Costs of maintaining Thai fiancee
Sean
maintaining my fiancee who lives in Bangkok with her mother.
I have been funding her for fifteen months and she's now completed her
education. She doesn't cost me a significant amount but I am suspecting
again that she's funding her niece's private school fees. Although I prefer
to see her well catered for, and in no way wish to see her experiencing
hardship, she is quite aware that I do have my own financial pressures at
the moment.
I may be off the mark with regard the real cost of living in Bangkok now,
because I'm aware that costs have increased a lot over the past year.
She has chosen to remain living in their small and grubby room. She has
been learning Thai cookery for a couple of months and prior to that she
completed her schooling. We are also expecting our first child soon, so
there would be some hospital doctor's costs too, although they don't appear
to be too great.
I send her exactly 500.00 GBP every two months. She asks me if I can send
her the money and it always seems to last exactly two months, almost to the
day.
Her room is apparently 3000 baht per month. It amazes me it's this much
because it really is grotty. The landlord has told her that she has to
leave because the rules state that new babies are not permitted. I am
somewhat sceptical of this.
She says that she "eats a lot" and of course she is also responsible for her
mother too. Also, she tends to use taxis now for transport, perhaps a
result of our time together.
The subject of her niece's education surfaced a few months ago. She told me
during a conversation that her niece was at private school and had a bus
provided to collect her from home each morning and return her at night. I
was quite surprised and later enquired about her sister and brother-in-law's
jobs.
It turned out that her brother-in-law receives 200 baht per day and her
sister works in a hospital. Since neither of them are well-remunerated, I
had difficulty reconciling this.
I don't want to take my fiancee to task over this; far from it. I just want
to know if she's being fair with me and telling me the truth.
If and when we marry, she stands to become much better off of course.
Whilst she will undoubtedly join me in England and I shall have a better
control over her expenditure, I am of course aware that her mother's costs
will continue. If I don't get a handle on the costs as they should be at
the moment, my fiancee might choose to have me over a barrel with regard to
her mother's costs of living.
I hope someone can give me a sensible and realistic answer on this, without
any preconception that my fiancee is ripping me off. We do have a very,
very good relationship. We talk every day and spend a week together every
one to two months.
Thanks!
Geoff B
"Sean" asked some difficult questions...
Hopefully you will get some sensible answers rather than the all too
frequent slanging . . .
Now I can't claim to be an expert in these things, but if you are
providing
the primary income for your fiancee and her mother, then the amount is
probably not extravagant for Bkk.
My fiancee is a teacher (not in Bkk) earning about 50% more than that, and
she is certainly not living a grand lifestyle. My contributon is about
the
same as your's, but it is going to buy a pickup (well, 85% of it is, the
other 2000B per month I don't begrudge).
It is one of the things you have to accept if you form a relationship with
a
Thai lady - the family comes as a package. I guess you have realised that
by now, and if you are lucky they'll return your generosity when they are
able.
I hope you've been honest about what life in the UK is like - Thai ladies
tend to have a rose-tinted outlook on most western countries. I'm lucky
because my plans are to move there, rather than have my lady come to the
UK.
Good luck, and I hope all goes well for you
_______
Geoff B
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Oakmark
Say Hey !!
My advice is to hire a private detective service in Bangkok. Let me
know if you require one.
5555 Yee-Haw !!
n_cram...@pacbell.net
> pickup (well, 85% of it is, the other 2000B per month I don't begrudge).
>
Bht 28,00 a month, of which 16,000 goes for the four-wheel drive pickup,
which is essential when you live up 30 km of dirt road from 'podunk'. The
rest supports her, her 102 year old mother, two full-time live in
farmers/handymen, the nurse/cook/farm worker and, of course, diesel fuel,
kii wah for 17 rai, etc.
I don't feel put upon at all, albeit stretched a little thin.
>
> Good luck, and I hope all goes well for you
>
The same.
--
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Lacau
news:d8a3um$hr3$1...@nwrdmz03.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com:
you say you are consiereing marrying the god lady and taking her to the
UK - several points:
1: Why. Thai girls do very badly when living away from families and worse
in cold climates. You should consider living in Thailand.
2: Have you actually tried importing a Thai girl in to the UK. Capturing
a fart, dying it blue and bottling it is easy-peasy when compared to the
immigration process.
3: Are you the only sponsor of this girl. Living out here, I see this
every day, falangs who think they have an exclusive. I frequent a bar in
Chiang Mai most nights, nice place, not pushy and some nice ghirls there.
Watching the comings and going of boyfriend visiting their "Fiancees" is
considers a sport here. We KNOW the reality and they (the poor sods back
home) don't. I'll give you an example - I have frequently been in bed
with one girl when she talks to her "boyfriend". She says "I kiss you
goodnight" and plants one on my cheek - he's happy and sends her more
money. BTW, this girl has a Thai husband soemwhere too and at least two
kids that I know about. Her boyfriend thinks she has no kids (so where
did the stretch marks come from, Blind Boy?).
So be careful, you might have got lucky and found a gold nugget of a
girl: They are the rare 1%. They rest are damn good at their jobs. So
don't invest more than you are prepared to loose because 9 time out of 10
you will loose it. I am aware that my present GF has just married a guy
and is heading off to Europe for a few months (he thinks for life) - she
is after a house for her family as the divorce settlement - and she'll
get it too. As she says, he deserve it ... he butterflied two days after
he married her, he doesn't care about her family (except they always want
money) and he wants her to live in Europe while her kids live with her
mother: I cannot argue with what she is doing - he has been an utter fool
all along, he thinks he has bought a wife and never looked beyond the
end of his nose. He will loose about 25000 Euro from his mistake.
NTW, I'm not a hard-nosed bastard ... my reputation here is one of being
a good egg, tolerant and an all-round good guy. I am very popular with
the local working girls - mainly because I DO understand where they are
coming from and how they work. And yes, they still try to play games and
a quick "Uh-huh, you not have thai boyfriend" or whatever generally
brings a heap of giggles.
Rule 1: be careful.
Rule 2: see rule 1.
Daniel
"Lacau" <no-...@noemail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9671776554EF...@81.174.12.30...
> "Sean" <3218321...@fjsfhdskfhs.com> wrote in
> news:d8a3um$hr3$1...@nwrdmz03.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com:
>
> > send her the money and it always seems to last exactly two months,
> > almost to the day.
500 pounds, that's about 37,000 bahts i.e. 18,500 bahts per month.
I have only one figure to give you to compare: My wife spent 2 years out of
Thailand with me. For the 2 years, she sent 20,000 THB per month to her Mum.
With that amount, the old lady was taking care of herself and of 3 to 4
nieces and nephews, all in Bangkok, none working. Rental cost was 5,000 THB.
When we came back for good, my wife discovered that the Mum managed to pile
up a little saving, about 50,000 THB. Don't ask me how, I wonder myself :-).
> you say you are consiereing marrying the god lady and taking her to the
> UK - several points:
> Rule 1: be careful.
> Rule 2: see rule 1.
(snip)
==============================
The post of Lacau is to be read seriously, very seriously. I would only
disagree on 1 point: the percentage of "good girls". It's much higher
provided that you extend it not only to the bar girls but to all Thai women.
And even, I believe that more than 1% of the bar girls could, if they are
given a chance, become faithfull wifes.
We are quite a number in this NG happily married since years with a Thai
lady. Nick, see his post above, is one of them.
But we also know about sad stories such as the one described by Lacau.
For the record, I spent 2 years living full time with my "GF" before
marrying her officially.
Just to make sure... Think about that.
Other small point, from my small experience: During those 2 years we spent
abroad, my wife was terribly home sick. Note that it was not in Farangland,
but in South East Asia, so no climatic problem! I spent a small fortune in
telephone, frequent air tickets to Thailand and DHL, the Mum sending those
Thai stuff not available where we were. Terribly home sick.
The happy stories like Khun Noi, who enjoys here life in the US since years,
are, IMHO, far to be the majority.
Cheers
Daniel
none
Sean wrote:
> Could I seek the group's sensible advice please regarding the costs of
> maintaining my fiancee who lives in Bangkok with her mother.
>
thats a hell of a LOT OF MONEY . you are almost certainly being taken
for a ride .
there may be other guys who are sending money to her ,its a nationwide
scam .
she may have a Thai guy on the side .i know one girl who is married to
a thai bloke and has 2 British husbands sending her money .
You would be advised not to take her to the UK ! you are likely to face
disaster after a short while. they just dont settle in most cases for
many reasons.
dont like the food and bad weather and too quiet locations.
and miss home life .
They soon get bore and fed up and want to go home . wouldnt you ?
Thailand is far preferable to living in the UK if you have money .
You would be better off going to live there , then you would stand a
chance of itlasting .
She almost certainly ISNT going without sex while you are not around .
probly a Thai guy is shagging her or maybe an expat in BKK.
They cant go without sex for long so dont fool yourself .
I feel sorry for you as you are almost certainly going to get shafted
bigtime.
Alex Gitlits
> every day, falangs who think they have an exclusive. I frequent a bar ....
You just said it...That's all we needed to hear.
Alex
Alex Gitlits
>
> you say you are consiereing marrying the god lady and taking her to the
> UK - several points:
> 1: Why. Thai girls do very badly when living away from families and worse
> in cold climates. You should consider living in Thailand.
What is so special about Thai girls? Are they creatures who should be
kept in a tropical zoo and cannot be taken out? My Thai girl has been
living and working happily in farangland.
I frequent a bar
This says enough about you.
in
> Chiang Mai most nights, nice place, not pushy and some nice ghirls there.
> Watching the comings and going of boyfriend visiting their "Fiancees" is
> considers a sport here. We KNOW the reality and they (the poor sods back
> home) don't.
The only poor sod is you and those who consider bar girls for their
partners are the low life sods.
I'll give you an example - I have frequently been in bed
> with one girl when she talks to her "boyfriend". She says "I kiss you
> goodnight" and plants one on my cheek - he's happy and sends her more
> money. BTW, this girl has a Thai husband soemwhere too and at least two
> kids that I know about. Her boyfriend thinks she has no kids (so where
> did the stretch marks come from, Blind Boy?).
>
> So be careful, you might have got lucky and found a gold nugget of a
> girl: They are the rare 1%.
Well if you are talking about bar scene, then 1 % would be a very
optimistic estimate.
> NTW, I'm not a hard-nosed bastard ... my reputation here is one of being
> a good egg, tolerant and an all-round good guy.
You are a typical farang kee nok who frequents bars and forms his
opinion of Thai women from what he sees in a bar. Why do you assume that
Shaun's fiance is of the same social standing? Well, you assume because
you and your women are of the same standing. You socialise with hookers
and you are of the same level. Stick to Stickman variety (no pun intended).
Alex
Alex Gitlits
Daniel,
I'm somewhat puzzled by your post. Lacau is one of those low life
frequenting the bars. He belongs to a Thailand, Shaun may have no
affiliation with. Why do you rush to assume that Shaun's fiance comes
from a bar scene?
Alex
sakuhachi
>
> Daniel,
>
> I'm somewhat puzzled by your post. Lacau is one of those low life
> frequenting the bars. He belongs to a Thailand, Shaun may have no
> affiliation with. Why do you rush to assume that Shaun's fiance comes
> from a bar scene?
> Alex
Say Hey !!
AS THE WORLD TURNS,
DAYS OF OUR LIVES,
TRUE CONFESSIONS,
AND IT'S ALL FREE HERE ON S C T LOONEY TUNES !!
5555 YEE-HAW !!
Daniel
"Alex Gitlits" <agit...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:42a96261$0$14820$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
> What is so special about Thai girls? Are they creatures who should be
> kept in a tropical zoo and cannot be taken out? My Thai girl has been
> living and working happily in farangland.
========================
Alex, your Farangland is Australia.
Not so far from home
Not so cold
Quite a large Thai/Asian community
Still somehow somewhere Asia.
UK, another story.
I would recommend Sean to "test" it by bringing his fiancee few months in
the UK, then re-evaluate the planning.
I witnessed enough Thai people, men and women, starting with my wife, being
horribly home sick in.... Singapore!
I can give details, I have plenty.
To be frank, I, ME, now would be homesick if I had to live in France! God
forbid :-((
Not everyone can do that without sever damages.
Well, if Sean fiancee can, good for him, but test it before.
Cheers
Daniel
> I frequent a bar
>
> This says enough about you.
========================
If we read it as "I frequent bars since years", I am with you, Alex
Daniel
> Daniel wrote:
> > "Lacau" <no-...@noemail.com> wrote in message
> > news:Xns9671776554EF...@81.174.12.30...
> >>"Sean" <3218321...@fjsfhdskfhs.com> wrote in
> >>news:d8a3um$hr3$1...@nwrdmz03.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com:
> I'm somewhat puzzled by your post. Lacau is one of those low life
> frequenting the bars. He belongs to a Thailand, Shaun may have no
> affiliation with. Why do you rush to assume that Shaun's fiance comes
> from a bar scene?
> Alex
I don't rush to assume that at all, Alex, but there is a risk.
We have to be honest here, 50% or more of the Farangs affiliated somehow to
Thailand started with the bar scene.
Not a Thai mistake, I don't mean that 50% of the Thai women are bar girls.
But where the average Farang goes FIRST when he lands first time in
Thailand.
Me, a long time ago, it was Soi Zero :-)
And you? Just joking. But be honest...
Now, maybe Lacau, whom I don't know, is one of those low life pigs who get
stuck there forever, and I know several of them. I wish them to be ripped
off and/or to jump from a Pattaya high rise balcony.
But that's not my point.
I read without participating SCT for quite a while when I first met the lady
who is today my wife.
I learned about those sad stories, as there are quite a lot of sad stories,
it's a fact.
Then I have done my homework and here I am today: 5 years married and that's
Talodpai! (Is that one correct?)
So better have Sean doing his homework, checking, waiting, cross checking,
inquiring, thinking, etc...
2 solutions:
She is the one. Hey, Sean, welcome to the club, happy man!
She is not. Sorry, Sean, we told you....
It's our duty to help happy story to develop and to help sad story not to
happen.
My 2 cents :-)
Cheers
Daniel
Alex Gitlits
> "Alex Gitlits" <agit...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:42a962f9$0$14820$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
>
>>Daniel wrote:
>>
>>>"Lacau" <no-...@noemail.com> wrote in message
>>>news:Xns9671776554EF...@81.174.12.30...
>>>
>>>>"Sean" <3218321...@fjsfhdskfhs.com> wrote in
>>>>news:d8a3um$hr3$1...@nwrdmz03.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com:
>
> Daniel,
>
>>I'm somewhat puzzled by your post. Lacau is one of those low life
>>frequenting the bars. He belongs to a Thailand, Shaun may have no
>>affiliation with. Why do you rush to assume that Shaun's fiance comes
>>from a bar scene?
>>Alex
>
>
> I don't rush to assume that at all, Alex, but there is a risk.
> We have to be honest here, 50% or more of the Farangs affiliated somehow to
> Thailand started with the bar scene.
> Not a Thai mistake, I don't mean that 50% of the Thai women are bar girls.
> But where the average Farang goes FIRST when he lands first time in
> Thailand.
Ok, I take your point, Daniel. But would pay to ask for her and his
background first. I suspect there are less farang kee noks than you may
assume. At least Shaun bothered to use SCT to check where he stands :-)
> Me, a long time ago, it was Soi Zero :-)
> And you? Just joking. But be honest...
To be honest, I never was exposed to the bar scene, not once. I first
arrived to Thailand when I already knew a girl (non bar girl) from
Korat. I came to see her and my friend (her brother whome we attended
uni togther with) in Thailand and I was never exposed to the bar scene.
I never was interested in this aspect of Thailand, anyway. I am also
from a different generation of farang. (I assume I am significantly
younger than you are, I'm 30, was 24 when I first came to Thailand). May
be that's why the bar scene never held anything for me - let's face it.
The majority of farang needing to use bars are those over 30 and mostly
over 40 yrs old.
Alex
Alex Gitlits
> "Alex Gitlits" <agit...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:42a96261$0$14820$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
>
>
>>What is so special about Thai girls? Are they creatures who should be
>>kept in a tropical zoo and cannot be taken out? My Thai girl has been
>>living and working happily in farangland.
>
> ========================
> Alex, your Farangland is Australia.
> Not so far from home
> Not so cold
> Quite a large Thai/Asian community
> Still somehow somewhere Asia.
>
> UK, another story.
Danile, I bet a major city in UK has a larger Thai community than any
city in Australia.
> I would recommend Sean to "test" it by bringing his fiancee few months in
> the UK, then re-evaluate the planning.
> I witnessed enough Thai people, men and women, starting with my wife, being
> horribly home sick in.... Singapore!
Suprisingly, my experience differs. I am yet to find a Thai who had
severe homesickness staying in Australia.
> I can give details, I have plenty.
> To be frank, I, ME, now would be homesick if I had to live in France! God
> forbid :-((
That, I can believe. I am Thailandsick right now. Thank god for upcoming
trip in a few months :-)
> Not everyone can do that without sever damages.
> Well, if Sean fiancee can, good for him, but test it before.
Also, testing is not representative of the real thing. Holiday in
Thailand is a poor guide to living there, the same goes for every other
country.
Chhers
Alex
scr...@hotmail.com
like to add a few thoughts.
Firstly I must tell you that nothing, nothing, NOTHING in Thailand is
ever quite what it seems to be on the surface!!
How much do you know about her background?
Yes for a grotty room that seems dear to me, you can rent a reasonably
big two storey town house here in the Ratchadaa area for 6000 a month.
Grotty rooms around here are 2500 a month, plus utilities. Most grotty
room buildings in BKK (usually called Heavenly Mansions or something
like that) have no objections to a new baby in the building, those
places are fairly noisy anyhow and as long as the rent is paid that's
all most landlords care about.
That brings me to the most important person in your post.... the unborn
child... Sean you have dug yourself a hole!! I MUST ask you, are you
certain it is your child... do you *really* know!! Do you REALLY know
what your fiance does when you are not in Thailand? are there holes in
her story? do have any doubts? Your instincts will usually be right.
You wouldn't be the first farang whose girl has got pregnant to trap a
guy. Also if she wasn't pregnant, ask yourself, would you still be
happy for the relationship to go on?
Once the child is born and you are supporting it, and you *don't* get
married and live together, then your problems are really only
beginning.
Suppose the relationship breaks down, can you stand the thought of your
child living in Thailand with it's mother with a string of farang and
possibly Thai "uncles" coming and going, the child possibly being
shunted from relative to relative while it's mother is "away" As the
father of two beautiful boys, It would drive me crazy wondering what is
happening to the child.
The demands on you for money to take care of the child will of course
get larger and If you don't cough up the child will be used as a weapon
against you.
I'm sorry to sound so negative Sean and I really hope things work out
for you, as you sound to me to be a decent guy, but these are things
that you may not have considered
There is no doubt about it most Farang /Thai relationships fail for
various reasons,
That doesn't mean to say that yours will, but It's not going to be easy
for you.
The very best of luck.
Sandy
Daniel
> Daniel wrote:
>
> > "Alex Gitlits" <agit...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:42a962f9$0$14820$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
> >
> >>Daniel wrote:
> >>
> >>>"Lacau" <no-...@noemail.com> wrote in message
> >>>news:Xns9671776554EF...@81.174.12.30...
> >>>
> >>>>"Sean" <3218321...@fjsfhdskfhs.com> wrote in
> >>>>news:d8a3um$hr3$1...@nwrdmz03.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com:
significantly
> younger than you are, I'm 30, was 24 when I first came to Thailand). May
> be that's why the bar scene never held anything for me - let's face it.
> The majority of farang needing to use bars are those over 30 and mostly
> over 40 yrs old
No Alex, you are not from a different type of generation.
Maybe a member of the lucky few, but that's all.
The cliche you posted above (Please, take it as a friendly remark, thanks)
is a time old one.
YES, the majority of Soi Nana, Cowboy or whatever Soi customers are over 40.
BUT the majority only. Many young chaps are there.
And the HUGE majority of the "sad stories" we read here are the stories of
young chaps.
Mature men like me and others can't get cheated so easily.
We know. Been there, done it.
Cheers
Daniel
Daniel
> Daniel wrote:
>
> > "Alex Gitlits" <agit...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:42a96261$0$14820$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
> >
>
homesickness staying in Australia.
Mmmhh! I should visit Australia! Never been there.
OK, whatever was written in my previous post applies to Europe only.
Cheers
Daniel
Daniel
<scr...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1118414508....@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
Hi Sean,
Print above post in full colour, frame it on your wall, read it at least 3
times every morning, think about it peacefully and come back to us.
But beware, many of us told you...
50/50.
Sincerely, I wish you to be in the good 50%, but..... make sure.
Cheers
Daniel
Daniel
> like to add a few thoughts.
>
> Firstly I must tell you that nothing, nothing, NOTHING in Thailand is
> ever quite what it seems to be on the surface!!
(Snipped for bandwidth bosses:-)
Can someone here around remind me the name of the chap who was recently
pretending that Sandy was "bookish" or someshit of that sort?
Just forgot it, bad memory, getting old, please help, thanks in advance.
Cheers
Daniel
none
> I hope someone can give me a sensible and realistic answer on this, without
> any preconception that my fiancee is ripping me off. We do have a very,
> very good relationship. We talk every day and spend a week together every
> one to two months.
>
> Thanks!
i was in bed with one girl i met last month (not a sex worker) she had
been gobbling my cock & balls all night ,and then casually mentions in
the morning that shes going to join her fiancee in the UK in a few
weeks !!
Thai women nowadays are treacherous ,promiscuous and highly
untrustworthy !
they will hop into bed and have sex with any Tom, Dick or Harry that
happens to come along !
If i have met a thai girl who could be trusted for more than a few days
not to get
her pants off for some guy who she has just met after getting married
to some other twat ,they deserve all they get ,dumb suckers.
none
know the answer ?
none
mistake
,its a cheaper option than losing everything.
Geoff B
"none" indcated the sorted of circles he moved in...
>
> i was in bed with one girl i met last month (not a sex worker) . . . etc
.
> . .
Hmmm - not a typical Thai lady, then.
Things would be much better here if we didn't take tales of "bar life" as
the norm in LoS.
They might even be better in LoS if farang didn't expect such things to be
the norm . . .
_______
Geoff B
n_cram...@pacbell.net
How would he find a PD who is trustworthy, reliable, ethical, etc?
orang37
>> Hmmm - not a typical Thai lady, then.
>> Things would be much better here if we didn't take tales of "bar
>> life" as the norm in LoS.
>> They might even be better in LoS if farang didn't expect such things
>> to be the norm . . .
Hmmmm ... Khun Geoff,
You've given me a new slant on LOS :
"LOS as self-fulfilling fantasy"
thanks !
~o:37;
Geoff B
"orang37" replied...
I'm honoured to think that I might have stumbled across something you missed
8¬ )
BTW - did you receive my email from outside the group? Nong and I would be
interested to meet you during my next visit in October 8¬)
With respect,
_______
Geoff B
Alex Gitlits
Shaun,
Above, Sandy gave you excellent advice. Take it.
Alex
>
scr...@hotmail.com
scr...@hotmail.com
When the child is born, you should have a DNA or paternity test to
determine if the child is yours. If it is, then you must accept full
responsibility for it and it's mother. Believe me having a child
changes your perspective on life. For the sake of the child, marry
her and try your hardest to make it work. Many Farang/Thai
relationships fail because of lack of communication, learn some Thai
and get your fiance to improve her English.
Should the child not be yours give her a small lump sum, say 10000 baht
and disappear out of her life.
Sandy
rinpoche
incredibly "riap roy" university girls staying in my condo block in
Chiangmai and believe me, they are nothing like what they seem on the
outside.
The biggest misconception is not that true love can be found in the
bar. The biggest misconception is that only bar girls are capable of
cheating. "Educated" Thai women make very convincing, elegant and
sophisticated cheaters.
rinpoche
visited Thailand. I was a soldier boy then and I wasn't interested in
bars either. But that did not shelter me from a lot of ugly things
happening in army camps, schools, hospitals etc. You have no idea how
sophisticated the cheating can get. In comparison, the problems that
Farangs have with bar girls are kindergarten misadventures.
Alex Gitlits
> What makes you think you're so special?
I never said I was.
I was only 19 when I first
> visited Thailand. I was a soldier boy then and I wasn't interested in
> bars either. But that did not shelter me from a lot of ugly things
> happening in army camps, schools, hospitals etc. You have no idea how
> sophisticated the cheating can get. In comparison, the problems that
> Farangs have with bar girls are kindergarten misadventures.
Oh, I have a pretty good idea. Woman being Thai or non-Thai has very
little to do with her likelyhood of cheating either.
Alex
verifiable_truth
"rinpoche" <webm...@knapsack.net> wrote in message
news:1118456799....@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> You obviously don't know what "typical" is. There are lots of
> incredibly "riap roy" university girls staying in my condo block in
> Chiangmai and believe me, they are nothing like what they seem on the
> outside.
>
> The biggest misconception is not that true love can be found in the
> bar. The biggest misconception is that only bar girls are capable of
> cheating. "Educated" Thai women make very convincing, elegant and
> sophisticated cheaters.
>
In contrary, I believe Khun Geoff B knows exactly what he said.
There are cheaters everywhere. Thai, Caucasion, or educated Chinese girls.
"Typical", in this case, simply means smaller percentage of them are
boumtje
none wrote:
> i was in bed with one girl i met last month (not a sex worker) i had
> been gobbling her cock & balls all night
*fixed*
Daniel
"boumtje" <bou...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1118467831....@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
Mmmhhh, well fixed
Now I understand many of "none" posts in a much clearer way
Thanks boumtje :-)
Deckard
<3218321...@fjsfhdskfhs.com> wrote:
>
>I hope someone can give me a sensible and realistic answer on this, without
>any preconception that my fiancee is ripping me off. We do have a very,
>very good relationship. We talk every day and spend a week together every
>one to two months.
>
>Thanks!
>
Of course, you have to be careful but don't listen to the usual pack
of Thai-bashers, bookish expert, 1-year-in-Bangkok veteran, paranoid
dopehead, etc.
Like Geoff said, your figures look correct.
And I think you are also right to want to live in Western Europe with
young children. I don't elaborate since it was not your question.
Last advice: you should better look at Web discussion groups like the
Thai Falang board on http://forums.delphiforums.com
Best wishes for both of you,
Mort
none
none
the dirty on their blokes>>>
10% innocent ,and 20% undetermined !
DO YOU FEEL LUCKY ?
Daniel
Now guess, my anglo saxon friends....
"none" <opl...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1118506416....@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Deckard
tried ti write in broken French in message
news:4294bc83...@news.free.fr...
Well, well, well, out sex-tourist from Pattaya still dont understand that
there is no such thing as a "free.fr".
Did your brains got infected too of Aid's and other sexual diseases.
Tell us, how many times a year you spend for your sex-trips to Pattaya?
And all this while your Tai-Chinese lady is looking?
Bwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah,
Yeap, you surely know something about Thailand (or shall we say Pattaya?).
Dickhead,
If it wasn't for others like the USA, French would still be eating with
their hands.
The Germans took France over in 1945 without one shot.
Maybe you could posts some truth in SCT for a change, and tell us all how
France needed to get an army of foreigners becase the French were to coward
to hold a gun.
Or the good old joke known by everyone in SCT: "For sale from French owner,
one gun, never been fired, dropped once".
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/vstsng/detail?.dir=/7c2e&.dnm=f687.jpg&.src=ph
| Morticia the French coward
verifiable_truth
news:J5SdnWeDHvZ...@comcast.com...
Verifiable Bastard,
You have been proven to be the one and only KHEE NOK of SCT.
You couldn't proove your words or show up with 100,000 baht.
Cheap talk about sex fantasies and empty pockets?
We are not at all interested in your sexual dreams at SCT.
Get proper help for that.
Put your money where your mouth is and shut up.
In the meantime, you could change your tune and tell us the story how your
ancestors loosed their limbs and died while defending the local zoo.
KHEE NOK,
Daniel
Yes, I feel lucky, I don't belong to Stickshit nor to noneshit world.
Another planet
Laonork
but who am I to judge. Anyways, I don't like Stickman from what I have
read, but let's not insult all the PeDe's by saying that Stickman is
one of them. 55555
Somchai
Mr Lore
"rinpoche" <webm...@knapsack.net> wrote in message
news:1118456799....@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
bar and are some of the most devious treacherous thieves going! Watch out
for them!
A copper in thailand once said "Thai lady I do not trust!"
rinpoche
girl is as honest, conservative and demure as the image she tries very
hard to project. My point is, these girls are more an exception rather
than the norm. At the university hostels here in Singapore, there is
plenty of casual sex going on behind closed doors too. The big
difference is, people here are more open and honest about it.
Promiscuous girls go around in bra tops and denim shorts. This dress
code is definitely not typical in Thailand, but promiscuity and casual
sex (outside the sex trade) are even more widespread than over here.
In any typical ampher office, conferences will be held every couple of
months. Everyone wants a chance to organise these conferences and
submit an inflated bill from the hotel. In any typical hospital,
doctors, nurses and patients have a sophisticated system to cheat the
insurance companies. Almost every single tour guide I know has multiple
boyfriends or girlfriends and some of them are ex-teachers with parents
who are school principals or professionals. Walk into a typical clinic
and you can be certified for almost anything without even seeing the
doctor. What is the typical police officer like? What about the typical
immigration officer? The typical waitress? The typical bank clerk or
post office worker? How do they perform their duties and how do they
handle their relationships?
I'm not saying that these things are unique to Thailand. What needs to
be noted, is that the Thais are so good at giving a good impression
that many people like Geoff and yourself are misled by the simplistic
belief that everything inside the bar scene is typically "dirty" and
everything outside is typically "clean".
rinpoche
yourself from the 30+, 40+ and associating their age with their
intentions and inclinations.
Nationality is not the issue here. The real issues are socio-political
norms, values and upbringing which differ widely between nations. Do
you think the Thais would view "cheating" in the same light that
Farangs or even other Asians would view it?
verifiable_truth
>I think you got it wrong. Geoff seems to think that the typical Thai
> girl is as honest, conservative and demure as the image she tries very
> hard to project. My point is, these girls are more an exception rather
> than the norm. At the university hostels here in Singapore, there is
> plenty of casual sex going on behind closed doors too. The big
> difference is, people here are more open and honest about it.
> Promiscuous girls go around in bra tops and denim shorts. This dress
> code is definitely not typical in Thailand, but promiscuity and casual
> sex (outside the sex trade) are even more widespread than over here.
>
Khun rinpoche, what I really meant in my previous post is that "typical"
Thai ladies are not out right going after farangs to misled or cheat the
mysery out of them. Far from it, because of the "projected" image as you
described, I doubt if any typical Thai lady would want to be seen publictly
with a farang late in the evening (say at a shopping mall, restaurant, or
bar).
There are cheaters in every society -- inside or outside the sex trade zone.
But it is far more easier (much higher percentage) to end up with those
cheaters in the sex trade arena.
> In any typical ampher office, conferences will be held every couple of
> months. Everyone wants a chance to organise these conferences and
> submit an inflated bill from the hotel. In any typical hospital,
> doctors, nurses and patients have a sophisticated system to cheat the
> insurance companies. Almost every single tour guide I know has multiple
> boyfriends or girlfriends and some of them are ex-teachers with parents
> who are school principals or professionals. Walk into a typical clinic
> and you can be certified for almost anything without even seeing the
> doctor. What is the typical police officer like? What about the typical
> immigration officer? The typical waitress? The typical bank clerk or
> post office worker? How do they perform their duties and how do they
> handle their relationships?
>
If you are talking about the way of city life there in general. I could not
be more agree with you. The economic situation almost as well as the
society lends itself for many people to conduct themselves that way.
However, I do think you may have over amplified the down side just a little.
There are also a number of good and decent people out there who are honest
and trying their best to cope with the situation. Do you think people in
BKK are less trustworthy compared to those in Shanghai or Hong Kong? I
think not.
> I'm not saying that these things are unique to Thailand. What needs to
> be noted, is that the Thais are so good at giving a good impression
> that many people like Geoff and yourself are misled by the simplistic
> belief that everything inside the bar scene is typically "dirty" and
> everything outside is typically "clean".
>
No, I am not at misled by the simplistic belief that everything outside the
bar is typically "clean". It is a grey line that is hard to distinguish
even for a Thai. But statistically speaking, I still think things from
inside the bar scene are typically (higher percentage) more "dirty" than the
outside.
Daniel
"verifiable_truth" <verifiab...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:zK6dnXr3QrZ...@comcast.com...
>
> "rinpoche" <webm...@knapsack.net> wrote in message
> news:1118540592.4...@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> Thai ladies are not out right going after farangs to misled or cheat the
> mysery out of them. Far from it, because of the "projected" image as you
> described, I doubt if any typical Thai lady would want to be seen
publictly
> with a farang late in the evening (say at a shopping mall, restaurant, or
> bar).
Correct. We have the problem with a young French guy married to a young Thai
lady.
We go out together quite often, 3 couples, all men French, all women Thai.
For 2 of us, the ladies don't look "young" so they feel relax. But for this
younger friend, the wife is always on guard, scared to be seen as a sex
worker by the other guests of the restaurant.
I also remember a tough event in Hua Hin: Going back quite late to our
hotel, the guard on duty started to talk to my wife and she exploded and
almost agressed him. Then, I understood: He wasn't there whwen we checked
in, taught she was a prostitue and wanted to get her ID card. Good the
Manager on duty came quickly to apologise and pacify everybody, the physical
fighting mood was there....but this poor guard was only doing his job.
> There are cheaters in every society -- inside or outside the sex trade
zone.
> But it is far more easier (much higher percentage) to end up with those
> cheaters in the sex trade arena.
==================
Absolutely, and this applies to all the countries in the world.
verifiable_truth
> Well, it's quite obvious to me that you were trying to distinguish
> yourself from the 30+, 40+ and associating their age with their
> intentions and inclinations.
>
> Nationality is not the issue here. The real issues are socio-political
> norms, values and upbringing which differ widely between nations.
I totally disagree with you on the issue of Nationality. Generally
speaking, Thai people are not racist, and you are right, the real issues are
socio-political norms. However, that by itself makes the issue of
nationality a big thing.
Honestly, IF you have a sister or daughter, would you like her to be seen
going out with a Farang in the evening (say at a mall, a restaurant or some
public place)? You know too well how people (Thais or farangs) would think
of her. I am sorry to say this, but most people would probably think of her
not much beyond of being a whore after farang money. And with the majority
of farangs coming to Thailand for sex vacation (e.g., PatPong, NaNa or
Pataya go-go bars), who are to blame for such thoughts? That is too bad!
Tchiowa
Alex, you're fighting a losing battle. Go back and read Rinpoche's
posts from the past. He has hated Thai people (along with Jews and
Malays) for quite some time. Hints dropped in previous notes are that
he got burned in some kind of electronics smuggling operation he was
involved in and he got burned by a Thai girlfriend. He also has made it
clear that people of Chinese descent (like himself) are far superior to
other people.
> Alex
Alex Gitlits
> Well, it's quite obvious to me that you were trying to distinguish
> yourself from the 30+, 40+ and associating their age with their
> intentions and inclinations.
Well, I am not unique. I am not the only one young who doesn't visit
bars regularly. Some in my age do, however, as Daniel rightly pointed
out. But an average bar goer would be in his 40+.
>
> Nationality is not the issue here. The real issues are socio-political
> norms, values and upbringing which differ widely between nations. Do
> you think the Thais would view "cheating" in the same light that
> Farangs or even other Asians would view it?
They may well view it in a different light, I'm sure, but I'm certain be
it Singapore, Thailand, HK or the US, you can always find women (or men)
who cheat at various degrees on sohistication scale. Speaking of
sophistication, believe me, Chinese women (or men) are by far well known
leaders of the game, doing it with highest degree of sohpistication, in
which ever light they may see it, be it money or relationships.
Alex
>
>
verifiable_truth
"Tchiowa" <tchi...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1118556699....@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Bullshit! Khun rinpoche is one of the most respectable posters in this ng.
His general knowledge of Thai is far greater than many farangs living in
Thailand. From time to time, he might over emphasizes on some issues. But,
as far as I know, they all contain some truth.
What he described about the Chinese in Thailand is mostly true. The Chinese
are hard working people who earned their ways (and know how to zigzag the
system) to success. Sure, Chinese people in Thailand can, sometimes, be
boring to associate with since they target success 1st and fun 2nd. But in
no way, I feel his posts contain any hostility toward Thais or any other
nationalities.
>> Alex
>
Alex Gitlits
>
>
> Alex, you're fighting a losing battle.
It certainly starting to look that way.
Go back and read Rinpoche's
> posts from the past. He has hated Thai people (along with Jews and
> Malays) for quite some time.
Well, I am a jew and my wife is Thai. I guess I'd be an untimate object
of hate for him.
He also has made it
> clear that people of Chinese descent (like himself) are far superior to
> other people.
Well, him making such conclusions about Thai people (outright
unjustified). I made certain conclusions about Chinese people, and
although I probably should haven't, I believe similar conclusions about
Chinese people can be drawn with a greater degree of certainty. He
should look in his own backyard. I can give him a plentitude of
examples, if he so wishes. I won't generalise though like he does with
Thai people. I thought his wife (gf) was Thai?
Alex
>
>
>>Alex
>
>
Alex Gitlits
> "Tchiowa" <tchi...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1118556699....@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
>>
>>Alex Gitlits wrote:
>>
>>>rinpoche wrote:
>>>
>>>>What makes you think you're so special?
>>>
>>>
>>>I never said I was.
>>>
>>>
>>>I was only 19 when I first
>>>
>>>>visited Thailand. I was a soldier boy then and I wasn't interested in
>>>>bars either. But that did not shelter me from a lot of ugly things
>>>>happening in army camps, schools, hospitals etc. You have no idea how
>>>>sophisticated the cheating can get. In comparison, the problems that
>>>>Farangs have with bar girls are kindergarten misadventures.
>>>
>>>
>>>Oh, I have a pretty good idea. Woman being Thai or non-Thai has very
>>>little to do with her likelyhood of cheating either.
>>
>>Alex, you're fighting a losing battle. Go back and read Rinpoche's
>>posts from the past. He has hated Thai people (along with Jews and
>>Malays) for quite some time. Hints dropped in previous notes are that
>>he got burned in some kind of electronics smuggling operation he was
>>involved in and he got burned by a Thai girlfriend. He also has made it
>>clear that people of Chinese descent (like himself) are far superior to
>>other people.
>>
>
> What he described about the Chinese in Thailand is mostly true. The Chinese
> are hard working people who earned their ways (and know how to zigzag the
> system) to success.
Some earned because of being hard working, no doubt, some because they
cheated their way through! Just like any nationality.
Sure, Chinese people in Thailand can, sometimes, be
> boring to associate with since they target success 1st and fun 2nd.
Many are also at the top of the corruption and cheating game. He should
look in his own backyard. There are cheating Chinese, Thais, American,
French, Jews, and Russians. They may all see it in different light, due
to their upbringing. What is Rinpoche trying to say? He seems to
concentrate on Thais. Why? It reminds me of being in Russia. When
something goes wrong, Jews are at fault! When something wrong in
Thailand and Chinese businesses in Thailand lose money, it's the Thais'
fault, of course. That's how it is in Rinpoche's world. It is funny,
Thais see Chinese living in Thailand as Thais, where is Chinese see
themselves as superiour, just like Rinpoche does.
Alex
verifiable_truth
"Alex Gitlits" <agit...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:42abd6c5$0$13946$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
Alex,
Most Chinese in Thailand are TaeChew (80-90%). And believe me, cheating
among Chinese (TaeChew) women is rare. About Chinese (TaeChew) men, the
word cheating is not quite suitable with them. They mostly like to visit
prositutes -- but at the end of the day (or may be the next morning), they
will go back to their spouses.
>
> Alex
>
>
>>
verifiable_truth
I am a 100% Thai. And the comments made by khun rinpoche (although he may
have over emphasized the down side a little) about Thai people does not
offense me since it contains certain degrees of truth in the context of the
discussion. I learned quite a bit from this ng of how other nationality
think of my people and my country. And I sure appreciate your contribution.
> Alex
>
>
>>
>>
>>>Alex
>>
Alex Gitlits
>
>
> Alex,
>
> Most Chinese in Thailand are TaeChew (80-90%). And believe me, cheating
> among Chinese (TaeChew) women is rare.
Oh, really? What about all those hi-so students from well known
universities, which shall remain nameless? Do you remember a couple or
may be a bit more years ago a famous VCD that circulated at Pantip
featuring a hi-so student and a well known university figure? There are
plenty of examples, Chinese or Thai.
The point I am trying to make is that saying that Chinese women do it
less than Thai or vice versa is totally foundless. Again, reasonons and
suffistication degrees can be different, but cheating nevertheless. You
can find compromised morals in any nationality.
Chinese women do it less than Thai - please don't make me laugh.
Alex
Alex Gitlits
Well, then. I hope comments I made about Chinese don't affend khun
Rinpoche either, as they do also contain certain degree of truth!
Alex
Tchiowa
verifiable_truth wrote:
> "Tchiowa" <tchi...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1118556699....@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> >
> >
> > Alex Gitlits wrote:
> >> rinpoche wrote:
> >> > What makes you think you're so special?
> >>
> >>
> >> I never said I was.
> >>
> >>
> >> I was only 19 when I first
> >> > visited Thailand. I was a soldier boy then and I wasn't interested in
> >> > bars either. But that did not shelter me from a lot of ugly things
> >> > happening in army camps, schools, hospitals etc. You have no idea how
> >> > sophisticated the cheating can get. In comparison, the problems that
> >> > Farangs have with bar girls are kindergarten misadventures.
> >>
> >>
> >> Oh, I have a pretty good idea. Woman being Thai or non-Thai has very
> >> little to do with her likelyhood of cheating either.
> >
> > Alex, you're fighting a losing battle. Go back and read Rinpoche's
> > posts from the past. He has hated Thai people (along with Jews and
> > Malays) for quite some time. Hints dropped in previous notes are that
> > he got burned in some kind of electronics smuggling operation he was
> > involved in and he got burned by a Thai girlfriend. He also has made it
> > clear that people of Chinese descent (like himself) are far superior to
> > other people.
> >
>
> Bullshit! Khun rinpoche is one of the most respectable posters in this ng.
So you think that making statements like "don't do business with Jews
unless you get a deposit first" and "Malays are all lazy" is
"respectable"? (Quotes are as close as I remember them.) I have a
different definition of respectable.
> His general knowledge of Thai is far greater than many farangs living in
> Thailand. From time to time, he might over emphasizes on some issues. But,
> as far as I know, they all contain some truth.
Most bigotted stereotypes *do* contain "some truth". And a whole lot of
bigotry to go along with it.
> What he described about the Chinese in Thailand is mostly true. The Chinese
> are hard working people who earned their ways (and know how to zigzag the
> system) to success.
Chinese are no more nor less hard working than any other people. To
categorize people and attribute characteristics by race or ethnicity
this way is lazy thinking at best, and racism at worst.
> Sure, Chinese people in Thailand can, sometimes, be
> boring to associate with since they target success 1st and fun 2nd. But in
> no way, I feel his posts contain any hostility toward Thais or any other
> nationalities.
You should go back and read some of his posts over the years. His
hatred of Thai is tangible.
Tchiowa
Alex Gitlits wrote:
> >
> >
> > Alex, you're fighting a losing battle.
>
> It certainly starting to look that way.
>
>
> > Go back and read Rinpoche's
> > posts from the past. He has hated Thai people (along with Jews and
> > Malays) for quite some time.
>
> Well, I am a jew and my wife is Thai. I guess I'd be an untimate object
> of hate for him.
Thai and Jewish? Damn I hate to ask this but I just can't help myself.
If you have kids, how did the nose turn out? :-)
> > He also has made it
> > clear that people of Chinese descent (like himself) are far superior to
> > other people.
>
> Well, him making such conclusions about Thai people (outright
> unjustified). I made certain conclusions about Chinese people, and
> although I probably should haven't, I believe similar conclusions about
> Chinese people can be drawn with a greater degree of certainty. He
> should look in his own backyard. I can give him a plentitude of
> examples, if he so wishes. I won't generalise though like he does with
> Thai people. I thought his wife (gf) was Thai?
I thought that was over, but I could be wrong.
I've lived and worked in a dozen countries and been to a few dozen
more. I think that we agree that making these kinds of generalizations
simply doesn't work. There are good people and bad people, in roughly
the same proportions, in every society, culture and country. The
stereotypes that he and others promote harm the people they are
stereotyping, the people they are explaining it to, and most of all
themselves.
To use my favorite source of philosophy (rock lyrics), as the poet
said: "If you can tell a wise man by the color of his skin then mister
you're a better man than I".
Alex Gitlits
>
>
> Thai and Jewish? Damn I hate to ask this but I just can't help myself.
> If you have kids, how did the nose turn out? :-)
Good timing. My wife and I were just having this conversation an hour or
so ago. We tried to figure out whether our son's nose is Thai or Jewish.
We'll get back to you. Too early to tell, I think.
>
>
I think that we agree that making these kinds of generalizations
> simply doesn't work. There are good people and bad people, in roughly
> the same proportions, in every society, culture and country. The
> stereotypes that he and others promote harm the people they are
> stereotyping, the people they are explaining it to, and most of all
> themselves.
Agreed.
Alex
LarbGai
tchi...@hotmail.com says...
I have a different definition of respectable.
******Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm You mean like going to GoGo Bars and getting YOUR name on
the wall for the most barfines in one day eh Titchy?????
Now that is respectable in your world eh mate?
;-)
Daniel
> > Thai and Jewish? Damn I hate to ask this but I just can't help myself.
> > If you have kids, how did the nose turn out? :-)
>
> Good timing. My wife and I were just having this conversation an hour or
> so ago. We tried to figure out whether our son's nose is Thai or Jewish.
> We'll get back to you. Too early to tell, I think.
A Thai nose, I can figure it out just by looking at my wife and her
relatives:
Something flat that looks like a 2-pin electrical plug :-)
But a Jewish nose?
Are you talking about the cliche advertised by the Nazi propaganda?
I strongly believe that being Jewish doesn't have any ethnical or racial
undermeaning anymore.
It probably had this ethnical content at the Biblical period, but few
thousands years of intermixing and disaporas diluted it.
There are Caucasians Jewish, Slavs Jewish, Black Jewish (Ethyopia) and,
maybe, few Semitic Jewish, to name a few.
I got that feeling first from the Jews I know, then by reading a bit to
cross check.
And, as far as I could understand here, it seems that there are also few
Aussies Jewish....
How is an average Aussie nose :-)
Cheers
Daniel
Alex Gitlits
Hey Daniel, A Jewish nose is a jewish nose :-) and I can spot one pretty
easily... Hmmm.... Aussie Jews... not so sure, I am more Russian jew
turned Aussie :-)
Alex
>
>
Alex Gitlits
and it came up with plenty of info. So the term is still alive and
kicking these days.
Alex
Daniel
Google is a very good source to obtain plenty of cliche not based on any
scientific or historical ground.
Just try "French Army Victories" :-)
By the way, I googled it also, most of the links are in fact agreeing with
me!
"Fair enough. But where did the stereotype of the hook-nosed Jew come from
then? The culprit seems to be bad science." just to quote one...
You are a Slav Jew as you are from Russian origin.
So, you may have a Russian nose and a Jewish faith.
I got this friendly argument already with some Jewish people proud to be
Jewish.
OK, no problem, be proud, but not of your "race"!
Being Jewish is a religious, cultural, historical and social fact.
Like being Christian or Muslim or Indhuist or Buddhist or whatever.
It's a fact that the history made out of the Jewish people a community with
stronger internal links than many other, but that can be easily explained.
Cheers
Daniel
Easy Street
> And, as far as I could understand here, it seems that there are also few
> Aussies Jewish....
> How is an average Aussie nose :-)
> Cheers
> Daniel
Say Hey !!
The average Aussie nose is that of a Tasmanian Devil !!
5555 Yee-Haw !!
Alex Gitlits
> "Alex Gitlits" <agit...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:42ac0c20$0$14820$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
>
>>Daniel, I just typed, out of pure curiosity, 'jewish nose' into google
>>and it came up with plenty of info. So the term is still alive and
>>kicking these days.
>>
>>Alex
>
>
> Google is a very good source to obtain plenty of cliche not based on any
> scientific or historical ground.
> Just try "French Army Victories" :-)
Lol!
> By the way, I googled it also, most of the links are in fact agreeing with
> me!
> "Fair enough. But where did the stereotype of the hook-nosed Jew come from
> then? The culprit seems to be bad science." just to quote one...
> You are a Slav Jew as you are from Russian origin.
> So, you may have a Russian nose and a Jewish faith.
>
> I got this friendly argument already with some Jewish people proud to be
> Jewish.
> OK, no problem, be proud, but not of your "race"!
> Being Jewish is a religious, cultural, historical and social fact.
> Like being Christian or Muslim or Indhuist or Buddhist or whatever.
> It's a fact that the history made out of the Jewish people a community with
> stronger internal links than many other, but that can be easily explained.
> Cheers
> Daniel
Well, I don't think there is anything to be much proud of being a jew
compared to any other ethnisity. I'm not a religious Jew anyway.
Alex
>
>
>
Easy Street
Say Hey you men with broken noses,
come and join with brother Moses,
fight, fight, fight for Palestine !!
5555 Yee-Haw !!
Daniel
> Daniel wrote:
>
> > "Alex Gitlits" <agit...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:42ac0c20$0$14820$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
>
> compared to any other ethnisity.
Compare to other social, cultural, historical, religious groups, not to
other ethnicity!
Sorry to look a bit stubborn in that argument, but I am an anti-Nazi amateur
historian.
The Nazis racial theories about the Jews were based on NO scientifical
grounds.
They got a little army of "scientists" trying to establish the
characterisitcs of the Jew "race", measuring noses and other stuff. All pure
bullshit.
Subscribe to soc.culture.israel and ask the question there. I have done it
sometime ago and got all what I needed to convince myself. There is no Jew
race. Jews nowadays are of miscellaneous ethnical origin. What links them
together is detailed, a bit, below.
I'm not a religious Jew anyway.
=============================
You belong to a social group that originated from a religion, the Jewish
one.
Wether you are yourself a religious man or not is not very important.
A bit like me, my original social group is the French catholics. It's a
fact, I can't deny it even if I am not a religious catholic myself.
It has plenty of other meanings, especially for the Jews. The community
links are very strong simply because from pogroms to gas chambers, that
particular community has been abused and murdered for centuries in Europe,
enough to built a kind of resiliency.
I dislike the way Israel is managing its Palestinian problem but we have to
be fair and understand that it took them centuries to be able to eventually
protect themselves properly. Centuries with millions of murdered Jews. This
is from where Tsahal is coming from, mountains of ashes and bones, one
cannot expect them to be nice chaps.
Russian origin, Alex? So, your ancestors were among the first abused or
murdered Jews, remember that the word pogrom is a Russian one. We had also
our share in France during Middle Age.
Be religious or not, as you wish, no comment from my end.
But be proud, you survivor ;-)
Cheers
Daniel
Alex Gitlits
Daniel,
Thanks for the discussion
> You belong to a social group that originated from a religion, the Jewish
> one.
> Wether you are yourself a religious man or not is not very important.
> A bit like me, my original social group is the French catholics. It's a
> fact, I can't deny it even if I am not a religious catholic myself.
> It has plenty of other meanings, especially for the Jews. The community
> links are very strong simply because from pogroms to gas chambers, that
> particular community has been abused and murdered for centuries in Europe,
> enough to built a kind of resiliency.
> I dislike the way Israel is managing its Palestinian problem
Agree with you here.
but we have to
> be fair and understand that it took them centuries to be able to eventually
> protect themselves properly. Centuries with millions of murdered Jews. This
> is from where Tsahal is coming from, mountains of ashes and bones, one
> cannot expect them to be nice chaps.
> Russian origin, Alex? So, your ancestors were among the first abused or
> murdered Jews,
Sure are!!
remember that the word pogrom is a Russian one.
Yep, it is Russian. I came to Australia when I was 18 so I can
understand Russian well.
We had also
> our share in France during Middle Age.
According to my boss, who also happens to be a jew and who is in France
(Gaillon) as we speak, and travels there frequently. France is still a
very anti-semitic country - something I find hard to comprehend.
> Be religious or not, as you wish, no comment from my end.
> But be proud, you survivor ;-)\
Cheers
Alex
> Cheers
> Daniel
>
>
>
Daniel
>
> Daniel,
>
> Thanks for the discussion
>
> > our share in France during Middle Age.
>
> According to my boss, who also happens to be a jew and who is in France
> (Gaillon) as we speak, and travels there frequently. France is still a
> very anti-semitic country - something I find hard to comprehend.
France has quite a dark past (And present) about racism. Many origins.
1 - HISTORY:
French people are not of a clear ethnical origin, a big mix in fact:
Gallic and Celtic originally
Then Roman invasion
Then Germanic tribes invasions (Francs, Wisigoths, Ostrogoths, Huns)
Then Arabic invasions, mainly in the South.
Then Viking invasion in the North (Normandy)
Eventually end of invasion, but start up of immigrations:
Scots and Irish, fleeing the English annexions of their countries.
Spaniards and Portugueses fleeing the Arab invasion of their countries
Italians (Renaissance)
Then came the industrial revolution and the arrival of immigrant workers:
Polish
Spaniards, Portuguese and Italians again
Yougoslavs
Russians, mainly "white russians" fleeing the Bolchevik revolution in 1918.
Then came the political refugees from our former colonies:
Vietnamese, Lao, Cambodians
Morocans, Algerians, Tunisians
Blacks from Central Africa.
Blacks from Caribean Islands.
Then came the massive immigration waves from North Africa and Africa.
That one, we couldn't swallow it till date.
Each and any wave of immigrant/invader generated a bit or a lot of racism,
at least originally
2 - RELIGION:
During the Middle Age, the Catholics were not authorised by the Church to
make money out of money, i.e. to get interest on loans. So, no way to be a
Catholic Banker. Jews didn't had the same religious limitation, so they were
the bankers.
Read a bit of French history before the Revolution, ALL the wars our Kings
won were ALL financed by the French Jews with no exception. So, just guess
what a King would do if he cannot reimburse the Jew banker? Eh, eh, so easy,
he is even not a catholic.... Get the populace burn few Jews houses, then
"renegotiate" the loan term. No wonder why Jew businessmen are so tough!
Thet learned it the very very tough way 1,000 years ago!
3 - WW2:
The government of Vichy, lead by the treators Petain and Laval, bow to the
Nazis wishes without them even asking and implemented anti-Jews laws,
restricting their employments, their rights, etc, rather similar to the
Nazis laws.
They accepted to dleiver to the Nazis the non-French Jews residing inFrance,
many of them being German refugees
Eventually, they also betrayed the French Jew, arrested them with the help
of the French police, and let them be sent to the Nazis
Konzentrationlagers. Few came back.
We even had a special state secretary for the "Jews questions", Louis
Darquier de Pellepoix, who managed to escape to Spain at the end of the war.
The Fascist Franco granted him asylum sparing him a well deserved firing
squad sentence.
4 - TODAY:
We still have in France nostalgics of the Petain time. They are not only
represented by few groups of skinheads, but by a well established extreme
tight political party, the Front National, led by Jean Marie Le Pen. They
are not "officially" anti-Jew, but several former French Waffen SS were
among the founding members of this Party. Moto: France and French before.
Read: Fuck off the non-white skin of all sort (Sorry).
We have in France a big big problem with the waves of Mulsim immigrants, who
refused to be "integrated", keep 100% of their original system and way of
life and, consequently don't go well with the French. The huge problem the
world have today with the Islamic terrorism increased this type of racism.
We also have a problem with the fact that a big chunk of the drug traffic is
managed by the black africans.
When you pile up all above, the conclusion is sad, but it is there: France
has, nowadays, all the necessary ingredients to be a racist country.
Oh, don't be too much alarmed, a lot of French, the majority in fact, are
not *really* racists, only fed-up a bit of few abuses. The Jews are
definitely not the main target of the racist expression in France, this main
target is Arab muslims. But Jews are in the list of those extremists and,
from time to time, we can hear of a Jew cemetery being de-sacralised and
covered with spray paint svatiskas or a Jew restaurant or shop being
agressed.
Some French, like me, are ashamed of it and try to be vigilant.
But the risk is still there.
The beast still can have fecondity.
It wasn't burned in the ruins of Berlin in May 1945.
Beware.
Cheers.
Daniel
Tchiowa
Daniel wrote:
> "Alex Gitlits" <agit...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:42ac1e32$0$11692$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
> >
> > Daniel,
> >
> > Thanks for the discussion
> >
> > We had also
> > > our share in France during Middle Age.
> >
> > According to my boss, who also happens to be a jew and who is in France
> > (Gaillon) as we speak, and travels there frequently. France is still a
> > very anti-semitic country - something I find hard to comprehend.
> ===================================
> France has quite a dark past (And present) about racism. Many origins.
>
> 1 - HISTORY:
<snipped>
You gotta love USENET. This thread was about maintaing the cost of a
Thai Fiancee. Hell of a shift, don't you think? :-)
orang37
verifiable_truth
news:J5SdnWeDHvZ...@comcast.com...
Verifiable Bastard,
You have been proven to be the one and only KHEE NOK of SCT.
You couldn't proove your words or show up with 100,000 baht.
Cheap talk about sex fantasies and empty pockets?
We are not at all interested in your sexual dreams at SCT.
Get proper help for that.
Put your money where your mouth is and shut up.
In the meantime, you could change your tune and tell us the story how your
ancestors loosed their limbs and died while defending the local zoo.
KHEE NOK,
verifiable_truth
verifiable_truth
verifiable_truth
verifiable_truth
verifiable_truth
verifiable_truth
chabon_a_...@yahoo.com
Question 2: I have been dating this woman for over two years. In the
past we had some problems with her old boyfriend still hanging around
in the background. Could you please give me some advice as to the
signs that another man is in the picture. Example suddenly closing the
phone while you're calling and having it off the entire night.
Mr. Stick says: I think I am better qualified to answer this question
than the Mrs. Any action which seems that it is "less than plausible"
is cause for concern and anything where things don't seem right is
worth looking into a bit more. Thais do not turn their mobile phones
off. They leave them on in cinemas and they live them on when they go
to sleep. The only time they turn them off is seemingly when they wish
to avoid calls from one of their girlfriends or boyfriends. Quite
simply, being hung up on and being unable to reach your loved one on
the phone is a major red flag. I assume you are outside of Thailand
and she is in the Kingdom.
Incidentally, let me add this. One of the issues with guys who want to
hook up with a Thai woman is distance. You can send them as much money
as you want, but Thai women just don't like being alone - it really is
a foreign concept to them. This is a BIG reason many farang / Thai
relationships go bad. You need to either move to Thailand or move her
to the West QUICKLY!
n_cram...@pacbell.net
> [ . . . ]
> Some French, like me, are ashamed of it and try to be vigilant.
> But the risk is still there.
> The beast still can have fecondity.
> It wasn't burned in the ruins of Berlin in May 1945.
> Beware.
>
Those who do not learn from the mistakes of the past will repeat them.
That's why it's so important that young people are taught the whole, often
ugly, truth. Japan is not the only country where textbooks are dishonest,
we have much of the same here in the USA. I admire you, mon ami!
"My country, right or wrong. Where right, to be kept right. Where wrong, to
be made right!"
--
Nick. To support severely wounded and disabled War on Terror Veterans and
their families go to: http://saluteheroes.org/
Thank a Veteran and Support Our Troops. You are not forgotten. Thanks ! ! !
verifiable_truth
news:1118602706.0...@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> Question 2: I have been dating this woman for over two years. In the
> past we had some problems with her old boyfriend still hanging around
> in the background. Could you please give me some advice as to the
> signs that another man is in the picture. Example suddenly closing the
> phone while you're calling and having it off the entire night.
>
Ask CarLost. He seems to be able to cope with the situation quite well.
He even suggested for his wife to fool around with the local officials here
in Khorat so that he may gain some leverage with them.
n_cram...@pacbell.net
> "verifiable_truth" <verifiab...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > "rinpoche" <webm...@knapsack.net> wrote in message
> >
> > Khun rinpoche, what I really meant in my previous post is that
> > "typical" Thai ladies are not out right going after farangs to misled
> > or cheat the mysery out of them. Far from it, because of the
> > "projected" image as you described, I doubt if any typical Thai lady
> > would want to be seen
> publictly
> > with a farang late in the evening (say at a shopping mall, restaurant,
> > or bar).
> =================================
> Correct. We have the problem with a young French guy married to a young
> Thai lady.
> We go out together quite often, 3 couples, all men French, all women
> Thai. For 2 of us, the ladies don't look "young" so they feel relax. But
> for this younger friend, the wife is always on guard, scared to be seen
> as a sex worker by the other guests of the restaurant.
> I also remember a tough event in Hua Hin: Going back quite late to our
> hotel, the guard on duty started to talk to my wife and she exploded and
> almost agressed him. Then, I understood: He wasn't there whwen we checked
> in, taught she was a prostitue and wanted to get her ID card. Good the
> Manager on duty came quickly to apologise and pacify everybody, the
> physical fighting mood was there....but this poor guard was only doing
> his job.
>
My wife is 57 and pretty mellow. When I hear someone refer to her as a 'Mia
farang', I come unglued. She sits me down and has a little Dhamma talk with
me. Now, some people in the Canyon refer to our house as the 'farang
house'. Kinda funny (although it pisses me off), since my wife, her mother,
her nurse and the two farmworkers are all Thai!
verifiable_truth
Lacau
> Lacau is one of those low life frequenting the bars.
> Alex
>
Hey, let's get this right please ... I'm a tee-totalling no-barfining son-
of-a-low-life with a Thai GF of 18 months. And this serial whore-chaser has
had only one other Thai girlfriend before that, and that was for some 3
years. Boy am I a bad man or what ;-)
The bar I usually go to isn't one for sex, drugs and rock'n'roll. Sure it
has 3 girls who sometimes barfine (something I haven't). Its when my freee
internet hook-up is, the place where the other ex-pat business guys meet up
to play pool and discuss stuff: Most of the Chiang Mai bars are not same
same Bangkok or Pattaya. Sure, there are bars here where you can play all
night long with the ladies (be that first or second order) but that isn't
where you'll find me. I live in a Thai community. When a local girl got
sick, it was these same "low-life" guys who put thier hands very deep in
their pockets to make sure she got the best doctors and treatment.
And I read Thai. Low-life? Last night, I was talking to two attorneys who
stopped by for a beer or three. Damn it ... you're right, we're low-lifes
:-D
Getting serious again, it is astonishing the number of guys (old, fat and
balding) who come out here, meet a girl (20 yo and swai mak mak) in
hotel/bar/shop/street and after 2 weeks think they are in love and want to
take them home to falangland. I was just as guilty first trip out. But I
read up and thought long and hard. Then I moved here and work for a multi-
national, legally.
I also VSO teach, both English (qualified TEFL) and computer programming
(degree). I am very much into the giving back school of thought.
And I also dislike 90% of the foreign males who come into the bars - men
behaving very badly. The Americans have got this down to an artform,
especially those with a miltary background - they seem unable to do
anything but treat the girls like shit - to them they are nothing more than
mere sex objects.
To me, many have become good friends. The fact some do or have worked as
prostitutes (lets fact it, many are), doesn't exclude them from my list of
freinds or possible future wife/s: I have a very good understanding of this
place and why they work in the entertainment industry. Maybe that makes me
a better person - I don't discriminate or hold the moral high ground ...
people are people and none of us are perfect.
Lacau - Low-life, Can I have that on my tombstone ... I kind of like it.
PS: why are the Americans always so damn noisey.
PPS: I'm not old, fat and balding. I have hair, and still fit in the pants
I had when I was 20 ... 2 out of 3 ain't bad!
Lacau
Okay, so where did he meet her? My comments come from the fact that most
falangs met thai girls in a very limited number of places simply becuase
they only go to a limited number of places.
>You are a typical farang kee nok who frequents bars and forms his
opinion of Thai women from what he sees in a bar.
I form my opinions from living and working in a Thai community. I have
spent a lot of time both in the North east and west, travelling alone in
areas where most folk simply would and never will go. My comments don't
just come from the bars. Conversely, if you have never been to a bar,
what you have to say lacks credibility because you are talking about
something you are not qualified. If you have been to the bars then you
are a hypocrite. Sorry Alex, you lose-lose there.
> You socialise with hookers and you are of the same level.
Your commente that anyone who is a friend to a bar girl is a low life
identifies you as a bigot, period. I have always regarded people as
people. There are good bars girls there are bad bar girls, same same as
good vicars and ones messing with kids.
And judging by your language and tone, you're probably American, aka home
of double standards, The one I really like is the american guy who makes
lots of money professionally writing about how he hates the Thai bar
scene ... yet without the bar scene he wouldn't have a job. And without
writing about the best places for cheap sex, there would be fewer
American sex tourists. Do I detect a double standard here?
Alex Gitlits
>
> Some French, like me, are ashamed of it and try to be vigilant.
> But the risk is still there.
> The beast still can have fecondity.
> It wasn't burned in the ruins of Berlin in May 1945.
> Beware.
>
> Cheers.
> Daniel
Danilel,
Thanks for the interesting read.
Cheers
Alex
Alex Gitlits
>>===================================
>>France has quite a dark past (And present) about racism. Many origins.
>>
>>1 - HISTORY:
>
>
> <snipped>
>
> You gotta love USENET. This thread was about maintaing the cost of a
> Thai Fiancee. Hell of a shift, don't you think? :-)
>
Yes, indeed. It may has gone completely OT, but it beats reading a lot
of other useless stuff posted here these days.
Alex
Alex Gitlits
>
> Lacau - Low-life, Can I have that on my tombstone ... I kind of like it.
Lacau-my appologies. I obviously misjudged your character here. Although
I must say the way you came out assuming the OP had a bar girl on his
hands is, to me, appauling.
>
> PS: why are the Americans always so damn noisey.
I am not an American.
Alex
Alex Gitlits
>>Why do you assume that Shaun's fiance is of the same social standing?
>
>
> Okay, so where did he meet her? My comments come from the fact that most
> falangs met thai girls in a very limited number of places simply becuase
> they only go to a limited number of places.
>
>
> I form my opinions from living and working in a Thai community. I have
> spent a lot of time both in the North east and west, travelling alone in
> areas where most folk simply would and never will go. My comments don't
> just come from the bars. Conversely, if you have never been to a bar,
> what you have to say lacks credibility because you are talking about
> something you are not qualified. If you have been to the bars then you
> are a hypocrite. Sorry Alex, you lose-lose there.
Again, sorry for misjudging your character. I am not a hypocrite as I
really never been to a bar, but I do know some farang living in
farangland, they are married to ex-bg - a really sorry exhibition - all
of them, without a single exception. That's just my experience.
>
>
>>You socialise with hookers and you are of the same level.
>
>
> Your commente that anyone who is a friend to a bar girl is a low life
> identifies you as a bigot, period. I have always regarded people as
> people. There are good bars girls there are bad bar girls, same same as
> good vicars and ones messing with kids.
Sorry, Lacau, but the ones I've seen associating with bar girls, in
Australia (where I live) are people I and my wife find very
uncomfortable to associate with, and we are not snobs in any way. These
people are just unpleasant in the broadest meaning of this word. Our
experience, again. May be your community of bar going farangs is
different to that of mine.
>
> And judging by your language and tone, you're probably American, aka home
> of double standards, The one I really like is the american guy who makes
> lots of money professionally writing about how he hates the Thai bar
> scene ... yet without the bar scene he wouldn't have a job. And without
> writing about the best places for cheap sex, there would be fewer
> American sex tourists. Do I detect a double standard here?
I am not American. I've been living in Australia for 11 yrs. Before that
I lived in Russia (where I was born). Thought you'd pick that from my
poor English :-)
Alex
n_cram...@pacbell.net
> [ . . . ]
> I am not American. I've been living in Australia for 11 yrs. Before that
> I lived in Russia (where I was born). Thought you'd pick that from my
> poor English :-)
>
Lacau
>
>>
>> Lacau - Low-life, Can I have that on my tombstone ... I kind of like
>> it.
>
> Lacau-my appologies. I obviously misjudged your character here.
> Although I must say the way you came out assuming the OP had a bar
> girl on his hands is, to me, appauling.
>
Actually, I'm sure I did ...: Whatever, whether she is or not, he should
consider the situation very carefully. When I was faced with the same
situation, I realised that I had no strong family ties, my (then)
girlfriend most certainly did. For that reason, it was better for me to
find a way of legally living out here. I now have a non-Immigrant B and
work permit. Others have written that when the girls are out of the
country, telephone bills for calls back home have been very high.
Incidentally, I ended the relationship over the weekend with the girl
who's planning to shaft the German guy for a house. At the end of the
day, reason hasn't prevailed. And to be honest, someone who is capable
of planning such a scam could just as easily be doing the same on me.
Not conducive to a good nights sleep.
Fortunately, I have a very good girl and friend whom I have known for a
long time - non-bar, someone who was a former student of mine. We had a
very good talk yesterday and we'll take things slowly and see what
happens. I hope we can work it out - just a fabulous personality and
with brains too (BA degree no less).
>>
>> PS: why are the Americans always so damn noisey.
>
> I am not an American.
Thank goodness for that .. I don't have to commiserate with you ;-)
Alex Gitlits
> Alex Gitlits <agit...@gmail.com> wrote in
> news:42ad2be5$0$17509$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au:
>
>
>>>Lacau - Low-life, Can I have that on my tombstone ... I kind of like
>>>it.
>>
>>Lacau-my appologies. I obviously misjudged your character here.
>>Although I must say the way you came out assuming the OP had a bar
>>girl on his hands is, to me, appauling.
>>
>
>
>
>
> Fortunately, I have a very good girl and friend whom I have known for a
> long time - non-bar, someone who was a former student of mine. We had a
> very good talk yesterday and we'll take things slowly and see what
> happens. I hope we can work it out - just a fabulous personality and
> with brains too (BA degree no less).
My best wishes with this.
Alex
boumtje
> Sorry, Lacau, but the ones I've seen associating with bar girls, in
> Australia (where I live) are people I and my wife find very
> uncomfortable to associate with, and we are not snobs in any way. These
> people are just unpleasant in the broadest meaning of this word. Our
> experience, again. May be your community of bar going farangs is
> different to that of mine.
i know the type of people you're referring to, but i have to say that
either you haven't associated with many former bar girls and their
farang partners or you are indeed a snob
there are plenty of good-hearted former bar girls...they are people,
after all...and there are many nice guys who genuinely fall in love
with these girls...it may not always work out, but to call all guys who
fall for bar girls "low-lifes" is unfair and untrue
mr.tim
Alex Gitlits
> i know the type of people you're referring to, but i have to say that
> either you haven't associated with many former bar girls and their
> farang partners or you are indeed a snob
>
> there are plenty of good-hearted former bar girls...they are people,
> after all...and there are many nice guys who genuinely fall in love
> with these girls...it may not always work out, but to call all guys who
> fall for bar girls "low-lifes" is unfair and untrue
>
> mr.tim
Mr Tim,
Firstly, I didn't call all guys who fall for bar girls 'low-lifes'. The
guys I do call 'low-lifes' are those who frequent the bars and feed off
the bar scene, i.e. total desperados. Those who picked a bar girl for a
wife and moved away from the scene do not necesseraly belong to such group.
Unfortunately, *those we met SO FAR* are those we prefer to stay away
from. A lot of couples are not interesting to communicate with (to me
anyway) at best and many of them are plain trouble. These, again, are
only my experiences, which may be seen as limited for your perspective.
Alex
orang37
I find it interesting to observe that while male farangs are held up to ridicule
or shame for being with a "former bar-girl;" and it is widely believed that once
a "bar-girl" always a "bar-girl," that none of these farangs refer to the farang
partner of the "former bar girl" as a "whoremonger," "degenerate prostitute
patron," "slut," etc. The insult seems to be by indirection.
It's fine to fantasize about the characters of hookers as if manipulating
cardboard cut-outs, but no so fine to hold a male accountable to equal standards
?
Is there something about a man who has a liason with a bar-girl (or many such)
where that aspect of his character doesn't "stick." Of course very few farangs
have the opportunity to be professional gigolos for Thai women so we are limited
in our ability to explore the reciprocal side of the equation.
I vote for the compassionate view that we are all people, and that some people,
usually in dire economic straits, under strong pressure from cultural norms in
which the unmarried daughters are expected to take care of mom, dad, and
everyone else, work in bars. Isn't interesting that so much of the revulsion
about sexuality in Christianity comes from a totured soul named St. Augustine
who was a compulsive bi-sexual tormented by his own lapses of what he perceived
to be the necessity of absolute celibacy ?
~o:37; < former whoremonger who is utterly shameless about it, but feels fine
that it's no longer an option >
Alex Gitlits
> I vote for the compassionate view that we are all people, and that some people,
> usually in dire economic straits, under strong pressure from cultural norms in
> which the unmarried daughters are expected to take care of mom, dad, and
> everyone else, work in bars.
I don't, not in this case. There are always other means, always. And how
many of them do it out of complete necessity, not an awful lot, I guess.
Alex