Holocaust - Non-Jewish Holocaust Victims
Kosher Cunny
Holocaust - Non-Jewish Holocaust Victims
Raised by parents who had survived the Holocaust, I heard many stories about
the atrocities of this World War II horror. I learned how one of my family's
homes in Poland was burned to the ground by Nazis. I learned that my uncle
was shot in the head by Nazi soldiers because his family was hiding a Jewish
woman. Painful as it was for them to speak about it, my parents [Frank and
Ewa Pencak] felt it was important that I knew the stories of the Holocaust
It was only after I moved to the Los Angeles area several years ago that I
realized that many people were not aware that millions of victims of the
Holocaust were NOT Jewish. Outside the Polish community, I heard very little
mention about the five million non-Jewish victims -- usually referred to as
"the others".
Whenever I mentioned that my parents were survivors of the Holocaust, people
would look at me oddly and say, "Oh, I didn't know you were Jewish?"
I realized that most people were not aware of any other Holocaust victims
except Jews.
I am Jewish. I converted in 1978 after studying at the University of Judaism
one year before marrying a Jewish man. I belong to a temple where my
daughter attends religious school. I love the Jewish religion and I admire
the Jewish community. In no way do I want to diminish the enormous magnitude
of the victimization and murder of the 5,860,000 Jewish people. The Jews
were singled out by the Nazis for total extermination -- a significant fact
that I do not repudiate, nor want to diminish in any way. The Jewish people
have done an extraordinary job of making the younger generation around the
world aware of their persecution and the immense tragedy of the Holocaust.
But what about "the others"? There were five million of them. Who were they?
Whose children, whose mothers and fathers were they? How could five million
human beings have been killed and forgotten?
After studying carefully-documented books, and interviewing non-Jewish
survivors, I found more information about the five million forgotten than I
had ever imagined -- information that most people are not aware of. Polish
citizens suffered enormously during the Holocaust -- Jews and non-Jews.
Eleven million precious lives were lost during the Holocaust of World War
II. Six million of these were Polish citizens. Half of these Polish citizens
were non-Jews.
While there is no argument that Hitler abhorred the Jews and caused...
million(s) to be ruthlessly killed, often non-Jewish victims are tragically
forgotten from Holocaust remembrances. Eleven million precious human lives
were lost during the Holocaust. Five million of these were non-Jewish. Three
million were Polish Christians and Catholics. It would be very sad to forget
even one precious life extinguished so ruthlessly. It would be a tragedy to
forget five million.
-© 1997 - 2008 - Terese Pencak Schwartz
Topaz
"The orthodox holocaust story can not possibly be defended with
rational arguments because its absurdity is overwhelming. We are asked
to believe in the fata morgana of a vast slaughter in killing
factories which left no traces whatsoever - no documents, no bones, no
teeth, no ashes - nothing! We are further asked to believe that the
Allies, who had a large network of informers all over Europe and a spy
in the German leadership (Admiral Canaris, the head of the German
intelligence), did not become aware of this gigantic genocide until
the end of the war, for if they had known about the mass murder, they
would have acted to stop it. Finally, we are asked to believe that the
Jews in Poland, the epicentre of the holocaust, did not know anything
about the Auschwitz gas chambers as late as in August 1944, otherwise
the Jews from the Lodz ghetto would not have gone to Auschwitz
voluntarily - which is precisely what they did, as related by Raul
Hilberg in his standard work about the holocaust (Die Vernichtung der
europaeischen Juden, p. 543/544).
As the Zionist-controlled system of the "Western democracies" is
woefully unable to counter the revisionists with arguments, it resorts
to censorship and brute force in order to silence the dangerous
heretics. And the Jews are gradually transforming the holocaust into a
religion. This is a very clever strategy, for as Robert Faurisson
aptly remarks, one cannot refute a religion with scientific arguments.
Thus, the holocaust museums and holocaust monuments spreading like
mushrooms all over America and Europe are really temples of the new
religion, whereas professional "holocaust survivors" such as Elie
Wiesel are the priests of the new religion. To prove this assertion,
we only have to quote Wiesel himself: "The Holocaust is a holy
mystery, the secret of which is limited to the circle of the
priesthood of survivors" (Peter Novick, The Holocaust in American
Life, 1999, p. 211, 212, retranslated from the German). Another high
priest of the holocaust cult, Simon Wiesenthal, goes even further:
"When each of us comes before the Six Million, we will be asked what
we did with our lives... I will say: I did not forget you" (Simon
Wiesenthal in Response, Vol. 20, Nr. 1).
No critical questions about the holocaust are allowed because they are
a blasphemy: They cause immense distress to the eternal victims of
persecution, the Jews, and are an attempt to whitewash National
Socialism - the most evil ideology of all times which made the
holocaust possible! In today's Germany, it is even considered
inadmissible to compare the holocaust with the atrocities of communist
tyrants such as Stalin or Cambodian dictator Pol Pot because this is
regarded as a "relativisation" and "trivialization" of the worst crime
in history.
French Zionist propagandist Claude Lanzmann, the producer of a long
and unspeakably dull film about the holocaust (the title of this film
is Shoa, the Hebrew word for "catastrophe", which is often used by
Jews as a synonym for "holocaust") makes no effort to conceal that the
holocaust cult is to replace Christianity:
"If Auschwitz is something other than a horror of history, then
Christianity totters in its foundations. Christ is the Son of God, who
went to the end of the humanely endurable, where he endured the
cruellest suffering. (...) If Auschwitz is true, then there is a human
suffering with which that of Christ simply cannot be compared. (...)
In this case, Christ is false, and salvation will not come from him.
(...) Auschwitz is the refutation of Christ." (Les temps modernes,
Paris, December 1993, p. 132, 133.)
Nowadays, a large percentage of the Jews do not believe in God any
more, but virtually all of them believe in the Six Million. The
Zionist leadership cunningly exploits the holocaust to unite the
World's Jews by keeping them in a constant state of hysteria and
persecution mania, insinuating that only if the Jews stick together
will they be able to ban the threat of a new holocaust.
It goes without saying that very few Non-Jews are willing to embrace
the murky holocaust religion. While the overwhelming majority of
people in the West still believe that the official holocaust version
is essentially true (even if they suspect that the figures might me
somewhat inflated), they are thoroughly fed up with the eternal
lamentation about Jewish victims and Jewish suffering. They simply
don't want to hear it any more. In Germany, opinion polls showed that
a vast majority of the population was against the planned holocaust
monument in Berlin (which not a single major party, not a single
leading politician and not a single big newspaper dared to oppose).
Privately, the politicians are probably as profoundly disgusted with
the endless holocaust litany as the rest of the population, but they
cannot possibly afford to let the revisionists win because this would
shatter the very foundations of the "democratic" system to which they
own their careers and their wealth...
The ultimate weapon against Zionism and the state of Israel
At the end of the year 2000, Israel is a besieged country, but from
the military point of view, it is still vastly superior to its
neighbours, and it enjoys the unconditional support of the United
States. Should any of the Islamic states grow strong enough to
seriously threaten Israel, it would most probably be attacked and
militarily annihilated by America. Russia is not likely to risk a
confrontation with the USA for the sake of the Palestinians. We can
certainly admire the bravery of the Palestinians resistance fighters
who are willing to sacrifice their lives to liberate their homeland
from the alien intruders, but realistically, they have no chance to
win. The Palestinians have stones and slings. The Israelis have
helicopters and tanks. You can't destroy helicopters and tanks with
stones and slings.
When fighting one's enemy, one should always look for his weakest
spot. The weakest spot of Israel, its Achilles heel, is the holocaust
lie to which it owes its existence. The revisionists can give the
adversaries of Israel and international Zionism a terrible weapon. It
is quite true that many revisionists are by no means guided by
political considerations. Some of them - Carlo Mattogno is a good
example - are only motivated by intellectual curiosity: They want to
ascertain what really happened to the Jews during the Second World
War. But even if revisionism is not a political movement, its
political implications are tremendous. The revisionists are
endeavouring to find out the truth, and truth is the deadliest enemy
of Israel and international Jewry. Thus, the revisionists objectively
work against Israel and Zionism, even if subjectively their goals are
often purely scientific and devoid of any political ambition. This is,
of course, the reason why they are persecuted and their books burnt in
more and more countries.
In view of the total Jewish media control and the ever-growing
anti-revisionist repression in many Western countries, it is very
difficult indeed to achieve a revisionist breakthrough. We
revisionists are facing an uphill struggle which can only partly be
explained by our total lack of financial resources. Fortunately the
internet, which the Jews are unable to censure, has greatly improved
our possibilities to make the results of our research known to the
World, but all the same, we should not cherish naive illusions: Not
every citizen of the Western world who is informed about the
revisionist arguments will automatically become revisionist and
anti-Zionist. The average person in the West - and particularly in
Germany - has been so thoroughly brainwashed that a sudden exposure to
the truth can provoke a nervous breakdown or stomach cramps. I have
repeatedly witnessed this myself. Other people would gladly accept the
truth about the holocaust, but as they know that even the slightest
suspicion of revisionism leads to social ostracism, economic ruin and
legal persecution, they understandably prefer not to get involved.
However, if we want to win the war against those whom one of my
Russian friends called "the enemies of God and mankind"..
The logical consequence of all this is that those countries which are
authentically anti-Zionist and real friends of the oppressed
Palestinian people should make the breakthrough of holocaust
revisionism their foremost priority. A tank costs millions of dollars,
yet one soldier can destroy it with a single missile. The revisionists
can provide anti-Zionist freedom fighters with a weapon not even a
thousand missiles can destroy."
http://www.ihr.org/ http://www.natvan.com
LIBERATOR
Just beautiful work Topaz.
It would be valuable to mention that the concentration camps were
literally like resorts - swimming pools, broadway theaters, athletic
facilities, all proven by David Coles video, yet somehow this was
missed by the world and isn't included on the tour of the camps.
If Adolf Hitler was Thomas Jefferson, it shows in the way these
"prisoners" - these plundering thieving usurers that create poverty
and unemployment purposely, were treated kindly and like they were on
a resort.
The Jews measure of vile evil can be understood by the holocaust lie
and how innocent people are demonized into sadistic mass murderers and
the Jews are banking on this bigtime - to fund their country Israel is
why it was done. That Jews would do that to other humans to finance
their vitality by bankrupting others vitality in a country that they
stole the land from the actual natives, is pure evil.
Germans have paid the price excruciatingly for a crime they did not
commit, but in fact treated the Jews well in the camps. The allies
murdered the Jewish prisoners and blamed it on the Germans and then
bankrupt them on the staged crime so the stolen country can exist.
Evil is in its purest form in the presence of the living Jew.
Kenneth McVay OBC
LIBERATOR <noge...@linuxmail.org> wrote:
[claptrap flushed down the vangel, rush ng removed]
>It would be valuable to mention that the concentration camps were
>literally like resorts - swimming pools, broadway theaters, athletic
>facilities, all proven by David Coles video, yet somehow this was
>missed by the world and isn't included on the tour of the camps.
David Cole denounced his own video - funny you forgot to mention that.
And he only visited Auschwitz, and he lied about what Dr. Piper had to
say.
You really shouldn't make such an ass of yourself over something so easy
to dismiss as racist hate propaganda.
--
The Nizkor Project - An electronic Holocaust educational resource
David Irving vrs. Deborah Lipstadt & Penguin Books Ltd: Judgment
http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/i/irving-david/judgment-00-00.html
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/people/i/irving.david/libel.suit
LIBERATOR
> In article <0e6aa1b2-d98d-42e1-a438-9e36fc09b...@c58g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>,
>
> LIBERATOR <nogeek...@linuxmail.org> wrote:
>
> [claptrap flushed down the vangel, rush ng removed]
>
> >It would be valuable to mention that the concentration camps were
> >literally like resorts - swimming pools, broadway theaters, athletic
> >facilities, all proven by David Coles video, yet somehow this was
> >missed by the world and isn't included on the tour of the camps.
>
> David Cole denounced his own video - funny you forgot to mention that.
THe video can't be denounced and he was threatened and has been
murdered because of it.
No one can denounce that video it's solid fact and irrefuteable.
> And he only visited Auschwitz, and he lied about what Dr. Piper had to
> say.
Only visited Auschwitz? What does that mean? Uh, please answer the
question - was there both a broadway theater and a swimming pool at
the camp - yes or no?
Was there an athletic field and facilities for recreation? Yes or no?
> You really shouldn't make such an ass of yourself over something so easy
> to dismiss as racist hate propaganda.
I'll goto KungFuPanda with you if you say you're sorry and admit
you're lying.
But first answer yes or no to the questions I asked above about the
swimming pool, theater, athletics, & so on.
I'll Always Be Here
news:ZqydnXZXO5b0c9DV...@vex.net:
> In article
> <0e6aa1b2-d98d-42e1...@c58g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>,
> LIBERATOR <noge...@linuxmail.org> wrote:
>
> [claptrap flushed down the vangel, rush ng removed]
>
>>It would be valuable to mention that the concentration camps were
>>literally like resorts - swimming pools, broadway theaters, athletic
>>facilities, all proven by David Coles video, yet somehow this was
>>missed by the world and isn't included on the tour of the camps.
>
> David Cole denounced his own video - funny you forgot to mention that.
>
> And he only visited Auschwitz, and he lied about what Dr. Piper had to
> say.
>
> You really shouldn't make such an ass of yourself over something so easy
> to dismiss as racist hate propaganda.
>
> http://www.nizkor.org
>
>
cue kurt knoll.
Kenneth McVay OBC
LIBERATOR <jgch...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>On Jun 9, 9:00 pm, kmc...@shell.vex.net (Kenneth McVay OBC) wrote:
>> In article <0e6aa1b2-d98d-42e1-a438-9e36fc09b...@c58g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>,
>>
>> LIBERATOR <nogeek...@linuxmail.org> wrote:
>>
>> [claptrap flushed down the vangel, rush ng removed]
>>
>> >It would be valuable to mention that the concentration camps were
>> >literally like resorts - swimming pools, broadway theaters, athletic
>> >facilities, all proven by David Coles video, yet somehow this was
>> >missed by the world and isn't included on the tour of the camps.
>>
>> David Cole denounced his own video - funny you forgot to mention that.
>
>THe video can't be denounced and he was threatened and has been
>murdered because of it.
That will come as a bit of a shock to David Cole.
>No one can denounce that video it's solid fact and irrefuteable.
Bullshit. The only people who think it's "solid fact and irrefutable" are
racist morons like you.
rchive/File: people/p/piper.franciszek/press/daily.texan.1093
Last-Modified: 2007/02/08
ogwiqcim,
October21,1993
Dr Franciszek Piper
Pa'nstwowe Muzeum
32-603 Ogwiecim -Poland
Texas School Publications
University of Texas
P.O.Box D
Austin,Texas 78713-8904
U S A
Dear Sirs,
In connection with an advertisement of David Cole (An open
letter to the daily Texan, February 19, 1993) in which he offers
the videotape named "David Cole - Interviews Dr Franciszek
Piper" I would like to inform your readers:
1. the sham interview with me there is the Neonazi
style monologue of young man who never seriously approached the great
tragedy of humanity named Auschwitz and Holocaust. In his
ingenuousness he decided to halt the part of the murderers
instead of their innocent victims - different every
honest man does. My answers on a few questions of Cole ( who
deceitfully introduced himself as a man who wanted to convince his
acquaintances in America that Auschwitz was really a place of
genocide) constitute a small proportion of this video tape.
2. In his advertisement he introduces me as a "Head of
Auschwitz Archives at the Auschwitz State Museum". This is
untruth. I am not and I have been neither a head of Auschwitz Archives
nor a director of Auschwitz Musum, as Cole maintains in
other propaganda leaflets. The purpose of such manipulation
with of facts is clear - to attract potential purchasers of his
"Interview" video tape.
3. Cole maintains that I first time admitted the allegedly
unknown fact the Nazis adapted the crematorium in question in
which the gas chamber were located for air-raid shelter, the fact
allegedly unknown even for Museum guides. It is un truth. See
enclosed copies of pages from the books which constitute the
fundamental reading for Auschwitz guides. In book by T-an Sehn
"Concentrat Camp Ogwiqcim-Brzezinka (Auschwitz-Birkenau)Warsaw 1957,
You may read on the page 152-"In May 1944 the old Crematorium
I in the base camp was adapted for use as an air raid shelter
The Fact is also confirmed in the book by Jean Claude Pressac
"Auschwitz: Technique and operation of the gas chambers,
published by The Beate Klarsfeld Foundation, New York 1989 (515
Madison Avenue). On the page 157 you may read: "With part of the
building converted to an air raid shelter, this is the state in which
the SS abandoned Krematorium I in January 1945" Repeating what
Pressac had written I told what was the nature of the
adaptation works carried out by the Nazis and what one had to do to
remove those changes in order to regain the previous appearance.
They are all "Pipers revelations. In spite of the fact that
such secondary restoration works had to be done there is an
undisputable reality that the gas chamber in question is housed in the
same
building which has been existed from prewar times till now.
4. The fact that the Nazi murderers used gas chambers (in
Birkenau you can see the ruins of the other 5 gas chambers) for
mass annihilation of innocent men, women and children, mostly
Jews, has been proved by thousands of memoires and depositions of
eyewitnesses as well as by German official documents and plans.
It is obvious fact for everybody who wants to approach the
problem, to contact still living witnesses and to study historical
sources.
5. I have devoted 28 years of my life to save the memory of
the counless victims of the Nazi barbarity to warn people against
indifference to all forms of racial, religious and national
based hatered, which leads to injustice, suffering and killing
of innocent people. Because of it I take the fact my name is
used for disseminating such kind of lies and hiding of the obvious
truth as a lack of honesty and dignity.
yours,sincerely
DrFranciszek Piper
PS Send me please the copy ofyour magazine in which my letter will be
published
[transcription note: Dr. Piper's first language is Polish, not
English, and the letter reads awkwardly. knm]
...and here's Mr. Cole's recantation:
THE STATEMENT OF DAVID COLE
Prepared January 2, 1998
This statement is given in an attempt to set the record
straight about my current views regarding the Holocaust and
Holocaust denial. As anyone who follows the subject of
Holocaust denial knows, from 1991 until 1994 I was well
known in the movement as a Jewish Holocaust denier [a
self-described "revisionist"]. For the last three years I
have no longer been associated with this movement, having
realized that I was wrong and that the path I was taking
with my life was self-destructive and hurtful to others. I
have spent the last few years in silence on the subject of
my time with the denial movement, a silence caused mainly by
my shame at what I had done with my life and my desire to
distance myself from that life.
However, in that shame-induced silence, it has now been
brought to my attention that I have not gone as far as I
should have to make a clear and complete public statement in
order to set the record straight as to where I stand.
It is my great hope that this statement accomplishes that
task.
I would like to state for the record that there is no
question in my mind that during the Holocaust of Europe's
Jews during World War Two, the Nazis employed gas chambers
in an attempt to commit genocide against the Jews. At camps
in both Eastern and Western Europe, Jews were murdered in
gas chambers which employed such poison gasses as Zyklon B
and carbon monoxide (in the Auschwitz camp, for example, the
gas chambers used Zyklon B). The evidence for this is
overwhelming and unmistakable.
The Nazis intended to kill all the Jews of Europe, and the
final death toll of this attempted genocide was six million.
This atrocity, unique in its scope and breadth, must never
be forgotten.
During my four years as a denier, I was wracked with
self-hate and loathing, a afact that many of my critics were
quick to point out. Indeed, this self-hatred was obvious to
most, but I was too blind to see it. The hate I had for
myself I took out on my people. I was seduced by
pseudo-historical nonsense and clever-sounding but empty
ideas and catch-phrases. When my eyes were finally opened,
thanks to several good, kind friends who had refused to give
up on me even when I was at my worst, I was horrified at
what I had done. My instinct was to flee and never look
back, but I now understand that I owe it to the people I
wronged to make a forceful repudiation of my earlier views.
I also owe a very large apology, not only to the many people
I enraged, and to the friends and family I hurt, but
especially to the survivors of the Holocaust, who deserve
only our respect and compassion, not re-victimization.
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/people/c/cole.david/images/cole-recants-03.gif
Therefore, to all of the above people, let me offer my most
humble and very, very sincere apology. I am sorry for what I
did, and I am sorry for the hurt I caused.
And just as I must set the record straight concerning my
views, it is also incumbent on me to set the record
straight regarding the video "documentaries" and media
appearances I did from 1991 to 1994. These "documentaries"
are merely videotaped garbage filled with self-hatred and
pseudo-intellectual nonsense. My "media appearances" were
nothing but an embarrassment. My glazed look, specious
reasoning, and talking-in-circles during my talk show
appearances would have hopefully alerted any astute views
that this was a man not in touch with reality.
It has been brought to my attention that Bradley Smith is
still using one of my videos in advertisements he is running
on college campuses. Therefore, I would like to make these
additional points: This video is being advertised without my
consent, and I denouce this video as being without worth.
Bradley Smith is no historian, and denial is no "historical
field." Students on college campuses should look elsewhere
to find out about the Holocaust. To these students I would
say, look to books like Professor Raul Hilberg's
"Destruction of the European Jews," Leni Yahil's "The
Holocaust," and Lucy Dawidowicz's "The War Against the Jews"
for correct information. If your school library doesn't
stock these books, have them order copies. Do not pay any
attention to any "David Cole" videos, except to rightly
denounce them as frauds.
I am thankful for being given the opportunity to make this
statement. This statement is made freely and under no
duress, and is quite willingly, even happily, given to Mr.
Irv Rubin of the Jewish Defense League for the widest
possible distribution. This statement is the most current
and accurate compilation of my views, and it supersedes any
previous writings, videos, or statements. It is my hope that
there will be no more confusion as to where I stand. I thank
you for letting me set the record straight.
[/s] David Cole
Subscribed and sworn to before me on January 5, 1998.
[/Mary Stewart]
[Notary seal]
--
"Streicher commit suicide while in the Nuremberg Jail But you
people did hang him after that"
(Kurt Knoll, Kitimat, B.C.'s Leading Revisionist Moron)
The Nizkor Project: http://www.nizkor.org/
Eugene Holman
<0e6aa1b2-d98d-42e1...@c58g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>,
LIBERATOR <noge...@linuxmail.org> wrote:
> On Jun 9, 7:20=A0pm, Topaz <mars1...@hotmail.com> wrote:
<deletions>
> It would be valuable to mention that the concentration camps were
> literally like resorts - swimming pools, broadway theaters, athletic
> facilities, all proven by David Coles video, yet somehow this was
> missed by the world and isn't included on the tour of the camps.
Auschwitz was not a typical concentration camp. Neither was it run like a
resort. For details, see
http://www.wsg-hist.uni-linz.ac.at/auschwitz/HTML/Alltag.html.
It was primarily a forced labor camp, with subsidiary transit and
extermination functions.
Intended to accommodate 150,000 detainees at a time, it had the population
of a medium-sized city. Intended also to provide the German military
economy with various products and services, it is hardly surprising that
the authorities running the camp went to some effort to rovide the
detainees, who were not criminals but rather were in the camp because of
their racial background or political views, with some kinf of diversion.
Anybody running a prison knows that facilities such as libraries,
gymnasiums, and the like are important outlets for the detainees surplus
energy. The stick combined with the carrot provide a better means of
manipulation than two sticks.
<deletions>
Regards,
Eugene Holman
B.H. Cramer
"Eugene Holman" <hol...@mappi.helsinki.fi> wrote in message
news:holman-1006...@ke-hupnet13-26.hupnet.helsinki.fi...
> In article
> <0e6aa1b2-d98d-42e1...@c58g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>,
> LIBERATOR <noge...@linuxmail.org> wrote:
>
>> On Jun 9, 7:20=A0pm, Topaz <mars1...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> <deletions>
>
>> It would be valuable to mention that the concentration camps were
>> literally like resorts - swimming pools, broadway theaters, athletic
>> facilities, all proven by David Coles video, yet somehow this was
>> missed by the world and isn't included on the tour of the camps.
>
> Auschwitz was not a typical concentration camp. Neither was it run like a
> resort. For details, see
> http://www.wsg-hist.uni-linz.ac.at/auschwitz/HTML/Alltag.html.
>
> It was primarily a forced labor camp, with subsidiary transit and
> extermination functions.
Forget the extermination functions. That's b'ullshit.
Here's a photograph of one of the workshops. Looks pretty good to me.
http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh28/BenCramer1/Auschw14.jpg
Kurt Knoll
on vacation and everybody did have to do some work. Ask the German prisoners
civilian and military alike that were prisoners in France and Russia they
can tell you all about. For your holocaust industries to say in the
limelight you have to distort and exaggerate all your facts. We have seen
many exaggerated posting from your side. As for your documentation I would
say was seen also many so called documents. How can anyone compare your
accusations who can not be verified with the originals simply because the
Germans never did have full access to all your facts.
Kurt Knoll.
"Eugene Holman" <hol...@mappi.helsinki.fi> wrote in message
news:holman-1006...@ke-hupnet13-26.hupnet.helsinki.fi...
jj
"Kenneth McVay OBC" <kmc...@shell.vex.net> wrote in message
news:ZqydnXZXO5b0c9DV...@vex.net...
Deborah sold a story to penguin that was contradiocted by Rassinier who was
in the camps.
But who wants to listen to these people who were in the camps and would not
take the right line after all penguin books should know ? From Deborah..
SCREAM
jj
"Eugene Holman" <hol...@mappi.helsinki.fi> wrote in message
news:holman-1006...@ke-hupnet13-26.hupnet.helsinki.fi...
> <0e6aa1b2-d98d-42e1...@c58g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>,
> LIBERATOR <noge...@linuxmail.org> wrote:
>
>> On Jun 9, 7:20=A0pm, Topaz <mars1...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> <deletions>
>
>> It would be valuable to mention that the concentration camps were
>> literally like resorts - swimming pools, broadway theaters, athletic
>> facilities, all proven by David Coles video, yet somehow this was
>> missed by the world and isn't included on the tour of the camps.
>
> Auschwitz was not a typical concentration camp. Neither was it run like a
> resort. For details, see
> http://www.wsg-hist.uni-linz.ac.at/auschwitz/HTML/Alltag.html.
The false photos of starving prisoners, not false but the condition of the
German population as well, just ask WW@ soldiers how easy it was to have a
German if U had food to offer.
SCREAM
Kenneth McVay OBC
jj <j...@mm.com> wrote:
[...]
>Deborah sold a story to penguin that was contradiocted by Rassinier who was
>in the camps.
Rassinier was never in Birkenau, or any other extermination facility, but
feel free to play again.
--
"People want to know all the facts whatever they are true
or not." (Kurt Knoll, Kitimat's Leading Revisionist Scholar
and all-round moron.)
Kenneth McVay OBC
jj <j...@mm.com> wrote:
[...]
>The false photos of starving prisoners, not false but the condition of the
>German population as well, just ask WW@ soldiers how easy it was to have a
>German if U had food to offer.
Please view the following film, taken by the British on the occasion of
the liberation of Bergen-Belsen, and explain why the German civilians and
the camp's SS staff were fat and healthy while the inmates were obviously
in the final stages of chronic starvation.
Go ahead, take your time. Compare the SS staff and German civilians and
justify your assertion as to the, er, "condition of the German population
as well."
http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/camps/bergen-belsen/Bergen-Belsen-00.html
http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/camps/bergen-belsen/Bergen-Belsen-01.html
PS - Don't give up your day job. As a Leading Revisionist Scholar, you
suck.
--
"Streicher commit suicide while in the Nuremberg Jail But you
people did hang him after that"
(Kurt Knoll, Kitimat, B.C.'s Leading Revisionist Moron)
Eugene Holman
<Iamhre@them'oment.bizz> wrote:
> "Eugene Holman" <hol...@mappi.helsinki.fi> wrote in message
> news:holman-1006...@ke-hupnet13-26.hupnet.helsinki.fi...
<deletions>
> >
> >> It would be valuable to mention that the concentration camps were
> >> literally like resorts - swimming pools, broadway theaters, athletic
> >> facilities, all proven by David Coles video, yet somehow this was
> >> missed by the world and isn't included on the tour of the camps.
> >
> > Auschwitz was not a typical concentration camp. Neither was it run like a
> > resort. For details, see
> > http://www.wsg-hist.uni-linz.ac.at/auschwitz/HTML/Alltag.html.
> >
> > It was primarily a forced labor camp, with subsidiary transit and
> > extermination functions.
>
> Forget the extermination functions. That's b'ullshit.
No it's not. And one does not research histroy by merely forgetting the
facts that one would rather not subscribe to.
> Here's a photograph of one of the workshops. Looks pretty good to me.
>
> http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh28/BenCramer1/Auschw14.jpg
They should have been good. They were producing things needed by the
Wehrmacht. Why on earth should the workshops have been substandard? The
subset of people deported to Auschwitz who had passed the *Selektion* and
been registered in the camp's records ans trained to do a specific job
efficiently were an investment.
<deletions>
Regards,
Eugene Holman
I'll Always Be Here
news:e7u3k.19668$gc5.235@pd7urf2no:
> There you go Eugene. I have never seen a prison camp where the prisoner
> were on vacation and everybody did have to do some work.
Then you obviously have not done much research on the matter, which is not
surprising, because you make this stuff up.
Ask the German
> prisoners civilian and military alike that were prisoners in France and
> Russia they can tell you all about. For your holocaust industries to say
> in the limelight you have to distort and exaggerate all your facts. We
> have seen many exaggerated posting from your side.
We have seen that every post you make is a lie.
As for your
> documentation I would say was seen also many so called documents. How
> can anyone compare your accusations who can not be verified with the
> originals simply because the Germans never did have full access to all
> your facts. Kurt Knoll.
The germans do have access to the documents. Just because yo are too lazy
and stupid to access them, that doesn't mean others are as stupid and lazy
as you.
How is that these Germans had complete access to all the documents?
You are not only lying, but doing so intentionally, because you know full
well that German historians of the Functionalist and Intentionalist
schools have debated - and thus criticized - Holocaust historiography for
decades.
See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Functionalism_versus_intentionalism for
details.
Historians like Hans Mommsen, a member of the Social Democratic Party of
Germany who has taught at Tuebingen and Bochum, Martin Broszat (Cologne,
and the IFZ, Munich), Andreas Hillgruber (d. 1989, having taught at
Marburg, Freiburg and Cologne)...
Karl Bracher (Berlin, Bonn - Wikipedia says, "Bracher has often
CRITICIZED the functionist-structuralist interpretation of the Third
Reich championed by such scholars such as Martin Broszat and Hans
Mommsen, and decried their view of Hitler as a 'weak dictator'. In
Bracher's view, Hitler was the 'Master of the Third Reich'. With respect
to the genesis of the Holocaust, he is a confirmed Intentionalist. It is
his position that the entire project of the genocide of European Jewry
resulted from Adolf Hitler's anti-Semitic hatred."), Klaus Hildebrand
(Bonn)...
Eberhard Jaeckel (Stuttgart - Wikipedia says, "J„ckel is one of the
leading Intentionalists in regard to the Functionalism versus
Intentionalism debate, arguing from the 1960s on that there was a long
range plan on the part of Hitler to
exterminate the Jewish people from about 1924 on, views that led to
INTENSE DEBATES with Functionalist
historians such as Hans Mommsen and Martin Broszat.Recently, J„ckel has
modified his position. He now
believes that most of the initiatives for the Holocaust came from Hitler,
though it was more the result of a series
of ad hoc decisions rather a masterplan on the part of Hitler. In the
Historikerstreit (Historians' Dispute) of the
1986- 1988, J„ckel was a prominent critic of Ernst Nolte, whose theory of
Nazi crimes as a reaction to Soviet
crimes was denounced as ahistorical by J„ckel under the grounds that
Hitler held the Soviet Union in contempt
and therefore could
not have possibly felt threatened by the Soviets as Nolte suggested.")...
LIBERATOR
> "Eugene Holman" <hol...@mappi.helsinki.fi> wrote in message
>
> news:holman-1006...@ke-hupnet13-26.hupnet.helsinki.fi...
>
>
>
>
>
> > In article
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Note there is no armed guard or no military dressed personnel. The
prisoners had very free reign and were not monitored. The camp was a
resort and the only armed guards were at the entrances and in towers.
That was it. It was a city within a city and the Fuhrer made a video
"The Fuhrer gave the Jews a town".
Eugene Holman
<839f3d3b-376a-4b5b...@j33g2000pri.googlegroups.com>,
LIBERATOR <noge...@linuxmail.org> wrote:
> On Jun 10, 5:37=A0am, "B.H. Cramer" <Iamhre@them'oment.bizz> wrote:
> > "Eugene Holman" <hol...@mappi.helsinki.fi> wrote in message
<deletions>
>
> Note there is no armed guard or no military dressed personnel.
The Nazis had figured out that the most efficient way to police the place
was to have prisoners themselves (Kapos) do the administrative work at the
lowest levels.
> The
> prisoners had very free reign and were not monitored.
Except if they tried to escape or did not fulfill their norms...
> The camp was a
> resort
No it wasn't. Being forced to wake up at 4 AM. an eleven-hour work day six
or seven days a week, summary execution for failure to fulfill norms or
other offences, a 1,700 calorie diet with minimal protein if the
prisoners were lucky and otherwise inhumane accommodations meant
malnutrition and disease. For details, see
http://www.wsg-hist.uni-linz.ac.at/auschwitz/HTML/Alltag.html.
> and the only armed guards were at the entrances and in towers.
Who would shoot anybody suspected of an infraction.
> That was it. It was a city within a city and the Fuhrer made a video
> "The Fuhrer gave the Jews a town".
It was indeed a city within a city: a city of slave laborers, most of them
doomed to their fate due to their having been born Jews or Gypsies in
countries like Greece, Norway, Slovakia, or Hungary.
Regards,
Eugene Holman
B.H. Cramer
> In article <SsmdnYQP6p3x-tPV...@giganews.com>, "B.H. Cramer"
> <Iamhre@them'oment.bizz> wrote:
>
>> "Eugene Holman" <hol...@mappi.helsinki.fi> wrote in message
>> news:holman-1006...@ke-hupnet13-26.hupnet.helsinki.fi...
>
> <deletions>
>> >
>> >> It would be valuable to mention that the concentration camps were
>> >> literally like resorts - swimming pools, broadway theaters, athletic
>> >> facilities, all proven by David Coles video, yet somehow this was
>> >> missed by the world and isn't included on the tour of the camps.
>> >
>> > Auschwitz was not a typical concentration camp. Neither was it run like
>> > a
>> > resort. For details, see
>> > http://www.wsg-hist.uni-linz.ac.at/auschwitz/HTML/Alltag.html.
>> >
>> > It was primarily a forced labor camp, with subsidiary transit and
>> > extermination functions.
>>
>> Forget the extermination functions. That's b'ullshit.
>
> No it's not.
Certainly is.
You, being such a high level academic and all, should know that all such
stories must be supported by tested evidence and proof.
B.H. Cramer
> In article
> <839f3d3b-376a-4b5b...@j33g2000pri.googlegroups.com>,
> LIBERATOR <noge...@linuxmail.org> wrote:
>
>> On Jun 10, 5:37=A0am, "B.H. Cramer" <Iamhre@them'oment.bizz> wrote:
>> > "Eugene Holman" <hol...@mappi.helsinki.fi> wrote in message
> <deletions>
>>
>> Note there is no armed guard or no military dressed personnel.
>
> The Nazis had figured out that the most efficient way to police the place
> was to have prisoners themselves (Kapos) do the administrative work at the
> lowest levels.
>
>> The
>> prisoners had very free reign and were not monitored.
>
> Except if they tried to escape or did not fulfill their norms...
>
>> The camp was a
>> resort
>
> No it wasn't. Being forced to wake up at 4 AM. an eleven-hour work day six
> or seven days a week,
And what the fuck is so hard about that, tosspot? You've obviously never
worked outside the goddamned education system.
Eugene Holman
<Iamhre@them'oment.bizz> wrote:
> "Eugene Holman" <hol...@mappi.helsinki.fi> wrote in message
> news:holman-1006...@mobile-hupnet30-156.hupnet.helsinki.fi...
> > In article <SsmdnYQP6p3x-tPV...@giganews.com>, "B.H. Cramer"
> > <Iamhre@them'oment.bizz> wrote:
> >
> >> "Eugene Holman" <hol...@mappi.helsinki.fi> wrote in message
> >> news:holman-1006...@ke-hupnet13-26.hupnet.helsinki.fi...
> >
> > <deletions>
> >> >
> >> >> It would be valuable to mention that the concentration camps were
> >> >> literally like resorts - swimming pools, broadway theaters, athletic
> >> >> facilities, all proven by David Coles video, yet somehow this was
> >> >> missed by the world and isn't included on the tour of the camps.
> >> >
> >> > Auschwitz was not a typical concentration camp. Neither was it run like
> >> > a
> >> > resort. For details, see
> >> > http://www.wsg-hist.uni-linz.ac.at/auschwitz/HTML/Alltag.html.
> >> >
> >> > It was primarily a forced labor camp, with subsidiary transit and
> >> > extermination functions.
> >>
> >> Forget the extermination functions. That's b'ullshit.
> >
> > No it's not.
>
> Certainly is.
>
> You, being such a high level academic and all, should know that all such
> stories must be supported by tested evidence and proof.
We are not dealing with "stories".
We are dealing with:
1. Eyewitness expert testimony given by perpetrators under oath or under
conditions where telling the truth would not be to their disadvatage, i.e.
http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/nuremberg/hoesstest.html
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/people/m/muench.hans/swedish-television-interview
2. Testimony given by unwilling participants, i.e.
http://www.mazal.org/archive/documents/Tauber/Tauber01.htm
3. Detailed drawings of the process made by an unwilling participant:
http://fcit.usf.edu/HOLOCAUST/Resource/gallery/Olere.htm
4. The results of forensic testing, i.e. the discussion of and links to
the forensic tests performed at the sites of the Auschwitz gas chambers
at:
http://www.holocaust-history.org/auschwitz/chemistry/#iv
5. A massive and detailed study of all the evidence available about the
Auscwitz gas chambers as of 1989:
http://www.holocaust-history.org/auschwitz/pressac/technique-and-operation/
6. Additional evidence based on construction plans and blueprints for the
gas chambers showing last-minute modifications revealing criminal intent
in recently discovered architectural archives at Auschwitz:
http://www.antiqbook.com/boox/bkcoun/5892X1.shtml
That has sufficed as evidence for British, Polish, Canadian, West German,
and Israeli courts. For discussion, see e.g.
http://www.cambridge.org/uk/catalogue/catalogue.asp?isbn=0521844061. Note
that we are not talking here about taking judicial notice. The trials in
Hamburg, Cracow, Frankfurt, and Jerusalem all involved confrontations
between perpetrators and victims of various sorts, and forensic evidence
was one of the kids of evidence produced. At no such trial as a defendant
*ever* based his defense on the claim that there were no gas chambers at
Auschwitz or that gassings did not take place there.
The gas chamber issue has been blown all out of proportion by the
imbecilities peddled to the gullible by the likes of Robert Faursson, the
literealist, and Fred Leuchter, the self-styled American gas chamber
expert.
Faurisson works on the assumption that a Nazi gas chamber has to have the
defining attributes of an American penal gas chamber, and since no such
structure is known to have existed or to have been found at Auschwitz, he
concludes, that gassings nevertheless did take place there, and that all
the evidence, even though obtained independently, from different sources,
and at different times, is false.
Leuchter, too, works on the assumption that a gas chamber must have the
attributes of an American penal gas chamber, in addition to which he
assumes that the Nazis would have followed the legal and procedural norms
followed in the United States for executions by gas in the 1980s when they
were gassing people under quite different circumstances and for different
reasons during the 1940s. Leuchter's logic is often quite extraordinary.
For example, he concludes that carbon monoxide is unsuitable as an
execution gas because people locked in a sealed room and forced to breathe
it would suffocate due to the lack of fresh air before the gas killed
them. He eviidently does not understand that the idea is not to kill the
victims specifically with the carbon monoxide, but rather to have them all
dead when the door is reopened. For this purpose no lethal gas is actually
needed at all, but the introduction of carbon monoxide would put the
victims to sleep and make their death by whatever means more merciful.
Thus, I agree with Faurisson and Leuchter: there were no American-type
penal gas chambers at Auschwitz. Nevertheless, any sturdily built room
with the ventilation turned off and doors and windows both tightly sealed
and unopenable from the inside can be used as an environment for killing
the people trapped in it and forced to breathe air into which a lethal
agent has been introduced.
The technique and operation of the Auscwhitz gas chambers was disarmingly
simple: do precisely the same thing that you would do during the first
half hour of disinfecting a room with Zyklon-B, but pack the room with
people. Then, do precisely the same thing that you would do during the
final half hour of a fumigation with Zyklon-B to dissipate the cyanide.
According to the tests reported on in Irmscher 1942, almost 100% of the
cyanide contained in Zyklon-B will be released during the first hour at
15°C, with the rate of release increasing remarkably at higher
temperatures. The ambient air in a room packed with people would rapidly
rise above 15° C. Since the object of the exercise is not to kill the
people with the cyanide generated by Zyklon-B or to observe any legal or
procedural niceties, when the door is opened an hour after the beginning
of the process, the people in the chamber will all be dead: some from
cyanide poisoning, some from asphyxiation, the smallest and weakest ones
from being crushed in the pandemonium to break out, and a few from heart
attacks caused by the realization of what was happening to them.
The fact that thousands of people die every year in gas accidents taking
place in perfectly ordinary living rooms with poorly maintained
fireplaces, kitchens, garages, cars, mines, wells, and the holds of ships,
in theater auditoriums (the Dubrovka tragedy in Moscow), subway stations
(the 1995 gas attack in the Tokyo subway system), and, if enough gas is
used, even outdoors (Bhopal, Halabja) demonstrates the speciousness of
Fred leuchter's claim that it is difficult and expensive to kill people
using poison gas. Anyone who has been in a crowded elevator in which
someone farts, in a room with a Limburger cheese, or at an indoor occasion
where a can of Swedish fermented herring (surströmming) is opened knows
how rapidly the content of the ambient air in an enclosed space can be
affected by the introduction of a gas.
That is the reality of the Auschwitz gas chamber.
Regards,
Eugene Holman
Eugene Holman
<Iamhre@them'oment.bizz> wrote:
> "Eugene Holman" <hol...@mappi.helsinki.fi> wrote in message
> news:holman-1106...@c518-m3.eng.helsinki.fi...
<deletions>
> >
> > No it wasn't. Being forced to wake up at 4 AM. an eleven-hour work day six
> > or seven days a week,
>
> And what the fuck is so hard about that, tosspot? You've obviously never
> worked outside the goddamned education system.
For starters, it's not a very nice regime to impose on people solely
because you have invaded their country, defined them as having been born
your racial inferiors, uprooted and deported tham, killed most of their
family, and decided that they should repay you for your kindness by doing
slave labor for you. Not very nice at all.
<deletions>
Regards,
Eugene Holman
B.H. Cramer
I'm not. You are.
B.H. Cramer
> In article <WcydnRsEy8Zt8NLV...@giganews.com>, "B.H. Cramer"
> <Iamhre@them'oment.bizz> wrote:
>
>> "Eugene Holman" <hol...@mappi.helsinki.fi> wrote in message
>> news:holman-1106...@c518-m3.eng.helsinki.fi...
>
> <deletions>
>> >
>> > No it wasn't. Being forced to wake up at 4 AM. an eleven-hour work day
>> > six
>> > or seven days a week,
>>
>> And what the fuck is so hard about that, tosspot? You've obviously never
>> worked outside the goddamned education system.
>
> For starters, it's not a very nice regime to impose on people solely
> because you have invaded their country,
Tell that to the hebes in Palestine.
>defined them as having been born
> your racial inferiors,
That too.
>uprooted and deported tham,
And that.
>killed most of their
> family,
And that too. (ignoring your exaggeration)
>and decided that they should repay you for your kindness by doing
> slave labor for you.
And also that.
Your hebes have managed to adopt Nazi methodology and ideology with panache,
old feller. Brilliant scholars, them.
Eugene Holman
<Iamhre@them'oment.bizz> wrote:
> "Eugene Holman" <hol...@mappi.helsinki.fi> wrote in message
> news:holman-1106...@ke-hupnet13-26.hupnet.helsinki.fi...
<deletions>
> >> You, being such a high level academic and all, should know that all such
> >> stories must be supported by tested evidence and proof.
> >
> > We are not dealing with "stories".
>
> I'm not. You are.
Tell it to the judges in Nuremberg, Hamburg, Cracow, Jerusalem, and
Frankfurt-am-Main.
They found the testimony, supported by the forensic and other evidence
convincing enough to pass some rather severe sentences.
Tell it to the defendants at the various trials dealing with Auschwitz,
both immediately after the war as well as two decades later.
Not a single one of them argued that the gassings did not take place,
rather their defense was *always* that they were implementing or
participating in gassings, the methodology of which some of them described
in minute detail, because they were following orders.
Tell it to the historians. They have found clear links pertaining to the
methodology, administration, and personnel between the T-4 and 14f13
euthanasia programs, Chelmno, the three Aktion Reinhard death camps,
Belzec, Sobibor, and Treblinka, Auschwitz, and Majdanek.
The only "evidence" that has ever been brought forth was the imbecilic
claims of Robert Faurisson and Fred Leuchter that the ruins of alleged gas
chambers at Auschwitz and Majdanek could not have been used as gas
chambers because there is no evidence that they have or have had the
attributes of American penal gas chambers, and the even more imbecilic
claim that carbon monoxide and Zyklon-B are unsuitable lethal agents for
gassing people.
If what you claim is correct:
1. Why did none of the people accused of having participated in the
gassings base his defense on the argument that the gassings at Auschwitz
and other alleged gassing camps and euthanasia facilities (e.g. Belzec,
Bernburg, Brandenburg, Chelmno, Dachau, Grafeneck, Hadamar, Hartheim
Castle, Majdanek, Mauthausen, Natzweiler, Nordhausen, Ravensbrück,
Sobibor, Sonnenstein, Stutthof, Treblinka) never took place because there
were no gas chambers at any of them?
2. Where did the traces of exposure to lethal concentrations of cyanide in
the ruins of structures other evidence indicates were gas chambers come
from?
3. Why did nobody charged with having been involved with gassing claim
that the forensic evidence had been doctored or falsified?
4. Where did the RSHA documents concerning the design, structure, staff,
and maintenance of the euthanasia centers and camps with extermination
facilities come from?
5. Why was SS doctor Hans Münch, a hygiene inspector at Auschwitz who
witnesses testified did as much as humanly possible to prevent people from
being selected for gassing, acquitted at the Cracow Auschwitz trial?
6. Why did former Sonderkommando member Henryk Tauber give a detailed
description of the gassing procedure in his deposition that is consistent
with the expert witness testimony given by former Auschwitz commandant
Rudolf Hoess?
7. What motivated former Sonderkommando member David Olère to create his
detailed paintings of the gassings, paintings that are consistent down to
small details with the testimony given by Tauber and Hoess?
8. Why did the updated construction diagrams for Krema II at
Auschwitz-Birkenau replace the body chute connecting the ground floor to
the basement where the gas chambers were with a spiral staircase?
9. Why did Fred Leuchter claim that carbon monoxide, which kills thousands
of people annually in gassing accidents, is unsuitable as an execution
gas?
10. Why do deniers, such as yourself, claim that Zyklon-B, which is
routinely used to fumigate perfectly ordinary rooms with concentrations of
cyanide more than fifty times higher than what is needed to kill people
within a few minutes, could not have been used to kill the people trapped
in a sturdily constructed room and forcced to breathe it?
Regards,
Eugene Holman
B.H. Cramer
"Eugene Holman" <hol...@mappi.helsinki.fi> wrote in message
news:holman-1106...@ke-hupnet13-26.hupnet.helsinki.fi...
> In article <fLSdnYKRkI9JOdLV...@giganews.com>, "B.H. Cramer"
> <Iamhre@them'oment.bizz> wrote:
>
>> "Eugene Holman" <hol...@mappi.helsinki.fi> wrote in message
>> news:holman-1106...@ke-hupnet13-26.hupnet.helsinki.fi...
>
> <deletions>
>
>> >> You, being such a high level academic and all, should know that all
>> >> such
>> >> stories must be supported by tested evidence and proof.
>> >
>> > We are not dealing with "stories".
>>
>> I'm not. You are.
>
> Tell it to the judges in Nuremberg, Hamburg, Cracow, Jerusalem, and
> Frankfurt-am-Main.
>
> They found the testimony, supported by the forensic and other evidence
> convincing enough to pass some rather severe sentences.
Horseshit.
Taken on judicial notice, idiot.
In case you miss the OP, cop this, laddie. And try to worm your way out of
this conundrum.
Just watched a documentary on SBS television Australia about the "Happy
Snaps" of Germans at Auschwitz, found in an album of photographs given to
the US Holocaust Museum in 2007.
An archivist from the museum, Rebecca Erbelding, stated when speaking of the
Adjutant to the Commandant of Auschwitz:
His job was to know everything before the commandant did and ,umm, to make
sure things ran smoothly for his boss. The other jobs he had was to
supervise the team of women... They were the telecommunications specialists.
They were in charge of all communications inside and out of the camp, so
every time a transport came in, ah ah, a group of jews came in on a train,
they would be in charge of saying this many people came in, this number was
selected for forced labour and this number was selected for the gas
chambers, AND HE WOULD SIGN OFF ON THAT BEFORE IT WAS TELEGRAMMED TO BERLIN,
so he absolutely knew everything that was going on.
Now - I was led to believe by the expert Holocaust(tm) shills there NO
records of those people sent directly to the gas chambers. The Holocaust(tm)
story NEEDS that to be true, otherwise their story is just another jewish
fantasy.
WHERE ARE THESE TELEGRAMS?
What the fuck gives here?
The official figures from the Nazi archives shows the following:
Total non-Jews in Auschwitz, 1940-1944: 161,685
Sources: CSA No. 187603: Roll 281-1940: Frames 107-869-Roll 282-1940-41:
Frames 001-875-Roll 283-1941-42:Frames 001-872-Roll 284-1942-43: Frames
003-862-Roll 285-1943-44: Frames 019-852- Roll 286-1945: Frames 001-329.
///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
Total Jews in Auschwitz, 1941-1944: 173,000
Total number of inmates in Auschwitz, 1940-1944
334,785
Sources: CSA No. 187603: -Roll 282-1940-41: Frames 001-875-Roll
283-1941-42:Frames 001-872-Roll 284-1942-43: Frames 003-862-Roll
285-1943-44: Frames 019-852.
///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
Total deaths by typhus in Auschwitz, 1941-1944
103,447
Sources: CSA No. 187603: 1940-41: Frames 001-875-Roll 283-1941-42:Frames
001-872-Roll 284-1942-43: Frames 003-862-Roll 285-1943-44: Frames 019-852-
Roll 286.
/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
Total Jewish deaths by typhus in Auschwitz, 1942-1944
58,240
Total non-Jewish deaths by typhus in Auschwitz, 1940-1944
45,207
Sources: CSA No. 187603: Roll 283-1941-42:Frames 001-872-Roll 284-1942-43:
Frames 003-862-Roll 285-1943-44: Frames 019-852.
//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
Death by natural causes (other than typhus), 1940-1944
4,140
Sources: CSA No. 187603: Roll 281-1940: Frames 107-869-Roll 282-1940-41:
Frames 001-875-Roll 283-1941-42:Frames 001-872-Roll 284-1942-43: Frames
003-862-Roll 285-1943-44: Frames 019-852- Roll 286.
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
Total Jewish deaths by natural causes (other than typhus), 1941-1944
2,064
Sources: CSA No. 187603: 1940-41: Frames 001-875-Roll 283-1941-42:Frames
001-872-Roll 284-1942-43: Frames 003-862-Roll 285-1943-44: Frames 019-852-
Roll 286.
/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
Total transferred from Auschwitz, 1940-1944
121,453
Sources: CSA No. 187603: Roll 281-1940: Frames 107-869-Roll 282-1940-41:
Frames 001-875-Roll 283-1941-42:Frames 001-872-Roll 284-1942-43: Frames
003-862-Roll 285-1943-44: Frames 019-852.
Transfers of Jews from Auschwitz, 1941-1944
/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
Total number of Jews transferred from Auschwitz, 1941-1944
100,743
Sources: CSA No. 187603: 1940-41: Frames 001-875-Roll 283-1941-42:Frames
001-872-Roll 284-1942-43: Frames 003-862-Roll 285-1943-44: Frames 019-852-
Roll 286.
/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
Total number of Hungarian Jews entering Auschwitz, May-October, 1944:
23,117
Total number of Hungarian Jews transferred from Auschwitz, May-October,
1944: 21,527
Total number of Hungarian Jews remaining in Auschwitz after October, 1944:
1,590
Sources: CSA No. 187603: Roll 285-1943-44: Frames 019-852- Roll 286-1945:
Frames 001-329
///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
SUMMATION: From July, 1941 through October, 1944
Total number of Jewish prisoners in the Auschwitz camp system: 173,000
Total number of Jewish prisoners who died of typhus: 58,240
Total number of Jewish prisoners who died of natural causes: 2,064
Total number of Jewish prisoners transferred to other camps: 100,743
Total number of Jewish prisoners executed: 117
Total number of Jewish prisoners in camp after German evacuation on January
15, 1945: 11,839
Sources: CSA No. 187603: Roll 281-1940: Frames 107-869-Roll 282-1940-41:
Frames 001-875-Roll 283-1941-42:Frames 001-872-Roll 284-1942-43: Frames
003-862-Roll 285-1943-44: Frames 019-852- Roll 286-1945: Frames 001-329.
Who is lying here? The shiela from the US Holocaust Museum, the
Holocaust(tm) industry shills, or the official Nazi records.
http://video.sbs.com.au/player/news/index.php?mmid=11755&chid=13
Eugene Holman
<Iamhre@them'oment.bizz> wrote:
> "Eugene Holman" <hol...@mappi.helsinki.fi> wrote in message
> news:holman-1106...@ke-hupnet13-26.hupnet.helsinki.fi...
> > In article <fLSdnYKRkI9JOdLV...@giganews.com>, "B.H. Cramer"
> > <Iamhre@them'oment.bizz> wrote:
> >
> >> "Eugene Holman" <hol...@mappi.helsinki.fi> wrote in message
> >> news:holman-1106...@ke-hupnet13-26.hupnet.helsinki.fi...
> >
> > <deletions>
> >
> >> >> You, being such a high level academic and all, should know that all
> >> >> such
> >> >> stories must be supported by tested evidence and proof.
> >> >
> >> > We are not dealing with "stories".
> >>
> >> I'm not. You are.
> >
> > Tell it to the judges in Nuremberg, Hamburg, Cracow, Jerusalem, and
> > Frankfurt-am-Main.
> >
> > They found the testimony, supported by the forensic and other evidence
> > convincing enough to pass some rather severe sentences.
>
> Horseshit.
>
> Taken on judicial notice, idiot.
Wrong.
The first major trial was that of Zyklon-B manufacturers and suppliers,
Dr. Bruno Tesch, Karl Weinbacher, and Joachim Drosihn. It took place at
the British Military Court in Hamburg, British occupation zone of Germany,
from March 1st to March 8, 1946. The evidence produced by the prosecution
included eyewitness testimony. Among it was testimony by Wilhelm Bahr, "an
ex-medical orderly at Neuengamme, who described a prussic acid course
which he had attended in the S.S. Hospital at Oranienburg in 1942, and
which Dr. Tesch had conducted. He said that he himself had gassed two
hundred Russian prisoners of war in Neuengamme in 1942, using prussic acid
gas, but that it was not Dr. Tesch who had taught him the procedure which
he had applied."
(Source: http://www.ess.uwe.ac.uk/WCC/zyklonb.htm#EVIDENCE).
None of the defendants contested the factuality of the use of the cyanide
generated by Zyklon-B to kill concentration camp inmates at
Auschwitz-Birkenau and other facilities run by the SS, nor did they
contest their role as accomplices to the killings carried out with this
substance by manufacturing and selling it to the SS even though they knew
what it was being used for.
This is not "judicial notice". This is an open-and-shut case of
accessories to a crime being tried and convicted.
The next major trial pertaining to Auschwitz was that of RSHA head Ernst
Kaltenbrunner in Nuremberg in April 1946. Kaltenbrunner's defense team
called on the recently apprehended former Auschwitz commandant Rudolf
Hoess to testify as an expert witness for them. Hoess testified in
considerable detail about the gassings and the procedure for implementing
it, and Kaltenbrunner's defense team did not contest anything that he had
to say about the gas chambers and the gassing procedure. Hoess's expert
witness testimony can be read here:
http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/nuremberg/hoesstest.html.
This is not "judicial notice". This was a case in which an important part
of the evidence was provided by an authoritative expert witness, and in
which the defendant did not contest the factuality of the expert witness's
testimony about the gassing procedure or the existence of the gas
chambers.
The third major trial Auschwitz trial took place in Cracow Poland from
November 24 until December 22, 1947. There, forty-one senior SS personnel
who had served at Auschwitz, including former camp commandant Rudolf Hoess
and SS physician Hans Münch, who had served as a hygiene inspector, were
tried. The evidence presented to the court included survivor testimony,
the results of a forensic examination carried out by the Polish
authorities on the ventilation system of structures other evidence had
been gas chambers, and testimony by the defendants.
Source: http://www.holocaust-history.org/auschwitz/chemistry/#iv
<quote>
<deletions>
IV. History of Forensic Reports
From shortly after the war to the present there have been a number of
forensic analyses conducted on facilities at Auschwitz-Birkenau including
legitimate investigations as well as those conducted by Holocaust deniers.
This section will give a brief history of those reports. Section V. will
address in more detail the chemistry involved. In 1945 the Cracow Forensic
Institute did a forensic analysis of the criminal traces left by the
murderers. Pressac summarizes some of their findings:
Toxicological analysis were carried out in 1945 by the Cracow Forensic
Institute (7 Copernicus street) on 4 complete plates and 2 damaged
ventilation orifices found in the ruins of Krematorium II. After scraping
the white substance that covered these objects back to the metal, 7.2
grammes of scrapings were collected and subjected to two qualitative
analysis, which established the presence of cyanide compounds. The report,
signed by Dr. Jan Z. Robel, was written on 15th December, 1945 and
transmitted to the Examining Judge, Jan Sehn. 24
Strzelecki describes other early forensic examinations including the following:
In 1945, an examination by the Institute of Judicial Expertise in
Krakow of a sample of hair found in Auschwitz revealed the presence of
compounds of prussic acid, the basic component of Zyklon B gas used in the
gas chambers of Auschwitz. Traces of the acid were also found in metal
objects found in the hair, such as pins, clasps, and gold-plated spectacle
holders. 25
*************************
[ 23. Jean-Claude Pressac with R.-J. Van Pelt, "The Machinery of Mass
Murder at Auschwitz", in Anatomy, op. cit. pp. 183-245, notes in square
brackets mine- RJG.]
24. Jean-Claude Pressac, Technique, op. cit., p. 233, emphasis Pressac's.
25. Andrzej Strzelecki, "The Plunder of the Victims and Their Corpses",
in Anatomy, op. cit., p. 261.
<deletions>
</quote>
The existence of gas chambers or of lethal gassings was never challenged
by the defense. Testimony by survivors was found convincing enough by the
court for it to acquit one of the defendants, Dr. Hans Münch, because he
was found to have done everything humanly possible to minimize the number
of people selected for gassing when 'Seletionen* were carried out. The
other defendants received punishments ranging from fifteen years in prison
to death. The full record of the trial is available at
http://www.ess.uwe.ac.uk/WCC/hoess.htm and
http://www.ess.uwe.ac.uk/WCC/hoess2.htm.
Source: http://www.ess.uwe.ac.uk/WCC/hoess.htm
<quote>
<deletions>
2. THE CASE AND EVIDENCE FOR THE PROSECUTION
<deletions>
The camp was devised as a central concentration camp and was equipped with
the largest and most efficient technical installations for the
extermination of people. The highest capacity of its gas-chambers amounted
to killing of 60,000 people per 24 hours and that of the crematoria to
burning of 24,000 bodies per 24 hours.
<deletions>
</quote>
The sentences handed down by the court were not based on judicial notice,
but rather on the testimony of survivors, and purpetrators as well as on
German documents and the results of forensic analysis.
<deletions>
Regards,
Eugene Holman
Topaz
McVay OBC) wrote:
>
>David Cole denounced his own video - funny you forgot to mention that.
>
After being attacked by the JDL.
Topaz
These pictures show the true conditions of the German internment
camps. The inmates were adequately provided for - up until the Allies
started a blockade of Germany.
There were libraries, swimming pools, postal service and even dental
clinics at these camps. Also there was a brothel for the inmates (not
used by the German officers).
Camp inmates could play soccer, garden, paint, play in the orchestra
or knit. Pictures of the inmates on release taken by the Soviets in
this video show normal-looking individuals, not starved or sickly.
Those who were usually looked like that because of typhus (a disease
rife in internment camps and prisons at that time).
The Holocaust is a giant propaganda exercise by the Jews and it is no
wonder they have made it illegal in half the western world to discuss
it - it would be shown as the fraud it is!
This site: http://www.onethirdoftheholocaust.com/ is an excellent site
of 30 short videos which refute the myths of the Holocaust.
Also go to this site to look at the pictures in this video more
clearly.
http://papermacheworld.wordpress.com/
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2325961736902436224
Topaz
Holocaust heavyweight Rudolf Vrba, under cross-examination in a
Canadian courtroom, states under oath that 150,000 French Jews were
gassed at Auschwitz, in spite of the fact that the entire number of
Jews deported from France were only 75,721. Vrba claims he arrived at
his count "scientifically" by having listened to the language spoken
by the inmates at Auschwitz and examining their luggage (!). The
author of "I Cannot Forgive" next confessed that his book was "an
artistic picture ... not a document for a court," in spite of the fact
that Vrba's testimony was crucial to both the War Refugee Board and
the Auschwitz Trials in West Germany. Vrba further admitted that his
written and pictorial descriptions of Auschwitz crematoria were a
result of guessing, based on "what I heard it might look like." Oops!
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth,
he will either quit being mistaken or cease being honest.
Topaz
"I have heard evidence and read documentary proofs to the effect that
the accused persons were beaten up, maltreated and physically tortured
by methods which could only be conceived by sick brains. They were
subjected to mock trials and pretended executions, they were told that
their families would be deprived of their ration cards. All these
things were carried out with the approval of the Public Prosecutor to
secure the psychological atmosphere necessary for the extortion of the
required confessions. If the United States lets such acts committed by
a few people go unpunished, then the whole world can rightly criticize
us severely and forever doubt the correctness of our motives and our
moral integrity."
Topaz
http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v04/v04p261_Lindsey.html#note59
Dr. Tesch first became aware of his impending ordeal with the United
Nations Occupation Authorities when a British Captain, Anton W. Freud,
visited him in his office with Emil Sehm, one of his former
bookkeepers, and interrogated him in German. At this meeting, Sehm
accused his former employer of supplying Zyklon B to kill Jews. Dr.
Tesch denied the accusation emphatically, and accused Sehm of knowing
full well that Zyklon B was used only in pest-control. Dr. Tesch was
left in peace for a few days, but on 3 September 1945, he was arrested
and interrogated further before being released on 1 October 1945. On 6
October 1945, he was re-arrested by the British and remained
thereafter in their custody until his execution. On 31 October 1945,
Dr. Tesch signed a deposition. It was taken in the standard British
manner with oral translation from German into English. These
on-the-spot oral translations were written down and became the
official-and only-record. Afterward, Captain Freud said that the
deposition was signed voluntarily and Dr. Tesch had signed after only
minor changes. But Dr. Tesch testified later that he had signed only
because he "felt under some pressure" and after receiving an
indication that later, other explanatory changes in the deposition
would be made. It is not difficult to believe that any German being
interrogated at this time on this subject by a British officer named
"Freud" might, indeed, feel "under some pressure."
On the basis of Captain Freud's interrogations, the British War Crimes
officials decided to prosecute Dr. Tesch, Herr Weinbacher and Dr.
Joachim Drosihn. A British Military Tribunal was accordingly ordered
convened by Sir Henry MacGeagh. C. L. Stirling, who already had served
as Judge Advocate at the British trial of the Birkenau SS staff at
Lueneburg was again named Judge Advocate. R. B. L. Persee was named
President and Lt. Col. Sir Geoffrey Palmer and Major S. M. Johnson
were named as members of the Tribunal. Capt. H. S. Marshall was
designated as a waiting member.
On Friday, 1 March 1946, the Tribunal convened in Curiohaus, Hamburg.
It was a trial that had to be held if the "Holocaust" allegations were
ever to be anything more than malevolent tales conjured up by
imaginative, vengeful inmates, escapees, war propagandists, and so
forth, all with sinister, self-serving motivations and intents. It was
a time during which Germany's recent conquerors were frantically
scrambling to find the bricks with which to erect the all-absolving
"Holocaust" edifice they needed so desperately. It was a desperation
born of a compelling urgency to justify their own past and future acts
in Germany and elsewhere throughout the world as world powers, and to
secure permanently the undisputed mastery of Germany and Central
Europe which they enjoyed in 1945 as a result of the bloody
conflagration.
It must be pointed out that, regarding anything said in German (or
French) at the Tribunal, we at this later date are at the mercy of the
three translators and the three court reporters as to the accuracy of
the translations and of the record. All Tribunal records were kept in
English.
In accordance with decrees of the United Nations Occupation Forces, no
former members of the NSDAP might practice law. Therefore all defense
attorneys had to be free-in the minds of the prosecuting victors at
least-of the slightest hint of NSDAP taint. In practice, potential
difficulties were usually avoided by the tribunals' allowing only
attorneys with actual anti-NSDAP histories to defend the accused. The
defense attorneys were therefore from the beginning politically and
ideologically hostile to those they were to defend! Alternatively,
the accused could have elected to be defended by a British officer as
was done in Lueneburg at the trial of the Birkenau SS staff. (With the
result that most of these were executed!) Civilian English attorneys
were at this time strongly discouraged if not forbidden from acting in
defense of German nationals in United Nations war crimes tribunals.
The German (anti-NSDAP) defense personnel, many of whom did not
comprehend English fully, were required to follow British court
procedure which was totally foreign to them. Their handicap was often
so apparent that Major G. I. D. Draper, the British prosecutor, and
even the British Judge Advocate, C. L. Stirling, felt compelled at
times to ask the Defense if they did not have questions at particular
points. This was a strange trial indeed. It should also be borne in
mind that in the German law of the Third Reich, the prosecution was
obligated by law to present any evidence in its possession which was
favorable to the defendant. In the post-World War II war crimes trials
in Germany, this was emphatically not the case. When queried on this
point at Nuremberg by the German defense, the American prosecutor,
Robert H. Jackson, stated that so allowing would entail the
Prosecution's "serving two masters"! The realistic objective of the
United Nations prosecutors was not one of finding facts and arriving
at verdicts justified by those facts but that of obtaining, by
whatever means necessary, the testimony and evidence vital to support
a preordained verdict. The well-known precepts of the Vishinsky-Moscow
Trials were thus brought from the banks of the Moskva to the banks of
the Regnitz….
Dr. Tesch admitted his connection with Zyklon B and its commercial
development, as a result of his efforts, into a useful, effective
fumigant. He discussed its use in fumigation chambers to fumigate
clothing and the necessity of simultaneous bathing to kill body lice
if people were being deloused . to prevent typhus epidemics. In this
regard, he pointed out that Gentiles and Jews from the eastern regions
were equally afflicted with typhus-carrying lice. He denied
vehemently, however, every time he was questioned about it, ever
having recommended or known of the use of Zyklon B to purposely kill
humans. On the contrary, he emphasized, his efforts had always been,
rather, to protect humans and save their lives! In spite of all safety
precautions, there had been regrettable accidents while using the
lethal material, but in no way had there ever been, to his knowledge,
intentional killings. If he had learned Zyklon B was being misused to
kill people, he would have stopped ordering the material for the
offending user immediately…
In his cross-examination, the British Military Prosecutor, Major
Draper, was obviously more interested in the political implications of
the trial rather than in whether Dr. Tesch actually was guilty of the
charge as stated in the indictment. Draper's manner was abusive, and
his questions were usually "loaded."
Draper asked him: "Is it now clear, do you agree with me that your gas
helped to exterminate four million people in one concentration camp?"
To this rather complex, loaded question, Dr. Tesch answered, according
to the translator: "That I did not know; if it was my gas I did not
know it."…
The British Military Tribunal was confronted with an elementary
problem of logic. If, on the basis of the obviously sullied, unclean
testimony presented against Dr. Tesch, they acquitted him and Herr
Weinbacher, there would have been no one else apparently at hand
against whom could be made the accusation of supplying Zyklon B or
initially recommending its use to kill Jews. If, indeed, there was a
"Holocaust," someone had to have carried out these functions…
Both these honorable, innocent men died, probably aghast that such a
monster masquerading as "Justice," which had previously raged east of
the Bug River, now stalked purposefully with unchecked violence east
of the Maas River.
IHR
Topaz
SCHWERIN, GUSTLOFF'S FUNERAL
SPEECH OF FEBRUARY 12, 1936
. . . BEHIND every murder stood the same power which is responsible
for this murder; behind these harmless insignificant fellow-countrymen
who were instigated and incited to crime stands the hate-filled power
of our Jewish foe, a foe to whom we had done no harm, but who none the
less sought to subjugate our German people and make of it its slave -
the foe who is responsible for all the misfortune that fell upon us in
1918, for all the misfortune which plagued Germany in the years that
followed. Those members of the Party and honorable comrades of ours
all fell, and the same fate was planned for others: many hundreds
survived as cripples or severely wounded, blinded or lamed; more than
40,000 others were injured. And among them were so many loyal folk
whom we all knew and who were near and dear to us, of whom we were
sure that they could never do any harm to anyone, that they had never
done any harm to anyone, whose only crime was that they devoted
themselves to the cause of Germany.
In the ranks of those whose lives were thus sacrificed there stood
also Horst Wessel, the singer who gave to the Movement its song, never
dreaming that he would join those spirits who march and have marched
with us.
And now on foreign soil National Socialism has gained its first
conscious martyr - a man who did nothing save to enter the lists for
Germany which is not only his sacred right but his duty in this world:
a man who did nothing save remember his homeland and pledge himself to
her in loyalty. He, too, was murdered, just like so many others. Even
at the time when on January 30 three years ago we had come into power,
precisely the same things happened in Germany, at Frankfort on the
Oder, at Köpenick, and again at Brunswick. The procedure was always
the same: a few men come and call someone out of his house and then
stab or shoot him down.
That is no chance: it is the same guiding hand which organized these
crimes and purposes to do so again. Now for the first time one who is
responsible for these acts has appeared in his own person. For the
first time he employs no harmless German fellow-countryman. It is a
title to fame for Switzerland, as it is for our own Germans in
Switzerland, that no one let himself be hired to do this deed so that
for the first time the spiritual begetter of the act must himself
perform the act. So our comrade has fallen a victim to that power
which wages a fanatical warfare not only against our German people but
against every free, autonomous, and independent people. We understand
the challenge to battle and we take up the gage! My dear comrade! You
have not fallen in vain!
Sam Buckland
> On Mon, 09 Jun 2008 22:00:57 -0500, kmc...@shell.vex.net (Kenneth
> McVay OBC) wrote:
>
>
>> David Cole denounced his own video - funny you forgot to mention that.
>>
> After being attacked by the JDL.
>
Awww. Did they take his lunch money, too??
LOL!!
I'll Always Be Here
news:6rGdnf6Rp9EbONLV...@giganews.com:
>
> "Eugene Holman" <hol...@mappi.helsinki.fi> wrote in message
> news:holman-1106...@ke-hupnet13-26.hupnet.helsinki.fi...
>> In article <WcydnRsEy8Zt8NLV...@giganews.com>, "B.H.
>> Cramer" <Iamhre@them'oment.bizz> wrote:
>>
>>> "Eugene Holman" <hol...@mappi.helsinki.fi> wrote in message
>>> news:holman-1106...@c518-m3.eng.helsinki.fi...
>>
>> <deletions>
>>> >
>>> > No it wasn't. Being forced to wake up at 4 AM. an eleven-hour work
>>> > day six
>>> > or seven days a week,
>>>
>>> And what the fuck is so hard about that, tosspot? You've obviously
>>> never worked outside the goddamned education system.
>>
>> For starters, it's not a very nice regime to impose on people solely
>> because you have invaded their country,
>
> Tell that to the hebes in Palestine.
And yet more of the "but what about him/her" bullshit ole drongo is legion
for.
Try staying on topic for a change
>
>>defined them as having been born
>> your racial inferiors,
>
> That too.
>
>>uprooted and deported tham,
>
> And that.
>
>>killed most of their
>> family,
>
> And that too. (ignoring your exaggeration)
>
>>and decided that they should repay you for your kindness by doing
>> slave labor for you.
>
> And also that.
>
> Your hebes have managed to adopt Nazi methodology and ideology with
> panache, old feller. Brilliant scholars, them.
>
>
And yet more of the "but what about him/her" bullshit ole drongo is legion
for.
Try staying on topic for a change
B.H. Cramer
Idiot. The eyewitness testimony was taken as gospel It was NOT tested.
>Among it was testimony by Wilhelm Bahr, "an
> ex-medical orderly at Neuengamme, who described a prussic acid course
> which he had attended in the S.S. Hospital at Oranienburg in 1942, and
> which Dr. Tesch had conducted. He said that he himself had gassed two
> hundred Russian prisoners of war in Neuengamme in 1942, using prussic acid
> gas, but that it was not Dr. Tesch who had taught him the procedure which
> he had applied."
> (Source: http://www.ess.uwe.ac.uk/WCC/zyklonb.htm#EVIDENCE).
>
> None of the defendants contested the factuality of the use of the cyanide
> generated by Zyklon-B to kill concentration camp inmates at
> Auschwitz-Birkenau and other facilities run by the SS, nor did they
> contest their role as accomplices to the killings carried out with this
> substance by manufacturing and selling it to the SS even though they knew
> what it was being used for.
>
> This is not "judicial notice". This is an open-and-shut case of
> accessories to a crime being tried and convicted.
Horseshit. Your desperation is showing, as is your appalling scholarship.
>
>
> The next major trial pertaining to Auschwitz was that of RSHA head Ernst
> Kaltenbrunner in Nuremberg in April 1946. Kaltenbrunner's defense team
> called on the recently apprehended former Auschwitz commandant Rudolf
> Hoess to testify as an expert witness for them. Hoess testified in
> considerable detail about the gassings and the procedure for implementing
> it, and Kaltenbrunner's defense team did not contest anything that he had
> to say about the gas chambers and the gassing procedure. Hoess's expert
> witness testimony can be read here:
> http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/nuremberg/hoesstest.html.
>
> This is not "judicial notice". This was a case in which an important part
> of the evidence was provided by an authoritative expert witness, and in
> which the defendant did not contest the factuality of the expert witness's
> testimony about the gassing procedure or the existence of the gas
> chambers.
What was the point in contesting anything? The verdict was a given, fool.
parr...@yahoo.com
> "Eugene Holman" <hol...@mappi.helsinki.fi> wrote in message
>
> news:holman-1106...@ke-hupnet13-26.hupnet.helsinki.fi...
>
>
>
>
>
> > <Iamhre@them'oment.bizz> wrote:
>
> >> "Eugene Holman" <hol...@mappi.helsinki.fi> wrote in message
> >>news:holman-1106...@ke-hupnet13-26.hupnet.helsinki.fi...
>
> > This is not "judicial notice". This was a case in which an important part
> > of the evidence was provided by an authoritative expert witness, and in
> > which the defendant did not contest the factuality of the expert witness's
> > testimony about the gassing procedure or the existence of the gas
> > chambers.
>
> What was the point in contesting anything? The verdict was a given, fool.
Still running I see, Benjy!
Eugene owns you. Never forget that....
> > Eugene Holman- Dölj citerad text -
>
> - Visa citerad text -- Dölj citerad text -
>
> - Visa citerad text -- Dölj citerad text -
>
> - Visa citerad text -- Dölj citerad text -
>
> - Visa citerad text -
parr...@yahoo.com
> "Eugene Holman" <hol...@mappi.helsinki.fi> wrote in message
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > In article <WcydnRsEy8Zt8NLVnZ2dnUVZ_vudn...@giganews.com>, "B.H. Cramer"
> > <Iamhre@them'oment.bizz> wrote:
>
> >> "Eugene Holman" <hol...@mappi.helsinki.fi> wrote in message
> >>news:holman-1106...@c518-m3.eng.helsinki.fi...
>
> > <deletions>
>
> >> > No it wasn't. Being forced to wake up at 4 AM. an eleven-hour work day
> >> > six
> >> > or seven days a week,
>
> >> And what the fuck is so hard about that, tosspot? You've obviously never
> >> worked outside the goddamned education system.
>
> > For starters, it's not a very nice regime to impose on people solely
> > because you have invaded their country,
>
> Tell that to the hebes in Palestine.
>
> >defined them as having been born
> > your racial inferiors,
>
> That too.
>
> >uprooted and deported tham,
>
> And that.
>
> >killed most of their
> > family,
>
> And that too. (ignoring your exaggeration)
>
> >and decided that they should repay you for your kindness by doing
> > slave labor for you.
>
> And also that.
>
> Your hebes have managed to adopt Nazi methodology and ideology with panache,
But you don't believe this "Nazi methodology" EXISTED Benjie. Make
your stupid, syphilis ravaged mind up, you silly thing.
Looks like the tertiary stage has really kicked in now - a year ago
I'd never have believed you could make even less sense. But you've
managed!
Eugene Holman
<Iamhre@them'oment.bizz> wrote:
> "Eugene Holman" <hol...@mappi.helsinki.fi> wrote in message
> news:holman-1106...@ke-hupnet13-26.hupnet.helsinki.fi...
<deletions>
> >> > They found the testimony, supported by the forensic and other evidence
> >> > convincing enough to pass some rather severe sentences.
> >>
> >> Horseshit.
> >>
> >> Taken on judicial notice, idiot.
> >
> > Wrong.
> >
> > The first major trial was that of Zyklon-B manufacturers and suppliers,
> > Dr. Bruno Tesch, Karl Weinbacher, and Joachim Drosihn. It took place at
> > the British Military Court in Hamburg, British occupation zone of Germany,
> > from March 1st to March 8, 1946. The evidence produced by the prosecution
> > included eyewitness testimony.
>
> Idiot. The eyewitness testimony was taken as gospel It was NOT tested.
What was there to test?
Dr. Tesch was the director of the firm that manufactured and supplied
Zklon-B to the SS. Nobody contested that.
He had also taught a course at Orienenburg at which he taught SS members
how to kill human beings using cyanide. Nobody contested that.
Dr. Tesch's dfense was that he knew that Zyklon-B was using by the SS to
kill people, but that he sold it to them under duress.
Nobody contested the factuality of the gassings or the gas chambers, or of
Dr. Tesch knowledge that Zyklon-B was being used to commit mass murder.
The legal issue was whether the degree to which Dr. Tesch and his
subordinates were aware of the criminal use of Zyklon-B was sufficient to
justify their being regarded as kowing and willing accessories to mass
murder. The evidence presented to the court was sufficient to justify the
verdict that they were. Their defence strategy was not to contest the
factuality of the gassings or gas chambers, but rather to argue that the
defendants could not have reasonably refused to follow the orders given by
the SS.
<deletions>
> > This is not "judicial notice". This is an open-and-shut case of
> > accessories to a crime being tried and convicted.
>
> Horseshit. Your desperation is showing, as is your appalling scholarship.
<deletions>
What was there to test?
Regards,
Eugene Holman
B.H. Cramer
> In article <jtmdnXAIuIzaX83V...@giganews.com>, "B.H. Cramer"
> <Iamhre@them'oment.bizz> wrote:
>
>> "Eugene Holman" <hol...@mappi.helsinki.fi> wrote in message
>> news:holman-1106...@ke-hupnet13-26.hupnet.helsinki.fi...
> <deletions>
>> >> > They found the testimony, supported by the forensic and other
>> >> > evidence
>> >> > convincing enough to pass some rather severe sentences.
>> >>
>> >> Horseshit.
>> >>
>> >> Taken on judicial notice, idiot.
>> >
>> > Wrong.
>> >
>> > The first major trial was that of Zyklon-B manufacturers and suppliers,
>> > Dr. Bruno Tesch, Karl Weinbacher, and Joachim Drosihn. It took place at
>> > the British Military Court in Hamburg, British occupation zone of
>> > Germany,
>> > from March 1st to March 8, 1946. The evidence produced by the
>> > prosecution
>> > included eyewitness testimony.
>>
>> Idiot. The eyewitness testimony was taken as gospel It was NOT tested.
>
> What was there to test?
Their silly stories, silly person.
>
> Dr. Tesch was the director of the firm that manufactured and supplied
> Zklon-B to the SS. Nobody contested that.
>
> He had also taught a course at Orienenburg at which he taught SS members
> how to kill human beings using cyanide. Nobody contested that.
>
> Dr. Tesch's dfense was that he knew that Zyklon-B was using by the SS to
> kill people, but that he sold it to them under duress.
>
> Nobody contested the factuality of the gassings or the gas chambers, or of
> Dr. Tesch knowledge that Zyklon-B was being used to commit mass murder.
> The legal issue was whether the degree to which Dr. Tesch and his
> subordinates were aware of the criminal use of Zyklon-B was sufficient to
> justify their being regarded as kowing and willing accessories to mass
> murder. The evidence presented to the court was sufficient to justify the
> verdict that they were. Their defence strategy was not to contest the
> factuality of the gassings or gas chambers, but rather to argue that the
> defendants could not have reasonably refused to follow the orders given by
> the SS.
> <deletions>
>
>> > This is not "judicial notice". This is an open-and-shut case of
>> > accessories to a crime being tried and convicted.
>>
>> Horseshit. Your desperation is showing, as is your appalling scholarship.
> <deletions>
>
> What was there to test?
The silly stories, silly person.
All the stories were taken as gospel. Sure as hell glad you're not a
defencey lawyer and you were acting for me. FAIL.
>
> Regards,
> Eugene Holman
I'll Always Be Here
news:W5idnR_ACPdOTs3V...@giganews.com:
And the circular logic continues
>
> All the stories were taken as gospel. Sure as hell glad you're not a
> defencey lawyer and you were acting for me. FAIL.
What kind of work does a defencey lawyer engage in? Or are you talking
about a carpenter?
>
>
>>
>> Regards,
>> Eugene Holman
>
>
Eugene Holman
<Iamhre@them'oment.bizz> wrote:
> "Eugene Holman" <hol...@mappi.helsinki.fi> wrote in message
> news:holman-1206...@ke-hupnet13-26.hupnet.helsinki.fi...
<deletions>
> >>
> >> Idiot. The eyewitness testimony was taken as gospel It was NOT tested.
> >
> > What was there to test?
>
> Their silly stories, silly person.
Dr. Tesch had been working for and, by 1942, running the Tesch and
Stabenow company, and selling Zyklon-B to the SS by the ton for years. He
had also been employed by the SS to teach a course on the methodology of
using cyanide to commit mass murder.
You are asking that his directorship of the company, the files of orders
and bills for Zyklon-B, and his relationship with the SS be tested. You
would probably want the Zyklon-B tested to see if it really was Zyklon-B,
if it really could kill people locked in a room with it, and if so,
whether the Zyklon-B in possession of the SS was actually manufactured and
delivered to them by Tesch and Stabenow. Those tests being done, you would
want the testers tested. And then you would want the testers of the
testers tested. There is no end to this nonsense if you do not draw
certain limits and use common sense. One measure is that the defendants do
not contest the charges.
Thats like demanding that if and when George W. Bush is ever accused of
complicity for the war crimes currently being committed in Iraq by the
Coalition, we have to first test whether he ever really was president of
the United States and then if the United States really has anything to do
with what is going in in Iraq.
<deletions>
Regards,
Eugene Holman
B.H. Cramer
Nothing like it at all, silly person. You do have a way of twisting words to
suit your nefarious agenda. Did Keenan teach you?
I'll Always Be Here
news:y6KdnXrcYJGYec3V...@giganews.com:
Notice the traditional non-answer.
Eugene Holman
<Iamhre@them'oment.bizz> wrote:
<deletions>
>
> Nothing like it at all, silly person. You do have a way of twisting words to
> suit your nefarious agenda. Did Keenan teach you?
I asked you quite stratghtforwardly: what is to be tested? If a person is
convicted of being an accomplice to a crime, the evidence for which is
both abundant and manifest, and he can be linked to the crime not only by
documents shpwing that the firm he directed not only manufactired and
suppliued the lethal agent used to commit the crime, but also by the fact
that he has actually taught a course to the perpertraters instructing them
how the crime should be most efficiently committed, and he readily admits
that the charges are true, but bases his case on the argument that he was
doing what he did under duress, what, precisely, has to be tested?
Regards,
Eugene Holman
B.H. Cramer
And I responded.
Their stories, silly person.
Eugene Holman
<Iamhre@them'oment.bizz> wrote:
> "Eugene Holman" <hol...@mappi.helsinki.fi> wrote in message
> news:holman-1206...@ke-hupnet13-26.hupnet.helsinki.fi...
<deletions>
> >
> > I asked you quite stratghtforwardly: what is to be tested?
>
> And I responded.
>
> Their stories, silly person.
The Zyklon-B trial was not based on anybody's stories.
It was based on the fact that the company owned and directed by Dr. Tesch
had manufactured and supplied tons of Zyklon-B to the SS, and that Dr.
Tesch had taught a course at an SS training facility on the use of cyanide
to kill human beings.
Evidence for these facts was found in the archives of both the SS and
Tesch and Stabenow.
Dr. Tesch and his subordinates never denied the authenticity or accuracy
of the evidence. He did not deny knowing that some of the Zyklon-B was
being used to kill human beings at concentration camps and euthanasia
facilities.
Dr. Tesch's only "story" was that there was no way that he could have
refused to continue supplying the SS, while Weinbacher's was that if he
refused to carry out his assignment for the SS he would be handed over to
the Gestapo. The court considered the evidence for, but did not "test",
this argument and found it wanting. Thus Dr. Tesch and his subordinate,
Karl Weinbacher, both Tesch's procurist and the main purchaser of Zyklon-B
for the SS, were judged to be guilty.
Regards,
Eugene Holman
B.H. Cramer
"Eugene Holman" <hol...@mappi.helsinki.fi> wrote in message
news:holman-1206...@ke-hupnet13-26.hupnet.helsinki.fi...
> In article <Wq-dnRAVWdQvcs3V...@giganews.com>, "B.H. Cramer"
> <Iamhre@them'oment.bizz> wrote:
>
>> "Eugene Holman" <hol...@mappi.helsinki.fi> wrote in message
>> news:holman-1206...@ke-hupnet13-26.hupnet.helsinki.fi...
> <deletions>
>> >
>> > I asked you quite stratghtforwardly: what is to be tested?
>>
>> And I responded.
>>
>> Their stories, silly person.
>
> The Zyklon-B trial was not based on anybody's stories.
It was. You posted the stories.
You are a fool.
Eugene Holman
<Iamhre@them'oment.bizz> wrote:
> "Eugene Holman" <hol...@mappi.helsinki.fi> wrote in message
> news:holman-1206...@ke-hupnet13-26.hupnet.helsinki.fi...
> > In article <Wq-dnRAVWdQvcs3V...@giganews.com>, "B.H. Cramer"
> > <Iamhre@them'oment.bizz> wrote:
> >
> >> "Eugene Holman" <hol...@mappi.helsinki.fi> wrote in message
> >> news:holman-1206...@ke-hupnet13-26.hupnet.helsinki.fi...
> > <deletions>
> >> >
> >> > I asked you quite stratghtforwardly: what is to be tested?
> >>
> >> And I responded.
> >>
> >> Their stories, silly person.
> >
> > The Zyklon-B trial was not based on anybody's stories.
>
> It was. You posted the stories.
The last time I checked there was a difference between a person's story,
which is a subjective account of a series of events, and his documented
professional history, which is his objective paper trail from the
standpoint of the bureaucracy following him.
Dr. Tesch owned the company that manufactured and supplied the SS with
Zylon-B, and his procurer, Hr. Weinbacher was both second in command at
the company as well as the person who actually purchased the Zyklon-B for
the SS. Dr. Tasch had taught a course in the methodology of killing people
with Zyklon-B at an SS training facility.
These are uncontested, documented facts that were part of the
incriminating evidence against them presented to the British Military
Court in Hamburg in March, 1946.
> You are a fool.
I leave that for others than you to judge, even if it takes one to know one.
<deletions>
Regards,
Eugene Holman
B. Cramer
It's not his qualifications I take issue with, sunschein. It's his stories.
DO YOU UNDERSTAND NOW you dull-witted shit? Or pictures you want I should
draw for you already?
Kurt Knoll
the American military and so did Krup in Germany. Why do you have two
different standard for each nations or is this intentionally.
Kurt Knoll.
parr...@yahoo.com
> "Eugene Holman" <hol...@mappi.helsinki.fi> wrote in message
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > In article <jtmdnXAIuIzaX83VnZ2dnUVZ_hOdn...@giganews.com>, "B.H. Cramer"
See Benjy run.
Run, Benjy! Run!
parr...@yahoo.com
> "Eugene Holman" <hol...@mappi.helsinki.fi> wrote in message
>
> news:holman-1206...@ke-hupnet13-26.hupnet.helsinki.fi...
>
>
>
>
>
> > <Iamhre@them'oment.bizz> wrote:
>
> >> "Eugene Holman" <hol...@mappi.helsinki.fi> wrote in message
> >>news:holman-1206...@ke-hupnet13-26.hupnet.helsinki.fi...
> >> > Cramer"
> >> > <Iamhre@them'oment.bizz> wrote:
>
> >> >> "Eugene Holman" <hol...@mappi.helsinki.fi> wrote in message
> >> >>news:holman-1206...@ke-hupnet13-26.hupnet.helsinki.fi...
> >> > <deletions>
>
> >> >> > I asked you quite stratghtforwardly: what is to be tested?
>
> >> >> And I responded.
>
> >> >> Their stories, silly person.
>
> >> > The Zyklon-B trial was not based on anybody's stories.
>
> >> It was. You posted the stories.
>
> > The last time I checked there was a difference between a person's story,
> > which is a subjective account of a series of events, and his documented
> > professional history, which is his objective paper trail from the
> > standpoint of the bureaucracy following him.
>
> > Dr. Tesch owned the company that manufactured and supplied the SS with
> > Zylon-B, and his procurer, Hr. Weinbacher was both second in command at
> > the company as well as the person who actually purchased the Zyklon-B for
> > the SS. Dr. Tasch had taught a course in the methodology of killing people
> > with Zyklon-B at an SS training facility.
>
> It's not his qualifications I take issue with, sunschein. It's his stories.
I see you still can't read, Benjy.
>
> DO YOU UNDERSTAND NOW you dull-witted shit? Or pictures you want I should
> draw for you already?
Is that the only way you will understand the difference between a
story and a factual account?
>
>
>
>
>
> > These are uncontested, documented facts that were part of the
> > incriminating evidence against them presented to the British Military
> > Court in Hamburg in March, 1946.
>
> >> You are a fool.
>
> > I leave that for others than you to judge, even if it takes one to know
> > one.
>
> > <deletions>
>
> > Regards,
Eugene Holman
<kkn...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Very interesting Eugene. The American industries manufactured weapons for
> the American military and so did Krup in Germany. Why do you have two
> different standard for each nations or is this intentionally.
International conventions allow weapons for military purposes to be
manufactured, bought, and sold, although thir trade is the object of
considerable bilateral and multilateral legislation.
Killing people for the purpose of exterminating their nation or race is
not regarded as a military activity and it violates rules of warfare
established by such acts as the Hague Conventions of 1899 and 1907 and the
Geneva Protocol on the use of gas and biological weapons of 1925 that were
in place for most of the twentieth century.
Dr. Tesch not only manufactured and sold a product, Zyklon-B, that he knew
was being used to mass murder civilians as part of an effort to "cleanse"
or exterminate their races it was not only Jews that were targeted but
he also taught SS members how to use cyanide effectively for killing
humans.
<deletions>
Regards,
Eugene Holman
Kurt Knoll
"Eugene Holman" <hol...@mappi.helsinki.fi> wrote in message
news:holman-1206...@ke-hupnet13-26.hupnet.helsinki.fi...
And the only proof you have is your own. Zyclon b was used to kill lice the
rest of the stories is what you make up.
Kurt Knoll.
>
> <deletions>
>
> Regards,
> Eugene Holman
Eugene Holman
<kkn...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> "Eugene Holman" <hol...@mappi.helsinki.fi> wrote in message
> news:holman-1206...@ke-hupnet13-26.hupnet.helsinki.fi...
> > In article <I884k.2227$kx.2118@pd7urf3no>, "Kurt Knoll"
> > <kkn...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Very interesting Eugene. The American industries manufactured weapons for
> >> the American military and so did Krup in Germany. Why do you have two
> >> different standard for each nations or is this intentionally.
> >
> > International conventions allow weapons for military purposes to be
> > manufactured, bought, and sold, although thir trade is the object of
> > considerable bilateral and multilateral legislation.
> >
> > Killing people for the purpose of exterminating their nation or race is
> > not regarded as a military activity and it violates rules of warfare
> > established by such acts as the Hague Conventions of 1899 and 1907 and the
> > Geneva Protocol on the use of gas and biological weapons of 1925 that were
> > in place for most of the twentieth century.
> >
> > Dr. Tesch not only manufactured and sold a product, Zyklon-B, that he knew
> > was being used to mass murder civilians as part of an effort to "cleanse"
> > or exterminate their races it was not only Jews that were targeted but
> > he also taught SS members how to use cyanide effectively for killing
> > humans.
>
> And the only proof you have is your own. Zyclon b was used to kill lice the
> rest of the stories is what you make up.
The proof is the documents about is corporative, sales, sales promotion,
and teaching activities from the company and SS files that were used as
evidence at the trial.
Tesch never denied or contested the evidence. His defense was that he was
under considerable duress to continue sales to the SS even after it was
completely clear to him that some of the Zyklon-B was being used for
genocidal purposes.
This is eveident from the trial records:http://www.ess.uwe.ac.uk/WCC/zyklonb.htm
Source: ibid.
<quote>
<deletions>
11. THE SENTENCE
Counsel for Tesch, pleading in mitigation of sentence, said that if Tesch
did know the use to which the gas was being put, and had consented to it,
this happened only under enormous pressure from the S.S. Furthermore, had
Tesch not co-operated, the S.S. would certainly have achieved their aims
by other means. Tesch was merely an accessory before the fact, and even
so, an unimportant one.
Counsel for Weinbacher pleaded that the Court should consider the latter¹s
wife and three children ; that he as a business employee might have
thought that the ultimate use of the gas was Tesch¹s responsibility ; and
that if he had refused to supply Zyklon B the S.S. would immediately have
handed him over to the Gestapo.
Nevertheless, subject to confirmation, the two were sentenced to death by
hanging.
The sentences were confirmed and carried into effect.
<deletions>
</quote>
Grüße aus Hamburg,
Eugene Holman
Kurt Knoll
are still off limit for the Germans to investigate. Was the lampshade for
what Ise Koch wend to trial a real human skin . Why could this not be
analyzed in Germany and were sent to America instead for testing. The show
trial if ILse Koch was a publicity stunt and did receive enough attention so
her Son did commit suicide.
Kurt Knoll.
RJ11
B.H. Cramer <Iamhre@them'oment.bizz> wrote:
(snip "Holocaust revisionism" drivel)
Deal with the facts, doper.
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/camps/ftp.py?camps//bergen-belsen/images/belsen01.jpg
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/camps/ftp.py?camps//bergen-belsen/images/belsen02.jpg
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/camps/ftp.py?camps//ohrdruf/images/ohrdruf-02.jpg
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/camps/ftp.py?camps//nordhausen/images/nordhausen-01.jpg
http://isurvived.org/Pictures_iSurvived-4/dachau-corpses.GIF
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/camps/ftp.py?camps//buchenwald/images/buchenwald01.jpg
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/1673471.stm
Mass graves found at Nazi camp
Researchers have discovered seven mass graves at the Sobibor Nazi
death camp in north-eastern Poland.
The research team, which began its government-sponsored investigation
in the summer, said the graves -- the largest of which is about half
the size of a football pitch -- contain charred remains.
</quote>
RJ.
RJ11
I'll Always Be Here
news:I884k.2227$kx.2118@pd7urf3no:
> Very interesting Eugene. The American industries manufactured weapons
> for the American military and so did Krup in Germany. Why do you have
> two different standard for each nations or is this intentionally.
> Kurt Knoll.
Yes, the Germans did in fact manufacture weapons in violation of the
Versailles Treaty. Thank you for admitting that.
Of course, at some point you will realize that ZyklonB wasn't manufactured
as a weapon.
I'll Always Be Here
The only proof you have is non-existent.
> Zyclon b was used to kill lice
Yes, correct.
> the rest of the stories is what you make up.
How many people really died in a single air raid on Nuremberg?
I'll Always Be Here
> War trial after world war II were show trials.
Just like germans were used to. Remember the show trials the nazi's put
on?
How many of the trial
> records are still off limit for the Germans to investigate.
None, but of course you are too lazy and ignorant to find them, much less
read them.
> Was the lampshade for what Ise Koch wend to trial a real human skin .
Yes.
> Why could this not be analyzed in Germany and were sent to America
> instead for testing.
Germans don't have a lot of credibility after operating 10000
concentration camps for civilians.
The show trial if ILse Koch was a publicity stunt and did
> receive enough attention so her Son did commit suicide.
At least it was his choice to kill himself, not someone elses, like Ilse
did to prisoners.
Kurt Knoll
court for committing war crimes. American industrialist were not.
Kurt Knoll.'
"I'll Always Be Here" <aussi...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:Xns9ABB9BEF62697T...@194.177.98.144...
I'll Always Be Here
> You are wrong here. After world war II German industrialist war taken to
> court for committing war crimes. American industrialist were not.
If American Industrialists had committed war crimes they would have been
taken to court. American Industrialists weren't taken to court. Thank you
for proving that American Industrialists didn't commit any war crimes
> Kurt Knoll.'
>
> "I'll Always Be Here" <aussi...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
> news:Xns9ABB9BEF62697T...@194.177.98.144...
>> "Kurt Knoll" <kkn...@yahoo.com> wrote in
>> news:I884k.2227$kx.2118@pd7urf3no:
>>
>>> Very interesting Eugene. The American industries manufactured weapons
>>> for the American military and so did Krup in Germany. Why do you have
>>> two different standard for each nations or is this intentionally.
>>> Kurt Knoll.
>>
>> Yes, the Germans did in fact manufacture weapons in violation of the
>> Versailles Treaty. Thank you for admitting that.
YOu see kurt, I wasn't referring to war crimes, just the fact that germans
don't honor their treaties.
Kurt Knoll
the German Armey America industrialist did the same and this is supply ammo
for the Americans.
Kurt Knoll.
"I'll Always Be Here" <aussi...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:Xns9ABB9DD6EB0CCT...@194.177.98.144...
I'll Always Be Here
> You are an intentional screw up.
How many people really did die in a single air raid on the intentional
screwup of Nuremberg?
> They were charged for supplying weapons to the German Armey
How interesting. Can you show us the original documents, not copies?
> America industrialist did the same
American industrialists were "nationalized" by hitler and he didn't pay
them, and they never supplied weapons to the germans except in the form of
bombs that hitler ordered. There was a great misunderstanding and they
were dropped on german cities.
> and this is supply ammo for the Americans.
Which american units used zyklonB? Which american units used gassing vans?
> Kurt Knoll.
>
> "I'll Always Be Here" <aussi...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
> news:Xns9ABB9DD6EB0CCT...@194.177.98.144...
>> "Kurt Knoll" <kkn...@yahoo.com> wrote in
>> news:sph4k.28180$gc5.23477@pd7urf2no:
>>
>>> You are wrong here. After world war II German industrialist war taken
>>> to court for committing war crimes. American industrialist were not.
>>
>>
>> If American Industrialists had committed war crimes they would have
>> been taken to court. American Industrialists weren't taken to court.
>> Thank you for proving that American Industrialists didn't commit any
>> war crimes
>>
>>
>>
>>> Kurt Knoll.'
>>>
>>> "I'll Always Be Here" <aussi...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
>>> news:Xns9ABB9BEF62697T...@194.177.98.144...
>>>> "Kurt Knoll" <kkn...@yahoo.com> wrote in
>>>> news:I884k.2227$kx.2118@pd7urf3no:
>>>>
>>>>> Very interesting Eugene. The American industries manufactured
>>>>> weapons for the American military and so did Krup in Germany. Why do
>>>>> you have two different standard for each nations or is this
>>>>> intentionally. Kurt Knoll.
>>>>
>>>> Yes, the Germans did in fact manufacture weapons in violation of the
>>>> Versailles Treaty. Thank you for admitting that.
>>
>>
>> YOu see kurt, I wasn't referring to war crimes, just the fact that
>> germans don't honor their treaties.
I was just referring to the fact that germany didn't honor treaties they
had signed.
>>
>>>>
>>>> Of course, at some point you will realize that ZyklonB wasn't
>>>> manufactured as a weapon.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "Eugene Holman" <hol...@mappi.helsinki.fi> wrote in message
>>>>> news:holman-1206...@ke-hupnet13-26.hupnet.helsinki.fi...
>>>>>> In article <2bqdnRSTO_xvaM3V...@giganews.com>, "B.H.
>>>>>> Cramer" <Iamhre@them'oment.bizz> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Eugene Holman" <hol...@mappi.helsinki.fi> wrote in message
>>>>>>> news:holman-1206...@ke-hupnet13-26.hupnet.helsinki.fi...
>>>>>>> > In article <Wq-dnRAVWdQvcs3V...@giganews.com>,
>>>>>>> > "B.H. Cramer"
>>>>>>> > <Iamhre@them'oment.bizz> wrote:
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> >> "Eugene Holman" <hol...@mappi.helsinki.fi> wrote in message
>>>>>>> >> news:holman-1206081228070001@ke-hupnet13-
26.hupnet.helsinki.fi..
>>>>>>> >> .
Topaz
"This is the largest terrorist group operating within America.
On January 26, 1972, a JDL team firebombed the New York City offices
of a US-Soviet cultural exchange agency. Killed in the fire was a
27-year-old secretary (who happened to be Jewish). Thirteen others
were injured. One participant, Sheldon Siegel, confessed to police
that he had made the bomb, and provided the names of the others
involved in the crime. Several years later Kahane acknowledged JDL
responsibility for the crime. However, the case against the JDL
members who were charged in the incident was eventually dismissed on a
technicality. (note 36)
In May 1972, ten JDL thugs broke into the Austrian consulate in
Washington, DC, and beat Austria's ambassador to the US, Karl Gruber,
as well as the building's janitor. (note 37)
In May 1974, JDL members attacked Arab-American community activist Dr.
Mohammed Mehdi with a lead pipe, sending him to the hospital with a
broken back. It took nearly a year for the police to make an arrest,
even though a perpetrator had appeared on television to boast of the
deed. A short time later, Mehdi's offices in Manhattan were almost
totally destroyed in an apparent arson attack. (note 38)
On February 21, 1975, a US federal court found Kahane guilty of
violating terms of a probation stemming from his 1971 felony
conviction for manufacturing firebombs. He had been forbidden from
having anything to do with bombs, dynamite or other weapons, or
encouraging violence. Citing incriminating letters written by Kahane
in which he had urged followers to assassinate Russian and Arab
diplomats, the judge sentenced the rabbi to one year imprisonment.
Kahane served eight months of this term in a Manhattan halfway house,
which he was allowed to leave every day to eat in kosher restaurants.
Kahane used this period of "imprisonment" to conduct JDL business.
(note 39)
In 1975, 21-year-old JDL member David Kamaiko hijacked an executive
helicopter in New York City, demanding $2 million ransom to buy guns
for the JDL. Kamaiko shot the pilot before he was himself subdued.
(note 40)
In 1978, Canadian JDL leader Joseph Schachter bombed the home of
right-wing activist Donald Andrews. (note 41)
On April 11, 1982, JDL member Allan Goodman opened fire with a machine
gun at a Muslim house of worship in Jerusalem, killing two Palestinian
Arabs: an elderly man and a 20-year-old youth. After entering the
mosque, he continued firing, critically wounding several people.
Goodman, from Baltimore, Maryland, had received paramilitary training
at the JDL's Camp Jedel in New York state. In an interview, Kahane
said of the crime, "There was nothing wrong with what he did...the act
was perfectly correct." (note 42)
In 1987, three members of the Jewish Defense League were arrested for
their involvement in at least six bombing attacks carried out the New
York area between 1984 and 1987. The accused were Jay Cohen, Sharon
Katz and Victor Vancier, head of the JDL in the New York area. After
admitting his role in the terror bombings, Vancier was sentenced in
October 1987 to ten years imprisonment. Another JDL member, Murray
Young, was sentenced to five years in prison. (note 43)
FBI officials believe that the JDL was behind the bomb blast in
mid-August 1985 that killed Tscherim Soobzokov in Paterson, New
Jersey, and a similar (although non-fatal) bombing attack in early
September 1985 directed against Elmars Sprogis in Brentwood, New York.
Soobzokov and Sprogis were falsely alleged to have been "Nazi war
criminals." (note 44)
In January 1991, Kurt Haber-identified in newspaper reports as a
"Jewish Holocaust survivor"-was charged with making criminal threats
against the Arab-American Anti-Discrimination Committee. (note 45)
Alex Odeh Murder
Perhaps the most widely-publicized crime in which the JDL has been
implicated is the murder on October 11, 1985, of Alex Odeh, West Coast
regional director of the American-Arab Anti-Discrimination Committee.
Odeh was killed in a bomb blast when he entered his group's office in
Santa Ana, southern California. (note 46)
An FBI official announced in 1985 that the Jewish Defense League was
believed responsible for the murder of Odeh and at least two other
terrorist incidents on the East Coast. "We are attributing the three
bombings to the JDL," said FBI official Lane Bonner. (note 47)
Similarly, an FBI report released in July 1986 cited "elements" of the
Jewish Defense League as responsible for the murder of Odeh. (note 48)
Three JDL members were identified by US federal investigators in 1988
as the perpetrators of the bombing that took Odeh's life. The accused
assassins, who were born in the USA but fled to Israel to avoid
punishment, are Keith Fuchs, Andy Green and Robert Manning. (note 49)
Law enforcement officials in Los Angeles and New York have named
Robert Manning-an important Jewish Defense League activist-as a
suspect in at least four political bombings in 1985, including the one
that killed Odeh. Manning, authorities said, had a two-decade history
of violent activities that also included threats against producers of
a television show. (note 50)
After joining the southern California chapter of the Jewish Defense
League as a charter member in 1971, Manning quickly earned a
reputation as a particularly tough street fighter. JDL chief Irv Rubin
praised him as a "pretty strong boy. I've seen him fight. We tangled
with Nazis in the streets, Arabs in the streets. He was a real active
guy." (note 51) In a 1988 court document, a federal prosecutor wrote:
"It became known that [Manning], while purporting to act on behalf of
the Jewish cause, on several occasions placed or threw explosive
devices at locations of Arab antagonists." (note 52)
The Israeli government sought to obstruct the FBI's investigation of
the Odeh slaying, the federal agency charged in November 1987. (note
53) Manning himself tried to evade extradition by claiming heart
trouble, by taking 20 sleeping pills, and by charging that he was
being wrongfully persecuted simply because he is a pious, orthodox
Jew. In spite of all this, Manning was finally extradited to the
United States in July 1993. (note 54)
Official Confirmation of JDL Terrorism
The US Justice Department's Federal Bureau of Investigation has
repeatedly characterized the JDL as a terrorist and criminal
organization. A report issued in 1985 by the FBI's Terrorist Research
and Analytical Center confirmed: (note 55)
In FBI terrorism analyses published since 1981, responsibility for 18
terrorist incidents has been attributed to groups seeking to publicize
past and present injustices suffered by the Jewish people. While
claims for some of these acts have been made in the names of the
"Jewish Defenders,' "United Jewish Underground," and "Jewish Direct
Action," 15 of the incidents were attributed to the Jewish Defense
League (JDL), by far the most well known of these groups.
Also in 1985, the FBI named the Jewish Defense League as the second
most active terrorist group in the United States. (Only Puerto Rican
terrorists were more active during this period.) The FBI linked the
JDL to 37 terrorist attacks carried out from 1977 to 1984. (note 56)
Two years later, the FBI announced that Jewish extremist groups had
carried out 24 terrorist acts from 1981 through 1986, 17 of which were
the work of the Jewish Defense League. (note 57)
Another US federal government agency, the Department of Energy,
similarly characterized the JDL in a report issued in 1986: (note 58)
For more than a decade, the Jewish Defense League (JDL) has been one
of the most active terrorist groups in the United States. Although the
JDL maintains that it is a political action group concerned with
dramatizing the plight of Soviet Jewry and, in more general terms,
protecting Jews and Jewish interests worldwide, the FBI has long
classified it as a terrorist organization.
...The underlying purpose of the JDL is to reverse the mythical image
of the Jews as victims. This militancy also fuels the anti-Soviet
campaign designed to create and foment new sources of tension in
Soviet-American relations ...
The JDL, however, has also attacked Arab, Iranian, Iraqi, Egyptian,
Palestinian, Lebanese, French, and German targets in the United States
... In 1978 [for example], Egyptian diplomats were targeted...Attacks
have also been staged by League chapters in France, Britain, Italy and
Israel.
In more recent years, the official report went on,
The JDL has pursued a dual-track strategy of acts of civil
disobedience and generally peaceful protest, along with acts of
outright terrorism...Bombing is the JDL's favorite tactic, accounting
for 78 percent of all JDL incidents. Shootings are next, accounting
for 16 percent, followed by arson, vandalism, and kidnaping,
accounting for one percent each ...
Since 1968, JDL operations have killed seven persons and wounded at
least 22...Sixty-two percent of all JDL attacks are directed against
property; 30 percent against businesses; four percent against
academics and academic institutions; and two percent against religious
targets.
Typically, an anonymous caller will claim responsibility for a
specific terrorist act for either the JDL or one of its alleged
subgroups, only to have an official spokesman for the JDL deny the
group's involvement the following day.
In the past, although the JDL was among the most active terrorist
organizations in the United States, the threat it posed appeared to be
primarily symbolic...Recent events, however, suggest that this view
requires revision. The increase of militant Jewish terrorism
represents not only an escalation of violence, but a significant
change in targeting patterns, as well as a dramatic shift in tactics.
...The group appears to be concentrating its efforts on persons and
institutions it considers to be enemies of Judaism and Israel. The
targets now [1986] include alleged former Nazis and war criminals;
Palestinian and Arab individuals and institutions; and persons and
so-called research centers promoting views about the Holocaust that
minimize the dimensions of Jewish suffering.
Perhaps the most far-reaching change, however, is the increasing use
of assassination, both to draw attention to the terrorists' causes and
to eliminate perceived enemies of the Jewish people and Israel.
Mordechai Levy and the Jewish Defense Organization
Besides Kahane, two of the most prominent JDL activists have been Irv
Rubin and Mordechai Levy. Each has been repeatedly arrested for
criminal activities.
Until 1982 or 1983, Mordechai (Mark) Levy was one of the most active
of Jewish Defense League activists. (note 59) Among his numerous
arrests was one in 1981 as a suspect in a car bombing. (note 60) On
one occasion he dressed up in a full regalia Nazi uniform to apply for
a parade permit to march at Independence Hall in Philadelphia,
apparently in an effort to alert the local Jewish community to the
"dangers of neo-Nazism." (note 61)
After leaving the JDL (supposedly because it was not "militant
enough") he founded the Jewish Defense Organization. He claimed that
his group, based in New York City, had more than 3,000 members. (The
real figure was probably no more than a few dozen.) In the years that
followed, Levy and rival Zionist militant Irv Rubin engaged in
increasingly bitter feuding.
In August 1989, Levy was arrested following a dramatic night-time
confrontation with Rubin and other JDL members. Fearing that Rubin was
trying to kill him, Levy went to the roof of the building where he
lived and began spraying the lower Manhattan street with semiautomatic
rifle fire, wounding an air-conditioning repairman as he sat in his
parked van. (note 62) Levy was later sentenced to four and a half
years imprisonment for injuring the 69-year-old repairman. (note 63)
On April 22, 1993, Jewish Defense Organization members attacked
demonstrators who had gathered in Washington, DC, to protest the US
Holocaust Memorial Museum. At least one person was seriously injured.
A JDO spokesman told reporters that several members of his group had
attacked and beat "four or five" of the 150 or so persons who had
rallied to express their opposition to the Museum. (note 64)
One of the victims was David Willcox, a 52-year-old employee of the
Washington Suburban Sanitary Commission. He was standing on a street
corner when three men wearing black "paramilitary" uniforms and skull
caps with the Star of David attacked, beating him on the head and legs
with metal pipes. Willcox required hospitalization and 12 stitches in
his head.
Two JDO members later confirmed the attack against Willcox. JDO
spokesman Michael Schneider told a reporter that his group would
continue to do "whatever is necessary " to "defend" Jews, including
attacking "enemies" in the street. The FBI said that it is
investigating the attack against Willcox as a possible act of
"domestic terrorism," while city police announced that they were
looking into the incident as a possible "hate crime." (As we go to
press, though, no arrests have been made.)
Irv Rubin
Since the early 1970s, Irv Rubin has been perhaps the most prominent
Jewish Defense League activist and spokesman. After a time as leader
of the group's JDL's West coast operations, he emerged as "national
chairman" of the post-Kahane JDL. By 1979, Rubin had managed to get
arrested 39 times in connection with JDL activities. (note 65)
In March 1992, Irv Rubin was arrested on suspicion of conspiring to
commit murder. He was released a few days later after the Los Angeles
district attorney's office determined that police lacked sufficient
evidence to hold him. (note 66)
In August 1992, Rubin's JDL succeeded in forcing a Los Angeles
restaurant and nightclub, the Largo, to cancel a concert on behalf of
the Palestine Aid Society, to raise money for humanitarian assistance.
Rubin warned Largo proprietor Mark Flanagan that he could "expect
trouble" and an "angry protest" unless he cancelled the event. Soon
after, Flanagan discovered that his business' door locks had been
destroyed by still-dripping fast-acting molecular glue. Then, just
hours before the event was to begin, Flanagan canceled the concert out
of fear that patrons might be victims of a possible JDL attack. (note
67)
Violence Against Holocaust Revisionists
Among the most persistent targets of Jewish terrorists in recent years
have been those who reject the generally accepted Holocaust story that
six million Jews were systematically murdered in Europe during the
Second World War.
In recent decades, a growing number of scholars have been citing an
impressive body of evidence that raises serious doubts about many
supposedly well-documented aspects of the Holocaust story. These
"Holocaust revisionists" include acclaimed best-selling British
historian David Irving, French professor Dr. Robert Faurisson and Dr.
Arthur Butz of Northwestern University. (For more about Holocaust
revisionism and the arguments of revisionist historians, write for a
catalog of books, tapes and other material from the Institute for
Historical Review.)
Incidents of violence against revisionist "thought criminals" have
included:
George Ashley, a high school history teacher and supporter of the IHR,
has been the target of several terrorist attacks because of his
revisionist views. In April 1982, two bricks were hurled through the
front window of his suburban Los Angeles home. One month later, two
gasoline fire bombs were thrown against the front of his house, and in
December of 1982, JDL criminals ransacked Ashley's home, causing an
estimated $26,000 in damage. (note 68) Mordechai Levy later boasted:
"We warned him [Ashley] that if he continued his activity, he would
pay a consequence...We warned that if the school board does not stop
Ashley, we would stop him." (note 69) In July 1984, Ashley received
repeated telephone calls from someone who threatened to bomb his home.
A JDL member identified by police from tape-recordings of the threats
was later arrested. (note 70) In August 1984, JDL member Michael S.
Canale was arrested on suspicion of making a bomb threat against
George Ashley. (note 71)
In May 1985, Ashley's home was the target of a another bomb attack, in
which no one was hurt. The letters "JDL" were spray-painted on the
walkway leading to Ashley's front door. (note 72) This attack was
cited in a January 1986 federal government report: (note 73) The
following month [May 1985], the JDL claimed credit for bombing the
house of George Ashley, Los Angeles-area high school teacher who had
told students that the number of Jews killed by the Nazis during World
War II was considerably less than the commonly accepted figure of six
million, and that not more than a million Jews perished during the
war. Dr. Charles Weber, a contributor to the IHR's Journal of
Historical Review, had his car vandalized in two separate incidents
during the month of April 1985. A note from the JDL, which threatened
to escalate the attacks into a bombing, was left behind in the second
incident. (note 74) Dr. Reinhard K. Buchner, a professor of physics at
California State University, Long Beach, and a member of the IHR
Editorial Advisory Committee (1980-1983), was the victim of repeated
JDL harassment in 1981, 1982 and early 1983. He was spat upon,
physically attacked, threatened by phone, and harassed at his office
and home. (note 75) German-Canadian publisher Ernst Zündel, a
prominent revisionist activist, has been repeatedly attacked by the
Jewish Defense League. In December 1983, JDL thugs beat him on the
steps of Toronto's Old City Hall. The JDL carried out another attack
against him on February 6, 1984. In September 1984, Zündel's home in
Toronto was damaged in a pipe-bomb attack. A group calling itself "The
People's Liberation Army of the Jewish Defense League" claimed
responsibility in a phone call to a local television station. In
January 1985, a JDL mob attacked Zündel, his attorney Doug Christie
and Christie's female legal secretary at the entrance to a Toronto
courthouse.
The office of a German-American group was set on fire in 1985,
apparently because of the organization's skepticism about Holocaust
claims. According to a report on terrorism issued in January 1986 by
the federal Department of Energy, in June 1985 (note 76), an anonymous
caller stated that the JDL had intentionally set fire to the offices
of the German-American Political Action Committee in Santa Monica,
California. The German-American group probably incurred the JDL's
wrath by its advocacy of the view that "Jews were not gassed by the
Nazis...[and that] numbers and reports of predetermined extermination
are greatly exaggerated by professional liars."
Target: Institute for Historical Review
Since its founding in 1978, the Institute for Historical Review has
been the leading American publisher of books and other materials
questioning the Holocaust extermination story. For this reason, its
office in southern California, as well as individual IHR employees,
soon became targets of a systematic campaign that included a drive-by
shooting, three firebombings, vandalization of IHR employee-owned
automobiles, slashings of 22 tires of employee automobiles,
JDL-organized demonstrations outside the IHR office, and numerous
telephone threats during office hours and at night to IHR employees at
home. So intense did the harassment become that the family of one IHR
employee was forced to move. (note 77)
During the course of a JDL demonstration in front of the IHR office on
March 19, 1981, Mordechai Levy and other JDL protesters attacked the
car of the landlord's agent, who had arrived to ensure security. While
shouting threats, Levy smashed the right front passenger window of the
man's car as he drove off. (note 78)
A few weeks later, on April 5, 1981, JDL hoodlums staged another
violent demonstration outside the IHR office, during which an IHR
employee was thrown to the ground and beaten.
In the early morning hours of June 25, 1981, came the first
firebombing attack against the IHR office. Fortunately, the arson
device-similar to a "Molotov cocktail"-caused only minor damage. A man
claiming to represent the "Jewish Defenders" announced responsibility
for the attack in phone calls to news agencies. (note 79)
The second arson attack against the IHR office came on April 25, 1982,
in which a copy machine, a few pieces of furniture and some records
were damaged. In a telephone message to a local news agency, a group
calling itself "the Jewish Defenders" claimed responsibility. (note
80)
In an attack on September 5, 1982, the IHR office was riddled with
gunfire, demolishing two windows and damaging the front door.
Additionally, a small arson device caused some slight damage to the
front of the office. Later that day, as throughout the week, came a
barrage of murder-threatening telephone calls. Although the caller's
voice was identified as that of Mordechai Levy, typically, no one was
arrested in the case. (note 81)
Fire-Bombing Arson Attack
This terror campaign culminated in a devastating arson attack on the
Institute's offices and warehouse in Torrance on July 4, 1984 -- the
209th anniversary of American independence. Damage in the attack,
carried out in the early morning hours of the 4th, was estimated at
$400,000. (note 82)
In a special edition of the IHR Newsletter (August 1984), IHR Director
J.
Marcellus summed up:
As a physical entity, the Institute for Historical Review has
virtually ceased to exist. Ninety percent of our book and tape
inventory-the largest collection of revisionist historical literature
to be found anywhere-has been wiped out. Every last piece of office
equipment and machinery-including desks, chairs, files and shelves-lay
in charred heaps of useless, twisted scrap. Manuscripts, documents,
artwork, galleys and film negatives-products of more than six long
years of a tough, dedicated effort to bring suppressed historical data
to people the world over-no longer exist. Tens of thousands of
books...estimated at over $300,000 in value, are gone...More than
2,500 square feet of space that was once the world's most
controversial publisher lies blackened in chaos and total ruin.
Two days later, JDL leader Irv Rubin showed up at the site of the
gutted IHR offices to publicly praise the arson attack. The JDL, he
declared, "wholeheartedly applauds the recent devastation of the
offices of the Institute for Historical Review." Denying any personal
responsibility himself, Rubin said that the criminal attack had been
carried out by a former JDL activist named Larry Winston (Joel Cohen).
"I believe, with all my heart, that he [Winston/Cohen] had something
to do with this" arson, Rubin declared. (note 83)
Although no one was ever arrested in connection with the 1984
firebombing, the sophisticated nature of the attack suggests that it
could have been the work of trained operatives of a foreign
governmental agency.
Apart from local news coverage, American newspapers and television
reported almost nothing about this act of criminal "book burning."
This skewed media treatment moved noted journalist Alexander Cockburn
to observe (in the pages of the liberal weekly The Nation): (note 84)
The outfit in the United States that does publish material belittling
generally accepted accounts of the Nazi extermination of the Jews is
called the Institute for Historical Review. I don't recall much fuss
when its offices in Torrance, California, were firebombed in July
1984. Perhaps this is what Mailer meant by "sophistication" in
handling such heterodox opinion.
At the same time, though, a few prominent voices courageously spoke
out against the attack. American historian John Toland-who received
the Pulitzer prize for general non-fiction in 1971 for his book The
Rising Sun -- wrote to the IHR: (note 85)
When I learned of the torching of the office-warehouse of the
Institute for Historical Review, I was shocked. And when I heard no
condemnation of this act of terrorism on television and read no
protests in the editorial pages of our leading newspapers or from the
halls of Academe, I was dismayed and incensed...I call on all true
believers in democracy to join me in public denunciation of the recent
burning of books in Torrance, California.
British historian David Irving, author of numerous acclaimed,
best-selling works of history, declared: "I was deeply shocked to hear
of the fire-bomb attack on your premises."
JDL Harassment of IHR Conference
In mid-February 1989, Jewish Defense League intimidation brought on
the cancellation of a three-day Institute for Historical Review
conference at two hotel sites in southern California.
Arrangements had been made months in advance to hold the Ninth IHR
Conference at the Red Lion Inn hotel in Costa Mesa. Several days
before it was to begin, the hotel received the first of a barrage of
telephone threats warning that if it permitted the IHR gathering to
take place as scheduled, there would be large, disruptive
demonstrations in front of the hotel. It didn't take many such threats
to persuade general manager Russell Cox to cave in to the Zionist
group, and to cancel the hotel's contract with the IHR. Cox then added
insult to injury by permitting JDL chief Rubin to hold a "news
conference" in the hotel lobby.
Arrangements were then hastily made to relocate the IHR gathering to a
nearby Holiday Inn hotel. However, just hours before it was to
commence- and as attendees were arriving-the Holiday Inn likewise
cancelled out, bowing to JDL threats similar to those made against the
Red Lion Inn.
At this point, and with help from former US Congressman John Schmitz,
IHR Director J. Marcellus made emergency arrangements with Joe
Bischof, proprietor of the "Old World Village" shopping center in
Huntington Beach, to hold the IHR Conference there. Bischof refused to
bow to JDL intimidation, including a demonstration at the site by a
handful of sorry-looking placard-waving JDLers led by Rubin, who
shouted insults at passersby. In spite of the disruption, and some
inconvenience for attendees, the Ninth IHR Conference proved one of
the most successful and high-spirited ever. (note 86)
JDL Thugs Attack Young Jewish Revisionist
On January 22, 1992, revisionist activist David Cole was attacked by
JDL thugs at a meeting held at the University of California at Los
Angeles. Before the meeting began, JDL leader Rubin first tried to
push the youthful Cole down a flight of stairs. JDL hoodlums also
harassed and pushed around meeting organizer Robert Morrissey. After
the meeting commenced, JDL punks tried to shout down the speakers, and
then threw food at Cole. Finally, a JDL thug assaulted Cole-who is
Jewish-hitting him in the face and bloodying his nose. (note 87)
The tumult was recorded on videotape by a camera crew of the CBS
television news program "48 Hours," as well as by news crews of two
local Los Angeles television stations. Neither of the two local
stations mentioned a word of the incident in their nightly news
broadcasts. Similarly, CBS officials decided not to air even a second
of this outburst, not even in a segment about Holocaust revisionism
that was part of the CBS television network's hour-long
magazine-format program "48 Hours" broadcast of February 26, 1992.
Network officials apparently decided that scenes of Zionist hoodlums
beating a young Jewish revisionist would not "fit" with the image of
revisionism that CBS wanted to project to its many viewers. (note 88)
Violence in Europe
The Murder of François Duprat
In France, François Duprat-a gifted young historian, educator, and
prolific writer-was murdered in 1978, thereby becoming the first
person to be killed because of his support for Holocaust revisionism.
Duprat had publicized the writings of former concentration camp inmate
Paul Rassinier, distributed a booklet, Did Six Million Really Die?,
and had published a revisionist article of his own, "The Mystery of
the Gas Chambers." (note 89)
As a result of such activism, the 38-year-old teacher was assassinated
on March 18, 1978, when the car he was driving was blown up in a bomb
blast. His wife, who was with him, lost the use of her legs in the
attack. A Jewish "Remembrance Commando" and a "Jewish Revolutionary
Group" promptly claimed responsibility for the murder. (note 90) So
sophisticated was the attack that it is difficult to believe that no
government agency was involved.
The Israel Connection
It is no secret that Israel provides training and weapons for local
"Jewish
defense groups" in the United States and many other countries. Victor
Ostrovsky, a former intelligence case officer of the Mossad, Israel's
spy
and secret service agency, confirms this connection in his
much-discussed
book, By Way of Deception. (note 91) One department of the Mossad,
writes
Ostrovsky, is the Tsafririm, which is
responsible for setting up Jewish defense groups, called "frames," or
misgerot, all over the world, now including some parts of the United
States, where anti-Semitism is regarded as a threat ... The main job
is to help the leaders of Jewish communities outside Israel plan for
their own security. Part of this is done through the hets va-keshet,
or "bow and arrow," Israel's paramilitary youth brigades.
... Often youths from other countries are brought over [to Israel] to
spend the summer learning about security, picking up such skills as
completing obstacle courses, pitching tents, and learning how to use a
sniper rifle and Uzi assault rifle. Still others learn upgraded
security skills, such as how to build a slick, for hiding weapons or
documents, when and how to do security checks, as well as fundamentals
of investigation and intelligence gathering.
Israel provides weapons for the many "Jewish defense groups," confirms
Ostrovsky, indirectly through known arms dealers.
Tagar/Betar
In Europe the most important Zionist terrorist group is Tagar, the
youth (or "student") branch of the radical Zionist movement Betar. The
Tagar/Betar group has carried out numerous criminal attacks against
"enemies," including Holocaust revisionists. Headquartered in Paris,
Tagar/Betar has close ties with the Israeli government, and
particularly with the political party of Begin and Shamir. Tagar is
reportedly controlled by Israel's covert operations agency, the
Mossad. (note 92)
Tagar activists have often boasted of their determination to "strike"
against anyone who "denies the Holocaust." Tagar admitted
responsibility for a physical assault against French revisionist
historian Olivier Mathieu during a television interview in February
1990. Three months later, Tagar thugs sacked the "Ogmios" bookstore in
Paris (which carried revisionist titles).
Tagar/Betar activists receive combat training along military lines
from Israeli army officers. Tagar members wear paramilitary blue
uniforms with white ties (the Zionist colors). Tagar/Betar has
operated in Europe with the knowledge and approval of high French
officials such as Prime Minister Laurent Fabius (who is Jewish). In
more than one Tagar/Betar attack against opponents, French police have
passively stood by. (note 93)
Tagar activists have operated in France under other names, including
"Jewish Defense Organization" and "Jewish Combat Organization."
Private para-military groups are strictly forbidden in France, except
Jewish ones. Between June 1976 and April 1991, such Jewish "militias"
have carried out 50 attacks. In effect, Jewish terrorists in Europe
can attack their "enemies" with impunity. (note 94)
Tagar has also been active in the United States. In February 1992, the
"Tagar Student Zionist Organization at the Ohio State University" in
Columbus organized a protest meeting against Holocaust revisionism.
The group distributed a leaflet-which, typically, contained factual
falsehoods-specifically attacking revisionist activist Bradley Smith.
(note 95)
Robert Faurisson
Dr. Robert Faurisson-Europe's most prominent Holocaust revisionist
(and a member of the Editorial Advisory Committee of the IHR's Journal
of Historical Review) -- was severely injured in a nearly fatal attack
on September 16, 1989. (note 96)
After spraying a stinging gas into his face, temporarily blinding him,
three assailants punched him to the ground and then repeatedly kicked
him in the face and chest. The 60-year-old scholar, who had been out
walking his poodle in a park in his home town of Vichy, suffered a
broken jaw and severe head injuries. Physicians operated for four and
a half hours to repair his jaw and treat a broken rib and badly
swollen face.
A group calling itself "The Sons of the Memory of the Jews" claimed
responsibility for the savage attack. In a statement, the group
threatened:
"Professor Faurisson is the first, but will not be the last. Let those
who deny the Shoah [Holocaust] beware." (note 97) While French police
officially would acknowledge only that "three young Jewish activists
from Paris" had carried out the assault, the attackers are strongly
suspected to have been with the Tagar/Betar organization. (note 98)
Prominent individuals and organizations in France, along with the
country's most influential daily newspaper, Le Monde, condemned the
attack. However, French-Jewish "Nazi hunter" Serge Klarsfeld sought to
excuse or justify the crime. "Someone who has provoked the Jewish
community for years should expect this sort of thing," he said. "One
cannot insult the memory of the victims without inviting the
consequences." (note 99)
While the September 1989 attack against Faurisson was the most
vicious, it was neither the first nor the last. Between November 1978
and May 1993, he was attacked on ten separate occasions. (note 100)
Other Terrorist Incidents in Europe
On November 5, 1980, an arson attack destroyed the office, warehouse
and printing plant in Sussex, southern England, of the firm that
prints Did Six Million Really Die? and other revisionist publications
of the Historical Review Press. Damage was estimated at 50,000 pounds.
A leftist journalist, Manny Carpel, was found guilty of the crime, and
sentenced to two and a half years imprisonment. (He served only a
little more than a year.) In January 1984, in Cologne, Germany,
Professor Hermann Greive, a non-Jewish authority on Jewish religious
writings, was shot to death by a member of Kahane's Kach group. The
murder was reportedly carried out in keeping with a Jewish scriptural
injunction that demands death for non-Jews who "pry" into Jewish
religious writings. (note 101)
On February 10, 1988, terrorists set fire to the automobile of German
historian Ernst Nolte while it was parked at the Free University in
Berlin, where he was a professor. An anonymous letter, signed with a
five-pointed star, declared: "We attack Nolte because he is one of
those who personally represents the continuity of fascism" and as
co-founder of a "reactionary" group called the "Academic Freedom
League." Nolte had been widely criticized for his moderately
revisionist views of Second World War history. (note 102)
On April 20, 1991, Betar/Tagar thugs carried out a violent attack
against several persons who were to attend a conference in Paris on
the French writer Marc Augier. (Under the pen name of Saint-Loup,
Augier wrote a series of books on the French "Legion of Volunteers,"
which fought on the eastern front during the Second World War.) Three
or four of the victims were hospitalized. One, a 67-year-old woman,
was in a coma for two months. Two Tagar members were arrested in
connection with the attack, but two and a half years later they had
still not been brought to trial. (note 103) A bookstore in Paris had
to be shut down for good in 1992 after repeated violent attacks by
Jewish militants. The bookstore was targeted because it sold
revisionist titles and was operated by revisionist publisher Pierre
Guillaume.
On October 19, 1992, a team of about 30 Betar activists shoved and
insulted pedestrians, smashed automobiles, and threw tear gas at
police in the central plaza of the German city of Rostock. The group
was led by the "Nazi-hunting" (and anti-revisionist) husband-wife team
of Serge and Beate Klarsfeld. The Betar activists, some of them
carrying Israeli flags, insulted passersby with shouts of "Dirty
Germans! Dirty Nazis!". (note 104) In December 1992, the chief of the
Jewish Defense League in Israel announced that he was sending teams of
killers to Germany to murder "neo-Nazis." Every German who cries "Heil
Hitler," or otherwise identifies himself as a Nazi, declared
33-year-old Rabbi Baruch Ben-Joseph (Baruch Green), is a target for
death. (note 105) Prominent German far-right political figures are not
the only persons on the Israel JDL's hit list, confided one JDL
member: "Persons behind the scenes are often more important, such as
the professor who denies or whitewashes the Holocaust in a book."
(note 106)
Conclusion
As this report shows, non-governmental Zionist terrorism has been a
problem for more than twenty years. It remains a serious problem
today.
Espousing Jewish supremacy, the Zionist terrornetwork operates
internationally, linking Israel, Europe and the United States. In
addition to the suffering and destruction resulting directly from its
many crimes, the network's campaign of bigotry fosters a dangerous
climate of hate and intolerance. Through intimidation, threat and
violence, Jewish-Zionist terrorists have succeeded in silencing
numerous voices. Many others have never spoken up out of fear that
they might likewise become victims.
Particularly alarming is the important support provided to these
criminal groups by the government of Israel. This official
collaboration poses a threat not only to the freedom and security of
individuals in many countries, but to the very freedom and sovereignty
of nations.
At the same time, though, the danger should not be exaggerated.
Zionist power is formidable but not limitless.
For one thing, Jewish militants are often so inept and mutually
suspicious that they squander much of their energy on attacks against
each other. (note 107)
Moreover, the number of individuals and organizations that Zionist
militants perceive as "anti-Semitic enemies" has increased so
dramatically in recent years that any one person or group is less
likely to be singled out for attack. (Even the much-feared
"anti-Semite" epithet has lost much of its impact. In 1991, an Israeli
government cabinet minister denounced President George Bush as
"anti-Semitic" because he wasn't acting quickly enough in approving a
$10 billion loan guarantee to Israel.)"
No User
http://www.ihr.org/ http://www.natvan.com
Eugene Holman
<kkn...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> War trial after world war II were show trials.
The Zyklon-B trial was hardly a show trial.
The management of the company that manufactured Zyklon-B, supplied it to
the SS, and taught a course for the SS on how the cyanide generated by
Zyklon-B coiuld be used to kill people was duly prosecuted for continuing
to supply the studd even though it was fully aware that some of it was
being used to commit mass-murder.
The management did not contest the charges, but rather based its defense
on the wrgument that it was futile to try to resist the SS.
> How many of the trial records
> are still off limit for the Germans to investigate.
Anyone who wants can access the records of the Zyklon-B trial at
http://www.ess.uwe.ac.uk/WCC/zyklonb.htm
> Was the lampshade for
> what Ise Koch wend to trial a real human skin . Why could this not be
> analyzed in Germany and were sent to America instead for testing.
Could it be that Germany was in such a sorry state that it lacked the
laboratory capacity to carry out such a test effectivly?
Source: http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/imt/nca/nca-06/nca-06-3423-ps
<quote>
Shofar FTP Archive File: imt/nca/nca-06/nca-06-3423-ps
Archive/File: imt/nca/nca-06/nca-06-3423-ps
Last-Modified: 1997/01/03
Nazi Conspiracy and Aggression, Volume 6
[Page 123]
COPY OF DOCUMENT 3423-PS
SEVENTH MEDICAL LABORATORY
APO 403, c/o PM, NEW YORK, N.Y.
Section of Pathology
25 May 1945
SUBJECT: Identification of Tattooed Skin Hides
TO: COMMANDING GENERAL, Third U.S. Army)
(ATTN: JUDGE ADVOCATE GENERAL)
1. There were submitted to this laboratory section for
examination three tanned pieces of skin by Lt. Col. Givin
from Buchenwald Camp with office record designation of Case
81 T.J.A.
</quote>
Source: http://nmhm.washingtondc.museum/about/faq/
[Website of the National Museum of Health and medicine]
<quote>
46. Does the museum have remains from World War II concentration camps?
Yes. The museum holds five pieces of tattooed human skin that were
obtained from the pathology laboratory at the Buchenwald concentration
camp when it was liberated. The records concerning the specimens are
thorough, and testing of three specimens confirms they are human, although
we cannot say with certainty if they were obtained from prisoners or if
they existed before the war. (Because of religious restrictions on
tattooing, we believe it is unlikely that the specimens were taken from
Jewish prisoners.) A memorandum of May 18, 1945 from the Office of the
Chief Surgeon, U.S. Army, to the War Crimes Commission, expresses the
interest of the Army Medical Museum/Army Institute of Pathology (today's
National Museum of Health and Medicine of the Armed Forces Institute of
Pathology) to receive "dried human skin" from Buchenwald after it is no
longer needed by the commission in the Nazi war crimes trials. Also in the
museum's collection is a wax-impregnated half-head preparation. The
provenance information on this specimen is less certain, but it may have
come from Dachau. There has been extensive media coverage of the
specimens; most notably when The Washington Post printed an 80-paragraph
story with five photos on June 24, 2001 and when FOX 5 TV station WTTG in
Washington, D.C. broadcast a 9-minute program on Nov. 18, 2003 called
"Remains of the Holocaust" that included footage of the museum's
specimens. A transcript of the Fox 5 program can be seen by clicking here.
</quote>
Source: http://nmhm.washingtondc.museum/about/faq/fox5_transcript.html
[The transcript mentioned above.]
<quote>
Remains of the Holocaust
(ANCHOR INTRODUCTION)
SOME SAY IF WE FORGET HISTORY WE ARE DOOMED TO REPEAT IT. THAT'S WHY
HISTORIANS HAVE WORKED SO HARD TO DOCUMENT THE HOLOCAUST. BUT SOME
TROUBLING ARTIFACTS OF THAT TERRIBLE TIME "HAVE" BEEN LARGELY FORGOTTEN.
AND THESE 'REMAINS OF THE HOLOCAUST' ARE RIGHT HERE IN WASHINGTON. FOX 5'S
ELISABETH LEAMY JOINS US NOW WITH THE DISTURBING DETAILS.
ELISABETH?
(ELISABETH LEAMY INTRODUCTION)
WE'RE TALKING ABOUT HUMAN REMAINS -- PIECES OF HUMAN SKIN WITH DECORATIVE
TATTOOS ON THEM THAT THE NAZIS TOOK FROM CONCENTRATION CAMP PRISONERS AND
TANNED LIKE LEATHER. ONE SPECIMEN IS HELD HERE AT THE NATIONAL ARCHIVES.
THE NATIONAL MUSEUM OF HEALTH AND MEDICINE AT WALTER REED HAS FIVE OTHERS.
THE GENERAL PUBLIC ISN'T ALLOWED TO SEE THEM. AND NOBODY'S BEEN ALLOWED TO
VIDEOTAPE THEM UNTIL NOW. I WANT TO WARN YOU. SOME OF THESE IMAGES ARE
HORRIFYING --JUST LIKE THE HOLOCAUST.
(PACKAGE)
[NATSOT: traffic]
ON AN ARMY BASE GUARDED BY SOLDIERS.
[NATSOT "ID please?"]
BEHIND CLOSED DOORS.
[NATSOT: trying door]
IN AN AIRTIGHT LOCKED CABINET.
[NATSOT: keys in lock]
THAT'S WHERE DISTURBING EVIDENCE FROM THE HOLOCAUST SITS TODAY. EVIDENCE
THAT WAS 'PRESERVED' TO MAKE SURE WE 'NEVER' FORGET. AND YET IT 'WAS'
FORGOTTEN, UNTIL AN ECCENTRIC AMATEUR RESEARCHER STARTED ASKING QUESTIONS.
Ken Kipperman/RESEARCHER
"I wanted to know what are these specimens?... [cut] ...what happened to
them? Where did these specimens go to?"
KEN KIPPERMAN IS THE 'SON' OF HOLOCAUST SURVIVORS. SEARCHING FOR
INFORMATION ABOUT HIS 'OWN' FAMILY, HE ENDED UP STUDYING 'STRANGERS'
INSTEAD.
Kipperman: "Was this man murdered? Did he die of unnatural causes? Was he
starved to death? Who is this individual?"
FIRST HE FOUND 'DOCUMENTS' DESCRIBING TATTOOED HUMAN SKIN HARVESTED BY THE
NAZIS. 'THEN'... HE FOUND THE SKINS THEMSELVES. SEVERAL ARE HELD AT THE
NATIONAL MUSEUM OF HEALTH AND MEDICINE. THE CURATOR SAYS HE DIDN'T KNOW
QUITE 'WHAT' HE HAD... UNTIL KIPPERMAN TURNED OVER 'PILES' OF FORGOTTEN
DOCUMENTS FROM THE NATIONAL ARCHIVES.
Paul Sledzik / NATIONAL MUSEUM OF HEALTH AND MEDICINE
"It took some background research --some records had gotten lost in the
1960's and 70's-- to kind of reveal what these were."
BRACE YOURSELF. 'THIS' IS WHAT THEY LOOK LIKE. THERE'S A KNIGHT SLAYING A
DRAGON. A GIRL IN A RED SCARF. AN INDIAN CHIEF. A WOMAN WITH A SAILOR AND
A WOMAN WITH AN ABSTRACT ANCHOR. BENEATH THE COLORFUL IMAGES YOU CAN SEE A
MAN'S NIPPLES AND NAVEL ON 'ONE' PIECE OF SKIN AND PORES AND HAIRS ON
OTHERS. A U.S. ARMY ANALYSIS 'CONFIRMED' THAT THESE ARE 'HUMAN' REMAINS.
Kipperman: "We have these specimens. They're very gruesome. They're very
horrible, but everyone should be allowed to see them."
THE SINGLE SPECIMEN HELD AT THE NATIONAL ARCHIVES HAS BEEN OUT OF THE
PUBLIC EYE AS WELL. IN FACT, THE ARCHIVES WOULD NOT LET FOX 5 VIDEOTAPE
IT. AFTER YEARS OF PERSISTENCE, KEN KIPPERMAN 'WAS' ALLOWED TO PHOTOGRAPH
IT, "FOR 15 MINUTES" BACK IN 1995. HIS PHOTOS SHOW A LARGE CHEST TATTOO OF
A NUDE WOMAN WITH BUTTERFLY WINGS.
Elisabeth Leamy / FOX 5 News
"Maybe you've heard the infamous story... that the Nazis made 'lampshades'
out of human skin. The lampshades were lost some time after the war. So
the 'tattooed' skins are the only remaining evidence."
WHEN THE U.S. ARMY LIBERATED 'BUCHENWALD' CONCENTRATION CAMP IN APRIL
1945, WALTER MASON WAS THERE WITH THE 120TH EVACUATION HOSPITAL.
"This is another picture of the bodies."
WALTER'S ARMY SCRAP BOOK 'SHOWS' THE INFAMOUS LAMPSHADE, HUNDREDS OF DEAD
BODIES, AND THE MYSTERIOUS TATTOO NOW HELD AT THE NATIONAL ARCHIVES.
Walter Mason / FORMER SOLDIER
"The fact that it was a tattoo and somebody had tacked it to a board as a
mount was disturbing."
SO DISTURBING THAT THE U.S. ARMY WANTED THE CITIZENS OF NEARBY WEIMAR TO
'WITNESS' WHAT THEIR GOVERNMENT HAD DONE. AT FIRST THE TOWNSPEOPLE THOUGHT
THEY WERE LOOKING AT COLORFUL PARCHMENTS. THEN, REALIZATION DAWNED.
(FILM NEWSREEL) "The camera records the changes in facial expression as
the Weimar citizens leave the parchment display."
Mason: "They seemed to be generally aghast at what they had seen."
SO WHO ORDERED THESE REPUGNANT ACTS? A 'WOMAN.' ILSE KOCH, THE
COMMANDANT'S WIFE AND AN SS OFFICER IN HER OWN RIGHT. HER TRIAL IN 1947
WAS SUCH BIG NEWS IT'S HARD TO BELIEVE IT'S 'FORGOTTEN' TODAY. SHE WAS
TRIED TWICE AND SENTENCED TO LIFE IN PRISON. YOU CAN 'STILL' SEE THE
EXHIBIT NUMBERS ON THE TATTOOED SKINS THAT WERE USED AS EVIDENCE.
Mason: "It was beyond comprehension....[cut]...a total disregard for human
beings as humans. It's like they were a separate grade that weren't
eligible for compassion."
AFTER THE TRIAL, ARMY OFFICIALS WROTE HOME TO WASHINGTON AND SUGGESTED THE
TATTOOED SKINS
WOULD MAKE, QUOTE, "VALUABLE PERMANENT EXHIBITS" AND SHOULD BE "PRESERVED
FOR POSTERITY."
Paul Sledzik: "They wanted to document that these things going on and
these were pieces of essentially forensic evidence that were being used in
the war crimes trials."
Elisabeth Leamy: "The U.S. Senate 'also' wanted to document what went on
in the concentration camps. In December, 1948 the investigations
subcommittee called a hearing."
AT THAT HEARING, A MAN WHO HAD BEEN FORCED TO WORK IN THE 'LAB' AT
BUCHENWALD CONFIRMED THAT FELLOW PRISONERS WERE 'KILLED' FOR THEIR
PICTURESQUE TATTOOS. HE SAID THE SS 'ORDERED' HIM TO MAKE A STEADY SUPPLY
OF HUMAN HIDES AVAILABLE AS SOUVENIRS. AND HE 'IDENTIFIED' SEVERAL
BUCHENWALD TATTOOS --THE SAME ONES HELD HERE IN WASHINGTON TODAY.
Lilly Malnik / HOLOCAUST SURVIVOR "It's terrible. Shocking. Very shocking."
ABE AND LILLY MALNIK ARE HOLOCAUST SURVIVORS. WE SHOWED THEM DOCUMENTATION
AND PHOTOGRAPHS OF THE TATTOOED SKINS.
Abe Malnik / HOLOCAUST SURVIVOR "I'm really surprised to hear from you
that they have it in the archives. That kind of shook me up, really."
THE MALNIKS WERE SHAKEN --'NOT' BY THE 'SIGHT' OF THE TATTOOED SKINS-- BUT
BECAUSE THEY HAD 'NEVER' SEEN OR HEARD OF THEM 'BEFORE.' BOTH FIRMLY
BELIEVE THESE GHOSTS FROM THE PAST SHOULD BE DISPLAYED AT A MUSEUM.
Lilly Malnik: "I think it's important to display it to show the world what
really happened to us. What a nation could do to people, to human beings."
Abe: "People will be shocked, definitely...but this is part of history.
Part of humanity, of human race. If it happened to us, it could happen to
somebody else."
IT'S QUITE POSSIBLE THAT THESE UNKNOWN VICTIMS ARE NOT JEWISH. PLENTY OF
'OTHER' POLITICAL PRISONERS WERE KILLED AT BUCHENWALD, PLUS JEWISH LAW
'DISCOURAGES' TATTOOING. WE ASKED RABBI NATHAN ABRAuMOWITZ WHAT JEWISH LAW
SAYS ABOUT 'HUMAN REMAINS.'
Rabbi Nathan Abramowitz / GEORGETOWN UNIVERSITY
"The body should be treated with the utmost respect, the honor and respect
due to the deceased, to the body, and it should be buried in its natural
state and as quickly as possible."
ABRAMOWITZ SERVED AS A JEWISH CHAPLAIN IN THE U.S. ARMY AFTER WORLD WAR II
AND 'VISITED' THE DEATH CAMPS. PERHAPS 'THAT'S' WHY HE FEELS JEWISH LAW
LEAVES ROOM FOR "SOME" EXCEPTIONS.
Abramowitz: "The problem is that these remains have evidentiary value. And
since there are Holocaust deniers today...[cut]...it may be terribly
important to preserve these remains. But there is a difference between
preserving and putting them on display."
SHOULD THESE REMAINS OF THE HOLOCAUST BE BROUGHT INTO THE LIGHT TO BEAR
WITNESS OR BURIED IN THE DARK TO SHOW RESPECT? NOBODY WANTS TO DECIDE. AND
SO THEY LANGUISH. UNDER GUARD. BEHIND CLOSED DOORS. LOCKED AWAY.
(ELISABETH LEAMY TAG)
CURATORS HERE AT THE NATIONAL ARCHIVES DISPLAY ONLY A TINY FRACTION OF
THEIR COLLECTION. THE NATIONAL MUSEUM OF HEALTH AND MEDICINE IS DEVOTED
MOSTLY TO MILITARY MEDICINE AND SAYS THE TATOOED SKINS DON'T FIT INTO ITS
EDUCATIONAL MISSION, ALTHOUGH IT WOULD BE WILLING TO LEND THEM TO ANOTHER
MUSEUM. WHICH BRINGS US TO THE MOST OBVIOUS FIT: THE HOLOCAUST MUSEUM. THE
HOLOCAUST MUSEUM HAS NEVER EVEN SENT RESEARCHERS TO 'EXAMINE' THE TATTOOED
SKINS BECAUSE IT HAS A LONGSTANDING POLICY AGAINST COLLECTING OR
DISPLAYING HUMAN REMAINS. BRIAN, TRACEY?
(ANCHOR TAG)
THANKS ELISABETH. AFTER WORLD WAR TWO, THE U.S. ARMY ALSO BROUGHT BACK
GRUESOME EVIDENCE OF OTHER NAZI ATROCITIES, INCLUDING SHRUNKEN AND
BISECTED HUMAN HEADS. SOME OF THAT EVIDENCE HAS BEEN LOST AND SOME STILL
REMAINS IN GOVERNMENT VAULTS.
This story was posted on 11.24.03, and had not been updated.
</quote>
If you think that the Museum is mistaken or lying, please contact them and
set them straight.
Regards,
Eugene Holman
Kenneth McVay OBC
I'll Always Be Here <aussi...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>"Kurt Knoll" <kkn...@yahoo.com> wrote in
>news:I884k.2227$kx.2118@pd7urf3no:
>
>> Very interesting Eugene. The American industries manufactured weapons
>> for the American military and so did Krup in Germany. Why do you have
>> two different standard for each nations or is this intentionally.
>> Kurt Knoll.
>
>Yes, the Germans did in fact manufacture weapons in violation of the
>Versailles Treaty. Thank you for admitting that.
>
>Of course, at some point you will realize that ZyklonB wasn't manufactured
>as a weapon.
Not to mention the fact that there was no weapons manufacturer named Krup.
Frau Pikelhaube was knolling.
80 Statements Demonstrating Leading Revisionist Scholar Kurt Knoll's
strict adherence to the high intellectual standards of Holocaust denial:
(See http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/k/knoll-kurt/ for the first 75)
76. "The first thing the holocaust industry has in mind is discrediting.
So you must distort all the normal facts in order to make others
Mouth death. Only by playing a poker game in your Jewish way is
meant do eliminated all others that could pose a danger to you
holowsaga." <yOF%j.174532$rd2.79022@pd7urf3no>, May 29, 2008
77. "Get of the dope fellow. Leuchter did have expenses to make the drip
so it only logical to assume the money Zundel gave to leuchter in
compensation for his expenses and not influence peddling."
<xPV%j.177545$Cj7.138502@pd7urf2no>, May 30, 2008
78. "Hey Kenneth there are people dying now that never did dye before."
<x7o0k.309848$pM4.103280@pd7urf1no>, May 31, 2008
79. "Go bake and study you're bible we all know you are vegetable"
<MlX0k.7$C12.4@pd7urf3no>, June 2, 2008
80. "Wrong again. The Jews planed Palestine as their homeland since 18882.
Straighten out your brain" <QaD2k.13594$C12.2431@pd7urf3no>,
June 7, 2008 & <88F2k.13916$C12.12279@pd7urf3no>, June 8, 2008
--
"No wonder years after the war was over he found some more
diaries of Ann Frank and she did not know about it."
(Kurt Knoll, Kitimat, B.C.'s Leading Revisionist Scholar)
The Nizkor Project: http://www.nizkor.org/
4PeaceMirelle
Groups restored.
Tell me, McVay, why should the whole world remember the
'holocaust' (that does not include the tens of millions who died in
WWII that were not Jewish) when the same people who suffered this...
later do this...:
http://aliyaallzionists.files.wordpress.com/2008/06/dountoothers.jpg
Mirelle
4PeaceMirelle
I'll Always Be Here
d98e11...@t12g2000prg.googlegroups.com:
> Mirelle
Not now.
SPAM, lies and bullshit snipped.
(courtesy of ben cramer)
I'll Always Be Here
5a6c35...@h1g2000prh.googlegroups.com:
Topaz
http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v04/v04p261_Lindsey.html#note59
Dr. Tesch first became aware of his impending ordeal with the United
Nations Occupation Authorities when a British Captain, Anton W. Freud,
visited him in his office with Emil Sehm, one of his former
bookkeepers, and interrogated him in German. At this meeting, Sehm
accused his former employer of supplying Zyklon B to kill Jews. Dr.
Tesch denied the accusation emphatically, and accused Sehm of knowing
full well that Zyklon B was used only in pest-control. Dr. Tesch was
left in peace for a few days, but on 3 September 1945, he was arrested
and interrogated further before being released on 1 October 1945. On 6
October 1945, he was re-arrested by the British and remained
thereafter in their custody until his execution. On 31 October 1945,
Dr. Tesch signed a deposition. It was taken in the standard British
manner with oral translation from German into English. These
on-the-spot oral translations were written down and became the
official-and only-record. Afterward, Captain Freud said that the
deposition was signed voluntarily and Dr. Tesch had signed after only
minor changes. But Dr. Tesch testified later that he had signed only
because he "felt under some pressure" and after receiving an
indication that later, other explanatory changes in the deposition
would be made. It is not difficult to believe that any German being
interrogated at this time on this subject by a British officer named
"Freud" might, indeed, feel "under some pressure."
On the basis of Captain Freud's interrogations, the British War Crimes
officials decided to prosecute Dr. Tesch, Herr Weinbacher and Dr.
Joachim Drosihn. A British Military Tribunal was accordingly ordered
convened by Sir Henry MacGeagh. C. L. Stirling, who already had served
as Judge Advocate at the British trial of the Birkenau SS staff at
Lueneburg was again named Judge Advocate. R. B. L. Persee was named
President and Lt. Col. Sir Geoffrey Palmer and Major S. M. Johnson
were named as members of the Tribunal. Capt. H. S. Marshall was
designated as a waiting member.
On Friday, 1 March 1946, the Tribunal convened in Curiohaus, Hamburg.
It was a trial that had to be held if the "Holocaust" allegations were
ever to be anything more than malevolent tales conjured up by
imaginative, vengeful inmates, escapees, war propagandists, and so
forth, all with sinister, self-serving motivations and intents. It was
a time during which Germany's recent conquerors were frantically
scrambling to find the bricks with which to erect the all-absolving
"Holocaust" edifice they needed so desperately. It was a desperation
born of a compelling urgency to justify their own past and future acts
in Germany and elsewhere throughout the world as world powers, and to
secure permanently the undisputed mastery of Germany and Central
Europe which they enjoyed in 1945 as a result of the bloody
conflagration.
It must be pointed out that, regarding anything said in German (or
French) at the Tribunal, we at this later date are at the mercy of the
three translators and the three court reporters as to the accuracy of
the translations and of the record. All Tribunal records were kept in
English.
In accordance with decrees of the United Nations Occupation Forces, no
former members of the NSDAP might practice law. Therefore all defense
attorneys had to be free-in the minds of the prosecuting victors at
least-of the slightest hint of NSDAP taint. In practice, potential
difficulties were usually avoided by the tribunals' allowing only
attorneys with actual anti-NSDAP histories to defend the accused. The
defense attorneys were therefore from the beginning politically and
ideologically hostile to those they were to defend! Alternatively,
the accused could have elected to be defended by a British officer as
was done in Lueneburg at the trial of the Birkenau SS staff. (With the
result that most of these were executed!) Civilian English attorneys
were at this time strongly discouraged if not forbidden from acting in
defense of German nationals in United Nations war crimes tribunals.
The German (anti-NSDAP) defense personnel, many of whom did not
comprehend English fully, were required to follow British court
procedure which was totally foreign to them. Their handicap was often
so apparent that Major G. I. D. Draper, the British prosecutor, and
even the British Judge Advocate, C. L. Stirling, felt compelled at
times to ask the Defense if they did not have questions at particular
points. This was a strange trial indeed. It should also be borne in
mind that in the German law of the Third Reich, the prosecution was
obligated by law to present any evidence in its possession which was
favorable to the defendant. In the post-World War II war crimes trials
in Germany, this was emphatically not the case. When queried on this
point at Nuremberg by the German defense, the American prosecutor,
Robert H. Jackson, stated that so allowing would entail the
Prosecution's "serving two masters"! The realistic objective of the
United Nations prosecutors was not one of finding facts and arriving
at verdicts justified by those facts but that of obtaining, by
whatever means necessary, the testimony and evidence vital to support
a preordained verdict. The well-known precepts of the Vishinsky-Moscow
Trials were thus brought from the banks of the Moskva to the banks of
the Regnitz….
Dr. Tesch admitted his connection with Zyklon B and its commercial
development, as a result of his efforts, into a useful, effective
fumigant. He discussed its use in fumigation chambers to fumigate
clothing and the necessity of simultaneous bathing to kill body lice
if people were being deloused . to prevent typhus epidemics. In this
regard, he pointed out that Gentiles and Jews from the eastern regions
were equally afflicted with typhus-carrying lice. He denied
vehemently, however, every time he was questioned about it, ever
having recommended or known of the use of Zyklon B to purposely kill
humans. On the contrary, he emphasized, his efforts had always been,
rather, to protect humans and save their lives! In spite of all safety
precautions, there had been regrettable accidents while using the
lethal material, but in no way had there ever been, to his knowledge,
intentional killings. If he had learned Zyklon B was being misused to
kill people, he would have stopped ordering the material for the
offending user immediately…
In his cross-examination, the British Military Prosecutor, Major
Draper, was obviously more interested in the political implications of
the trial rather than in whether Dr. Tesch actually was guilty of the
charge as stated in the indictment. Draper's manner was abusive, and
his questions were usually "loaded."
Draper asked him: "Is it now clear, do you agree with me that your gas
helped to exterminate four million people in one concentration camp?"
To this rather complex, loaded question, Dr. Tesch answered, according
to the translator: "That I did not know; if it was my gas I did not
know it."…
The British Military Tribunal was confronted with an elementary
problem of logic. If, on the basis of the obviously sullied, unclean
testimony presented against Dr. Tesch, they acquitted him and Herr
Weinbacher, there would have been no one else apparently at hand
against whom could be made the accusation of supplying Zyklon B or
initially recommending its use to kill Jews. If, indeed, there was a
"Holocaust," someone had to have carried out these functions…
Both these honorable, innocent men died, probably aghast that such a
monster masquerading as "Justice," which had previously raged east of
the Bug River, now stalked purposefully with unchecked violence east
of the Maas River.
IHR