Languages: definition I

[Nenad Antonic]

I would like to continue the discussion on this bboard,
after some conclusion has been reached that we can be imprecise
in our arguments a bit, but not to use that freedom for unjustified
accusations, that are practically insults - in such cases much more
sensitivity is necessary.

This post is motivated by Jure's post: `counseling and
counselors'[ma...@edison.seas.ucla.edu (Jure Marn)]. I think that
this gives new steam for, maybe, a more fruitful discussion.

I do not agree with Jure's stands (i.e. what is the true
meaning after taking the irony off) -- I still do believe that
some common country would be a better way of living than a total
separation. Of course, not ANY kind of common living, but one that
we would all accept and find preferable. If it turns out that such
a thing is impossible, a peaceful divorce is the best solution.

So, let us try to open the list of topics. The problems are
difficult, and on some of them I have not yet developed a precise
stand. I shall try to start with the topic (a):

what language will be official language of Yugoslavia? So far
I did not meet *one single* Yugoslav foreign officer willing to talk
with me in Slovenian (unless they were from Slovenia themselves).
And although I was learning Serbo-Croatian (sorry folks, that was an
official course name) in school for four years I am not willing to
talk to people whom I pay through the taxes in any language but
my own. Does it mean that 1) I don't get the help I need or
2) our new government officials will have to speak at least
Macedonian, Serbo-Croatian and Slovenian (don't flame me for
other languages yet)

This issue has independently been open before, with a lot of passion.
Let us try to do it again, hopefully with a bit less passion.

I think that similarity in the language spoken, besides the
living close, was the main factor that brought South Slavs to start
the Yugoslav idea.

So, what can we call `a language'? I propose the following:

Definition I. We say that two groups of people speak the same language
if almost everybody from the first group can understand
speakers from the second (speaking normally, possibly
slowing down) and vice versa.

Not being a linguist myself, I do not claim that this definition is
perfect, but it is a bit more precise than previous arguments `we
understand each other well' (in it's plain linguistic meaning).

My argument is that all the South Slavs are close to
`understanding each other' (now in the sense of the definition),
due to the similarities in the linguistic structure -- of the
languages that have the same root (in not so distant past). Close
to, not yet able to.
I can, certainly, understand Serbs pretty well, Bosnians
[in present day Yugoslavia, I have to explain this: people that
live in Rep. of Bosnia and Herzegovina; with apologies to those
from Herzegovina not being mentioned explicitly -- I hope I did
not imply anything, I had no intention to]
even with less difficulty, Slovenes better since their program has
not been always subtitled on HTV (and since I started to read RokPress),
while I have very little experience in hearing Macedonians speaking
their language.
Since I left Zagreb, weekly Mladina became popular -- and
many of my colleagues were reading it. Those enjoying sports, are
spending hours and hours watching TV Koper -- in Slovene. And they
understand it. So, considering this group, I can get one half of my
definition: we understand Slovenes when they speak, and we can read.
Of course, when I get a sample of `Kuharske bukve' ( cookbook), I
have a difficult time understanding it; but this is true with a cookbook
from Belgrade as well ( I had difficulties learning what `sargarepa'
(carrot) was, and `pihtija' I learned when I was in college, not being
able to understand some TVB show - which was not, of course, subtitled).
The difficulties are less explicit, but more or less of the same nature.
Another problem was with a student from Vipava, whom I was not
able to understand at all. This was some five years ago, but the problem
was not so in my improvement, but in the fact that he was speaking in a
strong dialect. Even a friend of mine, whose mother tongue was Slovene,
had a hard time understanding him. But, I do not claim that I can
understand some Croats from the islands neither. Not only me, but
even educated people, being born on a nearby island, speak Italian
to them (they all had to learn Italian in the past), if they want to
be understood. And the language those people speak is certainly a
Croatian dialect, not a different language.

So, I disagree with all of those trying to prove that all
the Croats for centuries speak a language that is distinct from the
language spoken by Serbs, or Slovenes, or those living in Montenegro
or Herzegovina (I am making up for before!). I just cannot believe
that something like this is true. A true `purger' from Zagreb was not
able to understand a citizen of Split or `gospar' from Dubrovnik at
the beginning of the last century, not even close to my understanding
of Slovenes today.

By improving the educational system, dropping the subtitles
for Macedonian and Slovene on TV, all South Slavs in Yugoslavia can
certainly learn how to understand each other. Not to learn how to
speak as others speak, but just to be able to understand (with some
slowing down when necessary) -- it is not that much (Slovenes and
Macedonians have been doing that for a long time, so it can easily be
done).

Every governmental employee should be required to pass a
test of passive knowledge of all South Slavic speeches significant in
Yugoslavia, before being able to get a job, and be required to maintain
that ability later -- with availability of TV programs (without subtitles)
this is possible.

I would stop here now. I hope that I have shown that it is
possible to achieve that Yugoslavia speaks one language in the sense of
the definition I. given above.

Regards
Nenad Antoni\'c.

P.S.
I apologise for excluding Albanians, Hungarians, Italians and
others. I do not believe that the whole population of Yugoslavia can
learn to understand even these three languages (different families!),
and to have a foreign language as a part of the curriculum. I think
that certain areas should be determined (like Kosovo, Vojvodina, Istra,
...) where passive knowledge of the corresponding language would be
required from all governmental employees; and those languages would be
taught as subjects in schools -- if the numbers are sufficient, the
first language used in minority classes should be the language of
the minority.

____________________________________________________________

The opinions expressed above a solely mine.
I do not even think that my present employer has an opinion on the issue.