Mai Pen Rai sucks
Tchiowa
This is a serious post. Normally I don't try to argue with other
cultures. I try to accept them as they are and believe that just because
a culture is different than mine, it doesn't mean that it's not as good
as mine. I'm about to break that rule.
As some of you know, my wife's mother passed away a few weeks ago. I was
in Kazakstan at the time and asked for help on processes and received a
lot of help. My wife went to Thailand and has been there since. I
arrived there the middle of last month and found out some details that
really pissed me off.
You see, her mother had a stroke. Not all that serious of a stroke. She
was in her early 50's. Problem is my wife's family is a farming family
and quite poor. I send them money every month to supplement their
income. Well, when she had her stroke the family decided that they
didn't have enough money to take her to a hospital. Rather than call me
or my wife, they just started labelling it fate (or whatever the correct
Buddhist term is) and waited to see what would happen. They felt that if
is was her fate to live, she would. She didn't. They said Mai Pen Rai.
Bullshit. If they had contacted me or my wife we would have sent money
and they could have taken her to the hospital. From what we've been able
to find out, she probably would have survived. Instead, they let her die
because of some misguided concept about fate and religions.
That reminds me of some of the religious nuts in this country who let
their children die because blood transfusions are a sin in their
religions.
Question for those who may know better. Is this a common belief and
practice in Thailand? Or is my wife's family a little more religious
(maybe fanatical) than most? My wife is not pissed off about what
happened. She's accepting it with typical Thai non-emotion. I'm not. Her
mother was a good person and I think it was asinine to just leave her to
her fate. That's why I work for a living, so I don't have to leave
anything to chance or fate, if I can avoid it.
Am I looking at things wrong here? Maybe I'm just upset and not thinking
about it straight. But this sure sounds like something completely
idiotic to me.
Sanpawat Kantabutra
Tchiowa (tchi...@HoTMaiL.com) wrote:
: Question for those who may know better. Is this a common belief and
: practice in Thailand? Or is my wife's family a little more religious
: (maybe fanatical) than most? My wife is not pissed off about what
: happened. She's accepting it with typical Thai non-emotion. I'm not.
Khun Tchiowa,
First, I must say I am sorry that your mother-in-law passed away. Second,
your wife's family is certainly not a typical Thai family. Most Thai
families would do their best to prevent the death of their beloved
family members. I found your wife's family a little too strange that
they just let your mother-in-law die and believed that it was fate. Most
Thais would leave it to fate only when they have no other means to handle
with the situation. Sincerely, Sanpawat
------------------------
EECS Tufts Massachusetts
TIngram830
Dear Tchiowa,
My Wife is thai and changed from buddhism to Christianity.She still
believes
in that buddha luck and looses all her money at the casino even with all her
good
luck charms.I have to get her drunk to show emotion and if I show too much she
says I'm like a woman! From what I could see,most Thai people are money hungry
and believe luck will bring it.I think some of this comes from a struggle to
climb
out of that third world catagory that they keep getting so close to
releasing.But
I love my Wife so much and I sent Her home for christmas so she could get the
house in order.Since her Dad is long gone and Mom is now old,Her siblings are
taking
over and stealing stuff.Since My Wife is the oldest of the kids she is master
of the
house.So I sent her home with a handful of money,an American passport and a
picture
of her very large and angry husband with a message that I could be there in 48
hours
to back her up if necessary! People are a trip and the thai like others never
cease to
amaze me. I understand your feelings on this buddy. Tony @
TIngr...@aol.com
Little_B...@bigpond.com.au
tingr...@aol.com (TIngram830) writes: > Dear Tchiowa,
I have to agree in some respects with Tonys comments. I was amazed at
how much the Buddhist Thais believe in fate and luck. I was asked to
participate in a thank you ceremony for good luck whilst on Koh Samui last.
I can understand the significance for this event in the Thai culture but
still have problems in coming to grips with the apparent complete lack of
concern for the future and therefore no planning of it. A number of Thai
people I have met seem to exist from day to day without much concern
for what will happen tommorrow. In many ways I envy this lack of worry,
but I can't agree with the philosophy that all can be made right by
offerings of vast quantities of money to Buddha in the hope of a good and
fortunate life. Please correct me if I'm wrong but the loss of a loved
one is indeed a tragic event - expected or otherwise.
Ken
In article <34826...@139.134.5.33>, Little_B...@bigpond.com.au
says...
>
>tingr...@aol.com (TIngram830) writes: > Dear Tchiowa,
>> My Wife is thai and changed from buddhism to Christianity.She
still
>> believes
>> in that buddha luck and looses all her money at the casino even with all
her
>> good
>> cease to
>> amaze me.
I understand your feelings on this buddy. Tony @
>> TIngr...@aol.com
>
>I have to agree in some respects with Tonys comments. I was amazed at
>how much the Buddhist Thais believe in fate and luck. I was asked to
>participate in a thank you ceremony for good luck whilst on Koh Samui last.
>I can understand the significance for this event in the Thai culture but
>still have problems in coming to grips with the apparent complete lack of
>concern for the future and therefore no planning of it.
I agree, Thais believing in all that supernatural stuff are so foolish....
just like the Christians who believe..."it's GOD'S WILL" , "GOD called little
Johnny to heaven", "don't worry just put your faith in the LORD" etc. etc.
and the best one is "SEND 100 bucks or more and GAWD will...."
Yep,those Thais sure are silly
We don't want to even start on rabbits laying eggs at Easter,virgin births,
rising from the dead,holy ghosts and good old crying virgin mary
statues,walking on water etc. etc.
Most of the worlds population begins life by being systematically programmed
at birth by their parents, who were themselves ingrained with similar
nonsense, usually meant to instill fear and effect control.
When I first met my wife I was so impressed that she had never heard of the
word Jesus Christ (or the Beatles) and was so free of all our Western
psychological baggage.It took a few years to realize that her Thai baggage
was just as developed as mine, same concepts just different names on them.I
have now convinced her (maybe humouring me) to believe that there are no
ghosts in Farrangland and nothing to fear, except that weird guy down the
street.She knows, however, as a definite fact, that there are ghosts in
Thailand and that belief will stay with her, because she believed what old
Khun Pa told her.Undoubtly some Fallang academics still firmly believe that
Jesus's Mom was a virgin. But who cares, it's great theater!
Regards.......Ken
L. Devitt
I'm sorry for your loss, and I certainly understand your reaction. Of
course this is almost unheard of and completely unacceptable to the
majority in North America. But from my perspective, having an extended
Thai family in the northeast, I would guess something like this would be
more a matter of pride than money or religion. I've spent some time
with my family in their tiny village, and not only did the Thais I
encountered carry a huge amount of pride, but they are also very
reluctant to do anything that might be offensive. Perhaps they were
just too proud to ask for help?
Of course this does not justify the situation. In fact, it would seem
even more unacceptable. If it were for religious reasons, I strongly
believe that-- like it or not-- we must have tolerance and acceptance of
others' beliefs. If your wife accepts it, it seems to me that you have
no choice but to accept it, too, out of respect for her.
When my father's Thai mother-in-law passed away, he sent his wife to
Thailand to be with her family and prepare extravagant ceremonious
events-- hardly "mai pen rai"! From what I have seen, what isn't
expressed in tears is expressed in ritual. That is how the Thais
grieve, or so it seems to me.
In response to some other posts on this matter, I'd like to defend the
Thais' "mai pen rai" attitude. One person complained that the Thais
seem to take things day by day, not planning for the future. During my
time spent in Thailand, "mai pen rai" taught me a valuable lesson.
Through the Thai people-- my family, especially-- I learned that my
fast-track, head-for-the-future North American attitude was making me
miserable. The Thai people taught me to STOP, breath, pull myself back
to the present because that's really where it's at. My life has been
getting better ever since.
Although I might not appreciate or agree with everything the Thais do, I
have the utmost respect for the centuries-old religion that is such a
large part of who they are. I must say that I was at first uninspired
by the Buddhist Thais, because of the widespread and overt contradiction
in their behaviour. But I realized that this is not confined to the
Thais, alone, but is actually a universal flaw that makes us all
human... sad as it is!
Lara
> Question for those who may know better. Is this a common belief and
> practice in Thailand? Or is my wife's family a little more religious
> (maybe fanatical) than most? My wife is not pissed off about what
Martin Donnelly
In article <65t5l0$gbc$1...@news3.tufts.edu>, Sanpawat Kantabutra
<sanp...@allegro.cs.tufts.edu> writes
>Tchiowa (tchi...@HoTMaiL.com) wrote:
>: Question for those who may know better. Is this a common belief and
>: practice in Thailand? Or is my wife's family a little more religious
>: (maybe fanatical) than most? My wife is not pissed off about what
>: happened. She's accepting it with typical Thai non-emotion. I'm not.
>
>First, I must say I am sorry that your mother-in-law passed away. Second,
>your wife's family is certainly not a typical Thai family. Most Thai
>families would do their best to prevent the death of their beloved
>family members. I found your wife's family a little too strange that
>they just let your mother-in-law die and believed that it was fate. Most
>Thais would leave it to fate only when they have no other means to handle
>with the situation. Sincerely, Sanpawat
All I can say that during one trip to Thailand I became quite ill with
pneumonia, my Thai wife and daughter made every effort to make sure I
was taken to hospital a great speed and *remained* there to *ensure*
that I was receiving the best possible treatment...
Regards,
Martin Donnelly mar...@polstar.demon.co.uk
Steve
<SNIP>
>
> I have to agree in some respects with Tonys comments. I was amazed at
> how much the Buddhist Thais believe in fate and luck. I was asked to
> participate in a thank you ceremony for good luck whilst on Koh Samui last.
> I can understand the significance for this event in the Thai culture but
> still have problems in coming to grips with the apparent complete lack of
> concern for the future and therefore no planning of it. A number of Thai
> people I have met seem to exist from day to day without much concern
> for what will happen tommorrow. In many ways I envy this lack of worry,
> but I can't agree with the philosophy that all can be made right by
> offerings of vast quantities of money to Buddha in the hope of a good and
> fortunate life. Please correct me if I'm wrong but the loss of a loved
> one is indeed a tragic event - expected or otherwise.
All of these are tragic events but what you have to remember is that, if
you could look back a hundred years or so in our own cultures, you would
find the same superstitious way of life among the mass, poor and
uneducated population. The majority of the Thai population are still at
that level (unfortunately) i.e. poor and uneducated - so it's hardly
surprising that they don't have the vision to look to tomorrow when
their primary concern is where the next meal is coming from (after
buying the fridge, T.V., video etc.........).
Steve Renouf
mailto:porp...@itl.net
<http://user.itl.net/~porpoise>
Quote of 09/10/97: Automobile, n.: A four-wheeled vehicle that runs
up hills and down pedestrians.
PeteKI
>In many ways I envy this lack of worry,<BR>
>> but I can't agree with the philosophy that all can be made right by<BR>
>> offerings of vast quantities of money to Buddha in the hope of a good
>> fortunate life.
I don't think you will find this kind of approach in the villages of Thailand.
First, there isn't vast quantities of money to be had. Subsistence living is
still prevalent in many village areas. As a monk in a small village in the
1970's, I can tell you that the major thing given to the Wat or the monks was
food and many days that wasn't very much either. Maybe in the bigger cities
this is prevalent but not everywhere. I don't know too many Thais who think
that money can make it right. Maybe in the new and upwardly mobile middle class
(small though it may be) but for the everyday person I doubt it.
Pete
Lerm Daotiam
On Sun, 30 Nov 1997 17:19:51 -0800, Tchiowa <tchi...@HoTMaiL.com> wrote:
(deleted)
Don't trust those fucking monks they are the biggest cheats, although I am a
buddist but I never trust them.
Take my words you will getting better and live longer !
John Melcher
> >I was amazed at
> > how much the Buddhist Thais believe in fate and luck... A number of
Thai
> > people I have met seem to exist from day to day without much concern
> > for what will happen tommorrow.
>
> that level (unfortunately) i.e. poor and uneducated - so it's hardly
> surprising that they don't have the vision to look to tomorrow
I'm amazed at how much the Christian Americans believe in fate and luck
(lottery tickets, horoscopes...). It must be because we're all so poor and
uneducated.
John Melcher
Joris Goetschalckx
John Melcher wrote:
> I'm amazed at how much the Christian Americans believe in fate and luck
> (lottery tickets, horoscopes...). It must be because we're all so poor and
Well said John,
I recently read somewhere that about 80% of the Americans (USA) do
believe that the universe was created by a god. This would basically
put them (intelligence wise) in the same league as the jungle savage
believing that the trees around his hut are inhabited by spirits,
or whatever... Still, we wouldn't condemn them for it, would we?
What I want to say is this: let's not suppose that being poor is a
sufficient explanation for believing funny things.
Kind regards,
Joris
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JD SIngh
I am so surpised you say that...I thought it was
all very scientific!!! Oh! you forgot to say "Bingo".
Tchiowa
Joris Goetschalckx wrote:
>
> John Melcher wrote:
> > I'm amazed at how much the Christian Americans believe in fate and luck
> > (lottery tickets, horoscopes...). It must be because we're all so poor and
>
> I recently read somewhere that about 80% of the Americans (USA) do
> believe that the universe was created by a god. This would basically
> put them (intelligence wise) in the same league as the jungle savage
> believing that the trees around his hut are inhabited by spirits,
> or whatever... Still, we wouldn't condemn them for it, would we?
> What I want to say is this: let's not suppose that being poor is a
> sufficient explanation for believing funny things.
Amen. After all, I'm not poor. But pour a couple of Singhas or some
Mekong into me and I believe I'm 18 again and have hair.
Daydreamer
Faith is at the cornerstone of Judeo-Christian beliefs (it needs to be to
believe in the sometimes unbelievable escapades in the bible). Biblical
examples including almost killing your child because "god said so," parting
the red sea, and walking on water. When asked where are these miracles today,
we are told that we must "have faith".
So, I guess it's ok for one group of people to have faith but not another,
otherwise they'd be judged as uneducated, not like the sophistocated westerner
who believes that there is only one god (but really three, except one is a
ghost, so maybe two, but we know one died for our sins, so maybe there's one
left, but since the ghost and the dead one are gods after all, then maybe
there's really three, but of course there's only one god....etc.). I guess
you have to be pretty faithful to swallow all that.
I don't have a problem with religion, but only with some interpretations of
it. You should respect all religions that do not seek to harm others. Just
because the Thais are Buddist and believe in fate, does not mean they are
uneducated. Actually, Buddists are much much more tolerant of other cultures
and other religions than the religions that came out of the middle east.
John Melcher wrote:
> > >I was amazed at
> > > how much the Buddhist Thais believe in fate and luck... A number of
> Thai
> > > people I have met seem to exist from day to day without much concern
> > > for what will happen tommorrow.
> >
> >The majority of the Thai population are still at
> > that level (unfortunately) i.e. poor and uneducated - so it's hardly
> > surprising that they don't have the vision to look to tomorrow
>
> I'm amazed at how much the Christian Americans believe in fate and luck
> (lottery tickets, horoscopes...). It must be because we're all so poor and
> uneducated.
>
> John Melcher