I'm looking for a music store in Istanbul where i can buy a duduk!
peter
one via internet. I life in Germany and it is absolutely impossible to
get a duduk here.
thank you
Peter
yassu...@gmx.net
Ahmet Citipitioglu
left in Turkey!? Are you telling me that Armenians can actually live in
Turkey and sell duduks! NNoooooo...dont tell any diasporas, they'd probably
find them and kill em all to keep their thesis on track.....oh whatever
"peter" <yassu...@gmx.net> wrote in message
news:5735bad9.03010...@posting.google.com...
REAL
> Wait a second how can there be the slightest remnant of anything Armenians
> left in Turkey!? Are you telling me that Armenians can actually live in
> Turkey
No-one every claimed that Armenians not in Turkey. Just like there are still
Jews in Germnay.
> and sell duduks! NNoooooo...dont tell any diasporas, they'd probably
> find them and kill em all to keep their thesis on track.....oh whatever
Not a "thesis" but FACT
Dr. Raphael Lemkin who coined the word "genocide" in 1943. A Polish Jew whose
parents were killed in the Holocaust, Lemkin became the primary advocate for
the creation of the 1948 U.N. Genocide Convention.
http://www.preventgenocide.org/lemkin/index.htm
What Lemkin says is clear to all. "mass obliteration of nations" is genocide.
The german experience as Lemkin says is the most striking and thorough but so
are the "other examples of the destruction of entire nations, and ethnic and
religious groups". This is genocide.
Here are his words:
"In this way a mass obliteration of nationhoods had been planned throughout
occupied Europe. The Nazi leaders had stated very bluntly their intent to wipe
out the Poles, the Russians; to destroy demographically and culturally the
French element in Alsace-Lorraine, the Slavonians in Carniola and Carinthia.
They almost achieved their goal in exterminating the Jews and Gypsies in
Europe. Obviously, the German experience is the most striking and the most
deliberate and thorough, but history has provided us with other examples of the
destruction of entire nations, and ethnic and religious groups. There are, for
example, the destruction of Carthage; that of religious groups in the wars of
Islam and the Crusades; the massacres of the Albigenses and the Waldenses; and
more recently, the massacre of the Armenians."
------
"By its very legal, moral and humanitarian nature, it must be considered an
international crime. The conscience of mankind has been shocked by this type of
mass barbarity. There have been many instances of states expressing their
concern about another state's treatment of its citizens. The United States
rebuked the government of Czarist Russia as well as that of Rumania for the
ghastly pogroms they instigated or tolerated. There was also diplomatic action
in behalf of the Greeks and Armenians when they were being massacred by the
Turks.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Salute to a Rights Campaigner who gave Genocide its Name
Barbara Crossette, NYTimes.com - June 13, 2001
UNITED NATIONS, June 12 -- One hundred years after his birth, a largely
forgotten immigrant from Poland who coined the word genocide and pushed a
convention outlawing it through the General Assembly is being honored here,
thanks to a small human rights institute in New York campaigning to keep his
story alive.
The immigrant, Raphael Lemkin, a legal expert and linguist who died in 1959 at
58, had fought since 1933 to make genocide, which he first labeled a "crime of
barbarity," a recognized and punishable international offense. The convention,
adopted in December 1948, came into force in 1951. The United States did not
ratify it until 1988, in the waning days of the second Reagan administration.
Felice Gaer, director of the Jacob Blaustein Center for the Advancement of
Human Rights, the organization honoring Mr. Lemkin, said that although 132
countries had now ratified the convention, and genocide is regarded universally
as the worst of offenses, a number of countries where mass crimes against
ethnic or religious groups have been committed in recent decades have not
adhered to the agreement. Among them are Indonesia, Nigeria, Sierra Leone and
Sudan. Overall, most African countries and more than half a dozen Latin
American and Caribbean nations have not ratified the convention.
On Wednesday at the United Nations, the Clinton administration's ambassador for
war crimes, David Scheffer, and Secretary General Kofi Annan's wife, Nane
Annan, are to speak at the event focusing on Mr. Lemkin's legacy. (Mr. Annan
left Monday night for the Middle East.) Mr. Scheffer was the chief American
negotiator in the establishment of the International Criminal Court, which will
give a legal home for prosecution of genocide, war crimes and crimes against
humanity.
The treaty establishing the court was signed by Mr. Scheffer on behalf of the
United States on Dec. 31, but the Clinton White House did not try to fight for
its adoption in a hostile Congress and against the strong objections of the
Pentagon, which wants a guarantee that no American will ever be tried.
Secretary of State Colin L. Powell said here after a meeting with Mr. Annan
earlier this year that the Bush administration would never support the court.
United Nations officials say the administration has quietly asked the United
Nations whether it can rescind Washington's signature.
Mr. Lemkin first took up the cause of endangered minorities as a child in
Poland,
where he read "Quo Vadis" and became obsessed with images of early Christians
being
torn to death by lions in Rome as the crowds cheered, according to a new
biography
by William Korey, a writer on human rights topics. Dr. Korey is on the board of
the
Blaustein institute, part of the American Jewish Committee, which paid for Mr.
Lemkin's burial in Queens, where he died after a heart attack.
By 1933, before the world's attention - and Mr. Lemkin's - turned to Nazi
Germany, he was known internationally for his battle as a Polish prosecutor to
codify crimes against humanity and against cultural and artistic works of
ethnic groups, among them the Armenians who were the victims of the Ottoman
Turks. He fled Poland for Sweden in 1939 after the German invasion. His parents
died in the Holocaust nearly a decade later, though he did not know their fate
for several years.
By the end of World War II, and with the establishment of the United Nations,
Mr. Lemkin moved to New York to begin his campaign for a genocide convention.
Writing and teaching law intermittently at Duke University and Yale, he lobbied
endlessly and often annoyingly, according to Dr. Korey, until the Genocide
Convention won a place on the United Nations' agenda.
"Genocide" first appeared in 1944, the Oxford English Dictionary says, in a
book by Mr. Lemkin, "Axis Rule in Occupied Europe," which was published in the
United States by the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace. He told his
contemporaries that he had stumbled on the idea while reading Plato, who used
the Greek word genos to describe
a clan or ethnic group.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As well-stated by Stanley Cohen, Professor of Criminology at Hebrew University
in
Jerusalem:
"The nearest successful example [of "collective denial"] in the modern era is
the 80 years of official denial by successive Turkish governments of the
1915-17 genocide against the Armenians in which some 1.5 million people lost
their lives. This denial has been sustained by deliberate propaganda, lying and
coverups, forging documents, suppression of archives, and bribing scholars. The
West, especially the United States, has colluded by not referring to the
massacres in the United Nations, ignoring memorial ceremonies, and surrendering
to Turkish pressure in NATO and other strategic arenas of cooperation."
Law and Social Inquiry, Vol. 20, No. 1, Winter 1995, pp. 7-50.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
All the heroes deserve remembrance
Robert Fisk, The Independent - 7 March 2001
'Many survivors of the Armenian genocide have told me of courageous Turks who
saved
the lives of their families'
On Turkish television a few days ago, an extraordinary event took place. A
Turkish writer and historian lectured his people on the facts ` the reality `
of the Armenian Holocaust of 1915. In front of a nationwide audience, Dr Taner
Akcam advised penitence. "If you can't bring yourself to describe it as
genocide, call it a massacre," he said. "But it was a crime against humanity...
Ask forgiveness from the Armenian people and... make a commitment that in
Turkey, political dissent and disagreement should no longer be treated as an
offence."
These were not easy things for a Turkish audience to hear. From their
schooldays, Turks are taught that the Armenian community of Ottoman Turkey
betrayed the empire by siding with the Russians in the First World War, that
Armenian deaths on the great deportations from Turkey were a by-product of
civil unrest. The truth ` that one and a half million Armenians were
deliberately destroyed by the Ottoman Turks in 1915, their menfolk
bayoneted,shot and drowned, their womenfolk raped and starved in
government-organised deportations to the Syrian desert on the orders of Talat
Pasha ` is hidden from them. Any Turk who suggests otherwise is a traitor to
the Turkish nation which gave him birth and to Mustafa Kemal Ataturk, founder
of the Turkish state.
So of course, Dr Akcam was interrupted during the bitter six-hour Turkish
television programme. "How dare you let this man speak? Shut him up!" came an
imperious voice over a phone link-up. It was Semra Ozal, widow of former
President Turgot Ozal of Turkey. But Dr Akcan did not give up. "Unless we
distance ourselves from the perpetrators of this crime, which was a genocide
["soykirim" in Turkish], we will never be able to relieve ourselves of this
terrible burden," he said. A brave man, Dr Akcam. So too, Yavuz Baydar, who in
the same day's Turkish Milliyet newspaper wrote that he "was always convinced
of the necessity to show courage and to take to task Talat and company for
their misdeeds... These men are our Pol Pots, Berias and Stalins, and the
sooner we call these crimes to account, the better our chances of redeeming
ourselves from this scourge of being accused of genocide."
These words are an indictment of the cowardice of the Blair Government, which
tried to exclude the Armenian Holocaust from Britain's Holocaust Memorial Day
in January and which eventually invited just 20 Armenians to attend. Mr Blair,
presumably mindful of Britain's strong economic links with Turkey ` as well as
Turkey's role in Nato and its alliance with Israel ` wanted to stick to the
political safety of post-1940 genocides. A letter from BBC producer Daniel
Brittain-Catlin to an Armenian group in France, admitting that the Home Office
would have "overall editorial control" of its coverage ` in itself an
astonishing statement from a BBC official ` said that the outside broadcast "is
likely to include some reference to, albeit briefly, the Armenian genocide".
"Albeit briefly". That was the best we could do for one and a half million
Armenians. Messrs Akcal and Baydar were certainly braver than Mr
Brittain-Catlin. But how should the Armenians respond? They have long demanded
recognition of their suffering at the hands of the Turks. They have insisted
that modern-day Turkey should admit what the Ottoman Turks did: they committed
an Armenian Holocaust that was the precursor of the Jewish Holocaust less than
a quarter of a century later.
But many of the survivors of the Armenian genocide have told me of individual
courageous, honourable Turks who saved, or tried to save, the lives of their
families. Not long before he died in Beirut, Zakar Berberian ` who was 12 at
the time ` recalled the massacres at Marash in 1915; how he saw Turkish
gendarmes drop babies on the stone flags of the streets; how, if the babies
survived, the gendarmes picked the infants up by their feet and dashed their
brains out on the stones, watched by their hysterical mothers. During the
deportations, both his parents died of cholera. "I should have died," he said.
"But a Turk gave me food to survive."
The ghosts of this tiny band of saviours pass through the pages of the massive
Bryce report on the Armenian genocide, published by the British Foreign Office
in 1916. Here we read of Arab villagers trying to feed the Armenians bundled
towards Aleppo on railway freight wagons ` shades of the European freight cars
that would take another people to their annihilation less than three decades
later ` and of Tahsin Bey, governor of Erzerum in 1915. "About this time," two
American witnesses recorded, "orders arrived by which Tahsin Bey was instructed
that all Armenians should be killed. Tahsin refused to carry this out and,
indeed, all through the time he was reluctant to maltreat the Armenians, but
was overruled by 'force majeur'." Elsewhere, Tahsin Bey does not appear in this
humanitarian light. But then, wasn't Oskar Schindler also a member of the Nazi
Party?
Armenians themselves are taught at school of the brave governor of Aleppo,
Jelal Pesha, who said he was a governor, not an executioner ` who said "it is
the natural right of a human being to live." He saved thousands of lives. But
it is the small man ` the good Turk ` who occasionally shines out of the Bryce
report. On the deportation to Ras al-Ain in 1915, Maritza Kedjedjian was a
witness to the rape of young women by Kurds. "When they were going to carry off
another girl," she wrote later, "I asked Euomer Tchaoush, a Mardin man, to help
us." "Tchaoush" means he was a Turkish army corporal.
Maritza goes on: "He stopped them at once and did not let them take [the girl]
away... The Kurds from the surrounding villages attacked us that night. Euomer,
who was in charge of us, immediately went up to the heights and harangued them
in Kurdish, telling them not to attack us. We were hungry and thirsty and had
no water to drink. Euomer took some of our [drinking] vessels and brought us
water from a long way off... The wife of my brother-in-law... had a baby born
that night. The next morning we started again. Corporal Euomer left some women
with her and kept an eye on her from a distance. Then he put the mother and the
new-born child on a beast, and brought her to us in safety."
Could there be a more moving story from the killing-fields of the Armenian
Holocaust? And should the Armenians not commemorate it ` indeed, remember all
those brave Turks who acted out of compassion and refused to obey orders? The
Israelis long ago developed the fine principle of honouring the "righteous
gentile", those men and women who ` at risk of their lives ` tried to save the
victims of the 20th century's second Jewish Holocaust. Is it not time that the
Armenians did the same? Though those Turks were painfully few in number,
Armenians would be acknowledging the humanity of some of Ottoman Turkey's
citizens. And how would the Turks react? By refusing to honour these brave
fellow Turks? Or by remembering their courage and thus ` by the same token `
accepting the fact of the Armenian genocide?
Dr Akcam deserves such a gesture. So does the Turk who gave food to 12-year-old
Zakar Berberian. And so does Corporal Euomer.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Birdal's Armenian trial continues
Turkish Daily News, 20 April, 2001
The trial in which former Human Rights Association Chairman Akin Birdal has
been accused of insulting the Turkish nation continued in Ankara yesterday. It
was claimed that Birdal said during a conference in Germany that everyone knew
what was done to the Armenians and that Turkey should apologize to all its
minorities for the way they were treated.
While Birdal and his lawyer Sedat Aslantas attended the hearing in court,
diplomats from the United States', German, Belgium and Danish embassies
followed the trial as well.
The judge of the case, which is being carried out at No. 2 Higher Criminal
Court, Nuri Yilmaz, said they have not received an answer from the Office of
the Prosecutor to determine the address of the Gozcu daily newspaper's
correspondent, who reported Birdal's speech in Germany. Yilmaz postponed the
trial citing the lack of a response for the reporter's address.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jewish, Armenian Remembrances Begin Today
Larry B. Stammer - April 21,2001
Jews and Armenians, whose people were systematically murdered during two 20th
century genocides, mark man's inhumanity to man with remembrances beginning
today.
Jews will observe Yom Hashoah, or Holocaust Remembrance Day, while Armenians
will mark the 86th anniversary of the Armenian genocide.
Six million Jews were murdered by the Nazis during World War II. Armenians
estimate that 1.5 million of them were murdered between 1915 and 1923. Most
historians agree that the Ottoman Turks during and after World War I organized
massacres and large-scale deportations of Armenians to Syria. The Armenians
were accused of collaboration with Russia, which occupied northern Turkey.
Turkey, whose population is primarily Muslim, has denied that a genocide of its
ethnic Armenians, a Christian community, took place, but acknowledges that as
many as 600,000 Armenians were left dead, saying that most died of exposure and
starvation.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Turkey's top rights activist on trial over Armenian genocide
AFP
ANKARA, March 1 (AFP) - Turkey's leading human rights activist Akin Birdal went
on trial here Thursday for allegedly accusing the Ottomans of genocide against
the Armenian minority, Anatolia news agency reported.
Birdal, 53, is charged with "openly slandering and humiliating the Turkish
nation" in remarks he allegedly made to a German panel calling on Turkey to
apologize to Armenians for genocide. He faces up to a six-year jail term if
convicted. Birdal, who was present in court, denied making the remarks. "I
talked about the injustices inflicted on different minorities in Turkey at
different times in history, but I did not say that Turkey should apologize for
the Armenian genocide," he told the court.
The trial was adjourned until a later date, Anatolia said. A former head of
Turkey's Human Rights Association, Birdal was only released from jail in
September after serving a 10-month sentence for sedition over his appeals for a
peaceful solution to the Kurdish conflict.
The activist, who was seriously wounded in an assassination attempt in May
1998, had previously served a year in jail for activities deemed supportive of
the outlawed Kurdistan Workers Party which waged a 15-year armed campaign
against Turkey for Kurdish self-rule.
Turkey is extremely sensitive to claims of genocide against Armenians during
the dissolution years of the Ottoman Empire. Armenia claims that some 1.5
million Armenians were killed in 1915 while Turkey estimates 300,000 Armenians
and thousands of Turks died in internal fighting. Ankara was angered by
France's recent adoption of a bill recognizing the killings as genocide, and
has threatened economic reprisals.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Turkish, Kurdish members of German anti-genocide group visit Armenia
Armenian TV CH 1 - 24 April 2001
YEREVAN
[Presenter] A Turkish and Kurdish organization called Association Against
Genocide was established three years ago in Frankfurt. Five members of this
organization who are visiting Armenia today paid tribute to the victims of the
genocide committed by the Turks 86 years ago. Interviewed by "Aylur" at
Tsitsernakaberd [Yerevan memorial to genocide victims], Turkish scientist Ali
Ertem, who lives in Germany, said that recognition of the genocide was very
important above all for the Turks, so that the new generation could condemn the
crimes of past generations.
[Reporter] This is already the third time that Turkish and Kurdish members of
Germany's Association Against Genocide have visited Yerevan on 24 April. Today
they laid flowers at the monument to the genocide victims.
[Ali Ertem] Denial of the 1915 genocide is the greatest obstacle to
Armenian-Turkish relations and Turkey's economic development. Our organization
has already collected the signatures of 11,000 Turks living in Germany on a
petition calling for the recognition of the Armenian genocide. A week ago our
organization got together with an Armenian organization and several other
organizations in Germany and tried to put the recognition of the Armenian
genocide on the German parliament's agenda. I can say that Armenians are not
alone today concerning international recognition of the genocide. We shall be
persistent in resolving this issue.
[Fall Demir], representative of the Kurdish community in Germany] The Armenian
genocide is one of the greatest crimes of the 20th century. Failure to condemn
it was one of the reasons for the Jewish Holocaust and Hitler's actions in
World War II.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
“I refer to those awful massacres. They are the greatest stain that has ever
disgraced our nation and race. They were entirely the work of Talat and Enver.
I heard some days before they began that they were intended. I went to Istanbul
and insisted on seeing Enver. I asked him if it was true that they intended to
recommence the massacres which had been our shame and disgrace under Abdul
Hamid. The only reply I could get from him was: 'It is decided. It is the
programme.’ ”
-Prince Abdul Mecid
Heir-Apparent to the Ottoman Throne, during an interview...
“Surely a few Armenians aided and abetted our enemy, and a few Armenian
Deputies committed crimes against the Turkish nation... it is incumbent upon a
government to pursue the guilty ones. Unfortunately, our wartime leaders,
imbued with a spirit of brigandage, carried out the law of deportation in a
manner that could surpass the proclivities of the most bloodthirsty bandits.
They decided to exterminate the Armenians, and they did exterminate them.”
-Mustafa Arif
Minister of Interior stated December 13, 1918
NEW-YORK TIMES
------------------------------------------------------------------------
TURKISH STATESMAN DENOUNCES ATROCITIES
October 10, 1915 (II-19:3,4)
Cherif Pasha Says Young Turks Long Planned to Exterminate the Armenian. An
arraignment of a Young Turks, or the Committee of Union and Progress, as having
for years plotted the extermination of the Armenian people, is contained in a
letter recently addressed by Mehmed Cherif Pasha to the Editor of the Journal
de Geneve. The views of this eminent exile should doubtless be considered in
the light of the fact that he was obliged to fly from his native land because
of his secession from the party now in power in Turkey, but even his
enemies-and that he has formidable ones is evidenced by the nearly successful
attempt made upon his life by Turkish police agents in Paris about two years
ago-must admit that he has had excellent opportunities for observation of the
Young Turks policy, since he was prominent in their councils when they first
obtained power on the overthrow of the Abdul Hamid regime, and left their ranks
to build up the Liberal opposition party only when he became convinced that
their leaders had no intention of carrying out the program of reform to which
they were pledged. He is the son of the late Said Pasha, who was one of the
chief advisers of Abdul Hamid and the first Grand Visier under the new
Constitution. His wife is Princess Emanine, the daughter of Prince Halim, and
he is the brother-in-law of Prince Said Halim, the present Grand Visier. He,
himself, was at one time Turkish minister to Sweden.
After branding the Armenian atrocities perpetrated under the present regime as
a surpassing the savagery of Genghis Khan and Tamerlane, Cherif Pasha
continues: "To be sure, the state of mind of the Unionists was not revealed to
the civilized world until they had openly taken sides with Germany; but for
more than six years I have been at exposing them in the Mecheroutiette (his
newspaper, published first in Constantinople and then in Paris) and indifferent
journals and reviews, warning France and England of the plot against them and
against certain nationalities within the Ottoman borders, notably the
Armenians, that was being hatched. "If there is a race which has been closely
connected with the Turks by its fidelity, by its services to the country, by
the statesman and functionaries of talent it has furnished, by the intelligence
which is manifesting in all domains-commerce, industry, science, and the
arts-it is certainly the Armenian. " Cherif Pasha then enumerates some of the
contributions which Armenian have made to Turkish civilization, including the
introduction of printing and the drama, and gives credit to an Armenian, Odian
Effendi, for having collaborated with Midhat Pasha in framing the Ottoman
Constitution, and he lays stress upon their fine qualities as agitators against
the despotisms of Turkey and Persia-qualities, one suspects which have not
highly recommended them to the autocratic "reformers" of the Young Turk regime.
And he continues:
"Alas! at the thought that a people so gifted, which has served as the
fructifying soil for the renovation of the Ottoman Empire, is on the point of
disappearing from history-not enslaved, as were the Jews by the Assyrians, but
annihilated-even the most hardened heart must bleed: and I desire, through the
medium of your estimable journal, to express to this race which is being a
assassinated my anger toward the butchers and my immense pity for the victim's.
"Having fulfilled this pious duty, let me make some exceptions relating not to
the unhappy Armenian nation but to certain individual Armenians and some
propagandist groups who have for the last six years so maladroitly constituted
themselves the defenders and apologists of this Committee of Union and
Progress, the broader of all their present sufferings. How often have I warned
them against the bad faith of the unionists, the perversity of whose black
souls I knew only too well!
Besides, the massacres of Adana, provoked by the Union's orders, to have
brought
them to a sense of the real state of affairs. Some of them by a wrong
appreciation of their interest, others influenced by political alliances of an
evil sort-like that poor Constantinople deputy, Zohrab Effendi, who has
expiated his errors on the scaffold-all the Armenian political leaders, or
almost all, by identifying themselves with the political fortune of the Union,
have compromised, instead of serving their national cause.
"If, instead of enrolling themselves under the banner of that baneful and
treacherous association, they had ranged themselves openly beside the true
liberals who had long been pointing out the danger of their course, even at
peril of their lives, they would not only have remained true to their
principles, but they would also have spared their unfortunate brethren the
persecutions they suffered before the war and their whole nation the prospect
of an extermination unique in the annals of history."
-----
"In its attempt to carry out the purpose to resolve the Armenian question by
the destruction of the Armenian race, the Turkish government has refused to be
deterred neither by our representations, nor by those of the American Embassy,
nor by the delegate of the Pope, nor by the threats of the Allied Powers, nor
in deference to the public opinion of the West representing one-half of the
world."
-Count Wolf-Metternich
German Ambassador to the Ottoman Empire
Seanie O'Kilfoyle
"Ahmet Citipitioglu" <gt7...@mail.gatech.edu> wrote in message
news:av4463$j7n$1...@news-int.gatech.edu...
First try http://www.duduk.com
Or if you like, visit the Armenian sector of Istanbul
It is called Bakirkoy, its streets are awash with Armenian businesses
Good luck
WolfWolf
"REAL" <nospam...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3E15A0D7...@hotmail.com...
> Ahmet Citipitioglu wrote:
>
> > Wait a second how can there be the slightest remnant of anything
Armenians
> > left in Turkey!? Are you telling me that Armenians can actually live in
> > Turkey
>
> No-one every claimed that Armenians not in Turkey. Just like there are
still
> Jews in Germnay.
More lies from SHITHEAD FASCIST SLIMY unREAL!!
The same way he rejected to accept Kurdish CDs from a music store in
Istanbul, now he is giving us again his nonsensical mumbo-jumbo about
Armenians in Turkey.
FASCIST SLIMY LIAR unREAL has no idea about the subject, no credibility nor
any honest intentions.
WolfWolf
The European
peter
Thank you,
I'll trie it.