LATIFE HANIM VE HOMOSEKSUELLIK...
ibrahim ethem guloglu
Murat Ataman (ata...@nevada.edu) wrote:
: Yaniliyorsun Ibrahim..
: Ataturk hakkinda Riza Nur gibi hicbir referansi olmayan, ve referans
: kabul edilmeyen bir kisinin yazdiklarindan sonuca varma, sonra sanabaska
: referanslar gosterilir (Turan Dursun, Salman Rustu, daha baskalari, etc...)
Dr. Riza Nur kimdir, Murat?
Kendisi II. Mesrutiyet'ten itibaren mebusluk yapmistir. Tarihcidir.
Uluslarasi heyetlerde, anlasmalarin imzalanmasinda rol oynamis, gorev
yapmistir. Lozan'in ikinci adamidir. TBMM'de de mebusluk yapmistir.
Ilk Maarif Vekilimiz olmus, daha sonra Sihhat ve Ictimai Mavenat
Vekilligi de yapmistir. Nasil hic bir referansi olmadigini soylersin?..
Kaldi ki M.Kemal'in homoseksuelliginden sadece kendisi degil; Irfan Orga,
H.C.Armstrong, Lord Kinross gibi arastirmacilarda kitaplarinda bahsederler.
Biz nasil saydigin yazarlarin yazilarini gecenlere saatlerce cevap
yetistirmege ugrasiyorsak madem olay bu sekilde cereyan
etmemistir, dogrusunu yazin...
Dr. Riza Nur 1992, s: 314-315
Birgun bir teblig-i resmi: Mustafa Kemal Latife'yi bosamis. Bunu da
Hey'et-i Vekile karari ile yapmis. Bu Kanun-u Medeni'ye mugayirdi.
Bosanmak, iki tarafin rizasiyla, veya onun mucip sebebi mahkeme hukmu ile
olacakti. Hey'et-i Vekile, adliye kanun ve mahkemelerinin ustune cikmis
ve vahidulcalip olarak karar vermis. Al iste, Mustafa Kemal'in kanuna
riayeti...Bir Kanun-u Medeni yapti, bugun iptida kendi bozuyor. Hem
aleme ilan suretiyle...Ismet de bunu yapiyor...O, ne yapmaz? Tek mevkide
dursun, bunun icin cinayetler, katliamlar yapiyor da, bu bir sey mi?
Kanunen Latife hala onun karisidir...
Latife Istanbul'a geldi. Son zamanda haremimi aramiyordu. Mevhibe ile iyi
idi. Refikamin Mevhibe ile muhaberesi de kesilmisti. Latife simdi,
Istanbul'a gelince, derhal refikami istedi. Refikam gitti. Ona bir takim
muhim seyler soylemis, bosanma vak'asini anlatmis. "Doktor gelsin, ona
muhim havadislerim var" demis.
Anlasildigina gore bosanma vak'asindan iki-uc gun evvel Latife kardesi
Ismail ile haremi Sureyya Pasa'nin kizi Melahat Ankara'ya gitmislerdi.
Cankaya'da misafir olmuslar. O vakit Mustafa Kemal'in yaninda katip
sifatiyla Halit Ziya'nin oglu Vedad vardi. Guzel tuysuz bir cocuk. Bir
aksam uzeri karanlik cokerken Ismail, Melahat balkona cikmislar.
Bakmislar Vedad, Mustafa Kemal'i agacin dibinde yapiyor. Latife'yi
cagirmislar. O da gormus. Bir kiyamettir kopmus. Latife Mustafa Kemal'e
"Herseyini gordum, hepsine tahammul ettim. Artik buna edemem." demis.
Gazi (!) savusmus, Ismet'in evine gitmis. "Bu kariyi simdi bosayacagim"
demis. Ismet sabahleyin erkenden Hey'et-i Vekile'yi toplamis. Talaka
[bosanmaya] karar vermisler (!). Latife'yi Ismet alip trene koymus.
Trende teselli etmek istemis, Latife ona "Sus, sus! Ismet Pasa! Ismet
Pasa! Sen ona bir gun dalkavukluk etme seni benden daha rezil eder. Hep
aleti sensin." demis. Neden sonra birgun Ankara'da Ismet'e Latife'yi
gordugumu soyledim. Yuzume bakti, "Bir facia oldu" dedi. Halbuki Latife
en ziyade Ismet'e kiziyordu. "Bunlarin butun sebebi Ismet'tir" diyordu.
-------
Ibrahim
-------
al...@lehigh.edu
oglu) writes:
>
>Murat Ataman (ata...@nevada.edu) wrote:
>
>: Yaniliyorsun Ibrahim..
>: Ataturk hakkinda Riza Nur gibi hicbir referansi olmayan, ve referans
>: kabul edilmeyen bir kisinin yazdiklarindan sonuca varma, sonra sanabaska
>: referanslar gosterilir (Turan Dursun, Salman Rustu, daha baskalari, etc...)
>
> Dr. Riza Nur kimdir, Murat?
>
> Kendisi II. Mesrutiyet'ten itibaren mebusluk yapmistir. Tarihcidir.
> Uluslarasi heyetlerde, anlasmalarin imzalanmasinda rol oynamis, gorev
> yapmistir. Lozan'in ikinci adamidir. TBMM'de de mebusluk yapmistir.
> Ilk Maarif Vekilimiz olmus, daha sonra Sihhat ve Ictimai Mavenat
> Vekilligi de yapmistir. Nasil hic bir referansi olmadigini soylersin?..
>
> Kaldi ki M.Kemal'in homoseksuelliginden sadece kendisi degil; Irfan Orga,
> H.C.Armstrong, Lord Kinross gibi arastirmacilarda kitaplarinda bahsederler.
Lord Kinross kitabinin neresinde oyle birsey diyor? Bana bir
yazsana.
Alp Bagriacik
...................................................
: Alp Bagriacik : :
: Lehigh University : al...@lehigh.edu :
: 39 University Dr : (610) 866 59 99 :
: Box Number: A135 : (908) 619 10 69 :
al...@lehigh.edu
oglu) writes:
>
>Murat Ataman (ata...@nevada.edu) wrote:
>
>: Yaniliyorsun Ibrahim..
>: Ataturk hakkinda Riza Nur gibi hicbir referansi olmayan, ve referans
>: kabul edilmeyen bir kisinin yazdiklarindan sonuca varma, sonra sanabaska
>: referanslar gosterilir (Turan Dursun, Salman Rustu, daha baskalari, etc...)
>
> Dr. Riza Nur kimdir, Murat?
>
> Kendisi II. Mesrutiyet'ten itibaren mebusluk yapmistir. Tarihcidir.
> Uluslarasi heyetlerde, anlasmalarin imzalanmasinda rol oynamis, gorev
> yapmistir. Lozan'in ikinci adamidir. TBMM'de de mebusluk yapmistir.
> Ilk Maarif Vekilimiz olmus, daha sonra Sihhat ve Ictimai Mavenat
> Vekilligi de yapmistir. Nasil hic bir referansi olmadigini soylersin?..
>
> Kaldi ki M.Kemal'in homoseksuelliginden sadece kendisi degil; Irfan Orga,
> H.C.Armstrong, Lord Kinross gibi arastirmacilarda kitaplarinda bahsederler.
> yetistirmege ugrasiyorsak madem olay bu sekilde cereyan
> etmemistir, dogrusunu yazin...
>
> Dr. Riza Nur 1992, s: 314-315
>
> Birgun bir teblig-i resmi: Mustafa Kemal Latife'yi bosamis. Bunu da
> Hey'et-i Vekile karari ile yapmis. Bu Kanun-u Medeni'ye mugayirdi.
> Bosanmak, iki tarafin rizasiyla, veya onun mucip sebebi mahkeme hukmu ile
> olacakti. Hey'et-i Vekile, adliye kanun ve mahkemelerinin ustune cikmis
> ve vahidulcalip olarak karar vermis. Al iste, Mustafa Kemal'in kanuna
> riayeti...Bir Kanun-u Medeni yapti, bugun iptida kendi bozuyor. Hem
> aleme ilan suretiyle...Ismet de bunu yapiyor...O, ne yapmaz? Tek mevkide
> dursun, bunun icin cinayetler, katliamlar yapiyor da, bu bir sey mi?
> Kanunen Latife hala onun karisidir...
Lord Kinross'u okumayip Riza Nur'a tam guvendigin belli. Kinross kitabinda
bu olaydan bahseder ve derki, "Ataturk bati tipi bir evlilik yapti,
ayrilirken bir dogulu gibi, "karisinin rizasi olmadan bosandi. Bunu iki
hafta sonra olsa yapamazdi, cunku medeni kanun iki hafta sonra cikti."
Gordugun gibi Kinross bosanmanin medeni kanundan once oldugunu soyler.
Bence Ataturk'un bu tip bosanmasi yalnis, seriatcilara yakisacak geri
kafali bir uygulama. Ben bunlari sadece senin elindekio Riza Nur'un
yalnisligini kanitlamak icin yaziyorum.
Alp Bagriacik
Hakan Doganer
In a previous article, sak...@dorsai.org (ibrahim ethem guloglu) says:
>
>Murat Ataman (ata...@nevada.edu) wrote:
>
>: Yaniliyorsun Ibrahim..
>: Ataturk hakkinda Riza Nur gibi hicbir referansi olmayan, ve referans
Yav Riza Nur'un kendisi referans zaten... Adam Kemal'le kadeh
tokusturmus cilingir sofralarinda, ozel doktorlugunu yapmis
(hatta idrarinda gonokok tespit ettigini de yaziyor Hatirat'inda;
gonokok cinsel iliskiyle gecer), Rusya'ya gidip Stalin'le gorusup
bir kac yuzbin altinla donmus, Lozan'a gonderilmis, Kemal'in
hukumetinde iki defa bakanlik yapmis.. Daha bu adamin referansa
ihtiyaci olur mu?.. Kendisi referans adamin...
ibrahim ethem guloglu
>Bence Ataturk'un bu tip bosanmasi yalnis, seriatcilara yakisacak geri
> kafali bir uygulama.
Bu konuda tamamen mutabikiz... Her kelimene kalpten katiliyorum.
M.Kemal'in geri kafali bir sekilde bosandigi hususunda yerden goge kadar
haklisin! Zaten Muslumanlara da boyle bosanma emredilmemistir. (Musluman
olmadigi ve Kemalizm seriatinin kurucusu oldugu icin kendisini bu yuzden
mazur gormek lazim)
Seriatci dedigin siradan Muslumanlarin bu sekilde bosandigini sana kim
soyledi?..
Neyse, sana isin dogrusunu anlatayim...
Bu tip, yani hayiz zamaninda yahut temiz iken alakayi birden kesen
bosanmaya bid'i (cirkin, gunah olan) talak denir.
Bosanmak hos bir sey degil; fakat baska yol kalmamissa Islamin emir
niteligindeki tavsiyesi sudur: Kur'an-i Kerim'de Alemlerin Rabbi (Talak
suresi, 1. ve 2. ayet) muminlerin eslerinden iddetleri icinde (adetten
temiz olduklari sirada) ve iddeti sayarak (uc defa adet gorup
temizlendikten sonra) bosanmalarini emreder. Surenin sonunda da hanimi ya
guzelce (nikah altinda) tutmayi ve yahut guzellikle ayrilmayi
emreder.
Ayrica, livata (homoseksuellik) Islam'da buyuk bir gunah adledilir.
-------
Ibrahim
ATA
Gotkafa,
Sen Riza Nur denilen herifin esas kendisinin homo oldugunu ve
Ataturk'un onu sikmemesi yuzunden histeri kIrizleri icinde bu
hatiratini yazdigini ve deli oldugu doktor raporuyla onayli oldugunu
bilmiyor musun?
Umit Ocak
>Murat Ataman (ata...@nevada.edu) wrote:
>: Yaniliyorsun Ibrahim..
>: Ataturk hakkinda Riza Nur gibi hicbir referansi olmayan, ve referans
>: kabul edilmeyen bir kisinin yazdiklarindan sonuca varma, sonra sanabaska
>: referanslar gosterilir (Turan Dursun, Salman Rustu, daha baskalari, etc...)
> Dr. Riza Nur kimdir, Murat?
> Kendisi II. Mesrutiyet'ten itibaren mebusluk yapmistir. Tarihcidir.
> Uluslarasi heyetlerde, anlasmalarin imzalanmasinda rol oynamis, gorev
> yapmistir. Lozan'in ikinci adamidir. TBMM'de de mebusluk yapmistir.
> Ilk Maarif Vekilimiz olmus, daha sonra Sihhat ve Ictimai Mavenat
> Vekilligi de yapmistir. Nasil hic bir referansi olmadigini soylersin?..
> Kaldi ki M.Kemal'in homoseksuelliginden sadece kendisi degil; Irfan Orga,
> H.C.Armstrong, Lord Kinross gibi arastirmacilarda kitaplarinda bahsederler.
> Biz nasil saydigin yazarlarin yazilarini gecenlere saatlerce cevap
> yetistirmege ugrasiyorsak madem olay bu sekilde cereyan
> etmemistir, dogrusunu yazin...
> Dr. Riza Nur 1992, s: 314-315
> Birgun bir teblig-i resmi: Mustafa Kemal Latife'yi bosamis. Bunu da
> Hey'et-i Vekile karari ile yapmis. Bu Kanun-u Medeni'ye mugayirdi.
> Bosanmak, iki tarafin rizasiyla, veya onun mucip sebebi mahkeme hukmu ile
> olacakti. Hey'et-i Vekile, adliye kanun ve mahkemelerinin ustune cikmis
> ve vahidulcalip olarak karar vermis. Al iste, Mustafa Kemal'in kanuna
> riayeti...Bir Kanun-u Medeni yapti, bugun iptida kendi bozuyor. Hem
> aleme ilan suretiyle...Ismet de bunu yapiyor...O, ne yapmaz? Tek mevkide
> dursun, bunun icin cinayetler, katliamlar yapiyor da, bu bir sey mi?
> Kanunen Latife hala onun karisidir...
>
> Latife Istanbul'a geldi. Son zamanda haremimi aramiyordu. Mevhibe ile iyi
> idi. Refikamin Mevhibe ile muhaberesi de kesilmisti. Latife simdi,
> Istanbul'a gelince, derhal refikami istedi. Refikam gitti. Ona bir takim
> muhim seyler soylemis, bosanma vak'asini anlatmis. "Doktor gelsin, ona
> muhim havadislerim var" demis.
> Anlasildigina gore bosanma vak'asindan iki-uc gun evvel Latife kardesi
> Ismail ile haremi Sureyya Pasa'nin kizi Melahat Ankara'ya gitmislerdi.
> Cankaya'da misafir olmuslar. O vakit Mustafa Kemal'in yaninda katip
> sifatiyla Halit Ziya'nin oglu Vedad vardi. Guzel tuysuz bir cocuk. Bir
> aksam uzeri karanlik cokerken Ismail, Melahat balkona cikmislar.
> Bakmislar Vedad, Mustafa Kemal'i agacin dibinde yapiyor. Latife'yi
> cagirmislar. O da gormus. Bir kiyamettir kopmus. Latife Mustafa Kemal'e
> "Herseyini gordum, hepsine tahammul ettim. Artik buna edemem." demis.
> Gazi (!) savusmus, Ismet'in evine gitmis. "Bu kariyi simdi bosayacagim"
> demis. Ismet sabahleyin erkenden Hey'et-i Vekile'yi toplamis. Talaka
> [bosanmaya] karar vermisler (!). Latife'yi Ismet alip trene koymus.
> Trende teselli etmek istemis, Latife ona "Sus, sus! Ismet Pasa! Ismet
> Pasa! Sen ona bir gun dalkavukluk etme seni benden daha rezil eder. Hep
> aleti sensin." demis. Neden sonra birgun Ankara'da Ismet'e Latife'yi
> gordugumu soyledim. Yuzume bakti, "Bir facia oldu" dedi. Halbuki Latife
> en ziyade Ismet'e kiziyordu. "Bunlarin butun sebebi Ismet'tir" diyordu.
> -------
> Ibrahim
Yalan yalan yalan,
Yukarida bahsettigin yazilari yazan adamin bir ruh hastasi oldugu
defalarca kanitlandi. Türkiye'de televizyonlarda belgeleriyle doktor
raporlariyla. Kendisi'ne bir zamanlar önemli görevler verilmesi
sonradan sapitmadigi anlamina gelmez. Cumhuriyet kurulduktan sonra
istedigi gibi at oynatamayinca kalkti abuk sabuk yazilar yazdi. Sizin
gibi keklerde gidip böyle bir ruh hastasinin yazilarina inandi.
Bazilarinin yazdigi gibi Muhammed'in sübyanciligi he ne kadar karalama
amacli cok ayip bir spekülasyon ise senin gibi bir adamin böyle sacma
sapan $eyler yazmasi cok büyük bir cehalet Ibrahim efendi, ben de
senin birazcik olsun adam saniyordum demek ki Hakan Doganer ve Mustafa
Soysal'dan hicbir farkin yokmu$.
Atatürk'ün Latife'yi bo$ama $ekline bir diyecegim yok o zamandaki
hukukun oturmami$ olmasindan kaynaklanan bir hadisedir. Sebebine
gelince anlattigin gibi igrenc bir olaydan ötürü degil Atatürk'ün
Erzurum'da bir öglen yemeginde cekici bir kadina cok fazla ilgi
göstermesinden ötürü Latife'nin kiskanclik krizlerine girmesidir.
Bilindigi üzere Atatürk dedigin gibi oglanciligiyla degil bilakis
kadinlara olan dü$künlügü ile ün salmi$tir. Hatta sana on puanlik
uzman sorusu Zsa Zsa Gabor vardir eskilerden bir kitabinda 14
ya$larindayken Atatürk'le büyük bir macera ya$adigindan bahseder. Ne
kadar dogru bilemiyorum ama e$cinsel bir adamla maceralarinin oldugunu
iddia etmesine de bir anlam vermek zor bence.
Sen herhalde Atatürk'ü Osmanli pa$alariyla kari$tirdin. Lale devri
döneminde Saray ahalisinin özellikle o bir yerlere sigdiramadiginiz
haligenizin bir lafi vardir bir yerlerde bir zamanlar okumu$tum ho$uma
gitmedigi icin aklimda tutma geregi bile duymadim ama o sözü gün gibi
hatirlarim:
Saray erkani yorgansiz yatar amma oglansiz yatmaz!
Bilmem bu sana özlemini duydugunuz adamlarin karakteri hakkinda bir
$eyler hatirlatiyor mu?
> -------
MITHAT
MITHAT
From: anc...@ix.netcom.com (Rosine Sarafian)
SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA COMMUNITY-WIDE ARMENIAN GENOCIDE COMMEMORATION:
The Armenian Genocide Commemorative Committee has announced that on
Wednesday, April 24th at 3:00 p.m., the Southern California Armenian
American community will gather with friends and public officials at the
Genocide Memorial Monument located in Bicknell Park in Montebello,
California, to commemorate the 81st anniversary of the Armenian
Genocide.
A number of prominent local, state and federal elected officials and
their representatives will be in attendance, as well as a special guest
speaker from Armenia.
The event will last for approximately 2 hours.
The Commemorative Committee asks all Armenians, regardless of political
or religious affiliation, to honor the memory of our martyred
countrymen by taking time out to attend this event.
If you have any questions or for more information, please contact the
Armenian Genocide Commemorative Committee at (213) 722-9697.
al...@lehigh.edu
oglu) writes:
>
>
>>Bence Ataturk'un bu tip bosanmasi yalnis, seriatcilara yakisacak geri
>> kafali bir uygulama.
>
>Bu konuda tamamen mutabikiz... Her kelimene kalpten katiliyorum.
>
>M.Kemal'in geri kafali bir sekilde bosandigi hususunda yerden goge kadar
>haklisin! Zaten Muslumanlara da boyle bosanma emredilmemistir. (Musluman
>olmadigi ve Kemalizm seriatinin kurucusu oldugu icin kendisini bu yuzden
>mazur gormek lazim)
>
>Seriatci dedigin siradan Muslumanlarin bu sekilde bosandigini sana kim
>soyledi?..
Ibrahim,
Benim sana yazimda diyorduki, "sen Riza Nur'un disinda Lord KInross'unda
Ataturk'un homoseksuelliginden bahsettigini yaziyorsun, bana Lord
KInross'un bunlari nerede yazdigini bir goster." Bunu yapmak yerine
referans gostermeden yazdiklarini dogru gostermek icin laf degistiriyosun.
Mustafa Kemal'in Latife Hanimdan bosanmasi o zamanin Osmanli adetlerine
gore yapilmistir. O zaman ki Osmanli adetleri seriatin geri kafaliligindan
gelir. Bence Ataturk iki hafta daha sabredip, medeni kanunun cimsaindan
sonra bosanmaliydi. Lord Kinross kitabinda ayni elestriyi yapmaktadir.
Yalniz senin soylediginin aksine Lord Kinross hic bir kitabinin hic bir
yerinde Ataturk'e homoseksuel demez. Yazdigin yazilara referans ararken
Lord KInross gibi dunya capinda yazarlardan (arastirmacilardan) alinti
yapma. Cunku bu adamlar Riza NUr gibi halisinasyon yazmazlar. Bunlar
dogrulari yazar. Onlarin kitaplatindan Ataturk'un cinsel hayati
saptirilmaz. Zaten kafasi calisan hicbiir insan kisilerin cinsel
hayatlriyle siyasi/askeri kisiliklerini birbirine katmaz.
Ataturk Turkiyemizin kurtarilmasinda buyuk rol oynayan bir liderdir.
Hazreti Muhammed son dini yeryuzune getirmis, insanlari aydinliga
cikartmis kutsal bir insandir. Bu iki kisi cinsel hayatlari ne olursa
olsun, buyuk hizmetler vermislerdir. Bence ikiside normal cinsel hayatlara
sahip kisiler. Halusilativ yazilar disinda aksi bir belgede bunun tersini
soylemiyor, ama soylese bile kisinin yeryuzunde ne yaptigi onemlidir,
yatakta ne yaptigi degil.
Saygilar, ve ilerde verdigin referanslari dogru vermen dilegiyle,
Alp Bagriacik
Emre Berk
On 15 Apr 1996, ibrahim ethem guloglu wrote:
>
>
> Dr. Riza Nur kimdir, Murat?
>
> Kendisi II. Mesrutiyet'ten itibaren mebusluk yapmistir. Tarihcidir.
>
Tarihci falan degil, baytardir!
Anilari ancak tarihiciler icin bir kaynak olusturur. Onlar da karalama
gayretkesligi icinde tarihsel yanlislarla doludur.
Ataturk'un Latife Hanim'dan bosanmasina iliskin bu pasaj guzel bir
ornektir. Soyle ki:
> Dr. Riza Nur 1992, s: 314-315
>
> Birgun bir teblig-i resmi: Mustafa Kemal Latife'yi bosamis. Bunu da
> Hey'et-i Vekile karari ile yapmis. Bu Kanun-u Medeni'ye mugayirdi.
> Bosanmak, iki tarafin rizasiyla, veya onun mucip sebebi mahkeme hukmu ile
> olacakti. Hey'et-i Vekile, adliye kanun ve mahkemelerinin ustune cikmis
> ve vahidulcalip olarak karar vermis. Al iste, Mustafa Kemal'in kanuna
> riayeti...Bir Kanun-u Medeni yapti, bugun iptida kendi bozuyor. Hem
> aleme ilan suretiyle...Ismet de bunu yapiyor...O, ne yapmaz? [...]
Ataturk, Latife (Usakligil) Hanim'la 29 Ocak 1923'te evlenmistir. Ataturk
ve Latife (Usakligil) Hanim, 15 Agustos 1925'te bosanmislardir.
T.C. Medeni Kanunu, 17 Subat 1926 tarihinde kabul edilmis ve 4 Ekim 1926
tarihinde yururluge girmistir.
Bosanma bir hukumet karariyla olmustur. Bosanmada T.C. Medeni Kanunu'nda
belirlenen yollar izlenilmemistir cunku bu yasa o tarihte henuz mevcut
degildi!
Ataturk ve dava arkadaslari, II. Abdulhamit IStibdadi ve II. Mesrutiyet
sonrasi Ittihat ve Terakki Cuntasi donemlerinin keyfi uygulamalarinin
topluma verdigi zararin bilincinde, siyasal yasamda 'hukukun ustunlugu'
ilkesine inanarak, cagdas Turk ulusuna cagdas bir hukuk temeli
birakmislardir.
Esen kalin,
eb
MITHAT
Subj: One should not speak ill of the dead, but ...
Date: 96-04-16 04:14:33 EDT
From: "JACK L. KALPAKIAN" <JLK...@hamlet.bal.odu.edu>
Dear Hayastan Readers:
When was the last time an American politician learned to say "parev"
(I would even settle for a "Barev") and "Shnoragalem."
So, I hope you enjoy this piece. I hope that it leads those of us
who blindly support the Democratic party to think otherwise this time.
Sincerely,
Dwq
**********************************************************************
ACCESSION NUMBER:00000
FILE ID:96030807.WWE
DATE:03/08/96
TITLE:08-03-96 TEXT: BROWN SPEECH AT AMERICAN-TURKISH COUNCIL
CONFERENCE
TEXT:
(Turkey "Will Continue to Grow and Prosper") (1960)
Washington -- U.S. Commerce Secretary Ron Brown plans a trip to Turkey
this year to broaden the interest of U.S. investors and businesses in
the opportunities Turkey presents as a Big Emerging Market (BEM).
Brown announced his trip in a March 7 speech to the Annual Conference
and Trade Exposition sponsored by the American-Turkish Council and
American Friends of Turkey.
"As we look to the future, I can say without hesitation that Turkey --
with its young, energetic population and its great wealth of resources
and opportunities -- will continue to grow and prosper," he said. "The
United States wants to be part of this growth. That is what our BEM
program is all about, and we are already seeing results."
The secretary also said he is "encouraging U.S. companies to take
another look at the Turkish market now that Turkey has concluded a
Customs Union agreement with the European Union -- an agreement that
we strongly endorsed and actively supported.... Reduced barriers to
trade and increased market access will stimulate new trade and
investment opportunities."
He added that "Turkey's economic gains from the Customs Union will be
directly related to the amount of new investment Turkey is able to
attract. In order to attract further investment and to grow to its
potential, Turkey must continue on the liberalizing path and to
clarify legal uncertainties that stand in the way of future projects."
Turkey "has made a great start," Brown said. "In anticipation of the
Customs Union and other changes, inflows of foreign direct investment
into Turkey reached a record $1.3 billion in 1995 -- a 50 percent
increase over 1994.
"With a more open economy and strong economic program, Turkey will
continue to be successful in competing internationally for investment
capital."
Following is the text of Brown's speech as prepared for delivery:
(Begin text)
Chairman List, President Haynes, Ambassador Kandemir, Ambassador
Grossman, honorable ministers from Turkey, members of the
American-Turkish Council (ATC), and the guests and friends of the
United States and of Turkey: Ho Geldinez -- welcome and thank you for
inviting me to open the 1996 Annual Conference and Trade Exposition.
The American-Turkish Council is the premier group in U.S.-Turkey
affairs today, a key participant in developments in Turkey and in
improving U.S.-Turkey relations. I am quite honored to be a part of
this important event that each year contributes so significantly to
improving the dialogue between public officials and representatives of
private enterprise in our two countries.
Turkey and the United States
The United States has never lost sight of the great importance of
Turkey -- both strategically and economically. Turkey is a key NATO
partner, and its future as a democratic, secular, Muslim state in a
volatile region has never been more important. The United States is
also Turkey's second largest supplier of imports after Germany, and
the interest of U.S. businesses in the Turkish market has never been
greater.
The United States is working hard to strengthen our relations with
Turkey on every level. This is in recognition not only of Turkey's
location at the crossroads of the trading routes of Europe and Asia,
where East meets West, but also of the fact that Turkey is at the
crossroads of many diplomatic issues that affect the entire region.
Its influence in the region is great -- whether it be in Black Sea
development, where former president Turgut Ozal had the vision to
establish the Black Sea Economic Cooperation Organization, or
vis-a-vis the Central Asian republics, where Turkey is providing much
needed leadership in the post-Cold War era.
We look forward to continued cooperation with Turkey's new government
to achieve the mutually shared goals of regional security, economic
growth, and improved trading relations. A strong and prosperous Turkey
will help provide the increased stability that is needed in the
region.
Turkey as a Big Emerging Market
The theme for this conference -- "Turkey: the Big Emerging Market --
Anchor for East and West" -- captures Turkey's role in world affairs
and in international commerce. It is a theme that also has captured
the imaginations of policymakers and businesses, and which led the
Commerce Department to shape a special program devoted to Turkey and
to other selected "Big Emerging Markets" such as China, Brazil, and
India.
The Commerce Department launched the Big Emerging Markets, or BEM
program, in 1994, focusing on the key international growth markets
that hold the most promise for U.S. business over the next ten to
fifteen years. All of these markets, like Turkey, have large,
energetic work forces and offer vast opportunities for commercial
expansion.
The BEMs program represents a significant new approach to U.S.
international trade relations. It is enabling the United States to
work with the growth markets of the future -- countries such as Turkey
-- to help them reach their full potential and to foster closer
commercial relationships.
The BEMs approach encourages greater participation by U.S. companies
in these "markets of tomorrow" -- not tomorrow, but today -- while the
opportunities for cooperation are greatest.
The United States selected Turkey as a BEM because we have confidence
in Turkey's future, and in the future of U.S. companies that involve
themselves in Turkey's growth.
We are all aware that the recent economic restructuring of the Turkish
economy is causing short-term problems, but recognize that the
underlying momentum of Turkey's economy is impressive. Indeed, over
the last decade Turkey has had the highest average GNP growth rate of
any OECD (Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development)
country. The BEM strategy allows us to look beyond the short-term and
provides a stable vehicle for strengthening our commercial relations.
We are doing this by encouraging U.S. companies to involve themselves
in projects that matter for Turkey's development and which, frankly,
make good business sense for U.S. companies.
Customs Union Agreement
The United States also is encouraging U.S. companies to take another
look at the Turkish market now that Turkey has concluded a Customs
Union agreement with the European Union -- an agreement that we
strongly endorsed and actively supported. The EU-Turkey Customs Union
became effective at the beginning of the year.
The Customs Union is an important development for several reasons.
Politically, it will help to cement Turkey to the West and provide
stability in this traditionally unstable part of the world. But the
Customs Union also will contribute substantially to Turkey's economic
development.
Reduced barriers to trade and increased market access will stimulate
new trade and investment opportunities. The agreement also brings with
it increased transparency in decisionmaking and improvements in
Turkey's commercial regulations and intellectual property rights
protection -- all of which are good news for U.S. businesses.
The agreement reduces customs duties on U.S. industrial products --
which will average about 4 percent, down from 11 percent before the
agreement -- and eliminates Turkey's "mass housing" tax -- which added
15 to 20 percent to many products. These changes will bring greater
commercial opportunities for American firms as Turkish firms seek
imported capital equipment and joint venture partners.
But we also are aware that EU companies will benefit even more. Most
EU products enter duty-free under the agreement.
Thus while we foresee that U.S. exports to Turkey will grow as a
result of the greater opportunities presented by Turkey's Customs
Union with the EU, the U.S. share of Turkish imports -- now about 11
percent -- will probably fall as European products become more
attractive.
Importance of Attracting Investment
I would also add that Turkey's economic gains from the Customs Union
will be directly related to the amount of new investment Turkey is
able to attract. In order to attract further investment and to grow to
its potential, Turkey must continue on the liberalizing path and to
clarify legal uncertainties that stand in the way of future projects,
such as in the build-operate-transfer area that is so key to
infrastructure development.
There also are some U.S. investors that have been waiting for over a
decade for decisions on certain projects. Timely decisions on
investments are key to attracting capital in today's very competitive
world.
Turkey has made a great start. In anticipation of the Customs Union
and other changes, inflows of foreign direct investment into Turkey
reached a record $1.3 billion in 1995 -- a 50 percent increase over
1994. With a more open economy and strong economic program, Turkey
will continue to be successful in competing internationally for
investment capital.
U.S. Turkey Bilateral Tax Treaty
Another factor that will spur U.S. investor interest in Turkey is the
recently completed U.S.-Turkey Bilateral Tax Treaty, which awaits
being signed. After many years of negotiation, this agreement will
finally eliminate double taxation on profits earned from U.S.
investments in Turkey.
Business Development Council
To help further U.S.-Turkey commercial cooperation, the Commerce
Department is working with Turkey to establish a Business Development
Council to advise both governments on commercial issues and
opportunities.
As we proceed with plans for the Council, we will work closely with
the ATC. We intend for the Business Development Council to complement
the ATC's excellent work and to make it easier for its advice to be
factored into the policy making process.
The Future
As we look to the future, I can say without hesitation that Turkey --
with its young, energetic population and its great wealth of resources
and opportunities -- will continue to grow and prosper. The United
States wants to be part of this growth. That is what our BEM program
is all about, and we are already seeing results.
I am planning a trip to Turkey this year to spur even more results and
opportunities for U.S. companies. During my visit, I will explore
areas for cooperation with the Turkish government and work to
strengthen ties. I also will work to ensure that Turkish officials
know of the growing interest of U.S. business in the Turkish market,
including in specific projects now being planned, and look forward to
meeting Turkish business leaders who are truly the driving force
behind the high growth rates that Turkey has experienced in the last
decade.
Developments in the energy sector are especially promising for U.S.
firms. I am pleased to note that the ENRON Corporation and the Wing
Group recently signed revised project documents for a $540 million
power generation plant, a precedent-setting project to be done on a
build-operate-transfer, or B-O-T, basis.
We also are optimistic about the Turkish telecommunications market.
Later this month, the U.S. government is organizing a Turkish
telecommunications market opportunities conference in Istanbul to
showcase this sector.
The list of opportunities for U.S. companies goes on and on -- whether
it be the $32 billion project to develop Turkey's southeastern region,
known as "the gap," or a pipeline through Turkey for shipping oil to
Western Europe. The tremendous commercial opportunities in Turkey
underscore the importance of the Turkish market to U.S. business and
easily explain why the Commerce Department chose Turkey as a Big
Emerging Market.
Closing
In closing, I want to thank the American-Turkish Council again for
allowing me to welcome everyone to the conference, especially our
friends who came from Turkey to meet here.
Also, to everyone at this conference, you can be assured I will
continue to work for improved American-Turkish commercial relations
and for Turkey's prosperity.
I have high hopes that 1996 will be the year that Turkey lives up to
its great economic potential.
Cok Tesekkur Ederim -- Thank you.
(End Text)
NNNN
Jack Kalpakian
Old Dominion University
JLK...@HAMLET.BAL.ODU.EDU
MITHAT
From: anc...@ix.netcom.com (ANCA-DC )
Armenian National Committee of America
888 17th Street, NW Suite 904
Washington, DC 20006
Tel. (202) 775-1918
Fax (202) 775-5648
E-mail: anc...@ix.netcom.com
For Immediate Release
Contact: Elizabeth S. Chouldjian
April 15, 1996
Tel.: (202) 775-1918
U.S. REPRESENTATIVES TO COMMEMORATE
ARMENIAN GENOCIDE WITH APRIL 24 SPECIAL ORDER
Armenian Americans Called Upon to Encourage their Representatives
to Participate in Remembrance and to Work for Passage of H.Con.Res.47
Washington, DC - Members of the U.S. House of Representatives will
commemorate the 81st anniversary of the Armenian Genocide with speeches
on the House floor during an April 24th Special Order organized
by Congressional Caucus on Armenian Issues Co-chairmen, Representatives
Frank Pallone (D-NJ) and John Edward Porter (R-IL), reported the
Armenian National Committee of America (ANCA).
"We would like to express our sincere appreciation to Representatives
Porter and Pallone and extend to them our assistance in encouraging
wide-spread bipartisan participation in the April 24th Special Order,"
said Aram Hamparian, Executive Director of the ANCA. "As Co-chairmen
of the Armenian Caucus, and cosponsors of the Armenian Genocide
resolution, they have always been at the front lines of the fight to
ensure the recognition and appropriate commemoration of this tragic
chapter in Armenia's history."
In an April 11th Dear Colleague letter to fellow Representatives,
Congressmen Pallone and Porter invited them to participate in the
Special Order and pay "tribute to the victims of one of history's most
terrible tragedies, the Armenian Genocide of 1915-1923." Referring to
the continued efforts of the Turkish government to deny the Armenian
Genocide, the Congressmen stressed that
"The Armenian Genocide is an historical fact, despite the efforts of
some to minimize its scope or even deny that the campaign against the
Armenian people of eastern Turkey ever took place. The documentary
evidence -- much of it from American sources -- is irrefutable.
Because of these ongoing efforts of denial and revisionism, the truth
of the genocide must be spoken so that future generations will know
what happened."
The ANCA calls upon Armenian Americans to contact their member of
Congress in support of their participation in the House Special Order,
and to encourage them to work for passage of the Armenian Genocide
resolution. This legislation, know formally as H.Con.Res.47, currently
has over 150 cosponsors. Representatives may be contacted through the
Capitol Switchboard at (202) 225-3121. The ANCA is hosting a Armenian
Genocide remembrance ceremony on Capitol Hill in 2167 Rayburn Building
on April 30th, from 5:30 pm to 7:30 pm. All Armenian Americans are
welcome to attend. To RSVP or for additional information regarding the
Capitol Hill remembrance, contact the ANCA regional offices at (818)
500-1918 (ANCA-Western Region) or (617) 923-1918 (ANCA-Eastern Region).
#####
Haluk Aydinoglu
|> Mustafa Kemal'in Latife Hanimdan bosanmasi o zamanin Osmanli adetlerine
|> gore yapilmistir. O zaman ki Osmanli adetleri seriatin geri kafaliligindan
Bosanma o zamanin Osmanli adetlerine gore falan yapilmamistir. |
|> gelir. Bence Ataturk iki hafta daha sabredip, medeni kanunun cimsaindan
|> sonra bosanmaliydi. Lord Kinross kitabinda ayni elestriyi yapmaktadir.
Medeni kanuna gore evlenmeyen biri medeni kanuna gore nasil bosanir
o kismi tam kestiremeyecegim ama medeni kanuna gore bosanma yapilmak
istenseydi bunu Latife Hanim'in kabul edip etmeyecegi gibi bir sorun cikiyordu.
|> Yalniz senin soylediginin aksine Lord Kinross hic bir kitabinin hic bir
|> yerinde Ataturk'e homoseksuel demez. Yazdigin yazilara referans ararken
|> Lord KInross gibi dunya capinda yazarlardan (arastirmacilardan) alinti
|> yapma. Cunku bu adamlar Riza NUr gibi halisinasyon yazmazlar. Bunlar
Yazarlar ama biraz daha destekli atarlar, mesela referans falan gosterip sucu
baskasinin uzerine atmak gibi. Bu arada Kinross kitabinin bir yerinde Mustafa
Kemal'in zevkin her turlusunu tattigini yaziyor. Genellikle kulakdan dolma
bilgilerle baskalarina bok atmayi sevenler bu satirlarin agizdan agiza degismesi
ile hayali referans da yaratirlar.
--
Omne ignotum pro magnifico.
Everything is obvious when explained.
Haluk Aydinoglu
DSP Lab, Georgia Tech, Atlanta, GA 30332
ibrahim ethem guloglu
Necip Fazil'in ifadesiyle "Kinayiciyi kinarken icyuzunu ele verdiginden
gafil..."
Hadi Mithat (Ilhan Arsel) hata yapinca, "basimevinde yine imla hatasi
yapmislar! " kilifini takip isin icinden siyriliyor. Ya siz Kemalistlerin,
M.Kemal'i savunacagim diye su yazdiklariniza ne demeli...
a...@turklerin.kalbinde ATA at LAIK-HAREKET:
Gotkafa, Sen Riza Nur denilen herifin esas kendisinin homo oldugun ve
Ataturk'un onu sikmemesi yuzunden histeri kIrizleri icinde bu
hatiratini yazdigini...
Umit Ocak (uxo...@cougarnet.byu.edu) wrote:
Erzurum'da bir oöglen yemeginde cekici bir kadina cok fazla ilgi
göstermesinden ötürü Latife'nin kiskanclik krizlerine girmesidir.
Bilindigi üzere Atatürk dedigin gibi oglanciligiyla degil bilakis
kadinlara olan dü$künlügü ile ün salmi$tir. Hatta sana on puanlik
uzman sorusu Zsa Zsa Gabor vardir eskilerden bir kitabinda 14
ya$larindayken Ataturk'le buyuk bir macera yasadigindan bahseder
-------
Ibrahim
arg...@ucla.edu
Armenian Ass Kicking War on Friday April 19, 1996. If the Armenians are
celebrating our military victory on this day, then we owe it to them to
celebrate with them in appreciation of recognition of our superior
military. Hadi iyi eglenceler.
Tiger7124
be discussed in the congress so it be recognized in the US as a national
holiday, too.
TIGER
ATA
>gafil..."
>
>Hadi Mithat (Ilhan Arsel) hata yapinca, "basimevinde yine imla hatasi
>yapmislar! " kilifini takip isin icinden siyriliyor. Ya siz Kemalistlerin,
>M.Kemal'i savunacagim diye su yazdiklariniza ne demeli...
>
>
>Ibrahim
>
Senin gibi ot kafalara anlayacaginiz dilden cevap vermenin imla hatalari ile
alakasi yok. Turkiye den kacip disarida havlamak kolay.
LeilaKap
Baby!" and having a few laughs while seeing the bought "tears" of these
"American representatives"..
Leila
al...@lehigh.edu
>In article <4kupbb$7...@amanda.dorsai.org>, sak...@dorsai.org (ibrahim ethem gu
l
>oglu) writes:
>>
>>
>>>Bence Ataturk'un bu tip bosanmasi yalnis, seriatcilara yakisacak geri
>>> kafali bir uygulama.
>>
>>Bu konuda tamamen mutabikiz... Her kelimene kalpten katiliyorum.
>>
>>M.Kemal'in geri kafali bir sekilde bosandigi hususunda yerden goge kadar
>>haklisin! Zaten Muslumanlara da boyle bosanma emredilmemistir. (Musluman
>>olmadigi ve Kemalizm seriatinin kurucusu oldugu icin kendisini bu yuzden
>>mazur gormek lazim)
>>
>>Seriatci dedigin siradan Muslumanlarin bu sekilde bosandigini sana kim
>>soyledi?..
>[Bir bolumu silindi]
>
> Ibrahim,
>
> Benim sana yazimda diyorduki, "sen Riza Nur'un disinda Lord KInross'unda
> Ataturk'un homoseksuelliginden bahsettigini yaziyorsun, bana Lord
> KInross'un bunlari nerede yazdigini bir goster." Bunu yapmak yerine
> referans gostermeden yazdiklarini dogru gostermek icin laf degistiriyosun.
> Mustafa Kemal'in Latife Hanimdan bosanmasi o zamanin Osmanli adetlerine
> gore yapilmistir. O zaman ki Osmanli adetleri seriatin geri kafaliligindan
> gelir. Bence Ataturk iki hafta daha sabredip, medeni kanunun cimsaindan
> sonra bosanmaliydi. Lord Kinross kitabinda ayni elestriyi yapmaktadir.
> Yalniz senin soylediginin aksine Lord Kinross hic bir kitabinin hic bir
> yerinde Ataturk'e homoseksuel demez. Yazdigin yazilara referans ararken
> Lord KInross gibi dunya capinda yazarlardan (arastirmacilardan) alinti
> yapma. Cunku bu adamlar Riza NUr gibi halisinasyon yazmazlar. Bunlar
> dogrulari yazar. Onlarin kitaplatindan Ataturk'un cinsel hayati
> saptirilmaz. Zaten kafasi calisan hicbiir insan kisilerin cinsel
> hayatlriyle siyasi/askeri kisiliklerini birbirine katmaz.
>
> Ataturk Turkiyemizin kurtarilmasinda buyuk rol oynayan bir liderdir.
> Hazreti Muhammed son dini yeryuzune getirmis, insanlari aydinliga
> cikartmis kutsal bir insandir. Bu iki kisi cinsel hayatlari ne olursa
> olsun, buyuk hizmetler vermislerdir. Bence ikiside normal cinsel hayatlara
> sahip kisiler. Halusilativ yazilar disinda aksi bir belgede bunun tersini
> soylemiyor, ama soylese bile kisinin yeryuzunde ne yaptigi onemlidir,
> yatakta ne yaptigi degil.
>
> Saygilar, ve ilerde verdigin referanslari dogru vermen dilegiyle,
>
> Alp Bagriacik
>
>
> ...................................................
> : Alp Bagriacik : :
> : Lehigh University : al...@lehigh.edu :
> : 39 University Dr : (610) 866 59 99 :
> : Box Number: A135 : (908) 619 10 69 :
>
Ibrahim,
Sana ikinci defa soruyorum. Soylediklerini kanitlayacak referanslarin var
mi? Varsa kimlerin calismalari? Hangi kitabin kacinci sayfasindalar?
Mesela Lord Kinross, Ataturk'e nerede homoseksuel diyor? Bunlara cevap
verebilecek kadar kitap okudun mu? Yoksa Refah'in, tarikatlarin beyin
yikama odalarinda verdikleri kitaplari okumakla, ezberlemekle mi
yetiniyorsun?
Cevap vermen dilegiyle,
Hakan Doganer
In a previous article, em...@u.washington.edu (Emre Berk) says:
>
>
>On 15 Apr 1996, ibrahim ethem guloglu wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Dr. Riza Nur kimdir, Murat?
>>
>> Kendisi II. Mesrutiyet'ten itibaren mebusluk yapmistir. Tarihcidir.
>>
>
>Tarihci falan degil, baytardir!
Salla salla gitsin.. Baytar degil, tip doktorudur. Hatta Kemal'in
hukumetinde saglik bakanligi da yapmistir. Sen Mehmet Akif'le karistirdin
galiba..
>
>Anilari ancak tarihiciler icin bir kaynak olusturur. Onlar da karalama
>gayretkesligi icinde tarihsel yanlislarla doludur.
>
>Ataturk'un Latife Hanim'dan bosanmasina iliskin bu pasaj guzel bir
>ornektir. Soyle ki:
>
>> Dr. Riza Nur 1992, s: 314-315
>>
>> Birgun bir teblig-i resmi: Mustafa Kemal Latife'yi bosamis. Bunu da
>> Hey'et-i Vekile karari ile yapmis. Bu Kanun-u Medeni'ye mugayirdi.
>> Bosanmak, iki tarafin rizasiyla, veya onun mucip sebebi mahkeme hukmu ile
>> olacakti. Hey'et-i Vekile, adliye kanun ve mahkemelerinin ustune cikmis
>> ve vahidulcalip olarak karar vermis. Al iste, Mustafa Kemal'in kanuna
>> riayeti...Bir Kanun-u Medeni yapti, bugun iptida kendi bozuyor. Hem
>> aleme ilan suretiyle...Ismet de bunu yapiyor...O, ne yapmaz? [...]
>
>Ataturk, Latife (Usakligil) Hanim'la 29 Ocak 1923'te evlenmistir. Ataturk
>ve Latife (Usakligil) Hanim, 15 Agustos 1925'te bosanmislardir.
>
>T.C. Medeni Kanunu, 17 Subat 1926 tarihinde kabul edilmis ve 4 Ekim 1926
>tarihinde yururluge girmistir.
>
>Bosanma bir hukumet karariyla olmustur. Bosanmada T.C. Medeni Kanunu'nda
>belirlenen yollar izlenilmemistir cunku bu yasa o tarihte henuz mevcut
>degildi!
Peki hangi yol izlenmistir?. Adam karisina bile soylememis yahu "seni
bosuyorum" diye.. Hangi yolmus bu?..
Aslinda her ne kadar Riza Nur bosanmanin heyeti vekile karari ile
oldugunu yaziyor sa Kinross basta olmak diger Bati'li kaynaklar Kemal'in
kendi eliyle yazdigi bosanma kararini duyurmak icin ilgili yerlere
dagittigini yaziyorlar..
Hem Heyeti Vekile karari ile bosanma gerceklesmis olsa dahi, Latife
Hanim'a bu konuda hic bilgi verilmemesi nasil aciklaniyor acaba/ Yav insan
hic olmazsa karisina der ki "seni bosuyorum/bosayacagim" bosanma
kararini kendi yazip imzalamadan once..
ibrahim ethem guloglu
Alp Bagriacik:
> Sana ikinci defa soruyorum. Soylediklerini kanitlayacak referanslarin
> var mi? Varsa kimlerin calismalari? Hangi kitabin kacinci sayfasindalar?
> Mesela Lord Kinross, Ataturk'e nerede homoseksuel diyor? Bunlara cevap
> verebilecek kadar kitap okudun mu? Yoksa Refah'in, tarikatlarin beyin
> yikama odalarinda verdikleri kitaplari okumakla, ezberlemekle mi
> yetiniyorsun? Cevap vermen dilegiyle,
"Refah, tarikatlarin beyin yikama odalarinda verilen kitaplar"...
Kimin beyninin nasil yikandigini kendin gosteriyorsun. Bunu
farkedebiliyor musun?
Kaynaklardan bazilari asagidadir. Sayin Aydinoglu Kinross'un
M.Kemal icin (her zevki tattigini) soyledigini yazmis; bu yeterli midir
bilemiyorum fakat zamanim oldugunda, kitabi kutuphaneden alip tekrar
bakarim, sayfa numarasi gecerim.
-------
Ibrahim
Turkey,
by Emil Lengyel,
1941, p. 118
At school he could not bear discipline, annoyed little girls, beat up
the boys and made himself thoroughly disliked. His master thrashed him,
and Mustafa ran away from school. Now his mother consented to his
preparation for a military career. Army education in Turkey began in
childhood. With flying colors Mustafa passed the entrance examinations. At
the age of fourteen he became father of achild by a neighbor's daughter.
He was intensely jealous of other boys who showed promise or challenged
his position at the top of the class. At the Military Cadet School of
Salonika, his teacher of mathematics, a Captain Mustafa, dubbed him
"Kemal", the Arabic word meaning "perfection."
Grey Wolf, Mustafa Kemal, An Intimate Study of a Dictator, by H.C.
Armstrong, 1934, pp. 201-202.
For since he was a boy he had lived uncleanly, and when the wildness of
youth had passed, he had not put uncleanness from him. He had no morals
nor any belief in women or in virtue, nor had he even good taste to keep
him steady in his lack of morals. In his affairs there had been no great
pulse of love to give them glamour or excuse their sins. They had been
crude, sweaty intrigues of theor excuse their sins. They had been crude,
sweaty intrigues of the 'maison de rendez-vous' of bastard Levantine
Constantinople, with now and again a peasant girl. He had lusted in Paris,
and Sofia, and Pera with the harlots, and paid the price in disease and
reaction. He had indulged in many vices, debased himself in uncleanliness,
and grown coarse-fibred. He had taken his pleasure with the loose painted
women, who drank with him as his boon companions in the house at Chan
Kaya.
He had no delusions about women. They were to be used and enjoyed.
When done with they must be pushed aside, and their complaints stifled
with money. Of the possibilities of Woman and Love he had a vague academic
knowledge from the western books he had read. In reality he had no such
conception. He was oriental right through, and moreover an oriental
despot.
Ataturk, The Rebirth of A Nation, by Lord Kinross, 1965, p.
478-479.
By their standards Ataturk was indeed a loose-liver. Like many an
army officer he had used women fitfully and casually, taking them when he
wanted them and throwing them aside when he did not...
In his youth and in the prime of his manhood he had enjoyed women
freely when opportunity allowed. But from his mid-forties onwards his
desires and with them his powers declined; and now the less potent he
became the more he chose to advertise his potency.
Thus the dining-rooms of the embassies and the clubs and the
Ankara Palace Hotel hummed with the latest gossip about Ataturk's public
behaviour. No woman was held to be safe at his hands. Turkish mothers
might indeed thrust their daughters at him (and Turkish husbands their
wives), but Diplomatic mothers would hurry their daughterstheir wives),
but Diplomatic mothers would hurry their daughters away from a party for
fear he would invite them to his table. When he did so he would often
merely subject them to a "viva voce" exam. Taking a fancy to a young
Polish girl at an Embassy party, he was heard asking her for proof of the
existence of God. With a married woman the interrogation might be on the
more intimate subject of her relations with her husband. He had always
sensed just how far to go with women, and was a good judge of husbands,
never flirting with the wife of one likely to be jealous, and continually
warning his less discerning friends against blunders of this kind.
Occasionally, however, a scandal arose when the wife of some diplomat
allowed herself to become emotionally too much involved with the
President, while once Ankara was diverted by the tales of an American lady
who, in pursuit of him, lay down across the road by which he drove through
his farm and was invited to stay for some days at Chankaya.
Hayat ve Hatiratim (3)
Dr. Riza Nur,1992, s. 318-319
Artik bir balo ve dans devridir acildi. Guya medeni ve asri
olmusuz. Dava bu... Bu zevk ve safalari Kara Kapli'ya uyduruyorlar, mesru
gostermek lazim!.. Artik Ankara'da mukellef balolar veriliyor. Bu
balolarda muthis rezaletler de oluyor. Hatta kavga, dogus de var. Mustafa
Kemal geliyor. Zil zurna oluyor, kadinlara tasallut ediyor. Bir defa dans
ederken Fransiz Sefiri'nin kizinin memesini sIkmIs; kiz kacmis, babasiyla
beraber balodan gitmisler. Bir defa Mustafa Kemal kadin yerine tuysuz bir
zabitle dans etmis, cocugu opmus. Kadinlardan bir kaci Gazi'ye <<Biz
burada iken bu olmaz>> demisler, herif keyiflenmis. Bir adam karisini,
yani Mubarek Bey'in kizini onlarla dans ettirmek istemediginden Salih ve
avanesi adamcagizi oyle dovmusler ki, bicare sedye ile hastahaneye
goturulmus. Avrupa'da balolarda boyle sey asla olamaz. Bunlar baloyu da
tulumbaci kogusu yaptilar. Zaten Meclis'leri, Hukumetleri de o... Demek
seviyeleri bu kadar.
Grey Wolf, Mustafa Kemal, An Intimate Study of a Dictator, by H.C.
Armstrong, 1934, pp. 254.
A certain well-known pasha came to the Gazi's house. He complained
that the Gazi was too friendly with his wife; people were talking and he
would be grateful if the Gazi would not single her out so often for
special attention at public functions; there was probably nothing in it,
but people said unkind things.
For answer Mustafa Kemal glared at him.
"I know you," he shouted, "you have been intriguing against me.
Yes! it is true. I have had your wife. I took her to punish you for your
intrigues," and he shouted for the guard to chase the pasha from the
house.
Hayat ve Hatiratim (3)
Dr. Riza Nur
1992. s. 356
.....Bu Said karisi ve kizkardesini Mustafa Kemal'e takdim etmistir.
Latife bu kadinlari hic sevmezdi. Cunku bir gun Mustafa Kemal sofrada
Said'in karisinin ayagina basiyorum diye, Latife'nin ayagina basmis, kavga
cikmisti.....
Ataturk, The Rebirth of a Nation, by Lord Kinross, 1965,
pp.422-423
The situation came to a head during a visit to Erzinjan in the
Eastern provinces, where there had been a serious earthquake, and then to
Erzurum. Here a luncheon was given to which, at the Gazi's request,
officers and officials were bidden with their wives. It was the first time
men and women had sat down at table together in this conservative city -
hence a social occasion of a symbolic and somewhat stilted kind. Few of
the guests were at their ease, and Kemal, breaking the ice, chose to rally
his hostess, the handsome wife of the military commander, with expressions
of gallantry and admiring glances across the table. Latife showed her
displeasure, then lost control and exclaimed, `Be careful of your feet,
Kemal. They are reaching as far as me.'
Kemal went rigid with anger. The guests became silent with
embarrassment. The social experiment had ended in disaster. After it
Kemal refused to speak to Latife. Instead he telegraphed instructions to
the Cabinet, in Ankara, to arrange on his behalf for an immediate divorce.
Latife was sent off by train next day, with two officers for escort. Kemal
did notbid her farewell; nor did the wife of the commander with whom they
were staying.
Double Diploma, The Life of Sir Pierson Dixon, Don and Diplomat,
by Piers Dixon, 1968, pp. 34-35.
Another evening at the Ankara Palace (where all these dramas take
place in the most public way) the French Ambassador and his Military
Attache were dining together. The President of the Republic came in with
some of his suit, and the Ambassador was invited to their table. Soon the
Gazi called over the dancing girls, one of whom, a Hungarian, was wearing
a blouse which buttoned down the centre from the neck to the waist.
"Deboutonnez!" ordered the Gazi (his French no longer causes him anxiety
and he speaks it habitually among foreigners). The poor girl,petrified,
undid the top button. "Continuez," he roared, and so on until the last
button was undone and the girl's naked bosom exposed. The Gazi carefully
scrutinised it, and then discussed her with the remark that her breasts
were not up to the standard expected of an artiste. The miserable dancer
had a "crise de nerfs" after this verdict, went to hospital and shortly
afterwards left Ankara.
There were seven Austrian singing girls at the Ankara Palace in
the autumn, all respectable, hard-working artistes, whose dread was to be
summoned up to Bluebeard's chamber on the hill ["Bluebeard": (From the
name of a character in a children's story) a husband who marries and kills
one wife after another. HD]. One evening, Bluebeard invited them to his
table at the Ankara Palace, and after talking and joking with them for a
while suddenly pulled out two 50-lira notes, handed them to a young man in
his suite and ordered him to take off one of the girls (the prettiest,
youngest and shyest), and sleep with her at once. Obediently (for no one
dreams of disobeying the Great Man) the couple got up andwalked out of the
cabaret into the main hotel building. What happened next was narrated to
Col. de Courson by the girl herself. She turned furiously on the young
man, who was embarrassed, and said she had never been so insulted in her
life. He stoutly maintained that the appearance of obedience must be
given, even if nothing were done in fact. She angrily told him to keep the
money for himself (which he did) and they sat for half an hour glowering
at one another in a passage, and then returned to the cabaret, where the
young man expressed gratitude to his master and satisfaction at a pleasant
half hour.
The First Turkish Republic,
by R.D. Robinson, 1965, p. 27
Like almost all who described Kemal, Miss Gabor speaks of his
eyes: "The pupils were so light blue as to be almost colorless; it was
like looking at a blind man, yet one whose eyes pierced you through." She
reports that in private Kemal laughed a great deal, drank incessantly, was
greatly interested in a foreigner's reactions to Turkey. Over twenty years
later, she writes in obvious awe of the man. One senses that men she has
known since Kemal have been measured against his stature. In fact, she
admittedly married the next man who reminded her of him.
New York Post, November 8, 1991
After marrying a Turkish Diplomat at age 15 and leaving Hungary,
she was introduced to Kemal Ataturk, the godlike Turkish ruler who banned
the veil. Her marriage still unconsummated because her husband was
repelled by her constant contacts with dogs. She obeyed when Ataturk sent
word for her to appear at his villa. Ataturk clapped, dancing girls
appeared and Zsa Zsa "unquestionably" smoked opium and drank the potent
anise drink 'raki.' "Sometimes I think it happened in a dream,sometimes
that I was in opium haze, or a stupor induced by raki. All I know is that
that day, Ataturk, the conqurer of Turkey....took my virginity."
Western Civilization, Islam and Muslims,
by Abul Hasan Ali Nadwi,
translated from Urdu version by Dr. Mohammad Asif Kidwai, M.A.,
Ph.D.,
Academy of Islamic Research & Publications, Lucknow, 1969, p.46.
We will confine ourselves here only to the reproduction of a few
extracts from his contryman and admirer, Irfan Orga, who, in his famous
biography of him written in collaboration with his wife, Margaret,
observes (1):
[..deleted..]
"He felt at home with the prostitutes and the homosexuals because
they were so much worse off than he. The underlying sadism of his nature
came out. He never credited people with feelings since he had none himself
save the fundamental urge to conquer and see others submit to his will. He
had to be at the top."
(1). Orga, Irfan and Margaret, Ataturk, 1962, p. 246.
Grey Wolf, Mustafa Kemal, An Intimate Study of a Dictator, by H.C.
Armstrong, 1934, pp. 253-254.
......Then he went back to the long nights in smoke-filled rooms with
his drinking friends - the "desperadoes" as they were nicknamed- his
painted women and the life to which he belonged.
After that he became shameless. He drank deeper than ever. He
starteda number of open affairs with women, and with men. Male youth
attracted him. He made advances to the wives and daughters of his
supporters. Even important men sent their women-folk away from Angora out
of his way.
Hayat ve Hatiratim (3)
Dr. Riza Nur
1992, s: 153
Ali Fuad'la bir aksam ikimiz basbasa konusuyoruz. Mustafa Kemal'in
fuhus hikayelerinden bahsediyoruz. Dedi ki: "Ayol onun erkekligi yok.
Mektepte iken, Selanik'te iken beraber capkinliga giderdik. Kadinlarla
ugrasirdi, bir sey yapamazdi." Hayretimi mucip oldu. Bilmezdim.
Cunku fuhusa cok duskun. Bu sozu sonra bir binbasinin hareminden de
isittim. Mustafa Kemal bir aralik buna dadanmisti. Herkesin agzindaydi.
Kadin hasta olmus, bana muracaat etti. Pek guzel bir hanim. Mustafa Kemal
ile olan macerasini ne yapip soylettim. Dedi ki: "O kadina cok duskundur.
Ama bir sey yapamaz. Kalkmaz. Ugrasir surusturur. Sonunda disina akitir.
Iste bu kadar." Bu soz Ali Fuad'i teyid etti. Derken Mustafa Kemal Latife
ile evlendi. Latife haremimle ahbab idi. Ona Mustafa Kemal'in kocalik
yapamadigindan sikayet etmis. O da bana soyledi. Latife bu sikayeti Fethi
Bey'in refikasi Galibe hanima da yapmis. Fethi'den isittim. Demek ki Ali
Fuad'in sozu tamammis. Demek bu adam ibnedir. Ve bu hali gencliginden
beridir. Simdi fuhusa inhimakini tabii bir suretle izah mumkundur. Anadan
dogma uzvu kalkmayanlar, ya ahmak dogmus, veya dimagi tereddiye ducar
kimselerdir. Kadina bir sey yapamiyanlar, yapamadikca azar. Ve daha
ziyade bu isin ustune giderler. Artik deli gibi bir sey olurlar. Her
kadina saldirirlar. Akillarina ziyan gelir. Namuslu, namussuz, yeri veya
degil bilmezler. Nitekim bu adam bunu son alti yildir muthis surette
yapmis. Nice namuslu kadinlari riza ile,dalavere ile dusurerek, zor ile
irzina gecmistir. Bununla da kalmazlar, $ehvetin marazi kisimlarina da
dokulurler... Erkek cocuklarina inhimak ederler. Bir sey yapamayinca, bu
sefer bu cocuklara kendilerini yaptirirlar. Nitekim Mustafa Kemal son
uc-dort yildir bunlarin her turlusunu yapti. Ileride vak'alar
zikredecegiz.
Hayat ve Hatiratim (3)
Dr. Riza Nur
1992, s: 314-315
Birgun bir teblig-i resmi: Mustafa Kemal Latife'yi bosamis. Bunu
da Hey'et-i Vekile karari ile yapmis. Bu Kanun-u Medeni'ye mugayirdi.
Bosanmak, iki tarafin rizasiyla, veya onun mucip sebebi mahkeme hukmu ile
olacakti. Hey'et-i Vekile, adliye kanun ve mahkemelerinin ustune cikmis ve
vahidulcalip olarak karar vermis. Al iste, Mustafa Kemal'inkanuna
riayeti...Bir Kanun-u Medeni yapti, bugun iptida kendi bozuyor. Hem aleme
ilan suretiyle...Ismet de bunu yapiyor...O, ne yapmaz? Tek mevkide dursun,
bunun icin cinayetler, katliamlar yapiyor da, bu bir sey mi? Kanunen
Latife hala onun karisidir...
Latife Istanbul'a geldi. Son zamanda haremimi aramiyordu. Mevhibe
ile iyi idi. Refikamin Mevhibe ile muhaberesi de kesilmisti. Latife simdi,
Istanbul'a gelince, derhal refikami istedi. Refikam gitti. Ona bir takim
muhim seyler soylemis, bosanma vak'asini anlatmis. "Doktor gelsin, ona
muhim havadislerim var" demis.
Anlasildigina gore bosanma vak'asindan iki-uc gun evvel Latife
kardesi Ismail ile haremi Sureyya Pasa'nin kizi Melahat Ankara'ya
gitmislerdi. Cankaya'da misafir olmuslar. O vakit Mustafa Kemal'in
yaninda katip sifatiyla Halit Ziya'nin oglu Vedad vardi. Guzel tuysuz bir
cocuk. Bir aksam uzeri karanlik cokerken Ismail, Melahat balkona
cikmislar. Bakmislar Vedad Mustafa Kemal'i agacin dibinde yapiyor.
CetinKilim
maskesini birakip acikca kendi adiyla yazmasi disinda bir onemi
yok.Aslinda hakan doganer'in kim oldugu onemli degil. IE Guloglu'nun
fikirleri ve mucadelesi bu mucadelede nasil David Davidian ve Mustafa
Soysal ile isbirligi yaptigi ortaya cikiyor.Gunduz Kanuni gece oldu mu
Riza Nur'dan belden asagi hatirat. Kendisi de herhalde Riza Nur'dan acikca
yazmaya utandigindan daha cok Hakan Doganer kimligini kullaniyor.Hepsi
bu.Meraklilarina sunulur.
Cetin
.....cut.......................................................
Subject: LATIFE HANIM VE HOMOSEKSUELLIK...
From: sak...@dorsai.org (ibrahim ethem guloglu)
Date: 15 Apr 1996 06:05:28 -0400
Message-ID: <4kt718$n...@amanda.dorsai.org>
Dr. Riza Nur kimdir, Murat?
Kendisi II. Mesrutiyet'ten itibaren mebusluk yapmistir. Tarihcidir.
Uluslarasi heyetlerde, anlasmalarin imzalanmasinda rol oynamis, gorev
yapmistir. Lozan'in ikinci adamidir. TBMM'de de mebusluk yapmistir.
Ilk Maarif Vekilimiz olmus, daha sonra Sihhat ve Ictimai Mavenat
Vekilligi de yapmistir. Nasil hic bir referansi olmadigini soylersin?..
Kaldi ki M.Kemal'in homoseksuelliginden sadece kendisi degil; Irfan Orga,
H.C.Armstrong, Lord Kinross gibi arastirmacilarda kitaplarinda
bahsederler.
Biz nasil saydigin yazarlarin yazilarini gecenlere saatlerce cevap
yetistirmege ugrasiyorsak madem olay bu sekilde cereyan
etmemistir, dogrusunu yazin...
Dr. Riza Nur 1992, s: 314-315
Birgun bir teblig-i resmi: Mustafa Kemal Latife'yi bosamis. Bunu da
Hey'et-i Vekile karari ile yapmis. Bu Kanun-u Medeni'ye mugayirdi.
Bosanmak, iki tarafin rizasiyla, veya onun mucip sebebi mahkeme hukmu ile
olacakti. Hey'et-i Vekile, adliye kanun ve mahkemelerinin ustune cikmis
ve vahidulcalip olarak karar vermis. Al iste, Mustafa Kemal'in kanuna
riayeti...Bir Kanun-u Medeni yapti, bugun iptida kendi bozuyor. Hem
aleme ilan suretiyle...Ismet de bunu yapiyor...O, ne yapmaz? Tek mevkide
dursun, bunun icin cinayetler, katliamlar yapiyor da, bu bir sey mi?
Kanunen Latife hala onun karisidir...
Latife Istanbul'a geldi. Son zamanda haremimi aramiyordu. Mevhibe ile iyi
idi. Refikamin Mevhibe ile muhaberesi de kesilmisti. Latife simdi,
Istanbul'a gelince, derhal refikami istedi. Refikam gitti. Ona bir takim
muhim seyler soylemis, bosanma vak'asini anlatmis. "Doktor gelsin, ona
muhim havadislerim var" demis.
Anlasildigina gore bosanma vak'asindan iki-uc gun evvel Latife kardesi
Ismail ile haremi Sureyya Pasa'nin kizi Melahat Ankara'ya gitmislerdi.
Cankaya'da misafir olmuslar. O vakit Mustafa Kemal'in yaninda katip
sifatiyla Halit Ziya'nin oglu Vedad vardi. Guzel tuysuz bir cocuk. Bir
aksam uzeri karanlik cokerken Ismail, Melahat balkona cikmislar.
Bakmislar Vedad, Mustafa Kemal'i agacin dibinde yapiyor. Latife'yi
cagirmislar. O da gormus. Bir kiyamettir kopmus. Latife Mustafa Kemal'e
"Herseyini gordum, hepsine tahammul ettim. Artik buna edemem." demis.
Gazi (!) savusmus, Ismet'in evine gitmis. "Bu kariyi simdi bosayacagim"
demis. Ismet sabahleyin erkenden Hey'et-i Vekile'yi toplamis. Talaka
[bosanmaya] karar vermisler (!). Latife'yi Ismet alip trene koymus.
Trende teselli etmek istemis, Latife ona "Sus, sus! Ismet Pasa! Ismet
Pasa! Sen ona bir gun dalkavukluk etme seni benden daha rezil eder. Hep
aleti sensin." demis. Neden sonra birgun Ankara'da Ismet'e Latife'yi
gordugumu soyledim. Yuzume bakti, "Bir facia oldu" dedi. Halbuki Latife
en ziyade Ismet'e kiziyordu. "Bunlarin butun sebebi Ismet'tir" diyordu.
-------
Ibrahim-
Hakan Doganer
In a previous article, ha...@eedsp.gatech.edu (Haluk Aydinoglu) says:
>In article <4l10p2$1p...@ns5-1.CC.Lehigh.EDU>, al...@Lehigh.EDU writes:
>|> Mustafa Kemal'in Latife Hanimdan bosanmasi o zamanin Osmanli adetlerine
>|> gore yapilmistir. O zaman ki Osmanli adetleri seriatin geri kafaliligindan
>
>Bosanma o zamanin Osmanli adetlerine gore falan yapilmamistir. |
Bosanma diye bir sey olmamistir ki hangi adetlere gore yapilip
yapilmadigi tartisabilsin..
Bu arada dikkatimi su cekti: Bosanmanin Bakanlar Kurulu karari
ile oldugunu gordugum kaynaklar icinde tek bildiren Riza Nur..
Kinross basta olmak uzere diger (Batili) kaynaklar ise Kemal'in
bosanma kararini kendisinin yazip imzaladigini ve duyurma amaciyla
saga sola dagittigini yaziyor. Genelde Riza Nur'u yalancilikla
itham edip Kinros gibi yazarlari Riza Nur'a tercih eden Kemalistler
bosanmanin (o da nasil bosanmaysa) nasil oldugu hususunda simdiye
kadarki tavirlarinin disina cikiyor ve Riza Nur'un yazdiklarini Kinross
gibi yazarlarin yazdiklarina tercih ediyorlar... Ilginc....
Emre Berk
Haydi or'dan!
Ataturk'un Latife (Usakligil) Hanim'dan nasil bosandigi konusunun gizli
kapakli bir yani falan yoktur. Aciniz Meydan Larousse Ansiklopedi'si gibi
siradan bir kaynak okuyunuz. Egitimsizlikten hersey size yeni ve sizden
gizlenmis gibi geliyor.
Tarihlerle iddialariniz curutulunce, is "referansi verenin kimligi"
sacmaligina boguluyor.
Riza Nur'dan bu alintiyi yaklasik iki once yapmistiniz ve o zaman da buna
yanit olarak "Ataturk ve T.C. Medeni Kanunu" baslikli bir yazimda gecen
gun gectigim tarihsel yanlisliga dikkati cekmis ve Ataturk'un kendisini
yasalarin uzerinde gordugu iddiasinin yalan ve iftira oldugunu bosanma
konusundan yola cikarak yazmistim.
Bosanmanin bilinmeyen bir yonu de yoktur.
Maksadinizin basit ve adi propaganda oldugu herkesce malum; sizin
yazdiklarinizda irfan ve marifet bulan ahmaklara sasarim.
eb
>
>
>
George Soumakis
In article <4l15fg$a...@newsbf02.news.aol.com> MITHAT wrote:
>Date: 16 Apr 1996 18:03:28 -0400
>From: mit...@aol.com (MITHAT)
>Sender: ro...@newsbf02.news.aol.com
>Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish
>Subject: Washington D.C.
at least you admit the truth. That turks murdered Armenians, like they do
now with the Kurds. Turks have a long history of genocides.
MITHAT
In article <4m5ssj$e...@news-e2b.gnn.com>, GSou...@gnn.com (George
Soumakis) writes:
>>
>>cross posted from the Armenian Hayastan mail List
********************************************************************
(M) Meaning the article was written by Armenians.
>>
>>
>>From: anc...@ix.netcom.com (ANCA-DC )
>>
>>
>>Armenian National Committee of America
>>888 17th Street, NW Suite 904
>>Washington, DC 20006
>>Tel. (202) 775-1918
>>Fax (202) 775-5648
>>E-mail: anc...@ix.netcom.com
>>
>>For Immediate Release
>>Contact: Elizabeth S. Chouldjian
>>April 15, 1996
>>Tel.: (202) 775-1918
>>
>>U.S. REPRESENTATIVES TO COMMEMORATE
>>ARMENIAN GENOCIDE WITH APRIL 24 SPECIAL ORDER
(...)
>at least you admit the truth. That turks murdered Armenians, like they
do
>now with the Kurds. Turks have a long history of genocides.
>
(M) if you are comprehensively challenged there is nothing anybody can do
for you, however, let me try:
Let me tell you what some Armenians say in Turkey:
"...As the region where the Armenians lived was on the general route of
migration into Anatolia, in spite of their claims the Armenians never
established independent Armenia in any period of their history and never
achieved the conditions necessary for a legally established state, with
the exception of a sixty year period. The Turks got hold of Anatolia
without fighting any Armenian State and established their own states.
Under Ottoman rule, the special privileges granted to the Armenians
allowed them to enjoy unprecedented prosperity and happiness, particularly
in contrast with the period of Byzantine rule. ..."
"..>As to the allegations of genocide: first of all, we have to see what
is understood by this term. Genocide is the total extermination of a
community whose members had nothing to do with an uprising. What the
Spanish did to the Incas, what the Americans did to the American Indians,
what the Germans did to the Jews are examples of true genocide. Armenians
on the other hand would like Turkey to confess to a non-existent
genocide..."
"...There is a fact which must be emphasized and kept always in view: The
Armenians started rebellions to establish an independent state within the
Ottoman Empire between 1878 and 1915, cooperated with the Russians in
Eastern Anatolia behind the Turkish lines, caused great damage to the
Ottoman armies, and threatened the security of the region. Those who come
up with allegations against the Turks should be prepared to face the real
truth."
"...It is impossible that one and a half million Armenians were killed in
this re-settlement, because the documents show that at that time the whole
Armenian population was 1,293,000. Even if there is a 15% margin of error,
the total does not exceed 1.5 million. If so many Armenians had been
killed there would not have been any Armenians alive today. If there was a
mass murder of such proportions, would the deportees return to Turkey?
Where did the Armenians who settled in South Eastern Anatolia and even
beyond Eastern Anatolia come from? According to the documents of the
Armenian Patriarchate Immigration Commission in Istanbul at least 100,000
Armenians had been subject to immigration. It is tragic that some
Armenians lost their lives in deportation. However, we must remember that
in the last days of a dying empire, when the country was at war with all
the powers of Europe, when there were hardly any facilities for transport,
any security, and possibility for health control, and when the various
peoples in the Empire were taking the state's authority in their own
hands, tens of thousands of Turks also lost their lives. It is also a
historical fact that carts had to go over the ice which covered the bodies
of tens of thousands of the Turkish soldiers frozen to death in the east
of Anatolia, because their supply lines had been cut off by the Armenians.
It is also fact that, although some Armenians died during the deportation,
at least 500,000 Turks were kiilled by them between the years 1877 and
1920. Yet, the Ottoman administration punished 1376 people and executed 62
persons because they had not applied the rules of humane treatment during
the deportation."
"...As a result of (Armenian terrorist activities against Turkish
diplomats during the last two decades), The Armenians living in Turkey
have watched the atorcities with the horror and disapproval. For example,
Artin Penik, an Armenian living in Turkey, who attempted to immolate
himself in protest against the Armenian acts of violence and unfortunately
died in hospital said before he died: 'You murderers of ASALA, you are
being used by imperialistic powers. They do not tell you the historical
facts. In those days (before 1915) hundreds of thousands of people
perished owing to the devices of imperialaistic powers Russia, England,
France). Think for yourselves and then you will realize that you are being
deceived. You will never be successful on your activities. The Turks and
the Armenians will go on living like brothers in the future as they do
today.' By means of this message, Artin penik remind the Armenians of
the way in which imperialistic countries used the Armenians in the past
and warns them against France, Greece, and Syria, which are making use of
them today."
"The Armenians in Turkey have been living peacefully and they have their
own schools, places of worship, work and culture. .."
"The Turkish Armenians have recognized Turkey as their own country, the
Turkish nation as their own nation, and the Turkish flag as their own
flag; and they are not going to change this attitude."
by Dikran Kevorkyan, Secretary General of the Armenian Patriarchal Board
of Directors, Turkey, from Proceedings of Symposium on International
Terrorism, Ankara University Press, 1984, pp.95-102
>
0543424...@gmail.com
kamalın ibne olduğunu yazan kaynakları ve linklerini buradan bulabilirsiniz. adam ibneler ansiklopedilerine bile girmiş. dünyaca bilinen bir şey bizde bilinmiyor. ülke değil mağara mübarek. orman kanunu 5816 kalksın bunları detaylı öğrenirsiniz https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JsRk8skizq8
0543424...@gmail.com
>
> : Yaniliyorsun Ibrahim..
> : Ataturk hakkinda Riza Nur gibi hicbir referansi olmayan, ve referans
> : kabul edilmeyen bir kisinin yazdiklarindan sonuca varma, sonra sanabaska
> : referanslar gosterilir (Turan Dursun, Salman Rustu, daha baskalari, etc...)
>
bunlara anlatamazsın reis. sen şu videoyu izle linklere bak. hepsinde de kamalın ibne olduğu yazıyor. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JsRk8skizq8
0543424...@gmail.com
0543424...@gmail.com
GREY WOLF HC Armstrong
TÜRKÇEYE BOZKURT OLARAK ÇEVRİLDİ. MKEMALİN GENÇ ERKEKLERLE İLİŞKİ YAŞAMASI SANSÜRLENDi
https://archive.org/details/GreyWolfMK/page/n255/mode/2up
Ataturk: A Biography of Mustafa Kemal, Father of Modern Turkey
Atatürk / Bir Milletin Yeniden Doğuşu - Lord Kinross
M.KEMALİN EŞCİNSEL İLİŞKİ YAŞADIĞINI YAZDI TÜRKÇEYE ÇEVİRİRKEN SANSÜRLEDİLER
https://books.google.com.tr/books?id=Yw-xAAAAIAAJ&q=atat%C3%BCrk+bisexual&dq=atat%C3%BCrk+bisexual&hl=tr&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjlw43f2OrlAhWXQkEAHZv_BVEQ6AEIMTAB
daha nice kaynaaklar varda siktr et
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JsRk8skizq8 merak eden burdan bakar