Christian bible supports slavery
tripur...@yahoo.com
9 Exhort servants to be obedient unto their own masters, and to please
them well in all things; not answering again;
10 Not purloining, but shewing all good fidelity; that they may adorn
the doctrine of God our Saviour in all things.
Bholu
What did I tell you about throwing stones. Never start wars you cannot
finish? What if someone came to you with these quotes from Manusmriti
- the laws that our ancestor Manu (hence the word Man):
I - 91. One occupation only the lord prescribed to the shudra to serve
meekly even these other three castes.
I - 93. As the Brahmana sprang from (Prajapati's i.e. God's ) mouth,
as he was first-born, and as he possesses the veda, he is by right the
lord of this whole creation.
II - 31. Let (the first part of ) a brahmin's (denote) something
auspicious, a kshatriya's name be connected with power and a vaishya's
with wealth, but a Shudra's (express something) contemptible.
II-32. (The second part of) a brahmin's (name) shall be (a word)
implying happiness, of a kshatriya's (word) implying protection, of a
Vaishya's (a term) expressive of thriving, and of a shudra's (an
expression) denoting service.
II - 100. Whatever exists in the world is the property of the
Brahmana; on account of the excellence of his origin the Brahmana is
indeed, entitled to it all.
Regarding the study of Vedas by shudras:
IV - 99. He (the twice born) must never read (the vedas) ----- in the
presence of the shudras.
VIII - 37. When a learned Brahmin has found treasure, deposited in
former (times), he may take even the whole (of it); for he is the
master of everything.
VIII - 270. A shudra who insults a twice born man with gross
invective, shall have his tongue cut out; for he is of low origin.
VIII - 271. If he mentions names and castes of the (twice born) with
contumely, an iron nail, ten fingers, shall be thrust red hot into his
mouth.
VIII - 410. King should order each man of the mercantile class to
practice trade, or money lending or agriculture and attendance on
cattle; and each man of the servile class to act in the service of the
twice born.
About the status of women:
IX - 3 . Her father protects (her) in childhood, her husband protects
(her) in youth and her sons protect (her) in old age; a woman is never
fit for independence.
IX - 18. Women have no business with the text of the veda.
IX - 189. The property of a Brahmana must never be taken by the king,
that is a settled rule; but (the property of men) of other castes the
king may take on failure of all (heirs).
IX - 317. A Brahmin, whether learned or ignorant, is a powerful
divinity.
X - 121. If a shudra (unable to subsist by serving brahmanas) seeks a
livelihood, he may serve kshatriyas, or he may also seek to maintain
himself by attending on a wealthy viashya.
X - 122. But let a shudra serve brahmans, either for the sake of
heaven or with a view to both this life and the text, for he who is
called the servant of a Brahmana thereby gains all his ends.
X - 123. The service of the Brahmana alone is declared to be an
excellent occupation for a shudra; for whatever else besides this he
may perform will bear no fruit.
Dealing with the question of wages to the shudras:
X - 124. They must allot to him (shudra) out of their own family
property a suitable maintenance, after considering his ability, his
industry and the number of those whom he is bound to support.
X - 125. The remnants of their food must be given to him, as well as
their old clothes, the refuge of their grain and their old household
furniture.
X - 129. No collection of wealth must be made by a shudra even though
he be able to do it; for a shudra who has acquired wealth gives pain
to Brahmana.
XI - 6. One should give, according to one's ability, wealth to
Brahmanas learned in the veda and living alone; (thus) one obtains
after death heavenly bliss.
XI - 261-62. A Brahmana who has killed even the peoples of the three
worlds, is completely freed from all sins on reciting three times the
Rig, Yajur or Sama- Veda with the Upanishad.
XII. 4. If the shudra intentionally listens for committing to memory
the veda, then his ears should be filled with (molten) lead and lac;
if he utters the veda, then his tongue should be cut off; if he has
mastered the veda his body should be cut to pieces.
tripur...@yahoo.com
> On Feb 23, 5:41 pm, tripurant...@yahoo.com wrote:
> What did I tell you about throwing stones. Never start wars you cannot
> finish? What if someone came to you with these quotes from Manusmriti
> - the laws that our ancestor Manu (hence the word Man):
Namasthe Bholuji! I am convinced you are wrong here! You are cutting
and pasting from anti-Hindu sites without checking. Such websites are
common and mislead Hindus. Most of them are supported by Christians
and muslims. They are edited to mislead. Please see below.
> I - 93. As the Brahmana sprang from (Prajapati's i.e. God's ) mouth,
> as he was first-born, and as he possesses the veda, he is by right the
> lord of this whole creation.
First let us be clear Manu does not say varnas are by birth alone.
Never
>
> Regarding the study of Vedas by shudras:
Sudras by definition do not follow ahimsa dn the discipline. Hence
they do not study vedas. If any one follows the discipline, they can
study. Like university admission. Only those who pay fees, apply can
be in class. Those who dot apply, follow rules cannot. Simple
>
> IV - 99. He (the twice born) must never read (the vedas) ----- in the
> presence of the shudras.
Vedas require a discipline to study. Those not initiated should not
try. Sudras can study Mahabharatha, Gita,puranas and almost anything
except vedas. Vedas are only for those willing to commit to a
discipline
What about this:
MS 7.129 Let him punish first by gentle admonition, afterwards by
harsh reproof, thirdly by a fine, after that by corporal chastisement
The king is supposed to physically punish only after other means are
exhausted
> About the status of women:
>
> IX - 3 . Her father protects (her) in childhood, her husband protects
> (her) in youth and her sons protect (her) in old age; a woman is never
> fit for independence.
>
> IX - 18. Women have no business with the text of the veda.
>
> IX - 189. The property of a Brahmana must never be taken by the king,
> that is a settled rule; but (the property o
What about these?:
3.55. Women must be honoured and adorned by their fathers, brothers,
husbands, and brothers-in-law, who desire their own welfare.
3.56. Where women are honoured, there the gods are pleased; but where
they are not honoured, no sacred rite yields rewards.
3.57. Where the female relations live in grief, the family soon wholly
perishes; but that family where they are not unhappy ever prospers.
3.58. The houses on which female relations, not being duly honoured,
pronounce a curse, perish completely, as if destroyed by magic.
3.59. Hence men who seek (their own) welfare, should always honour
women on holidays and festivals with (gifts of) ornaments, clothes,
and best of food.
3.60. In that family, where the husband is pleased with his wife and
the wife with her husband, happiness will assuredly be lasting
> XI - 261-62. A Brahmana who has killed even the peoples of the three
> worlds, is completely freed from all sins on reciting three times the
> Rig, Yajur or Sama- Veda with the Upanishad.
The actual verses are:
11.261. A Brahmana who retains in his memory the Rig-veda is not
stained by guilt, though he may have
destroyed these three worlds, though he may eat the food of anybody.
11.262. He who, with a concentrated mind, thrice recites the
Riksamhita, or (that of the) Yagur-veda; or (that of
the) Sama-veda together with the secret (texts, the Upanishads), is
completely freed from all sins.
> XII. 4. If the shudra intentionally listens for committing to memory
> the veda, then his ears should be filled with (molten) lead and lac;
> if he utters the veda, then his tongue should be cut off; if he has
> mastered the veda his body should be cut to pieces.
The actual verse is:
12.4. Know that the mind is the instigator here below, even to that
(action) which is connected with the body,
(and) which is of three kinds, has three locations, and falls under
ten heads.
Where is lead etc?!
Please note that Manu does not say varnas are by birth alone. In fact
he condemns that. He wants even brahmans to learn and says if he does
not he is condemned.
Varnas are by choice. Sudras can learn vedas if they are disciplined.
Women can learn vedas:
Women were initiated into the thread ceremony in the vedic era.
Brahmacharya discipline and period of study were essential for both
sexes [Atharwa Veda 11.5.18a, Satpatha Brahmana.1.2.14.13, Tait
Brahamana II.3.3.2-3] Women cannot be equated to shudras for shudras
cannot give rise to Brahmins
A sudra can become a brahmana 10-65
Please respond
M. Ranjit Mathews
> 9 Exhort servants to be obedient unto their own masters, and to please
> them well in all things; not answering again;
Then, when missionaries report back about lower and upper castes in
India, why do they never report that they exhorted lower castes to be
obedient to upper castes, to please them well in all things, ec.
tripur...@yahoo.com
wrote:
> On Feb 23, 5:41 pm, tripurant...@yahoo.com wrote:
>
> > Titus 2:
> > 9 Exhort servants to be obedient unto their own masters, and to please
> > them well in all things; not answering again;
>
> Then, when missionaries report back about lower and upper castes in
> India, why do they never report that they exhorted lower castes to be
> obedient to upper castes, to please them well in all things, ec.
>
Because they are Hindus and it would be good to encourage hostility so
they can convert. But if they are low caste Christians and sc/st
Christians, then they tell them to shut up and open different churches
for untouchable Christians, in keeping with the bible
karthika
favoring CASTE system every where. many Kings followed it in the past
and consolidated the caste bias in India.
But the non-Brahmans who came to India as GYPSIES from eastern Europe
now claim, they are Brahmans. That is the biggest fraud in North
India. These GYPSIES now bark at the ORIGINAL Indians and Hindus.
Gujjus, Panjabis, Kashmiris, and many tribes in North India are GYPSY
origins but they bark that they are BRAHMANS. Distortion of History is
the worse degradation of Hindu Religion.
Can you explain the name NEHRU whether it is a HINDU or Sanskrit? But
I found it is a POLISH name.
PATHAK(I) is a HUNGARIAN name. How did these guys became BRAHMANS?
KASHMIR(i) is a POLISH word for woolen carpet or other product. How
can these SHEEP BREEDERS of Poland became Brahmans in India?
Manu Smriti was written by such a SHEEP BREEDER or other GYPSY and not
by any real Indian HINDU.
kuri...@gmail.com
wrote:
>
> - Show quoted text -
To which do you belong? To an upper caste or to a lower caste! The
whole world knows about the caste system of India and how the system
systematically downgraded, denigrated, broke the will of certain
sections (lower castes) of the society to subhuman level. Somehow you
are implying that the upper castes are masters, and lower castes
equivalent to slaves. There were two kinds slaves that Paul's
writings refer to. One is economic slaves where people sold
themselves as slaves for a period of time and the others are those who
were conquered. In the first case a slave could redeem himself by
paying his debt to the master, and thus become a free person. In the
second case the slaves remained slaves until the conquerors decided to
free the vanquished. The question here is only how should the
masters and the slaves behave? Are the masters entitled to mistreat
the slaves whom he own, or the slaves have a right to rebel against
their masters by refusing to perform their assigned duties? How do
compare this situation with the employer-employee relationship of the
modern times?
harmony
"karthika" <mud...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:abbecf35-3563-4881...@e10g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
karthika
>
> - Show quoted text -
GYPSIES are not ARYAN or DRAVIDIAN but in India, specially in North
India, these GYPSIES bark that they are ARYANS but HITLER killed
millions of these GYPSIES during the WW 2.
Try to identify the real Indian Hindu tribes who never preached any
bias against any one. That is why GYPSIES or other religions were
easily able to find a foot-hold in India.
Later times uncultured gypsies created many non-Hindu ideas and
claimed they were HINDU. The WIFE BURNING is unheard in S/India which
was a HINDU kingdom of PALLAVAS who were KSHATRIAS/BRAHMANS. North
Indian Gypsies brought many East European tradions with them. WIFE
BURNING is one of them. Later al the Christian churches involved in
BURNING women and INQUISITION.
Theory of KINGSHIP,KINGDOM and many other stuffs were the product of
GANGES VALLEY civilization of India. It never talk about slavary but
talk about class. Warrior, Merchant or farmer etc but they never
treated any LOW or HIGH games until these GYPSIES started to mix with
Indian population.
harmony
"karthika" <mud...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:a1fe7fa8-7898-4b85...@o10g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
kuri...@gmail.com
>
> - Show quoted text -
Now it is gypsy bashing! My understanding is that the ancestors of
the present-day gypsies migrated out of India and spread to all of
Europe and not the other way around. Their language Romani seems to
have some similarity to the languages of Northwestern India. If one
is keen on learning the truth there is enough scientifically
researched materials available. If you really want to learn about
inquisition (Spanish and Roman) authoritative information is
available. I wonder whether you read anything substantial on the
subject. In your opinion the gypsies are uncivilized, wannabe Hindus,
but have some compassion for the centuries of suffering and
humiliation they went through.
tripur...@yahoo.com
If the bible is the eternal word of God, then is slave trade
( economic) permissible, selling and buying? Also does the bible
sanction political slavery? Mind you I am asking about slavery, not
POWs
kuri...@gmail.com
>
> - Show quoted text -
What are you trying to get at? Was slavery or slave trade ever
acceptable in the sight of God?
Were adultery and fornication sanctioned and approved of God? These
are also mentioned in the Bible (both Christian and the Hebrew)and in
the Hindu scriptures. Do they become the will of God? God does not
approve of His children exploiting each other. The bonded servant
system that existed in India for centuries and that still exists in
various forms is nothing but economic slavery. Egalitarianism and
universal brotherhood are the core tenets of Christian faith and both
are an anathema to Hindu way of looking at the world.
karthika
>
> - Show quoted text -
Romani is not the language all GYPSIES. ROMANI is not spoken anywhere
in India in the past or presence. Then how can these GYPSIES spread
out of India?Gypsies not spread from India but the CHRISTIAN WHITES
bark and create a theory that GYPSIES are from India because they are
not following CHRISTIAN faith.
Furhter GYPSIES are EUROPEANS and they were the first people travelled
from EUROPE to India and other places by LAND for a long time until
the MUSLIMS captured the land routes.
But GYPSIES became HINDUS in the North India and settled and started
to follow HINDU religion partially with their GYPSY traditions.
Many of the forces of Alexander settled in Afghanistan, Iran, and
Pakistan. King Ashoka's mother was a GREEK. Now the Western historians
are keen to destroy the INDIAN connection every where. The Americans
call the NATIVES as Indians because the EUROPEANS wanted to come to
India and endedup in Americas but they do not tell a word in their
American History Books about India.
So, who will trust the WHITE man's History books on murders under
inquisition of Catholic Church and the orders of POPES who asked
Portugeuse and Spanish to kill the males and rape the women in the
invaded territories.
GOA witnesses thousands of murders by Catholic Church under
inquisitions. Now the a NAZI is the head of the Catholic Church. This
German NAZI Retzinger cries that HINDUISM and BUDHISM are COMMUNISM.
karthika
>
> - Show quoted text -
hahahahaha.. Brotherhood? Christians are asked to treat other
Christians as Brothers. Muslims do the same. But both religions ask to
kill non-Christians and non-muslims. So, dont try to fool around.
Further Americans sanctioned slavery according to BIBLE. Dont you know
it?
M. Ranjit Mathews
It's acceptable in the sight of slavers' God because when slavers
design a God for themselves, they design a God who approves of slavery
and slave trading.
kuri...@gmail.com
>
> read more »- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
My information is quite different and I don't give any credence to
what you say. Having gone through some of your biased viewpoints I
will be doing a disservice to myself by engaging you in a dialogue on
this subject.
kuri...@gmail.com
>
> - Show quoted text -
Laugh as hard as you want. People throughout history used various
scriptures to justify heinous crimes, murders, ethnic cleansing,
gender and race discriminations. Your quibble is not against the
misdeeds and crimes but against the Bibles of the Christians and Jews
and against the Quran of the Muslims. You say all the misdeeds had
their origin in the respective respective books these people use. You
forget that even the devil can and does use religious scriptures to
serve his purpose. You laugh because you cannot conceive universal
brotherhood desirable or attainable. It may not be attained in its
finality, but there is no harm in aiming towards it.
kuri...@gmail.com
who engage in wrong deeds (wrong in the generally accepted terms)
justify their actions? It is always easy for them and ease the
conscious of those who hear that they are told "the scripture told
them" or "God explicitly commanded" them to do what they did.
>
> > Were adultery and fornication sanctioned and approved of God? These
> > are also mentioned in the Bible (both Christian and the Hebrew)and in
> > the Hindu scriptures. Do they become the will of God? God does not
> > approve of His children exploiting each other. The bonded servant
> > system that existed in India for centuries and that still exists in
> > various forms is nothing but economic slavery. Egalitarianism and
> > universal brotherhood are the core tenets of Christian faith and both
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
M. Ranjit Mathews
I didn't. You did.
> Don't common criminals and those
> who engage in wrong deeds (wrong in the generally accepted terms)
> justify their actions?
Why only "common" criminals. "Uncommon" criminals (criminals who wrote
scriptures) justified wrong deeds too.
> It is always easy for them and ease the
> conscious of those who hear that they are told "the scripture told
> them" or "God explicitly commanded" them to do what they did.
It's easy only if they have a scripture with a God who explicitly
commanded such things. Not all scriptures have a God who explicitly
commands murder, rape, etc. Can you list a few scriptures where God
commands these?
karthika
>
> - Show quoted text -
Muslims and Christians have no universal brotherhood or any damn
thing. If that is the case, why do all of the Christian churches try
to CONVERT Hindus?
These religions are the OLD political parties and nothing else. Quran
cries to kill non-muslims and the Christians do the same. All the
crimes in the past happened against HINDUS according to Bible and
Quran. POPE who is a NAZI criminal tells the Sri Lankan TAMIL TIGER
CRIMINALS are the DIVINE SOLDIERS OF CHRIST because Tamil Tigers kill
HINDUS and BUDDHISTS. Tamil Tiger organization is run by Catholic
Church.
Current POPE who is a German NAZI barked that HINDUISM and BUDDHISM
are COMMUNISM. Catholics and other Christians never opened their mouth
against this NAZI CRIMINAL POPE. VATICAN is worse than Al-Quida and
secretly order the murders of HINDU leaders. Rajiv Gandhi was the
famous Victim of the CATHOLIC monkeys.
Sonia who is a low class Italian and refused to become Indian citizen
until Rajiv Gandhi was murdered. Later olny she became a citizen. She
is the agent of NAZI POPE.
If you guys claim you are CHRISTIANS, no salvation for you because you
converts are all SLAVES in front of WHITES.
M. Ranjit Mathews
> On Feb 28, 10:01 am, kurian...@gmail.com wrote:
> > Laugh as hard as you want. People throughout history used various
> > scriptures to justify heinous crimes, murders, ethnic cleansing,
> > gender and race discriminations. Your quibble is not against the
> > misdeeds and crimes but against the Bibles of the Christians and Jews
> > and against the Quran of the Muslims. You say all the misdeeds had
> > their origin in the respective respective books these people use. You
> > forget that even the devil can and does use religious scriptures to
> > serve his purpose. You laugh because you cannot conceive universal
> > brotherhood desirable or attainable. It may not be attained in its
> > finality, but there is no harm in aiming towards it.- Hide quoted text -
>
> Muslims and Christians have no universal brotherhood or any damn
> thing. If that is the case,
It is not the case. It Christians thought that all people were
brothers, we would see some Christians asking other Christians to form
a brotherhood with Satan worshippers, homosexuals, etc.
karthika
You think that you are doing a SERVICE to your CHURCH which follow
criminal technology. Further your knowledge is very much shallow to
grasp the facts of your so called bible. So, better keep silent when
others talk about truth.
tripur...@yahoo.com
wrote:
Many verses speak of what *the right hand possesses*. This idiom
refers to captured women, in war. Koran allows rape of non-muslim
women. See for yourself
Ever wonder why there is so much rape of nonmuslims by muslims in
Australia, Denmark etc? Those who do not wear hijabs are also
considered public property!
Is this from God?
I wonder if you still think this is the word of God. See:
023.006
YUSUFALI: Except with those joined to them in the marriage bond, or
(the captives) whom their right hands possess,- for (in their case)
they are free from blame,
PICKTHAL: Save from their wives or the (slaves) that their right hands
possess, for then they are not blameworthy,
SHAKIR: Except before their mates or those whom their right hands
possess, for they surely are not blameable,
033.050
YUSUFALI: O Prophet! We have made lawful to thee thy wives to whom
thou hast paid their dowers; and those whom thy right hand possesses
out of the prisoners of war whom Allah has assigned to thee; and
daughters of thy paternal uncles and aunts, and daughters of thy
maternal uncles and aunts, who migrated (from Makka) with thee; and
any believing woman who dedicates her soul to the Prophet if the
Prophet wishes to wed her;- this only for thee, and not for the
Believers (at large); We know what We have appointed for them as to
their wives and the captives whom their right hands possess;- in order
that there should be no difficulty for thee. And Allah is Oft-
Forgiving, Most Merciful.
PICKTHAL: O Prophet! Lo! We have made lawful unto thee thy wives unto
whom thou hast paid their dowries, and those whom thy right hand
possesseth of those whom Allah hath given thee as spoils of war, and
the daughters of thine uncle on the father's side and the daughters of
thine aunts on the father's side, and the daughters of thine uncle on
the mother's side and the daughters of thine aunts on the mother's
side who emigrated with thee, and a believing woman if she give
herself unto the Prophet and the Prophet desire to ask her in marriage
- a privilege for thee only, not for the (rest of) believers - We are
Aware of that which We enjoined upon them concerning their wives and
those whom their right hands possess - that thou mayst be free from
blame, for Allah is ever Forgiving, Merciful.
SHAKIR: O Prophet! surely We have made lawful to you your wives whom
you have given their dowries, and those whom your right hand possesses
out of those whom Allah has given to you as prisoners of war, and the
daughters of your paternal uncles and the daughters of your paternal
aunts, and the daughters of your maternal uncles and the daughters of
your maternal aunts who fled with you; and a believing woman if she
gave herself to the Prophet, if the Prophet desired to marry her--
specially for you, not for the (rest of) believers; We know what We
have ordained for them concerning their wives and those whom their
right hands possess in order that no blame may attach to you; and
Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
Also looting:
016.071
YUSUFALI: Allah has bestowed His gifts of sustenance more freely on
some of you than on others: those more favoured are not going to throw
back their gifts to those whom their right hands possess, so as to be
equal in that respect. Will they then deny the favours of Allah?
PICKTHAL: And Allah hath favoured some of you above others in
provision. Now those who are more favoured will by no means hand over
their provision to those (slaves) whom their right hands possess, so
that they may be equal with them in respect thereof. Is it then the
grace of Allah that they deny?
SHAKIR: And Allah has made some of you excel others in the means of
subsistence, so those who are made to excel do not give away their
sustenance to those whom their right hands possess so that they should
be equal therein; is it then the favor of Allah which they deny?
Now see what Koran says about prostitution- forcing women into
prostitution?
024.033
YUSUFALI: Let those who find not the wherewithal for marriage keep
themselves chaste, until Allah gives them means out of His grace. And
if any of your slaves ask for a deed in writing (to enable them to
earn their freedom for a certain sum), give them such a deed if ye
know any good in them: yea, give them something yourselves out of the
means which Allah has given to you. But force not your maids to
prostitution when they desire chastity, in order that ye may make a
gain in the goods of this life. But if anyone compels them, yet, after
such compulsion, is Allah, Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful (to them),
PICKTHAL: And let those who cannot find a match keep chaste till Allah
give them independence by His grace. And such of your slaves as seek a
writing (of emancipation), write it for them if ye are aware of aught
of good in them, and bestow upon them of the wealth of Allah which He
hath bestowed upon you. Force not your slave-girls to whoredom that ye
may seek enjoyment of the life of the world, if they would preserve
their chastity. And if one force them, then (unto them), after their
compulsion, lo! Allah will be Forgiving, Merciful.
SHAKIR: And let those who do not find the means to marry keep chaste
until Allah makes them free from want out of His grace. And (as for)
those who ask for a writing from among those whom your right hands
possess, give them the writing if you know any good in them, and give
them of the wealth of Allah which He has given you; and do not compel
your slave girls to prostitution, when they desire to keep chaste, in
order to seek the frail good of this world's life; and whoever compels
them, then surely after their compulsion Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
Here allah forgives the men who force women or forgives the women thus
forced? Any way allah does not say, do not do it and condemn it but
talks of forgiveness- to whom?
Does this allah permit raping non-muslim women?
Decide for yourself.
Is this from God?