Ilja Repin - a famous Finnish Russian painter
Jarmo Ryyti
I visited last week an exhibition about Ilja Repin's paintings
in Punkaharju (near Savonlinna).
Ilja Repin is a famous Finnish Russian painter, who immigrated
from Russia to Finland at the end of the previous century.
He lived and worked in Finland until his death in the year
1930.
Quite a revealing was his painting what he painted after immigrating
to Finland. Its name is "Mika" vapaus" ("What a freedom" in English).
with best summer regards,
jarmo
--
# In 1958,The Swedish School Administration repealed directives banning #
# the speaking of Finnish language in Sweden's schools. However,some #
# municipalities maintained restrictions on Finnish language until 1968 #
#.................aga parem hilja kui mitte kunagi..................... #
Eugene \ fraer\
place (near St.Petersburg) before and after the revolution of
1917. The partition of Russian Empire left this place as a part
of Finland. So it is not that he came to Finland, but Finland
came to him. By the way after WW2 this place again became part
of Russia (now it named Repino, nice resort place not far from
St. Petersburg). So I. Repin was former Russian - former Finish
(and actually jewish) painter.
Oskari Heinonen
: Ilya Repin never "immigrated" to Finland. He lived in the same
: 1917. The partition of Russian Empire left this place as a part
: of Finland. So it is not that he came to Finland, but Finland
: came to him.
I thought Finland existed before 1917... I was wrong.. of course...
Finland must have come out of nothing at that time I suppose..
: By the way after WW2 this place again became part
: of Russia (now it named Repino, nice resort place not far from
: St. Petersburg). So I. Repin was former Russian - former Finish
: (and actually jewish) painter.
I would not call him Finnish though..
--
<><><>
Oskari Heinonen, University of Helsinki, Dept. of Computer Science
ohei...@cs.helsinki.fi, http://www.cs.helsinki.fi/~oheinone/
<><><>
Victor Oleksij Shevchuk
: : : By the way after WW2 this place again became part
: : : St. Petersburg). So I. Repin was former Russian - former Finish
: : : (and actually jewish) painter.
: : I would not call him Finnish though..
: Finnish-Russian-Jewish painter.
However, he was conspicuously so good in portraying Ukrainian Cossacks.
V Shevchuk
Victor Bazarov
shev...@argo.unm.edu (Victor Oleksij Shevchuk) wrote:
>Jarmo Ryyti (ry...@tukki.cc.jyu.fi) wrote:
>: Finnish-Russian-Jewish painter.
>
>However, he was conspicuously so good in portraying Ukrainian Cossacks.
By the way, I am so uneducated in etymology, would you please enlighten me,
when did Ukraine become 'Ukraine'? As I recall Repin's painting was about
Zaporozhje Cossacks. And actually cossacks were peasants who fled from their
masters, weren't they? Or they were always free? Somehow the historical moment
after which Kiev Rus became Ukraine passed me unnoticed.
>
>V Shevchuk
Tyozka.
--
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
If it's stupid, but works, it isn't stupid.
Murphy
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Jarmo Ryyti
: Eugene \\ fraer\\ (eug...@mit.edu) wrote:
: : Ilya Repin never "immigrated" to Finland. He lived in the same
: : place (near St.Petersburg) before and after the revolution of
: : 1917. The partition of Russian Empire left this place as a part
: : of Finland. So it is not that he came to Finland, but Finland
: : came to him.
: I thought Finland existed before 1917... I was wrong.. of course...
: Finland must have come out of nothing at that time I suppose..
It is similar logic the Russians use in Estonia. The Russians
have never immmigrated to Estonia, because Estonia has
never existed or Estonia came to them:-)
Normal Russian chauvinism with other words.
: : By the way after WW2 this place again became part
: : of Russia (now it named Repino, nice resort place not far from
: : St. Petersburg). So I. Repin was former Russian - former Finish
: : (and actually jewish) painter.
: I would not call him Finnish though..
Finnish-Russian-Jewish painter.
B.COPOKIH
>In article <3ugh5m$n...@lynx.unm.edu>,
> shev...@argo.unm.edu (Victor Oleksij Shevchuk) wrote:
>>Jarmo Ryyti (ry...@tukki.cc.jyu.fi) wrote:
>>: Finnish-Russian-Jewish painter.
>>
>>However, he was conspicuously so good in portraying Ukrainian Cossacks.
>
>By the way, I am so uneducated in etymology, would you please enlighten me,
>when did Ukraine become 'Ukraine'? As I recall Repin's painting was about
>Zaporozhje Cossacks. And actually cossacks were peasants who fled from their
>masters, weren't they? Or they were always free? Somehow the historical moment
>after which Kiev Rus became Ukraine passed me unnoticed.
Residents of Russian city Kharkov called the Poles living nearby
in the late XVIII century as "Okraintsy" to make them believe they
were not Poles according to the professor of Ukrainian history at
Harvard. Shortly afterwards, residents of Lviv which is considered
to be a birthplace of Ukrainian nationalism could be offended
if someone told them that they were Poles and not Ukrainians.
--
THESE VIEWS MIGHT BE DIFFERENT FROM ANY OTHER VIEWS IN MY UNIVERS(e/ity)
B.COPOKIH
vso...@mik.uky.edu
Victor Oleksij Shevchuk
: >Jarmo Ryyti (ry...@tukki.cc.jyu.fi) wrote:
: >: Finnish-Russian-Jewish painter.
: >However, he was conspicuously so good in portraying Ukrainian Cossacks.
: By the way, I am so uneducated in etymology, would you please enlighten me,
: when did Ukraine become 'Ukraine'?
Circa 3,500 BC, man.
: As I recall Repin's painting was about Zaporozhje Cossacks.
Well, even with this concession he had a narrow escape...
: And actually cossacks were peasants who fled from their
: masters, weren't they?
Actually, one of them, Vyshnevetsky, was among the richest masters
in Europe that time. And Khmelnytskyj was far from being considered
as a peasant, too. Probably, an aberration emerged due to persistence
of all kind of Cossacks sometime later, when terskije, daurskije,
jajitskije and semjonovskije ones started to pop up almost everywhere,
except Far North.
: Or they were always free?
If somebody is considered free by a third party, he is free.
: Somehow the historical
: moment after which Kiev Rus became Ukraine passed me unnoticed.
It was well before the Muscovy started to pass itself off
as the Russian 'Empire', or some British colonies decided to
'become' the United States...
Cheers,
V Shevchuk
p.s.
"E=mc2. Not only is it a good idea, IT'S THE LAW!"
Victor Oleksij Shevchuk
: Residents of Russian city Kharkov called the Poles living nearby
: in the late XVIII century as "Okraintsy" to make them believe they
: were not Poles according to the professor of Ukrainian history at
: Harvard. Shortly afterwards, residents of Lviv which is considered
: to be a birthplace of Ukrainian nationalism could be offended
: if someone told them that they were Poles and not Ukrainians.
There are many professors who are ready to explain round the clock that
Poles and Poljane were the same people, located right over there, where
Lukashenki have been practicing for a month or so in digging out a single
border pole.
Cheers,
V Shevchuk
Poor little fish
> I visited last week an exhibition about Ilja Repin's paintings
> in Punkaharju (near Savonlinna).
> Ilja Repin is a famous Finnish Russian painter, who immigrated
> from Russia to Finland at the end of the previous century.
> He lived and worked in Finland until his death in the year
> 1930.
> Quite a revealing was his painting what he painted after immigrating
> to Finland. Its name is "Mika" vapaus" ("What a freedom" in English).
There's quite an interesting museum of Ilya Repin in the town of
Chuguyev, about 20 miles from Kharkov, where Ilya Repin was born and
had lived for quite a few years before he emigrated to Finland...
_____ _ _ __ ____ _ _ __ _ _ __ _____
| __ | | | | |/ / | __| =W,yka | |_| | \ \| | | |/ / | _ |
| ___| | | | < | _| po imeni | | | |_ _\ | | < | _ |
|_| |_| |_|\_\ |____| Cawa |______ | |____| |_|\_\ |_| |_|
Markku T Keinanen
> In article <3ud29m$g...@tukki.cc.jyu.fi>, ry...@tukki.cc.jyu.fi says...
> >Ilja Repin is a famous Finnish Russian painter, who immigrated
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> Ilja Repin first of all Russian and only after that Finnish (or finnish?)
> painter :)
And he was living in our Sovi... Russian territory.
Markku
Pavel Ivanov
>Ilja Repin is a famous Finnish Russian painter, who immigrated
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Ilja Repin first of all Russian and only after that Finnish (or finnish?)
painter :)
Ivanov Pavel | International Institute
E-mail: iva...@iiasa.ac.at | for Applied Systems Analysis
WINDOWS | DIE!
Hiski Haapoja
the summer) but besides the Punkaharju exhibition of Repin advertised
by scr's favorite Finn J. Ryyti, until Oct 1st there is another
exhibition of late 19th century Russian art in Ateneum, across
the street from the Helsinki railway station. Most of the paintings
are on loan from Moscow and St. Petersburg, except some Repins
from Finnish collections including "Great Finns". Finnish-speakers
can read the story of that painting in Apu 26/27, along with Repin's
very negative views of Bolshevik leaders ("gang of thugs who revel
in luxury while people starve").
Hiski
--
# The French nuclear tests should be made on Serbian territory. #
Jarmo Ryyti
: In article <3ud29m$g...@tukki.cc.jyu.fi>, ry...@tukki.cc.jyu.fi says...
: >Ilja Repin is a famous Finnish Russian painter, who immigrated
: ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
: Ilja Repin first of all Russian and only after that Finnish (or finnish?)
: painter :)
Thanx to the Finns he continued to live after 1917...in Finland,
where he immigrated 17 years earlier and died in peace 1930.
However,the Russians seem to be eager to "refind" Repin's Russianness,
now:-)
lots of regards to the occupied territories,however,
Jarmo Ryyti
: > In article <3ud29m$g...@tukki.cc.jyu.fi>, ry...@tukki.cc.jyu.fi says...
: > >Ilja Repin is a famous Finnish Russian painter, who immigrated
: > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
: > Ilja Repin first of all Russian and only after that Finnish (or finnish?)
: > painter :)
: And he was living in our Sovi... Russian territory.
: Markku
He died 1930 in Kuokkala,Finland. The region was occupied
by the Russians first 30.11.1939 under the pseudonym "Soviet Union".
x)
The region is still under the occupation allthought
the respected Russian x-comrades say "we have nothing to
do with SU". (It is famous Russian humour)
With best regards from the non-occupied part of Finland,
jarmo
x)Perhaps they just wanted to steal his paintings,as the friends of
the arts? (A non-scientific hypothesis)
dragon_fly
has to do with Finland or Finns, other than that
he happened to live on temporary occupied by
Finland Russian territories.
These territories are Russian again and more would follow.
Finns don't have anybody of their own to be proud of,
so they just like Turko-Okrainians are trying to stick to
someone's else achievements.
Even Linus Torvalds is not a Finn but rather ethnic Swede.
I wonder if anybody heard of any Finnish (or, say, Turkish)
scientists, engeeners, artists ?
The only thing which Finns managed to produce are JArmos.
Cordially,
Dragon
Eugene Holman
>
>
>
>I wonder if anybody heard of any Finnish (or, say, Turkish)
>scientists, engeeners, artists ?
>
- Kalervo Laurikainen, student of Wolfgang Pauli and internationally
acclaimed authority in quantum physics.
- Georg-Henrik von Wright, successor to Wittgenstein at Oxford and a major
figure in philosophy
- Raimo Anttila, international authority in historical linguistics
- A. I. Virtanen, Nobel Prize in Chemistry 1945.
- Teuvo Kohonen, major figure in the study of self-organizartion and neural
networks
- Kimmo Koskenniemi, developer of several important algorithms within the
field of computational linguistics
- Jaako Hintikka, internationally acclaimed authority on logic
A few engineers (architects):
- Alvar Aalto, Eliel Saarinen, Eero Saarinen, three leading architects of
the 20th century (Aalto: Vyborg (formerly Viipuri) City Library, Finlandia
Hall, Baker House (MIT)
- Eliel Saarinen 'father of the skyscraper': Helsinki Central Railway
Station, Chicago Tribune Building,
- Eero Saarinen: Gateway Arch (St. Louis), TWA Terminal, J.F.K. Airport (New
York City), Dulles International Airport (Washington), Kresge Auditorium
(MIT), Ingalls Hockey Rink (Yale), CBS Bulding (New York City)
A few artists:
- Eliel Lönnrot, compiler of the epic 'Kalevala'
- Eemil Sillanpää. Nobel Prize in Literature 1939.
- Mika Waltari, 'Sinuhe, the Egyptian', 'The Unknown Soldier'
- Veijo Meri 'The Manila Rope'
- Jean Sibelius, one of the leading symphonic composers of the 20th century
(not a Finland-Swede, but an ethnic Finn, despite the name),
- Joonas Kokkonen, opera composer
- Karita Mattila. opera singer
- Martti Talvela, opera singer
- Kim Borg, opera singer
- Raili Kostia. opera singer
- Esa-Pekka Salonen, conductor
- Leif Segerstam, conductor and composer
- Mika and Aki Kaurismäki, movie makers
- The Leningrad Cowboys
- Jörn Donner, iconoclast
- Renny Harlin, movie producer
- K. G. Mannerheim, who succeeded on two occasions in ensuring that Finland
was not devoured by her rapacious neighbor (hishnij sosed') to the east
might also be regarded as a major tightrope artist...
Regards,
Eugene Holman
dragon_fly
Eugene Holman <hol...@katk.helsinki.fi> wrote:
>In article <3utlbt$9...@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>, DragonFly says...
>>
>>
>>
>>I wonder if anybody heard of any Finnish (or, say, Turkish)
>>scientists, engeeners, artists ?
>>
>A few scientists and scholars:
Better tell us who else besides you knows
these "scientists"?
The only "Finn" known to outside world
is Linus Torvalds, but even then he is not
a Finn but ethnic Swede.
Cordially,
Dragon
Anubis
wrote:
>vbaz...@imsisoft.com (Victor Bazarov) wrote:
>>....
>>By the way, I am so uneducated in etymology, would you please enlighten me,
>>Zaporozhje Cossacks.
Yes, that's right. And the Zaporozhian Cossacks were, by and large,
Ukrainians (define that as you will :-).
>>And actually cossacks were peasants who fled from their masters,
>>weren't they? Or they were always free?
Not all were fleeing peasants. For those interested in the history of
cossacks in general (not just Ukrainian cossacks), I recommend a widely
available and quite readable book by Albert Seaton called "The Horsemen
of the Steppes: The Story of the Cossacks."
>>Somehow the historical moment after which Kiev Rus became Ukraine
>>passed me unnoticed.
>
> Residents of Russian city Kharkov called the Poles living nearby
> in the late XVIII century as "Okraintsy" to make them believe they
> were not Poles according to the professor of Ukrainian history at
> Harvard. Shortly afterwards, residents of Lviv which is considered
> to be a birthplace of Ukrainian nationalism could be offended
> if someone told them that they were Poles and not Ukrainians.
Vova, what is it you are trying to imply? That "Ukrainians" are actually
Poles? Or are you now preaching Dragon Fly's "Turko-Okrainian" gospel?
Please - elaborate. Enquiring minds wanna know, etc.
--
Larisa
Anu...@starbase.neosoft.com
"A lesson from the monkey: The higher it climbs, the more you can see of
its behind." -- Saint Bonaventure
cst...@ibm.net
>In article <holman-24...@fab24mac-8.pc.helsinki.fi>,
>Eugene Holman <hol...@katk.helsinki.fi> wrote:
>>In article <3uujl0$b...@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>, Dragon Fly wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Better tell us who else besides you knows
>>> these "scientists"?
>>>
>>
>>of two Nobel Prize Winners (A. I. Virtanen, E. F. Sillanpdd), two
>
>don't bother yourself, Holman.
>Even 20 silver coins are not
>worth of such an excruciating research.
>
>You are pitiful creature.
>
>Sweating it out, heh?
>
>Do you seriously think anyone would believe you dandruff-ridden purebred Sovok?
>
>
>Cordially,
>Dragon
>
>
>>universally acclaimed authorities in computer science and artifical
>>intelligence research (T. Kohonen, K. Koskenniemi), the father of the
>>American skyscraper (Eliel Saarinen), the architect who designed both the
>>airport terminal at Washington D.C. and one of the most extraordinary
>>structures in the United States (the Gateway Arch in St. Louis), Eero
>>Saarinen, as well as one of the major symphonic composers of the twentieth
>>century (Jean Sibelius), the compiler of a major epic poem (Lvnnrot, The
>>Kalevala), a producer of thriller movies (Renny Harlin: Cliffhanger, Die
>>Hard), and internationally acclaimed opera singers (Martti Talvela, Raili
>>Kostia, Carita Mattila, Kim Borg).
>>
>>If you have never heard of any of these people it reflects more on you than
>>on them or the country that produced them.
>>
>>Cordially,
>>Eugene Holman
>
>
Antti A Lahelma
> Picking any decent biography of Sibelius, will prove me right.
You're sadly ignorant of Finnish history; no major crime, but you'd do well
with less arrogance.
> For instance, "Jean Sibelius, His Life
> and Personality", by Karl Ekman, (published in London by Alan Wilmer ltd)
> sez right on the page two :" ... Though coming from families whose language
> and culture had been Swedish for generations, he associated himself
> enthusiastically in a time of strong patriotic revival with the national
> Finnish movement ... blah blah blah".
Finland is bilingual country. You have Finns who speak Finnish and you have
Finns who speak Swedish. The latter are either descended from the Swedish
immigrants who arrived in the early middle ages (12th-13th centuries) or,
as is often the case with upper class families, descendants of Finnish
families that rose in the hierarchy of the Swedish kingdom and thus took a
Swedified name and started speaking Swedish as that was the language of
government and education. There are no genetic or significant cultural
differences between Finnish-speakers and Swedish-speakers, it's a linguistic
division.
Up until mid-19th century, both the Finnish-speakers and Swedish-speakers
were called "Finns"; after that there started to grow tensions between the
groups, and two language-political groups emerged: the Fennomans and
Svecomans. The latter started to call themselves "Finland-Swedes" (finlands-
svenskar) and the word has stuck, but the distinction is artificial and
political, and wasn't very relevant when Sibelius was born. This is
illustrated by the fact that while his home was indeed Swedish-speaking,
his parents sent the young Sibelius to a Finnish-speaking school (Hameenlinnan
normaalilyseo).
In his correspondence, it is true, Sibelius used Swedish more often than
Finnish, but when he wrote to his future wife, Aino Jarnefelt, he said
that he felt that he was "thoroughly Finnish". His lieds he wrote mainly
for Swedish texts, but his choral works are written for Finnish texts. Most
of his symphonic poems are inspired by Finnish mythology, but he was no
Fennoman either. He was above the Fennoman/Svecoman division, a bilingual
Finn in the traditional sense.
(educate yourself before you go flamebaiting)
LVX,
--
Antti Lahelma "Tragedy is the farce that involves our
alah...@cc.helsinki.fi sympathies: farce is the tragedy that
University of Helsinki happens to outsiders." --Aldous Huxley
Aarno Paavola
>
>Maris Ozols <Ma...@mozols.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>]In article <3v0j09$r...@lynx.dac.neu.edu>
>] mkag...@lynx.dac.neu.edu "Michael Kagalenko" writes:
>]
>]> Eugene Holman <hol...@katk.helsinki.fi> wrote:
>]> ]Saarinen, as well as one of the major symphonic composers of the
twentieth
>]> ]century (Jean Sibelius),
>]>
>]> don't know about all other guys, but Sibelius is Swede.
>]>
>]In that case all of the world's encyclopedias must be wrong. Are you
writing
>]a new definitive version.
>
> By "all of the world's encyclopaedias" you probably mean some cheap crap
> they sell over there in pribaltica.
Encyclopaedia Britannica, 15 edition, vol. 16: (Sibelius): "Occupying a
special position not only in the music of Finland and Scandinavia but in the
development of the symphony, Jean Sibelius possessed the most powerful
musical personality to have emerged in any of the Scandinavian countries,
and his seven symphonies show an excessive mastery of the form."
Focus uppslagsbok, band 4, 1970, Almqvist & Wiksell, Stockholm: "Sibelius,
Jean...finländsk tonsättare..."
Svensk uppslagsbok, band 25, 1953, Förlagshuset Norden AB, Malmö: "Sibelius,
Jean...finländsk tonsättare..."
Bol'shaja soveckaja ènciklopedija, tom 38, GNI "Bol'shaja soveckaja
ènciklopedija": "Sibelius... - vydajushchijsja finskij kompozitor"
Regards,
Eugene Holman
Eugene Holman
>
>I find the use of the word "nationality" in this thread rather misleading.
> If someone wanted to use "ethnicity" to say Sibelius was Swedish, one
>could argue that, but Sibelius' _nationality_ was definitely Finnish
>because he was born in Finland, spoke Finnish, and said he was Finnish.
>To argue otherwise is to say there is no such thing as an American
>national (except Amerinds).
>John Uhlemann
And even the Amerinds are emigrés from north-eastern Asia.
Think I'll go read some of my favorite Ethiopian poet, Pushkin, and think
about the heroic exploits of that great Chuvash cosmonaut, Yuri Gagarin.
Regards,
Eugene Holman
BUhlemann
Jarmo Ryyti
: Maris Ozols <Ma...@mozols.demon.co.uk> wrote:
: ]In article <3v0j09$r...@lynx.dac.neu.edu>
: ] mkag...@lynx.dac.neu.edu "Michael Kagalenko" writes:
: ]> Eugene Holman <hol...@katk.helsinki.fi> wrote:
: ]> ]Saarinen, as well as one of the major symphonic composers of the twentieth
: ]> ]century (Jean Sibelius),
: ]>
: ]> don't know about all other guys, but Sibelius is Swede.
: ]>
: ]In that case all of the world's encyclopedias must be wrong. Are you writing
: ]a new definitive version.
For the monolingual Russians who are in generally completely inproficient
in languages it must be very strange that there are peoples whose
citizens have several languages.
I just wonder if Tolstoy or other Russian "genius" understood anything
but Russian? If so, their world must have been very limited.
: By "all of the world's encyclopaedias" you probably mean some cheap crap
: they sell over there in pribaltica. Picking any decent biography of
: Sibelius, will prove me right. For instance, "Jean Sibelius, His Life
: and Personality", by Karl Ekman, (published in London by Alan Wilmer ltd)
: sez right on the page two :" ... Though coming from families whose language
: and culture had been Swedish for generations, he associated himself
: enthusiastically in a time of strong patriotic revival with the national
: Finnish movement ... blah blah blah".
regards,
jarmo
Gustav Akk
Carlo Vitali <vom...@iperbole.bologna.it> wrote:
>
>>]>Eugene Holman <hol...@katk.helsinki.fi> wrote:
>
>>]> I don't know about all other guys, but Sibelius is Swede.
>
>Sibelius was born as a Russian subject in Hämeenlinna (Finland),
>his family descent being partially Swede. However, his first
>sponsor was Ferruccio Busoni (half Italian, half German) and the
>best reception to his works was granted by the British.
>
>Try to think European, guys, and forget about this ethnic rubbish.
>There is no such thing in culture and in the arts!
I don'tknow about you guys but Sibelius was an Estonian, in fact
he lived next door to me, most of the time he spoke Estonian, and
his first sponsor was an Estonian, and all his friends were Estonians.
Oh, almost forgot, latest analysis shows that Ferruccio Busoni was half
Estonian
G
>
Julian Pardoe LADS LDN X1428
-->For the monolingual Russians who are in generally completely inproficient
-->in languages it must be very strange that there are peoples whose
-->citizens have several languages.
Reminds me of that old joke:
-- What do you call someone who speaks four languages?
A cosmopolitan.
-- What do you call someone who speaks two languages?
A bourgeois nationalist.
-- What do you call someone who speaks one language?
An internationalist.
-- jP --
Eugene Holman
>
>In article <3v4k2b$c...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>,
>BUhlemann <buhl...@aol.com> wrote:
>>I find the use of the word "nationality" in this thread rather misleading.
>> If someone wanted to use "ethnicity" to say Sibelius was Swedish, one
>>could argue that, but Sibelius' _nationality_ was definitely Finnish
>>because he was born in Finland, spoke Finnish, and said he was Finnish.
>
>he was born in Russian Empire, spoke Russian.
Actually, he, like many Finns of his generation, was proud of the fact that
he failed Russian as a school subject (i ochen', ochen' ploho govoril
chut'-chut' po-russki). His secondary school report card hangs in the
administrative building of the University of Helsinki.
>and there is no evidence he considered himself a Finn.
>
>
Regards,
Eugene Holman
Igor Chudov @ home
* Actually, he, like many Finns of his generation, was proud of the fact that
* he failed Russian as a school subject (i ochen', ochen' ploho govoril
* chut'-chut' po-russki). His secondary school report card hangs in the
* administrative building of the University of Helsinki.
Hm, I must be a Finn, because I completely failed in my Literature classes.
- Igor Chyydov.
Dmitrii Manin
In article <3v55gn$6...@tukki.cc.jyu.fi> ry...@tukki.cc.jyu.fi (Jarmo Ryyti) writes:
o For the monolingual Russians who are in generally completely inproficient
o in languages it must be very strange that there are peoples whose
o citizens have several languages.
??? Aren't we Russians used to live side by side with hundreds of
different peoples in the great multilingual Soviet Union?
o I just wonder if Tolstoy or other Russian "genius" understood anything
o but Russian?
Jarmo, I long since quit reading your articles, and the scope of your
ignorance just amazed me afresh. Haven't you *ever* seen the "Voina i
Mir" (it's a pretty big novel by this author, you know) with its
voluminous French passages? Or they translate the French into Finnish
in-line maybe?
--
- M
V sluchae oslableniya khrustyaschikh svoistv
produkt recomenduetsya podsushit'
----------------------------------------------------
Burime No. 347
PTICEVODU
Zachem, skazhi, kak maloe ditya
Ty zapiraesh' v kletki pevchikh ptax?
Oni poyut, glazenkami blestya,
No tol'ko ne na sovest', a na strax.
Kauko Saarinen
: To me "Sibelius" sounds more Latvian and Lithuanian:-)
: regards,
: jarmo
BTW
There are and have been many Finnish artists in Sweden. Some examples:
Arja Saijonmaa, singer.
Lasse Pöysti, artistic director of the Royal Theatre of Sweden.
M. A. Numminen, singer. Very extraordinary style of singing.
Jörn Donner, author, movie make etc. He has been a member of the Finnish
parliament for the last few years.
Jouko Turkka, movie maker etc.
You may easily find more of them. From the list only Arja Saijonmaa seems to
stay more or less permanently in Sweden today. Those else have returned home in
Finland after their contract has ended. If you listen to some radio station
in Sweden you will soon hear Arja Saijonmaa singing.
Best greetings,
Kauko Saarinen
Begemot I
>
> DragonFly wrote:
> : In article <3v4k2b$c...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>,
> : BUhlemann <buhl...@aol.com> wrote:
> : >I find the use of the word "nationality" in this thread rather misleading.
> : > If someone wanted to use "ethnicity" to say Sibelius was Swedish, one
> : >could argue that, but Sibelius' _nationality_ was definitely Finnish
> : >because he was born in Finland, spoke Finnish, and said he was Finnish.
> : ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> : he was born in Russian Empire, spoke Russian.
>
> Dragon was born in Soviet Union,speaks English and there
> is no evidence he is Russian.
However it is very clear that Jarmo is a Finn.
Begemot I
Igor R Sagdeev
>DragonFly wrote:
>: In article <3v4k2b$c...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>,
>: BUhlemann <buhl...@aol.com> wrote:
>: >I find the use of the word "nationality" in this thread rather misleading.
>: > If someone wanted to use "ethnicity" to say Sibelius was Swedish, one
>: >could argue that, but Sibelius' _nationality_ was definitely Finnish
>: >because he was born in Finland, spoke Finnish, and said he was Finnish.
>: ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
>: he was born in Russian Empire, spoke Russian.
>: and there is no evidence he considered himself a Finn.
>
>Dragon was born in Soviet Union,speaks English and there
>is no evidence he is Russian.
>
>jarmo
Moreover, his last name (Viznyuk) testifies that he is in fact
"Turko-Okrainian"
Cordially, Igor
Nikolay G. Shulga
<..>
> I don'tknow about you guys but Sibelius was an Estonian, in fact
> he lived next door to me, most of the time he spoke Estonian, and
> his first sponsor was an Estonian, and all his friends were Estonians.
>
> Oh, almost forgot, latest analysis shows that Ferruccio Busoni was half
> Estonian
Bullshit. Both were Jewish. I bet S. only spoke Estonian with you
because he was afraid of pogroms.
NS,
zaiadlyi antisemit.
Jarmo Ryyti
: In article <3v3lip$p...@accursio.comune.bologna.it>,
: Carlo Vitali <vom...@iperbole.bologna.it> wrote:
: >
: >>]>Eugene Holman <hol...@katk.helsinki.fi> wrote:
: >
: >>]> I don't know about all other guys, but Sibelius is Swede.
: >
: >Sibelius was born as a Russian subject in Hämeenlinna (Finland),
: >his family descent being partially Swede. However, his first
: >sponsor was Ferruccio Busoni (half Italian, half German) and the
: >best reception to his works was granted by the British.
: >
: >Try to think European, guys, and forget about this ethnic rubbish.
: >There is no such thing in culture and in the arts!
: I don'tknow about you guys but Sibelius was an Estonian, in fact
: he lived next door to me, most of the time he spoke Estonian, and
: his first sponsor was an Estonian, and all his friends were Estonians.
To me "Sibelius" sounds more Latvian and Lithuanian:-)
regards,
jarmo
Jarmo Ryyti
: In article <3v4k2b$c...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>,
: BUhlemann <buhl...@aol.com> wrote:
: >I find the use of the word "nationality" in this thread rather misleading.
: > If someone wanted to use "ethnicity" to say Sibelius was Swedish, one
: >could argue that, but Sibelius' _nationality_ was definitely Finnish
: >because he was born in Finland, spoke Finnish, and said he was Finnish.
: ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
: he was born in Russian Empire, spoke Russian.
: and there is no evidence he considered himself a Finn.
Dragon was born in Soviet Union,speaks English and there
is no evidence he is Russian.
regards,
Bogdan Kulik
writes:
:shev...@pegasus.unm.edu (Victor Oleksij Shevchuk) writes:
:
::: By the way, I am so uneducated in etymology, would you please enlighten me,
::: when did Ukraine become 'Ukraine'?
:
::Circa 3,500 BC, man.
:
:Oh, give up your unti-Ukrainian propaganda for g-d's sake. To say that 3,500
:years B.C., at the time when there were no Slavs, when all Northern Caucasuian
:tribes were still living in caves and hunting boars for life, there were still
:people who could predict that there would be people living in Ukraine (which means
:"province on the edge") 5 thousand years later, is anti-Ukrainian bulls..t.
Ukrainskoe slovo "kraina" na russkiy perevoditsya kak "strana" a ne "okraina".
K premeru horvatskie serby nazyvayut svoyu stranu Krainoj, sovsem ne zhelaya
skazat' chto ih strana "krajnyaya".
Vlad Rutenburg
>Victor Bazarov (vbaz...@imsisoft.com) wrote:
>: >Jarmo Ryyti (ry...@tukki.cc.jyu.fi) wrote:
>: >: Finnish-Russian-Jewish painter.
>: >However, he was conspicuously so good in portraying Ukrainian Cossacks.
Vlad Rutenburg
>In article <3ud29m$g...@tukki.cc.jyu.fi>, ry...@tukki.cc.jyu.fi says...
>>Ilja Repin is a famous Finnish Russian painter, who immigrated
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>Ilja Repin first of all Russian and only after that Finnish (or finnish?)
>painter :)
Ilya Repin was never Finnish, according to many sources including the famous
Americvan historian Isadora Duncan. In her memuars, she recalls her intimate
encounter with the paint, in th emiddle of wehich she lovingly asked him:
- Are you finish?
And he replied equally lovingly:
- No, but i am rushin'.
Vlad Rutenburg
>In article <holman-24...@fab24mac-8.pc.helsinki.fi>,
>Eugene Holman <hol...@katk.helsinki.fi> wrote:
>>In article <3uujl0$b...@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>, Dragon Fly wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Better tell us who else besides you knows
>>> these "scientists"?
>>>
>>
>>You asked for scientists, engineers, artists. I provided you with the names
>>of two Nobel Prize Winners (A. I. Virtanen, E. F. Sillanpää), two
>don't bother yourself, Holman.
>Even 20 silver coins are not
>worth of such an excruciating research.
>You are pitiful creature.
I guess Dragosha has lost another argument due to his ignorance.
Otherwise why would he totally abandon the subject matter and resort to personal
insults in his broken English?
>Sweating it out, heh?
Oh, I am sure he is shivering with angst at the thought of your brilliant attacks.
>Do you seriously think anyone would believe you dandruff-ridden purebred Sovok?
So, the list of "dandruff-ridden purebred Sovoks" (Viznyuk's code word for
people who do not share his enthusiasm for Soviet propaganda) has recently been
enlarged with Dima Volodin and Eugene Hollman. Who is next? Ronald reagan?
Butros Butros Galli? Charles heston? Can't wait to see..
>Cordially,
>Dragon
What a moron...
>>universally acclaimed authorities in computer science and artifical
>>intelligence research (T. Kohonen, K. Koskenniemi), the father of the
>>American skyscraper (Eliel Saarinen), the architect who designed both the
>>airport terminal at Washington D.C. and one of the most extraordinary
>>structures in the United States (the Gateway Arch in St. Louis), Eero
>>Saarinen, as well as one of the major symphonic composers of the twentieth
>>century (Jean Sibelius), the compiler of a major epic poem (Lönnrot, The
Vlad Rutenburg
>In article <3v4k2b$c...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>,
>BUhlemann <buhl...@aol.com> wrote:
>>I find the use of the word "nationality" in this thread rather misleading.
>> If someone wanted to use "ethnicity" to say Sibelius was Swedish, one
>>could argue that, but Sibelius' _nationality_ was definitely Finnish
>>because he was born in Finland, spoke Finnish, and said he was Finnish.
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>he was born in Russian Empire, spoke Russian.
>and there is no evidence he considered himself a Finn.
He spoke Russian? In which of your nightmares did that happen? Do you believe
every fantasy you see in your frequent drunk stupor states?
Vlad Rutenburg
>DragonFly wrote:
>: In article <3v4k2b$c...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>,
>: BUhlemann <buhl...@aol.com> wrote:
>: >I find the use of the word "nationality" in this thread rather misleading.
>: > If someone wanted to use "ethnicity" to say Sibelius was Swedish, one
>: >could argue that, but Sibelius' _nationality_ was definitely Finnish
>: >because he was born in Finland, spoke Finnish, and said he was Finnish.
>: ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>: he was born in Russian Empire, spoke Russian.
>: and there is no evidence he considered himself a Finn.
>Dragon was born in Soviet Union,speaks English and there
>is no evidence he is Russian.
This is unadultarated vicious slander against Dragon. I think he has grounds to
sue you for defomation of character. To claim that Dragon "speaks English" is
like claiming that pigs fly.
Maybe they do... but "nizen'ko-nizen'ko", as Viznyuk's ancestors would say.
dragon_fly
Bogdan Kulik <bku...@sbhep.physics.sunysb.edu> wrote:
>In article <fischDC...@netcom.com>, fi...@netcom.com (Vlad Rutenburg)
>writes:
>
>:
>::: By the way, I am so uneducated in etymology, would you please enlighten me,
>:
>::Circa 3,500 BC, man.
>:
>:Oh, give up your unti-Ukrainian propaganda for g-d's sake. To say that 3,500
>:years B.C., at the time when there were no Slavs, when all Northern Caucasuian
>:tribes were still living in caves and hunting boars for life, there were still
>:people who could predict that there would be people living in Ukraine (which means
>:"province on the edge") 5 thousand years later, is anti-Ukrainian bulls..t.
>
>K premeru horvatskie serby nazyvayut svoyu stranu Krainoj, sovsem ne zhelaya
>skazat' chto ih strana "krajnyaya".
K slovu skazat' "ukraina" == "u kraia" == "near edge".
Serbskaja "krajina" tak i nazyvaetsia, potomu chto ona "na kraju".
Russians called Ukrainians those Turkish nomadic tribes
who lived on the border of Russia/Rus'.
Cordially,
Dragon
Markku T Keinanen
> Hah, ha, ha, Holman, You sure find authoritative sources ! "Microsoft
> Encarta" ! Sheesh ... I think, living in Finland started to have
> negative impact on your intelligence.
This newsgroup has at least shown to me the real level of many Russians.
Markku
vad...@vms.huji.ac.il
> he lived next door to me, most of the time he spoke Estonian, and
> his first sponsor was an Estonian, and all his friends were Estonians.
>
> Estonian
>
And "other" half - lawer?
Best wishes,
Vadim
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>>
>
>
Leonid L. Delitsyne
mtke...@cc.helsinki.fi writes:
> This newsgroup has at least shown to me the real level of many Russians.
rather the limits of their patience.
Besides you know what? Where else could one meet so many Finns?
--
Sincerely yours,
Leonid Delitsin
M. Emmo Cummins
to America??? I saw it in Moscow last fall and IT WAS GREAT!! But
now the thread is only about something not related to Repin. I guess
I missed out.
Emmo Masha
Jarmo Ryyti
: What was going on alt.c-e.russia about Repin? Is the exhibit coming
The exhibition of his paintings is in Punkaharju.
U know near Savonlinna.
Eugene *fraer*
I never have doubts about intellectual abilities of any
nations (including Finns). But stubborn presistance of some
soc.culture.baltics partisipants in answering the idiot and
cross-posting their answers to soc.culture.russian started to
undermind my internationalizm.
Please, don't take this idiot seriously.
Please, don't cross-post you answers to other news groups.
Eugene Z
Gustav Akk
It is fun to read how you generalize from the few responders to
Dragon Fly to a whole nation, while not generalizing from Fly
to the Russian nation.
Similarly I could say that although I have never had any doubts about
intellectual abilities of any nations (incl. Russians), reading
Fly's postings has started to undermind my internationalism.
Got it? Why double standard?
G
>
>Eugene Z
>
>
dragon_fly
>>Eugene Holman <hol...@katk.helsinki.fi> wrote:
>>>In article <3uujl0$b...@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>, Dragon Fly wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Better tell us who else besides you knows
>>>> these "scientists"?
>>>
>>>You asked for scientists, engineers, artists. I provided you with the names
>>>of two Nobel Prize Winners (A. I. Virtanen, E. F. Sillanpää), two
>
>>don't bother yourself, Holman.
>>Even 20 silver coins are not
>>worth of such an excruciating research.
>>
>>You are pitiful creature.
>
>I guess Dragosha has lost another argument due to his ignorance.
>Otherwise why would he totally abandon the subject matter and resort to personal
>insults in his broken English?
>
>>Sweating it out, heh?
>
>Oh, I am sure he is shivering with angst at the thought of your brilliant attacks.
>
>>Do you seriously think anyone would believe you dandruff-ridden purebred Sovok?
>
>So, the list of "dandruff-ridden purebred Sovoks" (Viznyuk's code word for
>people who do not share his enthusiasm for Soviet propaganda) has recently been
>enlarged with Dima Volodin and Eugene Hollman. Who is next? Ronald reagan?
You perhaps expected me to name you as well, but well,
Rutenburg - face it:
you are only 1/2 purebred Sovok and even then the
trustworthy sources say you have only purebred father and [supposely]
Turko-Okrainian mother, which makes you even more inferior
than 100% purebred Sovok Borya Veytsman.
I hope you are not discriminated when
receiving your purebred Sovok's share of
foodstamps. Ah yeah, forgot - the share
may be actually proportional to parhatost',
not to actual purebredness..
Cordially,
Dragon
Mikhail Teterin
residing at a...@acsu.buffalo.edu wrote:
| It is fun to read how you generalize from the few responders to
|Dragon Fly to a whole nation, while not generalizing from Fly
|to the Russian nation.
|Similarly I could say that although I have never had any doubts about
|intellectual abilities of any nations (incl. Russians), reading
|Fly's postings has started to undermind my internationalism.
|Got it? Why double standard?
Hey, guys! Cool down! The moron is not worth the third post :-)
Unfortunately, we have to see his posts once in a while (those
who do not totally kill-file cretins) until somebody (or he himself)
sticks his nose into his periferial Black Hole...
-mi
--
И пусть никто не уйдёт обиженным...
-- Why is that 2 o'clock all the time?!
-- It is a manometer!!!
Vlad Rutenburg
Judging by the fact that you have totally abandoned the original argument and
have resorted to silly personal attacks, I assume you admit defeat.
As far as my ancestry goes, all normal people know that it is irrelevant in
judging people. But since you have started discussing my ancestry, let me
clarify your misconception. I have no Ukrainian nor "purebred Sovok" ancestry.
In fact, none of my ancestors have lived in Ukraine. My ancestry is "almost
purebred" Hebrew with a mixing of Swiss German, Polish, and Byelorussian. I hope
that clarifies the issue.
As far as my "share of foodstamps" goes, I have no idea if I would have been
discriminated against or not. Neither I nor any member of my
family has ever applied for them. When my mother could not find a job as a
linguist, she worked as a baby-sitter, cobol programmer, filing secretary,
etc. When I was a student, my income came from merit
scholarship and fellowships (during my Ph.D. years). Now I pay more taxes than
you make in salary.
Speaking of which, I recall your post in which you described your dream of
saving enough money to be able to go back to Russia, buy a fancy house, have
other Russian people work as your maids and servants, etc. How is your dream
coming along?
As far as your perhot' (dandruff) problem goes , it is very common among sovoks
like yourself, along with unbearable body odor. I recommend you to start using
T-Jell shampoo, take frequent baths (no, once a month is not enough!), and use
deodorants. It will make a huge difference in your social life, and you will
have more fun things to do than spend 15 hours per day trying to insult all
people of foreign ethnicity.
>Cordially,
>Dragon
With sincere loving concern,
Vlad