How many kids have you killed today, you bastards?
Flight_of_the_Phoenix_
Igor <ig...@Algebra.Com> wrote in message
news:slrn86qvn...@manifold.algebra.com...
> Mark <retu...@sender.com> wrote:
> * So the Russians have fired Scuds on Chechnia on the Eve of the New
> * Millenium. You bastards, I hope that this Millenium will be for you
> * just like it was under Stalin. I used to feel sorry for you but now I
> * think you deserved everything you ot - bloody baby killers.
>
> Is that coming from someone who approved firing similar missiles at
> Yugoslavian children?
Very glib remark.
Somewhat like saying, no matter what it is: "and in America they lynch
Negroes!"
Did NATO fire the equivalent of scuds (which are inaccurate, BLINDLY INTO A
CITY filled with civilians?
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
>
char*p="char*p=%c%s%c;main(){printf(p,34,p,34);}";main(){printf(p,34,p,34);}
> http://www.algebra.com/~ichudov
>
Flight_of_the_Phoenix_
> Flight_of_the_Phoenix_ <Flight_of_t...@email.msn.com> wrote:
> *
> * Igor <ig...@Algebra.Com> wrote in message
> * news:slrn86qvn...@manifold.algebra.com...
> * > Mark <retu...@sender.com> wrote:
> * > * So the Russians have fired Scuds on Chechnia on the Eve of the New
> * > * Millenium. You bastards, I hope that this Millenium will be for you
> * > * just like it was under Stalin. I used to feel sorry for you but now
I
> * > * think you deserved everything you ot - bloody baby killers.
> * >
> * > Is that coming from someone who approved firing similar missiles at
> * > Yugoslavian children?
> *
> * Very glib remark.
> * Somewhat like saying, no matter what it is: "and in America they lynch
> * Negroes!"
>
> * Did NATO fire the equivalent of scuds (which are inaccurate, BLINDLY
INTO A
> * CITY filled with civilians?
>
> Huh? Of course. Hundreds of them, as well as cluster bombs etc.
Govno!
Breshesh yak Sovok!
Into Cities? Deliberately!
Hemno e Govno! (take your sovok pick! You fuckers don't use toilet paper
anyway!)
>For
> instance, in Nis, about a dozen people were killed by cluster bombs
> when they fell on their marketplace.
"For instance"? Like this happened all the fuckin' time, eh?
Don't you get tired of your own bullshit Sovok "cleverness" Igor? Like NATO
bombed the shit out of every village and city
the way the fuckin' Russo-mongolian horde did/does in Chechna, right? As in
both the First and now Second Chechen War, you lowest form of Aziat savages!
Who the fuck do you think you are talking to when you talk to *ME* like
that?
Talk like that to YOUR OWN KIND! They are stupid, and will believe what they
are told to believe. Fucking kollectiviste.... ever since the days of the
Golden and Red Hordes. Isn't that right Igor?... the "partynaya lineya".
Not one of you brain dead fucks ever came out against the horde in Chechna!
Not a fucking one of you! Fucking komsomolskaya pravda!
P'tfu!
"and in Amerika you lynch Negroes!" Shitty self serving sovok "logic", no
wonder the world hates the Russo-mongolian.
simu...@my-deja.com
it can afford with its very limited monetary resources. It is totally
ridiculous to excuse the West's terrorism--i.e. its admitted targeting
of intrinsically non-military or civilian infrastructure in order to
bring "the war home to the Serbs"--simply because it is rich enough to
afford far more expensive and effectively precise weaponry. You are
basically attacking Russia for being so poor as to be unable to afford
the kind of expensive, high-tech military toys the West has.
In article <e9pgTUBV$GA.169@cpmsnbbsa05>,
"Flight_of_the_Phoenix_" <Flight_of_t...@email.msn.com> wrote:
>
> Igor <ig...@Algebra.Com> wrote in message
> news:slrn86qvn...@manifold.algebra.com...
> Very glib remark.
> Did NATO fire the equivalent of scuds (which are inaccurate, BLINDLY
INTO A
> CITY filled with civilians?
>
> >
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------------------
------
> --
> >
> char*p="char*p=%c%s%c;main(){printf(p,34,p,34);}";main(){printf
(p,34,p,34);}
> > http://www.algebra.com/~ichudov
> >
>
>
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Frank Discussion
>Did NATO fire the equivalent of scuds (which are inaccurate, BLINDLY INTO A
>CITY filled with civilians?
Of course not. They simply dropped cluster munitions on urban areas,
and precision GBU-100's on refugee columns.
Oh, and the Scud is inaccurate, but the SS-24 isn't.
Mark
against Yugoslavia.
Unfortunatelly, Russia has now proved no different from Nato.
Neither Putin nor Albright will achieve greatness through the blood of
innocent kids who happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Flight_of_the_Phoenix_ wrote in message ...
>
>Igor <ig...@Algebra.Com> wrote in message
>news:slrn86qvn...@manifold.algebra.com...
>> * So the Russians have fired Scuds on Chechnia on the Eve of the New
>> * Millenium. You bastards, I hope that this Millenium will be for you
>> * just like it was under Stalin. I used to feel sorry for you but now I
>> * think you deserved everything you ot - bloody baby killers.
>>
>
>Very glib remark.
>
>Did NATO fire the equivalent of scuds (which are inaccurate, BLINDLY INTO A
>CITY filled with civilians?
>
>
>>
>>
-
>--
>>
Mark
maternity hospital killing dozens of new born kids. They bombed the Greek
doctors trying to tend the wounded Serbian civilians who were bombed while
trying to flee Kosovo. Nato is deliberately winding up the Albanians who
kill daily the non-Albanians in kosovo - 2,000 since Nato took care of it.
Not to mention 300,000 people ethnically cleansed from Kosovo by Nato/KLA.
You should check why Nato is being now investigated by the War Tribunal -
pilots with some consiousness testified to being ordered to bomb civilians
on purpose - Nato pilots that is.
Flight_of_the_Phoenix_ wrote in message ...
>Igor <ig...@Algebra.Com> wrote in message
>> Flight_of_the_Phoenix_ <Flight_of_t...@email.msn.com> wrote:
>> *
>> * Igor <ig...@Algebra.Com> wrote in message
>> * news:slrn86qvn...@manifold.algebra.com...
>> * > Mark <retu...@sender.com> wrote:
>> * > * Millenium. You bastards, I hope that this Millenium will be for
you
>> * > * just like it was under Stalin. I used to feel sorry for you but
now
>I
>> * > * think you deserved everything you ot - bloody baby killers.
>> * >
>> * > Is that coming from someone who approved firing similar missiles at
>> * > Yugoslavian children?
>> *
>> * Very glib remark.
>> * Negroes!"
>>
>> * Did NATO fire the equivalent of scuds (which are inaccurate, BLINDLY
>INTO A
Flight_of_the_Phoenix_
civilians) that is _deliberate_.
go read some Noam Chomsky, and other left wing bullshit.
Mark <retu...@sender.com> wrote in message
news:84kvea$2qr3$1...@quince.news.easynet.net...
Flight_of_the_Phoenix_
because "that's all they can afford and all they can do" in effect. Right?
-------------------
<simu...@my-deja.com> wrote in message news:84kgrb$obg$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> You are not thinking rationally. Impoverished Russia can only use what
> it can afford with its very limited monetary resources. It is totally
> ridiculous to excuse the West's terrorism--i.e. its admitted targeting
> of intrinsically non-military or civilian infrastructure in order to
> bring "the war home to the Serbs"--simply because it is rich enough to
> afford far more expensive and effectively precise weaponry. You are
> basically attacking Russia for being so poor as to be unable to afford
> the kind of expensive, high-tech military toys the West has.
>
> In article <e9pgTUBV$GA.169@cpmsnbbsa05>,
> "Flight_of_the_Phoenix_" <Flight_of_t...@email.msn.com> wrote:
> >
> > Igor <ig...@Algebra.Com> wrote in message
> > news:slrn86qvn...@manifold.algebra.com...
> > Very glib remark.
> > Did NATO fire the equivalent of scuds (which are inaccurate, BLINDLY
> INTO A
> > CITY filled with civilians?
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > --------------------------------------------------------------------
> ------
> > --
> > >
Flight_of_the_Phoenix_
IF it was NATO "policy" to bomb civilians... GIVEN ALL THE HARDWARE AT
NATO'S DISPOSAL... IT'S APPARANT TO ALL BUT *FOOLS*, that they could have
"done a much better job of it".
Why not ALL the maternity hospitals? (boo-hoo! left wing "proof", eh?) For
that matter, why not ALL hospitals, orphanages and old folks homes?
Plus, you mix in *OTHER* issues as your "aha! Proofs of deliberate CIVILIAN
BOMBINGS!" Which have - no bearing -
on the aforementioned, "deliberate civilian bombings", in an ^attempt^ (bad
one at that) to shore up your false statement that there were such (again!)
"deliberate civilian bombings".
In short, you are saying and bringing in everything you can, while "reaching
for shit".
This is manipulative, LYING, and bullshit and you KNOW IT, which is why you
feel forced to be so "clever" and write like this, correct?
Flight_of_the_Phoenix_ <Flight_of_t...@email.msn.com> wrote in
message news:ui8KO1FV$GA.319@cpmsnbbsa02...
> bullshit "logic" to say that because it happened (inadvertant bombing of
> civilians) that is _deliberate_.
>
> go read some Noam Chomsky, and other left wing bullshit.
>
> Mark <retu...@sender.com> wrote in message
> news:84kvea$2qr3$1...@quince.news.easynet.net...
> > Yes, Nato bombed the civilians, deliberately. On 29.05.1999 they bombed
> the
> > maternity hospital killing dozens of new born kids. They bombed the
Greek
> > doctors trying to tend the wounded Serbian civilians who were bombed
while
> > trying to flee Kosovo. Nato is deliberately winding up the Albanians who
> > kill daily the non-Albanians in kosovo - 2,000 since Nato took care of
it.
> > Not to mention 300,000 people ethnically cleansed from Kosovo by
Nato/KLA.
> > You should check why Nato is being now investigated by the War
Tribunal -
> > pilots with some consiousness testified to being ordered to bomb
civilians
> > on purpose - Nato pilots that is.
> > Flight_of_the_Phoenix_ wrote in message ...
> > >Igor <ig...@Algebra.Com> wrote in message
> > >> * Did NATO fire the equivalent of scuds (which are inaccurate,
BLINDLY
> > >INTO A
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > -
> > >--
> > >>
> >
>
Flight_of_the_Phoenix_
Flight_of_the_Phoenix_ <Flight_of_t...@email.msn.com> wrote in
message news:eRSoz2FV$GA.223@cpmsnbbsa02...
> So the Russians bomb the shit out of everything, everywhere,
> because "that's all they can afford and all they can do" in effect. Right?
>
> -------------------
> <simu...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:84kgrb$obg$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> > You are not thinking rationally. Impoverished Russia can only use what
> > it can afford with its very limited monetary resources.
Then if that is the case and they can not afford to do such brutal, stupid
shit, then perhaps @ssholes like you and the Russo-mongolians, shouldn't be
doing such stupid shit.. because they can't afford it, which is NOT
"thinking rationally", right or wrong?
> It is totally
> > ridiculous to excuse the West's terrorism--i.e. its admitted targeting
> > of intrinsically non-military or civilian infrastructure in order to
> > bring "the war home to the Serbs"--simply because it is rich enough to
> > afford far more expensive and effectively precise weaponry. You are
> > basically attacking Russia for being so poor as to be unable to afford
> > the kind of expensive, high-tech military toys the West has.
No stupid! I am NOT:
====
"> > basically attacking Russia for being so poor as to be unable to afford
> > the kind of expensive, high-tech military toys the West has."
====
I am attacking Russo-mongolians AND their appologists, for being STUPID,
VICIOUS, BRUTAL, SAVAGE, NOT FOR BEING POOR!
TAKE THE SHIT FROM BETWEEN YOUR EARS, AND START "thinking rationally".
Get it?
(damn what a stupid fuck you indeed are!)
> >
> > In article <e9pgTUBV$GA.169@cpmsnbbsa05>,
> > "Flight_of_the_Phoenix_" <Flight_of_t...@email.msn.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > Igor <ig...@Algebra.Com> wrote in message
> > > news:slrn86qvn...@manifold.algebra.com...
> > > Very glib remark.
> > > Did NATO fire the equivalent of scuds (which are inaccurate, BLINDLY
> > INTO A
> > > CITY filled with civilians?
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------
> > ------
> > > --
> > > >
THE FRENCHMAN
Igor <ig...@Algebra.Com> wrote in message
> Flight_of_the_Phoenix_ <Flight_of_t...@email.msn.com> wrote:
> *
> * Igor <ig...@Algebra.Com> wrote in message
> * news:slrn86qvn...@manifold.algebra.com...
> * > Mark <retu...@sender.com> wrote:
> * > * So the Russians have fired Scuds on Chechnia on the Eve of the New
> * > * Millenium. You bastards, I hope that this Millenium will be for you
> * > * just like it was under Stalin. I used to feel sorry for you but now
I
> * > * think you deserved everything you ot - bloody baby killers.
> * >
> * > Is that coming from someone who approved firing similar missiles at
> * > Yugoslavian children?
> *
> * Very glib remark.
> * Somewhat like saying, no matter what it is: "and in America they lynch
> * Negroes!"
>
INTO A
> * CITY filled with civilians?
>
> instance, in Nis, about a dozen people were killed by cluster bombs
> when they fell on their marketplace.
Nana Bukhsianidze
You are right on complete absence of moral right of West on criticizing
anyone for mass murders, but Russians have to learn that Russia is a country
of those whom they call "blacks" besides "white" Russians, they have to stop
hatred toward "persons on Caucasian origin", otherwise existence of hated
Chechens and Lezgins in Russian federation becomes nonsense (as they seem to
be target of mass abhorrence). which means they have to go with their lands
too.
Russia as multinational country has to find concept of tolerance within
itself not dictated from communist ideology. And I don't think it is not
possible.. quite opposite.
yelena <yel...@arthur.avalon.net> wrote in message
news:Pine.HPP.3.96.100010...@arthur.avalon.net...
>
>
> Sunday, May 30, 1999
>
> NATO Bombing Wreaks Carnage On Serbian Town Bridge
> By JULIJANA MOJSILOVIC, Reuters
>
Josh L.
There's a difference Igor. The bombs that NATO delivered were highly
targeted and the target list was approved by all NATO countries. Given that
more bombs were dropped by the US than in WWII, there would be many more
than the 1,000 casualties that the Serb government has claimed. Please
show me a single credible report that NATO deliberate targeted children.
This isn't too say that the results weren't horrible in some cases. Nobody
approves of the death of civilians, and any killing of children is
regretted. It's tragic that innocents are killed when going after
legitimate military targets.
This is totally contrasted with what the Russian army has described as
"indiscriminate" shelling of Grozny. The Scuds are notoriously inaccurate;
the Russians have been carpet bombing the towns and villages of Grozny, with
no regard to the civilians. NATO did not do this.
Josh
Igor <ig...@Algebra.Com> wrote in message
news:slrn86qvn...@manifold.algebra.com...
> Mark <retu...@sender.com> wrote:
> * So the Russians have fired Scuds on Chechnia on the Eve of the New
> * Millenium. You bastards, I hope that this Millenium will be for you
> * just like it was under Stalin. I used to feel sorry for you but now I
> * think you deserved everything you ot - bloody baby killers.
>
> Is that coming from someone who approved firing similar missiles at
> Yugoslavian children?
PacMan
standards more apparent. You post article after article deploring the
loss of civilian life in Yugoslavia then became a rabid cheerleader
for it as soon as it's being inflicted by your own country.You're a
contemptible hypocrite from a country of contemptible hypocrites. I
suggest you go back there and stop polluting the West with your
presence.
X O P O III O
Flight_of_the_Phoenix_
news:Pine.HPP.3.96.100010...@arthur.avalon.net...
>
Not what I want... What Russians want with _deliberately_
wanton and inaccurate and massive fire power in all of Chechna. Did you know
that one of the *first* targets hit in Chechna when the Russo-mongols
invaded was a hospital?
Let me repeat that, one of the *first* targets.
As you see from the below article of yours, military "fire control" is NOT
an easy thing to achieve in war. Even for the West.
Now imagine a bunch of ill bred, untrained, undisciplined, looting, poorly
fed, clothed, and stupid, drunken hoarde of Russo-mongolians?
With not only inferior Russo-mongolian troops, but inferior weaponry and
traditional savagery and a disregard and disrespect for human life as always
was culturaly incolcated in them. Correct?
The "fuel air bombs" that Russians like to use, *indescrimitately*, (along
with the very inaccurate Scud missiles against the *city* of Grozny) because
it's cheaper is an analog of the cluster bomb in a way. The only thing, is
that it's in the greasy bear paws of Russians who don't give a shit where or
how it's used just so long as it goes:
"B O O O O M"- and the Russo-mongolians, can take a swig out of their vodka
bottles, hoot and hollar, do a little jig in their dirty and torn uniforms,
with the holes showing in their ass and say, "is a good one! Much fire! Ho
boy!!! We show them Russian power! HA!"
No one in the WEST wanted -any- civilian losses. IF they did, there wouldn't
be a Serbian left at all, right? There would have also been FAR more damage
then that of a *A* maternity hospital and *A* marketplace that was hit,
etc.. that you *constantly* repeat as "PROOF!!!" of _deliberate_ and
*CONSTANT* civilian targeting.
NATO - a consortium - of many nations (unlike your sacred and one and only
barabric Russia) didn't want to hear the "see! see! see! Proof! Proof!
Proof!" that you stupid assholes constantly repeat. That you think by
constantly LYING and REPEATING *SHIT*, you can convince others or try to
#-divert- # attention from the fact that the Russo-mongolian savages are
just that, STUPID EVIL SAVAGES that are good for shit.
Nor did NATO ground troop go off and loot, get drunk and shoot the fuck out
of cows, tractors, kids, everthing that moved, everywhere and behave like
fucking scumbags, did they?
Were the Russo-mongolian hordes so pleasant and mannerly?
NOT A FUCKIN' ONE OF YOU ASSHOLES HAS COME OUT AND PUBLICLY POSTED THAT
WHAT'S HAPENNING IN CHECHNA IS WRONG. NOT A FUCKING ONE OF YOU herded
sheep/HORDE BASTARDS HAS DONE THAT!
Think about that one..
Oh btw, speaking of your sneaky shit, I've taken the liberty to include a
few groups, the one you seem to omit ... like the future partner of NATO and
your good friends, the Bulgarians.
Seems you liked to SCREAM at them when the Serbs were getting bombed by NATO
but you do not like to include them when in comes to Chechna for some
unknown reason. (hate this sneaking around sovok stuff that you people do)
I do know, when the future NATO member, the Bulgarians come in, you Sovoks
shut up a little.
Btw, sell the Russians the cluster bomb and some Western fire control
systems along with it as a package deal.. this way you won't have to scream
so hysterically and loudly to fool people.
What happened to your sig file? The Bulgarians will miss it!
>
> Warfare's well-kept secret weapon
>
> By Norman Solomon
>
> Hi! My name is CBU-87/B, but let's not be formal. A lot of my friends call
> me Cluster Bomb.
>
> I've been busy lately, doing what I'm supposed to. And I sure appreciate
> the careful treatment I receive from the American news media.
>
> My pals at the Pentagon put me in the category of a "Combined Effects
> Munition." My maker describes me as an "all-purpose, air-delivered cluster
> weapons system." Not to brag or anything, but such labels don't do me
> justice. When I explode, the results can really be quite awesome.
>
> I have gotten to do my stuff in Yugoslavia this month. One of my memorable
> performances came at around noon on a Friday. Some people in the city of
> Nis were shopping at a vegetable market when boom! I arrived. It was
> dramatic as hell.
>
> A news article in the May 8 San Francisco Chronicle reported that "the
> bombs struck next to the hospital complex and near the market, bringing
> death and destruction, peppering the streets of Serbia's third-largest
> city with shrapnel and littering the courtyards with yellow bomb casings."
>
> This was one of my few moments in the U.S. media limelight, so forgive me
> while I quote some more: "In a street leading from the market, dismembered
> bodies were strewn among carrots and other vegetables in pools of blood. A
> dead woman, her body covered with a sheet, was still clutching a shopping
> bag filled with carrots."
>
> I know, it's immodest to flaunt my press notices. But people don't get to
> see those sorts of news accounts very much in America. If the stories are
> reported at all, they're usually buried (ha ha) on back pages of
> newspapers and rarely even mentioned on the networks.
>
> Once in a while, some Western journalist decides to put me down. The
> moralizing can be unpleasant. For instance, BBC correspondent John
> Simpson, reporting from Belgrade, did a rather brusque commentary for the
> Sunday Telegraph in London.
>
> "In Novi Sad and Nis," he wrote, "and several other places across Serbia
> and Kosovo where there are no foreign journalists, heavier bombing has
> brought more accidents." He complained that cluster bombs "explode in the
> air and hurl shards of shrapnel over a wide radius." And he went on to
> say: "Used against human beings, cluster bombs are some of the most savage
> weapons of modern warfare."
>
> Spare me the overheated pejoratives, thank you.
>
> Fortunately, I hardly ever have to endure such indignities in the American
> press.
>
> But don't forget the very real accomplishments that I can partially claim
> as my own. The next time you see a headline or hear a newscaster referring
> to the "air campaign," remember that my achievements are outrageously
> understated by such jargon!
>
> I'm a 1,000-pound marvel, a cluster bomb with an ingenious design. When I
> go off, a couple of hundred "bomblets" shoot out in all directions, aided
> by little parachutes that look like inverted umbrellas.
>
> Those chutes slow down the descent of the bomblets and disperse them so
> they'll hit plenty of what my maker calls "soft targets." Before that
> happens, though, each bomblet breaks into about 300 pieces of jagged steel
> shrapnel.
>
> Sometimes, as a cluster bomb, I get a little jealous of the exaggerated
> notoriety that the news media confer on outfits like the National Rifle
> Association. They get credited with the proliferation of murder and
> mayhem. Well, they're rank amateurs! Piddling sidearms pushers! Compared
> to me, they're small-time retailers. I'm into wholesale.
>
> I just laugh when I read the nasty things that so many pundits have been
> writing about the NRA. While they rant and rail against assault rifles
> that take a few lives now and again in the United States, I've been busy
> slicing up tender human bodies in Yugoslavia.
>
> When those high school students died in Colorado, the news media kept
> saying what a horrendous tragedy it was. But what about the work I've done
> on kids and grownups in Yugoslavia? Journalists merely echo the statements
> coming out of the White House, mumbling that it's regrettable and can't be
> helped.
>
> The pundits keep talking about gun control. Meanwhile, big bombs like me
> are more and more out of control as we roam the skies above Yugoslavia.
>
> Overall, this has been a great spring for me. And from the standpoint of
> public relations, I'm doing fine. Back in the offices of top Washington
> officials, and in the upper echelons of American news media, I've got lots
> of friends in very high places. They may pretend not to know me, but we
> understand each other very well.
>
>
> Norman Solomon's latest book is "The Habits of Highly Deceptive Media."
>
>
>
Flight_of_the_Phoenix_
PacMan <Pac...@nwo.org> wrote in message
news:spos6s40s8fjdds83...@4ax.com...
Flight_of_the_Phoenix_
Igor <ig...@Algebra.Com> wrote in message
> Josh L. <feed...@myhouse.com> wrote:
> *
> * There's a difference Igor. The bombs that NATO delivered were highly
> * targeted and the target list was approved by all NATO countries. Given
that
>
> Are you saying that just because more countries approved targets,
> that their selection is somehow guaranteed to be free of civilian
> targets?
No he didn't say that! Stop being weaselmouthed Igor! Doesn't fool anyone
except a Sovok! The *clear* implication is that targets were agreed upon and
as much as war allows, were not civilian in nature, i.e., the countries
involved did NOT approve of orphanages or the maternity hospital that you
Sovoks like to SHOUT as "proof" of deliberate civilian targeting. Can you
imagine all countries getting together, and saying, "OK, let's get that
maternity hospital so that we can get some bad publicity and that every
asshole/Sovok can scream so that later when the Russo-mongolian hoardes act
shitty, they can scream about the hospital to "fool everybody".
Get it now?
>
> * more bombs were dropped by the US than in WWII, there would be many more
> * than the 1,000 casualties that the Serb government has claimed. Please
> * show me a single credible report that NATO deliberate targeted children.
>
> I am not aware of Russia deliberately targeting civilians, as such,
either.
> It simply blasts chechen rebels wherever they are.
And whereever the fuck they lob sloppily, in the usual "precision" Russian
fashion, there are (not "rebels") freedom fighters. Guess they are
everywhere! Kill 'em all!
Like when Geneal Lebed said about the Chechens, you'd have to kill every
Chechen between the ages of (?) 10 and (?) 50.
Guess the Russians listened to him... what do you think?
>
> * This isn't too say that the results weren't horrible in some cases.
Nobody
> * approves of the death of civilians, and any killing of children is
> * regretted. It's tragic that innocents are killed when going after
> * legitimate military targets.
>
> Exactly.
>
> I don't think that the conduct of the war by Russia is somehow more humane
> than the conduct of war by NATO. But it is not less humane.
You're talking out of both sides of your mouth and your ass!
>
> * This is totally contrasted with what the Russian army has described as
> * "indiscriminate" shelling of Grozny. The Scuds are notoriously
inaccurate;
> * the Russians have been carpet bombing the towns and villages of Grozny,
with
> * no regard to the civilians. NATO did not do this.
>
> There is no such thing as "the towns and villages of Grozny".
There is no such thing as a Russian that can think or talk straight.
>
> igor
>
> * Josh
> *
> * Igor <ig...@Algebra.Com> wrote in message
> * news:slrn86qvn...@manifold.algebra.com...
> * > Mark <retu...@sender.com> wrote:
> * > * So the Russians have fired Scuds on Chechnia on the Eve of the New
> * > * Millenium. You bastards, I hope that this Millenium will be for you
> * > * just like it was under Stalin. I used to feel sorry for you but now
I
> * > * think you deserved everything you ot - bloody baby killers.
> * >
> * > Is that coming from someone who approved firing similar missiles at
> * > Yugoslavian children?
> * >
> * >
> *
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> * --
> * >
> *
char*p="char*p=%c%s%c;main(){printf(p,34,p,34);}";main(){printf(p,34,p,34);}
> * > http://www.algebra.com/~ichudov
> * >
> *
> *
>
>
> --
Flight_of_the_Phoenix_
go along... or they research quack sites..
that "proves" to them what they WANT TO BELIEVE, because it's very
convienient for them, I guess..
Dungbeetle <Anonymous...@See.Comment.Header> wrote in message
news:2000010121...@berlin.neuropa.net...
> On Sat, 1 Jan 2000 12:04:31 -0600 yelena <yel...@arthur.avalon.net>
> wrote:
>
> >
> > Spanish Fighter Pilots Admit NATO Purposely Attacks Civilian
> > Targets
> >
> > June 14, 1999 Articulo 20 (Spain-weekly)
> > By Jose Luis Morales
> >
> Somehow, the Serb propaganda ministry has been unable to come up with a
> reliable URL for this supposed "article", despite six months of demands
> that they do so.
>
> Don't they understand just how silly they look?
>
> --
> 01:25 General Dragoljub Ojdanic, nacelnik Generalstaba VJ, saopstio je
> zvanicne podatke po kojima je RV i PVO VJ oborilo 61 NATO avion, 30
> bespilotnih letelica, 7 helikoptera i 238 krstarecih raketa. General
> Dragoljub Ojdanic, chief of FRY Army Generalstaff, have announced that
> Combat Air force and Air Defence units downed 61 NATO airplane, 30
> pilotless aircraft, 7 helicopters and 238 cruise missiles.
>
> http://www.inet.co.yu/war/info/tekst03-06-1-e.html
>
> Mr Goran Matic, said that terrified refugees fleeing from Kosovo were
> in fact actors taking part in a NATO directed film screenplay. Mr Matic
> said that 3,000 - 4,000 ethnic Albanians were paid $5.50 each to act
> the parts of Kosovar refugees fleeing Yugoslavia in the first days of
> the NATO airstrikes. Mr Matic claimed further that the refugee crisis
> began when these refugees tried to return home, not having been paid. I
> must say that of all the hypotheses and theories put forward in recent
> days to explain the terrible outpouring of refugees from Kosovo, this
> one probably qualifies for the sick joke of the year award. Instead of
> being paid $5.50 to leave, the truth is that refugees have to pay -
> they have to pay - 3,000 deutschmarks to leave with their lives.
> Instead of being given a screen identity, they lose their real
> identities when they have to hand over their passports and their
> documents, their properties, their most intimate possessions, and be
> separated from their loved ones."
>
> "Lying is a form of our patriotism and is evidence of our innate
> intelligence. We lie in a creative, imaginative, and inventive way."
>
> Dobrica COSIC - former president of Yugoslavia.
> http://www.magyarszo.com/slobous6.html
>
> There's also the bogus "transcript" of a NATO pilot talking to an AWACs
> controller, written by a ten-year-old who's read too many comic books.
>
> And then there were the US soldiers in body bags being shipped through
> Greece, and the US planes flying over Kosovo in swastika formation...
>
>
>
Flight_of_the_Phoenix_
Dungbeetle <Anonymous...@See.Comment.Header> wrote in message
news:2000010121...@berlin.neuropa.net...
> wrote:
>
> >Sunday, May 2, 1999
> >
> >DISPATCH FROM KOSOVO: NATO Bombs Civilian Bus,
> >Causing Scenes of Horror War: At least 24 die when vehicle
> >crossing bridge is torn in half.
>
> We've actually seen this before. Really. It was on CNN.
The hated by Sovoks, CNN..
We've actually seen ALL of this before... beats talking about Chechna I
guess...
"Clever", isn't it?
> It is truly amazing that NATO bombs are so very precise that they can
> bomb Serbia for 78 days and nights and only miss their targets five
> times out of 30,000 bombs.
>
> At the beginning of the campaign, no one believed that a Serb
> capitulation could be achieved without a ground campaign, and
> completely without combat casualties.
>
> But students of Operation Flash and Operation Storm might have been
> able to predict such an outcome.
>
>
>
Tengiz Kapanadze
yelena wrote:
> If it's massacred civilians you want, try a cluster bomb.
>
Josh L.
yelena <yel...@arthur.avalon.net> wrote in message
news:Pine.HPP.3.96.100010...@arthur.avalon.net...
>
>
> Tuesday, May 4, 1999
>
> DISPATCH FROM KOSOVO NATO Bombs Kill 17 More
> Civilians Assault: Bus is second one hit in two days.
Yelena, do you know how ridiculous this reads? NATO has already admitted to
horrible incidents killing civilians. If they wanted to kill Serb
civilians, they just could have carpet bombed Belgrade or Nis. That's not
what happened.
The Serb/Russian approach would earn a lot more credibility if you weren't
pointing to foolish examples.
Josh L.
> Are you saying that just because more countries approved targets,
> that their selection is somehow guaranteed to be free of civilian
> targets?
No, we are not guaranteed...war is horrible and civilians die. Intent DOES
matter...if it didn't, the US is guilty of war crimes for Dresden and Russia
is guilty of the same for bombing Warsaw and Berlin. Hundreds of thousands
of civilians died in both of those places...but Russian had to do it to
defeat evil.
>
> * more bombs were dropped by the US than in WWII, there would be many more
> * than the 1,000 casualties that the Serb government has claimed. Please
> * show me a single credible report that NATO deliberate targeted children.
>
> I am not aware of Russia deliberately targeting civilians, as such,
either.
> It simply blasts chechen rebels wherever they are.
But what if that means blasting villages? NATO didn't carpet bomb Belgrade
or Nis - if they did nothing would stand in those cities. You still have to
show respect for civilians....the accounts I've ready, which are admittedly
sketchy, talk about Russians destroying everything in their way. But I
admit that Russia has a much more legitimate interest in Chenya than the
Serbs in Kosovo.
>
> * This isn't too say that the results weren't horrible in some cases.
Nobody
> * approves of the death of civilians, and any killing of children is
> * regretted. It's tragic that innocents are killed when going after
> * legitimate military targets.
>
> Exactly.
>
> I don't think that the conduct of the war by Russia is somehow more humane
> than the conduct of war by NATO. But it is not less humane.
It certainly is less humane if you indiscriminately kill civilians. Is
Russia doing everything it can to prevent civilian casaulties? What about
the executions reported last week on Russian tv carried out by Russian
forces? What about the looting? Are you sure that these things aren't
going on.
I'm not aware of NATO executing Serbs or looting. And please, dont' bring
up the bombing deaths again. They are horrible, it happened, and Nato
admitted it.
>
> * This is totally contrasted with what the Russian army has described as
> * "indiscriminate" shelling of Grozny. The Scuds are notoriously
inaccurate;
> * the Russians have been carpet bombing the towns and villages of Grozny,
with
> * no regard to the civilians. NATO did not do this.
>
> There is no such thing as "the towns and villages of Grozny"
Oopss, my mistake. I mean Chechnya..too much partying last night.
Flight_of_the_Phoenix_
news:84lv1p$6bl0$1...@newssvr03-int.news.prodigy.com...
Yelena can't help it. Diversion is an old Bolshevik tactic.
There is no comparison.
A diciplined NATO army, doing the best it can to minimize civilian casulties
versus a savage horde of drunken Russo-mongolians, rampaging, looting,
killing and bombing indiscriminately. They all know it. This is a
manipulative technique to keep screaming, lying and being cunning. Look at
all of the them! They are ALL doing it.
Parroting the same concepts, hooting and making noises like:
"look at what NATO did in Serbia!"
It won't "sell". Too obvious a lie. Doesn't stop them all from trying. The
most sophisticated of them all is Igor Chudov, the khan of the internet
sovok hordes.
He sends out the fools, women, kretins and then calmly tries to say the
equivalent of ... "well, you know.. it's all the same thing... sigh!"
He's the most brutal of them all. He knows what he's doing, he just uses the
hordes of his as cannon fodder, figuring he's got the numbers, there being
more of the savages.
Flight_of_the_Phoenix_
Igor <ig...@Algebra.Com> wrote in message
> Flight_of_the_Phoenix_ <Flight_of_t...@email.msn.com> wrote:
> * It won't "sell". Too obvious a lie. Doesn't stop them all from trying.
The
> * most sophisticated of them all is Igor Chudov, the khan of the internet
> * sovok hordes.
> *
> * He sends out the fools, women, kretins and then calmly tries to say the
> * equivalent of ... "well, you know.. it's all the same thing... sigh!"
> *
> * He's the most brutal of them all. He knows what he's doing, he just uses
the
> * hordes of his as cannon fodder, figuring he's got the numbers, there
being
> * more of the savages.
>
> I am rather flattered.
Brutal Sovok savage that you are, I am not at all surprised!
(damn! shoulda written it as "He sends out the fools, women, kretins and"
_pederase_ . Too late now though.)
Still, it's true..
I'm not wrong in this summation.
Ya know Igor,
that's why it would be better if "you came out of the closet" and were more
consistent, not only about your involvement with individual Chechens and the
bombings ... but Chechna in general. You know the logic.
(Ras)Putin would listen to you, you know... or you wouldn't let him post in
russias-moderated anymore then me.
Btw, is it still alive?
Flight_of_the_Phoenix_
Igor <ig...@Algebra.Com> wrote in message
> Flight_of_the_Phoenix_ <Flight_of_t...@email.msn.com> wrote:
> * Brutal Sovok savage that you are, I am not at all surprised!
> * (damn! shoulda written it as "He sends out the fools, women, kretins
and"
> * _pederase_ . Too late now though.)
>
> Hm... Why are you holding women in the same regard as "fools and
> cretins and pederasts"?
Not really... besides, there was a specific entity that is
D E E P into these aspects.
The line that you refer to by me is actually part of a line adapted from
_Justine_ (?) or was it _Juliette_ (?) by de Sade.
>
> * Still, it's true..
> * I'm not wrong in this summation.
> *
> * Ya know Igor,
> * that's why it would be better if "you came out of the closet" and were
more
> * consistent, not only about your involvement with individual Chechens and
the
> * bombings ... but Chechna in general. You know the logic.
>
> Personally, I think that it's really shitty to have Chechens
> as neighbors... As well as, I have to concede, it is shitty to have
> Russians as neighbors.
East Europeans in general you can say ... but Sovoks of all flavors tend to
be more unpleasant as a general rule.
The difference is the level of general "hamstvo" IMHO.
>
> * (Ras)Putin would listen to you, you know... or you wouldn't let him
post in
> * russias-moderated anymore then me.
>
> Actually, you do post to the moderated newsgroup.
Since when?
Last time I recall trying to post there, some Uke prostitutka censored me.
>
> * Btw, is it still alive?
So is it? And what sort of traffic if it is, top of your head numbers/time.
> *
> *
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> * --
> * >
> *
char*p="char*p=%c%s%c;main(){printf(p,34,p,34);}";main(){printf(p,34,p,34);}
> * > http://www.algebra.com/~ichudov
> * >
> *
> *
>
>
> --
Mark
Can you refresh my memory?
NB The Spanish pilots' testimonies are included in the file against Nato
presented to Del Ponte last week.
And no, it's not Serbia which presented it.
Dungbeetle wrote in message <2000010121...@berlin.neuropa.net>...
Mark
dead since Albright imposed the embargo.
And in case you haven't noticed, Serbia is now under sanctions, too.
Josh L. wrote in message <84lv1p$6bl0$1...@newssvr03-int.news.prodigy.com>...
Mark
In other words, the Albanians are doing the dirty job.
Most of the over 2,000 civilians executed since Nato took over Kosovo were
the elderly and infirm.
The first arrest of an Albanian killer was made last week - a 26 year old
Albanian was arrested for executing an 65 old Serb men in front of his wife
and mother in law(in her 80s). Both women were brutally beaten.
KFOR recently admitted that a handful of Serb kids in Pristina, Kosovo, went
out FOUR times in the past 5 months escorted by the KFOR soldiers.
In UK, prisoners have the right to be outside for at least one hour each
day.
Josh L. wrote in message <84lve5$8p2u$1...@newssvr03-int.news.prodigy.com>...
Grantland
vomited:
<ugh>
Bigot foulmouth. Go lynch some niggers you turd.
Grantland
deepshooter
"Flight_of_the_Phoenix_" <Flight_of_t...@email.msn.com> wrote:
> Josh L. <feed...@myhouse.com> wrote in message
> news:84lv1p$6bl0$1...@newssvr03-int.news.prodigy.com...
> >
> > Yelena, do you know how ridiculous this reads? NATO has already
admitted
> to
> > horrible incidents killing civilians. If they wanted to kill Serb
> > civilians, they just could have carpet bombed Belgrade or Nis.
That's not
> > what happened.
> >
> > The Serb/Russian approach would earn a lot more credibility if you
weren't
> > pointing to foolish examples.
>
> Yelena can't help it. Diversion is an old Bolshevik tactic.
> There is no comparison.
>
> A diciplined NATO army, doing the best it can to minimize civilian
casulties
> versus a savage horde of drunken Russo-mongolians, rampaging, looting,
> killing and bombing indiscriminately. They all know it. This is a
> manipulative technique to keep screaming, lying and being cunning.
Look at
> all of the them! They are ALL doing it.
>
> Parroting the same concepts, hooting and making noises like:
> "look at what NATO did in Serbia!"
>
Of course, you are absolutely right. Until the Russians learn to
kill innocent children in a gentlemanly fashion like NATO, we should
have nothing to do with them.
SMOrgasmDeLUX
Flight_of_the_Phoenix is racist against Slavic peoples.
- He constantly disrespects the Russian people.
- He constantly disrespects the Serb people.
- He constantly promotes the liberal and minority loving West.
- He constantly promotes how "brave" (notice the ") Muslim warriors are.
All I can say is - blah.
Why do the Russians kill the civilians? I'll tell you why, you little bitch:
- Have the Chechnyans ever attended the Geneva Convention? Do they even know
what that is? No. So what is the Chechen war?
A guerrilla war.
And what do Muslims do in a guerrila war? Oh, they hide behind civilians, and
attack when the time is ripe. But when civilians are killed, they scream to
the international community, "war crimes!"
I think what the Russians are doing is very heroic. Look at every Muslim
nation today. Literacy rates are _extremely_ low. Muslim princes and kings
have up to twenty wives. While Christian regions let Muslims live in their
land, the Muslims will kill you in their's if you're from another religion. In
other words, what would you do if your country was a Muslim country? You'd
probably be dead. So, the Russians are preventing the dirty, devillish Muslims
from gaining any more ground. THEY ARE HEROES.
>Nor did NATO ground troop go off and >loot, get drunk and shoot the fuck out
>of cows, tractors, kids, everthing that >moved, everywhere and behave like
>fucking scumbags, did they?
Let's see. NATO shot a multi-million dollar laser guided missile at a TRACTOR.
Yes, it was all over the news, you dumb liberal. Did NATO bomb cows? I'm
damn sure they did. Sure, they also bombed everything that moved, they bombed
bridges while civilians were crossing, they bombed trains carrying refugees,
etc. The Russians are heroes, the Serbs are heroes, NATO and those crummy
Muslims are true villains. I hope they all burn. Bastards.
PacMan
<Flight_of_t...@email.msn.com> wrote:
>
>Igor <ig...@Algebra.Com> wrote in message
>news:slrn86t3p...@manifold.algebra.com...
>> Flight_of_the_Phoenix_ <Flight_of_t...@email.msn.com> wrote:
>> * It won't "sell". Too obvious a lie. Doesn't stop them all from trying.
>The
>> * most sophisticated of them all is Igor Chudov, the khan of the internet
>> * sovok hordes.
>> *
>> * He sends out the fools, women, kretins and then calmly tries to say the
>> * equivalent of ... "well, you know.. it's all the same thing... sigh!"
>> *
>> * He's the most brutal of them all. He knows what he's doing, he just uses
>the
>> * hordes of his as cannon fodder, figuring he's got the numbers, there
>being
>> * more of the savages.
>>
>> I am rather flattered.
>
>Brutal Sovok savage that you are, I am not at all surprised!
>(damn! shoulda written it as "He sends out the fools, women,
Women? He's got women? As a known frequenter of alt.romance, I think
the only women this guy's got are in his mind. Or on his hard drive.
>kretins and"
>_pederase_ . Too late now though.)
>
>Still, it's true..
>I'm not wrong in this summation.
>
>Ya know Igor,
>that's why it would be better if "you came out of the closet" and were more
>consistent, not only about your involvement with individual Chechens and the
>bombings ... but Chechna in general. You know the logic.
>
>(Ras)Putin would listen to you, you know... or you wouldn't let him post in
>russias-moderated anymore then me.
>Btw, is it still alive?
>
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
Flight_of_the_Phoenix_
>
> >
> > Dungbeetle <Anonymous...@See.Comment.Header> wrote in message
> > news:2000010121...@berlin.neuropa.net...
> > > On Sat, 1 Jan 2000 12:14:19 -0600 yelena <yel...@arthur.avalon.net>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > >Sunday, May 2, 1999
> > > >
> > > >DISPATCH FROM KOSOVO: NATO Bombs Civilian Bus,
> > > >Causing Scenes of Horror War: At least 24 die when vehicle
> > > >crossing bridge is torn in half.
> > >
> > > We've actually seen this before. Really. It was on CNN.
> >
> > The hated by Sovoks, CNN..
> > We've actually seen ALL of this before... beats talking about Chechna I
> > guess...
>
> atrocities were merely "collateral damage."
Yes. Along with *many* others.
>I have posted evidence
> otherwise. You are unable to address it, aren't you?
Wrong again! Your "evidence" is fraudulent, and in fact flatulent. Truly it
indeed "stinks". Your logic is lacking along with your veracity.
From very bold and unsupported statements by left wing "quack sites",
visited only by kooks, communists and conspiracy feteshists, wrapped up and
mixed in with other *non-related* mumbo jumbo,
you have not shown a *deliberate* attempt by NATO to cause
civilian deaths.
I have addressed your and other's many pieces of "evidence" as have others.
You pointedly did not respond to many posters, where you KNEW you could not.
Now note (again!):
A maternity hospital was bombed, as was a fruit market, etc..
When you have more bombs being dropped in ex-Yugoslavia then were in ALL OF
WWII... why do you expect a 100% rate of perfection, with no civilian
losses? Did not others tell you the same?
Or did you "forget"?
Did you forget the post where NATO countries were obviously plotting to
destroy a hospital (no less a maternity hospital)?
It was satirical, and written at length. DO NOTE, that not ONE Sovok,
*answered* that one.
To say such errors were the result of *deliberate* malice aforethought is
spurious to say the least.
Now you come "here" to snipe?
> >
> > "Clever", isn't it?
>
> It is indeed very clever of you to refuse talking about NATO/US atrocities
> while condemning Russian ones in Chechnia. You are a hypocrite.
I did not refuse such and _have_ along with others, answered you and other
members of the horde.
Did you forget that?
Obviously you indeed forgot.
Yes I do indeed, along with my fellow civilized and cultured Western people
do condemn the *deliberately* savagely carried out, brutal assault upon the
peace loving and gentle Chechen people living in an agricultural society
with their goats, cows by a wondering horde of brutal mutants, looting and
killing *indescrimnately* . Scud attacks on a city?!
Artillery attacks?
Did you "convieniently" forget these (and many other) *points* made in
my/other's posts on this very topic?
As these were -already- made, why this "clever", post suddenly now?
Or do you wish a "new ball game" starting from ground zero so that this way,
you can blot out the previous points, for a chance anew?
Try answering the point below by another poster.
Return to the points that no Sovok could answer, and #only then# write as
you do.
Until then, still your falsely speaking tongue.
Flight_of_the_Phoenix_
>
> >
> >
> > yelena <yel...@arthur.avalon.net> wrote in message
> > news:Pine.HPP.3.96.100010...@arthur.avalon.net...
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > DISPATCH FROM KOSOVO NATO Bombs Kill 17 More
> > > Civilians Assault: Bus is second one hit in two days.
> >
> >
admitted to
> > horrible incidents killing civilians. If they wanted to kill Serb
> > civilians, they just could have carpet bombed Belgrade or Nis. That's
not
> > what happened.
> >
> >
> > The Serb/Russian approach would earn a lot more credibility if you
weren't
> > pointing to foolish examples.
>
> NATO atrocities.
That is a blatant LIE.
It is also the purest deceipt!
Their is a difference between an "atrocity" and errors in war.
The point was that of *deliberate* targeting of civilians.
Don't try to change the parameters or distort them.
>
> The point of posting it was to refute some other poster's suggestion that
> NATO has not committed atrocities.
See above. As you forget *everything* so convieniently quickly.
>
> And yes, I agree with you: NATO could kill many more civilians. In
> Vietnam alone, US killed 4 million Vietnamese. An atomic
> bomb on Belgrade would finish the war in one hour.
Huh?
We are not talking Vietnam, or how quickly a city could be wiped out by
nukes. Why are you being so "clever" -again-?
Who does that fool?
>
Nana Bukhsianidze
I agree on fact that Russians should stop treating Chechen civilians as
cockroaches( if such this is the case). Comparisons and competition between
bloodiest wars and bombings in the World is not going to help anyone. Also
doesn't forgive anyone. All are equally wrong.
1.One thing, there is no reliable information coming from Chechnya, we don't
know if civilians were given chances to leave the area.
2.What are the reasons they are still there???
3.And what are the reasons Russian civilians are not demanding explanations
on high percentage of civilian casualties in Chechnya? 4.Why they need to be
depicted as murderous bastards?
5.How they actually expect that after such thing Chechnya and Chechnya's
land can be part of Russia?
6.Would they themselves be happy be part of suppose China if China bombed
them into submission and killed their children and called them derogatory
word "pinks"???
7. Did Russian people loose ability to feel companionate to others because
they place themselves over others? ( Superpower... Derjava et cetera)?
8. Shouldn't this change some day?
9.Where this way leads them as a nation?
nana
Mark <retu...@sender.com> wrote in message
news:84m61d$q9u$1...@quince.news.easynet.net...
> Second best after carpet bombing are sanctions - look at Iraq, 1/2 mln
kids
> dead since Albright imposed the embargo.
> And in case you haven't noticed, Serbia is now under sanctions, too.
> Josh L. wrote in message <84lv1p$6bl0$1...@newssvr03-int.news.prodigy.com>...
Flight_of_the_Phoenix_
>
> > Josh L. <feed...@myhouse.com> wrote:
> > *
> >
> > I am sure that they are going on.
> > * I'm not aware of NATO executing Serbs or looting.
> >
> > But how could NATO loot Serbs from 15,000 feet?
No more then Russian pilots could.
When NATO troops went in, they weren't killing cows, and just eating the
hind legs, stealing food, clothes, gold etc..
Very different from hordes of wandering, plundering Sovoks. Wasn't it?
> >
> > The NATO-supported KLA, though, looted thousands of Serbs.
Blame NATO for the looting thereby?
How clever!
Fooled us again! :)
Is it any wonder, that with such fine Russian thinking, they have what they
have?
> >
>
> NATO/Kfor supported KLA/KPC keeps looting remaining Serbs/other
> minorities, burning their houses, destroying Christian villages, killing,
> intimidating non-Albanians--all that after ethnically cleansing 200,000
> Serbs/other minorities from Kosovo. And all in NATO presence.
Don't try to be so "clever". It's too obvious.
Do not compare NATO troops with the savage hordes of Russia. Won't work.
>
simu...@my-deja.com
"Flight_of_the_Phoenix_" <Flight_of_t...@email.msn.com> wrote:
> So the Russians bomb the shit out of everything, everywhere,
> because "that's all they can afford and all they can do" in effect.
Right?
But what else can the poverty-striken Russians' do to combat Chechnya
terrorism while minimizing casualties to themselves? Obviously Russia
can not afford to allow Chechnya kidnapping, torture, smuggling, and
terrorism to continue any longer.
> -------------------
> <simu...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:84kgrb$obg$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> > You are not thinking rationally. Impoverished Russia can only use
what
> > it can afford with its very limited monetary resources. It is
totally
> > ridiculous to excuse the West's terrorism--i.e. its admitted
targeting
> > of intrinsically non-military or civilian infrastructure in order to
> > bring "the war home to the Serbs"--simply because it is rich enough
to
> > afford far more expensive and effectively precise weaponry. You are
> > basically attacking Russia for being so poor as to be unable to
afford
> > the kind of expensive, high-tech military toys the West has.
> >
> > In article <e9pgTUBV$GA.169@cpmsnbbsa05>,
> > "Flight_of_the_Phoenix_" <Flight_of_t...@email.msn.com>
wrote:
> > >
> > > Igor <ig...@Algebra.Com> wrote in message
> > > news:slrn86qvn...@manifold.algebra.com...
> > > Very glib remark.
> > > Did NATO fire the equivalent of scuds (which are inaccurate,
BLINDLY
> > INTO A
> > > CITY filled with civilians?
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------
----
> > ------
> > > --
> > > >
> > > char*p="char*p=%c%s%c;main(){printf(p,34,p,34);}";main(){printf
> > (p,34,p,34);}
> > > > http://www.algebra.com/~ichudov
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
Frank Discussion
>Let's see. NATO shot a multi-million dollar laser guided missile at a TRACTOR.
> Yes, it was all over the news, you dumb liberal. Did NATO bomb cows? I'm
>damn sure they did.
They would probably have misidentified the cow for a T-55. Blame it on
faulty identification manuals.
Mihajlo
> > Huh? Of course. Hundreds of them, as well as cluster bombs etc.
> Govno!
> Breshesh yak Sovok!
Ti si sjeban!
> Into Cities?
Yes.
> Deliberately!
No, by accident!
Moron, of course they fired missiles deliberately.
> >For
> > instance, in Nis, about a dozen people were killed by cluster bombs
> > when they fell on their marketplace.
>
> "For instance"? Like this happened all the fuckin' time, eh?
Not all the time but atleast 3-4 times.
> Like NATO
> bombed the shit out of every village and city
> the way the fuckin' Russo-mongolian horde did/does in Chechna, right?
I'm not sure what this non-existent "Russo-mongolian horde" did but yes, NATO
did bomb nearly every village and city.
> Who the fuck do you think you are talking to when you talk to *ME* like
> that?
I think I'm talking either to mentally unstable person(more likely) or some
crazy UPA fascists.
Mihajlo
Bednije gruzini.
Prezde cem kritikovat Rossiju otvet na vopros: Cem Cecnja otlicajetsja ot
Abhaziji?
Mihajlo
> On Sat, 1 Jan 2000 12:14:19 -0600 yelena <yel...@arthur.avalon.net>
> wrote:
>
> >Sunday, May 2, 1999
> >
> >DISPATCH FROM KOSOVO: NATO Bombs Civilian Bus,
> >Causing Scenes of Horror War: At least 24 die when vehicle
> >crossing bridge is torn in half.
>
> We've actually seen this before. Really. It was on CNN.
>
> It is truly amazing that NATO bombs are so very precise that they can
> bomb Serbia for 78 days and nights and only miss their targets five
> times out of 30,000 bombs.
>
> At the beginning of the campaign, no one believed that a Serb
> capitulation could be achieved without a ground campaign, and
> completely without combat casualties.
Of course there were casualties.
Remember, for instanse, F-117 Serbs shot down?
How come pilot's name was never released? Nor his photo?
You see.. I remember clearly when we shot down O'Grady his mug was on TV
within hours and when he was rescued there were numerous pictures of
him.
1) Where is name and picture of F-117 pilot?
2) Where are pilots of planes that were supposedly Jugoslav MiG-29s?
Mihajlo
> On Sat, 1 Jan 2000 12:16:50 -0600 yelena <yel...@arthur.avalon.net>
> wrote:
>
> >Tuesday, May 4, 1999
> >
> >DISPATCH FROM KOSOVO NATO Bombs Kill 17 More
> >Civilians Assault: Bus is second one hit in two days.
>
> The Serbs should have thought of this possibility before Vukovar.
What about Vukovar? We bombed them into submission, just like NATO did.
I do regret hospital incident though.
> And Sarajevo.
See above. Only Muslims didn't surrender(=better fighters than
catholics?).
> And Srebrenica.
Still no proof.
> And Oepration Horseshoe.
And where is some reliable proof that this "Operation Horse[shit]" even
existed?
Mihajlo
> yelena <yel...@arthur.avalon.net> wrote in message
> news:Pine.HPP.3.96.100010...@arthur.avalon.net...
> >
> >
> > Tuesday, May 4, 1999
> >
> > DISPATCH FROM KOSOVO NATO Bombs Kill 17 More
> > Civilians Assault: Bus is second one hit in two days.
>
> Yelena, do you know how ridiculous this reads? NATO has already admitted to
> horrible incidents killing civilians. If they wanted to kill Serb
> civilians, they just could have carpet bombed Belgrade or Nis.
NATO couldn't do this. Why? Simple. Because if they did do that they would be
openly admitting that they wanted to terrorize Jugoslav civilian
population(which includes not only the Serbs). And they didn't want that, did
they?
Mihajlo
> Hm... Why are you holding women in the same regard as "fools and
> cretins and pederasts"?
Inferiority complex?
> * Still, it's true..
> * I'm not wrong in this summation.
> *
> * Ya know Igor,
> * that's why it would be better if "you came out of the closet" and were more
> * consistent, not only about your involvement with individual Chechens and the
> * bombings ... but Chechna in general. You know the logic.
>
> Personally, I think that it's really shitty to have Chechens
> as neighbors...
And according to Anatol Lieven's book you aren't the only one.
Personally I'd rather have Siptars as my neighbours than Cecens. Atleast Siptars
are relatively civilized(i.e. They didn't live in mountains isolated until recent
times, unlike the Cehchens(Again according to Anatol Lieven's book.)
Mihajlo
> On Sat, 1 Jan 2000 12:17:53 -0600 yelena <yel...@arthur.avalon.net>
> wrote:
>
> >Friday, April 16, 1999
> >
> >REPORTER'S ACCOUNT Searching for Answers in a Tragedy
> >Debris at sites supports witness claims that refugees were hit
> >several times by same planes.
> --
> Kosovo villagers say Yugoslav army diary details massacre
Oh please!!! This sounds like the army just abandoned all their papers
when they left.
If that's the case then people's mentality degenrated or (which is more
likely) this is bullshit report.
When we were withdrawing from parts of Sarajevo that were to be handed
over to Muslims we burned every official paper, diaries etc. we could get
our hands on.
Mihajlo
> So the Russians bomb the shit out of everything, everywhere,
> because "that's all they can afford and all they can do" in effect. Right?
Speaking of who could afford what..
What new weaponry did Ukraine produce lately? And please, don't point fingers
at my country. We never went beyond producing copies of T-80/T-72, AKs, shitty
submarines and warplanes.
Mihajlo
> Which is why the Serb government was expelled from Kosova.
Dude, talk in English properly. Cases do not change in English therefore word
"Kosovo" never changes its form.
Simeon Vlahov
Flight_of_the_Phoenix_ wrote:
> yelena <yel...@arthur.avalon.net> wrote in message
> news:Pine.HPP.3.96.100010...@arthur.avalon.net...
> > On Sat, 1 Jan 2000, Flight_of_the_Phoenix_ wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > Dungbeetle <Anonymous...@See.Comment.Header> wrote in message
> > > news:2000010121...@berlin.neuropa.net...
> > > > On Sat, 1 Jan 2000 12:14:19 -0600 yelena <yel...@arthur.avalon.net>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >Sunday, May 2, 1999
> > > > >
> > > > >DISPATCH FROM KOSOVO: NATO Bombs Civilian Bus,
> > > > >Causing Scenes of Horror War: At least 24 die when vehicle
> > > > >crossing bridge is torn in half.
> > > >
> > > > We've actually seen this before. Really. It was on CNN.
> > >
> > > The hated by Sovoks, CNN..
> > > We've actually seen ALL of this before... beats talking about Chechna I
> > > guess...
> >
> > It was you who claimed that NATO did not target civilians, and that NATO's
> > atrocities were merely "collateral damage."
>
> Yes. Along with *many* others.
>
> >I have posted evidence
> > otherwise. You are unable to address it, aren't you?
>
> Wrong again! Your "evidence" is fraudulent, and in fact flatulent. Truly it
> indeed "stinks". Your logic is lacking along with your veracity.
>
> From very bold and unsupported statements by left wing "quack sites",
> visited only by kooks, communists and conspiracy feteshists, wrapped up and
> mixed in with other *non-related* mumbo jumbo,
> you have not shown a *deliberate* attempt by NATO to cause
> civilian deaths.
>
Facts. We want facts and evidence. Nothing more, nothing less. All else is
racism and hypocracy.
>
> I have addressed your and other's many pieces of "evidence" as have others.
> You pointedly did not respond to many posters, where you KNEW you could not.
>
> Now note (again!):
> A maternity hospital was bombed, as was a fruit market, etc..
> When you have more bombs being dropped in ex-Yugoslavia then were in ALL OF
> WWII... why do you expect a 100% rate of perfection, with no civilian
> losses? Did not others tell you the same?
>
> Or did you "forget"?
> Did you forget the post where NATO countries were obviously plotting to
> destroy a hospital (no less a maternity hospital)?
> It was satirical, and written at length. DO NOTE, that not ONE Sovok,
> *answered* that one.
>
> To say such errors were the result of *deliberate* malice aforethought is
> spurious to say the least.
>
> Now you come "here" to snipe?
>
> > >
> > > "Clever", isn't it?
> >
> > It is indeed very clever of you to refuse talking about NATO/US atrocities
> > while condemning Russian ones in Chechnia. You are a hypocrite.
>
> I did not refuse such and _have_ along with others, answered you and other
> members of the horde.
>
> Did you forget that?
> Obviously you indeed forgot.
>
what did you post then? Please repost.
>
> Yes I do indeed, along with my fellow civilized and cultured Western people
> do condemn the *deliberately* savagely carried out, brutal assault upon the
> peace loving and gentle Chechen people living in an agricultural society
> with their goats, cows by a wondering horde of brutal mutants, looting and
> killing *indescrimnately* . Scud attacks on a city?!
> Artillery attacks?
>
> Did you "convieniently" forget these (and many other) *points* made in
> my/other's posts on this very topic?
>
> As these were -already- made, why this "clever", post suddenly now?
>
> Or do you wish a "new ball game" starting from ground zero so that this way,
> you can blot out the previous points, for a chance anew?
>
> Try answering the point below by another poster.
> Return to the points that no Sovok could answer, and #only then# write as
> you do.
>
> Until then, still your falsely speaking tongue.
>
We cant deny: every war conflict is a condemned thing and we are refusing to
take it for granted because of the stupidity of the fact. But there can be NO
comparising of two mass killing happenings because they are not to compare. NATO
DID the killings. May God forgive NATO. Russians DID the killings in Chechnia.
May God forgive the Russians.
Though it is very well known fact - as well as there are war conflicts, there
are well developed war industry and much weapons for sale - and noone can deny
it. US is one of the first with the major interests of the war does not end in
Chechnia. Because of the money spend on it. Fact. The same with Kosovo.
>
> > >
> > > > It is truly amazing that NATO bombs are so very precise that they can
> > > > bomb Serbia for 78 days and nights and only miss their targets five
> > > > times out of 30,000 bombs.
> > > >
> > > > At the beginning of the campaign, no one believed that a Serb
> > > > capitulation could be achieved without a ground campaign, and
> > > > completely without combat casualties.
> > > >
Nana Bukhsianidze
ona otlichaetsia.
prejde chem patriot tengiz otvetit, ia mogu otvetit' na etu temu .
gruziny jili tam sdavnyx vremen tochno kak abazgi ( togda abhazy nazyvalis'
abazgami). mnogo gruzinskix ili luchshe skazat' bol'shix deiateleih gruzii
byli imenno iz abhazii. vot poslushaih ka abhazskix istorikov i uvidish'
chto okazyvaetsia cari abhazii stanovilis' cariami gruzii ( chto ni chto
inoe kak chto etnicheski i kul'turno abhazia byla chast'iu gruzii). i oni
prosto povernuli istoriu tochno kak vashi albancy. oni toje govoriat chto
oni byli prezhde vsex i vsego tam. na samom dele... oni tochno kak albancy
sozdali gruzinskie cerkvi, rukopis', gruzinskix deiateleih...
vse nachilos' s turcii. turcia vyrila gruzinskuiu korn' tam.
vash paralel' mihailo rabotaet tochno kak etot: ah bednye serby, kakaia
raznica mejdu kosovo i chechnei?
a kstati delo turkov prekrasno bylo prodoljeno moskvoih, chto i gruziny ne
mogut prostit' xotia by na to vremia koda rossia kak vy v vashem voprose
tverdit "ERUNDU"(t.e. chto my okupirovali abhazov, nadsmexalis' nad nimi i
t.d. i t.t.p.). k stati vy i tak i ne poniali iz pisem' dovol'no chestnyx
rossian chto rossia sdelala s gruzieih tochti toje samoe chto NATO s serbami
kogda otniala ot nee istoricheski vazhnuiu chast'. mozhno sporit' o mnogom
potomu chto gruizia kak i vasha strana byla zhertvoih mnogix nashestviih i
vostonovit' pravdu kak edinstvennuiu pravdu trudno. seihchas' kajdaia
projivaiushchaia kul'tura v gruzii imeiet svoiu sobstvennuiu pravdu. zavisit
ot vashego vybora.
no poloiticheski, dlia internaciaonal'nyx organizaciih mejdu respublikoih
chencya i respublikoih abhazia raznicy net. oni esli podderjat nezavisimost'
chechni podderjat i nezavisimost' abhazii. i ne zabud'te chto chechency i
abhazy navernoe i ob'iadiniatsia. k sojaleniu esli by rossia 10 let tomu
nazad i Moskva so vremen Lenina ne nachila dvulikuiu igru s gruzieih nichego
etogo i ne proizashlo by.
nana
Mihajlo <mih...@beer.com> wrote in message
news:386F357D...@beer.com...
Flight_of_the_Phoenix_
news:Pine.HPP.3.96.100010...@arthur.avalon.net...
> On Sat, 1 Jan 2000, Flight_of_the_Phoenix_ wrote:
>
> > yelena <yel...@arthur.avalon.net> wrote in message
> > news:Pine.HPP.3.96.100010...@arthur.avalon.net...
> > >
> >
> > Not what I want... What Russians want with _deliberately_
> > wanton and inaccurate and massive fire power in all of Chechna. Did you
know
> > that one of the *first* targets hit in Chechna when the Russo-mongols
> > invaded was a hospital?
> > Let me repeat that, one of the *first* targets.
>
> Would you care to substantiate this claim with at least a press report?
> AP or Reuters would suffice.
That was "clever" of you in the cunning Russo-mongolian fashion.
No Reuters in the village of Zakan-Yurt on 11-2-99.
Russians didn't allow or like white people to see as you know pefectly well
(Mongol!).
They will allow non-white Reuter reporters, i.e., Russian. I dislike this
for the obvious reasons that Russians are shit and incompetent. I prefer
objective reporting.
I shall be able to stick CNN -Sovok hated- & Red Cross reports in your
faces.
Will give you 2 examples: One Chechen the other is the Red Cross at the time
the Russo-hordes began attacking and killing Red Cross workers then expelled
the survivors out of Chechna.
"They wanted their hordes to roam, kill and loot more free.
With no whites to see.."
From:
Chechen Republic homepage, one of the *3*last*reports* before an
underground Chechen web began - which I shan't bother to use from the time
it came on. Don't need to either.
[[[ I also note that "Source: Kavkaz-Tsentr" - altered- the last couple
entries by sticking in -*their name*-. Wasn't there before.
Trying to "cash" in on previous credibility. Don't like that. Only thing
altered, but still an unnecessary and shitty thing for the new boys in town
to do. Nor am I going to "argue" with Sovoks about that above "stealing of
credit". (to try to refocus attention)
It's just trying to divert and yap loudly and ignore facts and focus on
shit.... their usual games, the assholes. ]]]
6 Doctors Killed in Gunfire in Zakan-Yurt
Grozny, Chechnya
Source: Kavkaz-Tsentr
Date: November 2, 1999
Kavkaz-Tsentr Agency reported that on the morning of
November 2, Russian troops strafed a hospital with artillery
fire in the village of Zakan-Yurt. Six doctors were killed, as
well as the wife of the chief doctor at the hospital.
Copyright © 1999 Chechen Republic
and:
http://www.amina.com/news/99/99.10.30.html
Red Cross says Russian attack on
refugees killed 2 of its workers
Grozny, Chechnya
Source: CNN
Date: October, 30, 1999
Two local Red Cross workers were among at least 25 people
killed Friday when a Russian air attack struck a refugee
convoy in Chechnya, the international relief organization
said Saturday.
The Geneva-based International Committee of the Red
Cross said another 70 people -- including a Red Cross
worker -- were injured when a Russian rocket hit the
convoy.
Russian commanders strongly denied that they are attacking
civilians in convoys or in their homes. They said warplanes
had attacked a column of trucks carrying Chechen fighters.
(rest of text deleted)
phoenix
>
> >
> > As you see from the below article of yours, military "fire control" is
NOT
> > an easy thing to achieve in war. Even for the West.
> >
> > Now imagine a bunch of ill bred, untrained, undisciplined, looting,
poorly
> > fed, clothed, and stupid, drunken hoarde of Russo-mongolians?
> >
> > With not only inferior Russo-mongolian troops, but inferior weaponry and
> > traditional savagery and a disregard and disrespect for human life as
always
> > was culturaly incolcated in them. Correct?
> >
> > The "fuel air bombs" that Russians like to use, *indescrimitately*,
(along
> > with the very inaccurate Scud missiles against the *city* of Grozny)
because
> > it's cheaper is an analog of the cluster bomb in a way. The only thing,
is
> > that it's in the greasy bear paws of Russians who don't give a shit
where or
> > how it's used just so long as it goes:
> > "B O O O O M"- and the Russo-mongolians, can take a swig out of their
vodka
> > bottles, hoot and hollar, do a little jig in their dirty and torn
uniforms,
> > with the holes showing in their ass and say, "is a good one! Much fire!
Ho
> > boy!!! We show them Russian power! HA!"
> >
> > No one in the WEST wanted -any- civilian losses. IF they did, there
wouldn't
> > be a Serbian left at all, right? There would have also been FAR more
damage
> > then that of a *A* maternity hospital and *A* marketplace that was hit,
> > etc.. that you *constantly* repeat as "PROOF!!!" of _deliberate_ and
> > *CONSTANT* civilian targeting.
> >
> > NATO - a consortium - of many nations (unlike your sacred and one and
only
> > barabric Russia) didn't want to hear the "see! see! see! Proof! Proof!
> > Proof!" that you stupid assholes constantly repeat. That you think by
> > constantly LYING and REPEATING *SHIT*, you can convince others or try to
> > #-divert- # attention from the fact that the Russo-mongolian savages are
> > just that, STUPID EVIL SAVAGES that are good for shit.
> >
> > Nor did NATO ground troop go off and loot, get drunk and shoot the fuck
out
> > of cows, tractors, kids, everthing that moved, everywhere and behave
like
> > fucking scumbags, did they?
> >
> > Were the Russo-mongolian hordes so pleasant and mannerly?
> >
> > NOT A FUCKIN' ONE OF YOU ASSHOLES HAS COME OUT AND PUBLICLY POSTED THAT
> > WHAT'S HAPENNING IN CHECHNA IS WRONG. NOT A FUCKING ONE OF YOU herded
> > sheep/HORDE BASTARDS HAS DONE THAT!
> >
> > Think about that one..
> > Oh btw, speaking of your sneaky shit, I've taken the liberty to include
a
> > few groups, the one you seem to omit ... like the future partner of NATO
and
> > your good friends, the Bulgarians.
> > Seems you liked to SCREAM at them when the Serbs were getting bombed by
NATO
> > but you do not like to include them when in comes to Chechna for some
> > unknown reason. (hate this sneaking around sovok stuff that you people
do)
> >
> > I do know, when the future NATO member, the Bulgarians come in, you
Sovoks
> > shut up a little.
> >
> > Btw, sell the Russians the cluster bomb and some Western fire control
> > systems along with it as a package deal.. this way you won't have to
scream
> > so hysterically and loudly to fool people.
> >
> > What happened to your sig file? The Bulgarians will miss it!
text deleted
Flight_of_the_Phoenix_
> Flight_of_the_Phoenix_ wrote:
>
> > > Huh? Of course. Hundreds of them, as well as cluster bombs etc.
> > Govno!
> > Breshesh yak Sovok!
>
> Ti si sjeban!
>
> > Into Cities?
>
> Yes.
>
> > Deliberately!
>
> No, by accident!
> Moron, of course they fired missiles deliberately.
STUPID IGNORANT SERBIAN CHILD RAPIST!
PAY ATTENTION.
WE ARE TALKING OF DELIBERATE CIVILIAN TARGETING.
NOW GO FIND A LITTLE MOSLEM 5 YEAR OLD TO RAPE,
SHITHEAD.
I KNOW THAT YOU ARE BORED, Mihajlo <mih...@beer.com>
WHEN YOU ARE YOU WRITE IN THIS _LAZY_ FASHION.
I'VE SEEN IT BEFORE..
PLUS YOU FEEL IT'S YOUR SUCK-ASS SERBIAN DUTY, TO STICK
YOUR TONGUE UP AS FAR EVERY RUSSIAN ASS AS YOU CAN MAKE IT GO BECAUSE IT'S
POPULAR FOR SERBS TO DO THIS, AND YOU LIKE TO BE POPULAR HERE.
Right shithead?
NOW GO *LIE* AND MAKE EXCUSES FOR YOUR "BUDDIES",
AND YOUR SHIT PEOPLE AS WELL.. SEEMS YOU SHITHEADS
AND LOSERS LIKE TO LIE FOR EACH OTHER...
PLUS, REGARDING "UPA" AND OTHER ISSUES, YOU ARE A FUCKING LAZY, AND
INTELLECTUALLY DISHONEST, AND A TYPICAL GUTLESS, COWARDLY SERB TRYING TO
SUCK SOMEONE'S ASS... A RUSSIAN AS ALWAYS.
EAT SHIT AND GO JERK YOURSELF OFF IN A MORE HONEST FASHION YOU SERBIAN PIECE
OF SHIT.
Suzan
Flight_of_the_Phoenix wrote:
> STUPID IGNORANT SERBIAN CHILD RAPIST!
> PAY ATTENTION.
(...Cut the crap))
> EAT SHIT AND GO JERK YOURSELF OFF IN A MORE HONEST FASHION YOU SERBIAN
PIECE
> OF SHIT.
I wonder who the bad people are,..... eh?
Grow up please.. All of you (no matter what nationality, gender or whatever)
All the best,
Suzan
Nana Bukhsianidze
>
> > Yelena,
>
>
> I agree with you Nana 100%.
>
> However, it is likely that you somewhat overestimate the degree of
> intolerance in Russia. I just talked with my Gerogian friend in Moscow who
> lived there since childhood.
Lena, my relatives perhpas share his oppinion but...
I mean North Caucasians, Rossiyans who are part of Russian federation (also
happen to be muslims too)... I think some new level of tollerance should be
astablished based on new ideas otherwise "po zakonu prirody" they will go in
one way or another.
nana
Josh L.
Igor <ig...@Algebra.Com> wrote in message
news:slrn86t48...@manifold.algebra.com...
>
> You just have to understand properly what "intent" is.
>
> If, for instance, in cold blood, I assault you, and chop off your arm,
> with the only desire to cut off that arm, and you die because of that,
> I will be convicted of murder. The "malice aforethought" will be inferred
> from my action.
>
> Same is here. If you fly thousands of planes and throw thousands of
> cluster bombs, they will hit cities and innocent civilians, as they did,
> simply because of the law of large numbers and probabilities.
Yes, I've said that some civilians inevitably would die. The world decided
that this was the lesser of two evils. Some civilian deaths would be
preferable to 750,000 people living the winter in outdoor camps (where more
than 1k would die) and Serbian death squads running amok. And please, after
Vukovar, Mostar, Srebenica, and 500plus mass graves identified by the U.N.
in Kosovo, don't tell me that it would be a country club in Kosovo right now
if the Serbs were in charge.
Unfortunately the only way that the Serb gov't learns is when we took the
war to the Serb middle class..which meant turning off the lights in
Belgrade. Then it was capitulation in 24 hours.
>
> * > * more bombs were dropped by the US than in WWII, there would be many
more
> * >
> * > I am not aware of Russia deliberately targeting civilians, as such,
> * either.
> * > It simply blasts chechen rebels wherever they are.
hm...read the reports of Russian soldiers.......
> *
> * But what if that means blasting villages? NATO didn't carpet bomb
Belgrade
> * or Nis - if they did nothing would stand in those cities. You still
have to
>
> But they clusterbombed Nis, actually.
I can't support that at all...it was wrong.
>
> * show respect for civilians....the accounts I've ready, which are
admittedly
> * sketchy, talk about Russians destroying everything in their way. But I
> * admit that Russia has a much more legitimate interest in Chenya than the
> * Serbs in Kosovo.
>
> They destroy everything in their way only if there is resistance.
interesting that you tow the Russian military line.
how do you explain this: http://www.hrw.org/press/1999/dec/chech1211.htm
another Western lie?
or this:
http://www.boston.com/dailyglobe2/358/nation/Reports_of_atrocities_surface_i
n_Chechnya+.shtml
the story ran later that the Russian troops even treatened the Russian
envoy. So at least some Russian troops are looting and killing
indiscriminately, wouldn't you say?
>
> Which actually makes sense.
>
>
> The Russians actually do let the civilians out before they start
> blasting cities and villages. The civilians then run to the refugee
> camps.
Read the articles above from Human Rights Watch and the Boston Globe. Your
argument doesn't square with what's being reported on the ground.
>
> * the executions reported last week on Russian tv carried out by Russian
> * forces? What about the looting? Are you sure that these things aren't
> * going on.
>
> I am sure that they are going on.
> * I'm not aware of NATO executing Serbs or looting.
>
> But how could NATO loot Serbs from 15,000 feet?
>
> The NATO-supported KLA, though, looted thousands of Serbs.
>
> * And please, dont' bring
> * up the bombing deaths again. They are horrible, it happened, and Nato
> * admitted it.
>
> I just love bringing up the bombing deaths.
because the rest of your argument is without foundation...
have a nice day and 2000!
Josh
George Privalov
Chechnia there will be nothing to talk about for three months. Hey, you are
such a sovok. Just changing sides does no good: "Sovok" is not where you live,
it's mentality dude. Little dog never barks in the direction of its master.
Happy y2k
Shit_of_the_Chicken wrote:
> .... and "another thing" :)
>
> IF it was NATO "policy" to bomb civilians... GIVEN ALL THE HARDWARE AT
> NATO'S DISPOSAL... IT'S APPARANT TO ALL BUT *FOOLS*, that they could have
> "done a much better job of it".
>
Mihajlo
> Igor <ig...@Algebra.Com> wrote in message
> news:slrn86t48...@manifold.algebra.com...
>
> >
> > You just have to understand properly what "intent" is.
> >
> > If, for instance, in cold blood, I assault you, and chop off your arm,
> > with the only desire to cut off that arm, and you die because of that,
> > I will be convicted of murder. The "malice aforethought" will be inferred
> > from my action.
> >
> > Same is here. If you fly thousands of planes and throw thousands of
> > cluster bombs, they will hit cities and innocent civilians, as they did,
> > simply because of the law of large numbers and probabilities.
>
> Yes, I've said that some civilians inevitably would die. The world decided
> that this was the lesser of two evils. Some civilian deaths would be
> preferable to 750,000 people living the winter in outdoor camps (where more
> than 1k would die) and Serbian death squads running amok.
Proof of these squads please.
> And please, after
> Vukovar,
Oh please. Vukovar was JNA operation. READ: NOT JUST THE SERBS.
> Mostar,
What do Serbs have to do with Mostar?
> Srebenica,
Oh same old story. Bla, bla bla...
> and 500plus mass graves identified by the U.N.
> in Kosovo,
Answer there questions, Josh.
How many of these grave contain:
1) Albanian terrorists belonging to KLA?
2) Albanian civilians supporting KLA terrorists?
3) Serb civilians killed by KLA terrorists?
> don't tell me that it would be a country club in Kosovo right now
> if the Serbs were in charge.
First of all Kosovo was always poor so it neve been a country club over there
but things were surely better when legal authorieties were in charge there.
> Then it was capitulation in 24 hours.
Twenty four hours? Wrong timing.
> > * > * more bombs were dropped by the US than in WWII, there would be many
> more
>
> > * >
> > * > I am not aware of Russia deliberately targeting civilians, as such,
> > * either.
> > * > It simply blasts chechen rebels wherever they are.
>
> hm...read the reports of Russian soldiers.......
Of Russian soldiers?
> the story ran later that the Russian troops even treatened the Russian
> envoy. So at least some Russian troops are looting and killing
> indiscriminately, wouldn't you say?
Exacly, SOME. Not everyone. Some American troops looted and killed in Vietnam
so don't try to tell me things like this rarely happen. THey always happen
during the war. There are assholes everywhere.
> > The Russians actually do let the civilians out before they start
> > blasting cities and villages. The civilians then run to the refugee
> > camps.
>
> Read the articles above from Human Rights Watch and the Boston Globe. Your
> argument doesn't square with what's being reported on the ground.
In Grozny they had some 3 weeks to leave. Many didn't. They didn't surrender.
Too bad. They had a choice.
Nana Bukhsianidze
Same about Russians who don't question the situation in Chechnya and
government's approach to it ... Why civilians are not evacuated from there?
Are they Russia's citizens? I have no verdict I am just asking...
George Privalov <gp...@home.com> wrote in message
news:386F898B...@home.com...
Flight_of_the_Phoenix_
Flight_of_the_Phoenix_
Simeon Vlahov <mo...@exco.net> wrote in message
news:386FDADB...@exco.net...
>
>
> DungBeetle wrote:
>
> > On Sun, 02 Jan 2000 16:00:24 +0100 Simeon Vlahov <mo...@exco.net>
> > wrote:
> >
> > >Facts. We want facts and evidence. Nothing more, nothing less. All else
is
> > >racism and hypocracy.
> >
> > But that trial will only determine Milosevic's personal future; the
> > political future of the Balkans ahs already been determined by
> > Milosevic's policies over the past eight years.
> >
>
> It will be counted only if the trial has been done by some independant
> jurisdiction and the information of the trial be transparent and widely
spread.
> The things NATO did too.
>
> BTW you are totally wrong about the political future of the Balkans - we
> Bulgarians are not, were not and will be not Serbs. We hold our future in
our
> hands (luckily) and do not count on other neigbourhood countries'
political
> future in order to build our own.
>
> >
================== the below words were by me to counter some Sovok
"arguments" that there were deliberate attacks on civilians in Serbia by
NATO. As "proof" of such, the accidental bombing of a maternity hospital was
cited. My responce to this fabrication was to show the clearly false logic
of NATO in wanting, "for the publicity" to bomb a maternity
hospital.============ begin quote:
> > >> Or did you "forget"?
> > >> Did you forget the post where NATO countries were obviously plotting
to
> > >> destroy a hospital (no less a maternity hospital)?
============== end of quote from me to a Sovok "conspiracy freak".
> >
> > Serbspeak. It does not merit a response.
>
> Not my words. (you are double quoting) But you do have to respond if you
have
> to be honest.
>
SMOrgasmDeLUX
hospitals?
I'm sure they're not, considering that Grozny is a major city, and I'm sure
they want it in one piece.
You are what we call in America: a dumbass.
firefly
How can be Bulgarian a Serbs. US was trying to buy Milosevich with biggggg
money, he wasn't for sale, they buy Bulgaria for 50 million, Hillary in
person delivered the money to Sofia, she was smart ,she find where is on the
Earth the Bulgaria.
firefly
1, He don't allo American soldiers on the Serbs land
2, He don't let Serbia be occupy by the American soldiers
3, He don't let the Americans use his territories for they base
4, He don't kiss the Ass of the US
God bless the brave leader president of Yugoslavia Milosevich.
.Mr, President Happy New Year 2000 to you and your family, Happy New Year
2000 to all Yugoslavia people.
firefly
US/UK and the NATO NAZIs allys they are the mass killers, they were killing
Serbs people for 79 days, with the Cluster bombs, they were burnning they
houses with the Napalm bombs, they were doing to Serbia the same, what they
are doing to Iraq for 9 years on daily bases.
Flight_of_the_Phoenix_
Too many are screaming here!
Simeon Vlahov <mo...@exco.net> wrote in message
news:386F6808...@exco.net...
AH! I like an entity that "talks" like this :)
=========Simeon Vlahov <mo...@exco.net> rote:
>
> Facts. We want facts and evidence. Nothing more, nothing less. All else is
> racism and hypocracy.
>
Hmm... that's about it...
==========================
=============Simeon Vlahov <mo...@exco.net> rote:
> what did you post then? Please repost.
>
I could do that... but it's a pain in the @ss at this time.
Posted past coupla' days, then Lena posted her stuff... in responce, me in
counter to it.
I'll spare you some time though... (which you CAN verify) and give you the
"facts" of this if ya want.
(And note again, you CAN verify WHO is being manipulative, and WHO is not.
Which should tell you everything really.)
One "side" has been screaming about "Look at what NATO did!"
And claiming there were *deliberate* attacks on Serbian civilians.
I along with others, said "bullshit!, how's that make any sense to
*deliberately* bomb a maternity hospital etc.. As though NATO need THAT
kind of "public relations" to sell, right?
The claim BEFORE then was that such actions (civilian bombings) were
DELIBERATE and as "proof" of such, cited some inadvertant bombings as
"proof" of this.
All bombing targets were agreed upon by the various goverments of NATO.
Who would want to bomb a hospital?
Without doubt, there were errors which cost innocent lives.
More bombs dropped on Serbia, etc. then in all of WWII it is said.
Don't know about that, but how logical is it to claim that with all of this,
it was "deliberate"?
The *game* that one side is playing is to *pretend* they don't understand
and to lie. How? By citing mishaps, accidents and mixing other data not
relevant to the central thesis of: Deliberate or not?
This "game" is to divert attention from what the Russians are doing in
Chechna you see. So scream and lie, pretend you don't understand, etc.
That's how it's working so far. The "logic" used by one side again is
manipulative, deceiptful and pure bullshit.
==================
> >
> > Yes I do indeed, along with my fellow civilized and cultured Western
people
> > do condemn the *deliberately* savagely carried out, brutal assault upon
the
> > peace loving and gentle Chechen people living in an agricultural society
> > with their goats, cows by a wondering horde of brutal mutants, looting
and
> > killing *indescrimnately* . Scud attacks on a city?!
> > Artillery attacks?
> >
> > Did you "convieniently" forget these (and many other) *points* made in
> > my/other's posts on this very topic?
> >
> > As these were -already- made, why this "clever", post suddenly now?
> >
> > Or do you wish a "new ball game" starting from ground zero so that this
way,
> > you can blot out the previous points, for a chance anew?
> >
> > Try answering the point below by another poster.
> > Return to the points that no Sovok could answer, and #only then# write
as
> > you do.
> >
> > Until then, still your falsely speaking tongue.
> >
>
=============Simeon Vlahov <mo...@exco.net> rote:
> We cant deny: every war conflict is a condemned thing and we are refusing
to
> take it for granted because of the stupidity of the fact. But there can be
NO
> comparising of two mass killing happenings because they are not to
compare. NATO
> DID the killings. May God forgive NATO. Russians DID the killings in
Chechnia.
> May God forgive the Russians.
Yeah, yeah, but who are the savages?
> Though it is very well known fact - as well as there are war conflicts,
there
> are well developed war industry and much weapons for sale - and noone can
deny
> it. US is one of the first with the major interests of the war does not
end in
> Chechnia. Because of the money spend on it. Fact. The same with Kosovo.
? Not quite sure what you are saying here and where you are trying
to go with it. How is this relevant to a more or less "surgical war" in
Serbia with the brutal Russian conquest of Chechena and the horrible
civilian losses?
==============================
Josh L.
yelena <yel...@arthur.avalon.net> wrote in message
news:Pine.HPP.3.96.100010...@arthur.avalon.net...
> On Sun, 2 Jan 2000, Josh L. wrote:
>
x
>
> But these 750,000 people were NOT living in outdoor camps BEFORE the
> bombing, were they???
No, only 60 thousand elderly, women and children were on the move before the
bombing, according to HRW. We've debated the issue at length here. Some
Kosovars left because of the bombing...the OSCE and the UN found that the
majority left because of intimidation and brutality from Serb forces.
>
> And what about 200,000 refugees from Kosovo who live in outdoor camps
> RIGHT NOW, after they were ethnically cleansed from Kosovo during NATO
> presence?? Do they count? Are you going to bomb Washington for supporting
> the fashist KLA regime in Kosovo?
No, they should be housed and resettled. I'm against the explusion of all
refugees.....
>
>
> > than 1k would die) and Serbian death squads running amok. And please,
after
> > Vukovar, Mostar, Srebenica, and 500plus mass graves identified by the
U.N.
> > in Kosovo, don't tell me that it would be a country club in Kosovo right
now
> > if the Serbs were in charge.
>
> When the Serbs were in charge KLA managed to kill just as many people in
> Kosovo as they have managed for the past 6 months when NATO is in charge.
> What's the difference then?
I don't understand th question. The reason that the killings are going
now - and they are totally unjustified btw is that you have an enraged
population that has watched their families expelled and killed. Doesn't
justify it...
>
> >
> > Unfortunately the only way that the Serb gov't learns is when we took
the
> > war to the Serb middle class..which meant turning off the lights in
> > Belgrade. Then it was capitulation in 24 hours.
> >
>
> Unfortunately, the only way that you would learn would be to cut off your
> cable and newspaper delivery for several months and then to send you to
> Kosovo/Yugoslavia for a year. Even this might not alter your programming.
ah the tenacious Russian spirit. I'll rely on EEC, OSCE, Human Rightw Watch
and the NYT for my news and information rather than the Serb, Russian or
Byelorussian press. As Mr. Abramovic told B92, "if the whole world is
against you, you need to wonder why;"
full stop.
Josh
Mihajlo
> Stop your ignorant lying Mihajlo, you are beginning to sound like a
> Finno Ugric Tataro Mongol savage again. The UPA were not fascists, they
> fought the Fascists and the Finno Ugric Tataro Mongol savages long after most
> people thought that WW II was over. For the Ukrainians WW II was not over
> until August 24, 1991!!!
I've been wondering. If you consider Russians "Finno Ugric Tataro Mangols" who do
you think Serbs and Croats are?
Flight_of_the_Phoenix_
>
> >
> > Wrong again! Your "evidence" is fraudulent, and in fact flatulent. Truly
it
> > indeed "stinks". Your logic is lacking along with your veracity.
>
>
> fraudulent!
Of course not. Not up to that point. The hospital was shelled by artillery,
by Russians in what was obviously random shellings of everything. It was
reported as such by the Chechen Gov't. in a matter of fact style.
Plus you had the Godly CNN reporting what the Red Cross had to say about the
murders of Red Cross workers by Russian troops. Later on, the Mongols
ordered the Red Cross out so they could be more brutal, do more looting
without witnesses to see them. Plus, let's face it, more Chechens would die,
the elderly, the children, all ages without the Red Cross to help. So that's
another good reason for the Russians to kill and expell the Red Cross. I
suppose you will make some excuse up for the Russians and say that the Red
Cross is composed of "bandits, terrorists and agents of Western capitalism"
or some such... but go right ahead. All a civilized man can do when you
"clever" Sovoks talk like this is to say that you people get what you
deserve.
>
> >
> > From very bold and unsupported statements by left wing "quack sites",
>
> Reuters, Los Angeles Times, Associate Press
Do NOT pretend to NOT understand.
Got no problems with the above, it only your FALSE and very SOVIET
interpretations of such... like saying that NATO *deliberately* bombed
civilians... and your "proof" of such is to cite every mistake in a war.
That is NOT "proof", no matter how much you LIE AND PRETEND YOU DO NOT
UNDERSTAND and say it is, now is it?
Nor will I start talking about NATO's errors and IGNORE Russia's DELIBERATE
savagery in Chechna, because this is convienient for "Mother Russia".
>
>
> > visited only by kooks, communists and conspiracy feteshists, wrapped up
and
> > mixed in with other *non-related* mumbo jumbo,
> > you have not shown a *deliberate* attempt by NATO to cause
> > civilian deaths.
>
> Just as you have not shown a *deliberate* attempt by Russian army to cause
> civilian deaths.
Sure I have. Why do you AGAIN "pretend" I and many others have not? Why the
Soviet BIG LIE technique? Why are you not ashamed of yourself?
Look at the First Chechen War (and the Second) with *high* altitude bombing
runs on Chechen villages, town, and cities.
And the Russians do NOT have "smart bombs", because they are both too stupid
and cheap to have such.
Look at *SCUD* missile attacks.
Look at nearly ALL of my posts regarding such.
Look at the brutal looting by the evil Russo-mongolian troops in Chechna
(again, all of this could be said about the First and Second Chechen Wars)
Now what have you got to say?
>
> >
> > I have addressed your and other's many pieces of "evidence" as have
others.
> > You pointedly did not respond to many posters, where you KNEW you could
not.
> >
>
> You lie. You have never addressed the tons of evidence I and others
> presented in a straightforward, decent, objective, evenhanded manner.
I swear to God I laughed a lot when I read that one! :))
Hey Lena! :) What about your Spanish NATO pilot and the story of "HOW I
RECEIEVED SECRET ORDERS FROM NATO TO KILL SERBIAN OLD LADIES, WOMEN AND
CHILDREN, PREFERABLY IN MATERNITY HOSPITALS, OLD FOLK'S HOMES, AND
ORPHANAGES IN A SECRET ANTI-SLAVIC PLOT!!!" :))
This my dear, is about the kind of shit you post that you think is so very
splendid. Then you wonder why I might possibly laugh? :)
>
> > Now note (again!):
> > A maternity hospital was bombed, as was a fruit market, etc..
> > When you have more bombs being dropped in ex-Yugoslavia then were in ALL
OF
> > WWII... why do you expect a 100% rate of perfection, with no civilian
> > losses? Did not others tell you the same?
>
> Following you logic, one cannot expect 100% perfection from the Russian
> weaponry that is inferior to NATO's.
That's already been said.
Lots of times. Remember?
All the more reason that the Russians shouldn't be doing the shit they are
doing, the way they are doing it, right or wrong?
Looting is another no-no. You see it shows how not just Russo-mongolian
weaponry is inferior, but the Russo-mongolians WITH the inferior weaponry as
well. Don't you agree? Yes or no?
>
> >
> > Or did you "forget"?
> > Did you forget the post where NATO countries were obviously plotting to
> > destroy a hospital (no less a maternity hospital)?
> > It was satirical, and written at length. DO NOTE, that not ONE Sovok,
> > *answered* that one.
>
> NATO destroyed not *one* hospital in Yugoslavia, but many.
How many? :)
Only heard of one.
How many did you hear of?
> It was a
> systematic destruction of Yugoslavia's civilian infrastructure.
Yeah. Let the bastards watch TV by candle light. Fuck 'em
for being @ssholes and not listening to their betters telling them how to be
nice and not rape, loot, kill civilians and stuff...
The Serbs were acting like a bunch of Russo-mongolians!!
You can't have shit like that in Europe!
It messes up the neigborhood!
They were legitimate targets, the *Power Stations*. :)
Heh.. heh.. heh.. we "pulled the plug" on the savages! :)
Fucked up their being able to use toaster ovens..
So you want me to talk like the above? It was war...
and NOT a war against people like you heros, the
nomadic, maurading and evil Russo-mongolians did and are doing again in
Chechna.
Btw, it seems that this time, the Russo-mongolians aren't raping as much as
they used to... last war with the Chechens they did that a lot more. Not as
bad as the filthy Serb savages, but some.. Probably because this time
they're more drunk..
What do you think about why the Russians aren't raping as much as they used
to?
>
> >
> > To say such errors were the result of *deliberate* malice aforethought
is
> > spurious to say the least.
>
> So when NATo destroys a hospital, "shit happens"
> but when Russians hit a hospital, "evil Sovoks commit another atrocity".
>
> Very logical.
Isn't it though?
Quite seriously.
Consider that when NATO went VERY DELIBERATELY after that maternity hospital
in Serbia (stop screaming in that fuckin' horribly unpleasant language of
yours in Mongol triumph - I can hear it from here already) the tragic error
was that some pilot *THOUGHT* it was a _*SANCTIONED* TARGET_ . Very much
as CNN reported the exchange between the pilot and flight control over the
civilian train attacked by NATO. Which the NATO public relations department
stupidly lied about. (Aha! She screamed again!)
This is of course quite different, when you have evil, ignorant, dirty,
untrained and stupid drunken, all fucked up Russo-mongolian warrior/peasant
Sovoks, *lobbing* artillery rounds in a *sloppy* fashion, EVERYWHERE. But
they know not where! They're just shooting =blindly= in effect, and seeing
how much *tonnage* they can pour down: "someplace over there Ivane! I think
that's what the officer said... he pointed to that village over there" <a
dirty Russian finger vaguely and hesitantly pointed at some farmers milking
their cows> ".. by the way...Ivane, how do you do these calculations for
that thing on this thing here anyway, never saw one of these artillery
things before except in those black market American movies, have you seen
this in your village?"
Fire control is a science Lena.
It's not something for savages to just "pick up" like a Kalashnikov.
Sovoks use *fire power* without *fire control*. This is a *historical* trait
of their military. It is _cheap_, brutal, and relies on manpower and force.
Not thinking.
Not as the West discovered, a good way to go.
The difference can be likened to having a small well trained army, and
having a horde of expendable savages. That was OK once upon a time... not
now. Did you get it?
> >
> > Now you come "here" to snipe?
>
> >
> > I did not refuse such and _have_ along with others, answered you and
other
> > members of the horde.
>
> You did not.
Sigh!
OK, about that one.
Let's look at past posts, posts by *others* as well (for "our side") and you
will see the same thing ENDLESSLY repeated.. Why is it one has to you people
like to naughty children?
Again you will see WHO is playing games and who is not.
Admittedly, I do indeed play some games in terms of descriptive language,
but NOT when it comes to "issues".
>
> >
> > Did you forget that?
> > Obviously you indeed forgot.
>
> You never answer logic and facts. You seem to be unable to produce valid
> arguments.
Yes, yes, yes... I never use logic... nor is my logic, such as it is,
_sound_. Merely a weasel play with words, twisting and darting, ignoring all
"facts", esp. from Noam Chomsky and not at all concerned with truth,
justice, or the American way!
Sigh... man.... one does get tired after a time.. you people are indeed
relentless when you can't admit your faults in terms of the basic reasoning
process..
OK, you win this. Are you happy now?
>Personal attacks is all you seem to be capable of.
Not quite.
Still your wounded ego, hurt pride and listen to me my child..
for now I gift you by imparting a small sample of my deep wisdom and
knowledge.
Have you not Lena my dear, noticed or has this also possibly escaped your
attention and reasoning process, that Sovoks do not generally, (do forgive
my frank and somewhat descriptive use of Amerikanskaya yazyk) fuck with me?
Those that commit such a ghastly error, do not (except for Kagalenko, who
then quickly scuttles back to his rat hole to have some salo and samohon)
repeat it.
It behoves surviving Sovoks in any serious encounter with me, to therafter
avoid using my name in vain, in order to escape my attention and therefore
my possible wrath.
In the replys, you undoubtedly notice that very few have the temerity to
answer my pointed remarks, liberally sprinkled with examples of my
displeasure. The remarks concerning the reasoning of someone saying
something that strikes me as remarkably stupid - even for a Sovok, is known
to provoke me and elicit such a responce.
Now, my child, when such creatures as these, commit sins against my spirit,
I feel obligated to deepen the learning process. So that they hopefully can
learn the errors of their ways and not sin against me and others in the
future and thus be improved.
So what's wrong with that? :)
Seems to work... :)
>
> >
> > Yes I do indeed, along with my fellow civilized and cultured Western
people
> > do condemn the *deliberately* savagely carried out, brutal assault upon
the
> > peace loving and gentle Chechen people living in an agricultural society
> > with their goats, cows by a wondering horde of brutal mutants, looting
and
> > killing *indescrimnately* . Scud attacks on a city?!
> > Artillery attacks?
>
> Your condemnation means nothing if you don't condemn NATO's attack on
> Yugoslavia.
Sigh!
First of all, you are comparing apples to oranges, my child.
In all ways they are vastly different. My position at the time (Yogoslavia)
was uncertain. I have now come to a conclusion, long afterwards about this.
Nor would you like to hear the summary of that conclusion, given your
excitable and passionate nature regarding the topic and your commitment to
the Serbs. Which I believe tells you enough.
>
> >
> > Did you "convieniently" forget these (and many other) *points* made in
> > my/other's posts on this very topic?
>
> You did not make any valid points. You yelled and jumped about Russian
> barbarity. But your rantings mean nothing because you do not show
> even-handedness and objectivity.
? Now that was a non sequitor!
What do you mean by even handed and objective?
You mean one shows this by agreeing with you?
How delightefully naive and simple you indeed are!
A true creature of nature!
A totaly opinionated intolerant barbarian!
How charming and fresh! :)
>
> Dan Korolishin' opinion has more credibility.
Dan Korolyshyn has my respect and I have his.
We have, as you gathered at long last, different opinions
regarding Kosovo.
We have the same opinions regarding Chechna.
I have yet to hear your opinions on Russian actions in Chechna. I see small
glimmerings.... hints.. such as your
concerns about the civilian population and for Western
governments to "pressure gently" Moscow in being more restrained in Grozny.
Yet nothing concrete.
I see you talking a lot about the Serbs... yet not much about
Chechna. Isn't that interesting?
> >
> > As these were -already- made, why this "clever", post suddenly now?
> >
> > Or do you wish a "new ball game" starting from ground zero so that this
way,
> > you can blot out the previous points, for a chance anew?
>
> I do not with to have any game with you because you are unable to continue
> a civilized discussion.
Fall back upon your dignity my child... :)
That'll answer everthing! Won't it? :)
> >
> > Try answering the point below by another poster.
>
> The point that of one million strikes some would enivitably hit civilians?
>
> So what?
Do not give me the Russian "Nu sto?" line.
You thesis was that there was a deliberate plan to attack civilians. That
was false. (look above and see your own contradictions within this post)
>
> Why should these one million strikes be there in the first place?
Some people thought it should be so. I now agree with them after having
enough of a historical perspective in terms of data.
What's that have to do with Chechna?
>
> If you don't need a surgery what comfort it would give you to know that
> there is 1% chance that you can die on the operating table?
Some people that that the surgery should have been performed. I now agree
with them. To an extent... anyway.
>
> > Return to the points that no Sovok could answer, and #only then# write
as
> > you do.
>
> Stop spreding your shit and asnwer all the numerous points that you have
> eluded first, then I'll reply to your rantings again.
I have not sought to escape any of your points.
>
> >
> > Until then, still your falsely speaking tongue.
>
> look who's talking.
Just me.
alexplore
Flight_of_the_Phoenix_
Igor <ig...@Algebra.Com> wrote in message
> PacMan <Pac...@nwo.org> wrote:
> * Women? He's got women? As a known frequenter of alt.romance, I think
> * the only women this guy's got are in his mind. Or on his hard drive.
>
> Nope:)
Igor speak truth!
(except when it comes to Sovok)
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
>
char*p="char*p=%c%s%c;main(){printf(p,34,p,34);}";main(){printf(p,34,p,34);}
> http://www.algebra.com/~ichudov
>
Mihajlo
> On Sun, 02 Jan 2000 06:34:29 -0500 Mihajlo <mih...@beer.com> wrote:
>
> >And where is some reliable proof that this "Operation Horse[shit]" even
> >existed?
>
> Thanks for asking.
Nope, this won't do. I've never seen it mentioned in any official documents
or such.
Time journalist's imagination doesn't count.
Mihajlo
> >Oh please. Vukovar was JNA operation. READ: NOT JUST THE SERBS.
>
> Are you seriously trying to tell me that Tito would have done the same
> thing as Slobodan Milosevic did?
He did. Everyone who showed any signs on nationalism went to the slammer for good
time.
In any case, it wasn't Slobo who ordered to restore constitutional order in
Croatia in June 1991.
> If by "legal authorities" you mean the Serbs, the vast majority of the
> Kosovars will disagree with you.
>
> If you don't beleive it, wait until the elections.
Free and fair elections. KFOR has to insure that there will be no intimidation
from KLA terrorists.
Flight_of_the_Phoenix_
>
> >
> > A million in Vietnam alone
Mostly communists...
> >
> > Thousands in Korea
>
>
> And they accuse Russians of barbarity!
Easily.
>
> lets see
>
Didn't you post this already?
What's your position on Chechna?
Didn't you forget to include s.c.bulgaria again?
> >
> >
> > Bombs Said Spark for Korea Inferno
> > Updated 2:02 PM ET December 28, 1999 By SANG-HUN CHOE, Associated
> > Press Writer
Mihajlo
> > Oh please. Vukovar was JNA operation. READ: NOT JUST THE SERBS.
>
> You dirty son of a bitch! What do you think that tens of thousands of
> people comitted sicide and butried themselves into mass graves? Or maybe
> they al jumped into those huge hydrochloric acid vats at the Trepca mine
> and got themselves dissolved?
Ah, the old and unproven Trepca mine story...
> JNA operation, my arse, were Trnopolje and Luka torture camps also JNA
> operations?
Trnoplje was a big hoax. Alex, have you ever been there?
As for Luka detention camp... As always soldiers try to hide among
civilians and they need to be filtered out.
> Do you think that a single self respecting Croat would seve
> in an army of genocidists?
Yes.
Example: Admiral Mamula.
Nana Bukhsianidze
amigocabal <amigo...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:84p1af$btg$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
>The attack on Dagestani
> Moslems, by Russian terrorists, was designed to create a reason to
> attack Chechnia, because Russians knew full well that Chechens will come
> to the aid of their Dagestani neighbors.
amigo, explain what is your version here?
I have read many but I didn't hear yet that first Russians came to Dagestan
to fight against them and after Chechens came to help Dagestanians... It got
different coverage. Also what about drug mafia involvment in all this???
nana
Josh L.
Mihajlo <mih...@beer.com> wrote in message
news:386F3C0E...@beer.com...
> Dungbeetle wrote:
>
I think that this is all a pan Slavic plot to get us spending time in
newsgroups rather than growing our economies. Enough I say!
Simeon Vlahov
DungBeetle wrote:
> On Sun, 02 Jan 2000 16:00:24 +0100 Simeon Vlahov <mo...@exco.net>
> wrote:
>
> >Facts. We want facts and evidence. Nothing more, nothing less. All else is
> >racism and hypocracy.
>
> You will see them at Milosevic's war crimes trial.
> But that trial will only determine Milosevic's personal future; the
> political future of the Balkans ahs already been determined by
> Milosevic's policies over the past eight years.
>
It will be counted only if the trial has been done by some independant
jurisdiction and the information of the trial be transparent and widely spread.
The things NATO did too.
BTW you are totally wrong about the political future of the Balkans - we
Bulgarians are not, were not and will be not Serbs. We hold our future in our
hands (luckily) and do not count on other neigbourhood countries' political
future in order to build our own.
>
> >> Or did you "forget"?
> >> Did you forget the post where NATO countries were obviously plotting to
> >> destroy a hospital (no less a maternity hospital)?
>
amigocabal
and executed by the the Kremlin and Russian mafia, which is one and the
same, has resulted in untold thousands of civilians being murdered by
the most horrific weapons of genocide known to man.
The air campaign alone has delibarately targeted small villages,
populated areas, market places, refugees, schools, and food distribution
areas. This is not a campaign intent to fighting the armed forces of the
Chechnian republic. It is a campaign fighting the spirit of the Chechen
people. Russian terrorist bands have employed Scud missiles, heavy
cannon, aceton bombs, blister gas Iprit, other chemical weapons and
other high explosives devices designed to kill as many people as they
possibly can.
This inhumane campaign of the Russian mafia led by the KGB killer Putin
must terminate, before the Chechen nation is completely wiped off the
map of the continent. This is not the first time that Russian terrorists
have destroyed a nation. Dozens of smal indigenous peoples of Siberia,
Kamchatka and Urals have been wiped out completely by the Russians.
Chechnian genocide has begun as a ploy by Yeltsin, Putin and the Mafia
to cover up the theft of hundreds of billions of dollars, from the
Russian Treasury. It was well planned, so that Yeltsin family of thieves
will be forgotten in the rumpus. The apartment bombing fiasco, which was
performed by the Mafia on Putin's behest, set the stage to turn the
nation of fools against the Chechen people. The attack on Dagestani
Moslems, by Russian terrorists, was designed to create a reason to
attack Chechnia, because Russians knew full well that Chechens will come
to the aid of their Dagestani neighbors.
It is a diabolical scenario, which only a very sick mind of a KGB
torturer could devise! It is a sickening way to convince the independent
Chechen people that they ought to be become Russians. And it is against
all laws of God and nature to murder thousands of people, for no reason
at all, since they will never become Russians. Stalin tried the same
thing, murdering half a million Chechens, in the process, only to learn
that the love of liberty and Chechnian identity burns in every Chechnian
no matter where he is.
I will let the KGB torturer explain to the Russian people why it was
necessary to sacrifice about 10,000 young Russian soldiers, in order to
kill 100,000 Chechens. Maybe he knows, nobody else does!
--
El precio de libertad es muerte!
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
amigocabal
Mihajlo <mih...@beer.com> wrote:
> "Josh L." wrote:
>
> > Igor <ig...@Algebra.Com> wrote in message
> >
> > >
> > > You just have to understand properly what "intent" is.
> > >
> > > If, for instance, in cold blood, I assault you, and chop off your
arm,
> > > with the only desire to cut off that arm, and you die because of
that,
> > > I will be convicted of murder. The "malice aforethought" will be
inferred
> > > from my action.
> > >
> > > Same is here. If you fly thousands of planes and throw thousands
of
> > > cluster bombs, they will hit cities and innocent civilians, as
they did,
> > > simply because of the law of large numbers and probabilities.
> >
> > Yes, I've said that some civilians inevitably would die. The world
decided
> > that this was the lesser of two evils. Some civilian deaths would
be
> > preferable to 750,000 people living the winter in outdoor camps
(where more
>
>
> > And please, after
> > Vukovar,
>
You dirty son of a bitch! What do you think that tens of thousands of
people comitted sicide and butried themselves into mass graves? Or maybe
they al jumped into those huge hydrochloric acid vats at the Trepca mine
and got themselves dissolved?
JNA operation, my arse, were Trnopolje and Luka torture camps also JNA
operations? Do you think that a single self respecting Croat would seve
in an army of genocidists? Your filthy lies do not help Serbs and
Serbia, you are just muddying the waters, but things will clear up in
the end, and as usual those Serbs who are innocent will be paying the
price for the scum you are trying to defend! Go back to Russia, bastard!
amigocabal
amigocabal
Mihajlo <mih...@beer.com> wrote:
> Dungbeetle wrote:
>
> > Which is why the Serb government was expelled from Kosova.
>
> Dude, talk in English properly. Cases do not change in English
therefore word
> "Kosovo" never changes its form.
>
You can call it what you like but that is what the people that live
there call it, and that is what the present Kosova government calls it.
I doubt very much if it will be called anything else ever again!
amigocabal
> > wrote:
> >
> > >Tuesday, May 4, 1999
> > >
> > >DISPATCH FROM KOSOVO NATO Bombs Kill 17 More
> > >Civilians Assault: Bus is second one hit in two days.
> >
> > The Serbs should have thought of this possibility before Vukovar.
>
> What about Vukovar? We bombed them into submission, just like NATO
did.
> I do regret hospital incident though.
>
> > And Sarajevo.
>
> See above. Only Muslims didn't surrender(=better fighters than
> catholics?).
>
> > And Srebrenica.
>
> Still no proof.
The proof is in the pudding, buster. Srebrenica massacre is so well
documented, Ratko Mladic better move to Tunguska. If there was no proof
the war criminals would be flocking to the Hague, but they know that the
proof is there, in the testimonies of those who survived and in those
who did the killings!
amigocabal
--
El precio de libertad es muerte!
Amazons
>
> Flight_of_the_Phoenix_ wrote:
>
> > > Huh? Of course. Hundreds of them, as well as cluster bombs etc.
> > Govno!
> > Breshesh yak Sovok!
>
> Ti si sjeban!
>
> > Into Cities?
>
> Yes.
>
> > Deliberately!
>
> No, by accident!
> Moron, of course they fired missiles deliberately.
>
> > >For
> > > instance, in Nis, about a dozen people were killed by cluster bombs
> > > when they fell on their marketplace.
> >
> > "For instance"? Like this happened all the fuckin' time, eh?
>
> Not all the time but atleast 3-4 times.
>
> > Like NATO
> > bombed the shit out of every village and city
> > the way the fuckin' Russo-mongolian horde did/does in Chechna, right?
>
> I'm not sure what this non-existent "Russo-mongolian horde" did but yes, NATO
> did bomb nearly every village and city.
>
> > Who the fuck do you think you are talking to when you talk to *ME* like
> > that?
>
> I think I'm talking either to mentally unstable person(more likely) or some
> crazy UPA fascists.
Flight_of_the_Phoenix_
yelena <yel...@arthur.avalon.net> wrote in message
news:Pine.HPP.3.96.100010...@arthur.avalon.net...
>
> You have NOT replied to any of the points I made.
WHAT POINTS?
One of your problems is that _you_ are *unable* to & SEE &
the points that are made by others. Sad.
Note your false accusation above. (lift your head now... higher.. higher...
whoa! STOP! STOP! too far.. now lower it..
stop right there! This isn't going to work.. ok, just look below this
line: -----------------------------------
> Why did you bother to post it at all?
> You have NOT replied to any of the points I made.
Note that you wrote the above and see what =you= didn't answer IN THIS POST
below:
> > Didn't you post this already?
> > What's your position on Chechna?
> >
> > Didn't you forget to include s.c.bulgaria again?
Didn't you call me a "hypocrite" earlier? :)
How many of MY points, in how many very recent posts, did you totaly ignore?
In this -one- very brief post, you ignored 3. In others, there were
ar -more-, were there not?
I shall now say: > Why did you bother to post it at all?
and: > You have NOT replied to any of the points I made.
You do this constantly btw, with everybody.
You do not focus, nor do you answer the "points", that:
1. you can not answer (without "blowing" your "position")
2. that you find too difficult to answer
3. that you find unpleasant (because it's to true)
4. that makes you look stupid
5. that goes against your bias (so you retreat from it)
Again, you do this ^constantly^!
pick up your ^ears^ and listen.
See how you attempt to change the argument and manipulate and in effect -
yes - lie!
e.g. "I presented evidence that NATO deliberately bombed civilians". That
was a LIE. You presented evidence of colateral damage, and then used the BIG
LIE approach and claimed,
by wishful (self deceptive) and fraudlent boldness, and by a leap of faith
argument (astonishing!) that such ALONE, and in and of itself was "proof".
Subtly, you began to retreat and back away from that one. (what choice did
you have?) and went off on other tangents. Just take a look at some of
your/my posts and see for yourself. You *delude* yourself! And you also
attempt to delude others whilst deluding yourself.
You do this now _unconsciously_ and that's the scary part, when you think
more about it --- if you still can that is ...
(wake up Lena!)
Btw,
> Same pattern...
>
> Btw, how could one million children be communist?
>
>
> On Sun, 2 Jan 2000, Flight_of_the_Phoenix_ wrote:
>
> >
Flight_of_the_Phoenix_
yelena <yel...@arthur.avalon.net> wrote in message
news:Pine.HPP.3.96.100010...@arthur.avalon.net...
>
Doesn't "prove" that. Just says they were destroyed or damaged.
No students in them. Right?
>
> " The U.N. Mission in Kosovo, UNMIK, has estimated that 130 schools
> were completely destroyed during the NATO bombings, and another 283
> were moderately to severely damaged."
>
>
>
> UN: schools struggling in Kosovo
>
> UNITED NATIONS, Sept. 1 (UPI) - Some 50 percent of the Kosovo's 1000
> schools have reopened, but many buildings are still severely damaged
> from NATO's bombing campaign, the United Nations said.
> U.N. spokesman Fred Eckhard told reporters today that the reopening
> is not the official start-up of the school year. Rather, the current
> classes are meant to catch up with the educational activities
> disrupted
> by the conflict in the Yugoslav province. But integrated classes for
> Serbian and ethnic Albanian students should start at the beginning of
> the regular school year on Oct. 15.
> The U.N. Mission in Kosovo, UNMIK, has estimated that 130 schools
> were completely destroyed during the NATO bombings, and another 283
> were
> moderately to severely damaged. Some 190 schools are now being
> repaired,
> a U.N. report says.
> A civil commission has been formed to review textbooks to eliminate
> "hate language." The commission also plans to change the entire
> curriculum for the upcoming school year.
> Meanwhile, the U.N. High Commissioner for Refugees reported that 772,
> 300 refugees have returned to Kosovo from neighboring countries since
> NATO stopped bombing the region. Of that figure, 432,500 people have
> returned from Albania and 217,600 from the Former Yugoslav Republic of
> Macedonia.
> Last week, 4,400 Kosovar refugees and displaced persons returned
> home. About 3,100 of them were from outside the Balkans, and the rest
> were from neighboring countries, the UNHCR said.
> Back
>
>
>
>
Flight_of_the_Phoenix_
>
> >
> > yelena <yel...@arthur.avalon.net> wrote in message
> > news:Pine.HPP.3.96.100010...@arthur.avalon.net...
> > >
> > > You have NOT replied to any of the points I made.
> >
> > WHAT POINTS?
> > One of your problems is that _you_ are *unable* to & SEE &
> > the points that are made by others. Sad.
> >
> > Note your false accusation above. (lift your head now... higher..
higher...
> > whoa! STOP! STOP! too far.. now lower it..
> > stop right there! This isn't going to work.. ok, just look below this
> > line: -----------------------------------
> >
> > > Why did you bother to post it at all?
> > > You have NOT replied to any of the points I made.
> >
> > Note that you wrote the above and see what =you= didn't answer IN THIS
POST
> > below:
> > > > Didn't you post this already?
> > > > What's your position on Chechna?
> > > >
> > > > Didn't you forget to include s.c.bulgaria again?
>
>
I see you didn't bother to answer the above, for some strange reason, now
did you? :)
Were you trying to divert attention from other issues per chance? ;)
Well! That will indeed fool me!
How "clever" you are!
> What about the post about American massacres (at least 37) in Korea???
What about Goddamned Korea?
I do not care about Korea.
Why do YOU assume, because you have _suddenly_ become bitter about the way
the Russians are acting in *CHECHNA*
i.e. like savages, that therefore *I* must suddenly become interested in
Korea?
And that I must somehow become concerned with such?
And it would be good for you to divert attention away from Russia by talking
about Korea?
How does that make sense at all?
How about the American Revolutionary War? :)
Would that help make you feel better? :)
Why don't we go off on some _other_ *tangent*? :)
(your thinking is deceptive and manipulative - also desparate, you are not
thinking clearly!)
>
> You have NOT replied to the points I made,
Your stated denial of such, does *not* constitute a truth.
I have in all my posts, -repeatedly- done so. Yet your ignoral of such, is
your undoing. Your *mouthy* denials, are FALSE.
Nor can you lay equal claim to such above, i.e. answering all
points and creating new *relevant* statements.
Who therefore, is being false and deceptive?
>
> why should I reply to your questions?
No reason you have to, correct.
However, do not make bold falsehoods and later claim something different.
The example of "proofs" of *deliberate* targeting of civilians by NATO
forces... I discused that one at length - as did others. What were your
responses to that stuff?
NADA! Right?
(I won't even bother to mention that quack site/citation of yours about the
so called Spanish NATO pilot that supposedly was given secret orders to
target civilians - <did you find that one in the Sovok equivalent of the
National Enquirer or some such?:> You DO recall my extensive satire about
THAT one :) Yet you went on to the next piece of bullshit - then the next -
then the next?!?! Didn't you? Think about it...)
(You have been doing this A LOT!?)
>
> To every point I make you produce 56 questions.
You do NOT make points.
You make bombastic, ridiculous, illogical statements that I demolish,
viciously! :)
Shall we go to the "logic" you exhibited of your "proofs" of NATO targeting
civilians again?
There are constantly such examples from you.
Seriously.
>
> I can't answer all of them. Some of them, of my choice, I will answer
> when you reply to my points.
Is this a Russian child's game?
You think this is "clever"?
>
> Try to focus and be brief. Go back to my original post and reply directly
> to the points I made.
OK, repost it please and put on in- "Flight"
in the subject line as a first word., because I don't know what you are
talking about as to which post. Wait, better yet, compile a COMPLETE list of
what you falsely claim, I did not answer. Have a good time, because quite
honestly, I think you are deluded.
> Then I will address your question about my personal
> position on Chechnia.
Another game?
Why didn't you just put the answer down, rather then trying to make some
sort of "bargain?
Why can't you just be "straight"?
> >
> > Didn't you call me a "hypocrite" earlier? :)
> >
> > How many of MY points, in how many very recent posts, did you totaly
ignore?
> > In this -one- very brief post, you ignored 3. In others, there were
> > ar -more-, were there not?
> >
> > I shall now say: > Why did you bother to post it at all?
> > and: > You have NOT replied to any of the points I made.
> >
> > You do this constantly btw, with everybody.
> > You do not focus, nor do you answer the "points", that:
> > 1. you can not answer (without "blowing" your "position")
> > 2. that you find too difficult to answer
> > 3. that you find unpleasant (because it's to true)
> > 4. that makes you look stupid
> > 5. that goes against your bias (so you retreat from it)
> >
> > Again, you do this ^constantly^!
> > pick up your ^ears^ and listen.
> >
> > See how you attempt to change the argument and manipulate and in
effect -
> > yes - lie!
> > e.g. "I presented evidence that NATO deliberately bombed civilians".
That
> > was a LIE. You presented evidence of colateral damage, and then used the
BIG
>
> I presented evidence.
>
> Cold facts.
Nope. You merely presented your delusions...
Your facts were as "good" as the Spanish NATO pilot, or the "proofs" of
*deliberate* NATO civilian attacks. Weren't they?
>
> I can present much more, but why?
You can blither... true... but why?
>
> You have not addressed any of the facts I presented (except for rejecting
> them off hand)
Beg to differ. Your passionate "proofs" of NATO attacks.. which were shit.
>
> You presented NO evidence that it was a lie. (Except for your personal
> assertion)
Ahem... the proponent is the one that presents proof.
Did you forget that?
Besides which, my reasoning was valid.
(what shit is this about the goverments in NATO saying, "Aha! A maternity
hospital! Let's bomb it for the publicity it brings us and give the Sovoks
on Usenet another excuse for sounding stupid!"
That makes sense to you? :)
>
> Case closed.
>
>
> > LIE approach and claimed,
> > by wishful (self deceptive) and fraudlent boldness, and by a leap of
faith
> > argument (astonishing!) that such ALONE, and in and of itself was
"proof".
> > Subtly, you began to retreat and back away from that one. (what choice
did
> > you have?) and went off on other tangents. Just take a look at some of
> > your/my posts and see for yourself. You *delude* yourself! And you also
> > attempt to delude others whilst deluding yourself.
> >
> > You do this now _unconsciously_ and that's the scary part, when you
think
> > more about it --- if you still can that is ...
> >
> > (wake up Lena!)
> >
>
> Your personal evaluations of me have nothing to do with the discussion at
> hand. Try to focus on facts and logic, not my humble person.
Unfortunately, the reasoning process is a personal process for some of us.
Apparently so in your case.
Your "facts" and your "logic" are invalid, CONTINUALLY. Why do you think you
are backing away from this series? You are twisting and darting, NOT
DIRECTLY confronting.
You have LOST your past "edge". Your thinking is sloppy.
Who else would, "do you the favor" and tell you?
>
>
>
Mikhail Isayev
relcom.politics,<84o8kl$oef$1...@bob.news.rcn.net> wrote:
>Exactly! all this is from the same opera.
>Same about Russians who don't question the situation in Chechnya and
>government's approach to it ... Why civilians are not evacuated from there?
>Are they Russia's citizens? I have no verdict I am just asking...
I guess Chechen rebels are preventing Russian troops from
evacuating all civilians. By firing at them during their
humanitarian effort.
amigocabal
"RUSSIAN HUMANITARIAN EFFORT" is an understatement of the century. It is
the Russians who have murdered thousands of civilians in Chechnia! All
they have to do is stop shooting and that will be the best they could do
for Chechens! They could also leave the Chechen land and let Chechen go
on with their lives!
amigocabal
"Nana Bukhsianidze" <gr...@nh.ultranet.com> wrote:
>
> amigocabal <amigo...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
> news:84p1af$btg$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> > Moslems, by Russian terrorists, was designed to create a reason to
> > attack Chechnia, because Russians knew full well that Chechens will
come
> > to the aid of their Dagestani neighbors.
> I have read many but I didn't hear yet that first Russians came to
Dagestan
> to fight against them and after Chechens came to help Dagestanians...
It got
> different coverage. Also what about drug mafia involvment in all
this???
>
> nana
Asian product, if you suggested that this whole war was about the drugs
because the Russian Mafia wants no competition, there would some
plausibility in your statement!
Russian MVD troops went into Dagestan, 3-4 villages there were
soliciting funds worldwide to build several madrasas (Islamic schools)
and were advocating the Dagestan independence. MVD arrested several
prominent Islamic leaders and shut down many schools. They met armed
resistance from a very small and poorly armed group of Dagestanis, who
appealed to Chechens to help them, which they did, by sending a small
group of fighters into Dagestan, and giving MVD a hiding. What Chechens
did not know at the time that this MVD action was specially designed to
provoke them and create an excuse for the massive attack which is
presently destroying their nation.
Similarly, the bombing of those apartment buildings was designed by
Putin, to turn the Russian people against the Chechens, and it did to
some extent. Also, it created a reason to arrest and rob thousands of
wealthy Chechens living in Moscow, and other places. To this day not a
single Chechen has been arrested and charged with these bombings.
Another thing is if Chechens bombed those apartment building, as
Russians suggest, how come the bombings stopped immediately after
Russians attacked Chechnia? You would think that Chechens would be even
more determined to blow the Russians away, than before! The truth of the
matter is that there are hundreds if not thousands of Chechen Russians
fighting on the Chechen side, and they would not be fighting against the
Russians if the Russian war on Chechens was justified!
amigocabal
Mihajlo <mih...@beer.com> wrote:
> Amazons wrote:
>
> > Stop your ignorant lying Mihajlo, you are beginning to sound like a
> > Finno Ugric Tataro Mongol savage again. The UPA were not fascists,
they
> > fought the Fascists and the Finno Ugric Tataro Mongol savages long
after most
> > people thought that WW II was over. For the Ukrainians WW II was
not over
> > until August 24, 1991!!!
>
Mangols" who do
> you think Serbs and Croats are?
>
pave...@my-deja.com
> amigo, explain what is your version here?
> I have read many but I didn't hear yet that first Russians came to
Dagestan
> to fight against them and after Chechens came to help Dagestanians...
It got
> different coverage. Also what about drug mafia involvment in all
this???
Nu really!!! What you want to understand here? His version is very
simple and straightforward: blaim Russians in everything, everyware ,
and always (and don't forget them to drug mafias)... And most
important: never allow to facts to disturb you...
>
> nana
>
>
--
SuperZionist
amigocabal
Mihajlo <mih...@beer.com> wrote:
> DungBeetle wrote:
>
> > >Oh please. Vukovar was JNA operation. READ: NOT JUST THE SERBS.
> >
same
> > thing as Slobodan Milosevic did?
>
> He did. Everyone who showed any signs on nationalism went to the
slammer for good
> time.
> In any case, it wasn't Slobo who ordered to restore constitutional
order in
> Croatia in June 1991.
>
> > If by "legal authorities" you mean the Serbs, the vast majority of
the
> > Kosovars will disagree with you.
> >
> > If you don't beleive it, wait until the elections.
>
> Free and fair elections. KFOR has to insure that there will be no
intimidation
> from KLA terrorists.
Are you suggesting that there is one single Kosovar Albanian who would
vote to be a Serb? You are nuts!
--
El precio de libertad es muerte!
Nana Bukhsianidze
> Nana,
> Russian MVD troops went into Dagestan, 3-4 villages there were
> soliciting funds worldwide to build several madrasas (Islamic schools)
> and were advocating the Dagestan independence. MVD arrested several
> prominent Islamic leaders and shut down many schools.
Amigo, unless they killed someone in all this, I don't see that as utmost
crime was committed. It seems more smooth then some events here in USA as we
all know...( they killed people here for the same behavior Davidians and so
on).
>They met armed
> resistance from a very small and poorly armed group of Dagestanis, who
> appealed to Chechens to help them, which they did, by sending a small
> group of fighters into Dagestan, and giving MVD a hiding.
They had to avoid involvement. It was not Chechnya and Chechnian people
suffered enough at that point a lot.
>What Chechens
> did not know at the time that this MVD action was specially designed to
> provoke them and create an excuse for the massive attack which is
> presently destroying their nation.
Well even if we will consider Chechnya as independent state from Russia,
sending troops into another country to fight police there can be considered
as invasion. Which is giving more then enough reason to central government
to start a military operation. I also know that highlanders have some type
of honor code telling them to always respond to brethren asking them for
military help ( this was explanation of Basaev why he invaded Georgia and
massacred Georgians because Abhazians are brethren of Chechnyans and they
had to help because of moral code).
> Another thing is if Chechens bombed those apartment building, as
> Russians suggest, how come the bombings stopped immediately after
> Russians attacked Chechnia? You would think that Chechens would be even
> more determined to blow the Russians away, than before!
Yes this logic makes good sense.
Shortly, very difficult situation. Definitely some stuff is staged but to
what extent is very difficult to explain.
nana
Nana Bukhsianidze
Like England can leave Ireland or Spain can leave Basques... Come on...
there is no country who would do this without a substantial tension. You
know this... Especially if this country has a history of glory behind.
Unfortunately it is quite easy to calculate Moscow's reaction on such
demands so one can only wander when someone is surprised by the result. As
you know there is a great deal of self-defense for Moscow in all this. How
many Chechnias are there within Russia? Too many. One will go that's it
chain reaction will start. All this is bad because it is going to kill a lot
of people and ruin lives of people of our generation( who's fate started to
bother me lately a great deal). Sometimes I really think that this
ephemeral life needs more pragmatism and less heat in heads to take care of
it.
nana
Flight_of_the_Phoenix_
news:Pine.HPP.3.96.100010...@arthur.avalon.net...
>
>
> Btw, are you ready to drop your claim that a maternity hospital was one of
> the first targets in Chechnia?
I never said it was a "maternity" hospital.
Only that it was a _hospital_.
Source was Chechen Republic home page that gave the details.
That I posted in its entirety. The name of the village, # killed, etc. OK?
Does it matter what _kind of hosptal_ particularly?
> October 23 is hardly the beginning of the operation.
OK.
> Was it sloppiness on your part or ignorance to claim that the first thing
> that Russians targeted was the maternity hospital?
Then it was ignorance.
Don't know when the Russians invaded Chechna, in this 2nd Chechen War.
Seemed to be about the beginining to me.. guess not.
> October 23, 1999
>
> Blasts in Chechen Capital Unleash New Wave of Refugees
>
> By CELESTINE BOHLEN
>
Rest of text deleted)
PacMan
<Flight_of_t...@email.msn.com> wrote:
>
>yelena <yel...@arthur.avalon.net> wrote in message
>news:Pine.HPP.3.96.100010...@arthur.avalon.net...
>> On Sun, 2 Jan 2000, Flight_of_the_Phoenix_ wrote:
>>
>> >
>> > Wrong again! Your "evidence" is fraudulent, and in fact flatulent. Truly
>it
>> > indeed "stinks". Your logic is lacking along with your veracity.
>>
>>
>> But of course your "evidence" from kavkaz.org and amina.com is not
>> fraudulent!
>
>Of course not. Not up to that point. The hospital was shelled by artillery,
>by Russians in what was obviously random shellings of everything. It was
>reported as such by the Chechen Gov't. in a matter of fact style.
>
>Plus you had the Godly CNN reporting what the Red Cross had to say about the
>murders of Red Cross workers by Russian troops. Later on, the Mongols
>ordered the Red Cross out so they could be more brutal, do more looting
>without witnesses to see them. Plus, let's face it, more Chechens would die,
>the elderly, the children, all ages without the Red Cross to help. So that's
>another good reason for the Russians to kill and expell the Red Cross. I
>suppose you will make some excuse up for the Russians and say that the Red
>Cross is composed of "bandits, terrorists and agents of Western capitalism"
>or some such... but go right ahead. All a civilized man can do when you
>"clever" Sovoks talk like this is to say that you people get what you
>deserve.
>
>>
>> >
>> > From very bold and unsupported statements by left wing "quack sites",
>>
>> Reuters, Los Angeles Times, Associate Press
>
>Do NOT pretend to NOT understand.
>Got no problems with the above, it only your FALSE and very SOVIET
>interpretations of such... like saying that NATO *deliberately* bombed
>civilians... and your "proof" of such is to cite every mistake in a war.
>That is NOT "proof", no matter how much you LIE AND PRETEND YOU DO NOT
>UNDERSTAND and say it is, now is it?
>
>Nor will I start talking about NATO's errors and IGNORE Russia's DELIBERATE
>savagery in Chechna, because this is convienient for "Mother Russia".
>
>>
>>
>> > visited only by kooks, communists and conspiracy feteshists, wrapped up
>and
>> > mixed in with other *non-related* mumbo jumbo,
>> > you have not shown a *deliberate* attempt by NATO to cause
>> > civilian deaths.
>>
>> Just as you have not shown a *deliberate* attempt by Russian army to cause
>> civilian deaths.
>
>Sure I have. Why do you AGAIN "pretend" I and many others have not? Why the
>Soviet BIG LIE technique? Why are you not ashamed of yourself?
>
>Look at the First Chechen War (and the Second) with *high* altitude bombing
>runs on Chechen villages, town, and cities.
>
>And the Russians do NOT have "smart bombs", because they are both too stupid
>and cheap to have such.
>
>Look at *SCUD* missile attacks.
>Look at nearly ALL of my posts regarding such.
>
>Look at the brutal looting by the evil Russo-mongolian troops in Chechna
>(again, all of this could be said about the First and Second Chechen Wars)
>
>Now what have you got to say?
>
>>
>> >
>> > I have addressed your and other's many pieces of "evidence" as have
>others.
>> > You pointedly did not respond to many posters, where you KNEW you could
>not.
>> >
>>
>> You lie. You have never addressed the tons of evidence I and others
>> presented in a straightforward, decent, objective, evenhanded manner.
>
>I swear to God I laughed a lot when I read that one! :))
>
>Hey Lena! :) What about your Spanish NATO pilot and the story of "HOW I
>RECEIEVED SECRET ORDERS FROM NATO TO KILL SERBIAN OLD LADIES, WOMEN AND
>CHILDREN, PREFERABLY IN MATERNITY HOSPITALS, OLD FOLK'S HOMES, AND
>ORPHANAGES IN A SECRET ANTI-SLAVIC PLOT!!!" :))
>
>This my dear, is about the kind of shit you post that you think is so very
>splendid. Then you wonder why I might possibly laugh? :)
>
>
>>
>> > Now note (again!):
>> > A maternity hospital was bombed, as was a fruit market, etc..
>> > When you have more bombs being dropped in ex-Yugoslavia then were in ALL
>OF
>> > WWII... why do you expect a 100% rate of perfection, with no civilian
>> > losses? Did not others tell you the same?
>
>>
>> Following you logic, one cannot expect 100% perfection from the Russian
>> weaponry that is inferior to NATO's.
>
>That's already been said.
>Lots of times. Remember?
>
>All the more reason that the Russians shouldn't be doing the shit they are
>doing, the way they are doing it, right or wrong?
>
>Looting is another no-no. You see it shows how not just Russo-mongolian
>weaponry is inferior, but the Russo-mongolians WITH the inferior weaponry as
>well. Don't you agree? Yes or no?
>
>
>>
>> >
>> > Or did you "forget"?
>> > Did you forget the post where NATO countries were obviously plotting to
>> > destroy a hospital (no less a maternity hospital)?
>> > It was satirical, and written at length. DO NOTE, that not ONE Sovok,
>> > *answered* that one.
>>
>> NATO destroyed not *one* hospital in Yugoslavia, but many.
>
>How many? :)
>Only heard of one.
>How many did you hear of?
>
>> It was a
>> systematic destruction of Yugoslavia's civilian infrastructure.
>
>Yeah. Let the bastards watch TV by candle light. Fuck 'em
>for being @ssholes and not listening to their betters telling them how to be
>nice and not rape, loot, kill civilians and stuff...
>The Serbs were acting like a bunch of Russo-mongolians!!
>
>You can't have shit like that in Europe!
>It messes up the neigborhood!
>
>They were legitimate targets, the *Power Stations*. :)
>Heh.. heh.. heh.. we "pulled the plug" on the savages! :)
>Fucked up their being able to use toaster ovens..
>
>So you want me to talk like the above? It was war...
>and NOT a war against people like you heros, the
>nomadic, maurading and evil Russo-mongolians did and are doing again in
>Chechna.
>
>Btw, it seems that this time, the Russo-mongolians aren't raping as much as
>they used to... last war with the Chechens they did that a lot more. Not as
>bad as the filthy Serb savages, but some.. Probably because this time
>they're more drunk..
>What do you think about why the Russians aren't raping as much as they used
>to?
>
The Rooskies are too busy catching their own dinner to rape very much.
The Rooskie army has a unique D.I.Y. approach to rations supplies for
its soldiers. I saw some film clip of Putin handing out hunting knives
to the soldiers in Chechnya (at least I think I did - it strikes me as
so surreal that it's just possible that I imagined the whole thing).
In the Rooskie army, if you want dinner, you catch it.
Eugene
> Moslems, by Russian terrorists, was designed to create a reason to
> attack Chechnia, because Russians knew full well that Chechens will
come
> to the aid of their Dagestani neighbors.
>
> torturer could devise! It is a sickening way to convince the
independent
> Chechen people that they ought to be become Russians. And it is
against
> all laws of God and nature to murder thousands of people, for no
reason
> at all, since they will never become Russians. Stalin tried the same
> thing, murdering half a million Chechens, in the process, only to
learn
> that the love of liberty and Chechnian identity burns in every
Chechnian
> no matter where he is.
>
> I will let the KGB torturer explain to the Russian people why it was
> necessary to sacrifice about 10,000 young Russian soldiers, in order
to
> kill 100,000 Chechens. Maybe he knows, nobody else does!
>
>
Proof?
Eugene
amigocabal <amigo...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>
> Similarly, the bombing of those apartment buildings was designed by
> Putin, to turn the Russian people against the Chechens, and it did to
> some extent. Also, it created a reason to arrest and rob thousands of
> wealthy Chechens living in Moscow, and other places. To this day not a
> single Chechen has been arrested and charged with these bombings.
> Russians suggest, how come the bombings stopped immediately after
> Russians attacked Chechnia? You would think that Chechens would be
even
Well... The fact that there are no more explosions is the further proof
that it was done by the Chechens. Think about it rationally (if you can
of course). The explosions gave Russians some form of moral
justification for the beginning of the anti-terrorist operation, and if
another building will blow up, Russians will have further proof saying
that it was Chechens who did it. You said it yourself: "You would think
that Chechens would be even more determined to blow the Russians away,
than before!" Your words! The Chechen leaders may be power hungry
fanatics, but they are not stupid.
the
> matter is that there are hundreds if not thousands of Chechen Russians
> fighting on the Chechen side, and they would not be fighting against
the
> Russians if the Russian war on Chechens was justified!
Again, where's your proof?
>
> --
> El precio de libertad es muerte!
>
Eugene
amigocabal <amigo...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>
> "RUSSIAN HUMANITARIAN EFFORT" is an understatement of the century. It
is
> the Russians who have murdered thousands of civilians in Chechnia! All
> they have to do is stop shooting and that will be the best they could
do
go
> on with their lives!
>
yeah! invading neighboring countries and taking people hostage for
ransom.
Eugene
"Flight_of_the_Phoenix_" <Flight_of_t...@email.msn.com> wrote:
>
> STUPID IGNORANT SERBIAN CHILD RAPIST!
> PAY ATTENTION.
>
> WE ARE TALKING OF DELIBERATE CIVILIAN TARGETING.
> NOW GO FIND A LITTLE MOSLEM 5 YEAR OLD TO RAPE,
> SHITHEAD.
>
> I KNOW THAT YOU ARE BORED, Mihajlo <mih...@beer.com>
> WHEN YOU ARE YOU WRITE IN THIS _LAZY_ FASHION.
>
> I'VE SEEN IT BEFORE..
>
> PLUS YOU FEEL IT'S YOUR SUCK-ASS SERBIAN DUTY, TO STICK
> YOUR TONGUE UP AS FAR EVERY RUSSIAN ASS AS YOU CAN MAKE IT GO BECAUSE
IT'S
> POPULAR FOR SERBS TO DO THIS, AND YOU LIKE TO BE POPULAR HERE.
>
> Right shithead?
>
> NOW GO *LIE* AND MAKE EXCUSES FOR YOUR "BUDDIES",
> AND YOUR SHIT PEOPLE AS WELL.. SEEMS YOU SHITHEADS
> AND LOSERS LIKE TO LIE FOR EACH OTHER...
>
> PLUS, REGARDING "UPA" AND OTHER ISSUES, YOU ARE A FUCKING LAZY, AND
> INTELLECTUALLY DISHONEST, AND A TYPICAL GUTLESS, COWARDLY SERB TRYING
TO
> SUCK SOMEONE'S ASS... A RUSSIAN AS ALWAYS.
>
> EAT SHIT AND GO JERK YOURSELF OFF IN A MORE HONEST FASHION YOU SERBIAN
PIECE
> OF SHIT.
>
>
Hey man, i think your caps lock is stuck. what a shithead. now i
remember why i don't like Ukranians.