Greece: Tourists Raped, Attacked
WolfWolf
A British woman has been raped and two holiday representatives sexually
assaulted in Rhodes.
An official at the British Embassy in Athens says the incidents, believed to
be the "first of the season", took place in Faliraki.
Donald Holder says a 27-year-old woman was raped in the resort. She is due
to fly back to Britain tomorrow.
He added two British holiday representatives, also based in Rhodes, were
badly beaten in a separate attempted rape, also in Faliraki.
ITV1 recently screened a series called Club Reps which centred on the
alcohol-fuelled antics of Britons visiting the resort.
Mr Holder says it is disturbing there had been three attacks in the same
place so early in the season.
He added Embassy figures show 26 British holiday makers were raped last year
in Greece.
"The holiday makers started coming only in the last fortnight or so but I
think that this is the first (rape) I have heard of (this year) in Greece
and all its islands," he said.
"It should be put in context as you will get the same reports coming out of
the Spanish costas."
He added many Greek locals in Rhodes had been upset by the Club Reps
programme, which they fear will promote "down market" tourism on the island.
"I am horrified to hear that it upset the locals because they are not
terribly interested in down-market tourism."
05/14/2002 09:20
PA
pyrsos27
Ο "WolfWolf" <em...@address.net> έγραψε στο μήνυμα
news:abrq2k$bbh$1...@suaar1ab.prod.compuserve.com...
> Holiday Britons in sex attacks
>
> A British woman has been raped and two holiday representatives sexually
> assaulted in Rhodes.
Who are you to talk? You Turks usually rape boys.
pyrsos27
pyrsos27
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
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WolfWolf
WolfWolf
"pyrsos27" <cz...@otenet.gr> wrote in message
news:abrsqs$61u$1...@usenet.otenet.gr...
How do you know? Have you been "raped" by a Turk? Did you enjoy it? Are you
looking now for a new "adventure"?
And why don't you look first at the known places in Pyreos??
WolfWolf
The European
pyrsos27
TURKEY GAY GUIDE
http://www.qrd.org/qrd/www/world/europe/turkey/guide.htm
The age of consent in Turkey is 18. There are no articles on homosexuality
in the law but vague references to public morals and public order. The
police has the legal right to take anyone who looks suspicious to the police
station for interrogation. The general crime level in big cities is among
the lowest in Europe. Nine milliion tourists are expected to visit the
country in 1996.
Turkey is geographically, politically, economically in Europe. More than 90%
of its population is muslim. The police has wide powers, and some fractions
in the police force has close ties with the radical nationalist right-wing
groups. Despite the lack of any organized gay bashing, gays have not been
allowed to come out and get organized in an open fashion. gay movements so
far have been underground movements. "International Christopher Street day"
(gay pride) festivities planned to take place in Istanbul in July 1993 was
first allowed, and then banned by the local government officials before
taking place. A similar attempt to organize a cultural week in September
1995 by Lambda Istanbul was not allowed on the grounds "of public morals".
Homosexuality was a rooted tradition in the era of Ottoman Empire which
lasted more than five centuries. It is known that some of the sultans had
homosexual affairs and public Turkish baths (hammams) were the common
meeting place among men. There were poets and musicians who were known to be
homosexual. These traditions lost their power with the westernization of
Turkey which came with the establishment of the Republic in 1923. But there
is a general acceptance towards effeminate male entertainers. For example
the most famous Turkish classical singer Zeki Muren is a latent, extremely
flamboyant gay person, and has been so since 1950's or Bulent Ersoy, who is
a very popular and has multi-million selling albums although being a
transexual.Turkey has a macho culture, and this is reflected in gay
attitudes: Traditionally, gays are divided into the active (laco) and the
passive (lubunya). However a more recent and a more westernized culture is
beginning to gain ground where no categorization is felt necessary.
ISTANBUL
With a population of 12 millions, hosts the most liberal and lively gay
scene in the country. It is a big attraction for the gays living in other
cities. we can say most of the regular bars, clubs and discos in Istanbul
are already mixed places where one can meet gays frequently. However, most
of the exclusively gay places are gathered around Taksim Square. Some
streets around Cihangir area have become places where transvestites and
transsexuals live and perform illegal prostitution. The latter places are
kept under close inspection by the police.
PHONE CODES
Area codes for European side : (0)212
Area code for Asian side : (0)216
GROUPS AND ORGANIZATIONS
With post office box (P.K) or private mail box (CC, MBE, MPK) addresses,
please do not mention the group names as these are mostly owned by private
people rather than the organizations themselves.
Lambda Istanbul: MBE 222, 80080 Istanbul
Gay and lesbian group of Istanbul, maintainer of this site, meeting every
Sunday at 6.30 pm.
Association for Protecting Prostitutes and Homosexuals:
6433 sok. 4-C Yali Mah, Semikler, Izmir
Phone : (0232) 36 22 289
B.E.T.: MPK 186,Eskisehir
Publishes a monthly bulletin
The Ministry of Human Rights, Ankara
Phone : (0312) 425 59 74, 419 01 43
For reporting gay rights violations, ask for the Law Department
MAGAZINES
...cins...: Lambda's free bulletin that issues in every two months.
B.E.T. Bulletin: M.P.K.194,Eskisehir. Free, underground, literary and
political magazine. Order by mail.
KAOS GL: ALI OZBAS, P.K. 53 Cebeci, Ankara. The first GL magazine,
underground, political, monthly. Subscription fee for 12 months : US $25. In
Istanbul, sold at Mephisto bookstore in Istiklal Street . 100 GL is also
available free with Kaos in every two months.
B: Beverages
D: Dancing
F: Food
G: Gay
GLM: Gay, Lesbian mixed
R: Rent boys
MA: Mixed Ages
RT: Rough Types
YC: Young Crowd
TV: Transvestite
TR: Transsexual
BARS,CLUBS,etc.
CLUB 14 (B D GL WE VS !)
24-04h Abdulhakhamit cad. Belediye Dukkanlari, No:14, Taksim
Phone : (212) 256 21 21. Operates an FM radio station radio 2019 at 90.6 MHz
Young crowd, lively atmosphere, good music and friendly staff.
5.KAT (FIFTH FLOOR) (B C R gl M !)
18-02h Siraselviler cad. Soganci sok. No:7, Taksim. Phone:(212) 293 37 74
(Close to German Hospital, ask for BILSAK) View of Bosphorus. Chic, stylish
and good food.
BARBAHCE (FIRST FLOOR) (B GL M)
(The same building with 5.KAT) Lively atmosphere, trendy place and busy at
weekends.
PRIVE (B D G)
24-04h Tarlabasi Bulvari 28,Taksim. Phone : (212) 235 79 99 Alternative to
Club 14, less trendy but very cruisy.
HAN CAFE (B G F MA)
09-02h Cumhuriyet cad. Taksim Square. Evenings and nights. Very cruisy. Back
bar has a lesbian barmaid.Lots of rent boys.
ROXY (B D gl f)
24-04h Siraselviler cad. Arslanyatagi sok. 9, Taksim. Phone: (212) 249 48 39
An ex-gay disco. Good concerts (jazzrock) throughout the week, very good
music, friendly staff.
HENGAME (B G tv r)
02-07h Istiklal cad. Sahne sok. 6, Balikpazari,Taksim
KEMANCI / MANDALA (B NG YP !)
Siraselviler cad.69, Taksim. Phone : (212) 245 30 48 Three floors each with
its own bars and live rock music. Top floor more gay.
1001 MARLYN (AYOR TV R B D S)
24-04h Siraselviler cad. Risk of being overcharged.
VAT 69 I/II (AYOR B D TV R S WE)
Istiklal cad. Imam Adnan Sok. 7,Taksim. Risk of being overcharged.
TEQUILA (AYOR TV B R)
Cumhuriyet cad. Taksim Square, 100 m.down from McDonald's
SAFAATHANE (B g)
Istiklal Street, Atlas Sinemasi Pasaji
Phone: (212) 251 22 45
DISCOS
g_LAB (B G l m YP ma) (new, opened in Junuary 2001)
10-04h Cumhuriyet Cad. 349/1, Harbiye, opposite side of Harbiye Military
Museum,
bus stop: Harbiye or metro station: Osmanbey (=first station after Taksim)
Engaged DJ's play different good musics from club to Turkish music
20&19 (B GL M D YP !)
01-06h Next to Club 14. The best dance music in the city. Latent gays, radio
station; Radio 2019, 90.6 . Very friendly and lively, young and famous
guests.
2020 (D NG m S SL)
01-07h Oto Sanayi, Maslak (approx. 15 km. from Taksim)
Phone : (212) 285 18 96 The biggest open air disco.
TREE DAYS (D b NG)
Talimhane, Taksim cad. Taksim Phone: (212) 253 23 27
Very popular disco with good music.
TELVE (B D GL WE VS !)
Istiklal Caddesi, in the passage opposite of Vakko. (More info coming soon)
CAFE/FAST FOOD RESTAURANTS
7/ELEVEN (f g YC)
Mecidiyekoy Square, evenings and nights.
BORSA (F G r SWC F)
09-24h Cumhuriyet cad. Taksim Square. Evenings and nights. Very cruisy.
BORSA (F g YC)
Istiklal cad.89,Taksim. Turkish fast food. The third floor. Very cruisy
HAN CAFE (B G F MA)
09-02h Cumhuriyet cad.Taksim Square. Evenings and nights. Very cruisy.
CAFE PIA (B g l m)
Istiklal cad. Bekar sok. Two floors, good food, chic and young gay crowd.
KAKTUS (f b glm)
Istiklal cad.Imam Adnan sok. 4,Taksim. Phone: (212) 249 59 79 Frequented by
artists.
RESTAURANTS
5.KAT (F B GLM)
Siraselviler cad. Soganci sok. 7,Taksim. International cuisine, good
food, view of Bosphorus. Closed on Sundays.
BARBAHCE (F B GLM)
In the same building with 5.KAT. Good food, stylish place.
BAMBI (F NG r)
Siraselviler cad. 20, Taksim. Doner kebab sandwiches. Late night crowd, low
prices.
ZENCEFIL
Istiklal cad. Kurabiye sok. 3, Taksim. (behind Fitas Movie Theatre)
Vegetarian food.
HOTELS/GUEST HOUSES
GEZI HOTEL (H N G)
Mete cad. 42, Taksim. Phone: (212) 251 74 30
Single US$ 50-75, double US$ 60-90
HOTEL MY FAIR (H g)
Abdulhakhamit cad. 54, Taksim. Phone: (212) 256 25 39
Friendly staff, Double US$ 30
PETEK HOTEL (H g)
Arap Cesme sok. 5, Kucukpazar,Unkapani. Cheap and clean. Rooms 1-4 persons.
Approx. DM 6 per person.
SHOPS/SERVICES
MOD
Atlas Pasaji 2.kat,Beyoglu. Second hand clothes of 60's and 70's style.
SEKER PORTAKALI
Atlas Pasaji 2.kat,Beyoglu. Very trendy, flamboyant clothing from gay
designer.
OUTDOOR
Gay outdoor group. Daily excursions for trekking, canoeing, etc.
Fax: (212) 256 68 18 Mail: MBE 113, Taksim,Istanbul 80096. Send fax or mail
to MBE 113.
BLUE MOVIES
GUNES (G RT MA)
Cakiraga mah. Kurkcubasi Kulhan sok. 5, Aksaray. Difficult to find, near
hotel and Disco Serandawich which is near McDonald's.
RUYA (g)
Istiklal cad. 128, Taksim. Action is possible in the back seats.
SAUNA/GAY BATHS
AQUARIUM (G sa pi wh R)
Istiklal cad. Ahududu sok. 29, Taksim 24h. Action allowed. Free access
rooms.
Web Site: http://www.members.tripod.com/aquarius73
CIHANGIR SAUNA
9-21h Cukurcuma, Altipatlar sok. 14, Taksim. Clean. Reserved rooms. Be
discreet.
HAMAMS
CESME HAMAMI (G MA OG msg)
12-22h Voyvoda cad.(Persembe Pazari) yeni Cesme sok. Karakoy
CUKURCUMA HAMAMI (G sa b pi msg MA)
15-22h Cukurcuma cad.57, Siraselviler, Taksim. Action allowed.
KOSK HAMAMI (g MA msg)
13-22h Catalcesme sok. (near Alaykosku) Sultanahmet.
PARK HAMAMI (AYOR G RT sa msg)
Divanyolu, Dr.Emin Pasa sok. (opposite Hotel Petrol) Sultanahmet
SEX SHOPS
EROS CENTER SEX MARKET (gl)
Kutlu sok. 41-43, Uygur ishani kat:1. Gumussuyu, Taksim.
Phone: (212) 249 07 01, 293 19 93. Gay videos, lubricant, sex toys,etc.
Ask for Aksaray and Kadikoy branches.
LIPS & DELTA I (glm)
9-21.30h Sehit Asim cad. 4/1, Koc Han. Beasiktas.
Phone order: (212) 227 74 10, 227 18 80 all kinds of sex toys.
LIPS & DELTA II (glm)
Namik Kemal cad. Firat Ishani 1/8, Aksaray.
Phone order: (212) 589 95 25, 589 64 12
MARGINAL CENTER (gl)
Rihtim cad. Resit Efendi sok. 32/1, Ak Ishani Kat:2, Kadikoy.
Phone: 418 34 88
MAIL ORDER
COLOR VIDEO MARKET
Cemil Topuzlu cad. 47/3, Ciftehavuzlar, Bostanci. Phone: (216) 302 11 83
EPAS (glm)
CC 33 80303, Mecidiyekoy. Phone: (212) 533 33 34 Sex toys,condoms.etc.
FANTASIA (glm sm tv)
PK 460 80224 Sisli. Phone: (212) 234 05 14 Pornographic and erotic videos,
each 20$.
ROYAL LTD. (glm)
CC 58 80303, Mecidiyekoy. Phone: (212) 418 65 32, 418 65 33 Sex toys,
condoms, etc.
BOOKSHOPS
MEPHISTO (NG g)
Istiklal cad. Taksim. Kaos GL available.
PANDORA (NG g)
Istiklal cad. Buyukparmakkapi sok. 3, taksim. Phone: (212) 245 16 67
Books from abroad orderable.
HELP WITH THE PROBLEMS
AIDS INFO LINE
Association For Family Planning. Phone : (312) 435 20 47, 435 20 48
AIDS PREVENTION SOCIETY
Vakif Gureba Hospital, Vatan cad. Aksaray. Phone :(212) 635 12 09
Consultation Unit: Ortakoy, Semtevi Dereboyu, Refik Fenmen sok. No:19 Kat:4
Phone: (212) 260 86 78
MRS.AYSE KAYHAN
Valikonagi cad. Poyracik sok. 36/1, Nisantasi. Phone: (212) 230 50 23,
296 16 39. Psychological counselling for all sexual orientations.
PROF. SAHIKA YUKSEL
Bozkurt sok. 7, Cihangir. Positive theraphy for gays either individually or
in groups.
HEALTH SERVICE
There is no anonymous AIDS test in Turkey yet but, in most of the private
clinics and major hospitals, taking a HIV test is possible without showing
any IDs, giving a false name.
AMERIKAN HASTANESI
Nisantasi. Phone : (212) 231 40 50 Private hospital. HIV tests.
ISTANBUL CAPA TIP FAKULTESI
Dermatology or Venerology department. Phone : (212) 524 54 87 HIV testing.
(Name required but no IDs are checked) Fee is equivalent of about US$ 5.
Psychiatry Department, Psychotheraphy and Psychoneurosis Unit.
Phone: (212) 534 00 00 Counselling on sexual identity problems.
SPORTS CLUBS/FITNESS CENTERS
FLASH GYM (g)
Istiklal cad. Aznavur Pasaji 4, Taksim. Phone: (212) 249 53 47
GOLD GYM (g)
Buyukdere cad. 34, Mecidiyekoy
VAKKAROMA (gl)
Vakkaroma Center, Taksim. (Basement of The Marmara Hotel) Phone: (212) 251
15 71 Expensive
CRUISING AREAS
All the cruising areas are AYOR because of some people who will try to take
your money introducing themselves as policemen during or after the relation.
Homosexual acts are not a crime in Turkey. But the best way is chhosing your
partner carefully. You can trust people who accept themselves as gay openly.
Taksim Park, the Bosphorus side. day and night.
Along Istiklal Street.
Around McDonald's in Taksim Square
Fatih Park, Fatih. (High Risk of police raid)
Kadikoy Park on the coastal side,evenings and nights.
Galeria shopping mall, cafes around the ice skating pist, Bakirkoy.
Ragetta (Bakirkoy coast) the sidewalk cafes and the cafes on the terrace.
Ortakoy, around the bars on the coast.
The sound and light show in Blue Mosque during summer. (21h)
Akmerkez shopping mall, Etiler.
ANKARA
KILIM BAR (B G L D)
The first and the exclusive GL club in Ankara.Sili meydani, next to Airport
Disco, Ankara.
NO NAME (B G)Cevre sok. (Near barlar cad.)
Z BAR (B GLM )
Sakarya caddesi
NUANS
Sakarya caddesi
THE KLUB
Eskisehir yolu 5. km.
PIYASA
Cankaya semti
SECTION
Nene Hatun
HAMAMS, BLUE MOVIES, CRUISING AREAS
Genclik parki
Guven park, Kizilay
Efes sinemasi, Cep sinemasi,
Sengul Hamami
KAS (ANTALYA)
MAVI BAR (B g)
Opposite the port. 22-02h. Cheap beer. Good rock music.
RED POINT (B D gl)
Opposite the port 23-03h. Good dancing, music, chic, lively atmosphere.
ALWAYS (B D GLM)
Opposite the harbour. 24-04h. Good dancing, music, friendly staff, cruising,
trendy place.
ESKISEHIR
PICOLO BAR
Baglar caddesi (22.00 - 01.00)
BLUE MOVIES
Asri Sinemasi
HAMAMS
Gurcanli Erkekler Hamami
BULLETIN
B.E.T. Bulteni MPK 194, Eskisehir.
GROUPS
B.E.T. Toplulugu MPK 194, Eskisehir.
HEALTH SERVICES
Osmangazi Universitesi Tip Fakultesi Egitim ve Uygulama Hastanesi
PSYCHOLOGICAL CONSULT
Osmangazi Universitesi Tip Fakultesi Hastanesi Psikiyatri Poliklinigi
Mr. Doc.Dr. Cem Kaptanoglu
CRUISING AREAS
Adapazari Parki
Gar Parki
This page is maintained by Lambda, Istanbul
WolfWolf
WolfWolf
I am a gay resident of Athens and I would like to inform and report to
all gays all over the world about the lately situation of gaylife in
Athens.
Athens has lately become a dangerous place for gaypeople. The gay
bars are the safest place for a gay to go.
A lot of Murders and robberies of gaypeople had happened by
Albanians or other "suspected" human elements that these two last years
had illegally moved into Greece.
I am not a racist at all. I am speaking for a dangerous minority of
Albanians , Romanians,Iraqis,Kurds and ex-soviet Union comers.All the
other people that moved in greece lately don't cause any disturbance.
Gay people visiting Athens must be careful of robbery or even murder -
most of these people carry a knife- especially during the night.
Avoid parks or other dark places.
My regards ,
pyrsos27
pyrsos27
Lambda Istanbul is a liberation group for gay, lesbian, bisexual, and
transgendered
people in Turkey. It has a stable membership of around 100.
Lambda, Istanbul is the largest queer liberation group in Turkey. It was
formed by a
small number of gays and lesbians as a result of a police ban on Christopher
Street
Day celebrations in 1993. Since then, Lambda, Istanbul has grown in
membership and
aims to raise its voice on behalf of the gay communities in Istanbul.
Homosexuality is not a criminal offence in Turkey, but some articles of the
highly
flexible police regulations can be used very easily to ban meetings and
demonstrations
on so-called public morality grounds. In 1995 and 1996 Lambda, Istanbul
planned
activity weeks which would have included gay and lesbian themed films,
panels discussions,
and exhibitions. On both ocassions, they were banned by the police and the
Governor of
Istanbul, who claimed they were against public morals.The organizing
committee was
advised by police not to make any further attempts as the Turkish society
was not
yet ready for the visibility of homosexuality!
Despite this pressure and opposition, we are still carrying out our
projects:
Our eighth issue of our bi-monthly magazine is out in June1997, it is
available in
alternative bookstores in Istanbul and in Ankara.
We are on air with a weekly one hour GL radio program on Acik Radio since
May 1996.
It is the first GL program in Turkey's history and has enabled us to reach a
greater
number of people.
In collaboration with the AIDS Prevention Society in Turkey we have prepared
the first
Safe Sex brochure addressing gay men. The current objective of the AIDS
Prevention
subgroup of the group is to increase the availability of water-based
lubricants as
well as safe condoms. A safe sex hot-line project is in process as well.
Despite the serious work we do, we are all volunteers, who come together
determined
to keep on working against our society's prejudices, homophobia and Turkey's
anti-democratic law and regulations.
You can contact Lambda Istanbul at:
Snail mail: PK 103 Goztepe, Istanbul Turkey
Fax: +90 212 224-3792 (Talk first to ask for connection to fax)
Email: tur...@qrd.org
Radio program: Istanbul, Acik Radyo, 94.9 FM, Monday night 00.00-01.00
Call +90 (212) 296 2389 (4 lines) to go on air the program.
Please send us your comments, contributions, recent news items,
and your requests for contact info.
Regards,
WolfWolf
WolfWolf
I lived in Greece for several years and returned in 1985. Although I
have not been back since then, the laws and general treatment are the
same if my contacts there can be trusted.
This is a long article, because in addition to the specific legal points,
I also deal with how gays are treated *in practice*, and how Greek
society perceives homosexuality. This is not strictly a political/legal
matter, but it gives insight into why things are as they are. I deal
with the legal aspects first; if you aren't interested in the rest you
can ignore it.
I also don't say anything about lesbians because I didn't have much
experience with them. They did not go to bars (except one woman I met,
who had some good gay friends). There was one bar that was reputedly a
lesbian bar, but I never saw many people there. This could have changed
by now.
Greece is a country that until recently in its history was mostly an
agrarian area. In what is now Greece, there was no urban greek culture
for over 500 years; the major greek urban centers were in Turkey (Izmir,
Istanbul) when Greece put itself together as a country piece by piece as
the Ottoman empire collapsed. So although Athens is a city of over 4000
people, it is in many ways a collection of villages, and most Athenians
keep contact with their villages and return frequently. The fact that it
is a country that is 98% Eastern Orthodox, and which spent 500 years under
the Turks says a lot about modern Greek culture. Homosexuality is
perceived in terms of acts, not as any kind of identity as we know it.
Typically people take part in many different sexual acts, and as long as
they are not talked about, and are not made public thereby shaming the
family, they are not of much consequence, and gossip can go both ways, so
even though someone might be known to do such and such, the general way in
the villages was "live and let live," because everyone had their own
skeletons in their closets too. As long as one marries and has kids,
fulfilling these obligations, people just don't ask (although they
definitely do talk!) But the idea of proudly proclaming onself to be a
"homosexual" is rather bizarre to most folks.
> 1) Gay Rights law?
No specific gay rights law. There is no law against homosexual acts.
However, there is also no law specifically protecting a gay person from
discrimination.
> 2) Same-sex relations legal/illegal?
sexual relations between consenting adults are legal at age 17.
> 3) public pride celebrations?
Not sure about this one...there are two gay magazines. The older of the
two is AMFI, put out by A.K.O.E. (Movement for the Liberation of
Homosexuals of Greece). When I was there, AKOE was not a particularly
strong group. It was in the throes of a fight with one member, "Paola,"
a former transvestite (who published another magazine called "kraximo"
(scream - here specifically referring to yelling a public "outing" on the
street). The fight was about whether or not Paola should be allowed to
bring pickups into the AKOE offices. She was not allowed to of course,
but she didn't accept it, broke the windows and locks, etc. The last
time I tried to write to AKOE, they had moved and given no forwarding
address. Their activities were: publication of AMFI, weekly discussion
groups, a gay hotline (often called by men looking for company), and
frequent rebuttals to homophobic newspaper articles in the Greek press.
> 4) gay marriage?
No.
> 5) gay adopion/parenting/artificial insemination?
No
> 6) immigration issues?
As homosexuality is not illegal in Greece, it isn't an issue unless
someone wants it to be; they would trump up another charge if they wanted
you out of the country.
--
Although the laws themselves as they affect homosexuals are not
oppressive, in practice life is not so free. Modern Greek society is
extremely homophobic, and adheres to the typical Mediterranean/Mid-eastern
concepts about what a homosexual is. In this society (and in Turkey, Arab
countries, etc) there is no exact concept of "homosexual" as we use it.
There is the "Poustis" (the passive one in anal intercourse) and the
"Kolombaras" (the active one). To understand the implications of this,
one has to have an idea of Greek "honor" (filotimo). This is analogous
to "machismo" in latino cultures, as they understand the word, not as
"just being 'masculine'" as it is interpreted here. Basically, one keeps
one's masculine honor at the expense of another. As sex has to have an
object, and sex is viewed usually as a "conquest." A man who willingly
"allows himself to be conquered by another man" is giving up his filotimo
willingly. This makes him the object of derision. On the other hand the
"kolombaras" is in a way "super masculine" because he not only conquers
women, but other men as well. I heard straight guys approving with
wonder a known "kolombaras," saying basically "he can f... anything."
Most greeks, when they hear the greek translation of "homosexual,"
(omofilofilos), think "poustis." Therefore you will find many men who
will take the "active" role, who will not identify as gay. To many
Greeks, gay or straight, the idea of two "real men" in a relationship
where one isn't "playing the woman" is rather alien. This is changing
though with more contact with people from the U.S. and western Europe.
Police regularly go into bars and harass patrons. The usual method is to
ask for identification (which all must carry in Greece). Usually they
will find a few people who forgot to take their id card, and under the
pretext of investigating some alleged crime, they take them in to the
station. This happend to me once, the alleged crime was that a man had
taken another man from that bar up to the forest on Lycavitos hill and
robbed and killed him. Eight of us were arrested; 6 Greeks, me, and an
employee of the Brazillian embassy. Each of us was individually accused,
asked if we did it, and when we said "no," the officer asked "well who
did, me?" We then had to stay in the station till 5:00 while they called
in to the central station at Mesogeio, to see if we had any records.
Conveniently it came in at 5:00 a.m. (we were arrested at about 11:00).
It later turned out that there was a man beat up on the hill, he was an
English tourist, his assailant was from Ghana, the man was injured, but
not killed. One of the people in our group was outspoken and urged
everyone to report this action, as it was unconstitutional and illegal,
but nobody would - I because it could get me deported, the Brazillian
because it could cost him his job, and the other Greeks because the
police would likely contact their families and employers. Many men I met
in the bars there, especially those from rural areas, were constantly on
edge at the thought of being reported. Some of this fear was from
earlier days when a man caught in a gay situation would have that on his
record, and printed on his government ID card which one has to use all
the time. Many were unaware that this practice had ended.
Before there were any bars (the bar is not a Greek tradition), there were
certain "tavernas" - restaurants, that were known to have a gay clientele,
and also much anonymous contact. Gays met gays mostly through discrete
groups of friends. There were such a marginalized group of people that
they had their own elaborate slang - not just a few phrases, but a whold
"gay language" with differences in basic verbs, grammar, etc. This
language is called "kalliarda," and is documented by sociologist Ilias
Petropoulos in a book on the subject. (His book, by the way, was banned
in greece for several years.) It has a vocabulary of several *thousand*
words, and often greeks who hear it will not recognize it as a language
they are familiar with. A very large percentage of the vocabulare is
comprised of Romany (gypsy) loanwords. Nowadays not many younger gays
really are fluent in kalliarda, but know many key phrases and words. An
example:
The phrase "I like the guy sitting two seats down from me" =
(greek)
Mou aresei poly o paradhiplanos
(kalliarda)
Latsevo ton apokate sto bout.
It is actually a very rich argot, with little poems and songs, its own
curses, etc., and was the way homosexual men could talk about what they
wanted to without being found out.
The general idea of the public is that homosexuals spread diseases, and
conspire to recuit young boys. To be honest, I did meet many more
pederasts there than I did here, though they were not any kind of
majority. I also met several young gay men who were attracted only to
men in their 40s or older. I believe this is in part because of the
general attitude toward sex as a stronger vs weaker relationship, and
also because until recently, there was no way two men could realistically
have an open relationship. The press is constantly referring to
homosexuals as "marginal types." Many young gays have a high degree of
hate for themselves, and many commit suicide. A gay friend of mine there
(who himself attempted 3 times to kill himself before he accepted his
sexuality) told of a friend who was very loved in the neighborhood. This
boy killed himself, and his suicide note said "there was no other way. I
am homosexual." My friend was devastated; his mother told him "A dog
doesn't deserve your pity. Better that he cleansed society of himself,
otherwise he would go out and make other little boys like himself."
There is also much transvestitism. This is not usually (there are
exceptions) a thing done for performance or "for fun," as in the west,
most transvestites there are prostitutes and work in a couple of
well-known areas. Paola told me that a large percentage of her patrons
were "straight" acting men who wanted to be the passive partner, but
could not imagine themselves actually with a man, or consider themselves
"homosexuals."
Things are changing in Greece however. The first time I was there, the
only meeting places for gay men other than parks and urinals were in the
Plaka; the old section of Athens -- mainly a tourist district.
When I returned in '83, there was only one left there, and it later closed.
The
"gay" district is now Kolonaki, a "chic" area of Athens. In 1985, there
were only about 5 bars in Athens; now there are easily twice that many.
Many younger Greek gays complained often about the roll playing that was
so prevalent in Greek gay life, as did the Greeks who had lived outside
the country. Gay life as an actual visible phenomenon is turning from
something "brought in by foreign tourists" to something possible for the
average Greek man.
pyrsos27
pyrsos27
> GREECE
>
> I lived in Greece for several years and returned in 1985.
I doubt you lived in Greece, we would have deported your black ass back to
Turkey in no time where you could enjoy the company of your fellow
butt-buddies.
pyrsos27
YOELK
Wow, what a way to make a holiday.
How many turists from other countries were raped there as well?
But these stats are really useless without knowing total number of turists
...
-------
YOELK
WolfWolf <em...@address.net> wrote in message
news:abrq2k$bbh$1...@suaar1ab.prod.compuserve.com...
D Monte
> http://www.qrd.org/qrd/world/europe/greece/
>
> I am a gay resident of Athens and I would like to inform and report to
> all gays all over the world about the lately situation of gaylife in
> Athens.
> Athens has lately become a dangerous place for gaypeople. The gay
> bars are the safest place for a gay to go.
Check the following:
news:<c0c6feba.01102...@posting.google.com>...
aphrikanos
"WolfWolf" <em...@address.net> wrote in message news:<abrq2k$bbh$1...@suaar1ab.prod.compuserve.com>...
astron
12 million tourists last year . Is the incidence increased when compared
to the general population ?
This idiot thinks that tourists are somehow " immune " to crimes that
may afflict the general population .
When you look at things in perspective , you will see that Greece is the
safest country in the EU . Most crimes are committed by illegal economic
immigrants , whose criminal records in their home countries is hard to
check . Most of the culprits are also muslims . This is a statistical
fact in Greece .
Every year thousands of Turks run across the border fro a better life in
Greece .
Do you know how many Greeks run across the border for a better life in
Turkey each year ?
ANSWER : 0
This is the test of which country is at fault.
Turks regard Greece as an enemy , and are planning an attack ; still ,
they dream of a better life there .
Go figure .......!!
Robbie
astron <ast...@bigpond.com.au> wrote in message
news:3CE3C62F...@bigpond.com.au...
> When you look at things in perspective , you will see that Greece is the
> safest country in the EU .
Safest for what?
> Most crimes are committed by illegal economic
> immigrants , whose criminal records in their home countries is hard to
> check . Most of the culprits are also muslims . This is a statistical
> fact in Greece .
Is it? OK...post your stats. that 'most crimes are committed by illegal
economic immigrants' and that 'most of the culprits are muslims'.
astron
Sure . According to Greek Stats ( they have been released to the public
, I only read about it a while ago ), illegals number 1 million . They
have an overwhelming propensity to violent crime , and most of the
increase in crime(especially violent , drug related post 1980) is
attributed to them .Most are muslim.
The main reason for the abnormal increase in crime in Greece is due to
them . Any Greek will tell you that .
Now , post the stats that this ISN'T the case . Can you ?
Robbie
> Robbie wrote:
> >
> > astron <ast...@bigpond.com.au> wrote in message
> > news:3CE3C62F...@bigpond.com.au...
> >
> > > When you look at things in perspective , you will see that Greece is
the
> > > safest country in the EU .
> >
> > Safest for what?
> >
> > > Most crimes are committed by illegal economic
> > > immigrants , whose criminal records in their home countries is hard to
> > > check . Most of the culprits are also muslims . This is a statistical
> > > fact in Greece .
> >
> > Is it? OK...post your stats. that 'most crimes are committed by illegal
> > economic immigrants' and that 'most of the culprits are muslims'.
>
> Sure . According to Greek Stats ( they have been released to the public
> , I only read about it a while ago ), illegals number 1 million .
That isn't relevant.
Post your stats. that 'most crimes are committed by illegal
economic immigrants' and that 'most of the culprits are muslims'.
> They
> have an overwhelming propensity to violent crime , and most of the
> increase in crime(especially violent , drug related post 1980) is
> attributed to them .Most are muslim.
>
> The main reason for the abnormal increase in crime in Greece is due to
> them . Any Greek will tell you that .
Any ignorant will tell you this.
> Now , post the stats that this ISN'T the case . Can you ?
You haven't posted any stats yet. Instead you have indulged in the usual
xenophobic trash that masquerades as fact.
Your assertion - you support it with evidence.
WolfWolf
And how many of them have been brought inside your country by Greek police,
for good money, as repeatedly reported by the Greek press, at least by those
newspapers which are still free???
How many Greek police have been caught for other crimes???
And how many remained undiscovered??
Any evidence from your stats about that???
WolfWolf
The European