Welsh-speaking celebrities
Filip
outside of the UK might/should know ? Are there any famous Welsh-speaking
artists, politicians, sports personalities, authors, actors,... (past
or present) ?
Are there any Welsh celebrities who are very proud of their
"Welshness" like eg Sean Connery is very open about his
Scottishness.
Thank you very much
Filip
Neil Shadrach
Depends what you mean by famous.
Famous in Wales? Famous in the USA?
Lloyd George?
Richard Burton?
Bryn Terfel?
Try www.famouswelsh.com as a starting point - it does note some as welsh-speaking but I'm not sure how reliable it is.
There are plenty of other sites - try google
Robert Taylor
> "Welshness" like eg Sean Connery is very open about his
> Scottishness.
That tall dark haired one who married Micheal Douglas or his dad, or both.
(Zeta thingymybob.)
--
Regards,
Robert Taylor.
Witchee Poo
Connery as an example.
Robert Taylor's bit:
>> Are there any Welsh celebrities who are very proud of their
>> "Welshness" like eg Sean Connery is very open about his
>> Scottishness.
>
>That tall dark haired one who married Micheal Douglas or his dad, or both.
>(Zeta thingymybob.)
Is she Welsh-speaking? Is Mumbles Welsh speaking... particularly, I
wonder? I thought not. Hmm.
Sir Anthony Hopkins. An unassuming "Welshness" IMO.
FU set to ULNW, as I smell a rat. <g>
Rube...@webtv.net
M.J.Powell
Rube...@webtv.net writes
>How about Tom Jones, the singer?
And:
Sir Geraint Evans
Stanley Baker
Kenneth Griffiths
Winford Vaughn Thomas
Mervyn Johns
Glynis Johns
George Thomas
Clifford Evans
Glyn Houston
Rowan Williams
Philip Madoc
Mike
--
M.J.Powell
Filip
news:<3D5B9033...@corryn.com>...
> Filip wrote:
> > I was wondering if there are any famous Welsh speakers that people living
> > outside of the UK might/should know ? Are there any famous Welsh-speaking
> > artists, politicians, sports personalities, authors, actors,... (past
> > or present) ?
> > Are there any Welsh celebrities who are very proud of their
> > "Welshness" like eg Sean Connery is very open about his
> > Scottishness.
> >
> > Thank you very much
> >
> > Filip
>
> Depends what you mean by famous.
> Famous in Wales? Famous in the USA?
For your information, I live in Flanders / Fflandrys (where the famous
Welsh poet Hedd Wyn died).
> Lloyd George?
> Richard Burton?
> Bryn Terfel?
>
> Try www.famouswelsh.com as a starting point - it does note some as welsh-speaking but I'm not sure how reliable it is.
> There are plenty of other sites - try google
Thank you very much Neil for this very useful URL.
Best regards
Filip
Stephen Kingston
>
> Is Mumbles Welsh speaking... particularly, I
> wonder?
The answer to that is not clear.
Regards,
Stephen
Slartibartfast
he ever wants to live there
--
Slartibartfast
To reply by email, remove the FJORDS from my address
Peter Milnes
"Penny" <use.repl...@softhome.net> wrote in message
news:3d5c21ac...@news.cis.dfn.de...
: Witchee Poo <wit...@the-wicked-witch.co.uk> waived their right to
: remain silent and chose to come out with:
:
: >>That tall dark haired one who married Micheal Douglas or his dad, or both.
: >>(Zeta thingymybob.)
: >
: >Is she Welsh-speaking? Is Mumbles Welsh speaking... particularly, I
: >wonder? I thought not. Hmm.
: Is Ioan Gruffydd, bearing in mind he's from Cardiff?
:
: Penn.
Very much so and he is from Llantrisant as is his family.
Cheers, Peter.
Mike Wheeler
"M˛ T..." <m...@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:7WV69.2614$Vu3.101360@newsfep2-gui...
> Cor, look what Slartibartfast wrote ...
>
>
> > Sean Connery might be proud of his Scottishness, but not to the extent
that
> > he ever wants to live there
>
>
Really? What sort of passport has Billy Connolly got then?
Huw Waters
welsh-speaking but I'm not sure how reliable it is.
> > There are plenty of other sites - try google
www.icdigital.tv then click on "Weakest Link".
Huw
Pete Hinchliffe
"Slartibartfast" <sla...@celynnen.FJORDSdemon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:ajh8jg$r4p$1$830f...@betanews.demon.co.uk...
Ed Welsh
ps - it's got a chatroom too.
"Slartibartfast" <sla...@celynnen.FJORDSdemon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:ajh8jg$r4p$1$830f...@betanews.demon.co.uk...
Witchee Poo
>And, verily, Ed Welsh did spew forth the following pronouncement...>hmmmm... spot the error
It was toop poosted? <vbg>
--
Witchee Poo
Witchee Poo
> .. after cogitating for a bit, Witchee Poo scribbled..
>
>
>> >> check out www.famoouswelsh.com you might find more information.
>> >>
>> >hmmmm... spot the error
>>
>> It was toop poosted? <vbg>
>
LMAO! A very funny mooment that was...
--
Witchee Poo
Gareth Williams
>> > It was toop poosted? <vbg>
>> >
>> Well spooted.
>>
>>
> She's gooooooooood at that.
Who, Sara Edwards ("Wayls" Today)? She of "Pooolice", Glamoooogan" and
"Welsh Woooter" fame?
--
Warmest regards, Gareth Williams.
Witchee Poo
>On Mon, 26 Aug 2002 20:38:55 +0100, Far Canal wrote:
>
>>> > It was toop poosted? <vbg>
>>> >
>>> Well spooted.
>>>
>> She's gooooooooood at that.
>
>Who, Sara Edwards ("Wayls" Today)? She of "Pooolice", Glamoooogan" and
>"Welsh Woooter" fame?
Yoou have loost me...
--
Witchee Poo
Witchee Poo
>And, verily, Witchee Poo did spew forth the following pronouncement...
>
>>
>> Yoou have loost me...
>>
>> --
>> Witchee Poo
>>
>Pooooooooooooooooooooooooo?
Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.
--
Witchee Poo
Gareth Williams
You either don't watch "Wales Today" or have not noticed the mangled and
evidently forced pronunciation of said Sara Edwooods. A listeners' guide:
"Poolice" = "Police"; "Glamoogan" = "Glamorgan"; "Wooter" = "Water";
"Twooks" = "Talks"; "Woook" = "Walk" ... etc.
Elocution lessons are expensive and produce patently bogus, annoying,
pain-in-the-arse results. Mrs Edwards and Sian Lloyd senior - you've got
a lot to answer for.
Gareth Williams
> IIRC - Sara Edwards isn't married - and prolly isn't going to be ... She
> was also bought up in Surrey.
Even the good folk of Godalming don't speak with such strangulated vowels
and glass-shattering consonants as la Edwards.
> Sian Lloyd is just a slappa.
Sian Lloyd is from Neath. Nobody in Neath "twooks" like her. 'Specially
not the slappas. She has either been telepathically inseminated by the
phoneme-beasts of planet Schwa or she's "putting it on".
Witchee Poo
>On Mon, 26 Aug 2002 22:47:30 +0100, Witchee Poo wrote:
>> Gareth Williams's bit:
>>>Who, Sara Edwards ("Wayls" Today)? She of "Pooolice", Glamoooogan" and
>>>"Welsh Woooter" fame?
>>
>> Yoou have loost me...
>
>You either don't watch "Wales Today"
Coorrect.
> or have not noticed the mangled and
>evidently forced pronunciation of said Sara Edwooods. A listeners' guide:
>"Poolice" = "Police"; "Glamoogan" = "Glamorgan"; "Wooter" = "Water";
>"Twooks" = "Talks"; "Woook" = "Walk" ... etc.
>
>Elocution lessons are expensive and produce patently bogus, annoying,
>pain-in-the-arse results. Mrs Edwards and Sian Lloyd senior - you've got
>a lot to answer for.
What is the surname of Sian the ITV weather girl? Her accent grates. I
thought she was Sian Lloyd...? I forget.
--
Witchee Poo
Witchee Poo
>BTW - your clock is an hour fast.
Which reminds me!
And you had the audacity to tell me that mine was *1 minute out*, and my
mucksheen says "hello" to Automachron at each start-up.
Ya cheeky trout!
--
Witchee Poo
Witchee Poo
>> And you had the audacity to tell me that mine was *1 minute out*, and my
>> mucksheen says "hello" to Automachron at each start-up.
>Mine speaks to Cambridge Uni - when I tell it.
Quite!
Actually what I should have said was that Automach speaks to UK2 but I'm
sure you were with me.
>> Ya cheeky trout!
>There is only one trout on this ng - and he appears to have pissed off.
I will trim the FU.
--
Witchee Poo
Geraint Lewis
<m...@privacy.net> writes
>
>IIRC - Sara Edwards isn't married - and prolly isn't going to be ...
>She was also bought up in Surrey.
>
--
Geraint Lewis
Ed Welsh
:-)~
"Bev" <b...@junkmailheaven.con> wrote in message
news:MPG.17d44f903...@usenet.f9.net.uk...
> And, verily, Ed Welsh did spew forth the following pronouncement...
>
> > check out www.famoouswelsh.com you might find more information.
> >
> hmmmm... spot the error
> --
> Bev.
Troedyrhiw
Abraham Lincoln had a vocabulary of 600 Welsh words..Although his
grand-dad was Welsh he himself could not speak it fluently
However Thomas Jefferson who's parents was born in North Wales could
speak the Welsh language as would a scholar...it was his first choice
of tongue..and wrote the original draft for the Rules of Independence
in Welsh only then to be translated into English after all the
parties(16 Welsh out of 52 members) had been satisfied with all the
amendments that were agreed upon.
William Penn who was not Welsh could speak Welsh fluently.....his
granddad was Welsh...He although not Welsh wrote the King of England
pleading that the area they were living in not be called Pennsylvania
after his dad but "New Wales"...he even offered the Clerk of Court at
that time monies for "making a mistake " in the official
documents..The Clerk although Welsh refused to be bribed.:-))This was
his promise to the Quakers...but the King owed his father some land
for "good deeds"(can you imagine:-)) he had done ..so he gave him the
State of Pennsylvania...You can see why the Yanks were not to pleased
by the way they were treated..cannot blame them,can you...
I think John Quincy Adams unlike his father President John Adams could
speak the language...
Lloyd George was not Welsh...He was born in Manchester ...He could
speak excellent Welsh after both of his Welsh parents....He was bought
outright by the Zionist in the early part of the century(as the
current Prime Minister(English) would not be bribed)...and then Lloyd
George became Prime Minister..
Dylan Thomas spoke Welsh..
Ivor Novello could speak some Welsh.
King Henry VIII spoke Welsh and his father..Henry VII (Owen Tudor) a
Welshman could speak Welsh and so could Henry's brother Arthur who
died at a young age(teenager I think)..Even Oliver Cromwell who was
not Welsh could understand Welsh...lots of boyo's got into trouble not
realizing that little fact..
How about this one then...I would give it a 7 out 10 possibility(70%)
King Caradoc of the Brits (original Welsh speaking people) and before
him his dad fought the Romans(Claudius Caesar) from 30AD to 49AD..He
could have(I say could have) met Jesus while he was in Rome or in
Britain...He and his dad(Bran) were most certainly the first Christian
Kings of ANY country...Is it possible that Caractarus(Caradoc is his
Roman name)taught Jesus how to get his tongue around some of the Welsh
words and places....like "Llanfair.....gogogoch:-))))
You don't have to be too religious(I am not),but go to the bible(St
James) and look for Timothy 4.21 and look at the names mentioned in
the letter St Paul(the Apostle) sent to Timothy.....they are Pudens,
and Linus, and Claudia...Paul had met the kids and told Timothy to
wish them well.....Well Linus was Caradoc's son and Claudia(Gladys in
Welsh)his daughter was married to Pudens a Roman Officer.....
"He[Bran] stepped down as king to become the Arch Druid for the
college of Siluria[Glamorgan area] after being the first of royalty
converted to Christianity by Joseph of Arimathea. His son Caradoc then
became the King of Siluria. (The following list of genealogy is taken
from R.W. Morgan's book, St. Paul In Britain, who got it from the
Pantiliwydd Manuscripts of Llansannor.)"......"(apology to quotes
author..lost link)....Troedyrhiw
Joseph of Arimathaea ,the guy who pulled Jesus down from the cross was
a very very rich man and had dozens of tin mines in Cornwall(West
Wales at this time)..He visited Britain at least 3 times every year(he
was Jesus's uncle)and supposedly took Jesus's mother Mary to
Britain(Wales) at least twice..From there one can just speculate and
imagine a couple very famous Jews speaking Welsh...There is a
tremendous similarity in old Hebrew script and the Druidic Welsh
language...They say (Historical biblists and linguists)that
Wales(Britain) is the lost tribe of Simon.....This may be one of the
reasons why..... "in A.D. 42 Claudius issued a decree stating that
anyone who accepted the Druidic or The Way faith had committed a
capital offense punishable by death. With this decree, he ordered the
destruction of Christianized Britain including its finer institutions
and libraries. Claudius Caesar had his heart set on controlling
Britain. He wanted to put an end to the controversy over the Roman's
way of worship and imperialism raised by the Druids and followers of
The Way"(apology to quotes author..lost link)....Troedyrhiw
If you have the time and are interested..punch into your search
engine... Angelsey... Druids ....Claudius Caesar...
Its likely that if you cut and paste the above quote " to " into
your engine..you may find the original site
Remember(never forget) that the word "WELSH" is a German
word(Anglo-Saxon-English )meaning "foreigner".or "alien".It was what
the English called the Kymrians when they first landed in Britain in
around 376AD...It did not get into any text until I think around
Bede's(English Christian Saxon monk) time or even later..I am very
surprised the Welsh put up such a fuss when they did not get their way
with having "Welsh" put on the 2000 ballot..I shuddered with the
knowledge that the Welsh population have been totally Anglisized in
the Historical facts of their country...I still shudder.
Thanks for listening
Troedyrhiw
Clark Babel
> To answer the original question.
> Abraham Lincoln had a vocabulary of 600 Welsh words..Although his
<snip>
> the Historical facts of their country...I still shudder.
>
> Thanks for listening
Don't kid yourself.
--
Clark Babel
Frankly my dear, I couldn't give a stuff.
David
"Troedyrhiw" <minm...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:dabf6490.02091...@posting.google.com...
> Even Oliver Cromwell who was
> not Welsh could understand Welsh...lots of boyo's got into trouble not
> realizing that little fact..
Cromwell's grandfather was a Williams, a Glamorganshire brewer.
He (the grandfather) married into the influential Cromwell family
and took on his wife's surname.
Cromwell is the name of the town near where i live.
Croeso i Gromwell,
David George.
Mark Foster
news:alsc2m$q2s$1...@lust.ihug.co.nz...
>
> Cromwell's grandfather was a Williams, a Glamorganshire brewer.
> He (the grandfather) married into the influential Cromwell family
> and took on his wife's surname.
>
>
Jack and Jacks speak Welsh.
tal
who are you calling boyos fuck face. english? or uncle tom?
Troedyrhiw
> Troedyrhiw wrote:
> > To answer the original question.
> > Abraham Lincoln had a vocabulary of 600 Welsh words..Although his
>
> <snip>
>
> > the Historical facts of their country...I still shudder.
> >
> > Thanks for listening
>
> Don't kid yourself.
Okay Superman You have had 24 hours(minus 3-9 hours post delay) to do some research
Be specific..Tell me where I am wrong...remember Specificity
...Troedyrhiw
Jack Sais
(in message <alsc2m$q2s$1...@lust.ihug.co.nz>):
I read that it was named Cromwell to annoy the large number of Irish gold
prospectors in the area. Is there any truth in this?
================================================================
Hogwasher: You don't have to sacrifice friendliness for power
http://www.asar.com/cgi-bin/product.pl?58/hogwasher.html
================================================================
David
Its an apocryphal story. It goes like this- the irish chainman said 'a coise
on the name of Cromwell'.
The surveyor therefore named it Cromwell.
David
Actually the Daniels family who originated the Jack Daniels form of Whiskey
dsitillers
were originally from Wales. Of course the Scots have captured the whiskey
market,
at least outside of Britain.
bottoms up 2 u
David.
Jack Sais
(in message <alu1le$1j0$1...@lust.ihug.co.nz>):
Thanks David!
==============================================================
Posted with Hogwasher. Mac first, Mac only:
http://www.asar.com/cgi-bin/product.pl?58/hogwasher.html
==============================================================
Dave
When you say "the English" do you mean the city gents with pinstripes,
bowler hats, and rolled umberellas. I suppose that they chased the Welsh of
England accross Offa's Dike, Hadrians Wall, the River Tamar, and the English
Channel into Wales, Scotland, Cornwall and Brittany by poking them up the
bum with the rolled umberellas. It must have been a funny sight to see when
the English first landed with Vortigern's help and chased the Taffs with
their umbelellas out of England. Dave
called the Kymrians when they first landed in Britain in
: around 376AD...It did not get into any text until I think around
: Bede's(English Christian Saxon monk)
Bede the Angle has now become Bede the Saxon now!
time or even later..I am very
: surprised the Welsh put up such a fuss when they did not get their way
: with having "Welsh" put on the 2000 ballot..
They are probably still rubbing their bums after the English umberella attac
ks.
I shuddered with the
: knowledge that the Welsh population have been totally Anglisized in
: the Historical facts of their country...I still shudder.
In which case they too will become Anglo-Saxons and Wales will become
England.
:
: Thanks for listening
Think nothing of it hen gymar.
: Troedyrhiw
Troedyrhiw
your
"When you say "the English" do you mean the city gents with
pinstripes,
bowler hats, and rolled umbrellas. I suppose that they chased the
Welsh of
England accross Offa's Dike, Hadrians Wall, the River Tamar, and the
English
Channel into Wales, Scotland, Cornwall and Brittany by poking them up
the
bum with the rolled umbrellas. It must have been a funny sight to see
when
the English first landed with Vortigern's help and chased the Taffs
with
their umbelellas out of England. Dave"
Troedyrhiw says
1..Very good high school script 7/10...room for improvement..but skips
to many classes...For entree or scholarship into the Monty Python
College of Further Studies of the Life of Brian,a far greater degree
of attention and openness is desired...Your 'dead parrots' homework
was to say the least.... disappointing
2..So you are saying that Offa's Dyke was already there then....be
careful there.. it could bite you unless you really know your Welsh
(Briton) Geological History
3.."Taffs" where were you Dai boyo when they handed out the Welsh
pamphlets whilst crossing over the border. For the period we speak of,
the only Taffs were those that lived along the River Taff and through
Troedyrhiw/Aberfan.......Caracturas(Caradoc.. if you are reading
everything in Latin) pitch tent there numerous times...my great great
great (to the power of 5) told my great granddad..So eat your heart
out and don't get caught in the drizzle will you...I forgot about
those "never leave home without it" umbrella's you carry with
you..what colour is yours Dai bach....prod prod wink wink nudge
nudge...How's your father.
4..."Vortigern" is a title.. It was not his name...find out the rulers
name and come back and I will mark your homework....and that error is
not a"funny sight". just laziness and your "umbelellas" need some
attention while you at it.
5...Dai you wrote just three sentences there are more error that
sentences.
your
"Bede the Angle has now become Bede the Saxon now!"
Troedyrhiw says
As I said "It did not get into any text until I think around
Bede's(English Christian Saxon monk) time or et al.."
As I said "Bede's(English Christian Saxon monk) time or et al.."
As I said "Bede's(English Christian Saxon .."
As I said "Bede's(English Saxon .."
As I said "Bede's(English.."
Now I will ask you what is "English" boyo,or do you want the whole
world to know how dumb XXX can be...I just think your umbrella point
just stuck up your nose or was it a rubber hose....Indeed it seems you
are NOT listening to those "on screen" pixels afterall..
your
"They are probably still rubbing their bums after the English umbrella
attacks."
Troedyrhiw replies
Why don't you ask the Welsh here in the forum...I suspect you have
been a pain in their ass for years...hope you are still listening Dai
buttie.
Your
"Think nothing of it hen gymar."
Troedyrhiw says
Dai,you are brilliant boyo...You are even psychic...that is EXACTLY
what I thought of it.......bloody nothing
your
"In which case they too will become Anglo-Saxons and Wales will become
England."
Troedyrhiw says
Nooooo Dai buttie...Lets try this from the beginning shall we
boyo..Pay attention
1...After me.... say...." Welsh means British and Briton"......good
2...Now read my lips...repeat after me.."English means Angles and
Saxons from Germany " with/without umbrella's..very very good Dai..But
we will have to work on that Swazanegger accent...bit too
toTeutonic...don't you think so.
3...Now I hope the other Taffs here will bear with me through this
"nasty" bit...Are you still listening Dai...Allllllrrrighty then,to
continue... You(Dai) after me say "Welsh means 'foreigners' or it may
even mean 'alien' "............brilliant,absolutely brilliant
boyo.....you do pick things up quickly Dai
boy......................He's got it... He has got it....by jove I
think he has it...A Welsh Cockney...bloody marvelous.
Now just for you Dai..I will sneak along to my cut and paste library
and you can read and try to answer what I have been asking for over 20
years...If it be to "scholarly" for you ..need not to worry, just be
careful with the umbrella point that's all...I just hope IT IS your
umbrella point that we all see down there resting on the OUTSIDE of
your pinstripes....Don't go away..." I'LL BE BACK"
Dai are you listening...read it carefully and I will be back in about
3-4 weeks
My purpose in initiating this thread is to SERIOUSLY ask the question
and really try to establish what may be the political Logic(or
otherwise) surrounding the acceptance of words...
British"..."Brits"..." British Isle"...by peoples who did everything
in their power to exterminate the indigenous Britons??? and...
1... Why are the English referred to as "British" ????
2... Why do they call it the "British Isle" and include Scotland with
Wales and England ??? (Not withstanding 1536/40 and 1706/7 agreements)
3... Why are Scots and Irish referred to as "Brits" in the general
sense.??? 4... Why have they called it "Great Britain" in the past.???
5... Why did Anthony Hopkins(Welsh Nationalist and American Brit:))
and Sean Connery(Scottish Nationalist)accept the Knighthood from
Elizabeth II ???(not so seriously)
6....Why did the "victors" the English(German-AngloSaxon) take the
name of the "vanquished" the Welsh(Britain-Britons) and eventually go
on to establish the biggest Empire the World has ever seen
The answer to the above questions may lie in the following events that
is taking place in the UK at this very moment.
With the uproar that has been occurring in Wales and in London regards
the" 2001 Census" and "a plinth for Bede"( respectively),both have one
thing in common...The man Bede himself.
I will attempt to explain what is taken place in the United Kingdom...
Firstly... Lots of political intrigue and big money surrounds the last
plinth(Statuette empty space) in the hub of London's busiest place
Trafalgar Square..3 famous people take up 3 of the 4 plinth's,
Napier(of logarithm fame), Nelson( Battle of Trafalgar Fame) and a
third guy ????.....
Big Business and the English Clergy want Bede to have it...Ken
Livingstone(the Mayor of London))is saying "over my dead body".So
after phone calls from the British Prime Minister and many of the
Aristocracy (still there)...Counts and Dukes and Bishops and Earls and
Duchesses and Princes and Princesses and the Queen(big rumor :))
Ken who is a "Cockney" of London said thanks..but no thanks and will
ask the London Arts Council to rotate pieces of British Art every year
or few years on this empty Plinth...
Ken's basic complaint is that Bede did not provide an honest and
accurate account of past,recent and current Roman,Briton and Anglo
Saxon historical fact,but then he carries on to say that Bede did not
record any existence of ........... ...wait for it.................
..............King Arthur!!!!
Secondly....In 2001 there will a National Census in the UK....The
Census forms are already in the households.The Welsh are very very
upset that they have no little box that can be checked for
"Welsh"..just "British"....The Scots and Irish have separate boxes to
identify their origin.Meanwhile the English can only check the
"British" box ,the same as the Welsh...The English apparently are not
complaining one iota.
You may see at this moment that between the Welsh and the English ,the
above appears non-sensical.
Excuse me shouting for the Welsh ,at the same time trying remind
myself that my scholastic discipline is in Engineering and not
Ancient/Medieval History or Archeology....From what I have been able
to understand up to this point in time is the following
Fact...Welsh and Wales are derogatory words meaning "the territory of
the alien race",used by the Anglo Saxons
Fact...Welsh are indigenous people.These are the original Britons and
they live in Britain and they are British...They are all that is left
of the British People.
Fact...Welsh and Wales are Germanic expressions (German Wälsch)
Fact...English people came from Germany...the Angles and the Saxons.
Fact...Wales(Briton) was Christianized by the Romans almost 2000 years
ago
Fact...English people (Anglo Saxon)tried to eliminate/destroy
everything that was British Welsh Romano,even Christianity....Find out
when the English(Anglo Saxon) became Christians,you will be surprised.
Fact...Britons invited the English(Anglo Saxon) to their country to
fight the Scots and the Picts from the North,they turned on the
Britons and eventually pushed them into Wales.(Dementea ...Silures)
Fact...Strathclyde was one of the Welsh Kingdoms of Britain.It was in
SW Scotland and Dumbarton was the principal town.
Fact...Cornwall was at one time called West Wales
Fact...Remember,the English(Anglo Saxon) gave you the derogatory
word.."Welsh"
Fact...St Patrick was born in Wales,in the same "shire" as St David
patriot Saint of Wales.(March 1st)
Fact...Anthony Hopkins was born in the same village as Richard
Burton(Jenkins)Welsh Nationalist....Richard must be also turning over
in his grave..God Bless him.
Fact(maybe)...When the Normans came and conquered the Anglo Saxons in
1066...the Welsh went down the pub to celebrate:))))May have been led
by Arthur ??
To the Welsh I say, if you really want to get back at Bede and
antagonize any of the other "British"people...Claim, with one big
loud...ever so loud voice..."We are British" and put your mark down
for posterity(The 2001 Census ) I am quite sure that English people
will not want their check box to read "Anglo Saxon" .....The German
people must be having a good laugh at the expense of the Welsh
Assembly and the British Parliament.
Claiming and voting in one voice to be British and saying "No to
Bede":)))would indeed create attention in the rest of the
World....Assuming in the fallout, the Scots, English and the Northern
Irish would lose the "British" tag...and Bede would turn over in his
grave(no disrespect intended)
Why not??,the English,Scots and Irish Historians and Scholars must be
quite embarrassed and annoyed at being called British or Brits from
Britain,after all, it was the Britons that succumbed(never beaten
:)))))) to the English way....Maybe ask an Englishman his opinion:))
It occurs to me, that again I am witnessing AGAIN the ostracizing of
the Welsh People.This is what Bede appears to done in his
"Ecclesiastical History of the English Nation"(731 AD) to the
Britons.(in the 4 of the 5 books I have read so far )
Bede an Angle Saxon Theologian and Historian and Christian(as you may
know) introduced the method of dating events from the birth of Jesus
Christ...Most Scholars, past and present, insist that he provided
reliable information that by Historical research,some can be
corroborated....One can argue that this is not true..It is the nature
of presentation that I find as a Brit...offensive.
Bede was not a time traveller...a vast amount of his work was based on
"Pliny the Elder"......Gaius Plinius Cecilius Secundus a Roman Scholar
and Encyclopedist..It is maybe significant to remember that some of
Pliny's works have been classified as "useless"..
Pliny the Elder, A.D. c.23–A.D. 79, Roman naturalist; b. Cisalpine
Gaul. His one surviving work, Historia naturalis, consists of 37 books
that deal with the nature of the physical universe, geography,
anthropology, zoology, botany, and mineralogy.Although impressive in
scope, this encyclopedic work, mostly secondhand information, is
useless as science.
What was the reliability of Pliny's other works that apparently had
been destroyed,before or after Bede done his research???? When I have
finished reading Bede's five books,I will get back to you, if I can
find an accurate translation of the original Latin work...no luck as
yet..Everyone has their "theories"on what he meant... Seems political
...eh
So why the reliance on Pliny by Bede...could it have been politically
motivated,totally out of Bede's hands???.....Remember Bede only left
the Monastery to meet to gather information
What is Welsh?...take your choice...Could browse for another 20
minutes and get another four URL's with slightly different
comprehension ....I know that at least 3 of the 4 sites below are
crafted by Lecturers and Professors..So now "who are we going to
believe" becomes an adjunct to the threads questions....Was it just
like our dilemma.......1000-1500 years ago???? Even if it is
mythological..I can swim to a Scottish Website and find that Arthur
was born and died in Strathclyde..The English has Glastonbury and
Tintagal....The Welsh have Caerleon or even Pembroke(Dementae)...The
Irish claim he was born in Eire,but died at Tintagel.(slight
concession here:)))
So what has progress and politic done to those historical facts that
were lying there only subject to Mother nature and the intellect of
humans???
Being an Engineer by Profession,it is typical of this discipline to
ask questions as to the "truthfulness" and integrity in it
origination(design) and continually explore the possible ramifications
of any condition that is "untrue"....even when everything appears to
be in agreement with design spec.
Can someone confirm/contradict my facts regards Welsh/Britons/
English/Anglo Saxon/Germanic etc. etc....The responses I have been
receiving on some of my starter forum threads have been a little bit
disappointing..."To be wrong and learn, is to be learned"....(kieth
norman...sept 2000) :))))
Can someone possibly "theorize" what the probable fallout and
consequences would be if the UK Government were to provide an "Anglo
Saxon check box" for the English, making the assumption that the Welsh
Nationalists accept the "British" tag(see starter thread for general
info.)
I have spent the past three days reading headlines and forum threads
on the "Census 2001" totally within the Welsh website sphere,plus
Welsh American sites.
(Almost 6,000,000 of Welsh ethnicity in the US of A... that's double
the population of Wales...somebody has been driving them
away)::))((((((((((
Also,I spent considerable time going through the archives of most of
the established newspapers in Wales and England (since June 99)...I
have a very sinking feeling that the "Corridors of Political Power"
and some powerful Civil Servants and MP's at Westminster have their
wheels in motion and are falling over themselves in wonder with their
successful planning and planting of an issue that appears to zoom over
the heads of all Welsh and English People."the little British check
box"
We call it in the Engineering field "Reverse Engineering-with extra
twist" .....Freud would probably phrase it as "seeding":))))
I absolutely do not believe that these guys are that ignorant of the
probably reaction from the Welsh...no one man is that stupid...but
people are:)))
It seems that what they may have anticipated evolved spectacularly in
a manner that has even caught them by surprised.
If the Census Committee had provided a "Welsh" check box making the
people of Wales happy,then what is left for the people of England...
"English" and "British".The English would react exactly the same way
the Welsh are at this very moment if they were just classified as
British."with fire in their belly"...If an English check box were
offered,then we have the situation of eventually losing all historical
relationship to the British...Britons...Brits and most of all "The
British Empire".If I were of any other ethnicity I would probably say
that a "British" box is the best "compromise" for both and for
posterity.(How terribly political and incompetent)::))))They have
promise to correct this "mistake" in the next Census...
Just had a very weird thought...is this History full circle??.IF the
Welsh take "British" and the English settle for Anglo Saxon we are now
really getting the History Books in order:)))))No...The German would
get very upset,we would argue,then look out WW 3.. Why is "the Brit"
always fighting the German?...That seems to be a "Historical question"
? .
Have the English PhD's in the Historical and Ecclesiastical
Disciplines and the English at Westminster(House of Commons) realized
that a Census box other than "British" for them would indicate in
future historian research that the **British Empire** was once the
power of the "other" British... the **Welsh**........Now, is this
really the predicament that they were completely aware of before and
at the time of separation of Wales????...
For simplicity, let us assume that my "FACTS" are reasonably
correct.Would it not be"English" of the Welsh Scholars to sit down
very quietly and pondered the benefit to Wales and its people.I am
sure that with a little bit of American Marketing Technique(just to
let the World know..of course)they could embarrass those that need to
suppress and "advantage Wales" in what would be one hell of a
scholarly historical, ecclesiastical ,legal and political debate...and
make **some** lawyers much more wealthy:))...But that is the nature of
some Professional Scholars in society today:))........ In a way,if my
"facts" are totally incorrect...at least I will have an answer..
Would there be total anarchy in the Welsh and English literature/
language/historical/ecclectic and political arenas,if one were to
substitute and/or include "British" in such ...I really cannot answer
that????
Say goodnight Dai...goodnight dai
If there is an answer that I need ..it is to # 6 above...try your luck
"Why did the "victors" the English(German-AngloSaxon) take the name of
the "vanquished" the Welsh(Britain-Britons) "
So far 43 Professors practising the science of British and Roman
Historical Research have failed to provide an acceptable answer..to
each other and to the questioner..me...try your luck
Totally without malice or intent to injure.(they are just words
afterall:-)))
Troedyrhiw
"A people called the Welsh, so bold and ferocious that, when unarmed,
they do not fear to encounter an armed force, being ready to shed
their blood in defence of their country, and to sacrifice their lives
for renown".........Henry 11, King of England c 1165 (Letter to the
Emperor of Byzantium
Jack Sais
(in message <dabf6490.0209...@posting.google.com>):
You're presenting a lot of things here as fact when they aren't.
> Fact...Welsh and Wales are derogatory words meaning "the territory of the
> alien race",used by the Anglo Saxons Fact...Welsh are indigenous
> people.
Except that they were Celtic invaders. Example: the Belgae tribe, after whom
Belgium is named, also occupied a large proportion of southern England.
Celtic foreigners, the lot of 'em. And they originated in what is now
Germany, too.
>These are the original Britons and they live in Britain and they are
> British...
No, see above.
They are all that is left of the British People.
No, the Celts eliminated the indigenous British culture.
Fact...Welsh and
> Wales are Germanic expressions (German Wälsch) Fact...English people came
> from Germany...the Angles and the Saxons.
No, the fact are that Angles came from Angeln and Saxons came from Saxony.
That was 1500 years ago. We've had the Normans, Huguenots, refugees from
goodness knows where, sub-Continentals, Caribbeans, Zimbabweans, South
Africans, you name it. All you can factually say about English people is that
it's reasonably likely that they come from England
Fact...Wales(Briton) was
> Christianized by the Romans almost 2000 years ago
No, you can't "Christianise" a country. Land cannot have a religion.
Fact...English people
> (Anglo Saxon)
Wrong. See above.
>tried to eliminate/destroy everything that was British Welsh
No evidence. Wrong. Not factual. Furthermore British culture had long been
swept away by the Celtic invasions.
> Romano,even Christianity....Find out when the English(Anglo Saxon) became
> Christians,you will be surprised.
Shortly after they arrived on these shores. They then spent centuries
converting successive waves of invaders and sending out missionaries. As for
the morality of *being* a Christian - you can't actually *be* a Christian
until somebody tells you about Christianity. Funny thing to pick on - are
*you* a practicing Christian?
> Fact...Britons invited the English(Anglo
> Saxon)
Wrong (see above)
>to their country to fight the Scots and the Picts from the North,they
> turned on the Britons and eventually pushed them into Wales.
Because the alleged Britons (actually the previous wave of invaders to
Britain) reneged on their agreement to pay the Anglo Saxons. They accepted
some land instead of the payment. Then their superior agricultural knowledge
enabled them to prosper.
(Dementea
> ...Silures) Fact...Strathclyde was one of the Welsh Kingdoms of Britain.It
> was in SW Scotland and Dumbarton was the principal town. Fact...Cornwall was
> at one time called West Wales Fact...Remember,the English(Anglo Saxon) gave
> you the derogatory word.."Welsh"
If you take offence, that's your problem. You're Welsh and you know you are.
> Fact...St Patrick was born in Wales,in the
> same "shire" as St David patriot Saint of Wales.(March 1st) Fact...Anthony
> Hopkins was born in the same village as Richard Burton(Jenkins)Welsh
> Nationalist....
So?
> Richard must be also turning over in his grave..
Why? Because of the assembly?
> God Bless
> him. Fact(maybe)...When the Normans came and conquered the Anglo Saxons in
> 1066...the Welsh went down the pub to celebrate:))))May have been led by
> Arthur ??
Bet they were disappointed in their "liberators" when the Normans (in the
form of Edward Longshanks) promptly came along and built all those beautiful
castles so that they could completely suppress the Welsh, eh?
Your grasp of fact appears to be a tad limited.
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John
"Troedyrhiw" wrote a massive19kb message and wibbled......
> Dear Dai...herewith follows you next lesson
who can be arsed to read that amount of dribble..........
John
John
"John" <Jo...@noname.invalid> wrote in message
news:an2nch$s7u$1...@knossos.btinternet.com...
May I add, this wasn't this John. Please check headers for confirmation.
John
gerald.copp
"Jack Sais" wrote
.
> >tried to eliminate/destroy everything that was British Welsh
>
> No evidence.
There is contemporary and historical evidence (e.g. Gildas, Anglo-Saxon
Chronicles, Bede, Nennius) for conflict between invading 5th century
Germanic tribes (i.e. Angles, Saxons and Jutes) and the people who were
referred to by the Romans as 'British', later referred to by the invading
Germanic tribes as 'Foreigners' or 'Welsh'. That the terms 'Welsh' and
'Wales' were applied to almost the whole of the ex-Roman province of Britain
not in A-S hands, from Scotland to Cornwall, makes the equation of 'Welsh'
with 'British' at that time perfectly reasonable. There was conflict from
the A-S revolt of AD 455, which according to the A-SCs ended at the battle
of Aegles Threp and the establishment of the A-S kingdom of Kent, to
continuing battles along a line from north to south that pushed from east to
west, establishing A-S control over most of Britain during a period of about
200 years. It changed the language, the religion (initially) and the
material culture of the island. Even the Norman-French didn't achieve any
thing like as great a change. A lot of beer has been spilt down front
shirts since then and, as far as I'm concerned, does dim ots, but the
evidence is irrefutable, so why persist in saying it didn't happen?
> British culture had long been
> swept away by the Celtic invasions.
There is obviously no historical (written) evidence for this statement and
there is nothing in the archaeological evidence either. Being of a
scientific bent, do you accept lack of evidence as proof?
Jack Sais
(in message <wpJl9.8600$sh4.4...@newsfep2-win.server.ntli.net>):
>
> "Jack Sais" wrote
> .
>
>>> tried to eliminate/destroy everything that was British Welsh
>>
>> No evidence.
>
> There is contemporary and historical evidence (e.g. Gildas, Anglo-Saxon
> Chronicles, Bede, Nennius) for conflict between invading 5th century
> Germanic tribes (i.e. Angles, Saxons and Jutes) and the people who were
> referred to by the Romans as 'British', later referred to by the invading
> Germanic tribes as 'Foreigners' or 'Welsh'.
Gildas can't be described as an unbiased source. I'm sure there was conflict,
given the basic premise of getting some people who are bigger and stronger
than you to fight your battles, and then refusing to pay them. Maybe that's
where the perjorative verb "to Welsh" originally came from?
That the terms 'Welsh' and
> 'Wales' were applied to almost the whole of the ex-Roman province of Britain
> not in A-S hands, from Scotland to Cornwall, makes the equation of 'Welsh'
> with 'British' at that time perfectly reasonable.
Sure, there's a lot of it about - try Wallachia in Romania.
There was conflict from
> the A-S revolt of AD 455, which according to the A-SCs ended at the battle
> of Aegles Threp and the establishment of the A-S kingdom of Kent, to
> continuing battles along a line from north to south that pushed from east to
> west, establishing A-S control over most of Britain during a period of about
> 200 years.
A result of superior agricultural systems, leading to population increase,
leading to pressure on land. *Not* a vendetta intending to obliterate the
Celts.
It changed the language, the religion (initially) and the
> material culture of the island.
Yes, it replaced the previous cultural invasion - so? Christianity did that,
too.
Even the Norman-French didn't achieve any
> thing like as great a change. A lot of beer has been spilt down front
> shirts since then and, as far as I'm concerned, does dim ots, but the
> evidence is irrefutable, so why persist in saying it didn't happen?
I didn't.
>
>> British culture had long been
>> swept away by the Celtic invasions.
>
> There is obviously no historical (written) evidence for this statement and
> there is nothing in the archaeological evidence either. Being of a
> scientific bent, do you accept lack of evidence as proof?
Was the original British culture Celtic? No chance. The Celts swept across
Europe, imposing their culture wherever they settled from Galatia to Galicia.
I don't understand how you can dispute this, never mind have a problem with
it.
Dave
: Dear Dai...herewith follows you next lesson
:
The Anglo-Saxons are better at playing Rugby than the Welsh, so there you
Celtic wog. Dave