Ruling Pertaining to Burial in Jewish Cemeteries - Discrimination Against Non-Jews Carries Over Unto death!

Doc Tavish

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Ruling Pertaining to Burial in Jewish Cemeteries
submitted: 18-Sep-97 , 16 Elul 5757, at 8:54:26 Israel Time

(IINS News Service -Israel-9/18) Minister of Immigration and
Absorption Yuli Edelshtein reported that Sephardic Chief Rabbi Eliyahu
Bakshi Doron has issued a ruling which states non-Jews may be interred
in a Jewish cemetery, in a section together with Jews whose lineage is
in doubt.

[Notice the condition of burial: "... non-Jews may be interred in a
Jewish cemetery, in a section together with Jews whose lineage is in
doubt." The Jews only allow the "pure" Jews to buried in the
consecrated ground! For consecration and its meaning see the attached.
Tavish comment.]

14-year-old Grisha (Gregory) Paskovitch was killed in the July 30th
Machane Yehuda double suicide attack, problems arose regarding the
young victim's burial, since his mother is not Jewish.

After a Greek Orthodox cleric refused to conduct the burial service in
accordance with the mother's wishes, Minister Edelshtein intervened
and finally secured a burial site for the young terror victim in a
Jewish cemetery, in a section for those whose lineage is in doubt.

[Still the boy is buried "in a section for those whose lineage is in
doubt." Looks like Jews are into racial purity even unto death! Tavish
comment.]

In the case of Paskovitch, whose parents did not want a Greek Orthodox
or Christian burial but wanted their son to be interred in Jerusalem,
the burial society refused to assist the family because according to
Jewish law, the boy was not a Jew.

[Notice the: "...the burial society refused to assist the family
because according to Jewish law, the boy was not a Jew." What if
whites were to say they din't want a black buried in their cemetery
because he/she wasn't white? What would they be called? Racist and
bigoted! Tavish comment.]

Only after the intervention of Edelshtein and subsequently Rabbi
Doron, did burial society officials agree to let the young boy be
buried in a Jewish cemetery in a special section.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Attachment and related posting:

http://www.middlebury.edu/list_archives/crj/0157.html

Re: [CRJ]: Jewish burial

Message-Id: <3.0.2.32.1997100...@northnet.org>
Date: Wed, 08 Oct 1997 16:24:42 -0400
To: c...@panther.middlebury.edu
From: Samuel Jacobs <jac...@northnet.org>
Subject: Re: [CRJ]: Jewish burial
In-Reply-To: <343BC348...@northnet.org>

Dear Esther and Lionel,

[ ... ]

I am not sure what rules and regulations the Reform Movement has
on these matters. Both Orthodox and Reform are very clear: no
cremations and a non-Jewish spouse may not be buried in the
consecrated part of the cemetery.

[Please note Samuel Jacobs did say concerning Non-Jews: "Both
Orthodox and Reform are very clear: ... a non-Jewish spouse may not be
buried in the consecrated part of the cemetery." My showing this is
concerning the discrimination toward Non-Jews; cremation is not the
issue that I am pointing out. If whites were to make the same kind of
statements toward blacks then what would be said concerning the
whites? Tavish comment.]

Having said that, I must confess that adhering to these rules nowadays
is all but impossible. I know we have at least two cremations in our
(originally Orthodox) cemetery in Massena..
The first one was done surreptitiously; the latest one openly. So far
as non-Jewish spouses are concerned, that is even harder to deal with
when one considers how extensive intermarriage has become. When I
raised the question ever so slightly some 20 years ago, the
Conservative Rabbi who did the funeral said he understood the woman
had begun to study toward conversion some years early and that this
was sufficient for him to give her a Jewish burial. Since then there
have been two or three more but the issue was always clouded because
someone in the family always said, "he or she had been converted years
ago when the couple lived in City X. So I, myself, though very much
of a traditionalist at heart, have simply accepted reality of today's
confused world and try to avoid getting into the nitty -
gritty of such problems.

An orthodox Rabbi suggested a few years ago that here in Massena
we plant a row of trees toward the back, lay out additional plots and
have questionable interments take place there. Alas, I am sure that
if the other spouse already has a double plot in the cemetery proper,
surviving family members will raise all hell and in the end, in a
place as small as Massena, we would simply give in.

If I run into web sitres that are relevant, I'll let you know.

Sorry that I have not been able to see you for over a year but I
hope I run into you one of these days.Sam Jacobs M 10/8/97 -0600,
you wrote:
>Our synagogue Board of Directors is discussing the possibility of
>opening a new section of the cemetery for burials of non-Jews whose
>spouse(s) is Jewish. This would be on ground that has not been
>consecrated. BUT there is also discussion on burying cremated bodies in
>the consecrated Jewish portion of the cemetery.

[Notice the Jews are willing to make a concession to cremated bodies
BUT they still wish to exclude non-Jews from the consecrated ground!
How nice! Tavish comment.]

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

More on discrimination in death by Jewry:

http://silk.compclass.com/mlj/subject/s2735.html

Liberal Judaism Mailing List Archives

From: Stephen Berr <st...@bee.net>
Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 06:36:43 -0800
Subject: Burial of Non-Jew in a Jewish Cemetary

> I think he wants to convert but only for reasons of the cemetery.
> This of course I can't and won't do.

I would ask several questions. Why was the wife buried in a Jewish
cemetery? Perhaps she led her life (although married to a non-Jew) as
a Jew? Perhaps she wanted to be buried with her family? Now this man
wants to "rest" next to his wife. I think that's great! Why not
convert for the reason of cemetery? There is more than cemetery here,
there is love for a wife. This is not a person who is converting to
get a set of dishes, or to be able to have a party. The level of
kavanah is high, and I think that it's cruel and sad to deny the man
an opportunity to feel (in life) that he will be rest (after his
death) next to his life partner.

After writing most of this I called some of the local cemeteries and
funeral parlors. The response was heartening and disheartening at the
same time. I was told that the burial would be possible if a Rabbi
performed the ceremony.

Following up on that I called the Philadelphia Board of Rabbis, and
was put in touch with a Rabbi who gave me the Conservative viewpoint.
I know that rules made by one Jewish group have no bearing on another
group, but here is the response (based on Talmudic interpretations
according to the Rabbi) to whit: a non-Jewish person can be buried in
a Jewish cemetery if a separation (low hedge, concrete marker, etc) is
placed around the grave "separating" it from the Jewish graves so that
it is (technically) not _in_ the Jewish cemetery. I was amused at this
fiction, and it brought me back to my original feeling, that if this
person wanted to be converted, then what was the harm? Some
might say it is more worthwhile to live as a Jew than die as a Jew,
but that's almost the mirror punchline of a joke.

Speaking of jokes, here is one of my favorite jokes. It also happens
to closely pertain to this very topic:

Son to father on death-bed: "Dad, where do you want to be buried? Down
here in Florida, or up north next to Mom?"

Father: "Why don't you surprise me."

========================================================

From: mshu...@ix.netcom.com (Moshe Shulman)
Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 15:33:24 -0800
Subject: Re: Burial of Non-Jew in a Jewish Cemetary

Richard, it seems that he is not willing to take into consideration
what Judaism teaches on such subjects. Why should you compromise your
beliefs by getting someone else to do what you wouldn't when he seems
unwilling to compromise?

Moshe Shulman
mshu...@ix.netcom.com

================== END ======================

More of this discrimination even in death at the site!

How did you all like the "talmudic ruling" as declared above that
said: "... here is the response (based on Talmudic interpretations
according to the Rabbi) to whit: a non-Jewish person can be buried in
a Jewish cemetery if a separation (low hedge, concrete marker, etc) is
placed around the grave "separating" it from the Jewish graves so that
it is (technically) not _in_ the Jewish cemetery."

I am telling you all that this is the most racist tribe there is on
Earth. Notice in USENET you see the liberals ridiculing people and
calling them racist bigots because they don't believe whites and
balcks should get married BUT to the Jew it is only Jew versus Gentile
and the Gentile can be any color!

Doc Tavish

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FEATURE - Burial row dogs Israeli immigrants, bombing victim

02:11 a.m. Aug 07, 1997 Eastern

By Danny Gur-arieh

JERUSALEM, Aug 7 (Reuter) - The grave diggers finished their work and
Grigory Pesachovic's relatives arrived, but his shiny pine coffin
remained above ground.

The burial of the 15-year-old boy, who died with 12 other people in an
Islamic suicide bombing last week, plunged his family into an ugly
dispute with Jewish religious authorities.

Orthodox rabbis with powers over spheres of Israeli life from cradle
to grave say Pesachovic and thousands of others who migrated from the
former Soviet Union under the "law of return" are not Jews according
to religious law.

They refused to bury him in a Jewish cemetery, sending the body to
Mount Zion where Christians are interred.

But Pesachovic was not brought up as a Christian. When the Greek
Orthodox priest insisted on conducting a religious burial, the boy's
mother called off the funeral and the body was taken to the morgue.

Four days later, the family agreed to his burial in part of a
Jerusalem cemetery for the Baha'i faith.

"This is an affront and a humiliation to a family whose members are
full citizens of this country and deserve full rights," said veteran
civil rights activist Shulamit Aloni, a former cabinet minister and a
Jew.

UP TO 500,000 WHOSE JUDAISM IS "IN DOUBT"

Jewish immigration has been fundamental to Israel since the state was
created in 1948, but widespread inter marriage among Jews in the
former Soviet Union has fostered ambivalence among Israel's clergy
over the wave of Soviet immigration that began in 1989.

Under religious law, non-binding in Israel's legal system but viewed
as a source of legislative inspiration, Jews are defined according to
their mothers. Orthodox rabbis view the children of mixed marriages as
Jews only if the mother is Jewish.

Pesachovic's mother is not Jewish.

But rules for instant citizenship under Israel's law of return are
much less strict, requiring any one Jewish parent or grandparent.

The discrepancy between Israeli law and Jewish Orthodoxy -- the most
religiously stringent form of Judaism and the dominant one in Israel
-- accounts for the problems many of the nearly 700,000 recent
immigrants have faced.

"There are no pure Jewish communities left anywhere in the world. If
we are interested in further immigration it must be clear that...we'll
get a high percentage of non-Jews," said Absorption Minister Yuli
Edelstein, himself a Russian immigrant.

Many immigrants have been unable to marry, with rabbis refusing to
perform what they view as mixed-marriage ceremonies. Orthodox rabbis
alone are authorised to perform weddings in Israel.

Some recent immigrants have been pressured to undergo an arduous
conversion to erase doubts about their Judaism.

"In our estimate there are as many as 500,000 people among the
immigrants whose Judaism is in doubt," said Yair Wolf, adviser to the
Religious Affairs Ministry which controls most Jewish cemeteries.

"A MATTER OF RESURRECTION"

Wolf said rabbis explain the strict separation between Jews and
non-Jews in cemeteries as a way of helping the messiah distinguish
between religious groups during redemption.

"This is a matter of resurrection. Jews cannot be buried next to
non-Jews."

He said the authorities were now fencing off sections of cemeteries
for burial of "special cases."

Pesachovic's posthumous plight may have lent new impetus to a campaign
for secular cemeteries launched years ago but stuck since Prime
Minister Benjamin Netanyahu formed a government last year comprised
largely of religious and right-wing parties.

Netanyahu visited the boy's family, asserting in a statement later
that Pesachovic was "part of the nation in Israel which terrorists are
trying to oust."

A law passed just before Netanyahu's election 14 months ago ordered
the Religious Affairs ministry to allocate land for secular cemeteries
but the authorities say they don't the money.

Aloni said the rabbis were stonewalling while Pesachovic and others
paid the price.

"He's good enough to die for Israel, he would have been good enough to
serve in the Israeli army had he lived to age 18, but he's not good
enough for a proper burial," she said.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Jews represent Earth's foremost racists!

Doc Tavish

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Jewish, Polish Leaders Sign Auschwitz Museum Preservation Plan

By MONIKA SCISLOWSKA Associated Press Writer

March 05, 1997

WARSAW, Poland (AP) - Crowning years of work, Jewish and Polish
leaders signed a $93.5-million agreement Wednesday to expand and
preserve the Auschwitz Museum at the site of the notorious former Nazi
death camp.

[ ... ]

Lerman and Israel Gutman, vice chairman of the Auschwitz Museum's
international council, headed a Jewish group that has been holding
talks with Polish officials on the museum.

Lerman said that people living on or near the museum premises will be
treated "humanely" as the project is implemented.

"We do not intend to come in with a bulldozer," he said.

Gutman said the declaration culminates years of talks on how to best
preserve the Auschwitz Museum, a "symbol of the great tragedy, an
accusation and a warning against the dangers in political life and in
man himself."

"It is a great lesson of history for the new generations," he added.

A solution is still being sought to the sensitive issue of religious
symbols around the museum. Jews oppose the presence of the Christian
crosses, while the Roman Catholic church says they commemorate the
suffering of all Auschwitz victims, Jews and Christians.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Read again the "bottom line" in the last paragraph which states: "Jews
oppose the presence of the Christian crosses.." What does this tell
you all?

More on the situation concerning Jewish bigotry toward Christian
symbols:

Statement by professor Israel Shahak on the Jewish
hatred towards Christianity

[Professor Israel Shahak is an Israeli citizen,
former concentration camp inmate during WW II.]

Dishonouring Christian religious symbols is an old
religious duty in Judaism. Spitting on the cross,
an especially on the Crucifix, and spitting when a
Jew passes a church, have been obligatory from
around AD 200 for pious Jews. In the past, when the
danger of anti-Semitic hostility was a real one,
the pious Jews were commanded by their rabbis either
to spit so that the reason for doing so would
be unknown, or to spit onto their chests, not actually
on the cross or openly before the church. The
increasing strength of the Jewish state has caused
these customs to become more open again but there
should be no mistake: The spitting on the cross for
converts from Christianity to Judaism, organized in
Kibbutz Sa'ad and financed by the Israeli government
is a an act of traditional Jewish piety. It does not
seize to be barbaric, horrifying and wicked because
of this! On the contrary, it is worse because it is
so traditional, and much more dangerous as well, just
as the renewed anti-Semitism of the Nazis was
dangerous, because in part, it played on the
traditional anti-Semitic past.

This barbarous attitude of contempt and hate for
Christian religious symbols has grown in Israel. In
the 1950s Israel issued a series of stamps
representing pictures of Israeli cities. In the
picture of Nazareth, there was a church and on its
top a cross - almost invisible, perhaps the size of a
millimeter. Nevertheless, the religious parties,
supported by many on the Zionist "left" made a scandal
and the stamps were quickly withdrawn and replaced by
an almost identical series from which the microscopic
cross was withdrawn.

Then there was the long-drawn-out battle about
Christian influence in elementary arithmetic. Pious
Jews object to the international plus sign for it is a
cross, and it may in their opinion, influence little
children to convert to Christianity. Another
"explanation" holds; it would then be difficult to
"educate" them to spit on the cross, if they become
used to it in their arithmetic exercises. Until the
early 1970s two different sets of arithmetic books were
used in Israel. One for the secular schools, employing
an inverted "T" sign. In the early '70's the religious
fanatics "converted" the Labour Party to the great
danger of the cross in arithmetic, and from that time,
in all Hebrew elementary schools (and now many high
schools as well) the international plus sign has been
forbidden.

Similar development is visible in other areas of
education. Teaching the New Testament was always
forbidden, but in the old time conscientious teachers
of history used to circumvent the prohibition, by
organizing seminars or sending the students to
libraries (not the school libraries, of course).
About 10 years ago there was a wave of denouncing
such teachers. One in Jerualem was almost sacked, for
advising her history pupils, who were studying the
history of Jews in Palestine around 30-40 AD,
that it would be a good thing if they would read a
few chapters of the New Testament as a historical
aid. She retained her post only after humbly
promising not to do this again.

However in recent years, anti-Christian feelings are
literally exploding in Israel (and among Israel-
worshipping Jews in Diaspora too) together with the
increase of the Jewish fanaticism in all other areas
too.

The real enemies of truth here, as in many other
aspects of the Israel reality, are the socialists,
"liberals", "radicals", etc. in the USA. Imagine the
reaction of the US Liberals, and of such papers as
The Nation and New York Review of Books, not to speak
of the New York Times if in any state whatsoever, the
government financed spitting on a Star of David? But
when here in Israel, the government finances the
spitting on a cross, they are and will continue to be,
quite silent. More than this, they helpt to finance
it. United States taxpayers, who are of course mostly
Christians, are finacing at least half the Israeli
budget, one way or another, and therefore the spitting
on the cross too.

* * *
Professor Israel Shahak is an Israeli citizen,
former concentration camp inmate during WW II,
and the founder of Israel's Human Rights League.
His new book "Jewish History, Jewish Religion"
about Jewish hatred and contempt toward Gentiles,
is highly recommended.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

PART II

Subject: Jews and Crosses
From: Doc Tavish <"tav...@phoenix.net"@phoenix.net>
Date: 1996/12/20
Message-ID: <59ed29$aej$2...@uhura.phoenix.net>
Newsgroups:
alt.revisionism,alt.religion.christian,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power

Attacks on Christian symbols by Jews

27A *** Houston Chronicle Sunday March 3, 1996
Cities with Christian symbols on official seals face lawsuits
Knight-Ridder Tribune News

WASHINGTON - The symbolic story of an American community may be
glimpsed in its official government seal: A sheaf of wheat signifies
one community's agricultural roots. A wrench suggests another's
industrial base. A covered wagon recalls a third community's founding
pioneers.
But what does a Christian cross on an official seal say? That the
city or county endorses one religion? Or that religious belief is
merely one element of its history?
The vexing constitutional questions that arise from religious
symbols on city seals already have divided several communities in
bitter conflict.
In a case now on the Supreme Court's doorstep, the city of
Edmond, Okla., is appealing a lower court's ruling that the city's
seal appeared to endorse Christianity and thus violated the
First Amendment principle of separation of church and state.
At stake, city officials say, are the government seals of
hundreds of U.S. cities and counties - each containing a religious
symbol, such as a cross, a church or a Bible.
The Edmond seal, designed in 1965, depicts a covered wagon, a
train, an oil well, a college tower and a Christian cross.
The seal is on view throughout the growing community north of
Oklahoma City: on city flags, official vehicles, city stationery,
uniforms worn by police officers and firefighters, utility bills,
signs at the city limits.
"We haven't endorsed any religion," protested Bob Rudkin, the
mayor of Edmond, in an interview. "The cross on the seal is part of
our heritage. The people who want to remove it want to rewrite history
and remove all religious symbols from public life. We're approaching
the ridiculous.
"The seals of 70 other cities in Oklahoma have religious
symbols," he said. "Most of our cities came from religion symbolism,
like Corpus Christi and Zion, Ill. Toledo, Ohio, was named
for a holy city in Spain. That's where we get 'Holy Toledo!"
"That's bogus," replied Martin Feldman, a Jewish car salesman
who, together with members of the Unitarian Church, challenged the
Edmond seal in court.
"What about my history? There's nothing wrong with Christianity,
it's a wonderful religion, but what's good for them is not necessarily
good for everyone else."
After a two-day trial, a federal judge approved the seal. The
judge concluded that the First Amendment did not require the city
government to ignore the importance of religion in its history.
But a Denver-based federal appeals panel disagreed. The court,
quoting a rabbi's testimony in an earlier seal case, recalled that
"the cross had at times symbolized outright oppression and persecution
of Jewish people."
It also has tragic associations for Lebanese Muslims and Northern
Irish Protestants, and may remind Native Americans in the Southwest of
"those who sought to extinguish their culture and religion," the court
noted.
Edmond officials said the overwhelming majority of the 66,000
residents in their city favored the cross and did not see any
government endorsement of Christianity in it.
But, replied the appeals court, "the comfort of the majority is
not the main concern of the Bill of Rights."
Many in the city protested, some angrily. Irate residents wrote
letters to newspapers. Members of the First Baptist Church formed a
huge cross on the church lawn. Some people distributed "Save Our Seal"
T-shirts.
In several other cities, seals bearing religious symbols have
been challenged and invalidated by federal courts. Among them were the
official seals of Zion and Rolling Meadows, Ill., and Bernalillo
County, N.M., all of which depicted crosses.
Fear of a lawsuit persuaded Logan, Utah, to remove a picture of
the Mormon temple from the city logo after an Assemblies of God pastor
complained that "the temple is more private and exclusive than any
private club in Logan" and "should not be a symbol chosen to represent
the public."
In Milledgeville, Ga., the word "Christianity" appeared on the
official logo until the city settled a lawsuit by removing the word
from large images of the seal. However, the word was allowed to remain
on stationery and documents, where it is too small to read.
But one official seal, in Austin survived court scrutiny despite
its depiction of a cross. A New Orleans based federal appeals court
saw no endorsement of religion in it.
The Supreme Court has declined to review cases about
cross-bearing seals in the past, but Edmond officials argue that the
issue is ripe for review, and the court is expected to decide
soon on whether to take the case.
Court rejection of the Edmond seal, the city officials say,
showed "hostility toward religion" and failed to "see the seal for
what it is - a collage of historical symbols."
But Micheal C. Salem of Nonnan, Okla., a lawyer representing the
challengers, said Edmond's portrayal of a cross amid an array of
secular symbols should offend Christians as well as non-Christians.
The seal, he said, is "a heresy just as incongruous as money
lenders in the temple." It takes the form of "diluted wine" or
"Christian-lite," he said.
Edmond has spent nearly $100,000 to defend its ubiquitous seals.
And if the city loses, Mayor Rudkin estimated it would cost another
$30,000 to remove them.
Joseph Conn, (a Jewish) spokesman for Americans United for
Separation of Church and State, said he anticipated more court
disputes over official seals.
"As we become more religiously pluralistic, the day when people
would tolerate a symbol of the majority faith on government property
is past," Conn said.

Special note: Consider the following text that appears on page 44 from
the book named: THE WAR AGAINST THE JEWS 1933-1945 by Lucy S.
Dawidowicz. Bantam Books, New York #13084-6 May 1975.
"Political anti-Semitism began in Berlin with Adolf Stocker,
though Stocker did not actually begin with overt, explicit
anti-Semitism. In 1878, in Berlin, where he was a court preacher, he
founded the Christian Social Worker's party. The name
itself suggested the party's implicit anti-Semitic bias.* [see
footnote]

* [footnote on bottom of page 44] The word "Christian" in a European
organization's name indicated its anti-Semitic character. The classic
illustration is Admiral Horthy's joyous embrace of the secretary of
the American YMCA as the head of "such an important
anti-Semitic organization."

* * * * * * * *

From a news story:

> Religious intolerance. WFTS the ABC affliate in Tampa reports
> on 13 January 1997 on the 6pm news ...
>
> The wide spread state custom of families placing roadside
> memorials where their loved ones had died in auto accidents became a
> bit unwielding so the state decided to replace then with white plus
> signs, an international traffic symbol advising safety.
>
> The religiously intolerant bigots of the SE Florida American
> Jewish Committee protested that the international symbol looked too
> much like a christian cross and the plan has been shelved due to the
> number of jewish votes in southeast Florida.

What Jews did above is taking place in Texas also!

Doc Tavish

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......................................................................................................
Click here to see what else troubles Jews and read the following:

http://home1.gte.net/imago2/markers.html

Link was good 1/31/98

.......................................................................................................

Doc Tavish

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On Sun, 01 Feb 1998 01:06:34 GMT, doc_t...@nonspam.bigfoot.com (Doc
Tavish) wrote:

.........................................................................................
New- Florida Laws on Roadside Memorials.

http://home1.gte.net/imago2/fllaws.html

Florida Laws

All markers MUST be erected on the property line with the concent of
the property owner. (Can use this optional form) due to these laws:

According to Florida Statute 479.11 (8) - No sign shall be erected,
used, operated, or maintained which is located upon the right-of-way
of any highway on the State Highway System, interstate highway system,
or federal-aid primary highway system. And F.S. 479.107 (1) states -
Any sign located on the right-of-way of a highway on the State Highway
System or on any portion of the interstate or federal-aid primary
highway system which is in violation of s. 479.11 (8) may be removed
by the Department of Transportation. Authorized highway memorial
markers are available through DOT only. Requests for markers should be
made to the Public Information Director for the District where the
marker would be located. Following is a list of Public Information

Directors and the counties that they represent:

[ ... ] Director's deleted

For the latest FDOT press release regarding the highway memorial
marker program please visit
www.dot.state.fl.us/moreDOT/spenews/flresum.htm

News Releases

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE: February 27, 1997

CONTACT: Dick Kane (904) 488-3111

Florida Department of Transportation to Resume Highway Safety Memorial
Marker Program in March

TALLAHASSEE--The Florida Department of Transportation (FDOT) will
resume its highway safety memorial marker program by March 31 after
redesigning a new marker that continues the department's highway
safety awareness policy and allows people to memorialize the loss of a
friend or loved one killed in a vehicle-related crash.

"Right from the start, we've tried to reach a compromise between the
department's safety-related program and the sensitivities of the
community," said FDOT Secretary Ben Watts.

[I'd bet this was made in reference to Jewry: "Right from the start,
we've tried to reach a compromise between the department's
safety-related program and the sensitivities of the community,"
Read the rest of the articles below and draw your own educated
conclusions! Tavish comment.]

"We believe we've achieved that goal with our new marker that will
heighten the public's awareness of highway safety as they drive along
the state's roadways."

The newly-designed marker (see below) will replace existing,
unauthorized memorials on the state's rights of way only if requested
by family members or friends of a crash fatality victim. Although all
unauthorized memorials will continue to be removed, every effort will
be made to contact the family or friends of the crash victim to return
their personal memorial and give them the opportunity to request a
FDOT-installed marker.

The department suspended placing new markers along the state's
highways January 10 due to the concern of some Floridians who
perceived the previously designed marker to be a religious symbol
rather than an internationally recognized safety symbol as FDOT had
intended.

The new memorial markers will be allowed to remain for a minimum of
one year. However, they will not be permitted within the limits of
active construction zones.

......................................................................................................

Richard G. Philllips

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Feb 1, 1998, 3:00:00 AM2/1/98

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=================================
PHilllips

No doubt the poor dears are "offended" by the sight of all those
crosses. try to have a little sympathy. After all, you wouldn't want
people thinking you are "insensitive," would you?

==============================================
>
>

som...@somewhere.com

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Feb 1, 1998, 3:00:00 AM2/1/98

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On Mon, 02 Feb 1998 01:31:49 -0800, Gary Luke <fera...@zeta.org.au>
wrote:

>Doc Tavish wrote:
>
>> A solution is still being sought to the sensitive issue of religious
>> symbols around the museum. Jews oppose the presence of the Christian
>> crosses, while the Roman Catholic church says they commemorate the
>> suffering of all Auschwitz victims, Jews and Christians.
>

>> Read again the "bottom line" in the last paragraph which states: "Jews
>> oppose the presence of the Christian crosses.." What does this tell
>> you all?

In fact, here in Canada, the cursed Christkillers arranged to have the
Cross removed from the Remembrance Day ceremony!!!
From som...@somewhere.com Mon Nov 17 07:13:13 1997
Path: newsgate.direct.ca!usenet
From: som...@somewhere.com
Newsgroups: edm.general,ab.general,mtl.general,ns.general
Subject: JEWS Force Removal of Cross from Cenotaph!!!
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 14:13:13 GMT
Organization: Canada Internet Direct, Inc.
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In Edmonton Canada, JEWS forced the removal of the Cross from the
Cenotaph, commemmorating Remembrance Day.

Len Dolgoy, past president of the Jewish Federation of Edmonton, and
also the regional representative on the Canadian Jewish Congress, had
arranged for the removal of the Cross at the Remembrance day
celebrations.

The Strathcona Legion, represnting victims and their families fielded
many complaints, particularly from war widows and others who had lost
family members.

Mind you, the same JEWS do not mind that they will be having a 25 foot
scrap iron menorah cluttering up the lawn in front of the provincial
Parliament Buildings, to supposedly celebrate the JEW holiday of
Hannukah!!!!

It seems that the JEWs can have their religious symbol in front of the
public, but the Cross, representing the millions of Christians who
died, is not to be permitted!!!!
Judges, Lawyers and Politicians Need to be recycled - as Fertiliser

Richard G. Philllips

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Feb 1, 1998, 3:00:00 AM2/1/98

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som...@somewhere.com wrote:
>
> On Mon, 02 Feb 1998 01:31:49 -0800, Gary Luke <fera...@zeta.org.au>
> wrote:
>
> >Doc Tavish wrote:
> >

> >> A solution is still being sought to the sensitive issue of religious
> >> symbols around the museum. Jews oppose the presence of the Christian
> >> crosses, while the Roman Catholic church says they commemorate the
> >> suffering of all Auschwitz victims, Jews and Christians.
> >

> >> Read again the "bottom line" in the last paragraph which states: "Jews
> >> oppose the presence of the Christian crosses.." What does this tell
> >> you all?
>

==================================================
Phillips

Try to have a bit of sympathy for the poor dears and understnad that
they are "offended" by the sight of all those crosses. Now you would
not want to be thought of as "insensitive," would you?
=====================================

Joseph Hertzlinger

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Feb 1, 1998, 3:00:00 AM2/1/98

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In <34d6910d...@news.srv.ualberta.ca> som...@somewhere.com
writes:

>In fact, here in Canada, the cursed Christkillers arranged to have the
>Cross removed from the Remembrance Day ceremony!!!

Hmmmm....

If the purpose of crosses is to memorialize the klling of Christ.

And if we can be sure that the Jews killed Christ because the Talmud
says we hanged a magician named Yeshua in the days of Alexander Yannai.

Then we must replace the crosses with gallows.

Dr. Phlegming

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Feb 1, 1998, 3:00:00 AM2/1/98

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som...@somewhere.com wrote in message
<34d6910d...@news.srv.ualberta.ca>...

>On Mon, 02 Feb 1998 01:31:49 -0800, Gary Luke <fera...@zeta.org.au>
>wrote:
>
>>Doc Tavish wrote:
>>

>>> A solution is still being sought to the sensitive issue of religious
>>> symbols around the museum. Jews oppose the presence of the Christian
>>> crosses, while the Roman Catholic church says they commemorate the
>>> suffering of all Auschwitz victims, Jews and Christians.
>>

>>> Read again the "bottom line" in the last paragraph which states: "Jews
>>> oppose the presence of the Christian crosses.." What does this tell
>>> you all?

William "Gruber" Grosvenor absent for the last three days with a hangover
that could've toppled Goliath returns in a surly mood because he'd run out
of bourbon and regurgitates the same spam that got him thrown off his last
ISP:

>In fact, here in Canada, the cursed Christkillers arranged to have the
>Cross removed from the Remembrance Day ceremony!!!

<<the rest of Grosvenor's drunken rant snipped>> but it's been posted over a
hundred times on Usenet if you care to see it.

Doc Tavish

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Feb 1, 1998, 3:00:00 AM2/1/98

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http://www.shamash.org/jb/bk960726/ipoles.htm

Jews, Poles are still embroiled in altercations over Auschwitz

RUTH E. GRUBER

Jewish Telegraphic Agency

OSWIECIM, Poland -- Nobel laureate Elie Wiesel, in an emotional speech
delivered this month, called Auschwitz-Birkenau "the largest invisible
Jewish cemetery in history."

In the 50 years since the Holocaust, however, the former Nazi death
camp near the southern Polish town of Oswiecim has become the prime
symbol of humankind's evil side.

The Nazis killed at least 1.5 million people at Auschwitz. An
overwhelming majority were Jews.

[ ... ] (deleted details of a proposed shopping mall at Auschwitz)

Wiesel, an Auschwitz survivor, made an impassioned appeal this month
for the removal of seven 10-foot wooden crosses erected 12 years ago
by a Krakow group of non-Jewish and Jewish youths in a remote corner
of Birkenau where the ashes of victims were scattered.

Six-foot Stars of David are also scattered among the field's
chest-high weeds. At least one of the stars is crumbling.

At a ceremony marking the 50th anniversary of a 1946 Polish pogrom
that killed 42 Jews in the southern city of Kielce, Wiesel said,
"Birkenau is its own eloquent symbol. The chimneys, the ruins of the
crematoria. Nothing else should be there.

"With all due respect to all religions and all believers, the presence
of crosses on sacred soil covering multitudes of Jewish victims in
Birkenau was and remains an insult."

"There can be no justification for placing crosses over their
remains," he said. "Whoever did this may have been inspired by good
intentions, but the result is a disaster, a blasphemy."

Polish Catholics reacted immediately.

A statement by the Polish Episcopate's Commission for Dialogue with
the Jews read that the crosses served as a symbol of faith and
national resistance to the atheistic domination of both Nazi Germany
and the Communists.

"Therefore, an act against the cross, albeit unwitting and in good
faith, places the promoter of such an act on the side of those who
were both against the Jews and also against Christians," the statement
said.

The issue was the topic of heated discussion at a two-day session last
week of the International Council of the Auschwitz-Birkenau Museum,
the body charged with protecting the integrity of the Auschwitz
grounds.

In a statement, the council said it decided to authorize the council's
president, former Polish Foreign Minister Wladyslaw Bartoszewski --
himself an Auschwitz survivor -- "to pursue initiatives aimed at
finding solutions that would not hurt anybody's feelings." The council
remains divided on the monument issue, according to Kalman Sultanik,
one of its members and the vice president of the World Jewish
Congress.

Sultanik, also a Holocaust survivor, said he believed the crosses and
Stars of David should be removed. However, another council member said
there was concern that removing the crosses now could "cause unrest
and potentially dangerous conflict here."

JTA staff writer Alissa Kaplan in New York contributed to this report.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Doc Tavish

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Feb 1, 1998, 3:00:00 AM2/1/98

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http://news.bbc.co.uk/low/english/world/europe/newsid_37000/37555.stm

BBC News Online: World: Europe

Auschwitz religious symbols removed

Monday, December 8, 1997 Published at 07:39 GMT

The Polish authorities have taken down religious symbols at the former
Nazi death camp of Auschwitz, after years of protests by Jewish groups
at the presence of Christian crosses there.

Staff on Wednesday quietly removed eight wooden crosses and eleven
Stars of David which had been put up by Jewish protestors on the site
of a former gas chamber.

Thousands of mainly Hungarian Jews are thought to have died there.

The removal of the symbols has been welcomed by Jewish groups inside
and outside Poland.

The chairman of Poland's Council of Christian and Jews Stanislav
Krajewski said it was inappropriate to have anything but private
symbols at Auschwitz.

And the director of the Washington Holocaust Museum, Miles Lerman,
said the decision removed the last barrier to an agreement that would
preserve Auschwitz.

From the newsroom of the BBC World Service

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Let the anti-Christs whine and wail all they wish! As Mick Jagger once
sang: "You Can't Always Get What You Want!"

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

On Sun, 01 Feb 1998 01:06:34 GMT, doc_t...@nonspam.bigfoot.com (Doc
Tavish) wrote:

Gary Luke

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Feb 2, 1998, 3:00:00 AM2/2/98

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Doc Tavish wrote:

> A solution is still being sought to the sensitive issue of religious
> symbols around the museum. Jews oppose the presence of the Christian
> crosses, while the Roman Catholic church says they commemorate the
> suffering of all Auschwitz victims, Jews and Christians.

> Read again the "bottom line" in the last paragraph which states: "Jews

> oppose the presence of the Christian crosses.." What does this tell
> you all?

It tells us that it's still being discussed, and both parties are trying
to find a solution. That's a million times better than the long history
between the same two religions where jewish symbols were ripped up and
nobody though twice about it.

--
-= Gary =-

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
... Gary Luke fera...@zeta.org.au fax +61-2-9519.9907
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Alex Roman

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Feb 2, 1998, 3:00:00 AM2/2/98

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On Sun, 01 Feb 1998 15:14:52 GMT, som...@somewhere.com wrote:

I wonder if the Jews in Israel would put up with Christians demanding
that they take down their Stars Of David?

I wonder where the stereo-type of the fat-little, pushy-jew comes
from?

>On Mon, 02 Feb 1998 01:31:49 -0800, Gary Luke <fera...@zeta.org.au>
>wrote:
>
>>Doc Tavish wrote:
>>

>>> A solution is still being sought to the sensitive issue of religious
>>> symbols around the museum. Jews oppose the presence of the Christian
>>> crosses, while the Roman Catholic church says they commemorate the
>>> suffering of all Auschwitz victims, Jews and Christians.
>>

>>> Read again the "bottom line" in the last paragraph which states: "Jews
>>> oppose the presence of the Christian crosses.." What does this tell
>>> you all?
>

>In fact, here in Canada, the cursed Christkillers arranged to have the
>Cross removed from the Remembrance Day ceremony!!!

>Judges, Lawyers and Politicians Need to be recycled - as Fertiliser
>

Sincerely,
Alex Roman

Dr. Phlegming

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Feb 2, 1998, 3:00:00 AM2/2/98

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Alex Roman wrote in message <6b4vvi$5gr$1...@gte2.gte.net>...

>On Sun, 01 Feb 1998 15:14:52 GMT, som...@somewhere.com wrote:
>
>I wonder if the Jews in Israel would put up with Christians demanding
>that they take down their Stars Of David?
>
>I wonder where the stereo-type of the fat-little, pushy-jew comes
>from?
>

It comes from the bottom of the same bottle Willie Grosvenor guzzles from
with regularity.

Joel Rosenberg

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Feb 2, 1998, 3:00:00 AM2/2/98

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Alex Roman wrote in message <6b4vvi$5gr$1...@gte2.gte.net>...
>On Sun, 01 Feb 1998 15:14:52 GMT, som...@somewhere.com wrote:
>
>I wonder if the Jews in Israel would put up with Christians demanding
>that they take down their Stars Of David?
>

Nope. And how do you think the folks in Vatican City would put up with you
trashies demanding that they take down their crucifixes?

Alex Roman

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Feb 3, 1998, 3:00:00 AM2/3/98

to

I'm afraid that makes no sense.. You must have me confused with
someone else. Futhermore, I know of no Christian who are "offended" by
Jewish religious symbols.

Sincerely,
Alex Roman

som...@somewhere.com

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Feb 3, 1998, 3:00:00 AM2/3/98

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On Mon, 2 Feb 1998 16:58:57 -0600, "Joel Rosenberg"
<jo...@winternet.com> wrote:

>
>Alex Roman wrote in message <6b4vvi$5gr$1...@gte2.gte.net>...
>>On Sun, 01 Feb 1998 15:14:52 GMT, som...@somewhere.com wrote:
>>
>>I wonder if the Jews in Israel would put up with Christians demanding
>>that they take down their Stars Of David?
>>
>
>Nope. And how do you think the folks in Vatican City would put up with you
>trashies demanding that they take down their crucifixes?

It seems that all normal people, especially Christians, must kiss the
raers of the cursed Christkilling damned JEWS!!!

Dr. Phlegming

four...@no.spam.com wrote in article
<351c4aaa...@news.datanet.ab.ca>...

Besq

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Mar 22, 1998, 3:00:00 AM3/22/98

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I resent having that cross shoved in my face. It's idol worship, given
to us by that same "church" that gave us xmas (sun worship), easter
(ishtar) and man-made "saints". The cross is a symbol of the Roman
Empire, not Christianity, and I refuse to honor it or worship it.

Michael

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Mar 23, 1998, 3:00:00 AM3/23/98

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On 22 Mar 1998 17:51:39 GMT, "irgun1943" <irg...@earthlink.net> wrote:

>what the hell does this have to do with Isarel?
> go sit on your cross
> irgun1943

You tell us what the Holocaust(tm) and WWII has to do with Israel.

Reginald Higham Cornelius McTavish

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Mar 25, 1998, 3:00:00 AM3/25/98

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I had just posted this piece and made the comment:

[I'd bet this was made in reference to Jewry: "Right from the start,
we've tried to reach a compromise between the department's
safety-related program and the sensitivities of the community,"
Read the rest of the articles below and draw your own educated
conclusions! Tavish comment.]

And low and behold I found that my suspicions were right on target! I
offer proof right after the following article. In the words of Jews
themselves let them be judged!

.....................................................................................

http://home1.gte.net/imago2/fllaws.html

Florida Laws

[ ... ] Director's deleted

News Releases

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Confirmation that Jewry agitated to have roadside crosses taken down
in Florida!

http://www.shamash.org/jb/bk970117/usscraps.htm

[Link was active 1/31/98]

Florida scraps plan to erect crosses at car-death sites

WASHINGTON (JTA) -- In response to the Florida Jewish community's
complaints of insensitivity, the state's Department of Transportation
has scrapped plans to use a cross as its official roadside memorial
marker.

In a state that is home to some of the most treacherous roads in the
country, the transportation department decided last year to begin
clearing away some of the shrines erected at the sites of traffic
fatalities.

Saying that some of the elaborate homemade markers were potential road
hazards, Florida decided to begin using a cross, similar to a Red
Cross emblem, as a universal memorial symbol.

Jewish groups charged that the symbol too closely resembled the
Christian cross and urged the state to either adopt a nonsectarian
symbol or be prepared to honor requests from people of different
faiths.

"We felt this policy trampled on the rights of all non-Christians,
that it offended many who are Christian and don't believe the state
should be in the memorial business, and that it violated the spirit
and possibly the letter of the First Amendment," said Jack Lipsey,
president of the American Jewish Committee's South Central Florida
region.

Under the policy, implemented Jan. 1 and dropped last week, Jewish
families would have been barred from erecting Stars of David at
accident sites in memory of loved ones.

Florida abandoned the policy in the face of objections from Jewish and
civil liberties organizations. There were also threats of a lawsuit.

"It was never our intention to offend anyone with our new policy," Ben
Watts, Florida's secretary of transportation, said in a statement. "We
simply want to make motorists more aware of highway safety when they
drive by the memorial markers."

The department will now attempt to design a new memorial marker, Watts
said. Proposals include a simple wooden post with room for a plaque.

Jack Karako, southeast regional director of the American Jewish
Congress, said he still questions whether the state should be in the
business of using taxpayer money to erect highway memorials.

He said, however, that as long as no one has any objection, "certainly
a nondenominational marker is something that's probably a good
compromise that will not offend anyone else."

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

More Jewish whining and cry baby tactics:

http://www.sddt.com/files/librarywire/97wireheadlines/03_97/DN97_03_05/DN97_03_05_1am.html

March 05, 1997

[ ... ]

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Doc Tavish in constant battle with the hideous Serpent!

Reginald Higham Cornelius McTavish

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Mar 25, 1998, 3:00:00 AM3/25/98

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On Sun, 01 Feb 1998 01:06:34 GMT, doc_t...@nonspam.bigfoot.com (Doc
Tavish) wrote:

.........................................................................................
New- Florida Laws on Roadside Memorials.

http://home1.gte.net/imago2/fllaws.html

Florida Laws

[ ... ] Director's deleted

News Releases

......................................................................................................

http://www.sddt.com/files/librarywire/97wireheadlines/03_97/DN97_03_05/DN97_03_05_1am.html

>More on the situation concerning Jewish bigotry toward Christian