Scars on Thaigirls arms
Geir Andersen
Why did they do it?
piccolo
<ge...@elektro-eksperten.no> wrote:
>What does the scars
-usually on the inner wrists from ulnar to inner elbow,
-on the neck, both sides of the jugular (very dangerous and can be
fatal)
> on Thaigirls mean?
-attempted suicide
>Why did they do it?
-to get attention from her mates (male and/or female)
-a cry for help
cheers,
piccolo
No offence, killfile but dont block me from posting
Lumier
track marks are left on the arms. These bird track marks are a dead
give away. The girls cut their arms to hide the needle marks.
You find this with all nationalities that have a drug culture. Don't
forget those little scars also tell you to use a double condom with a
super glue seal.
Lumier.
On Mon, 14 May 2001 19:21:26 +0800, piccolo <pic...@test.net.ru>
wrote:
Dont just stand there. Panic!!!!
Tim
the bicep of many girls. I was curious myself.
Tim
I wish I didn't know now
what I didn't know then.
Heimo
"piccolo" <pic...@test.net.ru> skrev i en meddelelse
news:6hfvft0tg40964bpl...@4ax.com...
Vagabond
>forget those little scars also tell you to use a double condom with a
>super glue seal.
I would suggest putting on a wetsuit.
Also, now that we know what the scars really mean, can we please put
the "happy hooker" myth to rest?
Vagabond
John Dunstan
wrote:
What do Thai girls having scars on their arms have to do with
prostitution?
John D.
Tom Clasener
>I thought he was asking about the circular scars about 1cm diameter on
>the bicep of many girls. I was curious myself.
>
Those are vaccination scars. Any Thai leaving the country will need to
have certain vaccination...I think these are smallpox vaccination
scars. Depending on the reaction they have to the vaccinations, the
size will vary quite markedly. I had the same vaccinations prior to my
overseas posting but I have no scar visible. I think the reason for
this is that we had regular vaccinations back in our schooldays.
I could be a little way off here, it was a long time back that I had
all those vaccinations...
TC
>
>On Mon, 14 May 2001 12:52:21 GMT, lum...@techemail.com (Lumier) wrote:
>
>>Illumination!, when the girls shoot up heroin on a regular basis, bird
>>track marks are left on the arms. These bird track marks are a dead
>>give away. The girls cut their arms to hide the needle marks.
>>
>>You find this with all nationalities that have a drug culture. Don't
>>forget those little scars also tell you to use a double condom with a
>>super glue seal.
>>Lumier.
<snip>
--
Don't just do something, stand there!!!!
piccolo
>I thought he was asking about the circular scars about 1cm diameter on
>the bicep of many girls. I was curious myself.
you mean triceps?
if it is triceps on a person above 23 years old it usually is the
smallpox innoculation mark. now this is done on the natal sole
but if it is biceps, i would be illuminated too what it is
Lets get the full question from the horse's mouth;
Hey Herr "Geir Andersen" >>><ge...@elektro-eksperten.no>
what scars are you referring to?
1.the fine ribbon-line marks on the arms?
2. the rope-like (more appropriately illuminated as "bird track marks"
on the arms, ( and in the case of drug addicts, these marks are also
found on the ankles, inguinal areas or practically any area where a
vein/artery can be located by the desperados for inserting the
needles)
3 circular marks as described by Tim, 1 cm diameter on the biceps(?)
or triceps(?)
4. none of the above three ...... please give full description on the
marks you are talking about
Vagabond
wrote:
>I could be a little way off here, it was a long time back that I had
>all those vaccinations...
I think you are spot on, Tom. I got two of those 1cm scars from
vaccination. Once in school, once in the military.
Vagabond
Imba
"Vagabond"
No, to start with : none of the posters in this thread got it right. So how
can you say "now that we know..."
Furthermore, what makes you jump to that conclusion ? (scars---> putting
"happy hooker" myth to rest) ? Because you "know" about that stuff ?
Because you work in mental healthcare or are interested in it as a layman ?
No, the fact that you don't even know what the scars are proves you don't.
Regards,
Imba
Vagabond
Dunstan) wrote:
>What do Thai girls having scars on their arms have to do with
>prostitution?
I thought that was obvious. When a patron rents a girl and discovers
scars as described by Lumier the patron should realise how "happy" a
life his prostitute is actually living.
The only question that remains is: Did she start selling her body to
finance her drug addiction, or did the emotional strain and dubious
milieu of prostitution lead her to drug abuse. Either way the result
is same-same.
Vagabond
Torben Larsen
On Mon, 14 May 2001 13:50:39 GMT, Tim <ngt...@solyimps.com> wrote:
Regards
Torben
Karl Jacob
> Why did they do it?
>
It´s nothing more than a common *psychic* or *psychatric* symtom.
IFAIK, but I might be wrong as I am no professional,
it´s called autodestruction.
Often to find in the west too, but due to different clamate and clothes,
you won´t see it as often.
AFAIK mainly females *get*/*do* it.
The reason is in many cases abuse, as abuse often causes a strange
relation to the victims own body and sometimes also a unability to feel
psychic pain.
Sometimes it´s something like a teenage-hype,
when girlfriends do it, the girls try it too.
It might be a wish for suicide and the unability to perform, the person
tries to cut the veins, doesn´t succeed, but learns that the cutting-act
gives some kind of relief, in the next *bad* situation does the same
and develops a habit.
If you are really interested, you should ask a psychiatric
or somebody like that.
To relate it to prostitution is rather simple, maybe you can see it more
often there, because a prostitute has not much to loose anyway as
people look down at her anyway.
My strong guess is, that the child-abuse-rates in thailand are
much much higher than in western countries.
I never heard about or saw scarves hiding needle points and the
scarves we are talking about are definitly not at that places,
where you would or could shoot drugs.
Karl
Imba
It is indeed auto-mutilation. Not scars from attempted suicide as was
earlier suggested, and most likely not even meant as a cry for help.
Auto-mutilation, which occurs more with females than males, is not just a
unique "prostitute" speciality, it is not a "Thai" thing either. It can be
found in all countries.
Ppl performing auto-mutilation will normally try to hide this from others,
mutilate parts of the body which can be hidden. Because of the climate, and
especially the "clothing traditions" in go-go bars, it is more easily
spotted in the go-go bars in Thailand (how can a naked go-go girl hide her
marks ?), leading to the false presumption that it is a typical Thai
prostitute thing. For all you know, that housewife further upo in your
street might have an arm full of marks, but you wouldn't know.
Why ? Because some people are not capable coping with the feelings they
experience (inner pain, mental problems, past experiences), and by cutting
they don't feel their pain for a little while, or it gives them a sense of
being in control, or even to feel something, etc.... It may even lead to
addiction. Why they can't deal with their feelings ? Maybe because they have
been sexually abused a.o., but by no means is this THE reason. It doesn't
mean that auto-mutilation is automatically caused by earlier sexual abuse
(nor that earlier sexual abuse automatically leads to self injury), a more
"innocent cause" could have triggered it : " not feeling loved enough" or
something like that.
I'm not a specialist, for more correct and detailed info... find someone
else.
Regards,
Imba
"Karl Jacob" <karl-...@gmx.net> wrote
Jonn500
What does the scars on white girls mean?
Why did they do it?
If you need more information (i.e. what type of scars and on what part of the
body, upper legs, breasts, mouths, buttocks, baby making machines, back, front,
etc..), I'll be at the corner making my own scar.
Jonn500
Robert Hauger
smallpox vaxination?
ROBERT B.HAUGER
Robert Hauger
Good point!!!,but the cuts on my ex wifes arm were from when she cut
herself with the sharp edge of her finger nail when under extreme
stress,In her case its a wonder her whole body isn't covered with cuts.
Ps. I did not cause the stress.
ROBERT B.HAUGER
Vagabond
sort is from self-mutilation (which I know exist but I don't know how
common it is - I have heard of it occurring in psychiatric
institutions). The second sort is from IV drug abuse and possible
attempts at hiding those tell-tale needle scars. The IV drug scars
should be common in countries where such drug abuse is frequent.
Adding to confusion may be that drug abusers ( or so I would imagine)
are more likely to self-mutilate themselves due to their difficult
lifestyle and the mental instability that goes with drugs such as
heroin. However, I suppose a trained person such as a doctor would not
have difficulties telling these forms apart.
Vagabond
John Fortin
students in Canada. Who knows what the root causes are, but appears to have
something to do with lack of self esteem..I'm no expert either, but it is a
well documented phenomenon from what I've heard.
>===== Original Message From "Imba" <Id...@want.spam> =====
>Regards,
>Imba
>
>
>"Karl Jacob" <karl-...@gmx.net> wrote
>> > What does the scars on Thaigirls mean?
>> > Why did they do it?
>> >
>>
John Fortin
johnf...@hotmail.com
johnf...@goconnect.net
yoon...@mailandnews.com
piccolo
>Illumination!,
> when the girls shoot up heroin on a regular basis,
what if it is not heroin?
and not on regular basis?
> bird
>track marks are left on the arms.
how big are the track marks?
> These bird track marks are a dead
>give away.
> The girls cut their arms to hide the needle marks.
did you or do you see them cutting their arms ?
to hide the needle marks?
why?
piccolo
;=)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
Robert Nicholson
in Australia and after skin test many people got that punched there.
You're talking about the circular one with many needles that leaves
the scar I think.
Eric Servaes
"Imba" <Id...@want.spam> wrote in message
news:3b002574$0$3122$456d...@news.skynet.be...
> You're the first one with a rather good reply, Karl.
>
> It is indeed auto-mutilation. Not scars from attempted suicide as was
> earlier suggested, and most likely not even meant as a cry for help.
snip
It seems to be some kind of "tattoo" but without ink. The scars in the arm
represents a kind of symbol.It's been done also with cigarettes which gives
another kind of scarve. I read it in a magazine about tattooing. It seems to
become more and more common.
EricS.
piccolo
wrote:
>On Mon, 14 May 2001 13:50:39 GMT, Tim <ngt...@solyimps.com> wrote:
>
>>I thought he was asking about the circular scars about 1cm diameter on
>>the bicep of many girls. I was curious myself.
>>
>Those are vaccination scars.
on the bicep ? as Tim said?
Any Thai leaving the country will need to
>have certain vaccination...I think these are smallpox vaccination
>scars. Depending on the reaction they have to the vaccinations, the
>size will vary quite markedly. I had the same vaccinations prior to my
>overseas posting but I have no scar visible. I think the reason for
>this is that we had regular vaccinations back in our schooldays.
>
>I could be a little way off here, it was a long time back that I had
>all those vaccinations...
>
>TC
>>
>>On Mon, 14 May 2001 12:52:21 GMT, lum...@techemail.com (Lumier) wrote:
>>
>>>Illumination!, when the girls shoot up heroin on a regular basis, bird
>>>track marks are left on the arms. These bird track marks are a dead
>>>give away. The girls cut their arms to hide the needle marks.
>>>
>>>You find this with all nationalities that have a drug culture. Don't
>>>forget those little scars also tell you to use a double condom with a
>>>super glue seal.
>>>Lumier.
>
><snip>
piccolo
wrote:
no you forgot
you had three
one for chicken pox at birth
the other two are triple antigens on school going ages
piccolo
>
>"Vagabond"
>> On Mon, 14 May 2001 12:52:21 GMT, lum...@techemail.com (Lumier) wrote:
>> > Don't
>> >forget those little scars also tell you to use a double condom with a
>> >super glue seal.
>>
>> I would suggest putting on a wetsuit.
>>
>> Also, now that we know what the scars really mean, can we please put
>> the "happy hooker" myth to rest?
>>
>> Vagabond
>
>No, to start with : none of the posters in this thread got it right.
heheheh Imba, it is because our Viking friend has not come up with a
more detailed question on the nature of the marks and we are going all
the possible "marks"
and of course some saw illuminating fowl scratching marks
> So how
>can you say "now that we know..."
>Furthermore, what makes you jump to that conclusion ? (scars---> putting
>"happy hooker" myth to rest) ?
;-))))))))))))
> Because you "know" about that stuff ?
;-)))))))))))))))))))))))
>Because you work in mental healthcare or are interested in it as a layman ?
;-))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
>No, the fact that you don't even know what the scars are proves you don't.
;-))))))))}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}
>
>Regards,
>Imba
Eric Servaes
snip
.It's been done also with cigarettes which gives
> another kind of scarve.
*scar* not scarve....
EricS
> EricS.
>
>
piccolo
wrote:
>On Mon, 14 May 2001 14:14:02 GMT, jo...@alphalink.com.au (John
>Dunstan) wrote:
>>What do Thai girls having scars on their arms have to do with
>>prostitution?
>
>I thought that was obvious.
;-)))))))))))))))))))))
>When a patron rents a girl and discovers
>scars as described by Lumier
the bird marks?
or the fowl scratching marks?
> the patron should realise how "happy" a
>life his prostitute is actually living.
what makes you conclude that they are "happy"?
>
>The only question that remains is: Did she start selling her body to
>finance her drug addiction,
what if it is not?
> or did the emotional strain
are you refering this strain not due to prostitution?
> and dubious
>milieu of prostitution lead her to drug abuse.
what makes you conclude this?
cant the non prostitution factor lead to this problem?
> Either way the result
>is same-same.
No,
the psychological, psychosomatic and psychiatric anlyses would be
different
Tom Clasen is very good on this.
>
>Vagabond
piccolo
wrote:
>That mark is after a vaccination
that is for the 1cm (oval-- i have yet to see a circular)
hyperpigmented depressed mark on the triceps (but Tim said on the
bicep)
We still have to wait for the Viking to give more details on what
marks he is talking about.
piccolo
wrote:
>> What does the scars on Thaigirls mean?
>> Why did they do it?
>>
>
>Itæ„€ nothing more than a common *psychic* or *psychatric* symtom.
you have touched on a very valid point.
>IFAIK, but I might be wrong as I am no professional,
>itæ„€ called autodestruction.
also called self immolition
>Often to find in the west too, but due to different clamate and clothes,
>you wonæ„’ see it as often.
>AFAIK mainly females *get*/*do* it.
>The reason is in many cases abuse, as abuse often causes a strange
>relation to the victims own body and sometimes also a unability to feel
>psychic pain.
>Sometimes itæ„€ something like a teenage-hype,
>when girlfriends do it, the girls try it too.
>It might be a wish for suicide and the unability to perform, the person
>tries to cut the veins, doesnæ„’ succeed, but learns that the cutting-act
>gives some kind of relief, in the next *bad* situation does the same
>and develops a habit.
>If you are really interested, you should ask a psychiatric
>or somebody like that.
heheeh, as a "lay psychatrist" you have come very close.
you are very modest, Karl
>To relate it to prostitution is rather simple, maybe you can see it more
>often there, because a prostitute has not much to loose anyway as
>people look down at her anyway.
>My strong guess is, that the child-abuse-rates in thailand are
>much much higher than in western countries.
>I never heard about or saw scarves hiding needle points and the
>scarves we are talking about are definitly not at that places,
>where you would or could shoot drugs.
very sharp observation, Karl
we are waiting for the chemical abstractor to respond
>
>Karl
piccolo
wrote:
>It seems we are talking about two different forms of scars here - one
>sort is from self-mutilation (which I know exist but I don't know how
>common it is - I have heard of it occurring in psychiatric
>institutions).
what if it is not from psychiatric institutions?
you hear of Van Goth?
> The second sort is from IV drug abuse and possible
>attempts at hiding those tell-tale needle scars
Prove it !
iv/im drug addicts dont hide thier needle scars
this fowl scraching marks you are echoing is bull shits
> The IV drug scars
>should be common in countries where such drug abuse is frequent.
>Adding to confusion may be that drug abusers ( or so I would imagine)
>are more likely to self-mutilate themselves due to their difficult
>lifestyle and the mental instability that goes with drugs such as
>heroin. However, I suppose a trained person such as a doctor would not
>have difficulties telling these forms apart.
>
>Vagabond
Cheap Charlie
U.S.
it first began coming to prominence nearly two decades ago. The latest rage
is
inserting implants made of Teflon or stainless steel under the skin. Saw a
bloke who had a series of three balls, increasing in size as they radiated
out
above his eyebrow ridge lending a reptilian appearance. -CC
Tim
was also given down near the crook of the elbow. I meant the upper
part of the bicep just below the shoulder on the side of the arm (I'm
not a doctor), the same place tattoos are common.
John Dunstan
wrote:
>On Mon, 14 May 2001 14:14:02 GMT, jo...@alphalink.com.au (John
This again would appear to be a case of you projecting what you like
the situation to be rather than what the situation really is. The
vast majority of drug addicts in Thailand are male - the vast majority
of female sex workers, including bar girls, are not drug addicts.
John D.
Tchiowa
>On Mon, 14 May 2001 12:52:21 GMT, lum...@techemail.com (Lumier) wrote:
>> Don't
>>forget those little scars also tell you to use a double condom with a
>>super glue seal.
>
>
>Also, now that we know what the scars really mean, can we please put
>the "happy hooker" myth to rest?
Except for one little problem. That's not what the scars mean. Heroin
addicts
who inject on their arms shoot up on the inside of the elbow where the veins
are largest. The scars on Thai girls are near the wrist.
What those are a ritualistic suicide. Not a sincere attempt, of course. But
a
way of expressing deep sorrow, regret, unhappiness, etc. Often they'll do it
after they get jilted by someone they thought loved them. Or as a sign of
regret for the way they earn their living. Or because they've humiliated
their
families. Or some other traumatic feeling. Almost always they're drunk when
they do it.
"Happy hooker"? You're right. Most aren't. Heroin addicts? Some, of course.
But that's not why they have the wrist scars.
---------------
Tchi...@HoTMaiL.com
Talent does what it can.
Genius does what it must.
I do what I get paid to do.
Tom Clasener
wrote:
>On Tue, 15 May 2001 00:48:37 +1000, Tom Clasener <tom...@metva.com.au>
>wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 14 May 2001 13:50:39 GMT, Tim <ngt...@solyimps.com> wrote:
>>
>>>I thought he was asking about the circular scars about 1cm diameter on
>>>the bicep of many girls. I was curious myself.
>>>
>>Those are vaccination scars.
>
>on the bicep ? as Tim said?
>
Well, on the arm just below the shoulder. My wife has them, daughter
has them and most Thai women here that we know have them...the only
variable being their size. This inturn depends on the individuals
reaction to the vaccination.
I had a smallpox booster a few years back and there are no visible
marks now at thie point of vaccination. Presumably this is because I
was having a booster only and already had a high degree of immunity.
TC
<snip>
--
Don't just do something, stand there!!!!
Cheap Charlie
>Everyone gets that as a kid in the US and I never saw scarring. Mine
>was also given down near the crook of the elbow. I meant the upper
>part of the bicep just below the shoulder on the side of the arm (I'm
>not a doctor), the same place tattoos are common.
>
got
some inoculations prior to travel several years ago. She said "we don't have
that one anymore" when I asked her which one it was that that caused those
raised scars on the shoulder. I took that to mean a different, presumably
newer vaccine had replaced it in the U.S.. Too bad Thailand hasn't done the
same but if one is a live vaccine and the other "dead" there can be
epidemiological considerations for choosing one over the other. -CC
Cheap Charlie
>
>Except for one little problem. That's not what the scars mean. Heroin
>addicts
>who inject on their arms shoot up on the inside of the elbow where the veins
>are largest. The scars on Thai girls are near the wrist.
>
>What those are a ritualistic suicide. Not a sincere attempt, of course. But
>a
>way of expressing deep sorrow, regret, unhappiness, etc. Often they'll do it
>after they get jilted by someone they thought loved them. Or as a sign of
>regret for the way they earn their living. Or because they've humiliated
>their
>families. Or some other traumatic feeling. Almost always they're drunk when
>they do it.
>
>"Happy hooker"? You're right. Most aren't. Heroin addicts? Some, of course.
>But that's not why they have the wrist scars.
>
>---------------
>Tchi...@HoTMaiL.com
>
referring to. I've never seen them combined with junky tracks but have seen
bar girls who had suicide slash marks on the wrists along with a long line
of
smaller slash scars running all the way up the forearm. These are
approximately 1 to 2 inches each, horizontal to the arm, very close together
and in places partially overlapping one another. To my mind this type of
scarring could only be caused by intentionally and on more than one occasion
cutting the skin with a razor blade. They feel an emotional release of some
kind from watching the blood flow. Its a kind of aberrant little ritual
which
is more common to females. Little doubt some of the scarring of the wrists
of
SOME girls is this shallower variety of razor cut.
An I.V. drug users "tracks" will run lengthwise (vertical) on the arm as do
the arteries they are using. These well defined tracks in no way resemble
the
lateral, ultra thin scars that result from ritualistic bloodletting. -CC
piccolo
wrote:
>On Mon, 14 May 2001 16:08:00 GMT, reto...@hotmail.com (Vagabond)
>wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 14 May 2001 14:14:02 GMT, jo...@alphalink.com.au (John
>>Dunstan) wrote:
>>>What do Thai girls having scars on their arms have to do with
>>>prostitution?
>>
>>I thought that was obvious. When a patron rents a girl and discovers
>>scars as described by Lumier the patron should realise how "happy" a
>>life his prostitute is actually living.
>>
>>The only question that remains is: Did she start selling her body to
>>finance her drug addiction, or did the emotional strain and dubious
>>milieu of prostitution lead her to drug abuse. Either way the result
>>is same-same.
>
>Isn't needle marks usually on the upper arm,
No, Jimmy,
it can be anywhere where the desparado drug addict can find a
vein/artery to insert his needle into.
At first he starts with the veins in the inner elbows -- cubital
veins,
when that collapse, he goes to the ulnar veins near the thumbs
then to the veins between the ulnar and cubital
then the ankles
then, between the big toes
then, by that time, he becomes so thin, the inguanal veins show and he
inject through those
then, the spincter veins in the anus
finally the jugual veins
all these later procedure are done with the help of their fellow drug
addicts....... very pathetic and when they are high , we move in for
the kill
> while the long (suicide)
>marks are on the wrist?
yea, usually on the wrist using the razor which they slice skin to
draw blood
then they later go deeper to draw more blood
these fine linear wounds hardens (keratinise) to form fine scars line
marks and may not be visible unlessl you touch (palpate) them
there is a distinction though
a non drug addict who is not high on drugs suffers more pain when he
slices himself up
he may ameliorate this by slicing his wrist in a warm tub and if the
bleeding is gross, he goes into hypotension, coma and peace.
a drug addict is narcrotised mentally/neurologically and his threshold
of pain is higher and he does deeper cuts------ is this the fowl
scratching marks the luminous chemical abstractor is talking about?
> I always thought that the long marks, from
>razor blades, on the wrists, were a way for them to say "I'm not
>happy. I don't really like this kind of life." Sometimes a way to get
>attention. They never really meant to commit suicide.
i concur with you on this as stated in my first reply to the Viking
man
> I've never heard
>that they were made to hide needle marks.
this is what we are waiting for the luinious scter to respond.
> But, as I never myself ever
>have used any drugs (except for beer and Sang Som) I'm no expert in
>the area.
>
>
>Jimmy
>
>Jimmy Sjoegren, Chiang Mai, Thailand
>jim...@loxinfo.co.th
piccolo
>What does the scars on white girls mean?
>Why did they do it?
>
>If you need more information (i.e. what type of scars and on what part of the
>body, upper legs, breasts, mouths, buttocks, baby making machines, back, front,
>etc..), I'll be at the corner making my own scar.
>
>Jonn500
heheheheh, John500
you know what you are talking about
how about you telling us instead of abscracts?
piccolo
Hauger) wrote:
>Lumie
>Good point!!!,
what point, Robert?
i dont see the point ..... where is it?
Imba
"piccolo" <pic...@test.net.ru> wrote
> On Mon, 14 May 2001 20:37:08 GMT, reto...@hotmail.com (Vagabond)
> wrote:
>
> > The second sort is from IV drug abuse and possible
> >attempts at hiding those tell-tale needle scars
>
> Prove it !
> iv/im drug addicts dont hide thier needle scars
I also am not familiar with some kind of trend or so of IV drug users trying
to hide the needle scars with other scars.
It is quite possible that some IV drug users also perform auto-mutilation,
not to mention that their habit can result in a "not-so-healthy-looking"
skin, which may add to the confusion.
But systematically trying to hide the needle marks with extra scars ?
First of all it is absolutely impossible : you can't hide it with extra
scars, any amateur would still see it. Of course, some IV drug users might
try the impossible.
Moreover, adding more scar tissue will make it more difficult still to find
a good spot for a shot : it is difficult enough for a junky to find a good
spot for an injection.
And a real junky doesn't care about about the scars showing, (s)he cares
about scoring.
Those who still care about the needle marks, can still use their feet.
Regards,
Imba
Imba
"Eric Servaes" <eric.s...@chello.be> wrote in
That's something else again. In Thailand, the usual cutting marks are (lines
cut with a knife) or cigarette burn marks are auto-mutilation. (BTW For a
good attempt for suicide, the cuts should be done differently)
The tattoos without ink fall in three categories :
Magic tattoos : magic tattoos which don't use ink, are just plainly
invisible. It is also the intention that they can't be seen, but they still
have magical powers. Many Thai women may have a tattoo that way, though you
can't see it.
BTW, anyone who is scared off by tattooed woman because of a possible
increased HIV risk :
the magical tattoos are the most dangerous, because the needles are not
sterilized. (Of course, the magic may prevent HIV/AIDS (or not)). Not seeing
a tattoo, doesn't mean there isn't a tattoo...
Scarrification : a step further than tattoos in body-"decoration" is
scarification : a pattern is cut in the skin, and the scar tissue will show
a design, pattern, just like a tattoo.
Brandings : Same, but with burning the skin. But no cigarettes are used,
just a kind of burn-pen (how does one call these things ????)
The latter 2 (together with implants : horns, bumps,...) are not yet popular
in Thailand (or aren't even known ?) : haven't seen brandings or
scarrification in Thailand yet. Even here in Belgium, I don't know anyone
personally with these types of decorations.
The marks seen on Thai girls are still only auto-mutilation...
Regards,
Old Fashioned Imba
piccolo
EXACTLY CC
anatomically it is easier to slice onself on the arm from wrist up to
the upper arm HORIZONTALLY with a razor
forensic/psychiatric medical journals record extensively on this
the fine circular scar marks HORIZONTAL to the arms, through MANY
ATTEMPTS, can accumulate/overlap each other to form a ghastly array of
"bangles" stretching from the wrist up to the armpit
> To my mind this type of
>scarring could only be caused by intentionally and on more than one occasion
>cutting the skin with a razor blade. They feel an emotional release of some
>kind from watching the blood flow. Its a kind of aberrant little ritual
>which
>is more common to females. Little doubt some of the scarring of the wrists
>of
>SOME girls is this shallower variety of razor cut.
>An I.V. drug users "tracks" will run lengthwise (vertical) on the arm
EXACTLY AGAIN !!!!!!!!!!!
can this illustrous illuminating chemical abstracter explain to us how
and where he sees the horizontal fine scar marks which i originally
responded to "Geir Andersen" <ge...@elektro-eksperten.no>
[his original question]
From: "Geir Andersen" <ge...@elektro-eksperten.no>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.thai
Subject: Scars on Thaigirls arms
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What does the scars on Thaigirls mean?
Why did they do it?
[my first response}
From: piccolo <pic...@test.net.ru>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.thai
Subject: Re: Scars on Thaigirls arms
Date: Mon, 14 May 2001 19:21:26 +0800
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On Mon, 14 May 2001 11:08:08 +0200, "Geir Andersen"
<ge...@elektro-eksperten.no> wrote:
>What does the scars
-usually on the inner wrists from ulnar to inner elbow,
-on the neck, both sides of the jugular (very dangerous and can be
fatal)
> on Thaigirls mean?
-attempted suicide
>Why did they do it?
-to get attention from her mates (male and/or female)
-a cry for help
whereupon this illuminating response from:
From: lum...@techemail.com (Lumier)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.thai
Subject: Re: Scars on Thaigirls arms
Date: Mon, 14 May 2001 12:52:21 GMT
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Illumination!, when the girls shoot up heroin on a regular basis, bird
track marks are left on the arms. These bird track marks are a dead
give away. The girls cut their arms to hide the needle marks.
You find this with all nationalities that have a drug culture. Don't
forget those little scars also tell you to use a double condom with a
super glue seal.
Lumier.
as " bird
track marks are left on the arms. These bird track marks are a dead
give away. The girls cut their arms to hide the needle marks." ??
> as do
>the arteries they are using. These well defined tracks in no way resemble
>the
>lateral, ultra thin scars that result from ritualistic bloodletting. -CC
cheers,
piccolo
<ge...@elektro-eksperten.no> wrote:
>What does the scars on Thaigirls mean?
>Why did they do it?
>
>Lets get the full question from the horse's mouth;
Hey Herr "Geir Andersen" >>><ge...@elektro-eksperten.no>
what scars are you referring to?
1.the fine ribbon-line marks on the arms?
2. the rope-like (more appropriately illuminated as "bird track marks"
on the arms, ( and in the case of drug addicts, these marks are also
found on the ankles, inguinal areas or practically any area where a
vein/artery can be located by the desperados for inserting the
needles)
3 circular marks as described by Tim, 1 cm diameter on the biceps(?)
or triceps(?)
4. none of the above three ...... please give full description on the
marks you are talking about
JB
soc.culture.thai:
>And a real junky doesn't care about about the scars showing, (s)he cares
>about scoring.
>Those who still care about the needle marks, can still use their feet.
...and that's the bottom line.
An drug user who is "working" won't want overly visible track marks or
scarring. If they have overt marks then the price that they charge
(and the way that they look) should warn you off immediately. That is,
they will be cheap, look really emaciated and will be so unkempt and
unresponsive that... well, if that's your thing...
Has anyone, anywhere, ever documented the idea of someone trying to
hide the track marks with scarring? I have never heard of this - which
in itself may not mean anything but I have had many years experience
working with drug addicts. As Imba says above - they just won't care
whether you can see the track marks or not. A heroin addict doesn't
care about anything apart from heroin. However, self-mutilation...
well, yes, that is practiced by disturbed people all over this globe.
Any girl that wants to take heroin and work has two choices: either
smoke it or run the very real risk of not being accepted by the
mama/papasan. Drug addicts are a big risk and are (AFAIK) not
tolerated, i.e. they are fired on the spot. Have you ever seen a
female IV heroin user? Usually they are not a pretty sight.
No, I think this one thread where there seems to be more than the
usual number of people talking who really don't know what they are
talking about.
Let's look at the original, simple, post:
On Mon, 14 May 2001 11:08:08 +0200,"Geir Andersen"
<ge...@elektro-eksperten.no> wrote in soc.culture.thai:
>What does the scars on Thaigirls mean?
>Why did they do it?
Now as Geir has not posted since this question we've had one hell of a
lot of assumptions as to what he is actually asking.
What do scars on Thaigirls mean? Well, it could mean that they have a
lot of moto'cy accidents.
Why did they do it? Because they or someone else wasn't as good a
driver as they should have been.
Or... it could be where a beauty spot was removed because it was seen
as being "not lucky" - or just plain ugly.
Or... yes, it could be vaccinations...
Or... yes, it could be self-mutilation (for a number of reasons)...
Or... it is conceivable that they could be recovering addicts...
But until Geir clarifies what he was actually referring to (and
whether the scars are supposedly found on all or some Thaigirls) there
appears to be a fair amount of ill-informed conjecture and supposition
in this thread (i.e. more than the usual amount in SCT).
So... is it many scars on many girls?
Is it one scar on each girl?
Or are there just a lot of guns blazing off in the dark?
JB
Luminer
>...and that's the bottom line.
No, your grace,
notwithstanding
On Mon, 14 May 2001 11:08:08 +0200,"Geir Andersen"
<ge...@elektro-eksperten.no> original ambigious post
one "illuminating" shot darkens the room
thence
>.........a lot of guns blazing off
demanding explanation of his fowl scratch marks.
....Ken
Jimmy <jim...@loxinfo.co.th> wrote in message
news:bxQAOyR8Ri4sonqVJauZUEP=Nt...@4ax.com...
Isn't needle marks usually on the upper arm, while the long (suicide)
marks are on the wrist? I always thought that the long marks, from
razor blades, on the wrists, were a way for them to say "I'm not
happy. I don't really like this kind of life." Sometimes a way to get
attention. They never really meant to commit suicide. I've never heard
that they were made to hide needle marks. But, as I never myself ever
have used any drugs (except for beer and Sang Som) I'm no expert in
the area
A good sized tatoo, on the inside upper arm is a more suitable place to hide
frequent IV use.
Except....who wants an identifying mark, if not necessary ?
Regards.....Ken
piccolo
Hauger) wrote:
>Lumie
>Good point!!!,
what point, Robert?
i dont see the point ..... where is it?
>but the cuts on my ex wifes arm were from when she cut
>herself with the sharp edge of her finger nail when under extreme
>stress,In her case its a wonder her whole body isn't covered with cuts.
>Ps. I did not cause the stress.
>
>ROBERT B.HAUGER
piccolo
wrote:
>On Mon, 14 May 2001 16:08:00 GMT, reto...@hotmail.com (Vagabond)
>wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 14 May 2001 14:14:02 GMT, jo...@alphalink.com.au (John
>>Dunstan) wrote:
>>>What do Thai girls having scars on their arms have to do with
>>>prostitution?
>>
>>I thought that was obvious. When a patron rents a girl and discovers
>>scars as described by Lumier the patron should realise how "happy" a
>>life his prostitute is actually living.
>>
>>The only question that remains is: Did she start selling her body to
>>finance her drug addiction, or did the emotional strain and dubious
>>milieu of prostitution lead her to drug abuse. Either way the result
>>is same-same.
>
>Isn't needle marks usually on the upper arm,
No, Jimmy,
it can be anywhere where the desparado drug addict can find a
vein/artery to insert his needle into.
At first he starts with the veins in the inner elbows -- cubital
veins,
when that collapse, he goes to the ulnar veins near the thumbs
then to the veins between the ulnar and cubital
then the ankles
then, between the big toes
then, by that time, he becomes so thin, the inguanal veins show and he
inject through those
then, the spincter veins in the anus
finally the jugual veins
all these later procedure are done with the help of their fellow drug
addicts....... very pathetic and when they are high , we move in to
for the kill
> while the long (suicide)
>marks are on the wrist?
yea, usually on the wrist using the razor which they slice skin to
draw blood
then they later go deeper to draw more blood
these fine linear wounds hardens (keratinise) to form fine scars line
marks and may not be visible unlessl you touch (palpate) them
there is a distinction though
a non drug addict who is not high on drugs suffers more pain when he
slices himself up
he may ameliorate this by slicing his wrist in a warm tub and if the
bleeding is gross, he goes into hypotension, coma and peace.
a drug addict is narcrotised mentally/neurologically and his threshold
of pain is higher and he does deeper cuts------ is this the fowl
scratching marks the luminous chemical abstractor is talking about?
> I always thought that the long marks, from
>razor blades, on the wrists, were a way for them to say "I'm not
>happy. I don't really like this kind of life." Sometimes a way to get
>attention. They never really meant to commit suicide.
i concur with you on this as stated in my first reply to the Viking
man
> I've never heard
>that they were made to hide needle marks.
this is what we are waiting for the luinious scter to respond.
> But, as I never myself ever
>have used any drugs (except for beer and Sang Som) I'm no expert in
>the area.
>
>
>Jimmy
>
>Jimmy Sjoegren, Chiang Mai, Thailand
>jim...@loxinfo.co.th
piccolo
>Why did they do it?
>
>body, upper legs, breasts, mouths, buttocks, baby making machines, back, front,
>etc..), I'll be at the corner making my own scar.
>
>Jonn500
heheheheh, John500
you know what you are talking about
how about you telling us instead of abscracts?
....Ken
You are not aware of using tattoos to hide track marks? You believe that
smoking and booting are the only ways to take heroin? You believe that all
heroin users are 'emmaciated, unkempt, unresponsive' ? If so, and you do
have 'years of experience' you must have chosen to read, and believe,the
phamphlet ' How to spot a drug abuser'. Junkies are just like .....people,
and come in many varied forms......some successful, some failures, some
creative ......and some dying.
Let's ease off on the stereotype for the sake of accuracy....eh ?
Regards.....Ken
JB <J...@home.with.thecat> wrote in message
news:bb32gts5aeen99m49...@4ax.com...
piccolo
wrote:
>You are not aware of using tattoos to hide track marks?
Hi Ken,
where do you see or read this?
have you seen herion addicts (novice or hardened) using tatoos to hide
the track marks?
can you please tell me the exact places of the tatoos?
why should they hide the marks at all?
thank you very very much and in great advance.
JB
>JB.......you have many years working with heroin users ?
Yes.
>You are not aware of using tattoos to hide track marks?
I didn't say that.
>You believe that
>smoking and booting are the only ways to take heroin?
I didn't say that.
>You believe that all
>heroin users are 'emmaciated, unkempt, unresponsive' ?
I didn't say that and for reasons known only to yourself you have
taken that quote out of context.
What I actually said was, "If they have overt marks then the price
that they charge (and the way that they look) should warn you off
immediately. That is, they will be cheap, look really emaciated and
will be so unkempt and unresponsive that... well, if that's your
thing..." The "they" was in reference to addicts that have turned to
prostitution to finance their habit. In my experience those addicts
are not well-fed, do not take pride in their appearance and will be
unresponsive due to their mental state.
I certainly did not say that *all* heroin addicts fit that description
and I think it is very unfair of you to suggest that I did.
> If so, and you do
>have 'years of experience'
I do. However, by joining your assumptions with my statement it is
rather unfair to then go on and make the assumption that...
>you must have chosen to read, and believe,the
>phamphlet ' How to spot a drug abuser'.
Never heard of this "phamphlet". You have made several assumptions and
then tacked them onto a statement that I did make to imply that this
is what I think. You are wrong.
>Junkies are just like .....people,
>and come in many varied forms......some successful, some failures, some
>creative ......and some dying.
Junkies are not "like" people, they are people. However, all junkies
are dying... some faster than others but all are dying.
>Let's ease off on the stereotype for the sake of accuracy....eh ?
I wasn't aware that I had done any stereotyping. All your statements
are from your own assumptions of me and what *you* are saying I said.
Perhaps when I said "two choices" I should have included a third -
sniffing - but AFAIK most heroin use in Thailand is either smoking or
IV.
I don't have any experience of working with junkies in Thailand but I
have worked with them in the UK, Eastern Europe and Australasia so I
draw on that experience.
My experience is not just, as you infer, "book learning" but goes way
beyond that. Perhaps a deeper experience than anyone else in this
thread - but then, perhaps not.
I am intrigued as to your experience... when was the last time that
you were addicted to heroin?
If you have never been then where do you get your knowledge from?
JB
....Ken
JB <J...@home.with.thecat> wrote in message
Come on JB., I expect better from you. I could go down your list and attack
'almost' all of your statements.... including the leading and rather self
rightous 'when was the last time you were addicted to heroin ?' To that
foolish queery I would reply 'how short is your penis?'...about as relevant
I believe. To be knowledgeable on a subject does not necessarily imply that
, in this case, an ex addict. J.B. are you and your wife junkies hiding out
in Thailand ? A rather rude question don't you think ?
One of my connections to heroin and possibly methamphetamine is because I
make the drug 'ibogaine' available to people with considerable heroin and
methadone addictions. I am sure you are well aware of what the extract of
tabernanthe iboga can do for a number of well seated addictions. Hopefully
ibogaine will be as effective with seriously habituated methamphetamine
users in Thailand.
Your post that I responded to appeared, to me, as a sactimonious naieve
'health worker' who has little understanding of the reality of the average
person living with an addiction....choosing to make broad satements that
'usually' only come from people who deal with a small percentage of
heroin users who are in active desparation. Believe me, many heroin users go
to work everyday and look just like .........Tchiowa and Kinnear ?? ;-)
(no serious comparism intended)
Hey, maybe I am wrong about you.......this and the 'send ME money to save
the CHILDREN' campaign. I must admit that I am a little 'hustler sensitive'
and readily admit that I may have pegged you wrong. We are all pretty one
dimensional on line.
Seriously..........if you are interested in people with addictions and do
not know about ibogaine just punch 'ibogaine' into your favourite search
engine. There are a number of sites, possibly, 'the ibogaine dossiere' is
the more comphrensive. It is NOT a 100% magic bullet .....but the best
damned magic bullet available to date.
Maybe,some day we can arm wrestle in a filthy, up country, bar ? ;-)
Regards.....Ken
Phil C
--
http://cleaver.freeyellow.com/sad.html
and also http://cleaver.freeyellow.com/caption2.html
THE NEW ADD YOUR OWN FACILITY http://www.angelfire.com/ab3/caption/link
"piccolo" <pic...@test.net.ru> wrote in message
news:16tvftkjbc7ni2k2b...@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 14 May 2001 13:50:39 GMT, Tim <ngt...@solyimps.com> wrote:
>
> >I thought he was asking about the circular scars about 1cm diameter on
> >the bicep of many girls. I was curious myself.
>
> you mean triceps?
> if it is triceps on a person above 23 years old it usually is the
> smallpox innoculation mark. now this is done on the natal sole
>
> but if it is biceps, i would be illuminated too what it is
>
> Lets get the full question from the horse's mouth;
> Hey Herr "Geir Andersen" >>><ge...@elektro-eksperten.no>
>
> what scars are you referring to?
>
> 1.the fine ribbon-line marks on the arms?
>
> 2. the rope-like (more appropriately illuminated as "bird track marks"
> on the arms, ( and in the case of drug addicts, these marks are also
> found on the ankles, inguinal areas or practically any area where a
> vein/artery can be located by the desperados for inserting the
> needles)
>
> 3 circular marks as described by Tim, 1 cm diameter on the biceps(?)
> or triceps(?)
>
> 4. none of the above three ...... please give full description on the
> marks you are talking about
** Also many sundry scars from falling off motorbikes
car accidents and beat ups of life .
HTH
JB
in soc.culture.thai:
Then why didn't you? Instead you set up a straw man argument and then
decided on that basis to question what I said. Or, in other words, you
lied about what I did say and then attacked your own lies.
>including the leading and rather self
>rightous 'when was the last time you were addicted to heroin ?' To that
>foolish queery I would reply 'how short is your penis?'...about as relevant
>I believe. To be knowledgeable on a subject does not necessarily imply that
>, in this case, an ex addict. J.B. are you and your wife junkies hiding out
>in Thailand ? A rather rude question don't you think ?
Yes, if you go on to add that we are "hiding out" in Thailand... Yes,
if you include "the Other" in your question for no apparent reason.
Yes, if you are suggesting that we are junkies at this moment.
Otherwise there is a relevancy... You suggested that my knowledge is
merely book learning in contradiction to what I had stated. I asked
you if you have had any *real* experience of heroin addiction. Nobody
actually *knows* what it is like to be a heroin addict unless they
have been there. You can pontificate all you like but all your
*knowledge* is second hand unless you have had the monkey on your back
yourself.
No, my wife and I are not junkies hiding out in Thailand but both of
us have had our experiences in the drugs trade. Different experiences
and over before we met each other... but many years ago the Barbarians
would have shot me (and probably her) in an instant.
In your reply to me you attributed things to me that I have never said
and included some loaded questions. Now I don't know what you have got
against me but I object very much to such an unwarranted and dishonest
attack from you. You don't seem like the usual idiots that delight to
flame and attack others in this forum yet for some reason you have
twice decided to have a go at me. Why? Have I done something to offend
or upset you?
If you have the desire to "go down your list and attack 'almost' all
of your statements" then it is obviously "up to you". So far all that
you have done is attack me in the main for things that I did not say.
Why? Why do you feel the need to attack in the first place?
<snip>
>Your post that I responded to appeared, to me, as a sactimonious naieve
>'health worker' who has little understanding of the reality of the average
>person living with an addiction....choosing to make broad satements that
>'usually' only come from people who deal with a small percentage of
>heroin users who are in active desparation. Believe me, many heroin users go
>to work everyday and look just like .........Tchiowa and Kinnear ?? ;-)
>(no serious comparism intended)
Ignoring the obvious condescension in your post I wonder how you came
to such an opinion regarding me? Just from one post?
I know full well that heroin users can hold down a day-to-day job and
*look* normal (although it is not just looks that give an addict away)
but I was very specifically talking about those who turn to
prostitution - which was clearly stated in my post. Once again you
seem to be basing your attack on what I didn't say rather than what I
did say.
What have I said that you disagree with?
That a drug user who is "working" won't want overly visible track
marks or scarring? Do you disagree? Do you think that they *would*
want visible track marks?
That if an addict that has turned to prostitution and they have overt
track marks then the price that they charge (and the way that they
look) should warn you off immediately? Perhaps you disagree with that?
That a junkie that has resorted to prostitution will not be cheap, not
look really emaciated and will not be unkempt and unresponsive...?
Was it because I asked whether anyone, anywhere, ever documented the
idea of someone trying to hide the track marks with scarring?
Perhaps it was my quoting of Imba that an addict just won't care
whether you can see the track marks or not?
Or because I suggested that a heroin addict doesn't care about
anything apart from heroin?
Could it be that you disagree that self-mutilation is practiced by
disturbed people all over this globe?
Or do you think that drug addicts are not a big risk and are tolerated
by brothel-keepers?
Perhaps you think that a female IV heroin user is a pretty sight?
Those are all the things that I *did* say - quite a choice - yet you
chose to disagree with me on things that I didn't say. Why?
>Hey, maybe I am wrong about you.......this and the 'send ME money to save
>the CHILDREN' campaign.
Oh... is THAT what it is all about? You still have a problem with me
helping the poor schools in NE Thailand? This is the second time you
have used a totally unrelated thread to have a go at me because I'm
trying to help people less fortunate than myself.
Good grief, man... get over it. I'm not asking you to send me any
money. It's safe in your pocket. "Up to you". I never asked anyone to
send money to "ME"... to the Project, yes, but to "ME", never. So...
another dishonest attack from you.
And as for this "save the CHILDREN campaign"... go back and read the
web site.
So first you have a problem with me because I want to do something to
help the poor of NE Thailand now you have a problem with me because
I've also spent a lot of time helping drug addicts?
What is it with you, Ken? Have I ever asked you for money? Why do you
deem it necessary to post your sarcastic remarks about the little that
I am trying to do?
If I want to spend a lot of my time trying to help other people why is
it such a big problem for you - how does it even affect you? I have
spent a lot of time working both voluntarily and as my employment in
schools, hospitals, hospices, universities, re-hab camps, prisons and
many other places. Do you have a problem with that?
>I must admit that I am a little 'hustler sensitive'
Oh great... so now I'm a hustler as well. What have I done to you that
you find it necessary to insult me and make derogatory remarks about
my wife?
> and readily admit that I may have pegged you wrong. We are all pretty one
>dimensional on line.
Yet rather than finding out whether you have me "pegged" wrong you
would rather insult my wife and I and make dishonest claims about what
I supposedly said.
>Maybe,some day we can arm wrestle in a filthy, up country, bar ? ;-)
Somehow I seriously doubt that. I can't think of any reason why I
would want to meet you IRL.
Now if you have a problem with the things that I actually said, then
please feel free to state them.
However, if all you want to do is make gratuitous remarks against the
very little that I am trying to do to help those around me could you
at least tell me why you have such a big problem that?
I am seriously disappointed by both your method of attack and the lack
of any real argument against what I have actually said.
JB
....Ken
not understand?
What I did not appreciate about your post was the 'implication' that you
believed people with heroin addictions fit a general stereotype. As you
know, there are various levels of addiction based on consumption, frequency
of use, the length of time of addiction and nearly as important,
availability and access. All contributing factors that determine if the
'whore looks like a skank'
.......or not. I am sure you realize that some people 'nod' and some get an
energy boost from heroin.
I know an attractive heroin user who cleans her house when high, she vacuums
with gusto and also is highly sexually active when on heroin. The TV
stereotype protrays a nodding, vacant eyed, unresponsive individual. Often
accurate....but often not.
I do not have a great problem with you, however, I personally distrust
anyone who solicits 'money for the poor'especially when that donation is not
secured in a way that can prevent mismanagement. It appeared to me that you
have wide descretionary powers were that money goes. What guarantees have
you put in place to prevent you ....or anyone from absconding with the
donations? Calm down, I am not insinuating that you would use the donations
for your own well being, but it might be prudent to explain how you protect
other people's donation. I do not know who you are or anything about you
except what the on line character ' JB' posts. But, I have seen scams that
appear similar to the way you have set up your donations drive.
Please remember I do not know you personally........only the image you
present.
I do apologize to your 'Other' (notice the capital O ) and meant no
dishonour to her person or reputation. You , however have some explaining to
do. It is fine to announce your own shortcomings but highly inappropriate to
discuss your wife's personal life on line. But, perhaps you asked her
permission ?
I suggest that you fire back one good stinger at me (I will read but not
reply) and let this rest ?
Regards.....Ken
JB <J...@home.with.thecat> wrote in message
news:8756gtcs9igtrcn9t...@4ax.com...
JB
Whilst not at all interested in firing a "stinger" at you I will
respond because once again you seem to be ignoring what I have said
which appears to underlie a dishonesty in your responses to me.
On Wed, 16 May 2001 23:36:23 -0700,"....Ken" <cha...@island.net> wrote
in soc.culture.thai:
>J.B. I am not interested in an ongoing debate on who said what, and did you
>not understand?
All I have been able to understand is that you are unable to back up
any of your accusations.
>What I did not appreciate about your post was the 'implication' that you
>believed people with heroin addictions fit a general stereotype.
There was no such implication. I was very specific in the type of
heroin addict I was talking about - a point which you consistently
ignore. Do I have to type in capital letters or are you just
determined that your own misunderstandings must take precedence over
what I actually wrote.
>As you
>know, there are various levels of addiction based on consumption, frequency
>of use, the length of time of addiction and nearly as important,
>availability and access. All contributing factors that determine if the
>'whore looks like a skank'
>.......or not. I am sure you realize that some people 'nod' and some get an
>energy boost from heroin.
>I know an attractive heroin user who cleans her house when high, she vacuums
>with gusto and also is highly sexually active when on heroin. The TV
>stereotype protrays a nodding, vacant eyed, unresponsive individual. Often
>accurate....but often not.
And unless she is not just a user but an addict who has resorted to
prostitution to support her addiction your example has absolutely
nothing to do with the point that I was making.
I have known many heroin users from many different walks of life,
including one who was a dealer and practicing dentist. However, this
is immaterial. I spoke very specifically about one type of addict not
user - which part of this sentence don't you understand?
>I do not have a great problem with you, however, I personally distrust
>anyone who solicits 'money for the poor'especially when that donation is not
>secured in a way that can prevent mismanagement.
Another meaningless sentence. Having said that you have no "great"
problem with me you then go on to justify why you have me pegged as a
possible hustler. What was the basis of your conclusion? Once again
you show that you post on the basis of your assumptions rather than
making any attempt to discover if you are correct or not.
So.. having made some assumptions you decided to attack me using your
own assumptions about me to justify the attack. Thanks.
>It appeared to me that you
>have wide descretionary powers were that money goes. What guarantees have
>you put in place to prevent you ....or anyone from absconding with the
>donations? Calm down, I am not insinuating that you would use the donations
>for your own well being,..
But you already have insinuated just that. In your last post and in
this one where you have already said that the "donation is not secured
in a way that can prevent mismanagement."
Now I don't recall ever receiving an enquiry from you asking what
procedures have been put in place. But I have seen insinuating posts
which attack my character and motives and virtually accuse me of being
a hustler.
>but it might be prudent to explain how you protect
>other people's donation.
If you have questions then you are free to ask, others have found it
very easy to contact TRP. That would seem to be the decent way to go
about it. But, for reasons known only to yourself you would rather
assume the worst about me and post on that basis.
At the moment our main aim is to get TRP registered with the Thai
government as a foundation but it means we need c.100,000 baht in a
TRP bank account to do that. That means that our books would be
inspected by the Thai government on a regular basis and that we would
have "tax-free" status. Until such time as we have such an amount any
checks and balances will be those that we have put in place and are,
frankly, worthless. That is the very reason that we document
everything that we do... so that donors can see what happens with
their money. Funny thing is that all of our donors are perfectly happy
with the way that we conduct our business and the reports that we
give.
However, we do have monks, teachers, lawyers and local leaders
watching what we are doing. Perhaps if anyone needs to be worried
about me ripping them off it is me. I have invested more money and
time in TRP than any other single donor. So far I am happy with the
way that TRP is run.
Now all this plainly stated on our web site and in our newsletters.
What I don't understand is why you publicly post disparaging remarks
and insinuate that something dishonest is taking place?
>I do not know who you are or anything about you
>except what the on line character ' JB' posts. But, I have seen scams that
>appear similar to the way you have set up your donations drive.
If it matters so much to you, then ask. How much were you thinking of
donating to the Project? Personally I think this a load of BS coming
from you. There has been no "donations drive" that I can think of.
Some people suggested that I let SCT know what I am doing and when
first asked I baulked at the idea because I knew that there was bound
to be someone that would attack me for what I am trying to do. (SCT
is, after all, an NG in which someone was actually flamed for posting
on-topic.)
Sadly, you have proved me right. But it has left me curious. Why do
you choose to publicly attack me and the work that I am trying to do
when, as you say, you do not even know me?
>Please remember I do not know you personally........only the image you
>present.
Hmm... I wonder why you seem to be the only one that has me pegged as
a dishonest hustler? (Or have I now opened it up for a flood of "me
too" posts?)
>I do apologize to your 'Other' (notice the capital O ) and meant no
>dishonour to her person or reputation. You , however have some explaining to
>do. It is fine to announce your own shortcomings but highly inappropriate to
>discuss your wife's personal life on line. But, perhaps you asked her
>permission ?
Hmm... when, exactly did I discuss my wife's personal life online? I
take your "apology" at face value. (Obviously you only meant to
dishonour my person and reputation but her name accidentally fell off
the keyboard when you were typing.) When your apology is immediately
followed by "You, however..." the value diminishes immensely. Even
your "apology" is just another vehicle to have a go at me.
I talked with "the Other" a long time ago about the posts on SCT and
assured her that I would not identify her publicly nor write in a
derogatory way about her. She knows about most of the posts and has
never expressed anything other than mild amusement that people should
be interested in reading of our "adventures".
She remembers all of the posters that we have met IRL and appreciates
all the messages that get passed on to her.
>I suggest that you fire back one good stinger at me (I will read but not
>reply) and let this rest ?
My suggestions to you are simply this... firstly, please read what I
have actually written. As I have stated twice, I specifically wrote
about female IV addicts that have had to resort to prostitution to
support their habit. It was plainly stated in the original post and in
my last reply to you... it seems to me that you consistently choose to
ignore this whilst attacking the straw man that you set up.
Secondly, you definitely do not know me. If you prefer to assume the
worst about me then that is "up to you" but it seems a sad reflection
on you that you would rather assume bad than good and that you prefer
to post public accusations rather than even attempting to find out
what the truth of the matter is first.
Thirdly, if you really do want to know more about TRP then try asking.
A lot of people have given of their time and energies to support TRP -
both Thai and farang. We have the support of other foundations in
Thailand, we have received commendations from Monks, lawyers,
teachers, poo yais, an MP, a teacher's association, a local government
office and many ordinary people in Thailand alone. We have Thai
companies waiting for us to get registered so that they can support
us...
...then we have cynical Ken who knows very little about us or what we
are doing yet has taken it upon himself to make snide comments and
public accusations which can only be designed to degrade the work that
we are trying to do.
All in all your responses to me have been, in the main, dishonest.
When challenged on your accusations you have refused to support any of
them but have instead chosen to make new ones in response. Apparently,
you have nothing of any real substance you are merely being
contentious... and I still can't work out why.
Maybe it would be better for you if you just kill-file me (or ignore
my posts).
JB
WrdMizr
>> >>>What does the scars
>> >>-usually on the inner wrists from ulnar to inner elbow,
Girl is at a party, gets drunk, falls down . . . embarassed . . .
breaks a beer bottle and cuts herself superficially . . .
Ever get pissed off and drive your fist into a wall? Same thing.
David Shorter
> You see that everywhere. I think it's a TB inoculation I think. I was raised
> in Australia and after skin test many people got that punched there.
>
> You're talking about the circular one with many needles that leaves
> the scar I think.
The circular one with many needles is a test and is done on the
inside of the elbow. If it comes up red after a few days then
you don't need the TB inoculation. If nothing shows up then you
get the inoculation injection in the upper arm just below the
shoulder. After awhile this becomes slightly inflamed which leads
to the small round scar. I seem to remember that everyone got
tested at school in the fourth form (high/secondary school) so
that would make it 29 years ago.
--
Regards,
David Shorter
Oceania Audio
Auckland, New Zealand
JB
wrote in soc.culture.thai:
Many people have this in Thailand (and in the rest of the world)... me
too, I have a nice small, sexy version. :-)
JB
STEVETROY
that same question. according to him, government and non profit orgs. are keen
on giving young women norplant in the northern vilages, as well as throughout
all of s.e. asia. in thailand though its primarily in the poorest regions, to
alleviate unwanted pregnancy. the sad thing is norplant has been banned in the
west for two decades. basically is birthcontrol, placed under the skin, which
prevents contraception for a couple of years...however its been banned in the
u.s..to verify that i asked a couple of girls i knew in one of my favorite
bars, and sure enough their response was "when i younger, so no make baby"...so
now you know
JB
soc.culture.thai:
Thanks Steve, that's another possibility... the trouble is we've never
had an accurate description of what these scars actually look like...
so your explanation is just as right (or wrong) as anyone else's.
JB
Ron & Ree
>JB
Except for the fact that Norplant is used in the USA. As a matter of fact
my daughter has used it.
Ron Williams
JB
"Except for"... sorry, don't see the relevance. Aren't we talking about Thailand?
JB
rymov...@gmail.com
clueless foreigner
> I thought it might be that their Pimps burn them. I definitely saw two Hookers with the same scar / burn on their upper left arm..... ??
Good Soldier Schweik
meets in Thailand do not have a pimp. They are generally free lancers
:-)
And a round scar on the left shoulder is very likely a vaccination
scar.
--
cheers,
Schweik
clueless foreigner
clueless foreigner
Good Soldier Schweik
then 45 :-)
But regardless of whether they have a scar or not it is really
doubtful that they would have a pimp if for no other then most of the
girls, or rather most of the girls that foreigners would meet - bar
girls - are strictly volunteer labor :-)
--
cheers,
Schweik
clueless foreigner
I THINK HULK HOGAN might got the POWER to squeez her to SCREAM BEGGING to STOP. UNFORTUNATELY HULK was no where at that time.
Good Soldier Schweik
the older type of vaccination for some years longer then they did in
Bangkok. Although it is purely a guess.
--
cheers,
Schweik