Am I Crazy, in Love, or a little of both?

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musq...@spambigfoot.com

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Oct 6, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/6/98
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Well, I've fallen in love with a lovely women in Bangkok, the problem
is she is a bar girl. A brief intro to this story is in order.

I had had two previous business trip the Thailand and I had spent my
evenings with my co-workers in a little bar in the 'buckskin joe
village' on Sukumvit. Just drank there and played pool, chatted with
the girls, nothing more. I was engaged at the time, the co-workers
were married. It was a nice casual bar with no open signs of anything
improper going on. OK, I was a bit nieve at the time. ;-)

On my third trip I met a very charming and lovely girl. We talked
nightly and she made me smile and laugh. I was have a tough time in
my relationship at home and this was very refreshing. After a week of
this, my co-workers and I decided to pay the bar fine for some of the
girls so they could hang out at our hotel pool with us. My co-workers
were both married but we didn't really relish the idea of just sitting
in hot-tub staring at each other. ;-) Well, the first couple times we
did this, the girls just didn't understand that when we were all done
swimming and talking and headed for bed, we 'set them free' to go
home. Again, nothing ever happened. We were easy marks, all the girls
had to do was talk to us, swim, and drink our beer. I guess in some
savior type of way we all liked to think that we were taking them away
from their life if only for a few hours and showing them some fun.

After another week of this, I finally asked her to spend the night.
Money was never mentioned and all we did was talk. jing jing! For the
rest of my time there she spend every night and had a great time just
talking and teaching her more english and myself more Thai. I knew
what her job was and was not happy, but I was just enjoying my time
with her.

When I got home from that trip I ended my relationship with my
fiancee. Not directly because of my friend in Thailand, as previously
stated, we were already having problems. Although the fact that I had
found a woman I could be happy with certainly didn't help matters. ;-)
I wrote with my friend and she wrote back.

I just got back from trip number four(Love those frequent flyer miles.
Only $37 cash spent.) This was a far to quick 6 day holiday. We spent
all out time together and again money beyond the 300 Baht barfine was
never mentioned. We spend our time talking and laughing, going to the
bar at night to say hi to her friends and have a beer or three. Doing
all the things a normal dating couple does.

On night number 4 there she was in tears and gave me 'the story' "She
was married but her Thai husband was killed in a motorbike accident
and she had one child who lived with her past husbands mother. She
had only been in the bar for 2 years and did not like what she did.
Only had 3 or so customers a month. She was a bad a person and bad for
me as she had been with many men. She wants to be with me forever."

So here are some of my questions:
1. Why tell a story like this? It certainly doesn't enhance her
position in any way. Or is it just an explanation for what she does. I
can understand her job although I certainly do not like it in any
form.

2. If this is all a hoax of some sort, why never ask me for money? Or
is this a long range plan? Leading me along to get taken away from all
this?

I guess what really through me off was that damned story about the
husband. It is almost exactly what I had read here only a few weeks
before. If not for hearing the story, I would have very few
reservations to be with her.

I really like the girl a lot can see a potential future with her.
Certainly though, I want the truth or some form close to it. ;-) I
don't know what it is about the girl but she touched me in some way.
My co-workers saw it when I was last out there. I have been
contemplating a job in Thailand and am trying not to let a
relationship drive that choice, but it is not easy. ;-)
I guess what really through me off was that damned story about the
husband. It is almost exactly what I had read here only a few weeks
before. If not for hearing the story, I would have very few
reservations to be with her.

Another thing about the whole story. I would have to imagine many
wives DO loose their husbands to motorbike accidents. I mean, if you
are going to lie don't you want it to be believable to some extend?
When I'm late for work I tell my boss I got stuck in traffic, not that
I was abducted by aliens. ;-) So, I guess I want to hang on the hope
that this is actually a true story. In fact, a day or so before she
told me, I was chatting with her sister. Her sister mentioned my
friends child and when she saw the look of surprise on my face she
quickly covered up and said she was only joking with me. Family wide
scam or honest girl?

I will appreciate any advice and insight into all this. I know I have
almost written a novella on this. ;-) Please refrain from the quick
judgement of lying whore(I don't like this word at all) and such. I
would like some honest input on this.

Thank you,
Dan

Ganderman

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Oct 6, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/6/98
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></PRE></HTML>

Go out and buy Laura Schlessinger's book "10 Stupid Things Men Do To Mess UP
their Lives", and read the chapter about "Stupid Chivalry"...very carefully.

tch...@my-dejanews.com

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Oct 6, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/6/98
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First warning: you're going to get a lot of responses from people who say
that both you and she are scum and all Thai women are thieves and liars, etc.
Ignore them.

Several embedded comments below:

In article <361aef22...@news.erols.com>,
musq...@SPAMbigfoot.com wrote:

> Well, I've fallen in love with a lovely women in Bangkok, the problem
> is she is a bar girl. A brief intro to this story is in order.

<snipped>

> On night number 4 there she was in tears and gave me 'the story' "She
> was married but her Thai husband was killed in a motorbike accident
> and she had one child who lived with her past husbands mother. She
> had only been in the bar for 2 years and did not like what she did.
> Only had 3 or so customers a month. She was a bad a person and bad for
> me as she had been with many men. She wants to be with me forever."
>
> So here are some of my questions:
> 1. Why tell a story like this? It certainly doesn't enhance her
> position in any way. Or is it just an explanation for what she does. I
> can understand her job although I certainly do not like it in any
> form.

Exactly 2 possiblities: she's lying or she's not. She could be setting you up
for the big fall. Sometime next month she gives you the next step of the sob
story and asks for big money. Or she could be telling you the truth and
wanting you to understand that she took the job she has out of desparation,
not because she's a slut.

Which is correct? Neither I nor anyone else on this group has a clue.

> 2. If this is all a hoax of some sort, why never ask me for money? Or
> is this a long range plan? Leading me along to get taken away from all
> this?

Could be.

> I guess what really through me off was that damned story about the
> husband. It is almost exactly what I had read here only a few weeks
> before. If not for hearing the story, I would have very few
> reservations to be with her.

That story is often told for one reason. It's believable. Partly because it
happens sometimes.

> I really like the girl a lot can see a potential future with her.
> Certainly though, I want the truth or some form close to it. ;-) I
> don't know what it is about the girl but she touched me in some way.
> My co-workers saw it when I was last out there. I have been
> contemplating a job in Thailand and am trying not to let a
> relationship drive that choice, but it is not easy. ;-)
> I guess what really through me off was that damned story about the
> husband. It is almost exactly what I had read here only a few weeks
> before. If not for hearing the story, I would have very few
> reservations to be with her.
>
> Another thing about the whole story. I would have to imagine many
> wives DO loose their husbands to motorbike accidents. I mean, if you
> are going to lie don't you want it to be believable to some extend?
> When I'm late for work I tell my boss I got stuck in traffic, not that
> I was abducted by aliens. ;-) So, I guess I want to hang on the hope
> that this is actually a true story. In fact, a day or so before she
> told me, I was chatting with her sister. Her sister mentioned my
> friends child and when she saw the look of surprise on my face she
> quickly covered up and said she was only joking with me. Family wide
> scam or honest girl?

When you hear hooves think horses not zebras. The easiest and simplest
explanation is true more often than not.

> I will appreciate any advice and insight into all this. I know I have
> almost written a novella on this. ;-) Please refrain from the quick
> judgement of lying whore(I don't like this word at all) and such. I
> would like some honest input on this.

OK. Advice time. You trust her or you don't. Right? If you trust her, go along
with her. If you get burned, well it won't be the first or the last time,
right? If you don't trust her what's the point of the relationship?

Whatever she asks you for, are you prepared and capable of giving it? The, if
you trust her, give it. Worst thing that can happen is you're out a few
hundred bucks. You can afford it. Eat macaroni and cheese for a month to make
up for the loss. You've got a job. You'll recover financially. If she's not
lying, you win big time.

If you don't trust her, don't give her a thing and break it off. Better for
both of you.

> Thank you,
> Dan

--

Tchi...@HoTMaiL.com

-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own

CHRIS6G

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Oct 6, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/6/98
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In my view it seems, tchiowa gave you very good advice. It IS REALLY DIFFICULT!
May be she is one of the best chances you ever met. May be she is not. So: take
car to loose not too much money and heart. But you should know much more from
here. And specially her family! Sometimes the family ahs a gigantic mouth and
stomach... But that says not anything about HER character. A diificult way.. I
went a way like this. and since five years I am happy... instead I geave much
money to help her and her family. But this never was so much to destroy me!

Eseth179

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Oct 6, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/6/98
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You asked so:

If what you are considering is a good idea, it will still be a good idea a year
from now.

If is is still a good idea a year from now, you should not give a damn about
her background. If you do still care about her backgorund, do her a favor and
leave her alone. She deserves better

Thailsnd is a tough place. Women are forced into tough decisions whille still
young girls. Mistakes get made. So what.

Kinnear

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Oct 6, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/6/98
to
If you really love her then her past doesnt matter. If you expect a virgin you will
have a long wait or go after a girl of about 12-13 yrs old. The line sounds like
the common one however it COULD be true. You have to make a judgement about weather
or not you can trust her. If the next line is something like you give me ( a lot of
) money and i will join you in the USA then be careful that would be the coup de
gras and probably you will never see her again. There are a lot of good women in
Thailand. I was lucky enough to find a good woman 30 yrs ago and have been happy
ever since. You also could have a good woman here. You will have to make the
decision by yourself, dont let alot of the bullshit you read in the NG influence
you to much.
Best Regards
Jim

maledetto

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Oct 6, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/6/98
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Don't go for it! Honestly, please don't do it. My take on the situation is
she didn't tell you for such a long time about her 'misfortune' is that she
decided that she could get more $'s from you this way. IMHO she took
advantage of the situation between you and your fiancee (I assume that you
told her all about it and also your growing feelings for her). This is a
sure fire recipe for a scam.

Take care, hope this helps and hopefully everything will work out.

Randy

male...@mail.tqci.net

musq...@SPAMbigfoot.com wrote in message
<361aef22...@news.erols.com>...

EKed...@t-online.de

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Oct 6, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/6/98
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Ganderman wrote:

> >
> >Well, I've fallen in love with a lovely women in Bangkok, the problem
> >is she is a bar girl. A brief intro to this story is in order.
> >

> >I will appreciate any advice and insight into all this. I know I have
> >almost written a novella on this. ;-) Please refrain from the quick
> >judgement of lying whore(I don't like this word at all) and such. I
> >would like some honest input on this.
> >
> >Thank you,
> > Dan
> ></PRE></HTML>
>
> Go out and buy Laura Schlessinger's book "10 Stupid Things Men Do To Mess UP
> their Lives", and read the chapter about "Stupid Chivalry"...very carefully.

Or read:
"Hello My Big Big Honey!" Love Letters to Bangkok Bar Girls and Their Revealing
Interviews
ISBN 974-88761-9-5
The author, Dave Walker dwa...@globalserve.net , May 12, 1998
All of the letters appearing in Hello My Big Big Honey were collected over a
three year period in the bars of Bangkok's notorious
Patpong Road. The bargirl interviews were all done with working bargirls.

good...@my-dejanews.com

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Oct 7, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/7/98
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My two cents...

First, take the advice of "Ganderman" and read the book about chivalry. Us
men tend to do some pretty stupid things in the name of love and only end up
getting ourselves hurt with maybe a lesson learned.

Second, read some of the advice from Rinpoche (rinp...@pacific.net.sg). His
basic message addresses why so many farang go to Thailand and jump into
relationships and marriages with reckless abandon that they would never
sensibly do at home. He’s a pretty perceptive guy and my message to you is
the same.

Regardless of what answers you get, nobody can tell you for sure what your
situation is. There are bar girls that can fall in love with a farang and
make a good wife and love you forever. There are bar girls that have many
farang on the hook and are looking out only for themselves. Many, including
myself, would caution you the latter is statistically more likely to be true.
Consider that many of the women working in bars have significant personal
problems (whether doing it for mom or not) or they wouldn’t be there in the
first place. But this is just a generalization. I believe individual traits
are more defining than any stereotypes one can make based on profession or
culture.

Not really knowing the inputs and outputs in your situation, the best advice
I can give is to use a good, reliable process for how you go about this
relationship. Treat your relationship with her as you would any other at
home. Don’t make any unwise sacrifices. Don’t make excuses where you have
doubts. Think with your head and not your heart. Give yourself time. Don’t
try to be a hero. Don’t try to save her from the bar or from poverty. Give
a relationship time and you’ll eventually see if she’s willing to make
sacrifices for you out of love or not. Also, don’t think you can take any
big chances thinking your downside risk is just a few hundred bucks. Your
downside risk is not the toll it will take on your pocketbook but toll it
will take on your heart.

I’ve heard the "husband killed in a motorcycle accident" story often enough
that I’d be very wary with just that. It sounds to me like you already have
some doubts and are already making excuses or rationalizations. Try to give
it time, even though I know how hard it is to maintain a relationship
overseas. It really sucks, doesn’t it. That’s why it often doesn’t work,
because you end up doing stupid things in such an extreme situation. A
relationship at home doesn’t have those pressures.

So for my wrap-up (if you’re still awake), nobody can give you the magic
info/advice that gives you all the answers. Basically, you have to find your
own answers. So allow yourself the ability to do that and don’t treat your
relationship with her differently, less sensibly, than you would with somebody
from home. And best of luck.

Martin Donnelly

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Oct 7, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/7/98
to
>> Well, I've fallen in love with a lovely women in Bangkok, the problem
>> is she is a bar girl. A brief intro to this story is in order.

Follow Tchiowa's advice, and do be careful, you are very vulnerable at
the moment.


Regards,

Martin Donnelly Email: bul...@loxinfo.co.th

Please remove NOSPAM from reply to address

Posting From: N: 12 Deg - 54 mins - 31.9 secs - E: 100 Deg - 52mins - 15.6 secs

Dan Finn

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Oct 7, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/7/98
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On 6 Oct 1998 12:03:26 GMT, gand...@aol.com (Ganderman) wrote:

>
>>
>>Well, I've fallen in love with a lovely women in Bangkok, the problem
>>is she is a bar girl. A brief intro to this story is in order.
>>
>>

SNIP

>>
>>I will appreciate any advice and insight into all this. I know I have
>>almost written a novella on this. ;-) Please refrain from the quick
>>judgement of lying whore(I don't like this word at all) and such. I
>>would like some honest input on this.
>>
>>Thank you,
>> Dan
>></PRE></HTML>
>
>Go out and buy Laura Schlessinger's book "10 Stupid Things Men Do To Mess UP
>their Lives", and read the chapter about "Stupid Chivalry"...very carefully.


Yup, I am familiar with that concept. But if we are both happy AND I
can help her, is there a problem?

================================================
Dan Finn musqlar at bigfoot dot com
http://www.bigfoot.com/~musqlar
mfw : This ain't Spa Lady
http://mfw.tico.com

Dan Finn

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Oct 7, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/7/98
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On Tue, 06 Oct 1998 19:36:08 GMT, tch...@my-dejanews.com wrote:

>First warning: you're going to get a lot of responses from people who say
>that both you and she are scum and all Thai women are thieves and liars, etc.
>Ignore them.
>

Thank you for taking the time to read my rambling post and your very
sound advice.

>In article <361aef22...@news.erols.com>,
> musq...@SPAMbigfoot.com wrote:
>

>> Well, I've fallen in love with a lovely women in Bangkok, the problem
>> is she is a bar girl. A brief intro to this story is in order.
>

><snipped>


>
>> On night number 4 there she was in tears and gave me 'the story' "She
>> was married but her Thai husband was killed in a motorbike accident
>> and she had one child who lived with her past husbands mother. She
>> had only been in the bar for 2 years and did not like what she did.
>> Only had 3 or so customers a month. She was a bad a person and bad for
>> me as she had been with many men. She wants to be with me forever."
>>
>> So here are some of my questions:
>> 1. Why tell a story like this? It certainly doesn't enhance her
>> position in any way. Or is it just an explanation for what she does. I
>> can understand her job although I certainly do not like it in any
>> form.
>

>Exactly 2 possiblities: she's lying or she's not. She could be setting you up
>for the big fall. Sometime next month she gives you the next step of the sob
>story and asks for big money. Or she could be telling you the truth and
>wanting you to understand that she took the job she has out of desparation,
>not because she's a slut.
>

I can understand that desperate times call for desperate measures.
Although I do not like her job, I can accept it. I don't have to ever
like it, I just have to not dislike her because of it. I don't care
about her past. I am only interested in her future.


>Whatever she asks you for, are you prepared and capable of giving it? The, if
>you trust her, give it. Worst thing that can happen is you're out a few
>hundred bucks. You can afford it. Eat macaroni and cheese for a month to make
>up for the loss. You've got a job. You'll recover financially. If she's not
>lying, you win big time.
>

At this point I would give her close to anything, within reason, she
asks for. I'm not concerned about money, well, not too much. I'm more
concerned about giving my heart and having it broken.

>If you don't trust her, don't give her a thing and break it off. Better for
>both of you.
>

I want to trust her. Just hearing the motorbike story has me a little
spooked. There is nothing previously that I did not like. Perhaps
she is telling the truth and didn't tell me before because she thought
I would loose interest. I don't know. Only time will tell and I have
nothing but time.

Dan Finn

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Oct 7, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/7/98
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We have already decided that I will meet her mother on my next visit.
I mentioned I would like to meet her, and she agreed wholeheartedly.

Dan Finn

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Oct 7, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/7/98
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On 6 Oct 1998 21:12:42 GMT, eset...@aol.com (Eseth179) wrote:

>
>You asked so:
>
>If what you are considering is a good idea, it will still be a good idea a year
>from now.
>

Yes, I have to keep reminding myself of that. I just started a new job
stateside so I'm focusing on performing well and in 6 months I'll be
in Thailand again to visit. Meanwhile, it's writing letters all the
time and the phone calls.

>If is is still a good idea a year from now, you should not give a damn about
>her background. If you do still care about her backgorund, do her a favor and
>leave her alone. She deserves better
>

I really don't care about her past, only her future. I certainly don't
like her past, but I don't think I am required to.

>Thailsnd is a tough place. Women are forced into tough decisions whille still
>young girls. Mistakes get made. So what.
>

I understand that completely. I have been to MANY sad places in this
world as well as many beautiful ones. Sometimes bad things happen to
good people and their are few ways out. I wouldn't hold that against
anyone.

Dan Finn

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Oct 7, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/7/98
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On Tue, 06 Oct 1998 19:15:58 -0400, Kinnear <kin...@usol.com> wrote:

>If you really love her then her past doesnt matter. If you expect a virgin you will
>have a long wait or go after a girl of about 12-13 yrs old.
>

Not at all looking for a virgin. I myself am far from that.

>The line sounds like
>the common one however it COULD be true. You have to make a judgement about weather
>or not you can trust her. If the next line is something like you give me ( a lot of
>) money and i will join you in the USA then be careful that would be the coup de
>gras and probably you will never see her again.
>

We already discussed her visiting me here and she was very negative
about her chances about getting a visa. She didn't even seem to want
to try.

> There are a lot of good women in
>Thailand. I was lucky enough to find a good woman 30 yrs ago and have been happy
>ever since.
>

You are a very lucky man. I hope I have as much (luck.)

>You also could have a good woman here. You will have to make the
>decision by yourself, dont let alot of the bullshit you read in the NG influence
>you to much.
>

Thanks Jim, I'm taking everything with a grain of salk but also
remembering that many people have seen and lived through a lot more
than I have.

Dan Finn

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Oct 7, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/7/98
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On Tue, 6 Oct 1998 19:16:14 -0400, "maledetto"
<male...@mail.tqci.net> wrote:

>Don't go for it! Honestly, please don't do it. My take on the situation is
>she didn't tell you for such a long time about her 'misfortune' is that she
>decided that she could get more $'s from you this way. IMHO she took
>advantage of the situation between you and your fiancee (I assume that you
>told her all about it and also your growing feelings for her). This is a
>sure fire recipe for a scam.
>

Actually, when we met, I led to her as well. I felt it was easier
than explaining how unhappy my current(at that time) relationship was.
Hmm, now I was farang who was lying with the same old lie. Guess that
makes me kind of hypocritical. (I never said I wasn't an ass) On this
trip I told her all the sordid details of my past relationship and
that it is now over.

>Take care, hope this helps and hopefully everything will work out.
>

Thank you Randy.

Dan Finn

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Oct 7, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/7/98
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On Wed, 07 Oct 1998 00:08:28 GMT, good...@my-dejanews.com wrote:

>My two cents...
>
>First, take the advice of "Ganderman" and read the book about chivalry. Us
>men tend to do some pretty stupid things in the name of love and only end up
>getting ourselves hurt with maybe a lesson learned.
>

I've done many of those stupid things in the past. I can only hope I
have learned from them and no longer go in with blinders on.

>Second, read some of the advice from Rinpoche (rinp...@pacific.net.sg). His
>basic message addresses why so many farang go to Thailand and jump into
>relationships and marriages with reckless abandon that they would never
>sensibly do at home. He"s a pretty perceptive guy and my message to you is
>the same.
>

His post didn't show up on my server yet. I can't wait to read it.

>Also, don"t think you can take any
>big chances thinking your downside risk is just a few hundred bucks. Your
>downside risk is not the toll it will take on your pocketbook but toll it
>will take on your heart.
>

My thoughts exactly. I could not care less about money if I'm happy.


>So for my wrap-up (if you"re still awake), nobody can give you the magic
>info/advice that gives you all the answers. Basically, you have to find your
>own answers. So allow yourself the ability to do that and don"t treat your
>relationship with her differently, less sensibly, than you would with somebody
>from home. And best of luck.
>

Thanks for all the advice.

rinpoche

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Oct 7, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/7/98
to
> So here are some of my questions:
> 1. Why tell a story like this? It certainly doesn't enhance her
> position in any way. Or is it just an explanation for what she does. I
>
> can understand her job although I certainly do not like it in any
> form.

Telling you a story like that does indeed enhance her position. It begs
sympathy and may bring out that knight in shiny armour in you. She is
also opening herself up to you, explaining why she does what she does
with the hope that you will understand. If she were a materialistic
single girl looking for an easy way out, you would be less likely to
regard her with sympathy than if she had sick parents, jailed brothers,
dead/abusive husbands, starving children.

> 2. If this is all a hoax of some sort, why never ask me for money? Or
> is this a long range plan? Leading me along to get taken away from all
>
> this?

There is a possibility that she may be genuinely interested in you.
However, do remember that most scams start off this way. If you were
approached by a very kind gentleman who brings you on free temple tours,
explains things to you, treats you to lunches .... you may not suspect
anything when he brings you into a jewellery shop.

> I guess what really through me off was that damned story about the
> husband. It is almost exactly what I had read here only a few weeks
> before. If not for hearing the story, I would have very few
> reservations to be with her.

You're very lucky to have read the story. Don't let it make you
stereotype Thai women, but do let it instill some caution in you.

> In fact, a day or so before she
> told me, I was chatting with her sister. Her sister mentioned my
> friends child and when she saw the look of surprise on my face she
> quickly covered up and said she was only joking with me. Family wide
> scam or honest girl?

The Thais readily refer to a friend as a brother or sister. They may not
be related. Family wide scams are not uncommon, but even without prior
arrangement or any real intention to cheat, the Thais tend to support
and cover up the loopholes in one another's stories when dealing with an
outsider.

I do know a few men in my country who have married bar-girls in Thailand
and lived happily ever after. These are mostly uneducated men with a
very limited circle of friends. Yet, they knew exactly what they were in
for. They knew that the woman probably didn't love them in the way
Juliet loved Romeo. Marriage was an escape from poverty for the girls
and a chance of finding a wife in a highly competitive country for the
guys. If you are not in that situation, why not give yourself some time
and space to interact and expand your social circle in Thailand? Why not
try a little friendship while you get acquainted with the land, its
people and culture?

I believe you are neither crazy nor truly in love. There are lots of
charming and lovely ladies in Thailand. Most of them don't work in bars.
If you have met at least a score of lovely and charming Thai women from
all walks of life and one of them seems special, then you are probably
in love.

My friend, Pook is 26, reasonably attractive and has a real story of an
abusive husband whom she has recently left. She has no children and
works as a librarian in a university. Another friend, Ja is also 26, a
little overweight (by Thai standards) but still attractive, has never
been married and works as a dental assistant. Unfortunately, both women
don't speak any English at all. Neither will they go swimming with you
and there is certainly no guarantee that they will ever be interested in
you. You will also need to know Pook for a long time before she tells
you anything about her ex-husband. This is the reality of meaningful
relationships with decent Thai women.


rinpoche

unread,
Oct 7, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/7/98
to
> So here are some of my questions:
> 1. Why tell a story like this? It certainly doesn't enhance her
> position in any way. Or is it just an explanation for what she does. I

>
> can understand her job although I certainly do not like it in any
> form.

Telling you a story like that does indeed enhance her position. It begs


sympathy and may bring out that knight in shiny armour in you. She is
also opening herself up to you, explaining why she does what she does
with the hope that you will understand. If she were a materialistic
single girl looking for an easy way out, you would be less likely to
regard her with sympathy than if she had sick parents, jailed brothers,
dead/abusive husbands, starving children.

> 2. If this is all a hoax of some sort, why never ask me for money? Or


> is this a long range plan? Leading me along to get taken away from all

>
> this?

There is a possibility that she may be genuinely interested in you.


However, do remember that most scams start off this way. If you were
approached by a very kind gentleman who brings you on free temple tours,

explains things to you, treats you to lunches .... you may not suspect
anything when he brings you into a jewellery shop.

> I guess what really through me off was that damned story about the


> husband. It is almost exactly what I had read here only a few weeks
> before. If not for hearing the story, I would have very few
> reservations to be with her.

You're very lucky to have read the story. Don't let it make you


stereotype Thai women, but do let it instill some caution in you.

> In fact, a day or so before she


> told me, I was chatting with her sister. Her sister mentioned my
> friends child and when she saw the look of surprise on my face she
> quickly covered up and said she was only joking with me. Family wide
> scam or honest girl?

The Thais readily refer to a friend as a brother or sister. They may not

Rinpoche

unread,
Oct 7, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/7/98
to
> So here are some of my questions:
> 1. Why tell a story like this? It certainly doesn't enhance her
> position in any way. Or is it just an explanation for what she does. I
>
> can understand her job although I certainly do not like it in any
> form.
Telling you a story like that does indeed enhance her position. It begs
sympathy and may bring out that knight in shiny armour in you. She is
also opening herself up to you, explaining why she does what she does
with the hope that you will understand. If she were a materialistic
single girl looking for an easy way out, you would be less likely to
regard her with sympathy than if she had sick parents, jailed brothers,
dead/abusive husbands, starving children.
> 2. If this is all a hoax of some sort, why never ask me for money? Or
> is this a long range plan? Leading me along to get taken away from all
>
> this?
There is a possibility that she may be genuinely interested in you.
However, do remember that most scams start off this way. If you were
approached by a very kind gentleman who brings you on free temple tours,
explains things to you, treats you to lunches .... you may not suspect
anything when he brings you into a jewellery shop.
> I guess what really through me off was that damned story about the
> husband. It is almost exactly what I had read here only a few weeks
> before. If not for hearing the story, I would have very few
> reservations to be with her.
You're very lucky to have read the story. Don't let it make you
stereotype Thai women, but do let it instill some caution in you.
> In fact, a day or so before she
> told me, I was chatting with her sister. Her sister mentioned my
> friends child and when she saw the look of surprise on my face she
> quickly covered up and said she was only joking with me. Family wide
> scam or honest girl?

Tom Clasener

unread,
Oct 7, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/7/98
to
On Wed, 07 Oct 1998 02:15:31 GMT, musq...@SPAMbigfoot.com (Dan Finn)
wrote:

>>
>We already discussed her visiting me here and she was very negative
>about her chances about getting a visa. She didn't even seem to want
>to try.

W A R N I N G ....... W A R N I N G........ The obvious signs are
there for all to see!! How does she know? And has she been OS prior
with some other farang before you? Tread carefully my friend!

Tom

tch...@my-dejanews.com

unread,
Oct 7, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/7/98
to
Quick thought, Dan. Can you afford $300-$400 a month for a few months? Reason
I ask is that if she is a bar-girl as opposed to a go-go dancer and going out
3 or 4 times a month with farangs as she says, then she's making about $300 a
month or a little less. If you can afford it, suggest she quit her job and
you will support her. If she accepts, and then follows through (that's the
kicker) then you know you're right.

Further, if you decided to marry her someday, the fact that you've been
supporting her for a few months will provide all the proof the INS wants to
get her a fiancee visa.

Now, how are you going to know if she's following through? I dunno. Does she
have a phone? You can call he during the evening from time to time. That won't
work, of course, if it's a cel phone.

Just a suggestion. I know a few guys who have tried that. Some succeeded,
others didn't.


In article <361ece15...@news.erols.com>,


musq...@SPAMbigfoot.com wrote:
> On Tue, 06 Oct 1998 19:15:58 -0400, Kinnear <kin...@usol.com> wrote:
>
> >If you really love her then her past doesnt matter. If you expect a virgin
you will
> >have a long wait or go after a girl of about 12-13 yrs old.
> >
> Not at all looking for a virgin. I myself am far from that.
>
> >The line sounds like
> >the common one however it COULD be true. You have to make a judgement about
weather
> >or not you can trust her. If the next line is something like you give me ( a
lot of
> >) money and i will join you in the USA then be careful that would be the
coup de
> >gras and probably you will never see her again.
> >

> We already discussed her visiting me here and she was very negative
> about her chances about getting a visa. She didn't even seem to want
> to try.
>

> > There are a lot of good women in
> >Thailand. I was lucky enough to find a good woman 30 yrs ago and have been
happy
> >ever since.
> >
> You are a very lucky man. I hope I have as much (luck.)
>
> >You also could have a good woman here. You will have to make the
> >decision by yourself, dont let alot of the bullshit you read in the NG
influence
> >you to much.
> >
> Thanks Jim, I'm taking everything with a grain of salk but also
> remembering that many people have seen and lived through a lot more
> than I have.
>

> ================================================
> Dan Finn musqlar at bigfoot dot com
> http://www.bigfoot.com/~musqlar
> mfw : This ain't Spa Lady
> http://mfw.tico.com
>


--

Tchi...@HoTMaiL.com

wel...@loxinfo.co.th

unread,
Oct 7, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/7/98
to
Dan Finn wrote:
> Well, I've fallen in love with a lovely women in Bangkok, the problem
> is she is a bar girl. A brief intro to this story is in order.

After all the good advices you already received, I would like to add a few
words that I hope will be helpful

> On night number 4 there she was in tears and gave me 'the story' "She
> was married but her Thai husband was killed in a motorbike accident

> and she had one child who lived with her past husbands mother.......

> So here are some of my questions:

........

> I guess what really through me off was that damned story about the
> husband. It is almost exactly what I had read here only a few weeks
> before. If not for hearing the story, I would have very few
> reservations to be with her.

My second wife had a boy friend who "gave" her a kid and then almost
disapeared. from her life... After the birth he came only once and just for a
few minutes and left leaving behind him a 100 baht to help her raise his
child!!!! and we didn't hear about him till we learned that he died in a
motorcycle accident... ........

>If not for hearing the story, I would have very few
> reservations to be with her.

> In fact, a day or so before she


> told me, I was chatting with her sister. Her sister mentioned my
> friends child and when she saw the look of surprise on my face she
> quickly covered up and said she was only joking with me. Family wide
> scam or honest girl?

The easiest explanation is that the "sister" - seeing how closed you were -
thought that she already had told you about the child. When she saw that you
looked surprise, the quickly covered up... Wouldn't you do the same for a
brother or a friend?

For me the only problem is the fact that the child stay with her ex-husband's
mother. You have to find out why. It is unusual because in Thailand the woman
as all the rights in regard to her child. The husband doesn't have any right
unless given by a judge for some good reason.

Most of the time a girl who get a child and doesn't have the time to raise
him, will give it to her own mother.

Now one advice coming from my experience as a hotel owner with a lot of
customers having fall in love with Thai girls/women.

Remember that all women -farang or Thai- behave the same way when in love.
What I want to say is that if she doesn't show her love, doesn't show a real
desire to be with you, spend time with you, share emotions, souvenirs, pain
and/or hapiness with you, never makes the slightest gift (if you make
gifts).... she simply doesn't love you the way you understand love.

I have seen a lot of farang spending time and money with their "love" who
didn't really care. All their friends saw the truth, BUT them because they
wanted to believed that Thai women are not at all similar to other women and
has learn from birth to hide their feelings.

If you don't believe me, just look to gitls with their Thai boy friends.

Marc

hof...@worldonline.nl

unread,
Oct 7, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/7/98
to
In article <19981006164632...@ng39.aol.com>,

chr...@aol.com (CHRIS6G) wrote:
>
> In my view it seems, tchiowa gave you very good advice. It IS REALLY DIFFICULT!
> May be she is one of the best chances you ever met. May be she is not. So: take
> car to loose not too much money and heart. But you should know much more from
> here. And specially her family! Sometimes the family ahs a gigantic mouth and
> stomach... But that says not anything about HER character. A diificult way.. I
> went a way like this. and since five years I am happy... instead I geave much
> money to help her and her family. But this never was so much to destroy me!
>

I am in a simular situation. I met a girl in Pattaya who also was a bargirl.
I am using a wheelchair so I need 24 hours help every day. This girl did a
great job in assisting me and keeping me company and we became closer every
day. She is 22 years old and she was working in Pattaya for 3 months. During
the last three months her mother died, her daughter went to her ex husbands
parents and she started to become a bargirl. While in Pattaya I have tried to
protect her as much as possible and we had only sex if she wanted to, so I
treated her as my girlfriend and not as a hooker. The last few days we were
crying a lot and I felt terrible that I had to leave her behind in Pattaya.
We agreed that she would go to Holland in december for three months to spend
some time together and then maybe to build a future for us. Back in Holland I
felt very bad. The idea that she had to go with men made me crazy. One week
later I called her and offered her to help her. I would send her some money
to take care of her daughter for three months(till she comes to Holland) but
then she had to stop working. She told me that she already had stopped for
me. Some Thai friend told me that this was true. Now this girl is totaly
depending on me but this is the price I have to pay for three months. And I
want to give her a real chance because I love her. I think she deserves that.

Eddy

Dan Finn

unread,
Oct 7, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/7/98
to
On Wed, 07 Oct 1998 06:44:15 GMT, tom...@metva.com.au (Tom Clasener)
wrote:

>On Wed, 07 Oct 1998 02:15:31 GMT, musq...@SPAMbigfoot.com (Dan Finn)
>wrote:
>
>>>

>>We already discussed her visiting me here and she was very negative
>>about her chances about getting a visa. She didn't even seem to want
>>to try.
>

>W A R N I N G ....... W A R N I N G........ The obvious signs are
>there for all to see!! How does she know? And has she been OS prior
>with some other farang before you? Tread carefully my friend!
>

Well, in my time there I got to know all the girls working at the bar.
Again, this is a little bar with one pool table and no dancing or
anything. Just a place to drink beer and shoot pool. Well, many of
these girls have boyfriends oversees and one is headed to Sweden to
get married in a few months and seems genuinely excited about it. Her
sister has an American boyfriend (as well as a German one) and she had
also told me it is hard to get an American visa. I'm sure the girls
talk and spread that information. Heck, we do.

Another thing I had forgotten to mention, the bar is a nice
atmosphere. There are two farang that still come to the bar with
their Thai wife that the met and married at the bar! Is this normal?
I take it as a sign that this is not all that bad a place. I mean,
these are not the girls that are dancing and getting men every night.
I saw her apartment, it is shared with 5 other girls and is tiny. It
does not look like the place of a woman making even 30,000 Baht a
month.

dbr...@hotmail.com

unread,
Oct 7, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/7/98
to
In article <361aef22...@news.erols.com>,
musq...@SPAMbigfoot.com wrote:

Both, but so many have gone before.

At the risk of generalising, there is an old adage - "You can take the girl
out of the bar, but never the bar out of the girl." True in most cases.

More than most such relationships fail when you get the girl back to the cold
light of Western culture, and the sweet veneer of honey peels away to reveal
the uneducated culturally unadaptable interior.

Try to make amends with your fiancee, and put your recent experience down as a
sweet memory that must remain a memory.

BTW: Don't interpret "free sex" from a bar girl as free - call it "investment
sex," or "payment on easy terms sex." Sorry to disappoint you, and I excuse
and ignore all the flames that no doubt will follow........

dbr...@hotmail.com

unread,
Oct 7, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/7/98
to
In article <6vfqsm$1p9$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>,

tch...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
> Quick thought, Dan. Can you afford $300-$400 a month for a few months? Reason
> I ask is that if she is a bar-girl as opposed to a go-go dancer and going out
> 3 or 4 times a month with farangs as she says, then she's making about $300 a
> month or a little less. If you can afford it, suggest she quit her job and
> you will support her. If she accepts, and then follows through (that's the
> kicker) then you know you're right.

Unrealistic. A great deal of well meaning men pay these girls generously, and
the girl in turn treats them as a "sponsor" and continues working. Some girls
have three or four such "sponsors" and continue working at the bar so that
they can show off to their mates. Good income. When the "sponsors' come to
visit, they go on leave and take them home so that they can spend their
holiday money on the extended poverty stricken family.

Unfortunately, her institution is a bar, and likely always will be. After the
"bright lights," she would be bored to death staying at home away from her
friends and watching television. Read the "Trink Page" and you will see many
such stories.

Sorry to appear so cynical Dan, but that's the way it usually is with bar
girls. They are excellent actresses, and are at times incredibly convincing.

>
> Further, if you decided to marry her someday, the fact that you've been
> supporting her for a few months will provide all the proof the INS wants to
> get her a fiancee visa.
>
> Now, how are you going to know if she's following through? I dunno. Does she
> have a phone? You can call he during the evening from time to time. That won't
> work, of course, if it's a cel phone.
>
> Just a suggestion. I know a few guys who have tried that. Some succeeded,
> others didn't.
>
> In article <361ece15...@news.erols.com>,
> musq...@SPAMbigfoot.com wrote:
> > On Tue, 06 Oct 1998 19:15:58 -0400, Kinnear <kin...@usol.com> wrote:
> >
> > >If you really love her then her past doesnt matter. If you expect a virgin
> you will
> > >have a long wait or go after a girl of about 12-13 yrs old.
> > >
> > Not at all looking for a virgin. I myself am far from that.
> >
> > >The line sounds like
> > >the common one however it COULD be true. You have to make a judgement about
> weather
> > >or not you can trust her. If the next line is something like you give me (
a
> lot of
> > >) money and i will join you in the USA then be careful that would be the
> coup de
> > >gras and probably you will never see her again.
> > >

> > We already discussed her visiting me here and she was very negative
> > about her chances about getting a visa. She didn't even seem to want
> > to try.
> >

> > > There are a lot of good women in
> > >Thailand. I was lucky enough to find a good woman 30 yrs ago and have been
> happy
> > >ever since.
> > >
> > You are a very lucky man. I hope I have as much (luck.)
> >
> > >You also could have a good woman here. You will have to make the
> > >decision by yourself, dont let alot of the bullshit you read in the NG
> influence
> > >you to much.
> > >
> > Thanks Jim, I'm taking everything with a grain of salk but also
> > remembering that many people have seen and lived through a lot more
> > than I have.
> >

> > ================================================
> > Dan Finn musqlar at bigfoot dot com
> > http://www.bigfoot.com/~musqlar
> > mfw : This ain't Spa Lady
> > http://mfw.tico.com
> >
>

> --
>
> Tchi...@HoTMaiL.com

Ken

unread,
Oct 7, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/7/98
to
In article <6vfq5e$vi$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, wel...@loxinfo.co.th says...

>
>Now one advice coming from my experience as a hotel owner with a lot of
>customers having fall in love with Thai girls/women.
>
>Remember that all women -farang or Thai- behave the same way when in love.
>What I want to say is that if she doesn't show her love, doesn't show a real
>desire to be with you, spend time with you, share emotions, souvenirs, pain
>and/or hapiness with you, never makes the slightest gift (if you make
>gifts).... she simply doesn't love you the way you understand love.
>
>I have seen a lot of farang spending time and money with their "love" who
>didn't really care. All their friends saw the truth, BUT them because they
>wanted to believed that Thai women are not at all similar to other women and
>has learn from birth to hide their feelings.
>

I agree with Marc. It is quite pathetic to hear male tourists go on and on
about how much THEY love a particular girl in the bar, without any interest
in how that woman may feel about him. It's fine when you know you are paying
for her company and don't give squat what the girl thinks, but in many cases
the 'john' thinks the girl MUST love him because HE loves the girl.Too many
tourists want to believe that we are 'special' and don't stop to consider
that you are simply her 'job' and that there is going to be another one of
you getting off the plane the moment you get onto it.There does seem to be an
endless supply of us.

regards.......Ken


dbr...@hotmail.com

unread,
Oct 7, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/7/98
to
In article <361b0d35...@news.metva.com.au>,

tom...@metva.com.au (Tom Clasener) wrote:
> On Wed, 07 Oct 1998 02:15:31 GMT, musq...@SPAMbigfoot.com (Dan Finn)
> wrote:
>
> >>
> >We already discussed her visiting me here and she was very negative
> >about her chances about getting a visa. She didn't even seem to want
> >to try.
>
> W A R N I N G ....... W A R N I N G........ The obvious signs are
> there for all to see!! How does she know? And has she been OS prior
> with some other farang before you? Tread carefully my friend!
>
> Tom
>

Unfortunately, Tom's right. Why doesn't she want to try for a visa? Has she
tried before? All bar girls know that its difficult to get visas, but that
doesn't stop them trying - I spotted half a dozen tourist/bar girl combos on
my last trip to the British Embassy.

Just write it off as a happy but unrepeatable experience. You know what they
say about paradise revisited.

tch...@my-dejanews.com

unread,
Oct 7, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/7/98
to
In article <6vfp42$vau$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>,

Interesting story. I hope it works out. Keep us informed.

--

Tchi...@HoTMaiL.com

tch...@my-dejanews.com

unread,
Oct 7, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/7/98
to
In article <361b660...@news.erols.com>,
musq...@SPAMbigfoot.com wrote:
> On Wed, 07 Oct 1998 06:44:15 GMT, tom...@metva.com.au (Tom Clasener)

> wrote:
>
> >On Wed, 07 Oct 1998 02:15:31 GMT, musq...@SPAMbigfoot.com (Dan Finn)
> >wrote:
> >
> >>>
> >>We already discussed her visiting me here and she was very negative
> >>about her chances about getting a visa. She didn't even seem to want
> >>to try.
> >
> >W A R N I N G ....... W A R N I N G........ The obvious signs are
> >there for all to see!! How does she know? And has she been OS prior
> >with some other farang before you? Tread carefully my friend!
> >
> Well, in my time there I got to know all the girls working at the bar.
> Again, this is a little bar with one pool table and no dancing or
> anything. Just a place to drink beer and shoot pool. Well, many of
> these girls have boyfriends oversees and one is headed to Sweden to
> get married in a few months and seems genuinely excited about it. Her
> sister has an American boyfriend (as well as a German one) and she had
> also told me it is hard to get an American visa. I'm sure the girls
> talk and spread that information. Heck, we do.

I agree. The girls are all well aware of how difficult it is, particularly at
the American embassy. It's not just because of the type of work they do. It's
because of the low pay. They're considered "marginally employed" and the US
embassy believes that any person, particularly a single girl, who is
"marginally employed" is a risk to let into the US because they're likely not
to leave. So they simply won't give them a tourist visa. And all the girls
know it because they all know one or two girls who've tried it.

> Another thing I had forgotten to mention, the bar is a nice
> atmosphere. There are two farang that still come to the bar with
> their Thai wife that the met and married at the bar! Is this normal?
> I take it as a sign that this is not all that bad a place. I mean,
> these are not the girls that are dancing and getting men every night.
> I saw her apartment, it is shared with 5 other girls and is tiny. It
> does not look like the place of a woman making even 30,000 Baht a
> month.

She doesn't make even anywhere near 30,000 baht a month. If she's lucky she
makes half that. The bar probably pays her about 4,000 a month.

I'd be interested in knowing what your final decision is on how you're
proceeding. If you stick with her, let me know how it works out.

> ================================================
> Dan Finn musqlar at bigfoot dot com
> http://www.bigfoot.com/~musqlar
> mfw : This ain't Spa Lady
> http://mfw.tico.com
>

John Sharman

unread,
Oct 7, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/7/98
to
In article <6vg77t$tsa$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com> dbr...@hotmail.com writes:

> In article <361b0d35...@news.metva.com.au>,
> tom...@metva.com.au (Tom Clasener) wrote:

[..]

> Unfortunately, Tom's right. Why doesn't she want to try for a visa? Has she

She has probably realised that he will expect her to pay the application
fee herself.
--
Regards,

John Sharman
+====================================================================+
| John Sharman Internet: jay...@norvic.demon.co.uk |
| Tel/Fax: +44 (0)1603 452142 |
+====================================================================+


Dan Finn

unread,
Oct 8, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/8/98
to
On Wed, 07 Oct 1998 20:26:31 GMT, tch...@my-dejanews.com wrote:

>In article <361b660...@news.erols.com>,
> musq...@SPAMbigfoot.com wrote:

>> Another thing I had forgotten to mention, the bar is a nice
>> atmosphere. There are two farang that still come to the bar with
>> their Thai wife that the met and married at the bar! Is this normal?
>> I take it as a sign that this is not all that bad a place. I mean,
>> these are not the girls that are dancing and getting men every night.
>> I saw her apartment, it is shared with 5 other girls and is tiny. It
>> does not look like the place of a woman making even 30,000 Baht a
>> month.
>
>She doesn't make even anywhere near 30,000 baht a month. If she's lucky she
>makes half that. The bar probably pays her about 4,000 a month.
>

Well, that was my point. If she was lying to me and turning tricks
more often, I would have to imagine she would have more money and more
material things. Granted, I have no idea what the going rate is and I
don't want to ask, but I would imagine it is at least 1000 Baht.

>I'd be interested in knowing what your final decision is on how you're
>proceeding. If you stick with her, let me know how it works out.
>

I'll keep the group posted, but not to many details. ;-)

Dan Finn

unread,
Oct 8, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/8/98
to
On Wed, 07 Oct 1998 13:26:05 GMT, wel...@loxinfo.co.th wrote:

>Dan Finn wrote:
>> Well, I've fallen in love with a lovely women in Bangkok, the problem
>> is she is a bar girl. A brief intro to this story is in order.
>

>After all the good advices you already received, I would like to add a few
>words that I hope will be helpful
>

>> On night number 4 there she was in tears and gave me 'the story' "She
>> was married but her Thai husband was killed in a motorbike accident

>> and she had one child who lived with her past husbands mother.......


>
>> So here are some of my questions:

>........


>
>> I guess what really through me off was that damned story about the
>> husband. It is almost exactly what I had read here only a few weeks
>> before. If not for hearing the story, I would have very few
>> reservations to be with her.
>

>My second wife had a boy friend who "gave" her a kid and then almost
>disapeared. from her life... After the birth he came only once and just for a
>few minutes and left leaving behind him a 100 baht to help her raise his
>child!!!! and we didn't hear about him till we learned that he died in a
>motorcycle accident... ........
>

>>If not for hearing the story, I would have very few
>> reservations to be with her.
>

>> In fact, a day or so before she
>> told me, I was chatting with her sister. Her sister mentioned my
>> friends child and when she saw the look of surprise on my face she
>> quickly covered up and said she was only joking with me. Family wide
>> scam or honest girl?
>

>The easiest explanation is that the "sister" - seeing how closed you were -
>thought that she already had told you about the child. When she saw that you
>looked surprise, the quickly covered up... Wouldn't you do the same for a
>brother or a friend?
>

Sure. And if the motorbike story is true, I have no problem with it.
Heck, I didn't tell her I had a fiancee when we first met. Some
things just aren't easy to explain initially. I just want the truth
from her, no matter how painful. I really hope I am getting it from
her. My point on the sister was to lend credence to story and its
credibility.

>Remember that all women -farang or Thai- behave the same way when in love.
>What I want to say is that if she doesn't show her love, doesn't show a real
>desire to be with you, spend time with you, share emotions, souvenirs, pain
>and/or hapiness with you, never makes the slightest gift (if you make
>gifts).... she simply doesn't love you the way you understand love.
>

Exactly, women are enigmatic at best, no matter what country they are
from.

Dan Finn

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Oct 8, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/8/98
to
On 7 Oct 1998 16:26:30 GMT, cha...@island.net (Ken) wrote:

>In article <6vfq5e$vi$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, wel...@loxinfo.co.th says...
>
>>
>>Now one advice coming from my experience as a hotel owner with a lot of
>>customers having fall in love with Thai girls/women.
>>

>>Remember that all women -farang or Thai- behave the same way when in love.
>>What I want to say is that if she doesn't show her love, doesn't show a real
>>desire to be with you, spend time with you, share emotions, souvenirs, pain
>>and/or hapiness with you, never makes the slightest gift (if you make
>>gifts).... she simply doesn't love you the way you understand love.
>>

>>I have seen a lot of farang spending time and money with their "love" who
>>didn't really care. All their friends saw the truth, BUT them because they
>>wanted to believed that Thai women are not at all similar to other women and
>>has learn from birth to hide their feelings.
>>
>
>I agree with Marc. It is quite pathetic to hear male tourists go on and on
>about how much THEY love a particular girl in the bar, without any interest
>in how that woman may feel about him. It's fine when you know you are paying
>for her company and don't give squat what the girl thinks, but in many cases
>the 'john' thinks the girl MUST love him because HE loves the girl.Too many
>tourists want to believe that we are 'special' and don't stop to consider
>that you are simply her 'job' and that there is going to be another one of
>you getting off the plane the moment you get onto it.There does seem to be an
>endless supply of us.
>

They are there, I have seen them. On this account, I can rely on my
co-workers who were there on the past trip. They could all see there
was something special about her and the way she acted around me. In
fact, my manager is convinced we will be married.

Dan Finn

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Oct 8, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/8/98
to
On Wed, 07 Oct 1998 16:49:03 GMT, dbr...@hotmail.com wrote:

>
>At the risk of generalising, there is an old adage - "You can take the girl
>out of the bar, but never the bar out of the girl." True in most cases.
>

I have seen this. Even though she was free from the bar we still went
there for a beer or two each night although, I also wanted to go there
and have a beer. ;-) But then, I work on computers 12 hours a day and
here I am at home typing away and rebuilding my NT server when I
should be in bed dreaming.

>More than most such relationships fail when you get the girl back to the cold
>light of Western culture, and the sweet veneer of honey peels away to reveal
>the uneducated culturally unadaptable interior.
>

I am actually looking into a job in Thailand. I am trying VERY hard
not to let this relationship influence my decision. I fell in love
with the country on my first trip and had been thinking of moving
there. The only thing that held me back at that point was my fiancee
(now former.) Also, it was not just Bangkok that I have seen and
liked.

Dan Finn

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Oct 8, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/8/98
to
On Wed, 07 Oct 1998 20:26:31 GMT, tch...@my-dejanews.com wrote:

>I'd be interested in knowing what your final decision is on how you're
>proceeding. If you stick with her, let me know how it works out.
>

One more side not, I don't remember the post but there was mention of
many Thai girls out there and another of many young Thai girls out
there. I just to clear up if there is any confusion.

1. I was not setting out to find anyone on my trip when I met her.
2. I do not HAVE to marry a Thai girl. I want to marry a woman I love
and trust. It just so happens that this one is Thai.
3. I am only 29 years old and she is 28. I'm not some guy facing a mid
life crisis looking for a young trophy wife.

I hope none of that sounds defensive or angry. I just wanted to add
all that to the story.

jeff...@my-dejanews.com

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Oct 8, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/8/98
to
In article <6vfqsm$1p9$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>,
tch...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
> Quick thought, Dan. Can you afford $300-$400 a month for a few months? Reason
> I ask is that if she is a bar-girl as opposed to a go-go dancer and going out
> 3 or 4 times a month with farangs as she says, then she's making about $300 a
> month or a little less. If you can afford it, suggest she quit her job and
> you will support her. If she accepts, and then follows through (that's the
> kicker) then you know you're right.

One question and one observation:

Question - what is the distinction you're making between a "bar girl" and a
"go-go dancer"? To clarify, I've always used the term "bar girl" to include
"go-go dancers", the service staff (waitresses and bartenders) as well as the
"freelancers" at beer bars. If my usage is not the common usage, I'd like to
be corrected to avoid potential misunderstandings.

Observation - I like your suggestion. After going out regularly with a go-go
dancer for about a month, and figuring out how much of my money was going to
the bar and not to her, I made such an offer in the price range you mention.
At the time I only expected to be in Thailand for another 9 months, and I
told her that I hoped she'd use the time and money to improve herself so that
she wouldn't have to go back to the bar when I left. The dancing was a
second, night-job, to supplement her meager day-job earnings. I'm impressed,
though it's straining the relationship, because recently she's done exactly
that - she left the day-job and opened a typical, small restaurant and is
working hard at it. It's too soon to tell, but I hope it works out for her.
It remains to be seen whether she will want to come with me when I return to
the USA - she is not comfortable outside the Thai environment, and has a very
strong, traditional Thai family ethic - but she is anxious to go with me to
the USA for a holiday to see what it is like. It may be ironic that by
helping her improve her position in Thailand, she may be less inclined to
leave for a foreign land. But, if I don't give her my trust and support (I'm
not talking financial support), how can I reasonably expect her to have faith
in me and ultimately have the confidence in me and desire to come with me
when I leave?

>
> Further, if you decided to marry her someday, the fact that you've been
> supporting her for a few months will provide all the proof the INS wants to
> get her a fiancee visa.

My understanding is that fiancee visas can take a long time to get (months),
but I haven't heard any reports on how difficult it is other than the time
involved. I have heard many stories from irate Americans about how hard it
is to get tourist visas for an average (i.e. not important) Thai woman, and
virtually impossible for a "bar-girl". My girlfriend had no problem getting
a tourist visa, although she did not meet all of the criteria that are
identified as important considerations. I think the deciding element in her
favor was that I was able to demonstrate that I myself would be returning to
Thailand with her.

rinpoche

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Oct 8, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/8/98
to
Dan Finn wrote:

> I am actually looking into a job in Thailand. I am trying VERY hard
> not to let this relationship influence my decision.

From what I can see, your relationship is *the main thing* that is
influencing your decision. What have you heard about working in
Thailand? The bosses are extra kind? Employee welfare is extra good? The
pay is extra high? The job is extra easy? Are these the factors
influencing your decision, or is "something else" the only thing that is
influencing your decision?

Even though a few expatriates with special skills do get very good deals
in Thailand, I feel that unless you are thinking of starting a big
business which takes advantage of cheap raw materials in Thailand, there
is very little pragmatic justification for finding a job there.

> I fell in love
> with the country on my first trip and had been thinking of moving
> there.

You seem to believe in love at first sight. Well, that makes two of us,
but loving a place and moving there are two different things. Loving is
something you can do in bed (or even in front of your computer monitor)
10,000km away in any direction. Moving there brings you in close
proximity with harsh realities, most of which you are obviously still
discovering and uncertain about whether you can tolerate.

I too fell in love with Thailand 15 years ago. Then, Thailand fitted my
definition of paradise perfectly. I loved the freedom, the easygoing
nature, the friendliness .... I was keen on finding a job, marrying a
Thai woman and I felt very happy when I was mistaken for a Thai. I still
like the place a lot and I still plan to move there, but I can tell you
with certainty that my view of Thailand now is not only different, but
quite the opposite of what it was 15 years ago. I will also only move
there after retirement.


rinpoche

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Oct 8, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/8/98
to
Dan Finn wrote:

> They are there, I have seen them. On this account, I can rely on my
> co-workers who were there on the past trip. They could all see there
> was something special about her and the way she acted around me. In
> fact, my manager is convinced we will be married.
>

> ================================================
> Dan Finn musqlar at bigfoot dot com
> http://www.bigfoot.com/~musqlar
> mfw : This ain't Spa Lady
> http://mfw.tico.com

Dear Dan,

If you were to start a relationship with any of the decent Thai girls
whom I know, they are very likely to expect gifts from you in the form
of gold and jewellery. They are likely to bring friends on dates with
you and tehy are likely to expect you to be generous with their friends
too.

They will also expect you to send them some spending money when you have
gone home. Your co-workers and manager may not think much of these
women, but their actions may have nothing to do with cheating at all.
These girls can be very faithful. They are just being themselves and
expecting from you what they would expect from Thai men.

On the other hand, your girlfriend is a professional. She knows what
makes a farang tick and what kind of moves will make him drop his guard.
I'm not trying to judge your girlfriend, but I thought you might want to
know just how good some of these "professionals" are.


Dan Finn

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Oct 8, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/8/98
to
On Thu, 08 Oct 1998 04:09:56 GMT, jeff...@my-dejanews.com wrote:

>In article <6vfqsm$1p9$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>,
> tch...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
>> Quick thought, Dan. Can you afford $300-$400 a month for a few months? Reason
>> I ask is that if she is a bar-girl as opposed to a go-go dancer and going out
>> 3 or 4 times a month with farangs as she says, then she's making about $300 a
>> month or a little less. If you can afford it, suggest she quit her job and
>> you will support her. If she accepts, and then follows through (that's the
>> kicker) then you know you're right.
>
>One question and one observation:
>
>Question - what is the distinction you're making between a "bar girl" and a
>"go-go dancer"? To clarify, I've always used the term "bar girl" to include
>"go-go dancers", the service staff (waitresses and bartenders) as well as the
>"freelancers" at beer bars. If my usage is not the common usage, I'd like to
>be corrected to avoid potential misunderstandings.
>

Well, my definition is by no means final, but I was making the
differentiation as this bar has no dancing or anything. I probable
have a skewed view, but I'm under the impression the go-go dancing
girls do a lot more 'work' than the girls working at the beer bars.

rinpoche

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Oct 8, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/8/98
to
Dan Finn wrote:

> Exactly, women are enigmatic at best, no matter what country they are
> from.
>

> ================================================
> Dan Finn musqlar at bigfoot dot com
> http://www.bigfoot.com/~musqlar
> mfw : This ain't Spa Lady
> http://mfw.tico.com

And beautiful women everywhere have many admirers. She could already
have a boyfriend(s) who will not react too kindly to competition from a
farang. Do also consider the possibility that you may find her very
violent husband (very much alive) running after you with a knife. I'm
not imagining things. I've seen such things happening before. Take care.


tch...@my-dejanews.com

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Oct 8, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/8/98
to
In article <361f204f...@news.erols.com>,

musq...@SPAMbigfoot.com wrote:
> On Wed, 07 Oct 1998 16:49:03 GMT, dbr...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> >
> >At the risk of generalising, there is an old adage - "You can take the girl
> >out of the bar, but never the bar out of the girl." True in most cases.
> >
> I have seen this. Even though she was free from the bar we still went
> there for a beer or two each night although, I also wanted to go there
> and have a beer. ;-) But then, I work on computers 12 hours a day and
> here I am at home typing away and rebuilding my NT server when I
> should be in bed dreaming.

Actually, if it comes down to it, you should be much more ashamed of working
on NT servers than marrying a bar girl.

Actually I guess working on NT servers isn't that bad. Just make sure you do
it in private and wash your hands after you're through.

--

Tchi...@HoTMaiL.com

C G Barlow

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Oct 8, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/8/98
to
Dan -

When I met my girl 10 months ago I set my 'default mode' at
DISBELIEF which I feel is wise at the start of any relationship
especially in a different country and culture where rip-offs abound.
However I checked out everything she told me and found no
discrepancies so now I have changed to BELIEF. The trust is mutual
eg I pay her an agreed sum by the month but she never asks for it and
trusts me to pay towards the END of each month.
As far as continuing to work in the bar goes my girl dances in a
go-go when I am away which is good for her (the money, friends,
something to occupy her) but she rarely takes men; this is her idea
not mine as I have told her I have no objection when I am not there.)
I have no intention or need to bring her to Europe to live, maybe
just for a few month's holiday, but she has already lived in the UK,
France (speaks French!), Norway, Dubai etc. Some of them are much
more sophisticated than you might think.
I suggest you take it easy, do not prejudge the issue, check out
everything without saying you do not believe what she tells you, be
wary but don't assume anything, keep your critical faculties on alert
as you seem to - you might have found a gem as I believe I have.

Craig


tch...@my-dejanews.com

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Oct 8, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/8/98
to
In article <6vhduk$2va$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>,

jeff...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
> In article <6vfqsm$1p9$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>,
> tch...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
> > Quick thought, Dan. Can you afford $300-$400 a month for a few months?
Reason
> > I ask is that if she is a bar-girl as opposed to a go-go dancer and going
out
> > 3 or 4 times a month with farangs as she says, then she's making about $300
a
> > month or a little less. If you can afford it, suggest she quit her job and
> > you will support her. If she accepts, and then follows through (that's the
> > kicker) then you know you're right.
>
> One question and one observation:
>
> Question - what is the distinction you're making between a "bar girl" and a
> "go-go dancer"? To clarify, I've always used the term "bar girl" to include
> "go-go dancers", the service staff (waitresses and bartenders) as well as the
> "freelancers" at beer bars. If my usage is not the common usage, I'd like to
> be corrected to avoid potential misunderstandings.

There are also girls working in beer bars that simply sit with the customers.
No dancing involved, just conversation. But, bottom line as you say, it's
pretty much the same thing.

<snipped>

> My understanding is that fiancee visas can take a long time to get (months),
> but I haven't heard any reports on how difficult it is other than the time
> involved. I have heard many stories from irate Americans about how hard it
> is to get tourist visas for an average (i.e. not important) Thai woman, and
> virtually impossible for a "bar-girl". My girlfriend had no problem getting
> a tourist visa, although she did not meet all of the criteria that are
> identified as important considerations. I think the deciding element in her
> favor was that I was able to demonstrate that I myself would be returning to
> Thailand with her.

That's how I got my fiancee a tourist visa. I was working in Angola at the
time and the consulate required that I prove to them (via a letter from my
employer) that I would be returning to Angola and therefore she would have
incentive to leave the US (no one left to support her). That's all they're
really after. It's got little to do with the status or importance of the
person, it's the assurance that she has solid reason to leave the US after
her visit. After that, gravy.

There is a down-side to that. When I got her K-1 fiancee visa it complicated
matters. The INS approved it almost immediately (a little over a month for
the petition) but the consulate at the US embassy in Bangkok said that
because she had visited the US, she would have to clear an FBI fingerprint
check before she was given her visa to live in the US. (They no longer accept
police reports from Thailand.) Had I not taken her to the US that wouldn't
have been necessary. That took 6 months.

rinpoche

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Oct 8, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/8/98
to
C G Barlow wrote:

> When I met my girl 10 months ago I set my 'default mode' at
> DISBELIEF which I feel is wise at the start of any relationship
> especially in a different country and culture where rip-offs abound.
> However I checked out everything she told me and found no
> discrepancies so now I have changed to BELIEF.

It seems obvious to me that even though Dan expresses some doubt to show
that he is still of sound mind, he is really well into the BELIEVE mode.


Andy

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Oct 8, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/8/98
to
On Thu, 08 Oct 1998 13:19:52 +0800, rinpoche <rinp...@pacific.net.sg>
wrote:

>Dan Finn wrote:
>
>> They are there, I have seen them. On this account, I can rely on my
>> co-workers who were there on the past trip. They could all see there
>> was something special about her and the way she acted around me. In
>> fact, my manager is convinced we will be married.
>>

>> ================================================
>> Dan Finn musqlar at bigfoot dot com
>> http://www.bigfoot.com/~musqlar
>> mfw : This ain't Spa Lady
>> http://mfw.tico.com
>

>Dear Dan,
>
>If you were to start a relationship with any of the decent Thai girls
>whom I know, they are very likely to expect gifts from you in the form
>of gold and jewellery. They are likely to bring friends on dates with
>you and tehy are likely to expect you to be generous with their friends
>too.
>
>They will also expect you to send them some spending money when you have
>gone home. Your co-workers and manager may not think much of these
>women, but their actions may have nothing to do with cheating at all.
>These girls can be very faithful. They are just being themselves and
>expecting from you what they would expect from Thai men.
>
>On the other hand, your girlfriend is a professional. She knows what
>makes a farang tick and what kind of moves will make him drop his guard.
>I'm not trying to judge your girlfriend, but I thought you might want to
>know just how good some of these "professionals" are.
>

I Concur with all your advice above! This is a fascinating thread!

One of the most interesting ways to observe human behaivour is
to chat with a bar girl on the basis of not being , or have any
possibility of being, a customer. The only way to do this is really to
take another Thai or Farang Lady with you to the bar!
Then you will learn something of what goes on in the minds of
bar-girls.
The first thing you find is that to a bar-girl, entertaining
and "falling in love with" a Farang is their job, nothing more. They
are very accomplished actresses, having learned their craft from older
members of the bar staff. Most bar girls have an older mentor whom
they respect and take advice and coaching from.
You will come across the book which is used by bar-girls to
write love letters to Farangs. Yes it really is a real book - I have a
copy and it's quite amusing. It has about 50 letters in Thai with
exact English translations which can be copied on paper and sent. All
of them have some kind of reason why the writer has fallen on hard
times and may need financial help.
You will hear the stories given to customers about family
diasters that have befallen them, including the "Motorcycle Accident"
story. All of them end with "What can I do?"
You may be asked to scan a letter from a previous customer and
report 2 pieces of information: Is the customer coming back to
Thailand and : Does he mention anything about money, then the letter
is discarded.
Eventually you may come to admire the skill of the girl in
selling her wares, just like any other salesperson, who is trained to
interact with the customer as much as possible and make him feel
"special". Some of these girls must be the most skilful sales people
and actresses rolled into one!
Sometimes a girl seems to be taking a particular shine to a
customer she has known for a time. Is this love? The customer takes
her out of the bar for the evening, maybe to a restaurant. It's a
night out of the office! Away from the boring job of pouring drinks
and a chance to eat decent food. The customer has taken her out for
the last few nights. No wonder she has a special affection for him.
Some well-practised phrases come out such as:

"I not go with other man. only you"
"you different, I love you too much"
"I not work in bar, just come to see friend"
etc

Listen to bar-girls chatting about customers amongst
themselves. One favorite subject is how long each one takes to "come"
(the shorter the better - less work!) and of course how much money he
gave her. Love is never even touched upon.

As I have said before on this group, would a guy go down to
the local brothel in his own country to find a wife? No, then why do
it in Thailand? There are plenty of lovely girls in Thailand but the
process of meeting a genuine love there is no different to that in
one's own country. By-passing the normal boy-meets-girl process by
finding an easily available girl in a bar rarely works out.

As someone has already said, a simple test of a Thai girl's
virtue is this: If you ask her out on a first date and she insists on
bringing a friend she's likely to be genuine. Bar girls are far
removed from this!

Sorry!

Andy W.

dbr...@hotmail.com

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Oct 8, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/8/98
to
In article <361f204f...@news.erols.com>,
musq...@SPAMbigfoot.com wrote:
> On Wed, 07 Oct 1998 16:49:03 GMT, dbr...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> >
> >At the risk of generalising, there is an old adage - "You can take the girl
> >out of the bar, but never the bar out of the girl." True in most cases.
> >
> I have seen this. Even though she was free from the bar we still went
> there for a beer or two each night although, I also wanted to go there
> and have a beer. ;-) But then, I work on computers 12 hours a day and
> here I am at home typing away and rebuilding my NT server when I
> should be in bed dreaming.

Sounds like you are far gone! Let's hope that first love doesn't cloud your
better judgement. After all, it's your life.

My advice is to take lots of time and keep your ear to the ground - if that's
possible in such an alien yet apparently relaxed and beautiful culture
(emphasis on the word 'alien' - you always will be no matter how good it
seems).

Love makes a fool of the wisest man - not that this may necessarily be so in
your case ;-)

>
> >More than most such relationships fail when you get the girl back to the cold
> >light of Western culture, and the sweet veneer of honey peels away to reveal
> >the uneducated culturally unadaptable interior.
> >

> I am actually looking into a job in Thailand. I am trying VERY hard

> not to let this relationship influence my decision. I fell in love


> with the country on my first trip and had been thinking of moving

> there. The only thing that held me back at that point was my fiancee
> (now former.) Also, it was not just Bangkok that I have seen and
> liked.
>

> ================================================
> Dan Finn musqlar at bigfoot dot com
> http://www.bigfoot.com/~musqlar
> mfw : This ain't Spa Lady
> http://mfw.tico.com
>

-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------

tch...@my-dejanews.com

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Oct 8, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/8/98
to
In article <361cdb84...@192.63.145.23>,
an...@nutaumar.demon.co.uk (Andy) wrote:

<snipped>

> You may be asked to scan a letter from a previous customer and
> report 2 pieces of information: Is the customer coming back to
> Thailand and : Does he mention anything about money, then the letter
> is discarded.

I've had this experience several times, bar girls that I know asking me to
translate a letter, or at least read it aloud (they can speak English but not
read it).

My experience has been that some will do what you say, look for references to
money and if they're aren't any, throw it away. But others will seem sincere
in finding out what he's saying and how he's feeling. It's been about 50/50
from my experience.

> As someone has already said, a simple test of a Thai girl's
> virtue is this: If you ask her out on a first date and she insists on
> bringing a friend she's likely to be genuine. Bar girls are far
> removed from this!
>
> Sorry!

Bar girls have lost their "virtue" a long time ago. But that doesn't stop them
from being "good" girls or necessarily mean they're dishonest.

>
> Andy W.
>
>


--

Tchi...@HoTMaiL.com

Gary Harper

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Oct 8, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/8/98
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>Go out and buy Laura Schlessinger's book "10 Stupid Things Men Do To Mess UP
>their Lives", and read the chapter about "Stupid Chivalry"...very carefully.
 

Do not give Laura Schlessinger one RED CENT.....She is a MANIACALPOWER MONGER.
 

Dan Finn

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Oct 9, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/9/98
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On Thu, 08 Oct 1998 13:54:38 GMT, tch...@my-dejanews.com wrote:

>In article <361f204f...@news.erols.com>,
> musq...@SPAMbigfoot.com wrote:
>> On Wed, 07 Oct 1998 16:49:03 GMT, dbr...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>
>> >

>> >At the risk of generalising, there is an old adage - "You can take the girl
>> >out of the bar, but never the bar out of the girl." True in most cases.
>> >

>> I have seen this. Even though she was free from the bar we still went
>> there for a beer or two each night although, I also wanted to go there
>> and have a beer. ;-) But then, I work on computers 12 hours a day and
>> here I am at home typing away and rebuilding my NT server when I
>> should be in bed dreaming.
>

>Actually, if it comes down to it, you should be much more ashamed of working
>on NT servers than marrying a bar girl.
>

Well, this is true. I am a Unix and network guy at heart but the boss
wants those 4 shinny letters, M C S E on my resume so here I am.

Dan Finn

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Oct 9, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/9/98
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On Thu, 08 Oct 1998 21:43:34 +0800, rinpoche <rinp...@pacific.net.sg>
wrote:

I just kinda hope for the best but plan for the worst. I won't have
vacation built up for another 6 months so I won't be going anywhere
until then. That is plenty of time for much mail to be exchanged. I
still have 3 round trip tickets to Thailand on frequent flyer miles so
if I blow another in 6 months and find out all is wrong, oh well, at
least I had another good time in Thailand.

rinpoche

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Oct 9, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/9/98
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Dan Finn wrote:

> I just kinda hope for the best but plan for the worst. I won't have
> vacation built up for another 6 months so I won't be going anywhere
> until then. That is plenty of time for much mail to be exchanged. I
> still have 3 round trip tickets to Thailand on frequent flyer miles so
>
> if I blow another in 6 months and find out all is wrong, oh well, at
> least I had another good time in Thailand.

For Thailand, 6 months is a very long time. I have seen Thais make
drastic changes of mind within 6 minutes and even by international
standards, Thailand has some of the most "dynamic" players of political
musical chairs in its government. Everything here seems to float on
water or sway in the wind. One moment, everything seems to be bending
over backwards for you. The next moment, they are drifting out of reach.
These are not unique characteristics, but they are a little more
pronounced in Thailand.

Thai men often say "Get it before the dog does." (referring to women).
Generally speaking, (I'm not referring to Thais who come from
exceptional, strictly-disciplined familes) relationships in Thailand are
more quickly established and a little less stable than those in other
Asian countries. Compared to the US, however, you may find the situation
acceptable.

I'm sure you're hoping for the best, but I'm not so sure if you are
prepared for the worst or are going there with the sole aim of having a
good time. Ask yourself. Are you just as keen to go to Thailand if a
couple of male Thai friends had asked you to meet them at Phuket for
some watersports? Frankly, that fits my definition of having a good time
much better than sitting in a bar does. I seldom sit in a bar unless
when invited by the owner.


mcro...@stjohn.stjohn.ac.th

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Oct 9, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/9/98
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In article <361c1e0f...@news.erols.com>,
musq...@SPAMbigfoot.com wrote:

> On Wed, 07 Oct 1998 20:26:31 GMT, tch...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
> >

> >She doesn't make even anywhere near 30,000 baht a month. If she's lucky she
> >makes half that. The bar probably pays her about 4,000 a month.
> >
> Well, that was my point. If she was lying to me and turning tricks
> more often, I would have to imagine she would have more money and more
> material things. Granted, I have no idea what the going rate is and I
> don't want to ask, but I would imagine it is at least 1000 Baht.

I think the going rate at those bars is 700-800 baht for a short time,
1000-1200 for all night, plus the bar fine, of course. I gather most of the
girls don't want to go for all night, but of course that doesn't apply if they
decide they like you. From the small number of customers I've seen there I
don't think any of the girls are making more than the 12,00 to 15,000 that
tchiowa estimated. Probably not even that much. I have wondered how the bars
stay in business.

I stop in and look around occasionally, but I've never seen any girls at the
many bars there who looked really interesting, and the noise level is more
than I can bear. I agree it's better than the go-go bars at Nana or Soi
Cowboy, but I don't see them as being places to hang out. I also have a thing
about paying bar fines -- if I have to pay the money I'd rather give it to
the girl. Just a quirk on my part, because the bars do at least give the
girls a small degree of security in return for the money.

>
> >I'd be interested in knowing what your final decision is on how you're
> >proceeding. If you stick with her, let me know how it works out.
> >

> I'll keep the group posted, but not to many details. ;-)
>

Fine.

> ================================================
> Dan Finn musqlar at bigfoot dot com
> http://www.bigfoot.com/~musqlar
> mfw : This ain't Spa Lady
> http://mfw.tico.com
>

--
Roger

Why are hemorrhoids called "hemorrhoids"
instead of "asteroids"?

Dan Finn

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Oct 9, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/9/98
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On Fri, 09 Oct 1998 14:26:34 +0800, rinpoche <rinp...@pacific.net.sg>
wrote:

>Dan Finn wrote:


>
>> I just kinda hope for the best but plan for the worst. I won't have
>> vacation built up for another 6 months so I won't be going anywhere
>> until then. That is plenty of time for much mail to be exchanged. I
>> still have 3 round trip tickets to Thailand on frequent flyer miles so
>>
>> if I blow another in 6 months and find out all is wrong, oh well, at
>> least I had another good time in Thailand.
>
>For Thailand, 6 months is a very long time. I have seen Thais make
>drastic changes of mind within 6 minutes and even by international
>standards, Thailand has some of the most "dynamic" players of political
>musical chairs in its government. Everything here seems to float on
>water or sway in the wind. One moment, everything seems to be bending
>over backwards for you. The next moment, they are drifting out of reach.
>These are not unique characteristics, but they are a little more
>pronounced in Thailand.
>
>Thai men often say "Get it before the dog does." (referring to women).
>Generally speaking, (I'm not referring to Thais who come from
>exceptional, strictly-disciplined familes) relationships in Thailand are
>more quickly established and a little less stable than those in other
>Asian countries. Compared to the US, however, you may find the situation
>acceptable.
>

This I did not know. As I think of it, it certainly makes sense. But I
can't let that push me to a hasty decision. Perhaps if I lived there,
but I don't . . . yet.


>I'm sure you're hoping for the best, but I'm not so sure if you are
>prepared for the worst or are going there with the sole aim of having a
>good time. Ask yourself. Are you just as keen to go to Thailand if a
>couple of male Thai friends had asked you to meet them at Phuket for
>some watersports? Frankly, that fits my definition of having a good time
>much better than sitting in a bar does. I seldom sit in a bar unless
>when invited by the owner.

On my last trip to Bangkok on holiday, I actually spent less money
(flight, food, lodging, beer) than if I had visited friends in Florida
or any other stateside destination. So I would have to say yes, if my
former co-workers still in Thailand invited me come out and play for
two weeks, I'd be all over that.

wel...@loxinfo.co.th

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Oct 9, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/9/98