Arrest Now!

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WWS

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Sep 29, 1999, 3:00:00 AM9/29/99
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Yuri Kuchinsky wrote:
>

> And here are the details,
>
> Yuri.
>
> Text of the indictment prepared by Ramsey Clark.
>
> [1]The List of Charges
>
> The Complaint
>

(snip)

This probably represents the absolute bottom of Ramsey Clark's long,
slow, slide into totally irrelevant obscurity. It's really sad in a
way. You do know that he was most recently involved in trying to
block the extradition of a man wanted for war crimes in Rwanda - his
entire claim was based on the fact that the World Court has no
jurisdiction inside the US, even over foreign nationals who are
wanted for war crimes. Pretty funny given his arguments in this
case.

Fact his, he's now nothing more than a whore for any tinplated fascist
that walks up and shoves money down his pants. Some hero you've got.
--

__________________________________________________WWS_____________

Idiocy abhors a vacuum, but it also abhors a room full of
people it isn't currently in, and so crashes the party. - jdn

Yuri Kuchinsky

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Oct 1, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/1/99
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WWS (wsch...@tyler.net) wrote:
:
:
: Yuri Kuchinsky wrote:
: >
:
: > And here are the details,
: >
: > Yuri.
: >
: > Text of the indictment prepared by Ramsey Clark.
: >
: > [1]The List of Charges
: >
: > The Complaint
: >
:
: (snip)
:
: This probably represents the absolute bottom of Ramsey Clark's long,
: slow, slide into totally irrelevant obscurity.

Yeah, sure, you would like it to be so...

: It's really sad in a


: way. You do know that he was most recently involved in trying to
: block the extradition of a man wanted for war crimes in Rwanda - his
: entire claim was based on the fact that the World Court has no
: jurisdiction inside the US, even over foreign nationals who are
: wanted for war crimes. Pretty funny given his arguments in this
: case.
:
: Fact his, he's now nothing more than a whore for any tinplated fascist
: that walks up and shoves money down his pants. Some hero you've got.

That's a bunch of phoney baloney.

Ramsey Clark is a lawyer. Everyone is entitled to justice and legal
representation. To try to smear the lawyer with the alleged crimes of
someone he represents is not only an insult to intelligence, but also an
attack on the Western legal system itself.

[quote]

Former attorney general battling extradition of Rwandan pastor

LAREDO, Texas (AP) -- Former U.S. Attorney General Ramsey Clark says
he will fight a federal judge's order that an elderly Rwandan minister
accused of genocide be handed over to a United Nations war crimes
tribunal.

Clark, defense attorney for 74-year-old Elizaphan Ntakirutimana, said
the matter could ultimately be decided by the U.S. Supreme Court.

If Ntakirutimana is delivered to the tribunal, it would mark the first
time a person arrested on American soil would face a war crimes trial.
Clark claims the tribunal is illegal and that his client is falsely
accused.

"He's seen his church destroyed, the people in the church killed and
himself accused of genocide. It's a fate of biblical proportions,"
Clark told the San Antonio Express-News on Thursday in a telephone
interview from New York.

The United Nations International Criminal Tribunal for Rwanda based in
Arusha, Tanzania, accuses Ntakirutimana of involvement in slaughters
that occurred during ethnic conflicts between Hutus and Tutsis in
1994.

Ntakirutimana was head of the Seventh-day Adventist Church in Rwanda.

He is alleged to have urged a large, mostly Tutsi group of men, women
and children to seek refuge in a church complex and then to have taken
part in an attack on the group that killed hundreds, according to the
tribunal's indictment.

Earlier this month, U.S. District Judge John Rainey ruled there is
sufficient evidence to turn Ntakirutimana over to the three-judge
tribunal.

Rainey gave Clark until the first week of September to file a legal
counter to his order.

Clark contends Ntakirutimana is being unjustly accused because of
tribal hatred and a new government that despised the pastor's church
power.

Clark said he would be willing to represent Ntakirutimana before the
tribunal, but said there is no way the pastor would receive a fair
trial. Anyone who testifies on his behalf could be killed, Clark said.

"If I went to Rwanda and started questioning witnesses and the
government saw me, what would happen to those witnesses when the sun
went down? I would endanger the life of anyone I talked to," Clark
said.

Last year, a U.S. magistrate judge ruled it was unconstitutional to
hand the pastor over to the tribunal.

The Justice Department has been arguing for his extradition and
refiled the case before another judge. Federal prosecutors said the
magistrate's decision was "an embarrassment" to the U.S. government.

Ntakirutimana was arrested in September 1996 near Laredo, where his
son lives. He spent 15 months in jail then was released after the
magistrate's ruling late last year.

He was arrested again earlier this month and is in the Webb County
Jail.

If convicted before the U.N tribunal, he could face life in prison.

http://reporternews.com/texas/pastor0822.html

Yuri.

Yuri Kuchinsky -=O=- http://www.trends.ca/~yuku -=O=- Toronto

For every credibility gap, there is a gullibility fill

Yuri Kuchinsky

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Oct 1, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/1/99
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WWS (wsch...@tyler.net) wrote:

: You do know that he was most recently involved in trying to

: block the extradition of a man wanted for war crimes in Rwanda - his
: entire claim was based on the fact that the World Court has no
: jurisdiction inside the US, even over foreign nationals who are
: wanted for war crimes.

You're lying of course. This was certainly not his "entire claim".

International Criminal Tribunal for Rwanda? Sure seems to me like it's
similar to the kangaroo tribunal in the Hague...

Ramsey Clark is the conscience of America today


[quote]

Barry Crawford of Africa Direct introduces a special investigation into the
injustice being perpetrated by the International Criminal Tribunal for
Rwanda.

In the pages that follow, legal experts from the USA and Canada outline their
case against the genocide tribunal

Showtrial, UN-style

The first three trials are underway at the International Criminal
Tribunal for Rwanda in Arusha, Tanzania. The defendants - Georges
Anderson Nderubumwe Rutuganda, Jean Paul Akayesu and Clement Kayishema
- are the first of many Rwandan Hutus to be charged with committing
the most serious of all crimes: genocide.

The tribunal was set up by the United Nations Security Council, with
the strong support of many Western non-governmental organisations. Its
declared aim is to punish those responsible for committing genocide in
Rwanda in 1994, and so aid a process of national reconciliation and
peace. The tribunal judges have boasted of applying the highest
standards of international law and justice.

Yet, for all its support and claims of lofty aims and standards, key
questions about the tribunal remain unanswered.

Why, if it claims to be upholding international law, was the tribunal
set up by the UN Security Council in what former US attorney general
Ramsey Clark describes on p30 as a flagrant defiance of the UN
Charter?

Why, if it is concerned to discover the truth behind the bloodshed in
Rwanda, is the tribunal only investigating the events of 1994? As John
Philpot of the American Association of Jurists points out on p28, this
avoids any investigation of the Rwandan Patriotic Front's
US/British-backed invasion of Rwanda in October 1990, and the years of
war which followed until the Tutsi-run RPF replaced the old
Hutu-dominated regime in July 1994. It also rules out investigations
into attacks upon Hutu refugees by the new Rwandan government, in
particular its massacre at Kibeho in April 1995. The tribunal is not
even looking fully into what did happen in 1994; it has ruled out any
investigation into who shot down the plane carrying the presidents of
both Rwanda and Burundi in April 1994 - the fatal attack which is
often claimed to have been the signal for the genocide to commence.

Why, if the tribunal's concern is justice, is it employing all of the
practises which Arusha investigator Phil Taylor and John Philpot
describe over the page: using international snatch squads to apprehend
people in various countries, sometimes without indictments, and bundle
them off to Arusha; denying the accused the right to defence lawyers
of their own choosing, while imposing lawyers whom the accused have
rejected; allowing hearsay and other uncorroborated evidence?

And why, if the UN Security Council wants to end crimes against
humanity, has Rwanda been singled out for a genocide tribunal when no
such court sat in judgement on any of the bloody wars waged by the
UNSC's permanent members - the USA, Britain, France, Russia and China
- or their allies over the past half century?

The tribunal is clearly not what it claims to be. Something else is
going here. It is a showtrial, staged by the powers who run the UN.

Despite the trappings of a legal process in Arusha, the tribunal's
central verdict was passed before the judges ever sat down. The
tribunal is based on a presupposition that the Hutu majority in Rwanda
are guilty of committing genocide against the Tutsi minority, a
verdict first handed down by human rights organisations and later
officially endorsed by the UN Security Council.

A cool and properly contextualised analysis of the tragedy which
unfolded in Rwanda in 1994 would suggest that, far from being a
uniquely horrific campaign of genocide, the massacres were in fact the
final bloody struggle for power in a drawn-out, brutal but
all-too-familiar African civil war - a war, moreover, which the
intervention of the USA, Britain, France and Belgium did much to bring
about. (For a full analysis, see Africa Direct's 'Submission to the
United Nations Tribunal on Rwanda', February 1995).

Instead, the hysteria over an alleged genocide has obscured the real
causes of the conflict, and particularly the central role of Great
Power diplomacy, so removing any trace of culpability from Washington
and other Western capitals. The tribunal is a showtrial to convince
the world that the war in Rwanda was the work of some evil Rwandan
leaders and their mindless accomplices - the majority of Hutu
peasants.

As Phil Taylor has observed, the courtroom testimonies of witnesses
and expert witnesses alike in Arusha have failed to substantiate the
central charge that the accused conspired to plot and execute
genocide. Not one of the prosecution's expert witnesses so far speaks
Kinyarwanda, the language of all Rwandans. Not one of them was there
when the alleged genocidal acts were committed. Yet they play a
crucial role in creating the right atmosphere in court.

That atmosphere is key to the real function of the tribunal: as a
vehicle for a moral crusade against evil in Africa. The genocidal Hutu
'extremist' is branded as evil personified. Once the existence of this
evil force is established, the specifics of individual guilt become a
secondary matter, as all Hutus are demonised and people are charged
with genocide for membership of Hutu organisations rather than for
anything they might have done.

In the world-view which influences the tribunal proceedings, Hutu
intellectuals are evil masterminds; Hutu peasants are zombies who will
kill on command. This demonisation is not expressed in the old racist
language about African savages. It is conducted in the West's
politically correct language of the nineties, with liberal lawyers and
NGO workers accusing Hutus of extremism and neo-fascism and drawing
casual parallels with the Nazi Holocaust.

The tragic consequences of the demonisation process are obvious to
anybody willing to look. Rwanda continues to be a living hell. Over
120 000 are in grim, overcrowded jails awaiting trial. So far 61 have
received the death penalty, some after a trial lasting a few hours
without any sign of defence lawyers or defence witnesses. These
outrages are committed by legal authorities which have been both
trained and praised by the UN. Outside the prisons and detention
centres, Rwandan society is more bitter and polarised than ever. And
there is a disturbing absence of young Hutu men in the communes.

The fall-out from the demonisation process now being ratified by the
tribunal has spread beyond Rwanda's borders. Rwandan Hutu refugees in
the eastern region of what was then Zaire and is now the Democratic
Republic of Congo were largely shunned by Western human rights
organisations and aid agencies, who insisted that many were extremists
guilty of genocide. The result was to set up the Hutu refugee camps
for invasion by the Rwandan government-based rebels in Zaire, who
slaughtered many and drove the rest of the refugees back towards
Rwanda with impunity. Evidently, atrocities committed against Rwandans
who have been tarred with the broad 'genocide' brush are not so
shocking to the international community and its tribunal.

In Kenya, President Moi has finally succumbed to relentless pressure
to allow the tribunal and Rwandan courts a free hand in obtaining the
extradition of genocide suspects. Mass arrests have followed, as
forces commanded by the Western powers once again trample across the
borders of formally independent African states - only this time with
the support of the liberal voices who would have been loud critics of
old-fashioned colonialism in Africa.

In the end, it seems to me the Arusha showtrials say rather more about
the state of Western societies than they reveal about Rwanda. The
crusade to punish evil Africans serves to boost the morale of those
who are increasingly troubled by the sense of moral drift at home.
Western lawyers, aid workers, journalists and others have seized upon
the righteous mission against 'genocidaires' in the Dark Continent to
fill themselves with a new moral certainty. Africa is paying a heavy
price for getting caught up in the West's latest crusade.

That such appalling denials of democratic rights and witch-hunts can
be carried out in the name of human rights ought to serve as a warning
to all who endorse Western policy on Rwanda and the tribunal. If they
pass unopposed, what is to stop similar travesties happening
elsewhere? John Philpot rightly asks: where will the human rights
mafia strike next?

The published transcript of Africa Direct's conference 'The Great
Genocide Debate', which took place in central London on 27 July 1997,
is available priced £5 (add £1.50 p&p), orders via e-mail:
[8]africa...@easynet.co.uk, or fax (0171) 691 7063
_________________________________________________________________

Reproduced from LM issue 103, September 1997
_________________________________________________________________

http://www.informinc.co.uk/LM/LM103/LM103_Rwanda.html

Yuri.

Yuri Kuchinsky -=O=- http://www.trends.ca/~yuku

"No theory is too false, no fable too absurd, no superstition too
degrading for acceptance when it has become imbedded in common belief" --
Henry George

WWS

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Oct 1, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/1/99
to

Yuri Kuchinsky wrote:
>
> WWS (wsch...@tyler.net) wrote:
> :
> :
> : Yuri Kuchinsky wrote:
> : >
> :
> : > And here are the details,
> : >
> : > Yuri.


THANK YOU!!! And I mean that sincerely! You have proved my point better
than I was going to myself! Don't you get it? Ramsey's arguments in the
case of the Rwandan minister are the EXACT OPPOSITE of everything he
claims in his COMPLAINT that you reposted in this thread! In that case
he claims that international tribunals have no jurisdiction, have no
standing to hear cases outside their own countries boundaries, and have
no rights even to indict! How can he then claim that NATO leaders should
be indicted and charged and brought before an international tribunal???

ANSWER: HE DOESN'T BELIEVE ANY OF IT, HE JUST CRANKED IT OUT BECAUSE
HE GOT PAID TO CRANK IT OUT - THE "COMPLAINT" IS NOTHING BUT A JOKE!!!

And that's the so-called "conscience of America today"???

Sure Ramsey Clark is a lawyer, and has the right to take any case and
use any means to win it. But he also puts on the grandiose airs of
Moral Purity - taking cases requiring him to contradict everything he
has publicly claimed he believes in goes a long way towards convincing
me, among others, that all he believes in is earning the next meal ticket.
And that he in fact has no conscience whatsoever, at least none that would
interfere with him taking money from mass murderers.

(In case you wondered, the commission has multiple eyewitnesses who have
testified that Elizaphan Ntakirutimana in fact organized and aided the
slaughter in Rwanda in 1994. Many men have been convicted on less
evidence than has already been presented against him.)


> : >
> : > Text of the indictment prepared by Ramsey Clark.
> : >
> : > [1]The List of Charges
> : >
> : > The Complaint
> : >
> :
> : (snip)
> :
> : This probably represents the absolute bottom of Ramsey Clark's long,
> : slow, slide into totally irrelevant obscurity.
>
> Yeah, sure, you would like it to be so...
>
> : It's really sad in a

> : way. You do know that he was most recently involved in trying to


> : block the extradition of a man wanted for war crimes in Rwanda - his
> : entire claim was based on the fact that the World Court has no
> : jurisdiction inside the US, even over foreign nationals who are

> Yuri.
>

> Yuri Kuchinsky -=O=- http://www.trends.ca/~yuku -=O=- Toronto
>
> For every credibility gap, there is a gullibility fill

--

Sam Barber

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Oct 2, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/2/99
to
In article <7t30n2$317s$2...@hub.org>,

yu...@mail.trends.ca (Yuri Kuchinsky) wrote:
> WWS (wsch...@tyler.net) wrote:
>
> : You do know that he was most recently involved in trying to
> : block the extradition of a man wanted for war crimes in Rwanda - his
> : entire claim was based on the fact that the World Court has no
> : jurisdiction inside the US, even over foreign nationals who are
> : wanted for war crimes.
>
> You're lying of course. This was certainly not his "entire claim".
>
> International Criminal Tribunal for Rwanda? Sure seems to me like it's
> similar to the kangaroo tribunal in the Hague...
>
> Ramsey Clark is the conscience of America today

We know what company Yuri keeps. His education continues:

http://salon.com/news/feature/1999/06/21/clark/index.html

Ramsey Clark, the war criminal's best friend

By Ian Williams
June 21, 1999

The former U.S. attorney general has become the tool of left-wing
cultists who defend Slobodan Milosevic, Saddam Hussein and Rwandan
torturers as anti-imperialist heroes.

In the most morbidly literal way, NATO forces are "sniffing out" more
mass graves than alliance spokesman Jamie Shea ever suspected. Dog-
eaten sticks of bone poke from putrescent pits on television screens.
So it is not surprising that on July 31 New York will see the opening
of a commission of inquiry for an international war crimes tribunal.
What may surprise some is that its target is NATO's war crimes.

Those who know him will be less surprised that the inspiration for this
circus is former U.S. Attorney General Ramsey Clark, whom one long-
standing colleague described as "a good man gone ga-ga -- at least 25
years ago." Many liberals and leftists cut Clark a considerable degree
of slack. For a start he is almost the only person the American left
has had in high public office since World War II, even if it was a
retrospective success, since his long march leftward only began
afterward. His views as the former attorney general are listened to
with a respect that would be accorded to few others with such eccentric
opinions. As a revered spokesman of the left, he is a perfect symbol
for its near-impotence in American politics today.

Everyone who has dealings with Clark uses the word "nice" to describe
him. But he often sides with people whom no one with a full deck would
call nice. (Clark did not respond to a Salon News interview request.)
Many former friends, more in sorrow than in anger, trace his present
positions to the company he keeps: the International Action Center,
which proclaims him its founder but seems entirely in the thrall of an
obscure Trotskyist sect, the Workers World Party. Whoever writes his
scripts, there is little doubt what Ramsey Clark is against now -- any
manifestation of the power of the state he once served at the height of
the Vietnam War.

At the end of 1998 Clark attended a human rights conference in Baghdad,
Iraq, where in his keynote speech he pointed out how "the governments
of the rich nations, primarily the United States, England and France,"
dominated the wording of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights,
which showed "little concern for economic, social and cultural rights."
The social and cultural rights claimed by his Iraqi hosts include the
right to hang opponents in public at the airport, or poison thousands
of Kurds and torture and execute any opponent of the regime. And on the
legality of Iraq's invasion of Kuwait, the silence is deafening.

When he flew to Belgrade to support Slobodan Milosevic during NATO's
campaign, there was no word about the siege of Sarajevo, the massacre
at Srebrenica or the million homeless refugees from Kosovo -- and even
less of those olfactorily eloquent mass graves that NATO is now
uncovering. But then, urging Belgrade to resist NATO, while he was
there picking up an honorary degree, he told his hosts, "It will be a
great struggle, but a glorious victory. You can be victorious."

In Grenada he went to advise Bernard Coard, the murderer of Prime
Minister Maurice Bishop. Other clients include Radovan Karadzic, the
indicted Bosnian Serbian war criminal whom he defended in a New York
civil suit brought by Bosnian rape victims, and the Rwandan pastor who
is accused of telling Tutsis to hide in his church and then summoning
Hutus to massacre them, and then leading killing squads.

His willingness to accept dubious clients is defended by some
attorneys. After all, everyone needs a defense. Others say he has
crossed a moral line by defending Karadzic and overlooking events in
Kosovo. But looking at his legal arguments, one must question the
wisdom of his legal counsel, not just his morals. A prominent
international lawyer explains, "He's not really very well up on
international law -- I remember he was asking for help in some of his
early cases."

Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.

Paige

unread,
Oct 2, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/2/99
to
Sam, thank you for the profile of Ramsey Clark, war crinal's best friend!
Thanks!

Sam Barber wrote in message <7t5grn$15u$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>...


>In article <7t30n2$317s$2...@hub.org>,
> yu...@mail.trends.ca (Yuri Kuchinsky) wrote:

>> WWS (wsch...@tyler.net) wrote:
>>
>> : You do know that he was most recently involved in trying to
>> : block the extradition of a man wanted for war crimes in Rwanda - his
>> : entire claim was based on the fact that the World Court has no
>> : jurisdiction inside the US, even over foreign nationals who are
>> : wanted for war crimes.
>>
>> You're lying of course. This was certainly not his "entire claim".
>>
>> International Criminal Tribunal for Rwanda? Sure seems to me like it's
>> similar to the kangaroo tribunal in the Hague...
>>
>> Ramsey Clark is the conscience of America today
>

allonzo

unread,
Oct 3, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/3/99
to
allonzo wrote:
Text of the indictment prepared by Ramsey Clark.

The List of Charges

The Complaint

This Complaint is presented to end the scourge of war, prevent
future
violations of fundamental human rights, protect international
and national
organizations, governments and institutions and to hold those
convicted of
the violations alleged accountable for their acts.

The Governments, Organizations and
Individuals named herein are charged
with:

Crimes against Peace, War Crimes, Crimes against Humanity and
Other
Offenses in Violation of the Principles of the Nuremberg
Tribunal
(Nuremberg), the Hague Regulations (Hague) and Geneva
Conventions
(Geneva) and Other International and National Laws;

Grave Violations of the Charter of the United Nations (UN
Charter), the
North Atlantic Treaty (NAT), other international treaties,
International
Law, the Federal Constitution and Domestic Laws of the United
States,
the Basic Laws of Other Nations Including the United Kingdom,
the
Federal Republic of Germany, Turkey, the Netherlands, Hungary,
Italy,
Spain and other Governments of NATO members and the Federal
Republic of Yugoslavia.

Grave Violations of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights
(UDHR),
the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights
(ICCPR), the
International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights
(ICESCR), the Genocide Convention, and Other International
Covenants, Conventions, Treaties, Declarations and Domestic
Laws
named herein.

A. Defendants

1. President William J. Clinton, Secretary of State Madeleine
Albright,
Secretary of Defense William Cohen and Commanding Generals,
Admirals, U.S. personnel directly involved in designating
targets, flight
crews and deck crews of the U.S. military bomber and assault
aircraft,
U.S. military personnel directly involved in targeting,
preparing and
launching missiles at Yugoslavia, the government of the United
States
personnel causing, condoning or failing to prevent violence in
Yugoslavia
before and during NATO occupation and Others to be named.

2. The United Kingdom, Prime Minister Tony Blair, the Foreign
Minister,
the Defense Minister and Commanding Generals, Admirals, U.K.
personnel directly involved in designating targets, flight
crews and deck
crews of the U.K. military bomber and assault aircraft, U.K.
military
personnel directly involved in targeting, preparing and
launching missiles at
Yugoslavia, the government of the United Kingdom personnel
causing,
condoning or failing to prevent violence in Yugoslavia before
and during
NATO occupation and Others to be named.

3. The Federal Republic of Germany, Chancellor Gerhard
Schroeder, the
Foreign Minister, the Defense Minister and Commanding
Generals,
Admirals, German personnel directly involved in designating
targets, flight
crews and deck crews of the German military bomber and assault
aircraft,
German military personnel directly involved in targeting,
preparing and
launching missiles at Yugoslavia, the government of the
Federal Republic
of Germany personnel causing, condoning or failing to prevent
violence in
Yugoslavia before and during NATO occupation and Others to be
named.

4. The Government of every NATO country that participated
directly in
the assaults on Yugoslavia with aircraft, missiles, or
personnel and
Commanding Generals, Admirals, NATO personnel directly
involved in
designating targets, flight crews and deck crews of the NATO
military
bomber and assault aircraft, NATO military personnel directly
involved in
targeting, preparing and launching missiles at Yugoslavia, the
governments
of the NATO countries’ personnel causing, condoning or failing
to
prevent violence in Yugoslavia before and during NATO
occupation and
Others to be named.

5. The Governments of Turkey, Hungary, Italy and others who
permitted
the use of airbases on their territory to be used by U.S., or
other military
aircraft and missiles for direct assault on Yugoslavia.

6. The North American Treaty Organization (NATO), Secretary
General
Javier Solano, Supreme Commander, General Wesley K. Clark

7. For Condemnation: Each NATO member that voted to authorize
military assaults on Yugoslavia.

B. The Charges

1. Planning and Executing the Dismemberment, Segregation and
Impoverishment of Yugoslavia.

The United States, Germany, NATO and other defendants engaged
in a
course of conduct beginning in, or before 1991 intended to
break the
Federal Republic of Yugoslavia into many parts, segregate
different
ethnic, religious and other groups among and within newly
balkanized
borders, weaken the Slav, Serb, Muslim and other populations
by causing
and prolonging internal violence and by direct assaults by the
United
States and certain NATO members. As a consequence Yugoslavia,
which had 25 million people in an integrated society and
economy, is now
comprised of many small nations, the largest of which is
Serbia.
Defendants intend to divide Yugoslavia until all parts of
Yugoslavia have
fewer than 5 million people, each to be overwhelmingly of a
single ethnic
origin and religion, to have severely impaired economies
largely
dominated by foreign interests, in which two groups, Orthodox
Christian
Serbs and Muslims suffer severest casualties, most extensive
property
damage, a vast reduction of productivity now down by
three-quarters or
more, and a generation of impoverishment.

UN Charter; Declaration on the Inadmissibility of Intervention
in the
Domestic Affairs of States and the Protection of their
Independence
and Sovereignty (Non Intervention Decl.), 1965 USGA Res. 2131.

2.Inflicting, Inciting and Enhancing Violence between Muslims
and Slavs.

The United States and other defendants engaged in a course of
conduct
beginning in or before 1991, to cause Muslims and Orthodox
Christian
Slavs to engage in protracted fratricidal violence, in wars of
attrition,
similar to conflicts in Afghanistan and Chechnya between
Muslims and
Russian Slavs, which caused death, destruction and division in
Bosnia,
Kosovo and elsewhere between the groups and dangerous
frictions and
enmity between two major enemies of the U.S., Slavic peoples
and
Muslims, in other regions, weakening both. Tactics included
both
providing and depriving select Muslim groups of arms to attack
others, or
adequately defend themselves in Bosnia; motivating, training
and supplying
KLA with arms to attack Yugoslav police and military to seize
control of
Kosovo during NATO occupation and attack Serbs and others;
preventing outside efforts to prevent and control the
violence; committing,
causing and condoning violence against persons displaced by
U.S. and
NATO bombing campaigns, and by KLA and Yugoslav police and
military ground actions; causing and supporting clashes
between Yugoslav
military/police/civilian groups and KLA/paramilitary/civilian
groups;
condoning and failing to prevent assaults on displaced persons
returning to
and persons who remained in Kosovo, both before and after the
NATO/U.S. occupation of Kosovo. In 1999, the U.S. caused the
largest
numbers of deaths, injuries and destruction by aerial and
missile assaults
against all elements in the population and its life support
systems.

UN Charter, Art. 2; Non Intervention Decl.; Resolution on the
Definition of Aggression (Res. on Aggression), 1997 UNGA Res.
3314.

3. Preventing and Disrupting Efforts to Maintain Unity, Peace
and
Stability in Yugoslavia.

From the beginning of its efforts to implement its plans for
dismemberment
and destruction of Yugoslavia, the U.S. acted to prevent any
interference,
negotiation, or other efforts within Yugoslavia, or by other
nations,
leaders, or individuals to prevent the accomplishment of its
intended
purposes. Its techniques included political, military and
economic threats
and control of highly publicized peace negotiations much like
those at
Dayton, Ohio, during the Bosnia struggle, at Rambouillet,
France, in
1999, which created an appearance of earnest peace
negotiations, but
offered Yugoslavia only two choices, agree to foreign military
occupation,
or expect a devastating military assault.

UN Charter; Non Intervention Declaration; Resolution on
Aggression; Pact of Paris 1928, Art I and II.

4. Destroying the Peace-Making Role of the United Nations.

The United States acted and coerced other nations to act to
block the
United Nations from performing its duties under the UN Charter
to
prevent conflict, control violence and maintain peace in
Yugoslavia in
violation of the Charter of the UN and threatening its
viability as a
international institution capable of maintaining peace and
ending the
scourge of war.

UN Charter; Non Intervention Decl.; Resolution on Aggression,
Pact
of Paris 1928, Art I and II.

5. Using NATO for Military Aggression against and Occupation
of
Non-Compliant Poor Countries.

The United States acted and coerced other nations to act to
cause
NATO to authorize direct military assaults on Yugoslavia in
violation of
the UN Charter and the North Atlantic Treaty relying
overwhelmingly on
U.S. weaponry and military technology and to cause NATO
members to
provide and finance the majority of the military forces to
occupy Kosovo
for the foreseeable future thereby employing the wealth and
power of the
rich former colonial powers of Europe against the poor and
defenseless
people of Yugoslavia.

United Nations Charter; North Atlantic Treaty 1949, Art. I.

6. Killing and Injuring a Defenseless Population throughout
Yugoslavia.

Beginning on, or before March 24, 1999, the United States,
without a
declaration of war by the Congress, aided and abetted by
certain NATO
members, including the United Kingdom, Germany, Turkey, Spain
and
the Netherlands, as well as Hungary, Croatia, Italy and
others,
commenced a war of missile and aerial bombing assaults, often
indiscriminate in its targeting, against the populations of
Yugoslavia,
intentionally killing and injuring many thousands of Serbs,
Albanians,
Romas, Muslims, Orthodox Christians, Roman Catholics, foreign
nationals throughout Yugoslavia with malice aforethought.

Hague, Art. 22 and 23; Geneva 1949, Art. 19; Nuremberg,
Principle
VI a, b and c; U.S. Constitution, Art. I, Sec. 8, cl. II.

7. Planning, Announcing and Executing Attacks Intended to
Assassinate the Head of Government, Other Government Leaders
and Selected Civilians.

The United States planned, announced and carried out missile
and aerial
bombardment attacks intended to assassinate the Head of
Government of
Yugoslavia, members of his family, other government leaders
and selected
civilians to destroy existing government leadership and
terrorize it and its
closest personal support into submission. U.N. Charter, Art.
2,
Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of Crimes Against
Internationally Protected Persons (Protected Persons
Convention);
U.S. Army Field Manual 27-10; U.S. Presidential Executive
Order
12333 (Ex.Order 12333); Geneva Conventions 1977, Protocol I
Additional (Geneva 1977), Art. 48, 51.

8. Destroying and Damaging Economic, Social, Cultural,
Medical,
Diplomatic and Religious Resources, Properties and Facilities
throughout Yugoslavia.

Beginning on, or before March 24, 1999, the United States,
aided and
abetted by certain NATO members, including United Kingdom,
Germany, Turkey, Spain and the Netherlands and others
including
Croatia, Hungary and Italy, commenced a systematic missile and
aerial
bombing assault on resources, properties and economic, social,
cultural,
medical, diplomatic and religious facilities intentionally
destroying and
damaging them throughout Yugoslavia to crush the productive,
economic,
social, cultural, diplomatic and religious viability of the
whole society.

Hague, Art. 22 and 23; Geneva 1949, Art. 19; Geneva 1977,
Protocol I, Additional, Art. 48, 52, 53; UN Charter, Art. 2;
Protected Persons Convention; U.S. Army Field Manual 27-10;
Exec. Order 12333; Geneva 1977, Art. 48, 51; ICESCR.

9. Attacking Objects Indispensable to the Survival of the
Population of Yugoslavia.

Beginning on or before March 24, 1999, the United States,
aided and
abetted by others, for the specific purpose of depriving the
population of
Yugoslavia of food, water, electric power, food production,
medicines,
medical care and other essentials to their survival, engaged
in the
systematic destruction and damage by missiles and aerial
bombardment of
food production and storage facilities, drinking water and
irrigation works
for agriculture, fertilizer, insecticide, pharmaceutical,
hospitals and health
care facilities, among other objects essential to human
survival.

Hague 1907, Art. 22 and 23; Geneva 1949, Art. 19; Nuremberg
1970, Principles Via, b and c; Geneva 1977, Art. 48, 54.

10. Attacking Facilities Containing Dangerous Substances and
Forces.

The United States attacked chemical plants and storage
facilities,
petroleum and natural gas refining, processing and storage
facilities,
fertilizer plants and other facilities and locations for the
specific purpose of
releasing and scattering toxic, radioactive and other
dangerous substances
and forces into the atmosphere, soil, ground water and food
chain to
poison the environment and injure the population.

Nuremberg Principle VI, Hague, Art. 22 and 23, Protocol for
the
Prohibition of the Use in War of Asphyxiating, Poisonous or
Other
Gases, Geneva 1925 (Poisonous Substances Protocol); Geneva
1977, Protocol I Additional, Art. 48, 51, 56.

11. Using Depleted Uranium, Cluster Bombs and Other Prohibited
Weapons.

The United States used prohibited weapons capable of mass
destruction
and inflicting indiscriminate death and suffering against the
population of all
Yugoslavia. Despite knowledge of its deadly long-term effect
on life and
warnings of the U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission, the U.S.
attacked
Yugoslavia with depleted uranium missiles, bombs and bullets.
These
depleted uranium weapons spread radioactive matter into the
atmosphere,
soil, ground water, food chain and solid objects, placing the
Yugoslav
population at risk of death, genetic damage, cancers, tumors,
leukemia
and other injuries for generations. Cluster bombs were used
extensively,
spraying deadly razor sharp metal shards over wide areas
against
hospitals, churches, mosques, schools, apartment developments
and other
heavily populated places inflicting death, injury and property
damage. The
use of other illegal weapons is under continuing
investigation.

Hague, Art. 22 and 23, Geneva 1977, Art. 48, 51, 54, 55, POONA
Indictment for the Subversion of Science and technology 1978
(POONA Indictment).

12. Waging War on the Environment.

The United States aerial and missile assault intentionally
created a
widespread, long-term and severe environmental disaster in
Yugoslavia.
Air pollution from overflights alone multiplied normal
impurities in the
atmosphere. Thousands of tons of explosives unleashed enormous
quantities of chemicals into the air, raised clouds of dust
and debris from
places hit and started fires that often raged for days.
Chemical,
petrochemical, oil and gas refinery, storage and transmission
facilities
purposely targeted in the vicinity of Belgrade, Novi Sad, Nis
and other
major cities exposed huge populations to dangerous and noxious
pollution. Depleted uranium scattered across Kosovo and the
remainder
of Serbia will threaten life for generations.

Hague, Art. 22 and 23; Geneva 1977, Art. 48, 51, 54, 55;
Stockholm
Declaration of the United Nations Conference on the Human
Environment 1972; Principles I, II, (UN Conf. on Human
Environment), et al.

13. Imposing Sanctions through the UN that Are a Genocidal
Crime against Humanity to Achieve Impoverishment and
Debilitation of the People of Yugoslavia.

The United States began an economic attack on Yugoslavia
designed to
break it up politically and tear it down economically before
1989. It
caused the International Monetary Fund (IMF) to use its
strongest shock
therapy to attack Yugoslav productivity, add to its foreign
debt burden
and expose national wealth to foreign capital by forcing
removal of trade
barriers and privatizing vital public industry, commerce,
utilities and
facilities. In May 1991 U.S. Secretary of State Baker stopped
all U.S.
aid programs to all six Yugoslav Republics and vetoed future
IMF credits,
creating an enormous economic incentive and powerful political
argument
for political opposition to Belgrade to separate other
Republics from
Serbia. The U.S. forced UN sanctions against Yugoslavia, but
relieved
Republics that seceded from Yugoslavia of sanctions. Such
sanctions
devastated the entire economy of Yugoslavia to the degree that
a normal
growth rate free of U.S. coercion would require 30 years to
return
Yugoslavia to its 1989 levels of productivity. Per capita
production value
for all six Republics of Yugoslavia in 1989 was $6220. Today
for Serbia
and Montenegro, the remaining Republics of Yugoslavia, it is
$1510.
Ninety percent of all trade was among the six republics before
the
break-up. All former republics have suffered economically, but
Yugoslavia now, with barely 40% of its 1990 population,
including
Kosovo, has had a far greater decline economically than the
favored
northern Republics of Slovenia and Croatia, which are today
more
overwhelmingly Roman Catholic than before their secession. The
sanctions against Yugoslavia continue and Serbia, excluding
Kosovo, is
barred from receiving any planned reparations and aid to
rebuild from
bomb damage and economic attrition. The sanctions have had a
far more
damaging effect on life, health, the economy and the quality
of life in
Yugoslavia than the military assault, increasing death rates,
lowering life
expectation, reducing nutrition and health care and driving
production
down. As in Iraq, and elsewhere, the sanctions are an economic
crime, a
crime against humanity and genocide.

Nuremberg, Principle VI c, Crimes Against Humanity; Genocide
Convention; Geneva 1977, Art. 48, 54, 55.

14. Creating an Illegal Ad-Hoc Criminal Tribunal to Destroy
and
Demonize Serb Leadership.

The United States acting through defendant Madeleine Albright
coerced
the UN Security Council to create ad hoc criminal tribunals
for
Yugoslavia and Rwanda in violation of the UN Charter to
destroy and
demonize enemy leaders in those two countries and threaten
leaders
elsewhere. The UN Charter does not authorize creation of
criminal
tribunals. The U.S. strongly opposes the International
Criminal Tribunal
treaty approved by 120 nations at Rome in July 1998 and in the
process
of ratification by nations now, because it does not intend to
subject its
leaders or military forces to the jurisdiction of an
independent international
Court and the rule of international law. By targeting
individual enemies in
ad hoc courts and charging them with genocide, it achieves
their isolation
internationally, pressures their own countries to remove them
from power,
corrupts and politicizes justice and uses the appearance of
neutral
international law to adjudicate and punish enemies as war
criminals and
establish itself as an innocent champion of justice.

UN Charter, Statute of the International Court of Justice
(Statute
ICJ); UDHR; ICCPR.

15. Using Controlled International Media to Create Support for
U.S. Assaults Anywhere and to Demonize Yugoslavia, Slavs,
Serbs
and Muslims as Genocidal Murderers.

The United States defendants have systematically controlled,
directed,
manipulated, misinformed and restricted press and media
coverage
concerning Yugoslavia and the U.S. assaults on it to gain
public support
for the massive bombardment of a defenseless Yugoslavia,
including
Kosovo, as had been done in Libya, Iraq, Afghanistan, Sudan
and
elsewhere. The international media has supported and
celebrated U.S.
political goals of further fragmentation of Yugoslavia and
other areas,
segregating each region; demonizing selected government
officials, other
leaders, generals, military officers and soldiers as genocidal
murderers;
controlling other nations by the threat of popularly supported
missile and
air assaults and crippling economic sanctions and stimulating
acceptance
and support from the U.S. public for future operations against
other
nations and to increase military budgets to support an
expanding global
role for U.S. military presence and control.

16. Establishing the Long-term Military Occupation of
Strategic
Parts of Yugoslavia by NATO Forces.

The United States has coerced defendant NATO members and
others to
provide and support military occupation forces for the
occupation of
Kosovo, as it did in Bosnia, in order to physically control
key parts of
Yugoslavia to enforce permanent separation and segregation of
States
and peoples, to further injure the populations, to create
barriers to
immigration from Asia Minor, Arab states in the Middle East,
North
Africa, and former southern republics of the USSR, and
elsewhere; to
provide a buffer between Europe and the regions described by
controlling
the territory of divided, segregated and impoverished Slavs,
Serbs,
Orthodox Christians, Albanians, and others; to exploit the
resources of
the region; and to prepare and condition NATO members for
future
participation against other nations.

UN Charter; NAT, Art. I; Non Intervention Decl.

17. Attempting to Destroy the Sovereignty, Right to Self
Determination, Democracy and Culture of the Slavic, Muslim,
Christian and Other Peoples of Yugoslavia.

The United States has attempted to destroy the Sovereignty of
Yugoslavia, the rights of its people to self determination,
the democratic
institutions it has developed and its culture that defines the
heritage, values
and traditions of its people. The United States overthrew the
democratically elected Mossadegh administration in Iran in
1953, which it
replaced with the Shah of Iran, who ruled absolutely for 25
years; the
democratically elected Arbeny government of Guatemala, which
was
followed by 40 years of brutal governments; the democratically
elected
Lumumba government of the Congo in 1962, which was followed by
the
violent dictatorship of Mobutu Sese Seko for 32 years; the
democratically
elected Allende government of Chile, which promised health,
education,
social and economic justice, which was replaced by a reign of
terror and
military dictatorship under General Pinochet now sought by
Spain and
other nations for human rights violations. Popularly elected
leaders in
Vietnam, Pakistan, the Philippines, Panama, Haiti and
elsewhere were
replaced by U.S. surrogates. The U.S. has opposed, assaulted
and
blockaded Cuba and its people for 40 years. The UN General
Assembly
voted 155 to 2 to condemn the U.S. for its blockade of Cuba in
December 1998. The U.S. has maintained repressive governments
on five
continents in too many countries to name; all seeking to
destroy the
cultures that define the people, their history, character,
values, arts,
literature, music, with commercially exploitative products
having no
substantive worth and one overriding purpose — profits from
the poor. A
goal of U.S. policy is to entrench the belief that only one
system works,
capitalism, that only one culture has value, that of the U.S.
and western
European, and that history will end with the globalization of
U.S. culture.

UDHR; ICCPR; ICESCR.

18. The Purpose of the U.S. Actions Being to Dominate, Control
and Exploit Yugoslavia, Its People and Its Resources.

The long term purpose of all the acts complained of is to
dominate,
control and exploit the poor nations of the world and the poor
people of
the U.S. and other rich countries to further enrich and
empower
concentrations of wealth and neutralize the whole population
of poor,
overwhelmingly darker skinned people with fear, powerlessness,
poverty,
bread and circus.

19. The Means of the U.S. Being Military Power and Economic
Coercion.

The United States with a near monopoly on nuclear weapons,
military
aircraft, missiles, advanced armored vehicles, firepower,
equipment, and
highly sophisticated technology continuously expands its
physical power
to destroy, expending more on its military power than the rest
of the UN
Security Council members combined. This year, U.S. military
expenditures will be near 300 billion dollars. The demonized
People’s
Republic of China will spend 34 billion dollars, acquiring far
less in
destructive power for each dollar. The U.S. sells more
destructive arms to
other governments and groups seeking to overthrow governments
than the
rest of the arms selling countries combined. Often the
intention is that they
"kill each other," a preferred means of achieving domination.
The U.S.
does not sell arms it cannot destroy without incurring
significant casualties.
The U.S. uses its enormous economic power to coerce foreign
governments to comply with its wishes, without regard to the
interests of
the people of those foreign countries. The threat of economic
sanctions
alone coerces countries to meet U.S. demands contrary to their
sovereignty and self-interest.

C. Relief Sought

1. Freedom for all Balkan peoples to form a federation of
their choice
to provide political, civil, social, economic and cultural
independence and
viability for all the peoples of the region.

2. Comprehensive efforts to create mutual respect, common
interests and
bonds of friendship among and between Muslims, Slavs and all
national,
ethnic and religious groups in the Balkans.

3. Strict prohibition on all forms of foreign interference
with or disruption
of efforts to establish unity, peace and stability in the
Balkans.

4. Restoration of peace-making functions of the UN and reform
of the
UN to make it effective.

5. The abolition of NATO.

6. Full accountability by individuals and governments for
criminal and
other wrongful military assaults and economic injustice,
including sanctions
inflicted on all the people of Yugoslavia, their lives,
resources, properties
and environment to include criminal prosecutions and
reparations sufficient
to place all the population in the condition it would be in
had it not
suffered the wrongs inflicted on it, together with resources
with which to
build a better future of the peoples’ choice.

7. Abolition of the illegal ad hoc international criminal
tribunal for
Yugoslavia and reliance on a legal international tribunal of
worldwide
non-discriminatory jurisdiction capable of equal justice under
the law.

8. Providing adequate media access to inform the world of the
human
destructiveness of the use of high technology weapons by the
U.S. against
poor and defenseless people and the practice of genocide by
sanctions.

9. Removing all foreign troops from the Balkans at the
earliest feasible
moment and U.S. troops from NATO countries and elsewhere
immediately.

A broader range of relief and reform may be found in Chapter 12 of The
Fire This Time. It is
drawn from the experiences and recommendations of the Commission of
Inquiry and the


this day.

Sam Barber

unread,
Oct 3, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/3/99
to
In article <aIxJ3.6548$cy3....@news3.mia>,

"Paige" <par...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> Sam, thank you for the profile of Ramsey Clark, war crinal's best friend!
> Thanks!

Yuri needs all the help he can get.

Ricky Recon

unread,
Oct 4, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/4/99
to
ARREST {YURI} NOW ......yes arrest yuri now before its to late some of you
may know that Yuri hiding under the guise of a real human being is infact
a Subhuman from the depths of the former Ussr....he sits behind the freedom
of the country he imagrated to [Canada] and belchs out profanities against
the United States of America he comdems our leaders and our military
...he hides behind a computer and sprouts quotes of anti American propaganda
like the true weasel he is ....he once stated that russia won the 2nd world
war ..without any help from the allies this man [if one can call him such]
needs a leason in what freedom really is i realise that these opions i
state are pruely my own .but as being one man who has fought for his country
and having being shot 3 times and wounded by shrapnel many other times
..i find his constant putting down of my countries leaders and military
totaly without merit...he raves like a maniac states one thing then denies
it ..if not for the united states and her allies i personally think this
world we live in would be in one hell of a worse shape then its in now
..while the united states is not by any means perfect ..we sure do have one
large amount of people willing to do just about anything to imagrate here !
ill lay money YURI and his family were turned down imagration to the united
states thus his it explains his e-mail address ..
this message was brought to you by

http:www.yurigetalife.com

Yuri Kuchinsky <yu...@mail.trends.ca> wrote in message
news:7t30n2$317s$2...@hub.org...

Yuri Kuchinsky

unread,
Oct 5, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/5/99
to
Ricky Recon (zom...@hotmail.com) wrote:

: ARREST {YURI} NOW ......yes arrest yuri now before its to late some of you


: may know that Yuri hiding under the guise of a real human being is infact
: a Subhuman from the depths of the former Ussr....he sits behind the freedom
: of the country he imagrated to [Canada] and belchs out profanities against
: the United States of America he comdems our leaders and our military

No, moron, in fact I'm in agreement with many Americans who feel that
their country is now under the control of shadowy unelected forces who
do what they want, and seem to have total immunity (for now). They're
committing many crimes and letting down the American people.

Waco was an early warning and a symbol of what they're doing.

Yuri.

"The real winners, then, are Clinton and Blair and their coteries, and
militarist factions and weapons makers everywhere. ... The stocks of
Lockheed Martin, Raytheon, and their military contractor comrades are
moving up smartly in parallel with the rise in the U.S. military budget;
and across the globe military expenditures are expected to soar. The
NATO victory has shown non-NATO countries that international law no
longer protects them, and the rush is on to seriously upgrade weapons
systems (including the cheaper chemical and biological weapons) to
prevent similar "humanitarian intervention" by the great powers
elsewhere. This renewed arms race, along with smashed countries and
greater instability in the Balkans, are the major legacies of the NATO
war." -- (From VICTORY FOR WHOM? by Edward S. Herman)

Le Dejeuner sur l'Herbinator Phosphate

unread,
Oct 8, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/8/99
to

>Waco was an early warning and a symbol of what they're doing.

O.k....

There's this guy, he's got a helluva lot of charisma. So anyways, he joins
this far-out religous group and is groomed to take over the leadership of
it. Once in charge, his paranoia about the end of the world and government
forces attacking him leads him to brainwash a small group of followers.
While he is preaching to them, he is also having sex with numerous teenage
girls in the congregation. He reasons such sick actions as biblical and the
words of God. So, as his paranoia grows, he illegally stockpiles hundreds
of weapons, generators, and fuel products for some sort of showdown with the
government (that will trigger the end of the world).

Beginning to get where this is going?

Then, after a standstill occurs because he will not abide by the laws of
Texas and the federal government, his followers kill ATF agents who are
trying to arrest him. Then after a standoff, many Americans have their soap
operas interupted so that we can watch that guy burn down his compound and
kill the children he raped. What a stud, what a martyr.

You gotta love those conspiracy hicks...But that's o.k.

No one really takes them seriously (except in northern Idaho, where another
idiot name Weaver fought the law, and the law won)...

Herbinator Phosphate

Richard Simms

unread,
Oct 8, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/8/99
to

Le Dejeuner sur l'Herbinator Phosphate wrote in message
<#tXd53cE$GA.322@cpmsnbbsa02>...

>
>>Waco was an early warning and a symbol of what they're doing.
>
>O.k....
>
>There's this guy, he's got a helluva lot of charisma. So anyways, he joins
>this far-out religous group and is groomed to take over the leadership of
>it. Once in charge, his paranoia about the end of the world and government
>forces attacking him leads him to brainwash a small group of followers.

>While he is preaching to them, he is also having sex with numerous teenage
>girls in the congregation.

Only Congressmen are allowed to get away with that! Send in Delta Force!!!!!
It is odd they did not arrest him for that if they knew about it, after all
there was a FBI agent undercover in Mt Carmel.

He reasons such sick actions as biblical and the
>words of God. So, as his paranoia grows, he illegally stockpiles hundreds
>of weapons, generators, and fuel products for some sort of showdown with
the
>government (that will trigger the end of the world).

>Beginning to get where this is going?

>Then, after a standstill occurs because he will not abide by the laws of
>Texas and the federal government, his followers kill ATF agents who are
>trying to arrest him.

Actually, they were attempting to serve a search warrant on him due to
allegations he was illegally converting semi-auto rifles to full-auto, a
very hard to prove charge. Of course it was near budget time, and the ATF
was suffering from a sexual harassment scandal, so a high profile bust would
be good PR for them. So they invited the press, one of which predictably
blabbed to someone with connections to Koresh, who warned him. The FBI
informant inside Mt Carmel was told about the upcoming raid by Koresh and he
left. The ATF, knowing surprise was lost, charged in anyway, instead of
taking a different approach. Someone opened fire, and the shit hit the fan.

Then after a standoff, many Americans have their soap
>operas interupted so that we can watch that guy burn down his compound and
>kill the children he raped. What a stud, what a martyr.


If he burned down his compound. The changing FBI accounts have triggered an
very embarrasing investigation. As far as raping children, since most of
them got roasted, it will be hard to tell if that was true. Kind of like the
existance of the meth lab that suddenly became an issue in the middle of the
stand off. He was a fool, but being a fool is not a capital offense. The ATF
and FBI bungled the operation badly, and a lot of people died because of it.


>
>You gotta love those conspiracy hicks...But that's o.k.

Government fuck ups like Waco create people like that, as well.


>No one really takes them seriously (except in northern Idaho, where another
>idiot name Weaver fought the law, and the law won)...


Of course he was aquitted of the charges the ATF brought against him, and
has the settlement money from the Feds for the loss of his wife and son at
the hands of government agents. The death of Sammy Weaver was likely
accidental, it was in the middle of a firefight, after all. But blowing the
head off a woman with a baby in her arms seems a tad unjustified. And the
shooter, Agent Horiuchi, was at Waco, too.

>
>Herbinator Phosphate
>
>

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