Proper spelling of a Welsh first name
Ron Richards
would appreciate it. We are attempting to delve into the history of our
Welsh roots and we have been told by our older relatives that we had a
relative by the name of...well, this is the problem, I can't spell it
properly.
Phonetically, it would like something like this: [uh-nai-ren}, or possibly
beginning with a short [e], e.g. [e-nai-ren]. Thus, the after the initial
shwa or short "e", the next two syllables would rhyme with "high" and
"ten", respectively. (It is also possible that the vowel in the last
syllable was also pronounced like a shwa, such that it might rhyme with
"fun".)
Any help on the proper spelling would be much appreciated.
Thanks,
Ron Richards
--
Current e-mail address is the exact reverse of the following: ude.alcu@rnor
Darren Wyn Rees
> If anyone could assist me in the proper spelling of a Welsh first name, I
> would appreciate it. We are attempting to delve into the history of our
> Welsh roots and we have been told by our older relatives that we had a
> relative by the name of...well, this is the problem, I can't spell it
> properly.
> Phonetically, it would like something like this: [uh-nai-ren}, or possibly
> beginning with a short [e], e.g. [e-nai-ren]. Thus, the after the initial
> shwa or short "e", the next two syllables would rhyme with "high" and
> "ten", respectively. (It is also possible that the vowel in the last
> syllable was also pronounced like a shwa, such that it might rhyme with
> "fun".)
> Any help on the proper spelling would be much appreciated.
Aneurin ?
--
Darren Wyn Rees mer...@netlink.co.uk
ASK your ISP to ADD the NEW england.* Newsgroups
http://www.england.news-admin.org/accessfaq.html
dont work
aneurin it is
"Darren Wyn Rees" <mer...@netlink.co.uk> wrote in message
news:93dfh9$b5p$1...@maesd.A470.com...
Nigel Evans
<mer...@netlink.co.uk> writes
>> Phonetically, it would like something like this: [uh-nai-ren}, or possibly
>> beginning with a short [e], e.g. [e-nai-ren]. Thus, the after the initial
>> shwa or short "e", the next two syllables would rhyme with "high" and
>> "ten", respectively. (It is also possible that the vowel in the last
>> syllable was also pronounced like a shwa, such that it might rhyme with
>> "fun".)
>
>> Any help on the proper spelling would be much appreciated.
>
>Aneurin ?
The first sound is "a" as in cat (short).
You have the "neu" correct - it is pronounced as the "ai" in "Thai"
There is no schwa in the final syllable - it is pronounced as the
English word "in". I'm sorry I don't have the phonetic alphabet fonts.
Darren's spelling is correct.
--
Nigel Evans
Morgan Wolf
"Nigel Evans" <ni...@bleddfa.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:OvvVJAA+...@bleddfa.freeserve.co.uk...
How the hell would you know? We all know you don't speak Welsh, so why are
you answering?
Oh, wait, it's another of those "Nigel Facts", of course, how silly of me,
by all means, illucidate us all, oh munificent one.
--
Morgan Wolf
Cymru am Byth
Nigel Evans
<mor...@theglobal.net> writes
>How the hell would you know? We all know you don't speak Welsh, so why are
>you answering?
>
>Oh, wait, it's another of those "Nigel Facts", of course, how silly of me,
>by all means, illucidate us all, oh munificent one.
OK. The reality is that my spoken Welsh is perfect and you, or anybody
else, would be quite unable to tell that I was not a fluent speaker of
the language if you listened to me reading Welsh. I am able to
understand a lot of Welsh and can speak a little. I was forced to learn
it in school and dropped it in favour of German because I did not like
being compelled to learn Welsh.I took lessons once a couple of years ago
but had to stop when I was sent to the South of England for three months
b y my employer. Since then I have made no efforts to start learning
Welsh because I've been to busy learning other languages.
No do me a favour and shut up !
--
Nigel Evans
Morgan Wolf
| In article <3a5a...@news.in-tch.com>, Morgan Wolf
| <mor...@theglobal.net> writes
| >How the hell would you know? We all know you don't speak Welsh, so why
are
| >you answering?
| >
| >Oh, wait, it's another of those "Nigel Facts", of course, how silly of
me,
| >by all means, illucidate us all, oh munificent one.
|
I am able to understand a lot of Welsh and can speak a little.
Anyone else see a blatant discrepancy here? Only Nigel could say he only
speaks a little and that his spoken Welsh is perfect in the same breath.
"I only know 3 Welsh words, but I can say them exactly right!"
| No do me a favour and shut up !
No.
In fact, after reading your tripe for the past couple of months, and seeing
idiocy like this, I promise you that each time you post something stupid,
I'm going to jump on you like... well, like a Welsh Wolf jumping on a tame
English sheep. Get used to it, or go away.
Heather Rose Jones
>
> If anyone could assist me in the proper spelling of a Welsh first name, I
> would appreciate it. We are attempting to delve into the history of our
> Welsh roots and we have been told by our older relatives that we had a
> relative by the name of...well, this is the problem, I can't spell it
> properly.
>
> Phonetically, it would like something like this: [uh-nai-ren}, or possibly
> beginning with a short [e], e.g. [e-nai-ren]. Thus, the after the initial
> shwa or short "e", the next two syllables would rhyme with "high" and
> "ten", respectively. (It is also possible that the vowel in the last
> syllable was also pronounced like a shwa, such that it might rhyme with
> "fun".)
>
> Any help on the proper spelling would be much appreciated.
That would almost certainly be "Aneirin" (also sometimes "Aneurin"), the
name of an early poet (author of the Gododdin) which has been revived
for popular use in the last century or so.
--
*********
Heather Rose Jones
hrj...@socrates.berkeley.edu
*********
Nigel Evans
<mor...@theglobal.net> writes
>Anyone else see a blatant discrepancy here? Only Nigel could say he only
>speaks a little and that his spoken Welsh is perfect in the same breath.
You must learn English. The Welsh language that I speak is perfect. If I
were prepared to make more errors, I might learn the language more
quickly. ( I've used the subjunctive here so don't send an English
lesson back to me.)
--
Nigel Evans
Muiris Mag Ualghairg
speakers do **not** use the 'ai' sound in that position! The correct
pronunciation is An-AY-rin, with the 'ay' being similar to the 'ay' in SAY.
Forget all the rubbish that people teach you in school about Welsh being
pronounced in particular ways and that all the combinations of words have
the same pronunciation - its rubbish! I am a Welsh teacher and am
constantly amazed by the willingness of some people to try to pass on this
pronunciation as correct when they themselves use the correct pronunciations
when they speak Welsh.
You will hear the 'ai' (thai) sound in singing - not natural - and also in
pausa. The in pausa pronunciation has been caused by many many years of
people being told that this is how Welsh should be pronounced. It also tends
to be used in hyper corrected south Wales Welsh (i.e. Welsh where the
speaker is making a special effort to change his/her pronunciation.
"Nigel Evans" <ni...@bleddfa.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:OvvVJAA+...@bleddfa.freeserve.co.uk...
Ivan...@rope.freeserve.co.uk
<mui...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>The correct pronunciation is not A-nai-ren (with the 'ai' of thai). Welsh
>speakers do **not** use the 'ai' sound in that position! The correct
>pronunciation is An-AY-rin, with the 'ay' being similar to the 'ay' in SAY.
>Forget all the rubbish that people teach you in school about Welsh being
>pronounced in particular ways and that all the combinations of words have
>the same pronunciation - its rubbish! I am a Welsh teacher and am
>constantly amazed by the willingness of some people to try to pass on this
>pronunciation as correct when they themselves use the correct pronunciations
>when they speak Welsh.
Yew aren't a valley boy, are ew? It's A-nai-ren where we come from.
Don't give me all that crap about correct pronunciation neither - its
the same argument that people do use about Oxford English, and that
ain't applicable to most of the English. Ew ave to face the fact that
those Gogs do speak from the back of their throats, as if they do ave
a mouthful of hot taters like. Wossamarrer with em, ats wot I wanna
know...
Ivan
BTW - Woss ewer name in Welsh then??
Nigel Evans
Mag Ualghairg <mui...@ntlworld.com> writes
>The correct pronunciation is not A-nai-ren (with the 'ai' of thai). Welsh
>speakers do **not** use the 'ai' sound in that position! The correct
>pronunciation is An-AY-rin, with the 'ay' being similar to the 'ay' in SAY.
>Forget all the rubbish that people teach you in school about Welsh being
>pronounced in particular ways and that all the combinations of words have
>the same pronunciation - its rubbish! I am a Welsh teacher and am
>constantly amazed by the willingness of some people to try to pass on this
>pronunciation as correct when they themselves use the correct pronunciations
>when they speak Welsh.
Language changes and so does pronunciation. My English language grammar
text books printed in the 1930's bear little resemblance to those now
acknowledged as being the modern day leaders.
You have made an error in the last sentence above. I think that you mean
to use "incorrect" before the word "pronunciations".
I had an Uncle Aneurin and use the pronunciation that was used by his
friends and family. A pronunciation is not written on a tablet of stone
and all must be prepared to accept variations.
I am lucky to have a very good ear for accents and, whilst I'm no
Professor Higgins, I can easily discern differences in pronunciation on
a town by town basis. "Aneurin" is very rare these days and it will be
pronounced very rarely. If it ever made a comeback it would be subjected
to the vagaries of the time of its resurrection. God knows how it will
sound in the future.
--
Nigel Evans
Nigel Evans
Ivan...@rope.freeserve.co.uk writes
>BTW - Woss ewer name in Welsh then??
Violet Elizabeth Bott ?
--
Nigel Evans
Muiris Mag Ualghairg
using an 'old pronunciation of this name or something. Welsh speakers
pronounce it as I have said, under the conditions that I have said, WHEREVER
they are from! It's a basic fact of Welsh language pronunciation and one of
the things which differentiates between learners and native speakers. I am
really tired of people on this newsgroup who have heard one pronunciation
(given by none Welsh speakers) and believe that Welsh speakers go around
using that pronunciation. My fiancé is called Rhian a lot off people (good
Welsh as they are but not Welsh speaking) call her 'ree -ANN, with the
stress on the ANN. She doesn't call herself this she calls herself Rhi-an.
If someone told me that it should be pronounced Ree-ANN should I call her
that? Of course not because it would not be the true Welsh language
pronunciation of her name.
My name is Muiris - pronounced Mwir'ish (the r' stands for a slender r in
Irish). Many people call me Moorish or Mirish both of which are WRONG. I
have even had people try to correct MY pronunciation because they know some
one but they don't speak Irish and don't know how it is pronounced in Irish.
The same is true with Aneurin - just because you pronounce it one way in
English (based on a misguided understanding of Welsh pronunciation) does not
mean that Welsh speakers ANYWHERE in Wales use that pronunciation.
BTW I did not mean incorrect - what I was trying to say is that many
teachers of Welsh teach one thing and ACTUALLY use another thing when they
themselves speak Welsh. I remember a training video for Welsh as a second
language with a teacher using RYDW I EISIAU (pronounced RUDOO I AY-SH -AI)
however when ever he actually spoke Welsh he said what all other south
Walian Welsh speakers said - Dwi eisiau (Dw ee ishe). He was teaching one
thing to his pupils and using another thing in reality. Having worked on
Welsh dialectology at the National Museum of Wales I can honestly tell you
that there is a lot of rubbish going around about Welsh pronounciation. The
technical name for the rule which explains why Aneurin in pronounced why I
said it is 'Rheol gwiriad ae' which basically means that the -ai (as in
Thai) can not occur in this position and it doesn't ANYWHERE IN NATIVE
WELSH!!!
"Nigel Evans" <ni...@bleddfa.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:LZ10kGAT$CX6...@bleddfa.freeserve.co.uk...
Nigel Evans
Mag Ualghairg <mui...@ntlworld.com> writes
>Having worked on
>Welsh dialectology at the National Museum of Wales I can honestly tell you
>that there is a lot of rubbish going around about Welsh pronounciation. The
>technical name for the rule which explains why Aneurin in pronounced why I
>said it is 'Rheol gwiriad ae' which basically means that the -ai (as in
>Thai) can not occur in this position and it doesn't ANYWHERE IN NATIVE
>WELSH!!!
>
Nobody can tell a native speaker how he should pronounce his own
language. His accent has developed as a result of his exposure to the
language in his lifetime and there is no such thing as an "incorrect"
pronunciation by virtue of a different pronunciation. When I speak
English I enunciate most vowels and schwa figures very little in my
speech. I have to force myself to think as another, more typically
English, person before I can write the phonetic spelling of a word so
that it might vaguely resemble that given in the major English
dictionaries. I'm not wrong. It's the way I have become.
Incidentally, the example that you give would come as a surprise to most
South Walians. Apart from the common word "siwgr" I have only detected a
"sh" sound in the place name Cefn Sidan. The letter "s" is produced as
in English.
I am opposed to the promotion of the Welsh language so that a few who
speak it because of an accident of birth might set themselves up as
being in some way superior to other Welsh people. I have nothing against
the language "per se" and I am not as ignorant of it as others would
like to think. The principal reason for me not speaking it is the same
reason why I do not speak fluent German or French. I am afraid to make
mistakes when I speak and this inhibits the use of the language.
--
Nigel Evans
Muiris Mag Ualghairg
exactly my point - native Welsh speakers pronounce Aneurin as I have said -
they do not use the kind of pronunciation which others try to pretent Welsh
speakers use in the false claim that Welsh is totally phonetic - it isn't.
I would encourage everybody to learn Welsh and use it, native speakers are
incredibly understanding of mistakes which learners make - however that does
not mean that people should not try to imitate native speakers - they should
and that goes for learners of any language. I, btw, learnt Welsh but use it
every day all day.
I don't find that 'a few who speak it because of an accident of birth ..set
themselves up as being in some way superior to other Welsh people' in fact I
have never found that at all. Perhaps you should actually give it a try and
you never know you might find that you actually enjoy being able to
communicate in Welsh.
John Sullivan
sgrifenodd Muiris Mag Ualghairg <mui...@ntlworld.com>
>You are right, languages do change but that does not mean that the I am
>using an 'old pronunciation of this name or something. Welsh speakers
>pronounce it as I have said, under the conditions that I have said, WHEREVER
>they are from! It's a basic fact of Welsh language pronunciation and one of
>the things which differentiates between learners and native speakers. I am
>really tired of people on this newsgroup who have heard one pronunciation
>(given by none Welsh speakers) and believe that Welsh speakers go around
>using that pronunciation. My fiancé is called Rhian a lot off people (good
>Welsh as they are but not Welsh speaking) call her 'ree -ANN, with the
>stress on the ANN. She doesn't call herself this she calls herself Rhi-an.
>If someone told me that it should be pronounced Ree-ANN should I call her
>that? Of course not because it would not be the true Welsh language
>pronunciation of her name.
You're lucky. I have a cousin called Rhian, and the worst excess that
she has been subject to is to be called "Ryan", and this was at a public
presentation, too. She soon put the announcer to rights (or is that
rhights? :-)
>
>My name is Muiris - pronounced Mwir'ish (the r' stands for a slender r in
>Irish). Many people call me Moorish or Mirish both of which are WRONG. I
>have even had people try to correct MY pronunciation because they know some
>one but they don't speak Irish and don't know how it is pronounced in Irish.
But, surely, if they correct your pronunciation it is a fair assumption
that they speak Irish, so naturally you slip into Irish and carry on
until they stop you? And then "If you don't speak Irish, how _dare_ you
correct my pronunciation?"
>The same is true with Aneurin - just because you pronounce it one way in
>English (based on a misguided understanding of Welsh pronunciation) does not
>mean that Welsh speakers ANYWHERE in Wales use that pronunciation.
>
--
John Sullivan Remove the dots in yDdraigGoch for my real address.
-------------
Virtuoso: someone who plays pieces of music of little artistic merit
faster and louder than anyone else.
Muiris Mag Ualghairg
but I can assure you that the pronounciation in Say (which I confess is
based on a Northern English pronunciation) is a lot closer than -ai- in
Thai. And off course not every native Welsh speakers pronounce the 'eu'
sound in exactly the same way - everybody has their own ideolect- however
they tend to pronounce it more or less in the same way, and that does not
include the form given as -ai- in thai.
"Geraint Jones" <Gerain...@wolfson.oxford.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:93vo40$8t7$1...@daedalus.wolf.ox.ac.uk...
> "Muiris Mag Ualghairg" <mui...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> ( Indeed, a native speaker is the ultimate guide to a language, which is
> ) exactly my point - native Welsh speakers pronounce Aneurin as I have
said -
>
> Perhaps I'm not a native Welsh speaker, then. That's good.
> I wouldn't want to be one of those, no. Do all native Welsh
> speakers pronounce the "-eu-" as though it were an English
> sound that you don't get in Welsh, then? My experience is
> that many English people can't tell the difference between
> northern Welsh "eu" and RP English "ay". Or maybe you meant
> that they pronounce it the way that they pronounce their
> English if they pronounce English with a heavy Welsh accent,
> in which case you'd surely forgive me for thinking that it
> would have been misleading of you to use that as a way of
> conveying the pronunciation.
Nigel Evans
Mag Ualghairg <mui...@ntlworld.com> writes
>I was approxomating the sound - I have difficulty writing IPA on a computer
>but I can assure you that the pronounciation in Say (which I confess is
>based on a Northern English pronunciation) is a lot closer than -ai- in
>Thai. And off course not every native Welsh speakers pronounce the 'eu'
>sound in exactly the same way - everybody has their own ideolect- however
>they tend to pronounce it more or less in the same way, and that does not
>include the form given as -ai- in thai.
How should I pronounce the word "teulu" ?
--
Nigel Evans
John Sullivan
Evans <ni...@bleddfa.freeserve.co.uk>
"Family"
Gwilym ab Ioan
| Yer "Muiris Mag Ualghairg" <mui...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
| ( I was approxomating the sound - I have difficulty writing IPA on a
computer
| ) but I can assure you that the pronunciation in Say (which I confess is
| ( based on a Northern English pronunciation) is a lot closer than -ai- in
| ) Thai. And off course not every native Welsh speakers pronounce the 'eu'
| ( sound in exactly the same way - everybody has their own ideolect-
however
| ) they tend to pronounce it more or less in the same way, and that does
not
| ( include the form given as -ai- in thai.
|
| Oh, right. So now you're *not* telling me that I'm not a native
| Welsh speaker any more are you? I do wish you'd make up your
| mind. This sort of thing can be very confusing you know. And
| it can be very damaging to have an unstable self-image.
|
| When you say "Northern English", do you mean Knutsford, do you
| mean Blackburn, do you mean Leigh, do you mean Keswick, do you
| mean Scarborough, do you mean Gateshead, do you mean Preston,
| do you mean Carlisle, or do you mean awfully close to but not
| quite in Berwick upon Tweed? How can you expect us to tell?
|
| O, cymon naw, dw pe y densiyn.
*********************************
Geraint - why don't you act your age and not your shoe size? And stop
persisting in waffling and arguing just for argument's sake on a subject you
obviously know nothing at all about.
Muiris is absolutely correct in what she says, and I'm surprised that she
has had the patience to persist so long with this thread. Wasted energy -
more casting of "pearls before swine" in my book.
Hwyl -
Gwilym
Dave Thomas
<gwi...@cambria.f9.co.uk> writes
I think you may be a little surprised at what Geraint knows about Welsh
Language and Literature Gwilym!!!
>
>Muiris is absolutely correct in what she says, and I'm surprised that she
>has had the patience to persist so long with this thread. Wasted energy -
>more casting of "pearls before swine" in my book.
Ahemm!! Muiris is a he I believe!!
Hwyl
dave
--
Dave Thomas
Gwilym ab Ioan
"Dave Thomas" <da...@qantam.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:n+0YdWAF...@qantam.demon.co.uk...
OOPS!!!!!!!! - Shows up my Gaelic doesn't it? I should also pay more
attention to detail when reading these threads.
Diolch Dave -
Cofion Cynnes, Gwilym (Welsh MALE)
####################################
Nigel Evans
>Geraint - why don't you act your age and not your shoe size? And stop
>persisting in waffling and arguing just for argument's sake on a subject you
>obviously know nothing at all about.
Sir, you are the long lost "Nutcase of Llanybydder" ( as reported by
Gerald of Brecon in 1236 ) and I claim my prize !
>
>Muiris is absolutely correct in what she says, and I'm surprised that she
>has had the patience to persist so long with this thread. Wasted energy -
>more casting of "pearls before swine" in my book.
I would imagine that your book is very small and has lots of pictures in
it.
--
Nigel Evans
Muiris Mag Ualghairg
Nigel Evans
Mag Ualghairg <mui...@ntlworld.com> writes
> Nigel, there is no need to be insulting to others on this
> newsgroup.
I agree. But, I am a little confused. When did I insult anybody ? Are
you sure you're not confusing me with somebody else ?
Your explanation of the pronunciation of the word "Aneurin" is most
unconvincing. You have expressed yourself very poorly in English and I
have to admit that your reasoning is incomprehensible. Are you trying to
distinguish between diphthongs of different length ? Or, are you trying
to distinguish between the sounds on the basis of pitch ?
The principal reason for you being wrong is that you fail to acknowledge
that the pronunciation of a word is determined by those who say it. The
professors don't decide the pronunciation. If they do their work
properly they listen to others speaking and report accordingly.
I offer you some guidance so that you may make yourself understood. You
have provided only one equivalent sound i.e. that which sounds like the
word "Thai". Why don't you provide us with an example of the other sound
so that we may appreciate it ?
--
Nigel Evans
Gwilym ab Ioan
| Yer "Gwilym ab Ioan" <gwi...@cambria.f9.co.uk> wrote:
| ( - why don't you act your age and not your shoe size? And stop
| ) persisting in waffling and arguing just for argument's sake on a
subject you
| ( obviously know nothing at all about.
|
| Thank you for drawing my attention to the entertaining fact
| - well, it entertains me - that my shoes, which happen to
| be Danish and sized in foreign, are in fact the same size
| as my age. That's not going to happen for much longer.
|
| ( - why don't you act your age and not your shoe size? And stop
| ) persisting in waffling and arguing just for argument's sake on a
subject you
| ( obviously know nothing at all about.
|
| Oh, well, you know, I only do it when someone is delighting
| in making blatantaly false assertions about things I might
| possibly know somethign about. Besides which I think Muiris
| and Nigel are as bad as each other and they had had the
| thread to themselves. It was getting boring.
#####################################
Point taken - I appologise then. Incidentally what you said about your
Danish shoe size I also find quite funny under the circumstances - nice cool
retort, I take my cap off to you!
No hard feelings -
Gwilym
Nigel Evans
<Gerain...@wolfson.oxford.ac.uk> writes
>Thank you for drawing my attention to the entertaining fact
>- well, it entertains me - that my shoes, which happen to
>be Danish and sized in foreign, are in fact the same size
>as my age. That's not going to happen for much longer.
Why ? Are your feet about to change drastically in size ? Are you eating
the right type of food ?
>Oh, well, you know, I only do it when someone is delighting
>in making blatantaly false assertions about things I might
>possibly know somethign about. Besides which I think Muiris
>and Nigel are as bad as each other and they had had the
>thread to themselves. It was getting boring.
I agree. Muriel is a fool. She should stick to Gaelic. Please accept
that I am not being abusive her, just trying to say it as it is.
--
Nigel Evans
Muiris Mag Ualghairg
'Sir, you are the long lost "Nutcase of Llanybydder" ( as reported by Gerald
of Brecon in 1236 ) and I claim my prize !?
If so then I think that that was insulting. As for everything else, it is
obvious that you don't have any idea what you are on about. I used the
example 'thai' as that was the example which was given when somebody asked
how to pronounce the name. I corrected that to a closer (English language)
approximation of the correct sound. I have provided you with the
International Phonetic Alphabet notations for the signs, including
references. Unless you are some sort of expert on Welsh language phonology I
would suggest that you go and do some research before you keep trying to
advise people on the 'correct' pronunciation, based on some hazy notion
which you may have of the Welsh language. I also wonder, how much Welsh you
actually know?
I understand the importance of 'the pronunciation of a word is determined by
those who say it' but that must be tempered by a respect for the usage of
the language it actually comes from - in this case Welsh, whether you like
it or not it is a WELSH LANGUAGE NAME and as such Welsh language
pronunciation is the correct one for it! It is not pronounced as was earlier
suggested as A-nai-ren as you, yourself, seemed to suggest, and I quote!
"The first sound is "a" as in cat (short).
> You have the "neu" correct - it is pronounced as the "ai" in "Thai"
> There is no schwa in the final syllable - it is pronounced as the
> English word "in". I'm sorry I don't have the phonetic alphabet fonts.
>
> Darren's spelling is correct.
> --
> Nigel Evans"
This is basically incorrect for WELSH and you will have to admit, it is a
WELSH language name!.
Muiris Mag Ualghairg
Nigel Evans
Mag Ualghairg <mui...@ntlworld.com> writes
>I have provided you with the
>International Phonetic Alphabet notations for the signs, including
>references. Unless you are some sort of expert on Welsh language phonology I
>would suggest that you go and do some research before you keep trying to
>advise people on the 'correct' pronunciation, based on some hazy notion
>which you may have of the Welsh language. I also wonder, how much Welsh you
>actually know?
I am not familiar with the symbol which contains " @ ". ( This is the
closest that I can get without the other phonetic fonts. ) No such
symbol appears in the works of Gimson.
I know more Welsh than I am prepared to admit to. I have just returned
from a university where I spent a long time talking with a man who has a
doctorate as a result of his thesis which was about phonology. He
confirms my pronunciation of "Aneurin". I cannot name him because it
would be unfair to involve his name in a debate with you.
My pronunciation is right. Yours is wrong.
I quote from the Oxford book on Origin of Names ( precise title escapes
me ) :
Aneirin (m.) Welsh: of uncertain derivation. The original form of the
name was Neirin, with the initial A- developing in the 13th century ; it
may be derived from an element cognate with Irish Gaelic "nar" noble,
modest. The name was borne by the first known Welsh poet, who lived
c.600. The "Book of Aneirin" is a 13th century manuscript which purports
to preserve his work, including the "Gododdin", a long work about the
defeat of the Welsh by the Saxons.
Variant: Aneurin ( a modern form )
Pet form: Nye (popularised as a result of the fame of the statesman
Aneurin Bevan, 1897-1960.
I suspect that your incorrect pronunciation is based on your use of the
older spelling. Some people pronounce "ei" as "ay" in May. It is not
uncommon to hear Meirionedd being pronounced Mayrionedd.
>
>I understand the importance of 'the pronunciation of a word is determined by
>those who say it' but that must be tempered by a respect for the usage of
>the language it actually comes from - in this case Welsh, whether you like
>it or not it is a WELSH LANGUAGE NAME and as such Welsh language
>pronunciation is the correct one for it! It is not pronounced as was earlier
>suggested as A-nai-ren as you, yourself, seemed to suggest, and I quote!
>
>"The first sound is "a" as in cat (short).
>> You have the "neu" correct - it is pronounced as the "ai" in "Thai"
>> There is no schwa in the final syllable - it is pronounced as the
>> English word "in". I'm sorry I don't have the phonetic alphabet fonts.
>>
>> Darren's spelling is correct.
>> --
>> Nigel Evans"
>
>
>This is basically incorrect for WELSH and you will have to admit, it is a
>WELSH language name!.
I have given a full explanation but you seem to be rather slow at
understanding me. Your incorrect pronunciation is based on two things :
(a) you have failed to realise that the modern spelling of the name
contains the letters "eu". The different spelling should be sufficient
to convince a normal person that the pronunciation might be different
too.
(b) you have failed to distinguish between the two possible sounds
represented by the letters "ei".
By an incredible coincidence, my mother received bad news about
Aneurin's son this morning. We had not spoken about that part of our
family for many years. My mother dropped the initial vowel of his name
when she spoke . To the family he was " 'neurin".
One final point - there is no point in giving references when replying
to a post. You have to prove that you have read and assimilated the
references yourself and use your own words to express those ideas if you
agree with them. Your failure to do no more than provide page numbers is
an indication that you have neither read nor understood the references.
--
Nigel Evans
Muiris Mag Ualghairg
I can't get over you. I speak Welsh and well aware of the pronunciation of
EU and EI neither is pronounced as 'ai' in Thai which is what you claim. I
have provided you with references from all over Wales, various phonetic
transcriptions from different dialect areas. I have read (and indeed own)
all the major works on Welsh phonology. I agree that there is no @ sign in
the International Phonetic Alphabet - that's why I explained that I was
using a phonetic font - did you read what I said? Here it is again for your
benefit
PLEASE NOTE THAT THIS HAS BEEN FORMATTED IN ORDER TO ALLOW ME TO USE
DIFFERENT FONTS - the fonts used are Times New Roman and 'Times New Roman
Phonetics'.
If you have 'Times New Roman Phonetics' you would have seen the schwa sound
(neutral vowel). NOBODY who speaks Welsh pronounces EU as 'ai' in Thai - you
may do but Welsh speakers don't. As for your friend who you will not name I
am afraid that I have to call your bluff and say that I don't believe this
friend exists. I would be interested to know who he/she is as I know a fair
number of people working in the field of Welsh at most of the Universities
in Wales (and indeed abroad) which is only what one would expect from a
graduate in Irish and Welsh!
As I have already said there is no point in continuing with this discussion
until you can give me some indication as to how well qualified you are
regarding this. Can you speak Welsh? Can you read Welsh? Have you studied
Welsh beyond a little bit at school? If the answer to these is no then you
are talking from hearsay and from how you believe the name should be
pronounced, it may be by you and your family but does not make it the
correct Welsh language way of pronouncing it!
Also you said 'I quote from the Oxford book on Origin of Names ( precise
title escapes me )' : Did you copy this quote out of the book or make it
up - as if I quoted something from a book the 'Precise' title wouldn't
escape me - I'd look at the front and see what it's called! There really is
no point in continuing on with this until you are willing to open your mind
to the reality that you know very little about the Welsh language and as
such give misleading advice on it.
Beth am inni barhau i drafod hyn trwy gyfrwng y Gymraeg fel y gallom drafod
y materion yr yr iaith ei hun - wedi'r cwbl haeri dy fod yn gwybod mwy o
Gymraeg nac yr wyt yn fodlon ei gyfaddef ar hyn o bryd?
Muiris Mag Ualghairg
DIFFERENT FONTS - the fonts used are Times New Roman and 'Times New Roman
Phonetics'.
Nigel Evans
Mag Ualghairg <mui...@ntlworld.com> writes
> As for your friend who you will not name I
>am afraid that I have to call your bluff and say that I don't believe this
>friend exists. I would be interested to know who he/she is as I know a fair
>number of people working in the field of Welsh at most of the Universities
>in Wales (and indeed abroad) which is only what one would expect from a
>graduate in Irish and Welsh!
I am not prepared to debate anything with anybody who is prepared to
call me a liar. The man exists but common courtesy compels me to keep
his identity secret. I am not prepared to give details of his
qualifications for fear of identifying him. I so no reason why his name
should appear in a debate involving someone like you.
I am not bothering to read any more of your post let alone reply to it.
You may wish to pay attention to the use of your software. This message
has been reproduced three times and in two different formats. It makes
little sense on a first reading. Only the demented would wish to read it
three times. Goodbye !
--
Nigel Evans
Muiris Mag Ualghairg
I had decided that I was going to let sleeping fools lie and not reply to
you but I have just read over some of your other posts and realised that you
use the same tactics time and time again - if some one disagrees with you
regarding the Welsh language you attack the standard of their English. You
did this to me, despite my English being above average (and I can prove that
as well). You also did it, by implication, to Steven Meredith when you
wrote, in reply to his comment that not everyone uses English on the
Internet
This is true. You seem to be struggling yourself.
news:Xs1jpGAr...@bleddfa.freeserve.co.uk...
How can you justify this blatant attitude problem you have? As for me
calling you a liar - I have to say if the cap fits wear it (and if you
really feel justified SUE ME!)! I have never heard such a ridiculous
argument as, paraphrasing you, 'I've got a friend at a university but I'm
not going to name him and he's an expert and he tells me I'm right and
you're wrong, so there'. As I have already declared I have a degree in the
subject in question, I have given you references to numerous sources which
might go some way to enlightening you regarding Welsh pronunciation but
instead of accepting that I do actually know more than you do on this point
you have disparaged the standard of modern Welsh research by your comment
'The professors don't decide the pronunciation. If they do their work
properly they listen'. Were you really suggesting that ALL the sources I
quoted had decided to lie about how to pronounce the sound represented by
*EU*, by the way it is the same in most southern dialects to that
represented by *EI*. I understand that you have a better ear than Welsh
speaking academics from all parts of Wales - I even checked the
pronunciation recorded in The Welsh Dialect Survey by Iwan Wmffre -
published last year- loe and behold *Eu* and *EI* are pronounced close to
what I said. Iwan used <EJ> as the phonetic transcription but as <J> is
considered a glide of <I> then that's a small difference.
I really do thing that you should LEARN Welsh and learn something about
Welsh pronunciation. I have decided though to take a leave out of your book
and if anybody asks me how one pronounces the name NIGEL I will say that the
local pronunciation is PRAT - and hey my pronunciation is as good as yours.
I will even find a friend at university to record it as a valid form, but I
wouldn't want to declare his name to the likes of you.
Gwilym ab Ioan
###############################################
I can vouch for the fact that Nigel is what can be called an habitual liar.
His lies take the form of personal fantasies - if you read his past
postings, (and the rebukes that he has regularly received, because he has
been caught out fantasising so many times) you will realise that he has a
problem.
Psychologists are well aware of this type of condition, it is a phenomenon
which can be proved by a simple test - call him a liar in public (as on a NG
such as this) and he will react in a typical way, like all persons who do
indeed fantasise - sometimes called habitual liars.
The reaction from Mr Evans is normally something like "I AM NOT A LIAR!
DON'T YOU DARE CALL ME THAT AGAIN!" or something similar, or he threatens to
sulk and not respond again. He has done it so many times that you can follow
the pattern. It is because he is human and knows his weakness, when you
expose that weakness you get the resultant knee jerk reaction. It's a well
documented type of mental illness.
I no longer answer his posts as I feel a little guilty about aggravating his
condition. I suggest that all you others treat him kindly in the same
manner. News Groups are a collection centre for such people - for obvious
reasons.
Hwyl Fawr,
Gwilym
P.S. Watch the reaction to this one!
#########################################
Gwilym ab Ioan
"Muiris Mag Ualghairg" <mui...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message news:u9_96.828$4k4....@news2-win.server.ntlworld.com...
####################################################################################################Muiris -Cymerwch gyngor, peidiwch a gwastraffu rhagor o'ch hamser. Yr wyf wedi postio nodyn yn ateb i'w neges olaf i'r perwyl yma.Cofion Cynnes ,GwilymO.N. A dderbynioch y neges a helais i chi yn bersonol?
Pat Marley
resident wombat:
> I had decided that I was going to let sleeping fools lie and not reply to
> you but I have just read over some of your other posts and realised that you
> use the same tactics time and time again - if some one disagrees with you
> regarding the Welsh language you attack the standard of their English.
Alas, poor Nigel!
(Muttered aside: should that be pronounced "N (short i has in shit) (hard g as
in grunt) el" or "N (straining i as in ee ) (hard g again grunting) el"?
Surely it cannot be "N (long i as in shite) (soft g as in haemorhage) el".
Hmmmm. Yes. I think the latter. The latter "i" matches the quality of his
thought and the latter "g" matches his endless flow of meaningless verbiage.
We can even coin a new word in N(shite)(haemorhage)el's honour: combine verbiage
and garbage - a form of garbiage. We have malapropisms. We have spoonerisms.
We now have nigelisms.)
Back to Muiris Mag Ualghairg. I am interested in your name. Would you care
to give us the Anglicised version? I have a minor interest in such things.
As is evident, my surname probably comes from some historically obscure English
refugee seeking a better life in Wales many generations ago.
Oh! Nearly forgot! One more thing about poor N(shite)(haemorhage)el - please
don't confuse the sad lad with facts. He can't cope with facts. He has the
mental processes of a lobotomised blow-fly. An English lobotomised blowfly.
Pat
--
_______________________
Pat Marley
Patmar Educational Services
Member: Melbourne PC User Group, Australia
email: pat...@NOSPAMmelbpc.org.au
Pat Marley
Pat
Dave Thomas
<pat...@NOSPAMmelbpc.org.au> writes
>
>Back to Muiris Mag Ualghairg. I am interested in your name. Would you care
>to give us the Anglicised version? I have a minor interest in such things.
>As is evident, my surname probably comes from some historically obscure English
>refugee seeking a better life in Wales many generations ago.
There were only 36 Marleys' living in Wales in 1881 Pat. Most of them in
Swansea with a few around Cardiff and Newport. They seem to have
relocated in Wales from Somerset with one or two from Devon.
If you are from the Swansea *clan* I would probably have some more info
on these!
dave
--
Dave Thomas
Ivan...@rope.freeserve.co.uk
<pat...@NOSPAMmelbpc.org.au> wrote:
>Alas, poor Nigel!
>
>(Muttered aside: should that be pronounced "N (short i has in shit) (hard g as
>in grunt) el" or "N (straining i as in ee ) (hard g again grunting) el"?
>Surely it cannot be "N (long i as in shite) (soft g as in haemorhage) el".
>Hmmmm. Yes. I think the latter.
Is this 'Pat' as in 'Cowpat'??
Ad-hominem is very boring, don't you think? Why don't you offer an
academic refutation of Nigels supposition if you disagree with it? Or
are you unable to do this? Not a very good advert for an 'educational
consultant' eh??
Ivan
Pat Marley
"Dave Thomas" <da...@qantam.demon.co.uk> wrote :
> There were only 36 Marleys' living in Wales in 1881 Pat. Most of them in
> Swansea with a few around Cardiff and Newport. They seem to have
> relocated in Wales from Somerset with one or two from Devon.
>
> If you are from the Swansea *clan* I would probably have some more info
> on these!
Indeed. My grandfather, Gwilym Rhys Marley was born in Bristol of Welsh family
in 1870 and raised in Swansea . Family lore has it that they were from Swansea
and returned "home" with baby Gwilym. He married my grandmother, Eliza Jeffs,
in Dinas Powis (Dynas Powys) in about 1900(?) All very vague - my Marley
relatives still in/around Cardiff are vague about such things. Gwilym Rhys
Marley died in Cardiff in 1945 at 75 yrs.
Pat Marley
> Is this 'Pat' as in 'Cowpat'??
LOL! Touche!
Nah. I was having a stir. Nigel is such a wombat,and himself the greatest
exponent of ad hominism :-)
Dave Thomas
<pat...@NOSPAMmelbpc.org.au> writes
>
>"Dave Thomas" <da...@qantam.demon.co.uk> wrote :
>
>> There were only 36 Marleys' living in Wales in 1881 Pat. Most of them in
>> Swansea with a few around Cardiff and Newport. They seem to have
>> relocated in Wales from Somerset with one or two from Devon.
>>
>> If you are from the Swansea *clan* I would probably have some more info
>> on these!
>
>Indeed. My grandfather, Gwilym Rhys Marley was born in Bristol of Welsh family
>in 1870 and raised in Swansea . Family lore has it that they were from Swansea
>and returned "home" with baby Gwilym. He married my grandmother, Eliza Jeffs,
>in Dinas Powis (Dynas Powys) in about 1900(?) All very vague - my Marley
>relatives still in/around Cardiff are vague about such things. Gwilym Rhys
>Marley died in Cardiff in 1945 at 75 yrs.
>
Your grandfather Gwilym was the son of William Aaron Marley who was born
in Newton Abbot, Devon circa 1843. William married a daughter of William
Rees, a stonemason of Danygraig, Swansea who was born circa 1808 and
widowed young. He probably remarried about 1852 to the Rees daughter.
William seems to have been the son of another William Rees who was born
circa 1771.
It looks like Gwilym was born in Bristol and came back with his father
to live with his grandparents in Swansea possibly after the death of his
mother as his father is listed as a widow in 1881.
This may be Eliza in 1881
*****************
Dwelling:
Census Place: Cardiff St Andrews, Glamorgan, Wales
Source: FHL Film 1342273 PRO Ref RG11 Piece 5292 Folio
86 Page 15
Marr Age Sex Birthplace
Frank JEFFS M 27 M Birmingham, Warwick, England
Rel: Head
Occ: Railway Porter
Hannah JEFFS M 29 F St Andrews, Glamorgan, Wales
Rel: Wife
Lavira JEFFS 6 F St Andrews, Glamorgan, Wales
Rel: Daur
Occ: Scholar
Eliza JEFFS 5 F St Andrews, Glamorgan, Wales
Rel: Daur
Occ: Scholar
James JEFFS 2 M St Andrews, Glamorgan, Wales
Rel: Son
******************************
Hope this is of interest.
Nigel Evans
<da...@qantam.demon.co.uk> writes
>Hi Pat,
>
>Your grandfather Gwilym was the son of William Aaron Marley who was born
>in Newton Abbot, Devon circa 1843. William married a daughter of William
>Rees, a stonemason of Danygraig, Swansea who was born circa 1808 and
>widowed young.
Is e-mail too taxing for you ? Why do you seek to carry on private
conversation in public ? I don't give a damn for the previous Marley
ghosts. What the Dickens are you doing ?
--
Nigel Evans
Muiris Mag Ualghairg
a few Marleys I think it was nice to read the follow up - then again you
wouldn't would you. But if push comes to shove on this issue - 'I've got a
friend at an unnamed university who has done a PHD on the subject of what is
interesting and what is not and he tells me that I am right that this is
interesting to some people and that you are wrong in asking if they know how
to use email - so there'`
By the way are you willing to reveal who is your 'mythical Welsh Expert'? I
have asked around my limited circle of friends (most of whom work in the
field!) and none of them admits to knowing you - perhaps one of them does
and is too embarrassed to admit it.
Finally, if you have no interest in a post, why don't you just refrain from
reading the post? That's what I would do with yours if they weren't so
funny!!!!
Muiris
Dave Thomas
A: Thai Dai.
--
Dave Thomas
Dave Thomas
>William seems to have been the son of another William Rees who was born
>circa 1771.
Sorry! That should have read - He probably remarried about 1852 and had
a daughter who was to become Gwilym's mother!!!
--
Dave Thomas
Nigel Evans
<da...@qantam.demon.co.uk> writes
>Q: What do you call an ex-pat from Merthyr living in Thailand?
>
>A: Thai Dai.
Poot pahsaah Thai dai mai ?
--
Nigel Evans
Morgan Wolf
--
Morgan Wolf
Cymru am Byth
"Nigel Evans" <ni...@bleddfa.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:S5ryMBAZ...@bleddfa.fsnet.co.uk...
Nigel Evans
<mor...@theglobal.net> writes
>Nigel, you're lying again, now in Thai.
>
>
>--
>Morgan Wolf
You are a very immature person and you are making yourself look very
stupid. Now, please, if you have nothing meaningful to say, don't
address me.
--
Nigel Evans
Pat Marley
family, and has added another couple of generations to our family tree. We are
continuing by email.
I just want it publicly noted that I am deeply grateful to Dave.
Morgan Wolf
"Nigel Evans" <ni...@bleddfa.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:tOXNBWAr...@bleddfa.fsnet.co.uk...
I have plenty meaningful to say, and will gladly say it to those I respect,
such as Pat Marley, Dewi Gwyn, and many others. YOU, on the other hand,
have already established that you deserve no such respect, so you'll
continue to get the ridicule you DO so richly deserve. If you don't like
it, the solution is simple- if you don't post, i won't ridicule you.
Nigel Evans
<mor...@theglobal.net> writes
>I have plenty meaningful to say, and will gladly say it to those I respect,
>such as Pat Marley, Dewi Gwyn, and many others. YOU, on the other hand,
>have already established that you deserve no such respect, so you'll
>continue to get the ridicule you DO so richly deserve. If you don't like
>it, the solution is simple- if you don't post, i won't ridicule you.
You behaviour is unacceptable. I hold different beliefs to you. My
beliefs are based on a lifetime living in Wales. I am entitled to hold
contrary views.
In the early days of this newsgroup Welsh language supporters and
nationalists did all they could to drive away people who did not share
their beliefs. You are acting in the same way and this is shameful.
You will never succeed in ridiculing me but you will succeed in lowering
the tone of the group.
You are entitled to express your views but you will be regarded as a
very shallow person if you continue to attack me simply in order to get
rid of me.
If you persist in your behaviour you will discourage others to
participate in this newsgroup. Do you want the group to be successful ?
If so, you'd better change your attitude. There should be room for all
points of view.
Incidentally, don't immediately assume that you have everybody else's
support. Many will disagree with my views but most are prepared to allow
me to express them.
--
Nigel Evans
Morgan Wolf
Nigel Nigel Nigel, it's not your views I don't like, it's YOU. Your
attitude, your constant lying, your midstream fact changes, your mystery
experts, YOU. I'm obviously not a Welsh Nationalist, since I'm not Welsh.
I am not concerned if others support my dislike of you, my dislike can stand
on it's own. You are welcome to post al you want, I'm not trying to stop
you, I said if you don't like me ridiculing you, don't post. Personally, I
hope you keep posting your made-up facts and proof from non-existent
experts, it helps pass the time. As for my posts "discouraging others" and
"hurting the group", if your fantasies and nonsense don't hurt it, nothing I
can do will.
I told you before Nigel, get used to the idea of me slamming you every time
you post your tripe.
Nigel Evans
>attitude, your constant lying, your midstream fact changes, your mystery
>experts, YOU.
I don't lie and I take exception to your remarks. You are a very
immature person and you lower the tone of this newsgroup.
--
Nigel Evans
Nigel Evans
>I'm obviously not a Welsh Nationalist, since I'm not Welsh.
No, I can see that. Please accept my apologies. I did not realise that I
was communicating with Royalty. I want to join your organisation and I
have chosen the following title :
Baron Nigel, Chief Penguin Slayer and Lord of the Bont.
Of course, it's not as grand as yours which I reproduce below together
with advice which other posters to s.c.w. may find useful if they ever
decide to march North wearing armour and can't afford a decent hotel.
I quote :
As a sometime pavillion merchant, I would be glad to offer my
assistance.
please respond privately if such is desired.
Lord Morgan Blaidd Du,
Ghillie to Baron James Ulrich MacKellar, OL
and Baroness Rachel Ashton, OP
I am sure that there is somebody eating your porridge in the big house
in Bridgend !
--
Nigel Evans
Morgan Wolf
Of course you never lie, you just make up facts to fit your stories, that's
not lying, is it?
Morgan Wolf
Nigel, you coc oen, I didn't choose any of those titles, as Heather Rose
Jones can tell you. I am deeply honored by all that is written there, but
*I* keep it in it's context. I see that you put special effort into finding
else what other newsgroups I post to, in an attempt to embarass me. Bad
news bubba, I'm not the least embarassed, I'm proud of the things I do in
the SCA, and will happily discuss with anyone.
Except you.
Nigel Evans
<mor...@theglobal.net> writes
>Nigel, you coc oen, I didn't choose any of those titles, as Heather Rose
>Jones can tell you. I am deeply honored by all that is written there, but
>*I* keep it in it's context. I see that you put special effort into finding
>else what other newsgroups I post to, in an attempt to embarass me. Bad
>news bubba, I'm not the least embarassed, I'm proud of the things I do in
>the SCA, and will happily discuss with anyone.
>
>Except you.
You are living in a dream world and have no idea of reality. It is no
wonder that your perception of history is so flawed. You live in a world
which includes the kingdoms of Aethelmark, Artemesia, Atlantia and God
knows what other absurdities.
If you want to dress up as a Norman knight then it's your right to do
so. If you want to give fellow members of your cult grand titles then do
so. Act the child as much as you like but don't try to engage me in
conversation because I'm particular about the people I talk to.
Now, go and make yourself a tent !
--
Nigel Evans
Morgan Wolf
Point the first- YOU brought my involvment in the SCA into the discussion,
through methods commonly described in the US as "stalking", into the thread,
not me.
Point the second- All of the names involved in the SCA are based on a
specific period of historical research, as compared to asking Casper the
Friendly Welsh Expert/Ghost.
Point the third- I have no desire to "engage you in conversation", I prefer
to highlight your idiocy so that everyone else can laugh at you, much like
when you go out in public.
Point the fourth- I make medieval period (in appearance) camping gear and
large pavillions, average 8 feet deep by 12 feet wide by 12 feet high, as a
business. Your pitiful (much like the rest of your existence) attempt at
humor/insult is even more ridiculous than usual. You might as well tell
yourself to go make up another expert.
Nigel Evans
>specific period of historical research, as compared to asking Casper the
>Friendly Welsh Expert/Ghost.
I use my own name. It was given to me by my parents and I have no reason
to be ashamed of it. You are forced to call yourself all manner of
names. Are you ashamed of the real you ? Why do you hide behind noms de
plume ?
You are free to call yourself whatever you want. Just don't call me
again.
--
Nigel Evans
Morgan Wolf
Call you? I'm sorry, I could have sworn it was you who slimed your way onto
an NG you have no business being on, posted tripe, and got slaaped down so
hard you haven't been back. I guess it was your mysterious Welsh expert,
borrowing your PC, huh?
Nigel Evans
<mor...@theglobal.net> writes
>Call you? I'm sorry, I could have sworn it was you who slimed your way onto
>an NG you have no business being on, posted tripe, and got slaaped down so
>hard you haven't been back. I guess it was your mysterious Welsh expert,
>borrowing your PC, huh?
Slapped down ? You must be joking. I'm amazed to find there are so many
nutcases in the world. Last night I went surfing to find wacky Americans
who sought a connection with Wales. Too easy. Would you like to be a
Welsh witch ? It will only cost you a few hundred dollars and you get to
wear a black dress as well.
But, in truth, I thank you for this post. It is clear evidence of your
childishness. I had "no business being on" a Usenet newsgroup ? Who says
so ? You are a strange person who seeks to associate himself with a
country which means nothing to him. It gives you funny names for your
titles and helps you pretend that there is a real fairyland.
I'm waiting for the announcement of the closure of a major steelworks.
This will devastate a part of Wales in a way that the so-called "wicked
English" never did. In live in Wales. It is not a myth for me.
--
Nigel Evans
Gareth Williams
> You are a strange person who seeks to associate himself with a
> country which means nothing to him. <snip> I live in Wales. It is not a
>myth for me.
Surely you would agree that simply being a resident of a
particular country does not give you carte blanche to ride roughshod over
its citizens or its indigenous culture. The outsider is surely no less
empowered to make value judgments over the plight of a beseiged minority if
he or she perceives that a wrong has been wrought? Or, in fairness, to
support the perceived "oppressor" if that is what they feel compelled to do?
--
Regards,
Gareth Williams
Nigel Evans
<gar...@fake.garw.uklinux.net> writes
>Surely you would agree that simply being a resident of a
>particular country does not give you carte blanche to ride roughshod over
>its citizens or its indigenous culture. The outsider is surely no less
>empowered to make value judgments over the plight of a beseiged minority if
>he or she perceives that a wrong has been wrought? Or, in fairness, to
>support the perceived "oppressor" if that is what they feel compelled to do?
If he has the necessary knowledge then you are right. It should be borne
in mind that we are dealing with an American who likes dressing up,
thinks that the present geography of the world is at fault, wants to
live in the past because he hasn't got the nerve to face the present,
and who is for all to see a little bit eccentric.
People like the Wolf-man should not be encouraged. He is totally
ignorant of Wales and its only importance to him is to add to his
fanciful view of a world long gone.
Wales is a real country. We do not need advice or comment from such
ignorant people.
--
Nigel Evans