When was Chuvash introduced to the Chuvashia, and what language did it displace?
2.7182818284590...
languages of Turkey, Uzbekistan, and even Mongolia. After all, the
Mongolian and Turkic languages are in the Altaic family of languages.
However, the Chuvash are very European looking and white with light
colored eyes. They don't resemble the Turkish of Istanbul or the
Mongolian featured Kazakhs/Uzbeks. When was Chuvash introduced to the
Chuvashia, and what language did it displace?
Since Chuvashia is located north of the Caspian Sea and Western
Kazakhstan, i would think that they spoke a Slavic language.
Harlan Messinger
> Chuvash is a very distinctive Turkic language, and it's related to the
> languages of Turkey, Uzbekistan
If it's a Turkic language, then you are belaboring the obvious.
, and even Mongolia. After all, the
> Mongolian and Turkic languages are in the Altaic family of languages.
1. After all *what*? You haven't said anything that one would follow
with a statement beginning "after all".
2. The reality of a Altaic grouping is controversial.
Yusuf B Gursey
wrote:
> Chuvash is a very distinctive Turkic language, and it's related to the
it is indeed a Turkic language and a very distinctive one, but not
closely related to the Turkish of Turkey and environs, neither closely
related are Uzbek, or any other Turkic language in general. Chuvash is
a descedant of branch of Turkic that branched off early, some 2000
years ago, give or take a few centuries. there s some debate on the
exact timing.
> languages of Turkey, Uzbekistan, and even Mongolia. After all, the
> Mongolian and Turkic languages are in the Altaic family of languages.
the Altaic Theory remains unproven.
> However, the Chuvash are very European looking and white with light
> colored eyes. They don't resemble the Turkish of Istanbul or the
there are quite a number of very light skinned, blond and light
colored eyed Turks of Turkey and evirons. membership in a tribe in
Turkic tradition was dependent on the male line only and there was a
tradition of marrying from outside of one's tribe, and in general,
anyone that adopted a Turkic language and customs were eventually
accepted and assimilated.
> Mongolian featured Kazakhs/Uzbeks. When was Chuvash introduced to the
> Chuvashia, and what language did it displace?
Cuvash is a descendant of Volga Bulghar, presumabely that of the
peripheral tribes which did not adopt Islam or were only weakly
influenced by it. the Volgha Bulghars were centered in what is now
Tataristan, but were Kypchakized (a mainstream Turkic language)
gradually after the Mongol period. the Volga Bulghars came to the
region around in the 8th cent. escaping the formation of the Khazar
Empire (who spoke a similar language, but were ruled by a dynasty
stemming from that of the Asiatic Turks) from the Kuban region and
from what is now the Ukraine. the Bulghars are thought to have been a
branch of (or related to) the European Huns, who came into the region
circa the 4th cent. . the immediate neighbors of the Chuvash are the
Mari and Mordovinian, and also other Uralic groups, and it is thought
that there is an Uralic substartum in Chuvash. so the Volga Bulghars /
Chuvash displaced and assimilated mostly the Uralic people of the
region.
Yusuf B Gursey
wrote:
again, what on earth does this have to do with soc.culture.indian ???
Peter T. Daniels
> On Nov 3, 10:48 am, "2.7182818284590..." <tangent1...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> again, what on earth does this have to do with soc.culture.indian ???
Don't knock yourself out piling detail upon detail, addendum upon
addendum for this well-known troll. It suckered us into answering
twice today.
Yusuf B Gursey
nevertheless he provides me with an opportunity to chit chat about
subjects that I like.
Yusuf B Gursey
> wrote:
>
> again, what on earth does this have to do with soc.culture.indian ???
and you always confuse language with genetics.
Yusuf B Gursey
Enc.of Islam II (Online Edition) by I. Hrbek
<<
Bulgha:r , in Islamic literature the name of a Turkic people by whom
two states, one on the Volga, the other on the Danube, were founded in
the early middle ages.
Early history:
The original Bulgha:rs seem to have arrived in the south Russian
steppes with one of the Hunnic waves. They are mentioned for the first
time by Joannes Antioch. (Müller, Fragm. Hist. Graec. iv, 619) in the
year 481 A.D., when they helped the Emperor Zeno in his fight against
the Goths. The centre of the Bulgha:r country was then the steppes in
the vicinity of the Kuban river and the Maeotis (Azov Sea), but some
of their hordes dwelled also in the region of lower Danube and in the
Caucasus. In the Byzantine chronicles their original country, Kuban,
is known as Great Bulgaria (Theophanes, Nicephorus). After the death
of Kha:n Kuvrat in 642 A.D. the unity of these Bulgha:rs was brought
to an end, probably under the pressure of the growing power of the new
Khazar kingdom.
...
The third and smallest group had retreated along the Volga to the
north (this fact is now confirmed by archaeological data) and settled
down by the confluence of the rivers Kama and Volga. There they
subjugated the Finnish aboriginal population and founded a new state.
>>
Ibn Fadlan reports that the Volga Bulghar state was decentralized with
subordinate kings frequently at odds with the principle ruler
(yIlta:war < turkic elteber ; ami:r after the adoption of Islam). some
of these groups escaped islamization while taking refuge on the other
side of the Volga. these later became the Chuvash. exactly which group
is debated and unclear. the Kazan Tatars claim the principle territory
of the Volga Bulghar State along with its Islamic heritage, while the
Chuvash rightly claim its language.
David Librik
>On Nov 3, 1:53=A0pm, "Peter T. Daniels" <gramma...@verizon.net> wrote:
>> Don't knock yourself out piling detail upon detail, addendum upon
>> addendum for this well-known troll. It suckered us into answering
>> twice today.
>nevertheless he provides me with an opportunity to chit chat about
>subjects that I like.
Thank you for doing so. It is exactly these lengthy explanatory
articles on linguistic questions that I enjoy sci.lang for, even
when I didn't ask the question.
It would be nice to get chitchatters from other areas of linguistics,
but we definitely have historical linguistics of the Near East covered.
(My problem with the Linguist list is that nobody chitchats. I am
aware that this is intentional.)
- David Librik
lib...@panix.com