Barış Akarsu Lyrics
pro...@hotmail.com
I saw two video clips of Barış Akarsu "Vurdum En Dibe Kandar" and
"Islak Islak". I'm sorry, being from way up north-west of Turkiye, my
knowledge of Turkish words is extremely limited. I couldn't find any
English translation on the web. I'm not asking anyone here to waste
time to give me such translations. But I'd be grateful if someone
could be so kind as to at least give me an idea of what the artist
sings about in the two songs below:
Vurdum en dibe kadar
Büyülü gölgelerden
Ruhuma akan zehir
Kandırır gözlerimi
Sahte bir dünya verir
Ateşlerle uyandım
Yangın her yeri sarar
Gördüğüm acılarla
Vurdum en dibe kadar
Her yerde ölüm tutar saatler
Kan kusmuş yaralanmış şehirler
Alışılan zamanla dokunmayan
Sıradan parçalanmış resimler
Topladım avucumda kaderim
Bir demet gülde arsız dikenim
En yüksek dağların tepesinden
Boşluğa savrulur da giderim
Above I can only recognize the word "kadar" as a family, last name in
Hungarian (where "kad" means "bath").
Islak Islak - Barış Akarsu
Gecenin nemi mi düşmüş gözlerine?
Ne olur ıslak ıslak bakma öyle
Saçını dök sineme derdini söyle
Yeter ki ıslak ıslak bakma öyle
Sürerim buluttan tarlaları
Yağmurlar ekerim göğün göğsüne
Güneşte demlerim senin çayını
Yüreğimden süzer öyle veririm
Ben feleğin şu çarkına çomak sokarım
Ben feleğin tekerine çomak sokarım
Yeter ki ıslak ıslak bakma öyle
Above, I can only recognize the word "Guenesch". It must be Turkish
for "sun". In the beginning of the third movement "The Ancient/Giants
Under the Sun" of Yes's "Tales from Topographic Oceans" from 1973, Jon
Anderson recites the name of the sun in about a dozen languages
belonging to as many civilisations, and one among them is "Guenesch".
Thank you!
Acephale Lemar
> Aferim,
What do you say? First, this is wrong, "aferin" means:
Congratulations!
Maybe you intended to say "efendim" in the sense of "dear folks/ladies
and gentlemen"?
> I saw two video clips of Barış Akarsu "Vurdum En Dibe Kandar" and
> "Islak Islak". I'm sorry, being from way up north-west of Turkiye, my
> knowledge of Turkish words is extremely limited. I couldn't find any
> English translation on the web. I'm not asking anyone here to waste
> time to give me such translations. But I'd be grateful if someone
> could be so kind as to at least give me an idea of what the artist
> sings about in the two songs below:
>
> Vurdum en dibe kadar
>
> Büyülü gölgelerden
from bewithched shadows(gölgeler)
> Ruhuma akan zehir
runs(akan) the poison(zehir) into my soul
> Kandırır gözlerimi
deceives my eyes(gözlerimi)
> Sahte bir dünya verir
shows a false/unreal (sahte) world
> Ateşlerle uyandım
Waked up with "fevers" (not fires, ates would be both, depends from
context)
> Yangın her yeri sarar
flames (alevler= flames) cover all places
> Gördüğüm acılarla
due to seen aches (by me)
> Vurdum en dibe kadar
IMO is "vurdum" without a sense, "vardim"= arrived seems useful,
common.
I suggest that he means: I don't accept any borders/ I practise zero
tolerance for murderers.
Or: I'm stranded on the ground= abyyss.
> Above I can only recognize the word "kadar" as a family, last name in
> Hungarian (where "kad" means "bath").
"kadar"= untill.
vurmak= hit, beat someone/something, en dibe= to the deepest floor,
Search for "sesli sözlük", an online dictionary and "English Fast
Dictionary" for your first step in Turkish.
Usually it's difficult to translate poetical texts, so I didn't
translated, but gave you some hints.
> Islak Islak - Barış Akarsu
>
> Gecenin nemi mi düşmüş gözlerine?
> Ne olur ıslak ıslak bakma öyle
> Saçını dök sineme derdini söyle
> Yeter ki ıslak ıslak bakma öyle
>
> Sürerim buluttan tarlaları
> Yağmurlar ekerim göğün göğsüne
gök-->gögün= heaven; gögüs-->gögsüne= breast
BUT yagmurlar= rains and ekerim= I'll sowing is only readable as
metaphor.
> Güneşte demlerim senin çayını
cay= tea, demlemek= soak, and this _on_ the sun.
> Yüreğimden süzer öyle veririm
>
> Ben feleğin şu çarkına çomak sokarım
> Ben feleğin tekerine çomak sokarım
> Yeter ki ıslak ıslak bakma öyle
>
> Above, I can only recognize the word "Guenesch". It must be Turkish
> for "sun". In the beginning of the third movement "The Ancient/Giants
Correct.
> Under the Sun" of Yes's "Tales from Topographic Oceans" from 1973,
> Jon
> Anderson recites the name of the sun in about a dozen languages
> belonging to as many civilisations, and one among them is "Guenesch".
Interesting, I'm not familiar with Yes, but can you tell me where I can
find the lyric of this song?
"islak" means damp, wet, here it's used in a figurative sense, as an
idiom which I have never heard before, so I only can conclude from the
context that he means: Don't look so sad/unbelievingly at me (due to
weeping?)
pro...@hotmail.com
> Interesting, I'm not familiar with Yes, but can you tell me where I can
> find the lyric of this song?
Thank you very much for helping me and I apologize. I wrongly thought
(perhaps was wrongly told) "Aferim" meant "respect".
I didn't know a more appropriate introduction phrase. Below are the
lyrics for that Yes song. They can be found as follows:
http://www.yesworld.com -> Gallery -> Discography -> Albums -> Tales
from Topographic Oceans -> The Ancient/Giants Under the Sun
The Ancient: Giants Under the Sun
Anderson/Howe/Squire/Wakeman/White
Puranas: The Ancient probes still further into the past beyond the
point of remembering. Here Steve's guitar is pivotal in sharpening
reflection on the beauties and treasures of lost civilisations,
Indian, Chinese, Central American, Atlantean. These and other people
left an immense treasure of knowledge.
As one with the knowledge and magic of the source
Atuned to the majesty of music
They marched as one with earth
Sol, Dhoop
Sun
Ilios
Naytheet
Ah Kin
Saule
Tonatiuh
Qurax
Gunes, Grian
Surje
Ir
Samse
So the flowering creativity of life wove its web face to face with the
shallow
And their gods sought out and conquered
Ah Kin
Do the leaves of green stay greener through the autumn
Does the colour of the sun turn crimson white
Does a shadow come between us in the winter
Is the movement really light
And I heard a million voices singing
Acting to the story that they had heard about
Does one child know the secret and can say it
Or does it all come out along without you
Along without you
Along without you
Where does reaon stop and killing just take over
Does a lamb cry out before we shoot it dead
Are there many more in comfort understanding
Is the movement in the head
And I heard a million voices singing
Acting to the story that they had heard about
Does one child know the secret and can say it
Or does it all come out along without you
Along without you
Along without you
Acephale Lemar
> On Apr 7, 4:19 pm, "Acephale Lemar" <noma...@org.invalid> wrote:
>
>> Interesting, I'm not familiar with Yes, but can you tell me where I
>> can find the lyric of this song?
>
> Thank you very much for helping me and I apologize. I wrongly thought
> (perhaps was wrongly told) "Aferim" meant "respect".
It can be mean "respect" too like "Congratulations!", but "aferim" is
wrong, "aferin" is correct.
> I didn't know a more appropriate introduction phrase. Below are the
Next time you can just say "merhaba" aka "marhaba"=Arabic, means
"hallo".
It's not a introduction phrase, it would be said if I'm satisfied with
the result/answer and so on.
> lyrics for that Yes song. They can be found as follows:
>
> http://www.yesworld.com -> Gallery -> Discography -> Albums -> Tales
> from Topographic Oceans -> The Ancient/Giants Under the Sun
> Sol, Dhoop
> Sun
> Ilios
> Naytheet
> Ah Kin
> Saule
> Tonatiuh
> Qurax
> Gunes, Grian
> Surje
> Ir
> Samse
Do you know the other languages above? Ilios seems like "helios", Ah
Kin reminds me of "Ah Pook", saule aka "soleil". As Chris Karrer have
told me, "Düül" in "Amon Düül" means "sun" too, but I can not confirm
that.
pro...@hotmail.com
> Next time you can just say "merhaba" aka "marhaba"=Arabic, means
> "hallo".
Oh, how did I forget that one? At least by remembering the name of a
side project in which Yes's Alan White played: Merkaba. Thanks!
> > Sol, Dhoop
> > Sun
> > Ilios
> > Naytheet
> > Ah Kin
> > Saule
> > Tonatiuh
> > Qurax
> > Gunes, Grian
> > Surje
> > Ir
> > Samse
>
> Do you know the other languages above? Ilios seems like "helios",
For sure. Hence, Hellenic.
Ah
> Kin reminds me of "Ah Pook", saule aka "soleil".
So the latter/second may be Celtic/Gaellic?
So in the 30 years since I've known those lyrics I haven't explored
all of the names (shame! :) ) yet but it's worth and hopefully time is
still left for this too :) . Sol is probably Latin/Roman. Surje is
probably Sanskrit/Asian Indian but maybe not precisely in this
spelling. As you too kindly confirmed me Guenesch, thank you - about
13 years ago, so did a then PhD student at UAlberta, Edmonton, with
the first name Suryanil, confirm me Surya was the name of the sun in
his language.
But could be African as well, or who knows, still Asian-Indian and
brought there by Asian-Indian people who migrated in various African
places (e.g., Mauritius). There was once a female (I think) athlete
from Africa with the name Surya Bonali, right? Then Tonatiuh could be
AzTec or Maya or another Central American old civilisation (among Jon
Anderson's solo albums is also one called "Toltec"). To get a hint
which languages could be others, before I start exploring on my own, I
look again at the Puranas description above - the part with "lost
civilisations". In the liner notes of this album, Jon Anderson says it
is based on the four shastric scriptures (Shrutis, Suritis, Puranas,
Tantras) he found in the "lengthy footnote of p. 83 of Paramhansa
Yogananda's 'Autobiography of a Yogi' ".
As Chris Karrer have
> told me, "Düül" in "Amon Düül" means "sun" too, but I can not confirm
> that.
So you know him in person? Nice. I have to review what I used to know
about a band name like "Amon Dueuel", but at first sight I would
rather say it's rather "Amon" from the Egyptian "Amon Ra" that's
"sun". Which also makes one wonder how come Jon Anderson didn't
include precisely this also "lost civilisation" in his list above.
Nice talking to you. Thanks for your help.
Acephale Lemar
> On Apr 8, 1:55 am, "Acephale Lemar" <noma...@org.invalid> wrote:
>
>> Next time you can just say "merhaba" aka "marhaba"=Arabic, means
>> "hallo".
>
> Oh, how did I forget that one? At least by remembering the name of a
> side project in which Yes's Alan White played: Merkaba. Thanks!
Thanks for this information, it was unknown to me.
>> Kin reminds me of "Ah Pook", saule aka "soleil".
>
> So the latter/second may be Celtic/Gaellic?
French, ergo Gaellic I would say, but I don't know.
> So in the 30 years since I've known those lyrics I haven't explored
> all of the names (shame! :) ) yet but it's worth and hopefully time
> is
> still left for this too :) . Sol is probably Latin/Roman. Surje is
I think, sol and soleil have the same roots.
> from Africa with the name Surya Bonali, right? Then Tonatiuh could be
> AzTec or Maya or another Central American old civilisation (among Jon
> Anderson's solo albums is also one called "Toltec"). To get a hint
I think so too.
> As Chris Karrer have
> told me, "Düül" in "Amon Düül" means "sun" too, but I can not confirm
> that.
>
> So you know him in person? Nice. I have to review what I used to know
Not really knowing him, but between two sets with Embryo I could
interview him for a fanzine, it was 15 years ago. Dieter Serfas,
Junus=Yunus Golombek were in the line up at this time too.
> about a band name like "Amon Dueuel", but at first sight I would
> rather say it's rather "Amon" from the Egyptian "Amon Ra" that's
> "sun". Which also makes one wonder how come Jon Anderson didn't
> include precisely this also "lost civilisation" in his list above.
Amon Ra is clear, but as I remember he told me that "düül" means "sun"
too, so "Amon Düül" should mean "sun sun". I don't know, if he cracked
a joke or told me the real story about it.
> Nice talking to you. Thanks for your help.
I'm happy that I could help you. You're a honest human, which is a
seldom event here. Are you a fan of prog-rock? Do you know other
turkish musicians and groups? First two albums from Baris Manco are
warmly recommended. ;-)
Lie-Buster
news:ev8uea$1f5f$1...@geiz-ist-geil.priv.at...
> pro...@hotmail.com wrote:
>> Aferim,
>
> What do you say? First, this is wrong, "aferin" means:
> Congratulations!
Or rather "Well done!"
> Maybe you intended to say "efendim" in the sense of "dear folks/ladies
> and gentlemen"?
>
>> I saw two video clips of Baris Akarsu "Vurdum En Dibe Kandar" and
>> "Islak Islak". I'm sorry, being from way up north-west of Turkiye, my
>> knowledge of Turkish words is extremely limited. I couldn't find any
>> English translation on the web. I'm not asking anyone here to waste
>> time to give me such translations. But I'd be grateful if someone
>> could be so kind as to at least give me an idea of what the artist
>> sings about in the two songs below:
>>
>> Vurdum en dibe kadar
I shoved it in to the hilt!!!! (LOL) But honestly this is what it means,
though I am sure the poet has something else in mind. Anyway, I have had my
good laugh...
Me 'tinks' me explained it further down. But if you want me to be serious,
I'd translate this line into idiomatic English as...
I hit the rock bottom
>>
>> Büyülü gölgelerden
>
> from bewithched shadows(gölgeler)
>
>> Ruhuma akan zehir
>
> runs(akan) the poison(zehir) into my soul
the poison that runs into my soul
or how about...
The venom that poisons my soul, which would be more of a free but poetic
translation into idiomatic "Englisch", yes "Englisch"....
>
>> Kandirir gözlerimi
>
> deceives my eyes(gözlerimi)
>
>> Sahte bir dünya verir
>
> shows a false/unreal (sahte) world
>
>> Ateslerle uyandim
>
> Waked up with "fevers" (not fires, ates would be both, depends from
> context)
He must have been feeling hot in his pants, I'd say. The fucking bastard!!!
All he can think of is sex, sex and more sex...
>
>> Yangin her yeri sarar
>
> flames (alevler= flames) cover all places
'flames everywhere' or 'flames all over me' would be both a good idiomatic
translation and has the advantage of sounding poetic. But if you want the
best idiomatic translation, try "The flames devour me".
>
>> Gördügüm acilarla
>
> due to seen aches (by me)
"The pain I suffered"
Yes, "The pain I suffered", would be a more apt translation into English.
Ache is more AGRI in Turkish -- sort of a dull pain like a headache. Did you
hear the one about the boy in the English class telling his teacher that he
had a "headache" in his stomach!!!!
>
>> Vurdum en dibe kadar
>
> IMO is "vurdum" without a sense, "vardim"= arrived seems useful,
> common.
You haven't a dirty enough mind, Acep. It is 'vurdum' not 'vardim'. <G>
If you want me to be serious, I'd translate that line as...
"I hit rock bottom"
I think I did this elsewhere too. But can't be too sure. I am not tackling
this thing systematically. I only meant to insert a joke about 'dibine
kadar' but then I couldn't get away from it somehow. So if you see any
duplications or even some contradictions, do not be surprised. I can even
surprise myself.
> I suggest that he means: I don't accept any borders/ I practise zero
> tolerance for murderers.
> Or: I'm stranded on the ground= abyyss.
>
>> Above I can only recognize the word "kadar" as a family, last name in
>> Hungarian (where "kad" means "bath").
>
> "kadar"= untill.
> vurmak= hit, beat someone/something, en dibe= to the deepest floor,
'en dibe' would best be translated as 'right to the bottom' though in
Turkish the 'en' is quite superfluous and there is no 'most/deepest' bottom
as there is one and only one bottom, such as the bottom of the sea, or the
bottom of the lake or the well etc. But in poetic language it is not strange
as the expression 'the lowest depths" in English shows. So, 'vurdum en dibe
kadar' would best be translated as 'I hit the lowest depths' -- poor boy,
he must have been really badly hurt. That's what love does to you. It is
nothing but trouble, and headaches!!! It only shows that the lover is
temporarily deranged and badly in need of a good shrink, as psychologists
are known in the English speaking world.
So take it from me, the British would say "I hit rock bottom" -- and I doubt
that this translation into idiomatic English could be bettered.
>
> Search for "sesli sözlük", an online dictionary and "English Fast
> Dictionary" for your first step in Turkish.
> Usually it's difficult to translate poetical texts, so I didn't
> translated, but gave you some hints.
>
>> Islak Islak - Baris Akarsu
Ah, I see now -- this is the SECOND poem/song or whatever.... Now I get it.
>>
>> Gecenin nemi mi düsmüs gözlerine?
Has the night dew befallen on your eyes?
However, in English there is no night dew but 'morning' dew. Or should we
use the expression 'the moisture of the night'... problems, problems
translating poetry. Me can't decide, right now. Me should go through the
poem systematically and me can't do it right now. Me lazy bugger doing it
bit by bit. Going up and down.
>> Ne olur islak islak bakma öyle
Please, do not look (at me) with moist eyes
This is a bit of a free translation which gives the real sense, the real
meaning of the line in Turkish.
>> Saçini dök sineme derdini söyle
The literal translation would be 'Pour your hair on my chest, tell me your
woes' for which the best idiomatic English translation could be...
'Put your head on my shoulder and let it all come out' in the sense 'don't
keep it your problems to yourself'.
>> Yeter ki islak islak bakma öyle
But please/And please do not look (at me) with moist eyes
>>
>> Sürerim buluttan tarlalari
>> Yagmurlar ekerim gögün gögsüne
>
> gök-->gögün= heaven; gögüs-->gögsüne= breast
> BUT yagmurlar= rains and ekerim= I'll sowing is only readable as
> metaphor.
'I'll plough the fields of clouds
(and) plant rains in the bosom of the sky.
I know rains in the plural sounds a bit strange in English but so it does in
Turkish as well.
Also 'surerim' is literally 'I plough' though here 'I'll plough' is more
correct in English. In Turkish promises are usually voiced in the present
tense. However in English promises are always expressed in the future tense,
which is more apt. But there you are. Promises made in Turkish are
understood to be in the future tense.
Which reminds me of a politician addressing a gathering of villagers. He
promised to build a bridge to the village and when someone pointed out to
him that there was no river in the area he promised to bring them a river
too. HeHeHe...
>
>> Güneste demlerim senin çayini
>
> cay= tea, demlemek= soak, and this _on_ the sun.
"demlemek" is surely "to brew". You brew tea, you don't soak it. But the
question is= Does he mean 'on the sun' -- which he probably does -- or 'in
the sun'? Now Acep, what do YOU think? Surely the star that is the sun is
too hot a place to brew tea!!! Surely this boy is too demented if he thinks
he can go to the sun to brew a cup of tea for his girl. He must surely a
right proper 'mecnun'. <G>
>
>> Yüregimden süzer öyle veririm
I'll filter it through my heart and thus serve it to you...
Boy, boy, boy. This boy surely needs a shrink!!! He'll filter the tea
through his heart !!! I'd say he is a bit mad. 'Mecnun' as they say, which
in Turkish means a boy who is in love (or on heat!!!) but which also means
'mad/loony'. In fact this latter meaning is, I believe, the true original
meaning of the word. So, take it from me= LOVE is MADNESS, TEMPORARY
INSANITY.
>>
>> Ben felegin su çarkina çomak sokarim
>> Ben felegin tekerine çomak sokarim
Both the lines above mean the same thing though expressed in different
words. They both mean "I'll stop the wheel of fortune dead in its tracks"
though the literal translations would be
'I'll insert/stick a club (a stick with a club end) in this wheel of
fortune'
and...
"I'll insert/stick a club in the rondelle/carousel of fortune"
-- much like the English expression of 'putting a spanner in the works'
though he will be doing it with a constructive intention whereas 'putting a
spanner in the works' is a negative thing. But I hope you get the idea.
"Club" doesn't really sound OK in English. How about replacing the word
"club" with the word "log" which would make it more natural to English ears?
>> Yeter ki islak islak bakma öyle
So long as you don't look at me like that with moist eyes.
>>
>> Above, I can only recognize the word "Guenesch". It must be Turkish
>> for "sun". In the beginning of the third movement "The Ancient/Giants
>
> Correct.
>
>> Under the Sun" of Yes's "Tales from Topographic Oceans" from 1973,
>> Jon
>> Anderson recites the name of the sun in about a dozen languages
>> belonging to as many civilisations, and one among them is "Guenesch".
>
> Interesting, I'm not familiar with (it). Yes, but can you tell me where I
> can
> find the lyric of this song?
>
> "islak" means damp, wet, here it's used in a figurative sense, as an
The word "Islak" here is best translated as "moist" -- NO, I am not gona
crack a dirty joke 'ere asking "moist where?", much as I'd like to !!! <G>
Poor girl! She must have tears running down her cheeks!!!
> idiom which I have never heard before, so I only can conclude from the
> context that he means: Don't look so sad/unbelievingly at me (due to
> weeping?)
Moist eyes, would be the best translation, Acep. But well done!!! You've
come a long way!!! Soon, I'll start taking lessons from you.
Who is this Baris Akarsu anyway. BTW, his name translates as Peace
Flowing-Water, doesn't it? I take nobody has taken up the surname of
Durgunsu.
BTW, have you heard the joke about the chap who adopted the surname Ku$ and
was from then on addressed as BayKush (The Owl)?
>
Lie-Buster
I just noticed that I translated one particular line as...
"I hit the rock bottom"
Of course the correct version should be...
"I hit rock bottom" (without the definite article 'the').
Maybe I edited the line and absent mindedly forgot to delete the "the" !!!.
But anyway, I thought I'd send a correction before anyone points an accusing
finger at me.
I am hitting the sack right after posting this. I've been up since 3 AM last
night. The computer was playing up and I decided to fix it at 3 AM in the
morning!!!! All it was, was that the PSU needed a new fan as the old one had
packed up. But when I opened up the computer and got the PSU out, I couldn't
believe what I saw. Where does all that dust and fluff come from, for
heaven's sake?
Mind you, it's been going on close to 9 years which isn't bad going but the
chap I bought the spare fan from the day before wondered how on earth they
could stay in business if after 9 years all I went to him for was an 80 mm
fan!!!
A screwdriver, an ever so slightly moist brush (to make sure not to create
static) and a can of compressed air soon got the PSU spanking spotlessly
again. Well, I mean the heat sinks don't work that efficiently with half an
inch of dust and fluff on them, do they?
In any case, it seems we can't do without screwing even if it is just
computer components, and Panta Rhei the mercenary hack and Ali Asker, the
Alley Cat!
Good night, all!!!
--
Lie Buster
=======
"Acephale Lemar" <nom...@org.invalid> wrote in message
news:ev8uea$1f5f$1...@geiz-ist-geil.priv.at...
> pro...@hotmail.com wrote:
>> Aferim,
>
> What do you say? First, this is wrong, "aferin" means:
> Congratulations!
> Maybe you intended to say "efendim" in the sense of "dear folks/ladies
> and gentlemen"?
>
>> I saw two video clips of Baris Akarsu "Vurdum En Dibe Kandar" and
>> "Islak Islak". I'm sorry, being from way up north-west of Turkiye, my
>> knowledge of Turkish words is extremely limited. I couldn't find any
>> English translation on the web. I'm not asking anyone here to waste
>> time to give me such translations. But I'd be grateful if someone
>> could be so kind as to at least give me an idea of what the artist
>> sings about in the two songs below:
>>
>> Vurdum en dibe kadar
>>
>> Büyülü gölgelerden
>
> from bewithched shadows(gölgeler)
>
>> Ruhuma akan zehir
>
> runs(akan) the poison(zehir) into my soul
>
>> Kandirir gözlerimi
>
> deceives my eyes(gözlerimi)
>
>> Sahte bir dünya verir
>
> shows a false/unreal (sahte) world
>
>> Ateslerle uyandim
>
> Waked up with "fevers" (not fires, ates would be both, depends from
> context)
>
>> Yangin her yeri sarar
>
> flames (alevler= flames) cover all places
>
>> Gördügüm acilarla
>
> due to seen aches (by me)
>
>> Vurdum en dibe kadar
>
> IMO is "vurdum" without a sense, "vardim"= arrived seems useful,
> common.
> I suggest that he means: I don't accept any borders/ I practise zero
> tolerance for murderers.
> Or: I'm stranded on the ground= abyyss.
>
>> Above I can only recognize the word "kadar" as a family, last name in
>> Hungarian (where "kad" means "bath").
>
> "kadar"= untill.
> vurmak= hit, beat someone/something, en dibe= to the deepest floor,
>
> Search for "sesli sözlük", an online dictionary and "English Fast
> Dictionary" for your first step in Turkish.
> Usually it's difficult to translate poetical texts, so I didn't
> translated, but gave you some hints.
>
>> Islak Islak - Baris Akarsu
>>
>> Gecenin nemi mi düsmüs gözlerine?
>> Ne olur islak islak bakma öyle
>> Saçini dök sineme derdini söyle
>> Yeter ki islak islak bakma öyle
>>
>> Sürerim buluttan tarlalari
>> Yagmurlar ekerim gögün gögsüne
>
> gök-->gögün= heaven; gögüs-->gögsüne= breast
> BUT yagmurlar= rains and ekerim= I'll sowing is only readable as
> metaphor.
>
>> Güneste demlerim senin çayini
>
> cay= tea, demlemek= soak, and this _on_ the sun.
>
>> Yüregimden süzer öyle veririm
>>
>> Ben felegin su çarkina çomak sokarim
>> Ben felegin tekerine çomak sokarim
>> Yeter ki islak islak bakma öyle
Acephale Lemar
> "Acephale Lemar" <nom...@org.invalid> wrote in message
> news:ev8uea$1f5f$1...@geiz-ist-geil.priv.at...
>> pro...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>> Aferim,
>>
>> What do you say? First, this is wrong, "aferin" means:
>> Congratulations!
>
> Or rather "Well done!"
If you do something well, I'll say: Congratulations! ;-)
>>> Vurdum en dibe kadar
>
> I shoved it in to the hilt!!!! (LOL) But honestly this is what it
> means, though I am sure the poet has something else in mind. Anyway,
> I have had my good laugh...
Not "up to the hilt"?
> The venom that poisons my soul, which would be more of a free but
> poetic translation into idiomatic "Englisch", yes "Englisch"....
What did you last night? I never said that my english is perfect.
>>> Yangin her yeri sarar
>>
>> flames (alevler= flames) cover all places
>
> 'flames everywhere' or 'flames all over me' would be both a good
> idiomatic translation and has the advantage of sounding poetic. But
> if you want the best idiomatic translation, try "The flames devour
> me".
Sen misin, moruk? Ingilizce dersine baslayalim mi?
>>> Gördügüm acilarla
>>
>> due to seen aches (by me)
>
> "The pain I suffered"
>
> Yes, "The pain I suffered", would be a more apt translation into
> English.
> Ache is more AGRI in Turkish -- sort of a dull pain like a headache.
> Did you hear the one about the boy in the English class telling his
> teacher that he had a "headache" in his stomach!!!!
Did you forget to set "?" at the end of your question?
>>> Vurdum en dibe kadar
>>
>> IMO is "vurdum" without a sense, "vardim"= arrived seems useful,
>> common.
>
> You haven't a dirty enough mind, Acep. It is 'vurdum' not 'vardim'.
> <G>
It=vurdum makes no sense to me, you're wrong, I have not a dirty mind.
> If you want me to be serious, I'd translate that line as...
>
> "I hit rock bottom"
In my online dictionary is just an example: She has hit rock bottom.
Means that she does it for 1 Euro, with everbody: a whore in the
gutter. If the singer Baris is male, what could he mean in your
opinion?
> I think I did this elsewhere too. But can't be too sure. I am not
> tackling this thing systematically. I only meant to insert a joke
> about 'dibine kadar' but then I couldn't get away from it somehow.
> So if you see any duplications or even some contradictions, do not be
> surprised. I can even surprise myself.
Do it honestly, not this snooty way.
>> "kadar"= untill.
>> vurmak= hit, beat someone/something, en dibe= to the deepest floor,
>
> 'en dibe' would best be translated as 'right to the bottom' though in
> Turkish the 'en' is quite superfluous and there is no 'most/deepest'
> bottom as there is one and only one bottom, such as the bottom of the
> sea, or the bottom of the lake or the well etc. But in poetic
> language it is not strange as the expression 'the lowest depths" in
> English shows. So, 'vurdum en dibe kadar' would best be translated
> as 'I hit the lowest depths' -- poor boy, he must have been really
> badly hurt. That's what love does to you. It is nothing but trouble,
He's arrived in the gutter due to his hotheaded love (or obsession?).
> and headaches!!! It only shows that the lover is temporarily deranged
> and badly in need of a good shrink, as psychologists are known in the
> English speaking world.
I know "still in shrink",if vinyl records were fabric sealed and
records are opened but with the foil. So "need of a good shrink"
irritates my imagination.
> So take it from me, the British would say "I hit rock bottom" -- and
> I doubt that this translation into idiomatic English could be
> bettered.
You're the same. Can live with it, morung. ;-)
>>> Gecenin nemi mi düsmüs gözlerine?
>
> Has the night dew befallen on your eyes?
>
> However, in English there is no night dew but 'morning' dew. Or
This is very literally translated, I think.
>>> Ne olur islak islak bakma öyle
>
> Please, do not look (at me) with moist eyes
>
> This is a bit of a free translation which gives the real sense, the
> real meaning of the line in Turkish.
I suppose that she's a good cry and sad.
>>> Saçini dök sineme derdini söyle
>
> The literal translation would be 'Pour your hair on my chest, tell me
> your woes' for which the best idiomatic English translation could
> be...
> 'Put your head on my shoulder and let it all come out' in the sense
> 'don't keep it your problems to yourself'.
Speak with me/ to me. Don't keep still= wordless.
>>> Yeter ki islak islak bakma öyle
>
> But please/And please do not look (at me) with moist eyes
Cried out eyes look accusatory.
>>> Sürerim buluttan tarlalari
>>> Yagmurlar ekerim gögün gögsüne
>>
>> gök-->gögün= heaven; gögüs-->gögsüne= breast
>> BUT yagmurlar= rains and ekerim= I'll sowing is only readable as
>> metaphor.
>
> 'I'll plough the fields of clouds
> (and) plant rains in the bosom of the sky.
>
> I know rains in the plural sounds a bit strange in English but so it
> does in Turkish as well.
>
> Also 'surerim' is literally 'I plough' though here 'I'll plough' is
Don't forget "araba sürmek", "boya sürmek" and so on.
> more correct in English. In Turkish promises are usually voiced in
> the present tense. However in English promises are always expressed
> in the future tense, which is more apt. But there you are. Promises
> made in Turkish are understood to be in the future tense.
This is new. Welcome.
>>> Güneste demlerim senin çayini
>>
>> cay= tea, demlemek= soak, and this _on_ the sun.
>
> "demlemek" is surely "to brew". You brew tea, you don't soak it. But
What's about beer?
> the question is= Does he mean 'on the sun' -- which he probably does
> -- or 'in the sun'? Now Acep, what do YOU think? Surely the star that
> is the sun is too hot a place to brew tea!!! Surely this boy is too
> demented if he thinks he can go to the sun to brew a cup of tea for
> his girl. He must surely a right proper 'mecnun'. <G>
I agree with your conclusion. He is ready for killing himself when she
answers his prayers.
>>> Yüregimden süzer öyle veririm
>
> I'll filter it through my heart and thus serve it to you...
>
> Boy, boy, boy. This boy surely needs a shrink!!! He'll filter the tea
> through his heart !!! I'd say he is a bit mad. 'Mecnun' as they say,
> which in Turkish means a boy who is in love (or on heat!!!) but which
> also means 'mad/loony'. In fact this latter meaning is, I believe,
> the true original meaning of the word. So, take it from me= LOVE is
> MADNESS, TEMPORARY INSANITY.
Maybe you've forgotten what love is?
>>> Ben felegin su çarkina çomak sokarim
>>> Ben felegin tekerine çomak sokarim
>
> Both the lines above mean the same thing though expressed in
> different
> words. They both mean "I'll stop the wheel of fortune dead in its
> tracks" though the literal translations would be
>
> 'I'll insert/stick a club (a stick with a club end) in this wheel of
> fortune'
>
> and...
>
> "I'll insert/stick a club in the rondelle/carousel of fortune"
>
> -- much like the English expression of 'putting a spanner in the
> works' though he will be doing it with a constructive intention
> whereas 'putting a spanner in the works' is a negative thing. But I
> hope you get the idea.
> "Club" doesn't really sound OK in English. How about replacing the
> word "club" with the word "log" which would make it more natural to
> English ears?
log is like a diary, club like pestle. I'll= can stop the wheel of
fortune (if she wishes!).
>> "islak" means damp, wet, here it's used in a figurative sense, as an
>
> The word "Islak" here is best translated as "moist" -- NO, I am not
> gona crack a dirty joke 'ere asking "moist where?", much as I'd like
> to !!! <G>
You did it again, fan of pleasure principle.
> Poor girl! She must have tears running down her cheeks!!!
>
>> idiom which I have never heard before, so I only can conclude from
>> the context that he means: Don't look so sad/unbelievingly at me
>> (due to weeping?)
>
> Moist eyes, would be the best translation, Acep. But well done!!!
> You've come a long way!!! Soon, I'll start taking lessons from you.
You're so lovely, I'm ashamed. I'm an excellent reader and interpreter,
but I know my lacks.
> Who is this Baris Akarsu anyway. BTW, his name translates as Peace
> Flowing-Water, doesn't it? I take nobody has taken up the surname of
> Durgunsu.
Akarsu= river, flow.
> BTW, have you heard the joke about the chap who adopted the surname
> Ku$ and was from then on addressed as BayKush (The Owl)?
No, I didn't hear it.
pro...@hotmail.com
> Not really knowing him, but between two sets with Embryo I could
> interview him for a fanzine, it was 15 years ago. Dieter Serfas,
> Junus=Yunus Golombek were in the line up at this time too.
Oh, oh, I too remember a German band's name like Embryo, and a
musician named Dieter Serfas in a "kraut-rock" band with ever changing
lineup - Amon Dueuel II or was it Manuel Goettsching's Ash _Ra_ :)
Tempel?
> I'm happy that I could help you. You're a honest human, which is a
> seldom event here. Are you a fan of prog-rock?
You too fit the above description, thank you. Yes, I am. On the USENET
I'm mostly on prog-rock newsgroups. And also on myspace, where the
original question came from (addressed by a myspace friend of mine,
actually; she brought the two Baris Akarsu videos from persili.de,
then she found the lyrics to the first one and I found the lyrics to
the second one; so Baris Akarsu is definitely a male, or a male band).
Later, I also found this http://www.myspace.com/akarsubaris .
Do you know other
> turkish musicians and groups?
On rec.music.progressive especially in the late '90s people would
sometimes also mention prog from "unsuspected" countries, or things
like "Anyone Know/Could Recommend Some Turkish Prog?" (or Macedonian -
FYROM that is, or Iranian, etc.). I think even ...Guenesh :) was
mentioned as a name of a Turkish prog rock group. From my teenage in
the '70s I remember perhaps a non-prog but still traditional-arranged,
hence pleasant for me, Turkish song on the radio, with the name of a
city - "Gaziantep", (or "The Road to Gaziantep") but I forgot the name
of the artist. I also have a Chapman stick player from Turkey among my
myspace friends, though - Akim Unverian, yes, Armenian-sounding last
name. It happens...
First two albums from Baris Manco are
> warmly recommended. ;-)
Thank you, I'll look for info on them. :)
Lie-Buster
Acephale Lemar
> [ Message was illegally cancelled/censored by the criminal
> organization AIPAC at $$6cnnjg$xni7o4.news.x-privat.org via
> x-privat.org on Mon, 09 Apr 2007 13:16:19 +1000 --> see headers ]
>
> In the response to Acep's posting I just sent, which isn't on my
> server yet, I just noticed that I translated one particular line
> as...
>
> "I hit the rock bottom"
>
> Of course the correct version should be...
>
> "I hit rock bottom" (without the definite article 'the').
Ben okudum, sonradan silinmis olmali. Bazi ayrintilar belirginlesiyor.
Acmaya gerek yok, belki suna cevap: Tek silah mi, yoksa ortak calisma
mi? Basari diliyorum, ahbab!
Acephale Lemar
> On Apr 8, 10:49 am, "Acephale Lemar" <noma...@org.invalid> wrote:
>
>> Not really knowing him, but between two sets with Embryo I could
>> interview him for a fanzine, it was 15 years ago. Dieter Serfas,
>> Junus=Yunus Golombek were in the line up at this time too.
>
> Oh, oh, I too remember a German band's name like Embryo, and a
> musician named Dieter Serfas in a "kraut-rock" band with ever
> changing lineup - Amon Dueuel II or was it Manuel Goettsching's Ash
> _Ra_ :) Tempel?
It was Amon Düül II, sure. ;-)
>> I'm happy that I could help you. You're a honest human, which is a
>> seldom event here. Are you a fan of prog-rock?
>
> You too fit the above description, thank you. Yes, I am. On the
> USENET I'm mostly on prog-rock newsgroups. And also on myspace, where
> the
I didn't see any postings from you in f.e. rec.music.progressive,
tehrefore I asked for.
> original question came from (addressed by a myspace friend of mine,
> actually; she brought the two Baris Akarsu videos from persili.de,
> then she found the lyrics to the first one and I found the lyrics to
> the second one; so Baris Akarsu is definitely a male, or a male
> band). Later, I also found this http://www.myspace.com/akarsubaris .
I'll look after if I have time for it.
> Do you know other
>> turkish musicians and groups?
>
> On rec.music.progressive especially in the late '90s people would
> sometimes also mention prog from "unsuspected" countries, or things
> like "Anyone Know/Could Recommend Some Turkish Prog?" (or
> Macedonian - FYROM that is, or Iranian, etc.). I think even
> ...Guenesh :) was mentioned as a name of a Turkish prog rock group.
> From my teenage in
I don't know a band called "Günes". But it's possible 'cos I'm not well
informed about the new bands.
Do you the lists from this guy from Belgium? He has many obscure
records, but his prices are beyond reasonable.
> the '70s I remember perhaps a non-prog but still
> traditional-arranged, hence pleasant for me, Turkish song on the
> radio, with the name of a city - "Gaziantep", (or "The Road to
> Gaziantep") but I forgot the
> name
"Antep yollarinda" could be the title of this song, but again, I'm not
sure about this, it's a long time.
Maybe it's from "Mogollar", or you mean "Camlica yollarinda" from
Haramiler(?).
> of the artist. I also have a Chapman stick player from Turkey among
> my myspace friends, though - Akim Unverian, yes, Armenian-sounding
> last name. It happens...
John Berberian must be a known musician to you, I suppose.
> First two albums from Baris Manco are
>> warmly recommended. ;-)
>
> Thank you, I'll look for info on them. :)
I have not the link at the hand, but there is very good web site from
an another belgian guy about "anatolian rock", with "homestead" in the
address. Best wishes for you; if you're comin' from Hungary, Hungaria
and some Omega from the early 70ies are fein.
Lie-Buster
> Lie-Buster wrote:
>> "Acephale Lemar" <nom...@org.invalid> wrote in message
>> news:ev8uea$1f5f$1...@geiz-ist-geil.priv.at...
>>> pro...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>>> Aferim,
>>>
>>> What do you say? First, this is wrong, "aferin" means:
>>> Congratulations!
>>
>> Or rather "Well done!"
>
> If you do something well, I'll say: Congratulations! ;-)
You congratulate someone for his success. You say well done if he has done a
good job of work. Subtle differences. NUANS FARKI !!!
>
>>>> Vurdum en dibe kadar
>>
>> I shoved it in to the hilt!!!! (LOL) But honestly this is what it
>> means, though I am sure the poet has something else in mind. Anyway,
>> I have had my good laugh...
>
> Not "up to the hilt"?
And where did you get this, you dirty old man?
>
>> The venom that poisons my soul, which would be more of a free but
>> poetic translation into idiomatic "Englisch", yes "Englisch"....
>
> What did you last night? I never said that my english is perfect.
What did I _DO _ last night, you mean? You are doin' well, Acep. Learning a
language is no easy task unless you are a child. I'll give you a pat on the
back. Aferin. Well done!!!
>
>>>> Yangin her yeri sarar
>>>
>>> flames (alevler= flames) cover all places
>>
>> 'flames everywhere' or 'flames all over me' would be both a good
>> idiomatic translation and has the advantage of sounding poetic. But
>> if you want the best idiomatic translation, try "The flames devour
>> me".
>
> Sen misin, moruk? Ingilizce dersine baslayalim mi?
Basliyalim ya...
>
>>>> Gördügüm acilarla
>>>
>>> due to seen aches (by me)
>>
>> "The pain I suffered"
>>
>> Yes, "The pain I suffered", would be a more apt translation into
>> English.
>> Ache is more AGRI in Turkish -- sort of a dull pain like a headache.
>> Did you hear the one about the boy in the English class telling his
>> teacher that he had a "headache" in his stomach ? !!!!
>
> Did you forget to set "?" at the end of your question?
There, I have added it in now.
>
>>>> Vurdum en dibe kadar
>>>
>>> IMO is "vurdum" without a sense, "vardim"= arrived seems useful,
>>> common.
>>
>> You haven't a dirty enough mind, Acep. It is 'vurdum' not 'vardim'.
>> <G>
>
> It=vurdum makes no sense to me, you're wrong, I have not a dirty mind.
>
>> If you want me to be serious, I'd translate that line as...
>>
>> "I hit rock bottom"
>
> In my online dictionary is just an example: She has hit rock bottom. Means
> that she does it for 1 Euro, with everbody: a whore in the gutter. If the
> singer Baris is male, what could he mean in your opinion?
Now, what was the original line in Turkish? You hit rock bottom when you hit
rock bottom. What hitting rock bottom implies depends on the context.
>
>> I think I did this elsewhere too. But can't be too sure. I am not
>> tackling this thing systematically. I only meant to insert a joke
>> about 'dibine kadar' but then I couldn't get away from it somehow.
>> So if you see any duplications or even some contradictions, do not be
>> surprised. I can even surprise myself.
>
> Do it honestly, not this snooty way.
I wasn't being snooty. I meant what I said. I never intended to write that
much. I thought I'd write a line or two at the most and post it. But I ended
getting up deeper and deeper into it. I guess the problems of translation
hold a fascination for me and I can't get away from it. No, I wasn't being
snooty at all.
>
>>> "kadar"= untill.
>>> vurmak= hit, beat someone/something, en dibe= to the deepest floor,
>>
>> 'en dibe' would best be translated as 'right to the bottom' though in
>> Turkish the 'en' is quite superfluous and there is no 'most/deepest'
>> bottom as there is one and only one bottom, such as the bottom of the
>> sea, or the bottom of the lake or the well etc. But in poetic
>> language it is not strange as the expression 'the lowest depths" in
>> English shows. So, 'vurdum en dibe kadar' would best be translated
>> as 'I hit the lowest depths' -- poor boy, he must have been really
>> badly hurt. That's what love does to you. It is nothing but trouble,
>
> He's arrived in the gutter due to his hotheaded love (or obsession?).
You mean he 'ended up in the gutter'. NUANS farki!!!
>
>> and headaches!!! It only shows that the lover is temporarily deranged
>> and badly in need of a good shrink, as psychologists are known in the
>> English speaking world.
>
> I know "still in shrink", if vinyl records were fabric sealed and
The correct expression in English is 'factory sealed', Acep.
> records are opened but with the foil. So "need of a good shrink" irritates
> my imagination.
Shrink means to shrink. Like clothes can shrink in the wash, yani 'Cekilir'.
The expression 'shrink wrapped' is due to the fact that the thin film of
plastic is 'shrunk' around the goods using heat to shrink the plastic wrap.
'Still in shrink' is wrong. The correct expression would be 'still shrink
wrapped'.
>
>> So take it from me, the British would say "I hit rock bottom" -- and
>> I doubt that this translation into idiomatic English could be
>> bettered.
>
> You're the same. Can live with it, morung. ;-)
You mean 'moron'? Yeah, I am a moron. So what?
>
>>>> Gecenin nemi mi düsmüs gözlerine?
>>
>> Has the night dew befallen on your eyes?
>>
>> However, in English there is no night dew but 'morning' dew. Or
>
> This is very literally translated, I think.
>
>>>> Ne olur islak islak bakma öyle
>>
>> Please, do not look (at me) with moist eyes
>>
>> This is a bit of a free translation which gives the real sense, the
>> real meaning of the line in Turkish.
>
> I suppose that she's (HAD) a good cry and (IS) sad.
I've taken the liberty of correcting your english with my additions in
brackets.
>
>>>> Saçini dök sineme derdini söyle
>>
>> The literal translation would be 'Pour your hair on my chest, tell me
>> your woes' for which the best idiomatic English translation could
>> be...
>> 'Put your head on my shoulder and let it all come out' in the sense
>> 'don't keep it your problems to yourself'.
>
> Speak with me/ to me. Don't keep still= wordless.
Don't REMAIN SILENT, is the expression you are looking for. An idiomatic
expression in English would be 'Don't keep it to yourself' in the sense
'pour your heart out'. It is a well known psychological fact that it is
better to talk about our problems rather than keep them to ourselves.
>
>>>> Yeter ki islak islak bakma öyle
>>
>> But please/And please do not look (at me) with moist eyes
>
> Cried out eyes look accusatory.
No they don't. Ya$li goz niye suclamaci olsun?
>
>>>> Sürerim buluttan tarlalari
>>>> Yagmurlar ekerim gögün gögsüne
>>>
>>> gök-->gögün= heaven; gögüs-->gögsüne= breast
>>> BUT yagmurlar= rains and ekerim= I'll sowing is only readable as
>>> metaphor.
>>
>> 'I'll plough the fields of clouds
>> (and) plant rains in the bosom of the sky.
>>
>> I know rains in the plural sounds a bit strange in English but so it
>> does in Turkish as well.
>>
>> Also 'surerim' is literally 'I plough' though here 'I'll plough' is
>
> Don't forget "araba sürmek", "boya sürmek" and so on.
Tarlayi surup ekecek, lan! Yani bulut tarlasini surup yagmur ekecekmis.
Aklina (yanlis anlama, senin akline degil, onun aklina) prasa suyu!!! Ben
$ahsen kizlarin tarlalarini surup cocuk ekme'yi cok daha ilginc/cazib
bulurum. Birak o mecnun da aklinca bulut tarlasi surup yagmur eksin.
>
>> more correct in English. In Turkish promises are usually voiced in
>> the present tense. However in English promises are always expressed
>> in the future tense, which is more apt. But there you are. Promises
>> made in Turkish are understood to be in the future tense.
>
> This is new. Welcome.
Oh, well we learn something new every day.
>
>>>> Güneste demlerim senin çayini
>>>
>>> cay= tea, demlemek= soak, and this _on_ the sun.
>>
>> "demlemek" is surely "to brew". You brew tea, you don't soak it. But
>
> What's about beer?
Beer is also brewed. Yes it is brewed by soaking but it is 'brewed'. You
talk about it as 'breweing' and not as 'soaking' !
>
>> the question is= Does he mean 'on the sun' -- which he probably does
>> -- or 'in the sun'? Now Acep, what do YOU think? Surely the star that
>> is the sun is too hot a place to brew tea!!! Surely this boy is too
>> demented if he thinks he can go to the sun to brew a cup of tea for
>> his girl. He must surely a right proper 'mecnun'. <G>
>
> I agree with your conclusion. He is ready for killing himself when she
> answers his prayers.
>
>>>> Yüregimden süzer öyle veririm
>>
>> I'll filter it through my heart and thus serve it to you...
>>
>> Boy, boy, boy. This boy surely needs a shrink!!! He'll filter the tea
>> through his heart !!! I'd say he is a bit mad. 'Mecnun' as they say,
>> which in Turkish means a boy who is in love (or on heat!!!) but which
>> also means 'mad/loony'. In fact this latter meaning is, I believe,
>> the true original meaning of the word. So, take it from me= LOVE is
>> MADNESS, TEMPORARY INSANITY.
>
> Maybe you've forgotten what love is?
No, I haven't but I have come to realize it for what it is. Purely and
simply temporary madness. Nothing more, nothing less.
>
>>>> Ben felegin su çarkina çomak sokarim
>>>> Ben felegin tekerine çomak sokarim
>>
>> Both the lines above mean the same thing though expressed in different
>> words. They both mean "I'll stop the wheel of fortune dead in its
>> tracks" though the literal translations would be
>>
>> 'I'll insert/stick a club (a stick with a club end) in this wheel of
>> fortune'
>>
>> and...
>>
>> "I'll insert/stick a club in the rondelle/carousel of fortune"
>>
>> -- much like the English expression of 'putting a spanner in the
>> works' though he will be doing it with a constructive intention
>> whereas 'putting a spanner in the works' is a negative thing. But I
>> hope you get the idea.
>> "Club" doesn't really sound OK in English. How about replacing the
>> word "club" with the word "log" which would make it more natural to
>> English ears?
>
> log is like a diary, club like pestle. I'll= can stop the wheel of fortune
> (if she wishes!).
A log can be an entry in a written record/memo/diary etc etc but a log of
wood is a log of wood. Kutuk yani. Noktali u'lerle. Topuz is club; like a
golf club.
>
>>> "islak" means damp, wet, here it's used in a figurative sense, as an
>>
>> The word "Islak" here is best translated as "moist" -- NO, I am not
>> gona crack a dirty joke 'ere asking "moist where?", much as I'd like
>> to !!! <G>
>
> You did it again, fan of pleasure principle.
You've lost me. I don't know exactly what you mean. As for 'islak goz',
there are two expressions in English. 'Moist eyes' and 'with tears running
down her cheeks'. 'Wet eyes' is never used in English.
>
>> Poor girl! She must have tears running down her cheeks!!!
>>
>>> idiom which I have never heard before, so I only can conclude from
>>> the context that he means: Don't look so sad/unbelievingly at me
>>> (due to weeping?)
>>
>> Moist eyes, would be the best translation, Acep. But well done!!!
>> You've come a long way!!! Soon, I'll start taking lessons from you.
>
> You're so lovely, I'm ashamed. I'm an excellent reader and interpreter,
> but I know my lacks.
Nice translation from the Turkish. You are obviously thinking in Turkish and
translating your thoughts into English. Shall I correct it for you? 'Ere we
go...
You are so KIND, you make me feel EMBARRASSED. . I am an excellent reader
and interpreter but I know my SHORTCOMINGS.
The problem with life, Acep, is that the more we learn the more we come to
realize our shortcomings and how much we DON'T know. But then such is life.
>
>> Who is this Baris Akarsu anyway. BTW, his name translates as Peace
>> Flowing-Water, doesn't it? I take nobody has taken up the surname of
>> Durgunsu.
>
> Akarsu= river, flow.
Could be 'piss' too for all that I know, for THAT too is flowing water. <G>
But I think Akarsu is a very poetic surname. Sort of putting oneself at one
with nature and ecology. It IS beautiful and particularly apt for literary,
artistic people.
>
>> BTW, have you heard the joke about the chap who adopted the surname
>> Ku$ and was from then on addressed as BayKush (The Owl)?
>
> No, I didn't hear it.
No, I hadn't heard it, you mean. Well, now you have !
>
pro...@hotmail.com
> I didn't see any postings from you in f.e. rec.music.progressive,
> tehrefore I asked for.
I've been there for 13 years already, almost continuously, as well as
on other groups. You can see it with "View Profile".
> Do you the lists from this guy from Belgium? He has many obscure
> records, but his prices are beyond reasonable.
I don't know of him.
> > the '70s I remember perhaps a non-prog but still
> > traditional-arranged, hence pleasant for me, Turkish song on the
> > radio, with the name of a city - "Gaziantep", (or "The Road to
> > Gaziantep") but I forgot the
> > name
>
> "Antep yollarinda" could be the title of this song, but again, I'm not
> sure about this, it's a long time.
> Maybe it's from "Mogollar", or you mean "Camlica yollarinda" from
> Haramiler(?).
Could be.
> > of the artist. I also have a Chapman stick player from Turkey among
> > my myspace friends, though - Akim Unverian, yes, Armenian-sounding
> > last name. It happens...
>
> John Berberian must be a known musician to you, I suppose.
Only a name I know _of_, for now.
> I have not the link at the hand, but there is very good web site from
> an another belgian guy about "anatolian rock", with "homestead" in the
> address. Best wishes for you; if you're comin' from Hungary, Hungaria
> and some Omega from the early 70ies are fein.
Best wishes to you too, thank you. I definitely have some Hungarian
ancestry too, and I'm interested in exploring this side of my ethnic
identity, my very distant roots on my late dad's side, and also in
retrieving the linguistical part of this side of my ethnic identity as
well (for only the faith/denomination reached me, not even dad spoke
Hungarian and I didn't get to know my grandfathers on ether side), but
I was born only at the eastern boundary of what was once Transsylvania
or rather the Hungarian Empire - North-Western Moldavia (so not the
republic east of the Prut/Pyrethus river, but the other half of this
once entire country, west of the river). I too like Omega, among
others, and their friends, the cult band from where I am from -
Phoenix, or Transsylvania-Phoenix nowadays. Sometimes, both bands even
share a bill at nowadays' local summer festivals.
Acephale Lemar
> "Acephale Lemar" <nom...@org.invalid> wrote in message
>>> Or rather "Well done!"
>>
>> If you do something well, I'll say: Congratulations! ;-)
>
> You congratulate someone for his success. You say well done if he has
> done a good job of work. Subtle differences. NUANS FARKI !!!
A gentle, decent human being should always say: Congratulations!, IMO.
Agree not agree?
>>> I shoved it in to the hilt!!!! (LOL) But honestly this is what it
>>> means, though I am sure the poet has something else in mind.
>>> Anyway,
>>> I have had my good laugh...
>>
>> Not "up to the hilt"?
>
> And where did you get this, you dirty old man?
As I mentioned long time ago, from my dictionary. Here you can find it:
www.quickdic.de
>> What did you last night? I never said that my english is perfect.
>
> What did I _DO _ last night, you mean? You are doin' well, Acep.
You're right, my mistake: What did you di last night? is correct,
thanks for correcting me.
> Learning a language is no easy task unless you are a child. I'll give
> you a pat on the back. Aferin. Well done!!!
Thanks again.
>>
>> Sen misin, moruk? Ingilizce dersine baslayalim mi?
>
> Basliyalim ya...
Yasadigini bilmek hosuma gitti, ben de merak etmistim, acep gittin mi
bu alemden? diye.
>> Did you forget to set "?" at the end of your question?
>
> There, I have added it in now.
;-)
>>> If you want me to be serious, I'd translate that line as...
>>>
>>> "I hit rock bottom"
>>
>> In my online dictionary is just an example: She has hit rock bottom.
>> Means that she does it for 1 Euro, with everbody: a whore in the
>> gutter. If the singer Baris is male, what could he mean in your
>> opinion?
>
> Now, what was the original line in Turkish? You hit rock bottom when
> you hit rock bottom. What hitting rock bottom implies depends on the
> context.
Ok.
>> Do it honestly, not this snooty way.
>
> I wasn't being snooty. I meant what I said. I never intended to write
> that much. I thought I'd write a line or two at the most and post it.
I believe you but believe me too that sometimes your postings are more
in a schoolmasterly way= I perseive they so.
> But I ended getting up deeper and deeper into it. I guess the
> problems of translation hold a fascination for me and I can't get
> away from it. No, I wasn't being snooty at all.
It's forgotten and over.
>> He's arrived in the gutter due to his hotheaded love (or
>> obsession?).
>
> You mean he 'ended up in the gutter'. NUANS farki!!!
No, just a correction.
>> I know "still in shrink", if vinyl records were fabric sealed and
>
> The correct expression in English is 'factory sealed', Acep.
You're right.
> shrink the plastic wrap. 'Still in shrink' is wrong. The correct
> expression would be 'still shrink wrapped'.
Even british and american people= collecotrs write, speak so.
>> You're the same. Can live with it, morung. ;-)
>
> You mean 'moron'? Yeah, I am a moron. So what?
"ng" was typical for someone, I never said about morons nor you're one.
>>> This is a bit of a free translation which gives the real sense, the
>>> real meaning of the line in Turkish.
>>
>> I suppose that she's (HAD) a good cry and (IS) sad.
>
> I've taken the liberty of correcting your english with my additions
> in brackets.
Thank for, so it's well receipt by me. I enjoy this way. ;-)
>> Speak with me/ to me. Don't keep still= wordless.
>
> Don't REMAIN SILENT, is the expression you are looking for. An
It seemed very strange to my ears, therefore I prefered this
periphrasis.
> idiomatic expression in English would be 'Don't keep it to yourself'
> in the sense 'pour your heart out'. It is a well known psychological
> fact that it is better to talk about our problems rather than keep
> them to ourselves.
Evident explanation, ok.
>>>>> Yeter ki islak islak bakma öyle
>>>
>>> But please/And please do not look (at me) with moist eyes
>>
>> Cried out eyes look accusatory.
>
> No they don't. Ya$li goz niye suclamaci olsun?
It depens from the occasion, mostly the women don't cry for pleasure.
In this context I think, she looks so. Just a feel, nothing to explain
to convince you.
>>> Also 'surerim' is literally 'I plough' though here 'I'll plough' is
>>
>> Don't forget "araba sürmek", "boya sürmek" and so on.
>
> Tarlayi surup ekecek, lan! Yani bulut tarlasini surup yagmur
> ekecekmis. Aklina (yanlis anlama, senin akline degil, onun aklina)
> prasa suyu!!! Ben $ahsen kizlarin tarlalarini surup cocuk ekme'yi cok
> daha ilginc/cazib bulurum. Birak o mecnun da aklinca bulut tarlasi
> surup yagmur eksin.
Keep cool. ;-)
>>> "demlemek" is surely "to brew". You brew tea, you don't soak it.
>>> But
>>
>> What's about beer?
>
> Beer is also brewed. Yes it is brewed by soaking but it is 'brewed'.
> You talk about it as 'breweing' and not as 'soaking' !
"soak" was from the other dictionary, from turkish into english, and
with "cay" behind "demlemek" to differ it from other denotaions of
demlemek.
>> Maybe you've forgotten what love is?
>
> No, I haven't but I have come to realize it for what it is. Purely
> and simply temporary madness. Nothing more, nothing less.
Wisdom of your age? Maybe you're right.
>> log is like a diary, club like pestle. I'll= can stop the wheel of
>> fortune (if she wishes!).
>
> A log can be an entry in a written record/memo/diary etc etc but a
> log of wood is a log of wood. Kutuk yani. Noktali u'lerle. Topuz is
> club; like a golf club.
Interesting. ;-)
>>> The word "Islak" here is best translated as "moist" -- NO, I am not
>>> gona crack a dirty joke 'ere asking "moist where?", much as I'd
>>> like to !!! <G>
>>
>> You did it again, fan of pleasure principle.
>
> You've lost me. I don't know exactly what you mean. As for 'islak
> goz', there are two expressions in English. 'Moist eyes' and 'with
> tears running down her cheeks'. 'Wet eyes' is never used in English.
"moist where" can be understood in a sexual sense, you know?!
>> You're so lovely, I'm ashamed. I'm an excellent reader and
>> interpreter, but I know my lacks.
>
> Nice translation from the Turkish. You are obviously thinking in
> Turkish and translating your thoughts into English. Shall I correct
> it for you? 'Ere we go...
>
> You are so KIND, you make me feel EMBARRASSED. . I am an excellent
> reader and interpreter but I know my SHORTCOMINGS.
Oh, thanks again. Do it so, always, that I can profit from your
knowledges.
> The problem with life, Acep, is that the more we learn the more we
> come to realize our shortcomings and how much we DON'T know. But then
> such is life.
Humans must be learn untill their dead.
>>
>>> Who is this Baris Akarsu anyway. BTW, his name translates as Peace
>>> Flowing-Water, doesn't it? I take nobody has taken up the surname
>>> of Durgunsu.
>>
>> Akarsu= river, flow.
>
> Could be 'piss' too for all that I know, for THAT too is flowing
> water. <G>
> But I think Akarsu is a very poetic surname. Sort of putting oneself
> at one with nature and ecology. It IS beautiful and particularly apt
> for literary, artistic people.
Oh, I know many compound nouns with "su", it's common in Turkey. What
do you imagine when you hear "Serinsu"?
>>> BTW, have you heard the joke about the chap who adopted the surname
>>> Ku$ and was from then on addressed as BayKush (The Owl)?
>>
>> No, I didn't hear it.
>
> No, I hadn't heard it, you mean. Well, now you have !
Thanks for your patience.
Acephale Lemar
> On Apr 9, 7:47 am, "Acephale Lemar" <noma...@org.invalid> wrote:
>
>> I didn't see any postings from you in f.e. rec.music.progressive,
>> tehrefore I asked for.
>
> I've been there for 13 years already, almost continuously, as well as
> on other groups. You can see it with "View Profile".
I'm reading offline, not over google. I should open my eyes in next
time. I'm just a lurker in rmp, just a handful of people flaming
others, less information and so on.
>> Do you the lists from this guy from Belgium? He has many obscure
>> records, but his prices are beyond reasonable.
>
> I don't know of him.
Try with "horrific hundred" records.
>> John Berberian must be a known musician to you, I suppose.
> Only a name I know _of_, for now.
A innovative synthesis between turkish and armenian music, from USA.
> once entire country, west of the river). I too like Omega, among
> others, and their friends, the cult band from where I am from -
> Phoenix, or Transsylvania-Phoenix nowadays. Sometimes, both bands
> even
> share a bill at nowadays' local summer festivals.
Do you mean romanian group? Mugier de Flier, Canto Fabule (sp!) on
Eletrocord? So,e of them emigrated to Germany and had here a band but
I've forgetton the name. Sorry.
Acephale Lemar
Bu repost benim sunucunun yöneticisi tarafindan yollanmis olmali. Biraz
garip bir durum var ortada. bos zamanimda egilirim. 45 dakika önce
gönderdigim haberleri tek tek indirdim bilgisayara, onlar da repost
gönderilirse, birisinin cok bos zamani var demektir.
Lie-Buster
having got up quite early in the morning. But I'll try to respond as best I
can. Read on...
"Acephale Lemar" <nom...@org.invalid> wrote in message
news:eve3l6$7g9$1...@geiz-ist-geil.priv.at...
> Lie-Buster wrote:
>> "Acephale Lemar" <nom...@org.invalid> wrote in message
>
>>>> Or rather "Well done!"
>>>
>>> If you do something well, I'll say: Congratulations! ;-)
>>
>> You congratulate someone for his success. You say well done if he has
>> done a good job of work. Subtle differences. NUANS FARKI !!!
>
> A gentle, decent human being should always say: Congratulations!, IMO.
> Agree not agree?
Ingilizcede 'Well done!' yabana atilmaz. Bizdeki 'Aferin' gibi. Yerine gore
ya tebrik edilir ya da aferin denilir. Ingilizcede de ayni.
>
>>>> I shoved it in to the hilt!!!! (LOL) But honestly this is what it
>>>> means, though I am sure the poet has something else in mind.
>>>> Anyway,
>>>> I have had my good laugh...
>>>
>>> Not "up to the hilt"?
>>
>> And where did you get this, you dirty old man?
>
> As I mentioned long time ago, from my dictionary. Here you can find it:
> www.quickdic.de
Len Acep, bunun Turkcesi 'dibine kadar' olur. Ayip yaw, senin gibi ciddi
adam boyle sozleri agizina almamali !!! (G>
>
>>> What did you last night? I never said that my english is perfect.
>>
>> What did I _DO _ last night, you mean? You are doin' well, Acep.
>
> You're right, my mistake: What did you di last night? is correct,
> thanks for correcting me.
>
>> Learning a language is no easy task unless you are a child. I'll give
>> you a pat on the back. Aferin. Well done!!!
>
> Thanks again.
>
>>>
>>> Sen misin, moruk? Ingilizce dersine baslayalim mi?
>>
>> Basliyalim ya...
>
> Yasadigini bilmek hosuma gitti, ben de merak etmistim, acep gittin mi
> bu alemden? diye.
Ucuz kurtuldum. Durum gayet ciddiydi. Erken teshis edildi ve kaziyarak
aldilar. Simdilik acil bir tehlike yok. Sadece habersiz geri gelebilir bu
hastalik.
I certainly haven't heard it. Some people might say it but to me it sounds
all wrong. '
still shrink wrapped' is the more normal expression used in the UK.
'Enjoy' also always sounds wrong to my ears. You see, 'enjoy' is a
transitive verb. You enjoy SOMETHING. You enjoy your meal, you enjoy your
burgher, your KFC etc etc. But NEVER ever should one use the word 'Enjoy'
without specifying WHAT to enjoy. Sorry but I am a stickler for grammatical
rules. This fashion of using 'Enjoy' on its own crept to the UK from
America. And I don't indeep I CAN'T accept it. Like when they say so many
people were killed in the accident. People DIE in an accident. Killed is
when you deliberately kill people. OLDURULDU, anlaminda. OLDU anlaminda ise
Ingilizcede normal olarak DIE fiili kullanilir. Kazada insanlar OLUR,
OLDURULMEZ. Harp'te/Savasta bile insanlar OLUR. Kursuna dizilirlerse o zaman
OLDURULURLER. Demek ki Die = OLMEK to be killed = OLDURULMEK. Evet, olen de
oldurulen de tahtali koye gider fakat arada i$te yine de kucuk de olsa bir
nuans farki var, de'l mi ya? !
>
>>> You're the same. Can live with it, morung. ;-)
>>
>> You mean 'moron'? Yeah, I am a moron. So what?
>
> "ng" was typical for someone, I never said about morons nor you're one.
'nor are you one' is the right way of saying this in English. END of freebee
English lesson.
>
>>>> This is a bit of a free translation which gives the real sense, the
>>>> real meaning of the line in Turkish.
>>>
>>> I suppose that she's (HAD) a good cry and (IS) sad.
>>
>> I've taken the liberty of correcting your english with my additions
>> in brackets.
>
> Thank for, so it's well receipt by me. I enjoy this way. ;-)
>
>>> Speak with me/ to me. Don't keep still= wordless.
>>
>> Don't REMAIN SILENT, is the expression you are looking for. An
>
> It seemed very strange to my ears, therefore I prefered this periphrasis.
'Don't keep still' 'hareketsiz kalma' anlaminda. Ingilizcede pek
kullanilmaz. Daha dogrusu hic duymadim. Ingilizcede 'Keep still !' deyimini
cok duyarsin. Dedigim gibi senin soylemek istedigin anlamda ya 'Don't remain
silent' veya 'don't keep quiet' deyimleri kullanilir.
>
>> idiomatic expression in English would be 'Don't keep it to yourself'
>> in the sense 'pour your heart out'. It is a well known psychological
>> fact that it is better to talk about our problems rather than keep
>> them to ourselves.
>
> Evident explanation, ok.
>
>>>>>> Yeter ki islak islak bakma öyle
>>>>
>>>> But please/And please do not look (at me) with moist eyes
>>>
>>> Cried out eyes look accusatory.
>>
>> No they don't. Ya$li goz niye suclamaci olsun?
>
> It depens from the occasion, mostly the women don't cry for pleasure. In
> this context I think, she looks so. Just a feel, nothing to explain to
> convince you.
>
>>>> Also 'surerim' is literally 'I plough' though here 'I'll plough' is
>>>
>>> Don't forget "araba sürmek", "boya sürmek" and so on.
>>
>> Tarlayi surup ekecek, lan! Yani bulut tarlasini surup yagmur
>> ekecekmis. Aklina (yanlis anlama, senin akline degil, onun aklina)
>> prasa suyu!!! Ben $ahsen kizlarin tarlalarini surup cocuk ekme'yi cok
>> daha ilginc/cazib bulurum. Birak o mecnun da aklinca bulut tarlasi
>> surup yagmur eksin.
>
> Keep cool. ;-)
I AM keeping cool.
>
>>>> "demlemek" is surely "to brew". You brew tea, you don't soak it.
>>>> But
>>>
>>> What's about beer?
>>
>> Beer is also brewed. Yes it is brewed by soaking but it is 'brewed'.
>> You talk about it as 'breweing' and not as 'soaking' !
>
> "soak" was from the other dictionary, from turkish into english, and with
> "cay" behind "demlemek" to differ it from other denotaions of demlemek.
'soak' suya koymak, suya bastirmak anlaminda. Kuru fasulyeyhi soak yaparsin
(suya koyarsin) veya camasiri soak yaparsin (suya basarsin).
'brewing'de baska baska seyler de olur. Kimyevi degisiklikler olur, mesela.
>
>>> Maybe you've forgotten what love is?
>>
>> No, I haven't but I have come to realize it for what it is. Purely
>> and simply temporary madness. Nothing more, nothing less.
>
> Wisdom of your age? Maybe you're right.
It is certainly wisdom gained with age but that doesn't stop me making an
utter fool of myself and falling head over heels in love even at my age. We
never learn, do we?
>
>>> log is like a diary, club like pestle. I'll= can stop the wheel of
>>> fortune (if she wishes!).
>>
>> A log can be an entry in a written record/memo/diary etc etc but a
>> log of wood is a log of wood. Kutuk yani. Noktali u'lerle. Topuz is
>> club; like a golf club.
>
> Interesting. ;-)
>
>>>> The word "Islak" here is best translated as "moist" -- NO, I am not
>>>> gona crack a dirty joke 'ere asking "moist where?", much as I'd
>>>> like to !!! <G>
>>>
>>> You did it again, fan of pleasure principle.
>>
>> You've lost me. I don't know exactly what you mean. As for 'islak
>> goz', there are two expressions in English. 'Moist eyes' and 'with
>> tears running down her cheeks'. 'Wet eyes' is never used in English.
>
> "moist where" can be understood in a sexual sense, you know?!
That's EXACTLY what I was getting at!!!
>
>>> You're so lovely, I'm ashamed. I'm an excellent reader and
>>> interpreter, but I know my lacks.
>>
>> Nice translation from the Turkish. You are obviously thinking in
>> Turkish and translating your thoughts into English. Shall I correct
>> it for you? 'Ere we go...
>>
>> You are so KIND, you make me feel EMBARRASSED. . I am an excellent
>> reader and interpreter but I know my SHORTCOMINGS.
>
> Oh, thanks again. Do it so, always, that I can profit from your
> knowledges.
(knowlege -- always in singular. Same with info, information, fish (unless
you are referring to different TYPES of fish -- then and only then do you
say 'fishes' -- you talk of a million fish but two different FISHES)
>
>> The problem with life, Acep, is that the more we learn the more we
>> come to realize our shortcomings and how much we DON'T know. But then
>> such is life.
>
> Humans must be learn untill their dead.
Until they are dead, you mean. Or better 'until they die'. We go on learning
until we die, is an expression you could hear in English speaking
countries.
>
>>>
>>>> Who is this Baris Akarsu anyway. BTW, his name translates as Peace
>>>> Flowing-Water, doesn't it? I take nobody has taken up the surname
>>>> of Durgunsu.
>>>
>>> Akarsu= river, flow.
>>
>> Could be 'piss' too for all that I know, for THAT too is flowing
>> water. <G>
>> But I think Akarsu is a very poetic surname. Sort of putting oneself
>> at one with nature and ecology. It IS beautiful and particularly apt
>> for literary, artistic people.
>
> Oh, I know many compound nouns with "su", it's common in Turkey. What do
> you imagine when you hear "Serinsu"?
I know, I know. Such words sound romantic, don't they? Especially when
translated into another language where the combination sounds more striking.
It is like living in beautiful surroundings. Visitors tend to notice it
more. I live in a nice part of town and got used to seeing educated cultured
people around. It is only when I visit a poorer area of London that it
suddenly hits me. How peoople are different. One area can suddenly look
depressing and undesirable when you are used to seeing a better class of
people around you living in another area. Same with languages. When a piece
of literature is translated properly, it suddenly sounds so much more
interesting to foreign ears. Take Chinese years for example. The Year of the
Cat or the Year of the Dog certainly sounds more interesting that 2006 or
2007. I also enjoy reading the names of Red Indians. Those names convey
something of the character of the person. How nice. Pity we live in such a
fast world that we no longer have time for such niceties. Everything is
compartmentalized. Nice and neat but NOT interesting.
Still that's the end of my philosopohising. <G>
pro...@hotmail.com
> I'm reading offline, not over google. I should open my eyes in next
> time. I'm just a lurker in rmp, just a handful of people flaming
> others, less information and so on.
Oh, sorry. I have precisely that type of a problem right now there
with capolk and Tony Elka in the "Newbie 'ello" thread.
> Do you mean romanian group? Mugier de Flier, Canto Fabule (sp!) on
> Eletrocord?
Yes, yes, "Mugur de fluier" ("Whistle Bud") , "Cantafabule" ("Song
Fables", or "Fable Songs", spelling as "Cantofabule" is ok, as this is
how it was typo-ed by Electrecord back then in 1975) and also "Cei ce
ne'au dat nume" ("Those Who Gave Us a Name") - their first of three
original LP-s in the '70s.
So,e of them emigrated to Germany and had here a band but
> I've forgetton the name. Sorry.
Yes, that was 30 years ago. The band leader has been living in the
Alicante, Valencia, Spain region for a number of years now, though.
But back then, indeed, there was a moment when they decided to part
musical ways, although they regrouped about ten years later since
then. So maybe the band you refer two was the spin-off MadHouse with
the album "...from the East..." 1978 - a mixture of Queen, Electric
Light Orchestra, new wave, disco-like sounds and recycled/reused riffs
and themes from bass player Josef Kappl's first time in Phoenix.
Guitarist Erlend Krauser then went on in an ambient/muzak/mvie
soundtrack like direction.
Baba耑ey the Turk
you stinky ermeni bastard
<pro...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1176156188....@b75g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
pro...@hotmail.com
moron! If I were a Turk hater Armenian how would I dare asking for
translation help on the Turkish newsgroup and how would I enjoy such
conversations? What a fucking idiot!
On Apr 9, 6:43 pm, "BabaBey the Turk" <bababeythet...@bababeyler.net>
wrote:
Baba耑ey the Turk
news:1176166449....@b75g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
>Because I'm not Armenian and because I only hate white Canadians,
>moron!
then you are a liar thus an ermeni!
because you have signed several postings as eduard antonian,or am i
wrong,you lying ermeni bastard?
what about that Eduard Antonian Radio Yerevan in your postings?
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.romanian/browse_thread/thread/dc4bade8cf4e244a/bf40718ec1f6e8f5?lnk=st&q=&rnum=2#bf40718ec1f6e8f5
you lying piece of an ermeni pig!
what about this one,you ermeni pig?
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.romanian/msg/0b17b8972aa97af6?dmode=source
care to translate this one?
-Cand e vorba de
turci, toti suntem armeni.-
or maybe this one?
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.romanian/msg/d477315a8796a9b2?dmode=source
--- io tot n-am inteles proverbu: beware of
> the greek with a present?
Raspunde Radio Yerevan:
Nu, versiunea corecta a proverbului e deci "Beware of the Turk with a
past"'~ai. Deci ceva mai pe romaneste, totusi "cum ii turcu si kistolu'
".-
>If I were a Turk hater Armenian how would I dare asking for
>translation help on the Turkish newsgroup and how would I enjoy such
>conversations? What a fucking idiot!
as i've proved above you are nothing but an ermeni lying bastard!
another turk hater exposed,masallah!
On Apr 9, 6:43 pm, "Baba耑ey the Turk" <bababeythet...@bababeyler.net>
pro...@hotmail.com
curtain, you fucking idiot! I'm calling the FBI on you!
On Apr 9, 9:11 pm, "BabaBey the Turk" <bababeythet...@bababeyler.net>
wrote:
> <pro...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1176166449....@b75g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
>
> >Because I'm not Armenian and because I only hate white Canadians,
> >moron!
>
> then you are a liar thus an ermeni!
> because you have signed several postings as eduard antonian,or am i
> wrong,you lying ermeni bastard?
> what about that Eduard Antonian Radio Yerevan in your postings?http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.romanian/browse_thread/thr...
> you lying piece of an ermeni pig!
> what about this one,you ermeni pig?http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.romanian/msg/0b17b8972aa97...
> care to translate this one?
> -Cand e vorba de
> turci, toti suntem armeni.-
> or maybe this one?http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.romanian/msg/d477315a8796a...
> --- io tot n-am inteles proverbu: beware of
>
> > the greek with a present?
>
> Raspunde Radio Yerevan:
>
> Nu, versiunea corecta a proverbului e deci "Beware of the Turk with a
> past"'~ai. Deci ceva mai pe romaneste, totusi "cum ii turcu si kistolu'
> ".-
>
> >If I were a Turk hater Armenian how would I dare asking for
> >translation help on the Turkish newsgroup and how would I enjoy such
> >conversations? What a fucking idiot!
>
> as i've proved above you are nothing but an ermeni lying bastard!
> another turk hater exposed,masallah!
>
> On Apr 9, 6:43 pm, "BabaBey the Turk" <bababeythet...@bababeyler.net>
> > soundtrack like direction.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Baba耑ey the Turk
news:1176171623.2...@b75g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
>"Question at Radio Yerevan" used to be a common joke behind the iron
>curtain, you fucking idiot!
right,hungary the shithole you came from!
but still no answer why are you signing your postings as Eduard Antonian!
yeah,right,you are not an ermeni bastard!
a lying,scared,embarrassed ermeni bastard.
still scared to tell us what does it mean,
-Cand e vorba de
turci, toti suntem armeni.-
or what about your turk hater slogans like,
-"Beware of the Turk with a past"-
or
-"cum ii turcu si kistolu'"
today another armenian lying bastard was exposed!
my fellow turks,take note and chase this ermeni dog everywhere!
>I'm calling the FBI on you!
take your pills,you are a deranged ermeni bastard.
On Apr 9, 9:11 pm, "Baba耑ey the Turk" <bababeythet...@bababeyler.net>
> On Apr 9, 6:43 pm, "Baba耑ey the Turk" <bababeythet...@bababeyler.net>
Acephale Lemar
> On Apr 9, 3:35 pm, "Acephale Lemar" <noma...@org.invalid> wrote:
>
>> I'm reading offline, not over google. I should open my eyes in next
>> time. I'm just a lurker in rmp, just a handful of people flaming
>> others, less information and so on.
>
> Oh, sorry. I have precisely that type of a problem right now there
> with capolk and Tony Elka in the "Newbie 'ello" thread.
Yeah, I could read your postings in this thread.
> So,e of them emigrated to Germany and had here a band but
>> I've forgetton the name. Sorry.
>
> Yes, that was 30 years ago. The band leader has been living in the
> Alicante, Valencia, Spain region for a number of years now, though.
> But back then, indeed, there was a moment when they decided to part
> musical ways, although they regrouped about ten years later since
> then. So maybe the band you refer two was the spin-off MadHouse with
> the album "...from the East..." 1978 - a mixture of Queen, Electric
> Light Orchestra, new wave, disco-like sounds and recycled/reused
> riffs
> and themes from bass player Josef Kappl's first time in Phoenix.
> Guitarist Erlend Krauser then went on in an ambient/muzak/mvie
> soundtrack like direction.
It was Madhouse, and I have one record by Erlend Krauser, it:s more
ambient, boring stuff.
Thanks for your addendum.
Acephale Lemar
> Because I'm not Armenian and because I only hate white Canadians,
> moron! If I were a Turk hater Armenian how would I dare asking for
> translation help on the Turkish newsgroup and how would I enjoy such
> conversations? What a fucking idiot!
>
> <bababeythet...@bababeyler.net>
> wrote:
>> why don't you tell him you are a Turk hater Armenian?
>> you stinky ermeni bastard
Ignore him, please.
Baba耑ey the Turk
so you don't care about his antiturkish remarks!
what a great turk you are!
what about his Eduard Antonian Radio Yerevan in his postings?
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.romanian/browse_thread/thread/dc4bade8cf4e244a/bf40718ec1f6e8f5?lnk=st&q=&rnum=2#bf40718ec1f6e8f5
the lying piece of an ermeni pig!
what about this one?
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.romanian/msg/0b17b8972aa97af6?dmode=source
care to translate this one?
-Cand e vorba de
turci, toti suntem armeni.-
or maybe this one?
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.romanian/msg/d477315a8796a9b2?dmode=source
--- io tot n-am inteles proverbu: beware of
> the greek with a present?
Raspunde Radio Yerevan:
Nu, versiunea corecta a proverbului e deci "Beware of the Turk with a
past"'~ai.-
Acephale Lemar
> Oh, Acep, I feel so sleepy right now, not having slept much last
> night and having got up quite early in the morning. But I'll try to
> respond as best I can. Read on...
You can answer next day, not on the same day. More haste, less speed!
> Ingilizcede 'Well done!' yabana atilmaz. Bizdeki 'Aferin' gibi.
> Yerine gore ya tebrik edilir ya da aferin denilir. Ingilizcede de
> ayni.
Do you mean, that on different social levels or situations some people
say "Well done!", other people say "Congratulations!"?
>>>> Not "up to the hilt"?
>>>
>>> And where did you get this, you dirty old man?
>>
>> As I mentioned long time ago, from my dictionary. Here you can find
>> it: www.quickdic.de
>
> Len Acep, bunun Turkcesi 'dibine kadar' olur. Ayip yaw, senin gibi
> ciddi adam boyle sozleri agizina almamali !!! (G>
BTW an US poet(sic!) named Charles Bukowski had wrote a book with this
title: Dirty Old Man. ;-)
>> Yasadigini bilmek hosuma gitti, ben de merak etmistim, acep gittin
>> mi bu alemden? diye.
>
> Ucuz kurtuldum. Durum gayet ciddiydi. Erken teshis edildi ve
> kaziyarak aldilar. Simdilik acil bir tehlike yok. Sadece habersiz
> geri
> gelebilir bu hastalik.
What do english speakers say in such a sutiation: Watch your step! or
Be careful! or something different?
>>> shrink the plastic wrap. 'Still in shrink' is wrong. The correct
>>> expression would be 'still shrink wrapped'.
>>
>> Even british and american people= collecotors write, speak so.
>
> I certainly haven't heard it. Some people might say it but to me it
> sounds all wrong. '
> still shrink wrapped' is the more normal expression used in the UK.
"still shrink wrapped" is seldom seen by me.
> 'Enjoy' also always sounds wrong to my ears. You see, 'enjoy' is a
> transitive verb. You enjoy SOMETHING. You enjoy your meal, you enjoy
> your burgher, your KFC etc etc. But NEVER ever should one use the
> word 'Enjoy' without specifying WHAT to enjoy. Sorry but I am a
> stickler for grammatical rules. This fashion of using 'Enjoy' on its
> own crept to the UK from America. And I don't indeep I CAN'T accept
> it. Like when they say so many people were killed in the accident.
Actually there are two english versions that we are talking about:
british and USAmerican english. Even the british english is influenced
by USAmerican english since 1945. I understand your view but the
reality isn't so like you would have it.
> People DIE in an accident. Killed is when you deliberately kill
> people. OLDURULDU, anlaminda. OLDU anlaminda ise Ingilizcede normal
> olarak DIE fiili kullanilir. Kazada insanlar OLUR, OLDURULMEZ.
> Harp'te/Savasta bile insanlar OLUR. Kursuna dizilirlerse o zaman
> OLDURULURLER. Demek ki Die = OLMEK to be killed = OLDURULMEK. Evet,
> olen de oldurulen de tahtali koye gider fakat arada i$te yine de
> kucuk de olsa bir nuans farki var, de'l mi ya? !
die= ölmek, kill: katledilmek, I know.
>> "ng" was typical for someone, I never said about morons nor you're
>> one.
>
> 'nor are you one' is the right way of saying this in English. END of
> freebee English lesson.
"nor are you one" seems like a rhetorical question, but if you say,
this is right, I'll memorize this.
>>> Don't REMAIN SILENT, is the expression you are looking for. An
>>
>> It seemed very strange to my ears, therefore I prefered this
>> periphrasis.
>
> 'Don't keep still' 'hareketsiz kalma' anlaminda. Ingilizcede pek
> kullanilmaz. Daha dogrusu hic duymadim. Ingilizcede 'Keep still !'
> deyimini cok duyarsin. Dedigim gibi senin soylemek istedigin anlamda
> ya 'Don't remain silent' veya 'don't keep quiet' deyimleri
> kullanilir.
Ok, I'll regard this in the future.
>>> Beer is also brewed. Yes it is brewed by soaking but it is
>>> 'brewed'.
>>> You talk about it as 'breweing' and not as 'soaking' !
>>
>> "soak" was from the other dictionary, from turkish into english, and
>> with "cay" behind "demlemek" to differ it from other denotaions of
>> demlemek.
>
> 'soak' suya koymak, suya bastirmak anlaminda. Kuru fasulyeyhi soak
> yaparsin (suya koyarsin) veya camasiri soak yaparsin (suya basarsin).
>
> 'brewing'de baska baska seyler de olur. Kimyevi degisiklikler olur,
> mesela.
As I mentioned, is was from the other dictionary, special for "cay
demlemek". It's not my fault but their.
>> Wisdom of your age? Maybe you're right.
>
> It is certainly wisdom gained with age but that doesn't stop me
> making an utter fool of myself and falling head over heels in love
> even at my age. We never learn, do we?
I'm always learning from (or by or out?) my experiences.
>> "moist where" can be understood in a sexual sense, you know?!
>
> That's EXACTLY what I was getting at!!!
You're a dirty old man. ;-)
>> Oh, thanks again. Do it so, always, that I can profit from your
>> knowledges.
>
> (knowlege -- always in singular. Same with info, information, fish
> (unless you are referring to different TYPES of fish -- then and only
> then do you say 'fishes' -- you talk of a million fish but two
> different FISHES)
Thanks for the explanation.
>> Humans must be learn untill their dead.
>
> Until they are dead, you mean. Or better 'until they die'. We go on
> learning until we die, is an expression you could hear in English
> speaking countries.
Styslistically it looks/ sounds better. Accepted.
> foreign ears. Take Chinese years for example. The Year of the Cat or
> the Year of the Dog certainly sounds more interesting that 2006 or
> 2007. I also enjoy reading the names of Red Indians. Those names
> convey something of the character of the person. How nice. Pity we
> live in such a fast world that we no longer have time for such
> niceties. Everything is compartmentalized. Nice and neat but NOT
> interesting.
> Still that's the end of my philosopohising. <G>
Well known culture critism, ACK. What does "compartmentalized" mean? I
can not find it in my dictionary.
Lie-Buster
Lie-Buster
pro...@hotmail.com
> It was Madhouse, and I have one record by Erlend Krauser, it:s more
> ambient, boring stuff.
It sure was. I was intrigued and unpleasantly surprised as for why he
developed and how he could develop precisely in that direction after
being recruited at only 19, late 1976, for a music like Phoenix's. A
friend found two CD-s of Erlend Krauser in an HMV from NYC ten years
ago and taped them for me too, just for me to see how they were. One
of them was "Flight of the Phoenix" and the other, I forgot, sorry,
maybe a self-titled one. But surely one of them included a remake of
the main theme from a famous French movie of the '60s-'70s, something
with the rain maybe. Then I shared those tapes to another friend in
Canada, who had become interested in Phoenix too - so I tried to bring
hi too anything Phoenix-related. He had a little boy, perhaps even
less than one year old at that time. So he told me the little one was
falling asleep nicely while he played those tapes. :)
pro...@hotmail.com
> Ignore him, please.
Ok, thank you. But the scum of the USENET has to go. They all have to
be grabbed and send to fight in Iraq. I don't care on whose side. Only
for them to fight for their otherwise aimless, meaningless, and
miserable existences. They don't deserve their lives, they don't know
how to appreciate their being alive, they have to fight for their
right to live until they get their lives.
Baba耑ey the Turk
news:1176221030.3...@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
but you still haven't answered the question why are you hating us turks,also
why are you hiding the fact you are an ermeni?
still no answer why are you signing your postings as Eduard Antonian!
yeah,right,you are not an ermeni bastard!
a lying,scared,embarrassed ermeni bastard.
still scared to tell us what does it mean,
-Cand e vorba de
turci, toti suntem armeni.-
or what about your turk hater slogans like,
-"Beware of the Turk with a past"-
or
-"cum ii turcu si kistolu'"-
gogu
news:6bqdnbjbMoH...@giganews.com...
> <pro...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1176166449....@b75g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
>>Because I'm not Armenian and because I only hate white Canadians,
>>moron!
> then you are a liar thus an ermeni!
> because you have signed several postings as eduard antonian,or am i
> wrong,you lying ermeni bastard?
> what about that Eduard Antonian Radio Yerevan in your postings?
> http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.romanian/browse_thread/thread/dc4bade8cf4e244a/bf40718ec1f6e8f5?lnk=st&q=&rnum=2#bf40718ec1f6e8f5
> you lying piece of an ermeni pig!
> what about this one,you ermeni pig?
> http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.romanian/msg/0b17b8972aa97af6?dmode=source
> care to translate this one?
> -Cand e vorba de
> turci, toti suntem armeni.-
> or maybe this one?
> http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.romanian/msg/d477315a8796a9b2?dmode=source
> --- io tot n-am inteles proverbu: beware of
>> the greek with a present?
>
> Raspunde Radio Yerevan:
>
> Nu, versiunea corecta a proverbului e deci "Beware of the Turk with a
> past"'~ai. Deci ceva mai pe romaneste, totusi "cum ii turcu si kistolu'
> ".-
Baba bey may be a disgusting nazi turk, but this time he is correct!
This is indeed an Armenian-Hungarian-Romanian filthy racist who is called
Eduard Antoniu and he uses to call himself Antonian.
He repeatedly said in the Romanian ng that he is an Armenian but I see that
now he is shamelessly lying, the little coward worm!
He has also repeatedly expressed anti-Turkish sentiments in the most racist
manner...
The phrases he wrote above translate as following:
"when it comes to the Turks, we are all Armenians".
No need to translate the "Beware of the Turk with a past"...
And the last one is freely translated: "hpw is a Turk so is a pistol".
This is meant to show that Turks are barbarian and slaughter loving
people...
So this time the baba bey jerk discovered a...genuine Armenian and not a
fictional one:-)
--
E' mai possibile, oh porco di un cane, che le avventure
in codesto reame debban risolversi tutte con grandi
puttane! F.d.A
Coins, travels and more: http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/golanule/my_photos
http://gogu.enosi.org/index.html
>>If I were a Turk hater Armenian how would I dare asking for
>>translation help on the Turkish newsgroup and how would I enjoy such
>>conversations? What a fucking idiot!
>
> as i've proved above you are nothing but an ermeni lying bastard!
> another turk hater exposed,masallah!
>
>
> On Apr 9, 6:43 pm, "BabaBey the Turk" <bababeythet...@bababeyler.net>
Acephale Lemar
Beatiful anectode, it's just new age music. Silence is power. Or so.
Acephale Lemar
> On Apr 10, 5:47 am, "Acephale Lemar" <noma...@org.invalid> wrote:
>
>> Ignore him, please.
>
> Ok, thank you. But the scum of the USENET has to go. They all have to
I know that my english isn't the best, nevertheless I'll try to expalin
my opinion.
This is "mission impossible". Why? You haven't the means, funds and
power to forbid them to post into usenet.
> be grabbed and send to fight in Iraq. I don't care on whose side.
> Only
This sounds to me hateful, sign of resignation, even of faint.
> for them to fight for their otherwise aimless, meaningless, and
> miserable existences. They don't deserve their lives, they don't know
> how to appreciate their being alive, they have to fight for their
> right to live until they get their lives.
The best way to educate them, if this is possible, is to ignore them,
till they show that they have learned from their faults and are ready
to contribute in usenet in a constructive way. EOT due to OT. JFTR.
pro...@hotmail.com
> The best way to educate them, if this is possible, is to ignore them,
> till they show that they have learned from their faults and are ready
> to contribute in usenet in a constructive way. EOT due to OT. JFTR.
In my turn, please ignore the extremely perverse and dangerous,
Levantine prick, psychopath gogul. Many of us have contacted the
Interpol because of him. One English citizen even tried to trace gogul
but may have been misinformed by the Greek investigators he hired. The
day I'm able to contact the leadvocalist from the Romanian band
"Timpuri noi", gogul is finished. What you suggest is impossible for
gogul & Bey. This is the end of this thread. It went off-topic way
earlier, though.
Baba耑ey the Turk
news:1176304712.5...@d57g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
roumanian mongrel.here in germany we fuck your roumanian girls and
hungarians are the best whores.in my country turkey whore or romanian is the
same thing.fucking communist subhuman,we don't want you in germany
pro...@hotmail.com
end is near, though.
On Apr 11, 11:37 am, "BabaBey the Turk"
Baba耑ey the Turk
news:1176306084.9...@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
Fucking communist subhuman is the failed abortion of your mother. Your
end is near, though.
i am not a communist you stupid roumanian hungarian mongrel i am a proud
turk,son of the ottomans who fucked your mothers for five hundred
years.roumanians and hungarians here in germany are the worst thieves and
all your women are whores.they fuck for twenty euros like your mother.long
live Attaturk
On Apr 11, 11:37 am, "Baba耑ey the Turk"
arash...@yahoo.com
February 3, 2007
End The US-Israeli Undeclared War On Iran
Terrell Arnold
wecanstopit[AT]charter.net
Unless some higher wit injects sanity into the White House and Tel
Aviv, the U.S. and Israel appear about to carry out the most widely
advertised and least called for surprise attack in history. For months
the drumbeat has risen. According to U.S. neo-con advocates in the
Bush administration, echoed by the President himself in his State of
the Union address, Iran represents a grave danger to the Middle East
and the West. As reported by Pat Buchanan (see Hysteria at Herzliya
http://antiwar.com/pat/?articleid=10429), the annual Herzliya
Conference on Israeli National Security in January 2007 descended into
a hysterical verbal contest among attendees as to who could state the
most extreme version of the so-called Iran threat.
But perhaps the worst Herzliya charge was made by would-be
presidential candidate Newt Gingrich who asserted, "Three nuclear
weapons are a second Holocaust..." That was supposed to imply, as all
participants seem to have agreed, that if Iran had three weapons it
would use them on Israel or the United States.
That is a formula spun entirely out of whole cloth. First, there is no
evidence that Iran has even one weapon, let alone three. Second, the
IAEA (International Atomic Energy Agency) has constantly reported that
Iran is not even close to mastering the fuel cycle, much less to
building a weapon. Third, even IAEA recognition that Iran has not told
them everything does not lead those experts to change their basic
assessment. Fourth, U.S. and other experts, who assess the available
facts rather than speculative threats, have concluded that Iran, if it
chose to go there, could be a decade or more from the capability to
build a weapon. Fifth, even senior former Israeli officials have
expressed the fairly widely held view (expressed recently by France's
President Jacques Chirac-although, under Zionist political pressure,
he almost immediately recanted) that a few such weapons in Iranian
hands would not be a problem.
In the strict idiom of war and peace, at this moment a state of war
exists. The U.S. is poised in the Persian Gulf or is bringing to the
Persian Gulf enough naval firepower to start the war. As some have
suggested, this fleet is the material for a repeat of the fake Gulf of
Tonkin incident that led us into Vietnam. But for months the neo-cons
or close in supporters have talked about a U.S. attack or, instead of
U.S. forces, the Israelis would launch the attack. In recent weeks,
U.S. forces have raided an Iranian post, a consular or diplomatic one
by Iraqi government account that had been in northern Iraq for years.
Recently, by Presidential directive, orders have been given to kill
Iranian personnel in Iraq, apparently regardless of the legal or
diplomatic standing of those people or their acceptability to Iraqi
officials.
If another government carried out any or all of those acts against
U.S. facilities, personnel or officials in any country, the U.S. would
consider them acts of war, and it probably would strike. The whole
concept of preemptive action in the War on Terrorism is premised on
just such a dangerous and provocative interpretation of events.
It follows with ideologically iron efficiency that if Iran does or is
accused of doing anything to U.S. forces, civil personnel or
facilities, those responses, however self-defensive, will be
considered acts of war. They will be used to justify the long pending
assault on Iran. And the United States, or Israel, if attacked in any
way will claim to be the injured party and will retaliate. This is an
adolescent "don't cross my line" strategy from which escalation to all
out war could easily follow.
This situation is just another illustration of how warped the U.S.
position in the Middle East has become. Saddam never once threatened
the United States. However, the Bush administration talked itself and
alarmed the American people into thinking he, meaning Iraq, was a
threat. Ignoring the facts as presented particularly by UN nuclear
experts, as well as by our own intelligence and diplomatic officials,
Bush launched war on Iraq to destroy its nonexistent weapons of mass
destruction, then did a mad scramble to find a rationale for the
invasion when no weapons materialized. That scramble still lingers as
Bush and his key supporters struggle to define "success" in Iraq in
some fashion that may be deliverable before the whole house of cards
collapses.
How big a potential challenge to American power could Iran represent?
Look at the facts. (1) Iran is a country of 71+ million people,
largely Shias, who enjoy a per capita income of less than $9000 a year
equivalent. We consider that just slightly above the poverty line for
individuals in the United States. (2) Iran's national income is based
principally on two sectors, agriculture (the largest) and energy
(about a third of the total). (3) That means Iran has a third world
economy with at best a limited capacity to arm itself against wealthy
enemies such as the United States and Israel. (4) With energy
resources the major single source of foreign exchange income, and with
those resources beginning to decline, Iran has foreseeable need for
alternative energy sources, initially to take domestic pressure off of
its principal foreign exchange earner. (5) In its own long-term
economic interests, and consistent with a global need to reduce
manmade contributions to global warming, Iran should be working toward
nuclear and other alternative power. (6) Reasonable assessments are
that Iran is in the early stages of successful uranium refining to
power production purity. Most expert opinion is that Iran, therefore,
is years from having a nuclear weapon, quite aside from the fact that
it routinely denies any such objective. (7) Iran has no delivery
system capable of reaching the United States.
Realistically Iran does not appear to be a military threat to anyone
unless attacked. Iran's threat, if in any sense real, lies in its
habit of supporting Shia communities in surrounding countries, and
specifically with its practice of supporting insurgent groups,
Hezbollah in Lebanon and Hamas in Palestine. The principal problem
here is that Iranian support for these groups interferes with Israel's
plans for eventual takeover of all of Palestine, including southern
Lebanon, where most of Hezbollah is located. The Israeli hope,
probably vain, is that if Iran can be threatened or otherwise induced
to cut of aid to these groups they will be unable to resist Israeli
plans. However the demise of these groups might come about, Israelis
in general would welcome the end of the periodic rocket attacks along
Israel's frontiers with Lebanon and the West Bank or Gaza.
The double standard both the U.S. and Israel are attempting to enforce
is practically and morally unsustainable. As the standard is designed,
Israel is free to receive the most modern American weapons which,
under loose rules of "self-defense" it then is free to use to occupy
all Palestinian territory, herd the people into open prison camps, and
take the rest of Palestine away from them. Israel can bomb and strafe
Palestinian towns and villages without restraint, assassinate people
it believes might be militants capable of fighting back, and imprison
without trial any Palestinians it wouldn't like on the street.
US/Israeli rules are that the Palestinians are not supposed to have
weapons, and no government, Middle Eastern or otherwise, is supposed
to supply them with weapons. Governments that do are roundly
criticized. The same rules apply to Hezbollah in southern Lebanon.
Israel is free to attack Hezbollah by invading Lebanon and receiving
immediate re-supply of weapons by the U.S. during the battle, but
anyone who supplies Hezbollah is, again, roundly criticized and
labeled a pariah. Because many Arabs and others disagree with the
standard, it has proven unenforceable. Iran and Syria are recipients
of the criticism in both cases. Covertly other Arab and sympathetic
countries already provide money-- that can be turned into weapons- and
are likely to continue doing so if Iran were to stop.
The third, imaginative but illusory, threat from Iran is alleged to be
its intent to dominate the Middle East. The notion of Islamo-Fascism-
as invented by Israeli and neo-con propagandists--implies that Shia
extremists have in mind the demise of the west and domination of
countries of the Middle East region if not of the Islamic world
entire. Even if all of Shia Islam were of such a mind, which is
patently not the case, the numbers realistically do not support it.
Shia Muslims worldwide comprise less than ten percent of the followers
of Islam, a global number amounting to less than half the U.S.
population. Iran contains the largest number of the world's Shia
Muslims. More that two thirds of all Shia live in Iran, Iraq,
Pakistan, and India. The largest Muslim country of all, Indonesia, has
only 100,000 or so.
Iran is closely allied with Iraqi Shia for historic religious reasons.
The Iran/Iraq border was drawn without reference to this fact. Both
Iraqi and Iranian Shia, and Shia in general, revere the holy sites in
Iraq. Iran maintains ties through the Mullahs with Shia communities in
Lebanon, Pakistan, Canada, the U.S. and elsewhere. But it should be
said here that in most countries, the Shia are minorities who are
often poor and discriminated against. Among Muslims they are
doctrinally all over the map, about as diverse in their beliefs as
Baptists in the U.S. Thus, the idea of a Shia takeover of the Middle
East, militarily, economically, or religiously, is pretty far out. But
it makes scare mongering reading in biased pro-Israeli claims touted
by U.S. media.
The sum of those characteristics is that the alleged Iranian threat
against the United States or Israel is concocted. The prospect is
perfectly real that Iran will take steps to pursue its interests and
to support peoples it favors in nearby countries. The U.S. usually
does that by alleged right, but it opposes the efforts of others to do
so. In reality, however, the only threat on this landscape is that
Iran will do whatever it believes is necessary to be prepared to
defend its own interests and to support Shia elsewhere against attacks
or injustice. It is noteworthy that the newly published National
Intelligence Estimate on Iraq reportedly makes only glancing
references to any Iranian role in the current chaos. But if the U.S.
and Israel keep up the pressure, that inevitably will bend Iran toward
greater efforts to defend itself, including pursuit of nuclear
weapons. In the present U.S./Israeli threat environment, Iran is being
pushed that way by default.
In effect the U.S./Israeli approach to Iran is a nuclear proliferation
and war provocation strategy. Every new threat utterance of the U.S.
or Israeli officials, every new castigation of President Mahmoud
Ahmadinejad mostly by "misquoting" him, every act of aggression
against Iranian officials or facilities runs the Iranian defensive
compulsion a notch higher. Recent purchases of defensive missiles from
Russia are only symptomatic. Other purchases are likely to be
stimulated by the Bush State of the Union reference to sending a
second carrier group into the region.
Some Iranian involvement with the Shia minorities in many countries is
customary and likely to continue. As the leading Shia state worldwide,
Iran is a center of Shia religious philosophy. It has long standing
close relations with Iraqi Shia, who comprise 60% of Iraq's
population. Maintaining those ties and helping Iraqi Shia is therefore
quite natural. In fact, the Iraqi Shia would never understand a
failure of Iran to support them. Recent Afghan border region attacks
by Pakistani Sunnis (the majority population) against Shia (20% of the
Pakistanis) may also be some concern to Iran. It may be looked to for
help by the Shia minority.
In a number of places, such as the emirates, the Shia are minorities
who are discriminated against. Autocratic governments in Sunni
majority states, meaning most of the region, may therefore have some
cause to expect at least religious and family traffic between their
minorities and Iranian Shia. The suggestion that such relationships
would lead to Shia control of those states is mere rumor-mongering. To
the extent they could be a dissident element, better local treatment
of Shia minorities would alleviate much of the problem. However, the
larger problems for the autocratic Sunni states are their own
dissident Sunni, mostly young people and professionals who seek a more
open, participatory, and secular style of governance than either the
autocrats or the mullahs would enjoy.
As Iranian leadership would see this situation, their country is under
attack by the U.S. and Israel. The leading question is: How can Iran
arm and comport itself to limit the scope and consequences of that
attack on the Iranian people? And an important corollary question is:
How can Iran do that without giving away important national
capabilities such as the uranium fuel cycle only to get no enduring
peace or international standing in return? A treaty issue is: How can
Iran politically continue its membership in the Nuclear Non-
Proliferation Treaty (NPT) if the West and Israel persist in denying
it access to the fuel cycle that is provided by the treaty?
If, in this realistic threat environment, the U.S. or Israel attacks
Iran, it will be a catastrophe for the Middle East, for the United
States, and in the long run for Israel. The Iraq Study Group (ISG)
made the correct recommendation that both Iran and Syria be brought
into the process of taming Iraq. Both have long-standing and
legitimate interests in Iraq. Iran has deep and potentially helpful
links to Iraq's majority Shia population. On the other hand, if the
U.S. or Israel attack Iran, the whole of Shia Islam, including the
Iraqis, will be up in arms. The U.S. will have neither enough troops
of its own nor enough allies to contain the resulting chaos. It is
simply time to approach Iran, as well as Syria, diplomatically. It is
well past time to take the threat of war off the table.
* Terrell E. Arnold is a retired Senior Foreign Service Officer of the
U.S. Department of State whose immediate pre-retirement positions were
as Chairman of the Department of International Studies of the National
War College and as Deputy Director of the State Department Office of
Counter Terrorism.
http://www.rense.com/general75/dder.htm