosnia had oil, like Kuweit,
a joke I came up with on the ARK office in the first week, start
the rumour there is oil and diamants under Sarajevo, in fact it was
also used in a colom in the Herald Tribune they other day (you can
find the text somewhere in this conference, thanks to Joel who does
a lot of work and is a big support).
But like in Kurdistan, Bosnia has no oil and people are not running in
big masses over the borders, so the problem and the fighting is nicely
kept inside the former borders and therefor the war will continue. It
is in nobodies real interest to stop it. That is the tragedy, the
foreign states are not really willing to find out how complecated this
war is. As long as it is inside there is no problem.
Like UNPROFOR, it was a general known fact in former Yugoslavia that
the last months in Bosnia and Herzegovina the tentions were raising
and that all groups were buying arms all over the place, but still the
important guys thought that Sarajevo was a safe place for their HQ.
Now they have to run for their lifes and work from the shelters and
drive around in armoured cars. If they just had taken the time to
lisen to the normal people, they would have known.
Another thing what I more and more dislike about UNPROFOR is that
their soldiers are not prepared to come here, we make jokes about them
when we see them in groups going over the city, basically looking for
girls and prostitutes (in the street of ARK is this profesion
bloseming), like there must be nest of them somewhere, since I never
ever see so much of them in the wild, do you think you can feed them,
and they are afraid alone, since you always see them in groups. But
the reality is sad, especially with this french guys here, lots of
them are drafted soldiers, with no experience what so ever how the
culture of Croatia and Balkan as a whole works and which are acting in
groups, like french tourist on holidays. Talking with people from the
Lebanon and others who have been in areas with UNO soldiers there
stories confinced me that this is a forgotten part in the UNO army, it
really depends from which country they are if they have any type of
training for the specialist job they are doing here.
Thinking about jokes, one of the first one I heard was an old one, but
still new for me, namely how many countries will Europe have by the
end of 1992 (7 is the answer, 1 united europe and 6 former
yugoslavian republics). I just heard a bigger explosion outside, but
very far away, probably at the front line, since the wind is coming
now from the south (nice spring weather, warm like the summer in my
country), the last nights I woke up from them a couple of times.
Friends here in Zagreb don't hear them anymore, they are used to the
sounds and people from Osijek or Mostar would even laugh when I tell
them, there the bombs are falling 150 meters away or even on you
shelter and you are still going on with your work.
Today I have been cutting sandbags open everywhere where I came,
people looked angry on me (but they have no reason since they are now
laying everywhere except from where they should be), to let the plants
come out, you deny it anymore all the bags have plants and start to
live a life on their own, you only have to cut them open once and a while.
I feel a little sorry about my action here, I managed to bring hope,
help where I can, send messages over the world, get attention back,
but I have brought any big fund or volunteer in yet and that was also
a part of my plan coming here. Okay I have could some materials
together, but the big stuff is still a dream. Today we had to turn
down an offer for a nice new office, it looked ideal, but and quiet
enough to deploy more activities without having that tention like on
the overcrowded ARK office and the toiletsize Green Action office. It
was 1200 marks per month and we said that 1000 marks was our limit
(for that amout you can rent something nicely in the west even, but
like in Praha the prices are incredible (people need to make money on
the sideline otherwise they can't survive).
Money is also becoming a serious problem for me, since I have no
further income than what I could lent from people when I left to
Zagreb and somewhere in the line I have to pay it back and to work
good and effective I need to rent my own living and working space,
otherwise I keep running around the city.
Hopefully some of the contact with westerners will work out, they were
happy to have a collegue from the west in town to act as mediator and
promised me to help in the future if I can come up with some nicely
described plan and projects. But lisen all the ideas and plans and
putting them on paper is two different things. But my idea is clear
now I want to build up a network from western groups and individuals
which like to help this country and feed them with information, than
it is up to them, if they can't take it from there I can't do much
more.
I read all the message today, god thanks we get more every day, Joel
is really working and his plan seems to be alright, but I advise that
if there is coming an other volunteer for communication, especially to
get the thing going between APC and Bitnet that person should not be
situated here in former Yugoslavia or should have his or her own
working place, otherwise forget it, you can't do it from here there is
too much other thing which work as noise on the line.
Last but not least we need badly a good printer since this thing on
ARK (a app. 7 year old apple printer with termical paper) drive me
nuts, you can't print more then a page at the time, then you have to
stop and get the paper in right for the other page and when you forget
it you have meters of useless paper, highly poluting by the way, the
same as faxpaper.
Love and Peace from Zagreb
Wam :-* don't take it too serious!!! it is just a war!!!
P.s. two more romours which maybe connected, from a guy from Austria I
have heard that some months ago some railroad workers in Wien got ill
after cleaning a belgium wagon coming empty from Croatia, there was
some kind of unknown chemical inside. The last days we hear more and
more rumours of the use of small scale biological or chemical weapons
in Bosnia and Herzegovina. But as said it are just rumours, I don't
know what to do with it, but I keep asking around.
P.s. P.s. The Jewish and Islamic international community seems to have
there act better together than the rest of the world. The jews flown
most of their people out in the early days of the war in Bosnia and
the Islam have organize a rapid aidline for food and important medical
product from there side. Were are to big campaigns on western medias,
for Rumania the Netherlands got millions together in no-time......
pnmi...@igc.org
From: <pnmideast>
Subject: Zagreb Diary
/* Written 9:34 pm May 1, 1992 by gn:ark in cdp:yugo.antiwar */
/* ---------- "Zagreb Diary" ---------- */
Subject: Zagreb Diary
Zagreb Diary 30 April
It is incredible how fast war is becoming part of your daily life,
things which I took as THE symbols of the war about a month ago I now
hardly see anymore. Thanks to this diary I keep alert that I shouldn't
forget were I am and that a lot of things I see are not normal and
part of this nightmare called civil war. It is not normal that on
shops and bars you find a sticker saying that it is forbidden to
enter with guns (except if you are a soldier), it is not normal that
cars drive around in the city with camoflage nets on it, it is not
normal that nearly every second car has another numberplate or even
none number plate at all, it is not normal to see soldiers everywhere
in the most fancy uniforms (you need a book to keep them apart and to
find out who is who), it is not normal that when you walk on the
sidewalk you have to look out not to fall over one of the sandbags
(which are now laying about everywhere, except from were they should
be), it is not normal that you see the Croatian flag
and symbols all over the place (even on our building), it is not
normal to be one of the only foreigner in European city, it is not
normal that a war takes place.....
On the other hand I wonder why I don't see many wounded soldiers, or
even wounded at all, I specially went to the area of the hospital, but
in the town you only see guy with the arms or legs in plaster, but not
real wounded as you expect in a wararea. I have got the feeling that
they are somehow kept in special army sanatoriums, since I can imagine
that if you see them in the streets all the time people would be much
more aware of the dirty parts of this war.
I try to picture this town 12 years back when I visit it the first
time, I am not so sure anymore if it look that worn out in those days,
if I have seen people sleeping in the streets (half hanging over a
market stand), so much cheap alcohol in the shopwindows, I can't
remember.
Another picture which is burned in my brain is a girl sitting behind a
type of take under a parasol selling lotery tickets (on the take she
has a ghettoblaster (which mostly don't work and a megaphone)), nobody
ever buys a ticket from her (at least I never saw), next to this girl
stands (and that is the strang element in the picture) a brand new
European red Opel Astra (the first price), on the back of this little
scenary there is the line (always about 150 meters, app. 300 persons)
waiting to get there Croatian citizenshippapers, next to that building
is HOS HQ with always a few black uniforms in front of it and the flag
of Great Croatia, around it the grey blue trams, the broken asfalt,
the grey buildings and people running as ants from some place to
other. This red ASTRA is breaking that whole picture of total 1984
feeling, it somehow don't fit in this grey surroundings and still it
is a part of this total absurdity. It is like the lotto and lotery
announcements between the news on the Croatian television, the colours
are too red or too yellow, the television girls smiles just a little
too much, the flowers are too colourfull and the whole thing is
broadcasted between to bulletin about the war in Bosnia.
If you than know that today the minimum wages went down to 8700 dinar
or next to 83 German Mark (about 45 dollar) and the price for gasoline
up to nearly 200 dinar a liter, you know that the lucky person who
wins that car can tank about once a month, or just once and than drive
all the way up to Germany (which just announce today that all Croatian
citizens get political asylium as lomg as the war last, not people
with Yugoslav pasport, only those with a Croatian pass (no serbs, no
citizens of Bosnia Herzegovina, no deserteurs who went out before the
Croatian pass excisted, just real Croats, I ask myself why)) to get
the hell out of this place.
The whole scenary has something like a total abstrac avantgarde film,
a modern remake of the depression of the thirties, total anarchy like
the Sec. Gen. from the UN wrote in his report about UNPROFOR when he
discripe the scene in Bosnia and Herzegovina. The two soldiers in
there red opera uniform in front of some important govermental
building are completing to film.
This whole war is a cheap B-movie, in which even Reagan coukd have
a part, it is not real, the main players are too much outside reality
to be true. Only the misery is ugly true, the stories you hear, over
and over again about new places I have to find on my map, the pictures
on the television, the tention in the air.
In which town in the world would it be possible that parties have
their own armed forces running around, openly threathening the
president (who is therefore always surrounded by soldiers and
bodygaurds (he transports himself in 7 cars and the highway is blocked
when he passes by)) or where ..........
An other joke is in this whole theatre are the article about Vis (our
Peace Island) in the papers, where high military and ministers declare
that those peace activists are acting against the interest of the
state Croatia. If they know how many people are really involved they
would keep there mounth close and didn't gave the whole action so much
credit. I am still here in Zagreb, since we can find the money to go
to Vis, put up a communication office there and start planning our
activities.
As said before this whole scenery is a cheap movie, but it sticks....
Since if it is true, and the amount of rumours are raising (even the
girl from Helsinki Watch talked about it) that in Bosnia chemical or
biological weapons are used this war because dirtier with the moment.
More out of reality, a story you can't make up since nobody would
believe you.
That's also Zagreb.....
Love and Peace, still from Zagreb
Wam ;-) sleep well, there is no reason to panic.
pnmi...@igc.org
From: <pnmideast>
Subject: Zagreb Diary
/* Written 9:36 pm May 1, 1992 by gn:ark in cdp:yugo.antiwar */
/* ---------- "Zagreb Diary" ---------- */
Subject: Zagreb Diary
Zagreb Diary 1 May
Today the whole country lays still, at least let hope for the people from
Zvornik, Mostar and Sarajevo, this one of the last remaining
socialistic holiday. I always could drive friends from Moscow mad by
saying that it was an American (Yankeeland) invention, this whole day
of labour.
It was a quiet night. The nice wheather from a few days ago went as
suddenly as it came, just if the sun looked at this countries for a
day and said to himself, no, not here, let them have what they
deserve, rain.
The discussion of yesterday and the day before about economical or
other sanctions against Serbia is another reason why we should have a
good and permanent contact with Beograd and the peace movement there.
I really think that we have to come some how out of this black empty
space on our eastern side. Somebody wrote somewhere in a message that
Serbs are more lazy than Americans, but that were we have to deal with
(Croats are not better than Serbs, by the way, and I wonder if it is
lazyness, it is there culture). Up to the moment I came here there was
standing an unused modem already since January and now more and more
people here in Ark start to use it and start to see that it can work.
It is a little expensive though, telephone price also went up like a
rocket and the minute price to London, our connection point to APC is
about 200 dinar, 2 Dem, but I choice to keep using APC directly rather
than all kind of untrustable fido and other networks, even when it is
cheaper to phone f.e. to Munchen to log in in one of the Comlink node,
which is also is part of APC I still think we should keep using
London, messages from us to Eric on a Comlink node are travelling for
at least 2 till 3 days before he has them and so an answer takes a
week. That's not why we use e-mail. The adventage of Email is that it
is fast, simple and well spread, from which fast is probably one of the
most usefull features (imagine the messages I get from Semra in
Sarajevo had to travel 3 till 4 days before they even reach London and
than 2-3 days before they are spread around Germany, than the news
would be still bloody, but also bloody old).
And I think it is not good to keep the discusions on e-mail within
this countries, like the first plan of some people, thaty Zagreb,
Ljubljana and Beograd could communicate via BBS systems within former
Yugoslavia, so called AdriaNet (which works, but is not relyable if
you like to get through to Beograd and most of the node are nearly
always occupied), thats good for internal communication, like we have
with Osijek, but in many ways this war is already hidden behind closed
doors and have to come out in the open.
People around the globe should get involved, give their ideas and
visions, their advices and help. We around the globe and especially in
Europe are all in one way ore another more or less coresponsible for
this war and they way it continued, our governments and export
companies used Yugoslavia for a long time for their money making in
the eastern country, introduced a realative high consumming and living
standard here, by given big amounts of money and than they dropped it.
And moreover why does German activists don't react on that stupid law
that only Croats with a Croatian pasport get a permission to stay in
Germany and not all other refugess from former Yugoslavia. If there
are actions of any kind please let us know.
Why and that is a qeustion we really would like to have an answer on,
so if soembody has an idea, why does Germany have so good relationship
with Croatia, from the beginning of the tentions Germany is helping
Croatia and not in same degree the other republics, what does Croatia
have what the others doesn't have. Are this left overs from the second
world war or are their other things which play a role here. Really if
somebody reads this and has the idea that he or she knows somebody
who may knows more please let us know.
In anyway we think that such decisions from the German state are not
helpful for the Peace proces in these countries. Why discriminating
refugees from Bosnia and Herzegovina, or even Croats who didn't want
to have a Croatian pasport, since they feel more Yugoslav than Croat.
And why now asylium for Serbs who leave there country, if all of the
Serbs who are disagree with the war would leave there country there
was not much war anymore. I think that like here most people are
against the war, but were to go to and what to do.
The need to discuse these things not only with the west (you out
there) but also with our friends in Beograd is high, how are they
reacting on such steps as from Germany, what do they think would be
the best move at this moment, and on the other hand I would like them
to ask why there appeal from last week (we know where to find you, you
can't even hide in the smallest mousehole, you destroyers of
cultures....) was so aggressive, at least in my (western) eyes.
It is clear that Chetniks, Serbian Extremists and since a week openly
also JNA are misbehaving themselves in a most crual way in Bosnia
Herzegovina, if only 10% of the stories and rumours are true the World
will be totally without words, especially that something like that
happened in civilized Europe (the red Kmers in Cambodia were ofcourse
worst, but still, if Bijelina is true and it looks like it the
intentions of the killers was nearly the same, grazy violence
against...). On the other hand there are maybe rapports on Utachis,
Croatian extrimist, Muslim fighters and maybe even the Croatian army
(which is also openly present on the battlefields in BiH. I wrote
before some days back, who have created this fighting and killing
machines, which structure can make humans doing this to eachother.
But it is hypocrete in my eyes to make every individual personnal
responsible for this, if an atmosphere is created in which such things
can happen openly, it is in my eyes not human to blame it on the guys
who were on that spot on that moment. The NAZI killers (soldiers) got
as major excuses "orders are orders" (except in modern Germany, were
even two Vopos are putted in jail for shooting on Wallbreakers just
before it came down, also for them "order is order" should be an
excuses, otherwise you measure with two different form of justices).
Punishing them all gives me the feeling that the tentions will stay
for ever and the threat that something will happen again will stay
forever. It is up to use peace activist around this country and around
the globe to come up with new, modern and civilized (human) solutions
what to do when this war cools down and even how to cool it down.
Within ARK (and as far as I know also within the group in Beograd)
there has been talks about positive punishments. In many ways war and
economy are linked (in a rich country, with a strong economy,
the possibility, the chance that war will war, or even violent uprise
will take place is much lower, and you see everywhere in Europe how
Nationalistic and racist feelings are growing as mushrooms on economical
depressions or threatnings of depression, the last elections in France
and Germany, where FN and the Republicans have won a lot shows it). We
don't yet what positive punishments are, in the past ecologist in the
Netherlands collected many to give to seal hunters, see then didn't
need to kill for their bread (that isn't the way).
It should be in my eyes the creation of an atmosphere in which hope is
in the air. Something in which people feel that they can take
initiatives to build up there own lives together. When Milosovic says
that when Serbs can't work, they at least can fight, he is appealing
the same feelings, but with negative energy. Everybody needs to have a
future to believe in, a goal to live for. The fighting machine at the
front have only one goal, keep this war going, since otherwise we are
unemployed (again) and get punished. As long as the wheels of this
machine gets rolling they can hide themselves in the groups.
And the world they react the way they should react in old fashion
thinking, they see that one of there children is not behaving like it
should and start to punish him or her. Rather than they try to find
out what the reason is behind all of this, what with other words the
virus is, which is the beginning of the conflict. They go thousands
years back to find the solutions in vague statelines which ones
excisted and take the nowardays reality not for real.
Love and Peace from a quiet Zagreb
Wam :-* - I don't know so much anymore, from what I thought I knew
when I came here.
p.s. the fights in San Francisco were here on television, it were
about the first pictures on the news from the outside world, which
were not direct or indirect connected with the war here. The feeling
which it gives is a bit like, see even in a civilized state as the USA
things like here are happening, so we are not so uncivilized as the
World thinks we are.
pnmi...@igc.org
From: <pnmideast>
Subject: Zagreb Diary
/* Written 10:38 pm May 2, 1992 by gn:ark in cdp:yugo.antiwar */
/* ---------- "Zagreb Diary" ---------- */
Subject: Zagreb Diary
Zagreb Diary
2 May 1992
The hell is started in Sarajevo, I am sitting here behind my stupid
computer and try to get the news around the world, I don't know what to
do else, praying and so I do behind my screen. Just a few minute ago we
recieved the message that the American sixth fleet, who is already for
over days in the Adriatic sea has sended two ships to the port of Rijeka,
friends in Rijeka confirmed that the rumour is true, but couldn't what
kind of ships it were. Let's hope that the amies are not going to finish
this war with there firepower.
Another very heavy messages, from which we are trying to find out if it
is true, was that German troops were moving in the direction of the
Austrian border, let's pray to whatever god that this is only a practices
from them since if those two super power are going to join this war the
hell really will starting.
Up to now none of our german friends could find out if it was real
through, but we start to think it is one of those rumours and let's hope
that is through since the war is already complecated enough.
Last night the front south of Zagreb in Sisak (app. 60 Km) was very
active, you couldn't hear it, but this morning you could see a lot of cars
coming back from the front and the news talked about the heaviest fights
since the cease fire in the beginning from the year.
When I came back yesterday at ARK and we were just sitting there, I was
busy to type in the last messages from Sarajevo (the last I recieved from
Semra) a huge blast was heard, our windows trembeled, but furthermore
nothing happened. My first reaction was very dry, "Shit that is not fair
bombing without airraid alarm (if you just konws the reality from
Osijek)" and went on with my work.
Aida was a bit more active and phoned the police and they told that it
was a blast just a couple of hunderd meters from our place, the Sarajevo
Bank in the park behind our block was blown up from the inside (how we
still don't know). A few hours later when we finished our work we passed
by the building, the whole area was putted of by soldiers and the
fireguards, ambulance and so on were still active (untill this morning by
the way). The blast must have been very heavy since parts of the window
were laying on the other side of the park, a hunderd meters into the park.
Later on that night I worked on a poster for the Peace Concert for Bosnia
we will have next week on wednesday, we don't know yet which and how
many bands will play, but we know for sure that the Islamic center will
send their chorus and that is terrific.
It is late at night now, we are still waiting for news, it is something
like you can't go out of the building to go home to sleep when you know
that friends are going through such a rough night, and rough is more than
an understandment in this case.
During the waiting I read through all old messages, especially the one
from Victor, I don't know what to think of it, what could NATO do, bomb
Beograd and kill a few thousand totally innocent Serbs (among which
there are good friends from me active to stop the war from that side)
and than....
I am just bloody affraid of the Macho talking, blow the Chetnik out of the
sky, send the leaders to jail, kill all utachis, and whatever. That are the
seeds on which Wars are growing. Start thinking about seeds for peace,
use your creativity and forget this strong talks. Otherwise please come
here and visit one of the army hospitals, if you still are talking that
strongly than I will give up. War are dirty and not human.
Love and Peace from Zagreb
Wam ;-0 please keep the peace in your heart and your head clear.
p.s. Ships weren't in the port and germans probably also not moving at
least something were we can be happy about.
BLAZIC Joseph R
>
>From: <pnmideast>
>Subject: Zagreb Diary
>
>/* Written 9:34 pm May 1, 1992 by gn:ark in cdp:yugo.antiwar */
>/* ---------- "Zagreb Diary" ---------- */
>Subject: Zagreb Diary
>
> Zagreb Diary 30 April
>It is incredible how fast war is becoming part of your daily life,
>things which I took as THE symbols of the war about a month ago I now
>hardly see anymore. Thanks to this diary I keep alert that I shouldn't
>forget were I am and that a lot of things I see are not normal and
>part of this nightmare called civil war. It is not normal that on
>shops and bars you find a sticker saying that it is forbidden to
>enter with guns (except if you are a soldier), it is not normal that
>cars drive around in the city with camoflage nets on it, it is not
>normal that nearly every second car has another numberplate or even
>none number plate at all, it is not normal to see soldiers everywhere
>in the most fancy uniforms (you need a book to keep them apart and to
>find out who is who), it is not normal that when you walk on the
>sidewalk you have to look out not to fall over one of the sandbags
And this in a city 30 km from a front. Imagine what life must be like
in Osijek or Zadar...
This corroborates my point that I have tried to make here on SCYu
in response to criticism of "non-democracy" in Croatia, that is that
things are hardly close to normal, so how can one realistically expect
to see democracy in the middle of a war like this?
...
>all the way up to Germany (which just announce today that all Croatian
>citizens get political asylium as lomg as the war last, not people
>with Yugoslav pasport, only those with a Croatian pass (no serbs, no
>citizens of Bosnia Herzegovina, no deserteurs who went out before the
>Croatian pass excisted, just real Croats, I ask myself why)) to get
>the hell out of this place.
There are many ethnic groups in Croatia aside from just Serbs and Croats
(Czechs, for example, who are in large numbers in Eastern Slavonia, i.e.
Daruvar...). They are all _citizens_ of Croatia, whether they be "real
Croats" or not. Thus this German rule is a national one, not an ethnic
one, as far as I can tell. The way the posting was written, it sounded
like only people with Croatian last names get asylum. The distinction
is important.
Best regards,
Joe Blazic
bla...@ecf.toronto.edu
pnmi...@igc.org
From: <pnmideast>
Subject: Zagreb Diary
/* Written 12:54 pm May 3, 1992 by gn:wamkat in cdp:yugo.antiwar */
/* ---------- "Zagreb Diary" ---------- */
Cc: gtn mkontakt wisepaxus
Subject: Zagreb Diary
Zagreb Diary 3 May Sunday
last night I stayed up to 7.00 in the morning, then I used
felt down from sleep, Alije (the president was still in jail,
he said, in protection, JNA said), when I went to bed Sarajevo
still existed but was burning at many places, I am afraid to
turn on the radio or go to ARK to read the last news. Somehow
I am afraid that the worst came through or even that they are
still fighting, how many hours of intense waiting have the
people and children from Sarajevo to go through, before this
hell is over. It is often such a primitive, beastial war (or
are wars always that way).
All we are saying is give peace a change
I dreamed that I had a nice white helicopter and fly high
above the fronts with enormous amplifiers, just broadcasting
that song 24 hours a day, bloody hard, harder than the mine
explosions, the grenades, the tanks and the riffles. It is one
of the songs I am listening to a lot.
Nives from Mi Za Mir waked me up at nearly 11.00 this morning
and brought the reality back, on the front they have to do
with the white UNPROFOR helicopters, since mine is only a
dream.
Nives was glad and made me glad, she has been in Sittard, my
hometown and the people from Rampenplan and EYFA worked their
buds off the get her her t-shirts and badges ready, she needs
them for Mi Za Mir to make money during the Liberation Day
Festival in the Netherlands (on the 5th of May). I is good to
know that I have friends everywhere on which I can fall back,
I just gave Nives the telephone number from Sittard and said
when you need help, phone them and they reacted as I had hope,
without me even introducing Nives to them.
I am in their frontline, I can fall back on them, EYFA will
pay me 300 dm for food over the coming months, now I only have
to find money to keep the telephone lines open and to help ARK
paying our new office. We are going to move today and tomorrow
to an old house in the center of the town, where we have more
space and more quietness to work. At last we get the things
rolling here.
By the way I start to find out that lot's of people everywhere
in the world are reading this diary, I hope I am not wasting
your time, since first of all I was writing this diary for
myself, to get my feelings and thoughts out and not to borrow
the friends I have here with my western ways of thinking and
not understanding.
Vesna Jankovic (where I have my home now and where I for the
first time in Zagreb have all my things together again) worked
to whole night on ARKzin and came back this morning around
10.00, now 3 hours later she is out again, overtired, but the
student group from student from Vis, who are studying in
Zagreb was waiting for us at Ark. Due to the articles in the
newspapers they are now really involved in the project and
that is a good thing. This group consist both real Tudman
supporters as well as supporters of the opposition. But all of
them felt offended by the admiral from Croatian army, who said
that the population from Vis is lazy and supporting JNA
indirect by not protesting against the JNA present at the
island (see the article I have put on line before and read in
between the lines). What should the people on the island done,
getting shot for Croatia or what.
With Aida I worked all evening, typing the news from Sarajevo
into the nets and working on the Osijek plans and just
discussing about what should happen. About Victors reaction
and many more we have received (bomb Beograd, nuke the serbs,
kill Milosovic, etc.). We discussed about new ways of
thinking, new ways of punishments. Talking about it is going
in circles, we don't know the answer. But who knows somebody
outthere knows a part of it and somebody else another part.
What would be a type of positive punishments, people out
there? When a cease-fire will be established, what should the
world do ? Should we take the old machineries out of the
cupboard and start to shot the major killers and put the rest
in jail for their lifes, or what ?
Due to Sarajevo and the most dramatic television pictures I
have ever seen, this was not CNN, this was real. Broadcasting
from a studio under heavy attack, discussing on the television
what to do now. I respect the President of BiH a lot, I
couldn't understand a word of what was been said, but you saw
and hear the tentions, but he kept cool, his voice strong but
calm. The guy is a real hero, if they exist, if somebody
should be getting a nobelprice for Peace it is this guy. He
had to operate under the most awfull conditions. Already a
couple of times he proclaimed that he was willing to give up
his country if that would be meaning the stopping of the
killing. But since the Chetnik and other Serbian fighting
group are not under command from anybody else then thereselves
that would have mean the total elimination from all Islam
people and there whole culture, since that is what happening
in Mostar, Bijelina, Foca, Visegrad and many small villages
from which nobody ever have heard. MIRNA BOSNA!!!
But what I wanted to say is that the news from the states and
the fights in LA and as far I have understood also in other
cities, was again from the television and newspapers here. It
was a lot like Joel wrote us, everybody reacted more or less
positive on that news, started to laugh and Joel story about
it was spread around among different groups here in Zagreb.
Yes, we know it, we are not the only not civilized country in
the world. We are looking forwards if the States is able to
cool this down in a peacefull way and moreover what the peace
movements will do. Are they on the streets to protest the
National Guards, are they standing inbetween the lines are
they active helping the wounded, or are they just as
frustrated as we are often. Not really knowing what to do when
the violence start. We are just a bunch of theoretica, we know
where it comes from, and how it should have been prevented,
but when it really happens we are so bloody too late with our
good ideas. Hope that nobody felt offended by this opinion, I
just felt it that way.
"What am I doing here at all, there is no ......."
"Communication is lost, can't even get you on the telephone. I
want to shout about... I am loosing you....." I listen to John
again or still, this song is not written for her and ment a
totally different, but it nearly fit word for word with the
feelings I have for Semra in Sarajevo, I am loosing her, I
miss her, as long as her messages were coming, how sad and
angry they made me sometimes, she was still alive and Sarajevo
was still alive. "Stop the bleeding now" I am shouting,
kicking the walls and smoke too much, let them stop, are they
totally fools, thousands of children are sitting in the
bunkers, just waiting, waiting for days, thousands of women
and emn, 500.000 human beings are afraid for their lives and
many more in the small villages around in BiH (and anywhere
else in the world were there is war). Millions of people who
have to live together again as normal people, as friends, how
will be able to get them communicating again.
Let's finish today with one many crual joke. Ten days ago a
group of tourist from China arrived in Sarajevo and ask on the
take of the hotel if there was some amusement in town they
could visit. The hotelkeeper ofcourse reacted that the
amusement was all around and real exiting, but that is was no
film but reality, so they had to look out not getting shot.
This group travel together with a Spanish friend, who know
that there was a war going on in Yugoslavia, but didn't know
where and when he ask in Beograd how to get to Zagreb, they
said that the only open road was over Sarajevo (what was true
untill two weeks ago). So they passed the lines and ended in
sarajevo just a day before the town was closed in. Some people
are really blind. The group was not able to leave the city
again, by the way, they have a lot to talk about when they are
back in China, Europe, civilized, don't let me laugh, you know
we were in Sarajevo and..... Visit Bosnia Herzegovina, visit
Croatia, visit Serbia, visit Macedonia, visit Montenegro as
long as it excist, MAKE a PEACE VISit !!!!
Love and Peace from Zagreb
Wam :-& kissing all the lovely people around the world.
Dragan Curcija
>Subject: Zagreb Diary
>...
>what to do now. I respect the President of BiH a lot, I
>couldn't understand a word of what was been said, but you saw
>and hear the tentions, but he kept cool, his voice strong but
>calm. The guy is a real hero, if they exist, if somebody
>should be getting a nobelprice for Peace it is this guy. He
>had to operate under the most awfull conditions. Already a
>...
>Love and Peace from Zagreb
>
>Wam :-& kissing all the lovely people around the world.
>
Yes, yes, yes. He IS hero, and maybe it would be a good idea to
nominate him for Nobel peace prize. That would certainly help stop
agression in Bosnia. From the very beginning he was active promoter of
pecefull resolution, including the proposal for new Yugoslavia he made
with Mr. Gligorov. Balancing in Bosnia for the past year, avoiding the
war, not being hostile at all, ... it really requires great person.
Without Mr. Izetbegovic, and Mr. Markovic, it would be much worse in the past
years. We owe them both one BIG Thank You.
Pozdrav,
Dragan
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Historia Magistra Vitae Est
___________________________________________________________________________
sven hauptfeld
separating the paragraphs etc.
The way it is written now makes it very difficult to read without printing it
out.
Sven Hauptfeld
Nikola V. Malenovic
guess it tells about how much they wants us to read it :-) :-)
(watch the smiley pleeeeaaaaaseeeee)
>Sven Hauptfeld
Nik
--
"We apologize for the inconvenience"
(God's Final Message to His Creation - So Long, And Thanks for All The Fish
by Douglas Adams)
--
M. Sablic
>Pozdrav,
>Dragan
Dragane,
I think it is very hard to accuse Mr. Izetbegovic of not being moderate but
some people are trying nevetheless...
I cannot agree with your opinion that Markovic did a great job. In my
eyes, it was his spineless politics at the top of YU at the time of
Kosovo repression that convinced me and a lot of other people that he
won't try or cannot stop Milosevic from taking power over whole YU and
therefore destroying the balance between republics. He also pampered
JNA instead of trying to reform it by reducing its budget and power.
The best example of this was his support for the YU-supersonic fighter
programme. He looked as if army and Milosevic could make him
irrelevant overnight and all this was when Tudjman was not yet on the
horizon.
As I have been reading your postings since August it is my impression
that you hold the idea of YU close to your heart however, I am
disappointed that, the way it looks to me, you would be satisfied with
the kind of YU which would only be that in the name only but would
contain very little of the `union of equals' that the original idea of
YU was. The possibility of such a YU was lost a long time ago and
certainly while Markovic was in power. Perhaps you don't see it that
way, but in my opinion, the kind of YU I would be satisfied with was
already gone in the `summit' stage when Izetbegovic made his
proposals. In my mind, SLO-CRO idea of the confederation of sovreign
states, was rebuilding of YU from bottom up, the way it should be done
ie. on the basis of mutual interests and not idealism which usual
means ending up with wrong solutions. I am sorry, if you think that
Tudjman was only trying to escape from YU by the back door using this
idea. Although I do not like nationalism I saw it as inevitable and
what Tudjman tried to do with it had some logic and was not intended
to start a war.
You probably do not agree with my opinions but before you write: `How
I cannot see that Tudjman did this.....etc.?' I will suggest that the
reason that we do not understand each others opinions has a lot to do
with the causes of the war ie. we are not the only ones who talk at
each other without getting through. Perhaps this is more of a cause
than Milosevic and Tudjman themselves.
Regards,
Mladen Sablic
P.S. In my opinion a better move for Izetbegovic and Gligorov would
have been to support CRO-SLO plan. Their plan lacked one key
ingredient. The insurance policy that the recognition of each
republic entails. If you think YU disappears when each republic is
recognised then I am disappointed that you are more interested in the
package than the contents.
P.P.S. I hope that you do not mind that on so many occasions I made
assumptions on what are your opinions, correct me if I am wrong.
--
Mladen Sablic, Pembroke College, Cambridge University, UK.
e_mail: ms...@phx.cam.ac.uk (JANET: ms...@uk.ac.cam.phx)
89...@eng.cam.ac.uk (JANET: 89...@uk.ac.cam.eng) (Rx only)
--
pnmi...@igc.org
From: <pnmideast>
Subject: Zagreb Diary
/* Written 12:52 am May 6, 1992 by gn:ark in cdp:yugo.antiwar */
/* ---------- "Zagreb Diary" ---------- */
Subject: Zagreb Diary
Zagreb Diary
4 and 5 May 1992
I could have write this two days separate, but for me the
below to each other as twins. The 4th of May is the Dutch day
to remember the deads from the second world war, at 8 o'clock
in the evening we all keep 2 minutes silence (that is most of
us) in the country, this year I was at that moment looking at
the fax on Ark, on that moment some messages from the what can
be called the Eastern front came in (massive attacks all along
the line). At the 5th of May (that is today) we are
celebrating the liberation from the Nazis (or the occupation
by the USA, as some people like to call it). In 3 days from
now it is 47 years ago that the last official world war ended
in Europe, since that moment there has been always a war going
on somewhere. Maybe some people could remember that day that
there are still wars here going on.
No, the war in Croatia hasn't stop, there is a cease-fire but
somehow that means anything. The whole area in East Slavonia
is under heavy attack since a few days, in Slavonski Brod the
oil tanks are burning, the attacks were done by airplanes.
From Djakovo the mother from Vesna called yesterday morning,
during the talk the air-raid alarm went off, but people are
sick of it, they are not going in the shelters anymore. Most
of the time the airplanes just fly over to create panic and
disorganize the life. But on the other hand you never know,
they can always drop something. The wounded soldiers from the
southern front Sisak are coming back almost every morning you
hear the ambulances.
Life in Zagreb however stood still during the weekend, most
people listen to the situation in Sarajevo, but now everything
is back to almost normal. The fights continue and Sarajevo
still exists. We accepted that the telephone lines to Croatia
from BiH are cut and that you only can reach that place from
outside Yugoslavia (probably by telephone lines which are
going over Beograd or something like that).
In ARK we had the first discussions about the future of the
center (center for Peace, Nonviolence and Human rights, as we
are going to call it), somehow nobody had the time so far to
talk about it, the war was there and nobody thought about the
future. I iniated a starting meeting and from that meeting it
became clear that we have to do a lot in the sense of group
dynamics and political opinion building. I was surprised how
different the meanings among some of the members were and
there thoughts about what to do and how. You see a very clear
generation gap between people from 30 and younger and the
older ones (people from my ages, 35 and older). Most of the
older ones are trained under strong communist education and
are not that flexible in their thinking, the younger group is
more western orientated, but lacks experience and trusts in
them selfs.
It is totally new for me to do groupdynamics in a group which
I hardly can understand I which I have to "analyze" by looking
at the emotions of people when they say something, and the
translations given to me by somebody. In a culture which is
been aimed of the production of working robots for a long
time, talking, discussing, that's allowed, but putting it in
practice, doing something with those filosophies that's hard.
An other hard point is that the German peace groups have the
thought that they have done enough to help those peace
movements here, Zagreb have receive something like 45.000 dm
since the beginning of the war for their activities and that's
it. We have about 15.000 Dm left from that amount, which could
take us to August, without problems, but than it is over and
we have to find new resources. It made some people a little
angry when they realized that the north sees them as rich
peace organizations. Something which is absolute not true,
every bloody dinar is turned about a thousand times before
somebody dares to spend it on something. And the budgets of
most of the similar peacegroups in the north are much, much
higher.
This island feeling is part of being here, feeling an
isolation from the world. Like the UN department for refugees
said on Friday, if I don't get enough money I will stop my
activities in former Yugoslavia, those remarks are echoing
through the streets. What does that mean, that Yugoslavia
should pay it themselfs.
It is not the people on the streets who ask for the war, who
are shooting the economy in pieces, who made a peace movement
necessary, it is the economical situation which made it happen
and for that the rest of the world is as guilty as the
governments from former Yugoslavia.
When I was walking back from ARK to my living and working
place at Vesna's house I thought "Shit, war is not (only) what
happens at the fronts, it is everywhere, it are the prices in
the shops, which get higher with the day, it is the whole
mentality, the brainwash that every thing which is not good
gets blamed by the war. If there was no war everything would
be better. And the war means the attacks of the Serbs, we have
to protect us against the enemy. So war becomes the ultimate
excuse for everything which is not functioning well and
indirectly the Serbs get the blame for it"
That is an spiral staircase downwards, people don't realize
anymore that f.i. in other former socialistic countries the
economy is also not so good, to put it mildly, in Poland the
inflation is skyhigh. Not the malfunction of the system gets
the blame, but a illness, which maybe is a result of the
malfunction, but not the only reason.
I like to shout, stop it, every bloody day people are getting
killed and for what, the world let us fight until the last
Muslim, Serb and Croat kills each other and than the problem
is solved. As said put a fence around this countries, throw
food and weapon over the fence and wait until the problem
solves itselfs.
Love and Peace from zagreb
Wam :-] a little sad, but full of fire to work again today
p.s. I still have to go to the police to get a permission to
stay in this country, officially I am still illegal here.
pnmi...@igc.org
From: <pnmideast>
Subject: Zagreb Diary
/* Written 12:43 pm May 7, 1992 by gn:wamkat in cdp:yugo.antiwar */
/* ---------- "Zagreb Diary" ---------- */
Subject: Zagreb Diary
Zagreb Diary
7 May 1992
Maybe nobody else is interested, but I really would like to
know how the concerts for "Peaceful Bosnia"(Mirna Bosna) went
in the other towns (Beograd, Ljubljana, Skopje, Novi Sad and
Amsterdam). For me it was at least an experiences to find out
that sometimes it is possible to organize something rather
quick in this country. The idea to organize this concert came
Tuesday, last week, from Ljubljana, it hardly have been
discussed, but the organization motor started, Friday we
designed the posters, in the main time somebody organized amps
and bands and Saturday evening the town was full of nice red
and green (you known this special hard colors, they seems to
give light in the dark) posters, which you could recognize
from a long distance. So that part worked. The press
conference (two journalists) on last Tuesday was less well
prepared, but became more or less a press conference about the
use of electronic mail (somehow GreenNet became a lifeline
with the outside World, never before the people at ARK
realized so clearly there relation with the rest of the
World's movement) and the importance of free media, than about
Bosnia.
Anyway the stage was ready, the amps came 5 minutes before the
start of the concert and the bands came even later, but the
whole concert was great. It started with the chorus of the
Islamic Center in Zagreb, nicely dressed up in Green outfits,
singing the new national hymn of BiH (a very peaceful song),
the we had a guy on a guitar, which song one of the best and
most intensive version of "all we are saying, is give peace a
change" I ever heard (hope that we can raise money to make a
cassette with him for the outside world, the emotions in his
voice are just real(title of the cassette "Flowers from a
WARZONE", cover a picture of a sandbag with a sunflower in
it)) and than a Croatian alternative rockband (also great, 2
guys on guitar and a very good drummer, although he had only a
snaretrom, 3 tonga's and a very little cymbal, it sounded if
the whole bloody drum kit was there, great, with a big smile
on his face), from the songs I didn't understood a word, but
the seemed to be hard and funny, as far as I could see from
the reaction and then again the Islamic Chorus, with some
beautiful Islamic songs.
It all looked a little small and improvised, maybe if you
think about the big concert which was given in Beograd some
weeks ago, but the place is great, about 4-500 people stood
still and watched and song along. You could also see that a
few elder people specially came for the concert (they stood up
from their chairs, when the national hymn from Bosnia was sang
and were rather emotional, also Chatrine from Osijek was
emotional and started to cry half way "Give peace a chance"
(she would love to organize something like this in Osijek, but
it can't be done in the shelters)).
We (ARK) will try to get this circle of concerts going again,
since it is good for our social outreach (this morning already
two guys phoned what to do with the mobilization card, they
saw the concert yesterday). Just talk with Marko from
Ljubljana, at last there is a line now from GreenNet to
Adrianet and it seems to work, they started yesterday (but the
phonelines in Slovenia are probebly worst then here since they
only can work on 300bps, rather slow, with a lot of noise on
the line). Their concert though yesterday evening was a bigger
succes, if possible, than here in Zagreb, lots of famous
writer (refugees) from Bosnia.
One thing I could not understand is why the app. 45.000
refugees from Bosnia in Zagreb didn't show up (only a few
came), but we were lucky since there was no place, in two
weeks from now there will be a bigger concert in the main park
Maksimir in a weekend, maybe that will be a lot more people,
but I was already satisfied with what we established now.
This morning I went with Vladimir to the police station to get
my things officially fixed, we thought that wouldn't take much
time, since there are not that many foreigners in the town.
Forget it, after 4 hour we only had 1 form and 1 stamp yet and
had to give up for the day. We forgot that BiH is also a
foreign country nowerdays, so we ended up in a line of app.
2500 people waiting, with moving with a speed of app. 3 people
per half hour. Next morning we go at 7 in the hope to stand in
line first. Knowing what will come to me I think we have 5
forms and 17 stamps to go and app. 3000 croatian dinars on
tax, long live burocraty. Or blame it on the war (in 1980 I
spend 3 days, app. 4600 old Yugoslav dinars, 165 stamps and
app. 23 forms to get 5 kilo of diplomatic mail out of the
costumers, so I can be worst).
The police controls get more intensive with the days, the are
controlling peoples and cars all over the city, the reason is
clear now, they are looking for the terrorists who have
starting the explosives. I am somehow looking different than
the mainstream of the people, so a very clear target for
controls, this morning on my way to the policestation twice,
keep on the good mood. It is ridiculous, the same stupidity as
the German border controls (I life almost at the German
borderline in Sittard) who always control me for drug
smuggling, if I ever would be a terrorists or a smuggler I am
not that crazy to walk around as I do now, and I also didn't
use my own passport (it is just a piece of paper, you can buy
them on the black market in Amsterdam for a few thousand
guilders, so what is really and what isn't. Why are people so
stupid that they believe in stamps, official looking papers
and identity if ever fool knows that you can falsify them
(give me a day and a good computer with colorprinter and I
produce the most official looking document you ever have
seen)).
One of the things I did before was smuggling stamps into
Eastern Europe, almost everything worked as long as there was
a circle around it, even a "Port Paye in Sittard" stamp gave
me a free stay in Poland once. I ran out of zlothies and
bottles of wodka and had to get myself a document to avoid the
36Dm obligatory exchange per day, I had to save DMs for my
trip home (I always had to travel around the DDR (via Sweden
or the CSFR (CSSR in those days)), since I had some courtcases
against me running there and was afraid that they would keep
me there if I passed).
Why, why, why are people not able to think for themselfs ???
One last thing today, Vesna T. seems to have a radar build in
to herself, a radar for uniforms, you can see on her face when
there is a uniform around within a radius of 50 meters, and I
don't even have to look at her face, since her radiation is so
strong that you just feel it. It must be awful for her, since
the whole bloody town is full of uniforms.
Okay some more, since a few days I know that Croatian army has
also Mig fighterplanes. A few days ago one Mig came very low
over the city and it made me somehow nervous, knowing that
the air-raid alarms mostly started after the bombing was done,
or after the planes were spotted above the city. But it was a
plane from the Croatian airforce, they have about 10 of them,
the stupid pilot probebly want to impress his lover, or so.
Vesna J. told me that last year she was walking in the town
and heard some explosions, she walk home (app. 15 minutes) and
at the moment she reached her house the air-raid alarm
started, she turned on her TV and found out that the
television tower was blasted away. Those things make me a
little nervous when I am sitting at Green Action, across the
road there is the gas depot from Zagreb and the building has
no shelters, when airplane come over. So I make jokes about
them.
Today Peace Media Service came from the Netherlands, nearly
the half of it were extracts of this diary, I must thank Jim
Forest for his cleaning up of my English and the garbage a
write in the sidelines. For the rest it was great to read,
didn't know that I was so crazy and above all I felt a little
sorry for this guy in Zagreb, it looked if he (I) would have a
nervous breakdown any moment, and that is absolutely not true.
(by the way Jim, can you send it to NN in Amsterdam and to the
HP/De Tijd (attn. Math Dings), they probebly can use it as
well).
Love and Peace from Zagreb
Wam :-O Give Peace a Chance
P.s. Something more about JNA. According to official figures,
which I can proof, but maybe somebody has better information,
99% of the soldiers is now from Serbian Nationality, but not
from Serbia only, the JNA soldiers in f.e. in Bosnia are for
more than the half from Serbian nationality, but from Bosnia.
Furthermore Serbs were (are) living in Montenegro, Croatia and
even in Macedonia, so Serbian soldiers in JNA come from all
over the place. JNA is a army without a country, that is more
than clear, they are not the Serbian Army and Yugoslavia don't
exists anymore (even if JNA was the army of new Yugoslavia
(Serbia-Montenegro) it would still contain a lot off soldiers
from abroad (from BiH and Croatia). By the way what is the
status of Macedonia at the moment, it was part of old
Yugoslavia, didn't became independent and is not part of new
Yugoslavia, so it is nothing, just Macedonia, or any other
name, Greece don't accept the name Macedonia.
pnmi...@igc.org
From: <pnmideast>
Subject: Zagreb Diary
/* Written 3:48 pm May 6, 1992 by gn:wamkat in cdp:yugo.antiwar */
/* ---------- "Zagreb Diary" ---------- */
Subject: Zagreb Diary
Zagreb Diary
6 May 1992
Yesterday evening I had a dinner at some artists here in
Zagreb, one of them came from Mostar, so you can imagine where
his mind was. Anyway we were talking about the role which
artists can play now and after the war to get (financial)
support for the ecological rebuilding of these countries. It
must be possible to organise within a month after the final
cease-fire a network from music and art festival around the
world to raise money, from which projects can be finances who
are aiming at ecological (re)construction of these countries
and intercultural cooperation.
We also were talking about a type of festival of fools to be
organized next summer (so next year) on the island of Vis ,
when it still exist. I feel guilty that I am not on the Island
at the moment to support the people there when they are
waiting for the final deadline of the 15th this month.
Croatian army has given that deadline to JNA on Vis, if they
are not off the island by that time they will take it with
force.
Ofcourse we came to talk about Sarajevo, now there is a cease-
fire things are looking a little hopeful, but who knows. One
of the guys told that Sarajevo had the best underground
culture from all the cities in former Yugoslavia (I couldn't
resist to say that the last month this underground culture has
got a total other meaning, everybody lives in shelters
(underground)). Nevertheless we went on talking about the
underground culture there and the type of gravity, which is
totally different from the graffiti here in Zagreb, which is
football hooligan alike, one example. One night somebody wrote
on the main post-office "This is Great Serbia", somebody wrote
the next night "Fool, can't you see this is the post-office".
Shit, the radionews just mentioned that the fights has started
again, detonations and machinegunfire were heard all over the
city, so another cease-fire is broken. How many will follow.
It is often balancing between black thinking and sparks of
hope, that they will come to their senses.
In Zagreb the mobilization goes on, more and more people I
know are called up for the military duty and most of them go.
The emotional pressure on them is high on their university and
work. This mobilization as well as the regular bombattacks has
also increased the controls by the police. Yesterday I was
controlled 3 times, maybe it is my bag "Vis-Peace Island (In
English and Croatian)". It has been long ago that I was in a
country with such heavy police controls, can't say that I
really like. Until now they were satisfied with my passport so
it is no real problem, but it is always such a hassle I you
are just walking and thinking and some agents are crying at
you from the other side of the street in some strange
languages, which I can't understand, and they get so angry
when you don't react immediately, after seeing my pass they
mostly are satisfied and rather not so un-polite anymore.
After I received a message that it maybe was a good idea to
put the president from BiH up as nomination for the Nobel
Peace prize we had a real discussion about it on ARK.
According to the most he wasn't that clever in the last
months. His country changed into a giant military base and
every groups was arming themselfs and he didn't do anything
else, beside saying Peace brothers, and hoping that no war
would come over his republic. But still I think it would be a
good idea. Tomorrow evening we are going to talk about it, and
about our position towards the whole BiH war as a whole in the
whole group, so also those people who are involved in ARK but
only here once and a while. It is good to talk with each other
to get our general opinion clear. And avoid mistakes that we
are getting too much one-sided. There fore the concert for
Bosnia tonight is a good thing, it takes place besides Zagreb,
in Beograd, Skopje, Novi Sad, Ljubljana and Amsterdam. Thanks
to Ljubljana who made the contacts the peace movements in
former Yugoslavia are doing something together for the first
time this year. It is needed that a more regular contact is
established.
Joel from the states wrote us a messages yesterday that he
will come in the summer, and that is beautifull, furtheron is
seems that a lot of my friends will pass by in the coming
months, I hope they don't forget to bring diskettes, coffee,
dropjes (dutch candies) and some other things with them (like
money, the prices are still raising and since hardly none of
the agriculture is functioning anymore, only in the western
parts, but the big food producing areas are in the warzones,
the vegatables are getting less and less). The longer this
take the bigger the problem will grow.
Love and peace from Zagreb
Wam ;-) I have to go back to work!
Dragan Curcija
>...
>I cannot agree with your opinion that Markovic did a great job. In my
>eyes, it was his spineless politics at the top of YU at the time of
>Kosovo repression that convinced me and a lot of other people that he
I don't want to go into long and heated discussion over Mr. Markovic,
but let me point out that he was Federal Prime Minister and his job was
certainly not to "stop Milosevic", but to create viable economic policy
for Yugoslavia. For that matter he was very succesfull, and for his
neutrality and persistence on law and reforms he was prized all over the
world (including president Bush at that time).
>...
>As I have been reading your postings since August it is my impression
>that you hold the idea of YU close to your heart however, I am
>disappointed that, the way it looks to me, you would be satisfied with
>the kind of YU which would only be that in the name only but would
>contain very little of the `union of equals' that the original idea of
>YU was...
Maybe there is some other Dragan Curcija at umass. ;-)
In which particular posting I was favoring YU "with very little
of the union of equals". I thought that all my effort here was
to give good arguments for the preservation of the Yugoslavia,
as it was, and that I indicated countless number of times that
I consider Mr. Milosevic and his idea of Yugoslavia nothing more
than a good mask for a great Serbia.
>...
>proposals. In my mind, SLO-CRO idea of the confederation of sovreign
>states, was rebuilding of YU from bottom up, the way it should be done
>ie. on the basis of mutual interests and not idealism which usual
>means ending up with wrong solutions.
In my oppinion (or should I use abbreviation IMO) SLO-CRO idea
of the loose confederation was as lousy as SER ( three letter abbreviation
for Serbia would be SER, right? - what was that in latin? something
with nomen and omen :-)) idea of rump YU. It was just another way
to break up Yugoslavia, maybe bloodless, but still seccesionist.
>I am sorry, if you think that
>Tudjman was only trying to escape from YU by the back door using this
>idea. Although I do not like nationalism I saw it as inevitable and
>what Tudjman tried to do with it had some logic and was not intended
>to start a war.
Read above. Tudjman said what he said in writing, and he is still
alive! ;-) It is so obvious that he only wanted completely independent
Croatia, and that he wanted to marginalize Serbs in that state, that
I almost don't see a point in proving it. He explicitly said in his
election campaign that he want complete independence for Croatia, and
that one of the first tasks for him when he comes to power is to
reduce the influence of Serbs. Did he not? Everything he did after
he came to power was to reach that goal, from the day one.
I will agree with you with the one, he probably would not start
war if Serbia agreed to independent Croatia. But then, there is a big but!
Serbs certainly have the right (not Serbs in Croatia only, but Serbs in General)
to question internal borders, which are indeed administrative (I still
did not read a good argument against the argument that the internal
borders are admnistrative, and that they are arbitrarily drawn). Now, when
you start to question borders, you get bloodshed (I repeated this one
at least 10 times here, and since, we have more and more of hectoliters of
blood - right Mr. Antonic?). So, finally you reach the end where there is
indeed guilt of Mr. Tudjman and his nationalist thugs for the war
going on. How much of guilt? well, does it matter?
>You probably do not agree with my opinions but before you write: `How
>I cannot see that Tudjman did this.....etc.?' I will suggest that the
>reason that we do not understand each others opinions has a lot to do
>with the causes of the war ie. we are not the only ones who talk at
>each other without getting through. Perhaps this is more of a cause
>than Milosevic and Tudjman themselves.
Why am I not getting through to you? Why do you feel obliged
to follow sacred politics of Mr. Tudjman? Whose thousand year old dream
he is advocating? certainly not mine, and certainly not of any of 100+
of my relatives with whome I communicated over the past 30 years. So,
whose then? Mr. Antonic's maybe (and the list of the true Croats from his
internal distribution list) ;-). Think about it, man.
>
>Regards,
>
>Mladen Sablic
>...
>P.P.S. I hope that you do not mind that on so many occasions I made
>assumptions on what are your opinions, correct me if I am wrong.
Actually, yes, I do mind. I think that I corrected you in my
posting.
Regards,
kai -Visitor
cur...@medr0.ecs.umass.edu (Dragan Curcija) writes:
: In article <1992May5.1...@eng.cam.ac.uk> 89...@eng.cam.ac.uk (M. Sablic) writes:
: >...
: > [ private discussion in public between Mrs Curcija nad Sablic ]
:
No reason to interfere.
:
: Why am I not getting through to you? Why do you feel obliged
: to follow sacred politics of Mr. Tudjman? Whose thousand year old dream
: he is advocating? certainly not mine, and certainly not of any of 100+
: of my relatives with whome I communicated over the past 30 years. So,
: whose then? Mr. Antonic's maybe (and the list of the true Croats from his
: internal distribution list) ;-). Think about it, man.
: >
With 1 mil displaced persons in Croatia (including refugees from B&H) I
believe that students from Croatia have moral duty to try to help those
people. Moreover, it is high time to stop the bloodshed in former YU.
With the world reluctant to take a decisive action to stop the
moraly bankrupt federal army, that have broken almost all international
war conventions and have shown incredible savagery toward inoccent civilians
and world or former YU cultural heritage and property, I FIND IT INAPPROPRIATE
OF YOU TO LAUNCH SUCH A CHEAP SHOT AT THOSE PEOPLE. Being one of
those "true Croats with a thousand year dream" I can assure you that you are
misplacing many scy silent people with just a few scy contributors who might
be pro Tudjman oriented. There are many people who are silent with regard to
this forum because scy is not a healty place to have a constructive
discussion. Some people are trying, but in vain. Maybe some other time in
the future, when there is peace in the land of South Slavs.
: >Regards,
: >
: >Mladen Sablic
: >...
: >P.P.S. I hope that you do not mind that on so many occasions I made
: >assumptions on what are your opinions, correct me if I am wrong.
:
: Actually, yes, I do mind. I think that I corrected you in my
: posting.
:
: Regards,
: Dragan
:
:
: ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
: Historia Magistra Vitae Est
: ___________________________________________________________________________
Regards,
Hrabri
pnmi...@igc.org
From: <pnmideast>
Subject: Zagreb Diary
/* Written 1:17 am May 10, 1992 by gn:wamkat in cdp:yugo.antiwar */
/* ---------- "Zagreb Diary" ---------- */
Subject: Zagreb Diary
Zagreb Diary
Night 9 and 10 May 1992
I get sick of it !!!!
---------------------
Sorry when this message is a little hard and not so neutral,
but I just watched Slavonski Brod and I am a little confused
about the messages I have been reading on the net today.
I can't imagen that anybody in this world is interested in who
is right and who is wrong in this bloody war, as long as it
continues. I have nothing to do here, I am NOT a CROAT, I am
NOT a SERB and I am NOT a MUSLIM. in fact I even don't speak
any of the languages here, neither am I busy to learn them (or
it is just practical since I am here to learn some words), I
loved some Yugoslavia, when ever I visit it, for any type of
purpose (as official geust of some official youth or other
organisation, as tourist, as western activists, or what ever),
as I like so many countries in my continent.
I get sick from the fight here on the net between Serbs,
Croats or Moslim or whatever former Yugoslav out there, trying
to proof the world that their standpoint is the only real one.
Dig into the first days of the history of the world if you
want to proof your point. People (man, woman and children) are
killed here becuase of those nonsense, every bloody day that
this war last.
Each life what is taken here can be given again, by now wrong
or right in world history. All this discussions, all this so-
called peace agreements (like the one which was so-called
agreed in Graz about splitting BiH in Croat and Serbian
regions, leaving the Muslims in a small corner are just
BULLSHIT. Those guys can agree what ever they want but they
have the thing not under control anymore. So has nobody, no
Milosovic, no Tudjman, no Izetbegovic, no UNPROFOR, no Paraga,
no Chetnik or whatever.
Let's come to your senses outthere on the net, it makes
absolute no different which nationality a dead body has and it
make absolute no different who killed him, in many cases it
easely could be the other way round.
Blame it on JNA, blame it on International brigades in
Croatian army, blame it on Chetniks, blame it on Utachis,
blame it on teritorial defenece, or whatever. Are you going to
tell it to the children who lost there father, to mother who
lost her son, to uncle who lost his family, the ......
Try to tell them why this madness continues day after day,
hour after hour, minute after minute. Is nobody outthere what
a gigantic media war and brianwhasing process is going on her
on all sides.
I feel absolute no sympathy for any of the fighting force out
here. But I can imagine people defending there loved ones and
there lifes. But none of you are sitting in the shelter
waiting for the hits, none of you are seeing the refugees,
none of you see the people killed in front of their eyes,
..... books, words, television can't express that feeling. I
have felt not more than 1% of what most of the people here and
abroad went through seeing their country and there people
falling apart, getting killed.
The time for intelectual fights about who is right and who is
wrong is over. If somebody know that Craots killed Serbs and
Muslim killed Croats and that Macedonias killed Albanias and
god forget it. Just please put it on this net, it doesn't
matter anymore. You are right or wrong what does it matter.
I can scream at you, shout, cry or whatever, it all makes no
sence, nothing in this war really makes sences. I feel just
sadness, sadness about all those people who call themselves
civilized, members of science use their brains in so
destructive ways. Wars are not only the weapons here at the
battle fields, wars are the words you use, the impression you
give, it is the bloody way you think.
There is no enemy when you are not one creating some yourself,
that people are killed with arms here is because there were
arms. And therewere arms since somebody thought he had an
enemy.
Ask it the population from Vukovar (which was as much killed
by the attacking forces at it was let down by their own
Croatian government), ask it in Sarajevo, ask it in Osijek,
ask it in Mostar, ask in in Bijelina, ask it in even Banja
Luka (not yet hurt by the war, but the population is scared
shitless), ask it where ever you like to go.
Not only the weapons should be stopped, but also this rumors,
this fights among eachother with words. None of you can say
their nationality is clean in this war, even I as Dutch guy
can blame it on my country, we were too late, too stupid, too
whatever....
Start using your brains in finding a solution for a problem of
a machine which went totally out of control and try to think
in a way which make it possible that people can live together
in peace in these countries.
Just stop the killing, also the killing with words, I just get
sick of it.
Still Love and Peace from Zagreb
Wam
p.s. writing in 25 minute, without spellingchecker or anything
else I was just angry, forgive me.
pnmi...@igc.org
From: <pnmideast>
Subject: Zagreb Diary
/* Written 1:19 am May 10, 1992 by gn:wamkat in cdp:yugo.antiwar */
/* ---------- "Zagreb Diary" ---------- */
Subject: Zagreb Diary
/* Written 1:09 am May 10, 1992 by wamkat in gn:yugo.antiwar */
/* ---------- "Zaf ger reb Diary" ---------- */
Subject: Zaf ger reb Diary
Zagreb Diary 9 May
Friday evening 8.00 until 10.00 pm, prime-time on most of the
television stations around the world, what do you see on
Croatian Television. No no War, but een series of programmes
about Croatian economy and how foreign investors come to
invest in Croatia, PurePak, Lego, Bitburger, etc. And
furthermore een propaganda film from 1987 about the Eco (the
European currency). It is going well with Croatia !!!
Followed by a programme about the destruction off Dubrovnik,
bad, bad enemy. Besides this there is another nice thing which
stroke my ears, the word "Hvratska" (Croatian) is said about 1
time each minute.
Than ofcourse the news, with a lot of war, one positive thing,
somehow the area Medugorie (I come from the Catholic part of
the Netherlands and such places are known there) survived as
by miracle most of the shelling, the church and other holy
places are still relative unharmed. Even the fragmentation
bombs which were used somehow couldn't really destroy the
place. One of the first qeustion I took from the net was a
qeustion about this place, so here is the answer. Medugorie
lays precisely on the northern side of a valley and mountain
which form the border between the mainly Croatian and mainly
Serbian parts of Herzegovina, in the Croatian part ofcourse
(since the Serbian part is basically not Roman Catholic).
In Russia all information about the war in Bosnia are blocked,
no media is writing about it, accoording to Croatian news, I
don't know if that is true, maybe somebody from Glasnet can
answer me on that one. Most people in Zagreb react that this
is the old-fashion link between Serbia and Moscow.
Other remarkable things, the bay at Bakar, south of Rijeka, is
a beautiful adriasea coast bay, very natural, the only problem
is that there is a cokes factory, against which most of the
population already protested 2 years ago. Today the news came
that Germany invested money to rebuild the factory, to make
cokes from Russian coal for the German market. That's the type
of help this country is probably getting alot of in the
future. This was not on television, but came in by telephone
from Rijeka.
Today the Earth Bishop of Croatia (or how he may call in
english) has asked officially to ban free arbortion out of the
law. As we thought what would happen. This remind me that
Nives from Mi Za Mir asked me to look for pieces in the
newspaper about "ethnical cleaning" and the suspression of
Dalmatian. Both things are used a lot in confersations, but
there is no word about it in any of the papers I have asked to
control on it, sorry, Nives, it is again one of those things
which is happening, but you can't proof it. We have ask the
Dalmatian Action to write a piece about their problem, as soon
as it is translated we will put it on the net.
After those things the German and English news (5 minutes
each), in which I only noticed that the Croatian government
has again changed, but that is nearly happening daily I have
got the feeling. And that they adopted a new law in the
parliament so that the can change the law on human rights and
minorities in Croatia, I don't know yet what to think of this
last move, I wonder if that is hopeful.
The at 12.00 pm channel 1 stopped and I turn to channel 2, and
see the special for the Croatian Army, for and from the
soldiers, love letter from home and reqeust for video and
greetings for the people back home. I thought what would
happen if one of those tough guys would give the greetings for
his boy-friend lover backhome, would they broadcast it. Next
week I will write a letter and ask for a queen video for ,my
boyfriend at the front as homosexual, I am curious to see if
they tae it.
One other thing which nearly couldn't believe was a nice spot
about a brigade which was just rebuilding their barracks and
show the television around, this is damaged by JNA when they
live, and this are the nice chairs and flowers we have got
form firm so and so, and believe or not at that moment all the
names of firms who had sponsored so far runned through the
picture. After that list a list follows from things they still
need and for which they are looking for sponsors. Can you
imagine, coca cola can buy here their own brigade and put a
commercial on their uniforms. Which brigade is this ? "That
the pepsi brigade, they are better as the opel bridgade, but a
lot less as the phillips troops." What for country is this ?
Love and Peace from Zagreb
Wam
p.s. and than when you are desperate to get your things on the
net and for the first time in a few weeks the lines are rather
clean and without too much noise, on your screen the following
thing appairs, after which the connection is broken:
"login: (? for help): ark
Password: (? for help): xxxxxx
3dVthsc9WQCWE 3dVthsc9WQCWEUnable to change directory to
"/apc/usr/gn/gnmisc/ark""
And as you can see it is Saturday, so nobody is at GreenNet
and with a little bit of bad luck this takes up to monday to
be fixed.
Hrvoje J Hrgovcic
>alive! ;-) It is so obvious that he only wanted completely independent
>Croatia, and that he wanted to marginalize Serbs in that state, that
>I almost don't see a point in proving it. He explicitly said in his
>election campaign that he want complete independence for Croatia, and
>that one of the first tasks for him when he comes to power is to
>reduce the influence of Serbs.
Before Tudjman came to power, Serbs made up 33% of Croatia's ruling
Communist government, 50% of the police, 75% of the security police, and
similar proportions of many choice positions (Serbs comprise
about 12% of Croatia's population). He promised a government
ethnic distribution that reflected the Serbs' percentage of the
population, no more and no less. Regardless of your opinions on
affirmative action, this is a far cry from "marginalizing
the Serbs". Moreover, his position on independences a good deal
milder than the way you portray it, but you seem to have made
up your mind on the matter.
>...But then, there is a big but!
>Serbs certainly have the right (not Serbs in Croatia
>only, but Serbs in General)
>to question internal borders, which are indeed administrative (I still
>did not read a good argument against the argument that the internal
>borders are admnistrative, and that they are arbitrarily drawn).
>Now, when you start to question borders, you get bloodshed,
Any borders are administrative in the sense that country A has
jurisdiction over the citizens in region A. As for the borders being
"arbitrarily drawn", I'll not repeat the entire discussion again,
except to add that the right to question borders is not the issue; as
you well know, the bloodshed comes only when one of the parties
decides to settle its border disputes---or any other disputes, for
that matter---by force.
By your logic, one could just as well say that "when you start
to question" *anything*, "you get bloodshed." (Actually, if there are
people in ex-Yugoslavia who really think this way, it would explain a
lot; I trust however, that you and your "100+ relatives" are smarter
than that.)
Hrvoje
Dragan Curcija
>In article <1992May9.0...@risky.ecs.umass.edu>cur...@medr0.ecs.umass.edu (Dragan Curcija) writes:
>: whose then? Mr. Antonic's maybe (and the list of the true Croats from his
>: internal distribution list) ;-). Think about it, man.
>: >
> With 1 mil displaced persons in Croatia (including refugees from B&H) I
> believe that students from Croatia have moral duty to try to help those
> people. Moreover, it is high time to stop the bloodshed in former YU.
> With the world reluctant to take a decisive action to stop the
> moraly bankrupt federal army, that have broken almost all international
> war conventions and have shown incredible savagery toward inoccent civilians
> and world or former YU cultural heritage and property, I FIND IT INAPPROPRIATE
> OF YOU TO LAUNCH SUCH A CHEAP SHOT AT THOSE PEOPLE.
Hold your horses, will you? If "the list of the true Croats" is ambigous,
let me clarify that I refer to the activists from that inner list, and not to the
readers public (someone who reads "Mine Kampf" does not have to endorse such politics).
So, my sincere appologies if it was ambigous.
As far as activists from that inner list helped 1 mil of displaced
persons in Croatia, please gimme a break! If someone wanted to help displaced
persons in Croatia there were 100 better ways than through that organization that,
in my oppinion, only helped promote ultimate hate and seccesion of Croatia.
For the completeness, let me note that there is also list of pure blooded Serbs
organized through SIEM something (ACTION maybe, somebody will correct me through
hate response anyway). I don't give a damn for activists on both lists, and
don't give a damn about their actions too.
> Being one of those
> "true Croats with a thousand year dream" I can assure you that you are
Did you really have a thousand year dream? I thought through our private
discussions that you did not.
> misplacing many scy silent people with just a few scy contributors who might
> be pro Tudjman oriented. There are many people who are silent with regard to
> this forum because scy is not a healty place to have a constructive
> discussion. Some people are trying, but in vain. Maybe some other time in
> the future, when there is peace in the land of South Slavs.
I agree with you, but it just seams sometimes that it is worth discussing
publicly with some people, and one of them was M. Sablic. Yeah, maybe some other
time, in the future.
>
> Regards,
> Hrabri
Pozdrav,
kai -Visitor
cur...@medr0.ecs.umass.edu (Dragan Curcija) writes:
1 I do not understand why you criticsize a content of a black box without
knowing what is inside. (I should have written only that in the first reply)
2 Besides giving money to the Red Cross or maybe some other charities what
else is possible to do to stop that madness overthere? Be constructive,
please.
:
: > Being one of those
: > "true Croats with a thousand year dream" I can assure you that you are
:
: Did you really have a thousand year dream? I thought through our private
: discussions that you did not.
:
: > misplacing many scy silent people with just a few scy contributors who might
: > be pro Tudjman oriented. There are many people who are silent with regard to
: > this forum because scy is not a healty place to have a constructive
: > discussion. Some people are trying, but in vain. Maybe some other time in
: > the future, when there is peace in the land of South Slavs.
:
: I agree with you, but it just seams sometimes that it is worth discussing
: publicly with some people, and one of them was M. Sablic. Yeah, maybe some other
: time, in the future.
I call back my above questions for the time being. Divergence encountered.
: >
: > Regards,
: > Hrabri
:
: Pozdrav,
: Dragan
:
:
: ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
: Historia Magistra Vitae Est
: ___________________________________________________________________________
Regards,
Hrabri
Nenad Antonic
> Hold your horses, will you? If "the list of the true Croats" is ambigous,
> let me clarify that I refer to the activists from that inner list, and
not to the
> readers public (someone who reads "Mine Kampf" does not have to
endorse such politics).
> So, my sincere appologies if it was ambigous.
> As far as activists from that inner list helped 1 mil of displaced
> persons in Croatia, please gimme a break! If someone wanted to help
displaced
> persons in Croatia there were 100 better ways than through that
organization that,
> in my oppinion, only helped promote ultimate hate and seccesion of Croatia.
> For the completeness, let me note that there is also list of pure
blooded Serbs
> organized through SIEM something (ACTION maybe, somebody will correct
me through
> hate response anyway). I don't give a damn for activists on both lists, and
> don't give a damn about their actions too.
About a year ago Mr. Curcia proudly stated at this forum that he
was not interested in receiving news from the distribution that predates
Croatian-News/Hrvatski-Vjesnik. But, he was criticising the contents.
Today, he is criticising again. Please be more specific. What are
you criticising? Which articles? The fact that there might be some limited
distribution mailing lists (nevertheless, from your criticism I suppose
that you are reading all Croatian AND Serbian limited distr. lists -- quite
interesting :-)?
Now, when you are receiving SIEM (ACTION?), it probably comes
from some distr. list (or just a number of addresses under To: field), how
come that you do not send a copy to me. From what you said, I might be
interested :-)
Certainly, there are some PRIVATE mailing lists (like alumni
association, not open to others :-), there is one for the maintainers of
Croatian-News/Hrvatski-Vjesnik (I do not think that all the readers
in Australia should receive the uptime of a system distributing
e-mail for a part of USA, or Europe), or something else.
Do you have a problem socialising with other people? You can
start your own mailing list, include readers by invitation or announce
the list publicly, and exchange your ideas.
At Carnegie Mellon, almost every project has a separate distr.
list for those working on it to exchange information. Even for some
classes, all the students enrolled (only those who paid the tuition) are
included in a distr. list. Students make their own, for various (mainly
extracurricular) activities.
I do not recall composing any distr. list by `purity of the blood'
criterion, but by something else.
All this was just to ask you:
which action on my part hurts you?
If I had the one thousand years dream, how could this hurt you?
Could you, please, be more specific -- what did I do, say or write? Or was
it just my pride of being a Croat, speaking Croatian and trying to do
my best for the benefit of my homeland. As `Lijepa na\v{s}a', my pride
is irrational (there are bigger, richer and more glorious countries than
Croatia), but only such irrational pride made it possible that Croatia is on
its way of independence, and Croats on their way of equality to other
nations, after many centuries of waiting (since `pacta conventa' in ~1100).
Neither a single man, nor a single party, did much to reach that goal
-- but millions of thousand years dreams.
Who is to be blamed that this process was so painful, with bloodshed
-- it's another story. But that dream -- that's something indestructible,
just given -- and that cannot be changed.
(For a more glorious dream, look at Jewish history.)
The fact that your dream was different, and that you got in
a trap assuming that anything built on the name `Yugoslavia' is right,
and everything else wrong (not respecting the fact that Yugoslav dream
was built on the Croatian one) --- and willing to sacrifice the essence
of the Yugoslav dream for the bare name --- is the same problem with
operationalisation that Croatian dream had in not so distant past (and
not the dream itself).
But ---as I do not prevent you to dream your dream, please let me
dream mine. If you think that something I did (not Mr. Tudjman, nor the
government, nor HDZ -- I have not been nor I am a member of any
party, nor I had opportunity to cast the ballot in 1990) -- but me,
Nenad Antoni\'c, please state it clearly and with arguments, and
feel free to put my name next to it.
If you are criticising something else, please do not use my name.
Thank you.
regards
Nenad Antoni\'c.
pnmi...@igc.org
From: <pnmideast>
Subject: Zagreb Diary
/* Written 3:51 am May 11, 1992 by gn:wamkat in cdp:yugo.antiwar */
/* ---------- "Zagreb Diary" ---------- */
Subject: Zagreb Diary
Zagreb Diary
10 May 1992
Tonight I was for one second or even more really afraid
Vesna T. and I were sitting at the tram station next to
the railway station, waiting for Vesna's tram to come (it
didn't came by the way since they have changed the tram
way, since the street were the bank was exploded last week
is still closed, and there were no signs at the
tramstation saying that the route was different now. we
waited for 1 hour) at 2 in the night. And some policemen
were fooling around with a girl. Then a group of 6 other
police men cam from the direction of the HOS HQ, just
about 150 meters away from the tramstation, in their
company some drunken HOS soldiers in half black (those SS
alike black horse riding pants and camouflage t-shirts),
some heavy revolver hanging on their belt.
They joint the other two cops and started to really talk
angry to the girl, one of the HOS soldier slam her in the
face and cried something in Croatian. The police agents
check her pass and then this soldier hit her again and
went further to a Burac eating place, which is open all
night. Vesna told me that he shouted "When she is a Serb
kill her !". A few minute later they, this soldiers came
back and went in a black fiat, drive to were we where
standing and stopped and went further again. They went
around the block and passed us again and that happened 3
times in a row.
Strange how illegal armed people can just walk and joke
together with the official police, everybody knows that
the HOS army is illegal and that their members should be
arrested. But time after time you see this happening. And
there guns are not water pistols, but bloody real and they
are knowing how to use them, and with a lot less patient
that the police in the Netherlands.
Since the fact that they were obvious looking for trouble
and we were they only ones standing there and I really
felt uncomfortable,
Yesterday, 9 of May was the European day for remembering
the victims of fascism, which was remember at the square
of the big Croats, former square of Victims of fascism,
rename 1.5 year ago. The ground was that the victims or
fascism were killed by Croats mainly (Utachi, during the
war) and that the name remembered a black day out of
Croatian history. The museum of victims of fascism in the
middle of the square was also closed and still not used.
There were about 150 people at the meeting in front of the
building, inclusive a police cop which nicely wrote down
what was been said. Among the people a lot of old
partisans (members of former communists party), which
ofcourse held speeches about partisans, anti fascism, Tito
and comrades (at least that were the words I could
follow). Only Vesna T. said something about modern
fascism.
Furthermore there was a telefax from Simon Wiesenthal,
from which I quote: "I believe that the Croatian
government has already realized that the renaming of this
square and of the buildings and streets was a mistake. I
also believe that all of renamings undertaken in the last
two years and involving names honoring the victims of
fascism should be made undone and the names they received
after the war again be adopted"
At the same morning that this was said a meeting from the
Social Democratic alliance was forbidden by the police,
since they were so-called threathning the state, things
can always be forbidden without any real argument, we are
living under warlaws here. What is fascism ?
Afterwards we went for a coffee at somebody flat, at least
we thought so, we ended up in the nice old party offices
of the former communist party (with Tito still on the
wall), now called SDP (Party for Democratic Changes) and I
was back in the old days. They are one off the smallest
party around and still have the best places in town and
are still discussing like hell about next to nothing.
Not more then two years ago they had the absolute power
and meetings like that where organized by the state, with
big celebrations and long speeches done from good equipped
speaking places and not with a half empty megaphone which
was just powerful enough to be understandable within a 5
meter range. Their police was controlling the actions from
those who are now in power and not vice versa like now.
How fragile is power.
Sometimes you forget it but suddenly it is clear like
glass again, how this state is one big war machine, who
every part of social life somehow is infected and what a
total anarchy we are living in here.
Later that evening (yesterday) we went for a drink, we
past a kiosk in which a daily was laying with big fat
letters on the cover "2000 Chetniks arrested". I bought
the newspaper and ask Aida to translate it. Short and good
it in a place in BiH 2000 Serbs were arrested from which
territorial defense thought that they maybe could get arms
from JNA, when they are leaving. At least that was the
messages (10 lines) after our translation from official
state Croatian into plain honest English. The machine is
everywhere.
The newspaper was full of this type of messages by the
way, another was f.e. that Italy, Austria, Switzerland and
Germany closed their borders and no Yugoslav can enter the
place without visa. And ofcourse the normal crap about
west Europe, who clever we are and that the average
European at least speaks 3 languages beside their own one,
I am capable to speak and understand at least 4 languages
(and read some more), but I have not that many friends who
speak so many, and I am continue together with people
which are working international.
Sometimes I really start to ask myself what is true from
everything I hear and see, is there anyway any possibility
for a normal Croat, who speak no foreign languages to find
out what is really going on.
In is now 4.23 in the morning, I am still working since I
want to clean up some work which have been laying around
and I have to get up at 6.00 anyway to stand in line at
the foreign police station, we will see how far we are
coming. Afterwards Dominique from Ljubljana comes (also a
long term volunteer) to discuss the cooperation in the
making of Intruder (the English Peace magazine which
Ljubljana makes) and International Workcamps which we want
to organize in Croatia, among other things a workcamp in
the Osijek region to reconstructuct community buildings
together with architect without borders.
Then a woman from Beograd comes and I have to explain her
in short how Email works, fastly afterwards we have to
open another account on GreenNet for Beograd because I
really hopes that we will communicating soon. And then....
I still have to finish the fundraising application for
Nives from Mi Za Mir, explain to Vesna J. that I can
better stay in Zagreb and not go with her on Vis, since I
can't work there without good equipment (and my dream that
a good laptop would come some day didn't work out yet),
have to write for Toni a project proposal about
alternative energy. And than I must serious think about
starting to write fundraising application for myself,
since I have spend far to much this weekend to help some
people out of acute money problems (paying doctor bills
for some unemployed friends).
I is going to be a busy day tomorrow I think I hit the
sack for the last two hours of the night, birds starts
singing out side, Vesna T. is already sleeping (she sleeps
in this house since her tram was another hour waiting) and
Vesna J. who normally should be here is working on ARKzin,
it has to be finished tonight. Before the birds started to
sing I hear some gun shots in the relative quiet city
(there is always noise), maybe those drunken soldiers I
met before this evening.
Love and Peace from Zagreb
Wam [:-@ tired and not shaved for some weeks
. P.s. It start to becom elight outside, a new day begin, and according to my phone call just a moment ago with Sa lavonski Brod it is also quiet ther at this
moment, but for how long....
Sorry once more for w my article I wrote during last night, I was just a little pissed off by some reactions.
pnmi...@igc.org
From: <pnmideast>
Subject: Zagreb Diary
/* Written 1:13 pm May 12, 1992 by gn:wamkat in cdp:yugo.antiwar */
/* ---------- "Zagreb Diary" ---------- */
Subject: Zagreb Diary
Zagreb Diary
11 May
Those people who are reading this diary every day or at
least follow it know that I wrote that Zagreb is getting
cleaned up. And they are really planning to get the area
clean before the summer it seems. Since a couple of days
it is a public secret that the police have given an
ultimatum towards the HOS soldiers, they have to leave the
building of the artists society before next Wednesday. Lot
of people are speculating that that won't go without some
violence. On the other the story of yesterday showed that
most police agents openly are friends with this bunch of
NAZIs. As there is a great support among most of the
common people. Paraga is the hero of the common people, he
dares to say what others think.
According to the stories HOS (which is a political party
by the way and this stormtroopers are like the SS of the
NAZI party, they have one member in parliament (a decedent
from HDZ (the governmental alliance from Tudjman), but
many more HDZ parliamentarians are secretly supporting
HOS)) has build up a large arsenal of arms in the building
and most of them have been on the front. If violence will
be used it can come to a real shoot out. I wonder if the
town (the government) will let it come so far.
Anyway there is a good possibility that Zagreb will be in
the main news all over the world at Wednesday evening, we
shall see. Maybe nothing will happen.
They not have to turn in their arms by the way, so the
whole clean up is just a cosmetic change. Like they have
removed the office for citizenship to Novi Zagreb. Out of
the eye of the general public. So many things will happen
this week. Especially around the 15th of May and the days
afterwards.
UNPROFOR will take over the control in eastern Slavonia,
JNA will remove all soldiers from new Yugoslavia out of
Croatia and BiH and the marines will take VIS by force if
JNA will not leave the island by the 15th. Etc. etc.
Today a woman from Beograd was in Zagreb, she showed a
video from a killing of 20 Serbs in Croatia in a little
village in Eastern Slavonia. I wasn't there, but Vesna J.
was rather impressed by it. They killed the Serbs, but
them on a pile and tried to burn the bodies. This film was
shown on Serbian television a few times. This killing was
described in the report of Helsinki Watch, but their it
only stood so and so many Serbs were killed in that and
that village, it makes a hell of a different to know who
people are killed and to see it. Ofcourse similar films
are shown here, how Chetniks kills Muslims, and all that
showing of those war crimes is not particularly speeding
up the peace process and the bringing back together of the
different nationalities. Sometimes I thing it would be
much better if they show films how Serbs, Muslims and
Croats were doing things together, like in the earlier
days. These films shown now makes your heart bleeding and
asking yourself over and over again is it really possible
to ever overcome the gaps in this country in the future.
An other thing what can be said about this war is that I
am still convinced that it would have been a bigger
disaster if the so-called civilized country would have
been part of the game. How the international forces acted
in Kuwait and Iraq couldn't be called civilized. Only
nearly none of this soldiers ever came in eye contact with
his "enemy". The pilots in their tornados and F-16s were
playing more or less the same video game as you can buy to
run on a PC. It is the high technocratic war, in which
bodies are not anymore counted in the hundreds, but often
in the tens of thousands, were no soldier ever will see
what he or she really did. That's the civilized war.
It is not easy being here the only foreigner, I hope that
many would come earlier, I know they will come, but for
the time being so many people lean on me. Now I am going
to Vis, at least that was planned, but people in Zagreb
are getting the feeling that I leave them behind and that
I should stay here. It is hard to be in the middle of
those discussion, not really knowing what would be the
best place to help. But we will see.
I helped the Islamic Center for some days to repair there
faxmachines, now the war is coming back even in my
sleeping room, were my computer is now standing and
receiving faxes directly from Sarajevo and other places,
unfortunately I haven't found the time to type them all
into the net and since we are changing our office neither
have the other once.
Through electronic mail we also found out that there are
many more groups of Serbs and Croats active around the
globe than we know here in Zagreb, especially in the
states. It would be fine if somebody could make an
addresslist for us from all those groups. Thank you in
before hand.
My angriness from a few days ago is over, thanks to the
help of you out there on the net, some of you really
helped me a lot getting my mood back. But I can tell you
it is bloody hard sometimes to realize how far people can
drift away from things which really matters, so often
small things can break us and we except so easily the big
things, the cruelty of war, the nearly standard messages
about what is going on. When I see this fighting on the
nets I think Jesus I am so little, so unexperienced, what
can I do, I can take my bag and go home and leave this all
behind and don't feel guilty anymore, I have done my
share.
Why do I have to stay up night and day, why am I busy with
refugees, helping groups fundraising, dispatching
messages, etc.. Why me and why are the big organizations
so enormous slow and burocratic. What is the matter with
them, can't they see what is going on.
Why do we have to convince German peace groups to send us
help (financially), why they are reacting that they see no
point of sending more money, since the peace groups are
not able to do anything with it. The German sended money
and the war became bigger. Don't blame that on the
peacegroups, the war machinery just got a little bit more
money (a little bit is a huge understatement). When
representatives from Paraga were in Germany they gather
within a few days over 300.000 dm for their fighting
machine, the representatives from the Peace groups from
zagreb and Beograd had to be happy with only 10.000 dm,
that's makes a different.
Ofcourse Peace or no peace is not a question of money, but
it is a question how willing the rest of the world is to
stop this war and stop the suffering of the civilians. If
you see in the UNPROFOR reports that one of the biggest
problems they have is financing the whole operation and if
you hear the screams for help from the UNHR you get sad,
are they really wanting to help this country or are they
just pretending.
Still Love and Peace from zagreb
Wam:-)
Dragan Curcija
> About a year ago Mr. Curcia proudly stated at this forum that he
>was not interested in receiving news from the distribution that predates
>Croatian-News/Hrvatski-Vjesnik. But, he was criticising the contents.
Mr. Antonic, I am Mr. Curcija, not Mr. Curcia. I never stated
proudly or not that I am not interested in receiving news (from Croatian
or Serbian distribution list), so I guess you mixed me up with somebody.
>...
>distribution mailing lists (nevertheless, from your criticism I suppose
>that you are reading all Croatian AND Serbian limited distr. lists -- quite
>interesting :-)?
No, No, No. I am not eligible for either distribution lists (thanks
god). I just sneaked in few of them on both sides (you know, shear curiosity).
> Now, when you are receiving SIEM (ACTION?), it probably comes
>from some distr. list (or just a number of addresses under To: field), how
>come that you do not send a copy to me. From what you said, I might be
>interested :-)
As I said, I don't receive it, but I am sure that you do! right? ;-)
> Do you have a problem socialising with other people? You can
>start your own mailing list, include readers by invitation or announce
>the list publicly, and exchange your ideas.
Oh, you got me with this one. Do you, Mr. Antonic have problems
socializing with other people? I mean, I socialize with buddies and
friends, maybe talking some casual themes, drink few glasses of wine, and,
you know - hang out. I CERTAINLY dont socialize with people organizing
workshops on how to write letters of protest to congresmens, senators,
white house, etc., or interrogate people to disclose their personal data
so that the limited list can remain ... well, limited. Are you suggesting
me that I should organize mail list to socialize? Is that your idea of
socializing? Have you ever heard of dating?
> I do not recall composing any distr. list by `purity of the blood'
>criterion, but by something else.
>
> All this was just to ask you:
>
>which action on my part hurts you?
>
> If I had the one thousand years dream, how could this hurt you?
>Could you, please, be more specific -- what did I do, say or write? Or was
>it just my pride of being a Croat, speaking Croatian and trying to do
>my best for the benefit of my homeland. As `Lijepa na\v{s}a', my pride...
Do you know what hurts me? it hurts me that in realizing your dream
you broke mine, and the dreams of millions of other people. Yes, I belived
that we should live together, and if we have to separate after 70 years, that
it should be done very carefully. I belive that we should go through the
integration process (i.e. becoming part of united Europe), and not opposite,
separate into meaningless nation states, and then bark at each other ever after.
It takes a lots of effort and love to build friendship and tolerance, and it
takes very little do destroy that. You helped very much accelerate that
destruction, among other people, but you helped a lot. Your rethoric that
follows, is pathetic:
-- but millions of thousand years dreams.
> Who is to be blamed that this process was so painful, with bloodshed
>-- it's another story. But that dream -- that's something indestructible,
>just given -- and that cannot be changed.
>(For a more glorious dream, look at Jewish history.)
"but that dream"... how glorious! is there music in background?
Serbian nationalists have the dream of uniting all Serbs (and getting some
more teritory, if possible), Croatian nationalists have the eternal dream of
becoming independent (and also getting some more teritory, if possible), and
the rest have blood, tears, and suffering. Millions of displaced persons,
butchered innocent civilians, torchured children, overall destruction and
reputation of the absolutely worst place on the planet earth today. How nice!
The war is likely to escalate, the number of dead and displaced is
likely to double, tripple, ... the things are likely to get out of hands
completely, and then .... most likely there will be some foreign tutorship
over both Serbians and Croatians, so at the end we will be both dominated by
some other nation, like it was at the very begining, 70 years ago.
>
> The fact that your dream was different, and that you got in
>a trap assuming that anything built on the name `Yugoslavia' is right,
>and everything else wrong (not respecting the fact that Yugoslav dream
>was built on the Croatian one) --- and willing to sacrifice the essence
>of the Yugoslav dream for the bare name --- is the same problem with
>operationalisation that Croatian dream had in not so distant past (and
>not the dream itself).
Well, Yugoslav dream was built on the dream of Croatian intelectuals
with the braod views, and open minds. You don't have to do anything in
that company. By quoting those people you are only insulting them.
As far as "my willing to sacrifice the essence of the Yugoslav dream
for the bare name" is nothing else but unsubstantiated blabbing. I think
that the Yugoslavia that Serbia is trying to organize is just a mask for the
greater Serbia, and I am opposing the very name being attached to that creation.
It is neither better nor worse than new Croatia, it is EQUALLY bad.
>...
> If you are criticising something else, please do not use my name.
>Thank you.
>
> regards
>
> Nenad Antoni\'c.
>
Pozdrav,
BLAZIC Joseph R
>
> Oh, you got me with this one. Do you, Mr. Antonic have problems
>socializing with other people? I mean, I socialize with buddies and
>friends, maybe talking some casual themes, drink few glasses of wine, and,
>you know - hang out.
It certainly must be very nice to have so much money that you can travel
all across the Western World to converse with lots of different and
interesting people. I envy you.
> "but that dream"... how glorious! is there music in background?
>Serbian nationalists have the dream of uniting all Serbs (and getting some
>more teritory, if possible), Croatian nationalists have the eternal dream of
>becoming independent (and also getting some more teritory, if possible), and
>the rest have blood, tears, and suffering. Millions of displaced persons,
>butchered innocent civilians, torchured children, overall destruction and
>reputation of the absolutely worst place on the planet earth today. How nice!
>....
>It is neither better nor worse than new Croatia, it is EQUALLY bad.
Dear Dragan,
Does it hurt to sit on the fence like that?
Joe Blazic
bla...@ecf.toronto.edu
P.S. Yes that last sentence was a little sharp, but to the point.
Hrvoje J Hrgovcic
>
> Why am I not getting through to you? Why do you feel obliged
>to follow sacred politics of Mr. Tudjman? Whose thousand year old dream
>he is advocating? Mr. Antonic's maybe? (and the list of the true
>Croats from his internal distribution list) ;-). Think about it, man.
There is no bigotry more vile
than that manifested
in those who denounce it.
You are making some very
sweeping judgments
about people you obviously have little interest
in really getting to know.
>>
>>Mladen Sablic
>>...
>>P.P.S. I hope that you do not mind that on so many occasions I made
>>assumptions on what are your opinions, correct me if I am wrong.
>
> Actually, yes, I do mind. I think that I corrected you in my
>posting.
>
>Regards,
>Dragan
>
Further case in point.
Hrvoje H
sven hauptfeld
>to question internal borders, which are indeed administrative (I still
>did not read a good argument against the argument that the internal
>borders are admnistrative, and that they are arbitrarily drawn). Now, when
Such argument is not needed. ALL borders are either administrative or a product
of forceful occupation. There is no third possibility.
Sven
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Historia Magistra Vitae Est
>___________________________________________________________________________
History will teach us nothing.
- Sting
pnmi...@igc.org
From: <pnmideast>
Subject: Zagreb Diary
/* Written 10:40 am May 14, 1992 by gn:wamkat in cdp:yugo.antiwar */
/* ---------- "Zagreb Diary" ---------- */
Subject: Zagreb Diary
Zagreb Diary
12/13 May 1992
Sun is shinning and bombs are falling, it is starting to be a
real summer now. The whetter is great and I have been watching
an English promotion film on Croatian television about the
island of Vis, starting today 3 times a week a special tourist
airplane route is established between Zagreb and Vis. So the
idea to start eco-touristic activities on Vis is under attack
by the mass-tourism industry. For the time being however this
promotion film said: "When the Yugoslav Army will have left
the Island it will became a heaven of Peace". So somewhere we
agreed, unfortunately the army is still there and just like
Yugoslav army also Croatian army has changed their admirals
and generals last week, the new, younger once are known as
real iron-eaters.
Tuesday evening Ben and some other came by for a visit, before
we go to Vis (if we go) it would be good to see each other
once more. Now he is demobilized I am not so afraid anymore of
not seeing him back again (I have got other friends on the
front though, to be worried about) and I was sure that one day
we would met again. I was great to see him, he was in many
ways a lot more quiet as the first time. Happy that his
demobilization appeal was excepted and glad that he could work
on his institute again (institute for social research, he is
doing research on youth subcultures and how they "survived" in
the war).
He brought a tape with him with war rock songs (in Croatian
and some in Cro-English) which was made in the first months of
the war (today I have been going through the town to find it,
but is not anymore there), it is a big different with the type
of rocksongs made now. Some how the first once have something
in it as protest against the bloodshed, the the last
generation of songs is more "We are going to win and kill all
the Serbs, tatatatatata". Except from one "nice" song about a
soldier who writes a letter to his friend in Beograd. Telling
him that he is full of worries that one day there both will be
at the front on the Sava and his friend will shoot two times
on him, but that the singer in the end will kill his friend
from Beograd. Why can't we just drink beer together ?
It is by the way, very obvious that 75% of the people in and
around ARK are former students and professors of philosophy
and sociologic, most even from the same year of period. The
core group from ARK is between 27 and 30 years old and most of
them know each other for years. Around it mostly some older
people (36 like me and older), who are working as teachers,
professors, scientific researchers and journalists. A real
elite bunch with other words.
Most of the younger people, 17-25, in Zagreb and Croatia are
not so critical and against the war in seems. They are the
major suppliers for the army and anti war activities at
universities and other higher education institutions are
hardly not visit. The brainwash machine from the state has
done his job. And what have happened outside the universities
you can guess. The first picture from Zagreb last year were
football hooligans from the Bad Blue Boys fighting in the
streets with football fans from Beograd.. They are still
fighting, only with weapons this time.
Ben told me that this fights between Croatian football team
also continue on the front between the fanclubs of the
different football teams. They not only try to be better than
each other, but also harder and more known at the front as
good fighters. One of the groups of the Bad Blue Boys (fanclub
from former Dynamo Zagreb) had their own tank (with the
gravity "Terminal Nuclear Warriors" on it).
After Ben and the others left, a few hours after the official
closing time of the pubs, it was quiet in the town, only far
away you could hear sometimes some riffle shoots and I even
heard some automatic guns going off, I think about 2
kilometers away. But I was waiting for the morning, waiting
for the expected concerto of guns in front of the railway
station. But as expected nothing real happened. A few hundred
supporters of HOS blocked the entrance of the building, in the
windows soldiers were hanging with their guns and about 50
policecops were standing there not knowing what to do, so they
give HOS 8 days more to leave the building. We will see.
Today I have been mostly busy with installing telephone and
other lines at the new office. I talk with people in Osijek,
which went through the hardest night of this year, the attacks
of JNA on Osijek were stronger than in the former months. They
are now shooting again from both sides, so mortier grenades
are flying all over the town. The telephone line with Sarajevo
are cut again, the last phonecall I had was with somebody in a
building which was burning. As expected JNA also has changed
their generals and it seems that the new ones will or destroy
everything they can't get or take all areas before UNPROFOR
takes over.
In the evening I talk with a doctor of one of the hospitals
again, she told me that the number of abortions is now about
50% higher than normal. And the propaganda against abortions
is also growing, under the motto "Don't kill a Croat" the
catholic church is busy to get the freedom of abortion out of
the laws. Already two major hospitals in Zagreb have stopped
doing abortions. The anti-conception information is now
totally stopped, more and more propaganda is made for having
real Croats now.
She also told me about the talks she has with the soldiers who
come back and are totally emotional broken. They keep
themselfs up by saying there are people even worst than me. "I
maybe took the eyes out of a Serb with my knife, but I know
that Serbs have cut open pregnant women to feed the embryo to
a dog". And that are the moderate stories.
Also that the sanotorium, where normally chronical patients
come to rest are now taken over by the army and that the
normal patients haven't got any place in town anymore. The
health care for not soldiers and not young ones is rapidly
going down. Alcoholism (the official figures are forbidden,
since it could be used by the "enemy") is growing like hell
and a lot higher than the 15% of the adult population as it
was before the war, she estimate it more in the direction of
40% at this moment. But program for not-soldiers who are
alcoholics are stopped.
I respect her a lot that she can do her job, since she is half
Serb/half Jewish (with a Jewish (German) familyname). I may be
a foreigner in this country, but all people who are living in
Croatian all their live and are not Croats are also becoming
foreigners, they get check before they can work somewhere,
they are lower than everybody else. Together with her I
discussed the start of some talking groups for not Croats, to
exchange their experiences and maybe give each other some
help. She said that it is like living in a ghetto.
Love and Peace from Zagreb
Wam still :-)
pnmi...@igc.org
From: <pnmideast>
Subject: Zagreb Diary
/* Written 9:11 pm May 15, 1992 by gn:ark in cdp:yugo.antiwar */
/* ---------- "Zagreb Diary" ---------- */
Subject: Zagreb Diary
Zagreb Diary
Friday, May 15, 1992
Band on the run!!!!!
It is even clear in western Europe now that UNPROFOR is moving
out of BiH, they leave Banja Luka and Sarajevo, my mother
phoned and told me that on Dutch television it was shown how
the Dutch HQ was shot at and that they had to run for their
lives. And I must admit that we are mostly laughing loudly
about those informations. UNPROFOR, the United Nations, the
big Peace keeping forces, how they came 4 weeks ago with their
whole promotion circus and image that they would stop the
problems, is now on the run. If one thing became clear from
this UNPROFOR operation it is that it was badly, badly
organized, who else would have put their HQ in an area where
it was likely to exploded. If the factfinders had done their
job a little more precise they would have known, now many
hopes, and time and money is spend and UNPROFOR made itself
like stupid clowns.
Since a few days they are not allowed to wear their uniforms
in the town, after the fights between Croatian soldiers and
with Croatian boys that is no stopped. As well as their active
involvement with Croatian girls, only the MP from UNPROFOR
still is in uniform. For the rest you see them running around
the time in groups of 6 or 7 playing the average tourists. It
is nice to hear them speak, especially those languages which I
can or nearly can understand are feeling save here and are
talking loudly, so I hear nice macho stories, how they have
been active in different zones and complains how badly
organized the operation is.
Bad it is to be ashamed, UNPROFOR, Red Cross, Medicines
without Frontiers and others running as hell out of Sarajevo,
leaving 500.000 people behind. By the way our estimation at
ARK is that only app. 200.000 persons in the whole of former
Yugoslavia are really interesting in fighting, the for the
power top, but the rest of the 22.000.000 would love to live
in peace which each other. That is less then 1% all those
other people now have to pay the bill. Rumors are also that
UNHC for refugees will stop their operation, since he couldn't
get the money together. Really guys I am going to drill for
oil tomorrow and I am going to find it, or diamants or
something.
Former Yugoslavia is in no way less democratic or aggressive
as the leadership of Kuwait, so the arguments which are used
in that direction are just bullshit. It is also bullshit to
talk any longer about Yugoslavia and her internal borders, we
have officially an international war going on, between
sovereign states. Only when new Yugoslavia withdraw all their
soldiers, JNA and Serbian Chetniks equally from BiH and
Croatia, when can speak again from civil wars. But it is
obvious that that isn't the case at this moment.
Where is that solidair feeling of the international opinion
with the 22.000.000 people here which are becoming the victims
of bad management of their leaders. Okay the are elected
somehow democratically, what is democratic if people own the
whole media. Democracy in Croatia is dictated by the west,
discussion about human rights are no initiate of Croatian
parliament, but are happening under pressure from the west.
This country would slip into a total dictatorship if you leave
it outside the international pressure. Where possible the
social and political life is under control of the state. The
warlaws make it easy to order and forbid almost everything
what looks like opposition. Under the header that the safety
of the participants are endangered since some elements (ultra
right) things are easily forbidden.
The only reason that oppositional activities can take place is
the fact that the state is too much occupied with fighting
their war and getting their economy somehow back together
again and that therefore the police has other priorities. But
when that pressure was gone I would give a dinar for the
opposition. They are simply not strong enough and too much
busy to survive financially to be a block of serious
influences.
Yes, my friends, I am surprised that the UN or similar
organization are not investing a part of their money to build
up democracy and the forming of undepended social movements in
countries under war. 1% of the UNPROFOR budget would make a
different for the work of most of the groups here, and there
for their influence in the public media.
I can't find any excuses anymore for myself for not being
here, every bloody day I am facing the cruelty of war and the
machinery which creates it. It is a killer virus, it totally
dismantle a healthy mechanism and makes it running around like
a chicken without a head as we say in Dutch. If I could turn
it of for two days and spend that two days thinking and
writing fund applications I would love those moments. Time is
however not on our side around here.
The project on Vis is an example how we have to fight time, on
this moment for us in Zagreb the priority lays in getting our
movement off the ground and taking the Vis project of the
ground now means a lot of energy and people, we simply need
them here. But we feel guilty of not being there since they
are waiting on the Island for peace activists to come.
nevertheless a small group of activists started an enormous
public scandal around here, even the President mentioned it
some weeks ago in his press conference.
One of the biggest problems we have to face is that the
international press writes only about the fightings and the
most obvious problems, but they don't tell about the life, the
machinery around it. They form a picture if everybody in those
country went mad and are doing nothing else than fighting each
other and that is absolutely untrue. We know that there is
hunger in Africa on this moment and that they should be
helped, we also now that over 500.000 persons in BiH are in
acute hunger danger. And that the food supplies for Croatia
are just enough to come through summer and there is no way
anymore to change that, the fields are laying useless in the
sun. And ofcourse the problems in the rest of the world are
greater and more important, but please 22.000.000 people here
are also endangered, from which over 2.000.000 acute.
Tonight we will have another open air concert, it is the world
day of CO's today and a start for a more intents campaign for
promoting the law on CO in Croatia, not that that will stop a
war, but only to tell that it is possible without getting
abroad or in the underground. The fight to idiocy that people
are send to the front when they are waiting for their decision
to be approved as CO.
I must honestly commit that I have run a little bit out of
lies towards Sarajevo, when I have to explain them why the
rest of the world is not really helping them. It that's time,
they will react, just wait, wait for bloody what, until the
outside world can start remembering action on the day that
Sarajevo falls. Why do they not receive enormous amount of
support faxes, or Beograd to bring them to Sarajevo, if the
lines are out. They bloody need it. They in Sarajevo are doing
all they can do, even bringing out WHY?, when the bombs are
falling on their heads. Nada goes on, even after they have
destroyed their office and threatening here for betraying the
Serbian case (she is from Serbian nationality, who said that
all the Serbs are fighting or feeling threaten by Croats and
Muslims (maybe those in Zagreb, and they have a reason (but
not all reasons are always true (if somebody is refused for a
job, that is not always because of nationality, but it is
easily been said so)))).
I feel a lot like UNPROFOR, promising golden mountains, but am
not able to even deliver a tiny little pebble. maybe it would
be better to go home and start fundraising from there, maybe
that would have more effect. I don't know, I often feel so
isolated, so like Don Quichotte, fighting for windmills in an
area without wind. Not that I am depresses or anything and I
have a strong believe that you are coming out somehow.
Now I will try again to finish my fundraising proposal for
Nives Mi Za Mir, she is waiting for it.
Love and Peace from Zagreb,
Wam:-)
pnmi...@igc.org
From: <pnmideast>
Subject: Zagreb Diary
/* Written 2:33 am May 18, 1992 by gn:wamkat in cdp:yugo.antiwar */
/* ---------- "Zagreb Diary" ---------- */
Subject: Zagreb Diary
/* Written 2:31 am May 18, 1992 by wamkat in gn:yugo.antiwar */
/* ---------- "Zagreb. Diary" ---------- */
Subject: Zagreb. Diary
Zagreb Diary
May 16/17 1992
Maybe it is good to put some things right again, I write this
diary to explain what it is to live in a city under war, what
kind of things you see and hear. I start with this explanation
since I had some critical comments from different sides over
the last weeks, saying that I was busy with Serbian, Croatian
or Muslim propaganda. It is clear that I try to stay as
neutral as I can and try to discribe as honest as I can be
what during a day in zagreb or surroundings happens and what
you hear in the pubs, in the papers, on the streets, on the
television or whatever.
It are not always facts, at least the contence of the stories,
which I hear and which I write down I am not always capable to
verify them, it is ofcourse true that somebody told them to
me.
To clarify some of those things, I wrote f.e. about the
possibilities of traveling in former Yugoslavia. On the the
header Croatia I mentioned the "the SO-CALLED occupied
territories", I also could have written, "the occupied
territories", by using the word "SO-CALLED" I make clear that
there are different opinions about the status of these
territories. Since I don't know what really happened in those
regions and how the people in those regions think about their
status and if that opinion is real or just propaganda I have
described them as "SO-CALLED".
Same ofcourse for the "SERBIAN FREE REPUBLIC KRAJINA", these
the "official" name given to this area, not by me, but by
those who call themselves at this moment in time the official
representatives of the people. I haven't been in the area and
I haven't talk with the population there. What I know is that
it is less free, than what my wordbook understand under
freedom. By calling that part by it "official" name and still
mentioning it under the "so-called occupied territories" it is
clear that I also tried here to stay as two-sided as I can be.
Last but not least, some days ago (12 May) I described a talk
with a person who worked in one of the hospitals in Zagreb and
that she told me about Croatian soldiers who behaved like
animals at the front, to put it more clear. I wrote her story
down and unfortunately not clear enough so that me readers got
the impression that I wrote it down as facts. In Zagreb as
anywhere else in former Yugoslavia it is hard to call a story
a fact and even to call a fact a fact, since every story has
her or his counter part. If I write that Serbs in Zagreb feel
left out of the possibility to find work or think that they
are just sacked because they are Serbs ,than at that moment I
am writing down a feeling of a person. In is bloody well
possible that the other candidate was just better in that
special tasks. Facts and feelings are hard to keep apart.
A fact is that I was present when somebody from ARK was
insulted since he was a Serb, just because he said his last
name. Within ARK we have about all possible nationalities and
mixtures from former Yugoslavia united, but most of them
rather like to call them citizens of this part of the Balkans
or the World(because even the word or term Yugoslav has a the
same political load as any of the other nationalities in these
countries, the former state Yugoslavia was certainly not want
they saw as their ideal country) than Croat, Serb, Moslim,
Albanian or Slovenian. In principle it don't make so much
different since most of them are brought up in Zagreb or are
living there for a big part of their live and never before it
made a point, which nationality the other had, so why should
it make a different now.
Another example is f.e. the story which was posted and is a
translation of an article of the weekly newspaper "Duga",
which is published in Beograd and more or less described to me
as being not too serious (if that is true, I don't know, but
as said it has been described to me that way), the story they
published about Kupres was horrifying, it is a lot similar
with the story about Bijeljina, with which I was confronted
with the third day of my stay here. During the last weeks
however SDA (the mostly Islamic party in Bosnia and
Herzegovina) wrote me also about Kupres and told about the
same stories just the other way round. In fact when the both
stories are true, there are not much people in Kupres who
survived the both attacks (by Utachi and JNA) and they have
all been slaughtered the most cruel way you can imagine.
A remarkable fact however was that in this story in "Duga"
everybody which wasn't of Serbian nationality was called
either Muslim or Utachi ,and with Utachi the writer mend
probebly all of "Croatian" nationality. Since Utachi are just
like Chetniks a group named after fascistic organizations in
the second war world, both fighting for the Nazis (together by
the way) and therefore already by choosing that name they
express a certain political view, a view which is certainly
not shared by everybody which coincidentally born out of
racial Croatian parents or lives in an area which belongs to
the territory of the state Croatia (you see what I have to do
to describe people without putting any type of political
loaded label on them), as well as those people who live in
area outside Croatia, which has a majority of racial Croats
(or whatever you want to call it). With other words using the
word Utachi to describe that group of persons is a political
choice and is part of war and hate propaganda. In principal
only those which belongs to the fighting force of HOS or are
sympathic to their cause call themself Utachi, they are the
promotors of the Great Croatia idea. This use of the word
Utachi instead of Croatian started already a few years ago and
can therefore be seen as part of the media war (this part of
the story I could verify since as proof I found some papers
published in Beograd (no I am not saying Serbian papers) from
afew years back).
Even when I discussed this text a few minute ago with somebody
it became a pity heavy discussion, every term, every word,
every description you use is having an enormous political and
emotional load. You can laugh about it, becoming angry or sad
about it, but somehow you have to respect it. It is the
reality, you have to walk on your tiptoes. Not easy if you are
not use to it, especially if you are use to talk in a more
fast and generalitic way, thinking that everybody understood
what you mend, without using to many long sentences to explain
something. Now you maybe can imagine how hard and difficult it
is to discuses something, within no-time somebody is offended,
without he or she has a reason for it.
I honestly must confess that I never been in my life in a
place where you have to be so enormous careful with your words
and terms you use. And not only here a lot of people seems to
be enormous fast offended, but more or less I have got the
feeling tjhat everybody involved in this part of the world is
very tensioned and fastly confinced that the other means
something different than what the writer (m/v) mend. And
please remember I am not English from mother tongue, I don't
have the enormous vocabulary which an english speaking person
has, it is somehow still a black and white languages for,
without all the different colors of the rainbow which you need
to describe everything tenderful. Neither have I any family
relationship in or with these countries, I just try to do my
best to write down what a stupid Dutch guy sees and feels.
Please try to read between the lines next time before climbing
in your computer and write me a critical messages, I am agree
with you, believe me it is not my style to take sides.
All of this keep me from writing what I have experienced the
last two days, the shooting in the street in front of the
house I am sleeping, some drunken soldier tried to shoot out a
lightpool. Saturday night, by the way, is always full with
shooting, and this night it was also full moon (the news
papers report daily from accidents with happens with weapons).
The nice concert and roundtable we have had for and about
CO's. The fightings in Sarajevo, which went on and became
harder. The police agents who are posted more than drunk on
the street inspecting cars for bombs (and skip every hour to
take a drink in some pub). The prices on the green market,
which have been highering up during the last days, the food
shortness is slowly coming closer. Or that Ibrahim from the
International Peacecenter in Sarajevo just ask us to write
faxes (yes the telephone lines are working again, but it is
like playing on a gamble machine, you never know) to his
government and PTT to get him a new telephone line (just that
feeling, in the middle of the fights we have to press his
government to install a new telephone line in his shelter, can
you feel it, Ibrahim is doing great work by the way, but
sometimes... anyway we have sended the fax, since it is
important that the center has an own telephone line), or that
on the televison a demostration was shown from people from
Serbian nationality in Sarajevo who protested against SDS and
all attacks on their city and country by not so-called Serbian
forces (maybe some Croats and Muslim also joint that
manifestation).
Or explain that I am NOT feeling despressed, even I feel a
little useless and totaly misplaced once and a while, most of
the time I feel that I am busy with something what somebody
somewhere can help, but thanks anyway all thsoe people who
send me positive messages over the last days. Excuses for
those who are still waiting on answers for qeustions, I am
trying to get them answered.
Love and Peace from Zagreb
Wam:-)
pnmi...@igc.org
From: <pnmideast>
Subject: Zagreb Diary
/* Written 11:57 am May 19, 1992 by gn:wamkat in cdp:yugo.antiwar */
/* ---------- "Zagreb Diary" ---------- */
Subject: Zagreb Diary
Zagreb Diary
18 May 1992
Via Joel, who is a big help for me getting my stuff out on the
Universitynets and vice versa I have heard that I have made a
promotion in some people eyes. I have now the nice title
"Communists", fantastic, especially since I have spend nearly
8 months of my life in different jails in so-called socialist
or/and communist countries in Europe over the last 15 years.
For over 8 years I was not able to get any permission to visit
any country in Eastern Europe (except Yugoslavia, which never
was consider being an Eastern European country). But who
cares, communist, pacifist, socialist, anarchist, humanist,
ecologist, for me it is all the same.
A few months back I visit with an American friend Praha and
showed him the building were I have been in hold for over 4
months, since the it self communists calling government of
that country didn't liked my activities so much. During that
time back in 78 I had a lot of free moments to think about
things. They (the VB, police of the former CSSR) thought that
I was a capitalist spy, paid by the FBI or CIA or any other
secret services to organize anti communist activities in their
wonderful country. The building, which I never saw before the
revolution in 1989 (I was transported in a closed police car
and putted in a cell without any windows, lights on and of
every 4 hours) has a special place in my heart, I learned
there to relay on my own willpower and not being offended by
anything what I didn't like to let my hurt.
I must say that I was laughing when Joel told me that I just
made that promotion on the university nets. As said who cares,
I never did, I just did what my heart told me to do and when I
was arrested on the sqaure of the Red Brigades square for
renaming it in the name it has now, Jan Palach square, I
wasn't even surprised. I knew that they couldn't react
otherwise then with force.
But it was nice, being called communists in the Netherlands
(they always advised me to go abroad (over the wall)) and
capitalist and imperialist in communist countries.
Maybe I am a communists, I don't know. I know that my official
status is being an unemployed from the Netherlands and at this
moment I am illegally in Croatia, without any income what so
ever, since the Dutch state stopped my unemployment benefit
back home (I am obvious not available for the work market over
there at the moment and therefore I lost my rights). So in
principle I am a no body, a parasite of society, useless for
every society which firstly believe in rules and not in human
beings. I don't know how you should call somebody like that.
Like Joel in the states nobody is paying me anything to be
here and doing what I am doing, up to now I have paid my own
expensives and whenever somebody or some group gives me money
to continue they need to know who I am and how I think.
Every newspaper you read here, every newsprogramme you listen
or watch here is telling you about the cruelty of war, it
doesn't matter that much if the story tells about killings
done by Utachi, Chetnik, Croatian army or JNA, dead bodies are
dead bodies and they never will be alive. For six weeks now I
try to find out how there is anybody who can adjust this
killing. Ofcourse it is a downwards spiral, you have killed my
friends, so I will kill you and so on. And the core of the
killings maybe goes as far back as the second world war, or
even a lot further.
I could be mad and offended by somebody calling me Chetnik,
what happened, or Utachi, what also happened, or capitalist,
what I am, or communist, I could use my brain to find other
more cruel words to defend myself. And when I run out of words
I can buy myself a nice riffle and start my own war. I ask
myself what is the use of it. Why does anybody out there want
to offend me, why does anybody want to try to hurt me. What is
the need of trying to bring me down.
I am not able to read every thing which is published in the
mailing list of soc.culture.yugoslavia since not everything is
brought over to the APC networks. That is maybe good, because
I understand that also there there is a war going on. Let's be
honest with ourself. You can call me anything you want, accuse
me from any mistake I make, ignore me, love me, or whatever,
it would stop the killing for one tiny second. So I ask myself
if you disagree with me why spending time on me and when you
spend time on me, why not constructive.
With other words, I am a fool, I don't know the answers and I
don't know why it is necessary that everybody is fighting and
killing each other. I don't understand it. So if there is
anybody out there who think that he or she has an answer for
me, which I can understand let him or her please speak out.
Let's not fight, but discuss, teaching each other. You are not
helping me, neither the peace process a bit by fighting me
with words.
I ask myself what does this people want from me, do they like
to test me if I am real, if I have feelings, if I can take
sides. Yes, my dear I have feelings and often after having
talked with refugees and I have heard their stories I have to
cry in my heart. When I am coming home (or what I call home
for the time being) I have to meditate and even drink some
cheap vodka to cool down my emotions. And honestly I don't
have to call long distances or read e-mail or watch newspapers
I just have to go around the corner to get confronted with
those cruelties. And yes I have taken sides, I have taken the
side of all the dead people, Muslim, Croats, Serbs, Albanians
equal.
I sincerly hope that you understand me, that you understand
that I don't want to hurt anybody. Help me to understand why
we have to kill eachother to make our point. Help me to
understand why people are getting totally mad around here. In
the six weeks that I have been here I have seen at least 3
people going totally through the wall. Normally very stabile
and balanced people who just went totally mad, running around
like idiots, not knowing what to do anymore.
Every day around 3 o'clock I watch the BIG BLUE, a special
programme for the UNPROFOR troops from Croatian television. In
todays programme their was an report from an press conference
given by the Major of Osijek in which he openly attacked
UNPROFOR for not being able to do their job in the east
sector. Osijek is going through the hardest attacks since the
beginning of the war since UNPROFOR took over. The role of
UNPROFOR is more and more openly critisied. Ofcourse I is not
the job of UNPROFOR to stand in between the fighting forces,
they have a tight job description, which includes that they
only come in action when the both sides keep their promised
cease fires. But this is hard to understand if you are under
attack like the people in Osijek.
By the way there are more idiots like me which came to this
country just for a few weeks and stayed, f.e. one of the
Maltezer knights came 8 months ago and is still here busy with
the refugees.
pnmi...@igc.org
From: <pnmideast>
Subject: Zagreb Diary
/* Written 1:35 pm May 19, 1992 by gn:wamkat in cdp:yugo.antiwar */
/* ---------- "Zagreb Diary" ---------- */
Subject: Zagreb Diary
Zagreb Diary
19 May 1992
I am sitting behind my computer and I have a serious problem
with me political and human believe. People from Sarajevo and
Zagreb have asked me to help to find out more about the war
crimes which have been and are taking place during these wars.
They have ask me to help to get money to make 50.000
qeustionaires which can be spread around the refugees asking
them to report what they have seen.
My problem is that they want to have names and dates to able
to bring those people to court when these wars are over. And
just there lays my problem, I don't know if it is good to
bring people to court, since I don't believe in jails or other
punishments. I believe that people should be able to forgive
each other, even when that seems to be incredible hard.
As said before some weeks before, would it have made any sense
to trance my whole life those who were responsible for killing
Jews (my own family) in the second world war. Should I look at
every German I meet with a feeling inside that his or her
father maybe killed my relatives. Should I be angry on every
police agent who ever arrested me. Should I have bad feelings
for every person who ever tried to hurt me.
I can't solve this problem all by myself, it is too big for
me. I am afraid that the war will go on in the courtrooms,
that people keep on hating each other and that within no time
to whole madness will start all over again.
On the other hand war crimes have taken place, big ones, small
ones, whatever, people have behaved themselves as animals (and
that is the wrong word, since most animals would never do with
their own species what people have been and are still doing
here).
Therefore I included the letter of Ibrahim Spahic from the
International Peace center in Sarajevo:
--------------------------------------------------------------
Sarajevo 17 May
fax +38-71-648016
+38-71-666455
Dear friends,
On this occasion we would like to ask you to help us in
collecting all relevant information regarding war crimes and
crimes against humanity what have been done within territory
of the republic of Bosnia and Herzegovina during this war
which is unfortunately still going on.
Considering that in your country (Croatia) a great number of
refugees from BiH are placed.
We would like to ask you to organize interviews with some of
them who were witnesses of a war crime and inform us about
facts as follows:
1. Name of the witness
2. Description of the crime
3. Name of victim or any other information which can help in
order of identification of the victim
4. The facts about the persons who were involved in doing this
crimes (name of the person or any other information in order
to help in identification, name of the armed formation, name
of the officers who ordered crime or other evidences (photo,
video tape))
In order to send this information to a court
----------------------------------------------
I hope that you understand that I don't want to hurt Ibrahim
and that I can understand his reaction after being under
attack in Sarajevo for nearly 5 weeks now. But I hope you also
understand my lack of willingness to help to put people to
court.
Nevertheless it would be good to gather the facts of this war
by organizing a huge campaign among the refugees from all
sides and nationalities to gather the their stories. But
without the aim of putting people to court. This operation
would be a good task for an international peace or human right
organizations, carried out by a huge number of international
volunteers (since they will be more neutral then volunteers
from these countries).
I was just looking at the news from Sarajevo, every day it get
worst, today a humanitarian aid convoy will try to get through
from Zagreb, so let's pray they make it. The people (friends)
in Sarajevo need the help, try to fax them a small note if you
can, people there feel more and more left alone now UNPROFOR,
Red Cross and other organizations are leaving the town. Today
I have gathered information for people from Germany and the UK
who want to go to Sarajevo, the only practical advice I can
give at this moment is that if they are able to come there,
but nobody can give any guarantee that they ever will come
out. We don't know yet which routes are open, we are still
waiting for messages from Beograd and Split from people who
have tried to get through earlier this week. Up to now they
seems not to be in Sarajevo yet, so before I don't know how
those trips ended I am not willing to give anybody else the
hope to get through and risks their lives.
I know that that is not a decision I can take, since Ibrahim
and others are waiting for people from abroad to come and give
them hope, but on the other hand I want to absolute sure about
the information I am giving. It is not good to send people
into the war zone with half half information and above all
already enough people died. I don't want to have the dead of
people on my mind, who I have given wrong information. The
best information I can give is that those who like to go to
Sarajevo inform themselfs at the International Red Cross or
any other huge international aid organization who organize
convoys and try to hook on such a convoy.
It is weird saying the destruction of Sarajevo on television
and at the same moment saying on the screen of my computer
that the fax I have send to Ibrahim with questions about how
people can go to Sarajevo getting through the telephone line.
A modern war, where you still can be in contact with the
people who are living in the shelters of Sarajevo if nothing
is happening.
It is a pity that none of my friends here has enough money to
buy themselves a satellite receiver, since in such days I
would like to watch CNN and see what they have to show. I
always will remember that picture of a Pershing 2 flying
through the streets of Baghdad and destroying a house in the
same street as the hotel from which CNN was broadcasting. It
is a weird weird world.
Love and peace from zagreb
Wam :-) tired like hell, since I haven't been sleeping last
night.
pnmi...@igc.org
From: <pnmideast>
Subject: Zagreb Diary
/* Written 11:39 am May 20, 1992 by gn:wamkat in cdp:yugo.antiwar */
/* ---------- "Zagreb Diary" ---------- */
Subject: Zagreb Diary
Zagreb Diary
20-05-1992
Dear Friends,
Let me tell first some results from a meeting Nina organized
in app. 1 day, since we planned it Thursday just before she
left to Berlin to do some explaining work there. On that day
we in the evening the possibility to organize workcamps with
refugees in July and August. Just simple workcamps to do some
simple activities with children and youth in the huge refugees
camps which the UN will build up in this country in the coming
months. We guess that by half July the first camps will be
ready by the speed things are going and that the return from
the refugees to their homelands and cities will take a while.
And that's not only here in Croatia but all over the different
republics. Due to the fact that the surrounding countries have
closed their borders more and more the problem concentrated
itself around BiH, all have their own refugees problems.
I ask Nina to contact her friends with whom she did already
voluntary work in the smaller centra with up 700 people around
Zagreb. In that one day that she had she rounded up 10 people,
and a whole list of people who didn't came but surely would
love to come if they didn't had anything else to do. I thought
that it was a problem to find teamleaders for workcamps,
forget it we have enough people to cover that, we already had
the right contacts for Osijek, Split and Rijeka, since that
are also obvious places were camps will be build.
Furthermore there was also somebody from Vinkovci, a city
which is now like Osijek in the firing line and from which a
big part is destroyed. Both are in the sector East from
UNPROFOR and we start to believe that one of these days maybe
UNPROFOR take over the command and secure this area from
fighting. And than people will be send back to their destroyed
place, maybe Croats and Serbs are possible to return. And
than... the will find no hospital, no schools, no townhall, no
houses, no a lot of things, and there is no insurance company
in the world paying for any damage here, this is outside every
polis you can make (look it up if you have one, war damages
are always excluded). Most people lost their works, since
their work is also destroyed, a part of the pollution is still
missing and will stay away, those who died or are fighting on
the front.
In those situation people will come back in their destroyed
villages and start to build up what is left over from their
houses. There will be no schools, no meeting centra for the
youth, so they will fool around in an area which is full of
all kind of left over ammunition and land mines. Just try to
imagine the picture you are back your house is gone and you
start to put plastic on the roof with somebody and you see
your child playing in the garden and a moment later..... The
picture is clear I hope and had nothing to do whose house, who
child we are talking about and whose bloody fault it was that
that mine was laying there.
But people are returning long before the area is for one
hundred procent safe, they are already returning to Osijek,
since the problems with the BiH refugees is given a higher
priority. And UNPROFOR is taking control in the eastern zone.
That are the problems they are facing at home, maybe most
people can round up some how money to make their place livable
again and with some improvisation they will managed.
But as long as this country is under war and even long after
that the war machinery will consume a lot of money, also to
support all the wounded soldiers. There would be such enough
money left to rebuild the all the necessary facilities, even
with western help. All other things like communities centra,
youth clubs, cultural centra are at the bottom of the list.
There is no money for that for a long time, that are problems
which every small community have to solve for themselfs. I was
thinking that it must be possible that cities around the globe
adopt now villages and cities in the war zone and if they are
clever they adopt three or more places for all different
nationality to avoid fights about who is right and who is
wrong.
In Mainz f.e. which is sister town from Zagreb the Greens ask
for 10.000 Dm for the peace movement for of Zagreb, our center
and the city accepted (only the burocraty is a little slow).
And now we have ask them if they can't organize a help from
f.e. the boyscouts these summer in the refugeescamps.
Lots of people around the world we have notice like to do
something constructive, this can be constructive, push your
local town council to adopt village in the warzones. They can
give a curtain amount of money to be spend to build up
community life again in those villages, but you could also
mobilize the local population around this topic and organize
support from local producers, do-it-yourself-shops and
buildingcompanies for gift in natural, get local volunteer
teams together from building and construction specialists etc.
It is smaller then those huge unknown operation via huge
support action, people get more close related. And you can do
information work around it more easier, there is a short of
emotional link.
I am willing to lay the contacts as far as I can go from
Zagreb, but I have already nearly connections with
towncouncils all around eastern Slavonia, but it is not much
work to expand it. And when Joel comes he maybe can help me
with it. And maybe some students in any specialist job can
spare some time.
It looks like that slowly we make a web all over the country
and I have the feeling I am in the middle of it. Lots of
information about were could be done what is coming to me. If
there are people out there who see something in this plan
and/or see a possibility to build up similar lines in parts of
former Yugoslavia which I can't cover get please in contact
with me and we can start to plan.
This brings me to my next topic. This war is like a domino
game, one falls all fall. The biggest mistake from UNPROFOR
was that they did got their message too late. This
peacekeeping force should now do what they should do in the
first place and as the hell get to those place where there
isn't any fighting yet and secure them, demilitarize all those
place who aren't in war yet. You stop a forest fire by burning
controlled wood away what lays in the fireline, now these
areas which are not yet under war are in the fire line, we
should disarm every possible source what can gets fire before
it gets there. We stop the falling domino.
Slovenia should no be putted under UNPROFOR protection the
whole country should be demilitarized and the whole economy
should work to build up the country and not a new bloody war
machine called army. Macedonia should be dismantled, JNA
should leave, territorial defense demilitarized, strong
controls on weapons at the borders and under UNPROFOR, and so
on and so on.
That 150 from 200 Nato officials in Canada have appealed that
NATO should move in nerves the hell out of me. What will that
means are they going to bulldozer the whole front line away,
are they going to do what they forgot to do in the Gulf War
and do they want to show that they are going to move all the
way now (IRONIC, please don't misunderstand me). What those
that means. Does that means that in a few weeks from now I can
tell you from nice leopard tanks on the main square and me
selling badges "NATO GO HOME" around the corner or don't we
even see the guys and are they going to do the job from 6000
feet.
How can we protect these villages from totally falling apart,
and my idea was by making them know, give them an identity,
give that unknown land frontline a name, give people a spot on
the map where they can feel some special relationship with.
Something what makes them more closer with what is going on
here than what they see on the news.
From one of the traveling free lance journalist, their are a
lot here and most of them pass by for a sleeping place at ARK
and most of them have just barely enough money to pay their
own food, so you feel somehow close to them and help them out,
we heard that the bridge at Slavonski Brod still is intact and
he was at the other side of the Sava in Derventa. Ofcourse
wild stories and a limping leg, was hit by a fragmation bomb
in Slavonski Brod and can write a hell of story about the days
in the hospital. They are all in a hurry, the pass-by, there
are just from the front or on their way to it. I hear enough
from them and I am not going to risk my life. Both transports
(small ones to try) we sended to Sarajevo over Beograd and
over Split didn't arrived at Ibrahim in Sarajevo.
If you have seen on your local news what happened with the Red
Cross convoy know what the risk are. If somebody along the
road has a bad day, you are out, don't go and play cowboy on
your own, since we even don't know what happens with those
people who left the both cities. We will see the coming days
what will happen with the convoy from the UN which left Zagreb
today. I think more and more that the only way to Sarajevo
which may bring people there if they like to help is stick on
one of the official convoys (and they seems to start moving,
if you like to hop on one you can come to Zagreb or go to
Beograd and wait a few days they are coming in and keep on
rolling guys, if the border patrols in the north had a little
less to do with their weapon and tax controls it would be
moving that truck, put the hammers down, I bad it must be
fantastic getting into Sarajevo and they other towns that way
in convoy full of hope), don't try it on your own, your change
to get there is as living in Zagreb for half a year without at
least having had one accident in the traffic.
If any small town or group likes to get through to Sarajevo do
it please the official way, for the time being at least and
with little bit of luck it is getting in by train and hop on
the next truck. We can't guarantee that you get a hick, since
their are rules and some are strict at the book. And when it
is going to happen Zagreb lays on the transport routes from
western Europe. Maybe the corridors will be established from
wish the people in Sarajevo dream, what goes down must come up
you know, they can bring the children and wounded ones out and
more people who like to leave.
It is such a strange feeling bring food to a city under war
and going back and leaving them alone, will the food buy them
the time to survive the war. Why can't we send aid over the
telephone line it would go so much faster, it would make life
so easy.
If you are around for the summer in Europe, drop by for a
couple of days, it is fun, it is never doll, you never know
what is more exciting to look at the news (what I don't
understand in Croatia) or the warfilm on the otherside (which
I also can't understand, but because of other reason) and when
I see the music programs it is like watching a commercial for
Rambo 19 (how they killed all the ? (depends what sells
better, but if you make to film vague enough you just switch
sides, you only change the subtitles), or maybe some old
Italian bill he still has to pay and start his private war).
What I just want to say :
With Love and Peace from Zagreb,
Wam:-)
and see you around.
p.s. I don't know if the rest of the world already knows that
Croatia and BiH have formed a confederation now, which makes
it "legal" that Croatian army is fighting in BiH.
pnmi...@igc.org
From: <pnmideast>
Subject: Zagreb Diary
/* Written 11:53 am May 22, 1992 by gn:wamkat in cdp:yugo.antiwar */
/* ---------- "Zagreb Diary" ---------- */
Subject: Zagreb Diary
Zagreb Diary
21/22-05-1992
Dear Friends,
So I can't keep my Diary up always, there is often a lot of
smaller things which have to be done, the coming days I will
be in Osijek f.i. and I ofcourse will try to keep you informed
from there, technically it is possible, but I simply don't
know if I will find the time. Anyway back to day of today.
It is fantastic how this diary is traveling over the globe,
messages come in from all over the place and those who don't
know how to react, technically, just a (private) reply on this
conference topic listing will be give a high changes that it
will come to Zagreb one day.
To put some mistakes right again, the confederation BiH-
Croatia is not yet official, it has only been discused on a
meeting of HDZ and SDA from BiH in Split and the prososal for
an at least military conferedaration came out of that meeting,
but is in no way yet been discussed on high political level in
Croatia. Sometimes news travels faster then the reality and as
said I have to rely on translations often and in this case I
was too fast. Marko from Ljubljana noted that we really have
to take care about verifying information before putting it on
the net. I standpoint I agree and disagree with at the same
time. Rumors are part of the warmachine and make their own
reality, a reality in which people have to look for their own
true. If they believe the warmachine promotion or not.
If I would have put actual translations of the papers in
Zagreb on the net I would have the same problem, most of those
stories are interpretations and not 100% verified as well. But
what Marko say is true, his example that he got a messages
from Sarajevo telling that 700 Muslims were killed in a part
of the town, he phoned back to the same policestation, got
another agent on the line and that one told him that the other
one was cracking down and nothing has happened. Both were
Muslim by the way. But I hope that we can put of a link with
Ljubljana to have the work more divided, a daily updated of
more virified information wouldn't be bad. On this moment it
is hard to find out what the true is, for us, but even harder
for the outside world.
The 21st started with hard-core war news video for breakfast,
Before I had something in my stumic I already was watching the
horror pictures of victims of this crazy war. Followed by a
very depressing discussion about how we ever can stop the hate
among each other in the cities and villages which are
destroyed. If you see what people can do to each other, you
can't call it animal alike (animal do hurt each other this way
and surely not kill their own species), it is nearly
impossible to think that they ever will be able to live side
by side again.
After that I started to type in the stories we have got from
Ibrahim from Sarajevo by fax over the night. On a curtain
moment there was a story about a Chetnik Unit called Valjevo
Unit, a unit which has been active around Osijek and Vukovar
as well. This unit was mentioned as being the co-killer of
app. 200 Muslims on the 19th of May in the village Vlasenica.
Nothing special you would think and indeed it is happening all
the time, not so brutal and so many as in this case, but the
messages about mass killings keep on rolling in.
This sticked in my mind since Sittard, my hometown has a
sistertown agreement with Valjevo, the last cultural exchanges
took place during the last winter, after the fall of Vukovar.
And Valjevo Unit seems to be famous in Serbia as strong and
hard fighters, who are often to be found in the frontline
operations. Most of the information about them is coming from
Serbian newspapers, in which they openly tell about their
"heroic" actions.
Valjevo is also known in some circles for their high amount of
deserters, to balance the story a little bit. But a fact is
that the towncouncil from Valjevo openly have supported their
Chetnik Unit and that I think that in my home town nobody
knows about this (now they do, I dispatch the information to
my home office). Therefore I have written an open letter to my
town council asking them to establish new sistercity links
with two cities in Croatia and BiH in order to show their
concern about the war in this country and the will to actively
do something in order to, maybe not stop the war, but help to
rebuild these countries afterwards.
I don't want my hometown condemning the people from Valjevo,
since first of all, I think not all people of Valjevo support
this Chetnik unit, but even those who do are also mislead by
an impressive war promotion machinery, thirdly I don't know if
what I hear is the true. Okay in this case the first stories
about this units came from Serbian papers, but nevertheless
there are so many stories which have been published which are
not 100% true.
When I told it that Sittard has this link with Valjevo and
that our exchange went on even during the war period in
Croatia people looked at me here for a while with a face if I
was totally stupid. How could I live in a town which has
friendly connections with the slaughters of Vukovar (Zagreb's
sister city in Serbia is Beograd by the way), since that what
this unit is named upon from here. I tried to explain that
this part of the war was never been told in my home town and
that I could imagine that hundreds of this cities links
exists. Our town wanted to have a sisterlink with an east
European city some years ago, but east Europe was them to
east, so they choice Yugoslavia and some famous artists in
This sticked in my mind since Sittard, my hometown has a
sistertown agreement with Valjevo, the last cultural exchanges
took place during the last winter, after the fall of Vukovar.
And Valjevo Unit seems to be famous in Serbia as strong and
hard fighters, who are often to be found in the frontline
operations. Most of the information about them is coming from
Serbian newspapers, in which they openly tell about their
"heroic" actions.
Valjevo is also known in some circles for their high amount of
deserters, to balance the story a little bit. But a fact is
that the towncouncil from Valjevo openly have supported their
Chetnik Unit and that I think that in my home town nobody
knows about this (now they do, I dispatch the information to
my home office). Therefore I have written an open letter to my
town council asking them to establish new sistercity links
with two cities in Croatia and BiH in order to show their
concern about the war in this country and the will to actively
do something in order to, maybe not stop the war, but help to
rebuild these countries afterwards.
I don't want my hometown condemning the people from Valjevo,
since first of all, I think not all people of Valjevo support
this Chetnik unit, but even those who do are also mislead by
an impressive war promotion machinery, thirdly I don't know if
what I hear is the true. Okay in this case the first stories
about this units came from Serbian papers, but nevertheless
there are so many stories which have been published which are
not 100% true.
When I told it that Sittard has this link with Valjevo and
that our exchange went on even during the war period in
Croatia people looked at me here for a while with a face if I
was totally stupid. How could I live in a town which has
friendly connections with the slaughters of Vukovar (Zagreb's
sister city in Serbia is Beograd by the way), since that what
this unit is named upon from here. I tried to explain that
this part of the war was never been told in my home town and
that I could imagine that hundreds of this cities links
exists. Our town wanted to have a sisterlink with an east
European city some years ago, but east Europe was them to
east, so they choice Yugoslavia and some famous artists in
Sittard always went on holidays to Valjevo and so the link was
made. I am only a citizens of Sittard and when I would have
known what I know now I would have reacted a lot earlier.
I hope that my towncouncil follows my advice, I am sure
however that they won't, they will cut the contact lines with
Valjevo and try to forget that they had ever contact, since
the links with a Croatian and BiH will costs them energy and
money. Next year my hometown exists 700 years and that has to
be a big party, politics and war should not been discussed.
But they could give half of that money to Vinkovci and Mostar
f.i. to help to rebuild the community centers in those
destroyed places. They could invite citizens from all three
villages to Sittard and try to make a city link between them
over the fronts and hatress, they could indeed play an active
role. But I know that they won't, they just not see this
opportunity. This war is my reality and the reality of the
people in this country, outside it is just another war and
whenever the UN don't know what to do why should local
communities than try.
About UNPROFOR, yesterday there was this nice story in the
newspaper that UNPROFOR secured the peace in at least one spot
of Croatia, namely in a discotheek in Zagreb, nearly every
evening this place is full of UNPROFOR soldiers and they have
the peace there fully under control, only a few fights with
Croatian boys took place, but they are now going to another
discotheek. That's what the paper write about them here.
That the whole planning from the UNPROFOR operation in former
Yugoslavia was a big mistake is I think almost everywhere in
the world understandable by now. To even assume that UNPROFOR
cooperate and helps JNA, what somebody suggested on this net
is a little too far out I think. Saying that especially the
Russian UNPROFOR soldiers have deals with Chetnik forces and
JNA is I think out of the question, those Russian are having a
great time here, they make more money in a day than back home
in month, but nevertheless I can not imagine that they openly
would cooperate with any of the both sides. If somebody has
proof for that it should come out in the open, cause that
would make a big scandal, UNPROFOR has to stay neutral under
all conditions.
Another story I refuse to believe is the story that
humanitarian aid (medicine) is been sold in hospitals and
drugstores. This story came up when I found out that products
from f.i. Germany were cheaper in the shop (up to 50%) then
Croatian products (prices of luxury products went up with 50%
over the weekend), somebody said for a joke that it was maybe
out of the humanitarian aid. I can't imagine that this is been
done on a great scale, and especially I can't imagine that
humanitarian organization make the same mistake twice. By the
aid to former USSR a lot of the material disappear and were
sold on the black market, we heard that the Dutch Butter for
citizens of Moskva ended up in the barracks of Red Army in the
Baltic States. So the western organizations started to take
care themselves about the distribution, why should they not do
that here. But I will try to find more about this. I am not
totally surprise if this happens on a lower level in the
hospitals, if you see the income of some people, it is trying
to survive all the way down.
Next week there will be a special UNPROFOR weekly coming out,
made by Vjesnik, one of the biggest state newspapers, so I
will after all get my English news.
Just a tomorrow I will go to the real warzones again, I must
honestly say that I am not happy about it, for days I follow
the news about Osijek and the bombings which go on there. I
haven't that build in mechanism yet which tells you where a
bomb is going to hit, but as always I rely on my luck.
With Love and Peace from Zagreb,
Wam:-)
Sorry for the double part, but there was again a line break
pnmi...@igc.org
From: <pnmideast>
Subject: Zagreb Diary
/* Written 12:08 am May 25, 1992 by gn:wamkat in cdp:yugo.antiwar */
/* ---------- "Zagreb Diary" ---------- */
Subject: Zagreb Diary
Zagreb (Osijek) Diary
23/24 May 1992
So it is somewhere in the middle of the night and I am sitting
in a room from which all the windows are sealed with black
plastic and everything breakable in the house is taped with
sticky tape. In front of the television the owner have put the
pillows of his bed, but for the rest it looks normal. For the
first time since I am here I sleep really in a warzone, but
nevertheless the heavy shelling over the last days, which had a
highpoint last night, things are peaceful around here.
We had the change to look a little better around today in this
city and it is strange to be here. The last time that I was here
and was able to look around was at least 5 years ago. The war
has changed the city a lot. There is not one
house in the whole city from which nothing is broken. At least
all the windows or let's say 90% of them is broken and repaired
for the time being with some plastic sheets. You see granade and
bullet holes practically all over the place and most official
_zP]iLk{building have huge wood construction build around it to protect
the building from direct hits.
But is nice warm wetter and since there is no airraid alarms
children are playing outside and we had some nice walks through the
park from the hospital. It is in many way schoking to visit hospitals
here in former Yugoslavia, first of all since all of them are
overcrowded and often full of granade holes. This one here in Osijek
is been heavily damaged, with huge holes (app. 1 meter and more
diameter) even just centimeters away away from the Red Cross symbol.
It is hard to see Osijek back after all those years, it just to be one
of the nicest cities of former Yugoslavia and was more or less known
to have good houses and good roads. Now most of the houses have no
windows, the streets are full of hole (from the granades), the
picture is sandbags and red stones protected the basements for further
damages. Most arwful is the hospital which looks a bit like a swizs
cheese, the army barracks just on the other side of the street turned
to place into a bullet catcher for shooting practice, looks like.
More horrible are the stories about what happened during the period of
4 days that the hospital were in the fireline of the barracks of the
upperside. Most of the wings got direct hits and some of the heavier
ones went straight through the buildings. They moved all patients and
operations to basements, were most still are, it is not so improvised
as in those first days, but still it is no condition to work. After
that days in September last year the hospital wasn't spared by the
grenades, over and over again the place was hit. Last huge hit was
some days ago when a grenade nearly destroyed the whole nucleair
medical section.
At the moment that I am writing this I can hear the artillery outside,
app. 400 meters away. In this case it is small canons from Croatian
army and lucky us JNA is not repeating the shooting. Otherwise I
wasn't sitting here at the 5th floor, but I would have been somewhere
down in the basement of this building.
After this first lines I went to bed knowing that any moment this
stupid alarms can go off, but again lucky me, not an alarm but the sun
waked me up when it slowly started to raise in the East (above
Serbia). I slept like a rock, another trick which I have learned over
the years (especially thanks our traveling vegatarian kitchen (from
the collective I was part off) and our jobs at (punk) concerts), sleep
strong and short, never knowing what is going to happen. More than
bXbC[w3vsome machinegun fighting I didn't hear, during the night and what
waked me up was a whole salvo of it. This dry expolding sounds echoing
between the high houses.
It is unbelievable but just a few hours later we are sitting with at
least 100 people in a room of the Economic University from Osijek, the
whole press of Osijek (newspaper and television) is following our
little expedition and the room is filled with all kind of officials
and other people who are interested in nonviolence conflict
resolution. Just before the meeting started I went up with Luac to his
room, he is professor on this university (somebody who is nearly
fanatic interested in the possibilities of electronic mail), through
the roof of his room a mortar came down and left the room in an absolute
unworkable mass, but that is not the only thing which is destroed in
this building.
Adam (our oldest expedition member, I geuss him around 70) is now
introducting himself. He has dedicated his life to helping groups with
solving their problems another way. Besides the smaller cases in the
UK, he work as mediator in civil wars in Africa and in war situations
like on Sri Lanka. Adam tries to explain mediation work and that it
some times can take a long time, not particual a nice story to tell in
a town which is under artillery fire for about 9 months.
(The television crew just left, but in the back of the room people are
still standing since they runned out of chairs)
Judith, she is the only women in the team, a mother which has
now old enough childs, so that she can go out in the world. She will
do workshops on trauma and other emotional aspects.
Eric, the german american, which always introduce himself as
world citizens, he is the guy which started with the placing of modems
in the different capitals. His work in Germany on noviolence defense
of countries, now he will do a workshop on nonviolence responces on
personal violence.
Last but not least, Nick, he has just like Adam war experiences, but
he especially is working with medical persons, doctors and so, f.i. he
has been busy to bring doctors from Serbia and Croatia together.
Poor Aida, who has to translate this all and get confronted with all
kind of specialist words, but she manage with some help of some
friends.
Adam is quiet talking about the craul wars he has been to and how he
mediated between fighting groups all over the world, people in our
4S{group get really exited by the idea to go with Adam to the so-called
occupied areas and discuss the future of those areas together with
the Serbian people who are now living (stil) there. It is like so many
things here, let's do it, when possible this afternoon. They thing
that I just send a messages in the net, Adam phones some friends at
the UN and we drive of passed the lines.
It is a bit like Luac's hope that E-mail could be the soultion for the
furture of teaching and economical mail in Croatia. There is hardly no
book any more at the university, but they have learn the importance of
telephones and faxes (they came through and kept on working even in
the hardest situations). Luac think, and he is right in many way that
if we build up a good relyable email net in Croatia (and the rest of
former Yugoslavia) a lot of the materials which are now printed and
often outdated could be putted on a host computer and we give all
students a laptop and let's party.
24 Hours in Osijek and still no alarm, maybe UNPROFOR realy are doing
there job well and are able to secure the relative peace, or we have
been just damned lucky and with us the civilians of Osijek. In a town
were since the beginning of September last year per day there is an
average of 2 deads by waractivities, from which the half is civilians,
such a day is a blessing and haven't take place since March.
Love and Peace from Osijek
Wam:-)
p.s. One little detail I would like to inform how this message was
send to day, I type it on a laptop during the workshops and then
connected my modem to two wires which were hanging somewhere free out
of a huge hole in the wall, where some 128 mm granade went through,
above my head a huge view on the bleu sky (that was obvious a bigger
mortar, which went through there). This was an office of a proffessor
of the economic faculty in Osijek, and now it ......
pnmi...@igc.org
From: <pnmideast>
Subject: Zagreb Diary
/* Written 2:10 am May 27, 1992 by gn:wamkat in cdp:yugo.antiwar */
/* ---------- "Zagreb Diary" ---------- */
Subject: Zagreb Diary
Zagreb Diary
26/27-05-1992
Dear Friends,
Just back from Osijek, were luckly enough no real alarm was
given in the last 3 days, I found a fax from Ibrahim for
Sarajevo. I don't know what you have been seeing and thinking
of the last 3 days, but my ears where first of all listing to
airraid alarm. I thought a lot about Sarajevo, walking along
the river and looking at the big Church near the main square,
the thousands of houses which were bombed and repaired and the
looking at the big hole near the red cross flag on the
hospital. In Sarajevo at this moment people are dying and I am
not able what the feeling is to life under the threat of
snippers and sudden bombing.
I was lucky nothing happened, but for people in Sarajevo the
threat goes on, every day can be the last, in Osijek we were
lucky, thanks to the corridor which is the lifeline of the
city (food enough in Osijek). Slowly the threat is falling of
my back, I was happy to be back in peaceful Zagreb, back ready
to go back as soon as I have got good news for my friends in
Osijek. I hope to go back soon, praying that it is all over
now there. Hoping and asking that I can go to Sarajevo as
well. Not that I like to see the city, but I just have to see
the people, I want to move in as soon as possible to see what
can be done.
You will stop it out there I am sure, this can't go on many
longer. I don't know who is doing it, and I don't want to
know. I only know it has to be over and soon. Aida talk with
Nada in Sarajevo over the phone to check the message from
Ibrahim, just to be sure, before we get accused of half
information or propaganda. Or Ibrahim and Nada are part of an
well organized roll game, with very realistic pictures and
film trucks or god may knows what. And I know that Ibrahim and
Nada don't see each other often, because despite the war they
have their political difference (nothing bad about that, I
both respect them a lot). So the war is really on.
I don't want to know how many church Serbs has destroyed and
how many the Croats. Please believe it interest me not one
thing. But maybe by publishing all those list people starts to
understand the total madness and if that can help to stop a
war that please it be so. Building may be important, but
living human beings a lot more. I talk with people on the
phone, from which I know that they can be gone tomorrow. At
her last phonecall with Eric just before we left for Osijek
Nada told him that she was pinpointed for 30 minutes by
snippers, she could not move an inch. I even can get close to
imagine what that means.
Do you know what it is to look with an half eye where the
nearest shelter is, because you never know it can happen any
minute and the bombs are falling before the alarm goes of,
they first want to be sure that there is really falling enough
to let the people go in the shelter. Because there may not
have been an alarm during my stay in Osijek, bombs were still
falling, not so much a few a day, but you could hear them,
maybe somebody push a wrong button.
A story which is in my mind is the one from a police cop ate
one of the meetings. he told about all those new police cops
which were mobilized 9 months ago. They got a gun and learn to
kill people, after being in duty for that time they know get
regular police training. When they come back they are totally
A story which is in my mind is the one from a police cop ate
one of the meetings. he told about all those new police cops
which were mobilized 9 months ago. They got a gun and learn to
kill people, after being in duty for that time they know get
regular police training. When they come back they are totally
confuses, at the police school they told him NOT to shoot
people, what to believe. And that is happening all over the
place, in a few days people get teached how to kill and
afterwards people come and tell them it is wrong to kill
people.
We met yesterday the major of Osijek, nothing special, since
nearly all foreigners will come and see him, that is a lot
more than can be said from most of the officials from Zagreb.
I sat on the chair were a week ago (or some day longer)
Goulding sat and that is in many ways strange a feeling. He
made clear that he is willing to help us in all ways to
realize our Osijek project and made clear that he likes that
the problems is locally solved, dealing with all the local
problems and customs and not centralistic from Zagreb.
Especially the return of the refugees should go with the
utmost planning and preparation before there is another
timebomb ticking and waiting the explode (or one of the over
10.000.000 landmines in that region) Mediation and training in
creative ways to deal with conflicts is an utmost important
thing and should not be forgotten.
We are full of plans and like to ask you a lot out there, but
those who read this often, please send me all what you can
find on your networks, from which you think that it is maybe
interesting to know for professors on the Law and on the
Economic university in Osijek and was has to to with a
hololistic view how to solve the problems they will fase in
these countries, that means information about ecology, perma
culture, environmental laws, possibility to let student study
with use of E-mail (with E-mail professors abroad), send not
the information, but tips what kind of information it is, and
where and how we can get it. The brothers Lauc will be
thankful (One is professor on the Economic faculty and the
other Decan from the law faculty)
One other positive thing today stood in the newspapers that
JNA will go from Vis and Vesna J. and Malina just arrived
their at saturday, so I am not so afraid that something will
happen, they cam on the same boot as two (drunken, they write
in their fax) EC-monitors.
Now I am going to sleep since I am feeling that it is going to
be a long day tomorrow.
With Love and Peace from Zagreb,
Wam:-)
p.s. for Joe, I think I have been looking at the wrong church
or have been reporting about the wrong church in my reply from
Osijek. The thing what confused me was the two towers, I was
looking for a church, which had obvious two towers. Not the
the small tower is gone, don't worry it is still there, but it
is a little bit hidding behind the other. I can tell you that
indeed most of the windows are gone and that on the right side
(if you stand with your face to church and your back to the
major square) there have been at least 4 direct hits, the last
ones basically destroyed some of the scupltures on top of the
pillars. The last big hits were about 2 weeks ago. Furthermore
some have scrammed the big tower and in the roof there are
some smaller holes. But it is remarkable how quick the area is
cleaned up, there is no single piece of stone on the street
and living houses get mostly immediately repaired if the
damage is not to big. Osijek is alive, on Monday the town was
full.
For those, datanet freaks, who like to travel in former
Yugoslavia, with the modem, the following tips:
- Don't believe in super small high speed modems with error
control and more extras, first it cost you a hell of a time to
get them working at all on this lines, secondly the lines are
often for the half knock out and that means overworked. Things
like error control hardly won't work, the only thing is that
you comm programme hangs after half a minute. Datacompression
means that the half never arrives, due to sudden electric
shocks which go over the line and which destroy the newest
types of chips (build a filter of 48 ohm/68 , between you line
plug and your modem that will insurance burning of your chips,
and get them offline in the night when most lines are quiet
and the shock more frequent), it cost me two modems to find
out. By glad as at least part of the text comes true, and you
can recognize between the noise what is returning back (not
knowing if that is included in the text or just noise on the
return line), things are especially bad in the warzones, your
modem is maybe high-tech, the lines are surely not made for
it, how many times I have been listing to nice Croatian
phonecalls out of my modem is fantastic (another technical
tip, use always dial pluse (ATDP), since the change that you
meet a digital system is rather small, at start your setup
string with ATX1, since otherwise no modem will do anything).
pnmi...@igc.org
From: <pnmideast>
Subject: Zagreb Diary
/* Written 10:28 am May 28, 1992 by gn:wamkat in cdp:yugo.antiwar */
/* ---------- "Zagreb Diary" ---------- */
Subject: Zagreb Diary
Zagreb Diary
27-05-1992
Dear Friends,
I don't know how many of you have seen this day the news on
television of Sarajevo, but I have seen it today about 7
times. After 3 days of bread around 200 people were waiting
outside a bakery when 3 grenades came down and snippers
started to shoot in the crowd. The amount of wounded and dead
is unknown, but the picture speaks for themselves. Never
before I saw so many bloodshed on television. The street red
of blood and the bodies laying all over the place. The whole
day I have been in a short of trance. How can this be stopped
without killing more people. Day after day I am loosing hope
that it will be possible to solve this problem without more
violence.
Some people asked me if I wasn't happy that the Americans and
other allied forces moved into western Europe in the second
world war, ofcourse I glad they did it, otherwise I probably
never ever have been born. And maybe conflicts like this can
only be solved by armed interventions. But I still have the
hope that it is not necessary that the world ones again goes
in with their heavy machinery. The orgasm of violence is
already going on, why go on with it?
Reason for asking me was the fact that I try to stay neutral
as I can be, which is hard after seeing those picture from
Sarajevo over and over again. How in the world can that be
happening?
Looking at the evening news it became clear to me that the
whole world has seen this pictures, but I don't know if you
also have seen the reactions of the Serbian spokesman. He said
it were not JNA or Serbian extremists how did this attack, but
it were the defenders of Sarajevo who shot their own people,
to be enable to blame this massacre on the Serbs. Ofcourse
that is possible, also the Croatian government more or less
sacrificed Vukovar last year to get international attention,
but this is sounds at of space. The whole world already knows
about what is going on in Sarajevo, so why increasing the
tension.
It reminds me on what Dejan from Beograd wrote some days ago
as reaction on the list about the destroyed churches and
mosques I putted on the net. The major reaction was that is
was propaganda and that he knew that the orthodox churches in
Zagreb were bombed by the Croats. My reaction was that in the
nearly 7 weeks that I have been in Zagreb, I pass about all
the orthodox churches and buildings every day and that they
are still intact. And that I was willing to visit with him BiH
to see if it was true or not. Since I also like to know what
really happens. I don't know if Dejan has recieved my message,
since Joel who ports my message to the orthodox mailing list
on UUCP is expelled from that list for his "anti-serbian"
propaganda.
More and more this thing is hurting me, how is it possible
that facts can be explained in two total different ways. For
Dejan it seems to be a fact that the churches in Zagreb has
been destroyed, for me it is a fact that they aren't.
We have talk about intervention by the world community, I
think that the first thing which has to be done is jamming all
communication of the different armies in BiH. It must be able
to disorganise the different fighting forces, just by simply
jamming their radio contacts. Second there should be a lot
more effort put in the the idea of EPPO (European Peace Press
Organisation), an idea what came up already last year in
Ljubljana. An undepended news agency, which broadcast all over
former Yugoslavia and gives the facts, rather then the
propaganda.
It is so hard to believe that facts can be turned around 180%
and that intellectuals believe in those propaganda. Why does
Dejan not want to listen if I can tell him honestly that
nothing happens with the churches in Zagreb. Why does he
believe his governmental propaganda.
What is the goal of the Serbian government, they must be aware
that part of their propaganda is not true and that denying the
facts isolated them more and more from the rest of the world
community. If things go on like this their country gets under
attack by all the world and that can't be what they have in
mind. They can't think that they are able to survive, why not
just give up. Or is what they tell the true.
In what kind of game are we becoming puppets in. What is a
human life for this politicians.
In Zagreb it is really peaceful if you are coming back from
Osijek. If you come out of the railway station it is just like
coming into a "normal" city. The HOS HQ is still there, but
most of the soldiers are not any longer armed, or in uniform.
I think they agreed one or another dial with the police. Only
now and then you see armed soldiers going in or out. The black
and the great Croatia flag is hanging half pool however, maybe
one of their major fighters died.
Now I have to work on a poster for a concert we are going to
have at the 6 of June, to remember the International day of
children who deid in wars.
With Love and Peace from Zagreb,
Wam:-)
p.s. I have got some reactions on something I wrote last week,
namely the idea that UNPROFOR should go to the republics which
are not yet in war, some people reacted with a question if I
meant Slavonia, rather then Slovenia, but I really meant
Slovenia. Not that there is any threat at this moment, but
because of the fact that the army is being build up there at
the moment. I don't see the reason for that, rather would I
love to see that every part of former Yugoslavia get disarmed
and with UNPROFOR protection the Slovenian government has
maybe the change to dismantle their new army.
I also hope that some of you want to help me to search for
this information for the university of Osijek about a
holoistic approach of solving the problems in these countries.
How to build up an ecological economy, and especially interest
there is in Permaculture.
Nebojsa I Jaksic
>
>From: <pnmideast>
>Subject: Zagreb Diary
>
>/* Written 10:28 am May 28, 1992 by gn:wamkat in cdp:yugo.antiwar */
>/* ---------- "Zagreb Diary" ---------- */
>Subject: Zagreb Diary
>
>television of Sarajevo, but I have seen it today about 7
>times. After 3 days of bread around 200 people were waiting
>outside a bakery when 3 grenades came down and snippers
>started to shoot in the crowd. The amount of wounded and dead
>is unknown, but the picture speaks for themselves. Never
>before I saw so many bloodshed on television. The street red
>of blood and the bodies laying all over the place. The whole
>day I have been in a short of trance. How can this be stopped
>without killing more people. Day after day I am loosing hope
>that it will be possible to solve this problem without more
>violence.
>
Probably not. I do not see a force that can do that - outside
the fighting parties themselves - and they do not seem to
be willing.
>
>Looking at the evening news it became clear to me that the
>whole world has seen this pictures, but I don't know if you
>also have seen the reactions of the Serbian spokesman. He said
>it were not JNA or Serbian extremists how did this attack, but
>it were the defenders of Sarajevo who shot their own people,
>to be enable to blame this massacre on the Serbs. Ofcourse
>that is possible, also the Croatian government more or less
>sacrificed Vukovar last year to get international attention,
>but this is sounds at of space. The whole world already knows
>about what is going on in Sarajevo, so why increasing the
>tension.
The only thing you can be sure of in a war is what YOU see. If
you see death - that is all you can be sure of. Granades on
Sarajevo - who did it? Serbs are innocent until proven guilty
(cought in the act) - usually that is how the law works. People
on the street - Muslims, Orthodox - who are they? It does not
say on their foreheads - the only thing certain is - the blood.
Politicians can do anything they want from this. I remmember,
that is how the war started (The first victim - solder
Saso Gesovski - Macedonian). When he was killed Macedonians
did not raise their voice against the killers - they shouted
against the Federal Army - that is how the news was used. So,
the force that could stop all this bloodshed was discredited.
(I bet many others see those events in a totally different
light).
>We have talk about intervention by the world community, I
>think that the first thing which has to be done is jamming all
>communication of the different armies in BiH. It must be able
>to disorganise the different fighting forces, just by simply
>jamming their radio contacts. Second there should be a lot
>more effort put in the the idea of EPPO (European Peace Press
>Organisation), an idea what came up already last year in
>Ljubljana. An undepended news agency, which broadcast all over
>former Yugoslavia and gives the facts, rather then the
>propaganda.
If it was that simple - somebody would of done it by now. The
idea of EPPO is good - but Serbs would not beleive their news
(why should they - a thousand times repeated lie does not make
it true).My point is that they (Serbs) have to trust the source
in order to believe the information.
>
>It is so hard to believe that facts can be turned around 180%
>and that intellectuals believe in those propaganda. Why does
>Dejan not want to listen if I can tell him honestly that
>nothing happens with the churches in Zagreb. Why does he
>believe his governmental propaganda.
>
>What is the goal of the Serbian government, they must be aware
>that part of their propaganda is not true and that denying the
>facts isolated them more and more from the rest of the world
>community. If things go on like this their country gets under
>attack by all the world and that can't be what they have in
>mind. They can't think that they are able to survive, why not
>just give up. Or is what they tell the true.
Give up - THAT IS NOT AN OPTION - 500 years under Turks and
they did not give up - they will not give up now - it is
pride, stubberness. Serbs believe what they are doing is right.
That is where their strenght comes from - and politicians
know it - but then they (politicians) may love their country, they
may even come out to be the good guys when everything settles
down. ( I hope Milosevic goes down though after the war - to give
a chance to opossition).
>
>In what kind of game are we becoming puppets in. What is a
>human life for this politicians.
>
This might be only a rhetorical question - but it is a tough
one - have no idea!
>
>With Love and Peace from Zagreb,
>
>Wam:-)
>
I appologize for deleting some of your message - hope that I did
not misinterpret the quotations from your message.
I want PEACE too.
Neb
BLAZIC Joseph R
>sacrificed Vukovar last year to get international attention,
>but this is sounds at of space.
I don't think this is fair to say, despite any rumours in Zagreb.
It was impossible for Croatia to defend Vukovar indefinitely with the arms
embargo. The city was under seige, not even medical supplies were allowed
into the devastated hospital.
>Wam:-)
>
Joe Blazic
pnmi...@igc.org
From: <pnmideast>
Subject: Zagreb Diary
/* Written 10:04 am May 29, 1992 by gn:wamkat in cdp:yugo.antiwar */
/* ---------- "Zagreb Diary" ---------- */
Cc: gtn
Subject: Zagreb Diary
Zagreb Diary
28-05-1992
Dear Friends,
Since I hadn't the time the change my last money the last weeks
I have lived from only a few hundred dinars and they are now
nearly finished. I am a bit afraid of the next month, because
than the telephone bill from this month will come and I still
don't know how to pay it, ARK is nearly broke and so am I. I
wonder by the way how many people has tried and has managed to
live from only 30 Dm (20 Dollar) a week , you will see it is
hard and again the prices went up in the weekend.
The morning started with the news that gunfire and explosions
were heard on Vis and Vesna J. and Milena are there at this
moment I ofcourse was more afraid than normal. But no people
were wounded or killed. I hope that those two drunken EC
monitors, who arrived on the island together with them are now
sober again and taken their task a little more serious. But a
lot of their goodwill is already gone now, after their
surpriseful arrival.
This afternoon a demonstration took place on the main square
with about 750 people as protest against the bloodshed
yesterday in Sarajevo, people were sad, crying and calling for
international help and military interventions by the world.
Lot's of them were refugees from BiH and the planned peaceful
demonstration was more a manifestation of pain and a call up
for a fast reaction of the world.
Also Ibrahim and Nada are more and more strongly asking for
military intervention by the world. Their peace and powerful
faxes from the beginning are now after 48 days becoming more
and more desperate call ups for help and more and more strongly
asking for military actions against the attackers of the city.
During a radio interview of a Italian radio station this
morning with peace activists from Zagreb, Beograd and Sarajevo)
it was more and more clear that the people in Sarajevo no
longer accept nice talks and stories of peace activists and
peace keeping forces around the globe but want to have action.
Now the transport of humanitarian aid from Zagreb didn't came
through and there seems to be no other coming (after the last
robbing of the UNHCR transport by Serbian irregulars in the
beginning of this week), the situation is becoming next to
unbareable.
This evening we had also a pity heavy discussion in our weekly
ARK meeting about our joint standpoint on BiH and (military)
interventions in BiH and Serbia. Ofcourse the tension are high.
The television newspaper stories from yesterday are fresh in
our memory . Everybody was still a little bit in a shock by the
pictures. Most of the men are strongly in favour of economic
boycotts (at least for petrol and other necessary goods to
support a fighting army, food and other boycotts will in our
mind have more effect on the people in Serbia and give probably
more power to the more hardliners (Arkan en Sjesel seem to have
dead or at least seriously wounded during the last days, but
there still seem to be more the enough) and wipe out the last
opposition which is in Serbia.) Most people also think that it
will no longer be possible to visit or past Serbia after a
boycott will be starting (I hope that Vladimir will come back
next week, he is visiting Beograd at the moment and his return
is unsecured).
But the real discussion started when a point was mentioned
about military intervention to free Sarajevo. For a long while
three or four man were discussing how to do that and what
should be down, shooting only the JNA Migs out of the air,
strategic bombing of the artillery on the hill around Sarajevo
until some of the other (among them me) really felt a big
totally confused that a peace group should ask for military
intervention. In facto what is the difference to ask for it and
take up weapons yourself and go to BiH to fight (for you
outside Croatia that may sound a little difficult to do, here
it is common practice, if you like to fight as volunteer in
BiH, just go to the nearest military barracks and within 24
hours you will dress up in camouflage green on your way
somewhere in BiH to the front, nema problema).
I really had a bad feeling from all these talks at a moment, in
the warrooms from NATO or any other military combination they
probably have to same discussions (besides from the fact that
it will take weeks, or rather months before they are able to
move). The peacemovement should in my eyes not do the same, at
least not as this moment.
I am more in fever of calling hugely upon all the peace
movements around the world to organise a huge international
discussion, if not face-to-face then via e-mail and/or faxes,
about the way how to free Sarajevo and the rest of BiH from
these daily killings (today again around 7 people were killed
in Sarajevo and many more in the rest of BiH). If for any
reason all those (inter)national groups also come to the
conclusion that military intervention is the only way, then I
am maybe willing to change my mind (I doubt it, but you never
know). I am afraid that the international peace movement never
can understand our standpoint if we are just calling up for
military intervention, they are in the easy position of
reacting on our decision, but if we ask them to think along
with us and find other ways, maybe they start to understand how
difficult it is. At this moment however this strong talking is
macho talk for me, and the feeling that I am just a western and
by not choosing a hard line I am co-responsible for the
killings in Sarajevo is bullshit for me.
If people from the peace movement are reading this (and it
seems they do), please help me in this and start to send in
your ideas, starts to think along the line of alternative
conflict resolutions. I need you badly since I ran out of
ideas, all my proposals are sounding here so damned stupid and
naive, every argument, every discussion can be stopped so
easily by saying that it is luxury to discuss this point if
people in BiH are dying any moment. For what do we have all
those peace university and research centres around the globe,
consuming large amount of money and time if we are not able to
come up with creative ideas.
And I am agree with most of the people in ARK that the
westerners and other peace movements haven't used there energy
enough to help to stop the war. One or two big Peace caravans
is not enough to stop the war and visiting this place for 5
days saying peace brothers and go home is not very
constructive. Staying out of the discussion and only
condemning the violence is an easy position. Also sending via
us to Sarajevo nice ideas of organising a huge 100 lorries big
humanitarian aid convoy is just an air castle when even a child
knows that it wouldn't work if just a small local peace group
works on it.
Where are those millions who demonstrated in western Europe for
peace in the beginning of the 80'ties? Where are all those
people who stopped the Vietnam war in the states? Is this
conflict not also important or is it just a tribal war as
people in Africa describe this war in their newspapers? Forgive
me my reaction, don't feel offended I am just a little
inpatient, but as everybody else say here, people are dying in
BiH and every day is another day of violence and murder, it has
to stop.
Ofcourse I am not the only one in ARK who think this way, most
of the women and some men are agree with this opinion,
unfortunately a lot didn't say it during the meeting, so that I
felt a little bit left alone during the meeting. And often had
that feeling, am I just a stupid westerner, not aware of the
situation and not willing to make a strong standpoint.
The end of the discussion was that we couldn't agree upon a
general standpoint about this topic and that this things should
be discussed more with the other peace groups from former
Yugoslavia, during the joint meeting this weekend in Vienna. I
am afraid for that discussion, since all of the people here
gets day in and day out confronted by one of the most organised
war propaganda machines there is. A machinery which is well
organised and promotes the idea that nobody wants war, but that
the fighting are necessary to liberate our brothers and sisters
in blood.
And then the point that international military interventions
will first of all come too late for a lot of people (in the
coming weeks more and more people will starve in Sarajevo, not
from the bombs, but from hunger and bad medical treatment) and
secondly it will not lead to a long term solution. You create
probably another time bomb. which can explode any moment after
the the international troops disappear. If you realise that a
lot of the killing at this moment is already a revenge for what
happened 45 years ago, who can insure that in the same period
of time in the future things would start all over again. And
how many people will be killed then.
A fact is that the bombing of Dresden, Dusseldorf, Hanover,
Berlin, Hamburg, etc. in the second war world never ever made
the people turn against the NAZI, but improved even the
position of the NAZI. We have a similar situation here and I
can image that people will react similar.
There are however a few military a-like operations which I
really can agree at the moment. The first is parachuting food
and medicine into Sarajevo (like they did in the Netherlands in
the second World War and in Berlin during the airbridge), I am
willing to discuss types of (armed) protection for these
planes if they get attack by airplanes or land-air missiles,
but I basically think that it is the amount that counts, if
hundreds and hundreds of foreign planes are flying I don't
think a lot of them will be shoot at. A send action which is
possible a could be done fast is jamming the communication
between the fighting forces. That would already totally
irregulate the fighting forces, eventually maybe using the
airwaves for telling the true about what has happened.
The last idea could be worked out more, I think that it is
bloody good possible to produce a television signal strong
enough to be recieved all over former Yugoslavia. On that
signal programmes should be broadcasted made by the best mass
communication specialists from around the world, using all
their tricks to make clear that the reality is a lot different
from what how been said in media so far. Eventually you can
bring in famous people (rockstars and sportheroes), which are
adored by most of the fighting forces or invite people from the
different countries who make (under international protection)
live programmes out of other republics, to proof that reality
is different. Use your fantasy.
With Love and Peace from Zagreb,
Wam:-)
P.s. I have got a bike now, Robert borrowed me one, it is
fantastic to drive through the city, but the first evening
ofcourse I already was stooped by the police, at last I could
break that rule of biking in those streets which are only for
cars and there are so many of them. My strange passport and
question on my face did ofcourse wonders.
Our newest number from our fax bulletin is ready, it is a small
5 pages big fax letter with gives the latest information about
ARK and the Centre for Peace, Nonviolence and Human Rights and
is mainly for those without E-mail. If you like to recieved it
or like to ask as a hub in the fax network of distribution
please let us know.
I just had a phonecall from Vesna from Vis, they are now
monitoring the EC monitors and following them in their habit to
go from pub to pub and get drunk. The explosion on the Island
were also heard and seen by them, but they were not as big as
been describe on Croatian radio. For the rest everything is
quiet on Vis and they feel more like tourists on the island
than like active peace makers. The propaganda in the papers to
send Croatian army to the island continues however, as well as
the pressure on the peace movement that they are not good
Croats.
Last but not least a good thing, according to the Croatian
radio news the orthodox church of Serbia has said openly that
they not longer support the Serbian war politics. We don't know
if this is just propaganda and ask you strongly if somebody can
verify this information in Serbia, since this is maybe the
first step to open up talks between people who were now not
able to talk, since their churches supported the war
propaganda.
pnmi...@igc.org
From: <pnmideast>
Subject: Zagreb Diary
/* Written 4:37 pm May 31, 1992 by gn:wamkat in cdp:yugo.antiwar */
/* ---------- "Zagreb Diary" ---------- */
Subject: Zagreb Diary
Zagreb Diary
31-05-1992
Dear Friends,
Some people will have noticed it, I skip a whole day last
night, due to some mistake with some scripts I have been
writing in my programs. By the way if somebody likes to offer
us some software we are open for it. Since more things
happened today then I have described a second part of the
Diary today.
First of all I would like to find out if anybody in France is
reading this diary, we have a good contact in Paris, but she
has no fax or E-mail connection, so it is very hard to send
her information. If there is somebody which could help us
there, here name is Maja Dolibic and here telephone number in
Paris 47275604 (address 28, Avenue D'Eylau, 75116 Paris). If
somebody in Paris or France like to send us something pleace
send it before 12 June to her, since Nina from Ark will be
there to arrange some things and have some speeches.
Other places you can send information or other things to are
the UNSAID festival, Eschholzstr. 86, D-7800 Freiburg,
Germany (att: To ARK ZAGREB) were a lot of people from (5 or
even 6) will go to. This festival (5-13 June) is anyway
interesting to go to if you are in the neighbourhood. The
program stand as a house as we say in the Netherlands.
I just had Christine from Cologne on the telephone, Vesna J.
house were I stay is often more ARK office than our regular
office, lot's of people find the way here and phone me
immediately here. Anyway she just had some phonecalls with
Eric Bachman (e.ba...@bionic.zer.de) and it seems that he
is going to Beograd for a few months to build up the contacts
on that side. So for people who like to get in contact with
Beograd please do it over Eric.
More interesting is the talk I had with Christine about the
feelings and positions within the German and other western
peace movements about military interventions. It seems that
there is a split in opinions straight through the movement.
But the people against military interventions are not so
strong against as during the Gulf war. Most people especially
those who are following the situation here closely and know a
bit more what is happening, even when they in generally are
against military interventions, can except it in this
situation, but would not advocate it.
I have really an open question why f.i. in the Gulf War there
was so many resistance against Military Intervention and not
now. Were the crimes committed by Iraq less worst than the
crimes committed here by any of the forces, or are these
countries just not that important to really make up your
mind. Why is it less problematic when the world starts to
make them self ready to kill some Serbs (cause that is what
going to happen, seen the landscape and the front, lot's of
civilians will also been hooked up in the fights (and they
will not come in with their infantry, but let the job done by
the airforces (and what that means we have seen in the Gulf
War))) and why was it such a crime in the Gulf War to kill
Iraq people (according the Peace movements activities in that
period).
Please let nobody in the world be offended by this question
it is a thought, I wonder were the differences are and if
there is somebody out there who can explain me, what made the
difference in thinking. I still feel strongly against
military intervention, knowing that my standpoint is not
popular here and hard to explain to the people in Sarajevo.
The recordings of the communication between the different JNA
officials broadcasted by BiH television made ones more clear
already jamming them would makes the fights a lot less easy
and it would make a good start (and that type of intervention
I can agree upon).
I still think that it is the task of the Peacemovement to
look further into the future and realise what military
intervention will mean for the future. As well as what we
have to undertake to get these countries somehow back
together again, since they have to live together in the
future. Rather that then high technical discussion about who
and under which conditions a military intervention should
take place.
Believe me I feel strongly for everybody in Sarajevo and hope
that the shelling is over soon, but on the other hand I also
would give them the idea that help is coming fast, if
military intervention will take place we anyway will have to
wait for some months. All that time the shelling probably
will continue, even when all the Peace movements in the world
call for fast interventions. So such a position would be of
much help for them at this moment in time. keep your brains
moving, there must be other ways to help them fast, before it
is too late and nobody is alive anymore to see the big
"liberation".
An other interesting point is the report from the BiH
governmental press office I have put on the net today. In
that report it stands clearly that there is a difference of
thinking and acting between the Generals in Beograd and the
field commanders in and around Sarajevo. An interview with
the former Yugoslav ambassador at the UN yesterday evening
also made clear that this difference exist. It looks that
Beograd has to situation absolutely not under control anymore
and that "fact" (I can't verify it) should be taken into
account when discussion economical and military actions
against Serbia. Especially at this moment when more and more
official institutions in Beograd (like the Orthodox Church)
start to openly take a distance from the fighting in BiH and
condemn them even. An enormous international attack on Serbia
could turn this whole situation up side down again. Rather
than condemn the Serbs and call up fora strong International
reaction we should support the opposition in Serbia and help
them to become stronger. That opposition can make the
difference in the future, especially when the shooting is
over.
From Christine I have heard that the American groups, or at
least those she has been in contact with, think that
somewhere during the summer, July or August, the decision
will be taken. The elections are in November as far as I can
remember so the time should be chosen according the best
political profit Bush can get out of it. And he needs some
good propaganda, so if it is too late for BiH it will
probably take place somewhere else in the World, there are
more options (f.i. Cuba).
It didn't surprised me, but still it is hard to except that
the civilians in Sarajevo are becoming part of the election
circus of the USA. It will be hard to tell to Ibrahim and
Nada that they just have to wait until the campaign planners
from Bush think the time is right and the effect for the re-
election is huge enough to do it.
The discussions in the Peace movement are mainly about how
and how far sanctions and military intervention should go.
Intervention in Sarajevo and Mostar seems to be more or less
excepted by most of the movement. But she also thought that
if Peace groups in former Yugoslavia are promoting such a
move, they can have problems with western Peace
organisations. She promised to ask a little more around to
find out the opinions before she comes to Zagreb next week.
She also mentioned that in the German media there were
articles that the Croatian Army is planning a big attack on
the so-called occupied territories. When such an operation is
planned than it is not visible here, not on the military
movements, mobilisation or in the media. According to the
German papers some General should have said that Croatian
Army is now strong enough to do it them self and that they
were not willing to wait any longer.
They only thing what is obvious is that more and more
Croatian soldiers are fighting openly in BiH and that members
of BiH army are trained here in Croatia. HTV shows every day
reports of the fights of the HV (Hrvatska Vojska, Croatian
Army) in BiH and as always they are winning.
On television they just showed the arrival of the Croatian
marine on Vis. The population went wild, red-white-blue flags
all over the place and a big party. Around 50 soldiers of
Croatian army are now at Vis. An other nice picture was the
balcony of the UNPROFOR monitors in Dubrovnik, they had to
run from one side of the balcony to the other to monitor all
the shelling and explosions. According to what I could
understand the shelling is not done by JNA marine anymore,
but mostly by Chetnik forces in the mountains.
With Love and Peace from Zagreb,
Wam:-)
P.s. It seems that in one of the streets in Amsterdam around
the so-called "Berlage Beurs" a gravity is made saying: "BBB
Utachi Zagreb" (BBB is Bad Blue Boys, the local fanclub in
Zagreb from former Dynamo Zagreb), I asked Milieu Kontakt to
tell it to Mi Za Mir and get it removed.
For those who haven't read this diary from the beginning,
once more I am just a Dutch fool in Zagreb, I have no special
links with any of the countries in the region and I don't
even speak the languages. I am nobody special, not a trained
mediator or anything. What I do everybody could have done and
still can do. It was just taking up my gear, getting some
money collected to come here and pay my bills and of I went.
I only wanted to come for a month and that's doubled now, and
I think it will take some time before I will leave the
countries, there is work enough for years.
If you like to help me please take up contact with
e.ba...@bionic.zer.de or g...@gn.apc.org they know what we
need and how to get it here. Transferring money is next to
impossible and all bankaccounts with foreign currencies are
anyway blocked since a long time. Only special trade accounts
can work with foreign money and we are obvious no trade
organisation. An other possibility is bringing it here
yourself, as said it is absolute safe in Zagreb.
Nebojsa I Jaksic
These seem to be fair options ( if anyone has some other ideas
- maybe the constructive ones - please speak ):
1) Sarajevo - stop defending what can not be defended by guns -
give up (does not seem to be a popular solution to the ones
inside the city borders )
2) Nuke Serbia - NATO forces needed - takes months to plan such
mission - very unpopular in Serbia - world may scorn NATO -
may cause major world problems like WWIII - no safe place in
Europe from radiation ( possible but very, very unlikely soln.)
3) Negotiate - how?
a) From position of power - Western bulies vs. poor but proud
Serbia (this is how Serbs see it now - feeling is that negotia-
tions like this are not negotiations but a try to enslave them)
b) From position of equallity - Do not depend on WEST to do your
job for you (use them only as an advantage) - negotiate from
the position of recognizing goals of both parties as well as
their strengths and weaknesses. I could elaborate on this:
Total break of Yugoslav Federal Army did not occur as planned
by western Yugoslavian states (I am a bit biased but you can
use "countries" if prefer). Also, Pressure on Serbia (embargo)
is not giving results immediately ( due to the last harvesting
season - enough food to last for years ) - when it actually
gives results may be too late.
On the other hand - dividing of Europe was a big miscalculation
of Serbian leaders, as well as counting on Macedonia for support
(in the early stages).
So, none of the forces involved are as strong as they believe.
The illusions of the leaders on both sides are paid by many lives,
on both sides (if there are only two sides).
So: F..... the world, negotiate and stop the war
Peace to all, we do not deserve to live in war
Neb
pnmi...@igc.org
From: <pnmideast>
Subject: Zagreb Diary
/* Written 10:37 am Jun 1, 1992 by gn:wamkat in cdp:yugo.antiwar */
/* ---------- "Zagreb Diary" ---------- */
Subject: Zagreb Diary
Zagreb Diary
01-06-1992
Dear Friends,
It is clear that it are surely not all the people in Serbia
who support the war and the politics of the government in
power. According to HTV the elections didn't work out so
well, lot of people did not went to vote. And it was a little
strange to see Milosovic voting and not knowing in which of
the about 7 boxes he had to throw his different papers.
What works are the demonstrations in Beograd against the war
and Milosovic. Just a few days ago a demonstration and
blockade of 1 hour was organised in the streets of Beograd by
the theaterplayers and other artists. Yesterday a small peace
demonstration grew spontaneously out to a giant demonstration
of a few tens of thousand of people protesting the government
and the war.
And today people will start to camp on the streets in Beograd
and they are determinate to stay their until Milosovic is
gone, the war is over or ..... (put in yourself, for the time
being there are also a lot of people in Serbia believing in
the war and what those powers can do and will do against this
campers we will see). Anyway it are positive sounds coming
out of Beograd (all according to HTV television and Croatian
radio).
In Zagreb hangs now on the main square a big banner stating
in English: "Military interventions NOW !!!", so that
position is clear as well.
Also for the first time in a long period some positive news
from Sarajevo, one of the transport (from Split) came through
and for the first time in many week people recieved food and
medicines from abroad. Today at 6.00 am an armistice is
agreed upon and let's pray that it will work. Over so many
days it would be a big relief for the people to be able to
come out the basements and shelters for some time. But up to
now most of the armistice in these countries didn't hold
long. The shelling went on during yesterday and last night ,
by the way.
Like the one (armistice) which was agreed upon yesterday for
3 am in Dubrovnik, it didn't even started, the shelling from
the hills went on, as it went on in Slavonski Brod and at
other parts on the Croatia front.
At the 9th of May we found an article in one of the
newspapers in Croatian that 2000 Chetniks were arrested, it
looks a lot if that messages had to do with the story about
the 2600 children, women and elderly men which are held in a
football stadium for over a month, according to Zoran
B.Djordjevic (the Authorised Representative of Republic of
Serbian Krajina, as he signs his messages on e-mail). The
name of the town, Odzak, is the same and the dates almost. I
checked it yesterday after reading Zoran's message one more
time, since I can't imagine that all those story are just
lies.
Also the stories about a torture chamber run by HOS units
sound not totally impossible to me (I don't know the Muslim
Green Berets, haven't meet any of them), I have seen a lot of
HOS soldiers here in Zagreb and I can imagine that they use
torture on their victims. But as said so often before both
stories can be absolute untrue as well.
Why I write this, with the big possibility to be called
Chetnik again, is to make clear that in this war people never
should try to simplify the things, there are no good and bad
guys, like in American westerns. On this moment the whole
world turns against Serbs and seem to forget that the good
guys (in this case the Croats and Muslims) are not so nice
guys either. I refuse to believe that ethnical speaking, the
Serbs are aggressive dangerous lions and the Croats poor
harmless lambs, and the Muslims just poor weak deers, which
don't do anything else than suffer (for sure Muslims in
Sarajevo suffer, but so do Serbs, Croats and Albanians in
Sarajevo and in other parts of these countries).
I hope again that I offended nobody with these lines, it is
easy to attack me and very harmless (I am not picking up a
gun and visit your home you know). But it is not so easy to
find out the true and write about it, when you are getting
only one-sided information.
Rather then accusing the other from his terrible acts, it
would be good if some people start to look for the splinter
in their own eyes, which is also a line out the bible, just
like to one an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth, which is
often use here as excuse for their deeds.
The ones who or more or less innocent are the thousands of
civilians who are killed in the fights and the hundreds of
thousand refugees, which have not much more left than the
clothes they had on and the things they could carry. In Split
they arrive again in big waves. The local hospitals run
totally out of medicines.
On the meeting of peacegroups from all part of former
Yugoslavia, which was held this weekend in Vienna is it
therefore been decided that we as peacegroups dedicate more
of our efforts on the problems of the refugees, which are now
all over the different countries. And unfortunately the
bigger refugees organisations are not able to respond quick
and effective. If they just solve the problems of one wave of
refugees the next one already came in a week before.
The meeting was rather succesfull, by tomorrow morning you
will find the results of the meeting on the net, yesterday
they only send this urgent fax with a list of medicines which
were needed now in Split. Agreed is that we are trying to
coordinated the information about the different refugees
streams more among eachother and get the information out to
the world as soon as possible, rather then trying to solve
the problem on local level and getting totally frustrated
from the impossibility to do so.
Also the importance of more international long term
volunteers was noticed, and rather then splitting me up in a
lot of small pieces or overworking me totally they ask me to
put the word out that in nearly all parts of these countries
volunteers are welcome to do the same what I am doing here.
Do not hesitate, and come. Even when you see bloody pictures
on your television every day, former Yugoslavia is big, whole
areas are not in the fighting zones, and some of the fighting
zones, like eastern Slavonia (yesterday they made a small
start with removing some of the 10.000.000 landmines, a
dangerous job, for people with really strong nerves, Ben, a
friend of mine which was doing that, nearly crack down under
the tension), are cooling down, Don't wait with your help
until all the fightings have stopped, there is already a lot
of work (also rebuilding work) to be done in the other parts
of these countries, work what has to start soon.
This lines were a reaction on the feeling I get from public
opinion in western Europe. The newspapers and the general
people think that the bullets start to fly around your head
as soon as you pass the former Yugoslavian border and that is
very far from the through, if you don't want to be involved
in any fighting or if you don't want to see destroyed place,
you just go to f.i. Rijeka, like the tourists who are
arriving there again, they only thing what may border you
there are the refugees on their way from Dalmatia to the
north, over 250.000 want to leave these countries immediately
and unknown is how many already went.
I don't know if I have told about our energy group, but that
is a group which is busy with making an alternative energy
scenario for the future, one of the things they try to find
out is the possibility of decentralised produced energy
production, especially with the use of windmills in the
Adriatic region. If you know that f.i. Zadar is already for
some weeks without electricity, you will understand how
important it is to find alternatives for the centralised
electricity production policy, which is still hold in this
country, also by the Tudjman administration.
Just got a phonecall from Vis from Vesna J., they like to
come back on Wednesday from the island, but don't know if
they can catch a bus from Split to Zagreb, sometimes in the
last weeks in went, but now with the fighting around Zadar it
will probably not going. And the ferry from Split to Rijeka
is probably also full with refugees. Abnormal things, but
every days reality in this countries. On Vis itself every
thing is quiet, the people are happy and feel real a part of
Croatia now the JNA soldiers have left and with a lot of
official things the Croatian flags was errected above the
former JNA barracks.
Hrvoje J Hrgovcic
>In your last post you are calling for ideas to make peace happen.
>These seem to be fair options ( if anyone has some other ideas
>- maybe the constructive ones - please speak ):
>
>....
>2) Nuke Serbia - NATO forces needed - takes months to plan such
> mission - very unpopular in Serbia - world may scorn NATO -
> may cause major world problems like WWIII - no safe place in
> Europe from radiation ( possible but very, very unlikely soln.)
>
Here is an opinion on the costs of NON-intervention...
"Our National Interest in Serbia"
letter to the editor
by Dunja Brozovic, Cambridge, Mass.
The Washington Post, Tuesday, June 2, 1992, page A18
I'm surprised that Stephen Rosenfeld ["Moving to Intervention in
Yugoslavia," op-ed, May 22] is so myopic he cannot see any major
national interest at stake for the United States in Serbia's war
against Croatia and Bosnia....by [at least] using air and naval assets
to help enforce sanctions, as it did in Iraq.
Slobodan Milosevic's expansionism, die-hard Marxism and goal to set up
an ethnically pure state threaten to shred the moral and political
viability of the new world order, the declared basis of U.S. foreign
policy. And, if Mr. Milosevic can ignore the U.N.-brokered
cease-fire in Croatia, as he is doing, any credibility the United
Nations hoped to establish will be swept away just as surely as that
of the League of Nations in the 1930s.
Indeed, if Mr. Milosevic can get away with it, this will be a green
light for other tyrants to try the same against their weaker
neighbors. If encouraging democracy and preventing such instability
and violence in other parts of the world do not equate to a major U.S.
national interest, I do not know what does...
>
>Peace to all, we do not deserve to live in war
>Neb
>
Hrvoje H
pnmi...@igc.org
From: <pnmideast>
Subject: Zagreb Diary
/* Written 1:37 am Jun 3, 1992 by gn:wamkat in cdp:yugo.antiwar */
/* ---------- "Zagreb Diary" ---------- */
Subject: Zagreb Diary
Zagreb Diary
02-06-1992
Dear Friends,
Every evening when I bike back from the Centre to Buzanova
(somewhere near to the centre of town) I see on the same
streetcorner police agents standing, every 500 meters or
about that. That is since that bomb attack a nearly a month
ago. The aim is that you feel nice and secured, but on me it
just have the counterreaction, if feel everything beside nice
and secure when I see so many police together. I never did
and I never will. Especially when you know that this macho's
like to drive with especially 75 km (around 50 miles) through
the most population walking streets, not for any reason, just
for the fun of it. If they would do that in Amsterdam you
would have troubles as Policecop within the first 200 meters.
Here people jump for their lives. But with a little bit of
luck you just can figure out a way were there is no police at
all. That's the different with our Police, you never know
when and where you meet them, here you are pritty sure about
where they stand.
When I saw on my computer what the phonebill should be for
May on Saturday I nearly decided to give up this private
action of mine, but let me thank you who have send a message
to me. You are so nice and lovely people out there, thank you
for your lovely letters and messages, it really help me, us
to keep believing in our work. The phone bill was by the way
over 120.000 dinars (about 1000 Dmarks, nearly 600 dollars),
20.000 more then I (my computer) figured out. I still don't
know how to pay it, but we will keep on dispatching messages
and sending out my diary until money will come or the line is
cut. Your message made me happy and satisfied, it is really
good to get those small ones, just one or two lines, it makes
everybody here and in Sarajevo so happy.
In the last month the prices went up again with 23,4% and the
income down with 15%, to live here you need per person
(single) about 20.000 dinars (only food and electricity and
very cheap housing) and for a family (4 persons) at least
69.000 dinars. The average income is 17.000 dinars, so figure
out for your self (this are official state calculations),
since I have entered this state the price went up with 43,5%
(two months) and the income down with 36,1%. The exchange
rate on the Dmarks from (60)90 to 100(125) dinar
(official(black market(which is much harder to find then in
the beginning, except from in the warzones, there they stand
about everywhere))).
Positive news, when I drive a my bike to the Centre the town
was full of the nice poster I made for the concert on
Saturday which is because of the international day of the
children who dead in wars. I make them on my computer and
then a day later those posters are all over town. This one is
great, it is made by my son (4 1/2), but he don't know, I
scan his handwriting in before I went and used one of the
drawings he send to me by fax. It is the most colourful
poster I have seen so far in Zagreb and the most avant garde
as well. At least every two week I have so my own creative
orgasm and I can't help it, but I like it a lot.
The negative news is that the shooting in Sarajevo is
becoming worst after the cease-fire went into existence, last
evening at 6 pm (1th June). Ibrahim was on his last energy as
far as I understood from what people told me. His office is
again bomb and Nada was unreachable for the whole day.
Ibrahim ask us to put that urgent message from the hospital
on the net (and I ask Manda at Support in London to dispatch
it to the proper int. organisations, what she did, as always
I must say). But most likely those 150 patient will be dead
by tomorrow evening I see no helicopter or bombers dropping
that aid over Sarajevo. When it happens I believe in wonders
again. It is what Manda wrote me back, precisely my feeling,
"I have dispatch your last message as fax to
International.......(not that they would do anything, but
they at least know what is going on)...". I don't write that
part between brackets to Nada or Ibrahim, but I think it.
Since I anyway am quoting other I take to freedom to quote an
part of an article Aida wrote, but it could have been mine,
since I was thinking the same:
"The newspapers have started to publish the names of those
who have been killed as soldiers of Croatian Army. Today
there were 709 male names, with their father names in
brackets, the list will be continued tomorrow. 3485 posthum
heroes of the nation. Who could learn their names by heart?
Together with the names of all those who could not be granted
by the Croatian President since they were children, women,
civilians or simply on the the other side?
It is a desperate idea to think that it would be possible to
make a list of all who have been killed in this war and to
learn it by heart? To repeat all these names as a prayer. I
can think of those who should be obliged to tell that prayer
every day, many times, to do nothing but to pray. Even if
they wouldn't know to whom, even if they have never prayed
before, or if they have never had a need to pray, they should
be obliged to do it. It is possible that they could image
some faces behind the names, some unfinished stories, that
they could imagine all other faces which were connected with
each of the names they say...I don't know if that could bring
any change. Our friends have been doing something similar by
reading, during their evening demonstration, the names of
those who have been killed on all sides. we probably make a
list together, now when we are also able to go on the street.
we could repeat the names together."
Croatia, a land without an outside world (except from former
Yugoslavia) it seems in the papers and the daily news on
television and radio, in 5 newspapers who found only that in
Haiti there was an uprising and in France some problems in
the Government and the communists changed sides. And for the
rest the World only exists if Croatia has anything to do with
it. Croatia, Croatia, Croatia, Hvratska, Hvratska, Hvratska,
Mir, Mir, Mir, Ratnu, Ratna, Ratni, Ratne, it is just a cheap
fairy tall. Oh, God, Allah, Buddha, Jaweh, let it be over
soon. Let the bombing stop, let the people live together,
bring peace over these countries, stop that bloodsheding
nationalism. Tomorrow starts in Rio the biggest meeting ever
been held on our planet, Croatia don't know what to say,
Croatia don't know how to say it, but Tudjman will go, in his
private jet. Let him for once say something to think
about...... Half the morning I spend to get the UNCED
document of the net, so at least some parts of the Croatian
delegation can prepare themselfs.
Where are those planes over Sarajevo, who were those guys
with their strong voices, should I buy a stengun and fight my
way into that town to deliver the goods, if so, please send
me the goods. Ibrahim said it is like Russian roulette to
walk over the street today. And then some idiot think that he
can save towns like Dubrovnik by declaring them to unique
place, don't let me laugh. None, and I repeat, none of the
fighting groups give any shit about the Geneva convention. As
nobody give a shit about the thousands of papers which are
going to save the world and the people in
Rio are going to adopt.
How long will it take before operation "Olympic games" will
start to "liberate" Sarajevo, No they would use there planes
to drop medicines or food, but to drop bombs. To wipe out the
"enemy" in the name of the free world. How long will the list
be after it is all over.
Don't let me bring you down, believe in your creativity,
believe that there are other ways to solve a problem. The is
no way to peace, peace is the way.
pnmi...@igc.org
From: <pnmideast>
Subject: Zagreb Diary
/* Written 1:58 am Jun 4, 1992 by gn:wamkat in cdp:yugo.antiwar */
/* ---------- "Zagreb Diary" ---------- */
Cc: conf:yugo.antiwar
Subject: Zagreb Diary
Zagreb Diary
04-06-1992
Dear Diary,
I am going to enjoy this country every day more you know. It is
fantastic what they find out today to make live even more
interesting today and the motivation to stay even bigger. Hurrah
after 7 years I have found myself a country were the government
openly proclaims that they are going to build a nuclear power
plant as soon as possible. And three coal power plants as well.
Hope that everybody out there remember the days last year that
JNA threatened to blow up the nuke from Slovenia.
We have a housing problem, militarism, unemployment, refugees,
domestic violence, discrimination (also from women), waste
problems, environmental destruction, war, deplaced people,
hungers, beggars, inflation, fascism, no good social system, half
knock out education system, aids, strong black (this has nothing
to do with somebodies colour), conservatism, lots of foreign
workers (abroad, soldiers from abroad and UNPROFOR), economical
problems, football hooligans, all kind of strange sects, a
government without experience (half the time in political
crisis), in a few month an anti abortion law, censorship,
mistreatment of animals, I must have forgotten a few, but they
will probably also be there, and now also a nuclear power plant,
not even yet under construction.
Dear activists abroad, this means fun for some years. Nice, nice,
nice. Pax wrote me this afternoon, before I heard this on
television, but I saw it coming, that he think of opening the
SNEEEZ (Stop Nuclear Energy Eastern Europe Zone) in Zagreb and
ask me if I could find cheap office space. Don't know if he meant
it as a joke, but I am going him to stuck to that idea.
It is great with this military intervention they also going to
drop there whole western industry into this countries. The
"liberators" give presents (a nuke, new car factories, new
this..., new that.....), no problem no green movement to stop us
and people who like to cooperate. This is going to be the
playground for western industry to test their newest samples and
bring them than from here back in the west.
Just your imagination this country could be build up an other
way, it would make a difference if people now in Rio demand from
the world population that Croatia and BiH are now going to build
up according the highest environmental possible standards. If
they mean they have to pay for it, together we going to try to go
in the other way.
Lots of industry and houses are anyway destroyed, so lets build
them up together. But now the world would listen in Rio, they put
Dubrovnik on a special plan, send some food, send in the troops,
give some factories, and we have another consuming state, with a
lot of problems in the future, but that is an other generation,
who then lives, when then cares I don't know if that was English,
it was Dutch anyway).
We have to wipe this dirty spot of our white faces in Europe,
this tribal war has to be stopped. Since this is to close, this
is our own white skin fighting here, it is closeby guys, only 14
hours drive from Amsterdam. It is not the other end of the World,
it is in Europe this time and it may be underdeveloped
southerners, but they have the same skin you know. Maybe the
white tribes are not all so civilised, those Balkan states are
anyway still not past the middle ages. So put a few bombs on this
spot and kill a few Serbs, some Croats and Muslims on the side
line, put maybe there were could become Serbs also you know, you
never know with those tribal people. Tomorrow Dalmatian want to
be apart, and Slavonia seems also not so happy as being no
undepended state.
Yes it is a bloody chessboard here. This is playing games on very
very high level, feeling bloody important. People should think
for themselves. I don't know how long I can see Croatia
television without somebody translation and filtering it for me.
This whole idea of filtering to true out the news is totally new
for me. This not knowing what happens out there in the world. For
most of you Croatia, Serbia and BiH are just those articles in
the morningpapers, next to all the other shit in the world. And
the 10 minutes (it is a closeby war) in the evening news.
And those unlucky ones like you, have to read the shit even on
his electronic net, they have to pay to get material of with
again reminds them that there is a war going on. That every day
live in Zagreb, in Ljubljana, in Beograd (New Yugoslavia), in
Skopje and certainly in Sarajevo is also 24 hours. 24 hours
filled with a lot of the same things as back home, the place were
I should be, but also 24 hours Croatia, BiH and Serbia. With no
shit from the rest of the World or it has to be at least an
upraise in the states, the formula one in Monte Carlo or some
grown ups guys putting a ball over a net for an income from who
somebody here only dream (in Paris, I can't remember the name,
but Wimbley is in London).
And you can't switch the channel you know, or you have to leave
the country. It is not just 5 minute or 10 minute, o, shit their
is a war going on down there. I remember myself. First ten days
of panic, are they totally out of their mind down there, let's go
and demostrate. And then huh, huh, that was close. Shit they
starting in Croatia, now, o, they only have airraid alarm because
they maybe will bomb the places, bit Zagreb is more or less
unharmed.
Yeah and then it is for a while again 5th page news, it is still
war, but there are so many wars. Are they totally crazy now, they
are shooting at Dubrovnik, that nice city, idiots, uncivilised
people. Can't they read they sign treaty after treaty and nobody
seems to have see what they agreed. That not normal, we send some
monitors down there, since this has to by stopped. This is Europe
guys, here shooting on an other tribe is not longer allowed. And
when you shot at each other do it according the rules. Let show
that we can have at least in Europe, nice clean civilised wars.
Okay, nema problema, EC has the things under control, Vukovar was
on that moment already destroyed. But is is just a photo in the
newspapers (I have been digging didge in that area, years ago,
they bloody destroyed my work, are they basters or what).
Shit they shoot at the referees, that's not allowed guys, once
more and we bring Uncle Sam in and he brings a lot of friends
with him. For what have we made the Geneva convention. They shot
never ever shot at the referees (and also not on international
humanitarian organisation), for the rest keep going guys, keep
going, we will talk about it. Let's have a plenary, smile say
cheese, but keep it clean, thee should not shout at the table
guys, we are civilised, we are no wild tribes.
What is up, Doc. You seems to have so problems down there, any
help needed, but not to soon please the elections are next year,
keep it under control and don't light the fire kids, I need this
victory badly, people are saying nasty things about the last one,
but keep the fire under the lid, don't let it spread too much.
There must be anything left over to save.
He, he, he, Geneva convention, do you remember, thee should not
slaughter, what they are shooting at hospitals, that's not
allowed guys, send in some more observers, this we haven't seem
in our continent for a long time, let some press came down there,
this is news again and those locals can't even get there camera
stable. Close up please, not to much blood please this is for the
eight a clock news children can watch. can you move that little
baby a little more to the body, so that his eyes with tears about
his dead mother fall on her stomach. That's it that is the
picture, keep it there. By the way was did a Serb or a Croat, it
is no Muslim I can see she has no black uniform. O, it is still a
Muslim, in European clothes, how can you recognise that, o you
knew here, and you are, what Serbian, you are the enemy isn't,
have you killed her, no, I thought all neighbour killed each
other here, that is not true, how weird.
No, guys, concentration camps are not allowed, but we can't look
everywhere you know, oh, that are warcriminals, that boy from
four was shooting a big riffle, how odd, are children born here
with guns in their hands, and what a women do the enemy have in
their army, but if you say so, o, not criminals just prisoner of
war, keep to the rules, and good day, how do you say, Dobro dan,
or so.
By the way we have some deserters and some refugees coming to our
countries, keep them down there, we give a live aid group a ring
and we send you some tents. But please keep them there otherwise
we have to do such uncivilised things as being not social and
closing our borders. By the way those deserters you must take
care of yourself, they are walking around with the wrong papers
and that we can't allow ourselves, ordnung muss sein.
Keep that Olympic flame high, boys, we are moving see us coming,
but after the games, or maybe before if the time is good. And
fight your war a little more systemic please, when possible with
one front at the time, this scattering around is not good for the
people out there to follow what is going on. The keep it simple
we concentrate the world press in and around Sarajevo, that is
anyway every day price, and the local press can cover the rest.
But can't you just split that country in three part that would
make it lot easier to cover.
By the way that war in Kosovo can start about now, we have our
cameras ready, Sarajevo is anyway a little too hot now. Don't
make the same mistake and one at the time, not in Vojvodina and
Sandsak or what ever yet unknown part otherwise we have to move
too much around. And it is so hard to follow for the outside
world.
Or was it all planned in the war and campaign rooms, how long can
we let them play and them we take over guys, we are going to get
marching in as the liberators and take the market without any
resistance. It is possible that all this peace researchers who
saw it coming made it clear years ago what could happen and they
just let it happen. You don't know how clever those war and
economic games computers can be nowerdays.
With Love and Peace from Zagreb,
Wam:-)
P.s. for all of those who feel, that I have offended, or Tribal
people, or Africans, or Serbs, or Croatians, or Europeans, or
Americans, or Muslims, or humanitarian aid group, or what ever,
this was a piece of nearly Dutch black political cabaret (they
never say what they think, or just see that what you should
think, or see if you think what you should thinking, but in no
way the real true), unfortunate the war is real.
pnmi...@igc.org
From: <pnmideast>
Subject: Zagreb Diary
/* Written 12:28 pm Jun 5, 1992 by gn:wamkat in cdp:yugo.antiwar */
/* ---------- "Zagreb Diary" ---------- */
Subject: Zagreb Diary
Zagreb Diary
04-06-1992
Dear Friends,
Yesterdays issues didn't was the best edited, after I was reading it the next
morning I recognised the money spelling and grammar mistakes I made, but
that's me, I am Dutch, this is still not my mother tongue. It was a very
emotional reaction on the news that Croatia wants to build a new nuke and
sorry I have something against nukes.
Today another interesting announcement was made by the Croatian government,
the word is out, Croatia calls up on the world to start the preparations for a
military intervention in BiH. Croatia itself has start their intervention in
BiH already from the beginning, but like to get some help from some friends.
It is obvious that Croatia feels itself getting stronger by the day, in
military sense. The newsrapports are heroic stories how Croatian army is
active in BiH and has victory after victory.
Some days ago Christine told me that the western press is writing about a huge
offensive, which Croatia seems to prepare in the so-called occupied
territories. At first I had to say that I knew nothing about it, there is no
mentioning about it in the Croatia media, neither do I see huge mobilisation
activities or army movements in and around Zagreb. But after some calling
around in the country it seems that on curtain places, directly after the
front line big gatherings take places from the heavy equipment, which the HV
(Croatian Army) has collected over the last 9 months. If this is just the
withdrawal of the troops out of the UNPROFOR areas or a preparation for their
final attack on the occupied territories is still unclear. It even can be a
beginning of a Croatian attack in BiH to "liberated" Sarajevo, according the
reports they are only a few kilometres away from the places. Anyway something
will happen soon that is sure.
In the main time Tudjman's popularity is falling, I will get the figures
translated today, but according to a big poll done by Slobodna Dalmacija (the
only real undepended, private owned, newspaper) over 57% of the Croats think
that he should finish his political career (the poor guy, he just started). In
the same poll interesting answers about the media and the freedom of news
spreading by the opposition.
Croatian government also decided to give themselves some more democratic
outlook, this law on verbal delicto, which cause some court cases in the last
months, was discussed yesterday in parliament and it looks if they are going
to withdraw the law, as well as most of the courtcases. Maybe the
international pressure has help there.
Today was a chaotic day, first of all since Sarajevo was under very heavy
attack the last days, all this talks about peace treaties and so on,
liberation of the airport, seems to be not really happening. Absolute sure
about what is happening there is at this moment impossible, the only source is
Croatian (HTV) and BiH (via HTV) television and the press. For the so-much
time in a row the telephone line to Sarajevo are cut, the bombing of last
night seems to have destroyed the last part of the telephone building.
In this case that was super stupid for us, since at last the ball is rolling,
thanks to some friends in the States (fantastic how the nets are working) we
have collected a list of contacts of medical industries and others, who like
to help the people in Sarajevo, especially that urgent call for Kidney
patients was reacted on. But it was impossible to ask Sarajevo hospital or
Ibrahim what they precisely need. So we go for what we know and that is that
they needs about everything you can imagine.
In the morning it looked like I found myself a helicopter, but during the day
it became more and more clear that those pilots only want to go if the airport
in Sarajevo was secured. They didn't dare to fly alone all the way. It
wouldn't be the first one, which is shot out of the air like a duck. And it
really doesn't matter what symbol you spread on those things, red stars, read
crosses, black letters (UN), blue symbols, nothing seems to work.
Via the Dalmatian Solidarity Council (DOS) in Split it seems however that
medicine and other materials in small shipments can go over the mountains,
they have a lot of contacts with people in BiH and know the ways. How that's
is not good to tell at this moment, but this grassroots links of friends seems
to work were other big organisations seems to fail. Other options was getting
the Croatian or Slovenian Army in the air and get it through via them. After
some discussion at ARK we however decided to use the DOSlink first, before we
go to the heavy guys. They have recieved all what we know and it is hoping now
that it works. But I am positive, even when people have some thoughts about
the reliability of the e-mail nets (some said you never can be sure, every
fool can put on it whatever they want). If the deliveries from medicines to
Split and Sarajevo work out we can be very proud, as far as I can recall it is
one of the most practical actions which ever been coordinated over the nets
(at least over the none-military nets). I hope that our sponsors agree that we
go for grassroots solutions, since official those things should go via the
governmental chancels (Croatian government has installed a huge institute for
collecting and distribution), our friends from DOS however have their thoughts
about their functioning. I don't know how to thanks you out there for helping
us, it is fantastic (honestly I never ever thought it would start to roll in
this way).
Yes, I like to tell you that Vesna and Milena have returned from Vis and, it
is unbelievable if you have followed the news, they came by bus from Split.
Yes the line are working again to and from that area, the busses take the
coastal road and that seems to be safe. I am happy that they are back, not
only was I missing them a lot, but also since ARK is a little scattered over
the World at the moment, Vesna T. is in Rio, Aida and Neela in Koper on an
international Women camp, some are on their way to Freiburg for the UNSAID
festival, Nina is in Paris to talk about refugees children and women, Vladimir
is still in Beograd (I am really worried now), Zoran (still not arrested, even
after so many weeks of not going for his mobilisation) is working on the
concert for Saturday and the book presentation of Green Action (today, the
book about destruction of the environment by the war in Croatia). And the rest
is lucky here again or still. Most ofcourse have their normal jobs, besides
ARK, but those who are free (due to unemployment) are busy in the Centre,
still on the floor, since we still have no money for tables, but things are
rolling.
The first foreign tourists have also arrived on Vis yesterday, two Germans
came in with their boat and ofcourse that is second pages national news
nowerdays. Vis is 100% Croatia now and ready to receive the tourists. Imagine
you are nicely Island hoping, find your selves a nice little island in the
Adriatic and next day your photo stand in the newspapers in Zagreb.
The list of killed soldiers had his last day today, tomorrow those pages in
the newspapers will be filled by the "normal" news again, about the killings
in BiH, about the fights in Dubrovnik, until the moment that there are another
3485 soldiers killed and a new list of state heroes can be printed. Maybe the
next one will be in alfabetic order. Hope that their lovers, parents and other
friends are happy with the nice medal they have got, the Zrinski and Frankopan
(two of the "big" Croats of the past).
From Osijek, still quiet in the town (no bigger alarms given in 2 weeks now,
in the surrounding still some shooting is heard), the messages came that they
are also ready to recieved the volunteers for the workcamps, and Vesna J. and
I will go there next week to organise the official stuff. Now they only thing
we need is the volunteers from abroad. There are app. 350.000 children under
17 years old now in the camps and centres. Please if you have some spare time
in July and August or earlier or later, come and play with them, they need it,
and when you have some toys (not used) laying around starts a local action via
health food shop or so and collect more and get it shipped to here, toys are
better then arms to play with (please do not send any toys which look arms or
so, that you can buy here everywhere).
I told you some weeks before that you here often explosions or shots in
Zagreb, not so much as elsewhere, but still a lot more as in my original
hometown (Sittard, NL, for the time being I consider Zagreb as hometown).
Looking for the origin of those explosions, it are not always drunken
soldiers, you really have to spell the newspapers to find out more about it.
But sometimes you find those small articles in which it is described: "Grenade
exploded in Pub, one person slidely hurt, lot's of damage, this is the 3th in
a row of bombing in this and this area, and probably a personal vendetta."
Yes, that is happening when you give the boys their toys to play with.
But that is not the only personal war within the wars which takes place a lot
of person have so their own grounds to fight the other side, more often they
are totally different (they didn't like their Serbian neighbours, the BBB
hooligans beat them up in Zagreb, they had relation problems with a Muslim,
this Serbian car-seller was making his own prices, etc.) from the official
fights, but never the less all that makes war.
Following the Nuke things, I just found out that the G-7 are going to decide
next month in Munich to spend 100 billion Dmarks for nuclear aid to East
Europe, it is really, really going to be a new area, start rounding up all
those anti-nuke activists, since we and all the countries in the east are
going to get what we have nearly stopped.
With Love and Peace from Zagreb,
Wam:-)
P.s. for those who send me or ark private messages the last days and haven't
recieved yet any answer, sorry, but the mailbox (43 message over the last 24
hours) is so full (that is great, keep sending our spirit is getting better
from it and more and more people start to believe in the nets) and we went for
the medical stuff messages the last day.
Those who send us stuff for Sarajevo (message) our excuses, but we can't be of
any help at this moment, the lines are cut.
IMPORTANT, can somebody find out if the telephoneline to Serbia and Montenegro
(now the computer connection over EARN are cut on official request of the
Austrian government, thanks to the UN resolutions, see the listing on the nets
from Linz) are still function (here are two new numbers of the Peace Movement
of Vojvodina (Pokret Za Mir Vojvodine), tel. +38-21-619019 and fax: +38-21-
22341, other faxnumbers can be found in a earlier, wait I copy them:
Evropski pokret U jugoslaviji +38-11-181471
Radio B92 +38-11-330946
Zenske stranka (Zest) +38-11-681989
HCA yugoslavia fax information Service +38-11-622957
CISIM +38-11-634594
AntiWar Campaign +38-11-681989
If anybody needs support, besides Sarajevo it is these people, who are slowly
getting more and more isolated from the world. Please try !!! And report back
if it worked.
pnmi...@igc.org
From: <pnmideast>
Subject: Zagreb Diary
/* Written 12:37 pm Jun 6, 1992 by gn:wamkat in cdp:yugo.antiwar */
/* ---------- "Zagreb Diary" ---------- */
Subject: Zagreb Diary
Zagreb Diary
05-06-1992
Dear Friends,
Do you ever that feeling that you computer reacts different
each day, mine does in any case, I never know how long it
takes before he (computers are males I think) wants to let me
in. Anyway maybe he reacts on this country the same way as my
mood.
If the Croatian government was smart they should close the
country after the concert of Public Enemy in Slovenia this
month, in one blow they would be freed from all their
political enemies. It is the most popular group among the
radical movement, to which a big deal from ARK and their
friends below. ARK is surely not a group, which is so happy
with their government. They are not so Croatian anyway, at
least not nationalistic. It is surely not that part of the
Croatian population which get tears in their eyes when they
hear the Croatian national hymn at the end from every days
television programme.
Public Enemy, you will find their names all over town written
on the walls, let's start a war p.e. (that's an old one from
before the ...), fight for your right, but mostly just simple
Public Enemy. I know not it charms me, but not enough to
leave the country for their concert. Somehow that music fits
in this country. Rough music in a rough time, some how that
siren in their music is a normal sound in this surrounding.
Still I like my John Lennon tape, remember that tape, 2
months ago I started this diary with it, better. Somehow I
get bloody nervous and even aggressive from that high speed
RAP music, but the texts is all right.
So what does a town council for their citizens in a war time,
when the prices are going sky high and petrol is something
for the happy few or does who like to starve to dead, but
still want to drive their cars.
Yes, you organise a car-rally in the city. Yes, Serbia and
Montenegro has no drop petrol coming in the country, but the
Croats organise a rally, yes why not. You only have to
organise a place where the cars can start and then off the
go, with 100 km through the pedestrian zone, through the red
traffic lights, having a competition with the tram, really
straight through the city. No special protections for the
spectators, just look out there is another racing devil
coming.
Bread and games is all we need. At least ones every two weeks
there is one major party or other events at the main square,
people happy and forgetting the idiocy which is going on. But
this is about top of the bill so far. Porches, Ferarries,
Opel Astras and what ever of high powered up racing models
from the INA motor club dashing through the city if it is
their city and nothing is going on.
Zagreb and Croatia, but I think also the other countries here
are countries with a huge difference between poor and rich.
Now the economy is really dropping in the last two years and
even every week now, you start to see who can afford him or
herself luxury and who not. Beside the old Fiats, Yugocars
and Renaults you see BMW's, Mercedeses and other high fashion
yuppy cars racing through the streets (I am not talking
anymore about this rally, but about normal live, no police
agent will make any problem any way, otherwise you give him a
few thousand and Nema Problema). And you see this split in
the population growing with the month. The rich get richer
since the poor has to sell there their stuff to stay alive.
A special picture is the woman in fir coats and with gold
everywhere, most of them are refugees (or rather displaced
people) who just arrived. Some months ago the youth of Green
Action did an action against the use of fir (like so many
environmentalist do), but here that is some type of a very
strange thing to do. Most of the refugees from BiH however
haven't had the time to pick up there gear (or they didn't
had, what is more likely) and arrive here with some carton
boxes (with some clothes, the transistor radio, some
artificial gold watches (which they like to sell)) and
nothing else and soon you see a part of them back going
bagging in the streets, with their identity card proofing
that they are refugees and no gypsies (the last ones are on
the bottom of the social stairs, even under Macadonians and
Albanians).
The amount of people bagging or selling roses or anything is
growing, they often even come at the doors and ask for money.
You see how desperate they are, but I can maybe help 10 of
them for some days and then I have to start bagging (what I
am in principle doing all the time, but not here, via the
nets).
Ever serious thought about hi-jacking an airplane, probably
not, but I was angry on myself that I never got my flying
papers, otherwise I probably had stolen myself an airplane or
helicopter to fly things to Sarajevo. Via our friends in the
States on the net we have now the possibility to collect a
lot of the medical equipment for over there and for the
hospitals in Dalmatia. But who likes to bring it there, who
is going to bring it to Sarajevo, none of the international
humanitarian organisation had the nerves, it is dangerous.
Some people from Split will now go through the mountains.
But I thought were are all those experienced helicopter
pilots, those Vietnam Vets, can we find them they have flow
under harder situation and they can bring food and medicines
now, rather then destruction and dead. And probably somewhere
we can find some grasshoppers (helicopters) if we have to
heroes to fly them. Maybe you know... why not just trying
it... There must be a way to get through.
According to Big Blue (HTV programme for UNPROFOR) in were
the USAmericans who are pushing in NATO in the direction of
military intervention, first step should be military
protection for humanitarian convoys, but later maybe the full
operation. But Europe was against it for the time being. This
surprises me, I wrote some days ago that I thought it was
that way, but some USAmericans made me clear that their
government wasn't thinking about it, they had already too
much problems in their own country, Bush anyway was too busy
abroad.
Ofcourse the political field here is fed up with the waiting
of Europe and since the USA has recognise Croatia, Slovenia
and BiH all the hope is focus on Uncle Sam, this big
protector of western democracy. As long as Europe play this
waiting game, the USA can play their game, but I am curious
to know when it change.
Countries who are also popular around here are South Africa
and Australia, you see a lot of propaganda for those
countries, and a lot of displaced persons or refugees are
planning or already emigrated there. After this whole thing
is over a few hundred thousand will never return. They found
themselves a new home country as I found one here for the
time being.
Believe me this situation are getting more crazy with the
more you get into it. If you follow the Greece-Macadonia
discussions, Bulgaria claiming that all Macadonians are in
principle Bulgarians, Greece being against the name (afraid
of upraises of Slavic people in their Macedonia), Serbia more
or less having the same opinion as Bulgaria and the
Macadonians saying their are an own nations (both
geographically as ethnically). A little to the East
Transilvania and Vojvodina with their minorities (or even
majorities of Hungarians). It looks like a giant cooking pot
of tensions which can exploded any moment.
After the private jet Tudjman has got himself a private train
and a summer house on an island. About 60% of the people in
Croatia think that Zagreb is using to much money anyway
(Zagreb has 25% of the Croatian population), 75% thinks that
the government spend too much money on cars, flats and other
luxury things for there selves. More statistic, 60% of the
wounded (invalid) soldiers is younger then 30.
With Love and Peace from Zagreb,
Wam:-)
P.s. listen to the first 5 lines of Lennon "Watching the
wheels"
pnmi...@igc.org
From: <pnmideast>
Subject: Zagreb Diary
/* Written 2:09 am Jun 7, 1992 by gn:wamkat in cdp:yugo.antiwar */
/* ---------- "Zagreb Diary" ---------- */
Subject: Zagreb Diary
Zagreb Diary
07-06-1992
Dear Friends,
Yes, I have to confess today was kind of a free day for me,
remember that poster I made a week ago, today was the big
(veljko) concert of the international day for children who
died in war. Veljko is relative, but I think that over the day
1000 (in Vienna was a huge (hard) rock concert for Croatia and
in the fair a concert for the refugees, at the same time) or
more people sat down in front of the open air stage in
Maksimir (the biggest park in Zagreb), it is anyway less
populated nower day then a year ago, people say. The music
went from children to churches choruses, from Hira Krishna to
Franciscans (both in uniform, from their religious or church,
not military), from straight antiwar to half evangelic
singers. 9 Hours music and poems (from which I ofcourse didn't
understood anything).
The Franciscan band, 5 monks in their dark mantels (how do you
call those things), with a list from Gregorian to something as
close harmony soft rock (inclusive electric guitars) were
absolute my favourite. I haven't seen anything like that
before, or it must have been during carnival in Limburg (my
home province), but than it were no real monks. This group
seems to be very popular, they even had some concerts in night
clubs. But when they start playing you can't get them of
stages you know. Nevertheless fantastic.
All in all the wetter was in the beginning somehow cloudy, but
during the Hara Krishna (around 3) the wetter became much more
sunnier, so I spend my day mostly sitting in the sun, looking
at the app. 100 till 200 people which were listing at the same
time and thought about being here in Zagreb. And a lot about
Sarajevo, since we are completely cut off I am missing Ibrahim
calls for help and Nada's reports a lot. I am thinking if the
medicines are on their way now or that everything goes too
slow.
Wondering why it is possible that mankind can put people on
the moon and robots on mars but not able to bring some food
and medicines into Sarajevo, without immediately about brutal
violence. Why not use remote controlled airplanes or tomahawk
with medicines inside, if then can fly through the streets of
Baghdad, why not through the street of Sarajevo. Or as Ogden
said, why are they don't bombing 50.000 alive chickens over
Sarajevo, they will fly to the ground (they can't fly so well
anyway, and if a few get shot, that can't be the problem). You
can fill pages with those ideas. Why not this.... why not
that.... If women would have rule this country it would have
been probably No War, but otherwise a more moderate one.
And that brought us to a concrete problem for the future, what
is the role of women after the war, they are in the majority,
in the whole age group from 18 till 50 a large part of the
male population will not return. Killed in war operations or
killed by "war" operations (this last category can be consider
as warcrimes, but for me a war is a crime in itself, and you
can't blame human being for going over the line in a situation
in which you will have lost your head yourself). As said I
don't want to judge over all those "warcriminals" in the
different countries, not now and not after the war.
What kind of influence will that have on "Our Common Future",
which has another ring here than in Rio, will women play a
bigger role in politics, or will man become more stronger.
What is clear is that this government tries to get the whole
economy and all parts of social life under control. Just
before the war some companies bought themselves from the state
(the workers got shares in the companies) and now they like to
turn that back, since that happened under Yugoslav laws, which
are not in power anymore.
Danas, the most progressive weekly also asked 8 months ago for
such a deal with the state, buying there self as the
journalists, but heard this week that it is not possible
anymore, as protest Danas didn't came out this week.
An other point what I think is strange, at least for my
country is that the total registration of the population is
registrated via the police. If you move somewhere else you
have to inform the police and not f.i. the town
administration. It give me an unheimische (a German word but I
don't know any other which could describe it better) feeling.
Knowing that they just had a huge people counting (how do you
call it) last year (inclusive a lot of more personal question)
and that all that data is registrated together, name and
information. Since the early seventies we have no people
counting anymore in the Netherlands, too much protest,
especially against the combination between name and background
data, the last part they only need for statistics anyway, name
are not important.
In the evening we discussed what we could do for a friend who
totally lost his mind and goes now to BiH (he gets a uniform
from HOS) and wants to go with a camera man to Sarajevo. If I
get killed, I get killed, but I can't do any else, you know. I
can't sit anymore and see them suffering, I want to be with my
people. He is not HOS, but think that that uniform will give
him a free passages at least to near Sarajevo. But it is not
the first person I have seen leaving south and will never hear
from again. I still don't know if that Dutch reporter, who
passed by some weeks ago, has ever made it down there, at
least he never send a message he didn't and Ibrahim never that
he did. People disappear in BiH and nobody ever will found out
what happened.
At our concert there was a group of Arabic UNPROFOR soldiers,
only one had an uniform on, which brought somebody to tell me
a story which stood in the papers some days ago. A bataljon
UNPROFOR soldiers from Ghana or any other African country took
over the security in a village for some weeks, which never
even was in the warzone, or any of the UNPROFOR sections, they
just were at the wrong place. And ofcourse it took a lot of
burocraty to get them to their real planned positions.
The UNPROFOR soldiers seems to be allowed to talk with people.
different than those EC monitors, who seems to be not allowed
to talk with any normal person. Vesna and Milena have tried
during their stay on Vis to get in contact with them but they
refused to talk to anybody. They are just monitoring. I think
nobody will ever understand this situation if he or she not
also talks with the "normal" people.
I also tried to get in contact with the Dutch person of
Medians without Borders, at least his car is Dutch, but it
didn't work so far. He hasn't reacted my phone call so far and
my messages on his landrover (under the windowcleaner). But
they are also busy.
In the coming weeks we have no concert, but we would like to
organise something again soon, maybe some nice western band
like to come and play. So if you like to come to play, foreign
bands are very popular, most foreign bands who play them I
never heard of, even when they are from, the Netherlands.
pnmi...@igc.org
From: <pnmideast>
Subject: Zagreb Diary
/* Written 5:39 pm Jun 8, 1992 by gn:wamkat in cdp:yugo.antiwar */
/* ---------- "Zagreb Diary" ---------- */
Subject: Zagreb Diary
Zagreb Diary
7/8-06-1992
Dear Friends,
Bread and games, I told you that's what keep the people
forgetting what is going on. Yesterday (Sunday evening) is was
again price at the main square, the INA car rally festival or
whatever was closed with a festival from what I thought nice
folkloristic music. Forget it, it were well known Utachi
songs, "Jure and Bubane have call up again to fight" and the
whole audience knew the songs by heart. On such a moment, when
the black flags from HOS are waved and the people sang en mass
that they going to get those bloody Serbs you start to tremble
over your whole body. What is wrong with this countries, what
made them so fanatic.
In the DDR (when it still called DDR) I ones was encountering
a local festival where the older people started to sing, when
they were drunk, the songs of the "alte kameraden" (old
comrades), fascist songs from the second world war. It looked
harmless, this small people, with hardly no teeth in their
mouth left. And then when the wall came down and the neo-nazis
started to beat up my friends in Berlin it looked a little
worst. But still it were not that many and never real in the
open, with police and so singing along. But here it is damned
real, this is official organised by a state company. Utachi
(stand up) are their heroes, their freedom fighters, but never
the less it are just neo-nazis, referring back to a group
which fought the war for the Nazis from Germany some 45 years
back.
In Maksimir, the big park, in the Zoo there was also a big
humanitarian concert on Sunday, not for Bosnia or for
refugees, but for the animals in the Zoo. Those poor animals
haven't had enough food anymore, since in this times of
repression nobody can afford to go there and the state has no
money, they say. It remind me a bit on that little bear what
was shown on television the other day, the most famous refugee
from Bosnia. Ofcourse animals must live, but if you type daily
stories in a computer about people who a re starving in Mostar
and Sarajevo, it is a little hard to except that more people
are willing to pay for a concert for the animals than for a
concert for help to BiH.
Most of today I spend in the office of Medicines without
borders, just across the street of our Centre. They had some
"problems" with their computers (didn't know how to copy a
programme from one computer to another) and it was fine to
speak Dutch for a while. Furthermore we needed to talk anyway
about the kidney patients in Sarajevo and the possibility we
had to get material, via our friends in the states. Yesterday
evening and this morning there was a short telephone
connection with Sarajevo, but before we got the information
about how and what they needed the connection was gone and no
new was established.
The doctors have fortunately a mobile car telephone place in
that hospital and that one is still working, there news was
that most of the patient survived the last week, but never
would be able to survive another week. They were also busy to
get liquid and infusion solutions for them, the problem is
however how to get it there. You need at least a truck to
bring enough liquid for two weeks for all those patients. They
have the problem that they more or less have to decided if
they are going to risks peoples life to bring it there,
knowing that the last transport all has been robbed on the way
down.
The guy I talked with was on that huge UNHCR transport from 3
weeks ago what was held up south of Banja Luka for some days,
before the drivers and trucks were taken away and returned
empty back, nobody was killed, but none of the freight reached
their destination. As far as he knows Sarajevo is the only
town were there are still kidney patients in the other towns
they were moved out in time, most of the patients in Sarajevo
wanted to stay, since they were old and didn't believe that
such a thing as now would happen. Besides trying to get
medicines in they think it is better to get those patients
out.
The airport however is still occupied and most of the runways
seems to be destroyed. The treaty to leave the JNA out of the
Tito barracks and in return to open the airport for
humanitarian aid is signed last week by all involved parties,
but as so much treaties nothing happened since then. So all
the hope which the outside world has that this airport is
going to be open soon is here and in Sarajevo taken with
enormous amounts of salt. It was one of those dreams you know.
If you are here you start to understand that those dreams are
soon becoming nightmares.
The situation in Sarajevo is not much better than the days
before, the shelling was again heavy during the night and most
of the doctors and other hospital personal couldn't go to
their work this morning. That's the reality. A reality we
often can forget here in Zagreb. For me the shelters are only
those blue triangles on orange stickers you see at the
buildings with public shelters. In my whole two months I have
been only for 2 hours in a shelling, in Slavonski Brod,
nothing happened with me.
On Wednesday I will return to Osijek (if there are any
questions or messages, please send them soon) again to
organise the workcamp there some more, but I don't have to be
thinking about so much as last time, it is still quiet in that
area. On my way back to Zagreb I will pass by Vinkovci and
Djakovo, and I hope to return back in the end of the week.
Vladimir returned back from Beograd today, I was happy to see
him, he was tired from the trip, but said that he had no
problem to leave Serbia, for which I was afraid all those
days. The situation in Beograd is much worst than in Zagreb,
the first signs from the blockade are already noticeable in
the shops and the prices are raising rapidly. The opposition
is rather small, but active, they keep on demonstrating in the
streets. And Vladimir brought the latest material from the
Centre for Anti War Activities with him, they keep on going.
Now the last contacts via computers are also broke down the
need that we re-establish fast a new line becomes more and
more necessary.
These morning I also spend again some hours on the
policestation in the hope to get my official papers, but
hopeless, the lines are still enormous, and people are still
coming in.
pnmi...@igc.org
From: <pnmideast>
Subject: Zagreb Diary
/* Written 6:55 pm Jun 10, 1992 by gn:wamkat in cdp:yugo.antiwar */
/* ---------- "Zagreb Diary" ---------- */
Subject: Zagreb Diary
Zagreb Diary
9/10-06-1992
Dear Friends,
It is strange that somehow Croatia is always related with
Nationalism and Neofasism, I noticed by myself how I try to
find time after time symbols of this things here in Zagreb.
And how I reacted before I came here on the fact that in the
German press there was a messages that Neo-Nazis were
fighting in the Croatian army. Somehow in general you never
combine this terms with f.i. Slovenia, Bosnia and even
Serbia.
Even in my stories I notice that I often describe situations
which could be considered as fasictic or similar. The left
wing movement in Croatia also knew about this before the war,
therefore they call them always Yugoslav rather than Croats,
in the counter to f.i. most of the other left wingers in
Europe who have a tendency to call themselves after their
region. I must say at least from myself that I always would
say I am from Limburg, rather then from the Netherlands.
In the same time that we in Western Europe accused Croatia
from being extremely nationalistic in Serbia already Chetnik
groups were active. And those groups have the same form and
images as the Utachi group in Croatia. I don't know why it
was somehow so that this negative vision on Croatia was
harder than on Serbia.
In is also a fact that Paraga party started to grow after the
war started and that before it was a very marginal wing in
pre-war Croatia. And to say something positive about Tudjman
for a change is the fact that without him extreme nationalism
would have been much more powerful at this moment. At least
somewhere in the line he worked as a short of filter, without
his appearance Paraga's party would probably be much
stronger.
Vesna just showed me the newest brand of children chocolate,
called "Cro(atian) Army" and is wrapped in camouflage paper.
It is very popular and inside the wrapping you can find nice
drawn pictures of brave Croatian soldiers. Earlier it were
nice pictures of animals. But yeah.... even children... Most
of the toys you can buy for your children here are anyway
always related to armies (you can choice nowerdays, HV or UN
plastic tanks).
It was rainy today in Croatia and the other parts of former
Yugoslavia and that is very very good, when it is raining the
bombing on Sarajevo is not so intense you know, the get
especially heavy bombed when it is a sunny day. So even when
it looks a lot less positive outside our windows we have at
least the feeling that it is better for our friends in
Sarajevo.
The 50 UN monitors has arrived in Sarajevo just a few hours
ago, together with the first convoy which got through to
Sarajevo in weeks, the carried 3 tons of medicines and were
held already for many days a little north of Sarajevo, but
weren't be robbed. According to the latest news JNA is
removing their heavy arms from Sarajevo airport, but the
shelling is still heavy in the rest of the city.
The French UNPROFOR force will go to Sarajevo today or
tomorrow was said on the television and rumours are now
widely spread that the 6 fleet commander had a secret talk
with the Croatian government. Question were asked at
television, but Tudjman said he couldn't say anything about
this talks.
One of my tasks as I feel it is often to be a symbol, a
promoter of hope and crazy idea. Most of my friends have just
enough money to live and have crazy ideas what they really
like to do and what they think should be done. But it is so
hard to leave their last securities to realise their dreams.
Imagine you earn 100 Dmarks per month, that is just enough to
pay or your food or your rent, never for both. But at least
you have some security. I am pushing like hell to convince
them that we are able to build up our own alternatives
(social centre, free press and media, etc.), with a little
help from our friends abroad.
Rainer from Berlin came by yesterday with a full bag of
presents for me and the other people from ARK (as well as a
large amount of chocolate for children in the refugees camps,
which I have been spreading out today), the best present he
brought was however a world receiver. For the first time in
two months I have the feeling again that I am living in the
world. For hours I have been listen to BBC world services,
Italian, Spanish, German and even Dutch programmes. I didn't
knew anything from the tension in between Cuba and the
states. But all that other news I swallowed like candies.
Reading newspapers were Sarajevo was only an small article on
page 5 and nothing was said about the things which fill the
papers here every day.
At last I hear what you have been hearing all that time, I
have been reading what you have been reading and for a day
the war was far far away. Suddenly the world became bigger.
Do you know f.i. that a shark was seen in the North sea
yesterday. And that people in the western world should change
their eating habits to avoid further ecological disasters
(said in Brazil).
For the first time I also experienced what it is to get
solidarity gifts from the west, it was in many ways a strange
thing for me, getting presents from somebody I only met
through the nets. It is great.
With Love and Peace from Zagreb,
Wam:-)
P.s. you will have to miss me for two days now since I will
be of the net, I will try to get on in Osijek, but my laptop
is in Paris and not back yet.
And don't forget the fact that we need still volunteers for
our workcamps.
pnmi...@igc.org
From: <pnmideast>
Subject: Zagreb Diary
/* Written 1:05 am Jun 11, 1992 by gn:wamkat in cdp:yugo.antiwar */
/* ---------- "Zagreb Diary" ---------- */
Subject: Zagreb Diary
Zagreb Diary
11-06-1992
Dear Friends,
I have been a little lazy the last few days, there for two stories
on one day, at least within 12 hours from each other written, the
11 is just a few minutes old. By the time you will read it will be
on my way or already (even have been) in Osijek, were it is a lot
safer than in Zagreb, since the on the street is a lot less. I am
very anxious to see if the windows from Australia are already
placed in the centre and to find out if the stress of the people
is different now after nearly 3 weeks of living without shelling.
Christine from Germany will accompany us (Vesna J. and me) to
Osijek and maybe some Arkers will popup at the station when we go,
Osijek has a special call you know. So it wouldn't be a boring
trainride (what it was in the days before the war, I made the trip
from Beograd to Zagreb 12 years ago nearly every week for a half
year and often I went via Novi Sad and Osijek, since the view was
boring).
In Osijek I hope to finish the last official documents for the
workcamps and maybe can arrange some public sleeping places for
people who like to come earlier to help with the rebuilding. Maybe
by the time that you arrive Osijek will live after 11 o'clock as
well outside the houses. The last messages were that everybody
still have to be in before 11 o'clock, that makes evening sessions
rather short.
Christine told us this evening a crazy story which was the first
reason to jump behind the computer. She told that in the earlier
days of the war in Croatia from the bus station in Cologne busses
went to Zagreb and Beograd to join the war. The police in Cologne
had their hands full keeping them from killing each other already
in Cologne. Ofcourse immediately a picture comes to your mind of a
bus station with all kind of buses to different warzones in the
world, special trips visiting upperside warzone in one tour. On
the otherside buses for peace activists to all different
demonstrations which is held in that weekend. If somebody has not
to do in the weekend, why going to the movie or watching it on
television if you can get it live in in real 3D. Come on your
weekend urban warriors.
Also it reminds me of a beautiful tradition which went on a few
years back in Belgium. Just 40 Km down from Sittard (you really
have to find a map from the Netherlands this time), a little south
east from Maastricht you will find a place called the "Voerstreek"
or "Fouron" (or they other way round, depend if you are from the
Wallonie or from Flanders, or they other way round). In some
summers it was a popular sport in that area that every Saturday
busses from Gent and Antwerpen came there to fight with people
which came in busses from Liege and Namur. And the police on
horses riding around those groups. Some times it went on for weeks
in a row, especially in mid-summer (when there was no football).
The whole battle was about the fact that this area lays in the
French speaking province of Liege, but belongs to the Dutch
speaking province Limburg. That means schools are Dutch or mainly
Dutch, but the most of the new population came from Liege. The
major is or was French speaking and was not willing to speak
Dutch, which is an obligation in that area for official meetings
and so on. It belongs to the category "Cucumber news (summer
news)" of the Dutch newspapers.
Here the first frontsoldiers were football hooligans and hard rock
fans (or ofcourse a combination of them) on both sides (if you
count JNA out in that period) and that resulted in the so-called
Croatian or Serbian Urban Warriors, dressed in old American
camouflage uniform, football or hardrock t-shirt, ray-sunglasses,
rozenkreutz, bands around their head, hand grenades in their
pockets and the strangest colours of half long hear. In the
weekend and holidays joined by workers from factories and offices
(from Serbia and Croatia or from abroad). The time just before
Vukovar was taken by Chetnik forces (I hope I wrote it neutral
enough, I really worried some times how I can formulate something
without offending anybody (I don't only have to watch out for my
words about the situation here, I just wrote about the Belgium and
maybe I wrote something not 100% true you know, or I used a word,
which meaning can be mis interpretated), I really have to watch my
words).
Don't get me wrong during this "romantic" period a lot of people
got killed and it really was a total chaos on the front, a lot of
casualties were because of that total chaos. And I think that a
lot of things has happened in that short period, which set the
route for the whole war which came after it. The war of the
football hooligans is long over now, all armies in this battle are
becoming more and more professional (if you understand what I
mean). What made the war starting and who made it so cruel in the
first place will be a discussion point for years, fact is that in
a weeks things happened, which totally shocked people on both
sides. Why and how was it possible? I think in those days a lot of
the things were seeded which are now in full blossoming in Bosnia
and Herzegovina. Revenge on revenge, I am sure if those first few
weeks would have been a little less chaotic these wars would have
been a lot different.
I named Vukovar, since that town you nearly can see every day on
HTV, the re-run from a total destroyed street and a group of
marching soldiers with black Chetnik flags, singing that they are
going to make barbecue meat from Utachi. These 5 minutes I have
seen a 100 times. So I have heard the stories over and over again.
I have been a couple of times in Vukovar Hotel, were the displaced
people from Vukovar live. I have seen soldiers from the Vukovar
Vets, according to HTV the best fighters on the front, they never
sleep. Still I know that that have to watch my words very very
tense.
Rumours and television pictures are a strong weapon in this war, I
don't know if has been told in the west, but this morning in
Sarajevo Serbian and JNA forces used fragmention and chemical
bombs according to Croatian radio. Don't react that that's against
the Geneva convention, since that convention is anyway broken
millions of times already. As said some days ago, they even shoot
at the referees.
Zagreb becomes more and more centre of the world, more and more
UNPROFOR soldiers are arriving from all parts of the globe and the
street our office, looks a lot often like those films as
Casablanca in modern style, the amusement centre behind the war
zone. Soldiers checking the chicks out. Drinking beer on a cool
summer evening. Soldiers spending each minute of their free time,
before they have to return. Boys who just are demobilised,
soldiers of fortune spending their money. Soldiers fighting in the
discotheeks. The smell of popcorn and people selling bootleg
tapes. That is our street, the heart of a living world city.
Zagreb also a city which is more and more clean, now more and more
foreigners arrive, no refugees in the station anymore (at least
not during the day), the beggars nicely concentrated in one or two
street. In two months I saw Zagreb changing rapidly, the war is
loosing his face in Zagreb, it turns into a real swinging city.
One more thing if you ever come to Zagreb and you see cherilic
writing of the wall it is probably the name of a Croatian
politician which just said something wrong in some people eyes.
When I come back from Osijek and when in the next week nothing
will happen again I can write for the first since I have been here
the War is over (for Eastern-Slavonia). Let's hope it would be
such a relief.
With Love and Peace from Zagreb,
Wam:-)
P.S. I just heard that my bike is stolen in the Netherlands and so
it is not on his way to Zagreb. It is anyway dangerous to bike
here, but it would be nice to have a new mountainbike one day. So
if anybody from the CSFR (or one of those countries) comes by
pleas phone me, maybe we can organise something.
pnmi...@igc.org
From: <pnmideast>
Subject: Zagreb Diary
/* Written 3:15 pm Jun 15, 1992 by gn:wamkat in cdp:yugo.antiwar */
/* ---------- "Zagreb Diary" ---------- */
Subject: Zagreb Diary
Zagreb Diary
12/15-06-1992
Dear Friends,
Back in peaceful Zagreb after being for some days in parts of
the countries where you don't have to listen to the radio to
know if something is going on. You just count the explosions
you hear echoing through the hills.
I felt good being in Osijek again, strange how fast you get
attached to some places here. The train over there was as I
thought pack up with returning displaced persons (displaced
is people from Croatia who live somewhere else, refugees are
people from other countries (mostly BiH) living in Croatia at
the moment). Now the peace seems to stay for a while in
Osijek people dare to return. For the rest it looked a lot
like an army train, almost all brigades from the Croatian
army were gathered in the train.
The travel was a lot more relaxed than the last time, at
least for me, don't know how Christine felt, for her it was
her first visit to this area. I remembered my first trip some
weeks ago, just before we left Osijek went through one of
their roughest nights and the whole time I looked for place
were we could shelter if the alarms would go off. Getting
closer to Osijek was like leaving the normal world and
entering a place were dead can be at each corner. I don't
know if you can describe that feeling in words. It is a
tension which you feel, but don't want to talk about.
Osijek now is more and more alive, some of the broken windows
are already replaced, and the hard boards which covered the
shop windows were taken away. Lot's of the highschools
started to work again and all those young people bring
somehow life back into the city. A city who never really was
not alive, the people who stayed behind managed to let the
town living, even under the hardest attacks. Katharina had to
admit that Osijek never have been that clean as during the
last 9 months.
Our first talk in Osijek was with the centre for social work,
where I met some people I learned to know during the earlier
visit. It is obvious that everybody is somehow more relaxed
thanks to the bombfree period, more free from that
everlasting tension, which had them in their hands during the
last months. More than last time the had openly critic on the
government in Zagreb. Zagreb left them in their eyes alone in
solving all the problems and now thinks that they can
organise the return of the displaced people back into the
occupied territories centrally.
One of the things which was new for me, but is more and more
understandable is the fact that people in Osijek, but also in
other parts of the country are afraid for more waves of
refugees from BiH. People are already sitting with their
hands in their hair (as we say in the Netherlands), the
thoughts that app. 500.000 more people will come to f.i.
Eastern Slavonia makes them really panicking. How to solve
the problems. Often you heard a kind of reaction can't they
stay in BiH in the safe parts (if you look at the map you
will find out that safe is very relative, the cities and
villages which are not included in the war can be counted as
it where on one hand).
We decided that the workcamps we would like to have in this
area takes place in a camp near Djakovo, were some days ago
the 1200 refugees from BiH arrived which were held captured
some weeks ago by the "other" side for some time. I think I
wrote about it. In Osijek most refugees are placed in the
houses, which are left by Serbian people or were families
from JNA soldiers lived. Like in the schools, they know that
when more people starts to return to the town this will give
a lot of problems, but for the time being they said that help
in that camp near Djakovo is more needed.
To explain a bit about those houses which are appointed by
the town or any other institution to refugees and displaced
people you have to know that all of that happens more or less
in a time of chaos. It happens more then ones that people
came back and found others living in their house with an
official permission. A problem which will enlarge as the
situation will become more quiet in this region and more
people are coming back. Especially a lot of problems are
happening with those from mixed marriages, f.i. a Croatian
woman married with a JNA soldier from Serbian nationality.
Back at Kathrinas place, at the ninth floor I hear the story
about that grenade which hit her house a month ago when Vesna
T. was phoning with her. It entered the kitchen of her
neighbour, left a hole of app. 1,5 meter and worked his way
through that apartment into the hall, next to elevator. The
night afterwards somebody work his way into Kathrinas
apartment and took everything from value away. Something what
seems to happen regularly in abandoned houses according to
what people talk us.
The political situation in Osijek has also changed over the
last weeks, Glavac, the former head of the defence from
Osijek has appointed himself as head of the town council,
taking all the real power in the city in his own hands.
Glavac belongs to the ultra right wing of HDZ, who consider
Tudjman as a very weak politician and openly criticise his
policy, especially when Tudjman tries to picture the world
that the war is over in Croatia. If it is up to Glavac
Croatia should immediately try to "liberate" the occupied
parts of Croatia by force. In many ways Glavac can be seen as
a local dictator, who has a lot of support from the people.
Especially among those who stayed behind in Osijek to defend
the town. But also among those who left in the first place
and came back later, they compensate their earlier "escape"
with a strong Croatian standpoint, as it were.
During the night the light outside more regularly went out
again and on some moments you hear, also rather close,
explosions, but it were no attack from outside. Since the
bombing has stopped already 2 weeks ago more and more houses
from Serbian inhabitants are blowing up. For Chistine this
was a little hard to get over, but I think after a few nights
in Osijek she will also got "used" to it.
The next day (Friday) we drove (in a nice Yugocar with red
crosses all over and but also with extra ventilation (due to
grenade who went through the door and the side windows) to
Djakovo to see the refugee camp, which is build on one of
former JNA practice places just about 15 Km from the city. A
practice place which is still used by Croatian army by the
way, according to the camp"leader" the explosion we heard
were not from the front, but from practising.
The camp now enough for around 500 people was already
occupied by nearly 1000 mostly Muslim woman and children, 2
weeks ago 1200 arrived, but some were taken away by
relatives. But when the buildings are ready it must be able
to cover the basic needs for around 5000 refugees. It is run
by a staff of 7 people and for the time being they have food
enough, together with us some trucks from "Nachbar in Not"
arrived at the spot, bringing food from Austria and Germany
(around 100 trucks arrived during the weekend at the
different refugees camp, this form of sending food rather
then money is much better to avoid that money is spend on
other things).
The campstaff told that they were a little disappointed by
the participation of the refugees in the running of the camp,
but that story I have heard all over the place (and also in
refugees camps I have been before in other countries). People
are still confused about their situation and can't imagine
that they have to stay for a while in tents, without a clear
future.
Our offer to help them with our workcamps (and even the small
amount of presents I brought with me from gifts we have
recieved) were accepted with a great thanks. It is really a
problem in those camps were over 60% of the population is
under 20 years to find something to do for them. The effect
is that most of the youth starts to become rather aggressive
and the older ones really like to go back as soon as possible
to BiH to fight.
The situation is the camp still far from ideal, as said most
of the sanitairian installation still have to be build, but
everybody is doing what they can. But I must say that I have
to hold my heart (as we say in my country) for the moment
that more people come (back) to this region and more refugees
have to live in the camps for as long as the war last. Now
the summer is coming and most of the live is outside, but in
the winter the situation will be much worst.
In this area, very close to the warzones, you will find every
where the signs of the war, not only is there a massive
amount of soldiers and army machinery, but also everywhere
you see in the small villages houses which are totally
destroyed, mostly by blowing them up with dynamite, since
they were from Serbian inhabitants.
Later that day we went back to Djakovo to meet Vesna J.
parents, she comes from that place. Nevertheless the fact
that also Djakovo was under a lot of alarm, most of the
damages in the town took place during the fight in the autumn
from last year around the JNA buildings. Like all the JNA
barracks the places are full with bullet and grenade whole
and the buildings around it as well. In Djakovo JNA was also
shooting from their barracks at the cathedral a few street
away from their mean barracks, but missed it lucky enough and
the grenade hole can be found in the park behind the
monastery.
Djakovo looks a lot like a huge military camp, everywhere you
go you see soldiers, mostly carrying there guns around,
something we don't see anymore in Zagreb, at least not in the
centre, only around the station. Vesna visit some of the
places she normally went to in her youth, hoping to meet some
of her old friends. But ofcourse a lot were in the army and
not in Djakovo, they were fighting or in BiH or in the region
around Vinkovci and Osijek were the fights have started again
in the smaller villages over the weekend.
I spend most of the evening with her and a guy who just came
back from the front and more or less did not know what to do
next, for the time being he is barman in a pub, but also
would like to go soon to Austria or Germany to make money. He
also just returned and told about his own person to person
fight in which he at least killed one person with his knife.
It is hard to imagine that on most of the hands of the
soldiers in this region there is blood for the rest of their
life. We drink and danced and try to forget the war for some
hours, together with hundreds of soldiers (the discotheek was
nicely painted blue, covered with sandbags in different
nuances of blue, worth a picture if I had a camera).
From Djakovo we went with the parents of Vesna to their
summerhouse, app. 15 km north of Slavonski Brod, a beautiful
peaceful area, with the only peace breaking sound the
explosions of bombs and shooting in Slavonski Brod and some
little towns and villages west from there. The whole day and
night you could hear the thunder sounds, sitting on one of
the hills you even could see the explosions. It is crazy to
sit there and watch woodpeckers in the trees, here an
explosions and turn around and see the smoke coming from over
the hill.
In this area most of the heavy equipment of the Croatian is
pulled together in the woods, waiting for what we think the
final attack on the so-called "occupied" areas. Nobody knows
for sure, but most soldiers I have been talking to said that
they are ready to go and are more or less agree that they
have to wait so long. The UNPROFOR soldiers are more see as
outside intruders who keep them from fighting then as peace
keeping force, they are mostly not agree with the way Zagreb
wants to continue the war and peace talks.
The soldiers in this are are mostly from the occupied
territories and joint the army during the fights in Vukovar.
When I was in one of the houses they used as commando post it
was strange to see how they were drinking and watching
Serbian television (Zagreb HTV is hard to receive in this
area) and telling the civilians about their heroic fights and
their views on the war and the mistakes made by Zagreb. In
this village about 6 or 7 (summer)houses were occupied by
Croatian army in each of them a small group (app. 7 till 8
soldiers) and everywhere cables through the trees for
fieldtelephones. Between the forest app. 250 meter away from
Vesnas parents house a tank bataljon with 7 tanks from all
kind of models (Russian, Yugoslavian and American as far as I
could see and recognise). On each corner a soldier reading
their newspaper, listing to rockmusic from a ghettoblaster
and smoking in their hands automatic riffles. Regularly
shoots echoed through the hills and forests (followed by loud
screams when they wanted to reach somebody which went for a
walk or to piss and didn't came back in time they shoot in
the air and cry their name).
The citizens from this little villages are not so happy with
those soldiers in thier region, to get them out they higher
up the price for home brand brandy and wine, but this is
normal reaction for small villages, which are nowhere in the
world so happy with strangers and this village was never
under attack.
Even the normal people in this are are sleeping with the gun
next to their bed, since often in the months before small
groups of Chetnik forces were seen in the villages. Among
most of those soldiers HOS is very popular, from all the
political parties they (HSP, HOS mother party) is the only
one who say the true in their eyes. They say that HOS just is
honest, they say they are going to fight and they are
fighting, they others sell the country to safe their skin
abroad and make a lot of money. Especially the fact that
Tudjman organised for himself (and for the Presidents after
him as he said) an luxes aeroplane, house on the same island
as the summer house of Tito and other things are seen as a
direct hit in their face.
After a very tiring trainride, the train was overfull, the
next day we came back in Zagreb and found a lot of bills
which have to be paid soon, it is back to normal again. When
we turn on the news on television we were back in the
reality, Sarajevo was a little quiet today and yesterday, the
pictures showed the mass destroction of the twon. The BiH
forces are busy to "liberate" airport themselfs, since they
are tired waiting for the solution via UNPROFOR and the food
convoy which reached the city couldn't bring their food to
the places in the town which are still under attack from the
hills. But it looks if the situation is changing, the news
said that at least one of the hills was now under the control
of BiH army.
pnmi...@igc.org
From: <pnmideast>
Subject: Zagreb Diary
/* Written 9:53 pm Jun 15, 1992 by gn:wamkat in cdp:yugo.antiwar */
/* ---------- "Zagreb Diary" ---------- */
Subject: Zagreb Diary
Zagreb Diary
15-06-1992
Dear Friends,
Today I recieved the second part of my diary after Jim Forest
went over it with his editing knowledge and I must admit it is
a lot better this way then I ever could write it, again he did
a fantastic job. But even with all his knowledge my material
never ever can become a similar story as the book "Being
Peace"from the North Vietnamish monk Thich Nhat Hanh
(published by Parallax Press, P.O.BOX 7355, Berkeley, Ca
94707, USA), I am so glad that I took it with me, since it
give relief for all my thoughts. In Sittard it lays for month
on my computer, without me having the time to really read and
understand it (I got it on my birthday in November from
Robert, an other world traveller, who had his nest for some
weeks in my home town).
Nevertheless you may know the book or you may getting to know
this book I like to take a part out of it, it is for me a
relief that I am not one of the only ones who seems to be
thinking different. Now it becomes more and more clear that a
military intervention from the UN will not come fast and it
even seems that Croatia and BiH are adopting that reality and
try to "liberate" their countries themselves, still the
discussion about yes or no military intervention is in the
air. When I was looking for a argument which could strengthen
my thoughts I opened the book on a page which is probably the
best answer on my question. Thich Nhat Hanh lives in exile in
France and receive a lot of letters from refugees from all
over the world, one of this letters was about a girl from 12
years old, who was raped by a Thai pirate, after it happens
she jumped into the Ocean and drowned herself.
"When you first learn of something like that, you get angry at
the pirate. You naturally take the side of the girl. As you
look more deeply you will see it differently. If you take the
side of the little girl, then it is easy. You only have to
take a gun and shoot the pirate. But we cannot do that. In my
meditation I saw that I had been born in the village of the
pirate and raised in the same conditions as he was, I am now
the pirate. ....... I saw that many babies are born along the
Gulf of Siam, hundreds every day, and if we educators, social
workers, politicians, and other do not do something about this
situation, in 25 years a number of them will become sea
pirates.....If you take a gun and shoot the pirate, you shoot
all of us, because all of us are to some extent responsible
for this state of affairs."
I have to admit that it is hard to think the same way when
300.000 people in Sarajevo are involved, but I still like to
try to keep my mind concentrated on this text. Even after
seeing the warzones again and spending days together with
people who lost everything they had and lots of them even
their closed families (1 out of each seventh refugee has lost
(killed or disappeared) one or more relatives. according to
some small research done in the camp were I was).
In such surroundings it is hard to keep your neutrality high,
but I have learned never to start a discussion about what
people tell me, other then saying that I try to stay neutral
if they ask me were I stand in all this. If people don't ask I
am not trying to start a talk about. When they ask it is early
enough and mostly I have build up some type of trust already.
What can I do otherwise then listing to their stories. Even
when those stories are pure war stories, including their own
personal hero story in which they explain in detail how they
killed personally one or more Chetniks (this is the word they
use, not me). If you see the trembling and the drinking you
know that the reality behind all those brave stories is
different. It is often a fight to survive out there between
the lines. Where sometimes two centimetres to the left or
right is deciding about dead or life.
How brave the soldiers may be, even the young ones, the last
days I often talked with boys which were not even 20 years
old, calling themselves professional killers, (it stroked my
mind that if I was there ages and would have wanted they could
have been my children), sitting behind there playing with
their guns on their lap, watching with a half eye the same
American and English music clips as there Serbian counterparts
(since they were broadcasted by Beograd television) telling
how the "escape" from JNA barracks in Serbia and fought their
way through the lines to Croatia and now are willing to give
their lives for their country.
If you asked them what their future will look like most of
those younger soldiers say that they will stay in the army,
the older ones mostly answer that they return back to their
work, after having "liberated" it. If you travel through the
country and see all the former JNA barracks you often get the
feeling that this country lived closely with their army,
before the war there were according to the statistic around
80.000 JNA officers, but that number gets more alive when you
see all those small cities were JNA had their barracks and
were in the autumn of last year heavy street fights took
place.
Were all those weapons came from is for me still a miracle, it
is known that JNA took all the weapons from the territorial
defence groups in the villages and towns when the tension were
raising. But the stories a legio about local "heroes" like
Glavac in Osijek, who made strong speeches to attack the JNA
barracks and provided dozens of untrained youngsters with
weapons in order to attack the barracks. One of the reasons
that Osijek hospital is so damaged and later on more hospitals
around the country is probably because of the fact that in
those days, especially on local level this unorganised attacks
also came from the hospitals. Not many people in Osijek will
admit it, but some do, but the JNA barracks were shot at from
the hospital (which is just on the other side of the street).
This is ofcourse no argument for shooting at hospitals and
even ambulances, but it explain at least something of this
madness (even if it is hard to understand).
For those who like to know about the cathedral of Osijek, good
news, the end of this week there will be a big International
benefit concert in Zagreb to gather many to repair the
cathedral. And when I walk around it the other day it look not
that damaged as I thought in the first places, I think that
most of the damaged can easily been repaired (with some help
of good restauration experts (from abroad)).
My nationalism should be high at this moment, since on the
television they are broadcasting the football match between
the Netherlands and CIS (or what is the name for the
commonwealth of most of the former USSR). But they only thing
what I think is funny is to hear the name of all those Dutch
guys pronounced in a way I never heard it before.
Tomorrow it is poster making day again, more and more groups
are asking to design posters for them, so if not soon money
will come another way I should start to ask money for it. It
is stupid that every day that I can't pay my telephone bill
from May I have to pay 1% extra tax, which is ofcourse used
for things I absolute disagree with, but what can you do,
pnmi...@igc.org
From: <pnmideast>
Subject: Zagreb Diary
/* Written 2:58 am Jun 18, 1992 by gn:wamkat in cdp:yugo.antiwar */
/* ---------- "Zagreb Diary" ---------- */
Subject: Zagreb Diary
Zagreb Diary
16/17-06-1992
Dear Friends,
A little dizzy from too much work the last days, spend now
nearly 15 hours in a row on a poster series "Adolescenti u
ratu" (Adolescents in War) after an idea and together Jasenka
Pregrad, she wrote the text and search the pictures together.
Her idea is to get money from some institution to make a
better lay-out and print it in a huge amount to hang it in
all schools and places where young people come. It give a
overview of the extra problems people between 12 and 17 year
have and what kind of influences a war and experience of
violence, staying in the shelters can have on them.
We all went through that ages and we all can more or less
remember how "difficult" it was. Here this ages is really out
of the world, they are not children from whom there is more
and more special care, they are no soldiers (some of the
girl ofcourse have boyfriends at the front) or workers.
Those boys who got somehow involved in the battles in the
first days, weeks of the war, but were and are now still
under 17, the minimum ages to become a soldier in Croatian
Army (not in HOS) are lost for schools, if they come back
from the fighting and return to school, they will anyway
leave after some days of weeks, since there reality is at the
front and not in the classroom anymore. I will ask Jasenka to
translate there poster one day in English, anyway it was such
a day that you better could stay in bed since everything
technical went wrong.
The photos were to dark the scan, or with Tito on and should
be retouched otherwise they would be read, the character type
I use had no ctj, stj or dj (those special signs), I ran out
of white paper and the ribbon of my printer is out, so we
decided to print anyway on some laser printer, but all I know
in Zagreb are connected with Macintosh and I use DOS, so the
only way we can exchange files is via postscript or so-called
tiff file, my PageMaker file can't be read since they have
other fonts, and those special file were over 2 megabyte, so
I could not get them on cassette and so I went on. In between
I visit Vukovar Hotel, make a poster for some Ljubljana
meditation centre and recieved many mail and telephone calls.
Just such a day. But my computer is still complete so I
didn't lost my nerves, but feel my back.
In Vukovar Hotel (so nick named because most of the first and
last refugees from Vukovar life there or across the street in
a school) we heard that the Vukovar refugees probably have to
leave Zagreb soon. They like to rent the Hotel to UNPROFOR
and the refugees have to back to Eastern Slavonia. And there
I just heard 3 days that more refugees and displaced people
would only increase the already chaotic situation (there is
enough food and medicines, but tents, houses, sanitairian
facilities, cooks, building material, experienced teachers,
relief people are short).
That it is UNPROFOR, which is moving half there HQ from
Beograd to Zagreb, which is half half co responsible for the
moving of the Vukovar refugees give us some hilarities, to
say at the latest. Most heard was the joke that UNPROFOR
moves out of Beograd, since they learn from Sarajevo and want
at least half of their HQ out before Beograd gets to hot.
The people in Vukovar Hotel, however want to stay and most of
them are ready to fight the police if that would be
necessary. The date that this is going to happen will not
before the end of the school year half way next month, since
most 60% of them still have to go to school.
The 500 refugees which camped more or less on the station are
not yet related with Zagreb and there fore they were send
today to the refugees camp in Djakovo, which I visit and
already is far beyond there capacity. But also those refugees
protested and the police was still trying to get them in the
buses is the last news I have heard, on this moment in the
middle of the night they are probably on their way to
Djakovo.
So on the one hand I am praying for rain so the shelling in
Sarajevo and other parts of BiH and Croatia will not be so
big and has less damaging power and for the other side I am
praying that it is sunny for the tens of thousand sin the
refugees camps. There is hardly not enough shelter against
the rain. And a lot, at least in Eastern Slavonia are very
near to the frontline.
It is a weird weird country. In Beograd things are also
happening. I hope that Eric has no problems passing to border
and find a place to stay for some months easily since the
news can more hopeful. On HTV we had the announcement that
the Serbian King, who is strongly against the war, will go to
Beograd and will join the peace actions. Not that the
Chetniks of today have still such an adoration for him as the
Chetniks which they were called after in the second world
war. Those earlier ones really love the king and let there
beard and hair grow until he would come back (Chetniks in
Croatians newspapers cartoons are still drawn as long haired,
beardy older men).
If it wasn't true officially some weeks ago it is clear now
there is a military cooperation or federation between Croatia
and BiH. President Izetbegovic has declared that Croatian
army is under they command of BiH government and on strict
permission of the government in Sarajevo.
The young guy from Baja Luka who is here and was able go
before the closing of Serbia by plane via Beograd and Vienna
and from there per train to Zagreb, a 2 days, rather the the
5 hours per car, which was normal before the war, I have
heard that it is still relative calm in Banja Luka. But since
the telephone line broke last week he can't talk with his
parents anymore (8 days now), they were anyway used for
strange connections by telephone to Zagreb, during the winter
they had to call a number in Split to get connections to
Zagreb.
The cosmetic cleaning of Zagreb continues, very slowly you
see part by part over the last 6 weeks that the monument for
the victims on the main square is disappearing. First the
flags from the EC and Germany and then the flag from
Macedonia, then BiH and Croatia. Than the boards with texts
and slogans (they reappear after the grenade attack which
killed 20 people in Sarajevo for a few days), than most of
the candles and now it really look tiny.
Also the little market stands (where you could by Croatian,
BiH, football and UN flags and all kind of Croatian, army and
Utachi souvenirs) next to the main square are removed from
there, and only one is left over around the corner so he is
out of the general pedestrian traffic and site.
Pedestrian traffic on and around the main square is more full
then normal since they are working on the tram road at the
main square, were all the major trams pass and all people
have to walk from tramstops around the real centre of town.
That they are now working on that tram road and not during
the summer holidays is a little strange. It really looks like
a part of the election campaing. In July there are maybe
elections (Tudjman promised so some time ago), since
everywhere there are now poster where to registrat yoursleves
in able to vote.
The work on the tramline however makde a lot of teachers
angry, who have to life from next to nothing and would an
higher payment (many good researchers are leaving the
country, abroad is a lot better paid) and are going on strike
somewhere next week, just in the period of the general
exames. Even some students are getting angry since they react
from a standpoint that the government obvious thinks that
other things are more important than their education. If
those tensions raise we soon are going to get the same
pictures here as in Beograd.
With Love and Peace from Zagreb,
Wam:-)
P.s. thanks by the way to all their in the states who are
helping Joel with his trip to Zagreb and the help and support
he will bring with him, I follow very promising Email
conversations.
P.s. I had a real heavy discussion tonight about the thesis
that neutralism leads more often to pro Serbian than to pro
Croatia radiation. Most Western peace activists neutral in a
way that it could be interpretated that besides the
destruction of a lot of villages and cities in facto not
really happens, some how it is just a tribal war, you know
(with bow and arrows and some rusty kalecnichov). It is of we
even in the side of the warzone hope that all of these is
just a nightmare which hit this country and nobody is
responsible. Notice that I am watching my words. In circles
of Croatian intelectuals there was circling a plan last year
to oropose an international commision of judges to arrest and
punish a list of persons within the whole of former
Yugoslavia, which should be arrested to avoid further
killing. In their eyes that would have been enough. I feel
often offended during such talks, trying to picture the
situation from the west if you look throug western televison
pictures to this war. Judge yourself.
pnmi...@igc.org
From: <pnmideast>
Subject: Zagreb Diary
/* Written 1:24 pm Jun 20, 1992 by gn:wamkat in cdp:yugo.antiwar */
/* ---------- "Zagreb Diary" ---------- */
Subject: Zagreb Diary
Zagreb Diary
19-06-1992
Dear Friends,
Time flies, but not a description of Zagreb or surroundings
today, but I question I have in my head already for a long
time. I don't know if you know what it means walking on eggs.
If you want to survive as peace activists in these countries
for a longer time you must be a good juggler, since 90% of
the time you are walking on eggs or at the border of a
vulcan. One mistake and you are burned.
But before I continue let me present a few facts, which
everybody should know and most know, but I notice from some
questions that their are somehow overlooked in the papers.
Slovenia, Croatia, Macedonia, BiH and New-Yugoslavia (Serbia
and Montenegro) are separate countries now. There is NO war
in Slovenia and Macedonia, the is WAR in Croatia ((Eastern
Slavonia, on the Sava front and in Dalmatia) (Istria, Zagreb
and surroundings is absolute free from any danger)) and in
BiH (all over the country), starts of WAR in Kosovo (which
lays within Serbia). Per day an average of about 50 persons
are dying around the different battlefields. A few hundred
thousands are near to starvation. Around 1.500.000 refugees
from the different former joint republics flooded around in
this area and to western Europe. Let us start a small history
story how this happened in the last 18 months.
When ever abroad two people from former Yugoslavia explain
what happens they get words about what happened (during a
public meeting with interested people), it would be good to
start a discussion to draw up a both side agreeable framework
of what really cold happened. Just to find out what people
felt in a different period. It is possible that this book
ends in 3 or more colons describing the same period from 3
different sides. I will ask people from ARK to write their
view on the last 18 months as "neutral" as they can.
It depends a lot how you choose your words in which situation
if you are accepted or not. I said it some days before
Croatia has the image to be fascistic and nationalistic. At
least wasn't that part of your feeling. Somehow those bloody
Croats provoked the war by standing around the JNA barracks
months ago. If they would have moved from there, if the peace
movement would have been stronger, the war never would be so
cruel as it is now. But those stupid Croats are so
nationalistic, those fools. It would be a good question what
let to it. And why was the more or less ethnical cleaning of
the Croatian policeforce in the winter of 1990 necessary. And
why let the Croatian government neo-nazis walking around
freely. Why could Paraga openly ask for money for arms and
volunteers in German among Croatians workers.
Or should you asked why did Serbian extremist killed 12
Croatian policeman last year, why did JNA give weapons to the
Serbian republic of Krajina and why was it possible that
people as Seselj and Arkan act in public without getting
arrested already for a longer period than Paraga was active
in Croatia. How was it possible that Chetniks could destroy
Vukovar or did they just liberated it. Etc. Etc.
I am walking on eggs, why am I in Zagreb, surrounded by
nationalists if I can be in Beograd in the neighbourhood of
students who make world history. There in Beograd it is
happening, but I stay in Zagreb.
Somehow there is a big difference how the west "neutrals" are
looking upon things in these countries. All the ARK activists
who went abroad have made the same experience, they are seen
as nationalist, even those who still have a Yugoslavian
passport and refuse to registrate themself as Croat (even
when that cost them their rights to vote). In Zagreb there
are no big demonstrations with candles or from the students
like in Beograd.
We have ofcourse a well organised protest against Milosovic
and the war fought by JNA and Chetniks (like the students in
Beograd), but here that protest is done by the government,
the army and the whole propaganda machinery, the whole
country is against Milosovic and the War. The protests
against Tudjman and the activities of Croatian and Utachi
(HOS) forces (the equalise everything) are rather small, and
unheard abroad, but they are there, more and more, from the
left until, as far as it concerns Tudjman, the ultra right
wing.
Ones more you come to the point that Peace activists in a
country under attack are in a different position then those
in a country from which an forces come who attack an under
country or countries. If we condemn from Zagreb the
activities from JNA and Chetnik forces, we as peace activists
are seen as nationalistic, we should not condemn the "enemy",
but those forces who fight in the name of the country you are
in.
So we in Zagreb have to fight against Croatian Army and
Utachi (HOS). But especially in the Croatian Army there are a
lot soldiers who are tired and like to go home, they don't
want to fight, they went to the front to protect civilian
unarmed people (and that could be anybody, not only Croats)
from getting slaughtered.
Ofcourse JNA soldiers and even Chetniks also for a great part
went to fight to protect Serbians in Croatia and BiH from
getting slaughtered by Utachi and other Croatian Nationalists
or Muslim fundamentalists.
Now in Beograd people go on the streets and say stop it, we
see no reason to fight. And I can tell you the whole of
Croatia (except maybe from some small minorities) are
supporting there struggle, no thoughts about that.
With Love and Peace from Zagreb,
Wam:-)
P.S. The planned concert with Public Enemy in Ljubljana was
cancelled the morning that it would be held. The reason in
the beginning was that one of the members broke his leg, but
today the real reason came out, they, Public Enemy, were
afraid of war. At least that is the rumour, I hope that the
real reason is that P.E. didn't one to play in a country,
which use to belong to a bigger federation, in which in one
of the republics people get daily killed. Not that they were
afraid, but that they thought it is not ethical top play here
as long as there are fight in BiH. I sincerely hope it is
that way, otherwise if the pictures from Sarajevo scared them
off they have made themself a few public enemies around the
place. The is NO WAR in Slovenia, the nearest battle field
from Ljubljana is a few hundred kilometres away, Sarajevo is
about 500 kilometres. People really saw them as a band which
expressed their feelings and was close to them, not afraid of
saying the truth and to stand for it. If they didn't came
since they were afraid to demoralised a lot of their most
devoted fans in these countries.
P.s. With my brother, who is a travelling juggler I made the
appointment that he and his friends come to Croatia in late
August and make a tour with their bus around the different
refugees camps and play their. They are not famous, but we
think it is going to be great. We hope it can be the
beginning of a flow of unknown bands, theatre groups, street
artists and so on to come to these parts of the world and do
some relief work here. Like the Jugglers for Peace did in
Nicaragua.
pnmi...@igc.org
From: <pnmideast>
Subject: Zagreb Diary
/* Written 9:35 am Jun 19, 1992 by gn:wamkat in cdp:yugo.antiwar */
/* ---------- "Zagreb Diary" ---------- */
Subject: Zagreb Diary
Zagreb Diary
18-06-1992
Dear Friends,
I am curious what is happening in my hometown and area at this
moment, I am watching with an half eye the football match
between Germany and the Netherlands and the Netherlands seem
to win. Normally there are already some nice fights between
people in this area after each football game between the two,
so at this moment probably the television teams have come down
to Limburg from Hilversum and waiting for things to happen.
Yesterday we had the news that in the Gaza strip Palestinians
demonstrated against the war in BiH and today a chief of the
Dakota indians visits Zagreb and goes to the coast to look for
the place to do their first international investment (up to
now their Casinos only invested within their on Dakota
nation). Together with the Former Governor of Minnesota (who
is from Croatian origin) he visit today the father from all
Croats (as the Chief from the Dakotas said), Dr. Franjo
Tudjman. Furthermore they met with INA (the National
oilconcern) and some other major companies.
In fact yesterday evening after hearing that news from the
Gaza strip we already joked about that the indians would be
the next ones who do something symbolic. But that was without
knowing that it in fact already was happening. Ofcourse this
kind of investment aid is not passing through ARK, but goes
via the national institutions. Still as I wrote the Green in
the European Parliament earlier today it would be good to
build up a short of Green Fund to coordinate ecological sound
investments within Croatia and other by war destroyed
countries.
Ofcourse when we joked about it we didn't had in mind that the
indians would send this kind of help. We are not talking about
small scale touristic projects here but multi million
investments, with all problems involved. The speech of the
Indian chief was more a commercial for capitalist free
enterprise, then for capture of spiritual values. But it is
still wonderful that the more or less undepended Dakota
country is going to invest for the first time outside their
nationality in Croatia. Especially now after the symbolic 500
years the Indians are going to help the white men who are in
tribal (as the Africans named this war) war.
We are now waiting what the Maori's , Sami's, Aboriginal's,
Eskimo's, Punans and all those other folks will do, nothing
would amaze me now anymore. Probably catholic Limburg (my home
area) will start an action Limburg helps Zagoria through the
winter or something like that. Bavaria and Friesland also make
a change here, and the Catalans can ofcourse bring there
touristic knowledge. And there are a lot more links possible
to imagine.
This really give the feeling were is big Europe and where are
those huge peace demonstration in Amsterdam, Berlin,
Bruxelles, Paris, why do the students in those city not
organise support actions for there colleques in Beograd. There
actions can be the start of a change and they seems
determinate to continue. It would help them a lot to know that
the world is with them. They are the ones who maybe can stop
the war sooner and without military intervention, you never
know. The pictures we receive via HTV are a lot like the
protest in the 60'ties. But also like the students action
shortly ago in former CSFR.
There actions are not without danger, it is not Amsterdam or
Kobenhavn, but a country at war. And when the police gets the
order to clean it up it will certainly not be done peaceful.
Via the EYFA (European Youth Forest Action) office in Freiburg
Germany we received a fax from Zorica from the Centre for Anti
War Actions in Beograd. It is a pitty that they can't connect
up with APC directly since their stories are at this moment
more interesting to read then mine from Zagreb. However they
have all equipment (modem and computer) and when Eric goes
there will be solved if there are any technical problems.
According to her fax it is not only the universities who are
now protesting (in nearly all faculties in Beograd and Nic),
but also the church held a procession against the war and
taxidrivers protested against the new policy of the Beograd
government towards their profession. The Taxi drivers had
blockades in the city and shooting at them from Seseljs men
(this was at the 11th of June). Prices in Beograd are now
raising faster then in Zagreb, some things are already missing
in the shops and appearing on the black market (mainly because
some people with money bought them all to make more money).
We will discus in ARK to send some solidarity messages to them
in Beograd. I am wondering what will happen when the actions
of the teachers start here. I will try to follow the news from
Beograd closely, since there is really something happening.
The news from Sarajevo stays the same, heavy fights and
shelling. Today an other foreign journalist was wounded by
snipers and her report (copied from CNN to HTV) was remarkable
"it is a sad, sad war,....People are waiting until the world
reacts....". The "liberation" of the airfield is still not
done, UNPROFOR was shoot at yesterday and had already some
problems getting into the city. Picture on HTV from other part
of BiH show that the fights have been really bad, the country
is very destroyed. We hope that there is a way that the
pictures we see on HTV are getting through to Sarajevo as
well, since most of the line with the rest of BiH from
Sarajevo are broken.
Monday a whole delegation from 10 persons from the European
Greens will come by to visit some of the refugees camps, so we
have to organise a lot of things for them, which will make a
hard working day tomorrow. It is not that easy to find empty
spaces in Hotels. And make appointments on short notice, but
we will manage.
With Love and Peace from Zagreb,
Wam:-)
p.s. the refugees from the station are brought to Djakovo, but
new have already arrived.
pnmi...@igc.org
From: <pnmideast>
Subject: Zagreb Diary
/* Written 4:20 pm Jun 21, 1992 by gn:wamkat in cdp:yugo.antiwar */
/* ---------- "Zagreb Diary" ---------- */
Subject: Zagreb Diary
Zagreb Diary
21-06-1992
Dear Friends,
The officer from the UNPROFOR troops in Sarajevo has given
yesterday another interview for France television, what he
said was clear: "We as UNPROFOR are only here to monitor the
cease-fire, and today there was no cease-fire to monitor"
Indeed yesterday in Sarajevo 29 people died (in BiH as a
whole more then 50), according BiH television, and another
humanitarian transport was shoot at.
"And today there was no cease-fire to monitor" it could have
been a title of a book. There is a cease-fire in Croatia
since the 3th of January, the 15th cease-fire agreement, made
up in Sarajevo. We know what that means, yesterday 50
grenades hit Dubrovnik again. The attacks on Osijek in the
beginning of last month were the hardest since the beginning
of the war. On Slavonski Brod bombs are still doing their
destructive job, still it is a cease-fire in Croatia.
UNPROFOR will take over the control in sector West of
Croatia, JNA will have to move out this region before the end
of next week, the remaining sectors South and North will come
under UNPROFOR's control before the end of the month. But in
the sector East, which is under full UNPROFOR control now, it
may be quiet in Osijek and Vinkovci, but in their
surroundings there is still fightings going on, "So is there
a cease-fire to monitor".
"And today there was no cease-fire to monitor" it means that
UNPROFOR will stay put in their shelters in Sarajevo until
all parties will keep their fire for at least 48 hours in
order for UNPROFOR to take position at the airport. Already 2
weeks ago humanitarian aid transport were hold since they
airport could be open soon. Two weeks later we have
officially WAR in BiH and still no major relief for the
starving citizens of Sarajevo.
Mostar, which is "liberated" by Croatian forces some day ago
is now a big part of the news with fill the screens, but from
all the television pictures I have seen so far a five minute
shot I have seen in Djakovo on Beograd television was the
most horrible one. It was a report from a massacre done by
"Utachi" in a small town north of Sarajevo. I will keep the
details away, but it remind me a lot on my previous
occupation in the meat-factory.
It reminds me on a story of a friend from us who went the
other day to the Islamic centre in Zagreb to get
photomaterial in order to put up a help action in the CSFR.
She went their and the only pictures they had were from
castrated Moslem man. According for here opinion much too
hard to show in the rest of the world. "And today there was
no cease-fire to monitor".
The Islamic centre has stopped their activities to collect
and spread news from BiH and we lost a major source of
information that way. The relief the have to give to refugees
from BiH and the organisation of relief transports is on the
other hand on this moment more important. They are the right
channel, since a lot of the relief from abroad comes out the
Islamic world.
Public Enemy's concert seems to be indeed cancelled because
of the fact that they were afraid for war after seeing the
picture of Sarajevo on television. It had a much harder
influence on some friends than I thought in the first place.
Some are already down for some days, not understanding that
those guys in which they could recognise so much were afraid
of something were they went through. I think it would be good
when Public Enemy dedicate the profits of one of there
upcoming concerts totally for rebuilding youth project in
former Yugoslavia, otherwise they really destroyed the hope
of some people. Nevertheless "No more heroes anymore" from
the Stranglers there are still some heroes left.
One of these upcoming heroes in Croatia is still Paraga, he
is also becoming more and more popular around the main-stream
of the population, now most of his soldiers within Croatia
are not wearing their uniforms on the street and the others
are fighting in BiH and some other frontlines he gets more
the imagine of a respected politicians. Still surrounding by
an uniformed group of body-guards, but still so is Tudjman
and some others. He claims to be the only politicians which
says what he thinks and does what he says.
People from who you think that they are intellectuals and
able to see beyond cheap propaganda surprise me by saying
that they think of voting Paraga next time. He is so extreme,
so that will makes things clear. And the opposition is so
divided, they are powerless. This is really alarming, since
Tudjman may be right wing, he is not a dictator, he is under
much pressure ofcourse from western Europe, but still in many
way moderate. If you compare it with the simplicity of
Paraga, who is a much more clever talker and a catalisator of
unsaid feelings of a huge amount of the Croats. Even when
that don't means that they are fully agree with all his
opinions and operations.
Other politicians are too much fighting in words and about
commas and after nearly a year of war and years of economical
decrease people are fed up with words and difficult answers.
They want strong politicians who has make up their mind and
say what they are going to do and do it. It would also mean
that ARK must have a strong priority on fighting against
upcoming neo-nazism.
Vesna J. and I had a long talk yesterday evening and this
morning about the future of ARK and the place peace-activists
have in Croatia. When the whole world is looking at Sarajevo
and Beograd as middle points of the war a lot of things are
also happening beyond the frontlines in the politics of e.g.
Croatia. It is easy to become nationalistic in Croatia, and
so build up a lot of excuses for things which are happening.
Half of the world is in fever of a military intervention, but
Croatia already is involved in the fights in Croatia for a
long time now (if all those soldiers come back with all the
new experiences they made, who knows).
What makes it more complex is that a lot of the HOS soldiers,
even those who are fighting in Croatian army, and only member
of the HSP (the political party), are for a big deal Croatian
immigrants from Hercegovina. In many stories from BiH and
from Slavonia you will hear that those were the first who
came to fights and can always be found in the frontlines.
Those people were colonised in the fifties from the poor
areas of Hercegovina to the big cities in Croatia and
Slavonia. They took the places of the German minority which
was through out of the country by the partisans in and after
the second world war.
"A train without timeschedule" (a film made some ten years
ago as I can recall him) that is symbolic for this part of
Europe. It is if you have a big part of the population who
never had any time to build roots in the area they lived.
Generation after generation they were moved around in these
regions. And that goes on for ages.
But we have to keep our eyes open in Croatia, in this
cocktail I wrote in the first week fascism can be grow out to
something really big, and it seems it is happening. Stopping
the war is maybe one priority, but warning and "fighting"
against fascism is another thing, what should stand high on
our agenda. Even when Croatia already has the name that it is
fascistic, it should not prevent us from expressing that
reality to the world, even when Croats here and abroad feel
offended by it and think we spread the wrong picture from
Croatia.
Maybe we somehow paint the picture a little to big, then
let's be glad it is not the reality.
"And today there was no cease-fire to monitor"
With Love and Peace from Zagreb,
Wam:-)
p.s. please don't forget our refugees.
pnmi...@igc.org
From: <pnmideast>
Subject: Zagreb Diary
/* Written 12:11 pm Jun 21, 1992 by gn:wamkat in cdp:yugo.antiwar */
/* ---------- "Zagreb Diary" ---------- */
Subject: Zagreb Diary
Zagreb Diary
20-06-1992
Dear Friends,
The biggest news from today is the WAR declaration from BiH,
President Izetbegovic has declare the war today, against whom
was not clear, but it is the first country in former
Yugoslavia which officially declared war. None of the other
ever did it. The declaration of War means that there is now a
total mobilisation is BiH, those who have been not mobilised
yet will be mobilised soon, that is if they are not already
fighting as volunteer in one of the fighting groups.
I don't know how it came that I forgot the write it, but it
has been on my mind already for some time to write about it.
Some month ago I wrote about free and less freer press in
Croatia. I wrote that the only more or less undepended
weekly was called "Danas". "Danas" was busy to get the same
status as "Slobodna Dalmacija", that is the only undepended
daily (from Split), namely that the share of the paper would
be bought by the makers of the papers from the government who
is owning now all the papers.
Somehow "Slobodna Dalmacija" was able to make this change
somewhere last year. "Danas" also applied for this
possibility and found funds to keep on producing, but somehow
the state couldn't (wouldn't) decided if and how this
privatisation process should be continued, the new law on
privatisation is totally different then before, and the new
agency for restructuring has all power at the moment.
The people who financially back up "Danas" over the last
period stop there support and the journalist from "Danas"
decided to stop the production of their newspaper after it
was clearly said in the parliament by the government that
they would have any problem with their privatisation, but
still it didn't went through. On this moment it is already 3
weeks ago that the last "Danas" came out and in many ways
that means that Zagreb has lost it only "left-wing" opinion
newspaper.
Rumours that Tudjman closed down "Danas" are with other words
not true. Indirectly the whole acting of the state and her
institutions brought the journalist from "Danas" to stop it
themselves, but the government never officially forbid the
production of "Danas". Also a fact is that "Danas", even as
state newspaper, was already for a long time next to
bankruptcy, it had a hard time getting thought the winter
(not only it was any way hard to sell newspaper to people in
shelters (as well as producing them under those conditions)
as well the government started a campaign against them
(calling them a yugo-communist newspaper)), but in principle
"Danas" is a s popular in Croatia as "Vreme" is in Serbia
(since the boycott no new "Vreme" came through to Zagreb and
we only can read Vreme Digest in English).
A discussion which is filling up a lot of our time, and not
only the time of peace group in former Yugoslavia, but also
outside is the standpoint development about yes or no
military intervention. In former Yugoslavia only the groups
in Sarajevo are very clear about it, they are in fever of
military intervention, but they are in fever of any other
solution which could stop the bloodshed as well (military
intervention is the only solution they can think of at the
moment). Ljubljana has declared themselves yesterday in the
person of Marko clearly against it (after being tempted to be
in fever of it for some weeks, Marko's remarks on it you can
find in Yugo.Antiwar), Beograd, we don't really know what the
group is thinking (no contact, otherwise then meetings
abroad), Skopje unreachable for us, and Zagreb still in
discussion, but most people are turning back to the original
declaration of ARK, in which it is stated clearly that
Violence never can be the solution.
My position is been clear all the time, I am against any type
of military intervention and I think that the whole
discussion about it is in a wrong context. People here and
abroad are discussion the guideline within military
intervention could take place. It is not only here a basic
discussion, but also the basics of the tasks peace groups in
countries of war think they have. In a world were nearly
everybody calls for military solutions (including foreign
intervention) for any part of the conflicts should the peace
movement than actively support a discussion military
intervention yes but under such and such conditions and
without this and this rules. More or less a short of
specifying for a special region what the rules of Geneva
means. I have been here now nearly 3 months in a row and I
can tell the Geneva convention don't exist in war time. At
the battle fields split seconds are changing the decisions,
no long political debates can stop a field commander to go
over a line when he is under a certain stress. Being at the
battle fields is different than in the congress rooms, you
know.
Ofcourse I can have this special position since I am not
bound in anyway with the people in BiH, I have no relatives
over there. I am and will stay for ever a stranger, a
westerner. But I am not the only one here who advocate the
finding of other solutions. We often discuss the most crazy
nonviolent options (jamming communication, putting sleeping
gas over Sarajevo, dropping 1 million peace activists in the
region, etc.) and we will keeping doing that.
Let me tell you one more think today, and that I may have
sounded a little down in the last days, weeks. I noticed that
some people got that feeling. I am not, I live my live and my
reality is a little different from most of yours. But Zagreb
is a nice peaceful city, with blossoming flower and birds in
the trees. The amount of uniforms on the streets is
decreasing and most of the signs of war has been removed over
the last weeks (months). I enjoy life the way it is and I am
very glad to be here.
Even when I was tempted this week to go to Beograd, to be
part of world history over there, I decided to stay put in
Zagreb. There is a lot of work to be done here. One of the
things I will work on some more when Joel has arrived is free
media, now "Danas" is gone this issue is getting more and
more necessary. We have so our ideas and maybe we will
realise them. In this environment everything is possible.
People, who earn 100 Dm a month have not much the loose and a
lot to struggle for.
With Love and Peace from Zagreb,
Wam:-)
P.s. please try to find volunteers for us for our workcamps,
I get a little bit the feeling that we will not get enough
people to help from abroad. By aware there is no war in those
areas were the camp are, it is about as safe as being in New
York or Washington.