The false accusations are merely to divert the world's attention... -- Was Re: Will the Olympic Torch Burn China?
boble...@yahoo.com
>
> China must realize that around the world people are protesting to let
> China know that they cannot ignore the killings in Sudan and Tibet
The false accusations are merely to divert the world's attention to
the true conflicts of the world. Isn't that obvious?
The evidence for the world to see is that Dalai Lama's followers
insitigated the violence against Hans, Hui Muslims and Tibetans as
well. Don't use the double standards that Hans and Hui Muslims are
lesser human beings than the others.
> The Chinese ambassador to Sudan said in response to being accused of
> selling weapons that are being used to murder the Christian population
> in Sudan that if they sold knifes, they should not be responsible on
> how the weapons are being used.
You are using double standards here. Even the mighty western countries
can not keep their weapons from being used against the civilians.
Prove to me that majority of weapons used against civilians in Asia
and Africa are made in China.
> This evil saying of the Chinese government shows that the Chinese are
> showing no compassion and their hands are indirectly involved in the
> killings of the innocents.
The chinese government plays no significant role in the Darfur
conflict:
http://www.democracynow.org/2007/6/4/mahmood_mamdani_on_darfur_the_politics
But at least China has sent troops to Sudan as part of the UN
peacekeeping force. What has your human right queen Mia Farrow and her
Save Darfur Coalition given? Nothing, according to the interview:
Let me tell you, when I went to Sudan in Khartoum, I had interviews
with the UN humanitarian officer, the political officer, etc., and I
asked them, I said, "What assistance does the Save Darfur Coalition
give?" He said, "Nothing." I said, "Nothing?" He said, "No."
> This is evil doing that will consequently bring down the economy of
> China; for the world will effect the boycott of Chinese-made products;
> Therefore, beware evil will bring no good fortune for the Chinese in
> China.
> Hence, the Chinese in China must convince the Chinese government
> cleanse themselves of the blood shedded by murderers.
The whole "boycott" talks are nonsense. An economic war will damage
all sides, and the poor will bear most of the suffer.
ltl...@hotmail.com
> On Apr 9, 2:15 am, pls_expl...@yahoo.com wrote:
>
>
>
> > China must realize that around the world people are protesting to let
> > China know that they cannot ignore the killings in Sudan and Tibet
>
> The false accusations are merely to divert the world's attention to
> the true conflicts of the world. Isn't that obvious?
>
> The evidence for the world to see is that Dalai Lama's followers
> insitigated the violence against Hans, Hui Muslims and Tibetans as
> well. Don't use the double standards that Hans and Hui Muslims are
> lesser human beings than the others.
>
> > The Chinese ambassador to Sudan said in response to being accused of
> > selling weapons that are being used to murder the Christian population
> > in Sudan that if they sold knifes, they should not be responsible on
> > how the weapons are being used.
>
> You are using double standards here. Even the mighty western countries
> can not keep their weapons from being used against the civilians.
> Prove to me that majority of weapons used against civilians in Asia
> and Africa are made in China.
>
> > This evil saying of the Chinese government shows that the Chinese are
> > showing no compassion and their hands are indirectly involved in the
> > killings of the innocents.
>
> The chinese government plays no significant role in the Darfur
> conflict:
>
>
> But at least China has sent troops to Sudan as part of the UN
> peacekeeping force. What has your human right queen Mia Farrow and her
> Save Darfur Coalition given? Nothing, according to the interview:
>
> Let me tell you, when I went to Sudan in Khartoum, I had interviews
> with the UN humanitarian officer, the political officer, etc., and I
> asked them, I said, "What assistance does the Save Darfur Coalition
> give?" He said, "Nothing." I said, "Nothing?" He said, "No."
>
> > This is evil doing that will consequently bring down the economy of
> > China; for the world will effect the boycott of Chinese-made products;
> > Therefore, beware evil will bring no good fortune for the Chinese in
> > China.
> > Hence, the Chinese in China must convince the Chinese government
> > cleanse themselves of the blood shedded by murderers.
>
> The whole "boycott" talks are nonsense. An economic war will damage
> all sides, and the poor will bear most of the suffer.
It is funny if not extremely ironic that many think blocking the
spirit of hte Olympic games traveling from one country to another is a
good thing. In fact, the events demonstrated one thing, many
westerners are willing to sacrifice the bigger good as examplified by
the Olympic for their won petit and ill informed cause.
tbj....@yahoo.com
On the contrary, they are trying to protect the Olympic spirit from
being stained in blood by the brutality of Han colonization of Tibet.
ltl...@hotmail.com
The dice was casted several years ago. The 2008 Olympic games will be
in Beijing this summer. The portestors can all killed themselves
battling the British, French police officers and etc. The 2008 Olympic
games will be in Beijing this summer as sanctioned by all the Olympic
committees of the world. No. The proetestors are not trying to achieve
what they had claimed. Rather, they are just look for opportunity to
do some China bashing. And because China bashing is nowadays
fashionable.
> - Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
tbj....@yahoo.com
Is Tibet bashing ever going to be out of fashion among the Han
chinese? Why is cruelty still in fashion in China under the ccp?
ltl...@hotmail.com
If you have firrst hand knowledge on cruelty toward Tiebtan Chinese by
Han Chinese, this is your forum. I am all ears.
tbj....@yahoo.com
Why have the Han chinese been afraid of letting international
observers into Tibet to collect first hand information for sixty
years? After all, they don't stop people from coming to Hong Kong or
Shanghai. Why stop them from reporting the sentiments of Tibetans by
doing first hand interviews inside Tibet? Why the guided tours and
monitored moves?
http://www.tibet.com/whitepaper/white8.html
Brazen denials about Tibet have not helped the Chinese before and they
will not help to muffle the voice of Tibetans in the future either.
ltl...@hotmail.com
You don't know any cruelty. And you change the object. But your
obession is still your obsession and nothing else.
Well, in America, some restaurants have someone to show you where to
sit. In some other restaurants, you walk in and sit whereever you
want. Some restaurants serve buffets. That is, the customers can
freely walk inside the restaruaant and get their own food. In some
restaurants the customers must oredred the food through the waiters or
watiress. Why the guided seating and monitored food ordering in some
but not the other? Why not?
> http://www.tibet.com/whitepaper/white8.html
>
> Brazen denials about Tibet have not helped the Chinese before and they
> will not help to muffle the voice of Tibetans in the future either.- Hide quoted text -
tbj....@yahoo.com
Do you know first hand the cruelty of the Japanese in Nanjing,
commie?
How in the world does your conscience allow you to side with the Han
genociders in Tibet?
boble...@yahoo.com
>
> - Show quoted text -
I feel sorry for you that you believe in the genocide propaganda:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/22/opinion/22french.html?_r=1&oref=slogin
tbj....@yahoo.com
Let the United Nations into Tibet to make the determination then.
You commies can't have it both ways.
freedomf...@gmail.com
tibet is internal matter, none of UN's business. Beside china is a
veto wielding member, such measure won't pass anyway lol
tbj....@yahoo.com
China was given a veto because of cold war politics. Things that are
given can be taken away.
ltl...@hotmail.com
I know what you mean. But that is different. First of all, no one is
saying the killing is on going. If the killing was 60+ years ago. Then
one has to rely on historical report whether one likes it or not.
>
> How in the world does your conscience allow you to side with the Han
> genociders in Tibet?
The problem lies with the human rights groups and the 'free tibet'
groups. They are not netural. Theiir accusations are not based on
varified accounts.Of course one would say China does not allow
reporters. But still, the accusations are serious. They need to show
that they are treating the accusations with care. However, just like
the western press. They are too happy to demonize and too llazy to
investigate. Bascially, accusations on Chinese violations are assumed
to be true. Their approach convinces me they are in teh business of
holier-than-thou. Rather than helping the Chinese including the
Tibetans.
tbj....@yahoo.com
If a murderer wears a mask and gets away, does that mean the murder
never took place?
>
> > How in the world does your conscience allow you to side with the Han
> > genociders in Tibet?
>
> The problem lies with the human rights groups and the 'free tibet'
> groups. They are not netural. Theiir accusations are not based on
> varified accounts.Of course one would say China does not allow
> reporters. But still, the accusations are serious. They need to show
> that they are treating the accusations with care. However, just like
> the western press. They are too happy to demonize and too llazy to
> investigate. Bascially, accusations on Chinese violations are assumed
> to be true. Their approach convinces me they are in teh business of
> holier-than-thou. Rather than helping the Chinese including the
> Tibetans.
Invasion and colonization of Tibet by the han chinese are facts.
Second class status of Tibetans in Tibet is a fact.
Deaths of thousands of Tibetans are a fact.
What is left for the Tibetans to do other than protest their slavery
under the han?
And you still think that this is a 'holier than thou' attitude? Your
ethnic loyalties blind you to the reality of the Tibetan plight under
the han rule.
ltl...@hotmail.com
I had said it before and I can say it again. Yes. China had policy
mistakes. But the mistakes were not directed to the Tibetans alone.
Concpetually, I also have no problem with the accusation is that
offcials have abused their power. This is bound to happen. China or
elsewhere. However, one also needs to look at things empirically.
Every serious accusation then needs to be substantiated before it can
be accepted as a fact.
>
>
>
> > > - Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
tbj....@yahoo.com
Why does China keep hiding its brutality behind a wall of denials? Is
this a new form of the great wall, only this one is being built with
lies and denials?
Isn't it up to China to substantiate its claims about Tibetans by
opening it up for the world to see?
ltl...@hotmail.com
It is China'r right to control its border.
Raymond
By whom?
tbj....@yahoo.com
There is no such thing as China - it's really the Han empire. And the
Han have never ruled Tibet before. EVER.
Since 1951 every party secretary save one for Tibet has been a han
chinese.
Tibetans can't learn in their own language.
The slow genocide of Tibetan culture:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/03/19/AR2008031903053.html
http://holdfastblog.com/2008/03/20/nyt-on-tibetan-han-relations/
Yu
China has always been a multicultural multiethnic country.
Hans forms 92% of the population, but that's only statistics.
There was lots of intermarriages throughout history.
> Since 1951 every party secretary save one for Tibet has been a han
> chinese.
Party secretary for any province in China always come from another
province.
This is to prevent politicians from becoming too entrenched and become
warlord.
Naturally party secretary of Tibet tend to come from other provinces.
> Tibetans can't learn in their own language.
All children Hans or Tibetans have to study Tibetan language in Tibet.
It's a compulsory subject.
Does Children in New Mexico learn Navajos?
> The slow genocide of Tibetan culture:http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/03/19/AR200...
>
> http://holdfastblog.com/2008/03/20/nyt-on-tibetan-han-relations/
tbj....@yahoo.com
What kind of asinine reasoning is this?
You could invade Koreas and make the same claim tomorrow. Or Mongolia.
Or Japan. Or Burma.
It was the Manchus and the Mongols who developed relations with Tibet.
Never the han chinese until Mao invaded Tibet.
tbj....@yahoo.com
Chinese assault on Tibetan language
http://www.phayul.com/news/article.aspx?article=Report+reveals+determined+Chinese+assault+on+Tibetan+language&id=19313
http://www.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idUSPEK31852420080220
http://www.asianews.it/index.php?l=en&art=11595
Yu
We all came from Africa. Unless u believe God gave you a promissed
land where did all the nations came about.
After WW2 most of the national boundary became settled and we have the
UN. Unless 1.3 billion people agree that China should break up Tibet
will be a part of China.
> It was the Manchus and the Mongols who developed relations with Tibet.
> Never the han chinese until Mao invaded Tibet.
U r refering to the Yuan and Qing Dynasty.
The Qing dynasty was a good example of China's multi-ethnic,
multicultural Dynasty.
The emperor was descended from the Man zhu (Manchus)
His court officials included Hans, Mongols, Hui as well as Man Zhu.
Han language was the most extensively language in Official documents.
3/4 of the Canibet were Hans. It reflected the ethnic composition.
There were many Han general.
The Royal family of England decended from the French.
The Russian Czars had English blood.
It is absurd to say that "there is no such thing as China".
Yu
>
> http://www.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idUSPEK31852420080220
>
> http://www.asianews.it/index.php?l=en&art=11595> The slow genocide of Tibetan culture:http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/03/19/AR200...
The origin of all these news can usually be traced to one of the about
half dozen NED funded organizations.
Western news agency happily get their news from these questionable
NGOs.
In fact, it is the Dalai Lama's 2nd and 3rd generation followers that
speak more English and Tibetan.
>
> > >http://holdfastblog.com/2008/03/20/nyt-on-tibetan-han-relations/
Yu
> > > Han have never ruled Tibet before. EVER.
> > China has always been a multicultural multiethnic country.
> > Hans forms 92% of the population, but that's only statistics.
> > There was lots of intermarriages throughout history.
> What kind of asinine reasoning is this?
> You could invade Koreas and make the same claim tomorrow. Or Mongolia.
> Or Japan. Or Burma.
We all came from Africa. Unless u believe God gave you a promissed
land where did all the nations came about. There were wars.
After WW2 most of the national boundary became settled and we have
the
UN to settle international disputes. Unless 1.3 billion people agree
that China should break up Tibet
will be a part of China and UN willnot recognize Tibet as a nation.
> It was the Manchus and the Mongols who developed relations with Tibet.
> Never the han chinese until Mao invaded Tibet.
U r refering to the Yuan and Qing Dynasty.
The Qing dynasty was a good example of China's multi-ethnic,
multicultural Dynasty.
The emperor was descended from the Man zhu (Manchus)
His court officials included Hans, Mongols, Hui as well as Man Zhu.
Han language was the most extensively language in Official documents.
3/4 of the Canibet were Hans. It reflected the ethnic composition.
There were many Han generals in the Qing military.
The Royal family of England decended from the French.
The Russian Czars had English blood. DNA did not decide the existance
of any nation.
It is absurd to say that "there is no such thing as China".
Yu
> > All children Hans or Tibetans have to study Tibetan language in Tibet.
> > It's a compulsory subject.
> > Does Children in New Mexico learn Navajos?
> Chinese assault on Tibetan languagehttp://www.phayul.com/news/article.aspx?article=Report+reveals+determ...
> http://www.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idUSPEK31852420080220
> http://www.asianews.it/index.php?l=en&art=11595> The slow genocide of Tibetan culture:http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/03/19/AR200...
tbj....@yahoo.com
How ironic that while you claim the legacy of old empires, you deny
the legacy of nationhood to the Tibetans.
[quote]
Mao Zedong himself, when he passed through the border regions of Tibet
during the Long March and was given food and shelter by local
Tibetans, remarked, "This is our only foreign debt, and some day we
must pay the Mantzu (sic) and the Tibetans for the provisions we were
obliged to take from them." [Red Star over China, Edgar Snow, New
York, 1961, p.214]
Tibetan ruler Trisong Detsen (reign: 755-797) expanded the Tibetan
empire by conquering parts of China. In 763, China's capital Chang'an
(modern day Xian) was invaded and China had to pay an annual tribute
to Tibet. In 783, a treaty was concluded which laid down the borders
between Tibet and China. A pillar inscription at the foot of the
Potala Palace in Lhasa bears witness to some of these conquests.
The peace treaty concluded between Tibet and China in 821, is of
particular importance in illustrating the nature of relations between
these two great powers of Asia. The text of this treaty, both in
Tibetan and Chinese, was inscribed on three stone pillars: one was
erected in Gungu Meru to demarcate the borders between the two
nations, second in Lhasa where it still stands, and the third in the
Chinese capital of Chang'an. .
. the following principal passage of that treaty:
Tibet and China shall abide by the frontiers of which they are now
in occupation. All to the east is the country of great China; and all
to the west is, without question, the country of great Tibet.
Henceforth, on neither side shall there be waging of war nor seizing
of territory.
[end quote]
http://www.tibet.com/whitepaper/white1.html
Yu
Most political boundaries that we see today were based on 1945 when
WW2 came to an end. Goverments changed but boundaries remained.
There are new national boundaries in few cases, but they have to be
mutuall;y agreed upon and approve by the UN
> [quote]
> Mao Zedong himself, when he passed through the border regions of Tibet
> during the Long March and was given food and shelter by local
> Tibetans, remarked, "This is our only foreign debt, and some day we
> must pay the Mantzu (sic) and the Tibetans for the provisions we were
> obliged to take from them." [Red Star over China, Edgar Snow, New
> York, 1961, p.214]
That was translation. Mao definitely believed Tibet is a part of
China.
I can quote Mao's other speech in which he believe Tibet is a part of
China.
> Tibetan ruler Trisong Detsen (reign: 755-797) expanded the Tibetan
> empire by conquering parts of China. In 763, China's capital Chang'an
> (modern day Xian) was invaded and China had to pay an annual tribute
> to Tibet. In 783, a treaty was concluded which laid down the borders
> between Tibet and China. A pillar inscription at the foot of the
> Potala Palace in Lhasa bears witness to some of these conquests.
That was Tang Dynasty 1400 years ago.
At that time Tibet and China were two separate countries.
You can claim Africa if u want.
As I ve said before, most boundaries were base on 1945 boundaries and
has to be recognized by the UN.
> The peace treaty concluded between Tibet and China in 821, is of
> particular importance in illustrating the nature of relations between
> these two great powers of Asia.
This is irrelevant.
>
The text of this treaty, both in
> Tibetan and Chinese, was inscribed on three stone pillars: one was
> erected in Gungu Meru to demarcate the borders between the two
> nations, second in Lhasa where it still stands, and the third in the
> Chinese capital of Chang'an. .
> . the following principal passage of that treaty:
>
> Tibet and China shall abide by the frontiers of which they are now
> in occupation. All to the east is the country of great China; and all
> to the west is, without question, the country of great Tibet.
> Henceforth, on neither side shall there be waging of war nor seizing
> of territory.
Your translation is all wrong.
The following translation from the Tibetan inscription on a stone
pillar in front of the Jokhang is from Bell. (Bell is British)
---------------------------------------------------------
The Sovereign of Tibet, the Divine King of Miracles, and the
great King of China, Hwang Te, the Nephew and the Maternal
Uncle, have agreed to unite their kingdoms...
Tibet and China shall guard the land and frontier, of which they
have hitherto held possession. All to the east of the frontier
is the country of Great China. All to the west is certainly
the country of Great Tibet.
Henceforth there shall be no fighting as between enemies, and
neither side will carry war into the other's country. Should
there be any suspected person, he can be arrested, questioned,
and sent back. Thus the great Agreement has been made for
uniting the kingdoms, and the Nephew and Uncle have become
happy. In gratitude for this happiness it is necessary that
travellers with good messages should go backwards and forwards.
The messengers from both sides will also travel by the old road
as before. According to the former custom ponies shall be
exchanged at Chang-kun-yok, on the frontier between Tibet and
China. At Che-shung-shek Chinese territory is met; below this
China will show respect. At Tsen-she-hwan Tibetan territory is
met; above this Tibet will show respect.
The Nephew and Uncle, having become intimate, will respect each
other according to custom...
This Agreement, that the Tibetans shall be happy in Tibet and the
Chinese happy in China and the great kingdoms united, shall
never be changed.
The Three Precious Ones, the Exalted Ones, the Sun and Moon, the
Planets and Stars have been invoked to bear witness. Solemn
words were also uttered. Animals were sacrificed and oaths
taken, and the Agreement was made.
====================================
Please note that according to the agreement "the great kingdoms
united, shall
never be changed".
.
tbj....@yahoo.com
Oh this is really pathetic of you.
You dismiss the Mao quote as a translation and then give some unheard
of Bell as an authority on the pillar's translation. You guys are too
brainwashed to think straight. You would sooner kill all the Tibetans
on ccp's order than come to grips with reality.
Stop believing the ccp, and the world will make a whole lot of more
sense.
Jim Walsh
> We all came from Africa.
I agree.
--
Love, Jim
(P.S. I routinely delete excessive newsgroups when I follow-up.)
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Yu
Lol.
Anybody who disagrees with u have to "brainwash".
You need to get educated first.
Charles Bell wrote the translation about a century ago.
At that time there was no CCP to bash.
BTW, Bell was an English imperialist pig who tried to take Tibet from
China after they took over Nepal, Bhutan and Sikkim. After the the
decline of the British Empire the CIA took over.
tbj....@yahoo.com
My point was that only a brainwashed fool would read the inscription
and still believe in the 'Tibet belongs to China' bullshit.
The only people who tried 'taking Tibet from China' were the Tibetans.
That Pillar speaks of their victory once. And they hope to be
victorious against the imperial chinese again to regain their freedom.
Yu
If I remember correctly, you are the one who brought up the stone
inscription with the not so brilliant translation.
> The only people who tried 'taking Tibet from China' were the Tibetans.
> That Pillar speaks of their victory once. And they hope to be
> victorious against the imperial chinese again to regain their freedom.- Hide quoted text -
>
U ve a lot of home work to do.
tbj....@yahoo.com
Brainwashed fool, not everything that you find against you is 'wrong'.
Tibetan interpreters' version is far more believable than that of a
real or imagined british translator. But even in your fanciful
translation of 'Bell', it speaks of Tibetans and Chinese living
SEPARATELY in their own kingdoms.
> > The only people who tried 'taking Tibet from China' were the Tibetans.
> > That Pillar speaks of their victory once. And they hope to be
> > victorious against the imperial chinese again to regain their freedom.- Hide quoted text -
>
> U ve a lot of home work to do.
It is you who needs to wake up from the communist bullshit trance.
Yaya
Dalai Lama is just a pupet of US, Tibet is just an excuse for US to
blow biggest issue. Even the Peaceful Symbol of Olympic spirit has
been made used of by the West's so called human Right group to tarnish
the CHinese image.
The West has just created a deepest rift, the clash of civilisation
between the East and the West. The sabotage of Olympic torch has
created deepest hatreds against the West among young Chinese
generation, more so than what Chairman Mao has wanted it to be, as he
knows the West will always humiliate China by all possible ways and
prevent China from going powerful.
Yaya
Yu
That was 1200 years ago. Nobody has calim that Tibet was part of China
at that time. You brought up and made a fool of yourself.
> > > The only people who tried 'taking Tibet from China' were the Tibetans.
> > > That Pillar speaks of their victory once. And they hope to be
> > > victorious against the imperial chinese again to regain their freedom.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > U ve a lot of home work to do.
>
> It is you who needs to wake up from the communist bullshit trance.- Hide quoted text -
tbj....@yahoo.com
Tibet was independent for 40 years before the communist han chinese
invaded and colonized it.
Tibet has resisted the occupation ever since.
You are the fool for blindly repeating the ccp propaganda.
Yu
China was fighting a civil war from 1911-1950. The central Gov changed
hand several times.
The country was much like Afghanistan today ruled by a loose coalition
of warlords.
The Dalai Lama 13th was one of these warlords. The British tried to
grab Tibet by making used of Dalai Lama 13th.
In 1924 British instigated a coup of the local Tibet militia. That
would ve turned Dalai Lama 13th into a British puppet.
The coup failed and the British was expelled from Tibet. When the new
republic Gov was formed in Nanjing in 1929
both the Lamai Lama 13th and the Panchen Lama 8th sent their
representative to draft a new national Constitution.
The 13th Dalai passed away in 1933 and Living Buddha Reting become
head of the Tibet Local Gov. Reting was a member of KMT(ruling party
of China) and was a stunch supporter of China unification. China then
was facing the Japanese invasion. The British took the oppotunity to
spread rumor in Tibet that Reting was bad for the health of the young
Dalai Lama. Reting was removed and subsequently murdered at the
instigation of the British in 1947.
For a number of years before 1950 the British was pulling the strings
in Tibet until the PLA flushed them out.
tbj....@yahoo.com
Mao himself called the Tibetans and the Manchus 'foreigners'.
> The Dalai Lama 13th was one of these warlords. The British tried to
Mao was the warlord. The Dalai didn't even have a proper army to
protect his country. How long do you intend to keep up the delusions
fed to you by the ccp?
> grab Tibet by making used of Dalai Lama 13th.
> In 1924 British instigated a coup of the local Tibet militia. That
> would ve turned Dalai Lama 13th into a British puppet.
> The coup failed and the British was expelled from Tibet. When the new
> republic Gov was formed in Nanjing in 1929
> both the Lamai Lama 13th and the Panchen Lama 8th sent their
> representative to draft a new national Constitution.
A new empire was formed in 1929, not a republic. Another one was
formed in 1949. Look up the meaning of the word republic.
The chinese methods of subjugation of Tibet are not new at all. They
have happened many times over and over in history, and yet Tibet would
claim independence again and again when it could.
China makes a lot of noise about the 14th Dalai Lama being a
'splittist', but so was the 13th Lama and many Lamas before him.
Tibet, Nepal, and Ceylon 1800-1950
by Sanderson Beck
[quote]
In 1905 China tried to exert more control over eastern Tibet. In Kham
they reduced the number of monks and forbade recruiting monks for the
next twenty years. Zhao Erfeng returned with Chinese troops to
investigate the incident at Bah in Tibet; they killed four monks and
fined the monastery. When other monks in the area protested, he had
1,210 monks and laymen killed. In 1906 Zhao executed more monks at
Gongkar Namling and Yangdeng as others fled. Tibetans called him "Zhao
the Butcher," and in 1907 his troops stole thousands of loads of grain
in southern Kham. The Chinese opened a school at Lhasa and a military
college in 1908. That year Zhao was reinforced with troops from
Sichuan and decided to march on Lhasa. The Regent Gandan Tri Rimpoche
and the Kashag wrote a letter complaining about Zhao Erfeng's
atrocities, but the Chinese Amban in Lhasa refused to forward it to
the Manchu emperor. So the Kashag sent an envoy to Calcutta to
telegraph Beijing. The Chinese garrison at Lhasa was reinforced with
6,000 troops, and Zhongyin was appointed commander-in-chief of all
troops in Tibet. The last Qing emperor was so weak that provincial
governors were making their own decisions. In 1909 Tibetans learned
that a large Chinese force was coming to enforce the Trade Regulations
signed at Calcutta in 1908. The Kashag demanded that the Amban
withdraw the Chinese troops from Tibet, but he brought the force even
sooner.
The Dalai Lama returned to Lhasa in December 1909. He wrote to the
British asking them to intervene so that Chinese troops would
withdraw. He received a new seal, minted new silver coins, and
established a foreign bureau. In March 1910 a Chinese army of 2,000
men led by Zhongyin marched into Lhasa and fired on the police and the
Jokhang temple, arresting the head of the Foreign Bureau. The Dalai
Lama appointed a new regent and fled west with his chief ministers.
The next day the Amban sent three hundred cavalry after them, but they
were defended by a rear-guard action. From the Samding monastery the
Dalai Lama sent a message asking the British Trade Agent at Gyantse
for asylum in India. He reached Yatung and stayed with David
Macdonald, who knew Tibetan. The Dalai Lama went on to Darjeeling, and
on March 14, 1910 he met with Viceroy Minto in Calcutta. He explained
that Dorjiev only gave him spiritual advice. The Dalai Lama wrote to
the Panchen Lama, asking him to join him in India, but he refused.
In Lhasa the Chinese replaced the Tibetan police and confiscated the
property of the Dalai Lama. Tibetans refused to cooperate with the
Chinese and attacked them in eastern and southern Tibet. The Chinese
sent Lo Ditai to Darjeeling to ask the Dalai Lama to return to his
restored titles in Tibet. In September the Dalai Lama replied in a
long letter that he had restrained his people from taking revenge and
that he hoped to negotiate with China with the British government
acting as an intermediary. In Lhasa the Panchen Lama was resented for
being friendly with the Amban. When the Amban executed a leader of a
secret society of revolutionaries (Golaohui) in the Chinese army,
feuds broke out. Four Chinese officers deserted and joined the Sera
monastery.
When news of Sun Yatsen's October 1911 revolution arrived, the
Golaohui mutinied. The Amban fled, was taken hostage, and was released
by Zhongyin. Zhao Erfeng returned to Sichuan, where he was executed
the following year. News that the Dalai Lama was returning inspired
more Tibetan revolts against the Chinese. He sent young officials who
helped drive the Chinese out of Shigatse and Gyantse. Many Chinese
soldiers sold their guns and ammunition to Tibetan merchants. Chinese
forces were unable to take the Sera monastery. Chinese troops were
isolated in southern Lhasa and fought Tibetans in the northern zone as
a year of fighting devastated a third of Lhasa. Tibetans returning
from Darjeeling captured Chinese outposts along the border. The
Tsongdu (National Assembly) met and began arresting Tibetan officials
who had collaborated with the Chinese.
In June 1912 the Dalai Lama was escorted back to Tibet. In Beijing the
British minister John Jordan met with the new president, Yuan Shikai,
and protested the Chinese occupation of Tibet. President Yuan declared
that Tibet would be treated as a province in the Chinese republic, and
he restored the Dalai Lama's rank. The Dalai Lama replied that he
wanted no rank from the Chinese and that he had resumed leadership of
the government. Lacking supplies, the Chinese at Lhasa offered to
surrender in August, and the Tibetans agreed they could return to
China by way of India. One group left, but two others found refuge at
the Tengyeling monastery and fought from there. They were starved into
surrendering again and left for India in January 1913. That month
Tibet and Mongolia signed a treaty declaring themselves separate from
China; the Dalai Lama and Jetsun Dampa Hutuktu recognized each other's
independence.
The 13th Dalai Lama returned to Lhasa amid great celebration and
issued a proclamation declaring that Buddhist institutions would be
preserved in an independent Tibet. He forbade the amputation of limbs
as punishment and allowed vacant lands to be cultivated free of taxes
for three years. The Tengyeling monastery was disendowed; traitors
were banished, and the rest of the monks were distributed to other
monasteries. Those who collaborated with the Chinese were punished,
but long-time Chinese residents were allowed to stay in Tibet. The
Dalai Lama introduced paper currency and postage stamps and later
minted gold and silver coins. Four Tibetan boys were sent to England
to study at Rugby. Khenrab Kunzang Mondrong studied mining engineering
but became the Dalai Lama's personal interpreter and the
superintendent of the Lhasa police. Rigzin Dorje Ringang oversaw the
electrification of Lhasa, and Wangdu Norbu Kyibuk implemented a
telegraph network. Tsepa Lungshar went to England with them and became
Finance Secretary and head of the military. Yasujiro Yajima trained
Tibetans in Japanese methods of warfare for six years. Tibetans were
still driving Chinese soldiers out of eastern Tibet.
The Chinese did not want to negotiate with Tibet as equals, but
eventually they sent Ivan Chen to Simla for talks with Shatra Paljor
Dorje and Henry McMahon. The Tibetans wanted internal and external
sovereignty without any Chinese soldiers in Tibet and the eastern
border up to Dajianlu. They demanded that the conventions signed
without their consent at Beijing in 1906 and at Calcutta in 1908 be
declared invalid. They brought 56 volumes of documents to back up
their claims. The Chinese claimed Tibet from the conquest by Genghis
Khan and the protection given by the Manchu emperor Kangxi (r.
1677-1722). They had paid Tibet's indemnity to the British in 1904 and
sent troops to Lhasa to regulate the Trade Agreement of 1908. They
wanted the border at Gyamda near Lhasa. In February 1914 McMahon
proposed Chinese suzerainty over Tibet with troops in Inner Tibet but
not in Outer Tibet. The Chinese would be allowed one official in Lhasa
with not more than 300 guards. Tibet was not to be a Chinese province,
and the previous conventions no longer applied. The three negotiators
initialed this agreement, but the Chinese government ordered Chen not
to sign the treaty. The British gave them to the end of June and then
signed the Simla agreement with Tibet on July 3, 1914. The McMahon
line became the border between Tibet and India, and the British and
Tibetans also signed new Trade Regulations.
On August 4, 1914 the Dalai Lama offered the British a thousand troops
for the war and kept them in readiness until the end of the conflict.
The British sold Tibet 5,000 old Lee-Metford rifles and 500,000 rounds
of ammunition and had to send reassurances to Nepal. The Dalai Lama
turned the Tengyeling monastery into a school for medicine and
astrology. The Government paid the expenses of students and gave the
poor free medicine. The Dalai Lama sent troops to Gyantse to learn
British military methods, and after comparing them to Russian and
Japanese trained regiments, the British model was chosen. In 1916 the
British imposed an embargo on arms from India or Japan to Tibet.
In 1917 council minister (kalon) Chamba Tendar was sent to govern Kham
with eight generals and a large staff. They recaptured much territory
and converged on Chamdo, which held out for several months before
surrendering. Tibetans escorted the Chinese prisoners to the Indian
border to remove them from the region. General Peng Risheng had
destroyed three major monasteries; but he refused to return to China
and was allowed to settle in Tibet. As Tibetan troops approached
Dajianlu, British consul Eric Teichman negotiated a tripartite
agreement that was signed on August 19, 1918 by him, General Liu
Zanding, and Chamba Tendar. The upper Yangzi River became the main
border, but the Tibetans retained all the monasteries in the territory
given to China. After the war the British resumed selling arms to
Tibet on the guarantee that they would be used only for defense. A
telegraph line connected Gyantse and Lhasa.
In 1921 documents from the Tengyeling monastery showed that three
monks had helped the Chinese. When they were imprisoned at Lhasa,
Loseling college monks demonstrated. The military was used to arrest
sixty monks and punish them. After this incident Charles Bell
persuaded the British to sell Tibet 10,000 rifles, 20 Lewis machine-
guns, and 10 mountain guns. In 1922 Gyalpo, who had married a Nepalese
girl, was to be arrested for selling liquor and tobacco, but he took
refuge in the house of the Nepalese resident. Lungshar had the police
break in and arrest him. This incident might have escalated into war
with Nepal, but the British intervened to resolve the issue. The
arrogant Lungshar fell out of favor. British trade agents at Gyantse
built a road for three motor cars; but local people using animals
objected, and the project was abandoned. Tibet bought from England
machinery for a hydro-electric plant. Taxes on estates had to be
raised to pay for a standing army.
The Tashihunpo monasteries owned large estates in Tibet, and the
Panchen Lama fled to China in 1923. He reached Beijing in February
1925 and was welcomed by the Guomindang Nationalist party. The Dalai
Lama asked for an English school at Gyantse in 1926, and it was
supervised by Frank Ludlow; but after three years monks got it closed
down as harmful to religion. The Darjeeling police chief Sonam Laden
La was Tibetan, and he came to Lhasa to train police. When the Tsongdu
was discussing taxing the estates of ministers and generals, Tsarong
and other young generals interrupted the meeting to demand military
representation. Lungshar urged monks to make a big issue of the
disturbance. The Dalai Lama intervened and dismissed two generals and
one minister. Tsarong was sent on a trip and relieved of his commander-
in-chief position. Lungshar was fined 27 gold coins for creating
problems. To keep the military from becoming too strong, the Dalai
Lama demoted many officers. A Poyul ruler refused to pay taxes, but
eventually he was forced to flee to Assam. A few pro-Soviet Mongols
came to Tibet, but they gained nothing but an audience with the Dalai
Lama and left. In 1927 Chiang Kai-shek wrote the Dalai Lama, who
declined to be part of China. The British did not allow Tibet to
impose a five-percent customs tariff at the Indo-Tibetan border until
1929. Lungshar increased the Tibetan army by 2,200 men and increased
pay for soldiers and police.
The Dalai Lama prohibited dismissing old servants or sending away aged
parents. The interest that money-lenders could charge was limited.
Physicians were sent out to districts, and women in childbirth and
sick animals were treated without charge. Tobacco, opium, and liquor
were prohibited in Tibet, and gambling was illegal. The Dalai Lama
discouraged women from buying jewelry and expensive clothes because
wives of poor officers were going into debt.
In 1931 the Beri and Dargyas monasteries east of the Yangzi River
began fighting. When the Sichuan governor Liu Wenhui sent troops to
assist Beri, Tibetan troops from Derge defended Dargyas and drove the
Chinese out of Beri. The Tibetans would have gained territory by a
cease-fire but refused. Liu Wenhui counter-attacked and drove the
Tibetans back. Meanwhile the Muslim warlord Ma Bufang was also
fighting in a dispute between monasteries, and Tibetans intervened;
but they were defeated by the Chinese at Dan Chokhorgon and retreated.
The 13th Dalai Lama asked Col. Weir to telegraph Nanjing for a
diplomatic solution, but Chiang Kai-shek could not control Liu Wenhui.
After the latter got into a civil war against his nephew Liu Xiang in
Sichuan, he agreed to a cease-fire. A treaty was signed on June 15,
1933, and the previous border was restored. In his last years the
Dalai Lama warned that Communism would come to Tibet if they did not
take precautions. He died on December 17, 1933.
Tibet 1934-50
The young and inexperienced Silon Langdun, the Dalai Lama's nephew,
was prime minister, but Lungshan quickly proclaimed Tibet a republic
under the Tsongdu (National Assembly) where he was the leader. He
assumed the rank of Tsepson and took control of the military, taking
power away from Kunphela by persuading the middle-class sons who had
been forced into the military to disband their Drong Drak Makhar
regiment. The next day Kunphela and two personal attendants of the
Dalai Lama were banished by the Tsongdu for failing to report the
Dalai Lama's illness adequately. After four months under Lungshan,
Minister Trimon Norbu Wangyal learned that Lungshan was going to
assassinate him; he informed Regent Rating and found asylum in the
Drepung monastery. The Kashag (Council of Ministers) then arrested
Lungshan. After an inquiry he was blinded and imprisoned for life. The
testament of the 13th Dalai Lama was used as a guide for governing.
General Huang Musong was allowed to lead a mission to Lhasa in April
1934 as a religious tribute to the late Dalai Lama. He proposed that
Tibet become part of China, but the Tibetan Government declined and
demanded the return of eastern territories. The Chinese had a wireless
radio and used money to bribe Regent Rating and other officials. Basil
Gould, the political officer in Sikkim, visited Lhasa from time to
time and left historian Hugh Richardson there with a radio operator.
In 1934 the Chinese Communists made their long march to the northwest,
but Tibetan troops made them move on from Horkhog, Bah, Lithang,
Nyarong, and Derge. In 1935 Tibetan envoys objected to a proposed
escort of five hundred Chinese soldiers for the Panchen Lama's return
to Tibet, and the British supported their position. The Panchen Lama
returned to Jyekundo but died there in December 1937. The Japanese
invasion of China reduced the Chinese military threat to Tibet. In
1938 Silon Langdun agreed to be only a nominal prime minister.
The search for the next Dalai Lama found three candidates, and 400,000
Chinese dollars were paid for the boy found in the Kokonor region. He
was named Tenzin Gyatso and was enthroned as the 14th Dalai Lama on
February 22, 1940. Regent Rating, who was criticized for not being
celibate as well as for taking money from the Chinese, retired to a
life of prayer and meditation, and the conservative lama Taktra
Rimpoche became regent in 1941.
In World War II the Tibetans decided to remain neutral and prayed for
peace. Jiang Jieshi (Chiang Kai-shek) wanted to build a road across
the southeast corner of Tibet to Assam. The British offered to help
their ally, but Tibet sent troops to stop the project. In 1942 some
Chinese invaded Tibetan territory from Jinghai. The Regent and the
Kashag over-ruled the Tsongdu and decided to allow non-military
supplies to pass through Tibet. In April 1943 Jiang ordered Chinese
troops from Jinghai, Yunnan, and Sigang sent to the border. In
November the British sold Tibet five million rounds of rifle
ammunition and a thousand shells for their mountain guns but no
machine-gun bullets. Over the years Tibetans borrowed money to buy
grain, and in 1944 many stopped paying the interest arrears. A
district officer defended their refusal and was beaten to death by
collectors of the Sera Che and Ngaga colleges. The monks refused to
turn over the killers, and the Government had to use force to arrest
them.
In 1942 the United States Office of Strategic Services (OSS) sent
Captain Ilia Tolstoy and Lt. Brooke Dolan to Tibet with a letter from
President Roosevelt and gifts that later included wireless
transmitters. The young Dalai Lama wrote back that the Tibetans also
valued freedom of thought, religion, and action and that they were
praying for a termination of hostilities. When a US military plane
crashed in Tibet in 1944, the Tibetans helped the crew make it to the
Indian border. That summer Jiang's advisor Shen Zonglian went to Lhasa
to negotiate and was met there by Basil Gould. Shen persuaded the
Tibetans to send an official delegation to China, and Hugh Richardson
of the British mission warned them not to act as delegates to the
Chinese National Assembly. The Assembly was postponed, and the
Tibetans were kept in China for several months. Finally they were
instructed to demand the return of Tibetan territory and return home.
They made a public demonstration of not signing the resolutions of the
Chinese National Assembly.
A second attempt at an English school in Lhasa was started in 1945;
but once again monks complained that it endangered their religion, and
it was closed. So the Government sent students to India with
scholarships. Two German prisoners of war escaped from India and were
given refuge in neutral Tibet, where they spent seven years and helped
build a canal. In April 1945 Jiang sent Tibet arms and ammunition as a
gift, saying he would continue to supply them with weapons free of
cost.
In March 1947 Tibetan representatives attended the Asian Relations
Conference in India under the Tibetan flag. A hand grenade in a
package sent to Regent Taktra Rimpoche exploded. On April 14 and 15
the ex-regent Rating and some of his officials were arrested. The next
day the suspected maker of the bomb committed suicide, and monks from
the Che College of the Sera monastery, who supported Regent Rimpoche,
murdered their abbot after his attempt to restrain their rebellious
talk and military preparations. On April 20 the Tibetan army fired
rounds from mountain guns against the Che College, and the monks fired
back with rifles. Rating denied the charges he was trying to return to
power, but flogging persuaded Kartho Rimpoche to reveal the conspiracy
that was confirmed by Rating's secretary. Rating had written a letter
to Jiang about Regent Takra's unjust rule and asked the Chinese to
drop leaflets from airplanes, but they declined to do so. The Tibetan
army attacked the Che College again on April 27 and took it over,
killing about two hundred monks while 15 soldiers died. The ex-regent
Rating was murdered in prison on May 8. Two of his secretaries and
about thirty monks were punished by imprisonment. Ten candidates to be
the next Panchen Lama had been gathered by the Chinese, who broke
Tibetan tradition by selecting the next Panchen Lama in 1944. The
Government of Tibet did not recognize their selection.
On August 15, 1947 the new government of India took over the treaty
obligations the British had made with Tibet and replaced their
missions. Tibet asked for the return of territories from Assam to
Ladakh. When China invited Tibetan delegates to the National Assembly
in 1949, Tibet sent a trade mission with official passports to India,
the United Kingdom, and the United States as well as to China. In July
1949 the Tibetan Government asked Chinese officials to leave Lhasa and
Chinese traders to leave Tibet, and they were politely escorted out of
Lhasa with musical honors. Radio reporter Lowell Thomas was allowed to
visit Tibet and provided publicity.
Tibet affirmed its independence and tried to make military
preparations to meet the threat of the Chinese Communists. India's
Prime Minister Nehru referred to Chinese suzerainty over Tibet, but
the Tibetans reminded him that the Simla agreement insisted that Tibet
remain autonomous. The Indian Government recognized Communist China in
January 1950. In the spring Ma Bufang was driven out of Jinghai by
the Communists and asked permission to withdraw through Tibet. The
Tibetan government sent ambassadors to India, Nepal, the United
Kingdom, and the United States to ask for help. On August 15 a major
earthquake devastated eastern Tibet, killing many. On October 7,
Chinese troops invaded eastern Tibet using Khampa irregulars. The
Tibetans were quickly overwhelmed, and many surrendered. At the same
time a small Chinese force crossed into northwest Tibet that had not
been invaded since 1716. On October 25 Communist China proclaimed that
they were liberating three million Tibetans from imperialist
oppression and consolidating the western borders of China. The next
day India sent a protest and warned China that this could block their
admission into the United Nations. Beijing replied that Tibet is part
of China and that no foreign intervention was required.
On November 11, 1950 the government of Tibet appealed to the United
Nations for help against Chinese aggression. Six days later the
Tsongdu recognized the Dalai Lama as the ruler, and Regent Taktra
resigned. El Salvador moved that the United Nations condemn China's
invasion; but when India suggested that the issue could be settled
peacefully without the United Nations, the United Kingdom and the
United States went along with that. Yet a few days later in New Delhi
the Indian Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Home Affairs, Sardar
Vallabhai Patel, said,
To use the sword against
the traditionally peace-loving Tibetan people was unjustified.
No other country in the world is as peace-loving as Tibet.
The Chinese government did not follow India's advice
to settle the Tibetan issue peacefully.1
On December 11 Tibet sent a telegram asking the United Nations for a
fact-finding commission, but they received no answer. The sixteen-year-
old Dalai Lama and some leading officials left Lhasa for the Chumbi
Valley.
[end quote]
Yu
If u cut and paste bits and pieces of Mao's speeches over the years,
you can come out with almost anything you want to hear. In that
process you ve left out other more important aspect of history that
you don't want people to know about.
This is not the way to understand history.
> > The Dalai Lama 13th was one of these warlords. The British tried to
>
> Mao was the warlord. The Dalai didn't even have a proper army to
> protect his country. How long do you intend to keep up the delusions
> fed to you by the ccp?
You want to call Mao a Warlord, fine, I won't argue with u for now.
Dalai Lama 13th was definitely a warlord.
His militia was armed and trained by the British.
The quote you ve posted below confirmed what I said.
> > grab Tibet by making used of Dalai Lama 13th.
> > In 1924 British instigated a coup of the local Tibet militia. That
> > would ve turned Dalai Lama 13th into a British puppet.
> > The coup failed and the British was expelled from Tibet. When the new
> > republic Gov was formed in Nanjing in 1929
> > both the Lamai Lama 13th and the Panchen Lama 8th sent their
> > representative to draft a new national Constitution.
>
> A new empire was formed in 1929, not a republic. Another one was
> formed in 1949. Look up the meaning of the word republic.
>
> The chinese methods of subjugation of Tibet are not new at all. They
> have happened many times over and over in history, and yet Tibet would
> claim independence again and again when it could.
There were some fractions in Tibet supported by the British that
wanted "independence" which in reality meant becoming a part of the
British Empire like India, Nepal and Bhutan. It's foolish to think
that Tibet would be treated differently from Nepal, Bhutan or India
once it broke off from China.
> China makes a lot of noise about the 14th Dalai Lama being a
> 'splittist', but so was the 13th Lama and many Lamas before him.
From 1911 - 1923 he worked for the British to split Tibet from China.
China was in the middle of a civil war then.
In 1923, his British trained officers in his Tibetan militia, tried to
get rid of him and he realized that he would be better off remaining a
part of China.
So, DL13th was half a splittist.
The Panchen Lama and Regent Reting were all along oppose to any
splittist move.
Between 1911 and 1950 there were opposing forces at work in Tibet with
the pro-British separatists and the Pro- China forces fighting for
control.
Even the history u quoted showed that China was in control of Tibet 40
years before the arrival of PLA in 1950.
The British was trying to grab more land from China when the new
Republic of China was weak and bankrupt. Even Yuan Shi Kai, during the
darkest day of modern Chinese history, refused to give in to British
demand
> The Dalai Lama replied that he
> wanted no rank from the Chinese and that he had resumed leadership of
> the government. Lacking supplies, the Chinese at Lhasa offered to
> surrender in August, and the Tibetans agreed they could return to
> China by way of India. One group left, but two others found refuge at
> the Tengyeling monastery and fought from there. They were starved into
> surrendering again and left for India in January 1913. That month
> Tibet and Mongolia signed a treaty declaring themselves separate from
> China; the Dalai Lama and Jetsun Dampa Hutuktu recognized each other's
> independence.
> The 13th Dalai Lama returned to Lhasa amid great celebration and
> issued a proclamation declaring that Buddhist institutions would be
> preserved in an independent Tibet. He forbade the amputation of limbs
> as punishment and allowed vacant lands to be cultivated free of taxes
> for three years. The Tengyeling monastery was disendowed; traitors
> were banished, and the rest of the monks were distributed to other
> monasteries. Those who collaborated with the Chinese were punished,
> but long-time Chinese residents were allowed to stay in Tibet.
The Pancen Lama wrote to the Central Gov of China at that time that
the Dalai Lama 13th was conducting a campaign of ethnic cleansing in
Tibet. Dalai Lama 13th was very cruel to non-tibetans residents in
Tibet. Some of them have their noses and limbs cut off and forced to
beg for food in the street and eventually starve to death. It's a myth
to say that Tibetans were one class above other people on earth.
The British wanted Tibetans to be their cannon fodder in their
aggression against China one century ago.
Now CIA is doing the same.
> The Dalai Lama
> turned the Tengyeling monastery into a school for medicine and
> astrology. The Government paid the expenses of students and gave the
> poor free medicine. The Dalai Lama sent troops to Gyantse to learn
> British military methods, and after comparing them to Russian and
> Japanese trained regiments, the British model was chosen. In 1916 the
> British imposed an embargo on arms from India or Japan to Tibet.
>
> In 1917 council minister (kalon) Chamba Tendar was sent to govern Kham
> with eight generals and a large staff. They recaptured much territory
> and converged on Chamdo, which held out for several months before
> surrendering. Tibetans escorted the Chinese prisoners to the Indian
> border to remove them from the region. General Peng Risheng had
> destroyed three major monasteries; but he refused to return to China
> and was allowed to settle in Tibet. As Tibetan troops approached
> Dajianlu, British consul Eric Teichman negotiated a tripartite
> agreement that was signed on August 19, 1918 by him, General Liu
> Zanding, and Chamba Tendar. The upper Yangzi River became the main
> border, but the Tibetans retained all the monasteries in the territory
> given to China. After the war the British resumed selling arms to
> Tibet on the guarantee that they would be used only for defense. A
> telegraph line connected Gyantse and Lhasa.
Dalai Lama 13th with the British help conducted turf war against other
warlords. He made some territorial gains in 1917 but lost most of them
20 years later.
Each time there was a conflict the British would move in and offer to
mediate.
Same today.
> In 1921 documents from the Tengyeling monastery showed that three
> monks had helped the Chinese. When they were imprisoned at Lhasa,
> Loseling college monks demonstrated. The military was used to arrest
> sixty monks and punish them. After this incident Charles Bell
> persuaded the British to sell Tibet 10,000 rifles, 20 Lewis machine-
> guns, and 10 mountain guns.
The Dalai militia was led by pro-British officer
These were British puppets who would later turn against the Dalai Lama
13 himself.
Hope u know who's Charles Bell by now.
> In 1922 Gyalpo, who had married a Nepalese
> girl, was to be arrested for selling liquor and tobacco, but he took
> refuge in the house of the Nepalese resident. Lungshar had the police
> break in and arrest him. This incident might have escalated into war
> with Nepal, but the British intervened to resolve the issue. The
> arrogant Lungshar fell out of favor. British trade agents at Gyantse
> built a road for three motor cars; but local people using animals
> objected, and the project was abandoned. Tibet bought from England
> machinery for a hydro-electric plant. Taxes on estates had to be
> raised to pay for a standing army.
>
> The Tashihunpo monasteries owned large estates in Tibet, and the
> Panchen Lama fled to China in 1923. He reached Beijing in February
> 1925 and was welcomed by the Guomindang Nationalist party.
Dalai Lama 13th, the warlord, spent too much money buying arms from
the British to wage war on other warlords. When he ran out of money he
trried to extort form the Panchen Lama
The Panchen Lama refused to go along so he fled to Beijing and he told
the central gov about the cruelty of Dalai Lama 13 inposing heavy
taxes on the serf and ethnic cleansing.
>The Dalai
> Lama asked for an English school at Gyantse in 1926, and it was
> supervised by Frank Ludlow; but after three years monks got it closed
> down as harmful to religion. The Darjeeling police chief Sonam Laden
> La was Tibetan, and he came to Lhasa to train police. When the Tsongdu
> was discussing taxing the estates of ministers and generals, Tsarong
> and other young generals interrupted the meeting to demand military
> representation. Lungshar urged monks to make a big issue of the
> disturbance. The Dalai Lama intervened and dismissed two generals and
> one minister. Tsarong was sent on a trip and relieved of his commander-
> in-chief position. Lungshar was fined 27 gold coins for creating
> problems. To keep the military from becoming too strong, the Dalai
> Lama demoted many officers.
Lungshar was a British puppet and Anglophile.
These were all attempts by the British to turn Dalai 13th into a
figure head.
The same tactic the British used again and again throughout the world.
If Dalai Lama 14th were ever returned to power, the CIA will
definitely use the Tibetan Youth Congress against him.
After Dalai Lama 13th got rid of Lungshar, he realized the true color
of the British, so, he tried to repair his relation with the Central
Gov again.
He died in 1933 replaced by Regent Reting who is pro-united China.
Again this showed the warlord nature of the Dalai Lama 13th. He tried
to expand his turf, imposing heavy taxes on the poor people, bought
arms and kill people. DL13 won some battles and lost some battles.
What he gained in 1914 he lost them in 1931
Today the Tibetans exile claim that 30% of China belongs to them.
Lol! That would have made DL13 very proud.
Regent Reting took over after the death of DL13th.
Regent Reting was pro-china.
Huge Richardson was no historian at all.
He was sent by the British to get rid of Regent Reting and install a
British puppet in Tibet.
He directed a campaign to demonize Regent Reting and have him
murdered.
> In 1934 the Chinese Communists made their long march to the northwest,
> but Tibetan troops made them move on from Horkhog, Bah, Lithang,
> Nyarong, and Derge.
The Long March PLA soldiers were helped by many Tibetans in 1934. They
became friends.
When the PLA returned in 1950, hundred of Tibetans immediately joined
the PLA and help persuaded the Tibetan Local militia to defect to the
PLA. The English puppet fled without a fight in 1951. Hugh Richardson
fled before PLA arrived.
This guy was a German SS portrayed as a hero in Holywood movie "seven
years in Tibet". Dalai Lama 14 had several Nazi friends including
convicted war criminal.
Read my other post on DL's fascist friends.
> In April 1945 Jiang sent Tibet arms and ammunition as a
> gift, saying he would continue to supply them with weapons free of
> cost.
>
> In March 1947 Tibetan representatives attended the Asian Relations
> Conference in India under the Tibetan flag.
> A hand grenade in a
> package sent to Regent Taktra Rimpoche exploded. On April 14 and 15
> the ex-regent Rating and some of his officials were arrested. The next
> day the suspected maker of the bomb committed suicide, and monks from
> the Che College of the Sera monastery, who supported Regent Rimpoche,
> murdered their abbot after his attempt to restrain their rebellious
> talk and military preparations. On April 20 the Tibetan army fired
> rounds from mountain guns against the Che College, and the monks fired
> back with rifles. Rating denied the charges he was trying to return to
> power, but flogging persuaded Kartho Rimpoche to reveal the conspiracy
> that was confirmed by Rating's secretary. Rating had written a letter
> to Jiang about Regent Takra's unjust rule and asked the Chinese to
> drop leaflets from airplanes, but they declined to do so. The Tibetan
> army attacked the Che College again on April 27 and took it over,
> killing about two hundred monks while 15 soldiers died.
The blood bath was instigated by the British to get rid of Reting.
Peace loving people, weren't they?
> The ex-regent
> Rating was murdered in prison on May 8. Two of his secretaries and
> about thirty monks were punished by imprisonment. Ten candidates to be
> the next Panchen Lama had been gathered by the Chinese, who broke
> Tibetan tradition by selecting the next Panchen Lama in 1944. The
> Government of Tibet did not recognize their selection.
Because Panchen Lama was traditionally pro-china, so the new pro-
British regent wanted to create as much contravercy as possible. Same
story today. There was no broke in the tradition.
Eventually the central Gov's candidate prevailed. He was Panchen Lama
10th. The pretender was living in Scotland.
> On August 15, 1947 the new government of India took over the treaty
> obligations the British had made with Tibet and replaced their
> missions. Tibet asked for the return of territories from Assam to
> Ladakh. When China invited Tibetan delegates to the National Assembly
> in 1949, Tibet sent a trade mission with official passports to India,
> the United Kingdom, and the United States as well as to China. In July
> 1949 the Tibetan Government asked Chinese officials to leave Lhasa and
> Chinese traders to leave Tibet, and they were politely escorted out of
> Lhasa with musical honors. Radio reporter Lowell Thomas was allowed to
> visit Tibet and provided publicity.
>
> Tibet affirmed its independence and tried to make military
> preparations to meet the threat of the Chinese Communists. India's
> Prime Minister Nehru referred to Chinese suzerainty over Tibet, but
> the Tibetans reminded him that the Simla agreement insisted that Tibet
> remain autonomous. The Indian Government recognized Communist China in
> January 1950. In the spring Ma Bufang was driven out of Jinghai by
> the Communists and asked permission to withdraw through Tibet. The
> Tibetan government sent ambassadors to India, Nepal, the United
> Kingdom, and the United States to ask for help.
No country recognized Tibet as an independent country in 1950 or
before.
Korean started in 1950 and CIA was looking for Tibetans cannon fodder.
They ask Lowell Thomas to write fairy tales about Tibet for American
public so as to generate support to fight a war with China.
> On August 15 a major
> earthquake devastated eastern Tibet, killing many. On October 7,
> Chinese troops invaded eastern Tibet using Khampa irregulars. The
> Tibetans were quickly overwhelmed, and many surrendered.
The Tibetan commander were persuaded to defect.
> At the same
> time a small Chinese force crossed into northwest Tibet that had not
> been invaded since 1716. On October 25 Communist China proclaimed that
> they were liberating three million Tibetans from imperialist
> oppression and consolidating the western borders of China. The next
> day India sent a protest and warned China that this could block their
> admission into the United Nations. Beijing replied that Tibet is part
> of China and that no foreign intervention was required.
India has always recognized Tibet as part of China, but India
inherited some special trade privileges in Tibet which they tried to
protect.
> On November 11, 1950 the government of Tibet appealed to the United
> Nations for help against Chinese aggression. Six days later the
> Tsongdu recognized the Dalai Lama as the ruler, and Regent Taktra
> resigned. El Salvador moved that the United Nations condemn China's
> invasion; but when India suggested that the issue could be settled
> peacefully without the United Nations, the United Kingdom and the
> United States went along with that. Yet a few days later in New Delhi
> the Indian Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Home Affairs, Sardar
> Vallabhai Patel, said,
>
> To use the sword against
> the traditionally peace-loving Tibetan people was unjustified.
> No other country in the world is as peace-loving as Tibet.
Fairy tales.
> The Chinese government did not follow India's advice
> to settle the Tibetan issue peacefully.1
>
> On December 11 Tibet sent a telegram asking the United Nations for a
> fact-finding commission, but they received no answer. The sixteen-year-
> old Dalai Lama and some leading officials left Lhasa for the Chumbi
> Valley.
The Dalai Lama joined the new gov of China. He even tried to join the
Communist Party of China in 1954.
In 1959 the aristocrates led a rebellion against the gov of China. CIA
engineered the defection of Dalai Lama 14 to India. DL14th was paid
USD186,000 a year by the CIA.
tbj....@yahoo.com
[quote]
Chinese and "proto-Tibeto-Burman" may have split sometime before 4000
BC, when the Chinese began growing millet in the Yellow River valley
while the Tibeto-Burmans remained nomads; Tibet split from Burma circa
500
[end quote]
The chinese methods of subjugation of Tibet are not new at all.
Theyhave happened many times over and over in thousands of years of
history, and yet Tibet would claim independence again and again when
it could - only vast population differences let the occasional Mongol
or Manchu empire send armies that could enslave Tibet. But those
empires were not chinese - in fact, in those empires, the chinese were
second class citizens. The chinese of today are staking a claim to
colonize Tibet based upon the brutality of earlier non-Chinese
empires. Perhaps the fact that the han empires were greatly eclipsed
by non-han empires grates the han chinese so much that they want a new
han empire under the ccp - no matter how many people or cultures they
have to annihilate. China under the ccp is a pathetic ancient power
structure.
China makes a lot of noise about the 14th Dalai Lama being a
'splittist', but so was the 13th Lama and many more Lamas before him.
ALL nationalist Tibetans for thousands of years have fought against
the rule of the Chinese whenever they could.
In Lhasa the Chinese replaced the Tibetan police and confiscated the
he restored the Dalai Lama's rank. The Dalai Lama replied that he
wanted no rank from the Chinese and that he had resumed leadership of
the government. Lacking supplies, the Chinese at Lhasa offered to
surrender in August, and the Tibetans agreed they could return to
China by way of India. One group left, but two others found refuge at
the Tengyeling monastery and fought from there. They were starved into
surrendering again and left for India in January 1913. That month
Tibet and Mongolia signed a treaty declaring themselves separate from
China; the Dalai Lama and Jetsun Dampa Hutuktu recognized each other's
independence.
The 13th Dalai Lama returned to Lhasa amid great celebration and
issued a proclamation declaring that Buddhist institutions would be
preserved in an independent Tibet. He forbade the amputation of limbs
as punishment and allowed vacant lands to be cultivated free of taxes
for three years. The Tengyeling monastery was disendowed; traitors
were banished, and the rest of the monks were distributed to other
monasteries. Those who collaborated with the Chinese were punished,
but long-time Chinese residents were allowed to stay in Tibet. The
of ammunition and had to send reassurances to Nepal. The Dalai Lama
turned the Tengyeling monastery into a school for medicine and
astrology. The Government paid the expenses of students and gave the
poor free medicine. The Dalai Lama sent troops to Gyantse to learn
British military methods, and after comparing them to Russian and
Japanese trained regiments, the British model was chosen. In 1916 the
British imposed an embargo on arms from India or Japan to Tibet.
In 1917 council minister (kalon) Chamba Tendar was sent to govern Kham
with eight generals and a large staff. They recaptured much territory
and converged on Chamdo, which held out for several months before
surrendering. Tibetans escorted the Chinese prisoners to the Indian
border to remove them from the region. General Peng Risheng had
destroyed three major monasteries; but he refused to return to China
and was allowed to settle in Tibet. As Tibetan troops approached
Dajianlu, British consul Eric Teichman negotiated a tripartite
agreement that was signed on August 19, 1918 by him, General Liu
Zanding, and Chamba Tendar. The upper Yangzi River became the main
border, but the Tibetans retained all the monasteries in the territory
given to China. After the war the British resumed selling arms to
Tibet on the guarantee that they would be used only for defense. A
telegraph line connected Gyantse and Lhasa.
In 1921 documents from the Tengyeling monastery showed that three
monks had helped the Chinese. When they were imprisoned at Lhasa,
Loseling college monks demonstrated. The military was used to arrest
sixty monks and punish them. After this incident Charles Bell
persuaded the British to sell Tibet 10,000 rifles, 20 Lewis machine-
guns, and 10 mountain guns. In 1922 Gyalpo, who had married a Nepalese
girl, was to be arrested for selling liquor and tobacco, but he took
refuge in the house of the Nepalese resident. Lungshar had the police
break in and arrest him. This incident might have escalated into war
with Nepal, but the British intervened to resolve the issue. The
arrogant Lungshar fell out of favor. British trade agents at Gyantse
built a road for three motor cars; but local people using animals
objected, and the project was abandoned. Tibet bought from England
machinery for a hydro-electric plant. Taxes on estates had to be
raised to pay for a standing army.
The Tashihunpo monasteries owned large estates in Tibet, and the
Panchen Lama fled to China in 1923. He reached Beijing in February
1925 and was welcomed by the Guomindang Nationalist party. The Dalai
Lama asked for an English school at Gyantse in 1926, and it was
supervised by Frank Ludlow; but after three years monks got it closed
down as harmful to religion. The Darjeeling police chief Sonam Laden
La was Tibetan, and he came to Lhasa to train police. When the Tsongdu
was discussing taxing the estates of ministers and generals, Tsarong
and other young generals interrupted the meeting to demand military
representation. Lungshar urged monks to make a big issue of the
disturbance. The Dalai Lama intervened and dismissed two generals and
one minister. Tsarong was sent on a trip and relieved of his
commander-
in-chief position. Lungshar was fined 27 gold coins for creating
problems. To keep the military from becoming too strong, the Dalai
Lama demoted many officers. A Poyul ruler refused to pay taxes, but
1933, and the previous border was restored. In his last years the
Dalai Lama warned that Communism would come to Tibet if they did not
take precautions. He died on December 17, 1933.
Tibet 1934-50
The young and inexperienced Silon Langdun, the Dalai Lama's nephew,
was prime minister, but Lungshan quickly proclaimed Tibet a republic
under the Tsongdu (National Assembly) where he was the leader. He
assumed the rank of Tsepson and took control of the military, taking
power away from Kunphela by persuading the middle-class sons who had
been forced into the military to disband their Drong Drak Makhar
regiment. The next day Kunphela and two personal attendants of the
Dalai Lama were banished by the Tsongdu for failing to report the
Dalai Lama's illness adequately. After four months under Lungshan,
Minister Trimon Norbu Wangyal learned that Lungshan was going to
assassinate him; he informed Regent Rating and found asylum in the
Drepung monastery. The Kashag (Council of Ministers) then arrested
Lungshan. After an inquiry he was blinded and imprisoned for life. The
testament of the 13th Dalai Lama was used as a guide for governing.
General Huang Musong was allowed to lead a mission to Lhasa in April
1934 as a religious tribute to the late Dalai Lama. He proposed that
Tibet become part of China, but the Tibetan Government declined and
demanded the return of eastern territories. The Chinese had a wireless
radio and used money to bribe Regent Rating and other officials. Basil
Gould, the political officer in Sikkim, visited Lhasa from time to
time and left historian Hugh Richardson there with a radio operator.
In 1934 the Chinese Communists made their long march to the northwest,
but Tibetan troops made them move on from Horkhog, Bah, Lithang,
Nyarong, and Derge. In 1935 Tibetan envoys objected to a proposed
build a canal. In April 1945 Jiang sent Tibet arms and ammunition as a
gift, saying he would continue to supply them with weapons free of
cost.
In March 1947 Tibetan representatives attended the Asian Relations
Conference in India under the Tibetan flag. A hand grenade in a
package sent to Regent Taktra Rimpoche exploded. On April 14 and 15
the ex-regent Rating and some of his officials were arrested. The next
day the suspected maker of the bomb committed suicide, and monks from
the Che College of the Sera monastery, who supported Regent Rimpoche,
murdered their abbot after his attempt to restrain their rebellious
talk and military preparations. On April 20 the Tibetan army fired
rounds from mountain guns against the Che College, and the monks fired
back with rifles. Rating denied the charges he was trying to return to
power, but flogging persuaded Kartho Rimpoche to reveal the conspiracy
that was confirmed by Rating's secretary. Rating had written a letter
to Jiang about Regent Takra's unjust rule and asked the Chinese to
drop leaflets from airplanes, but they declined to do so. The Tibetan
army attacked the Che College again on April 27 and took it over,
killing about two hundred monks while 15 soldiers died. The ex-regent
Rating was murdered in prison on May 8. Two of his secretaries and
about thirty monks were punished by imprisonment. Ten candidates to be
the next Panchen Lama had been gathered by the Chinese, who broke
Tibetan tradition by selecting the next Panchen Lama in 1944. The
Government of Tibet did not recognize their selection.
On August 15, 1947 the new government of India took over the treaty
obligations the British had made with Tibet and replaced their
missions. Tibet asked for the return of territories from Assam to
Ladakh. When China invited Tibetan delegates to the National Assembly
in 1949, Tibet sent a trade mission with official passports to India,
the United Kingdom, and the United States as well as to China. In July
1949 the Tibetan Government asked Chinese officials to leave Lhasa and
Chinese traders to leave Tibet, and they were politely escorted out of
Lhasa with musical honors. Radio reporter Lowell Thomas was allowed to
visit Tibet and provided publicity.
Tibet affirmed its independence and tried to make military
preparations to meet the threat of the Chinese Communists. India's
Prime Minister Nehru referred to Chinese suzerainty over Tibet, but
the Tibetans reminded him that the Simla agreement insisted that Tibet
remain autonomous. The Indian Government recognized Communist China in
January 1950. In the spring Ma Bufang was driven out of Jinghai by
the Communists and asked permission to withdraw through Tibet. The
Tibetan government sent ambassadors to India, Nepal, the United
Kingdom, and the United States to ask for help. On August 15 a major
earthquake devastated eastern Tibet, killing many. On October 7,
Chinese troops invaded eastern Tibet using Khampa irregulars. The
Tibetans were quickly overwhelmed, and many surrendered. At the same
time a small Chinese force crossed into northwest Tibet that had not
been invaded since 1716. On October 25 Communist China proclaimed that
they were liberating three million Tibetans from imperialist
oppression and consolidating the western borders of China. The next
day India sent a protest and warned China that this could block their
admission into the United Nations. Beijing replied that Tibet is part
of China and that no foreign intervention was required.
On November 11, 1950 the government of Tibet appealed to the United
Nations for help against Chinese aggression. Six days later the
Tsongdu recognized the Dalai Lama as the ruler, and Regent Taktra
resigned. El Salvador moved that the United Nations condemn China's
invasion; but when India suggested that the issue could be settled
peacefully without the United Nations, the United Kingdom and the
United States went along with that. Yet a few days later in New Delhi
the Indian Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Home Affairs, Sardar
Vallabhai Patel, said,
To use the sword against
the traditionally peace-loving Tibetan people was unjustified.
No other country in the world is as peace-loving as Tibet.
The Chinese government did not follow India's advice
to settle the Tibetan issue peacefully.1
On December 11 Tibet sent a telegram asking the United Nations for a
fact-finding commission, but they received no answer. The sixteen-
year-
old Dalai Lama and some leading officials left Lhasa for the Chumbi
Valley.
[end quote]
Yu
> The Longest Freedom Struggle in the Whole World - Tibetans opposing
Chinese rule for Millennia
The Dalai Lama is most probably the longest serving CIA puppet in the
world.
His contemporaries such as Suharto, Marcos, Pinochet have all outlive
heir usefulness.
As China grow stronger Dalai will be more valuable.
bmo...@nyx.net
> On Apr 16, 3:58 pm, "tbj.b...@yahoo.com" <tbj.b...@yahoo.com> wrote:> The Longest Freedom Struggle in the Whole World - Tibetans opposing
>
> Chinese rule for Millennia
>
> The Dalai Lama is most probably the longest serving CIA puppet in the
> world.
Yu probably has a closet full of tinfoil hats, one for each day of the
week.
> His contemporaries such as Suharto, Marcos, Pinochet have all outlive
> heir usefulness.
> As China grow stronger Dalai will be more valuable.
Says the mindless puppet who trumpets the Chinese government's line no
matter how far from reality it gets.
Mohammed the Holy Fucker
since Oliver Cromwell , the original Lord Protector of
England .
> border to remove them from the region. General Peng ...
>
> read more »
Mohammed the Holy Fucker
are you sure , ?
since when did Burma rule Tibet ? 1 year ago after the
monk's riots in Yangoon ?
remember , the Khmers might have come from west Burma ,
Khmers addressed their Khmer kings in the past as Varman ,
just like the people of Assam in the past .
> border to remove them from the region. General Peng ...
>
> read more »
Mohammed the Holy Fucker
wrote:
>
> read more »- Hide quoted text -
tbj....@yahoo.com
wrote:
> Tibet splitted from Burma 500 years ago ?
>
> are you sure , ?
>
> since when did Burma rule Tibet ? 1 year ago after the
> monk's riots in Yangoon ?
>
> remember , the Khmers might have come from west Burma ,
>
> Khmers addressed their Khmer kings in the past as Varman ,
> just like the people of Assam in the past .
Varman is Sanskrit - means warrior.
Bengali names even today have it as Berman.
But the issue here is the seemingly eternal struggle (and many
victories) that Tibetans have had to fight to defend themselves
against the rapacious chinese.
> ...
>
> read more »