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Karl Jacob

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Jun 5, 1999, 3:00:00 AM6/5/99
to
Hi everybody !

About oktober 98 I postet some private stories here ("unhappy married"), had
a lot of response and felt quite good for a while in soc.culture.thai.
After a strange discussion with Vincent about drugs I felt a bit disturbed
and did not post for some month, but I know this dicussions are common in
active newsgroups even when I am not happy with that and for me many
disscussions look like fights.
Some people gave me the advice never to post anything private in newsgroups
and I know this people are not paranoid, but I don´t care.
It´s also not easy to read sct, as there are so many mails and you need a
lot of time to extract the things you are interestst in.
Normaly I don´t have this time.
But today a wrote a letter to a friend and felt like posting a part of it.

For the people who don´t know me :
I´m german, 34 years old and my wife is thai, about 24 yoars old and she
lives now 2 and a half year in germany with me.
Last autumn we had a lot of fights mainly because of her immature behavior
and when we went to thailand over newyear I was not shure whether I would
bring her back to germany with me.

This was my letter today :

I am ok, still with my wife and she is still often doing the same stupid
things.
Right now it´s friday night and I am sitting alone at home and she is going
out with friends.
But what can i do, I am a very patient person, but one day my patience is
over.
Now she wants to make a house in thailand for her mother ( her family is
very very poor and her mother has no house ), but a don´t need this house
for myself and it costs about 600.000 Bt and I bought already about 13 rai
land for her mother for about 180.000 Bt and I told her, when she don´t make
everything better here with me, I will never buy this house.
I have to work hard for my money, I give about 10.000 Bt every month to her
family, but she thinks that´s not enough and she has no good luck.
Sometimes I have really enough from her.
But I still don´t know what I will do.

cu

Karl Jacob

may all beings be happy !

]]]karl-...@gmx.net[[[

ICQ : 22036022

heimo

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Jun 5, 1999, 3:00:00 AM6/5/99
to
send her back to the bar
Karl Jacob <karl-...@gmx.net> wrote in message
news:7j9s58$1o7$1...@news.online.de...

Andrew Lamb

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Jun 5, 1999, 3:00:00 AM6/5/99
to
+AD4-But I still don+ALQ-t know what I will do.


Dear Karl,
I think these are common difficulties in many
marriages. I have some ideas.

enroll her in a university or college course
This may get her new more mature friends.

go camping together

find some other German-Thai couples who have
a stable marriage and spend time with them.

I knew two Thai-German couples when I worked in Thailand.
I will try and get their contact details for you.

Andrew

Johpa

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Jun 5, 1999, 3:00:00 AM6/5/99
to
Andrew Lamb in Message-id: <rT863.50$L42...@nswpull.telstra.net>

> go camping together

I"ve been married to a Thai national for over 12 years and yes, it can be
challenging. Yes, many Thai women can appear rather immature even as adults,
just watch the Thai soaps and movies to see what many Thais consider feminine
maturity and gag at how pure emotion rules the roost. Just remember that
marriage to a Thai woman prepares you well for having a teenage daughter. But
taking a Thai woman from a poor background camping is usually not a good idea.
Most rural people in effect grew up camping as a lifestyle. Take them for a
day hike, but don't think making them sleep on the ground in a tent will win
you brownie points.

Happy Trails

Johpa

John Dunstan

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Jun 5, 1999, 3:00:00 AM6/5/99
to

Get real Andrew. If she's 24 and from a "very very poor family" she's
not going to have the education, language skills or motivation to
enrol in a university or college course. I doubt that the prospect of
camping together is going to excite her either (a recipe for disaster,
if you ask me, particularly if the weather gets a little chilly) - and
remember she has probably married Karl to improve her living
conditions, nice house, car, status, modern cons., etc., not to "rough
it" which camping would represent to most Thais of her background.

Finding some German-Thai couples may help although she is probably
already interacting with these (after all she is going out with her
friends, some of whom at least will in all likelihood be married to
Germans).

My suggestion would be to get her enrolled in German and English
language classes and also see whether there were any prospects of
getting her employed in some work (she can then send her own money
back to her family and reduce the drain on Karl's finances).

Karl would be wise to draw the line on building the house back in
Thailand and sending even more money back to her parents otherwise her
very very poor family eventually will become quite well off at the
expense of Karl's hard earned money.

Finally, I would suggest that Karl seek the services of a good divorce
lawyer - just in case....


John Dunstan

bunn...@my-deja.com

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Jun 5, 1999, 3:00:00 AM6/5/99
to
For a different perspective.....If a man marries a woman 10 years
younger than himself, from a background totally different from
his-culturally and economically-what does he expect????!!!!!I was an
idiotic twit in my 20's myself.....if he wanted a mature wife who wanted
to sit at home with him then that is who he should have picked. I bet if
we asked her there would be a lot of things she wished he would do
differently....if you men would consider more than a woman's face and
figure before you married, there would likely be fewer divorces....I am
not saying there is anything wrong with a cross-cultural marriage, only
that there will most certainly be more difficulties in adjustment that
should be faced and worked thru first...it is hard enough being married
if the backgrounds ARE similar....so my advice to our German friend is
to examine yourself and see if there is anything in YOU that may need
adjustment....and some marriage counseling may not be such a bad idea
either-
And forget about camping.Most (not all)women detest it.

Cordially,
Bunnyfire


> > For the people who don=B4t know me :
> > I=B4m german, 34 years old and my wife is thai, about 24 yoars old
and =


> she
> > lives now 2 and a half year in germany with me.
> > Last autumn we had a lot of fights mainly because of her immature

behav=


> ior
> > and when we went to thailand over newyear I was not shure whether I

wou=


> ld
> > bring her back to germany with me.

> > =


>
> > This was my letter today :

> > =


>
> > I am ok, still with my wife and she is still often doing the same

stupi=
> d
> > things.
> > Right now it=B4s friday night and I am sitting alone at home and she
is=


> going
> > out with friends.
> > But what can i do, I am a very patient person, but one day my

patience =


> is
> > over.
> > Now she wants to make a house in thailand for her mother ( her

family i=
> s
> > very very poor and her mother has no house ), but a don=B4t need
this h=


> ouse
> > for myself and it costs about 600.000 Bt and I bought already about

13 =


> rai
> > land for her mother for about 180.000 Bt and I told her, when she

don=B4=


> t make
> > everything better here with me, I will never buy this house.
> > I have to work hard for my money, I give about 10.000 Bt every month

to=
> her
> > family, but she thinks that=B4s not enough and she has no good luck.


> > Sometimes I have really enough from her.

> > But I still don=B4t know what I will do.
>
> You are so tolerant. Do you have any children with her? I'm going to
> make some huge assumptions here and if I'm wrong tell me. You work,
she
> doesn't. You probably give her money to spend, but she wants more.
If
> you give her money, say a weekly allowance, she would have spent all
the
> money in one or two days. She mainly associates with other Thai
females.
> She's from a rural area of Thailand probably the Northeast.
>
> Don't give her any money to build a house for her parents in Thailand.
=
>
> Don't give more than 10,000 baht a month to her parents either. If
she
> really wants to help out her parents then perhaps she should work
> herself and from the money she earns she can help support her parents.
>
> I would follow Andrew's advice and try and met other German-Thai
> couples, and to also try and get her into an education program. One of
> my German friends from Stuggart(sp?) has many friends who either have
> Thai girlfriends or wives. In discussing with him farang-thai
> relationships he sees from his friends that in the cases where the
> relationship is good it is because the Thai woman has integrated
herself
> into German society. They can speak good German, understand the
German
> way of life etc.. From memory, it should be free for her to study
> German. I think this is the best way to start to integrate her into
> Thai society. This could help her get a part-time job, associate more
> with German people, and which would in turn should make your
> relationship. It can work, but I think you have to be firm with her
> don't give her everything she wants. Otherwise she will trample all
over
> you. =
>
> Jarrod
>
> > =
>
> 2036022
>


Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.

lili

unread,
Jun 5, 1999, 3:00:00 AM6/5/99
to
HELLO MR KARL, TELL HER TO WORK AND U WILL MATCH EVERY BAHT SHE MAKES BY ONE
OR ONE BAHT FIFTY ST. OF URS.

Karl Jacob <karl-...@gmx.net> wrote in message
news:7j9s58$1o7$1...@news.online.de...
> Hi everybody !
>
> About oktober 98 I postet some private stories here ("unhappy married"),
had
> a lot of response and felt quite good for a while in soc.culture.thai.
> After a strange discussion with Vincent about drugs I felt a bit disturbed
> and did not post for some month, but I know this dicussions are common in
> active newsgroups even when I am not happy with that and for me many
> disscussions look like fights.
> Some people gave me the advice never to post anything private in
newsgroups
> and I know this people are not paranoid, but I don´t care.
> It´s also not easy to read sct, as there are so many mails and you need a
> lot of time to extract the things you are interestst in.
> Normaly I don´t have this time.
> But today a wrote a letter to a friend and felt like posting a part of it.
>
> For the people who don´t know me :
> I´m german, 34 years old and my wife is thai, about 24 yoars old and she

> lives now 2 and a half year in germany with me.
> Last autumn we had a lot of fights mainly because of her immature behavior
> and when we went to thailand over newyear I was not shure whether I would

> bring her back to germany with me.
>
> This was my letter today :
>
> I am ok, still with my wife and she is still often doing the same stupid
> things.
> Right now it´s friday night and I am sitting alone at home and she is
going
> out with friends.
> But what can i do, I am a very patient person, but one day my patience is
> over.

> Now she wants to make a house in thailand for her mother ( her family is
> very very poor and her mother has no house ), but a don´t need this house
> for myself and it costs about 600.000 Bt and I bought already about 13 rai
> land for her mother for about 180.000 Bt and I told her, when she don´t

make
> everything better here with me, I will never buy this house.
> I have to work hard for my money, I give about 10.000 Bt every month to
her
> family, but she thinks that´s not enough and she has no good luck.

> Sometimes I have really enough from her.

lili

unread,
Jun 5, 1999, 3:00:00 AM6/5/99
to

John Dunstan <jo...@alphalink.com.au> wrote in message
news:37592746...@news.alphalink.com.au...

lili

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Jun 5, 1999, 3:00:00 AM6/5/99
to
ANDREW, ASIAN WOMEN ARE NOT LIKE FANS OF CAMPING.
Andrew Lamb <and...@ucaqld.com.au> wrote in message
news:rT863.50$L42...@nswpull.telstra.net...

Froggy

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Jun 5, 1999, 3:00:00 AM6/5/99
to

Karl,
A marriage with a woman of the same age, culture and social level than yours
is already a very difficult challenge.
So, a cross-cultural marriage, with a younger woman from a different social
level is a real hard challenge.
I have got the opportunity to meet a lot of "mixed couples", associating a
European with a Thai but also with many other nationalities.
The secret of the succes looks simple: One of the two have to forgot his
(her) backgroung and to integrate him(her)self into the other one culture.
From your story, it seems that she is not really in a position to become an
"almost German" lady.
So, pack-up and live in Thailand.
Before living, follow also the wise advise regarding a contact with a good
lawyer.
Good luck

Froggy

Georg J. Cheatham

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Jun 5, 1999, 3:00:00 AM6/5/99
to
In article <kA363.1673$c4.5...@news030.image.dk>,

"heimo" <he...@image.dk> wrote:
>send her back to the bar
>Karl Jacob <karl-...@gmx.net> wrote in message
>news:7j9s58$1o7$1...@news.online.de...
>> Hi everybody !
>>
>>About oktober 98 I postet some private stories here ("unhappy married"),
>>had a lot of response and felt quite good for a while in >>soc.culture.thai.
>> After a strange discussion with Vincent about drugs I felt a bit
>> disturbed and did not post for some month, but I know this dicussions >> are common in active newsgroups even when I am not happy with that and >> for me many disscussions look like fights.

A lot of discussions are fights, sometimes called 'flame wars'

>> Some people gave me the advice never to post anything private in
>> newsgroups and I know this people are not paranoid, but I don´t care.
>> It´s also not easy to read sct, as there are so many mails and you need >> a lot of time to extract the things you are interestst in.

Is it the type of newsgroup reader that you have? My reader will download all the headers for articles, and put the articles under the headers in a sorted order. I can even just get the latest 'headers' and then chose to download the ones that I want, and can even read off line.

>> Normaly I don´t have this time.
>> But today a wrote a letter to a friend and felt like posting a part of >> it.
>>
>> For the people who don´t know me :
>> I´m german, 34 years old and my wife is thai, about 24 yoars old and she
>> lives now 2 and a half year in germany with me.
>> Last autumn we had a lot of fights mainly because of her immature >> behavior and when we went to thailand over newyear I was not shure >> whether I would bring her back to germany with me.
>>
>> This was my letter today :
>>
>> I am ok, still with my wife and she is still often doing the same stupid
>> things.

People seldom change their way of doing things, especially if they do not think that there is something wrong with what they are doing.

>> Right now it´s friday night and I am sitting alone at home and she is
>> going out with friends.

I see no illusions in marriage anymore. I am married to an older woman, but if I ever divorce, I would never consider to get married again, what for?

But my experiance with women is that if they are married to you, then they consider you to be their best friend. My wife would never consider going out by herself with out me accompanying her. Unless it is really important to her, and I completely refuse to go with her. It may be our situation here in USA, but I think that is standard operating procedure for most woman.



>> But what can i do, I am a very patient person, but one day my patience >> is over.

I think that you are really a patient person, and very understanding of her. But remember, that you are a product of the West, and she is not.

>> Now she wants to make a house in thailand for her mother ( her family is
>> very very poor and her mother has no house ),

My premise about women is that they marry for security. Love is only a window dressing, part ot the courtship ritual. Of course she wants to help her family. It is her obligation to her parents.

>> but a don´t need this house for myself and for myself and it costs about >> 600.000 Bt and I bought already about 13 rai land for her mother for


>> about 180.000 Bt and I told her, when she don´t make everything better
>> here with me, I will never buy this house.

The house is not for you. It is for them, of course you can stay there when you visit, but it is for them. Remember that in their eyes, you are a very wealthy man. You are their adopted son, or whatever, and they feel that you should be more than willing to help them to no ends. This idea is probably also in the mind of your wife.

>> I have to work hard for my money, I give about 10.000 Bt every month to
>> her family, but she thinks that´s not enough and she has no good luck.

Woman's main interest in life is to get security from a relationship. In todays world, that is financial, in days of old, that was a strong fearless hunter or warrior.

>> Sometimes I have really enough from her.

>> But I still don´t know what I will do.

Honestly ask yourself, why did you marry her? And ask yourself, why did she marry you? And do not lie to yourself about the answer.

>>
>> cu
>>
>> Karl Jacob
>>
>> may all beings be happy !
>>
>> ]]]karl-...@gmx.net[[[
>>
>> ICQ : 22036022
>>
>>
>
>
>


Contemplation is for the mind

Kinnear

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Jun 5, 1999, 3:00:00 AM6/5/99
to
Karl
In thai culture the kids take care of the parents for life after they cant take
care of themselves. It is expected and natural to do this. In the western
countries that isnt usually done. I personally think that 600000baht is a little
more than i would pay especially if you already have the land! Where is your
wife from, what city??? In korat my sister in law built a nice house for about
55000 baht. This was almost 20 yrs ago so it would be a lot more today but it is
not a real nice house but good for her and she raised 2 kids there. I would balk
at 600000 baht unless i knew what the hell it was for. I wonder if there are
some old gambling debt os something like that! I'm not saying that is so but
600000 is a lot of money at todays exchange rate it is over 16,000US dollars.
Jim

Karl Jacob wrote:

> Hi everybody !
>
> About oktober 98 I postet some private stories here ("unhappy married"), had
> a lot of response and felt quite good for a while in soc.culture.thai.
> After a strange discussion with Vincent about drugs I felt a bit disturbed
> and did not post for some month, but I know this dicussions are common in
> active newsgroups even when I am not happy with that and for me many
> disscussions look like fights.

> Some people gave me the advice never to post anything private in newsgroups
> and I know this people are not paranoid, but I don´t care.
> It´s also not easy to read sct, as there are so many mails and you need a
> lot of time to extract the things you are interestst in.

> Normaly I don´t have this time.
> But today a wrote a letter to a friend and felt like posting a part of it.
>
> For the people who don´t know me :
> I´m german, 34 years old and my wife is thai, about 24 yoars old and she
> lives now 2 and a half year in germany with me.
> Last autumn we had a lot of fights mainly because of her immature behavior
> and when we went to thailand over newyear I was not shure whether I would
> bring her back to germany with me.
>
> This was my letter today :
>
> I am ok, still with my wife and she is still often doing the same stupid
> things.

> Right now it´s friday night and I am sitting alone at home and she is going
> out with friends.

> But what can i do, I am a very patient person, but one day my patience is
> over.

> Now she wants to make a house in thailand for her mother ( her family is

> very very poor and her mother has no house ), but a don´t need this house


> for myself and it costs about 600.000 Bt and I bought already about 13 rai
> land for her mother for about 180.000 Bt and I told her, when she don´t make
> everything better here with me, I will never buy this house.

> I have to work hard for my money, I give about 10.000 Bt every month to her
> family, but she thinks that´s not enough and she has no good luck.

> Sometimes I have really enough from her.
> But I still don´t know what I will do.
>

Kinnear

unread,
Jun 5, 1999, 3:00:00 AM6/5/99
to
froggy
If karl was to move to thailand how would he work to support his wife and all of
her family??? Think about things BEFORE giving advice like that. If his wife is
from a poor family she is becomming very materialistic very quickly. I think
karl needs to have a talk about this stuff. I do send money to my in laws but my
wife gets mad when they ask for it. she once quit talking to them for almost 4
yrs because all they ever wanted was money. we never heard from them unless they
wanted money. You have to understand that to a poor thai family we in the west
are incredibly rich. most thais dont have a clue about the cost of living in the
west compared to in rual thailand. She wants everything and NOW not later
because she probably had a very hard life growing up in rual thailand. while
bangkok has prospered greatly the poor in issan still have a very rough life.
The poor farmer now can have a machine to husk his rice but most everything is
done the hard way...by human manual labor. I really think all she wants to do is
to better her family and herself, she just needs a little patience it cant be
done overnight unless you ARE rich.
Jim

acdo...@webtv.net

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Jun 5, 1999, 3:00:00 AM6/5/99
to
Yes Karl, Thai cracks can be a real pain in the neck at times. Here is
my advice; pull down her britches and wail the tar out out her dimpled
little buttocks. If this fails to elicit the desired response then
please do consider taking her back to Thailand and trading her in for
another, hopefully more mature, model. No need to feel any guilt over
it; you gave the situation your best shot but the stubborn little
party-girl refused to mend her naughty ways. But try the spanking first;
this often works.
Kindest regards A.C.


Jarrod Weir

unread,
Jun 6, 1999, 3:00:00 AM6/6/99
to

You are so tolerant. Do you have any children with her? I'm going to


make some huge assumptions here and if I'm wrong tell me. You work, she
doesn't. You probably give her money to spend, but she wants more. If
you give her money, say a weekly allowance, she would have spent all the
money in one or two days. She mainly associates with other Thai females.
She's from a rural area of Thailand probably the Northeast.

Don't give her any money to build a house for her parents in Thailand.

Don't give more than 10,000 baht a month to her parents either. If she
really wants to help out her parents then perhaps she should work
herself and from the money she earns she can help support her parents.

I would follow Andrew's advice and try and met other German-Thai
couples, and to also try and get her into an education program. One of
my German friends from Stuggart(sp?) has many friends who either have
Thai girlfriends or wives. In discussing with him farang-thai
relationships he sees from his friends that in the cases where the
relationship is good it is because the Thai woman has integrated herself
into German society. They can speak good German, understand the German
way of life etc.. From memory, it should be free for her to study
German. I think this is the best way to start to integrate her into
Thai society. This could help her get a part-time job, associate more
with German people, and which would in turn should make your
relationship. It can work, but I think you have to be firm with her
don't give her everything she wants. Otherwise she will trample all over
you.

Jarrod

>
2036022

Andrew Lamb

unread,
Jun 6, 1999, 3:00:00 AM6/6/99
to
+AD4APg- go camping together

+AD4- I doubt that the prospect of
+AD4-camping together is going to excite her either (a recipe for disaster,


Yes, sorry Karl, camping might not be so good. I didn't consider her
poor rural background. I was trying to think of something enjoyable
that the two of you could do together and which would involve some
degree of cooperation. Maybe teaching her to iceskate would be
more like it. Ice skating is a bit of a status youth pastime in Bangkok.

Andrew

Lumier

unread,
Jun 6, 1999, 3:00:00 AM6/6/99
to
Any marriage has to be worked on, a mixed marriage has to be worked on
much harder. From experience I totally disagree with your arguments.
My first marriage there was a three year age difference and equivelent
educational background. It lasted seven years, the last three was pure
hell.

I was 35 and my wife 25 when we met, we married a year later. We have
fights, many times caused by cultural differences, the best part is
making up. My daughter (step/adopted) says the fighting used to worry
her a little when she was younger, today she knows it is just part of
two strong willed people clearing the air. We have been together for
15 years, there have been ups and downs but we would not change a day
of it. I have to make allowances, she has to make allowances.

Her brothers thought I was going to be a meal ticket for them. I had
to help being as I married into the family. I found them jobs instead
of donating. They did not like work, thats just rough I did my bit
they get nothing from me. My sister in law bought a house for her
mother and sends her a monthly allowance which she gives most to the
wasters.

When we visited her last weekend, her mother was asking my wife for
money. My wifes answer was a blunt No! I am not giving my husbands
hard earned money to those parasites. She did clear her mothers debt
at the local shop for her.

What friends of mine have done is to invest a little money in some
venture eg: small shop or something like that so the family can work
and support themselves, from there duty has been done.

Lumier


On Sat, 05 Jun 1999 15:43:11 GMT, bunn...@my-deja.com wrote:

>For a different perspective.....If a man marries a woman 10 years
>younger than himself, from a background totally different from
>his-culturally and economically-what does he expect????!!!!!I was an
>idiotic twit in my 20's myself.....if he wanted a mature wife who wanted
>to sit at home with him then that is who he should have picked. I bet if
>we asked her there would be a lot of things she wished he would do
>differently....if you men would consider more than a woman's face and
>figure before you married, there would likely be fewer divorces....I am
>not saying there is anything wrong with a cross-cultural marriage, only
>that there will most certainly be more difficulties in adjustment that
>should be faced and worked thru first...it is hard enough being married
>if the backgrounds ARE similar....so my advice to our German friend is
>to examine yourself and see if there is anything in YOU that may need
>adjustment....and some marriage counseling may not be such a bad idea
>either-
>And forget about camping.Most (not all)women detest it.
>
>Cordially,
>Bunnyfire
>
>
>
>
>
>
>> > For the people who don=B4t know me :

>> > I=B4m german, 34 years old and my wife is thai, about 24 yoars old
>and =


>> she
>> > lives now 2 and a half year in germany with me.
>> > Last autumn we had a lot of fights mainly because of her immature

>behav=


>> ior
>> > and when we went to thailand over newyear I was not shure whether I

>wou=


>> ld
>> > bring her back to germany with me.

>> > =


>>
>> > This was my letter today :

>> > =


>>
>> > I am ok, still with my wife and she is still often doing the same

>stupi=
>> d
>> > things.
>> > Right now it=B4s friday night and I am sitting alone at home and she
>is=


>> going
>> > out with friends.
>> > But what can i do, I am a very patient person, but one day my

>patience =


>> is
>> > over.
>> > Now she wants to make a house in thailand for her mother ( her

>family i=
>> s


>> > very very poor and her mother has no house ), but a don=B4t need
>this h=
>> ouse

>> > for myself and it costs about 600.000 Bt and I bought already about

>13 =


>> rai
>> > land for her mother for about 180.000 Bt and I told her, when she

>don=B4=


>> t make
>> > everything better here with me, I will never buy this house.
>> > I have to work hard for my money, I give about 10.000 Bt every month

>to=
>> her
>> > family, but she thinks that=B4s not enough and she has no good luck.


>> > Sometimes I have really enough from her.

>> > But I still don=B4t know what I will do.


>>
>> You are so tolerant. Do you have any children with her? I'm going to
>> make some huge assumptions here and if I'm wrong tell me. You work,
>she
>> doesn't. You probably give her money to spend, but she wants more.
>If
>> you give her money, say a weekly allowance, she would have spent all
>the
>> money in one or two days. She mainly associates with other Thai
>females.
>> She's from a rural area of Thailand probably the Northeast.
>>
>> Don't give her any money to build a house for her parents in Thailand.

>=


>>
>> Don't give more than 10,000 baht a month to her parents either. If
>she
>> really wants to help out her parents then perhaps she should work
>> herself and from the money she earns she can help support her parents.
>>
>> I would follow Andrew's advice and try and met other German-Thai
>> couples, and to also try and get her into an education program. One of
>> my German friends from Stuggart(sp?) has many friends who either have
>> Thai girlfriends or wives. In discussing with him farang-thai
>> relationships he sees from his friends that in the cases where the
>> relationship is good it is because the Thai woman has integrated
>herself
>> into German society. They can speak good German, understand the
>German
>> way of life etc.. From memory, it should be free for her to study
>> German. I think this is the best way to start to integrate her into
>> Thai society. This could help her get a part-time job, associate more
>> with German people, and which would in turn should make your
>> relationship. It can work, but I think you have to be firm with her
>> don't give her everything she wants. Otherwise she will trample all
>over

Herbie

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Jun 6, 1999, 3:00:00 AM6/6/99
to

lili wrote in message <7jbjtc$vb$2...@bgtnsc01.worldnet.att.net>...

>ANDREW, ASIAN WOMEN ARE NOT LIKE FANS OF CAMPING.

I don't think you can generalize like that about Asian women and camping
Lili. My girlfriend comes from a poor rural village near Nong Khai. When
she visited Australia we went camping often and always had a good time.
Especially when she was getting down a bit or feeling homesick a weekend
spent camping would always cheer her up. Actually she even encouraged her
other Thai friends she met here to go camping as well. A large group of
mostly Farang/Thai couples went camping for four days together and everyone
had a great time. The girls would sit around the fire cooking together
nearly all day and us guys would go swimming and drink beer together. I
felt the whole group of us were much closer after that trip. Sitting around
the fire cooking reminded me a lot of the week I spent at Ban Phu which was
a lot like camping to me. Maybe camping made the Thai girls feel more at
home.
It does take a bit of getting used to though eating Thai food while camping
in the Australian bush. I'm used to the good old Aussie BBQ.
Sorry for rambling on but I miss her so much.
Regards,
Herbie.

imba

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Jun 6, 1999, 3:00:00 AM6/6/99
to

Karl Jacob wrote
/.../
> Now she wants to make a house in thailand for her mother ( her family is
> very very poor and her mother has no house ), but a don愒 need this house
> for myself and it costs about 600.000 Bt and I bought already about 13 rai
> land for her mother for about 180.000 Bt and I told her, when she don愒

make
> everything better here with me, I will never buy this house.
> I have to work hard for my money, I give about 10.000 Bt every month to
her
> family, but she thinks that愀 not enough and she has no good luck.

> Sometimes I have really enough from her.
> But I still don愒 know what I will do.

It's normal for her wanting to support her family. If she's unreasonable in
her demands, however, you could as well go to a go-go bar with that money :
the advantage would be that it'd save you a lot of money.
If she's really making a big issue of the money, if she's really
unreasonable about it, than

forget about counselling, etc...etc...
Counselling and all the other tricks are intended for couples with
marriage/relation problems. However (IF she's too much obsessed with the
money), in your case that's not the problem : you might not have a relation
problem with your wife, you are just living together with a person who is
waiting for your money and who -- if all that is the case -- therefore would
not in the least bit be interested in making things work again, because that
is irrelevant to her. Can't repair something if there is nothing to repair
to start with.
If it's a money thing, you could as well take someone who robs you in the
street to a counsellor to make your relation with the robber work...

There are other Thai women. I completely fail to see why someone would
choose to stay with someone who is only after your money, treats you like
unfairly (of course, because it would be stressful to live with someone just
for the money), and probably will have affairs at the meantime.

Wanting to improve her and her family's situation is normal for a Thai wife,
but if she's completely unreasonable, dump her as quickly as possible.
And if you do so, you'd better take more time in choosing your next wife. I
completely fail to understand why people take such huge risks : why not take
a looooong time to check out the wife one intends to marry ???

Regards,

Kinnear

unread,
Jun 6, 1999, 3:00:00 AM6/6/99
to
karl
that is great advice just beat her and maybe you will be arresetd and sent
to jail. Boy this guy has the right answers! I think he is watching to much
T V It doesnt take a man to beat up a woman but it takes a man to take care
of a woman! If you cant get her to change maybe you should divorce her and
try again. There are a lot of women in the world you just didnt get the
right one the first time.
Good Luck
Jim :-)))

Andrew Lamb

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Jun 6, 1999, 3:00:00 AM6/6/99
to
Dear Karl,
Some people are advising you to divorce your wife. I
don't think
you should do that. In Australian marriage ceremonies the couple vow +ACI-to
have
and to hold, for better or for worse, in sickness and in health, till death
do us part+ACI-
Did you make a vow like this to your wife? Are you planning to break your
word?
Now you are in a +ACI-worse+ACI- time, but when you were married didn't you promise
to love her even in the +ACI-worse+ACI- times? In my opinion it doesn't matter how
bad
her behaviour is (except for adultery) or whether your patience or money has
run
out. Maybe you even think it was a mistake to marry her, but if you promised
then
I think you must keep your word.
To +ACI-love+ACI- her means to choose to do what is best for her, even if it is
not what
is best for you. (This could mean not giving money to her or her family.)
Even if she does not keep her promise to you I think you should try 100+ACU- to
keep
your vow to her.

Don't give up Karl+ACE-

Yours sincerely,
Andrew

Karl Jacob

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Jun 6, 1999, 3:00:00 AM6/6/99
to
This are 2 fragments of letters to a friend:

My wife never worked in a bar and she developped many of her bad habits
here.
Sometimes I envy my friends who married thai-bargirls, as they allready had
their habits.
Education is shure a problem, my wife never had an acceptable job here.
It´s somehow like she has gone back to puberty and making that kind of
problems.

Maybe american men ar more clever than germans, but I never did meet any
educated thai-women here in germany. I don´t want to talk bad, I dropped
highschool myself, but no thai-lady here has a good job.
Many work at the airport for the airplaine-catering-companies, as
chambermaids, all kind of cleaning-jobs and so on.
This jobs are now really bad paid and the conditions are very unfair.
My wife had allready 2 of them and we were happy she got them, but every day
she went there I told her that I´m not angry when she drops as they were so
bad.
The third job she loved, waitress in a thai restaurant,
but she had to work about 80 hrs/week and had about 500 $ a month.
Most thais that work here in thai-restaurants come with a 1
year-working-visum from their boss and earn even less than that.
This job I finished, as she didn´t come home sometimes for 2 nights.
So most of the married thai-woman here end up as hous-wifes and really all
the divorced ones I know are prostitutes.
The richer thai-families are owners of the restaurants and food-markets.
I my town are even some thai-restaurants with every-night thai-karaoke till
4 o´clock morning. One is unfortunately about 100 meters from my flat.
You can imagine where she is many nights.
Now she didn´t have work for 5 month and we decided to take another course
in a language school to improve her german and have a bit of structure.
But it´s also fitting to her new friends, that are all about 16/17 year old
thai-kids, i hate their stile, evrybody has a handy, allways newest fashion,
only sanook, sanook...
Somehow we both don´t believe much in finding a propper job for her and this
is very sad as she really loves to work and is much more stable then.

Lumier

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Jun 6, 1999, 3:00:00 AM6/6/99
to
The old style was: Keep them pregnant in summer and bare foot in
winter. I can understand the wanting to beat a woman, the times I felt
like beating the hell out of my ex-wife, I could not do it!. I have
shot women, I could never beat one. Her therapist and lawyer I had no
problem with.

Her therapist was screwing her, part of the therapy showing her that
all men were not bastards like me. He wanted to sue me until I pointed
out the medical council may take a dim view of a phsycologist taking
advantage of a disturbed patient. When a therapist takes his patient
out for dinner, wines her and dines her and is seen leaving her house
at 5 am in the morning, while her husband is working 8,000 kilometres
away in the middle of the Kalimantan Jungle???.

Her lawyer did not know me from Adam, I was just a drunk (not so
drunk) in a pub who got into an argument/fight and missed his target,
accidently on purpose and punched the lawyer square in the kisser. I
was long gone before the birds stopped singing. Thank God it was
England not America. Being a local boy, born and bred, most of the
locals knew the situation, my family, who they had respect for,
typical Yorkshire morons, when the police arrived, it was a ten foot
six dwarf, with three heads who was drinking Courage Bitter.

Jim, I really got the wrong one the first time, first generation
English. Today I have a stupid Thai, which to me, long in the tooth
and no-ones fool, the sun rises and sets around her, and has done so
for 15 years.

To her, Stupid Farang, why you argue with my people why you risk your
neck, I want you around for long time! You can be arsehole, but Me and
Luk love you too much!!!

Lumier

John Dunstan

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Jun 6, 1999, 3:00:00 AM6/6/99
to

Andrew, Karl's 34 years old, certainly old enough to make up his own
mind about whether or not he should or should not keep his marriage
vows. The issue is not simply whether or not her "bad" behaviour
(except for adultery???) justifies Karl getting a divorce or not, but
whether either Karl or his new Thai wife are going to be happy
continuing to live together in the future, and only Karl and his wife
can really decide that.

The concern that I, and a number of other posters have, is that in the
future Karl may find that his wife runs out when the money runs out,
leaving Karl both without a wife and impoverished (it does happen!!).

However, if Karl and his wife really do love each other, then improved
cummunication is likely to offer the best means of resolving their
differences. Karl should consider enrolling in Thai language and Thai
cultural appreciation courses and his wife in German and English
classes.

Good Luck!!

bunn...@my-deja.com

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Jun 6, 1999, 3:00:00 AM6/6/99
to
In article <375a7bdc...@news.loxinfo.co.th>,

lum...@loxinfo.co.th (Lumier) wrote:
> The old style was: Keep them pregnant in summer and bare foot in
> winter.


That's terrible! Much better to be pregnant in winter and barefoot in
summer.....I speak from experience!

(for those that do not know-when one is pregnant one always feels a lot
warmer-summer is a miserable time to be with child.)
Lumier, you are a hoot....

bunnyfire

bunn...@my-deja.com

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Jun 6, 1999, 3:00:00 AM6/6/99
to
Aw Lumier, you know good and well I didn't mean you!!!! You strike me as
someone who has some sense...but you know as well as I do that for most
people love is blind(and stupid too).Too many people do not understand
how much work it takes to have a decent marriage...and unfortunately
even then there seem to be no guarantees....you have the life experience
and the background to know what you were doing-and it sounds like you
picked a good woman...I live outside a major Army base in the US
(Ft.Bragg)so there are lots of "mixed marriages"here locally...Korean,
German,Vietnamese,Filipino,etc.etc.......some work and some are pure
hell for the people involved.....all I was trying to say is that people
need to THINK about what they are doing and BE AWARE of what
difficulties they will need to overcome...I am a Southern gal married to
a man from the American West-even with that there are cultural
differences-I cannot imagine what it would be like to learn to adapt to
a person from another country!
But as you point out, it can be done......

Bunnyfire
(married 15 1/2 years..........)

imba

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Jun 6, 1999, 3:00:00 AM6/6/99
to
Completely support John's view. There's absolutely no use to keep your word
just for the sake of it : if it makes both less happy, the most sensible
thing to do is to separate. Think of it as being more honourable if that
would be what' it's all about.
Furthermore, if she's just after the money, there was nothing to start with
anyway, so there's nothing to repair. Karl knows his own situation best, but
if the post is anything to go by, there is a realistic chance he's getting
screwed. If Karl would think his wife's behaviour is absolutely normal and
inescapably so because of her culture : Kinnear and Lumier's posts showed it
is not. I personally know of other examples of Thai women who get pissed off
because of other women are after the money of their husbands.

The system of the "vow" is downright criminal. It's a completely artificial
concept designed for infecting you with a guild-trip.

Just to ridicule it, what about this :
The "vow" was of the person who vowed at that moment. After a few years,
you're somebody different. Even in the physical sense : guess how many of
all the original cells of a few years ago are left ? :-)

Regards,
--
Imba,

@ s k y n e t dot b e

John Dunstan <jo...@alphalink.com.au> wrote

bunn...@my-deja.com

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Jun 6, 1999, 3:00:00 AM6/6/99
to

>
> The system of the "vow" is downright criminal. It's a completely
artificial
> concept designed for infecting you with a guild-trip.
>
> Just to ridicule it, what about this :
> The "vow" was of the person who vowed at that moment. After a few
years,
> you're somebody different. Even in the physical sense : guess how many
of
> all the original cells of a few years ago are left ? :-)
>

Would you feel that way if someone "vowed" to repay you money you had
lent them?.. :)
Look ...I have been married for over 15 years.During that time I have
had a few moments when I would have sold my husband for 75 cents and a
bag of Cheetos.....but the promises we made to each other(before God)
give us a foundation to hang around and work things out...the commitment
gives the relationship a high value. Besides, our three children, who I
recall did NOT ask to be born, deserve a stable and happy two parent
household.My husband was a child of divorce...it was hell for him and
his sister...
We humans have responsibilities to each other...if one does not want to
commit then one is not marriage material.Of course there are some
situations where divorce is a tragic necessity, but it is exactly that-a
tragedy.

By the way....I am very happily married...but we work at it.

bunnyfire

Tom Clasener

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Jun 7, 1999, 3:00:00 AM6/7/99
to
On Sun, 06 Jun 1999 23:54:47 GMT, bunn...@my-deja.com wrote:

>
>By the way....I am very happily married...but we work at it.
>

Every day comes with a new set of challenges and "working" at it makes
us value each day more.

Tom

acdo...@webtv.net

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Jun 7, 1999, 3:00:00 AM6/7/99
to
Beating is not the best way.First you must try to reason with her.But it
is obvious from the initial post that he has already tried that.Now let
me give an example.I have a dog,irish wolfhound,I would never hurt my
dog,I love my dog.But sometimes when she has been very naughty I will
take her firmly in hand and give a quick sharp slap to the muzzle.Just
enough to get her attention.Now a good whipping with a razor strap
stands a very good chance of riveting this young gals attention and
changing her irresponsible ways.Now lets think about your
advice,divorce.She will probably get the house,the car and half of any
cash assets <stocks,bonds&the like>. All of this in addition to the huge
sum her and her family have already milked him for.Divorce?Not a
option!If it comes to that,better to take her home<thai.> for a
"visit",ditch her and catch the next plane home.Then hold your breath
and pray her parents did manage to throw all that money away gambling so
they can't fund her return trip to launch a legal assault on all your
<remaining> hard earned assets.Don't be a fool,these people are
completely mercenary and a-moral and will take you for everything your
worth.Take your fate into your own hands,its your only chance!
AC Kinnear says,
Group: soc.culture.thai Date: Sun, Jun 6, 1999, 8:05am (PDT+3) From:
kin...@usol.com (Kinnear) Re: Maybe some people remember me

Kinnear

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Jun 7, 1999, 3:00:00 AM6/7/99
to
ac
get real she aint gonna get the house etc because i doubt she would stay
around germany long enough. you have a very bad outlook on thais from what i
read. did you have a bad experiance where a girl took you for everything?
where do you get your information about the people being a-moral and
mercenary. I have been married to a thai woman for 30 yrs and havent noticed
any of these traits. of course there are exceptions to all rules and you
might be correct ...she might be smart enough to get half of
everything..that is assuming that german law is the same as US law and i
have no idea about that...do you know german divorce laws???It still is a
little different to smack your dog and beat your wife. I have 3 dogs one
being a 100 pound rotweiller and she gets a smack on the butt sometimes if
needed and so do the other two but they are dogs. You are talking and giving
advice to somebody to beat a human being with a razor strap. You should be
in jail or have your rear end beat if you do that. violence doesnt work
talking doesnt always work either, if talking doesnt work then you need to
make changes. give her a set amount of money for the number of years
involved and both go your seperate ways no more problems and no more expense
involved. not everybody meets and marries the right person the first
time...that is not a crime but beating a helpless woman is. thats why some
of these women kill their husbands or cut off some vital parts. violence
makes more violence and doesnt settle anything usually. DAMN i think i'm
qualified to be a marriage counsler...not... one more thing sometime when
you beat your dog expect to get bitten dogs are not people and act on
instinct not reason, we have the powwer to reason although some dont use it.

Jim

Lumier

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Jun 7, 1999, 3:00:00 AM6/7/99
to
Cool down Jim, he is trying to draw you. Probably his missus beats the
shit out of him and he is trying to get someone to return the
complement.

I have to be careful here! Any man who beats a woman to teach her a
lesson, bend her to his will or just prove he is a lord and master is
scum. In defending himself from an attack by an irate woman a man who
uses excessive force is scum.

snipped.

I have just cut another 50 lines of explanations why the hell should I
bother, the moron has no brain.

Lumier


snipped

Kinnear

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Jun 7, 1999, 3:00:00 AM6/7/99
to
lumier
maybe he feels like a man when talking this bull crap. a lot of guys talk
like that when the little lady isnt around. we call that the 10 mile
nerve. when you get 10 miles from your wife you arent affraid to talk a
lot of bullshit that you would never dream of saying if she were around. I
agree with you about the use of force. i'm 51 and have never hit a woman
came close once with this bit-- i have to work with but kept my kool and
didnt do it. in the usa now there is a law that says if you are convicted
of spousal or domestic violence you can not carry a gun for work or
anything. that cost a lot of cops their jobs when it went into effect
retroactive a couple of years ago. i dont want to lose my job just to hit
somebody.
Jim :-)))

imba

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Jun 7, 1999, 3:00:00 AM6/7/99
to

<bunn...@my-deja.com> wrote

>
>
> >
> > The system of the "vow" is downright criminal. It's a completely
> artificial
> > concept designed for infecting you with a guild-trip.
> >
> > Just to ridicule it, what about this :
> > The "vow" was of the person who vowed at that moment. After a few
> years,
> > you're somebody different. Even in the physical sense : guess how many
> of
> > all the original cells of a few years ago are left ? :-)
> >
> Would you feel that way if someone "vowed" to repay you money you had
> lent them?.. :)

I have thought about that also. :-) Fact is you're certainly not completely
wrong. What I did was show it from the other extreme. But it is true -- in
my opinion -- that because of the social pressure, the vow-thing formerly
been taken too litterally, etc... a lot of people have wasted their lives
and made it hell for each other, when it would have been really, really
sensible to call it quits and divorce.

Vowing you'll love your partner until eternity is like pledging you'll love
pzza with anchovis until the day you day : not that it has the same
consequences (the pizza wouldn't care less what you think of it); but it's
just something you can't know : you change and your partner changes. You
would have to be some kind of supercomputer that calculates all
possibilities over the next 70, 80 years or so, and says there will never be
a situation that can contradict my vow, therefore I'll vow.

> Look ...I have been married for over 15 years.During that time I have
> had a few moments when I would have sold my husband for 75 cents and a
> bag of Cheetos.....but the promises we made to each other(before God)
> give us a foundation to hang around and work things out...the commitment
> gives the relationship a high value. Besides, our three children, who I
> recall did NOT ask to be born, deserve a stable and happy two parent
> household.My husband was a child of divorce...it was hell for him and
> his sister...
> We humans have responsibilities to each other...if one does not want to
> commit then one is not marriage material.

Well that's one of the several reasons I'm not interested in marrying : it's
too serious a thing for something I don't take serious enough.
And however much I might try, in your specific case there's nothing negative
I can say about how you seem to handle your own marriage.

> Of course there are some
> situations where divorce is a tragic necessity, but it is exactly that-a
> tragedy.

Well, you do agree there are some situations that justify divorce, despite
the vow. And isn't part of the tragic exactly because of the vow sometimes ?
If somebody really genuinely believes in the "vow"-system, breaking that vow
could be quite tragic and add a lot of unnecessary misery and guildtripping.

> By the way....I am very happily married...but we work at it.
>

> bunnyfire

acdo...@webtv.net

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Jun 7, 1999, 3:00:00 AM6/7/99
to
FOR YOUR INFORMATION Uh theoldladyjust camehomegetbacktoyoulater


Jarrod Weir

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Jun 8, 1999, 3:00:00 AM6/8/99
to

>
> Would you feel that way if someone "vowed" to repay you money you had
> lent them?.. :)
> Look ...I have been married for over 15 years.During that time I have
> had a few moments when I would have sold my husband for 75 cents and a
> bag of Cheetos.....but the promises we made to each other(before God)
> give us a foundation to hang around and work things out...the commitment
> gives the relationship a high value. Besides, our three children, who I
> recall did NOT ask to be born, deserve a stable and happy two parent
> household.My husband was a child of divorce...it was hell for him and
> his sister...
> We humans have responsibilities to each other...if one does not want to
> commit then one is not marriage material.Of course there are some

> situations where divorce is a tragic necessity, but it is exactly that-a
> tragedy.
>
> By the way....I am very happily married...but we work at it.
>
> bunnyfire

Does anyone know if the original poster, Karl, has any children?
I agree with you Bunnyfire up to a point. I think that it is good to
grow up in a 2 parent home, but if he does not have any children,
perhaps its better to divorce now than to live through years of hell
once you have children. This is assuming of course that you don't want
to divorce when you have children as you think it is in the best
interests of the children to stay together.

Karl, think about whether you really love her, and don't have children
until you know?
If you don't divorce.

On a somewhat different subject, although it is related. Does anyone
know what would happen to Karl if he took his Thai wife back to
Thailand, and then got divorced there. Would she have as much claim on
his money, and house then? In NZ, and probably most other western
countries unless there is a pre-nupital agreement most things are split
50-50, so she would get half of all Karl owns. However, if they went
back to Thailand and got divorced there would this make any difference
to her entitlement? I know she could go back to Germany and fight it
out in the court, but what if she doesn't want to and trys to setttle it
in Thailand. What are Thai divorce laws like?


Jarrod

bunn...@my-deja.com

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Jun 8, 1999, 3:00:00 AM6/8/99
to
Karl, I just had a brilliant thought....why not tell her that you will
no longer help out her family financially unless she starts behaving
more properly?
Of course I am assuming that YOU are treating her properly to begin
with....

Bunnyfire

GypsyLilys

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Jun 8, 1999, 3:00:00 AM6/8/99
to
Imba, are you now giving out advice for the Love lorn?

>Wanting to improve her and her family's situation is normal for a Thai wife,
>but if she's completely unreasonable, dump her as quickly as possible.
>And if you do so, you'd better take more time in choosing your next wife. I
>completely fail to understand why people take such huge risks : why not take
>a looooong time to check out the wife one intends to marry ???
>
>Regards,

You sound like Dear Abby!

Take care of yourself, my virile young thumb pricker....

Lurking Lily

Karl Jacob

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Jun 8, 1999, 3:00:00 AM6/8/99
to
Exactly this is what I told her about 2 weeks ago.
Not to give any money to her family and not to built this house until she
will change.
Last and first time I did this (last october) she completely freaked out and
I had to call police to calm her down, now she says she understands my point
and will try.

Karl


<bunn...@my-deja.com> schrieb in Nachricht
7jj7f4$lcp$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...///

imba

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Jun 8, 1999, 3:00:00 AM6/8/99
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GypsyLilys <gypsy...@aol.com> wrote

Gipsyyyyyyy !!!!!!! You didn't forget me after all !!!!!
It's my new mission in life. Guess I have to make up for the Big SCT
Witchhunt War.
If I would give you a big cyber-kiss, would you wake up in SCT, princess ?

Craving Imba


imba

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Jun 8, 1999, 3:00:00 AM6/8/99
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Karl Jacob <karl-...@gmx.net> wrote

> Exactly this is what I told her about 2 weeks ago.
> Not to give any money to her family and not to built this house until she
> will change.
> Last and first time I did this (last october) she completely freaked out
and
> I had to call police to calm her down,

This is not a normal, healthy reaction. My decision would be to divorce. You
will probably not just decide for divorce that easily (it's easier for me to
say than you to do), so I would start paying careful attention on how she
reacts towards money-related issues. I'm willing to bet a good part of my
money she will react like that again, which would confirm my suspicions and
remove any doubt I could have.
From a normal, good Thai wife you should and can expect that (1) you will
have to help out her family with money and (2) that it has to be within
reasonable limits, insofar that she will also protect you against family
members becoming too greedy. A normal, good Thai woman would look down on
the way your wife behaves, and she loses face, and you would also lose face
and earn pity if you let her get away with it for times to come.


>now she says she understands my point
> and will try.

I doubt she understands, but you could as well give her the benefit of
doubt.
I always pay careful attention as how my friends-to-be react towards my
money. And I can tell you for 100% that not all Thai women or not all Thai
go-go bar girls are after the money. (I'm not talking about paying for a
"service"-situation)

Kinnear

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Jun 8, 1999, 3:00:00 AM6/8/99
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karl
sounds like maybe she is getting the idea. it's hard when you have nothing all
your life and suddenly you can bye what you want because you now have money.
hope everything works out for you.
Jim :-)))

Karl Jacob wrote:

> Exactly this is what I told her about 2 weeks ago.
> Not to give any money to her family and not to built this house until she
> will change.
> Last and first time I did this (last october) she completely freaked out and

> I had to call police to calm her down, now she says she understands my point
> and will try.
>

Jack Schmidt

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Jun 9, 1999, 3:00:00 AM6/9/99
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imba wrote:
>
> From a normal, good Thai wife you should and can expect that (1) you will
> have to help out her family with money and (2) that it has to be within

> reasonable limits...

So, what are reasonable limits?

rinpoche

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Jun 10, 1999, 3:00:00 AM6/10/99
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> So, a cross-cultural marriage, with a younger woman from a different social
> level is a real hard challenge.

With all the mail order bride ads and some other people here who keep telling us
that marrying a Thai woman is the best thing they can do with their lives, a
simple fact like that just doesn't sink in.

> The secret of the succes looks simple: One of the two have to forgot his
> (her) backgroung and to integrate him(her)self into the other one culture.

Short, simple and absolutely true. There is quite a number of successful
marriages local men to Thai women in my neighbourhood. The women come from all
over Thailand, are mostly "waitresses" but the they have one thing in common -
they all hate Thailand and have no desire to go back. What a sad irony.

webmaster.vcf

imba

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Jun 10, 1999, 3:00:00 AM6/10/99
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Whatever is fair and sensible.

Which is definitely not the case in Karl's situation.

Jack Schmidt <sch...@sdd.hp.com> wrote

rinpoche

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Jun 10, 1999, 3:00:00 AM6/10/99
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> A normal, good Thai woman would look down on
> the way your wife behaves, and she loses face, and you would also lose face
> and earn pity if you let her get away with it for times to come.

A "normal and good" Thai woman will certainly not approve of such behaviour when
*talking* about it. However, rest assured that when this woman goes back to
Thailand, she will not be ostracised. She will continue to have plenty of
"normal and good" Thai friends.

And who knows, when the next Farang talks to her about his horrible ex-wife, she
may act as if she is disgusted too.

webmaster.vcf

rinpoche

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Jun 10, 1999, 3:00:00 AM6/10/99
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> There are other Thai women. I completely fail to see why someone would
> choose to stay with someone who is only after your money, treats you like
> unfairly (of course, because it would be stressful to live with someone just
> for the money), and probably will have affairs at the meantime.

That's because many men completely fail to see that their Thai girlfriends are
like that BEFORE the marriage.

webmaster.vcf

rinpoche

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Jun 10, 1999, 3:00:00 AM6/10/99
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Herbie wrote:

> I don't think you can generalize like that about Asian women and camping
> Lili. My girlfriend comes from a poor rural village near Nong Khai. When
> she visited Australia we went camping often and always had a good time.
> Especially when she was getting down a bit or feeling homesick a weekend
> spent camping would always cheer her up.

And not too long ago, they featured a Thai hairdresser who trekked to Everest
Base Camp. So does it mean that if you marry a Thai hairdresser, you would
seriously consider a honeymoon in the Sherpa lodges of Nepal?

Generalisations don't apply to everyone but exceptions apply to even fewer
people.

A few years ago, when I was Kashgar near the western tip of China, I was very
surprised to meet 2 Farang-Thai couples. The girls were surprised to find
someone who speaks Thai at such a remote corner of the world and the 2 Farangs
told me about how much they were enjoying themselves. Later in the evening when
the 2 Farangs were fast asleep, the 2 girls met me at the lobby of the "hotel"
where we were staying (the former Soviet Embassy) and asked me for the quickest
way out of this god-forsaken place.

webmaster.vcf

rinpoche

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Jun 10, 1999, 3:00:00 AM6/10/99
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Jack Schmidt wrote:

> So, what are reasonable limits?

You're the boss and you decide.

webmaster.vcf

rinpoche

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Jun 10, 1999, 3:00:00 AM6/10/99
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imba wrote:

> Whatever is fair and sensible.
>
> Which is definitely not the case in Karl's situation.

I know a Thai man who gives his wife's family 20,000 baht a month and bought a
car for every one of her siblings. There are no absolute standards on what is
fair and sensible, are there?

I think some men here have too little self-respect. It is their money and how
much they want to contribute to their wife's family is entirely up to them. If
they decide to contribute less, then her siblings may have to work a little
harder. If he decides to contribute more, then the number of unemployed
siblings she has may suddenly increase in number.

I think it is very silly to get so caught up with following "Thai customs" when
the other side is not even respecting you as who you are.

webmaster.vcf

imba

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Jun 11, 1999, 3:00:00 AM6/11/99
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rinpoche <webm...@knapsack.net> wrote

> > A normal, good Thai woman would look down on
> > the way your wife behaves, and she loses face, and you would also lose
face
> > and earn pity if you let her get away with it for times to come.
>
> A "normal and good" Thai woman will

Mmmm.... I agree the "normal, good" part is extremely vague and very
inadequate to describe the sub-group of Thai women I am refering to. But I
hope it is clear enough intuitively.

>certainly not approve of such behaviour when
> *talking* about it. However, rest assured that when this woman goes back
to
> Thailand, she will not be ostracised. She will continue to have plenty of
> "normal and good" Thai friends.
>
> And who knows, when the next Farang talks to her about his horrible
ex-wife, she
> may act as if she is disgusted too.

Rest assured that I am refering to those who are more trong pai trong maa
and that the situation you described from which I would have gotten my
information is an extremely naieve and limited guess. (BTW I never had an
ex-wife anyway). And furthermore, I know how to evaluate information : I am
not going to try to convince you by writing a post on it that would take me
a few weeks. I have been dealing with rejects, junkies, outcasts, etc my
whole life. Only once in my life I have been conned successfully : I didn't
think he would risk and escape torture and a certain death by the DKBA.

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