Who is CHO RAMASWAMY
MAHENDRAN
Usually I dont want to write these kind of stuff. But when somebody asked
I wrote whatever I known about Periyar. Some thought I was anti Periyar
some thought I was pro Periyar. One guy wrote to me that my follow up
postings were slightly pro Periyar. I dont belong to any catagory. Neither
pro nor against anybody.
When ever you identify yourself with some body or some feeling you
will have an uncontrollable urge to write something against someone even
he may be on your side or a neutral guy. We are all friends and I dont
see any reason for us to fight amoung ourselves in the net.
I love politics. So without CHO RAMASWAMY of TUKLAQ we cant talk about politics.
Pl dont flame me as pro or ant CHO. If you want flame CHO not me.
BE OPEN MINDED AND READ THIS ARTICLE
---------------CHO RAMASWAMY--------------
I think he started the magazine around 1975 or so as the first political
sottier magazine in Tamil. Before that he was a comady actor in many MGR
and SHIVAJI movies. When he told that he wanted to start the magazine he
was told my MGR that it would be a fatal decision for his carrier. But
MGR was wrong.
A speciality of his magazine is the cartoon. In the very first issue
cover there were two Donkeys talking the following.
Donkey No1 " Here afterwards We will not have any problem for food."
Donkey No2 " Why?"
Donkey no1 "Because Cho has started a magazine. We will get free meal."
Self humor. He is the only one does that. He was against DMK at the very
begining. His articles were so irritative to the then ruling party DMK and
I think they attacked his office or confiscated the articles he became
very popular after that.
When MGR started his own party/even before that he wrote many articles
against MGR. But he was very close to Kamaray the true national leader
who died as a common man. Perunthalaivar "big Leader" Kamaraj had very high
respect for him and used to praise him in public.
When Indira Gandhi announced Emergency his magazine was sealed. When
Kamaraj parted off from Indira or so he turned dead against Indira. His
opposition to her stayed until she died. But nobody knows how he escaped
prision sentance during Emergency. Unlike Subramaniyam Swamy the person
who is known for staying in Madras for the ouster of Jayalalitha and for
escaping to US to escape prision during Emergency CHO was in Madras at
that time. We know all opposition leaders were put in prision including
M.K. Stalin son of M. Karunanithi and DK leader K.Veeramani.
After Emergency he became more popular than before. During the Janata rule
in 1977 he was on the top. He got very close contact with all central ministers.
It was told that he can go and attend the closed meetings of ministers and
the Prime Minister Morarji Desai at any time. When the Janata rule was on
the verge of collapse he was asked by Morarji for a compromise with the the
then rebel leaders. He also warned Moraji about the plans of Sanjeeva Reddy
to dump the Government.
As you guys know during the elections in 1977 Janata Party lost in TN and
MGR was the king. And when MGR became CM CHO had regular contacts with MGR
during the final days of JANATA rule. He was instrumental in getting MGR's
support for the Janata government. But MGR won MP seats opposing Janata
in the Elections. And also CHO had a role in having MGR allying with Janata
in 1980 Lok Shaba elections in which MGR just won 2 seats out of 39. DMK
which contested as an ally with Cong I won 10+ seats while Cong I got 20+
seats.
Immediately after the election defeat MGR increased reservation
for backward community to 50% from 30% allocated by Karunanithi.
The reason for that was before the elections MGR announced a plan for
economic criteria for backwardness and thought that backfired in the
elections. DK Veeramani also was writing in that regard. CHO was close
to MGR in those period even though he didn't support the increase in
the quoto of reservations.
He supported MGR when MGR's Government was dismissed and when a flow of
defections from ADMK and DMK was on progress. When MGR contested in the
1981 or so elections CHO supported MGR. When MGR lost the Lok Shabha
elections in 1980 there was a cartoon in TUKLAQ I can remember.
In the cover MGR and no 2 Nanjil Manokaran(present DMK deputy seceratory)
Nanjil Manokaran " What we lost the elections. What to do?"
MGR "It is OK. If CHO doesn't support us again there wont be any problem"
In the assembly elections MGR won and CHO went and told him "Our honeymoon
is over. I am going back to my business." During the elections CHO
supported MGR.
Then started the fight which went on until MGR's death. Also that was the
last time CHO met MGR during MGR's life.
CHO used tell that whatever he guesses becomes true and whoever he supportes
used to loose. He was very close to the then CM of KARNATAKA Ramakrishna Hegde.
Another speciality of CHO is he used to have yearly conference in public for
the TUQLAQ and it used to be attened by 30,000/35000 people. There he used
to answer for unexpected questions. His yearly events were attended by the
following prominent figures.
"Chandra Sekar"
"Ramakrishna Hegde"
"Ramjat Malani" etc.
In one such meetings DK men started distributing questions to the audience.
Cho answered to them in public.
Some of the questions.
*"Why are you attacking Zail Singh but not Venkataraman " President and VP
*"Why you did not attack Indira Gandhi for worshiping Kanji Kamakoti Peedam"
I happened to have a chance to meet the guy who prepared these questions.
He was a district leader of DK who was subsequently dismissed for anti
party activities. I just met him in a an exhibition for books. No connection
whatsoever with him.
He joined the JANATA party under Chandra Sekar and is very close to him. He
is also close to L.K. Advani and Subramanyam Swamy. He is against V.P. Singh.
He had Interviews with prominent figures like
Morarji Deasi. Kamaraj
Rajeve Gandhi
Premadasa
L.K. Advani
DK leader Veeramani
May be with M. Karunanithi and Indira Gandhi
He never praised anybody in the public stages like the DMK and ADMK men do.
Ofcourse DK men dont do that. He was attacked as anti tamil by DMK. He was
attacked as pro RSS and BJP. Even CHO himself once told that RSS is known
for dicipline and fight for nationatl interest. He was attacked by the
magazine Tahraju as got 5 star hotel and orders for his company from
Premadeas etc which he denied.
Once he had a big fight with with Idayam Pesukirathu Maniyan. In his magazine
a guy attacked CHO for CHO's attacks against phonography like stuff in
Tamil magazines. Maniyan was defeated and finally they became friends again.
CHO again got national attention when MGR wanted to put him in prision
for insulting the TN assembly. What happened was CHO had a cartoon on the
TQULAK.
I think somebody was dancing with a song which says "For educated people
Arrack shop and for Uneducated people TN ministry post". This issue was
raised as an insult to TN assembly by a women ConI MLA and the great
Sky limit power Speaker Pandian wanted to arrest him. To make a long
story short CHO was supported by the then central Minister P. Chidambaram
and Moopanar. Even Karunanithi supported CHO and he came out of that trouble
w/o any problem.
He supported Indo-Srilankan accord and came close to Cong I in 1988 or so.
Jayalalitha is a child hood friend of CHO. They were close before JAYA joined
politics. She used to write articles in TUQLAQ. But when Jaya was made
probaganda Seceratory CHO opposed it. When S.D.Somasundran the then minister
was having problems with Jaya he issued a cartoon in which only SDS refused
to wear sari while all other minister's were wearing a sari. SDS was susequently
dismissed and now again close to JAYA.
Cho used to write articles in Illustrated Weekly. Once he wrote somthing
against Karunanithi and Karunanithi replied and proved some of CHO's coments
were wrong. He was selected as the a prominent figure by Illustrated Weekly.
Even DK magazines used to praise him as a wise man but not for tamilian cause.
It is incredible for a magazine editor to have such a popularity and confidence
amoung so many leader in so many states. Whether you support him or oppose him
we have to admire his popularity and power he posses which no other journalist
why any other person in India posses.
I have a feeling that he attacks DMK too much and I think it is not fair.
He projects DMK as a pro LTTE pro Seperatist than DMK actualy is. DMK is
not a worse than any other party after all.
I am not reading his magazines now. After Indira and Rajiv's death he lost
his popularity. Now very recently I read 4 issues of his magazine and I felt
his best days are over. It is not very surprising after all politics has
became more dirtier than ever before.
Prabhukumar Ganapathy (PK)
>Dear friends
>Usually I dont want to write these kind of stuff. But when somebody asked
>I wrote whatever I known about Periyar. Some thought I was anti Periyar
>some thought I was pro Periyar. One guy wrote to me that my follow up
>postings were slightly pro Periyar. I dont belong to any catagory. Neither
>pro nor against anybody.
> When ever you identify yourself with some body or some feeling you
>will have an uncontrollable urge to write something against someone even
>he may be on your side or a neutral guy. We are all friends and I dont
>see any reason for us to fight amoung ourselves in the net.
>
>I love politics. So without CHO RAMASWAMY of TUKLAQ we cant talk about politics.
>Pl dont flame me as pro or ant CHO. If you want flame CHO not me.
>
>BE OPEN MINDED AND READ THIS ARTICLE
>
> ---------------CHO RAMASWAMY--------------
>
>I think he started the magazine around 1975 or so as the first political
>sottier magazine in Tamil. Before that he was a comady actor in many MGR
>and SHIVAJI movies. When he told that he wanted to start the magazine he
>was told my MGR that it would be a fatal decision for his carrier. But
>MGR was wrong.
His magazine was started in 1970. THUGLUK is celebrating its
23rd year now.
He had interviews with Mrs.Gandhi and Mr.Karunanidhi.
I have read them. Of course his interviews with
Mr.K.Veeramani of DK and Nanjil Manoharan of DMK
were more poular. His "kalandhuraiyaadal" with
Hindu Munnani's Soorya Narayana Rao and Muslim Leagues'
Abdus Samad was also very good.
Now I want to just mention one of my favourite Q&A in
his magazine. I have read them almost all as we
have a good collection starting from early days of THUGLUK.
This was during 1970's when DMK was busy cleaning KOOVAM
and planning "padagu savari" in it. You can see the
"padagu thurai" named after "kadiyezhu vaLLalgaL" even today.
Q:
"koovam nadhi misai nilavinilE
konju thamizh iLaiNYar koottatthudanE
paavalar thamizhinil paatisaitthu
padagukaL Otti viLaiyaadiduvOm"
vaarigaLaa? (this song was used by
thamizhaga suRRulaa vaariyam at that time)
A:
I will rather write the song like this.
"
koovam nadhi misai naaRRathinilE
kazhaga thamizh iLaiNYar koottatthudanE
madhurai mutthu thamizhinil paatisaitthu
padagukL Otti kavizhdhiduVom
"
In fact I will go ahead and complete the song
(I am writing from my memory so I am not
100% sure about the lines - PK)
VeLLi paNa malaiyin mIdhu viLaiyaaduvOm - pin
adaindhadhu muzhudhum Eppam viduvOm
muthu vasippadhoru then madhuraiyilE
mottha kaNakkinil paadhi angE
katthi kapada sutthi koNarndhu
thamizhar padai sErppadhu
mEyar kaiyilE
vaariyam vaippOm - oru
kaariyam seiyyOm
uNmaigaL solvOrai - pal
vanmurai seyvOm
(sorry I though I could recollect more but my
I coudn't. But it was very nice and apt)
Some more info on CHO & THUGLUK:
Cho started (later stopped) an English magazine
called PICKWICK. Till some time back CHO was
just working for THUGLUK getting a very good
salary. I think now he (or may be some relative)
has bought the magazine.
His Q&A sessions in the annual day celebrations
are not there anymore. He just delivers a speech.
I have attended few of them in the past.
In fact when it was started it was 50% CINEMA
and 50% POLITICS magazine. I have read STUDIO
ROUND-UP in thugluk myself in old issues. In fact
I have seen a black&white photograph of a scene
from "engirindhO vandhaaL" with Sivaji and Jayalalitha
as Dhusyandham & Sakundhalai.
To everyone's surprise he answered that he rates
Kannadhasan as a best poet of this century. He said
I consider Bharathi also as a poet of this century
while saying this.
"onnarai pakka naalEdu" in his magazine was also
very popular. I also feel that now-a-days the
magazine is not that interesting. In fact he
has no SECOND LEVEL in his magazine. In that way
his magzine is also like ADMK.
OK let me stop here.
PK
M.P.Premkumar
DMK members are the single biggest group of subscribers of THUGLAK. Whatever
he says seems to happen. If one looked through his magazine's old issues
most of the things he wrote have become true. His predictions about MGR,
Hegde, Rajiv, NTR, Jayalalitha came true. He supported them at early
stages of their rule but warned things could go worse. And it went.
Sincerely yours,
M.P.Premkumar
R. Sritharan
>In article <17MAR199...@aardvark.ucs.uoknor.edu> mahe...@aardvark.ucs.uoknor.edu (MAHENDRAN) writes:
>
> "onnarai pakka naalEdu" in his magazine was also
> very popular. I also feel that now-a-days the
> magazine is not that interesting. In fact he
> has no SECOND LEVEL in his magazine. In that way
> his magzine is also like ADMK.
>
> OK let me stop here.
>
>
> PK
>
For a period of time in the early eighties, when M. J. Akbar
was the editor of the magazine SUNDAY, the Engish version of
this, "Cho's imaginary diary", was a regular feature in the magazine.
Cho used to be the legal adviser for the TTK Industries and is a good
dramatist.
R. Sritharan
P. S. It is nice to see people write the good side of Cho in
SCT for a change; most of what has appeared before is
rhetoric like "So is a muttal".
Ranjith Ravindiran Suresh
sympathizer. He's a 'uTpakaivAr' as far as real Tamil issues go.
Suresh
C.R.Selvakumar - Electrical Engineering
[ some interesting stuff deleted]
> I have seen a black&white photograph of a scene
> from "engirindhO vandhaaL" with Sivaji and Jayalalitha
> as Dhusyandham & Sakundhalai.
>
> To everyone's surprise he answered that he rates
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> Kannadhasan as a best poet of this century. He said
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> I consider Bharathi also as a poet of this century
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> while saying this.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
This is the problem with many folks. Because
someone is popular in one area ( music, politics..) ,
many quite unwittingly ask his/her opinion on anything
( but worse) many hold these opinions as valuable
assessments. Asking Sivaji whether RamaNa baghavan is
great or Kaanji Periyavar great ? Do yoy think
Betrand Russell is better or Kamaraj better etc.
I agree Cho had written some stories which I had
the misfortune of reading ( brahmanan engE pogirran)
[ please don't flame me ! :) this is my honest opinion;
I liked Cho's political commentary and wit a lot
especially belonging to the of 70s; I liked his
cinemas too; but not his magazine story writing skill
or talent], but he has no demonstrated qualifications
to judge poetry.
So, it does not matter who Cho thinks is the
best poet of the century! Cho may not even know
2% of the good poets in Tamil-speaking lands
who lived in the past century!
Cho has certainly earned a place in Tamil history
quite rightfully. He brought in a new spirit of
tamil journalism.
>
> OK let me stop here.
>
>
> PK
>
anbudan
-Selvaa
Rangaswamy Rajamanickam
Translation : He is totally against the LTTE and the extremist
groups in TN which support the LTTE. So, there you go, he becomes
an 'uTpakaivAr'!
--
RAJAMANICKAM,RANGASWAMY
Georgia Institute of Technology, Atlanta Georgia, 30332
uucp: ...!{decvax,hplabs,ncar,purdue,rutgers}!gatech!prism!gt6060a
Internet: gt6...@prism.gatech.edu
M. Sundaramoorthy
I agree with Selva about Cho Ramaswamy's qualification to comment
about the 'best' poet of this century. However, his status in
Tamil journalism is as rightful as Kannadasan's place in Tamil
poetry. In last few decades Tamil Nadu has elevated mediocres to
very high position in every walk of life and Cho happens to have
won that lottery in journalism. It will take several more years,
for the genunine and non-partisan jounalists to get the attention
of the TN public, thanks again to the mediocre Tamil media. There
is no derth as such now, but they are very little known. Few to
name are: Nagarjunan (original name: Ramesh), who works for UNI
and wrote a serial on Koodankulam Nuclear Power project in Junior
Vikatan, A.S. Pannirselvam, who works for an English weekly and
wrote a serial in JV about IPKF operation after a secrete visit to
North-eastern Sri Lanka (unlike Cho, who stayed in a Colombu
hotel allegedly as a guest of Jayavardhane and rewrote his
his *comments* for nth time about SL Tamil issue), S.V. Rajadurai,
who edited now defunct magazine, 'ini' and writes often in
Economic and Political Weekly and 'parikshaa' Gnani, who edited
the now defunct magazines, 'dheemtharigida', 'alaigaL'. In fact,
Pariksha Gnani exposed a scandal involving Cho's father Srinivasan
(that is something related to central govt agriculture dept. and
then speaker of Parliment Balram Jakkar was the main person in that)
about which Cho never opened his mouth. If these people only
get proper finacial backup to run a magazine as Cho got, they would
make good journalists and political commentators as we see from
other parts of the country. (I wish that day comes soon).
Till then, unfortunately we have bear with stereotype shoutings
of Cho and celebrate him as the best journalist, political
commentator or whatever his fans want to call.
>
>>
>> OK let me stop here.
>>
>>
>> PK
>>
>
>
> anbudan
> -Selvaa
M. Sundaramoorthy
sun...@indigo1.hsis.uci.edu
Srikant Sridevan
And pray, who decides what are the real Tamil issues?
Srikant
Meenan Vishnu
>In article <sfeCWqy00...@andrew.cmu.edu> thund...@CMU.EDU (Ranjith Ravindiran Suresh) writes:
>>Something else about Cho: a distortionist and a RSS
>>sympathizer. He's a 'uTpakaivAr' as far as real Tamil issues go.
>>
>>Suresh
>
>Translation : He is totally against the LTTE and the extremist
>groups in TN which support the LTTE. So, there you go, he becomes
>an 'uTpakaivAr'!
>
>--
>RAJAMANICKAM,RANGASWAMY
Further Translation: Cho is a biased journalist. He does not
hesitate to sacrifice even truth to slander these organization.
The selection of organization that he choses to slander are
all against Brahmanism. That should indicate his biases.
Meenan Vishnu
S. Sankarapandi
Much has been talked about CHO. Let me add my comments.
1. He is very clever in making instant jokes about everything and everybody.
2. He is very skillful in writing political satire about all politicians
though any one can write like him if reads CHO's few satire articles. For
example, in this newsgroup itself two such attempts, one by M.P.S.Prem Kumar
about US presidential elections and another by Meenakshi Srikanth - `Onnarai
pakka naLedu' on SCT.
3. He is bold in expressing his opinions about somebody he does not like
irrespective of how powerful that person is.
4. He will not go for compromises like many other cheap TN journalists like
Manian, saavi etc. i.e, he stands for some principles he believes in. The
principles are highly detrimental to the interests of the majority of the
people. That is, he is a strong supporter of the establishment and go to any
level to protect the establishment. Establishment obviously includes
capitalism, Hinduism, Brahminism (or upper casteism).
A few points to think about him critically:
------------------------------------------
He always praised people like Hegde (only Kannadigas know how moral Hegde
was) like God on the one hand and thrashed some people like Indira Gandhi or
V.P.Singh merely on the basis of his own principles rather than the nature of
that person.
He used to praise Morarji, Advani, Chandrasekar, Hegde etc to show how
clean a politician should be. But he carefully avoids examples like Jyoti Basu
or Nripan Chakravarthi (ex-Tripura CM) just because he does not like communism
(CPM/CPI can hardly be called as communist parties is besides the point).
He carefully avoided exclusive interviews with leftist intellectuals or
leftist political parties.
He is totally one-sided on the issue of the sessionist movements and never
heard them or rejected any interview with them. When such movements accepted
Indian imperialism (or precisely the imperialism of the Indian establishment)
he filled their interviews, articles etc in Thuglaq to project them as great
men. Examples, Longowal, AGP, EPRLF etc.
An honest journalist will go to any spot and write reports on both sides
of any issue and leave the readers to decide whatever they want. BUt CHO used
to write about everything in his office by merely getting the pictures from the
establishment.
I can write about him any amount because I was one of his serious readers for
many years.
I hereby annex my previous SCI posting on CHO.
S. Sankarapandi
_____________________________Repost_________________________________________
Tamil Nadu people have been watching his writings for more than 30 years.
He survives on the fading memory and less seriousness of the middle class.
CHO RAMASAMY IS A MEDIOCRE POLITICAL COMMENTATER OF TAMIL NADU WHO IS MORE
SUITABLE FOR THE MEDIOCRE POLITICIANS LIKE MGR, MK AND JEYALALITHA. Even among
the three he used to have his crudge against MK because of his caste rather
than his corrupt or vandal politics. We cannot even call him as good political
commentator, leave alone a journalist. Good journalists of TN like Panneer
Selvam, Nagarjunan or Gnani had no money power or political influence to become
as popular as CHO. TN also do not have known political commentaters like
Ashok Mitra, Nihil Chakravarthy, O.V.Vijayan, Achin Vanaik etc. Till then
this frog which makes the noise is being consulted by the national media
as a TN journalist. For a long time, I was also under an illusion that he was
honest, because his criticism about the politicians sounded true to me. When
I followed his arguments about general issues like language problem, Srilankan
issue, reservations etc, I could feel his sophisiticated brainwashing (like the
US media). I also had personnel experience in asking him few questions which
he preferred not to answer except cracking some jokes.
Now let me come directly to the TN politics. TN polity has roots from the
pre-1947 days onwards. During the British period, Brahmins were the dominant
force and the non brahmin upper castes like Mudali, Redddy, Pillai etc were
trying to fight them in administration. Their frustration was so bad that they
supported the British and Brahmins were also more loyal to the British (there
were few exceptions on both sides). After the British left India, the power
struggle continued and the non Brahmin upper caste men who were earlier in
Justice party shifted their base towards Dravidian Movements. The latter was
actually started by Periyar for the upliftment of the backward and scheduled
castes.
Though the Dravidian movement has helped some backward castes to come
up, TN politics was paralysed into A fight between two forces. One is the
Brahminism which lost in the vote politics because of its smaller percentage
but they could control the media and manipulate it very efffectively. Its mode
of action has been very sophisticated and indirect such that they never seemed
communal outside, because they needed to have a considerable section of people
to support thier cause in the vote politics. The second force is the non-
Brahmin movement which was very open and its communal politics was known and
blown up considerably by the media. Moreover, since the brahmins were out of
power for a long time, they could easily attribute the overall degeneracy of
politics to the Dravidian movement, though MGR was supported by them till his
death, irrespective of his matching corruption and vandalism (to MK). Another
important developement of this was that the non-Brahmin upper castes who were
once enemies of Brahminism were later devided between these two forces. Some
of them want to bring the olden (according to them, golden days) days and
some support the second force.
Because of the fight between these two kinds of forces, each and every
walk of social life has also been communalised. I know many Congress(I)
party men saying about Brahmin - non-Brahmin rivalry between R.Venkataraman
and G.K.Moopanar, though it sounds funny to me. Coming to the journalists or
media men there were three kinds.
(a) blindly support the politics of Dravidian chavunism, eg. Dinakaran,
kungumum, malai murasu (some editions).
(b) blindly opposing whoever support the Dravidian politics and blindly
praising anybody representing anti-Dravidian views. eg. thina malar, malai
malar, News Today, Maniyan etc.
(c) Press playing very sophisticated and cunning role. They pretend to be
neutral all the time but indirectly influncing the mass to support the
pro-Brahministic rule. Eg. Kalki, Kumutham, CHO etc.
(I have left out pure money minded press such as Thina thanthi, Ananda
Vikatan, kalkandu etc. which will publish any garbages on both sides for
sensation and hence, money)
Specifically to point out CHO's caste look against MK.
He used to criticise both MGR and MK very much for their dirty politics but
still portrayed MGR as very innocent and lesser evil of the two. Any
neutral and rational thinking Tamil knows how much damage both of them
caused to TN. A person who talks about the cleanliness of politics cannot
support both of them. When MGR died, in the next elections he wanted
Moopanar of Cong(I) over MK as the lesser evil (He did not support Jeya
Lalitha for two reasons - many people mistook about Jeya's popularity
and she was often very hysterical, not hearing anyone). When Congress
and Moopanar were out of the scene, he gets Jeyalalitha (Each time, he will
tell some reasons - that is the sophistication of Brahminism).
Between these two chauvinistic forces, neutral thinking became
incapable. Though the left political parties had some neutral views, they
became irrelevent because of their political opportunism. Real neutral
left thinkers have been sitting in the corners and lamenting their
inability.
Regarding CHO's predictabililty, there is nothing great in it.
Any person who watches Indian politics can predict about the behaviour of
parties and leaders unless he attaches himself to a certain party.
S.Sankarapandi
______________________________________________________________________________
SRINIVASAN,K
>The selection of organization that he choses to slander are
>all against Brahmanism. That should indicate his biases.
>
>Meenan Vishnu
Everybody knows how vehemently Cho has been opposing VHP and RSS
on the Ayodhya issue. So, make up your mind guys -- are you going
to get more mileage in your Brahmin bashing by calling RSS a
brahmanical organization or should you call it anti-b?!
When Cho wanted to attack near-pornography in Tamil mags, he let
Kumudham go easily but chose Idhayam, a brahmin run mag for the
most vehement attack.
I am not all praise for Cho. Somebody said all his prophecies
come true. Not quite so. I remember his negative editorial
as soon as Rajiv came to power. He was proven quite wrong -- in
their first term, Rajiv, VP & co did a great job. Only after being
reelected and reentry of Dhawan & co did Rajiv deteriorate.
I do not know of this wrong report by Cho about Prabhakaran's
death. From whatever I know I would expect Cho to have apologized
for the mistake. If he did not, he deserves to be condemned.
All in all, Cho is one of the best political satirists I have read
and to my knowledge very objective in his views. I don't think he is
over-rated as some say.
--
SRINIVASAN,K
School of Textile Engineering Georgia Tech.
uucp: ...!{allegra,amd,hplabs,seismo,ut-ngp}!gatech!prism!gt4084c
ARPA: gt4...@prism.gatech.edu
SRINIVASAN,K
>That is, he is a strong supporter of the establishment and go to any
>level to protect the establishment. Establishment obviously includes
>capitalism, Hinduism, Brahminism (or upper casteism).
Please read my other posting about Cho's support for Brahminism. Except
for his praise for RSS's discipline and patriotism, he has attacked their
stand on the temple issue, their goal of Hindu Rashtra, etc.
How much do you know of trade union movement history in TN to attack
anybody as pro-capitalist? RV seems to be the favorite target for
anybody as a brahmin politician. Do you know he is responsible for
establishment of trade unions in the tea estates, bus transport industry,
etc? What is your definition of pro-labor -- somebody like Datta Samant
or George Fernandez who will bleed an industry to death by making
unreasonable demands?
> He carefully avoided exclusive interviews with leftist intellectuals or
I remember an excl. interview with Basu.
I also remember his saying on more than one occasion that Thuglak is for
carrying HIS OPINIONS. He never claimed whatever he says to be the
ultimate truth in politics.
Sundara Pandian
In a previous article, gt4...@prism.gatech.EDU (SRINIVASAN,K) says:
[...]
>Everybody knows how vehemently Cho has been opposing VHP and RSS
>on the Ayodhya issue.
I have read Cho's editorial condemning the demolition of the
mosque, but I saw about hundreds of postings in SCI condemning
the demolition by Hindu militants. Some section from these Hindu
fundamentalist organizations themselves criticized the demolition
of the mosque. Cho strongly criticized the ban on RSS after the
demolition of the mosque in another editorial and it looked like
some of Kuram Narayana's postings in SCI. I also remember reading
a posting by Srinivas Sunder (He may have a copy) - an article by
Cho that came on an English daily and that article carried a lot
of RSS propaganda.
>
>When Cho wanted to attack near-pornography in Tamil mags, he let
>Kumudham go easily but chose Idhayam, a brahmin run mag for the
>most vehement attack.
You are referring to the `dhurvaasar' series in THuglak. It was
written by a group of writers in Thuglak and the modern Tamil
writer Vannanilavan was the brain behind this series. `dhurvaasar'
criticized Kumudham also, but Kumudham let it go easily. Manian
did not let it go easily and flamed Cho in his Idayam. Cho flamed
Manian in return in THuglak..
>I am not all praise for Cho. Somebody said all his prophecies
>come true. Not quite so. I remember his negative editorial
>as soon as Rajiv came to power. He was proven quite wrong -- in
>their first term, Rajiv, VP & co did a great job. Only after being
>reelected and reentry of Dhawan & co did Rajiv deteriorate.
I think Cho outdid Kuram Narayana in his personal abuses on
V.P.Singh for the Mandal Commision recommendations. I know he may
have differences with V.P. Singh about implementing Mandal
Commission or may find it as a `vote gathering proposal', but
calling V.P. Singh as "siththam kalangiyavar", "paiththiyam" etc.
was in bad taste.
>All in all, Cho is one of the best political satirists I have read
>and to my knowledge very objective in his views. I don't think he is
>over-rated as some say.
Who are the other best political satirists?
>--
>SRINIVASAN,K
Sundara Pandian.
--
Prabhukumar Ganapathy (PK)
>In article <1993Mar19.0...@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> ssan...@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (S. Sankarapandi) writes:
>>That is, he is a strong supporter of the establishment and go to any
>>level to protect the establishment. Establishment obviously includes
>>capitalism, Hinduism, Brahminism (or upper casteism).
>
>Please read my other posting about Cho's support for Brahminism. Except
>for his praise for RSS's discipline and patriotism, he has attacked their
>stand on the temple issue, their goal of Hindu Rashtra, etc.
>
>How much do you know of trade union movement history in TN to attack
>anybody as pro-capitalist? RV seems to be the favorite target for
>anybody as a brahmin politician. Do you know he is responsible for
>establishment of trade unions in the tea estates, bus transport industry,
>etc? What is your definition of pro-labor -- somebody like Datta Samant
>or George Fernandez who will bleed an industry to death by making
>unreasonable demands?
>
I used to respect GEORGE a lot. Of course it was for his
stand during emergency. In fact he is a very close friend
of my father. Here is one incident to establish the above
statement of Mr.Srinivasan.
I think most of the nettors know about the Railway
strike in 1975. That was a nation wide strike led
by none other than George (I think he was the president
of AIRF). There were lot of reasonable and unreasonable
demands. Initially Government found it very difficult
to deal with it. Later Mrs.Gandhi used strong measures
(very strong for me personally as my Dad lost his job
- he was jobless for about 18 months) to deal with it.
Then came Allahabad Judgement, Emergency, MISA etc etc.
Finally people voted Mrs.Gandhi out of power. Morarjibhai
is about to form the ministry. He was deciding on
who gets what. He was ready to give Mr.George his beloved
ministry (that is what everyone thought) ie RAILWAYS.
But our man refused it telling this
"Do you want me to say NO to my own demands?"
Of course Prof.Madhu Dhantavade was appointed as Railway
Minister and he did a very good job.
His FIGHT against COCA-COLA was more of a support for the
local business like THUMPS-UP etc. His socialist views
are totally outdated.
PK
Kathiravan Krishnamurthi
sO does not stand firm on any issue. In the early eighties
he has praised pirabaa. He is a member of the well organized
cheap journalists that undermines thamizhs.
his likes do more bad to thamizh than good.
anban
Kathiravan
Kathiravan Krishnamurthi
>I am not all praise for Cho. Somebody said all his prophecies
>come true. Not quite so. I remember his negative editorial
>as soon as Rajiv came to power. He was proven quite wrong -- in
>their first term, Rajiv, VP & co did a great job. Only after being
>reelected and reentry of Dhawan & co did Rajiv deteriorate.
>I do not know of this wrong report by Cho about Prabhakaran's
>death. From whatever I know I would expect Cho to have apologized
>for the mistake. If he did not, he deserves to be condemned.
>All in all, Cho is one of the best political satirists I have read
>and to my knowledge very objective in his views. I don't think he is
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^66
>over-rated as some say.
objective enRa vaarthaiyin ethirpatham thaan thangaL sO!
piraamaNiyaththin naasooku(sophistry) avanidam appadiyE
uLLathu.
athu enna naasooku? oru thuglaq paththirikkai eduththu
padiththaal puriyum.
Echchu puzhaippu nadaththum ivanai paRRi anthaathi paada
nErum Ethaiyaah ungaLukku.
anban
Kathiravan
Kathiravan Krishnamurthi
>In article <1993Mar19.0...@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> ssan...@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (S. Sankarapandi) writes:
>>That is, he is a strong supporter of the establishment and go to any
>>level to protect the establishment. Establishment obviously includes
>>capitalism, Hinduism, Brahminism (or upper casteism).
>Please read my other posting about Cho's support for Brahminism. Except
>for his praise for RSS's discipline and patriotism, he has attacked their
>stand on the temple issue, their goal of Hindu Rashtra, etc.
>How much do you know of trade union movement history in TN to attack
>anybody as pro-capitalist? RV seems to be the favorite target for
^^^^^^
RV =thurOki. En? en avipiraayam. thamizhanaaka irunthum,
thamizhanai azhikka padai anuppa uththaravu koduththa paavi.
sO patti thottikaLil senRu pEtti kaNdaanaa?
eezhaththil pOi pOraik kaNdaanaa.
AIR pirachchaaram seithaanE! ethaip paarthu aiyaah
avanum jeyakaanthanum pEsinaarkaL?
anban
Kathiravan
Ramachandran
|> In article <C44A7...@watserv2.uwaterloo.ca> mvi...@bcr3.uwaterloo.ca (Meenan Vishnu) writes:
|> >The selection of organization that he choses to slander are
|> >all against Brahmanism. That should indicate his biases.
|> **********************
|> >
|> >Meenan Vishnu
|>
|> Everybody knows how vehemently Cho has been opposing VHP and RSS
|> on the Ayodhya issue. So, make up your mind guys -- are you going
|> to get more mileage in your Brahmin bashing by calling RSS a
|> brahmanical organization or should you call it anti-b?!
|>
|> When Cho wanted to attack near-pornography in Tamil mags, he let
|> Kumudham go easily but chose Idhayam, a brahmin run mag for the
|> most vehement attack.
|>
|> I am not all praise for Cho. Somebody said all his prophecies
|> come true. Not quite so. I remember his negative editorial
|> as soon as Rajiv came to power. He was proven quite wrong -- in
|> their first term, Rajiv, VP & co did a great job. Only after being
|> reelected and reentry of Dhawan & co did Rajiv deteriorate.
Rajiv reelected???? Is my memory so poor? I thought Rajiv won one
and only one election in 1984 and was PM for about 5 years.
But I agree with you. The first few years were good. But all the
short term policies started showing their teeth and with the
ShahBano Case and Parliaments veto(?) of it, the tide turned.
This is MY opinion. All flames on this will be redirected to /dev/null.
There have been various comments about CHO and his articles. And how
people can imitate them, some examples were quoted too. IMHO, it
is just that if people with the right talent observe anybody for
sometime, they can imitate them. I know a couple of people from
Presidency College, Madras who can imitate anybody and anything on
the earth, including KSRaja.
I agree with others that he is one of the more principled journalists.
Just because he changed sides once (somebody had quoted an example),
does not make him unprincipled. We do make mistakes and he is also
human. And considering the general scenario prevailing in TN politics
and even at the National Level with switching allegiances as and when
one pleases, he is GREAT.
|>
|> I do not know of this wrong report by Cho about Prabhakaran's
|> death. From whatever I know I would expect Cho to have apologized
|> for the mistake. If he did not, he deserves to be condemned.
|>
|> All in all, Cho is one of the best political satirists I have read
|> and to my knowledge very objective in his views. I don't think he is
|> over-rated as some say.
Not at all. I agree with you on this. He has not abandoned his
principles in times of adversity when lesser mortals would have
surrendered to the whims and fancies of the establishment. I personally
like him because in the land of hypocrites, he does not think twice
in pointing out the deficiencies by the party in power.
And on the opinion by somebody saying that he opposes those who
oppose Brahminism, in one of his kELvi-pathil he had answered a
question to the effect "I personally prefer Karunanidhi over Jayalalitha
for the CM post".
(No, I am not a supporter of any political party, any individual
or any group.)
|> --
|> SRINIVASAN,K
|> School of Textile Engineering Georgia Tech.
|> uucp: ...!{allegra,amd,hplabs,seismo,ut-ngp}!gatech!prism!gt4084c
|> ARPA: gt4...@prism.gatech.edu
--
Cheers,
Ramachandran.
______________________________________________________________________________
All opinions expressed here are mine and *ONLY* mine and does not
reflect the opinions of either WIPRO InfoTech Limited or UNIVEL
______________________________________________________________________________
SRINIVASAN,K
>
>In a previous article, gt4...@prism.gatech.EDU (SRINIVASAN,K) says:
>
>[...]
>
>>Everybody knows how vehemently Cho has been opposing VHP and RSS
>>on the Ayodhya issue.
>
While I am not totally against the ban of RSS, I do not think
Cho's opposition to ban on RSS is due to Hindu fanatism. It is
more like this:
When you have allowed organizations in the name of language,
religion, caste, etc., how can you ban RSS? The government
has the resources needed to prevent any organization from
indulging in vandalism.
> I think Cho outdid Kuram Narayana in his personal abuses on
>V.P.Singh for the Mandal Commision recommendations. I know he may
>have differences with V.P. Singh about implementing Mandal
>Commission or may find it as a `vote gathering proposal', but
>calling V.P. Singh as "siththam kalangiyavar", "paiththiyam" etc.
>was in bad taste.
Yes, using such language is bad. However, VP's action was just to
counter the rural votes of Devi Lal and upper caste, minority votes
of Cong. Even if you assume his motives were laudable, only a
"paithiyam" would 've implemented the scheme in such haste - considering
the repurcussions such a scheme had in Gujarat.
>>All in all, Cho is one of the best political satirists I have read
>
> Who are the other best political satirists?
Art Buchwald and Lewis Grizzard (the later is more of a toungue in cheek
satirist on most political, social issues) -- I have to concede I have
read only very few of political satirists.
MAHENDRAN
>
>
> sO does not stand firm on any issue. In the early eighties
> he has praised pirabaa. He is a member of the well organized
> cheap journalists that undermines thamizhs.
>
> his likes do more bad to thamizh than good.
>
>
> anban
>
> Kathiravan
article.I am happy that I could understand you.
You usually write in Tamil using English letters, and that's little bit hard
for me to get the message. But just I am saying a fact. Nothing against
that but it will be easier to read if there is an english translation
is there.
First
I dont remember reading CHO praising prabhakaran in early eighties.
In fact when a journalist from Kerala visited Jaffna without visa
ie. He went to Jaffna with TELO men I believe. This is long before
INDO-SRILANKAN accord. Before he went to Jaffna he just told three
persons his wife,CHO,his editor.
When he came back CHO had an interview with him. At that time 99%
of the people of TN were supporters of all tamil organizations in
Sri-lanka and even at that time CHO didn't praise Prabha.
He made many mad by comparing tamil fighters who die by taking posion
fearing capture with drug smuglerrs. That was when the entire TN
was with tamil fighters. So I think your comments of CHO praising
Prabha is not quite true.
The following question is addressed to everybody.
Many say that CHO is doing bad for tamils. Even I myself dont
agree with CHO in many many ways.But I dont get you guys message.
I read Shankarapandi and felt he might be true in some of his points.
1)
You say that he is pro RSS. How can you say this is against tamils.
You can say that this is communalism even though I dont think he is
communal. I haven't seen this "pro communal" attack on him from the english
magazines. He is a close friend of Chandrasekar and Kamaraj. Nobody
can say they are communal.Kamaraj supported CHO when DK was attacking
him as anti Tamil. Chandrasekar is known for his anti-communal stand.
I dont think he can cheat both of them.In fact Kamaraj got pure
tamilan certificate from Periyar himself.I also
remember a prominent national writer Kuldeep Nayer or Nier wrote in
his magazine on a regular basis.I think he is a muslim.
I know that in Tamil Nadu RSS there are more non brahmins than Brahmins.
According my knowledge one particular backward community people
outnumber any other group by 3:1 in RSS membership.In fact the
leader of the hindu munani is also not a Brahmin. So the point is
you cant blame this guy for all this. I dont agree that all non
brahmins are fooled by CHO & CO or LK Advani&co.
You cant say all RSS memner's are fools. If you want say that they
are doing wrong. They are there on their own will for various reasons.
2) As we know DK always claims that because of Periyar and his works
communalism is rooted out in TN etc. That is quite true. So all these
RSS men also know about dravidan movements. But still it is growing in TN.
You guys are calling them as communal but not anti tamil. Why CHO alone
anti tamil?
3) Let us come to anti_tamil again. According to you Who is pro tamil?
I heard from many that even the present DK,DMK & ADMK are not true
representatives of Periyar. Then who is there for tamil interests.?
No body. It is not very logical for me to think that in TN there is
nobody for tamils.
4) As I mentioned earlier there was a complaint by a promonent
most backward community retired officer stating that DK did nothing
for most backward community in TN whereas in Karnataka and Kerala they are
well off. Even Vannier Sangam Ramados asked MGR to follow the
system in Kerala and Karnataka.
After all there is no DK in those states. He goes(IAS officer not Ramados)
on to complain that only DK's indirect help to non brahmins
high caste delayed reservation for most backwrad to 1991 in
Tamil Nadu.
5) Let us come to Brahmin controlled media. If you say that in 1940-1970
there are no non brahmin media for tamils cause, it is quite true. Now
we got Kungumam, Tharasu,Thina thanthi, Murasoli. Majority of the
common people read the non-brahmin stuff only. So brahmin controlled
media brain washing stuff is not going to sell that much. Are you
guys saying even after Periyar and reservation etc still Brahmins
can still brain wash tamils. Are tamils fools or what? You cant say
that all non brahmin magazines are not effective. They are alos doing
their business.
Brahmin media at present is not doing anything anti tamil according
to me. They are no worse than non brahmin media in doing things against
tamils. Cho is at his lowest in popularity because people dont think
he is effective any more. His attacks on JAYALALITHA is not being taken
seriously. So you cant say tamils are being fooled.
Friends I am not saying Brahmins are not Tamils. So the term anti tamil
quite confusing. So please explain. If the arguments are convincing I
will change my mind. No flames please.
Mahendran.
Srikant Sridevan
In article <19MAR199...@aardvark.ucs.uoknor.edu>,
mahe...@aardvark.ucs.uoknor.edu (MAHENDRAN) writes:
> magazines. He is a close friend of Chandrasekar and Kamaraj. Nobody
> can say they are communal.Kamaraj supported CHO when DK was attacking
> him as anti Tamil. Chandrasekar is known for his anti-communal stand.
> I dont think he can cheat both of them.In fact Kamaraj got pure
> tamilan certificate from Periyar himself.I also
O, and since when do people need certificates from others that they are
Tamil? This whole attitude stinks.
Srikant
Balaji Kannan
ssan...@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (S. Sankarapandi) writes:
[....]
>was) like God on the one hand and thrashed some people like Indira Gandhi or
>V.P.Singh merely on the basis of his own principles rather than the nature of
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>that person.
^^^^^^^^^^^
My *principle* may have taken the nature of a person into a/c no ??
Like say, my principle can be : Bash Brahmins ..
Why ??: Nature of a Brahmin is ....... [trait i don't like]
Now, if I know X, Y, Z .... are Brahmins and bash them, I am sticking
to my principles and ofcourse this principle is based on the nature
of the persons who are Brahmins.
Methinks, you have failed to see through it.
[Brahmin is just a convenient eg. Replace it with 'A', 'B'....]
A person may have other traits that I am not interested in or
don't find any reason to attack because it is not against *my*
principles [more than one?]. Anything wrong with that in an absolute
sense ?
>He used to praise Morarji, Advani, Chandrasekar, Hegde etc to show how
>clean a politician should be. But he carefully avoids examples like Jyoti Basu
^^^^^^^^^^
Clean politican is an Oxymoron. I think Hegde fooled the entire
national media. [sans some local newsmags]. And when did Jyoti Basu
become a clean politician ??
>or Nripan Chakravarthi (ex-Tripura CM) just because he does not like communism
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
and communists.... [matter of principle again]
>(CPM/CPI can hardly be called as communist parties is besides the point).
>He carefully avoided exclusive interviews with leftist intellectuals or
>leftist political parties.
MOP don't ya think ??
>An honest journalist will go to any spot and write reports on both sides
He never claimed that he was'nt an opinionated journalist.
[How cud he when he was such a staunch anti-communist]
>of any issue and leave the readers to decide whatever they want. BUt CHO used
>to write about everything in his office by merely getting the pictures from the
>establishment.
Getting pictures from the establishment ?? Can you substantiate that?
[He wudn't write about election 'goodhals' in that case]
-------------
[some opinions deleted]
>to support thier cause in the vote politics. The second force is the non-
>Brahmin movement which was very open and its communal politics was known and
>blown up considerably by the media. Moreover, since the brahmins were out of
>power for a long time, they could easily attribute the overall degeneracy of
>politics to the Dravidian movement, though MGR was supported by them till his
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>death, irrespective of his matching corruption and vandalism (to MK). Another
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Was there a choice ?? MGR was perceived as the lesser Brahmin-hater
of the two. Who bothers about corruption when both of 'em are equally
corrupt and degenerate ??
[...]
>Regarding CHO's predictabililty, there is nothing great in it.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>Any person who watches Indian politics can predict about the behaviour of
>parties and leaders unless he attaches himself to a certain party.
>S.Sankarapandi
Have little to disagree with this :-)
bk
Kathiravan Krishnamurthi
>In article <kat.732575686@sybok>, k...@doe.carleton.ca (Kathiravan Krishnamurthi) writes...
>>
>>
>> sO does not stand firm on any issue. In the early eighties
>> he has praised pirabaa. He is a member of the well organized
>> cheap journalists that undermines thamizhs.
>>
>> his likes do more bad to thamizh than good.
>>
>>
>> anban
>>
>> Kathiravan
>Mr. anban Kathiravan. O the One line commentator for my "Who is Periyar"
>article.I am happy that I could understand you.
>You usually write in Tamil using English letters, and that's little bit hard
>for me to get the message. But just I am saying a fact. Nothing against
>that but it will be easier to read if there is an english translation
>is there.
intha valai thamizhanukku, thamizh aRinthavanukku
aarambikkap pattathu aagum. ithil aangila mozhiyaakam
thara vEndiya avasiyam illai, niyathi illai.
sO vai thalai siRantha paththirikai aaLan
enpathai thaangaL pirasuriththu nEraththai
veenaakka theer.
>First
>I dont remember reading CHO praising prabhakaran in early eighties.
>In fact when a journalist from Kerala visited Jaffna without visa
>ie. He went to Jaffna with TELO men I believe. This is long before
>INDO-SRILANKAN accord. Before he went to Jaffna he just told three
>persons his wife,CHO,his editor.
>When he came back CHO had an interview with him. At that time 99%
>of the people of TN were supporters of all tamil organizations in
>Sri-lanka and even at that time CHO didn't praise Prabha.
sO oru thiruttup parathEsi. avanaip paRRi
thaangaL oruvar thaan anthaathi paada veLikkittu
Leer.
>fearing capture with drug smuglerrs. That was when the entire TN
>was with tamil fighters. So I think your comments of CHO praising
>Prabha is not quite true.
periyaarai paRRi meenan ERkanavE niRaiya
ezhuthi uLLaar!
I am including all the files on periyaar.
anban
Kathiravan
>Mahendran.
M. Sundaramoorthy
>
> intha valai thamizhanukku, thamizh aRinthavanukku
>aarambikkap pattathu aagum. ithil aangila mozhiyaakam
>thara vEndiya avasiyam illai, niyathi illai.
..............
> sO vai thalai siRantha paththirikai aaLan
> enpathai thaangaL pirasuriththu nEraththai
> veenaakka theer.
..............
> sO oru thiruttup parathEsi. avanaip paRRi
> thaangaL oruvar thaan anthaathi paada veLikkittu
> Leer.
anban Kathiravan avargaLE,
ithu OraLavu thaan uNmai. intha valai thamizhar allathavargaLum,
thamizhai aRiyaathavargaLum kooda thamizhai paRRi aRinthuk
koLLa uthava vENdum.
athai veRRu koochchalgaLaalum, vaRattu vasai mozhigaLaalum
ceyya mudiyaathu. thamizh mozhi, ilakkiyam, varalaaRu, paNpaadu
pOnRavaRRin meethaana aakkappoorvamaana katturaigaLum,
arrOkkiyamaana vivathangaLum thaan ceyya mudiyum. athu thaan
thamizh mozhikkum, thamizh camoogaththiRkum, intha valaikkum
nallathu. athai vittu, kuruttampOkkil, 'avan thamizh thurOki -
ivan thamizh inak kaavalan', 'avan maaveeran - ivan maangaaY
madaiyan' enRu kooppaadu pOduvathaal thamizh mozhiyaiyO,
camoogaththaiyO thooki niRuththa mudiyaathu enpathai uNara
vENdum.
mElum, oru puRam thamizh 'marapu', 'paNpu', 'maaRRaan thOttaththu
malligai ..' enRellaam vaay kizhiya pEsivittu, namakku
viruppamillaathavarai, nam karuththukku muraNaana karuththu
koNdavarai anaagarigamaana muRaiyil viLippathu, aruvaruppaana
coRkaLil vaivathu entha marabil-paNbil cErththi enRu theriyavillai.
namakku ERpillaatha karuththukkaLai yaarEnum munvaiththal, athu
En thavaRu enpathai caRRu aRivuppoorvamaana muRaiyil viLakki,
nammudaiya maaRRuk karuththukkaLai munvaippathE naagarigamaana
ceyalaagum. veRumanE oRRai variyil 'ithai ezhuthaathE, athai
collaathEi' enRu kattaLaiyiduvathaRku namakku athigaarmum illai
enbathu mattumalla, athu nAmmudaiya aRivu vaRatchiyaith thaan
veLichcham pOttuk kaattum.
naagarigamaana mozhi, aaNiththaramaana karuththukkaL ivaiyiraNdum
neengiya anjalkaL nammai vegu viraivil maRRavargaLidamirunthu
anniyappaduththi vidum.
valaikku puthithaaga vanthirukkum naNpar Mahendran, uNmaiyilEyE
thagaval ceRintha katturaigaL cilavaRRai anjal ceythuLLaar.
avarudaiya karuththukkaL cilavaRRil ungaLukku mattumalla, palarukkum
udanpaadu illaamal irukkalaam. athai naagarigamaaga eduththuc
cholvathu thaan muRai. athai ungaLaith thavira maRRavargaL
anaivarumE ceythuLLanar.
ippOdhu ceyvathaip pOla thodarnthaal palarudaiya 'kolaik
kOppil' (Kill file) ungaL peyar idam peRum. ithu onRu thaan
intha valaiyil ungaL caathanaiyaaga irukkumEyanRi, neengaL
kaRpanai ceythuk koNidiruppathu pOl thamizh mozhikkO, thamizh
inaththiRkO neengaL entha payanaiyO, perumaiyaiyO thEditharaap
pOvathillai.
>
> anban
>
> Kathiravan
anban
Mu. Sundaramoorthy
'enakkum thamizh thaan uyir moochchu
athai piRar mEl vidamaattEn'
- Gnanakkoothan.
Sridhar Vembu
I think that in the
challenging kind of environment any journalist in TN would
find himself/herself in, Cho has done a good job of being
a critic of our politicians and our govt.
He has contributed usefully to political satire in Tamil.
I admire his fearlessness in expressing his opinion - you only
have to look at the rest of the Tamil media to realize
that. It is sickening to see the degree of sychophancy (sp?)
in the Tamil press and heartening to have at least
a few fearless people like Cho.
I agree it is stupid to go around asking his
opinion about the best poet or the best mathematician etc.
Finally about LTTE, I think that Cho has always had
*India's and Indian Tamils interests* in
his heart - and that is what I admire
in him, when so many other Tamil periodicals and newspapers did
the more emotionally appealing and the then popular thing of supporting
a separate state for Tamils. Even I used to feel strongly
about a separate state for Tamils but I realize now that it
is NOT in India's or Indian Tamil's interest to support them.
Many of Cho's fears about LTTE have exactly come true and at
that time he was one of the very few who expressed them
in print.
Of course, there are many issues on which I disagree with Cho -
for example I think he clings to some outdated male chauvinistic
notions and his opposition to Indira Gandhi was at least in part
due to her gender (I also think she was a bad PM for India but I disagree
with the way he often made fun of her).
Sridhar Vembu
ve...@ee.princeton.edu
SRINIVASAN,K
>|> He was proven quite wrong -- in
>|> their first term, Rajiv, VP & co did a great job. Only after being
>|> reelected and reentry of Dhawan & co did Rajiv deteriorate.
>
>Rajiv reelected???? Is my memory so poor? I thought Rajiv won one
>and only one election in 1984 and was PM for about 5 years.
No, your memory is not poor at all. The first time around he just got
the seat vacated by his mother. Even as I wrote this the first time, I knew
I was making a technical error, but due to laziness 'thought I can get
away with it!! Thanks for letting me know I can't!!
C.R.Selvakumar - Electrical Engineering
>
> sO oru thiruttup parathEsi. avanaip paRRi
> thaangaL oruvar thaan anthaathi paada veLikkittu
> Leer.
Please Kathiravan ! What do you _achieve_ by hurling personal
abuses ? If you feel Cho is a 'thirudan' or 'parathEsi' you should
tell his 'thiruttu' or his 'parathEsi(th) thanmai' with supporting
evidence. You may not be afraid to say what you feel but in itself
it can not be a sensible or a great thing unless what you are
saying is absolutely true. Please consider my request and please
post _considered_ opinions with some support and in a manner
appropriate in a min_avai. Is this the respect you have for a
thamizh _avai_, kathiravan ?!!
Cho might not be a saint, and he
might have so many personal agenda to work on ( nothing wrong
with this) but has any one provided the political criticism that
he had ? If you feel, Murasoli or some other publications did
a comparable thing, you could discuss and debate in an enlivening
manner. I am as unpopular as you are for my views and I do use
pretty strong words a number of times but what I can not
understand is why should noraml people use unparlementary
language. By using unfit language, it is us who become pitiable
and not the people on whom hurting words are hurled.
On the one hand you do speak about such lofty items like
kanthar anuboothi, tamil literature etc. on the other hand
you use what many consider 'unfit' non-redeeming language.
Please consider my criticism as well meant and please
consider contributing to _our_ valai to _enrich_.
I did like many of your posts on tamil literature and
kanthar anuboothis.. and I know you can _contribute_ more.
As thiruvaLLuvar says 'sollin kaN sOrvu' ( being careless with
words) is something worth avoiding. For your consideration..
>
> anban
>
> Kathiravan
>>Mahendran.
anbudan
Selvaa
" kEttaar piNikkum thagaiyavaai(k) kELaarum
vEtpa mozhivathaam sol"
ThiruvaLLuvarin oLirhthEn vaakku.
kEttar kasakkavum, kELaathaarum kasandhu Oda
solvathaa siRappu ? _aruL_ koorndhu eNNi(p) paarungaL
( kathiravan, suresh ...)
S. Sankarapandi
>oppose Brahminism, in one of his kELvi-pathil he had answered a
>question to the effect "I personally prefer Karunanidhi over Jayalalitha
>for the CM post".
>
I have deleted other parts of your post because I agree with them. What
you have written above is also very true. But I want to explain with reference
to the context and one will probably understand CHO better.
As I said earlier, he represents the interests of Brahminism (not all
brahmins) rather than true journalism as far as his judgement of TN politics.
For example, according to his hidden ideolgy, he would never prefer MK
because MK is against the interests of brahminism. I would never say that he
judged any TN politician based upon what caste he belonged. But judges them
based upon how much that politician would go against the interests of
Brahminism (not all Brahmins). Then, among the rest of the politicians, he
would evaluate them according to their individual credentials.
So he would never consider MK/DMK to be fit for CM according to his first
principles. He does not want to reveal this first priniciple and hence chooses
an indirect way.
Till MGR was alive, he preferred MGR to MK. One can understand this
because MGR was not worse than MK (there could be differences on this).
When MGR died, there was a general mentality among most of the people that
MK was OK compared to all those ADMK splinter groups. Somehow CHO could not
assimilate it. He did not support Jeya because he knew that politically Jeya
was not a good choice. So he brought two other people Moopanar and Janaki who
were just dummies behind `bofors thug' (at least at that time of elcections)
Rajiv and the_totally_opportunistic_and_corrupt ADMK goodas respectively and
both of them had no popularity either. He put his chioce in Thuglaq as
1.Moopanar 2. Janaki, 3.MK and 4.Jeya. The above keLvi-pathil was one
which appeared during that time.
Right after that elections, Moopanar was out of the seen because he was
just a dummie and Janaki, the other dummy, swindled and shared ADMK's (MGR's
contribution to his party) property with Jeya and came to the US to settle with
her folks. So the two dummies were removed. Now you can see our CHO. Then
on, he compared Jeya with MK and found her better.
This is what the sophistication of brahminism (not all brahmins).
S. Sankarapandi
PS: I am not a supporter of MK. For me all (MGR, MK, Jeya etc) are same and
served the interests of different segments of the establishment.
PPS: I too consider CHO as a very principled journalist without going for any
compromise such as money, false fame, position etc but his principle is to
defend or reinstitutionalize the establishment of Brahminism, capitalism and
Hinduism. He is honest in exposing his capitalist interests because majority
of the human beings have capitalistic attitude but he hides his Brahminstic and
Hinduist interests because majority still believe or pretend to believe it as
communal.
MAHENDRAN
>
>
>S. Sankarapandi writes
>
>
>PS: I am not a supporter of MK. For me all (MGR, MK, Jeya etc) are same and
>served the interests of different segments of the establishment.
>
>PPS: I too consider CHO as a very principled journalist without going for any
>compromise such as money, false fame, position etc but his principle is to
>defend or reinstitutionalize the establishment of Brahminism, capitalism and
>Hinduism. He is honest in exposing his capitalist interests because majority
>of the human beings have capitalistic attitude but he hides his Brahminstic and
>Hinduist interests because majority still believe or pretend to believe it as
>communal.
Mr. S. Sankarapandi
You can remember that I have raised some questions about the "CHO's anti
Tamil activities" and nobody replied for that. Honestly I didn't expect
any reply from any for all my 6 questions. But I hoped that you would
atleast answer some. Afterall you gave a very detailed analysis in the
re posting of your artilce which I didn't read very carefully. But I
thought you might be right in some points except for Brahmin interest.
Of course all of your article was based on that point.
But I had trouble in understanding "Brahmin Interests". As far as I know
even if CHO becomes CM he cant do any good/harm to brahmins than MK can do
in Tamil Nadu. Our's is a democratic country and fooling people beyond
an extent will not work. Cho may be against MK because of MK's anti
brahmin stand. But even MK cant sustantially change the present status
of Brahmins or any other in TN.
Also I have in trouble understanding your anti capitalistic stand.
I dont know whether you are anti capitalist or not. But I assume so.
But also I have to give a friendly warning that according to US
law a communist can not come to US even to study.
Any way let us come to capitalism. I read many books on communism and
nobody in the whole world can understand fully the communist concepts.
Even understanding three volumes each of "Das Capital and Theory of
Surplus value " may be next to impossible. Believe me it is a high
funda stuff. First I have to understand that to argu against it. But
you may know better than me about Karl Marx.
Even India's first PM was attracted to socialism by reading Marx. I
know the story of a rich man from India who went to Cambridge and
he almost became a communist. He was the owner of a factory which
employs 1000 people.
But without knowing much about communism I want to ask you certain
questions?
Let us remove all capitalistic system in TN. Every thing belongs to
state factories, farm land etc. Do you see any improvement in
the masses in the near future except for the change in status of
some ruling men. Uncontrolled population and lack of natural
resources like water etc is making TN a desert. You can at the
maximum say that educational standard and medical facilities can
be improved. But in capitalist western countries those facilities
are far better than in all of the communist and socialist countries.
Whether you like it or not all the capitalist countries are going
or achieved the goal of free medical insurance and education for
all. That includes benifit for elderly. Even many dont agree for that.
But the point is capitalism is the best due to practical reasons.
I agree that education and medical should be made free. But in TN
the outstanding leader of this century of TN the true national
leader Mr. K. Kamaraj introduced free meal scheme & free education. That
is nothing to do with anti capitalism.The poor people are treated like
animals in police stations and government hospitals. That is the problem
that needs to be rectified. Corruption and inefficiency has made the
government services unaffordable. If every body give the same attention
of that Brahminism to this the poor people of TN can avoid hell in their
every day life. So talk and write about this instead of brahminism.
Mr. Shankarapandi
Dont think I am advising you. I am just saying there is no such Brahmin
stuff we have to worry about now and the poor masses want guys like you
to really help them.
Privatisation of railways and bus service, telephone services will increase
efficiency and decrease cost. I dont think those corrupt politicians can
understand this.
The problem with TN now is.
LACK of resources for the 5 crore? population.
Increase in Population.
Lack of jobs.
Lack of education.
I know in my village irrespective of high or lowf we divide the land
it is not going to help. Because of land reforms no body can own a
big chunk of land. I dont think unless we control population
we can avoid a disaster. It is going to be very hard in future.
At the present rate of poverty I cant think even 1% of our
popuation can afford to the benifits of the 98% of people
western countries are enjoying in the near future.
SO communism will bring only horror and death and dictatorship.
Controling population, increasing education , increase in
industrial development, exporting goods etc etc is the solution.
I dont see that happen due to our corroupt politicians and
people who want us to be divided.
Mr . Shankarapandi
Pl reply at the earliest. Sorry for grammer mistakes.
Mahendran.
Sundara Pandian
[ Pertinent to the discussion on Cho in the net is the following
excerpts from his article "Ayodhya is not the problem: It is a
warning" that came on the daily "Hindustan Times". Srinivas
Sunder posted these excerpts in SCI earlier and my thanks to
him for mailing me this article within days after I requested him.
- Sundara Pandian ]
---------------------- repost from SCI -------------------------------
AYODHYA IS NOT THE PROBLEM: IT IS A WARNING
Cho S. Ramaswamy (Editor 'Tughlaq') in Hindustan Times, Dec.20, 1992
(Excerpts)
If the demolition of the mosque was communal fanaticism, the dismissal
of the three BJP governments is secular lunacy. What the BJP has lost
in power, it could gain in sympathy...
The Congress, which very often cohabits with the Muslim League cannot
really be secular...
What is this frustration that rankles in the minds of a considerable
section of the Hindus? It is nothing but the growing conviction that
the Government, the secular parties, the Press, and the elite are all
the time pampering the Muslim (which term in our country is
significantly synonymous with the minority) in the garb of secularism...
When the Congress Prime Minister intervenes to nullify the Supreme
Court verdict in the Shah Bano case with a new legislation, it is only
reactionally. But when the BJP Chief Minister acquires disputed land
for the temple to preclude legal hurdles, it is outrageous communalism.
The restoration of the Muslim character of the Aligarh Muslim University,
acheieved by a legislation to cast aside the verdict of the court to the
contrary , is political sagacity, but in the temple issue is communal
intrasigence. The demand for the scrapping of Article 370, which is a
constitutional anachronism, is denounced as an attempt to inflame
communal passions, but the continued refusal even to debate the
advisability of a common civil code which is enjoined by the directive
principles in the Constitution is winked at as the practice of
pragmatism.
If the contortions in our observance of secularism continue, the question
would be - if Islamic nations could exist and be accepted by the world,
why not a Hindu Rashtra here?
Ayodhya is not the problem. It is a warning. Let us take heed of it.
The fanatics cannot be allowed to truimph and refusal to listen to
the moderates would achieve only that. The Akalis were ignored and
a Bhindaranwale was created. Farooq Abdullah was humiliated and the
Kashmir terrorist got coronated. If we are now intent on paralysing
the BJP and RSS we would only have the Bajrang Dal instead...
Mr Nihal Singh, Director, Press Institute of India, is, as usual,
critical of BJP. But in his piece in 'The Pioneer' (Jan.6) he
recognises that 'a sea-change has taken place among significant
sections of Hindus in the North in their view of secularism.
And the mixture of militant Hinduism the BJP offers with its
philosophy has evoked a popular resonance."
------------------------- end of repost ---------------------------------
--
S. Sankarapandi
In article <21MAR199...@aardvark.ucs.uoknor.edu> mahe...@aardvark.ucs.u
oknor.edu (MAHENDRAN) writes:
>
>Mr. S. Sankarapandi
>
>You can remember that I have raised some questions about the "CHO's anti
>Tamil activities" and nobody replied for that. Honestly I didn't expect
>any reply from any for all my 6 questions. But I hoped that you would
>atleast answer some. Afterall you gave a very detailed analysis in the
>re posting of your artilce which I didn't read very carefully. But I
>thought you might be right in some points except for Brahmin interest.
>Of course all of your article was based on that point.
>
I have not followed up your article because you had discussed several
issues in your posting about CHO. I just posted my comments (purely my
opinions) about CHO strictly adhering to the subject header. So I may not have
answered your questions nor I remember all the questions.
You have asked me the above question and I give my own opinions (I am not
eligible to pass judgements on CHO). I dont think that he is particularly
anti-Tamil nor he had any specific reasons to involve in anti-Tamil activities.
But I can say that he is anti-poor people because of his pro-establishment
nature. In that respect you can call him anti-tamil, anti-telegu,
anti-kashmiri etc. You can also call him as anti-eazham (rather than
anti-tamils though eazham Tamils, in their own judgement, can consider him as
anti-eazham Tamils) because of his `akaNda bharath' concept.
More than this I dont have anything to say. So please dont confuse my
opinions with somebody else. Also I am not a veteran of thoughts :-)
(your all other opinions are deleted because I dont want to drag the
discussions on different front.
You are probably mistaken me. I am not here to represent any party or
school of thought and I am not a knowledgeable person to give my ideas or
comments on everything. I am one of the several netters who discuss on the
issues in which we know, are interested and want to learn.
You have raised many good points and I request you to tell us whether you
know how to go about and do something. I want to learn from you. I also know
about the problems you have talked here. I think about it and I may think of
it in different angles. But as for as achieving what we want, I dont know.
Please tell us if you know.
S. Sankarapandi
Kathiravan Krishnamurthi
> LACK of resources for the 5 crore? population.
> Increase in Population.
> Lack of jobs.
> Lack of education.
The population of TN is not increasing as you fear.
TN and keraLaa have achieved a lot compared to other
states in this regard. In most of
the agricultural communities the traditional families
were always smaller. Fear of division of land forced
them to settle for less kids. Even before family planning
days some crude methods were practiced[I know of kongku region]
[I still do not advocate complacency]
The basic health problem is proper sanitation.
Improvement in this area would mean a lot of
improvement in health matters.
But distribution of population is a problem. Many villages
are thinning down as people are moving to towns and cities
in search of better prospects. The govt. does not have
to act on the directive of the center but introduce more
schools, hospitals in villages. Also water resources are
depleting. Rain forests are getting destroyed. Settlements
other than existing tribals in niligris and eastern ghats
should be stopped. The resource that is more needed than anything
else is water and the rain forests have to be saved.
Most of the destruction has already been done. Govt
is apathetic in these matters. Only organisations like
TNAU are involved in saving the environment.
>I know in my village irrespective of high or lowf we divide the land
>it is not going to help. Because of land reforms no body can own a
>big chunk of land. I dont think unless we control population
>we can avoid a disaster. It is going to be very hard in future.
>At the present rate of poverty I cant think even 1% of our
>popuation can afford to the benifits of the 98% of people
> western countries are enjoying in the near future.
Agriculture has been more succesful in coimbatore-pollachi
area after the implementation of the parambikulam-aazhiyaar
project. Agriculture in thanjavoor is different. It is plagued
by the cauvery dispute as well as big landlodism.
>SO communism will bring only horror and death and dictatorship.
>Controling population, increasing education , increase in
>industrial development, exporting goods etc etc is the solution.
TN is exporting a lot of stuff. tirupoor has become
a center of textile industry. But the gap between rich
and poor is increasing. The rich guys who made money
from the industry should do something for the betterment
of the poor. Only laws and regulation will help.
Communists have always been strong in this area of TN.
Another new export area is software. RAMAKRISHNA
steel people are starting a sofware company called
RAM High Tech. in Coimbatore. They have a branch office
in Ottawa.
anban
Kathiravan
Kathiravan Krishnamurthi
>principles in the Constitution is winked at as the practice of
>pragmatism.
>If the contortions in our observance of secularism continue, the question
>would be - if Islamic nations could exist and be accepted by the world,
>why not a Hindu Rashtra here?
>Ayodhya is not the problem. It is a warning. Let us take heed of it.
>The fanatics cannot be allowed to truimph and refusal to listen to
>the moderates would achieve only that. The Akalis were ignored and
>a Bhindaranwale was created. Farooq Abdullah was humiliated and the
>Kashmir terrorist got coronated. If we are now intent on paralysing
>the BJP and RSS we would only have the Bajrang Dal instead...
RSS is a terrosrist organization, not a moderate one
as sO tries to convey.
anban
Kathiravan
Meenan Vishnu
>
>Finally about LTTE, I think that Cho has always had
>*India's and Indian Tamils interests* in
>his heart - and that is what I admire
>in him,
>
>ve...@ee.princeton.edu
The principle that it is IMMORAL to support an anti-government
militants of a friendly neighbor is indeed commendable and I too
think so.
However gross sacrifice of truth is what is condemned. HE WROTE THAT
LTTE'S LEADER WAS SHOT DEAD BY HIS DEPUTY MAHATHYA AND WENT ON
TO DESCRIBE THE FUNERAL PROCESSION OF THE LTTE LEADER.
I think this is very venomous. A journalist should always
make sure that he is a credible source of information or should not
hesitate to apologize if some events turn out to be false.
Journals that are not credible are only good for cleaning and parcel
wrapping purposes.
Meenan Vishnu
mahe...@aardvark.ucs.uoknor.edu
> school of thought and I am not a knowledgeable person to give my ideas or
> comments on everything. I am one of the several netters who discuss on the
> issues in which we know, are interested and want to learn.
>
> You have raised many good points and I request you to tell us whether you
> know how to go about and do something. I want to learn from you. I also know
> about the problems you have talked here. I think about it and I may think of
> it in different angles. But as for as achieving what we want, I dont know.
> Please tell us if you know.
>
>
> S. Sankarapandi
Sorry if I had troubled you in any way. Even though I am in US for a long
time I rarely read this SCI and rarely reply. In fact my periyar article was
the first and now I feel not to continue. Before that I want to clarify
certain points.
First of all my reason for calling your name is that I liked your articles
and found sensible. Even though I dont agree with you I was very interested
in knowing the logic behind the so called "anti tamil" attacks (only)
addressed to brahmins. As I thought more and more I felt that these are
being raised by the very guys who oppose caste system. If I simply
ask "why" they respond by saying it is being caused by "brahmins".
So I wrote not a very detailed questioneire which can be addressed to
anybody who write in those angles. I tried to prove there is no such
Brahmin conspiracy and if there is any it can can not be identified with
brahmins.ie. communalish in any form is to be blamed on everyone and
simply talking the so called brahminism will not solve any problem and
in fact divert our attention from concentrating on real issues.
As regards the questions I raised I think I can offer some
sort of solution and that's not my intension. The main point was
common man's everydays problems which can be easily solved are not
taken care of and not paid attention where as these anti tamil stuff
carries more attention for no purpose at all.
Thats all. Discussion regarding the communism stuff I should'nt have
written but after seeing some article against you in that regard I wrote
something which can be stopped here.
I am closing with one comment hoping not to write again in this
regard. Identifiing some caste as anti tamil etc is wrong. Every group
with headings namely caste, region, religion, color, lanuage, etc etc
work in some ways for the upliftment of their own way. So particulary
targeting one community is against humanity and is a total discrimination.
While regarding Periya's achievemts as good I have to say his
strong anti brahmin tone was wrong. He did remarkable things but saying he
was the only reason for all the changes is not that correct. But he was
a unique personality in his own way. Lot of social evils are still there
and many were removed because of so many organization and people in so
many states.
Communism even though it looks good in theory is very hard to
inplement in a sucessful way and defnitely lead to corruption, dictatorship
and inefiiciency due to human nature and practical implementation problems.
As somebody wrote it was written in a period when workers and peasents
were treated as animals by a few land lords and king like rulers. Karl
Marx failed to forsee the improvements in the standard of living of the
working class that we saw in the twentieth century. He thought that class
strugle was the only solution to improve the conditions of the poor masses
and we saw the result in so many countries. But he was also a human so he
had his limitations.
So my only intention was to know the rational, reason and logic
behind calling somebody as anti tamil.Thats it. peroid.
When somebody is so sure of writing
in that regard should have some reasoning behind it. I wanted to know that.
Any way I am happy that you clarified that You dont call CHO as anti Tamil
in particular. But other questions I addressed to all remain unanswered
(not the problems in TN but the anti tamil).
Thanks to you and Anban Kathiravan who wrote some very interesting things
in response to my questions. Anban you can contribute more.
Mahendran.
S. Sankarapandi
In article <C4M9o...@ns1.nodak.edu> gana...@plains.NoDak.edu (Prabhukumar Ga
napathy (PK)) writes:
>In article <C4Bvn...@watserv2.uwaterloo.ca> mvi...@bcr3.uwaterloo.ca (Meena
n Vishnu) writes:
>>The principle that it is IMMORAL to support an anti-government
>>militants of a friendly neighbor is indeed commendable and I too
>>think so.
>>
>>However gross sacrifice of truth is what is condemned. HE WROTE THAT
>>LTTE'S LEADER WAS SHOT DEAD BY HIS DEPUTY MAHATHYA AND WENT ON
>>TO DESCRIBE THE FUNERAL PROCESSION OF THE LTTE LEADER.
>>I think this is very venomous. A journalist should always
>>make sure that he is a credible source of information or should not
>>hesitate to apologize if some events turn out to be false.
>>Journals that are not credible are only good for cleaning and parcel
>>wrapping purposes.
>>
>>Meenan Vishnu
>
>
> THUGLUK when I was in India. Of course I came to US couple
> of times on short visits in 89 and 91. So I might have
> missed some thugluks. I don't remember this stuff appearing
> in Thugluk. (Of course I vaguely remember CHO hinting that
> Prabhakaran would have died). I want to know exactly which
> issue carried the description of the funeral procession.
> Please quote the date if you can. I just want to read
> it (yes I can get a copy by some means). I feel if he
> has written like that and has not made an apology later
> he is wrong. But please let me know the issue when
> this article appeared. I here a lot about this article
> on SCT but somehow I missed it.
>
> PK
I remember reading this in Thugluk also apart from all other Indian
newspapers and Tamil magazines. Right after this report LTTE issued a
statement (denying this report) which appeared in The Hindu. Even then many
beleived in the report given by IPKF. As usual, some of our TN magazines
(which thusfar portrayed Pirabhakaran as a terrorist) started singing praise
for Pirabhakaran. I remember Kalki wrote a one page article with Pirabhakaan's
picture comparing him with Subhash Chandra Bose (the same Kalki was writing
LTTE as terrorists in all the editorials, kELvi-pathil etc). Simultaneously
Kalki carried a serial story of Vaasanthi which very intelligently portrayed
the militants as ill-disciplined terrorists using the ethnic problem.
CHO, in his overenthusiasm of taming the tigers, published several
untruths about LTTE and the above report was one of them. In fact, it was CHO
in his own astrological wisdom predicted the split of LTTE due to interior
power struggle and Pirabhakaran, Maathaiya and Kittu killing each other.
Probably IPKF bought this story from CHO himself and made itself a fool. If
CHO portrayed LTTE merely as terrorists, he could be considered as honest and
wise because LTTE does use terrorism as one of their weapons in the freedom
struggle. In stead, he published several fabricated stories about LTTE as
totally undisciplined and uncivilized barbarians who indulge in raping Tamil
women etc. One can have different opnions about LTTE's terrorism because they
killed other political activists, human rights activists, innocent Singalese in
a few cases. But they are much more disciplined and freedom-motivated than the
Indian government, media and the urban intelligentia try to project them.
One thing we Indians fail to recognize is that the SL Tamils have a nation
under the control of their LTTE military rule (which was the result of SL
government's state sponsored terrorism). All the Srilankan Tamils may not
support LTTE as we do not support Cong (I) and the Iraq people do not support
Saddam Hussein. Just because their nation is not recognized by the
international bodies, Eezham does not cease to exist. We can debate over the
credibility of LTTE or Pirabhakaran to rule their people as we can do with PVNR
or Saddam Hussein. In stead, if we choose to call the SL Tamils' government as
terrorist, then the SL Tamils will talk against our government. Just like our
patriotism does not allow us bear insulting our country and government, they
also do not bear it. There is no end for this because India and Pakistan have
the same problems for last 40 plus years.
S. Sankarapandi
Kathiravan Krishnamurthi
>In article <1993Mar21.0...@Princeton.EDU> ve...@homes.Princeton.EDU (Sridhar Vembu) writes:
>>
>>Finally about LTTE, I think that Cho has always had
>>*India's and Indian Tamils interests* in
>>his heart - and that is what I admire
>>in him,
>>
>>Sridhar Vembu
>>ve...@ee.princeton.edu
>The principle that it is IMMORAL to support an anti-government
>militants of a friendly neighbor is indeed commendable and I too
>think so.
indira supported militants and I listened
to her speech in 1983 in thanjaavoor. but we all
know what happened. the indian govt. messed up
purposely. by
cheating in the accord. They destroyed the
press of thamizh as peacekeeping forces.
Will any moral govt. go under the pretext
of peace keeping and first destroy the
press of thamizh people.
>However gross sacrifice of truth is what is condemned. HE WROTE THAT
>LTTE'S LEADER WAS SHOT DEAD BY HIS DEPUTY MAHATHYA AND WENT ON
>TO DESCRIBE THE FUNERAL PROCESSION OF THE LTTE LEADER.
>I think this is very venomous. A journalist should always
>make sure that he is a credible source of information or should not
>hesitate to apologize if some events turn out to be false.
>Journals that are not credible are only good for cleaning and parcel
>wrapping purposes.
sO upholds all these acts. he came on AIR and presented
as a good samaritan and acted as a mouth piece
of the govt.
i was releived when the aRingnars in world
thamizh conf. decided to use mauritius as a base
for thamizh studies. india i am afraid is becoming
more and more an abuser of human rights and does
not respect the diverse cultures that constitute
the great land. in the name of unity fundamentalism
is set loose on the minorities. punjab, assam,
kasmir are examples.
anban
Kathiravan
>Meenan Vishnu
Meenan Vishnu
>>In article <1993Mar21.0...@Princeton.EDU> ve...@homes.Princeton.EDU (Sridhar Vembu) writes:
>>>
>>>Finally about LTTE, I think that Cho has always had
>>>*India's and Indian Tamils interests* in
>>>his heart - and that is what I admire
>>>in him,
>>>
>>>Sridhar Vembu
>>>ve...@ee.princeton.edu
>>
>>
>>The principle that it is IMMORAL to support an anti-government
>>militants of a friendly neighbor is indeed commendable and I too
>>think so.
>>
>>However gross sacrifice of truth is what is condemned. HE WROTE THAT
>>LTTE'S LEADER WAS SHOT DEAD BY HIS DEPUTY MAHATHYA AND WENT ON
>>TO DESCRIBE THE FUNERAL PROCESSION OF THE LTTE LEADER.
>>I think this is very venomous. A journalist should always
>>make sure that he is a credible source of information or should not
>>hesitate to apologize if some events turn out to be false.
>>Journals that are not credible are only good for cleaning and parcel
>>wrapping purposes.
>>
>>Meenan Vishnu
>
>
> THUGLUK when I was in India. Of course I came to US couple
> of times on short visits in 89 and 91. So I might have
> missed some thugluks. I don't remember this stuff appearing
> in Thugluk. (Of course I vaguely remember CHO hinting that
> Prabhakaran would have died). I want to know exactly which
> issue carried the description of the funeral procession.
> Please quote the date if you can. I just want to read
> it (yes I can get a copy by some means). I feel if he
> has written like that and has not made an apology later
> he is wrong. But please let me know the issue when
> this article appeared. I here a lot about this article
> on SCT but somehow I missed it.
>
> PK
I read it during the summer of 1989 (I was doing a work-term in Ottawa).
I think it is one of the August 1989 issue (may be July). I had a copy
which I had given to someone who never returned it.
Do you remember he wrote a series of articles on IPKF/LTTE and about
his visit to Sri Lanka ? It was in one of those days.
Anyway check August 1989 issues and if you happened to get hold of a copy
I would also like to have a photocopy.
The gist of his article said that V. Prabhakaran was shot dead by his
deputy Mahathya (because of some power struggle) and that his body is
placed at the Mathawacci railway
station for the public to pay their last respects. He also wrote that
scores of people had come to Mathawacci to pay their last respects.
I believed it and I was very sad. Then after about a week, the LTTE
went around showing video of Prabhakaran reading an Indian Tamil
newspaper with headlines "Pirapakaran killed".
Meenan Vishnu
BTW I met a north Indian less than two weeks ago who would 'swear on Raam'
that Prabhakaran is dead. :-(
mahe...@aardvark.ucs.uoknor.edu
>>>However gross sacrifice of truth is what is condemned. HE WROTE THAT
>> *************
>>>LTTE'S LEADER WAS SHOT DEAD BY HIS DEPUTY MAHATHYA AND WENT ON
>> **************************************************************
>>>TO DESCRIBE THE FUNERAL PROCESSION OF THE LTTE LEADER.
>> *****************************************************
>>>I think this is very venomous. A journalist should always
>>>make sure that he is a credible source of information or should not
>>>hesitate to apologize if some events turn out to be false.
>>>Journals that are not credible are only good for cleaning and parcel
>>>wrapping purposes.
>>>
>>>Meenan Vishnu
>
> newspapers and Tamil magazines. Right after this report LTTE issued a
> statement (denying this report) which appeared in The Hindu. Even then many
> beleived in the report given by IPKF.
>
> untruths about LTTE and the above report was one of them. In fact, it was CHO
> in his own astrological wisdom predicted the split of LTTE due to interior
> power struggle and Pirabhakaran, Maathaiya and Kittu killing each other.
> Probably IPKF bought this story from CHO himself and made itself a fool. If
> CHO portrayed LTTE merely as terrorists, he could be considered as honest and
> wise because LTTE does use terrorism as one of their weapons in the freedom
> struggle. In stead, he published several fabricated stories about LTTE as
> totally undisciplined and uncivilized barbarians who indulge in raping Tamil
> women etc.
Sorry I coudn't control myself from saying a few words. I think along with
CHO all other tamil magazines were fooled by sombody. They might have been
fooled most probably by LTTE. Only an Idiot will publish such a wrong story
to make fool of themselves and it is certain that it was not fabricated by
anti LTTE press. No way. I mean the "Prabhakaran killed by Mathaya" story.
I think the THINAMALAR newspaper first published that story and proudly
claimbed that they were the one to publish it first and printed half page
of carbage explaining how they got that news.
The reason for my saying that LTTE might have fabricated the story
was that at that time LTTE was telling the truth and the tamil press
was telling the wrong story.
As regsrds the IPKF buying the story from CHO I simply dont
believe it. An army intelligence buying a story from a bald headed individual.
No way. CHO might have predicted a split but I dont remember reading it. But
he might have written something of that sort after fooled by the Prabhakaran's
death story.
I dont see any reason for any one person to take blame or
responsibilityfor that story. When I was in TN I didn't miss an
issue of TUKLAQ and I dontremember CHO writing big essays about LTTE
on things like rape etc. But he was against LTTE all the
time even from the very begining. He wrote against LTTE very much during the
IPKF period. I dont remember any fabricated story like LTTE raping tamil
women etc.
I remember reading an article in which he explained in detail
about "How LTTE reduced the land controled by tamil in the east by completely
eliminating all the other militant organizations. It included graphs and maps
showing all sort of details. The prime reason according to that article was
that LTTE was comparitively weaker than EPRLF in the east."
One can have different opnions about LTTE's terrorism because they
> killed other political activists, human rights activists, innocent Singalese in
> a few cases. But they are much more disciplined and freedom-motivated than the
> Indian government, media and the urban intelligentia try to project them.
>
> One thing we Indians fail to recognize is that the SL Tamils have a nation
> under the control of their LTTE military rule (which was the result of SL
> government's state sponsored terrorism). All the Srilankan Tamils may not
> support LTTE as we do not support Cong (I) and the Iraq people do not support
> Saddam Hussein. Just because their nation is not recognized by the
> international bodies, Eezham does not cease to exist. We can debate over the
> credibility of LTTE or Pirabhakaran to rule their people as we can do with PVNR
> or Saddam Hussein. In stead, if we choose to call the SL Tamils' government as
> terrorist, then the SL Tamils will talk against our government. Just like our
> patriotism does not allow us bear insulting our country and government, they
> also do not bear it. There is no end for this because India and Pakistan have
> the same problems for last 40 plus years.
>
>
> S. Sankarapandi
I think comparing LTTE with Saddam Hussein is OK. But not with PVNR.
The strong president of India can be defeated in the ballet and his Arjun Singh
doesn't have to worry for his death. I close with two points which I think is
right.
TAMILS PROBLEM:
_______________
I want a peaceful solution for tamils problem. I dont support an independent
state for Tamils. But I dont have any right to take such a decision since
I am not a Elam Tamilian. But we also have to see the reality. There are
1000's of cases of oppression all over the world and I dont see any possibility
of anybody getting a country for them on ethnical grounds. If you take Kurds,
Dibetians, serbs in Bosnia(they may be killers but why dont you give a seperate
nation for them where they are majority. After all you splitted the land on
ethnical grounds for yourselves) etc. There is no specific reason needed for
anybody asking for a seperate land. Indians didn;t oppress Kashmeri muslims
and gave special status to prevent other indians buying farm land from them
and Punjab Sikhs were not discriminated. This is before they started their
strugggle for seperation. Now I feel there are some problems.
But Sri_lankan tamils suffered and had genuine reason for their struggle.
They were oppressed, killed , discriminated and all sort of bad things were
inflicted upon them. Their suffering is far severe than Thibetian's and may be
equal to that of Kurds. Kurds has a strong oppent all around them with no
supporters. But Elam Tamils had a strong neighbour and a weak oppenent and
now that has changed.
LTTE has made terrible mistakes by eliminating all the rival tamil groups and
by killing RAJIV GANDHI. Some people may say Indian Govt is lying about Rajiv's
death. But I believe that Rajiv was killed by LTTE. No doubt. But we have
to see what can be done. Sri-lankan govt for no reason going to give give
any sort of autonomy for Tamils. LTTE can not achieve anything positive on
their own even though their strength is unbelievable.
Now India instead of blaming LTTE should try to do something positive. They
should pressurise Sri-lankan govt through UN to get the tamils a complete
autonomy for the combined land of north and east. Even Prabharan has hinted
on talking with the Govt in his recent interview to BBC. Full tamil police,
tamil army, stoping settlements, etc etc. I think this is the only possibility
if somebody thinks of an indepent state I have to tell it is not going
to happen and the suffering will continue for ever. But it is not for me to
decide.
If LTTE had conquered the whole Sri-lanka and with his military power crushed
the sri-lankan military everybody would have recognised it after initial
opposition. But the reality is it may never achieve it. So neighbouring
countries will try to do which is best for everybodies interest.
Tamil Govt:
Only a democratic govt should rule any land. It is the best and it has a check
in every four years. No body has to fear for death if they have to say anything
against somebody.
Prabhukumar Ganapathy (PK)
>>
>>Finally about LTTE, I think that Cho has always had
>>*India's and Indian Tamils interests* in
>>his heart - and that is what I admire
>>in him,
>>
>>Sridhar Vembu
>>ve...@ee.princeton.edu
>
>
>The principle that it is IMMORAL to support an anti-government
>militants of a friendly neighbor is indeed commendable and I too
>think so.
>
>However gross sacrifice of truth is what is condemned. HE WROTE THAT
>LTTE'S LEADER WAS SHOT DEAD BY HIS DEPUTY MAHATHYA AND WENT ON
>TO DESCRIBE THE FUNERAL PROCESSION OF THE LTTE LEADER.
>I think this is very venomous. A journalist should always
>make sure that he is a credible source of information or should not
>hesitate to apologize if some events turn out to be false.
>Journals that are not credible are only good for cleaning and parcel
>wrapping purposes.
>
>Meenan Vishnu
Ramachandran
|> In article <1993Mar28.2...@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>, ssan...@magnus.acs.
|> >>>However gross sacrifice of truth is what is condemned. HE WROTE THAT
Lotsa stuff deleted
|> I think comparing LTTE with Saddam Hussein is OK. But not with PVNR.
|> The strong president of India can be defeated in the ballet and his Arjun Singh
^^^^^^^^^
|> doesn't have to worry for his death. I close with two points which I think is
|> right.
|>
Another Technical Error ???? PVNR is the PM of India and not the
president. And only the PM can be defeated by the ballot (I think
spelling is right) and the president can be "defeated" only by
impeachment :->
Other stuff has been deleted because I either have no comments or
agree with you.
Have fun.
Ranjith Ravindiran Suresh
place would have turned into another Afghanistan. It was tragic to say
the least to see hundreds of Tamil youths die at the hands of fellow
Tamils. Most of the blame goes to the self-serving leaders of these
various groups. If you look into how they were formed and nurtured, it
becomes clear as to whether they were working truely for our interests
or someone else's(namely RAW). Only PLOT's leader can be considered
'independent.' Many of PLOT's cadres later joined LTTE.
Some groups were nothing more than pressure groups created by India to
act for its interests.
Anyway, I agree with the rest of things. In retrospect, whether LTTE or
someone else killed Rajiv, it has been counterproductive to our real
interests. India could have been accountable in some other 'acceptable'
manner for the crimes IPKF committed. Still(don't flame me), Rajiv's
death introduced fundamental changes in India's economic policies for
better. PVNR and Mammohan Singh(sp?) have instituted the type of changes
that should have taken place in the 70s atleast. Many of India's current
problems could have been avoided.
You are correct in what you foresee for Eelam Tamils. Seperatism is not
a necessity, only a last alternative. U.N should intervene to bring
about a just solution that is acceptable to all. If needed, all parties
to the conflict should be pressured by all means to achieve that end.
People on the ground just can't take it any more. India can play a
contructive role in this area if it choses to do so. It will certainly
go a long way in healing many of the open wounds among Eelam Tamils.
Suresh
Ranjith Ravindiran Suresh
>someone else killed Rajiv, it has been counterproductive to our real
>interests. India could have been accountable in some other 'acceptable'
'held' should be infront of 'accountable.
Meenan Vishnu
>Regarding militant groups other than LTTE. Had they survived, the whole
>place would have turned into another Afghanistan. It was tragic to say
>the least to see hundreds of Tamil youths die at the hands of fellow
>Tamils. Most of the blame goes to the self-serving leaders of these
>various groups.
[stuff deleted]
>Suresh
I was one of those who was very bitter about the killing of fellow
Tamil cadres by the LTTE. I had many of my grade 4 classmates in
TELO and they used to write to me when I was in South Africa.
However, it is true (for example read MGR the man and the myth) that
India tried to decimate LTTE with the help of TELO and EPRLF.
LTTE fortunately has very good intellegence wing (again mentioned
in the above book). They heard about the extra of group of TELO
that was trained by India to destroy LTTE once and for all. But
before they arrived in Eelam, LTTE acted quite fast. TELO's
internal divisions (thaas' group and rest) was a boon to the LTTE.
Anyway it was sad to see 100's of Tamil youth die in the hands of
fellow fighters.
The story of EPRLF is the same. However, this time LTTE did not
kill anyone. They disarmed EPRLF without any bloodshed.
It was at this time that India decided to destroy LTTE by itself
and came to SL under the pretex of an accord which was signed
without consulting any Tamils (the affected people). With IPKF
the specially trained group of TELO returned to TE. Also IPKF
rearmed the EPRLF with sophisticated weapons. However, IPKF
wanted the LTTE to surrender its arms. LTTE surrendered part
of its stockpile (about 40%). The entire runway of Palaly airport
was filled with LTTE's weapons surrenderd to the IPKF!
The TELO and the EPRLF groups worked systematically to destroy
anyone sympathetic to the LTTE with the help of IPKF. They
even worked as pimps for the IPKF officers. LTTE had to withdrew to
the jungle of MaNal aaru and Mullaiththeevu. This provided them
with great protection that many of the LTTE cadres wanted their bodies
to be buried in Manal aaru jungle when they die in gratitude of
its protection.
The misbehaviour of TELO and EPRLF made them very unpopular and when
IPKF left for good, LTTE wasted no time to finish them off. The
Tamil people did not care at all this time. (In the previous time,
the people, esp places like Karainagar, physically prevented the
LTTE from killing fellow Tamils and negotiated the surrender of
TELO!)
The other groups such as PLOTE killed themselves due to faction
fightings within itself and its destruction has nothing to do with
the LTTE.
So that is the story of "other groups".
I will write about TULF and LTTE in a separate posting.
Meenan Vishnu
Ramesh Vaidhyanathan
|>
|> The principle that it is IMMORAL to support an anti-government
|> militants of a friendly neighbor is indeed commendable and I too
|> think so.
|>
|> However gross sacrifice of truth is what is condemned. HE WROTE THAT
|> LTTE'S LEADER WAS SHOT DEAD BY HIS DEPUTY MAHATHYA AND WENT ON
|> TO DESCRIBE THE FUNERAL PROCESSION OF THE LTTE LEADER.
|> I think this is very venomous. A journalist should always
I remember reading the following in Thuglak `kElvi-bathil' section
during that period:
Q: What are your comments on Pirabakaran's death?
A: There are conflicting reports on this matter. So I can not comment
till the picture is clear.
I do not remember if anything like you said has appeared in Thuglak.
Could you please post the contents of the article you are mentioning?
(or the Thuglak issue # in which it appeared?).
Thanks.
-Ramesh, V.
|>
|> Meenan Vishnu
Meenan Vishnu
As I wrote earlier it is one of the August 1989 issue.
Sorry I do not have a copy with me now.
>-Ramesh, V.
Meenan Vishnu
swaminathan,kashi r
>Something else about Cho: a distortionist and a RSS
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>sympathizer. He's a 'uTpakaivAr' as far as real Tamil issues go.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
>Suresh
Why bother using all these adjectives and complicate the
classification of the Tamizhs. I thought you have only two classes
of tamizhs. uTpakaivAr and non-brahmins.
William Eunen Tiao
I am a college student and am doing a research project on homosexual
civil and human rights across the world. One of my professors is giving
a speech on this subject at an international conference on gay and lesbian
rights and will use the information that I am gathering for his talk. This
questionnaire is to help me narrow down what kind of information I should be
looking for. Anyone who is kind enough to respond to this questionnaire
should be rest assured that your identity will remain confidential and will
only be known by myself. Those who wish to reply anonymously may do so as
long as I may be able to contact you later on for follow-up questions. This
applies to all who will answer this questionnaire. Thank you for your time.
For those who do respond, I will probably have follow up questions which I
will post to you directly or on the newsgroup - whichever you prefer.
Thank you very much for your assistance.
--------
Personal Background
1. Age
2. City and Country you currently reside in
3. Do you identify yourself as: gay, straight, lesbian, bisexual, other
4. male or female
5. Educational background: graduate level, college, high school, etc.
6. Current or intended occupation
Questionnaire
1. Are you aware of any gay-rights organziations?
Do you belong to any gay-rights organizations?
If you responded yes to either of the above questions, is/are this/these
organization(s) overt or covert?
2. Do you have any gay friends or acquaintances?
If so, approximately how many?
3. Do you know what the laws against homosexuality are in your country (if
there are any)?
4. If homosexuality is considered a crime in your country, what is the
punishment?
5. What is your personal attitude towards homosexuality - is it right or wrong?
Should it be legal or illegal?
6. What do you feel is the general societal attitude towards homosexuals?
7. Are gays very open in your society? (do they hold hands or kiss in
public, etc.)
8. If the laws against homosexuals were repealed right now, do you think many
more people would "come out of the closet?"
9. Do you know of any gay newspapers - if so, which one(s)?
10. Are gays allowed in the military? Do you think they should be?
11. Are there places for homosexuals to consort? i.e.- bars, discotheques,
support groups, etc.
12. Do you have any personal experiences of being harassed because you are
gay or because you have gay friends? Please describe?
13. Is there any pressure to get married at a certain age, especially by
family and friends?
14. Does religion play a large part in your attitude or your society's attitude
towards gays and lesbians? If so, how?
Thanks again for your cooperation. I will be emailing those who respond within
the next two weeks.
