SEVEN MORE REPRESENTATIVES JOIN ARMENIAN CAUCUS (fwd)
Federation of Turkish American Associations
YAVAS YAVAS AMERIKAN KONGRESI ERMENI GRASSROOT CALISMALARININ ETKISI ILE
VE ERMENILERIN SENATORLERE PARA TOPLAMA KAMPANYALARI ILE DONMEYE
BASLIYACAK... BIZ TURKLER AMERIKANIN 4 BIR KOSESINDE BIRER KONSER
DUZENLENDIK, ADINA 75 INCI YIL KUTLAMALARI DEDIK, BU ARADA ERMENI
FANATIKLERININ KONGREYI ELE GECIRME CALISMALARINI HIZLANDIRDI VE
KENDILERI ICIN COK IYI BIR ADIM ATTILAR
NELER YAPMADIK BU VATAN ICIN NE NUTUKLAR SOYLEDIK , NE KONSERLER VERDIK
LALE DEVRINDE ISE KAPLUMBAGALARI KANDILLE YURUTTUK.
HERSEYE RAGMEN NE KADAR TEMELLI VE KOKLU KISILERMISIZKI HALA AYAKTAYIZ VE
UFAK TEFEK BOLUNMELERE RAGMEN, KITLE OLARAK MUCADELEYE DEVAM ETMEKTEYIZ
DEGERLI KARDESLERIM, SIZLERIN 1956 SENSINDE KURMUS OLDUGUNUZ FTAA
GUCUNU SIZLERDEN VE BAGLI DERNEKLERINDEN ALMAKTADIR.
TURKIYEMIZ ICIN VE TOPLUMUMUZ ICIN ULU ONDERIMIZIN CIZDIGI YOLDA HER TURLU
ENGELLERE RAGMEN CALISMAYA DEVAM EDECEGIZ, GONUL ISTERDIKI SU KARANLIK
GUNLERDE ANKARADANDA MUSPET BIR DESTEK GELSIN, BELKIDE YOLDADIR?.
Kaya Buyukataman, II Baskan
FTAA
Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 11:36:49 -0700
From: BKONS <turk...@pacbell.net>
> > > >Armenian Assembly
> > > >PRESS RELEASE
> > > >
> > > >FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE CONTACT: John DeTrana
> > > >October 15, 1998
> > > >(202) 393-3434
> > > > e-mail:jo...@aaainc.org
> > > >
> > > >SEVEN MORE REPRESENTATIVES JOIN ARMENIAN CAUCUS
> > > >
> > > >Washington, DC-The Armenian Assembly announced today that seven more
> > > >Representatives have joined the Congressional Caucus on Armenian Issues
> > > >this month, making it one of the largest ethnic caucuses in Congress.
> > > >
> > > > The Caucus now totals 72 members of Congress. Created in 1995,
> > > >it provides a forum for legislators to discuss ways in which the United
> > > >States can work with the people of Armenia to promote economic and
> > > >democratic development. It is co-chaired by Representatives Frank
> > > >Pallone (D-NJ) and John Edward Porter (R-IL).
> > > >
> > > > "The Caucus is the primary vehicle in Congress to help foster
> > > >the US-Armenian relationship," said Armenian Assembly Congressional
> > > >Relations Director Bryan Ardouny. "I am delighted that the Caucus,
> > > >which represents a diverse background of Democrats and Republicans from
> > > >across the country, continues to increase its membership."
> > > >
> > > > The new members are Jon D. Fox (R-PA), Nancy Pelosi (D-CA), John
> > > >E. Sununu
> > > >(R-NH), John F. Tierney (D-MA), Henry A. Waxman (D-CA), Jerry Weller
> > > >(R-IL), and Albert Russell Wynn (D-MD).
> > > >
> > > >* Currently in his second term, Representative Jon D. Fox
> > > >cosponsored two pieces of legislation aimed at speeding up the Nagorno
> > > >Karabagh peace process: The first was the "Caucasus Peace and Stability
> > > >Act of 1997" which requires the US to facilitate direct talks between
> > > >Nagorno Karabagh and Azerbaijan as a means to peacefully resolving the
> > > >conflict. The second was the "United States-Caucasus Policy Act of
> > > >1997" which provides incentives for the government of Azerbaijan to lift
> > > >its blockades of Armenia.
> > > >
> > > >* Representative Nancy Pelosi led the successful September 17
> > > >House floor fight in support of maintaining Section 907 of the Freedom
> > > >Support Act. As ranking Democrat of the Foreign Operations Subcommittee
> > > >of the House Appropriations Committee, she plays an important role in
> > > >Congressional foreign policy spending decisions.
> > > >
> > > >* Elected in the 105th Congress, Representative John E. Sununu
> > > >voted in favor of maintaining Section 907 during the recent House vote.
> > > >Representative Sununu said, "I am excited about this opportunity to
> > > >strengthen the US-Armenia relationship, and I look forward to
> > > >participating in the development of our shared values of democracy and
> > > >freedom overseas."
> > > >
> > > >* Freshman Representative John F. Tierney succeeded Representative
> > > >Peter Torkildsen (R-MA) who was also a supporter of Armenian issues in
> > > >Congress. Representative Tierney continues that district's tradition of
> > > >supporting Armenian issues with his vote to maintain Section 907.
> > > >
> > > >* Representative Henry A. Waxman is serving his thirteenth term in
> > > >the House of Representatives. A long-time friend of the Armenian
> > > >community, he too, voted in the House to maintain Section 907
> > > >restrictions against Azerbaijan.
> > > >
> > > >* Representative Jerry Weller has an excellent record of
> > > >supporting Armenian issues in Congress and has attended numerous
> > > >Armenian Assembly forums in his Illinois district. He most recently
> > > >voted to maintain Section 907 of the Freedom Support Act.
> > > >
> > > >* Representative Albert Russell Wynn has strongly supported
> > > >Armenian issues. He voted for an amendment reducing foreign aid to
> > > >Turkey because of its gross human rights violations, including its
> > > >blockade of Armenia. Most recently, he voted in favor of continuing
> > > >Section 907 restrictions.
> > > >
> > > > The Armenian Assembly has strongly supported membership
> > > >growth of the Armenian Caucus through grassroots efforts. An additional
> > > >seven Representatives joined the Caucus earlier this session, raising
> > > >the membership from last year's 58.
> > > >
> > > >The Armenian Assembly of America is a nationwide, nonpartisan nonprofit
> > > >organization which promotes public understanding and awareness of
> > > >Armenian issues.
> > > >
> > > > ###
> > > >NR#1998-097
> > > >
TUGRUL7999
Federasyonun Mali imkanlari dahilinde,sizlerin yapmakda oldugu calismalar
hepimiz icin umit kaynagidir.Yapmakta oldugunuz faaliyetleriniz icin size ve
idare heyetinize tesekkur eder basarili gunler dilerim.Turklerin Amerikaya
yerlesmeleri son 50 yilda olmustur.Amerikaya gelip yerlesen ilk nesil,
cocuklarini, doktor,avukat,gibi kazancli mesleklerde yetistirdiler.Bundan
sonraki nesillerin politika hayatina gireceklerini tahmin ederim.Bu hususun
Amerikaya yerlesen diger milletlerde boyle oldugu
gorulmektedir.Calismalarinizda basarilar temederim. Tugrul.
RALPETT
who support anything Armenian. At least this time they didn't mention genocide
but if they do, they will certainly not be re-elected
Erogul
Amerikada yerlesmis belli guruplarin politik
tesiri yeni bir olay degil..
Amerikan senatosunun ve idarenin
degerli elamanlari,milli cikarlara oncelik taniyacak kapasitededir.
Turkiye her gecen gun daha guclenmekde.
Guneydogunun kalkinmasi,zenginlesmesi
her engele ragmen devam edecekdir.
Kotumser olmayiniz.
Ulusumuzu ve vatanimizi iyi gunler bekliyor.
Selam ve sevgiler.
MACREAU
Ask Kurds and Cypriots if Turks are peace loving!!!!!!
RALPETT
action? Nicos Sampson and the Greek juanta in Athens. Ask the PKK, why the
Turks are fighting them? Don't try to make excuses and blame the Turks for all
that is happening in that area of the world. If I was the Prime Minister of
Turkey, I would have done exactly the same thing.
KingARARAT
Ays abooshin mi krer vor gorsvi yerta!
Shnorhagalootyun.
Takavorn' Ararati
HAYASTAN ASHKHAR
=
KingARARAT
ARMENIAN NATION
SERAFET
mac...@aol.com wrote
in message-id:
<19981023205610.20201.00000226@
ng15.aol.com>
Hey Ralpett,
Ask Kurds and Cypriots if Turks
are peace loving!!!!!!
Hey Macreau,
Who attact who first?
Who tries to break through border lines?
Who infiltrades into Kurdish villages in Turkiye?
What do you expect Kurds and Greeks
To say to you or anyone with a questio
like that?
I am beginning to think, you are so biased
that no matter what the reality is, you , are asleep in your little world.
Wake up!!!!!!
Bilkay98
would say this: What about the attempted overthrow of the Cypriot government by
the greeks and eoka-b first of all and then the terrorism of PKK? Answer that
and then we can try and discuss these probems resonably, but I doubt if Macreau
is reasonable
Bilkay98
Armenian lies and know else about the reat of the world?????
Bilkay98
women who will be responding to all the postings that we all have seen on this
subject in the very near future.. you all mya be very surprised to hear their
ideas!!!!!
Bilkay98
lies and obfuscation as alwyas..besides, he's an old man and will soon be dead,
so who gives a shit about Macreau. I wished he lived in Los Angeles so i could
visit him???
Bilkay98
the US an Armenian family that have been friends with her mom/dad, my
grandparents, for years..Seems no Armenian group would help them but thanks to
Allah, my mom is not like Armenians..AShe did help and these people will be
able to start a new life here..Thanks for all your Armenian propoganda about
being so carring
MACREAU
soap operas.
Erenkoy
edip durmuyormusun?
Bu konuda calismak sadece ve sadece internetle milletin mailbozlarini flood
etmekle olmaz.
Bu konuda calisanlar ise isimlerini her bir tarafa yapistirmak yerine isimsiz
kalip ugras veriyorlar. Bu ugras neticesini secimlerden sonra goreceksiniz.
Ozellikle Pallone'ye dikkat.
jma...@my-dejanews.com
You have to understand that Turkey's continued denial of the Genocide is at
the root of Turkish-Armenian conflict. Until Turkey actually fesses up to what
it had done to 1.5 million Armenians, there will be no detente between the
Armenian and Turkish peoples (regardless of the countries' relations).
It is curious that very, very few Turks would dare admit that what the Ottoman
Empire did in 1915 was wrong. They admit that the Ottoman Empire was awful,
and that modern Turkey is different, but they will defend the Ottomans'
genocide until their last breath.
In article <19981026020343...@ng24.aol.com>,
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
SERAFET
what Armenians did to Turks, in 1915?
All is fair in love and war but not if
Turks are involved???
Do on to Turks, what you would want
them to do on to you!!!!!
I have more pearls of wisdom,
for you guys, they'll be coming your way
as long as you keep pushing your
onesided opinions.
pipe...@my-dejanews.com
jma...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
>
> If what you write is true, then your mother is indeed a noble person.
>
> You have to understand that Turkey's continued denial of the Genocide is at
> the root of Turkish-Armenian conflict. Until Turkey actually fesses up to what
> it had done to 1.5 million Armenians, there will be no detente between the
> Armenian and Turkish peoples (regardless of the countries' relations).
>
> It is curious that very, very few Turks would dare admit that what the Ottoman
> Empire did in 1915 was wrong. They admit that the Ottoman Empire was awful,
> and that modern Turkey is different, but they will defend the Ottomans'
> genocide until their last breath.
Turkish people cannot admit to anyting as long as Armenians continue to
act as if they were blameless babes during those years and that they
didn't take part in any atrocities themselves. Many civilian Turks died
at the hands of the Armenians during that year, and in comparable
numbers, though they certainly aren't this well publicised. If the
Armenians had for just once conceded this, and that the evil deeds and
atrocities of the time were bilateral, reconciliation could have been
much more easier. But no, they have to turn themselves into blameless
victims, and turn us into Nazis. The ghouls of the past being not enough
for them, they have to distort history, abuse it to use it as an axe
against the Turkish people in their vendetta. This is not justice to the
past, this is not fighting for rights, this is outright malice. So, as
long as the Armenian stance remains like this, nobody will accept
anything. It's simple defensive mentality, totally unproductive i'll
admit, but equally unavoidable
In 1915, both nations failed a humanity test. The Armenians were
fighting for independence, the Turks were figthing for defence and
survival. The reasons don't matter. What matters is that all restraints
and civility broke down -aided in this by no small measure by the powers
that be- as two people who had co-existed for centuries butchered each
each other. You are too free and quick in demanding our acceptance. What
do YOU accept yourself?
piper
KingARARAT
fighting for independence, the Turks were figthing for defence and
survival.>>>
Which propaganda course did you learn this from, "piper"? Certain groups of
Armenians might have been independence minded, however, the Armenians as a
whole did not request independence. Your biggest mistake is saying that
Armenians were "fighting" for independence. Armenians never faught for
independence! If some had swords in their hands, that was only to defend their
villages and their families against the barbaric clans who invaded, raped, and
killed! Don't bullshit me!
<<<Many civilian Turks died
at the hands of the Armenians during that year, and in comparable numbers,
though they certainly aren't this well publicised.>>>
Thats why present day Eastern Turkey is full of Armenians right? If you are
ignorant, that is OK, atleast use some common sense here!
You and your likes write crap like this, then you wonder why Armenians are so
full of anger and animosity towards the Turks. You are another uneducated
lonely person in desperate need of education, 911, 911.
KingARARAT
ARMENIAN NATION
jma...@my-dejanews.com
pipe...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
> Turkish people cannot admit to anyting as long as Armenians continue to
> act as if they were blameless babes during those years and that they
> didn't take part in any atrocities themselves. Many civilian Turks died
> at the hands of the Armenians during that year, and in comparable
> numbers, though they certainly aren't this well publicised. If the
> Armenians had for just once conceded this, and that the evil deeds and
> atrocities of the time were bilateral, reconciliation could have been
> much more easier. But no, they have to turn themselves into blameless
> victims, and turn us into Nazis. The ghouls of the past being not enough
> for them, they have to distort history, abuse it to use it as an axe
> against the Turkish people in their vendetta. This is not justice to the
> past, this is not fighting for rights, this is outright malice. So, as
> long as the Armenian stance remains like this, nobody will accept
> anything. It's simple defensive mentality, totally unproductive i'll
> admit, but equally unavoidable
>
> In 1915, both nations failed a humanity test. The Armenians were
> fighting for independence, the Turks were figthing for defence and
> survival. The reasons don't matter. What matters is that all restraints
> and civility broke down -aided in this by no small measure by the powers
> that be- as two people who had co-existed for centuries butchered each
> each other. You are too free and quick in demanding our acceptance. What
> do YOU accept yourself?
Piper,
Thank you for your thoughtful reply. Actually, I agree with you. However,
the differences between the violences perpetrated were quite different. The
action of a few insurgents (who, of course, included violence and murder in
their campaign for independence) does not compare to the systematic, planned
and pragmatic rounding up of just about everyone of the *same ethnicity* all
around Ottoman lands, and then deporting and murdering them. The insurgent
Armenians in eastern Anatolia did not march into Istanbul and murder over a
million Turkish civilians, women and children just because they were of the
same ethnicity as the people whom they thought were occupying their
anscestral lands. If you see read some of the quotes of Turkish officials at
that time, quoted by unbiased (as in, not Armenian, not Greek, not
Russian--primarily British, American and German) sources, you will see that
the Turkish leadership were rather plain about seeing the presence of
(Christian) Armenians as a nuisance and an impediment to their vision of a
purely Turkish, purely Muslim populace. The fact that some Armenians were
fighting for land near Van was just a sidenote; it's not as if the Ottomans
weren't also losing more than half their empire through the Balkans and
Arabia as well.
However, Turkish history has distorted this and made it seem like every
Armenian living on Ottoman land, every woman and child, was in full collusion
with the Armenian insurgents, and that they were bloodthirsty killers, all
ready to kill every Turk around them. This is called dehumanization, and
this is what distinguishes a war and genocide.
So when you talk about "mistakes being made on all sides", remember who
composed those sides, and ask yourself if you are confusing certain movements
with *entire races* of people. Apparently, the progenitors of your current
government have done the same, and continue to do the same. Turkey's war
against Kurdish separatism is becoming increasingly an attack on the Kurdish
people, regardless of where they live or their political affiliation, instead
of on the PKK members.
pipe...@my-dejanews.com
KingARARAT wrote:
>
> <<<The Armenians were
> fighting for independence, the Turks were figthing for defence and
> survival.>>>
>
> Which propaganda course did you learn this from, "piper"? Certain groups of
> Armenians might have been independence minded, however, the Armenians as a
> whole did not request independence. Your biggest mistake is saying that
> Armenians were "fighting" for independence. Armenians never faught for
> independence! If some had swords in their hands, that was only to defend their
> villages and their families against the barbaric clans who invaded, raped, and
> killed! Don't bullshit me!
so, the Turks, beset by World War One on all fronts and collapsing
infrastructure on the inside, not finding their troubles enough, would
be attacking the absolutely blameless Armenian people for the heck of
it. Come on! If there was a propanganda course, yours appears to be more
leaky then mine. I won't argue with you on this thread, as you are too
biased for a meaningful discussion, and perhaps so I am too.
Just remember this, if your prejudices permit you: The histories both of
us were brought up on are official histories meant to justify and
perpetuate hatred between two peoples. They're mirror images of each
other: it's the other side that does everything bad, you're innocent
victims, so they're ugly sonsofbitches with horns and tails and that
it's good to vent the righteous anger, etc etc. Even the supposedly
neutral sources of the time are to one extent or another playthings of
history in this or that cause. Think of the number of times and ways you
have learned the simple truth of the genocide and the righteous hatred
of Turks, the perpetrators of it all. I have done this myself for our
version, and even though i still believe a gret deal of it, it's
humbling for one to realize the magnitude of propaganda he has been
bombarded with since his birth. Then try to think like as if you hadn't
received all that, that you are thinking in ways that were not laid out
for you since before you were born. And if you don't choose to, well
never mind me, i'm just bullshitting.
piper
pipe...@my-dejanews.com
> Piper,
>
> Thank you for your thoughtful reply. Actually, I agree with you. However,
thank you, for yours
> the differences between the violences perpetrated were quite different. The
> action of a few insurgents (who, of course, included violence and murder in
but you see jmaks, that's the whole problem. Since I've begun reading
these forums, or argue about the subject elsewhere, I haven't seen, read
or heard one Armenian mention these "few insurgents". This is no
exaggeration. Not one. Are they so unimportant as to be not worth the
mention? And if they are important, why aren't they mentioned?
> the Turkish leadership were rather plain about seeing the presence of
> (Christian) Armenians as a nuisance and an impediment to their vision of a
> purely Turkish, purely Muslim populace.
I do not dispute the deportation, and the terrible tragedy that arose from
it, but I must correct you on one point: There has never been a movement to
ethnically cleanse the Anatolia. There has never been an "Ottoman
Nationalizm". Ottomans are/were not a nation, they are an amalgam, something
that has no comparison today and became defunct at the beginning of the era
of nationalizm, hence their unraveling. Their basis of existance was that
they were a ruling class over peoples of many different ethnicities, all
under the sultanate. The world knew them as Turks, but the very word "Turk",
was a taboo word inside the empire until the beginning of 19.th century. The
very idea of nationalism was poison to them and utterly foreign. (That's also
the chief reason why Turkish nationalism emerged much later than the others:
yours, Greeks,etc). Therefore, the deportations could not have been been an
ethnic cleansing movement of the sort seen in the WWII and onwards, they must
have been for security reasons. Grossly misthought, and even more ineptly
executed without doubt, but there must have been enough "few insurgencies"
which are not "beside the point" to provoke such a response. Again, the
response might have been overblown compared to the threat, but a threat there
must have been, not just urges of ethnic purity in the middle of a world war
raging on all fronts.
The fact that some Armenians were
> fighting for land near Van was just a sidenote; it's not as if the Ottomans
> weren't also losing more than half their empire through the Balkans and
> Arabia as well.
It's true the empire was losing ground right and left, but the Armenians were
the only people at the time to whom deportation could have been applied to.
the Arabs were nomadic and spread too far, the Balkans were already gone, and
the Anatolian Greeks had not yet revolted (and by the time they had, the
empire itself was gone)
> So when you talk about "mistakes being made on all sides", remember who
> composed those sides, and ask yourself if you are confusing certain movements
> with *entire races* of people. Apparently, the progenitors of your current
> government have done the same, and continue to do the same. Turkey's war
sorry, jmaks, but you are not there, and we are. And it is not. It's
the whole story over again, I'm very much afraid.
> against Kurdish separatism is becoming increasingly an attack on the Kurdish
> people, regardless of where they live or their political affiliation, instead
> of on the PKK members.
Okay, forget it. Forget all I said. We could sit here for months, bouncing
mails off each other, swapping figures and history as we know them, talking
more out of gut feeling and belief than fact even though we might not
sometimes realize that, just like fish aren't aware of water. Just tell me
this: why hate now? why hate still? Even if anything happened, I am not
guilty of what my great greandfathers did and so aren't you of yours. Why
hate US,here and now? I've written in another message that our points of view
were biased mirror images of each other, but really, what we have here is not
this all-encompassing and does not approach the level I've seen in postings
by other Armenians. Does this hate arise ONLY from the fact that we've still
failed to acknowledge your genocide theory? Is hatred of Turks such a great
part of your peoples' cultural identity?
Let me tell you something. I don't know who exactly killed whom, and I don't
believe anybody's "facts" : not yours, not ours, not anybody's. When
history's distorted by so many parties, made plaything in the hands of so
many people with so strong prejudices, facts lose their meaning and it is as
George Orwell said in 1984:"War is Peace" and "Ignorance is Strength" So I
don't five a damn anymore. All i can say for myself is that I want to live in
peace with my neighbor. Nothing else matters. The ghosts of the past poison
us. They poison us with accusations of enormous crimes, and they poison you
with hatred
But only because we let them
regards
KingARARAT
<<<so, the Turks, beset by World War One on all fronts and collapsing
infrastructure on the inside, not finding their troubles enough, would
be attacking the absolutely blameless Armenian people for the heck of
it. Come on!>>>
Piper,
Once again, the Genocide was a factual event that we ALL have to accept one day
or another. There are no BUTs and IFs. Remember my words, one day or another,
the Turkish government will accept that it was Genocide. But your government is
still in the midst of a political game that will continue for a while. When it
no longer has the power to make economic threats to such countries as France
and Belgium for if the Genocide is officially recognized by those countries, it
will also accept it. The present economic and political climate does not allow
such a major step.
The issue is not too complicated. Of course it can not be explained in a few
lines, but it comes down to the following. The Ottomans had already lost most
of its empire, including the Balkans. All that was left of this "sick man of
Europe" was Asia Minor, including Western Armenia, and parts of Arabia. As you
said, the Arabs were too far from the main core of the Empire, and the losing
of those territories was also anticipated. What was left was the "best" of the
Empire, Asia Minor and Armenia. Turks feared that Armenians were going to
demand independence JUST AS all the others in the empire had asked for, and had
been awarded, decided to embark on a policy to exterminate and deport the
entire Armenian populace of Western Armenia, thus securing a large piece of
land that couldnt have been lost anymore.
There is MUCH more to it than what I just wrote, but this mainly why it
happened.
What do you think?
KingARARAT
ARMENIAN NATION
Erenkoy
Armenian Genocide of 2.5 Million Muslim People
_The Jewish Times_ June 21, 1990
_An appropriate analogy with the Jewish Holocaust might be the
systematic extermination of the entire Muslim population of
the independent republic of Armenia which consisted of at
least 30-40 percent of the population of that republic. The
memoirs of an Armenian army officer who participated in and
eye-witnessed these atrocities was published in the U.S. in
1926 with the title 'Men Are Like That.' Other references abound._
A. Lalayan, _Revolutsionniy Vostok (Revolutionary East)_
No: 2-3, Moscow, 1936.
-One of the architects of the Armenian genocide
of 2.5 million Muslim people_
_I killed Muslims by every means possible. Yet it is
sometimes a pity to waste bullets for this. The best
way is to gather all of these dogs and throw them into
wells and then fill the wells with big and heavy stones,
as I did. I gathered all of the women, men and children,
threw big stones down on top of them. They must never live
on this earth._
Leonard Ramsden Hartill, _Men Are Like That_ The Bobbs-Merrill
Company, Indianapolis (1926).
_Memoirs of an Armenian officer who participated in the Armenian
genocide of 2.5 million Muslim people_
_Foreword:_
_For example, we were camped one night in a half-ruined Tartar
mosque, the most habitable building of a destroyed village, near
the border of Persia and Russian Armenia. During the course of
evening I asked Ohanus if he could tell me anything of the history
of the village and the cause of its destruction. In his matter of
fact way he replied, Yes, I assisted in its sack and destruction,
and witnessed the slaying of those whose bones you saw to-day
scattered among its ruins._
p. 218 (first and second paragraphs)
_We Armenians did not spare the Muslims. If persisted in, the
slaughtering of Tartars, the looting, and the rape and massacre
of the helpless become commonplace actions expected and accepted
as a matter of course.
I have been on the scenes of massacres where the dead lay on the
ground, in numbers, like the fallen leaves in a forest. Muslims
had been as helpless and as defenseless as sheep. They had not died
as soldiers die in the heat of battle, fired with ardor and courage,
with weapons in their hands, and exchanging blow for blow. They had
died as the helpless must, with their hearts and brains bursting
with horror worse than death itself._
Leonard Ramsden Hartill, _Men Are Like That_ The Bobbs-Merrill
Company, Indianapolis (1926).
_Memoirs of an Armenian officer who participated in the Armenian
genocide of 2.5 million Muslim people_
p. 15 (second paragraph)
_The Tartars [Muslims] were, for the most part, poor. Some of them
lived in villages and cultivated small farms; many of them continued
in the way of life of their nomadic forefathers. They drove their
flocks and herds from valley to valley, from plain to mountain, and
from mountain to plain, following the pasturage as it changed with
the seasons. They ranged from the salt desert shores of the Caspian
Sea far into the mighty Caucasus Mountains. Even the village Tartars
are a primitive people, only semicivilized.
I can see now that we Armenians frankly despised the Tartars, and,
while holding a disproportionate share of the wealth of the country,
regarded and treated them as inferiors._
p. 20 (second paragraph)
_Our men armed themselves, gathered together and advanced on the
Tartar section of the village. There were no lights in the houses
and the doors were barred, for the Tartars suspected what as to
happen and were in great fear. Our men hammered on the doors, but
got no response; whereupon they smashed in the doors and began a
carnage that continued until the last Tartar was slain. Throughout
the hideous night, I cowered at home in terror, unable to shut my
ears to the piercing screams of the helpless victims and the loud
shouts of our men. By morning the work was finished._
Leonard Ramsden Hartill, _Men Are Like That_ The Bobbs-Merrill
Company, Indianapolis (1926).
_Memoirs of an Armenian officer who participated in the Armenian
genocide of 2.5 million Muslim people_
p. 109 (second paragraph).
_The method of execution was for an Armenian government 'mauserist'
to walk up behind the condemned Muslim in his home or on the street,
place a pistol to the back of his head and blow out his brains.
This simple way of getting rid of those who were undesirable in
the view of the Armenian government and soon became a common way
of paying debts._
p. 202 (first and second paragraphs)
_We closed the roads and mountain passes that might serve as
ways of escape for the Tartars and then proceeded in the work
of extermination. Our troops surrounded village after village.
Little resistance was offered. Our artillery knocked the huts
into heaps of stone and dust and when the villages became untenable
and inhabitants fled from them into fields, bullets and bayonets
completed the work. Some of the Tartars escaped of course. They
found refuge in the mountains or succeeded in crossing the border
into Turkey. The rest were killed. And so it is that the whole
length of the borderland of Russian Armenia from Nakhitchevan to
Akhalkalaki from the hot plains of Ararat to the cold mountain
plateau of the North were dotted with mute mournful ruins of
Tartar villages. They are quiet now, those villages, except for
howling of wolves and jackals that visit them to paw over the
scattered bones of the dead._
Leonard Ramsden Hartill, _Men Are Like That_ The Bobbs-Merrill
Company, Indianapolis.
_Memoirs of an Armenian officer who participated in the Armenian
genocide of 2.5 million Muslim people_
p. 203 (second paragraph)
_One evening I passed through what had been a Tartar village. Among
the ruins a fire was burning. I went to the fire and saw seated about
it a group of soldiers. Among them were two Tartar girls, mere children.
The girls were crouched on the ground, crying softly with suppressed
sobs. Lying scattered over the ground were broken household utensils
and other furnishings of Tartar peasant homes. There were also bodies
of the Muslim dead._
p. 204 (first paragraph)
_I was soon asleep. In the night I was awakened by the persistent crying
of a child. I arose and went to investigate. A full moon enabled me to
make my way about and revealed to me all the wreck and litter of the
tragedy that had been enacted. Guided by the child's crying, I entered
the yard of a house, which I judged from its appearance must have been
the home of a Muslim family. There in a corner of the yard I found a
women dead. Her throat had been cut. Lying on her breast was a small
child, a girl about a year old._
_San Francisco Chronicle_ (December 11, 1983)
_We have first hand information and evidence of Armenian
atrocities against our people (Jews). Members of our family
witnessed the murder of 148 members of our family near Erzurum,
Turkey, by Armenian neighbors, bent on destroying anything and
anybody remotely Jewish and/or Muslim...Armenians were in league
with Hitler in the last war, on his premise to grant themselves
government if, in return, the Armenians would help exterminate
Jews. Armenians were also hearty proponents of the anti-Semitic
acts in league with the Russian Communists._
Signed Elihu Ben Levi, Vacaville, California.
"U.S. Library of Congress" _Bristol Papers_ - General
Correspondence Container #34.
_While the Dashnaks [x-Russian Armenian Government] were in
power they did everything in the world to keep the pot boiling
by attacking Kurds, Turks and Tartars; by committing outrages
against the Moslems; by massacring the Moslems; and robbing and
destroying their homes. During the last two years the Armenians
in Russian Caucasus have shown no ability to govern themselves
and especially no ability to govern or handle other races under
their power._
_Bristol Papers_, General Correspondence: Container #32: Bristol
to Bradley Letter of September 14, 1920.
_I have it from absolute first-hand information that the
Armenians in the Caucasus attacked Tartar (Muslim) villages
that are utterly defenseless and bombarded these villages
with artillery and they murder the inhabitants, pillage the
village and often burn the village._
F. Kazemzadeh, _The Struggle for Transcaucasia_ (New York, 1951),
p. 69.
_This three-day massacre by Armenians is recorded in history as
the 'March Events' and thousands of Muslims, old people, women
and children lost their lives._
W. E. D. Allen and Paul Muratoff, _Caucasian Battlefields_ Cambridge
University Press, 1953, p. 481.
_As the Armenians found support among the Reds (who regarded the
Tartars as a counter-revolutionary elements) the fighting soon
became a massacre of the Tartar population._
G. Bronsart, _Deutsche Allgemeine Zeitung_ July 24, 1921
_Since all the Moslems capable of bearing arms were in the
Muslim Army, it was easy to organize a terrible massacre by
the Armenians against defenseless people, because the Armenians
were not only attacking the sides and rear of the Eastern Army
paralyzed at the front by the Russians, but were attacking the
Moslem folk in the region as well._
John Dewey, _The Turkish Tragedy_ The New Republic, Volume 40,
November 12, 1928, pp. 268-269.
_Armenians boasted of having raised an army of one hundred and
fifty thousand men to fight a civil war, and that they burned
at least a hundred Muslim villages and exterminated their
population._
G. Hamelin, _Les Armees Francaises au Levant_ February 2, 1919,
Vol. 1, p. 122.
_Armenians burned and destroyed many Muslim villages in their
advance and practically all Muslim villages in their retreat
from Marash._
Prof F. Hertas, _Van Muslim Holocaust Museum: Muslim and Western
Documents on the Genocide Committed by the Armenians
Against the Muslims_ 1984.
p. 121.
_In his speech given at the Sivas Congress, Mustafa Kemal once again
drew a picture of the country under occupation:
In the East, the Armenians are making preparations for advancing to
the River Halys (Kizilirmak), and have already started a policy of
massacring the Moslem population._
p. 122.
_The situation of the southern provinces of Turkey after the signing
of the Mudros Armistice is described by Ataturk in his speech:
The Armenians in the south, armed by foreign troops and encouraged
by the protection they enjoyed, molested the Mohammedans of their
district. They pursued a relentless policy of murder and extinction
everywhere. The Armenians had completely destroyed an old Mohammedan
town like Maras by their artillery and machine-gun fire.
They killed thousands of innocent and defenceless Muslim women and
children. The Armenians were the instigators of the atrocities, which
were unique in history.
Threatened by the bayonets of the Armenians, who were armed to the teeth,
the Mohammedans in the Vilayet of Adana were at that time in danger of
being annihilated. While this policy of oppression and annihilation was
carried on against the Mohammedans by the Armenians..._
Basar, H. K. (ed.); _Muslim and Russian Documents on the Genocide
Committed by the Armenians Against the Muslims_
1981.
p. 22.
_The atrocities and massacres which have been committed for a long time
against the Muslim population within the Armenian Republic have been
confirmed with very accurate information, and the observations made by
Rawlinson, the British representative in Erzurum, have confirmed that
these atrocities are being committed by the Armenians. The United States
delegation of General Harbord has seen the thousands of refugees who came
to take refuge with Kazim Karabekir's soldiers, hungry and miserable,
their children and wives, their properties destroyed, and the delegation
was a witness to the cruelties. Many Muslim villages have been destroyed
by the soldiers of Armenian troops armed with cannons and machine guns
before the eyes of Karabekir's troops and the people. When it was hoped
that this operation would end, unfortunately since the beginning of
February the cruelties inflicted on the Muslim population of the region
of Shuraghel, Akpazar, Zarshad, and Childir have increased. According
to documented information, 28 Muslim villages have been destroyed in the
aforementioned region, more than 60,000 people have been slaughtered,
many possessions and livestock have been seized, young Muslim women
have been taken to Kars and Gumru, thousands of women and children who
were able to flee their villages were beaten, raped and massacred in the
mountains, and this aggression against the properties, lives, chastity
and honour of the Muslims continued. It was the responsibility of the
Armenian Government that the cruelties and massacres be stopped in order
to alleviate the tensions of Muslim public opinion due to the atrocities
committed by the Armenians, that the possessions taken from the Muslims
be returned and that indemnities be paid, that the properties, lives,
and honour of the Muslims be protected._
Avetis Aharonian, _From Sardarapat to Sevres and Lausanne_
Armenian Review, Vol. 16, No. 3-63, Autumn,
Sep. 1963, pp. 47-57.
p. 52 (second paragraph).
_Your three Armenian chiefs, Dro, Hamazasp and Kulkhandanian are
the ringleaders of the bands which have destroyed Muslim villages
and have staged massacres in Zangezour, Surmali, Etchmiadzin, and
Zangibasar. This is intolerable. Look - and here he pointed to a
file of official documents on the table - look at this, here in
December are the reports of the last few months concerning ruined
Muslim villages which my representative Wardrop has sent me. The
official Tartar communique speaks of the destruction of 300 villages
by the Armenians._
p. 54 (fifth paragraph).
_Yes, of course. I repeat, until this massacre of the Muslim is
stopped and the three chiefs are not removed from your military
leadership I hardly think we can supply you arms and ammunition._
_It is the armed bands led by Dro, Hamazasp and Kulkhandanian who
during the past months have raided and destroyed many Muslim villages
in the regions of Surmali, Etchmiadzin, Zangezour, and Zangibasar.
There are official charges of massacres by the Armenians._
Doc. Dr. Azmi Suslu, _Russian View on the Genocide Committed by
the Armenians Against the Muslims_ 1987,
pp. 45-53.
_The killings were organized by the doctors and the employers, and
the act of killing was committed solely by the Armenian Army. More
than eighty thousand unarmed and defenceless Muslims have been massacred
in Erzincan and Erzurum. Large holes were dug and the defenceless
Muslims were slaughtered like animals next to the holes. Later, the
murdered Muslims were thrown into the holes. The Armenian who stood
near the hole would say when the hole was filled with the corpses:
'Seventy dead bodies, well, this hole can take ten more.' Thus ten
more Muslims would be cut into pieces, thrown into the hole, and when
the hole was full it would be covered over with soil.
The Armenians responsible for the act of murdering would frequently
fill a house with eighty Muslims, and cut their heads off one by one.
Following the Erzincan massacre, the Armenians began to withdraw
towards Erzurum... The Armenian Army among those who withdrew to
Erzurum from Erzincan raided the Moslem villages on the road, and
destroyed the entire population, together with the villages._
A. Rawlinson, _Adventures in the Near East_
Jonathan Cape, 30 Bedford Square, London, 1934
(First published 1923) (287 pages).
_Memoirs of a British officer who witnessed the
Armenian genocide of 2.5 million Muslim people_
p. 184 (second paragraph)
_I had received further very definite information of horrors
that had been committed by the Armenian soldiery in Kars Plain,
and as I had been able to judge of their want of discipline by
their treatment of my own detached parties, I had wired to Tiflis
from Zivin that 'in the interests of humanity the Armenians should
not be left in independent command of the Moslem population, as,
their troops being without discipline and not under effective control,
atrocities were constantly being committed, for which we should with
justice eventually be held to be morally responsible'_
A. Rawlinson, _Adventures in the Near East_
Jonathan Cape, 30 Bedford Square, London, 1934
(First published 1923) (287 pages).
_Memoirs of a British officer who witnessed the
Armenian genocide of 2.5 million Muslim people_
Erenkoy
p. 178 (first paragraph)
_In those Moslem villages in the plain below which had been
searched for arms by the Armenians everything had been taken
under the cloak of such search, and not only had many Moslems
been killed by the Armenian Army, but horrible tortures had
been inflicted in the endeavour to obtain information as to
where valuables had been hidden, of which the Armenians were
aware of the existence, although they had been unable to find
them._
p. 177 (third paragraph)
_Armenian troops have pillaged and destroyed all the Moslem
villages in the plain. Caravans of refugees were in the meanwhile
constantly arriving from the plain, from which the whole Moslem
population was fleeing with as much of their personal property as
they could transport, seeking to obtain security and protection._
A. Rawlinson, _Adventures in the Near East_
Jonathan Cape, 30 Bedford Square, London, 1934
(First published 1923) (287 pages).
_Memoirs of a British officer who witnessed the
Armenian genocide of 2.5 million Muslim people_
p. 175 (first paragraph)
_The arrival of this British brigade was followed by the
announcement that Kars Province had been allotted by the
Supreme Council of the Allies to the Armenians, and that
announcement having been made, the British troops were then
completely withdrawn, and Armenian occupation commenced. Hence
all the trouble; for the Armenians at once commenced the wholesale
robbery and persecution of the Muslem population on the pretext
that it was necessary forcibly to deprive them of their arms.
In the portion of the province which lies in the plains they
were able to carry out their purpose, and the manner in which
this was done will be referred to in due course._
p. 181 (first paragraph)
_The Armenians from the plain were attacking the Kurdish people
with artillery, with a large force in support._
Robert Dunn, _World Alive, A Personal Story_
Crown Publishers, Inc., New York (1952).
_Memoirs of an American officer who witnessed the
Armenian genocide of 2.5 million Muslim people_
p. 361 (seventh paragraph) and p. 362 (first paragraph).
'The most of the Muslims slaughtered by the Armenians are
inside houses. Come you and look.'
'No, dammit! My stomach isn't-'
_We were under those trees by the mosque, in an open space.
'I don't believe you,' I said, but followed to a nail-studded
door. The man pushed it ajar, then spurred away, leaving me
to check on the corpse. I thought I should, this charge was
so constant, so gritted my teeth and went inside.
The place was cool but reeked of sodden ashes, and was dark
at first, for its stone walls had only window slits. Rags
strewed the mud floor around an iron tripod over embers that
vented their smoke through roof beams black with soot. All
looked bare and empty, but in an inner room flies buzzed. As
the door swung shut behind me I saw they came from a man's
body lying face up, naked but for its grimy turban. He was
about fifty years old by what was left of his face - a rifle
butt had bashed an eye. The one left slanted, as with Tartars
rather than with Kurds. Any uniform once on him was gone, so
I'd no proof which he was, and quickly went out, gagging at
the mess of his slashed genitals._
Robert Dunn, _World Alive, A Personal Story_
Crown Publishers, Inc., New York (1952).
_Memoirs of an American officer who witnessed the
Armenian genocide of 2.5 million Muslim people_
p. 363 (first paragraph).
'How many Muslim people lived there?'
'Oh, about eight hundred.' He yawned.
'Did you see any Muslim officers?'
'No, sir. I was in at dawn. All were Tartar civilians in mufti.'
_The lieutenant dozed off, then I, but in the small hours a
voice woke me - Dro's [Armenian architect of the genocide
of 2.5 million Muslim people - ye]. He stood in the starlight
bawling out an officer. Anyone keelhauled so long and furiously
I'd never heard. Then abruptly Dro broke into laughter, quick
and simple as child's. Both were a cover for his sense of guilt,
I thought, or hoped. For somehow, despite my boast of irreligion,
Christian Armenian massacring 'infidels' was more horrible than
the reverse would have been.
From daybreak on, Armenian villagers poured in from miles around.
The Armenian women plundered happily, chattering like ravens as
they picked over the carcass of Djul. They hauled out every hovel's
chattels, the last scrap of food or cloth, and staggered away, packing
pots, saddlebags, looms, even spinning-wheels.
'Thank you for a lot, Dro,' I said to him back in camp. 'But now I
must leave.' We shook hands, the captain said 'A bientot, mon camarade.'
And for hours the old Molokan scout and I plodded north across parching
plains. Like Lot's wife I looked back once to see smoke bathing all,
doubtless in a sack of other Moslem villages by the Armenian Army up to
the line of snow that was Iran.'_
Robert Dunn, _World Alive, A Personal Story_
Crown Publishers, Inc., New York (1952).
_Memoirs of an American officer who witnessed the
Armenian genocide of 2.5 million Muslim people_
p. 354.
_At morning tea, Dro [Armenian architect of the genocide of 2.5
million Muslim people - ye] and his officers spread out a map
of this whole high region called the Karabakh. Deep in tactics,
Armenians spoke Russian, but I got their contempt for Allied
'neutral' zones and their distrust of promises made by tribal
chiefs. A campaign shaped; more raids on Moslem villages._
p. 358.
"It will be three hours to take," Dro told me. We'd close in on
three sides.
"The men on foot will not shoot, but use only the bayonets,"
Merrimanov said, jabbing a rifle in dumbshow.
"That is for morale," Dro put in. "We must keep the Moslems in
terror."
"Soldiers or civilians?" I asked.
"There is no difference," said Dro. "All are armed, in uniform
or not."
"But the women and children?"
"Will fly with the others as best they may."
Robert Dunn, _World Alive, A Personal Story_
Crown Publishers, Inc., New York (1952).
_Memoirs of an American officer who witnessed the
Armenian genocide of 2.5 million Muslim people_
p. 360.
_The ridges circled a wide expanse, its floors still. Hundreds
of feet down, the fog held, solid as cotton flock. 'Djul lies
under that,' said Dro [Armenian architect of the genocide of
2.5 million Muslim people - ye], pointing. 'Our men also attack
Muslims from the other sides.'
Then, 'Whee-ee!' - his whistle lined up all at the rock edge.
Bayonets clicked upon carbines. Over plunged Archo, his black
haunches rippling; then followed the staff, the horde - nose
to tail, bellies taking the spur. Armenia in action seemed more
like a pageant than war, even though I heard our Utica brass roar.
As I watched from the height, it took ages for Djul to show clear.
A tsing of machine-gun fire took over from the thumping batteries;
cattle lowed, dogs barked, invisible, while I ate a hunk of cheese
and drank from a snow puddle. Mist at last folded upward as men
shouted, at first heard faintly. Then came a shrill wailing.
Now among the cloud-streaks rose darker wisps - smoke. Red glimmered
about house walls of stone or wattle, into dry weeds on roofs. A
mosque stood in clump of trees, thick and green. Through crooked
alleys on fire, horsemen were galloping after figures both mounted
and on foot.
'Tartarski!' shouted the Armenian gunner by me. Others pantomimed
them in escape over the rocks, while one twisted a bronze shell-nose,
loaded, and yanked breech-cord, firing again and again. Shots wasted,
I thought, when by afternoon I looked in vain for fallen branch or
Muslim body. But these shots and the white bursts of shrapnel in the
gullies drowned the women's cries.
At length all shooting petered out. I got on my horse and rode down
toward Djul. It burned still but little flame showed now. The way was
steep and tough, through dense scrub. Finally on flatter ground I came
out suddenly, through alders, on smoldering houses. Across trampled
wheat my brothers-in-arms were leading off animals, several calves
and a lamb._
Robert Dunn, _World Alive, A Personal Story_
Crown Publishers, Inc., New York (1952).
_Memoirs of an American officer who witnessed the
Armenian genocide of 2.5 million Muslim people_
p. 361 (fourth paragraph).
_Armenian corpses came next, the first a pretty Muslim child with
straight black hair, large eyes. She looked about twelve years old.
She lay in some stubble where meal lay scattered from the sack
she'd been toting. The bayonet had gone through her back, I judged,
for blood around was scant. Between the breasts one clot, too small
for a bullet wound, crusted her homespun dress.
The next was a Muslim boy of ten or less, in rawhide jacket and
knee-pants. He lay face down in the path by several huts. One arm
reached out to the pewter bowl he'd carried, now upset upon its
dough. Steel had jabbed just below his neck, into the spine.
There were Muslim grownups, too, I saw as I led the sorrel around.
Djul was empty of the living till I looked up to see beside me Dro's
[Armenian architect of the genocide of 2.5 million Muslim people - ye]
German-speaking colonel. He said all Muslims who had not escaped were
dead._
Robert Dunn, _World Alive, A Personal Story_
Crown Publishers, Inc., New York (1952).
_Memoirs of an American officer who witnessed the
Armenian genocide of 2.5 million Muslim people_
p. 358.
_More stories of Armenian murdering Muslims when the czarist troops
fled north. My Armenian hosts told me of their duty here: to keep
tabs on brigands, Muslim troop shifts, hidden arms, spies - Christian,
Red or Tartar - coming in from Transcaucasus. Then they spoke of the
hell that would break loose if Versailles were to put, as threatened,
the Muslim vilayets of Turkey under the control of Erevan.
Muslims under Christian rule? His lips smacked in irony under the
droopy red moustache. That's bloodshed - just Smyrna over again on
a bigger scale._
_The Armenians did exterminate the entire Muslim population
of Russian Armenia as Muslims were considered inferior to
the Armenians by the prominent leaders of the Dashnaks._
_Mikael Kaprilian_ 1919
Sahak Melkonian, _Preserving the Armenian Purity_ 1920
_In Soviet Armenia today there no longer exists a single Turkish
soul. It is in our power to tear away the veil of illusion that
some of us create for ourselves. It certainly is possible to severe
the artificial life-support system of an imagined 'ethnic purity'
that some of us falsely trust as the only structure that can support
their heart beats in this alien land._
During the First World War and the ensuing years - 1914-1920,
the Armenians through a premeditated and systematic genocide,
tried to complete its centuries-old policy of annihilation against
the Turks and Kurds by savagely murdering 2.5 million Muslims and
deporting the rest from their 1,000 year homeland.
The attempt at genocide is justly regarded as the first instance
of Genocide in the 20th Century acted upon an entire people.
This event is incontrovertibly proven by historians, government
and international political leaders, such as U.S. Ambassador Mark
Bristol, William Langer, Ambassador Layard, James Barton, Stanford
Shaw, Arthur Chester, John Dewey, Robert Dunn, Papazian, Nalbandian,
Ohanus Appressian, Jorge Blanco Villalta, General Nikolayef, General
Bolkovitinof, General Prjevalski, General Odiselidze, Meguerditche,
Kazimir, Motayef, Twerdokhlebof, General Hamelin, Rawlinson, Avetis
Aharonian, Dr. Stephan Eshnanie, Varandian, General Bronsart, Arfa,
Dr. Hamlin, Boghos Nubar, Sarkis Atamian, Katchaznouni, Rachel
Bortnick, Halide Edip, McCarthy, W. B. Allen, Paul Muratoff and many
others.
J. C. Hurewitz, Professor of Government Emeritus, Former Director of
the Middle East Institute (1971-1984), Columbia University.
Bernard Lewis, Cleveland E. Dodge Professor of Near Eastern History,
Princeton University.
Halil Inalcik, University Professor of Ottoman History & Member of
the American Academy of Arts & Sciences, University of Chicago.
Peter Golden, Professor of History, Rutgers University, Newark.
Stanford Shaw, Professor of History, University of California at
Los Angeles.
Thomas Naff, Professor of History & Director, Middle East Research
Institute, University of Pennsylvania.
Ronald Jennings, Associate Professor of History & Asian Studies,
University of Illinois.
Howard Reed, Professor of History, University of Connecticut.
Dankwart Rustow, Distinguished University Professor of Political
Science, City University Graduate School, New York.
John Woods, Associate Professor of Middle Eastern History,
University of Chicago.
John Masson Smith, Jr., Professor of History, University of
California at Berkeley.
Alan Fisher, Professor of History, Michigan State University.
Avigdor Levy, Professor of History, Brandeis University.
Andreas G. E. Bodrogligetti, Professor of History, University of California
at Los Angeles.
Kathleen Burrill, Associate Professor of Turkish Studies, Columbia
University.
Roderic Davison, Professor of History, George Washington University.
Walter Denny, Professor of History, University of Massachusetts.
Caesar Farah, Professor of History, University of Minnesota.
Tom Goodrich, Professor of History, Indiana University of Pennsylvania.
Tibor Halasi-Kun, Professor Emeritus of Turkish Studies, Columbia University.
Justin McCarthy, Professor of History, University of Louisville.
Jon Mandaville, Professor of History, Portland State University (Oregon).
Robert Olson, Professor of History, University of Kentucky.
Madeline Zilfi, Professor of History, University of Maryland.
James Stewart-Robinson, Professor of Turkish Studies, University of Michigan.
_long list deleted_
Erenkoy
pp. 451-452.
Picture: Heap of massacred Muslim women and children by Armenians.
"Mus multecilerinden 18 yasinda olan Abdurrahman oglu Mehmet Resul'un
Hani Muduru onunde verdigi yeminli ifadesi:
Betlevo koyu yakinlarinda 1915 ocaginin yarisina dogru yapilan savasta
yaralandim. Hasta olan uc arkadasimla ilerlemekte olan orduyu takip
edemedik ve dusman tarafindan esir edildik. Ilk once er Huseyin'in
gozlerini oydular ve ayaga kalk Osmanli askerleri geliyorlar mi diye
bak dediler. Sonra kucuk bir vadiye goturup orada kursuna dizdiler. Bu
cinayetten sonra ismini bilmedigim bir arkadasima saldirdilar. Korkunc
iskence ettikten sonra onu da oldurduler. Ucuncu arkadasimin sirasi
geldi. Onun tenasul uzuvlarini kesip agzina soktular ve sonra da
bogdular. Cellatlar arasinda uc Ermeniyi tanidim. Mus'un Jakar
mahallesinden Kes oglu Aram, Bagdasar oglu Aleksan ve Mus'un Bas
mahallesinden Avukat Hrant'in oglu Hrant diger bes tanesi Rus
askerleriydi. Bu haydutlar bana yaklasarak butun muslumanlarin sonunun
bu oldugunu soylediler ve tufegin demir ucunu yaktiklari ateste
kizartip vucuduma 24 yerinden sapladilar. Bu iskencelerden beni
kurtarmak isteyen bir Rus askeri geldiginde aci cigliklar atiyordum.
Bu asker beni bir kenara cekerek isminin Abdulmalik olup Kazanli bir
musluman aileden geldigini ve kurtarabilecegini soyledi. Sekiz cellat
ben ve 100 kisilik bir grup bize iltihak etti. Til koyu istikametine
gidiyorduk. Yolda 800 civarinda bir musluman topluluguna rastladik.
Ermeniler istisnasiz hepsini oldurup imha ettiler. Aksama dogru Til
koyune geldik. Ermeniler yanlarinda Karamese koyu yagmasi esnasinda
kacirdiklari iki musluman kadini getirmislerdi. Bu bahis konusu olan
iki kadin hamile idi. Ermeni ve Ruslarin ortasina getirildiler. Iki
asker ve iki Ermeni, kadinlarin tasidiklari cocuklarin cinsi uzerine
iki mecidiyelik bahse girismislerdi. Bunun uzerine kadinlarin
karinlarini bicakla deldiler, birisinden bir oglan cikarttilar,
digerinin cenini ise cesitli tahminlere yol acti. Bes dakika sonra 4
Rus ve 6 Ermeni, 6 genc musluman kiz getirdiler. Ermenilerin arasinda,
Mus'un Ziyaret koyunden olan birini tanidim. Kizlar siraya
sokulmuslardi. Bir Rus subayi geldi, aralarindan birini secerek
goturdu...[a disgusting story - ye]. Til koyunde uc gece gecirdim.
Hernekadar yaralarimdan pek aci cekiyor isem de musluman Rus
askerlerinin yardimiyla kurtulabildim. Safaga dogru Kazan koyune hakim
sinirlara geldim. Koyun icinden aci cigliklar atiliyordu. Gun
agardiginda Ermenilerin koy sakinlerini oldurduklerini ve diri diri
yaktiklarini gordum. Dehsetten tas kesilerek gece oluncaya kadar
yerimi terk etmedim. Karanlikta yola koyuldum ve her cesit zorluk
ve tehlikelerle karsilasilarak Hani'ye vardim."
A. Alper Gazigiray, _Muslim Archival Material on the Genocide
Perpetrated by the Armenians Against the Muslim people in Eastern
Anatolia,_ Gozen Kitabevi, Istanbul, 1982.
pp. 450-451.
Picture: Heaped corpses of slaughtered Muslim children by Armenians.
"Akcan (Mus) Nehiyesine bagli Avran koyunden gecen Osmanli Askerlerine
Ermeniler tarafindan yapilan zulum:
Eski Akcam Nahiyesi Muduru simdi Bervari Kazasinin Kaymakam Vekili olan
Ahmet Nurettin Efendinin yeminli ifadesi:
Hukumet tarafindan genel seferberlik ilan edildi ve bir ay sonra Akcan
nahiyesine mudur olarak atandim. Mus Mutasarrifi olan Servet bey hic
bir irk ve din farki gozetmeksizin sancagin tum halkina karsi durust ve
koruyucu idi. Halbuki Mus Ermenileri imkan oldugu zaman vergilerde ve
askerlere alinmada hukumete zorluklar cikartiyorlardi. Tasnaklarin ve
Ermeni papazlarin kiskirtici hareketlerini acikca goruyorduk. Ve
cevrilen dolap duzenlerin zararlarini arada sirada hissediyorduk.
Fesatci tesirlerin telkini ile Ermeni koylerinin bir cogu vahset
hareketlerinde bulunmakta gecikmediler. Ermeniler su ve ekmek
bahanesiyle gonullu asker ve Milisleri evlerine davet ediyorlar ve
orada bu kisileri kapali ve tenha yerlere goturup boguyorlar, gozlerini
oyup baslarini kopariyorlardi. Ozellikle askerlerin tufeklerine sahip
olmak icin hic bir zorluktan cekinmiyorlardi. Ermenilerin mezalimi
ozellikle 300 evlik olan Avran koyunde yapilmisti. Iste bu koyde 15
temmuz 1915 tarihinde actigimiz sorusturma sonucunda asagidaki bilgiler
meydana cikti.
Tasnak komitesi uyesi Ermeniye ait olan evin civarinda agzi cok dar
olan kapatilmis bir kuyu bulduk. Ortuyu kaldirdigimizda igrenc ve
pis kokular etrafa dagildi. Asagiya indirdigim bir adam kuyunun
insan cesetleriyle dolu oldugunu bildirdi. Kimliklerini tesbit etmek
uzere onlari yukari yukari cikarttik. Kurbanlarin sayisi 19 olup masum
ve zavalli askerlerden baska bir sey degildi. Cesetlerin durumu Osmanli
hukumetinin 600 senelik samimi himayesine mahzar olmus bu Ermenilerin
isledikleri korkunc cinayetlerin ancak uc dor gunluk bir mazisi
oldugunu gosteriyordu. Ermeniler tarafindan alcakca bogulan bu
askerlerin cesetlerini gomdukten sonra terk ettik."
A. Alper Gazigiray, _Muslim Archival Material on the Genocide
Perpetrated by the Armenians Against the Muslim people in Eastern
Anatolia,_ Gozen Kitabevi, Istanbul, 1982.
pp. 448-450.
Picture: Corpses of Muslim women and children slaughtered by Armenians.
"Sahitlerin Ifadeleriyle Ermeni Mezalimi - Bitlis Vilayeti:
Memleketi Bitlis olan ve simdi Mardin'in Nayalu koyune goc eden Suleyman
Oglu Ali'nin yeminli ifadesi:
Ruslarin Bitlis'i isgal etmek istediklerini erkenden ogrenen Van ve Bitlis
Ermenileri Muslumanlara saldirdilar. Kacmalarini onlemek icin yollarini
kapatarak Musluman halkini merhametsizce katlettiler. Bu arada 11 yasindaki
kayinbiraderim Ali, annesi Rabia, Azaranli Seyh Ahmet, karisi ve bir
hizmetcisi, komsularimiz Ahmet oglu ve kucuk yasta oglu, seksenlik
Hasan oglu Izzet, izinde olan iki asker kendilerini parca parca yapan
bu barbarlarin vahsetinin kurbani oldular.
17 kisiden mutesekkil ailemizden yalniz bes kisi, o da buyuk zorlukla
katliamdan kurtulabildiler. Yegenimin bir cogu havaya atilmis duserken
de bu haydut Ermeniler tarafindan ikiye kesilmistir.
Genc kizlari igfal etmisler sonrada hepsini kanlar icinde sokaklarda
suruklemislerdir. Toplam olarak; Muslumanlar uzerine, Ermeniler duyulmamis,
tasvir edilmez cinayetler islemislerdir.
Memleketi Bitlis olan ve simdi Mardin'in Nayali koyunde multeci olarak
bulunan Kamil oglu Abdulrazzak'in yeminli ifadesi:
Ilimizin isgalinde bir kardesimin ve amcamin aileleri ile birlikte erken
saatlerde Araplar koprusune gidiyorduk. Ermeniler yolumuzu kestiler ve
bizim onumuzde, kardesim Cerkes donlu oglu Abdulnadir ve kiz kardesim
Emine'yi oldurduler.
Biz kactik ve 18 kisiden yalniz 5 kisi kendini kurtarabilip Mardin'e
gelebildi. Gruptan geri kalanlar kandi cocuklarim dahil olmak uzere
esir olarak goturulduler veya oldurulduler.
Nazim kazasina bagli Kolpic Koyu ve bu koyden Ebubekir ve Abdulkerim'in
yeminli ifadesi:
Koyumuzun ilerisinde bulunan bir yerde bulunuyordum...Bu kritik anda
koyumuze iki ayri noktadan baskin yaparak gelen Rus ve cok miktarda
Ermeniden kurulu dusman ordusu halki oldurmeye ve evleri yakmaya
basladi. Icimizden bazilarinin bulundugu 150 kisi kilictan gecirildi.
Biz kacarken 'Bidet,' Orans koyunden 'Arsak,' Herit Ermeni koyunden
'Sandir' ve Sube koyunden 'Krizikio' adli Ermeniler arkamizdan; Islam
dinimize kufur ve Peygamberimize hakaret kusuyorlardi.
Rus ve Ermeniler o derece iskence yapmislardi ki donusumuzde hic kimse
goz yasini tutamadi. Birbirine baglanmis ciplak kadin ve erkekler
agaclara asilmislardi. Baslari koparilmis, memeleri kesilmis kadinlarin
goguslerinde iki parcaya bolunmus cocuklar vardi. Genc guzel kizlar
goturulmuslerdi. Haydutlar kendilerine yarayacak mobilyalari almislar,
digerlerini de yakmislardir."
A. Alper Gazigiray, _Muslim Archival Material on the Genocide
Perpetrated by the Armenians Against the Muslim people in Eastern
Anatolia,_ Gozen Kitabevi, Istanbul, 1982.
pp. 396-398.
Picture: Armenians burning a Mosque.
"Buradan Peklic koyune gidilerek bu bedbaht koyun de Ermeni mezaliminin
en igrenc sahnelerine maruz kaldigi gorulmustur. Mal, mulk yagma
edilmis, cami tahrip ve kirletilmistir. Burada da ahaliden gorulebilen
birkac kisi yemin ederek gorduklerini soylemislerdir: Dusmanla
birlikte koye giren Ermeniler, Karacayli Emrah ile Mahmut'un yolda
rastladiklari biri alti, digeri yedi yaslarinda iki masum cocugunu
almislar, kilise kapisinin esigine goturerek orada koyun bogazlar gibi
kestikten sonra kesilmis baslarini kilise tarafina govdelerini de
kapinin onune birakmislar ve ihtiyarlarin Fettah oglu Ahmet'i, Mirin
Efendiyi, Ahmet oglu Halim'i Akva oglu Kaya onbasiyi, Ciddi Mehmet'i,
Muhiy oglu Melayi, Mehmed Cavusu ve Mahdumu Osman'i, Sed Agayi, Hafiz
oglu Veli'yi, Dellal oglu Hayri'yi ve yedi yasindaki oglu Hakki'yi,
Mustafa oglu Zihni'yi, Yusuf oglu Mevlud'u, dort yasindaki kardesi
Eyup'u, kadinlardan Altin sacli Mevlud'un validesini, kizlardan Seyh
Besir'in 15 yasindaki kizini, Mustafa'nin alti yasindaki kizi Fatma'yi,
Karsli Omer'in sekiz yasindaki kizi Lefce'yi, dort yasindaki diger
kizi Ermer'i pek feci bir surette katl ve sehit ettiler. Pekvisli
Ahmet Bey hanesine iltica eden ve gizlenen 150 kadinla Ahmet beyin
ailesine ve Mamahatunlu Mustafa Efendinin biri 12, digeri 14 yasindaki
kerimesinin, 500 mutecaviz Ermeni tarafindan hucum edilerek kiz ve
kadinlarini namuslari kirletilmis ve bunlardan kendini teslim etmeyen
dort kadinla Izzet hatun adinda 30 yasinda bir kadinin bogazlanarak
kuyuya atildiklarini Molla Sukru ile arkadaslari buyuk bir teessur
icinde anlatmislardir. Heyetimiz koye vardigi zaman anlatilan senaata
kurban olan Izzet Hatun'un kesilmis basi henuz yerde idi. 150 kadinin
ve bir yasindaki kiz cocugun parmagindaki yuzugu almak icin parmaklarini
kesmislerdir. Bu koyun ihtiyarlarindan Dursun aga adindaki zat boynuna
taktiklari bir iple kuyubasina goturulerek bas asagi asarak
oldureceklerini soyleyip para istemisler, mevcut parasini verdigi halde
bir cok iskenceden sonra boynunun arkasindan kasatura ile kesmeye
baslamislar, nihayet her nedense terkederek gitmislerdir. Bu adam
boynundaki buyuk ve muthis yara ile bitap bir halde idi. Bu koyde
yapilan mezalimin haddi hesabi yoktu.
Erzurum - ilica - Askale - Tercan yolu uzerinde ve yakininda 11 koy
ile Tercan kasabasinda Ermenilerin yaptiklari buyuk iskence zulum
ve katliamlar boylece ozetlenmistir. Bu koylerden baska daha
yuzlerce koy ozellikle Antranik pasa diye anilan ve aslen Tercan'in
Koturlu koyunden bir Ermeni olan Aleksan oglu Antranik komutasindaki
hain ve insani duygulardan mahrum, kana susamis, birer hayvan gibi
vahsi cetelerin yaptiklari facialari, mubalagaya kapilmadan arzederim
ki, ancak %1 dir. Bu koyler tamamen harap olmus, butun kadinlarin
irzina gecilmis, cogu kesilmis ve onemli bir kismi da Erzurum'a
sevkedilmek bahanesiyle yollarda katlolunmustur. Bu alcak ve zalim
insan kilikli hayvanlar Turklerden intikam almak bahanesiyle ve
tamamen zevk icin yapmislardir. Eger yanlarinda Ruslar olmasa idi,
belki daha muthisini yapacaklardi. Uzun zamanlar bu tahrip edilen
koyler issiz ve virane olarak kalmistir."
Neside Kerem Demir, _The Crime of Genocide Committed by the
Armenians Against the Muslim People,_ Hulbe Basim ve Yayin
T.A.S., Ankara, 1979.
pp. 158-159.
Picture: Corpses of Muslim women and children slaughtered by Armenians
in the snow.
"San'atkarlar yaratilis itibariyle daha hassastirlar. Zulum ve iskence,
onlara daha cok tesir eder. Ermenilerin Turklere yapmis olduklari
mezalim, bilhassa halk sairlerimizde derin izler birakmistir. Insanin
maruz kalmaya degil, seyretmeye tahammul edemeyecegi Ermeniler
tarafindan cizilen bu korkunc manzaralar, 'Asik Kahraman'i tabir-i
hakikisiyle inletmistir. Zira, Asik Kahraman, bu vahsetin icinden,
kaderin siyirip cikardigi, bir kazazededir. Bu kazazede'nin basindan
gecen hadiseyi ve mezalimi tablolastiran siirini beraberce okuyalim.
Bu siir, Ermeni vahsetinin, dunya edebiyatina gecmis tek kanli levhasi
degildir. Ama biz sadece bir tane ile iktifa ediyoruz.
Ermeniler, 12 Mart'da ordumuzun Erzurum'a girisinden sonra da kanli ve
cok alcakca usullerle Turkler'i katliama giristiler. Yalniz, Sarikamis,
Arpacayi arasinda bulunan elliiki Turk koyunde, silahsiz erkekleri ve
coluk cocugu, cami, merek, ashane, kom ve ahir gibi buyuk yapilarla,
evlere doldurup, bir yandan gazyagi ve benzinle atese vererek, bir
yandan da benzeri kesici nesnelerle, yaylim atesleriyle pek vahsice
kirdilar. Altiyuzyetmisbir nufuslu (Kars'in dogu yakasindaki) Kale
koyunden (Derecik'ten) kurtulabilen 11 kisiden birisi olan Asik
Kahraman (1863 - 1944), bu koyle ucyuzaltmis kisinin bir yere
doldurularak, 15 Nisan'dan sonra nasil kirildigini, su acikli
destaninda anmaktadir. 11 Haziran 1939'da bu agiti yazdirmak icin
tekrarliyan rahmetli halk sairimiz, bunu soylerken gozlerinden
dolu gibi yas dokmus ve siirinin sonuna gelmeden, bayilivermisti."
Kalekoy (Derecik) Kirginina Agit:
1. Ey agalar nasil diyem derdimiz:
Vardi zulum sonu arsa dayandi.
Ermeni, Islami kirdi, taladi,
Mazlumlar amani, Arsa dayandi.
2. Kalo'nun koyunu basti, ceng acti
Mitralyoz, tufeklen od, ates sacti
Ana: Evlat atti, dag tasa kacti
Sabiler sivani, Arsa dayandi.
3. Mevla'nin takdiri eristi basa
Yuzcevirdi, bakmaz kardas kardasa
Ucyuz altmis cani yakti atasa
Koptu Nuh Tufani, Arsa dayandi.
4. Bir cenaze gordum: Kan olmus yuzu,
Patlamis kenara sicramis gozu,
Ucyuz altmis canin sonmemis kozu,
Yanan can dumani, Arsa dayandi.
5. Bir yigit vurulmus: Parmaklar, kamis,
Kacarken Kafir'e yolu ugramis,
Kafir tutmus: Tike, tike dogramis,
Hancer, kilic yani, Arsa dayandi.
6. Bir yigidi: Vurmus, yolda koymuslar,
Can teslim etmeden, deri soymuslar,
Cep - cep etmis, yanlarini oymuslar,
Et cepte, figani Arsa dayandi.
7. Bir gelini gordum: Ayaga kalkmis,
Sandim ki, cani var, yuzune bakmis,
Kafir mismar ile direge cakmis;
Mismar, civi unu, Arsa dayandi.
8. Bir hamile kadin: Davranmis kaca,
Ermeni, eylemis hep parca parca
Kilic ile vurmus, bolunmus kalca,
Aman kizil - kani, Arsa dayandi.
9. Cocugu, karnindan cikartmis, bakar;
Can teslim etmeden, sunguye takar,
Bebegin figani, dagi - tasi yakar,
Dagin, tasin sani, Arsa dayandi.
10. Altiyuz altmis can, batti kirildi,
Cogu yandi, geri kalan vuruldu,
Bu koyun defteri artik duruldu,
Halinin yamani, Arsa dayandi.
11. Tanri, Ermeni'ye vermis firsati,
Kesti kokumuzu, kirar milleti,
Ruz-i Kiyamet'e kaldi muddeti,
Intikamin gunu, Arsa dayandi.
12. Kahraman, kan aglar, bu serim duman,
Catti bu zamana, ol Ahir - zaman,
Islam'a olsun Ahrette iman,
Kafirler isyani, Arsa dayandi.[88]
[88] Edebiyatimizda Kars, II. Kitap, s. 123, 1958, Istanbul.
Neside Kerem Demir, _The Crime of Genocide Committed by the
Armenians Against the Muslim People,_ Hulbe Basim ve Yayin
T.A.S., Ankara, 1979.
pp. 171-172.
Picture: 1915 - Slaughtered Muslim women and children by the Armenians
in Subatan village.
"Harbin ilk zamanlarinda Beyezid'in Ermeni cete reislerinden Sevrun,
eski Erzurum Meb'usu Pastirmaciyan Karakin idaresinde bulunan 1200
mevcudlu hunhar Ermeni cetesi musluman koylerine musallat olarak
vahsi hayvanlara rahmet okutacak canavarlikla onlerine gelen masum
musluman ahaliyi parcaliyor, mal ve esyayi yagma ediyorlardi. Yaramis,
Agca, Viran koyleri ahalisi ekseriyetle oldurulduler. Bunlarin kanli
elinden yarali ve hasta askerler de kurtulamiyordu. Lize mevkiinde
ordumuz tarafindan mecburen terk edilen yarali askerleri, sonralari
Ruslar cekildigi zaman, Ermeni cetesi tarafindan sehit edilmis olarak
bulduk. Ruslarin yardimci oldugu Ermeni cetesi, Malazgird'de elliuc
koyu yikmis ve yirmibinden asagi olmayan nufusun buyuk bir kismini
oldurmustur. Bunlarin coguna sahid olduk...
Mus'un sukutunda Ermeni komitecileri kana susamis canavar gibi etrafa
saldirarak ele gecirdikleri muslumanlari feci bir surette
oldurmuslerdir. Kadinlarin irzlarina tecavuz ediyor, ihtiyarlari
ve gencleri olduruyorlardi. Esraftan Haci Murad ve Resid, Guneyli
Haci Mehmed ve Cafer, Timor, Abdah, Yusuf, Mehmed Han ve Nadir Agalar
Ermeniler tarafindan Maktel adi verilen yere goturulerek koyun
bogazlar gibi kesilmislerdir. Ermeniler Varto kazasinin Ayaz nahiyesi
dahilinde Cebran asiretinden Cundi Aga'ya aid onbes koy halkini
Murad nehrinin Gol Hazal denilen koluna atmislar ve ayaklarina agir
nalin cakmislardir.
Mugullu yoluyla dahile cekilen musluman ahaliye Ermeni komitecileri
hucum ederek acize, cocuk ve kadinlarin ihtiyarlarini Seyhulkarib
denilen Tekkeye doldurup yakmislar ve genc kadinlarin memelerini
keserek asmislar, annesi yarali bir cocugun sokakta annesinin
kesilmis memesini agzina vererek emzirmislerdir. Ulemadan Seyh
Abdulgaffar Efendi'nin kafasinin derisi soyularak sehid edilmistir.
Sertabib Mustafa Bey, onbes yirmi Ermeni komitecisinin binden fazla
coluk cocugu sarkilarla ve onde kadinlar raks etmekte olduklari halde
goturduklerini ve Garp koprusunden Dikili Tas'a kadar binlerce
cenaze gordugunu ve bunlarin buyuk bir kisminin pek feci bir tarzda
bogazlandigini yeminle ifade eylemistir."
Veysel Eroglu, _The Armenian Genocide of the Muslim People in Eastern
Anatolia,_ Sebil Yayinevi, Istanbul, 1978.
pp. 191-194.
Picture: Corpses of Muslim children massacred by the Armenians.
"Ruslara rehberlik eden Ermeniler ugradiklari koylerdeki erkekleri
tamamen oldurup kadinlara da tecavuz ile cesitli alcakliklar
yaptilar. Cocuklarla ihtiyarlar bile bunlarin vahsi zulumlerinden
kurtulamadi. Bir takim ihtiyar kadinlari bir eve doldurarak atese
verdiler. Hamile kadinlarin cocuklarini sungulere takarak teshir
ettiler. Bu duruma, hicrete mecbur olan ve her bir suretle hayatini
kurtaran yuzlerce kisi sahiddir. Bes yuzu gecen ihtiyar erkeklerle
pek cok kadin ve cocukdan meydana gelen bir kafile Ermeni ve Ruslar
tarafindan Arpaderesi namindaki mevkie goturulerek orada kursun ve
kilicla yok edildiler...
Askerimiz cekildikten sonra Ermeni ceteleri Rus ordusunun onculeri
olarak kasabaya girdiler. Cocuklara varincaya kadar ellerine gecen
erkekleri olduruyor, kadinlarin irzlarina geciyor ve masum bakire
kizlara acikca ve alcakca tecavuz ediyorlardi.
Serhad sehri guzel Erzurum'umuzu da Ermeniler kana boyadilar. En buyuk
mezalim burada islenmisti.
Erzurum katliamini Antranik ve doktor Azarif tertib ve icra etmislerdir.
Bu icraata 10 Subat'da baslaniyor. Erzurum'un butun mahalleleri
devriyelerle ihata olunuyor. Carsi ve pazarda toplasan cocuk, ihtiyar,
kadin, erkek yol yaptirmak bahanesiyle toplaniyor. Toplanan bu
masumlar kitlesi kafile, kafile Kars kapisi civarina yigiliyor.
Uzerleri iyice aranip para ve kiymetli esyalari tamamiyle gasbedildikten
sonra acilan cukurlara dolduruluyor. Sonra Erzurum garnizonlarinda
bulunan bilumum Ermeni askerleri, evlere taarruza basliyorlar. Yagma,
katliam, irza tecavuz gibi senaat butun siddetiyle tatbik ediliyor.
Bu mezalim Turk Ordusunun Erzurum'u kurtarma tarihi olan 24 Subat'a
kadar devam ediyor. Erzurum'a giren Turk kitalari sehir dahilinde
ikibinyuzyirmiyedi maktul cenazesini defnetmis, ayrica Kars kapisi
haricinde ikiyuz elli ceset bulmustur. Muslumanlar, Ermeniler
tarafindan balta, sungu ve mermi vasitasiyle oldurulmus, cigerleri
cikarilmak ve gozlerine kazik sokulmak suretiyle sehid edilmisti
(Mezalim Dosyasi). Hulasa olarak sadece Erzurum icinde katliama
maruz kalan ihtiyar, kadin, cocuk, ve erkegin yekunu sekiz bini
buluyordu. Erzurum'un Turk pazari kamilen yagma edilmis ve yakilmistir.
Turk kitalarinin Erzurum'u seri bir sekilde kurtarmalari, geri kalan
musluman ahalinin katliamini engelliyor. Erzurum'da Rus Kale Topcu
Ikinci Alayi Kumandani, Yarbay Twerde Khlebok kendi elyazisiyla
yazdigi hatiratinda Ermenilerin isledikleri katliami tamamen teyid
etmektedir.
Rus ihtilali basindan itibaren Osmanli kitalarinin Erzurum'u kurtardiklari
12 Mart tarihine kadar Ermenilerin Erzurum sehri ve havalisindeki Turk
ahalisine karsi tavir ve hareketlerine dair yazilan bu hatirat [37]
Onbirinci Rus Erzurum Kale Topcu Alayinin tarihcesine ilave olarak
yazilmis ise de basli basina bir vesika mahiyetini haizdir. Iste bu
hatirattan alinan kisimlari dikkatlerinize sunuyoruz: [more horror
stories on the Armenian genocide of 2.5 million Muslim people - uta]"
[37] Bu vesikanin asli, Harp Tarihi Dosyasi Arsivi - Dolap: 123, Goz: 10,
Dosya: 2-5'dedir.
Veysel Eroglu, _The Armenian Genocide of the Muslim People in Eastern
Anatolia,_ Sebil Yayinevi, Istanbul, 1978.
pp. 181-186.
Picture: Heap of Muslim women and children massacred by the Armenians.
"Erzurum vilayetine bagli kaza ve koylerde Ermenilerin isledikleri
mezalim tuyler urperticidir. Bu korkunc zulumleri dikkatlerinize
sunuyoruz:
Tahribat ve mezalim hakkinda tahkikat icrasi icin memur edilen
komisyonun raporlari da Ermenilerin zulumleri hakkinda bize kafi
derecede fikir verecektir.
'24 Mayis sali gunu buyucek bir koy olan Kurukol'a ulastik. Bu koy
Ermeniler tarafindan yapilan tahribattan dolayi elim bir harabe
manzarasina ducar olmustu. Perisan enkaz, yapilan alcakliklarin sanki
lisan-i hal ile sessiz birer sahidi idi. Bu issiz harabeyi buyuk bir
teessurle konusturmaya calisirken Mizkik koyunden ailesiyle birlikte
hicret etmekte bulunan tahminen 65 yaslarinda Kaya Mehmet naminda bir
ihtiyara tesaduf ettik. Bu zavalli bedbaht adam Mizkik Koyu'nde Ermeni
ceteleri tarafindan irtikap olunan alcakliklara bir daha hedef olmamak
icin Erzincan'a hicret ediyordu. Sahid oldugu facialar hakkinda
malumat taleb ettik, yemin ederek asagidakileri soyledi:
`Kadin ve cocuklari taarruzdan kurtarmak icin binalarda, yerin
altindaki anbarlarda erzak kuyularinda saklamaga mecbur olduk.
Ermeniler kadinlari, bulamayinca busbutun hiddetlenerek ele
gecirdikleri erkekleri oldurup yok ediyorlardi. Mizkik Koyu'nde
Ismail adindaki kardesimi kursunla kafatasini parcalamak suretiyle
sehid ettiler. 60 yaslarinda Kurt Ahmet adinda bir ihtiyarin sungu
ile gobeginden, Esat adindaki oglunun da kilinc darbeleriyle
boynundan vurularak vahsiyane bir tarzda sehid edildigini...
Ermenilerin, ayirarak Pasinler'e gonderdikleri ondort gencden ucu
kacarak Goktas'a avdet ettiler. Bunlarin sozlerine gore iclerinden
iki genc sungu ile parcalanmistir. Bu koyde sekiz dokuz yaslarinda
kizlar da dahil oldugu halde butun kadinlarin namuslari cignendi.
Koyde yirmiyedi ev tamamiyle yikilmistir. Goktas ahalisi bu
alcakliklari yapan Ermenilerin ekserisinin Tercanli olduklarini
gormusler, bunlari sahsen tanidiklarini ifade etmislerdir. Antranik
Pasa adiyla anilan Goturlu Aleksanoglu Antranik, Cilinizli Nisan,
Armenak Taku'nun oglu Olos, Masikoglu Sehak ve arkadaslari oldugunu
tanimislardir. Ermeniler koyun camiini de tahrib ettikten sonra
ahira cevirerek kirletmisler ve boylece Islam'in mukaddesatina
tecavuzden geri durmamislardir. 7 - 9 yaslari arasinda uc kiz
cocugunun bikirleri izale edilmistir.
Buradan Alirik koyune hareket ettik. Bu koy de zulum ve tecavuzlerin
en muthisine sahne oldugunu acikca gosteriyordu. Koyun esraflarindan
Mehmed Bey bazi koylulerle birlikte yemin ederek gorduklerini buyuk
bir teessurle hikaye ettiler.'"
Veysel Eroglu, _The Armenian Genocide of the Muslim People in Eastern
Anatolia,_ Sebil Yayinevi, Istanbul, 1978.
pp. 177-180.
"Enva-i mezalim ve iskenceyle hapishaneye sokuluyor carsi ve pazarda
bulunmiyanlarin zorla evlerine giriliyor. Para, kiymetli esya ve
ziynetleri alindiktan sonra bir kismi kapilari onunde feci bir
suretde katlediliyor. Diger kismi ise cesitli zulumlerle hapishaneye
sevkolunuyor. Bu hale Subatin ucuncu sabahina kadar devam ediliyor.
3 Subat sabahi musluman kadinlarinin da toplanmasina baslaniyor ve
topladiklarindan ondort kadinla iki kizi, Salih Hamdi Efendi'nin
ticarethanesi karsisindaki Haydar Bey'in ahsap oteline dolduruyorlar.
Alaturka saat ucte mevkuflarin katli su surette icra edliyor. Ise
evvela Salih Hamdi Efendi'nin ticarethanesinde mevkuf bulunanlardan
baslaniyor. Salih Hamdi Efendi'nin girildigi zaman sagdan birinci
odaya yirmiuc, soldan birinci odaya dort, ikinci odaya altmis,
ucuncu odaya elli ve boslugun nihayetindeki odalardan soldakine
kirksekiz ve sagdakine sekiz ki, cem'an yuzdoksanuc can yerlestiriliyor.
Evvela soldan birinci odada bulunan belediye reisi Hafiz Suleyman
Efendi ile Kormas koylu Ahmed ve Abrasli Irfan ve Vagandali Piri odadan
cikariliyor. Ellerinde bulunan sungu, balta ve demirle pek feci bir
surette olduruluyor, muteakiben sirasiyla diger odalara gecerek ayni
suretle mahpuslar katle baslaniyor. Gozleri onunde feci bir surette
ve vahsice arkadaslarinin katledildigini goren diger mahpuslar canhiras
sadalarla bagiriyorlar ve kendilerine sira gelince mumkun mertebe
nefislerini mudafaaya calisiyorlarsa da butun mudafaa imkanlarindan
mahrum bulunmalari yuzunden iskence ve vahsetin en buyugune maruz
kalarak bin turlu mezalim arasinda terk-i hayat ediyorlar. Yalniz
ikinci odada bulunan altmis kisiden Murad, Cavus, Sevki, Sarac, Hafiz
ve Zahid mahallesinden Beydioglu Sadik (Ermeniler firar ettikten sonra
yangin icinden cikarilmislar ve halen hayattadirlar) oluler arasina
sokularak kendilerine olu vaziyeti vererek hayatlarini kurtarabiliyorlar.
Sungu ve baltayla icra edilen fecaat kafi gelmiyormus gibi cenazeler
uzerine gazyagi dokulmek ve ateslenmek suretiyle arada sikisik kalanlardan
olmemis olanlar dahi yakiliyor.
Buralarda fecaat sahneleri kapandiktan sonra boslugun nihayetindeki
ve soldaki odada bulunan kirksekiz kisiye sira geliyor...[a disgusting
story and a picture - uta]
Bu feci sahne devam etmekteyken Haydar Bey'in oteline doldurulan ondort
kadini bastan nihayete kadar soyduktan sonra ciplak bir halde Haydar
Bey'in oteline bitisik Cavusoglu'nun oteline nakil ve birer birer
katlettikten sonra oteli yakiyorlar."
Veysel Eroglu, _The Armenian Genocide of the Muslim People in Eastern
Anatolia,_ Sebil Yayinevi, Istanbul, 1978.
pp. 173-175.
"Karargahini Erzurum'un onuc kilometre batisinda Alaca Koyu'ne nakleden
Osmanli Birinci Kafkas Kolordusu kumandani mezkur koyde Ermeni mezalimine
dair gorduklerini su suretle naklediyor:
a) Odalara doldurularak yakmaga tesebbus ettikleri musluman ahaliden
ikiyuzyetmissekizi sehid edilmis, kirkikisi'nden cogu agir olmak
uzere yarali olarak bulundu.
b) Ikiyuz yetmis sekiz sehid, kumes icerisinde, irzlarina tecavuzden sonra
oldurulerek, cigerleri duvarlara asilmis genc kizlar, karinlari desilmis
hamile kadinlar, beyinleri akitilmis veyahud uzerlerine benzin dokulerek
yakilmis cocuk ve erkekler mevcuttu.
c) Ilica kasabasi da ayni akibete ugruyor. Burada yuzlerce masum mahv u
perisan oluyor.
Yek digeri takip eden bu facialar sistematik bir tarzda cereyan ediyor.
Hasseten Cenes, Alaca, Ilica mezalimleri bilhassa tuyler urpetici ve
dehset verici bir tarzda islenmistir. Kadinlari duvara civilemek, o
kalbleri cikarilarak duvarlara asmak, hamile kadinlarin cocuklari
cikarilarak kucaklarina verilmek gibi hunharca mezalim islenmistir.
Ahmed Refik ise bu bolgedeki mezalimi soyle anlatiyor:
'Ilica, muntazam ve buyukce bir koy. Erzurum ovasi buradan basliyor.
Ovanin solunda kalan koyler kamilen harab, Ilica'nin hamamlari
muntazam ve latif. Suyu o derece sicak degil. Ermeniler en ziyade
burada mezalim yapmislar. Coluk cocuk, kadin erkek, koyun ahalisinden
bir cogunu oldurmusler. Koyde tek bir kimse dahi kalmamis.'[35]
Ermeni mezalimi sonunda Dogu Anadolu'da harabeden, yikilmis, sondurulmus
ocaklardan baska birsey kalmamisti. Ahmed Refik'in musahadelerini
dikkatlerinize sunuyoruz.
'Harabeler ortasindayim. Etrafimda turbeler yikilmis, camilerin
cinilerine varincaya kadar sokulmus. Evlerin yanmis direklerinden el'an
bogucu bir duman cikiyor. Ellerimi surdugum tuz cuvallari bile hala
sicak...Burada benzin alevleri icinde bogucu dumanlar, kizgin atesler
arasinda feryatlari ayyuka cikarak can veren Turkler, Ermeni zulmuyle
perisan olmuslar, yanik direkler altinda yatiyorlar. Trabzon'dan
Erzurum'a kadar harabeden baska birsey gorulmuyor. Hicbir koyde, hicbir
kulubede dahi canli bir mahluka tesaduf edilmiyor. Ermeni zulmunu simdi
aclik takib etmis.'
Ardasa'dan Erzincan'a kadar butun yol b
Erenkoy
pp. 390-392.
"24 Mayis sali gunu buyucek bir koy olan Kurukale'ye gidildikte bu koyun
Ermeniler tarafindan tamamen harab edildigi gorulmustur. Koyde hic kimse
yoktur. Bu koyden ayrilip baska bir koye giderken Mijik koyunden ailesi
ile birlikte goc eden 65 yaslarinda Kaya Mehmet adinda bir ihtiyara
rastlanildi. Bu zavalli bahtsiz adam, Ermenilerin zulmunden kurtulmak
icin Erzincan'a goc ediyordu. Bu adam, vilayet hukuk musaviri Kemal, ve
Ilica nahiye Muduru Sukru Beylerin onunde yemin ederek sunlari soylemistir:
'Kadinlari ve cocuklari taarruzdan korumak icin evlerin altindaki zahire
kuyularina saklamaya mecbur olduk. Ermeniler, kadinlarimizi bulamayinca
busbutun kudurarak oradaki butun erkekleri oldurduler. Yine Geyik
koyunde Ismail adindaki kardesim kursunla kafatasini parcalamak
suretiyle sehit edildi.
60 yaslarinda Kurk Ahmet namindaki bir ihtiyarin sungu ile gobeginden
ve Esad adindaki oglunun da kilic darbeleriyle boynundan vurularak
vahsi bir tarzda sehit edildigi gibi Sabit oglu Medet ve Ali oglu Aga
ile Dursun oglu Husnu de her turlu iskence ve eziyetlerle oldurulduler.
Bunlari bizzat gordum. Bu feci olaylar, gozumun onunden hic gitmiyor.
Hele Dursun oglunun haremi Izzet Hatunu oyle bir vaziyette katlettiler
ki, bunlari unutmak kabil degildir. Bicare kadinin bacak ve budunu
adeta kiyma dograrcasina sungu ile parcaladilar.'
Bu zavalli adam bunlari anlatirken mutemadiyen agliyor, gordugu korkunc
facialarin etkisiyle heyecandan tir tir titriyordu.
Ayni gun aksama dogru Terpusak koyune gittik. 70 lik uc dort ihtiyarla
iskence yapilmis bir genc kiz bir kac kadindan baska kimse olmayan bu
koyde, ihtiyarlardan Sadir oglu Musa ile Muhtar Huseyin, Suleyman oglu
Hurrem yemin ettikten sonra sunlari anlattilar:
'Ruslardan once Terpusak koyune gelen Ermeni cetelerinin yaptiklari
yagma ve gasp ile mezalim soylemekle bitmeyecek derecede coktur.
Ermeniler genc erkekleri birer birer sokaklarda kudurmus kopekler
gibi katl ve itlafa basladilar. Kadinlara fiili seni (gayri mesru
bir sekilde irza tecavuz) icrasindan sonra turlu hakaret ederek
onlari oldurduler...'"
A. Alper Gazigiray, _Muslim Archival Material on the Genocide
Perpetrated by the Armenians Against the Muslim people in Eastern
Anatolia,_ Gozen Kitabevi, Istanbul, 1982.
pp. 388-390.
"Ermeniler Bayburt'u terkettikleri gun kasabanin en guzel konak ve
magazalarindan 400 kadarini yakmislardir. 28 Subat gunu ekmeklik un
dagitilacagini ilan ederek bir kisim kadin, erkek ve cocuklari
evvelce mahpushane yapilan buyuk bir binaya sokarak o binayi vahsiyane
bir sekilde yakmislar ve ayni zamanda sokaklarda tesaduf ettikleri
cocuk, kadin ve erkekleri sungu ve kursunla sehit etmek suretiyle
her turlu fenaligi yapmislardir. Ermeniler bu zavalli insanlari
yakarken bunlarin imdat diye bagirislari ve inlemelerini bir musiki
nagmesi gibi karsilayarak eglenceler yapmislar ve bununla da
yetinmeyerek binanin icine bacalarindan iceriye el bombasi ve
pencerelerden de kursunlar yagdirmislardir. Insanlik aleminin simdiye
kadar sahit olmadigi ve tarihin hic bir devirde kaydetmedigi bir
sekilde yakilan ve katledilen gorulmemis iskencelerle yok edilen bu
Turk halkinin mevcudu 500 den fazla idi. Bunlardan baska kasaba icinde
300 kadar yarali kadin, erkek ve cocugun askeri doktorlarimiz
tarafindan tedavisine ve yaralarinin sarilmasina baslanmistir.
Vehip Pasa da bas komutanlik vekaletine bir rapor vermistir: Ayni
dosyanin 51 nci bolgesini teskil eden bu rapor soyledir:
'Bugun Erzincan'a geldim. Cardakli bogazindan Erzincan'a kadar olan
bahcelerin agaclari kesilmis, koylerden bir kisi dahi saglam
kalmamistir. Erzincan'da isledikleri facialari insanlik tarihi
bugune kadar kaydetmemistir. Uc gunden beri Ermeniler tarafindan
oldurulerek meydanda kalan cenazeler toplattirilmaktadir. Sehit
edilen gunahsiz halk arasinda memeden kesilmemis cocuklar, 90 yasini
ikmal etmis ihtiyarlar, parcalanmis kadinlar vardir. Bunlarin
fotograflari aldirilmaktadir [pictures are available in the
book if you have the stomach - uta]. Vakalar hakkinda tutanaklar
tutulacaktir.'
9 uncu Ordu Komutani Yakup Sevki Pasa da Erivan bolgesi hakkinda su
raporu gondermisti:
'Ermeni kit'alarinin Erivan guney dogusundaki demir yolunun hemen
dogusundaki bolgede bulunan Vedi ve Serdar abad kasabalari civarina
gelerek islam halkini katlettikleri ve esraftan Ali zade Demir
Beyle, Fethi Bey zade Bedri Bey'lerin de bu maktuller arasinda
bulunduklari bu arada bir cok halki katleyledikleri, bunlardan
600 kadarinin Aras nehrinin dogusuna kacarak perisan bir halde
Dogu Beyazid'a geldikleri ve Ermenilerin islam halki keserek
ilerledikleri bildirilmistir. Nahcivan bolgesinde de bir cok
islam halk Ermeniler tarafindan sehit edilmistir. Nahcivan'in
kuzeyinde Elmali denilen yerde 683 ve buna yakin diger bir koyde
de 516 kisi katledilmistir. Bu esnada genc ve guzel kadinlari da
ayirarak bunlarin irzlarina gectikleri ve diger bir kisim kadin
kafilesini de evlere doldurark yaktiklari ogrenilmistir.'
Birinci Dunya Harbinde yapilan Ermeni mezalimi daha ziyade Erzurum,
Van, Bitlis, Diyarbakir, Trabzon vilayetlerinde yapildigindan, bu
vilayetlerdeki mezalimden toplanabilenleri asagiya cikarilmistir.
Bunlar yapilan mezalimin pek azini teskil eder. Hepsini toplamak
cok zamana ihtiyac gosterdigi gibi, ciltler ve kitaplar dolduracagindan
bu sebeble yalniz bir fikir vermek uzere bu kadarcikla yetinilmistir."
Veysel Eroglu, _The Armenian Genocide of the Muslim People in
Eastern Anatolia,_ Sebil Yayinevi, Istanbul, 1978.
pp. 169-170.
"Ermeni Mezalimi'nin Erzincan'daki canli sahidi Haci Dursun'un bu
kitabin yazarina aglayarak anlattiklarini arzediyorum:
'Erzincan'da ahaliyi kisim kisim toplamaya Ruslar'in cekilmesinden
bir ay sonra basladilar. Once imamlari ve muhtarlari Devekuru'ya
yol yapma bahanesiyle topladilar. Fakat bunlari Kilise Meydanindaki
Kiliseye goturup aksam oldugunda onar kisilik kafileler halinde kuyu
baslarina getirip davar keser gibi kestiler. Sonra diger halki da
emsaliyle toplayip ayni hunharca mezalimi irtikap ettiler.
Kactiklari gunu Tilhas'li Mahmud Efendi'nin coluk ve cocugunu
dogradilar. Sipyatagi'li Hoca'nin dort oglunu kursunladilar. Jandarma
Yuzbasisi Memduh ve hemsiresini Tasci Mahallesindeki evlerinde
katlettiler.
Isledikleri katliam korkunctur. Mesela Kanligol Mahallesinde bir adami
oldurdukten sonra duvar kenarina dayamislar, gogsunu yarip cigerlerini
ve girtlagini cikarip girtlagini agzina, cigerlerini de kucagina
vermislerdi.
Osmanli Ordusu sehri kurtardiginda Kilise Meydaninin civarindaki
harabe ve arsalarin Ermeniler tarafindan katledilen muslumanlarin
cesetleriyle tiklim tiklim dolu oldugunu gorduk. Erzincan ahalisinin
takriben %90'ini coluk, cocuk, kadin ve ihtiyar demeden katlettiler.
%10'u ancak mucize eseri kurtulabildi.'
Dursun Dayi'nin kalbi yaraliydi. Aradan gecen yarim asirdan fazla zaman
bu yarayi kapatamamisti.
Mamahatun istikametinde ilerliyen Turk kitalari, Mamahatun (Tercan)
kasabasinin kamilen denecek derecede yakilarak kasabanin yerle bir
oldugunu ve ahalisinin evlere doldurularak yakmak, sungu ve kursunla
oldurulmek suretiyle imha edilmis oldugunu gormustur. Mamahatun
kasabasi icinde ve civarinda sungu ve kursunla sehid edilip Turk
kitalari tarafindan toplattirilan masumlarin adedi ucyuzu buluyordu."
Dr. Kirzioglu M. Fahrettin, _The Armenian Genocide of the Muslim
People in Kars Province,_ Kardes Matbaasi, Ankara, 1970.
pp. 83-86.
Kazim Karabekir:
"Gectigim yerlerde hayat kalmadigini goruyordum. Karargah'imin bulundugu
Alacakoyu'nde, cenazeler, insanin aklini oynatacak bir halde idi: Butun
cocuklar sungulenmis; yaslilar ve kadinlar samanliklara doldurulup
yakilmis, gencler baltalarla parcalanmisti; civilere asilmis ciger ve
kalpler goruluyordu.
Erzurum'da oyle acikli manzaralar gorduk ki, insani insanliktan
igrendiriyordu: Halk, gozyaslari ile suraya - buraya kosup kimi oglunu,
kimi babasini, kimi karisini sungulenmis veya yakilmis buluyor, saclarini
yoluyordu. Bircok sokaklarda, hic hayat gorunmuyordu: Yerlerde cocuk, kadin,
yasli kanlar icinde yatiyordu. Yalniz son gece (11-12 Mart) uc bin Musluman
kestiklerini, iyice ogunerek Ermeniler, Ruslara'a da anlatmislar; bunu,
Yarbay Twerdo-Khlebof Rapor'unda ('Hatira'sinda) nesretmistir. Demiryolu
Istasyonu'nda, sanki bir mezarlik olulerini disariya firlatmisti. Cenazeler
arasindan gecerek, bu kiyiciliklari gorduk. Hele (Resul Beyin Konagi basta
olmak uzere), icerisine insanlari doldurup birlikte yaktiklari karsilikli
binalar, insani titretiyordu.
8 Nisan'da Kagizman'i isgal eden bir mufrezemiz, Islam ahaliden dortyuz
kisinin sokaklarda olduruldugunu; bu cinayetin yapilmasi icin: 'Artik
kardes olduk, silahlarinizi veriniz; birbirimize bir kotuluk yapmiyacagiz'
diyerek, silahlari topladiktan sonra kirgin'a baslamis olduklarini
bildirdi (bu arada, 1893 dogumlu ve essiz degerde cok kudretli bir sair
olan Kagizmanli Hafiz Receb Hifzi de, Carsi Mahallesindeki Mahbushane'ye
doldurulup sungu ile sehid edilen yuzlerce Turk arasinda, iki sungu
yarasi basindan ve bir sungu yarasi da gogsunden alarak olum halindeyken
dize cokup - 'Allah, Allah' diye zikretmekte iken 8 Nisan'da gorulup
bir eve goturulmusse de, ertesi gun gece vakti sehid olmustur)."
A. Alper Gazigiray, _Muslim Archival Material on the Genocide
Perpetrated by the Armenians Against the Muslim people in Eastern
Anatolia,_ Gozen Kitabevi, Istanbul, 1982.
pp. 386-388.
"Ermeniler tarafindan tamamen tahrip edilen kasabada hic bir bina yoktur.
Ruslarin cephane anbari yaptiklari cami dinamitle ucurulmustur. Mamahatun
[Tercan - uta] turbesi yakilmistir. Kasaba bir harabedir. Her taraf musluman
oluleriyle doludur. Yalniz kasabada Ermenilerin oldurdukleri coluk cocugun
miktari yediyuz'e yukselmistir. Cesetlerin bazilarini hendek kenarlarinda
kollari bagli olarak birakmislardir. Bir coklarinin baslari balta ile
kesilmistir.
Halk Ruslardan hicbir fenalik gormemistir. Butun cinayetler ve tahribat
Ruslarin cekilmesinden sonra Ermeniler tarafindan yapilmistir. Ruslarin
biraktiklari erzak ve malzeme, kasabayi mudafaa eden Ermeniler tarafindan
yakilmistir.
Erzurum mezalimi hakkinda verilen diger bir raporda, yuz kadar konagin
icine ikiser ucer yuz kisilik insanlarin doldurularak konaklarin atese
verildigi bildirilmektedir. Bu hesaba gore Yalniz Erzurum'da Ermenilerin
bu surette yaktiklari insanlarin miktari 10 bin'den fazla oldugu
anlasilmaktadir. Bunlardan baska Erzurum sokaklarinda ve evlerde toplanan
cenazelerin miktarinin dort binden fazla oldugu anlasilmistir.
Bu raporlarin kapsadigi bilgiler, yabanci gazete muhabirleri tarafindan
aynen gorulmustur.
Dogu grubu komutani Yakup Sevki Pasa tarafindan 29 Mayis tarihinde Ermeni
mezalimi hakkinda bas komutanlik vekaletine yazilan yazilar soyledir:
'Rus ordusunun terhisinden sonra cephenin Ermeniler tarafindan isgaline
baslandigi gunden itibaren bugune kadar Ermeniler islam koylerini yakip
yikmislar ve katliam etmislerdir. Erivan, Kars, Kagizman, Sarikamis kismen
Ardahan bolgesindeki butun koylerdeki halkin cogunun katledildigi ve
koylerin tahrip olundugu ogrenilmistir. Ermenilerin simdiye kadar
yaptiklari
mezalim ve facialar sayilmayacak kadar coktur. Leninakan'da 500 araba ile
baska yere nakledilmekte olan 3000 kadar islam ahaliyi Ermeniler yollarda
tamamen katletmislerdir.
Arpacay kazasinin Melik koyu bolgesindeki koyler tamamen yakilmis ve
ahalisi katliam edilmistir. Suragel nahiyesi bolgesinde 67 koy halki
Ermeniler tarafindan tamamen katledilmistir.
Kagizman dogusundaki Kulp ve civarinda 1000 kisi iki makineli tufek iki
top'tan murekkep bir Ermeni kuvveti Kolp ve Erivan bolgesindeki koyler
halkini kamilen oldurmustur.'"
A. Alper Gazigiray, _Muslim Archival Material on the Genocide
Perpetrated by the Armenians Against the Muslim people in Eastern
Anatolia,_ Gozen Kitabevi, Istanbul, 1982.
pp. 384-385.
"Ayni dosyada, Ermeni cetelerinden ortalama 2000 kisilik bir kuvvettin
Akcaabad kasabasini isgal ederek kasabanin muslumanlarini vahsiyane
bir surette katliam ettikleri yazilidir. Bu caniler, musluman kadinlarin
baslarini kesmisler ve erkeklerle kadinlarin parcalanan cesetlerini
ve muhtelif azalarini pek cirkin bir surette teshir eylemislerdir.
17 sayili dosyada da, 1000 kadar Ermeni eskiyasinin alti adet toplariyla
birlikte 2 Mayis tarihinde Yenikoy yolu uzerinden Dogu'ya cekilirken
yol uzerinde rastladiklari 300 kadar silahsiz ve mudafaasiz Turk halkini
katliam ettikleri ve yaktiklari yazilmistir.
Ermeniler Turk ordusunun baskisi altinda Erzurum'dan cekildikten sonra
burada oldurulmus bir cok halka tesaduf edilmistir. Bu zavallilar
gorulmemis olarak yollarin uzerinde yatmakta idiler. Sokaklardan, evlerden,
dukkanlardan, bahcelerden ve ahirlardan toplattirilarak 312 ceset
defnedilmistir. Bunlarin icinde yirmisi kadin, 71'i on yasina kadar
muhtelif cocuk, 19 beyaz sakalli ihtiyarlar vardi, geri kalan 202 kisi
genc erkeklerden ibaretti.
Rus yuzbasisi Kazimir ifadesinde yalniz kendisinin, 800 Turkun sehit
edildigini gozleriyle gormus oldugunu bildirmistir. Bu rapor da Vehib
Pasa tarafindan Baskomutanliga bildirilmistir.
Erzincan, Bayburt, Torul, Gumushane, Vakfikebir, Akcaabad sehir ve
kasabalari bir katliam sahnesi halini almistir. Erzincan ve Bayburt'ta
bulunan Ermeni elebasilarindan Murat ve Arsak adindaki caniler bu son
gunlerde binlerce islam halki evlere doldurark yakmislar ve bir coklarini
da feci bir sekilde sungulemislerdir.
Ermeniler, Sarikamis yolunda calisan 500 Turk askerini katletmislerdir.
Ahil Kelek'te Ermeniler 10,000 muslumani katletmislerdir.
Erivan vilayetinde 40 koy yakilmistir. Ermenilerin Rusya dahilindeki
Azerbaycan muslumanlarini da katliam ettikleri alinan son haberlerden
ogrenilmistir.
Ermeniler Ilica nahiyesinde de cok katliam yapmislar, 365 erkek sungulenmis,
kuyulardan da 15 kadin cesedinin cikarildigi ve sokaklarda analari, babalari
oldurulmus kimsesiz cocuklara rastlandigi Baskomutanlik vekaletine raporla
bildirilmistir."
A. Alper Gazigiray, _Muslim Archival Material on the Genocide
Perpetrated by the Armenians Against the Muslim people in Eastern
Anatolia,_ Gozen Kitabevi, Istanbul, 1982.
pp. 382-383.
"3 uncu Ordu Komutani Vehib Pasa da verdigi raporda, Rus uniformali
Ermeni cetelerinin Turk koylerini bastigi ve kadinlarin irzlarina
gectikleri ve katliam yaptiklari bildirilmisti. Yine Vehip Pasa'nin
bildirdigine gore; Torol'un uc kilometre kadar guneyindeki bir Turk
koyunu Ermeni ceteleri basarak evleri yakmislar ve halki da katliam
etmislerdir. Ayrica Erzincan'in 18 kilometre guney dogusunda Zeggic
koyunun de evleri yakilmis ve halki katledilmistir.
Ucuncu Ordu Komutanligina yazilan bir raporda da; 'Rus ordusunun geri
alinan kisimlari yerine gecen Ermenilerin Islam halka mezalim ve
iskence yaptiklari ve bir cok yerlerde katliamlara basladiklari
ogrenilmistir.' denilmektedir.
Ermeniler Erzincan'da halkin evlerinden disari cikmalarini ve bir
koyden diger bir koye gitmelerini siddetle yasaklamislar ve suclu
diye evlerden topladiklari Turkleri suraya buraya goturup oldurdukleri
cesetleri ozellikle kiliseler civarinda actiklari cukurlara gomdukleri
anlasilmistir.
Bu hal gosteriyor ki Ermeniler Turk varligini yok etmege azmetmis
bulunmaktadirlar.
Kars ve havalisinden cekilen Ermenilerin Gumru ve Revan (Erivan)
taraflarindaki Islam halkin mezalim ve iskencelerle olduruldugu Birinci
Kolordu Komutanligindan bildirilmistir.
Yakup Sevki Pasa yazdigi raporda; 'Ermeniler kamilen kaciyorlar,
biraktiklari bolgede hayat kalmamistir. Bunlarin simdiye kadar doktugu
kan, yaktigi can ve sondurdugu ocaklar oyle buyuk bir dereceye
varmistir ki, tarife imkan yoktur.' diyor.
...Gece sabaha karsi Vahit Beyin konaginda 1500'e yakin musluman
toplanmisti. Ermeniler konagin her tarafini atese verdiler. Yanmamak
icin kendilerini pencereden atmak isteyenler konagi abluka etmis
bulunan Ermenilerin kursun ve sungusu ile olduruldu (13 Nisan).
Bugunlerde Ermeniler, Kal'a kislasina ve uc buyuk konaga kadin, cocuk
doldurarak yaktilar ve sehir icinde 1000 kadar ev tahrib edilmis ve
yakilmistir. Ermeniler, halki imha etmek icin toplarken evlere
kapilari kirarak zorla girmisler ve kadinlarin namuslarina tecavuz
etmislerdir.
Ucuncu Ordu Komutani Vehib Mehmet Pasa tarafindan Baskomutanliga
yazilan bu raporda Ermenilerin Turkleri tamamen imha etmege karar
vermis olduklari da bildirilmektedir."
A. Alper Gazigiray, _Muslim Archival Material on the Genocide
Perpetrated by the Armenians Against the Muslim people in Eastern
Anatolia,_ Gozen Kitabevi, Istanbul, 1982.
pp. 267-268.
"Van'dan sonra ilk isyan Sebinkarahisar'da basladi. 1915 senesi 5
haziran da, Sivasli Murat [Hamparsum Boyaciyan - uta] denilen bir
caninin emri altinda 500 kadar cete Sebinkarahisari basti. Burasi o
zaman en onemli askeri bir yerdi. Erzurum bolgesinde Rus ordusu ile
savasan Osmanli Ordularinin butun ikmal araclari buradan gecmekte idi.
Ermeniler boyle onemli bir yer isgal ettikleri takdirde Turk
ordularinin ikmali yapilamayacak ve Rus Ordularinin harekati
kolaylasacakti. Sebinkarahisarin islam mahalleleri tamamen atese
verildi. Her rastlanan Turk iskence ile olduruldu.
Mus'da ayni sekilde isyan devam ediyordu. Sason daglari Ermeni
eskiyalariyla dolu idi. Bu isyanlari, ordunun arkasini vurmak ve Rus
Ordusunun ilerlemesini saglamak icin Ermenilerin pasa dedikleri Rupen
idare ediyordu. Bundan baska, Rus Ordularinin Rus - Turk sinirindan
gecerek Turk topraklarina girdikleri bu safhada Rus Ordusu icinde
bulunan Ermeni gonullu alaylariyla Rus Ordularinin isgali altina giren
Ermeni koylerindeki silahli halk, Turk koylerine hucum ederek bu
koyleri yakip yikmislar ve Turk halkini hatira gelmeyen mezalim ve
iskence ile oldurmulerdir. [Yet another annoying picture of the
slaughtered innocent Muslim children by the Armenians]
p. 285.
"Bu suretle sehirde 23 gun cok kanli olaylar cereyan etti, bu sure
sonunda Van, Ermeniler tarafindan tamamen isgal olundu. Buradan
kacabilen Turklerin, Ermenilerin davranislari hakkinda verdikleri
haberler tuyler urpertici idi. Cunku isyancilar halkin cogunu oldurmus,
kadinlarin irzina gecmis, Turk kadin ve kizlarini bazi evlerde
topladiktan sonra buralarini Genelev haline getirmislerdir. O zaman
Van'da 1500 kadar kadin ve cocuktan baska Turk kalmamis, bunlari da
oradaki Amerikalilar korumustur. Sehir bastan basa harab olmus, carsi
kamilen yanmisti."
A. Alper Gazigiray, _Muslim Archival Material on the Genocide
Perpetrated by the Armenians Against the Muslim people in Eastern
Anatolia,_ Gozen Kitabevi, Istanbul, 1982.
pp. 260-261.
"Van isyaninda gerek Van sehri ve civari Ermenilere birakildigi zaman,
gerek Turk halkinin yollarda kacarken maruz kaldigi facianin toplami
hakkinda, bunca arastirmalara ragmen tam ve kesin bir bilgi elde
edilememistir. Fakat yukarda isaretlendigi gibi yalniz Van sehri
halkindan 10,000 Turk oldugune gore, civardaki kasaba ve koylerden
kacan halktan da en asagi 20,000 Turkun oldurulmus oldugu kabul
edilebilir.
Van isyani, Turk milleti icin unutulacak bir olay degildir. O, erkek,
kadin, ihtiyar, cocuk on binlerce cana nasil kiyilmis oldugunu
gosteren cok acikli bir trajedi sahnesidir. En buyuk bir facia, en
buyuk bir vahset ve cinayet sahnesidir.
Sefalet o derecede idi ki 1915 senesinin yaz aylarinda bir yandan tifo,
tifus, dizanteri ve kolera gibi bulasici hastaliklar; ote yandan aclik,
halkin bircogunun yollarda perisan olmasina sebebiyet veriyor ve
yollar cesetlerle dolmus bulunuyordu. Yiyecek temini, bir sey bulmak
mumkun olmadigi gibi icecek su dahi yoktu. Cunku 70 km. uzunlugundaki
Bitlis deresi, cekilmege calisan zavalli Turklerin cesetleri ile dolu
bir halde idi. O billur gibi akan ve hayat kaynagi olan Bitlis
deresinin bircok yerleri adeta kan rengine burunmustu. Ozellikle
derenin kenarlarinda toplanmis olan su birikintilerinde yeni dogmus
yavrularin cesetlerini ve bir cok kan pihtilarini gormek ne kadar
aciydi.
Bu asil Turk milletinin geceli gunduzlu ac ve sefil bir halde yuruyen
en asagi on binlerce zavalli evlatlarini Siirt, Diyarbakir yollarinin
birlestigi, ziyaret denilen Veyselkarani Turbesinin bulundugu vadi
duzlugune geldigi zaman, durumun fecaatini buyuk bir uzuntu ile
seyrettim. Bu duzluk basi sarili, hasta yatan ve acliktan iskelet
haline gelmis insanlarla tamamen dolu idi. Inleyen bir kalabalik, bir
taraftan hastalikla mucadele ederken, diger taraftan da esyasiz ve
cirilciplak terk ettigi evini, tarlalarini ve oradan getiremedigi aile
efradini dusunerek buyuk izdirap icinde olduklari yasli gozlerinden
anlasiliyordu. Biz bu hale mi dusecektik? Her seyimizi verdigimiz,
kendilerine tamamen itimat ettigimiz bu Ermeni canileri bize bunu da
mi yapacaklardi? Diyerek agliyorlardi.
Buradan bir kisim halk Diyarbakir'a, bir kismi da Siirt'e gitmeyi
kararlastirarak bu istikametlerde yollarina devam etmeye basladilar,
kacmak lazimdi. Cunku Ermeniler Rus Ordusu ile beraber durmadan
Turkleri oldurmege geliyorlardi."
Veysel Eroglu, _The Armenian Genocide of the Muslim People in
Eastern Anatolia,_ Sebil Yayinevi, Istanbul, 1978.
p. 195.
A disgusting picture of the Muslim women and children slaughtered by
the Armenians.
"Erzurum - Ilica arasi yollar boyle mudafaasiz Turk kadin ve
cocuklarinin parcalanmis cesetleriyle doldurulmustu."
p. 227.
Yet another vilely picture of the butchered Muslim women and children
by the Armenians.
"Kars'ta Ermeni komiteleri tarafindan birbirlerine baglanarak katledilen
masumlar."
p. 183.
"Ruslardan once Terpusek'e gelen Ermeni ceteleri'nin yaptiklari yagma
ve gasp ile zulumler soylemekle bitmeyecek derecede coktur. Ermeniler
genc erkekleri birer birer sokaklarda kudurmus kopekler gibi oldurmeye
ve yok etmeye basladilar. Kadinlari, alcak hareketi yaptiktan sonra
cesitli hakaretlerle vahsetlerden haric birakmadilar."
p. 210.
"Erzurum'un kuzeyine cekilen Ermeni kitalarindan bir kismi, o havaliyi
de bir katliam sahnesine cevirmislerdir. Bilhassa Erzurum'un kuzeyinde
Ergenis koyunden kadin cocuk ihtiyar demeksizin elli musluman
katledildikten sonra koy kamilen yakilmistir. Erzurum'un dogusundaki
ova koylerinde Ermeniler tarafindan pek cok kizlarin namusuna tecavuz
ve pek seni muameleler tatbik olundugu ve bir kisminin da birlikte
alinip goturuldugu anlasilmistir.
Hosan, Kalcak ahalisinden elli erkegin Kumkum'da cesetleri bulunmustur.
Makalisor koyu ahalisi ve Kumkum'daki butun erkekler yol yaptirilmak
bahanesiyle goturulmus ve bunlarin akibetleri mechul kalmistir.
Ermeniler Kumkum'u, kasabada bulunan yirmi kadin ve cocugu katlettikten
sonra terketmislerdir."
Neside Kerem Demir, _The Crime of Genocide Committed by the
Armenians Against the Muslim People,_ Hulbe Basim ve Yayin
T.A.S., Ankara, 1979.
pp. 116-117.
"Ilica kasabasindan kacamayan Turkler'in hepsinin oldurulmus oldugunu ve
kor baltalarla enselerinden kesilmis bircok cocuk cenazesi gordugunu
bizzat Odiselidze soyledi. Ilica kirginindan uc hafta sonra oradan donen
Yarbay Griyaznof, gorduklerini soyle anlatti:
'Koylere giden yollarda, uzuvlari tahrip edilmis bircok cenazeye rastladim.
Her gecen Ermeni, bu cesetlere bir kere soger ve tukururmus. 12 - 15 sajen
(25.5 - 31.9 metre) karelik cami avlusunda iki arsin (142 santim)
yuksekliginde cenaze yigilmisti. Bunlarin arasinda her yasta kadin, erkek,
cocuk ve yaslilar vardi. Kadin cenazelerinde zorla irza gecme izleri, pek
belli bir halde idi. Bircok kadin ve kizlarin tenasul yerlerine, tufek
fisegi sokulmustu...Ermeniler, bir kadini canli oldugu halde, duvara
civilemisler; sonra gogsunu oyup, basinin ustune asmislar.'"
Erenkoy
LETTER FROM BOGHOS NUBAR, ARMENIAN LEADER TO THE TIMES OF LONDON, JANUARY 30,
1919, p.6
The leader of the Armenian delegation in attendance at the Paris Peace
Conference after World War I, Boghos Nubar Pasha, openly acknowledged the
fact that it was the Armenian contributions to the allied war effort which
led to their mistreatment by the Ottoman authorities:
* "The unspeakable suffering and dreadful losses that have befallen the
Armenians by reason of their faithfulness to the Allies are fully well known.
* But I must emphasize the fact unhappily known to few, that ever since the
beginning of the war the Armenians fought by the side of Allies on all
fronts.
* In the Caucasus, without mentioning the 150,000 Armenians in the Russian
armies, 50,000 Armenian volunteers under Andranik, Nazarbekoff and others not
only fought for four years for the cause of Entente,...
* I wish strongly to urge that the Armenians, having of their own free will
cast their lot with the champions of right and justice, the victory of the
Allies over their common enemies has secured them a right for independence."
Which state in the history, during war, when some of its citizens take up
arms against their own state, has not tried to protect itself? The Ottoman
decision to relocate the Armenian population must be judged in this context.
How well the state was able to protect its civilian population during the
relocation, must be judged in comparison to its ability to protect all of its
citizens.
****
Source: The Times of London, issue of January 30, 1919, p.6
To the Editor of the Times,
Sir, the name of Armenia is not on the list of the nations admitted to the
Peace Conference. Our sorrow and our disappointment are deep beyond
expression. Armenians naturally expected their demand for admission to the
Conference to be conceded, after all they had done for the common cause.
The unspeakable suffering and the dreadful losses that have befallen the
Armenians by reason of their faithfulness to the Allies are now fully known.
But I must emphasize the fact unhappily known to few, that ever since the
beginning of the war the Armenians fought by the side of the Allies on all
fronts. Adding our losses in the field to the greater losses through
massacres and deportations, we find that over a million out of a total
Armenian population of four million and a half have lost their lives in and
through the war. Armenia's tribute to death is thus undoubtedly heavier in
proportion than that of any other belligerent nation. For the Armenians have
been belligerents de facto, since they indignantly refused to side with
Turkey.
Our volunteers fought in the French "Le'gion Entrange're" and covered
themselves with glory. In the Le'gion d'Orient they numbered over 5,000, and
made up more than half the French contingent in Syria and Palestine, which
took part in the decisive victory of General Allenby.
In the Caucasus, without mentioning the 150,000 Armenians in the Russian
armies, about 50,000 Armenian volunteers under Andranik, Nazarbekoff, and
others not only fought for four years for the cause of the Entente, but after
the breakdown of Russia they were the only forces in the Caucasus to resist
the advance of the Turks, whom they held in check until the armistice was
signed. Thus they helped the British forces in Mesopotamia by hindering the
Germano-Turks from sending their troops elsewhere.
These services have been acknowledged by the Allied Governments, as Lord
Robert Cecil recognized in the House of Commons.
In virtue of all these considerations the Armenian National Delegation asked
that the Armenian nation should be recognized as a belligerent. Had the
recognition been granted, we should now have been admitted, ipso facto, to
the Conference, to which even transatlantic States have found access, though
having merely broken off diplomatic relations with Germany, without the least
sacrifice on their part.
At the moment when the fate of Armenia is being decided at the Peace
Conference, it is my duty, as the head of the National Delegation which has
no tribute from which its voice can resound, to state once again, in the
columns of The Times, the important part played by the Armenians in this
frightful war. I wish strongly to urge that the Armenians, having of their
own free will cast their lot with the champions of right and justice, the
victory of the Allies over their common enemies has secured to them a right
to independence.
Believe me, sir, yours very truthfully,
Boghos Nubar
Paris, January 27, 1919
Erenkoy
FROM THE DIPLOMACY OF IMPERIALISM, WILLIAM L. LANGER, NEW YORK (ALFRED A.
KNOPF) 1960, pp.157-160
The record of Armenian revolutionary activities against the Ottoman Empire in
the last two decades of the 19th century is dealt with in detail in the work
of the Harvard University diplomatic historian, William Langer. Langer traces
the manner by which the Armenian revolutionaries sought to incite European
intervention on behalf of their cause. Specifically, by massacring innocent
Muslim villagers, they hoped to provoke counter-violence which would then
serve as a pretext for European intervention.
Langer writes:
"Europeans in Turkey have agreed that the immediate aim of the agitators was
to incite disorder, bring about inhuman reprisals, and so provoke the
intervention of the powers. For that reason, it was said that, they operated
by preference in areas where the Armenians were in hopelessly minority, so
that reprisals would be certain. One of the revolutionaries told Dr. Hamlin,
the founder of Robert College, that Henchak bands would:
"watch their opportunity to kill Turks and Kurds, set fire to their villages,
and then make their escape into the mountains. The enraged Moslems will then
rise, and fall upon the defenseless Armenians and slaughter them with such
barbarity that Russia will enter in the name of humanity and Christian
civilization and take possession."
When the horrified missionary denounced the scheme as atrocious and infernal
beyond anything ever known, he received this reply:
"It appears so to you, no doubt; but we Armenians have determined to be free.
Europe listened to Bulgarian horrors and made bulgaria free. She will listen
to our cry when it goes up in the shrieks and blood of millions of women and
children..>We are desperate. We shall do it."
* And so the revolutionaries began to get what they wanted - reprisals. It
mattered not to them that perfectly innocent people were being made to suffer
for the realization of a program drawn up by a group in Geneva or Athens, a
group which had never been given any mandate whatever by the Armenian
community.
* Hogarth tells of Armenians in the provinces who said they wished the
patriots would leave them alone. But these people were not consulted by
others for the sacrifice; their lives were the price to be paid for the
realization of the fantastic national-socialist state of the fanatics."
***
Source: William L. Langer, The Diplomacy of Imperialism, New York (Alfred A.
Knopf), pp.157-160
"The Hentchakian Revolutionary party was, in 1890, invited to join the
Armenian Revolutionary Federation, and did so, but the association of the two
did not last long. Nazarbek was evidently not an easy person to get on with
and preferred to work on his own. At first he had trouble in finding
followers, but his new collaborators worked hard, Khan-Azad, for example went
to Constantinople in July 1889 and began to spread propaganda. He consulted
with Khrimian, but found the old man doubtful:"You are crazy," said the old
patriot. "The Armenians are a very small nation, and how much blood will have
to be shed." He could not see how anything substantial could be done without
European help. But Khan-Azad was not discouraged. he went on to Tiflis, where
he had no better luck. It was only in Trebizond that he found any real
enthusiasm. There he established the central committee of the party, and from
that centre agents were sent out who organized revolutionary cells in
Erzerum, Kharput, Smyrna, Aleppo and many other places. Nazarbek himself
stayed discreetly in Geneva, but in a volume of stories published later he
has given us vivid pictures of the agitators visiting the peasants, "talking
the night through with them, speaking with them of their sufferings,
unceasingly, impatiently, preaching the gospel of an eye for an eye, a tooth
for a tooth, rousing their curshed spirits with high resolves and mighty
aspirations."
The ambassadors at Constantinople were not slow in following the development
of this agitation. From 1888 onward the English representative reported the
presence of revolutionaries and the seizure of seditious literature.
Revolutionary placards were being posted in the cities and there were not a
few cases of the blackmailing of wealthy Armenians, who were forced to
contribute to the cause. Europeans in Turkey were agreed that the immediate
aim of the agitators was to incite disorder, bring about inhuman reprisals,
and so provoke the intervention of the powers. For that reason, it was said,
they operated by preference in areas where the Armenians were in a hopeless
minority, so that reprisals would be certain. One of the revolutionaries told
Dr. Hamlin, the founder of Robert College, that the Henchak bands would
"watch their opportunity to kill Turks and Kurds, set fire to their villages,
and then make their escape into the mountains. The enraged Moslems will then
rise, and fall upon the defenseless Armenians and slaughter them with such
barbarity that Russia will enter in the name of humanity and Christian
civilization and take possession."
When the horrified missionary denounced the scheme as atrocious and infernal
beyond anything ever known, he received this reply:
"It appears so to you, no doubt; but we Armenians have determined to be free,
Europe listened to the Bulgarian horrors and made Bulgaria free. She will
listen to our cry when it goes up in the shrieks and blood of millions of
women and children...We are deperate. We shall do it."
Serious trouble began in 1890, when there were disturbances and some
bloodshed at Erzerum. The outbreak had not been premeditated or planned, but
the Hentchak hoped to capitalize it. To encourage interest it arranged to
stage a great demonstration in Constantinople to impress both the Turkish and
the European governments. The affair was carefully planned and the minimum
demands of the revolutionaries (civil liberties) were sent in advance to the
foreign ambassadors. A proclamation was read in Armenian Church at Kum-Kapu,
in which the Armenians were told in so many words: "You must be your own
self-governing master."
Even this demonstration had no favorable results. During the following months
the efforts of the leaders seem to have gone into negotiations for an
agreement with other revolutionary groups. There were long conferences at
Athens, and in December 1891 the Hentchak officially joined the Oriental
Federation of Macedonian, Albanian, Cretan and Greek revolutionists. The
newspaper was transferred to Athens, where it remained until the end of 1894,
at which time the Armenian organization moved to London. In the interval
propaganda was being carried on in Armenia and efforts were being made to
induce the Kurds to join forces with the insurgents. Agents were sent also to
America, where branches were established in Boston, Worcester and other
cities. Khan-Azad reports that he raised in America no less than $10,000 to
support the cause.
When the Gladstone cabinet came into power in the summer of 1892 the hopes of
the Armenians ran high, for was not the Grand Old Man the savior of the
oppressed? As a matter of fact the Liberal Government began almost at once to
send sharp notes to the Porte. The Anglo-Armenian Committee and the
Evangelical Aliiance made the most of the situation and raised the hue and
cry of religious persecution. But English influence had sunk so low at
Constantinople that no attention was paid to the protests from London. The
Turkish government probably realized even then the Russian government, just
as hostile to the Hentchakian aspirations as the Turkish, would stand behind
it. In 1890 the Russian officials had co-operated with the Turkish in
breaking up an Armenian raiding party organized in the Caucasus. Many writers
have taken the stand that English intervention only made matters worse. "The
Turk begins to repress because we sympathize" wrote David Hogarth; "and we
sympathize the more because he represses, and so the vicious circle
revolves". England "is more responsible for the cold-blooded murders which
have come near exterminating the Armenians than all other nations put
together" remarked an American traveller.
It requires no very vivid imagination to picture the reaction of the Turks to
the agitation of the revolutionists. They had constantly in mind, if not the
revolt of the Greeks, at least the insurrection in Bulgaria and the
disastrous intervention of Russia and the powers. Whether Abdul Hamid
deserves the black reputation that has been pinned to him is a matter for
debate. If he was "the bloody assassin" and the "red Sultan" to most people,
he was the hard-working conscientious, much harassed but personally charming
ruler to others. Those who have spoken for him have pointed out that the
Sultan felt his Empire threatened by the Armenians who he knew or at least
believed, were in league with the Young Turks, the Greeks, Macedonians, etc.
They believe that Abdul Hamid was the victim of what we moderns call a
persecution complex. He was terrified, and for that reason surrounded himself
not only with high walls, but with all sorts of dubious characters,
especially spies and delators who justified their existence by bringing ever
more alarming reports.
So much at least cannot be denied: that the revolutionists planned a great
conflagration and that they gave the Sultan and his ministers ample fright.
One of their proclamations read:
"The times are most critical and pregnant with ominous events. The cup is
full. Prepare for the inevitable. Organize, arm, -arm with anything. If one
place revolts or shows resistance, do the same in your locality. Spread the
fight for liberation. yes, in truth, it is better to live as a free man for a
day, for an hour, and to die fighting, than to live a life of slavery for
generations, nay for centuries."
In the summer of 1894 the Revolutionary Committee wrote a letter to the Grand
Vizier warning him that there would be a general rising in the Empire if the
"very just demands of the Armenian people" were not met. No one could blame
the government for anticipating a tremendous upheaval and for taking
precautions. Probably to counteract the efforts made to bring the Kurds into
the movement, the Sultan had, in 1891, organized the tribesmen in the famous
Hamidie regiments, which were modelled on the Russian cossack brigades and
were supposedly meant to act as a frontier defense force. In 1877 and 1878,
however, the Kurd troops had been more trouble than they were worth, it may
therefore be assumed that the purpose of the new organizations was to satisfy
the chief and keep them from joining forces with the Armenian
revolutionaries. In fact they could and were, under the new system, used
against the Armenians. Beginning in 1892, the Hamidie regiments, sometimes
supported by regular troops, began to raid the Armenian settlements, burnign
the houses, destroying the crop and cutting down the inhabitants.
And so the revolutionaries began to get what they wanted - reprisals. It
mattered not to them that perfectly innocent people were being made to suffer
for the realization of a program drawn up by a group in Geneva or Athens, a
group which had never been given any mandate whatever by the Armenian
community. So far as one can make out the Hentchak agitators were ardently
supported by the lower-class Armenians in Constantinople, with whose help
they forced the election of the Patriot Ismirlian as patriarch in 1894. But
the upper classes appear to have been opposed to the whole program; indeed,
they were victimized themselves by threatening letters and by blackmail into
the financing of a scheme which they regarded as disastrous. As for the
peasantry in the provinces, it is perfectly obvious that they did not know
what it was all about. Isabella Bishop, who travelled through the country in
1891, makes the positive statement "that the Armenian peasant is as destitude
of political aspirations as he is ignorant of political grievances...not a
single occasion did I hear a wish expressed for political or administrative
reform, or for Armenian independence." Hogarth tells of Armenians in the
provinces who said they wished the patriots would leave them alone. But these
people were not consulted. Whether they liked it or not, they were marked out
by others for the sacrifice; their lives were the price to be paid for the
Erenkoy
SIR A.H. LAYARD'S LETTER, 18 MARCH 1878 REGARDING ARMENIANS
Sir A.H. Layard, British Ambassador at Constantinople to the Earl of Derby,
Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs, london, Dispatch No. 365, March 18,
1878
This letter is reporting on the conversation of the Ambassador with
Archbishop Narsis, the Armenian Patriarch in Constantinople and indicates
that:
* "The previous year (1877), the Archbishop was anxious to persuade the
British that his people were not dissatisfied with the Turkish rule and they
greatly preferred remaining under it to being transferred to that of Russia,
* Since the Russian successes, the state of affairs has changed,
* The Archbishop and the Ambassador, discuss what is understood by "Armenia"
indicating that, what appeared in the Western maps did not exist on the
ground,
* The Ambassador indicates that, he had reason to believe that in the
"Armenia" defined by the Archbishop, a very large proportion of the
population is moslem and the Archbishop does not deny that this is the case,
but maintains that turks themselves would willingly accept a Christian
Government,
* The Archbishop indicates that if the just demands of Armenians are not
listened to, the country which he had referred to would rise against Turkish
rule, and would annex itself to Russia,
* The Archbishop requests that the conversation remain confidential so that
his position with the Turkish Government is not compromised."
*****
Mr. Layard to the Earl of Derby
No. 365, Confidential
Constantinople, March 18, 1878 (Received March 29)
My Lord,
By my despatch No. 364 of to-day I have transmitted a letter addressed to
your Lordship by Archbishop Narsis, the Armenian Patriarch of Constantinople.
When his Eminence called upon me to request that I would forward this letter
he took occasion to enter very fully into the position and grievances of the
Armenian nation or community. Your Lordship will remember that last year his
Eminence was anxious to persuade me that his people were not dissatisfied
with the Turkish rule, and that they greatly preferred remaining under it to
being transferred to that of Russia. He even declared their readiness to
enrol themselves in the Turkish army, or to be formed into a local force for
the defence of the Turkish territory. His Eminence admitted to me when I saw
him yesterday that such had been the case. But he said that since the Russian
successes, and especially since it had become known that Russia had
stipulated in one of the Articles of the Preliminaries of Peace for
administrative reforms for Armenia, the state of affairs had completely
changed. The Armenians were now greatly irritated against him for having put
Russia against them by giving support to the Turkish Government, and
"threatened to stone him". The fact that a large number of their fellow
countrymen had been transferred to Christian rule by the annexation of a part
of Armenia to Russia, and that autonomous Government was about to be conceded
to the Christian populations of European Turkey, naturally led them to demand
the same privileges. Their hatred of Mahoommedan rule had been increased by
the excess committed by the Kurds upon the Armenian inhabitants of the
Province of Van and of the district of Bayazid, for which he had in vain
appealed to the Porte for redress. The Armenians were now determined to
assert their rights, and to claim to be placed upon the same footing as their
fellow-Christians elsewhere. If they could not obtain what they asked from
the justice and through the intervention of Europe, they would appeal to
Russia, and would not cease to agitate until they were annexed to her.
Already, his Eminence said, a large portion of the Christian population of
Armenia was preparing to emigrate to the territories ceded to Russia. He
trusted, therefore, that the demands of the Armenians for an autonomous
Christian Government would be taken into favourable consideration at the
Congress, and that Europe would insist upon the formation of a self-governing
Armenian province.
His Excellency showed me the copy of a letter which he had addressed to
prince Bismarck, soliciting his Highness's protection and good offices for
the Armenians. he had sent it through Prince Reuss, who, as I have had
occasion to inform your Lordship, has been in frequent communication of late
with the heads of the Armenian community, with the object, I am assured, of
detaching them from their allegiance to the Sultan, and of promoting the
policy of Russia.
I asked the Patriarch what he understood by "Armenia", and what part of
Turkey in Asia he considered ought to be included in the autonomous province
that he had in view. His Eminence replied that Armenia should contain the
Pashalics of Van and Sivas, the greater part of that of Diarbekir, and the
ancient kingdom of Cilicia (of the province on the northern boundry of Syria,
and extending to the west from the Taurus range to the sea). I pointed out to
his Eminence that what he asked was a very large slice indeed out of the
territories remaining to the Sultan in Asia Minor, and that in the provinces
he had mentioned, I had reason to believe, a very large majority of the
population consisted of Mussulmans. He did not deny that such was the case;
but he maintained that the Turks themselves were greatly dissatisfied with
the rule of the Porte, and would willingly accept a Christian Government
which would afford them protection for their lives and property.
To a remark that I made to the Patriarch that i did not think it probable
that the Congress would entertain so vast a project as that which he had
placed before me, his Eminence replied that if it did not do so, and did not
listen to the just demands of Armenians, the country to which he had referred
would rise, within a short time, against Turkish rule, and would annex itself
to Russia. He further observed that amongst the Generals and high
functionaries employed by Russia in Georgia and Armenia were many Armenians,
some of whom had greatly distinguished themselves during the war; that they
were in close relations with their brethren in Turkey, and that whatever his
own personal views might be -and he was simple priest, and had no mundane
ambition- his people were determined no longer to submit to Mahommedan rule,
and he could not oppose himself to their wishes.
I recount my conversation with the Patriarch to your Lordship, as it tends to
confirm what I have ventured to submit in other despatches with respect to
the danger of exciting the hopes and desires of other populations of the
Turkish Empire by according to those of European Turkey autonomous
institutions. An encouragement is thus given to intrigues and insurrections
in all parts of the Sultan's dominions, and to attempts to throw off his
authority and that of his Government which must inevitably lead, sooner or
later, to very serious results. If I am not misinformed such intrigues are
now carried on very actively and extensively for this object. The movement
amongst the Armenians is probably caused by these. It is not improbable that
we shall, ere long, hear of similar movements amongst the Mussulman as well
as Christian populations of other parts of Asiatic Turkey, including Syria.
They may take the form in Africa of a demand for complete independence of the
Porte. The falling to pieces and dismemberment of the Turkish Empire may be
in the eyes of some a desirable event, but England ought at least to be
prepared for the consequences. That an autonomous State, such as the
"Armenia" of the Patriarch, could long preserve even its semi-independence,
no one acquainted with the populations which inhabit the provinces it is
proposed by sanguine Armenians to include within its boundaries, could for
one moment believe. Autonomy must end in annexation to Russia, an event which
the Patriarch evidently seemed to contemplate. How far would it suit the
interests of England that Russia should extend her dominion over so large an
additional portion of Asia Minor and up to the very borders of Syria? That
she will ultimately do so appears to me one of the results of her annexation
of Eastern Armenia as far south as Bayazid.
The Patriarch requested me to consider our conversation confidential, as he
was afraid that he would compromise himself with the Turkish Government if
what had passed between us came to be known.
I have, & c.
(Signed) A.H. Layard
F.O.424/68,pp.346-348, no.639
=======================
Erenkoy
Abraham Sou Sever is a Sephardic Jew, born in Izmir, Turkey, before AWorld
War I. He later emigrated to the United States and now lives in California.
Abraham Sou Sever has filled a written Deposition and Testimonial in which he
tells the truth about the Armenians' "genocide" claims and their propaganda
methods from his own personal life experiences and knowledge. Particularly
significant is his testimony on Franz Werfel. Mr Sever's notarized deposition
has been transmitted to research institutions in the United States as part of
a written and oral history collection on the Armenian claims for a genocide.
Here is what Mr. Sever has to say about Franz Werfel and the events which
took place on Musa Dagh:
"Moussa Dagh (Mount Moussa), if the truth be known, is the best evidence of
the Armenian duplicity and rebellion. Fifty thousand Armenians, all armed,
ascended the summit of that mountain after provisioning it to stand siege.
Daily sallies from that summit of armed bands attacked the rear of the
Ottoman armies, and disappeared into the mountain. When the Ottomans finally
discovered the fortification the Armenians had prepared, they could not
assault and invade it. It stood siege for 40 days, which is a good indication
of the preparations the Armenians had made surreptitiously under the very
nose of the Ottoman Government. Nor was it ever explained that the rebellion
of the Armenians had been fostered, organized, financed, and supplied with
arms and munitions by the Russians.
Leaders of the Armenian revolutionary organization DASHNAGTZOUTIUN have
since admitted to have been seduced by Russia with promises of independence
and a New Armenia. They have admitted that they were financed and armed by
Russia. They have admitted that bands of Armenian revolutionaries had been
organized to sabotage and interfere with the Ottoman armies defending their
homeland, even before the Ottoman Government had entered the war against
Russia. The thousands who occupied the summit of Moussa Dagh for 40 days
escaped by descending the mountain by a secret exit fronting on the
Mediterranean, while the Ottoman armies were besieging the front of that
mountain. The Armenians had communicated by flambeau signals with the French
and British naval ships patrolling the Mediterranean. Those (thousands) who
escaped were taken aboard the ships of the British and French and transported
to Alexandria in Egypt. The Armenians found it to their interest to invent
that these thousands had perished -keeping their rescue by the British and
French a secret. Only a small contingent of Armenians who had remained
fighting the Ottomans finally surrendered.
My dear departed friend, Franz Werfel, who wrote that book, The 40 Days
at Moussa Dagh, never was in that region to investigate what he wrote. He
wrote it as his Armenian friends in Vienna had told him. Before his death,
Wefel told me that he felt ashamed and contrite for having written the book
and for the many falsehoods and fabrications the Armenians had foisted on
him. But he dared not confess publicly for fear of death by the Dashnag
terrorists.
Christian missionaries had found the Armenians willing and easy converts
from their ancestral orthodox Christianity to the Protestant and Catholic
brands. Sympathetic to their converts, they helped spread the false stories
of massacre throughout the Western World. Modern day Armenians heard the
false stories from their elders who were never there themselves, but had
heard them from the Dashnag revolutionaries who had made deals with the Czar
and the Bolsheviks. The Republic they established died aborning because of
the intrigues and subtle dealings typical of the Dashnag fanatics. The false
claims of genocide and holocaust have gained for them great sympathy
throughout the Western World. They cannot tolerate disproof and refutation.
They try to stifle and prevent disproof by threats."
Erenkoy
FROM HISTORY OF THE OTTOMAN EMPIRE AND MODERN TURKEY, VOL.II, STANFORD J.
SHAW AND EZEL KURAL SHAW, CAMBRIDGE UNIVERSITY PRESS, LONDON, 1979,
pp.314-317
This article is taken from the book of Professor Stanford Shaw, Professor of
History, University of California, Los Angeles, and Professor E. K. Shaw,
Associate Professor of History, California State University, Northbridge.
Shaw and Shaw summarized the state of affairs on the Northeastern front
during 1914-1916.
Knowing their numbers would never justify their territorial ambitions,
Armenians looked to Russia and Europe for the fulfillment of their aims.
Armenian treachery in this regard culminated at the begining of the First
World War with the decision of the revolutionary organizations to refuse to
serve their state, the Ottoman Empire, and to assist instead other invading
Russian armies. Their hope was their participation in the Russian success
would be rewarded with an independent Armenian state carved out of Ottoman
territories. Armenian political leaders, army officers, and common soldiers
began deserting in droves.
With the Russian invasion of eastern Anatolia in 1914 at the beginning of
World War I, the degree of Armenian collaboration with the ottoman's enemy
increased drastically. Ottoman supply lines were cut by guerilla attacks,
Armenian revolutionaries armed Armenian civilian populations, who in turn
massacred the Muslim population of the province of Van in anticipation of
expected arrival of the invading Russian armies.
Ottoman response was to order the relocation of its Armenian subjects from
the path of the invading Russians and other areas where they might undermine
the Ottoman war effort. The Ottomans could no longer determine which of the
Armenians would remain loyal and which would follow the appeal of their
leaders.
*****************THE NORTHEASTERN FRONT 1914-1916
German strategy prevailed at the outset, so that Enver had to concentrate
first on his ambitions in the east. Almost as soon as he became minister of
war he began to strengthen the Third Army, based at Erzurum, which covered
the entire area of northeastern Anatolia from Lake Van to the Black Sea, thus
it was ready to attack almost as soon as war was declared. Enver made a last
effort to secure the support of the sultan's Armenian subjects, but a meeting
at Erzurum with Armenian leaders from Russia as well as the Ottoman Empire
was unsuccessful. Russia already had promised the Armenians an autonomous
state including not only the areas under Russian rule in the Caucasus but
also substantial parts of eastern Anatolia with, presumably, Russian help in
finishing the job begun in 1877 of driving out or eliminating the Muslims who
still comprised the vast majority of their populations. The Armenian leaders
told Enver only that they wanted to remain neutral, but their sympathy for
the Russians were evident and in fact soon after the meeting "several
prominent Ottoman Armenians, including a former member of parliament, slipped
away to Caucasus to collaborate with Russian military officials," making it
clear that the Armenians would do everything they could to frustrate Ottoman
military action.
Still Enver decided that the Ottoman security forces were strong enough to
prevent any Armenian sabotage, and preparations were made for a winter
assault. Meanwhile, Czar Nicholas II himself came to the Caucasus to make
final plans for cooperation with the Armeniaans against the ottomans, with
the president of the Armenian National Bureau in Tiflis declaring in
response:
"From all countries Armenians are hurrying to enter the ranks of the glorious
Russian Army, with their blood to serve the victory of Russian arms...Let the
Russian flag wave freely over the Dardanelles and the Bosphorus. Let, with
Your will, great Majesty, the peoples remaining under the Turkish yoke
receive freedom. Let the Armenian people of Turkey who have suffered for the
faith of Christ receive resurrection for a new free life under the protection
of Russia."
Armenians again flooded into the czarist armies. Preparations were made to
strike the Ottomans from the rear, and the czar returned to St. Petersburg
confident that the day finally had come for him to reach Istanbul.
Hostilities were opened by the Russians, who pushed across the border on
November 1, 1914, tough the Ottomans stopped them and pushed them back a few
days later. On December 21 Enver personally led the Third Army in a
counterattack. He aimed to cut the Russian lines of communications from the
Caucasus to their main base at Kars and to reoccupy it along with Ardahan and
Batum as the first step toward an invasion of the Caucasus. Key to the
envelopment operation was the border town of Sarikamis, which lay astride the
main route from Kars to the north. The Ottomans managed to occupy the town on
December 26, but the Russians then retook it. A subsequent Russian
counteroffensive in January caused the ottoman Army to scatter, with over
three-fourths of the men lost as they attempted to find their way back to
safety. Ottoman morale and military position in the east were seriously hurt,
and the way was prepared for a new Russian push into eastern Anatolia, to be
accompanied by an open Armenian revolt against the sultan.
In the initial stages of the Caucasus campaign the Russians had demonstrated
the best means of organizing a campaign by evacuating the Armenians from
their side of the border to clear the area for battle, with the Armenians
going quite willingly in the expectation that a Russian victory would soon
enable them not merely return to their homes but also to occupy those of the
Turks across the border. Enver followed this example to prepare the Ottoman
side and to resist the expected Russian invasion. Armenian leaders in any
case now declared their open support for the enemy, and there seemed no other
alternative. It would be impossible to determine which of the Armenians would
remain loyal and which would follow the appeals of their leaders. As soon as
spring came, then, in mid-May 1915 orders were issued to evacuate the entire
Armenian population from the provinces of Van, Bitlis and Erzurum, to get
them away from all areas where they might undermine the Ottoman campaigns
against Russia or against the British in Egypt, with arrangements made to
settle them in towns and camps in the Mosul area of northern Iraq. In
addition, Armenians residing in the countryside (but not in the cities) of
the Cilician districts as well as those of north Syria were to be sent to
central Syria for the same reason. Specific instructions were issued for the
army to protect the Armenians against nomadic attacks and to provide them
with sufficient food and other supplies to meet their needs during the march
and after they were settled. Warnings were sent to the Ottoman military
commanders to make certain that neither the Kurds nor any other Muslims used
the situation to gain vengeance for the long years of Armenian terrorism. The
Armenians were to be protected and cared for until they returned to their
homes after the war. A supplementary law established a special commission to
record the properties of some deportees and to sell them at auction at fair
prices, with the revenues being held in trust until their return. Muslims
wishing to occupy abandoned buildings could do so only as renters, with the
revenues paid to the trust funds, and with the understanding that they would
have to leave when the original owners returned. The deportees and their
possessions were to be guarded by the army while in transit as well as in
Iraq and Syria, and the government would provide for their return once the
crisis was over.
The Entente propaganda mills and Armenian nationalists claimed that over a
million Armenians were massacred during the war. But this was based on the
assumption that the prewar Armenian population numbered about 2.5 million.
The total number of Armenians in the empire before the war in fact came to at
most 1,300,000 according to the Ottoman census. About half of these were
resident in the affected areas, but, with the city dwellers allowed to
remain, the number actually transported came to no more than 400,000,
including some terrorists and agitators from the cities rounded up soon after
the war began. in addition, approximately one-half million Armenians
subsequently fled into the Caucasus and elsewhere during the remainder of the
war. Since about 100,000 Armenians lived in the empire afterward, and about
150,000 to 200,000 immigrated to western Europe and the United States, one
can assume that about 200,000 perished as a result not only of the
transportation but also of the same conditions of famine, disease, and war
action that carried away some 2 million Muslims at the same time. Careful
examination of the secret records of the Ottoman cabinet at the time reveals
no evidence that any of the CUP leaders, or anyone else in the central
government, ordered massacres. To the contrary, orders were to the provincial
forces to prevent all kinds of raids and communal disturbances that might
cause loss of life.
In April 1915, even before the deportation orders were issued, Dashnaks from
Russian Armenia organized a revolt in the city of Van, whose 33,789 Armenians
comprised 42.3 percent of the population, closest to an Armenian majority of
any city in the empire. While the local Armenian leaders tried to restrain
their followers, knowing they would suffer in any prolonged communal conflict
with the Muslim majority, they were overwhelmed by the agitators from the
north, who promised Russian military assistance if only they showed their
loyalty to the czar by helping to drive the Muslims out. The Russian Army of
the Caucasus also began an offensive toward Van with the help of a large
force of Armenian volunteers recruited from among refugees from Anatolia as
well as local Caucasus residents. Leaving Erivan on April 28, 1915, only a
day after the deportation orders had been issued in Istanbul and long before
new of them could have reached the east, they reached Van on May 14 and
organized and carried out a general slaughter of the local Muslim population
during the next two days while the small Ottoman garrison had to retreat to
the southern side of the lake. An Armenian state was organized at Van under
Russian protection, and it appeared that with the Muslim natives dead or
driven away, it might be able to maintain itself at one of the oldest centers
of ancient Armenian civilization. An Armenian legion was organized "to expell
the Turks from the entire southern shore of the lake in preparation for a
concerted Russian drive into the Bitlis vilayet." Thousands of Armenians from
Mus and other major centers in the east began to flood into the new Armenian
state, including many who broke away from the deportation columns as they
passed the vicinity on their way to Mosul. By mid-July there were as many as
250,000 Armenians crowded into the Van area, which before the crisis had
housed and fed no more than 50,000 people, Muslim and non-Muslim alike. Early
in July, however, Ottoman reinforcements pushed the Russo-Armenian army back.
It was accompanied by thousands of Armenians who feared punishment for the
killings that had made possible the short-lived state. "The panic was
indescribable. After the month-long resistance to Cevdet Bey, after the
city's liberation, after the establishment of an Armenian governorship, all
was blighted. Fleeing behind the retreating Russian forces, nearly two
hundred thousand refugees, losing most of their possessions in repeated
Kurdish ambushes, swarmed into Transcaucasia," with as many as 40,000
Armenians perishing during the flight. The number of refugees cited
encompassed essentially all those Armenians of the eastern provinces who had
not been subjected to the deportations. Those who died thus did so mainly
while accompanying the retreating Russian army into the Caucasus, not as a
result of direct Ottoman efforts to kill them.
Erenkoy
THE FORGERIES OF ARAM ANDONIAN - SO CALLED TALAT PASHA TELEGRAMS
To butress their historically questionable portrayal of themselves as victims
of "genocide", Armenian spokesmen and scholars have traditionally relied on
an ever-increasing number of propaganda claims and outright falsehoods.
These telegrams are crude forgeries, a fact which has recently been
established beyond any doubt in the work of two Turkish scholars, Sinasi Orel
and Sureyya Yuca. While they will be discussed in further detail in the
following paragraphs, their relentless repetition in the so-called works of
history written by Armenians, has given them the totally unjustified status
of "historical documents". They, like the false claims of Armenian innocence,
and inflated figures of Armenian dead, have found a place in the Armenian
propagated version of their "historical reality".
THE FORGERIES OF ARAM ANDONIAN
In the First World War, the Ottoman Empire fought on the side of the Central
Powers - Germany, Austria-Hungary, and Bulgaria - against the Entente powers
- England, France and their allies. At least since that time, the Ottomans
have been accused of a conscious policy of extermination towards their
Armenian minority. During the war, such accusations belonged to the standard
repertoire of war propaganda, as used by all nations in all times. In the
case of the Ottomans, and their Turkish heirs, however, events took a more
dramatic course than usual.
The virulent attacks on Turkey did not let up. On the contrary, the Ottomans
were soon being accused of massacre, and after the Second World War the word
became genocide. The intention here was obviously to draw a parallel between
the fate of the Armenians in the turmoil of the First World War and Hitler's
extermination policies towards the Jewish people.
The basis for the accusations against the Ottomans (and later against the
Turks) was a book written by Aram Andonian in 1920, The Memoirs of Naim Bey:
Turkish official Documents Relating to the Deportations and Massacres of
Armenians - in French, Documents Officiels concernant les massacre armeniens.
he published this book simultaneously in Paris, London and Boston -in
English, French and Armenian. Ever since then, these "Documents" have formed
the backbone and the basis of all Armenian accusations against the Ottomans
and their Turkish heirs.
Aram Andonian claims to have met an Ottoman official by the name of Naim Bey
in Aleppo, after the entry of the British. This official supposedly passed
the papers with the death orders to Andonian. Without going any further into
the serious differences between the French and English editions of these
"Document Officiels", it must be said that after having studied both editions
it is no longer clear whether these are supposed to be the memoirs of Naim
Bey or or Aram Andonian.
In the text of the English edition, there are altogether forty-eight
"Official ottoman Documents" scattered through the book. These are attributed
to the following persons and institutions
Person/Organization Number of
documents
Minister of the Interior Talat Pasha 30
Director of the Settlement Commission of
Aleppo, Abdulahad Nuri Bey 8
Governor of Aleppo, Abdulhalik Bey 3
Committee of Union and Progress (the
government party at the time, to which Enver
and Talat also belonged) 2
Minister of War Enver Pasha 1
Ministry of the Interior 1
Governor of the region Deir es Zor, Zeki Bey 1
Governor of the region Antep, Ahmed Bey 1
Unknown 1
Not all of these "documents" are complete. Sometimes the date is missing,
sometimes the serial number, occassionally both. All in all, exactly half are
lacking in some way. The originals of the papers copied by Andonian were
never seen. Photographs of fourteen "documents" appear in his books. When
asked for the originals, he claimed they were lost. Not a single one of the
documents reproduced by Andonian can be found today. They were probably
destroyed to make it more difficult to prove that they were forgeries.
Andonian made so many mistakes in preparing the papers, however, that it is
possible to prove with absolute certainty that they were forgeries, even
without the originals.
WRONG DATES
The simplest, absolutely irrefutable proof of the forgery involves Andonian's
incorrect use of calendar information. To give just one example, Andonian has
the governor of Aleppo signing documents at a time when he had not yet been
named to the post and was still living in Istanbul.
Naturally, for his forgeries Andonian used the Rumi calendar, which was in
use in the Ottoman Empire at the time. The Rumi (Roman) calendar of the
Ottomans was a special variation of the common Islamic calendar, which takes
the Hegira (Muhammed's flight from Mecca to medina in 622 A.D.) as a starting
point. Because it used lunar years, it was only necessary to subtract 584
years to convert from the Gregorian to the Rumi year. 1987 A.D., for example,
would be 1403 on the Rumi calendar. There is another trick, however. In
addition to the 584 years, one also has to figure in a difference of thirteen
days. Moreover, the Rumi calendar began on March 1. That meant that the last
two months of the Rumi calendar (January and February) were already the first
months of the Christian calendar.
The correct date - according to the Christian calendar - for these last two
months of the Rumi calendar is obtained by adding 584 plus one year. An
example: January 5 of the year 1331 (Rumi) corresponds to January 18, 1916
(1331+584+1 and 13 days). That, however, is still not all the tricks. As
mentioned above, the Ottoman year always began on March 1. In February 1917,
the difference of thirteen days between the Rumi and Gregorian calendars was
eliminated in order to facilitate conversion. The difference of 584 years
remained unchanged, however. Thus, February 16, 1332 (February 1917) suddenly
became March 1, 1333 (March 1, 1917). At the same time, the year 1333 (1917)
was made into a year with only ten months, running from March 1 to December
31. January 1, 1334 thus became January 1, 1918 A.D. (Note: The Turkish
Republic adopted the Gregorian calendar in 1925, so that the Rumi year 1341
became 1925 A.D.) These calendar technicalities may seem very complicated and
uninteresting. they are, however, of tremendous importance in connection with
The Forty Days of Musa Dagh and the forgeries of Aram Andonian, which at
first, fooled Franz Warfel.
In considering the dating (and the sequential numbering) of the "Andonian
papers" and the authentic documents, one must also keep in mind that the
numbering of the March 1 (1333 Rumi = 1917 A.D.) and continued sequentially
through February 28 (the last day of the Rumi year). It was then "New Year's"
once again on March 1.
In forging the most important of his "documents", which he called Number 1,
Aram Andonian already committed a serious error. Here is the text of the most
important part of this "document".
DOCUMENT NO. 1
"In the name of God, the Compassionate, the Merciful, To the delegate at
Adana, Jemal Bey.
February 18, 1331 (March 2, 1916). (Note: This is the date which appears
on Andonian's original Turkish 'document'. See below for discrepandies in
the French and English editions)
The only force in Turkey that is able to frustrate the political life of
the Ittihad and Terakki (Committee of Union and Progress) is the
Armenians. From news which has frequently been received lately from Cairo,
we learn that the Dashnaktsutiun is preparing a decisive attack against
the Jemiet."
After a short transition, the alleged "Document No.1" comes to the following
conclusion:
"The Jemiet has decided to save the fatherland from the ambition of this
cursed race, and to take on its own patriotic shoulders the stain which
will blacken Ottoman history. The Jemiet, unable to forget all old scores
and past bitterness, full of hope for the future, has decided to
annihilate all Armenians living in Turkey, without leaving a singl;e one
alive, and it has given the Government a wide scope with regard to this.
Of course the Government will give the necessary injunctions about the
necessary massacres to the Governors..."
After some further details, the "document" ends with an unreadable signature.
For the sake of completeness, it should also be mentioned that this key
letter in Andonian's colelction of documents is dated February 18, 1331
(February 18, 1915) in the original French version of his book, but bears the
date February 8, 1331 (March 25, 1915) in the English version. The original
Turkish text however, clearly bears the date February 18, 1331. Let us
recall: according to the rules of calendar conversion, February 18, 1331
corresponds to March 2, 1916. (1916 was a leap year, so February had 29
days.) It does not correspond to February 18, 1915, as in the French
translation, nor to March 25, 1915, as in the English translation, In other
words, Aram Andonian should have written 1330 instead of 1331 if he wanted to
forge the correct date. A letter written on March 2, 1916 can hardly have
brought about events that are supposed to have occured nine months earlier!
Anyone who thinks that this might have just been an accident, a mistake on
the official's part, will be set straight by "Document No. 2" in Andonian's
collection. The second letter in his collection should naturally have been
dated March 25, 1332 (April 7, 1916), but in fact bears the date March 25,
1331. It is quite clear that the forger simply knew too little about the
Ottoman calendar and overlooked these tricky details in converting.
The Turkish historians Sinasi Orel and Sureyya Yuca published an extensive
scientific work in 1983 concerning the forgeries of Aram Andonian. They
follow up on all the details (there are hundreds) of the unsuccessful
forgeries. These range from dates and counterfeit signatures to
transmogrified greetings such as "Bismillahs", which no Moslem would ever
have dared to write.
A particularly insidious section of the forged Andonian papers deals with the
"broadening of the massacre" - in particular to include children. This
section is brillantly done from a psychological standpoint. One "document" of
this type read as follows:
DOCUMENT NO. 4
Deciphered copy of a ciphered telegram of the Ministry of the Interior.
No.502, September 3, 1331 (September 16, 1915)
"We recommend that the operations which we have ordered you to make shall be
first carrie dout on the men of the said people (the Armenians), and that you
shall subject the women and children to them also. Appoint reliable officials
for this.
The Minister of the Interior
Talat
Note: To Abdulhalad Nuri Bey. September 5. Have you met with the commandant
of the gendarmerie?
The governor, Mustafa Abdulhalik"
Aside from the fact that the governor's signature is clearly (and crudely)
forged, Andonian was sloppy and let another blunder slip through in composing
this telegram. No "Governor Mustafa Abdulhalik" could possibly have had
anything to do with an administrative act in Aleppo on September 3 or
September 5. The Governor of Aleppo at that time was Bekir Sami Bey. Mustafa
Abdulhalik was still in Istanbul at the beginning of September. He took
office in Aleppo on October 10, 1915.
There is indeed a telegram from September 3, 1331 in the Ottoman archives
addressed to the governor of Aleppo, Bekir Sami Bey. At any rate, it bears
the serial number 78 and not Andonian's fantasy number 502.
It appears that Franz Werfel, in writing The Forty Days of Musa Dagh, was
especially moved by Andonian's chapter on "The Broadening of the Massacre".
It was no longer ust the men who were to be killed (according to Andonian's
forgeries). Now, the women and children were to be put to death as well.
Twelve of Andonian's "documents" deal with this issue. Five of them are
supposedly to be from Talat Pasha himself. Fortunately, these telegrams were
especially easy to expose as crude forgeries, based on several criteria
(date, signature, names, serial number)."
The above summary is from Eric Feigl based on Orel and Yuca's findings.
Now read the Armenian forgeries in its crudest form:
>
> TURKISH RECORDS ON THE ARMENIAN GENOCIDE
>
> -- "Minister of the Interior, Talaat, 16/9/1915 -- To the
> Government of Aleppo. It was at first communicated to you
> that the Government by the order of the Jamiet, had decided
> to destroy completely all Armenians living in Turkey [W.
> Armenia]... An end must be put to their existence, however
> criminal the measures taken may be, and no regard must be
> paid to either age or sex nor to conscientious scruples."
>
> Central Committee Member of the Ittihad ve Teraki, Dr. Nazem who
> organized the plan of the executions, expressed his convictions
> thus in a speech delivered to the Central Committee:
>
> -- "I repeat! We must not leave one single Armenian in
> Turkey [W. Armenia]!, we must kill the Armenia name!... Some
> of you, perhaps will say 'Is it possible to be that
> barbaric? or what harm can come from children, babies, the
> old people, the sick, so that we should kill those? Who is
> guilty, the guilty is that person who must be punished. It
> is savagery to kill innocent people, and it is contrary to
> civilization, and Dr. Nazem is an extremist, and he does not
> use logic.' you will say. I beg you, Efendis, do not show
> such signs of weakness or gentleness of your hearts. This is
> a bad sickness - we are in the War, and what is war?, Is it
> not savagery? Savagery is in the laws of nature."
>
> [and then there is civilization which goes beyond savagery]
>
> Naim Bey, the one time head of the Young Turks in Syria, writing
> in TURKISH OFFICIAL DOCUMENTS RELATING TO DEPORTATION AND
> MASSACRES OF ARMENIANS, (London, 1922) states that at Deir-El-
> Zor, 200,000 mostly women and children were massacred
> (p.xiii and 4)
Erenkoy
ARMENIANS MURDERED 148 MEMBERS OF OUR FAMILY - by ELIHU BEN LEVI
_San Francisco Chronicle_ (December 11, 1983)
(Editor's Mailbox - Section B)
Erenkoy
FROM THE DIPLOMACY OF IMPERIALISM, WILLIAM L. LANGER, NEW YORK (ALFRED a
kNOPF) 1960, pp.157-160
Langer writes:
Armenian community. So far as one can make out the Hentchak agitators were
ardently supported by the lower-class Armenians in Constantinople, with
whose help they forced the election of the Patriot Ismirlian as patriarch
in 1894. But the upper classes appear to have been opposed to the whole
program; indeed, they were victimized themselves by threatening letters
and by blackmail into the financing of a scheme which they regarded as
disastrous. As for the peasantry in the provinces, it is perfectly obvious
that they did not know what it was all about. Isabella Bishop, who
travelled through the country in 1891, makes the positive statement "that
the Armenian peasant is as destitude of political aspirations as he is
ignorant of political grievances...not a single occasion did I hear a wish
expressed for political or administrative reform, or for Armenian
independence." Hogarth tells of Armenians in the provinces who said they
wished the patriots would leave them alone. But these people were not
consulted. Whether they liked it or not, they were marked out by others
for the sacrifice; their lives were the price to be paid for the
realization of the phantastic national-socialist state of the fanatics.
====================
piper...@my-dejanews.com
KingARARAT wrote:
>
> Piper wrote:
>
> <<<so, the Turks, beset by World War One on all fronts and collapsing
> infrastructure on the inside, not finding their troubles enough, would
> be attacking the absolutely blameless Armenian people for the heck of
> it. Come on!>>>
>
> Piper,
> Once again, the Genocide was a factual event that we ALL have to accept one
day
> or another. There are no BUTs and IFs.
if only in your opinion :)
> no longer has the power to make economic threats to such countries as France
> and Belgium for if the Genocide is officially recognized by those countries,
it
thank you for your healthy respect, but you are overestimating us :).
Important as we are in regional economics, we are in no shape to
browbeat France or Belgium or any other European country with economic
threats, single or combined. We can't even handle the internal economy,
for crying out loud. No, if it had been a clear-cut case of genocide
like the Nazis and the Jews, we would have been nailed to the wall long
time ago, and we couldn't have done anything to stop it. But we don't
need to.
Speaking of international reckognition, I think you are also downplaying the
power of the Armenian lobby in the US congress, and various interest
groups in Europe and Canada. But then, I have healthy respect of you,
too :)
>
> The issue is not too complicated. Of course it can not be explained in a few
> lines, but it comes down to the following. The Ottomans had already lost most
> of its empire, including the Balkans. All that was left of this "sick man of
> Europe" was Asia Minor, including Western Armenia, and parts of Arabia. As you
> said, the Arabs were too far from the main core of the Empire, and the losing
> of those territories was also anticipated. What was left was the "best" of the
> Empire, Asia Minor and Armenia. Turks feared that Armenians were going to
> demand independence JUST AS all the others in the empire had asked for, and
had
> been awarded, decided to embark on a policy to exterminate and deport the
> entire Armenian populace of Western Armenia, thus securing a large piece of
> land that couldnt have been lost anymore.
That is a justifiable way of seeing it, and I can't blame you for seeing
it that way, considering the magnitude of the tragedy. But that by no
means makes it the one word of truth. Our wievs as to the causes and
nature of the move are vastly different compared to each other.
> There is MUCH more to it than what I just wrote, but this mainly why it
> happened.
> What do you think?
I think what I thought in my last reply to jmaksf: we are too deeply
entrenched in our wievs to accept any absolutist wievs of the other. I think
that while the tragedy of Armenian mass deaths itself is there, its causes
and the question of genocide are unclear and subject to interpretation, and
THAT's why the international opinion remains unclear. I also think that you
have more support for your opinion that ours , because: - mass deaths of
Armenians indeed occured - your communities in foreign countries are bigger,
powerful and therefore more influental - of the European enmity towards
Turkish society, because of the Ottoman past and all that -which was
incomparably more powerful in 1915, by the way, and in my opinion was one of
the reasons of the incidents- - our failure to communicate our own civilian
losses during the time at the hands of Armenian separatists, caused in part
by our rather inept international PR and in part by our international image,
which of course isn't exactly burnished by our human rights record in recent
times
but still, things remain -and will remain- unresolved, and there are
"historical documents", even by supposedly "objective sources" -i'm not even
counting the subjective ones by each side- enough to support anybody's cause.
I don't want to spend more time on this, but if you want to push it, I can
demonstrate this to you document by document. So to conclude, while being
emotionally attached to my point of wiev, I do not accept it as the absolute
truth, and of course I don't and will accept yours as well, neither it is.
And I still think the whole thing as pointless and a futile effort to
dig around in the muddied past that blots out your -and to a degree our-
awareness in red prejudice, destroying any hope for a peaceful
coexistance between our societies. Whatever happens ARARAT, we are still
here and will remain so forever next to you, and so of course will you. Think
about it.
piper
>
> KingARARAT
> ARMENIAN NATION
KingARARAT
I finally found some reasoning in your words. Of course i do not agree with a
lot of things u say, but i can say that some of your accepted ideas are among
the rational on SCT.
You said you will bring document by document do demonstrate some of your views,
which i definitley dissagree with you on. i don't think that would be necessary
on the internet. Dont assume that i am giving in or chickening out, I simply
cannot devote so much time to something that has little meaning on the net,
especially consideriong my load of school work. If we were discussing this
issue with you one on one, i would most definitely devote more time and prove
my point as well document by document.
<<<And I still think the whole thing as pointless and a futile effort to......
destroying any hope for a peaceful coexistance between our societies. >>>
Piper, the last thing we need right now is an escalation of this animosity. I
am with you on this one. But i would not call "this whole thing pointless,"
because we are talking about a VERY VERY serious matter which cries for
international attention. This issue should have seen resolved many decades ago,
but apparently it was not. We need to act up, and make a first step towards
recognition, before the turn of this century.
KingARARAT
ARMENIAN NATION
jma...@my-dejanews.com
pipe...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
> > the differences between the violences perpetrated were quite different. The
> > action of a few insurgents (who, of course, included violence and murder in
>
> but you see jmaks, that's the whole problem. Since I've begun reading
> these forums, or argue about the subject elsewhere, I haven't seen, read
> or heard one Armenian mention these "few insurgents". This is no
> exaggeration. Not one. Are they so unimportant as to be not worth the
> mention? And if they are important, why aren't they mentioned?
Probably because when it comes to a policy of extermination based on race
alone, regardless of what was perpetrated by a minority of that race, then
the matter of insurgency is irrelevant. If the Ottomans formed a
defense/offense against the Armenian paramilitaries and them alone, then you
could argue that this is relevant, and that those who were fighting and
killing Turks deserved what they got (death). But the fact remains that
Ottoman policy under the Young Turks included deporting and killing everyone
of Armenian ethnicity, regardless of political affiliation. Do you really
presume that the doctors, lawyers and other Armenians in Istanbul had any
interest in the Armenian self-determination issue across Anatolia? Or did
their wives and children, who were also sent on death marches?
> > the Turkish leadership were rather plain about seeing the presence of
> > (Christian) Armenians as a nuisance and an impediment to their vision of a
> > purely Turkish, purely Muslim populace.
>
> I do not dispute the deportation, and the terrible tragedy that arose from
> it, but I must correct you on one point: There has never been a movement to
> ethnically cleanse the Anatolia. There has never been an "Ottoman
> Nationalizm".
Yes, there has been, and I'm afraid your historical education has been
completely wrong about this. I don't blame you; you are simply the product of
a well-funded, and well-organized mission by the Turkish government to turn
their own people into historical revisionists.
Ottomans are/were not a nation, they are an amalgam, something
> that has no comparison today and became defunct at the beginning of the era
> of nationalizm, hence their unraveling. Their basis of existance was that
> they were a ruling class over peoples of many different ethnicities, all
> under the sultanate. The world knew them as Turks, but the very word "Turk",
> was a taboo word inside the empire until the beginning of 19.th century. The
> very idea of nationalism was poison to them and utterly foreign. (That's also
> the chief reason why Turkish nationalism emerged much later than the others:
> yours, Greeks,etc).
It started with the Young Turks. These nominal Ottomans were very much
gathering public support for a Turkish ethnic identity and an ethnic homeland
rid of any minorities that might be considered insurrectionist.
Therefore, the deportations could not have been been an
> ethnic cleansing movement of the sort seen in the WWII and onwards, they must
> have been for security reasons.
Everyday citizens, apolitical women and small children are security threats?
The security reason sounds rather racist, don't you think?
Grossly misthought, and even more ineptly
> executed without doubt, but there must have been enough "few insurgencies"
> which are not "beside the point" to provoke such a response. Again, the
> response might have been overblown compared to the threat, but a threat there
> must have been, not just urges of ethnic purity in the middle of a world war
> raging on all fronts.
The threat doesn't matter...no "threat" means exterminating an entire race.
They used *ethnicity alone* to decide who would die and who wouldn't, and you
keep dodging this. They didn't ask each person whether they believed Armenia
should carve up Ottoman lands and kill every non-Armenian inside, before they
slaughtered them. They just slaughtered them.
> The fact that some Armenians were
> > fighting for land near Van was just a sidenote; it's not as if the Ottomans
> > weren't also losing more than half their empire through the Balkans and
> > Arabia as well.
>
> It's true the empire was losing ground right and left, but the Armenians were
> the only people at the time to whom deportation could have been applied to.
> the Arabs were nomadic and spread too far, the Balkans were already gone, and
> the Anatolian Greeks had not yet revolted (and by the time they had, the
> empire itself was gone)
How pragmatic of you. So if the Arabs were more concentrated, and if *some
Greeks* had revolted, *all Arabs* and *all Greeks* in Ottoman lands could have
been dealt the same deadly fate, according to you.
> > So when you talk about "mistakes being made on all sides", remember who
> > composed those sides, and ask yourself if you are confusing certain
movements
> > with *entire races* of people. Apparently, the progenitors of your current
> > government have done the same, and continue to do the same. Turkey's war
>
> sorry, jmaks, but you are not there, and we are. And it is not. It's
> the whole story over again, I'm very much afraid.
When you're the majority in power, you see things differently. I'm sure many
white Americans think that racism against blacks doesn't exist, and many
Serbs think that everything is just peachy in Banja Luka, but the rest know
the difference. How do you feel about Amnesty Int'l putting Turkey at near
the top in terms of human rights violations?
> > against Kurdish separatism is becoming increasingly an attack on the Kurdish
> > people, regardless of where they live or their political affiliation,
instead
> > of on the PKK members.
>
> Okay, forget it. Forget all I said. We could sit here for months, bouncing
> mails off each other, swapping figures and history as we know them, talking
> more out of gut feeling and belief than fact even though we might not
> sometimes realize that, just like fish aren't aware of water. Just tell me
> this: why hate now? why hate still? Even if anything happened, I am not
This is not about hate. I don't hate you. And you are not responsible for
what your grandfathers did. What you ARE responsible for is the truth. You
should be honest to the face of history in saying that what your rulers did
80 years ago was sick, gruesome, and a horrible mistake, and that it should
never be done again, regardless of any 'reasoning.' There is no reason to
enact a racist, genocidal policy. If you can't even fess up to the
truth--nothing more--then you can't get my respect. And that's what this
discussion is about.
> guilty of what my great greandfathers did and so aren't you of yours. Why
> hate US,here and now? I've written in another message that our points of view
Thank goodness my family is from Iran, which didn't feel the need to murder
and deport its ethnic minorities for "security reasons." But in WWII, when
Turkey allied itself with Germany (again), it ordered the Azeris to start
killing Armenians again. My family was in danger even though they were simple
farmers with absolutely no political affiliation.
> were biased mirror images of each other, but really, what we have here is not
> this all-encompassing and does not approach the level I've seen in postings
> by other Armenians. Does this hate arise ONLY from the fact that we've still
> failed to acknowledge your genocide theory? Is hatred of Turks such a great
> part of your peoples' cultural identity?
Is the complete lack of respect for our loss and our understandable distrust
of your government, and the willingness to gloss over major crimes of
humanity a part of YOUR peoples' cultural identity. I would be afraid to make
such a sweeping statement, but the ONLY Turks that have admitted to me (in
private, of course) that they are ashamed at what their government did and
continues to do (in terms of denial and suppression of truth) have also
admitted that its "very Turkish" to deny any wrongdoing by the government.
> Let me tell you something. I don't know who exactly killed whom, and I don't
> believe anybody's "facts" : not yours, not ours, not anybody's. When
> history's distorted by so many parties, made plaything in the hands of so
> many people with so strong prejudices, facts lose their meaning and it is as
> George Orwell said in 1984:"War is Peace" and "Ignorance is Strength" So I
> don't five a damn anymore. All i can say for myself is that I want to live in
> peace with my neighbor. Nothing else matters. The ghosts of the past poison
> us. They poison us with accusations of enormous crimes, and they poison you
> with hatred
It is easy for you to dismiss this as a mere figment of historical
imagination, and to recite platitudes from literature, because you haven't
met anyone who witnessed what happened,or they were (understandably) in no
mood to talk about it. Part of being able to move on comes with reconciling
yourself with the past. If you are truly interested in good relations with
your neighbor, then admit to what your nation has done and promise that you
wouldn't stand for it to happen again. If *some* of your neighbors still hate
you for being a Turk, and insist that you are personally responsible for the
action of your forebearers, then you can dismiss them. The majority will
respect you for your honesty, forgive you (after all, we are Christians and
we're obligated to do so), and move on. It's water under the bridge only
when we both agree that it's water.
Adil
<71njlv$tsa$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com> to Piper:
#In article <71esgs$no3$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>,
# pipe...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
#
#> guilty of what my great greandfathers did and so aren't you of yours. Why
#> hate US,here and now? I've written in another message that our points of view
#
#Thank goodness my family is from Iran, which didn't feel the need to murder
#and deport its ethnic minorities for "security reasons." But in WWII, when
#Turkey allied itself with Germany (again), it ordered the Azeris to start
#killing Armenians again. My family was in danger even though they were simple
#farmers with absolutely no political affiliation.
What is the basis of the above false claim? It is yet another attempt of
history revisionism. Turkey "'ordered' Azeris" [sic]? To "killing
Armenians again?" What kind of ridiculous accusations are those?
For your information, there are plenty of archive materials, including
those of British archives, about Armenian NAZI collaboration. I think they
even had a separate batallion for that purpose.
Meanwhile, I am very interested to learn how could Turkey "order"
Azerbaijanis, who were part of Soviet Union and thus bitter enemy of
Turkey and West and of Nazi's for that reason. Soviet Union as a whole
lost at least some 20 million people (mostly civilians) due to Nazi
aggression -- more than anyone else -- and small Azerbaijan SSR alone lost
some 400,000 combatants -- the number which equals total human losses of
USA in the same war!!!
never...@my-dejanews.com
Adil <bagu...@aludra.usc.edu> wrote:
> On Tue, 3 Nov 1998 jma...@my-dejanews.com wrote in Message-ID:
> <71njlv$tsa$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com> to Piper:
>
> #In article <71esgs$no3$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>,
> # pipe...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
> #
> #> hate US,here and now? I've written in another message that our points of
view
> #
> #Thank goodness my family is from Iran, which didn't feel the need to murder
> #and deport its ethnic minorities for "security reasons." But in WWII, when
> #Turkey allied itself with Germany (again), it ordered the Azeris to start
> #killing Armenians again. My family was in danger even though they were simple
> #farmers with absolutely no political affiliation.
>
> What is the basis of the above false claim? It is yet another attempt of
> history revisionism. Turkey "'ordered' Azeris" [sic]? To "killing
> Armenians again?" What kind of ridiculous accusations are those?
They are as ridiculous as yours Azizem !
> For your information, there are plenty of archive materials, including
> those of British archives, about Armenian NAZI collaboration. I think they
> even had a separate batallion for that purpose.
let me remind you that not a long time ago, the world Jewish congress asked
Turkey to return the Nazi gold it had from WWII.
And it is very disappointing that some Armenians had the connection you
mentioned above. But non contributed to the death of civilians.
And talking about archives, you seem to believe the archives concerning
"Armenian NAZI collaboration" and discredit the "plenty of archive materials"
in Birtain, US, Germany, Russia and elsewhere that talk about the massacres
of the Armenians in 1915 and the obvious intent of Genocide !!!!
Oops, Adil is losing marks here. Shall I start counting Azizm ;)
> Meanwhile, I am very interested to learn how could Turkey "order"
> Azerbaijanis, who were part of Soviet Union and thus bitter enemy of
> Turkey and West and of Nazi's for that reason. Soviet Union as a whole
> lost at least some 20 million people (mostly civilians) due to Nazi
> aggression -- more than anyone else -- and small Azerbaijan SSR alone lost
> some 400,000 combatants -- the number which equals total human losses of
> USA in the same war!!!
Based on what you are saying that 400,000 Azerbaijanis lost their lives.
Soviet Armenia lost 30,000 combatants in WWII. It had many Generals in the
Soviet Army, most were from Karabagh. How many Generals did you country had
stupid !!!
Now lets see, what was the population of Azerbaijan during WWII, are you using
your logic when you claim that Azerbaijan lost 400,000 combatants in WWII !
Logiciz
I think you wanted to say 40,000, or maybe 4000 ? I think you are confused.
Anyway, the numbers seem to by rising based on compound interest.
Last advice "don't get hyper active" :)
Your heart will stop sooner than its supposed to, and better ask Dadayev to
read your future ?
Adil
#> For your information, there are plenty of archive materials, including
#> those of British archives, about Armenian NAZI collaboration. I think they
#> even had a separate batallion for that purpose.
#
#let me remind you that not a long time ago, the world Jewish congress asked
#Turkey to return the Nazi gold it had from WWII.
#
#And it is very disappointing that some Armenians had the connection you
#mentioned above. But non contributed to the death of civilians.
My Armenian comrade, you are mistaken! Perhaps I shall refresh your short
memory:
On December 30, 1941 Dashnaks/ARF have formed a 8,000 strong battalion,
which was named the 812th Armenian Battalion of Wehrmacht. It was by the
way under the command of the so much respected and loved by all Armenians
"general" Dro (just as the other "great" one, "general" Andronik). It
later developed into a 20,000 strong "Armenian Legion", with more efforts
by such as Alfred Muradian and Armik Jamalian (son of the foreign minister
of the short-lived Dashnak republic of 1918-1920). The Legion was trained
by the SS -- does that name ring a bell? -- and by its Security Division,
SD. They later joined the Nazi Einsatz Gruppen in the invasion of Crimea
and the North Caucasus (gladfully, never reached Azerbaijan, I can only
imagine what other massacre they could have brought upon the civilians).
One more general, Karekin Nezhdeh also founded some bigot movement, called
"Armenian Tseghagron" through which Armenian youths would later join SS
and other elite Nazi forces (that is by the way mentioned in Armenian
Review I, 1958, by James Mandalian).
And yes, they did contribute to the death's of civilians, specifically
that of Jews. In fact they organized the death marches to the
concentration camps. I have many quotes from contemporary Armenian
publications on their racist views of Jews and praises to Hitler. Should I
post them too?
#And talking about archives, you seem to believe the archives concerning
#"Armenian NAZI collaboration" and discredit the "plenty of archive materials"
#in Birtain, US, Germany, Russia and elsewhere that talk about the massacres
#of the Armenians in 1915 and the obvious intent of Genocide !!!!
#
#Oops, Adil is losing marks here. Shall I start counting Azizm ;)
Absolutely not. Show me where did you post a single archive material and
where did I discredit it? Please go ahead, I am waiting. If you fail, I
have to call you a liar.
Otherwise, there are archive materials both supporting and completely
dismissing the claims of Armenians, that is widely known and veterans of
SCT have seen countless debates on this subject. Which is a good showcase
and subject to automatic dismissal of Armenian claim to any "unique" and
"unlateral" suffering.
#> Meanwhile, I am very interested to learn how could Turkey "order"
#> Azerbaijanis, who were part of Soviet Union and thus bitter enemy of
#> Turkey and West and of Nazi's for that reason. Soviet Union as a whole
#> lost at least some 20 million people (mostly civilians) due to Nazi
#> aggression -- more than anyone else -- and small Azerbaijan SSR alone lost
#> some 400,000 combatants -- the number which equals total human losses of
#> USA in the same war!!!
#
#Based on what you are saying that 400,000 Azerbaijanis lost their lives.
#Soviet Armenia lost 30,000 combatants in WWII.
You are wrong on both counts. I don't know where you take your estimate
from, but Armenian Soviet casualties have been actually higher than
30,000. Meanwhile, my estimate of 400,000 comes from Soviet and
Azerbaijani sources.
I don't understand why you react so aggressively to this though? Does it
shatter into pieces your biased perceptions and stereotypes persistently
pumped into you from your birth?
If you were to study heroic Soviet people's opposition and fight to death
against Nazism, you would know that mobilization of resources was
complete. Everyone in Soviet family had someone who fought and died in the
war.
#It had many Generals in the
#Soviet Army, most were from Karabagh.
It was my believe that EVERY Armenian general came from Karabakh, isn't it
right? I am not sure, but I though that's how it was. In any account:
# How many Generals did you country had
#stupid !!!
Stupid you are! Azerbaijan has had several heros and concretely, generals,
in WWII. One of the better known is General Azi Aslanov. If you have not
heard of him -- another indication of your stupid ignorance! My
granfather's late brother was by the way colonel (only one rank lower than
general) in Aslanov's tank batallion. Satisfied?
Meanwhile, Armenia has no more right to claim generals from Karabakh
region as Azerbaijan. After all, Karabakh region has been always
Azerbaijan's, whether in form of region or khanate, and so it was during
the war (despite all the attempts to alter population makeup in Armenian
favor). In fact it raises interesting question: why did those Armenians
had to be born and raised in Azerbaijan to become heros? Why weren't there
(m)any such people from Armenia SSR itself? So I guess ethnicity and
"Armenian roots" have nothing to do with this phenomena.
<rest of repetitive ad hominem is erased>
SERAFET
How interesting!
pipe...@my-dejanews.com
KingARARAT wrote:
>
> Piper,
>
> I finally found some reasoning in your words. Of course i do not agree
I knew I was going to get through :)
> You said you will bring document by document do demonstrate some of your
views,
> which i definitley dissagree with you on. i don't think that would be
necessary
> on the internet. Dont assume that i am giving in or chickening out, I
I see that u are an early riser/late nite reader, too. That is healthy
attitude, for both of us. If you'd accepted the offer, we'd both die :)
or flunk
> <<<And I still think the whole thing as pointless and a futile effort to......
> destroying any hope for a peaceful coexistance between our societies. >>>
>
> Piper, the last thing we need right now is an escalation of this animosity. I
> am with you on this one. But i would not call "this whole thing pointless,"
it was never my intention to belittle your tragedies. Almost nobody in
Turkey does, believe me. It's the effort of smearinging us with a
heinous crime that hardens most people over here, against you.
> because we are talking about a VERY VERY serious matter which cries for
> international attention. This issue should have seen resolved many decades
ago,
> but apparently it was not.
and i said why was that, and u answered, and then i asked again, and u?
ok, you just honored me by finding reason in what I said. Now, let me
try again. Find the reason in this, if you will:
There was indeed a genocide. And we Turks are the best spinners in human
history. Japan is forced to apologise for her WWII behaviour. Germany
has never stopped apologizing for Holocaust since 1945. But we somehow,
are still off the hook. For all the facts for the world to cry out at,
PR relations wizards that we are , we can still conjure up false
documents that match yours one for one -some from sources you would be
hard pressed to call subjective, even- and confound the search for
truth. There were attemps all along to discredit the Holocaust. There
were brushed aside. There were attemps to discredit God knows how many
Asian deaths, up to recent years, even. They are brushed aside and Japan
is on her knees today. And the whole world still can't get its act
together over 1.5mil. deaths being the result of genocide, because..?
a)1.5 mil is too small to care about?
b)you haven't communicated your plight enough?
c)we are an economic superpower, as great as Germany and Japan, and
throttle any country that searches for truth such that 1.5 mil. deaths
don't matter.
well, what do you think?
We need to act up, and make a first step towards
> recognition, before the turn of this century.
we reckognise that we abhor senseless, all-encompassing violance. We
reckognise that we wish to coexist with our neighbors peacefully, respecting
them and getting respected in turn. (what a 180 change of heart for racial
killers of 75 years past, is it not) This is the official view of Turkish
government, not just my wishful thinking. Also from personal experience, I
know that it is also the wish of almost all the Turks I know, despite what we
have been taught -which ý gather, does not compare in intensity to what u are
subject to over there-
if that is not enough for u and nothing short of seeing us branded as
genociders, then it's a real shame, ARARAT. a real shame
the first towards understanding is stopping to give a rational cloak to
our gut feelings. Or at least trying to.
piper
regards
spider
too much credit and accepting the genocide with a NightBar intellectual
attitude. You must know that the so called genocide is a tool for these
people. Their primary aim is to separate the eastern part of Turkiye
and add it to the Armenia. They dont give a damn if there was really
a genocide. They have been locked and loaded onto their target. Along
with trying the get the so called native Armenian land from Turkiye,
they will also ask billions of dollars. This is why they have been keep
pushing on this hoaxed issuie. You will ask me why especially Armenians
abroad are very sensitive on this. The answer is very simple; they
are the ones who will share the billions and land they have been
dreaming of. Now, If you are a citizen of Turkiye, I hope you will
start acting against these people especially the ones who
call themselves KingArarat which is a Turkish soil.
pipe...@my-dejanews.com wrote in message
<71ss6c$vaa$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
>
>
>KingARARAT wrote:
>>
>> Piper,
>>
>> I finally found some reasoning in your words. Of course i do not agree
>
>I knew I was going to get through :)
>
>> You said you will bring document by document do demonstrate some of your
>views,
>> which i definitley dissagree with you on. i don't think that would be
>necessary
>> on the internet. Dont assume that i am giving in or chickening out, I
>
>I see that u are an early riser/late nite reader, too. That is healthy
>attitude, for both of us. If you'd accepted the offer, we'd both die :)
>or flunk
>
>> <<<And I still think the whole thing as pointless and a futile effort
to......
>> destroying any hope for a peaceful coexistance between our societies. >>>
>>
>have been taught -which ı gather, does not compare in intensity to what u
are
>subject to over there-
>
>if that is not enough for u and nothing short of seeing us branded as
>genociders, then it's a real shame, ARARAT. a real shame
>
>the first towards understanding is stopping to give a rational cloak to
>our gut feelings. Or at least trying to.
>
>piper
>
>regards
Nevzat Akdemir
I am wondering what our intellectual libo$ will answer to that.
At the end, noone knows who piper_98 is on the other hand.
nevzat
spider wrote:
> >> <<<And I still think the whole thing as pointless and a futile effort
> to......
> >> destroying any hope for a peaceful coexistance between our societies. >>>
> >>
Gaghjayan
>history. Japan is forced to apologise for her WWII behaviour. Germany
>has never stopped apologizing for Holocaust since 1945. But we somehow,
>are still off the hook. For all the facts for the world to cry out at,
>PR relations wizards that we are , we can still conjure up false
>documents that match yours one for one -some from sources you would be
>hard pressed to call subjective, even- and confound the search for
>truth. There were attemps all along to discredit the Holocaust. There
>were brushed aside. There were attemps to discredit God knows how many
>Asian deaths, up to recent years, even. They are brushed aside and Japan
>is on her knees today. And the whole world still can't get its act
>together over 1.5mil. deaths being the result of genocide, because..?
>a)1.5 mil is too small to care about?
>b)you haven't communicated your plight enough?
>c)we are an economic superpower, as great as Germany and Japan, and
>throttle any country that searches for truth such that 1.5 mil. deaths
>don't matter.
>
>well, what do you think?
>
Well now, I think you have a misperception of the realities of the world.
How about the other genocides of the world, are all recognized by the
perpetrators? Do you know what is taught in Japanese schools on WW2 and the
atrocities?
What sets apart the pertrators is their desire to correct a wrong. To accept it
was wrong and thus the need for attonement. The Turkish government has not
allowed the Turkish people to evolve enough for such an occurence.
Now, maybe you can answer a question for me - it really is quite simple.
If your government "historians" cannot even depict Armenian historical sites
accurately, then why would you believe the rest of the propaganda? What threat
do those sites present that lies must be perpetuated and the Turkish populace
left in ignorance?
George Aghjayan
Gagh...@aol.com
KingARARAT
I am also curious to hear your answer to Mr. Aghjayan's question. As you know,
the eastern half of Anatolia is currently going through another Armenian
Genocide, the destruction, conversion, and superposing of Armenian historical
sites.
KingARARAT
ARMENIAN NATION
pipe...@my-dejanews.com
> > exaggeration. Not one. Are they so unimportant as to be not worth
the
> > mention? And if they are important, why aren't they mentioned?
>
> Probably because when it comes to a policy of extermination based on
race
> alone, regardless of what was perpetrated by a minority of that ace,
then
> the matter of insurgency is irrelevant. If the Ottomans formed a
let others decide what is irrelevant when they get all the facts. Even
if you are the sole judge of irrelevancy, which you aren't, that is no
excuse for hiding facts. Why is jmaksf the only Armenian I've heard who
admits to the insurgencies -though assuring that they were irrelevant-?
Afraid that that would be a setback in making the world reckognize the
"manifest truth" of genocide?
> interest in the Armenian self-determination issue across Anatolia? Or
did
> their wives and children, who were also sent on death marches?
>
> > ethnically cleanse the Anatolia. There has never been an "Ottoman
> > Nationalizm".
>
> Yes, there has been, and I'm afraid your historical education has
been
> completely wrong about this. I don't blame you; you are simply the
product of
> a well-funded, and well-organized mission by the Turkish government
to turn
> their own people into historical revisionists.
official histories in every country in the world are biased. Most men
however, still make up their own minds. You cannot talk of historical
revisionism, as if what you have been taught yourself is the very soul
of historical objectivism, which -dare I say it- isn't
> It started with the Young Turks. These nominal Ottomans were very
much
> gathering public support for a Turkish ethnic identity and an ethnic
homeland
> rid of any minorities that might be considered insurrectionist.
>
> Therefore, the deportations could not have been been an
> > ethnic cleansing movement of the sort seen in the WWII and nwards,
> they must
> > > have een for security reasons.
>
> Everyday citizens, apolitical women and small children are security
threats?
> The security reason sounds rather racist, don't you think?
During WWII, American citizens of Japanese origins were interned in
camps for the duration of the war. Removal to a faraway place of a
potential support base for insurgents or enemies has been carried out
before by others in history. Ýt is unethical, involves innocent victims,
i don't defend it, and it may even be racist too, but it is done and is
not genocide. Even the fact that somebody really made a mess of the
deportation doesn't make it one.
> and you
> > keep dodging this. They didn't ask each person whether they believed
> Armenia
> > should carve up Ottoman lands and kill every non-Armenian inside,
> yes the correct course would be th Ottomans have made a refe
I suppose a separatist would honestly answer yes to that huh? what true
gentlemen they must have been, then
>
> before they
> slaughtered them. They just slaughtered them.
ad, the
> > empire itself was gone)
>
> How pragmatic of you. So if the Arabs were more concentrated, and if
*some
> Greeks* had revolted, *all Arabs* and *all Greeks* in Ottoman lands
could have
> been dealt the same deadly fate, according to you.
According to me, you should read messages twice. I never supported or
defended the deportation, but you said the empire was losing ground
everywhere and why only the Armenians received deportatin if it was done
for only security reasons etc. etc, and I explained why this ill
conceived solution could not have been applied in other places
If you care to read only so much as necessary to distort, what's the
point of me writing? What's the point of you even writing these? Pull a
"Turkslayer" and relax..
>
>
> > > So when you talk about "mistakes being made on all sides",
remember who
> > > composed those sides, and ask yourself if you are confusing
certain
> movements
> > with *entire races* of people. Apparently, the progenitors of
> your current
> > > government have done the same, and continue to do the same.
Turkey's war
> >
> sorry, jmaks, but you are not there, and we are. And it is not.
> It's
> the whole story over again, I'm very much afraid.
>
> When you're the majority in power, you see things differently. I'm
> sure many white Americans think that racism against blacks doesn't exist, and
> many
>
And I'm suddenly sure you would see the little matter of nearly 10000
people killed by PKK since 1984 - counting Turkish citizens of Kurdish
origin they murdered - is yet another "sidenote" that must be considered
irrelevant -in all allegations against Turkey, that is-
> > the difference. How do you feel about Amnesty Int'l putting Turkey
> at near
> > the top in terms of human rights violations?
>
Terrible, as they are mostly true. We are not discussing our human
rights record here, however.
> >
> > Thank goodness my family is from Iran, which didn't feel the need to
> murder
> > and deport its ethnic minorities for "security reasons." But in WWII, when
> > Turkey allied itself with Germany (again), it ordered the Azeris to
> start
> > killing Armenians again. My family was in danger even though they
> were simple
> > farmers with absolutely no political affiliation.
the utter hubris in this accusation was laid bare by somebody else, so
won't bother. And it must have been some alliance indeed with Germany to
have taken in thousands of Jewish refugees, but never mind me. sidenote,
sidenote.
> > > > against Kurdish separatism is becoming increasingly an attack on
> the Kurdish
> > >
> >
> > This is not about hate. I don't hate you. And you are not responsible
> for
> > what your grandfathers did. What you ARE responsible for is the
> truth. You
> > should be honest to the face of history in saying that what your
> rulers did
> > 80 years ago was sick, gruesome, and a horrible mistake, and that it
> should
> > never be done again, regardless of any 'reasoning.' There is no
> reason
Genocide is not a mistake. It is delibarete attempt to exterminate a
people out of racial prejudice. Nobody exterminates anybody because they
are an inconveniency, as you suggest. Armenians and Turks have coexisted
peacefully in the Empire before 1915. Armenians and Turks coexist
peacefully in Turkey today. So what was it, a brief attack of xenofobia
by the young Turks? come on. You may consider this qubbling over a fine
point, it is exactly that point you are trying to smear us with.
and on admitting mistakes:
> we've still
> > > failed to acknowledge your genocide theory? Is hatred of Turks such
> a great
> > > part of your peoples' cultural identity?
> >
> > Is the complete lack of respect for our loss and our understandable
> distrust
> > of your government, and the willingness to gloss over major crimes of
> > humanity a part of YOUR peoples' cultural identity. I would be afraid
:)
I see you have lived among us these years. Where did you obtain this
opinion?
Almost all -except the small minority of extremists no side can claim to
lack - in Turkey accept the deportation. Almost all ýn Turkey, when
pushed a bit into the subject, admit that it was an ill-done policy to
varying degrees -ranging from a necessary evil to a grave
mistake-.(What? from the brainwashed unwashed? I must really be scrubbed
clean to have dreamt this up)
What makes them not admit to this readily is because accepting mistakes
has got nothing to do with what you want. For you, we absolutely must be
portraited as class 1 enemies of humanity, no less. And as I said,
genocide is no mistake.
On the other hand, distrust of the Armennians in their sincerity in
anything that concerns the past and us, HAS become a part of our
cultural identity. We've had 75 years to learn it. Accusing all while
denying all, the assasinations of tens of Turkish diplomats -btw jmaksf,
what was that all about, an honest outpouring of bereavement or what,
but oops there I dodge again.
In my opinion, the Turkish govt. would have long ago declared that while
no genocide, there had indeed been a terrible mistake -as to one degree
or other this is the shared majority opinion over here as I stated
before-, regardless of the mistake being the Ottomans' , regardless of
your still-continuing evasion of your "sidenotes", if you had been able
to convince us that reconciliation and acceptance was your sincere
intent, not just a thin veil over malice.
>
> > It is easy for you to dismiss this as a mere figment of historical
> > > imagination, and to recite platitudes from literature
>
Is reciting platitutes your sole right? Crowing about how well
documented your cause is, how it's all out there in documents for the
world to cry out at, etc etc. Is it indeed so disturbing for you that
for all the plain truth we can still do the same (but then again, our
platitudes must obviously be forgeries)
You've said how you can give my respect. You talk about facing up to the
past. You care for my respect? Get off your high horse, stop as if you
were slain angels or something. Stop dodging any "sidenotes". Stop as if
the only dead were your own, stop insulting ours by calling them
irrelevancies. Stop trying to heap the evil deeds done by both sides on
a single head under a heinous crime. I can face the past, but it's
useless if we don't face it together.
>
> Christians and
> > we're obligated to do so), and move on. It's water under the bridge
> only
> > when we both agree that it's water.
>
water, yes. bile, no.
piper
pipe...@my-dejanews.com
spider wrote:
>
> Piper, I am not sure you are really serious for giving this personality
> too much credit and accepting the genocide with a NightBar intellectual
> attitude. You must know that the so called genocide is a tool for these
> people. Their primary aim is to separate the eastern part of Turkiye
> and add it to the Armenia. They dont give a damn if there was really
forgive me if my tone sounded to you that way. I have already commented
on this before on another post to jmaksf on this same thred. If the Armenians
want any reckognition they must prove the sincerity - of which I
strongly doubt - of their intentions.
please respond
regards
piper
jma...@my-dejanews.com
pipe...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
> > Probably because when it comes to a policy of extermination based on
> race
> > alone, regardless of what was perpetrated by a minority of that ace,
> then
> > the matter of insurgency is irrelevant. If the Ottomans formed a
>
> let others decide what is irrelevant when they get all the facts. Even
So with your logic, the fact that some Jews were allied with Russia in WWII
justifies Germany's attempt at exterminating them, since the rest of the Jews
in Germany could pose a security threat. it's interesting that only Turks
and their close, close allies like the Azeris deny that the Genocide
happened. Even some like the Kyrgyz, which are your ethnic kin, are disturbed
your government's policy of revisionism.
> if you are the sole judge of irrelevancy, which you aren't, that is no
> excuse for hiding facts. Why is jmaksf the only Armenian I've heard who
> admits to the insurgencies -though assuring that they were irrelevant-?
> Afraid that that would be a setback in making the world reckognize the
> "manifest truth" of genocide?
Why wouldn't I admit that there were insurgencies? There were! Does this
justify trying to kill or deport everyone of Armenian ethnicity? Absolutely
not. I wonder how you might feel about Serbia's policy against "insurgent"
Croats and Muslims in their territory. You'll find what happened in former
Yugoslavia very closely mirrors what happened in Anatolia over 80 years ago,
and the similarity between the Serbian government and the Turkish one is
striking.
Your government wanted an excuse to cleanse itself of Armenians, and took
this insurgency in eastern Anatolia as an excuse to purge itself of Armenians
living in Istanbul, Izmir, Ankara and everywhere. After all, with Turkish
logic, if one Armenian is an insurgent, then they all must be.
> > a well-funded, and well-organized mission by the Turkish government
> to turn
> > their own people into historical revisionists.
>
> official histories in every country in the world are biased. Most men
> however, still make up their own minds. You cannot talk of historical
> revisionism, as if what you have been taught yourself is the very soul
> of historical objectivism, which -dare I say it- isn't
Yes, but the rest of the world agrees with my perspective and only other Turks
and Azeris agree with yours. Six billion to sixty million. If you believe in
moral and historical relativism, then I guess the numbers are in my favor.
> > Everyday citizens, apolitical women and small children are security
> threats?
> > The security reason sounds rather racist, don't you think?
>
> During WWII, American citizens of Japanese origins were interned in
> camps for the duration of the war. Removal to a faraway place of a
> potential support base for insurgents or enemies has been carried out
> before by others in history. İt is unethical, involves innocent victims,
> i don't defend it, and it may even be racist too, but it is done and is
> not genocide. Even the fact that somebody really made a mess of the
> deportation doesn't make it one.
Actually, I'm glad you brought that up, because what the Americans did in
WWII to ethnic Japanese is for similar reasons to what the Turks did to
Armenians in WWI. The differences: 1) the US has since condemned its own
actions as disgustingly racist and wrongful, with no acceptable reasoning,
and Turkey has not, and 2) the Japanese weren't slaughtered like the
Armenians; they were interned.
Difference #2 makes what happened to the Armenians a 'genocide'.
> > and you
> > > keep dodging this. They didn't ask each person whether they believed
> > Armenia
> > > should carve up Ottoman lands and kill every non-Armenian inside,
> > yes the correct course would be th Ottomans have made a refe
>
> I suppose a separatist would honestly answer yes to that huh? what true
> gentlemen they must have been, then
Yes, let's just assume that they're lying and kill them anyway because if
they're ethnically Armenian, they're a security threat. Better be safe than
sorry, huh?
> According to me, you should read messages twice. I never supported or
> defended the deportation, but you said the empire was losing ground
> everywhere and why only the Armenians received deportatin if it was done
> for only security reasons etc. etc, and I explained why this ill
> conceived solution could not have been applied in other places
The Armenians had a nation in between Turkey and Azerbaijan. BTW, in case
your education in history missed it, your government also did devastatingly
horrible things to the Greeks and Assyrians around the same time.
> If you care to read only so much as necessary to distort, what's the
> point of me writing? What's the point of you even writing these? Pull a
> "Turkslayer" and relax..
Well, all I can say is that you're pretty selective about what I write, what
information and facts exist. No one would have a problem understanding what
I'm writing except Turkish historical revisionists. And what's a
"Turkslayer"?
> > When you're the majority in power, you see things differently. I'm
> > sure many white Americans think that racism against blacks doesn't exist,
and
> > many
> >
>
> And I'm suddenly sure you would see the little matter of nearly 10000
> people killed by PKK since 1984 - counting Turkish citizens of Kurdish
> origin they murdered - is yet another "sidenote" that must be considered
> irrelevant -in all allegations against Turkey, that is-
Then why not launch an attack on the PKK forces that have killed people (I
would seriously doubt any Turkish governmental statistic--have any
independently-verified ones?), instead of anyone of Kurdish ethnicity who
lives east of Ankara? Or is the existence of the PKK justification enough
for killing all Kurds? They're all security threats?
> Terrible, as they are mostly true. We are not discussing our human
> rights record here, however.
Yes, because the people are not Turks, so they're clearly not human nor are
they deserving of human rights, right? Security threats are not human.
> the utter hubris in this accusation was laid bare by somebody else, so
> won't bother. And it must have been some alliance indeed with Germany to
> have taken in thousands of Jewish refugees, but never mind me. sidenote,
> sidenote.
Sidenote? Your country collaborated with the Nazis, fueling their war machine.
I never said that Turkey killed Jews....but neither did Armenians. So why are
you bringing it up?
> Genocide is not a mistake. It is delibarete attempt to exterminate a
> people out of racial prejudice. Nobody exterminates anybody because they
> are an inconveniency, as you suggest. Armenians and Turks have coexisted
> peacefully in the Empire before 1915. Armenians and Turks coexist
> peacefully in Turkey today. So what was it, a brief attack of xenofobia
> by the young Turks? come on. You may consider this qubbling over a fine
> point, it is exactly that point you are trying to smear us with.
Again, it's funny that whenever I criticize your goverment's actions 80 years
ago, you take it as a personal affront. As if I'm insulting you. You could
lambast the US government for the Japanese internment, enslavement of
Africans, genocide of native Americans, and I would agree with you. But I
bring up a piece of your history that the rest of the world understands as
true, and you take it as a personal offense.
If you are interested in seeing the type of facts that the rest of the world
has used to understand the Armenian Genocide, you should check out
www.cilicia.com
> and on admitting mistakes:
>
> > we've still
> > > > failed to acknowledge your genocide theory? Is hatred of Turks such
> > a great
> > > > part of your peoples' cultural identity?
> > >
> > > Is the complete lack of respect for our loss and our understandable
> > distrust
> > > of your government, and the willingness to gloss over major crimes of
> > > humanity a part of YOUR peoples' cultural identity. I would be afraid
>
> :)
> I see you have lived among us these years. Where did you obtain this
> opinion?
Same source as your accusation that hatred of Turks is part of the Armenian
cultural identity....
> Almost all -except the small minority of extremists no side can claim to
> lack - in Turkey accept the deportation. Almost all ın Turkey, when
> pushed a bit into the subject, admit that it was an ill-done policy to
> varying degrees -ranging from a necessary evil to a grave
> mistake-.(What? from the brainwashed unwashed? I must really be scrubbed
> clean to have dreamt this up
Okay this is new. Obviously I would object to anyone's contention that the
murder of women and children is "a necessary evil."
Interestingly, even some Germans, who have collectively admitted to the
Holocaust, think that it was a "necessary evil." about 25% of those polled a
few years ago thought that the Jews brought the Holocaust upon themselves. I
guess you would say this mirrors a pretty large portion of the Turkish
populace's sentiment.
> What makes them not admit to this readily is because accepting mistakes
> has got nothing to do with what you want. For you, we absolutely must be
> portraited as class 1 enemies of humanity, no less. And as I said,
> genocide is no mistake.
This is absolutely not true, and you know it. I've told you several times
already that acceptance of what happened and stopping the denial of what
really happened is all that I, and most Armenians, care about. I refuse to
let you paint me as some person who hates Turks, because this is not true.
> On the other hand, distrust of the Armennians in their sincerity in
> anything that concerns the past and us, HAS become a part of our
> cultural identity. We've had 75 years to learn it. Accusing all while
> denying all, the assasinations of tens of Turkish diplomats -btw jmaksf,
> what was that all about, an honest outpouring of bereavement or what,
> but oops there I dodge again.
Well, two wrongs do not make a right, and of course I would condemn the
killing of Turkish diplomats. There were a handful of them killed by a few
extremists, and over a million Armenians killed by official Ottoman policy,
so I'm not going to let you make an unreasonable parallel between the two.
> In my opinion, the Turkish govt. would have long ago declared that while
> no genocide, there had indeed been a terrible mistake -as to one degree
> or other this is the shared majority opinion over here as I stated
> before-, regardless of the mistake being the Ottomans' , regardless of
> your still-continuing evasion of your "sidenotes", if you had been able
> to convince us that reconciliation and acceptance was your sincere
> intent, not just a thin veil over malice.
This is nonsense. I think the reason Turkey refuses to acknowledge the truth
is that lawsuits and compensation would go along with it, and your country is
poor enough as it is. Turkey is much poorer than even post-war Germany.
> > > It is easy for you to dismiss this as a mere figment of historical
> > > > imagination, and to recite platitudes from literature
> >
>
> Is reciting platitutes your sole right? Crowing about how well
> documented your cause is, how it's all out there in documents for the
> world to cry out at, etc etc. Is it indeed so disturbing for you that
> for all the plain truth we can still do the same (but then again, our
> platitudes must obviously be forgeries)
Well, it's not just me that's 'crowing' about it. The sole voice for
historical revisionism in this case are Turks and those they've paid off to
lie for them. The same can be said for today's Serbs as well. But I've
already pointed out the obvious parallels between your nations.
> You've said how you can give my respect. You talk about facing up to the
> past. You care for my respect? Get off your high horse, stop as if you
> were slain angels or something. Stop dodging any "sidenotes". Stop as if
> the only dead were your own, stop insulting ours by calling them
> irrelevancies. Stop trying to heap the evil deeds done by both sides on
> a single head under a heinous crime. I can face the past, but it's
> useless if we don't face it together.
Let me make something absolutely clear for the last time: you are absolutely
wrong to contend that an insurgency among *some* Armenians in eastern
Anatolia would JUSTIFY the murder and deportation of over a million Armenians
across Ottoman lands. It's as ridiculous as some Germans' claim that the Jews
deserved it for collaborating with the Americans and Russians.
> > Christians and
> > > we're obligated to do so), and move on. It's water under the bridge
> > only
> > > when we both agree that it's water.
>
> water, yes. bile, no.
Good point.
KingARARAT
and their close, close allies like the Azeris deny that the Genocide
happened. >>>
Dear Jmaksf,
It is interesting how, before the disintegration of the Soviet Union,
Azerbaijan and the Central Asian nations were sympathetic towards the Armenian
Genocide, accepting it as a fact(which of course it was). I have seen photos of
Heydar Aliyev, today's beloved Azeri president and yesterday's KGB boss, laying
flowers at Tzitzernagabert, the Armenian Genocide Memorial Monument in Yerevan.
Today, Azerbaijan, backed by this same Aliyev, denies the Genocide. What a
pity!
KingARARAT
ARMENIAN NATION
Nevzat Akdemir
*admit* it or not to *admit* it, is a different matter, right?
Very slick.
Another Diaspora Armenian twist!
nevzat
ja...@bolmedia.com wrote:
> In article <722h62$sjb$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>,
> pipe...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
> >
> >
> > spider wrote:
> > >
> > > Piper, I am not sure you are really serious for giving this personality
> > > too much credit and accepting the genocide with a NightBar intellectual
> > > attitude. You must know that the so called genocide is a tool for these
> > > people. Their primary aim is to separate the eastern part of Turkiye
> > > and add it to the Armenia. They dont give a damn if there was really
> >
> > forgive me if my tone sounded to you that way. I have already commented
> > on this before on another post to jmaksf on this same thred. If the Armenians
> > want any reckognition they must prove the sincerity - of which I
> > strongly doubt - of their intentions.
>
> Is this what you really believe?
>
> That admitting to the Genocide will magically give Armenia land in eastern
> Turkey?
>
> Is Japan going to give land to the Chinese, Koreans and Filipinos?
> Is Germany handing over parts of Rhineland-Westfalia to Jews? All because they
> admitted to killing them?
>
> Tell me, Piper. What do YOU think Armenians' intentions are? And the rest of
> the world, for that matter, who know what your anscestors have done.
jma...@my-dejanews.com
kinga...@aol.com (KingARARAT) wrote:
> <<< it's interesting that only Turks
> and their close, close allies like the Azeris deny that the Genocide
> happened. >>>
>
>
> It is interesting how, before the disintegration of the Soviet Union,
> Azerbaijan and the Central Asian nations were sympathetic towards the Armenian
> Genocide, accepting it as a fact(which of course it was). I have seen photos
of
> Heydar Aliyev, today's beloved Azeri president and yesterday's KGB boss,
laying
> flowers at Tzitzernagabert, the Armenian Genocide Memorial Monument in
Yerevan.
> Today, Azerbaijan, backed by this same Aliyev, denies the Genocide. What a
> pity!
It is a shame. Didn't the mayor of Istanbul do the same recently? I read
something not too long ago saying that he visited the Armenian Genocide
Memorial Monument, and laid a wreath there. I wouldn't be surprised if this
man were immediately assassinated upon returning to his home city...
pipe...@my-dejanews.com
> > > Piper, I am not sure you are really serious for giving this personality
> > > too much credit and accepting the genocide with a NightBar intellectual
> > > attitude. You must know that the so called genocide is a tool for these
> > > people. Their primary aim is to separate the eastern part of Turkiye
> > > and add it to the Armenia. They dont give a damn if there was really
> >
> > forgive me if my tone sounded to you that way. I have already commented
> > on this before on another post to jmaksf on this same thred. If the
Armenians
> > want any reckognition they must prove the sincerity - of which I
> > strongly doubt - of their intentions.
>
> Is this what you really believe?
yes
> That admitting to the Genocide will magically give Armenia land in eastern
> Turkey?
no
> Tell me, Piper. What do YOU think Armenians' intentions are? And the rest of
you tell me. you are the one talking about "return of land". but I think
it is deeper than that.
I am telling you again here and I will not tire of repeating. I do not deny,
intend to rationalize, belittle or approve the massacre of Armenians in 1915.
Believe it or not ,I wish as much you that it had never happened. I would
even like to share your suffering, had it not been for
your peoples' constant appeal to make it appear like the genocide of
Jews, who didn't fight, or revolt, or kill -civilians, other than in
self defense-.
your complete lack of respect for our own civilian dead at the hands of
Armenian separatists, which are not even counted.
your aim to put the blame on the whole of Turkish people like the German
people who wholeheartedly cooperated with the Nazis. -or else why still
bring it up after the Ottomans are 75 years dead-,
and even demanding "ancestral land" from a country that was founded in
1923 and gave 2.5 million of her own dead in resistance to the very same
government that is responsible for the massacres.
What do you think? that we are a nation of Neo-Nazis who are after
Armenian blood? or did we wise up after we had our fill of blood in 1915
I am ready to listen and respect your opinions, but please
don't tell me about how I am brainwashed, because even if true, there is
nothing you can do to convince me that yours isn't stronger,
don't tell me about how you have the whole world's support, because you
don't -we wouldn't be having this argument if you did- and dreams don't
make reality, just tiresome reading.
don't tell me about the turkish attempt to destroy armenian historical
sites, because I said I don't know and am currently researching
regards
piper
pipe...@my-dejanews.com
>
> Well now, I think you have a misperception of the realities of the world.
>
> How about the other genocides of the world, are all recognized by the
> perpetrators? Do you know what is taught in Japanese schools on WW2 and the
> atrocities?
actually, I do, and that's the reason I gave it as an example. that is
why they didn't accept their war crimes readily. They couldn't have,
because it would be contrary to the very fabric of what they have been
taught about themselves and their history (if apologies are genuine, why
noty change their official history too?). No, they were forced to do so
by their neighbors -who have become tigers themselves- and the
international community. And I was saying, if we are indeed revising
historyas you folks claim, why can't the same community who brought
Japan to her knees do the same to us, if the so-called genocide was as
one-sided affair as you claim.
not
> allowed the Turkish people to evolve enough for such an occurence.
oddly, if it is true, it is just as valid for you people who haven't got
over your victim complex and started facing up to a little bit of what
you yourselves did. Then you would be astounded to the rate of our
evolution
> If your government "historians" cannot even depict Armenian historical sites
> accurately, then why would you believe the rest of the propaganda? What threat
I don't know, but I will get to the forum as soon as I learn something about
this. Please post some links as to what you are basing this allegation on.
(don't post the documents themselves)
Gaghjayan
>sites
>> accurately, then why would you believe the rest of the propaganda? What
>threat
>
>I don't know, but I will get to the forum as soon as I learn something about
>this. Please post some links as to what you are basing this allegation on.
>(don't post the documents themselves)
>
I posted the sign at Ani verbatim. I am sorry, but the internet does not
contain all the information of the world. You will have to travel the land to
see.
Of course, the "other" poster who claimed to have been to Ani many tiems
ignored this aspects of my postings and laid claim to "victory".
As an aside Piper, it is an oft repeated myth on the part of Turks that
Armenians have somehow been selective in recording history. It is a farce, just
another lie. Anything discussed on this list has been treated by "Armenian"
historians. So, using that as a basis for acceptance is just another deception.
Such comments are made by those who get their education on the web, apparently
the books themselves might burn their fingers at the touch.
Hypocrisies and inconsistencies abound, the question is whether it is
purposeful or misguided.
George Aghjayan
Gagh...@aol.com