Tamil Name for my child
pava
Please email me
pa...@rocketmail.com
Saravana Kumar
Falc2199
>I am looking for a tamil name for my child
It really all depends on your religon doesn't it? I speak Tamil but I have an
Arabic name cuz I am Muslim, most Chrsitian Tamils I know have European names
like Peter and Charles.
Falc
sy...@hotmail.com
ksv...@worldnet.att.net wrote:
> pava wrote:
> >
> > I am looking for a tamil name for my child
> >
> > pa...@rocketmail.com
> go to this site
> http://www.angelfire.com/me/thaya/link.html
> & in that check out in tamil page.
>
there is this name which strikes me immtly
Kunthavai - The character in Kalki's Ponniyin Selvan
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SOURCINGUS
I love the following names
for girls: Swarnalatha, Ponmani, Karpagavalli.
for boys: Meganathan, Muthukumaran, Vikraman.
good luck:)
Revathi
Sridhar J Naudhan
( I am not sure if they are "suththa Thamizh", though.)
Male : Manivannan, Kumaran, Madhavan
Female : Anjali, Nandhini, Kuzhali, Madhavi, Vedavalli, Bhuvana.
Cheers!
--
Sridhar
"Tamasoma jyotirgamaya"
(From darkness lead me to light - Hindu prayer)
Meenaradchagan Vishnu
Here are some pure Tamil names for boys along with their meanings:
kaNiyan - mathmatician
vayan, vayavari, vayavan, vayaman -- the strong one
thakai, thakkan, thakavOn, thakkaNan -- the accomplished one
viyan -- the surpricing one
Ori -- the thinker
senni -- another name of king Chozan, lit the great one.
pekan -- name of a Tamil king.
vaLavan -- the wealthy one
(these names are suggested by Prof. Selvakumar of University of Waterloo)
Meenan Vishnu
V.C.Vijayaraghavan
> Here are some pure Tamil names for boys along with their meanings:
>
> kaNiyan - mathmatician
> vayan, vayavari, vayavan, vayaman -- the strong one
> thakai, thakkan, thakavOn, thakkaNan -- the accomplished one
> viyan -- the surpricing one
> Ori -- the thinker
> senni -- another name of king Chozan, lit the great one.
> pekan -- name of a Tamil king.
> vaLavan -- the wealthy one
>
These names may be "pure" Tamil names, but I have never come across in Madras
Telephone directory or any other Telephone directory in Tamilnadu. Nor have I
come across these names in any of the public figures in Tamilnadu in the last
30 years.
What is the point in "pure" tamil names when they are not used at all?
Mani M. Manivannan
>Meenaradchagan Vishnu wrote:
>
>> Here are some pure Tamil names for boys along with their meanings:
>These names may be "pure" Tamil names, but I have never come across in
Madras
>Telephone directory or any other Telephone directory in Tamilnadu. Nor have
I
>come across these names in any of the public figures in Tamilnadu in the
last
>30 years.
>
>What is the point in "pure" tamil names when they are not used at all?
Because they sound sweet, pronouncable to a Tamil, more familiar than names
from some other language, reminds the parents and the child of the Tamil
heritage, and honestly is the business of the parents.
I don't know about you, but I never took the Telephone directory to be a
representative sample of people of India. If you poll the people in the
phone books of Tamil Nadu, you may even find that a majority of them don't
even speak Tamil at home.
I am sure you have seen some people in Chennai go out of their way to pick a
North Indian name because it sounds "cool" even though they cannot pronounce
it or understand the meaning. They would think that Rakkappan sounds like a
low class name and pick Rakesh.
There was a student in Guindy Engineering College who had the beautiful name
"Gangai Konda Chozhan." People who had never met him instantly assumed that
he must belong to an SC/ST group "because no self-respecting upper caste
Tamil would choose a name like that!" And that is a shame!
Mani M. Manivannan
Fremont, CA, USA.
V.C.Vijayaraghavan
> V.C.Vijayaraghavan wrote in message
>
> >Meenaradchagan Vishnu wrote:
> >
> >> Here are some pure Tamil names for boys along with their meanings:
>
> >These names may be "pure" Tamil names, but I have never come across in
> Madras
> >Telephone directory or any other Telephone directory in Tamilnadu. Nor have
> I
> >come across these names in any of the public figures in Tamilnadu in the
> last
> >30 years.
> >
> >What is the point in "pure" tamil names when they are not used at all?
>
> Because they sound sweet, pronouncable to a Tamil, more familiar than names
> from some other language, reminds the parents and the child of the Tamil
> heritage, and honestly is the business of the parents.
You have one particular idea of "heritage" and pass it on as The
Heritage. The
sweetness or otherwise of a word is subjective. What you may find sweet
may
sound odd to somebody. Again, when you say "a Tamil" , you have an
abstract
Tamil in your mind and not a real Tamil. A real tamil is one whose
mother-tongue
is Tamil. There are about 80 million people in the world whose mother
tongue is
Tamil and they all know their heritage and ALL their children's names
are
representatives of tamil heritage and other parental preferences. So
there is
no need for somebody to say 'this is all wrong and not derived from
"Tamil"
heritage. For example take a Tamil by the name of Abul Jainulabdeen
Pakir Kalam.
Does he not supposed to know his heritage becuase both Abul and Kalam
are
arabic words. A Tamil politician named his son as Stalin. Another
well-known Tamil politician named his adopted son Gauthaman. Do you mean
to say he did not know his heritage? Does Stalin and Gauthaman accord
with your notions of "Tamil Heritage". For those who don't know, the
first tamil politician is Karunanidhi and the second one Annadurai.
This whole business of telling people
what their heritage should be, sounds arrogant.
>
>
> I don't know about you, but I never took the Telephone directory to be a
> representative sample of people of India. If you poll the people in the
> phone books of Tamil Nadu, you may even find that a majority of them don't
> even speak Tamil at home.
OK, I agree ,if you take Madras telephone directory, theer are lots of
non-tamils listed under that. But still you can weed out names like
Shah, Patel,
etc.Even here there is a difficulty. A name like Solomon Abraham, just
by
looking at the name you can never say he is a Tamil or not. Even looking
at the
phone directory rips apart your theory of "pure" "sweet-sounding"
"heritage-conscious" names. But telephone directories are generally
representative of the names prevalant among the people. I agree madras
is a more
cosmopolitan place. Then take phone directory of .say, Thirumullaivayil
and
study the distribution of names. Even there you will not know what do to
with names like Mohammed Rahim or James Nelson
Looked at any way, your theory that some names are good for "Tamil
Heritage" is bunkum and speaks of cultural arrogance.
>
>
> I am sure you have seen some people in Chennai go out of their way to pick a
> North Indian name because it sounds "cool" even though they cannot pronounce
> it or understand the meaning. They would think that Rakkappan sounds like a
> low class name and pick Rakesh.
It is true due to the influence of Hindi films people sometimes go for
names like Rakesh, but hindi films have affected not only names but
other areas too. 30 years back, on the streets of Madras you won't find
any girl wearing Shalwar kameez.Most girls used to wear only Dhavani.
Now 90% of the school or colege going girls in madras wear north indian
dress. 30 years back hardly anybody ate korma or parota or samosa or
chicken biryani. Now these north indian items are all the rage. But you
cannot stop cultural changes becuase they don't accord with your ideas ,
prejudices and pre-concieved notions of "pure Tamil heritage". To hell
with "pure Tamil heritage".
Regarding pronouncing pure tanil words, I have heard a AIR Tamil
newsreader say Veshavendan instead of Vezhavendan, giving a ridiculous
twist to the name because he could not pronounce 'zha' I have come
across a number of tamilians who cannot 'zha' properly. Even among Tamil
speakers there is wide variation in pronounciations of Tamil words as
well as non-tamil words.
>
>
> There was a student in Guindy Engineering College who had the beautiful name
> "Gangai Konda Chozhan." People who had never met him instantly assumed that
> he must belong to an SC/ST group "because no self-respecting upper caste
> Tamil would choose a name like that!" And that is a shame!
How do you know "People who had never met him instantly assumed that he
must belong to an SC/ST group"?
From all this , please don't assume I am against tamil names. I have
come across nice Tamil names like Sekkizhar or Parimelazhagar or
Manimekalai. If anybody, tamil or non-Tamil, is impressed with Tamil
literature they can name their wards from Tamil literarure. But what I
AM
against is saying some names are not "true and pure" Tamil heritage and
some other words which hardly anybody uses or knows, as names are the
"pure and true" Tamil heritage.
Mani M. Manivannan
>What is the point in "pure" tamil names when they are not used at all?
>A real tamil is one whose mother-tongue is Tamil.
>This whole business of telling people
>what their heritage should be, sounds arrogant.
Exactly. So why do you butt in when people choose to name their children in
their language? Why do you care if they are in use or not? Why should you
tell me if my concept of my heritage is right or wrong? You have every
right to name your children William Jefferson Clinton or Mao Tse Tung and
claim that it is your heritage. For all I know it might well be. This
desire to seek one's roots is common to all the people. Why else would a
retired I.A.S. officer in Mylapore be furiously working to prove that Indus
Valley Civilization is really Sarasvathi Aryan Civilization? If you don't
care for my concept of my heritage, keep away from it. Why would you want
to preach to me?
As for Arabic or Latinate names, they indicate a heritage too. They just
don't have anything to do with the Tamil heritage - instead they indicate a
religious heritage that is more important to the people who choose those
names. I don't see anything wrong with that.
>Looked at any way, your theory that some names are good for "Tamil
>Heritage" is bunkum and speaks of cultural arrogance.
Wait a minute here! If I think that my mother-tongue is sweet, it speaks of
cultural arrogance? And if you preach to me that I shouldn't use names
because you haven't heard of them that is not cultural arrogance? Indeed!!!
Ever heard the following lines?
"chen-thamiz n-aatenum pOthinilE
inpath thEn van-thu paayuthu kaathinilE,
engkaL than-thaiyar n-aatenum pEchchinilE
oru chakthi piRakkuthu mUchchinilE"
"yaamaRin-tha mozikaLilE thamiz mozi pOl inithaavathu engkum kaaNOm"
>cannot stop cultural changes becuase they don't accord with your ideas ,
>prejudices and pre-concieved notions of "pure Tamil heritage". To hell
>with "pure Tamil heritage".
If these statements don't espouse cultural arrogance, I am not sure what
would?
>> There was a student in Guindy Engineering College who had the beautiful
name
>> "Gangai Konda Chozhan." People who had never met him instantly assumed
that
>> he must belong to an SC/ST group "because no self-respecting upper caste
>> Tamil would choose a name like that!" And that is a shame!
>
>How do you know "People who had never met him instantly assumed that he
>must belong to an SC/ST group"?
Because, he was a batchmate of mine and I have heard those obnoxious
comments from my classmates. It was a sport in college cafeterias in those
days to pick a name on the college campus and speculate about his caste,
intelligence, IQ and whether or not that person came through "merit" or not.
>From all this , please don't assume I am against tamil names. I have
>come across nice Tamil names like Sekkizhar or Parimelazhagar or
>Manimekalai. If anybody, tamil or non-Tamil, is impressed with Tamil
>literature they can name their wards from Tamil literarure. But what I
>AM
>against is saying some names are not "true and pure" Tamil heritage and
>some other words which hardly anybody uses or knows, as names are the
>"pure and true" Tamil heritage.
Another example of "cultural arrogance." So, do we need to get the
permission of Vijayaraghavan and Co., to decide on what is our heritage?
Why are so upset that some of us seek to glorify our ancient heritage? Does
that threaten you? We are not saying anything about names like
"Vijayaraghavan."
Look, the Indian family is large. We have multiple heritages. We celebrate
and honor all of them. Our identity is a complex one because of our
history. Each of us has the liberty to choose to identify with one or more
or all of our heritages. There are enough sources available for Hindu
names, Islamic names, Christian names etc. But there aren't any available
for ancient Tamil heritage. And for those who choose to claim that heritage
and celebrate it, it is as important as any religious and cultural heritage.
I respect an advaitist Hindu's right to honor and seek vedic heritage and
names. I respect a muslim's right to honor and celebrate his Islamic
heritage. And I respect a Christian's right to celebrate his heritage.
And yes, I expect * OTHERS * to respect the values and heritage that I
choose to honor. It is the attitude that mocks and denigrates our Tamil
heritage that really smacks of "cultural arrogance" that you claim to abhor.
Mani M. Manivannan
>You are misrepresenting the events. Somebody wanted some tamil
>names to name a child. MV cme up with a list of names and his reason and
you
>concurred with his reasoning was that they represented some 'true' Tamil
>heritage.
>My first objection to that list was that I have not seen those names
>being used as represented by the frequency in the Telephone Directories in
>Tamilnadu. My second objection to your reason is that you cannot say some
names
>represent 'true' Tamil heritage and others by implication represent
'false'
>tamil heritage. My argument is with your reasoning, not with the person who
>wanted the names in the first place. Therefore you cannot say I am somehow
>objecting to people naming their children in Tamil. It is a travesty of
facts
"Travesty of facts" and "misrepresenting events!" Strong words indeed!
Did I say 'true' Tamil heritage? Here's your original question and my
response:
VCV: What is the point in "pure" tamil names when they are not used at
all?
Mani: Because they sound sweet, pronouncable to a Tamil, more familiar
than names
Mani: from some other language, reminds the parents and the child of the
Tamil
Mani: heritage, and honestly is the business of the parents.
Now who is misrepresenting events? You can look at my previous posts. Can
you find a single instance where I used "true" Tamil heritage.
I said that the names Meenan listed remind one of Tamil heritage. According
to Webster's it means Legacy, Inheritance, Tradition, Birthright (something
possessed as a result of one's natural situation or birth). That definition
fits quite nicely. This "true" Tamil heritage is a straw man that you have
put up.
>Why? If you post on the internet only namaes X,Y,Z are 'pure' and 'true'
Tamil
>heritage ....
>I am not preaching to you nor do I want to preach to you. But if you say
only
>names X,Y,Z are true tamil heritage, that is preaching and any nettor has
got a
>against you suggesting a completely unused name. If you simply say 'name X
is
>good becuase I like it', fair enough, I have nothing against it. But if you
say
>'name X is good because it represents pure Tamil heritage' that I find
>unacceptable especially considering the fact that it is not used.
I carefully reviewed all my posts on this subject and * I * never have used
the term "True Tamil heritage" even once. It is clearly a straw man
argument that you have invented.
>With all respects to Bharatiyar, I don't like the flowery and florid
language he
>uses. His style is somewhat archaic to me. It may be OK in1910, but for a
90s
>man like me, Bharatiyar is passe. However, I am digressing and let me not
get
>into discussing B now.
Well, Mr. 90s man, if you don't care much for Bharathiyar and dismiss his
1910 poetry, you may not care for Sangam poetry of early Christian Era.
Heritage to you may mean nothing. Then why invent a "true" Tamil heritage
vs "untrue" Tamil heritage argument that is being acted out entirely in your
mind?
>I am not suggesting to you anything about heritage, but I am against
something
>palmed offf as 'pure and true' heritage
There you go again! Where did I write about "pure and true" heritage?
If your original question was honest, I gave you an honest answer. If you
were merely curious why somebody would take the trouble to look up truly
ancient names and use them even though they have been out of use for
centuries, I gave you an honest answer. And I even compared it to the
attitude of the people who cherish their religious heritage. Whether you
like it or not, people will continue to name their children to celebrate
their cherished values, culture or religion. You may understand this and
walk away or think that this is silly and walk away. Instead, you choose to
put up straw man arguments and shoot them down. Why? What is it about
somebody wanting to choose pure Tamil names or somebody wanting to celebrate
their heritage, let us say even with flowery and florid language so
threatening to you?
Anonymous
>>Mr. V.C.Vijayaraghavan wrote:
>>>There was a student in Guindy Engineering College who had the beautiful name
>>>"Gangai Konda Chozhan." People who had never met him instantly assumed that
>>> he must belong to an SC/ST group "because no self-respecting upper caste
>>> Tamil would choose a name like that!" And that is a shame!
>>How do you know "People who had never met him instantly assumed that he
>>must belong to an SC/ST group"?
>
>Because, he was a batchmate of mine and I have heard those obnoxious
>comments from my classmates. It was a sport in college cafeterias in those
>days to pick a name on the college campus and speculate about his caste,
>intelligence, IQ and whether or not that person came through "merit" or not.
In 1976, when my brother was interviewed for Guindu Engg College, he was asked
stupid questions like which bus you took to come to college, how tall is LIC
building etc. Reason- he is a brahmin. Isn't that a shame, Mr Mani.
Anonymous.
V.C.Vijayaraghavan
> Mr. V.C.Vijayaraghavan wrote:
>
> >What is the point in "pure" tamil names when they are not used at all?
> >A real tamil is one whose mother-tongue is Tamil.
> >This whole business of telling people
> >what their heritage should be, sounds arrogant.
>
> Exactly. So why do you butt in when people choose to name their children in
> their language?
Who butted in? You are misrepresenting the events. Somebody wanted some tamil
names to name a child. MV cme up with a list of names and his reason and you
concurred with his reasoning was that they represented some 'true' Tamil
heritage. My first objection to that list was that I have not seen those names
being used as represented by the frequency in the Telephone Directories in
Tamilnadu. My second objection to your reason is that you cannot say some names
represent 'true' Tamil heritage and others by implication represent 'false'
tamil heritage. My argument is with your reasoning, not with the person who
wanted the names in the first place. Therefore you cannot say I am somehow
objecting to people naming their children in Tamil. It is a travesty of facts
> Why do you care if they are in use or not? Why should you
> tell me if my concept of my heritage is right or wrong?
Why? If you post on the internet only namaes X,Y,Z are 'pure' and 'true' Tamil
heritage, anybody has got a right to say it is narrow minded or very good as
the case may be. Anybody has got a right to reply to posts on the
internet.Secondly I have few minutes to spare to write these posts
> You have every
> right to name your children William Jefferson Clinton or Mao Tse Tung and
> claim that it is your heritage. For all I know it might well be. This
> desire to seek one's roots is common to all the people. Why else would a
> retired I.A.S. officer in Mylapore be furiously working to prove that Indus
> Valley Civilization is really Sarasvathi Aryan Civilization? If you don't
> care for my concept of my heritage, keep away from it. Why would you want
> to preach to me?
I am not preaching to you nor do I want to preach to you. But if you say only
names X,Y,Z are true tamil heritage, that is preaching and any nettor has got a
right to reply. Replies to your posts and analysis of what you write don't
amount to preaching. You don't have to be that defensive
> As for Arabic or Latinate names, they indicate a heritage too. They just
> don't have anything to do with the Tamil heritage - instead they indicate a
> religious heritage that is more important to the people who choose those
> names. I don't see anything wrong with that.
>
> >Looked at any way, your theory that some names are good for "Tamil
> >Heritage" is bunkum and speaks of cultural arrogance.
>
> Wait a minute here! If I think that my mother-tongue is sweet, it speaks of
> cultural arrogance? And if you preach to me that I shouldn't use names
> because you haven't heard of them that is not cultural arrogance?
You are taking it personally as if I am against YOU using any names. If somebody
asks for Tamil names to name a child, the most sensible thing is to say some
names which are prevalent and to some extent well-known. It is like if somebody
asks you some tamil dishes , you would start with sambar or rasm or idli or
dosai. You won't start with some obscure dishes which are rarely made like
seethapazham pachadi or palakkai sambar. Exactly the same with names. None of
the names given by MV I have come across in telephone directories, in the
scholl, college or among the public figures. Coming to think of it, I am not
against you suggesting a completely unused name. If you simply say 'name X is
good becuase I like it', fair enough, I have nothing against it. But if you say
'name X is good because it represents pure Tamil heritage' that I find
unacceptable especially considering the fact that it is not used. Since this is
a cultural forum, that attitude needs some replying
> Indeed!!!
> Ever heard the following lines?
>
> "chen-thamiz n-aatenum pOthinilE
> inpath thEn van-thu paayuthu kaathinilE,
> engkaL than-thaiyar n-aatenum pEchchinilE
> oru chakthi piRakkuthu mUchchinilE"
With all respects to Bharatiyar, I don't like the flowery and florid language he
uses. His style is somewhat archaic to me. It may be OK in1910, but for a 90s
man like me, Bharatiyar is passe. However, I am digressing and let me not get
into discussing B now.
> hey can name their wards from Tamil literarure. But what I
> >AM
> >against is saying some names are not "true and pure" Tamil heritage and
> >some other words which hardly anybody uses or knows, as names are the
> >"pure and true" Tamil heritage.
>
> Another example of "cultural arrogance." So, do we need to get the
> permission of Vijayaraghavan and Co., to decide on what is our heritage?
I am not suggesting to you anything about heritage, but I am against something
palmed offf as 'pure and true' heritage BTW, I am speaking only on my behalf
and not for anybody else. So , you can cut the 'Co'
> Why are so upset that some of us seek to glorify our ancient heritage? Does
> that threaten you? We are not saying anything about names like
> "Vijayaraghavan."
Thank you for the small mercies
V.C.Vijayaraghavan
> V.C.Vijayaraghavan wrote:
>
>
> Did I say 'true' Tamil heritage? Here's your original question and my
> response:
>
> VCV: What is the point in "pure" tamil names when they are not used at
> all?
>
> Mani: Because they sound sweet, pronouncable to a Tamil, more familiar
> than names
> Mani: from some other language, reminds the parents and the child of the
> Tamil
> Mani: heritage, and honestly is the business of the parents.
>
> Now who is misrepresenting events? You can look at my previous posts. Can
> you find a single instance where I used "true" Tamil heritage.
Right, you did not use the word 'true', but you did aquiese in the word
'pure'. I have been using 'pure' and 'true' as synonyms. You are saying
names kaNiyan, vayan, vayavari, vayavan, vayaman, thakai, thakkan,
thakavOn, thakkaNan, viyan, Ori, senni, pekan are
a)'pure' Tamil words
b)pronouncable to a Tamil
c)More familiar than names from other languages
d)reminds one of Tamil heritage.
Let us take some other Tamil names like Rajendran or Gnanasekaran.
Applying your criteria of good names i.e those names which help in the
business of the parents as defined by you, Rajendran and Gnanasekaran
are not
a) 'pure' Tamil words
b) pronouncable to a Tamil
c) Not familiar to Tamils since they are derived from Sanskrit.
d) does not remind one of Tamil heritage.
Mr.Manivannan, I can go only by what you write. Your writings show you
believe that there is a strong correalation between
a)'tamil purity' of a name i.e it's freedom from any Sanskrit or other
roots
b)familiarity to am ordinary Tamil
c)pronouncability to a Tamil and
d) it's Tamil heritage content, which you define as the business of
(Tamil) parents
Are you going to deny that this is not what you implied and are you
going to say it is all a figment of my imagination? You are free to do
so, but English language being what it is, one cannot avoid these
conclusions.
Mani M. Manivannan
>Mani M. Manivannan wrote:
>> Now who is misrepresenting events? You can look at my previous posts.
Can
>> you find a single instance where I used "true" Tamil heritage.
>
>Right, you did not use the word 'true', but you did aquiese in the word
>'pure'. I have been using 'pure' and 'true' as synonyms.
Be honest, Mr. Vijayaraghavan, don't you think there is a fundamental
difference between 'pure' Tamil word and 'true' Tamil heritage? You can
get linguistic evidence to identify if a word belongs to a language or not.
Of course one does not research the telephone directory to determine that.
If you do, you may conclude that Patel is an American name because it shows
up a lot in American phone books.
>Let us take some other Tamil names like Rajendran or Gnanasekaran.
>Applying your criteria of good names i.e those names which help in the
>business of the parents as defined by you, Rajendran and Gnanasekaran
>are not
>
>a) 'pure' Tamil words
>b) pronouncable to a Tamil
>c) Not familiar to Tamils since they are derived from Sanskrit.
>d) does not remind one of Tamil heritage.
You have interesting way of putting up straw man arguments Mr.
Vijayaraghavan. If I say A = B, * you * postulate a corrallary that says C
!= B and then challenge me to prove the corallary. Let us examine * your *
statement then.
For heavens sake Rajendran and Gnanasekara are not pure Tamil words, since
as you rightly say they are derived from Sanskrit! And no, they are not
pronouncable to a large number of Tamils who cannot pronounce the 'ja', 'sa'
and one of the aspirated 'ka's of Sanskrit in these names. It might come
out as rAsEnthiran and gnAnacEkaran. To somebody familiar with the Sanskrit
roots of these words, and that think that Sanskrit pronunciation must be
inviolable, the Tamil pronunciation will sound distinctly strange. As for
the meanings, I for instance don't know what sekaran really means.
Why restrict yourself only to these names? What about "Abul Jainulabdeen
Pakir Kalam?" I grew up not very far from Dr. Kalam's hometown. There were
(and still are I hope) a large number of muslims in the Ramanathapuram
district. Despite the constant interaction among us, we never managed to
get the pronunciation of the muslim names right. And I discovered that our
(Tamil) pronunciation of the Christian names are completely alien to the
ears of Americans and the British. And finally, you want the Tamil heritage
quotient of these names. At least Rajendran may remind one of the Great
Gangai Konda Chozhan, who took Rajendran as one of his titles. Can you tell
us how the name Gnanasekaran reminds you of Tamil heritage?
And Mr. Vijayaraghavan, we are rapidly converging on zero information
content in these exchanges and it is fruitless for me to continue to these
exchanges. If * you * have problems with notions of Tamil heritage that
differs from your idea of it, if you have problems with the 'florid'
language (of Bharathi or may be even Kamban), it is you who will have to
deal with the demons in your head. Celebrating Tamil heritage or cherishing
"florid" poetry is what some of us Tamils do. To us Sangam Tamil poetry
represents a pristine culture that is unique our soil. It does not matter
to us whether genetically we are descended from the poets of the Sangam. It
is irrelevant. We admire that culture, that civilization that at sometimes
seems far more mature than the present.
The words of Kanian Poongunranaar, Piciraandaiyaar, Kapilar echo across the
centuries in our hearts. While I cherish Thirukkural, Cilapathikaaram and
Manimekalai, the poems of Nayanmaars and Alwars, Kamban and Cekizhar, the
Sangam poetry will always have a special place in my heart. And you don't
have to feel alienated from it. Actually, if you don't like 'florid'
poetry, you may even like Sangam Tamil poetry. I am not sure if you are
familiar with any Tamil literature (your revulsion at Bharathi's 'florid'
poems may have pushed you away from Tamil literature). But if you get a
chance, try to get atleast the English translations by A.K. Ramanujan or
George Hart and you may even enjoy Sangam Tamil poetry.
And, please, don't be threatened by those that celebrate Tamil heritage. We
come from all walks of like. Some of us, like the 19th century Professor at
Madras Christian College Prof. V. K. Surya Narayana Sastri, are crazy
enough to change our names to 'pure' Tamil (he changed his to Parithi Mal
Kalaignar). That said, I exit from this thread and you can have the last
word on this.
Oh, I almost forgot. Mr. Anonymous, I don't answer postings from
'anonymous' persons. You may quibble that there is really no difference
between "Mr. Anonymous" and "Mr. Brahmin" and "Mr. Madurai Veeran." True to
a certain extent in that all are hiding their real identity. But at least
Madurai Veeran and Brahmin have the courage of their convictions and have
chosen nom-de-plumes that advertise a position. And Mr. Anonymous comes
across as a cowardly identity. What is the point of discussing anything
with such an identity? Frankly, I think that "Brahmin" and "Madurai Veeran"
identities advertise extreme positions that their real world counterparts
will have a very difficult time to match. Individuals are often very
complex and caricatures very seldom do justice to their real identity.
And a heartfelt thanks to all those who accepted my request and resisted the
urge to indulge in the usual brahmin-vs-non-brahmin bash until August 15th.
Paarkkalaam,
Mani M. Manivannan,
Fremont, CA, USA.
Raghu Seshadri
: the meanings, I for instance don't know what sekaran really means.
Shekhara derives from the word "shikhara" which
means head. Shikhara also has associated meanings
like "summit", and in this sense Tamil also uses
this word (Sikaram).
So Shekhara is someone who adorns his head with
something, for instance, Chandrashekhar is someone
whose head is adorned by the moon (Siva).
RS
V.C.Vijayaraghavan
> V.C.Vijayaraghavan wrote in message
> >Mani M. Manivannan wrote:
> And Mr. Vijayaraghavan, we are rapidly converging on zero information
> content in these exchanges and it is fruitless for me to continue to these
> exchanges.
The point is not so much the information content as much making visible the
assumptions we make consciously or subconsciously in our daily lives. The logic
of our thinking i.e. how we arrange the information in our head, is as much
important as the information content
> Celebrating Tamil heritage or cherishing
> "florid" poetry is what some of us Tamils do. To us Sangam Tamil poetry
> represents a pristine culture that is unique our soil. It does not matter
> to us whether genetically we are descended from the poets of the Sangam. It
> is irrelevant. We admire that culture, that civilization that at sometimes
> seems far more mature than the present.
>
> The words of Kanian Poongunranaar, Piciraandaiyaar, Kapilar echo across the
> centuries in our hearts. While I cherish Thirukkural, Cilapathikaaram and
> Manimekalai, the poems of Nayanmaars and Alwars, Kamban and Cekizhar, the
> Sangam poetry will always have a special place in my heart. And you don't
> have to feel alienated from it. Actually, if you don't like 'florid'
> poetry, you may even like Sangam Tamil poetry.
I have done my education in Tamil medium in school and I have studied Sangam
poetry. Personally I feel Sangam poetry is more sophisticated than what
followed it Poetry like Agananuru or Purananuru or kurunthokai are definitely
suffused with humanism which is rather lacking in the latter poetry with it's
excesses of religiousity.
Having said that, past is not my inspiration. I look to the present and future.
I like more matter of fact use of language and a straightforward expressions of
emotions with taut and packed sentences than a sentimental verbiage .I am afraid
Tamils have not yet got used to a businesslike use of langugae. For example, the
patti-manram discussions are extremely boring and silly. 6 months back , when I
was in India I visited a patti-manram discussion on "Who is better for a man
:wife or mother". The flowery and meaningless words you can see in these
pattimanram discussions or political debates at large. Sangam poetry , for all
it's sophistication, was a product of it's circumstance i.e. pastoral and an
incipient agricultural economy. Much water has flown in Cauvery after Sangam
age. So, Sangam age does not move me much at present
I can see you are a passionate lover of Tamil and I salute you. I hope you are
in a profession like teaching so that you can inspire youngsters with your love
for Tamil
> I am not sure if you are
> familiar with any Tamil literature (your revulsion at Bharathi's 'florid'
> poems may have pushed you away from Tamil literature). But if you get a
> chance, try to get atleast the English translations by A.K. Ramanujan or
> George Hart and you may even enjoy Sangam Tamil poetry.
>
> And, please, don't be threatened by those that celebrate Tamil heritage. We
> come from all walks of like. Some of us, like the 19th century Professor at
> Madras Christian College Prof. V. K. Surya Narayana Sastri, are crazy
> enough to change our names to 'pure' Tamil (he changed his to Parithi Mal
> Kalaignar). That said, I exit from this thread and you can have the last
> word on this.
>
The following is not me.
V.C.Vijayaraghavan
I don't think Shekara means or derived from Shikara. It simply means
ornament. Gnanasekaran simply means one whose knowledge is his/her
ornament
Raghu Seshadri
: Mani M. Manivannan wrote:
:
Both of you made several valid and weighty points,
and thanks to both for writing.
Is it possible that part of the dissent is
due to the ambiguity in the word "Tamil" ?
In English, it does double duty as both the
language and the people.
So when the original poster asked for "pure tamil"
names, did he mean "purely in the tamil language"
names, or did he mean "true tamil people's names" ?
(as in real people)
It seems to me that Mani is using the first
meaning, and Mr Vijayaraghavan is partial to the
second.
Depending on which meaning one adopts, the
respective argument makes sense. For instance,
"Gnanasekaran" is a tamil name in the second sense,
but not in the first. "valavan" is not a tamil
name in the second sense, but it is in the first.
RS
Meenaradchagan Vishnu
V.C.Vijayaraghavan <vi...@vossnet.co.uk> wrote:
>Meenaradchagan Vishnu wrote:
>
>> Here are some pure Tamil names for boys along with their meanings:
>>
>> vayan, vayavari, vayavan, vayaman -- the strong one
>> thakai, thakkan, thakavOn, thakkaNan -- the accomplished one
>> viyan -- the surpricing one
>> Ori -- the thinker
>> senni -- another name of king Chozan, lit the great one.
>> pekan -- name of a Tamil king.
>> vaLavan -- the wealthy one
>>
>
>Telephone directory or any other Telephone directory in Tamilnadu. Nor have I
>come across these names in any of the public figures in Tamilnadu in the last
>30 years.
>
Tamil names have changed a lot in the course of times. My father's
generation preferred Sanskrit names of gods. Our generation was also
like that. The present generation can be divided roughly into two
classes: meaningless-numerology-based-names vs. short Tamil names with
some meaning.
Example of the former are (don't laugh, these are actual names of Tamil
kids!): Dimishka, Zoryna (reminds me of sori naay), Ajay (reminds me of
ajeeraNam),...
Examples of the latter are given above. These names are new. That's
why you don't see them in telephone directories. In the telephone
directory, you are most likely to see any combination of the following
words:
(Rama, Krishna, Swamy, Nathan, etc)
Meenan Vishnu
Raghu Seshadri
: > Shekhara derives from the word "shikhara" which
: > means head. Shikhara also has associated meanings
: > like "summit", and in this sense Tamil also uses
: > this word (Sikaram).
: > So Shekhara is someone who adorns his head with
: > something, for instance, Chandrashekhar is someone
: > whose head is adorned by the moon (Siva).
: ornament. Gnanasekaran simply means one whose knowledge is his/her
: ornament
From my dictionary -
Shekhara, m.(from and connected with Shikhara) the top
or crown of the head - Kathasaritsagara; a chaplet or wreath
of flowers worn on the top of the head, crown, diadem, crest
- Harivamsa, Kamasutra; a peak, summit, crest - Rajatarangini;
the highest part, chief or head or best or most beautiful -
Ritusamhara.
RS
V.C.Vijayaraghavan
> like that. The present generation can be divided roughly into two
> classes: meaningless-numerology-based-names vs. short Tamil names with
> some meaning.
>
> Example of the former are (don't laugh, these are actual names of Tamil
> kids!): Dimishka, Zoryna (reminds me of sori naay), Ajay (reminds me of
> ajeeraNam),...
Dimishka and Zoryna seem to be characters from childrens comics or something from
Star Wars or Buck Rogers... What is the numerological derivation of Dimishka and
Zoryna?
kathiresu sellathurai
Meenaradchagan Vishnu <mvi...@bbcr.uwaterloo.ca> wrote in article
<9033194...@watserv4.uwaterloo.ca>...
> In article <35D4BB67...@vossnet.co.uk>,
> V.C.Vijayaraghavan <vi...@vossnet.co.uk> wrote:
> >Meenaradchagan Vishnu wrote:
> >
> >> Here are some pure Tamil names for boys along with their meanings:
> >>
> >> kaNiyan - mathmatician
> >> vayan, vayavari, vayavan, vayaman -- the strong one
> >> thakai, thakkan, thakavOn, thakkaNan -- the accomplished one
> >> viyan -- the surpricing one
> >> Ori -- the thinker
> >> senni -- another name of king Chozan, lit the great one.
> >> pekan -- name of a Tamil king.
> >> vaLavan -- the wealthy one
> >>
> >
> >These names may be "pure" Tamil names, but I have never come across in
Madras
> >Telephone directory or any other Telephone directory in Tamilnadu. Nor
have I
> >come across these names in any of the public figures in Tamilnadu in the
last
> >30 years.
> >
> >What is the point in "pure" tamil names when they are not used at all?
>
> Tamil names have changed a lot in the course of times. My father's
> generation preferred Sanskrit names of gods. Our generation was also
> like that. The present generation can be divided roughly into two
> classes: meaningless-numerology-based-names vs. short Tamil names with
> some meaning.
>
> Example of the former are (don't laugh, these are actual names of Tamil
> kids!): Dimishka, Zoryna (reminds me of sori naay), Ajay (reminds me of
> ajeeraNam),...
>