Why do the Russians hate Ukrainians?
TRUTCHI
>at them, but there is no hate involved.
>
>Some Ukrainians, especially ones from Toronto, do hate Russians.
>
>
So you are saying everything Russians have done to Ukrainians, they have done
out of that famous "brotherly love" they have for Ukrainians?????????
"I love you- here- let me take that food from you and your family so that
you die of starvation".
"I love you- you can't pray to your God anymore".
"I love you- you must give me all of your land".
"I love you- you must forget your own Ukrainian identity and use only a
Russian one".
"I love you- Ukraine is now part of Russia".
"I love you- forget about the four freedoms".
Etcetera............
I don't hate all Russians...only those who screwed Ukraine the first 300 plus
years, and those who are trying to do it now.
Michael
are the west ukrainians and there is a big difference amond us:(
Michael.(one can call me ukrainian from Kiev or east Ukraine)
Igor <ig...@Algebra.Com> wrote in message
news:slrn7a25s...@manifold.algebra.com...
>Russians? They don't hate Ukrainians. They sometimes laugh or poke fun
>at them, but there is no hate involved.
>
>Some Ukrainians, especially ones from Toronto, do hate Russians.
>
>There is a definite asymmetry there.
>
>igor
>
>In soc.culture.russian, Mykhaylo M. Mythrofanov <ro...@alter.pp.kiev.ua>
wrote:
>*
>* > You are absolutely correct.
>* > Though most Russians will deny it, the real question is why have the
>* > Russians
>* > *always* hated Ukrainians, even from the days of Kyivan Rus, the
>* > Russians hated
>* > Kyiv and Ukraine and attacked Kyiv in 1169 and destroyed most of the
>* > city and
>* > the people of Kyiv.
>* > Under the soviet period these Finno Ugric Tataro Mongols, now known as
>* > Russians, tried to destroy the whole Ukrainian nation.
>*
>*
>* Sorry, but not "tried to destroy"
>* right says "destroyed".
>*
>* $$$$ $$$$
>* $$$$ $$$$
>*
>* $$$ $$$
>* $$ $$
>* $$$ $$$
>* $$$$$$$$$$$$$$
>*
>*
>*
>
>
>--
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
>char*p="char*p=%c%s%c;main(){printf(p,34,p,34);}";main(){printf(p,34,p,34);
}
>
> \=/, _-===-_-====-_-===-_-==========-_-====-_
> | @___oo ( )_
> /\ /\ / (___,,,}_--= )
> ) /^\) ^\/ _) =__ Anything is good and useful if )
> ) /^\/ _) (_ )
> ) _ / / _) ( it's made of chocolate. )
> /\ )/\/ || | )_) (_ )
>< > |(,,) )__) ( http://www.algebra.com/~ichudov )
> || / \)___)\ (_ _)
> | \____( )___) )___ -==-_____-=====-_____-=====-___==
> \______(_______;;; __;;;
>
Michael
and Ukranians from Kiev or Kharkov.
ba...@hotmail.com
wrote:
>Hi, Igor. It is time to tell to everybody ukrainians from Toronto
>are the west ukrainians and there is a big difference amond us:(
>Michael.(one can call me ukrainian from Kiev or east Ukraine)
All you guys are eastern Ukraininas. A Ukrainian in the Canadian
west.
Andrij
Michael
vice versa?
Michael
<ba...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:36a169ea....@news.v-wave.com...
>On Sat, 16 Jan 1999 21:34:19 -0500, "Michael" <bmic...@sprint.ca>
>wrote:
>
>>Hi, Igor. It is time to tell to everybody ukrainians from Toronto
>>are the west ukrainians and there is a big difference amond us:(
>>Michael.(one can call me ukrainian from Kiev or east Ukraine)
>
>
>All you guys are eastern Ukraininas. A Ukrainian in the Canadian
>west.
>
>
>
>Andrij
>
to be a "middle" ukrainian:), smart ass.
Michael.
HECTOP MAXHO
Why Russian brothers are more native to you than guys from the West of
Ukraine ?
Is it personal preference or historical fact ? Or simply following Orwell,
you consider "all the people are equal, but some of them are more equal
than others" ?
So you consciously vote for your oppressors, ha ? I am not surprised
Ukrainian parliament
is full of communist bull-shit collected from "eastern ukrainians".
I have many Russian friends and all of them UNDERSTOOD we Ukrainians
are no more divided to eastern and western ones. If you are afraid to
appreciate
western Ukrainians as your brothers, do not call Ukrainian yourself.
Central Ukrainian, opportunist and follower of philosopher Mach,
5ATbKO MAXHO
Michael <bmic...@sprint.ca> wrote in article
<rCeo2.86224$c8.41...@hme2.newscontent-01.sprint.ca>...
vesel...@my-dejanews.com
Уривок з книги Романа Іваничука "На мар╠інесі" опублікованої в
харківському журналі "Березіль" ч.11-12 (1997)
----------------------------------
Думаю не раз:звідки взялася у сусіднього слов'янського народу така люта
ненависть до українців? Адже протягом усієї історії наш народ не вчинив
росіянам жодного зла: ніколи ми на них не нападали, віддали їм, зрештою, свою
землю, хліб, науку, культуру - з доброї волі чи ні, але ж віддали! А може,
ненавидять нас якраз за слабодухість, покору, адже раба ніхто не шанує - та
ще й такого, який мріє про волю. І яка ж то злоба мусить пройняти
рабовласника, коли невільник врешті здобуває свободу! Я розцінюю історичну,
а паче сучасну московську українофобію як національну трагедію Росії. Народ,
еліта якого у своїй переважній більшості буквально озвіріла з приводу
часткового розпаду імперії, демократичним стати не може і, залишаючись
ментально тоталітарним й ментально ослабленим, опиняється на узбіччі
світового суспільного розвитку, незважаючи на свій географічний огром.
Ненависть до народів, які визволилися від імперії, а особливо до України, без
якої імперія не може ні фізично, ні політично існувати, роз'їдає російський
національний організм, немов рак, - метастази ксенофобії уражають весь народ,
якому століттями вливали отруту виключності, чванства, месіанізму,
першорядності;зостаючись нарешті сам із собою - в біді, невігластві,
розпорошений по світу і ним зненавиджений, - він інших ін'єкцій для живлення
імперської ментальності, як ксенофобія, не знаходить. Я вже розповідав у
другій книзі спогадів("Дороги вольні і невольні")про свою подорож до Воркути
на зустріч з братом-каторжником. Ще ніколи в житті таким замкнутим і
зосередженим у собі я не бував: непевність самої дороги до місця зосередження
моторошних концтаборів, сумніви щодо духовного здоров'я брата, остаточне
звільнення від чадної ленінської облуди відчужували мене від світу, а ще
ятрило душу питання, яке потім сформулювала учителька Богдана Дмітрівна: за
що ж Україну так послідовно знищує Росія і в ім'я чого? Під час пересадки в
Москві я зайшов до якоїсь затхлої й дешевої їдальні пообідати. Я ще не знав,
що у Москві, якщо не хочеш нав'язувати сумнівних знайомств, треба виминати
поглядом людей (таку пораду вже в наш час дав Ю.Андрухович у своєму романі
"Московіада"); обідаючи, я мав в полі зору доволі пристойного чоловіка, що
сидів за сусіднім столиком навпроти за кухлем пива. Напевне, він уловив не
усвідомлене мною самим зацікавлення його особою і, як це прийнято в столиці
Росії, сприйняв за бажання з ним познайомитися. Не довго вагаючись, чоловік
узяв кухоль у руку і підсів до мене. Незнайомець хотів зі мною розмовляти, я
цього не бажав, а вступатися не мав куди.Він просвердлював мене очима:така
вже звичка в "старшого брата" - "выворачивать чужую душу наизнанку"; я
нітився і скупо відповідав на його питання. Це його почало дратувати, й він
кинув фразу, яка здалась мені провокаційною, а може, викликАв мене на
скандал: "Ты ненавидиш меня потому, что я русский!" Я ще не встиг придумати
стандартної відповіді на кшталт "всі народи рівні...лишь бы человек хороший",
як він сам відповів за мене:"Нас все ненавидят...Потому, что мы слишком
далеко зашли!" Чоловік залишив недопитий кухоль і вийшов з їдальні,
залишивши мене, сторопілого, за недоїденим обідом...Що це було: каяття чи
звинувачення? Каяття за свій народ, який загарбав півсвіту, не збудувавши
сбого власного дому, чи докір, що не надто ревно люблять невільники свого
благодійника? Одне слово, я швиденько полишив їдальню й загубився у вуличному
натовпі.
------------------------------------
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
Michael
HECTOP MAXHO <leva_z...@usa.net> wrote in message
news:01be41e0$95650d20$0f0614ac@pilipenko...
>I did not get your point, a big gun :)
>
>Why Russian brothers are more native to you than guys from the West of
>Ukraine ?
>Is it personal preference or historical fact ? Or simply following Orwell,
>you consider "all the people are equal, but some of them are more equal
>than others" ?
>So you consciously vote for your oppressors, ha ? I am not surprised
>Ukrainian parliament
>is full of communist bull-shit collected from "eastern ukrainians".
who were elected by whom?
"eastern ukrainians" your words, I rest my case:)
>I have many Russian friends and all of them UNDERSTOOD we Ukrainians
>are no more divided to eastern and western ones.
If you would listen to your russian friends more often it would be better:)
>If you are afraid to
>appreciate
>western Ukrainians as your brothers, do not call Ukrainian yourself.
Says who?
I "afraid"?! Afraid what? 15-20%% population of Ukraine
which consider themselves to be "more" ukrainian and "brave"
than rest 80%, 15-20% which even has the different dialect and church
from the rest of Ukraine. You must be kidding:)
>Central Ukrainian, opportunist and follower of philosopher Mach,
>5ATbKO MAXHO
I just could imagine Bat'ko and Leva acting in western ukraine:)
P.S. Batya, naftalinu tebe, ne zhalei naftalinu:)
Russian brothers have the different dialect too, but the same
church:) and longer history together:).
Michael.
M. L.
notice something strange about it ?"
Been to Ukraine recently. Stores have food but do people have money to buy it?
Nope. So it's no better situation than in RF. Anyway, for some reason economies
of every single former Soviet republic except for Baltic states are moving
backward while economies of former WP countries are moving forward.
Morale? Don't elect assholes into office.
HECTOP MAXHO wrote:
> Michael <bmic...@sprint.ca> wrote in article
> <OOuo2.38$j8.6...@hme2.newscontent-01.sprint.ca>...
>
> > If you would listen to your russian friends more often it would be
> better:)
>
> I see very large progress of Russian reforms, 22 Rubles for 1 dollar after
> 3rd currency devaluation,
> so that means MUCH MORE.
> And I see tens million of people starving without salaries. So did not you
> notice something strange about it ?
>
> Got milk :) ?
>
> > >If you are afraid to appreciate
> > >western Ukrainians as your brothers, do not call Ukrainian yourself.
>
> > Says who?
> > I "afraid"?! Afraid what? 15-20%% population of Ukraine
> > which consider themselves to be "more" ukrainian and "brave"
> > than rest 80%, 15-20% which even has the different dialect and church
> > from the rest of Ukraine. You must be kidding:)
>
> You're afraid your Russian opressors that they periodically did not
> distinguish
> "western Ukrainians" against "all the Ukrainians" and murdered them all.
>
> You wish to be recognized, to be other, to be more brotherly, to be more
> friendly,
> more submissive and more aware. NEVER "western" Ukrainians battled against
> "eastern" Ukrainians, is not it true ?
> On the contrary Denikin's White Army battled against my "Povstanska Armija
> batki Makhno", and then Frunze's Red Army shot from behind my cossacks
> conquered Perekop gulf. That is it how your brothers are "kidding".
>
> > I just could imagine Bat'ko and Leva acting in western ukraine:)
>
> Could you imagine Tukhachevsky acting in western russia ?
> Could you imagine Kaganovich acting in Dnieper- and Donbass- regions ?
> By the way, "honorable pensioner" Kaganovich died peacefully in his Moscow
> appartment in
> 1996.
>
> > P.S. Batya, naftalinu tebe, ne zhalei naftalinu:)
>
> That is your Kaganovich who needs some naphthalene to be adorned.
> My custom is to strew the head over with the ashes.
>
> > Russian brothers have the different dialect too, but the same
> > church:) and longer history together:).
>
> What about your Russian Orthodox churches, are there not two of them, with
> Moscow- and US-based head-quarters ?
>
> I do not measure my history with chronicles of Russian tzars, my history
> is being measured with the speed of saber strikes made by free cossack.
>
> > Michael.
>
> MAXHO
--
____ _ ____ __
/ ___| ___ ___ __| | | __ ) _ _ ___ \ \
| | _ / _ \ / _ \ / _` | | _ \| | | |/ _ \ (_) |
| |_| | (_) | (_) | (_| | | |_) | |_| | __/ _| |
\____|\___/ \___/ \__,_| |____/ \__, |\___| (_) |
|___/ /_/
P.S. If you don't see clearly what is says you
are not using FIXED WIDTH font.
M. L.
Unlike Cathlism, Orthodoxy doesn't have centralized leader. So there is nothing
wrong with having two headquarters for Russian Orthodox Church. But! There is
Patriarch of Constantinople who is only SYMBOLICALLY leader of every Orthodox
church.
HECTOP MAXHO wrote:
> What about your Russian Orthodox churches, are there not two of them, with
> Moscow- and US-based head-quarters ?
TRUTCHI
>church:) and longer history together:).
Russians not only have a different dialect than either eastern or western
Ukrainians- they have an entirely different language than Ukrainians, period.
The words that are identical are due to assimilation and occupation. If
Ukrainians had had a choice, they would have never had either happen to them.
That "longer history together" was not by choice- it was by force.
The "same church"????? The Russian Orthodox Church is a foreign Church on
Ukrainian soil. The "Ukrainian" Orthodox Church- Moscow Patriarchate is an
organ of Moscow, not of Kyiv. It does not serve in Ukraine's best interests.
Andrey....@get-lost-spammer.uni-ulm.de
[skip]
> who were elected by whom?
Selfproclaimed oligarchical state.
[skip]
> I "afraid"?! Afraid what? 15-20%% population of Ukraine
> which consider themselves to be "more" ukrainian and "brave"
> than rest 80%, 15-20% which even has the different dialect and church
> from the rest of Ukraine. You must be kidding:)
Yes, like one piece of .... put here: "Ukrainians surrenedered to allied
forces!" This fact made him extremily proud.
as they surrendered to Poland, Austria and Turkey inbetween.
[skip]
> P.S. Batya, naftalinu tebe, ne zhalei naftalinu:)
I vnutrivenno, vnutrivenno. Skazhi doctor propisal.
--
Andrey Nikolaev Ulm university,
Department of Biophysics. Germany.
Email: Andrey.Nikolaev@!get-lost-spammer!.uni-ulm.de
Substitute physik instead of !*! .
HECTOP MAXHO
> If you would listen to your russian friends more often it would be
better:)
I see very large progress of Russian reforms, 22 Rubles for 1 dollar after
3rd currency devaluation,
so that means MUCH MORE.
And I see tens million of people starving without salaries. So did not you
notice something strange about it ?
Got milk :) ?
> >If you are afraid to appreciate
> >western Ukrainians as your brothers, do not call Ukrainian yourself.
> Says who?
> I "afraid"?! Afraid what? 15-20%% population of Ukraine
> which consider themselves to be "more" ukrainian and "brave"
> than rest 80%, 15-20% which even has the different dialect and church
> from the rest of Ukraine. You must be kidding:)
You're afraid your Russian opressors that they periodically did not
distinguish
"western Ukrainians" against "all the Ukrainians" and murdered them all.
You wish to be recognized, to be other, to be more brotherly, to be more
friendly,
more submissive and more aware. NEVER "western" Ukrainians battled against
"eastern" Ukrainians, is not it true ?
On the contrary Denikin's White Army battled against my "Povstanska Armija
batki Makhno", and then Frunze's Red Army shot from behind my cossacks
conquered Perekop gulf. That is it how your brothers are "kidding".
> I just could imagine Bat'ko and Leva acting in western ukraine:)
Could you imagine Tukhachevsky acting in western russia ?
Could you imagine Kaganovich acting in Dnieper- and Donbass- regions ?
By the way, "honorable pensioner" Kaganovich died peacefully in his Moscow
appartment in
1996.
> P.S. Batya, naftalinu tebe, ne zhalei naftalinu:)
That is your Kaganovich who needs some naphthalene to be adorned.
My custom is to strew the head over with the ashes.
> Russian brothers have the different dialect too, but the same
> church:) and longer history together:).
What about your Russian Orthodox churches, are there not two of them, with
Moscow- and US-based head-quarters ?
I do not measure my history with chronicles of Russian tzars, my history
5ATbKO MAXHO
Could you count all your fingers and toes, kagalenok ?
I have respect to any opinion and I am trying to critisize it
using principles of argument that do consider an enemy as a human being
too.
But if you want it so much, I can reply more rude :
"Kagal" in Russian prison argo means "raped by gang".
By the way, has your remark anything in common with the thema of this
dispute ?
With anarchic salute,
Father Makhno
Michael Kagalenko <mkag...@lynx02.dac.neu.edu> wrote in article
<77u9kg$o...@lynx02.dac.neu.edu>...
> HECTOP MAXHO (leva_z...@usa.net) wrote
> ]I did not get your point, a big gun :)
>
> Of course, you don't. You are just max ho, a male prostitute. Go away,
> max ho.
>
>
>
> ]Why Russian brothers are more native to you than guys from the West of
5ATbKO MAXHO
> FYI:
> Unlike Cathlism, Orthodoxy doesn't have centralized leader. So there is
nothing
> wrong with having two headquarters for Russian Orthodox Church. But!
There is
> Patriarch of Constantinople who is only SYMBOLICALLY leader of every
Orthodox
> church.
>
> HECTOP MAXHO wrote:
>
with
> > Moscow- and US-based head-quarters ?
My opponent said that Russian Orthodox church has only one center in
Moscow,
comparatively to Ukraine having 3 Orthodox clerical centers and a couple of
Catholic.
I am an Orthodox, I consider the hostility between Orthodoxes and Catholics
as
the tragedy of the past, that had gone away. In fact only strong Ukrainian
church, Orthodox or Catholic, was a true origin of defense for my fellows.
Actually Ukrainians were baptized even before the church had been separated
to Orthodox and Catholic branches.
All these speculations of Russian youth about our common church has nothing
in common with historical facts, described in Russian (sic!) literature
published
before revolution. And there are many unknown facts, how much Ukrainians
(Malorosy)
contributed to Russian pre-Pushkin literature, language and ESPECIALLY
clerical life.
There were times when ALL senior clergymen in Russia were Ukrainians.
So let us Ukrainians decide what Ukrainian Christian life is and how it
goes on,
we deserve that COMPLETELY.
...Dostojevsky, Chekhov, Bulgakov and a number of others were born in
Ukraine.
They were not Ukrainians, but their childish reminiscences were the most
merry ones
in their life.
>Been to Ukraine recently. Stores have food but do people have money to buy
it?
>Nope. So it's no better situation than in RF. Anyway, for some reason
economies
>of every single former Soviet republic except for Baltic states are moving
>backward while economies of former WP countries are moving forward.
>Morale? Don't elect assholes into office.
>
You are right about hard times in Motherland...
The problem is not the lack of technologies - they sometimes supersede
American ones,
there are two major problems - corruption and cash flow. The economies of
Baltic states
are comparatively small to Ukrainian and they are properly insulated from
Russian market.
Baltic states are less corrupted because of strong national self-respect.
Communist paradigm
of COMMON PROPERTY is the main source of former and current corruption in
Ukraine.
Easily could be found the people, who OWN this common property, but own
temporarily,
so they do not have a bit of responsibility at all.
Cash flow is technical problem, but requiring persistent control,
investment activity and federal reserves.
Cash flow in Ukraine or Russia is under great influence of USD ( I mean
black-market economy).
These two factors disbalance and ruin fragile Ukrainian democracy, fragile
Russian democracy
and fragile Ukrainian-Russian friendship.
With anarchic salute,
true defender of Ukrainian farmers and shepherds,
5ATbKO MAXHO
kirill
Yeah, there are just tons of Russian Ukrainophobes spamming
soc.culture.ukrainian. Also, these hypothetical hateful
Russians deny any deaths of Ukrainians under Stalin.
Mike Davidchik
> FYI:
> Unlike Cathlism, Orthodoxy doesn't have centralized leader. So there is
nothing
> wrong with having two headquarters for Russian Orthodox Church. But! There is
> Patriarch of Constantinople who is only SYMBOLICALLY leader of every Orthodox
> church.
>
> HECTOP MAXHO wrote:
>
> > What about your Russian Orthodox churches, are there not two of them, with
> > Moscow- and US-based head-quarters ?
> > MAXHO
There are THREE Russian Orthodox Churches. In addition to the Moscow
Patriarch, there are two headquartered in North America. There is ROCOR
and OCA. These
three branches do not recognize the authority of each other and have
separate patriarchs. There are THREE branches of the Ukrainian Orthodox
Church in the Ukraine. Two of them do not recognize the Patriarch of
Moscow. Most of the Ukrainian Orhodox in North America belong to OCA
which has no affiliation with Moscow.
Ukrainian historians will disagree that they had the same Orthodox Church
as the Moscovites.
Mike Davidchik
Mike Davidchik
> I am an Orthodox, I consider the hostility between Orthodoxes and Catholics
> as
> the tragedy of the past, that had gone away. In fact only strong Ukrainian
> church, Orthodox or Catholic, was a true origin of defense for my fellows.
> Actually Ukrainians were baptized even before the church had been separated
> to Orthodox and Catholic branches.
>
> All these speculations of Russian youth about our common church has nothing
> in common with historical facts, described in Russian (sic!) literature
> published
> before revolution. And there are many unknown facts, how much Ukrainians
> (Malorosy)
> contributed to Russian pre-Pushkin literature, language and ESPECIALLY
> clerical life.
>
> There were times when ALL senior clergymen in Russia were Ukrainians.
>
> So let us Ukrainians decide what Ukrainian Christian life is and how it
> goes on,
> we deserve that COMPLETELY.
Your remarks about original Orthodoxy are accurate. Moscovy and Tsarist
Russia came into the picture several centuries after Ukraine and Belarus
had embraced Eastern Christianity. There was no Russian Orthodox
Church until Peter the Great and the Russian consolidation of Orthodoxy in
Ukraine and Belarus was originally met with much resistence until about
the 17th Century. This was continued during the Soviet times. From Peter
to the fall of Communism, the Russian Orthodox Church, Moscow
Patriarchiate, was an arm of the State. This is why the breakup has
resulted in several branches of Orthodoxy outside of Great Russia. This is
also why the Greek Catholic Church has re-emerged. The Tsarists and
Soviets did everything they could to eliminate them. The difference is
that the Western Ukraine was not russified for nearly as long as Belarus
or Eastern Ukraine. Belarus has forgotten that they also once had
independent Orthodox and Greek Catholic Churches. Eastern Ukraine is
heavily populated by ethnic Russians who think that everybody
"volunteered" to be part of the Russian Orthodox Church.
Mike
TRUTCHI
>heavily populated by ethnic Russians who think that everybody
>"volunteered" to be part of the Russian Orthodox Church.
Thank you for your very accurate account of the Ukrainian Orthodox Churchs.
While the OCA may have no ties to Moscow, however, there is great concern and
consternation that the recent Protocol signed by the between the OAC and the
Ukrainian Orthodox Church at Bound Brook has given our identity and
independence away to Patriarch Bartholomeus who is not an avid supporter of an
independent Ukrainian Orthodox church. He prefers Moscow be the center.
TRUTCHI
>Ukrainian Orthodox Church
Sorry....it should read OCA", not "OAC".
Yevgeniy Chizhikov
Mike Davidchik wrote:
> Your remarks about original Orthodoxy are accurate. Moscovy and Tsarist
> Russia came into the picture several centuries after Ukraine and Belarus
> had embraced Eastern Christianity.
Ha! Can you point me the date when Kievan mitropolit a long with whole Church
leadership, icon painters, church builders, and all church libraries moved from
Kiev to Vladimir?
> There was no Russian Orthodox
> Church until Peter the Great and the Russian consolidation of Orthodoxy in
> Ukraine and Belarus was originally met with much resistence until about
> the 17th Century.
Nonsence.
> This was continued during the Soviet times. From Peter
> to the fall of Communism, the Russian Orthodox Church, Moscow
> Patriarchiate, was an arm of the State.
You need to learn history. Russian Orthodox Church was no more arm of the state
than ANY other church. No more than Catholics in Spain, Anglicans in Britain,
Protestants in Sweden, and so on. Again, you diping into your Russophobic
nonsence. Church had been a major political tool in all countries. This is the
main reason for Protestanism, Anglicanism, and bunch of other independant
Churches.
> This is why the breakup has
> resulted in several branches of Orthodoxy outside of Great Russia. This is
> also why the Greek Catholic Church has re-emerged. The Tsarists and
> Soviets did everything they could to eliminate them. The difference is
> that the Western Ukraine was not russified for nearly as long as Belarus
> or Eastern Ukraine. Belarus has forgotten that they also once had
> independent Orthodox
In Catholic Poland. It was Church which had agree to sit quietly under Polish
Catholic rule while its people treated like dirt.
> and Greek Catholic Churches. Eastern Ukraine is
> heavily populated by ethnic Russians who think that everybody
> "volunteered" to be part of the Russian Orthodox Church.
Because IT IS all politics. Independant Orthodox Churches, along all Protestant
religions IS a result of emegence of indepednat states AND nationalism. With
emergence of nationalism it become important that each state had own church. Note
the emrgence of Anglican church. As well as emergence of Protestan churches in
independant German sity-coutries. Emergence of national religion with a head of
the church siting IN the own country had been ALWAYS a political tool to unite
the country and excape influence from the outside. it was mainly done by
POLITICIANS. It is nice rossy view of history you painting Mike, but it is not
correct. Second, why Belarusians still like Russians better than Poles? It
because Belarusians ALWAYS were treated as second class citizens in Poland.
Belarusians were Orthodox, and it automaticly close doors for them EVRYWHERE in
Poland. This was not the case with Russians. Russians treated Belarusians as
equals.
Russian Orthodox Church is no more politicized than Belarusian or Ukrainian
Orthodox church. They all created with NATIONALISM in mind.
Yevgeniy Chizhikov.
P.S. I hope that Belarus and Russia would finaly unite into one country, as it
was in Kieavan Rus days. Russia and Belarus must be together!!! Ukraine? If it
wish so. Belarusian people WISHED to unite with Russians! Roughly 80% of Russians
in Russia and Belarusians in Belarus support idea of the Union between both
countries! I happy to see that at least in some cases the clear thinking wins
over dumb nationalism.
5ATbKO MAXHO
overlooked something as usually.
Yevgeniy Chizhikov <y.chi...@popmail.csuohio.edu> wrote in article
<36A41E5D...@popmail.csuohio.edu>...
> Ha! Can you point me the date when Kievan mitropolit a long with whole
Church
> leadership, icon painters, church builders, and all church libraries
moved from
> Kiev to Vladimir?
In XII-XIII centuries Kyivan mitropolit had relocated to Moscow with all
this stuff you name it.
Vladimir mitropolit was not All-Russian mitropolit to that date, and I have
serious doubt he
even did really exist then as a mitropolit.
But not later than in 1414 Kyivan mitropolit declared Ukrainian church
independent from Muscovite center.
I mean of course Orthodox Ukrainian church.
In 1686 Constantinople patriarch Dyonisiy and Jerusalem patriarch Dosyfey
sold Ukrainian independent church
to Muscovite ambassador for 200 gold coins.
> > There was no Russian Orthodox
> > Church until Peter the Great and the Russian consolidation of Orthodoxy
in
> > Ukraine and Belarus was originally met with much resistence until about
> > the 17th Century.
> Nonsence.
Well, Ukrainian, Belarussian and Muskovite churches had own mitropolites
and were
not united by Sinode till the Peter the Greed. But actually (see above)
this
union was bought by the tzar Alex-Michael nach Moskau.
The resistance to this "great deed" and later confiscation of the church
property
for the sake of Emperor's utility did really exist.
Please read something about Ekaterine II and Rostov mitropolit-prisoner
Arseniy Matsievich.
> > This was continued during the Soviet times. From Peter
> > to the fall of Communism, the Russian Orthodox Church, Moscow
> > Patriarchiate, was an arm of the State.
> You need to learn history. Russian Orthodox Church was no more arm of
the state
> than ANY other church. No more than Catholics in Spain, Anglicans in
Britain,
> Protestants in Sweden, and so on. Again, you diping into your Russophobic
> nonsence. Church had been a major political tool in all countries. This
is the
> main reason for Protestanism, Anglicanism, and bunch of other independant
> Churches.
There are numerous samples when Ukrainian mitropolites opposed
the politics of officially recognized Ukrainian hetmans, Brukhovetsky or
Samoilovich.
No doubt Ukrainian Catholic church was a major origin of Ukrainian survival
under the pressure of Austrian, Polish, Nazi, and Commi occupational
governments.
Polish Catholic church was a major origin of Polish survival during Soviet
occupation.
Irish Catholic church is a major origin of Irish survival during Britain
occupation.
And Great Lama is the last but not the least sample of TRUE HOLY SPIRIT
AS AN OPPOSITION TO SUPPRESSION.
The most strong influence of Catholic church in the politics of Western
countries had been when these
countries did not exist. Actually these intrigues prevented from the
creation of
independent Western countries. That was the reason for Protestantism and
Aglicanism.
Following your logic the Saint Roman Empire exists right now. And there are
not 20 Arabian countries, but only one Muslim Empire.
Any leader did not invent national church, Chizhikov.
So it is not the church that is the tool of state leader, quite opposite -
the state leader
is the slave of Holy Spirit united his nation in one church.
For Jesus Christ or Mohammed the Empires were points of no return, despite
all the
differences in their personal destinies.
Of course you Russians think different.
> > This is why the breakup has
> > resulted in several branches of Orthodoxy outside of Great Russia. This
is
> > also why the Greek Catholic Church has re-emerged. The Tsarists and
> > Soviets did everything they could to eliminate them. The difference is
> > that the Western Ukraine was not russified for nearly as long as
Belarus
> > or Eastern Ukraine. Belarus has forgotten that they also once had
> > independent Orthodox
> In Catholic Poland. It was Church which had agree to sit quietly under
Polish
> Catholic rule while its people treated like dirt.
> ... Emergence of national religion with a head of
> the church siting IN the own country had been ALWAYS a political tool to
unite
> the country and excape influence from the outside. it was mainly done by
> POLITICIANS. It is nice rossy view of history you painting Mike, but it
is not
> correct. Second, why Belarusians still like Russians better than Poles?
It
> because Belarusians ALWAYS were treated as second class citizens in
Poland.
> Belarusians were Orthodox, and it automaticly close doors for them
EVRYWHERE in
> Poland. This was not the case with Russians. Russians treated Belarusians
as
> equals.
Actually Greek Catholic Church was the engine of Anti-Polish resistance.
Have you heard something about military events
in Lviv and Galychyna in 1918-1920 ? Do you have any idea about Ukrainian
Sichovi Striltsi ?
By the way Poland is different. And now there are more Belarussian priests
in Polish army
than in Belarussian one. I doubt there is at least one Belarussian priest
in Russian army,
despite a large Belarussian population of Smolensk and Briansk region.
Even in the darkest days of Polish occupation there were always ambassadors
of Belarussian and Ukrainian origin in Polish legislature.
Russian legislature in sincere meaning of this word did not exist then.
> Russian Orthodox Church is no more politicized than Belarusian or
Ukrainian
> Orthodox church. They all created with NATIONALISM in mind.
So are you agree that Kyivan church subordinated to Muskovite patriarch, is
the tool
of Muskovite nationalism ?
> Yevgeniy Chizhikov.
>
> P.S. I hope that Belarus and Russia would finaly unite into one country,
as it
> was in Kieavan Rus days. Russia and Belarus must be together!!! Ukraine?
If it
> wish so. Belarusian people WISHED to unite with Russians! Roughly 80% of
Russians
> in Russia and Belarusians in Belarus support idea of the Union between
both
> countries! I happy to see that at least in some cases the clear thinking
wins
> over dumb nationalism.
Viktor Tsoi sang : "My wmeste. Neponiatno w kakom."
I sincerely wish all the Russians to learn old Russian (in fact
Belarussian)
language, be as tolerate and hardworking as Belarussians and call for help
to Kyiv in hard days, like it been frequently in the past.
True and unfailing Slavic leader,
the defender of Ukrainian farmers and shepherds,
5ATbKO MAXHO
Bernd Senczuk
Цей Євгеній Хижак, посто не мита людина, най він тільки тут не відзивався.
Божевільня, більше не треба згадати.
5ATbKO MAXHO <barv...@hotmail.com> schrieb in Nachricht
01be4394$64375040$0f0614ac@pilipenko...///
GRycar
You are a moron. You do have a problem with understanding.
It seems that contrary to what occurs around you, you are determined to
appologize for lies and defend stupidity at all costs.
I do notice that you are not in Russia. I also do notice your rabid refusal to
benefit from a superior culture and learn the fundamentals of reason and
morality are legend.
Morality, moron, is the ability to differentiate between good and evil.
Morality is a precurser to understanding and knowledge. You, a modern primitive
who somehow escaped throught the mesh of time and appeared in a modern society
are ill equiped to comprehend, much less pontificate, about anything of
substance.
Mor to the point, you are a Mongol savage more equiped to push wheelboroughs
then attend a University in Germany.
Rostyslaw Lewyckyj
On Tue, 19 Jan 1999, Yevgeniy Chizhikov wrote:
> P.S. I hope that Belarus and Russia would finaly unite into one country, as it
> was in Kieavan Rus days. Russia and Belarus must be together!!! Ukraine? If it
> wish so. Belarusian people WISHED to unite with Russians! Roughly 80% of Russians
> in Russia and Belarusians in Belarus support idea of the Union between both
> countries! I happy to see that at least in some cases the clear thinking wins
> over dumb nationalism.
>
O.k. without necessarily agreeing with your hopes. Just a couple of
irreverent questions.
1. Where should the power center of this new country be?
2. Whose language should be the official language of this country?
M. L.
"2. Whose language should be the official language of this country?"
I hear from many people Belorussian is rarely used in Belorussia except for official
gov. business and nationalists.
M. L.
TRUTCHI
>this is what
>I hear from many people Belorussian is rarely used in Belorussia except for
>official
>gov. business and nationalists.
>
>
And why do you think Belarus rarely uses it's own language? Could it be that
the language of it's past and future occupier supplanted it's own?
The official name is Belarus, not Belorussia.
Mike Davidchik
<Pine.A41.3.95L.990121...@login0.isis.unc.edu>,
Rostyslaw Lewyckyj <urj...@email.unc.edu> wrote:
> On Tue, 19 Jan 1999, Yevgeniy Chizhikov wrote:
>
> > P.S. I hope that Belarus and Russia would finaly unite into one
country, as it
> > was in Kieavan Rus days.
This is COMPLETE LIE. Cheezie, you are really a Commie loving ignoramus.
They must have some real dopes in Cleveland.
Belarus and Russia were NEVER one country in the Kievan Rus days. There
was neither a Belarus or a Russia in this period. Belarus
was not incorporated into Russia until the 16th through 18th Centuries.
There was a loose confederation of Rus city-states under the Grand Prince
of Kiev
prior to the capture of Kiev by the Mongols. However, the various Rus tribes
located in modern day Belarus were mostly part of the Grand Duchy of
Lituania, Samogitia, and Rus, or the Lithuanian-Polish Commonwealth as
independent city-states. The Rus tribes of Belarus fought against the
Moscovites for three centuries. Regarding ties with the Kievy Rus, they
were under the Poles or Grand Duchy more than the Bela Rus were under the
Kievy Rus. In fact, parts of modern Ukraine were under the Duchy or Rech
more than Kiev. The other Rus principalities mostly just paid tribute or
inter-married their nobility with the Kievy Rus. They sometimes warred
with each other.
At no time was Belarus ever part of the same country as old Moscovy or
modern day Russia or modern Ukraine. Like Ukraine, Belarus was just
conquered in the 16th through 18th Centuries and made part of the Tsarist
Russian Empire.
As far as whether the Belarusians want to be Russians today. This is a
separate question. The current day population is not the same composition
as the old Duchy. The real Belarusians were wiped out by everybody or
left.
Any country that wants Lukashenka for a President, deserves anything it gets.
The people of this wretched country will just go on suffering like they
have for many centuries.
Mike
Yevgeniy Chizhikov
Mike Davidchik wrote:
> This is COMPLETE LIE. Cheezie, you are really a Commie loving ignoramus.
> They must have some real dopes in Cleveland.
I can show you my Belorussian passport, and I know what my family in Belarus
want. You should stick with Amazon, neither of view lived a day in supposedly you
country, yet you open your mouth. What kind of stakes you have in the future of
Belarus? Well, except your personal ego, you have non. Belarus had been under
rule of Belorussian nationalist for 5 years, they were not better than
Lukashenko, in fact even worse. Why? Because Belorussian nationalist and
Lukashenko are born and bread by one system. Trust me, the same people who rule
Belarus in 1970, rule Belarus today. It is not Communists, it is Homo Politicus.
At least Lukashenka attempts to do something. 5 years of rule of nationalist was
more like dead end era of Soviet leader Leonid Brezhnev. Everything was quite
like in a swamp.
Yevgeniy Chizhikov.
TRUTCHI
>rule of Belorussian nationalist for 5 years, they were not better than
>Lukashenko, in fact even worse. Why?
The answer is obvious. Correcting 70 years of Russian mismanagement cannot be
fixed in 5 years, nor in 20, just as in any country influenced by communism.
The mentality of having the government do some things for a person has to be
deleted, and a new way of thinking has to be establihed- one that is as far
removed from Russia as possible.
>Trust me, the same people who rule
>Belarus in 1970, rule Belarus today. It is not Communists, it is Homo
>Politicus.
>At least Lukashenka attempts to do something. 5 years of rule of nationalist
>was
>more like dead end era of Soviet leader Leonid Brezhnev. Everything was quite
>like in a swamp.
I agree...the same people, with the same way of backwards thinking, are
still in charge. Until these people are removed from power and the younger
people who want to change the system come into play, nothing good can come of
Lukashenka. He wants to turn the clock back and be the next Stalin. This is not
progress- this is damnation.
Edward
ignorance.
Are Russians really Slavs??? Who cares? I don't care if I'm originally a
Slav.
What I hate , if anything, is IGNORANCE. Everyone of us whether Russian,
Ukrainian, Jewish etc.....suffered not only in this century, but throughout
history.
Who is to blame.? Our politicians, special interest groups, historians and
the media,
the super rich elite( s.i.g.) ....The oldest remains of a human in Europe
have been discovered in Ukraine. Ukraine has been recognized recently as
the oldest country
in Europe. Why does the Russian language sound simmilar to the Slav's. A:
Because Russians were once Ukrainians who decided to leave Ukraine .I'm
running on and on-- quit emotional really. I'm a Ukrainian Nationalist
alright, but to a certain extent.
I admire Ukrainian Nationalism and look at Russian and Jewish Nationalism
with
interest as well. I guess what I have learned is that we are all the same
really.
We all want an identity that we can call our own. However, only Ukrainians
are concerned with true historical facts which we alone must
rewrite.Ukrainians are not
concerned with JUSTICE(like others), because we will never receice it.
kirill <kir...@chinook.physics.utornto.ca> wrote in article
<36A38F...@chinook.physics.utornto.ca>...
Amazons
>
> Why do Ukrainians hate Russians? They don't!!!!! What they hate is there
> ignorance.
Not only their ignorance, but what they have done to the Ukrainian
nation during 300 years of barbarous and brutal occupation during which
time they murdered millions of Ukrainian men, women and children.
> Are Russians really Slavs??? Who cares?
Anyone who is interested in ethnographics, history and culture.
> I don't care if I'm originally a Slav.
So what, neither do I. But if you were originally a Slav
what do you think that you have evolved into now? An Anglo? :-)
> What I hate , if anything, is IGNORANCE.
Now you are contradicting yourself. You just told us that you were
happy being ignorant of your ethnic roots and the ethnicity of the
Russian people. Can you please make up your mind. Or is your IGNORANCE
one of choice? :-)
> Everyone of us whether Russian,
> Ukrainian, Jewish etc.....suffered not only in this century, but throughout
> history.
What does that have to do with ethnicity, all nations have had conflicts
and
their peoples have suffered at one time or other.
> Who is to blame.? Our politicians, special interest groups, historians and
> the media, the super rich elite( s.i.g.) ....
Now you're off on a tangent again, can't you stick to the subject?
> The oldest remains of a human in Europe have been discovered in Ukraine.
> Ukraine has been recognized recently as the oldest country in Europe.
Interesting, what are your sources?
> Why does the Russian language sound simmilar to the Slav's.
Because it is a Slavic language which was imposed on the Finno Ugric
inhabitants of what is today Eurpean Russia. BTW in the Russian
Federation there are up to 100 different languages spoken.
> A: Because Russians were once Ukrainians who decided to leave Ukraine.
Ha, ha, ha what kind of teachers taught you that crap? You better get
yourself
some Ukrainian history books and do some serious reading before
sputtering
out this sort of *IGNORANCE*!!!
> I'm running on and on-- quit emotional really.
Right, emotional stupidity.
> I'm a Ukrainian Nationalist alright, but to a certain extent.
I seriously doubt it. You sound like someone who is quite confused.
> I admire Ukrainian Nationalism and look at Russian and Jewish Nationalism
> with interest as well. I guess what I have learned is that we are all the same really.
Now you are really showing your ignorance.
> We all want an identity that we can call our own.
We do? Speak for yourself, most of us have an identity which we get
from
who we are by birth.
> However, only Ukrainians are concerned with true historical facts which we alone must
> rewrite.Ukrainians are not
> concerned with JUSTICE(like others), because we will never receice it.
You are sounding a bit incoherent, you said that you received two
degrees from
the University of Toronto? In what? Smoking dope?
Olga408
Russia (still the same ol' Moscovia with a new name) was created as a militaristic empire. And as any empire Russia does its best to hold the territory together by simple lies and myths. Brainwashing is everything that can keep the big clumsy body from breaking. This is true for many big countries. Russia has just been one of the most blatant liars toward everyone, including its own citizens. And the hatred toward Ukraine is due to this constant brainwashing. Every day (especially right now) our idiot box bombards our brains with absolutely destructive disinformation and propaganda. Lately our TV "news" for every day has been pouring trashy dirty lies on the Ukrainians as something proved and true. Each day Russians are persuaded that "all Ukrainians are Nazi", "that the Ukraine is NO state or government at all", that "Ukraine is part of Russia", etc. It's no surprise that with such daily pressure Russians feel negative toward Ukrainians. I remember this politics for the whole life I've been living. I can't think of a TV episode that would say anything positive about Ukraine on Russian television. At school Russian kids have been taught as if Ukrainians betrayed Russia and are under Poles, as if Ukrainian is not a true language, but a "Polish-spoiled Russian", blah-blah. The Greek-Catholic Church has been claimed to be Nazi because it's on the other side. Any Orthodox Christian denomination is claimed to be "bad" if they don't want to subject to Moscow. The hatred is very systemic and is not just to Ukraine. It's not Ukraine, it's just that Moscow has to do it because otherwise the empire won't last for too long.
Oleg Smirnov
<news:c5b19ad2-a522-4501...@googlegroups.com>
Read the Wikipedia.
Maxopka
On Sunday, 23 March 2014 05:24:13 UTC-5, Oleg Smirnov wrote:
> Olga408,
>
> <news:c5b19ad2-a522-4501...@googlegroups.com>
Read the Wikipedia.
Smearnov, be more specific, Ems ukaz or Valuev Cirtcular ???
Its on Wikipedia, and self-explanatory as to why Ukrainians
are not in love with Ugro-Fino-Kacapo-Mongpls.
Ukrainians love A.Sakharov's Russia, Putin,s "Rassijskaya
Federcja" smells bad like Valuevs ukaz
>> > it's just that Moscow has to do it because otherwise the
>
> > empire won't last for too long.
>
>
>
> Looks like a psycho, or hardcore trolling.
maxopka
Oleg Smirnov
<news:09d7a53a-a9a2-4e6c...@googlegroups.com>
> On Sunday, 23 March 2014 05:24:13 UTC-5, Oleg Smirnov
> ??? Its on Wikipedia, and self-explanatory as to why
> Ukrainians are not in love with Ugro-Fino-Kacapo-Mongpls.
And why it's disturbing for a Canuck?
> Ukrainians love A.Sakharov's Russia, Putin,s "Rassijskaya
> Federcja" smells bad like Valuevs ukaz
Kacapo-Mongpls love 'A.Sakharov's Russia' is a clear sign
that something is indeed wrong with 'A.Sakharov's Russia'.
Maxopka
read Wikipedia ,here it is you kacap cocroach.
maxopka
The Valuev Circular (Russian: Валуевский циркуляр, Valuyevskiy tsirkulyar; Ukrainian: Валуєвський циркуляр, Valuievs’kyi tsyrkuliar) of 18 July 1863 was a secret decree (ukaz) of the Minister of Internal Affairs of the Russian Empire Pyotr Valuev (Valuyev) by which a large portion of the publications (religious, and literature used for school training) in Ukrainian language was forbidden.
The Circular has put the reason for the growing number of textbooks in Ukrainian, and beginner-level books in Ukrainian with "the Poles' political interests" and the "separatist intentions of some of the Little Russians". The Circular also stated that "no separate Little Russian language ever existed, doesn't exist, and couldn't exist", and that the Little Russian is nothing more than the "General Russian" spoiled by Polish influence.
The Circular ordered the Censorship Committees to ban the publication of religious texts, educational texts, and beginner-level books in Ukrainian, but permitted publication of literature in that language.
Further restrictions on Ukrainian language were placed by the Ems Ukaz in 1876, which completely prohibited the usage of the language in open print.
Oleg Smirnov
<news:aeb377a6-1c57-4748...@googlegroups.com>
> read Wikipedia ,here it is you kacap cocroach.
>
> maxopka
>
>
> The Valuev Circular (Russian: Валуевский циркуляр,
Were 'the Russians' the authors of it?
Is this exclusively 'Russian' feature?
The commitment to common 'standard language' was a
typical policy in the European countries that had a
variety of dialects, in the 18 and 19th centuries.
The authorities in some other countries continued
to enforce these policies in the 20th century too:
<http://tinyurl.com/nk8ax3s>.
u2
danilow
> spadaj putinoidzie
>
Ляхи геть з украинськой группы.
Maxopka
> Olga408,
>
> Looks like Putin is a psycho, or hardcore trolling.
http://images63.fotosik.pl/827/9e92c806eb225eabgen.jpg
denis.ch...@gmail.com
> До теми.
> Уривок з книги Романа Іваничука "На мар╠інесі" опублікованої в
> харківському журналі "Березіль" ч.11-12 (1997)
>
> ----------------------------------
>
> Думаю не раз:звідки взялася у сусіднього слов'янського народу така люта
> ненависть до українців? Адже протягом усієї історії наш народ не вчинив
> росіянам жодного зла: ніколи ми на них не нападали, віддали їм, зрештою, свою
> землю, хліб, науку, культуру - з доброї волі чи ні, але ж віддали! А може,
> ненавидять нас якраз за слабодухість, покору, адже раба ніхто не шанує - та
> ще й такого, який мріє про волю. І яка ж то злоба мусить пройняти
> рабовласника, коли невільник врешті здобуває свободу! Я розцінюю історичну,
> а паче сучасну московську українофобію як національну трагедію Росії. Народ,
> еліта якого у своїй переважній більшості буквально озвіріла з приводу
> часткового розпаду імперії, демократичним стати не може і, залишаючись
> ментально тоталітарним й ментально ослабленим, опиняється на узбіччі
> світового суспільного розвитку, незважаючи на свій географічний огром.
> Ненависть до народів, які визволилися від імперії, а особливо до України, без
> якої імперія не може ні фізично, ні політично існувати, роз'їдає російський
> національний організм, немов рак, - метастази ксенофобії уражають весь народ,
> якому століттями вливали отруту виключності, чванства, месіанізму,
> першорядності;зостаючись нарешті сам із собою - в біді, невігластві,
> розпорошений по світу і ним зненавиджений, - він інших ін'єкцій для живлення
> імперської ментальності, як ксенофобія, не знаходить. Я вже розповідав у
> другій книзі спогадів("Дороги вольні і невольні")про свою подорож до Воркути
> на зустріч з братом-каторжником. Ще ніколи в житті таким замкнутим і
> зосередженим у собі я не бував: непевність самої дороги до місця зосередження
> моторошних концтаборів, сумніви щодо духовного здоров'я брата, остаточне
> звільнення від чадної ленінської облуди відчужували мене від світу, а ще
> ятрило душу питання, яке потім сформулювала учителька Богдана Дмітрівна: за
> що ж Україну так послідовно знищує Росія і в ім'я чого? Під час пересадки в
> Москві я зайшов до якоїсь затхлої й дешевої їдальні пообідати. Я ще не знав,
> що у Москві, якщо не хочеш нав'язувати сумнівних знайомств, треба виминати
> поглядом людей (таку пораду вже в наш час дав Ю.Андрухович у своєму романі
> "Московіада"); обідаючи, я мав в полі зору доволі пристойного чоловіка, що
> сидів за сусіднім столиком навпроти за кухлем пива. Напевне, він уловив не
> усвідомлене мною самим зацікавлення його особою і, як це прийнято в столиці
> Росії, сприйняв за бажання з ним познайомитися. Не довго вагаючись, чоловік
> узяв кухоль у руку і підсів до мене. Незнайомець хотів зі мною розмовляти, я
> цього не бажав, а вступатися не мав куди.Він просвердлював мене очима:така
> вже звичка в "старшого брата" - "выворачивать чужую душу наизнанку"; я
> нітився і скупо відповідав на його питання. Це його почало дратувати, й він
> кинув фразу, яка здалась мені провокаційною, а може, викликАв мене на
> скандал: "Ты ненавидиш меня потому, что я русский!" Я ще не встиг придумати
> стандартної відповіді на кшталт "всі народи рівні...лишь бы человек хороший",
> як він сам відповів за мене:"Нас все ненавидят...Потому, что мы слишком
> далеко зашли!" Чоловік залишив недопитий кухоль і вийшов з їдальні,
> залишивши мене, сторопілого, за недоїденим обідом...Що це було: каяття чи
> звинувачення? Каяття за свій народ, який загарбав півсвіту, не збудувавши
> сбого власного дому, чи докір, що не надто ревно люблять невільники свого
> благодійника? Одне слово, я швиденько полишив їдальню й загубився у вуличному
> натовпі.
>
> ------------------------------------
>
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нет никакой ненависти.
просто, как бы сказать, с каждым майданом и скачком кастрюли усиливается чувство брезгливости, ну и персон с неадекватными их уровню компетенций запросами "почему-то" ассоциируют с хохлами.
Наверное это случайность :)