Re: Japan,China &Thailand to develop Kra canal./Wisarut
pluto
Newsgroups: soc.culture.thai
Subject: Re: Japan,China &Thailand to develop Kra canal./Wisarut
Date: 2 Aug 2004 03:00:18 -0700
On 2 Aug 2004 03:00:18 -0700, bho...@hotmail.com (Wisarut) wrote:
>Khun pluto, Khun Mames,[sic]
>[Khun Wisarut, methink you mean Khun James?]
>
> Ranong and Chumporn have minority Muslim Burmese mostly
>from Victoria Point (Now Bayengnaung point, Myanma) .... and a few
>from those Goddamned Melayu from Pattani Circle. However, the one
>who help to create Ranogn is the Hokkian Chinese ... now they got
>the surname Na Ranong since their fmily had been governor of Ranong.
>Same can be said to Na Songkla family who have develop much of Songkla
>province.
>
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaah !! my good friend Khun Wisarut,
good to read from you again
and thank you very very much for the above inside information on the very
plausible track of land where the Kra Canal can be carved.
The stretch i ensvisage is about 60 km wide from Ranong in the west to
about 5 km north of Lang Suan in the east of South Thailand--- a straight
line of say 2 miles wide 2 lanes with center concrete lane to stevedor the
movements, from the Adaman sea to the Gulf of Thailand. Forget about
Chumporn port.
Why are you suggesting the cutting the canal from Ranong to Chumporn? ( i
could be mistaken) . If not, it would mean dredging the international river
(Myamar is just a walk across this river :0)) =,Furthermore Myamar
definitely would want a stake and cut on the canal.
Assuming that the Kra canal is to make a curve to the existing port of
Chumporn, the distance is about 150 km--- too harzardous for supertanker's
navigation round the bend--- supertankers always have the right of way and
plough into any boat, bend that "obstructs" it. Are you thinking of using
towing servces?
In our last discussion on the cutting of the Kra Canal, i append our
full exerpts below.
it is long
>
> For the pipeline, Are you refering to Thai-Malay Pipeline
>passing from Ban Sakom Chana District of Songkla to Malaysia?
Yes, this is supposed to be the gas line from Pakar in Trengganu, malaysia
to Kelantan and thence to Ban Sakom. The previous malaysian pm madhatter
had sneared at the toxin wanting the gas pipe line the toxin way--
by-passing the predominantly thai muslim lands. Surely thailand has enough
oil in the gulf of Thailand to supply herself, Khun Wisarut and Khun
James?
I suppose this has something to do with the SEATO trade arrangement and
balance of payment. i am glad toxin, though not liked by the thai people,
has his way ;-))
OK
below is the full transcript of our discussion together with Khun James'
recent report on the Ranong-Chumporn terrain and climatology:
From: "yahoo...@yahoo.com" <yahoo...@yahoo.com>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.thai
Subject: Re: Thai rebels fuel sectarian strife
Date: Fri, 04 Jun 2004 12:42:45 +0800
On 3 Jun 2004 19:44:19 -0700, bho...@hotmail.com (Wisarut) wrote:
>Khun Pluto,
>
> Well, those local Thai people have already expressed
>their frustration on local webboards such as Patip, MThai
>and Manager Daily ... and those human right acrtivists got several
>shock waves of death threats as well as hate mails to both snail mail
>mailbox and e-mail mailboxes ....
yes, Khun Wisarut. i read those too and worry for their safety as "strange"
deaths appear when you least expect. Those of us who feel for the goodness
to a nation inevitabily suffer the consequences of their good will.
For where greater the love, the greater the sufferings for the beloved---
St Augustine: City of God.
>
> For many Thai people, the land bridge with rail link between
>2 deep sea ports (Khanom - Krabi) is very good substitute of
>Kra canal. Even the Highway 44 for the Landbridge is DONE ... but
>the rail links parallel with the highway is not conceived yet!
>
> The revival of Songkla - Hatyai railway line with extension
>to Satun to link Songkla deep sea port with Hatyai and Satun is
>another good deal if they decided to do so. The electrified ril link
>from downtown Songkla to Hatyai Airport would be great
>
>
>Wisarut
Yes, these are good developments for the adjacent locations but the
benefits to the hinterlands , that is south thailand, leave much to be
desired. These developments are short term stop gap measures to enhance the
already prosperous enterpreneurs in those locations. What about the great
mass of near poverty line of residents? the rubber industry in s thailand
is slowly approaching failure as very few researches for improved clones of
faster rubber yields. malaysia had its world renowned RRI cloning out super
rubber trees which can be tapped in 3 years. Now malaysia has quite given
up rubber in favour of oil palm and today malaysia beats indonesia within
10 years of indonesian supremacy in oil palm. Much of the rubber
plantations in malaysia are now replaced by oil palms and you can witness
this when your plane descend to KLIA .
Now, back to my point on the cutting of the canal at the isthmus of Kra,
which should have been done 100 years ago.Look at the suez canal which
avoid the unnecessary rounding the cape of good hope, if there are no goods
to be delivered en route there. Today we have supertankers whose deck is
about the size of 3 football fields and they still have to make the tedious
journey through the straits of malacca to singapore thence to australia
and/or japan. i recall one captain of these supertankers told me when his
hull reaches penang, all propellers are in reverse thrusts in order to
reach port klang and singapore. they prefer singapore becaue of the high
technology of cargo managements compared to port klang. A wrong permutation
of the relocations of the 20-40 foot cargo containers can create serious
tilting of the tanker, sinking it. These supertankers, some of them, 20
storeys deep, while leaving madras has signaled to singapore the thanker's
full blueprints of it cargo locations, tonage and singapore's
supercomputers go into motion to arrange the sequence of locating,
balancing the tanker at the minimum of time while the tanker refuels,
refill waters, food at the minimum of port charge.
i remember some 20 years ago the idea of he kra canal was mooted and
singapore immediately despatch its officials with suitcases do dollars to
drop the idea.
IT IS STILL NOT TOO LATE
now with high engineering technology, the kra canal can be cut within 3
years, with underground dual carriage tunnels to connect the mile wide
canal---- this is to allow dual passages of the tankers instead of the
single ones in the suez and worse the panama with gate locks.
job creation on both sides of the canal is obvious-- stevedors, tanker
serviceing and refurbishing, traffic controls, etc and they dont have to
beat thier breasts of "nasib tak baik-- bad luck" with poor yielding rubber
and poorer rice yields compared to those in the north.
And the best part: imagine the revenue collected from the supertankers
using the Kra canal to and from japan, australia, singapore and indonesia.
Hm? singapore coming up with another suitcase of dollars ?
singapore has got tired of this poker game and has gone ahead in other
technology----new waters, land reclamations, blah blah blah... i imagine
singapore would now prefer the Kra canal leaving the straits of malacca
free for fishermen ;-)))
Do you know that singapore is the only port in asia where the usa nuclear
submarines entered unseen after every cobra gold every year, for
refurbishing, refueling and out into the pacific within the next day?
Yes, Khun Wisarut, the developments you mentioned above could and can
eventually link up to a longer chain of efficiency to some sectors of s
thailand.
i am looking at a broader canvas
thanks Khun Wisarut for your input and
regards
pluto
===========================
From: "yahoo...@yahoo.com" <yahoo...@yahoo.com>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.thai
Subject: Re: Thai rebels fuel sectarian strife
Date: Sat, 05 Jun 2004 04:56:36 +0800
On 4 Jun 2004 12:04:10 -0700, bho...@hotmail.com (Wisarut) wrote:
>Khun Pluto,
>
Thank you, Khun Wisarut for the INSIDE information here !!
Can i surmise that you are working in the maritime business and/or in the
state railway of thailand ? Your information is valuable.
>Well, Now, the studnets for mthe deep South (Narathiwat) has come up
>with the new applications of para rubber -> glue to trap those pests
i suppose this is ok for the university/college students to do this type of
"follow up" research. What is needed is pro active research like those in
usa where theoretical theories are applied for use . e.g. the
cloning/manupulations of DNA and stem cells in drug and human researches.
Our students in asia are still doing the follow up researches after all the
horses have galloped out of the gates ;-))
>...
>and the use of less poisionous acid to keep the rubber stable without
>getting choked by the more poisonous acid.
>
>Ther awas an experiment to prove that using para rubber as the
>substitute
>of asphalt. The results show that the rubber is a good substitute of
>asphalts -. work even much better than asphalt. However, the asphalt
>lobbyists have paid kickbacks to Highway Dept to prevent them
>fromn using para rubber whci could ruin their business.
>Now, the oil shock have shot up the prices of asphalt. Therfore, it's
>the right time to use para rubber as substitute of asphalt.
>
>One more experment I would like to see is to substitute the wooden
>sleepers with rubber sleepers. Wooden sleepers have become harder
>to obtain ... Now, even the prices of wooden sleepers from Indonesia
>have shot up which made SRT to think twice before buying the new ones.
>
>Even though we have already used concrete sleepers as the replacemnt
>of
>wooden sleepers for several sections of the main lines after the
>double tracking and rehabilitation, some sections still need wooden
>sleeper
>since the concrete sleepers are too rigid for the sections whcih need
>flexibilities (e.g. trestles in Kanchanaburi or so). Therfore, they
>want to try using natural rubber to make sleepers which require
>wooden sleepers. After that, we can donate those rotten wooden
>sleepers as fuel to Chemin de Fur Cambodge (Cambodian Railway
>Authority) to fuel the steam loco there ....
Thank you for the above information. para rubbers of various molecular
weights were used in malaya and you are right. Political interventions play
a great part in the using of some good things discovered.
>
>Well, comparing the poor in the South, those who live in Isan is MUCH
>poorer -. living in abject poverty for several generations -> ...
>Even though Isan region has been improved since several industries
>have moved their factories to Isan, there are still lots of rooms to
>improve including spcial fabircation which is frayed and it has to be
>rebuilt. Same can be said to the Deep south - but wiht much more
>delicated
>ways to handle.
>
i agree with you here, Khun Wisarut on the plights of the issans vide the
good works of of the thai government, ngos and JB up there (where the hell
is he now--- he seemed to have disappeared from sct?)
>Now, the rubber plantation has arealdy reached Isan region and sooner
>or later -> the Northern region.
that is good news for natural rubber is still necessary for some items in
manufacture. and hopefully the better clones would be used there to give
better yields at shorter times.
> Probably those children in Isan may
>have to learn how to play with rubber seeds as those Southern boys do.
heheheh, these are the naughty tricks we used to play on our playmates,
shocking them with the hot rubber seeds ;0) ; making wind mills from two
intertwined opened pods.
>
>However relying on nationwide rubber plantation alone will NEVER work
>...
>Need to ask my friends in BIOTEC about the plan to come up with Super
>rubber strains .... after they have come up with ther rice stain wiht
>high iron and vitamin content. However, they need to get more into
>from
>Rubber research Center in Kasetsart University (Bangkhen Campus -
>BKK)
>before coming with up with supere rubber stain for those rubber
>tappers.
>
>To support Kra canal, the governemtn must improve and support Thai
>Marine Company to funciton as the National fleet in the same way as
>Thai Inter has
>functioned national aviation career since Thai marine Company is in
>very
>sorry state .. It just get the new feeder ship in 2003 after they have
>retired all the fleets in 1979. Without the strong national marine
>career,
>it would be next to IMPOSSIBLE to create Kalasi (sailors) and Sarang
>(workers in the ship) jobs in addtion to Helmmen (Tai Kong) for those
>Muslim in the deep South.
huh? why do you say this?
is this forbidden by the thai islamic religion or is it embedded in the
southern thai genetic codes? ;-))
>
>To support the ship maintianance as well as the shipbuiding for Thai
>Marine Comnpany as well as otehr private sectors (not in the grand
>scale as Hyundai though but still necessary), the relating heavy
>industry (steel mills or so) must be improved. Therefore the
>investment in Laos to extract iron ore from
>Phu Lek (Iron Moutain) and the purchase of good coal (Not the acidic
>Lignite from Lampang and Krabi!) from Indonesia and Australia is
>anotehr Big Must.
>
>Sure, the investment on IT stuffs is necesary to turn Songkla deep
>sea port into the 2nd branch of Laem Chabang (the best port of
>Thailand)
>and Kantang (or Thub Lamu) as tbe 3rd branch of Laem Chabang.
>Too bad, Kantang may NOT be suitable as deep sea port as they used to
>be,
>so they are looking for Thum Lamu in Phang Nga since it is closed to
>the
>3rd Fleet HQ of RTN amd it is very closed to Phuket.
>
>Now, Krabi is no longer suitable for deep sea port since it has
>already
>been designated as "Eco tourist town" to Support Phuket - the deep sea
>port
>will ruin Krabi nad easter part of Phuket badly ... so they have to
>create
>the new branch of Landbridge and redirect the proposed rail track as
>well. Therfore, the revival of Kirirat Nikhom - Phang Nga - Tha Nun
>with a branch
>to Tub Lamu after being stalled sicne 1956 is a big must However, SRT
>will
>have to ask Army and Navy to clear the right of the way by forces
>first
>sicne those palm oil plantation owners REFUSE to sell the land for the
>new railway track.
>
>
>Well, I have already known that Singaporean governemtn has already
>purchase
>a quarter of stocks from Land & House PCL (teh biggest local real
>estate)
>which help L&H to to have a cash and come up with the houses ready for
>sell whcih no other real estate could imitate unless they have very
>deep pockets with wads of cash (SC Asset - the real state Arm of
>Premier Thaksin) and connections wiht contractor giants like Italian
>Thai Deveopment PCL and Ch. Karn Chang PCL (Sansiri PCL) -> so far
>very few companies could rival L & H.
>This purchase has help Singapore to ahve a new and chper house to
>those Sigaporean expats in Thailand -> and I could see Singaporeans
>shopping at Lemon Farm (Deparment store selling Organic food to
>compete with Big C and Tesco Lotus which acts liek a big clamp on
>Lemon Farm) near my home.
Given today's global business strategies, i think it is much easier to
invite foreign companies, nations to come to participate in the
constructions, maintenance and running of the Kra Canal Incoporated ;-))
The two tallest (at that time) towers in KL i.e. KLCC is not built by
malaysians alone but with the expertise of japan
the biggest hydrau electric dams in china is not built by the chinese but
by a consortium of japan, france, usa, singapore et al.
the biggest dam in sarawak is now being built by a consortium of korea,
singapore and malaysia.
the penang bridge, the longest at that time in asia, was built by the
koreans.
so it is not that difficult to build a super Kra Canal of TWO LANES with a
middle track for the tugging of the mamoth tankers..... TWO underground
under the two lanes of the canals connecting s thailand with the part up
north.
toxin has only to give the nod for the go ahead for free falls to all the
lands to be acquired, compensated
usa, france and/or russia may be permitted to use nuclear energy to carve
up the canals in super quick time.
no money? no problem, the koreans built the penang bridge free of charge in
exchange for 10 years of toll collections.
no proper manpower to operate the canals? no problem, --- the consortium
are contract/duty bound to provide operations, maintainance and TRAINING TO
THE THAIS working there till the thais are self efficient.
singapore has been selling this type of technology to china some 20 years
ago and she is part of the consortium building the world's greatest dam at
the yangsi
it is the case of whether toxin and the people of thailand wants to have
this or not. the rest can be arranged ;-))
regards
pluto
=================================
From: james <ja...@jomama.com>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.singapore,soc.culture.malaysia,soc.culture.thai
Subject: Re: Japan,China &Thailand to develop Kra canal.
Date: Mon, 02 Aug 2004 06:41:48 +0700
Organization: Loxinfo (Thailand)
I recently drove the basic route that the pipline would follow, from
Cumphon to Ranong. Along the way, here is a monutment showing the
narrowest place in Thailand. The area is wild, with mountains and true
rainforest. It will be no easy feat of engineering. Beside the obvious
benefits for shipping, a more developed road and infrastructure would
"open up" Ranong Province, perhaps the most isolated and least-visted in
Thailand. Beautiful -- waterfalls cascading off the tops of mountains in
the distance, massive rainforest trees. It is also the rainiest province
in Thailand. Of course, the Andaman Sea is there.
One other thing: The province appeared to be almost entirely Muslim --
there are run-down Mosques all along the entire road from Ranong to
Krabi Province.
Brian Damage wrote:
> It is about freaking time. Bypass the savage region. Singapore will
> do fine. When the times get tough, only the truly competent, capable
> and competitive can survive.
>
>
> kias...@postmaster.co.uk (KiasuMan) wrote in message news:<c3fa1377.04073...@posting.google.com>...
>
>>News item in a Japanese newspaper dated 30 July, says that
>>Thailand, China and Japan will jointly develop
>>the Kra canal that will enable shipping to bypass
>>the Straits of Malacca ( and Singapore ).
>>
>>An oil pipeline is also to be built with terminals
>>at either end of the canal.
>
===============================
From: pluto <<pl...@yahoo.com.sg>>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.thai
Subject: Re: Japan,China &Thailand to develop Kra canal.
Date: Mon, 02 Aug 2004 08:38:54 +0800
Thanks james for the hands on information.
that is exactly the place i envisage the thailand-china-japan consortium
would work on
i have written to kiasuman for the exact url of the japanese newspaper
report and still waiting ;-))
On Mon, 02 Aug 2004 06:41:48 +0700, james <ja...@jomama.com> wrote:
>I recently drove the basic route that the pipline would follow, from
>Cumphon to Ranong. Along the way, here is a monutment showing the
>narrowest place in Thailand. The area is wild, with mountains and true
>rainforest. It will be no easy feat of engineering. Beside the obvious
>benefits for shipping, a more developed road and infrastructure would
>"open up" Ranong Province, perhaps the most isolated and least-visted in
>Thailand. Beautiful -- waterfalls cascading off the tops of mountains in
>the distance, massive rainforest trees. It is also the rainiest province
>in Thailand. Of course, the Andaman Sea is there.
>
>One other thing: The province appeared to be almost entirely Muslim --
>there are run-down Mosques all along the entire road from Ranong to
>Krabi Province.
>
>Brian Damage wrote:
>> It is about freaking time. Bypass the savage region. Singapore will
>> do fine. When the times get tough, only the truly competent, capable
>> and competitive can survive.
>>
>>
>> kias...@postmaster.co.uk (KiasuMan) wrote in message news:<c3fa1377.04073...@posting.google.com>...
>>
>>>News item in a Japanese newspaper dated 30 July, says that
>>>Thailand, China and Japan will jointly develop
>>>the Kra canal that will enable shipping to bypass
>>>the Straits of Malacca ( and Singapore ).
>>>
>>>An oil pipeline is also to be built with terminals
>>>at either end of the canal.
>>
=====================================