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Welsh girl names

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PowerK

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Mar 31, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/31/99
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Hi, am looking for some traditional Welsh names for a beautiful little girl.

Thanks
Shantel

H

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Mar 31, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/31/99
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PowerK wrote in message <19990331115733...@ng127.aol.com>...

How about
Myfanwy
Megan
Bethan
Ceri
LLinos
Angharad
Bronwen
Nesta
Nia
Cerys
Rhiannon
Blodeuedd
Olwen
Thats all I can think of at the moment.


GARETH C JONES

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Mar 31, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/31/99
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H wrote in message <7dtnt5$guv$1...@newnews.global.net.uk>...

>
>PowerK wrote in message <19990331115733...@ng127.aol.com>...
>>Hi, am looking for some traditional Welsh names for a beautiful little
>girl.
>>
>>Thanks
>>Shantel
>
>How about
>Myfanwy
>Megan
>Bethan
>Ceri
>LLinos
>Angharad
>Bronwen
>Nesta
>Nia
>Cerys
>Rhiannon
>Blodeuwedd
>Olwen


Well done with the capital LL in LLinos, Howard; but RH is a letter in Welsh
so it should be RHiannon although that looks very weird written down like
that...am I deluded or am I right?

Now let's see...
RHian
Nest (without the 'a')
Sian (with circumflex over the 'a' which Outhouse Express won't let me
type).
Sioned
Beca
Elen
Eluned
Delyth
Dilys
Gwyneth
Elinor
Heledd
Iona
Menna
Nerys

Keep it up!
Gareth

Dav

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Apr 4, 1999, 4:00:00 AM4/4/99
to
> H wrote in message <7dtnt5$guv$1...@newnews.global.net.uk>...
> >
> >PowerK wrote in message <19990331115733...@ng127.aol.com>...
> >>Hi, am looking for some traditional Welsh names for a beautiful little
> >girl.
...

> >Cerys

No, not Cerys - I've already started to hear little baby Ceryses
cropping up all over the country. I suppose there'll be a wave of
them over the next few years and rather than being anything to do
with being Welsh, it will be a prime indication of the parents' musical taste.

> Nest (without the 'a')

Bob Marley's real name was Nesta! On his first visit to the US, the
customs man laughed at him and told him it was a girl's name and he'd
be better off calling himself 'Bob'. So he did.

Good luck with choosing a name.

dav
hea...@zetnet.co.uk


Sharon Flower

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Apr 10, 1999, 3:00:00 AM4/10/99
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Ffion, Gwenan, Gwenllian.
Dav wrote in message <199904041...@zetnet.co.uk>...

Allan-John Marsh

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Apr 11, 1999, 3:00:00 AM4/11/99
to
PowerK wrote:
>
> Hi, am looking for some traditional Welsh names for a beautiful little girl.
>
> Thanks
> Shantel

My favourite Welsh name for a girl is Ceidwyn - it sounds so poetic and
to me conjures up the image of a beautiful and carefree individual. I
also have a cousin called Ceri, and when lengthened to Ceridwyn, sounds
very proud. My name's Allan, that's old Celtic - how about Alana!!
Just joking, you don't need to find offence in that! ;-)

Allan-John Marsh

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Apr 11, 1999, 3:00:00 AM4/11/99
to
Dav wrote:
>
> > H wrote in message <7dtnt5$guv$1...@newnews.global.net.uk>...
> > >
> > >PowerK wrote in message <19990331115733...@ng127.aol.com>...
> > >>Hi, am looking for some traditional Welsh names for a beautiful little
> > >girl.
> ...
>
> > >Cerys
>
> No, not Cerys - I've already started to hear little baby Ceryses
> cropping up all over the country. I suppose there'll be a wave of
> them over the next few years and rather than being anything to do
> with being Welsh, it will be a prime indication of the parents' musical taste.

I just got that! Bloody good!!! Very funny! :-))

Barry Taylor

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Apr 11, 1999, 3:00:00 AM4/11/99
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Yn erthygl <371080...@xtra.co.nz>, sgrifenws Allan-John Marsh
<day....@xtra.co.nz>:

>PowerK wrote:
>>
>> Hi, am looking for some traditional Welsh names for a beautiful little girl.
>>
>> Thanks
>> Shantel
>
>My favourite Welsh name for a girl is Ceidwyn - it sounds so poetic and
>to me conjures up the image of a beautiful and carefree individual. I
>also have a cousin called Ceri, and when lengthened to Ceridwyn, sounds
>very proud.

Just to be pedantic, these names should end in -wen, not -wyn, which is
a masculine ending. E.g. Ceridwen, not Ceridwyn.
--
Barry Taylor

URGENT APPEAL - Romanian orphans need your help.
Please visit European Relief Aid at http://www.gwenhwys.demon.co.uk/era/

Linda Sherman

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Apr 11, 1999, 3:00:00 AM4/11/99
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Allan-John Marsh wrote:
>
> My favourite Welsh name for a girl is Ceidwyn

Must be Anglo-Welsh then, because -wyn is a resolutely masculine ending
in Welsh. The feminine ending is -wen.

There's a frankly annoying tendency of English speakers to change -wen
to -wyn because they think it's "prettier" or because they've decided,
based on their profound knowledge of the Welsh language, that "-wyn"
looks "more Welsh". English-language romance novels are full of "Welsh"
heroines named "Bronwyn", for example.

I am reminded of the debate once on a Welsh corgi mailing list as to the
proper plural of "corgi". Not a few contributors had decided that it
should be "corgwyn" because these linguistic experts thought that it
looked/sounded nicer and/or more Welsh than the correct "corgwn".

Anyway, I couldn't find Ceidwyn OR Ceidwen in any reference of Welsh
names. I found "Cedwyn" in Gruffudd's book, also "Ceidio", "Ceidiog",
and "Ceidrych", all masculine.

Lin
--
Linda K. Sherman <lins...@gte.net>
Computer programming, technical writing, web development
phone: 1-727-842-6756 fax: 1-727-842-6853


Allan-John Marsh

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Apr 12, 1999, 3:00:00 AM4/12/99
to

Okay - it's just that when working at the IRD, I scanned a form for a
girl called "Ceridwyn", but I also scanned one for a girl called "Sharn"
so best not to follow that example I suppose :-)

Allan-John Marsh

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Apr 12, 1999, 3:00:00 AM4/12/99
to
Linda Sherman wrote:

>
> Allan-John Marsh wrote:
> >
> > My favourite Welsh name for a girl is Ceidwyn
>
> Must be Anglo-Welsh then, because -wyn is a resolutely masculine ending
> in Welsh. The feminine ending is -wen.
>
> There's a frankly annoying tendency of English speakers to change -wen
> to -wyn because they think it's "prettier" or because they've decided,
> based on their profound knowledge of the Welsh language, that "-wyn"
> looks "more Welsh". English-language romance novels are full of "Welsh"
> heroines named "Bronwyn", for example.
>
> I am reminded of the debate once on a Welsh corgi mailing list as to the
> proper plural of "corgi". Not a few contributors had decided that it
> should be "corgwyn" because these linguistic experts thought that it
> looked/sounded nicer and/or more Welsh than the correct "corgwn".
>
> Anyway, I couldn't find Ceidwyn OR Ceidwen in any reference of Welsh
> names. I found "Cedwyn" in Gruffudd's book, also "Ceidio", "Ceidiog",
> and "Ceidrych", all masculine.
>
> Lin

There is also an annoying tendancy for Americans to spell Colour as
Color, but there you go.

Lenn Williams

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Apr 12, 1999, 3:00:00 AM4/12/99
to

Allan-John Marsh wrote in message <37113D...@xtra.co.nz>...

Probably just a case of "sor" grapes on our part.

Ken Minton
St. Louis, Missouri, USA

Linda Sherman

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Apr 12, 1999, 3:00:00 AM4/12/99
to
Allan-John Marsh wrote:
>
> There is also an annoying tendancy for Americans to spell Colour as
> Color, but there you go.

American English is, however, our language to spell as we please, and
the American
spelling is correct for American English.

Changing Ceridwen to Ceridwyn, on the other hand, is a case of people
presuming to know how to spell a language they /*don't*/ speak, and the
result is not correct in any dialect of Welsh.

Furthermore, "color" vs. "colour" is entirely an orthographical issue.
The difference does not affect the meaning or pronunciation. However,
changing Bronwen to Bronwyn alters the pronunciation and creates a
grammatically incorrect word that makes no sense as a female name.

Allan-John Marsh

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Apr 13, 1999, 3:00:00 AM4/13/99
to
Linda Sherman wrote:
>
> Allan-John Marsh wrote:
> >
> > There is also an annoying tendancy for Americans to spell Colour as
> > Color, but there you go.
>
> American English is, however, our language to spell as we please, and
> the American
> spelling is correct for American English.
>
> Changing Ceridwen to Ceridwyn, on the other hand, is a case of people
> presuming to know how to spell a language they /*don't*/ speak, and the
> result is not correct in any dialect of Welsh.
>
> Furthermore, "color" vs. "colour" is entirely an orthographical issue.
> The difference does not affect the meaning or pronunciation. However,
> changing Bronwen to Bronwyn alters the pronunciation and creates a
> grammatically incorrect word that makes no sense as a female name.
>

Col-or as opposed to cul-ah - but if a person chooses to spell Ceidwen
as Ceidwyn, then that is really their choice. It might be a 'Welsh'
name, but many Welsh names are simply old British names which thus make
them a kin to the whole population - free to cut up, ruin and modify as
they see fit. One example I have seen - Chantelle, Shantel, Shantelle,
the list goes on.

Dave Thomas

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Apr 13, 1999, 3:00:00 AM4/13/99
to
In article <3712CC...@xtra.co.nz>, Allan-John Marsh
<day....@xtra.co.nz> writes

>
>Col-or as opposed to cul-ah - but if a person chooses to spell Ceidwen
>as Ceidwyn, then that is really their choice. It might be a 'Welsh'
>name, but many Welsh names are simply old British names which thus make
>them a kin to the whole population - free to cut up, ruin and modify as
>they see fit. One example I have seen - Chantelle, Shantel, Shantelle,
>the list goes on.

Ah yes Chantelle, that old Brythonic name which goes back to Sianel Ped
Warwick ferch Tel y Ddu. A Brythonic saint who had a large following in
the conquered territories.

But you are quite correct many Welsh names are indeed old Brythonic
names and indeed very many Brythonic words have been absorbed by the
Welsh language. In fact it is probably true to say that if it were not
for the Brythonic language Welsh would not exist. It is also true that
there are numerous instances of Brythonic words which are often freely
modified, many place names are frequently given interesting new life
forms as a result.

Nevertheless it is nice to know that the Brythonic language has played
an important part in the development of Prydain Fawr.

--
Dave Thomas

Linda Sherman

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Apr 14, 1999, 3:00:00 AM4/14/99
to
Allan-John Marsh wrote:

> Col-or as opposed to cul-ah -

There are a *lot* of British accents where the r is clearly pronounced,
even rolled. There are many American English accents (mainly in New
England and parts of the South) where the r is pronounced British-style.
Also, Americans do not pronounce the initial o as an o. It's more like a
u, as in British English.

The point is that the spelling of "color" or "colour" does not determine
how people pronounce it. Their dialect determines how they pronounce it.

However, Welsh spelling is phonetic, and "gwyn" and "gwen" (the source
of the -wyn and -wen endings) are *not* pronounced the same, and while
they mean the same thing, they are not interchangeable because of
grammatical rules regarding gender.

> but if a person chooses to spell Ceidwen
> as Ceidwyn, then that is really their choice.

I agree. What I object to is people who know nothing about the Welsh
language passing judgment on what is Welsh and what is not. It is
arrogant and presumptuous, and it does not give the rest of us English
speakers a good name.

If you want to call your daughter Ceidwyn, that's fine with me. You
won't be the first parent who gave his or her daughter a made-up or
masculine name. If you insist however, on claiming that this is a proper
Welsh name, and that your opinion of its Welshness should be accepted
unchallenged by Welsh-speakers who know the language better than you do,
then you will likely be regarded as an arrogant buffoon, because that's
how you come across.

> It might be a 'Welsh'
> name, but many Welsh names are simply old British names which thus make
> them a kin to the whole population -

Again, the issue is *not* whether anyone has the right to use a
particular name or modify it, or even make up names. The issue is why so
many English-speakers presume to believe that they know what "looks
Welsh", when they have no basis whatsoever for believing that they do.

> free to cut up, ruin and modify as
> they see fit. One example I have seen - Chantelle, Shantel, Shantelle,
> the list goes on.

And I don't doubt that a great many people who have these names think
their names are "French", which they aren't. The French forms are
"Chandelle" or "Chantal". The examples you cite are faux-French
*English* names, just as "Bronwyn" is a faux-Welsh *English* name.

Allan-John Marsh

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Apr 14, 1999, 3:00:00 AM4/14/99
to
Look Linda, are you trying to make a point that Ceidwen for a girl is
Welsh, but if it's Ceidwyn, it's arrogance on behalf of their part?
Ceidwen is a Welsh name, Ceidwyn is a Welsh name - Allan is the
'incorrect' spelling of Alun, but it's my name, and it's not some
English takeover of what was once an old Brythonic name now credited to
Wales.

And I hope that that jibe about no knowledge of the Welsh language was
not directed towards me. I only pray that one day I can return to
develop a working knowledge of the language and improve my spelling.

Twll tin pob Americanwyr, ac y'r Americanwyres. Dydwn nhw'n ddim yn
gwabod rhywbeth amdanaf i neu fy ngwerin.

labo...@ihug.co.nz

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Apr 15, 1999, 3:00:00 AM4/15/99
to

I agree that the non Welsh interchangeability of Wyn and Wen can cause
confusion. Here in New Zealand Bronwyn has been a very popular girls' name
right up until the late'70s; the name (here), regardless of spelling is
pronounced bruhnwuhn.
Maybe, and this is a wacky, far out theory, the wyn and wen problem is not
helped by the existence of "classic" Welsh names such as "Owen" and
"Gwyneth"
Stephen


PowerK

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Apr 15, 1999, 3:00:00 AM4/15/99
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How do you pronounce Ceidwen?

Thanks
Shantel

Dav

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Apr 15, 1999, 3:00:00 AM4/15/99
to
The message <37155F0A...@ihug.co.nz>
from labo...@ihug.co.nz

> I agree that the non Welsh interchangeability of Wyn and Wen can cause
> confusion.

But then, how many Alisons are there that are really the son of Alice?

dav
hea...@ztente.co.uk


Linda Sherman

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Apr 15, 1999, 3:00:00 AM4/15/99
to
Allan-John Marsh wrote:
>
> Look Linda, are you trying to make a point that Ceidwen for a girl is
> Welsh, but if it's Ceidwyn, it's arrogance on behalf of their part?

Only if they claim that Ceidwyn looks "more Welsh" than Ceidwen.

I have no objection to anybody calling their children or themselves
anything they want to. I do object to people presuming to knowing what
is or is not "Welsh" when they do not speak the language.

I have tried to make this point several times. I don't know why you're
having so much trouble with it.

> Ceidwen is a Welsh name, Ceidwyn is a Welsh name - Allan is the
> 'incorrect' spelling of Alun, but it's my name, and it's not some
> English takeover of what was once an old Brythonic name now credited to
> Wales.

The point is, you're not claiming it to be the Welsh spelling.

I think we're running into the problem that English uses the same
adjective for language as it does for nationality. "Allan" may be a
"Welsh" name in the sense that it may be based on the name Alun or Alan,
but it does not use the orthography of the Welsh /*language*/. You can
call it an English spelling of a Welsh name if you insist, and I won't
even argue if you call it a Welsh name. But I would regard you as an
ignorant and pompous twit if you were to tell me that this is how it's
spelled *in Welsh*.

And that's the problem I've had with *some* English-speakers who just
willy-nilly decide that they know how things are spelled in Welsh, when
in fact they don't have a clue. Like corgi owners who use "corgwyn" as
the plural because they think it looks "more Welsh".



> And I hope that that jibe about no knowledge of the Welsh language was
> not directed towards me. I only pray that one day I can return to
> develop a working knowledge of the language and improve my spelling.

[violins] Excuse me a moment while I wring out my hankie.

You could order books and tapes and get to work on your own if it really
meant that much to you.



> Twll tin pob Americanwyr, ac y'r Americanwyres. Dydwn nhw'n ddim yn
> gwabod rhywbeth amdanaf i neu fy ngwerin.

Okay, so we've established that you harbor some irrational resentment
towards Americans, and that you don't know the Welsh word for "American
woman". What does that have to do with Welsh spelling?

Allan-John Marsh

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Apr 16, 1999, 3:00:00 AM4/16/99
to

Kay-d/wenn

Allan-John Marsh

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Apr 16, 1999, 3:00:00 AM4/16/99
to
Linda Sherman wrote:
>
> Allan-John Marsh wrote:
> >
> > Look Linda, are you trying to make a point that Ceidwen for a girl is
> > Welsh, but if it's Ceidwyn, it's arrogance on behalf of their part?
>
> Only if they claim that Ceidwyn looks "more Welsh" than Ceidwen.
>
> I have no objection to anybody calling their children or themselves
> anything they want to. I do object to people presuming to knowing what
> is or is not "Welsh" when they do not speak the language.
>
> I have tried to make this point several times. I don't know why you're
> having so much trouble with it.
>
> > Ceidwen is a Welsh name, Ceidwyn is a Welsh name - Allan is the
> > 'incorrect' spelling of Alun, but it's my name, and it's not some
> > English takeover of what was once an old Brythonic name now credited to
> > Wales.
>
> The point is, you're not claiming it to be the Welsh spelling.

Languages do change, and Allan is just a spelling - I would claim it to
be traditional Welsh if it was Alun, but being Welsh, would that not
make Allan a Welsh spelling too, as there are people in England (I bet
my life on it) called Alun who would probably just say it's an English
spelling.

****


> [violins] Excuse me a moment while I wring out my hankie.

Don't be facetious



> You could order books and tapes and get to work on your own if it really
> meant that much to you.

Don't you worry - i've got them, but a working knowledge is hard to find
on tapes.
***

> Okay, so we've established that you harbor some irrational resentment
> towards Americans, and that you don't know the Welsh word for "American
> woman". What does that have to do with Welsh spelling?

It doesn't, but proves my own sorry point that my Welsh is very rusty

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