Pure dravidian words
Vendan Muruganandan
Hello again,
Me and my friend have been trying to find words used in daily-tamil that
is devoid of much sanskrit/foreign influence. We came across some..
bemaani, somaareee, kasmalam, bejaar are few of them. What is funny is,
these words are hardly spoken in srilanka, so i thought there must be some
sanskrit/indian influence to it but my friend is adamant that these are
pure dravidian words.
-vendan
are there many other words that are unique to madras.
mugil
let's us clean your name. Muruga_magizhchchi:-)!!
Secondly almost 9 out of 10 diaspora Elam Tamils
like Sanskrit sounding names. They even pay money
to get their names. And they are adamant too that
kurshika, finsihkika, deepsjika, aarthi, malini
nerish, keruish, mahish.purish are Pure Tamil
names.
To be constructive I shall get back to you.
A friend was suggested aayiram peyarkaL book
written by a Tamil scholar years ago.
|> http://www.au.ac.th/~u3716274
K. Srinivasan
In article <534kfr$2...@home.au.ac.th> u371...@au.ac.th (Vendan Muruganandan) writes:
> Hello again,
>Me and my friend have been trying to find words used in daily-tamil that
>is devoid of much sanskrit/foreign influence. We came across some..
>bemaani, somaareee, kasmalam, bejaar are few of them. What is funny is,
>these words are hardly spoken in srilanka, so i thought there must be some
>sanskrit/indian influence to it but my friend is adamant that these are
>pure dravidian words.
> -vendan
>are there many other words that are unique to madras.
These are not only unique to Madras, but are recent (30 years) enhancement to
enrich the Tamil language with swear words.
benaani - beymaan (cheat) Hindi/Urdu/Persian.
kasmalam - Sanskrit (excreta of kas)
bejaar - commonly used in Kannada
somaari - derived from sOmbEri (Tamil)
Raghu Seshadri
Mr Srinivasan writes -
: >Me and my friend have been trying to find words used in daily-tamil that
: >is devoid of much sanskrit/foreign influence. We came across some..
: >bemaani, somaareee, kasmalam, bejaar are few of them. What is funny is,
: >these words are hardly spoken in srilanka, so i thought there must be some
: >sanskrit/indian influence to it but my friend is adamant that these are
: >pure dravidian words.
: > -vendan
: >are there many other words that are unique to madras.
: These are not only unique to Madras, but are recent (30 years) enhancement to
: enrich the Tamil language with swear words.
: benaani - beymaan (cheat) Hindi/Urdu/Persian.
: kasmalam - Sanskrit (excreta of kas)
: bejaar - commonly used in Kannada
: somaari - derived from sOmbEri (Tamil)
Bejaar is from Urdu as well. I suspect
the root word is bezaroor, meaning "useless".
Kasmalam simply means "dirty" in Sanskrit.
RS
Joe Croos
I have heard a cuss word: saavu (death) kiraaki. What is the origin
of kiraaki? Also, I have seen kiraaki being used to mean a victim.
BTW, kasmalam is sometimes prnounced as kasmaalam (kasmAlam), right?
nanri pandithargalE, Joe C.
Raghu Seshadri
-From: Joe Croos <cro...@westatpo.westat.com>
-I have heard a cuss word: saavu (death) kiraaki. What is the origin
-of kiraaki? Also, I have seen kiraaki being used to mean a victim.
Kraaki is from the Sanskrit "graahaka",
which means a person who is carried,
who is borne by a carriage. This meaning
is consistent with the usage of the
taxi and rickshaw drivers in Madras,
who use this word in the same sense.
Ofcourse the cuss word is slang, an
extension of the original meaning.
-BTW, kasmalam is sometimes prnounced as kasmaalam (kasmAlam), right?
Right.
-nanri pandithargalE, Joe C.
:-)
Now it is my turn -
What is the correct response to
nanri in Tamil ?
RS
Anusha Ramanan
Raghu Seshadri wrote:
>
> Now it is my turn -
>
> What is the correct response to
> nanri in Tamil ?
>
> RS
I feel (and usually use), 'paravAyillai' for it. I see the Chinese too
use the equivalent. But, if it's too formal, 'kuRippidath thEvai
illai'(Don't mention) may do. (But, what about, 'varavETkiREn.'=Welcome)
Just an opinion.
Anu Ram.
Shankar Iyer
In <53lpe3$q...@hkpu01.polyu.edu.hk> Anusha Ramanan <Ram...@bigfoot.com>
writes:
>
>Anu Ram.
----------------------------------------
SAIRAM. The options above, while nice, seem somewhat forced
translations
to the English equivalents. IMHV, some other good Tamil options may be
'Nanru' or 'Nalladu' (appropriate for situations where the one
thanked is a senior/superior)
'Makizhchi' or 'mikka makizhchi' (as a more generally applicable
response.
When being thanked by a senior/superior, an option like 'ungalluku paNi
cheivadu yen pERu'.
SAIRAM. SAI 10/11/96
C.R. Selvakumar
In article <53eone$7...@hpindda.cup.hp.com>,[..]
>: kasmalam - Sanskrit (excreta of kas)
>
No, I don't think it is a Sanskrit word. In Sanskrit it might
be a borrowed Tamil/Dravidian word.
In Tamil kasamaalam means 'dirt'. But it can also mean
'smoke' and I think because it can be split as 'kasa + maalam.
( a similar word is maaymaalam meaning 'pretence , cheating'; and
maalam means 'that which changes, confuses, - formless[*])
The word kasamaalam does not necessarily mean only a
'dirty fellow' in all situations. It can also mean in many places
'a lousy fellow with no firm ideas or lousy confused idiot'
The word kasadu means 'dirt', 'that which stays at the bottom',
'dirty sediment', flaw'.
'kasadan' means 'uneducated person or a criminal or one who had
committed an offence'
ThiruvaLLuvar uses 'kaRka kasadu aRa' where 'kasadu aRa' means
'without flaws'
These are all authentic tamil words. The words kasadan, kayavan
are related and 'ya' > 'sa' is common in tamil.
kayaththal (being bitter) > kasaththal
and here again the meaning of 'disagreeable' taste cognates. kayakku
means kalakku as well as kasakku and we see 'ya' > sa'.
All these words are semantically closely related.
So when a Chennai fellow uses this word 'kasamaalam',
he is actually using a proper tamil word, though this is
often ridiculed by some.
[*] The word maalam can means a 'ghost' arising from the same
semantic sense of 'formless' 'changing form'. The word 'pEy'
meaning ghost also semantically means only 'changing form, formless'
'illusory'. 'pEyth_thEr' means mirage; 'pEyppaarvai' means
'confused perspective/understanding'. In these words the first
part 'pEy' doesn't mean 'ghost' but it means the root sense
of 'formless, changing from, illusory'.
>
>RS
selvaa
P.S. Similarly the word 'poosai' is a pure tamil word and it is not
from poojai. It is poosai > poojai.
poosai means 'to cleanse' ( spiritual sense) and DevanEyap PaavaaNar
had explained this well in some place. Even well well known scholar
like Sunita Kumar Chatterjee had acknowledged that poojai is a
tamil word ( though he had given a wrong derivatation as
poo(flower) + sey (do) ). In Tamil 'poosi-mezhukuthal' means
'clean and wipe'. 'poosaRuththal' means 'vaay muthaliyana kazhuval'
poochchu means 'after cleaning, giving a fresh coating; to bring
lusture'
Thousands of words in Sanskrit are of pure Tamil/Dravidian origin
but they are routinely claimed to be sanskrit. Though many such
words are recognized by international scholars, still thousands
are not yet clearly recognized.
selvaa
Kathiravan
In article <53eone$7...@hpindda.cup.hp.com>, sesh...@cup.hp.com (Raghu Seshadri) writes:
|> Mr Srinivasan writes -
|>
|> : >Me and my friend have been trying to find words used in daily-tamil that
|> : >is devoid of much sanskrit/foreign influence. We came across some..
|> : >bemaani, somaareee, kasmalam, bejaar are few of them. What is funny is,
|> : >these words are hardly spoken in srilanka, so i thought there must be some
|> : >sanskrit/indian influence to it but my friend is adamant that these are
|> : >pure dravidian words.
|> : > -vendan
|> : >are there many other words that are unique to madras.
|>
|> : These are not only unique to Madras, but are recent (30 years) enhancement to
|> : enrich the Tamil language with swear words.
|>
|> : benaani - beymaan (cheat) Hindi/Urdu/Persian.
|> : kasmalam - Sanskrit (excreta of kas)
|> : bejaar - commonly used in Kannada
|> : somaari - derived from sOmbEri (Tamil)
|>
|> Bejaar is from Urdu as well. I suspect
|> the root word is bezaroor, meaning "useless".
|>
|> Kasmalam simply means "dirty" in Sanskrit.
It is kazhu malam-shit in Tamil.
|> RS
Shankar Iyer
In <Dz592...@novice.uwaterloo.ca> selv...@valluvar.uwaterloo.ca
(C.R. Selvakumar) writes:
>
>In article <53eone$7...@hpindda.cup.hp.com>,
>Raghu Seshadri <sesh...@cup.hp.com> wrote:
>>Mr Srinivasan writes -
>[..]
>>
>
> No, I don't think it is a Sanskrit word. In Sanskrit it might
> be a borrowed Tamil/Dravidian word.
SAIRAM. Your analyses presented below is quite informative. Thanks.
It does seem, thought, that the many references you have mentioned
are well after the date of the puranas, right? In the Gita, for
example, Krishna chides Arjuna: 'Kutaha -tvaa kashmalam idam
vishame sam-upa-stitam?' 'From where has this dejection come upon
you, in this perilous situation?' Clearly, from your notes below
the word has gone through expansions/changes in its meaning and
usage.
Today, when brahmins change their pooNool, the old pooNool is
discarded while chanting 'upaveetam, binna-tantum, jeernam,
kashmala dooshitam', and here kashmalam is used to mean not
just dirt, but the impurities collected through absorption of
bodily secretions (sweat, oil, etc.,).
SAIRAM. SAI 11/13/96
Paul E Jeganathan
In article <53k3f0$n...@hpindda.cup.hp.com>, sesh...@cup.hp.com (Raghu Seshadri) says:
>
>-From: Joe Croos <cro...@westatpo.westat.com>
>
>-nanri pandithargalE, Joe C.
>
>:-)
>
>
>What is the correct response to
>nanri in Tamil ?
>
>RS
>
adharkenna, irrukattum (colql)=what's there, let it be(?).
Thathachari
Raghu Seshadri wrote:
> -From: Joe Croos <cro...@westatpo.westat.com>
> -I have heard a cuss word: saavu (death) kiraaki. What is the origin
> -of kiraaki? Also, I have seen kiraaki being used to mean a victim.
> Kraaki is from the Sanskrit "graahaka",
> which means a person who is carried,
> who is borne by a carriage. This meaning
> is consistent with the usage of the
> taxi and rickshaw drivers in Madras,
> who use this word in the same sense.
Have also heard 'kiraaki' being used by the street side vendors in
Madras but in a different sense. They seem to use it to refer to
customers. Speaking of vendor slang, does anybody know the origin of
the word 'boNey'. In its street usage it is used to refer to the first
customer to buy something that day.
Thaths
Sundar
I wonder why Ganesan, Selva & co have started this
thread as "pure Dravidian words" instead of just
"Dravidian words".. Does Thomas Burrow, famous Dravidian
etymologist, distinguish Dravidian words from pure
Dravidian words?
- Sundar
Raghu Seshadri
Selva writes -
>Kasmalam simply means "dirty" in Sanskrit.
-No, I don't think it is a Sanskrit word. In Sanskrit it might
-be a borrowed Tamil/Dravidian word.
No comment about your second sentence, as you
are the expert in this field, and I defer
to your superior knowledge; but your first
sentence is in error. The word occurs twice in Sanskrit
works to my knowledge, and also can be found
in Sanskrit dictionaries.
Just because it is borrowed from Tamil does not
mean it is not a Sanskrit word. I hope you
agree that thug, catamaran, orange and kowtow are all
English words even though they are borrowed from
hindi, tamil, sanskrit and chinese respectively.
-Thousands of words in Sanskrit are of pure Tamil/Dravidian origin
-but they are routinely claimed to be sanskrit.
And correctly so. If they have become absorbed
into Sanskrit, then they are Sanskrit as well
as Tamil words, are they not ? Again think
of my thug etc examples. Are they not English
words ?
RS
C.R. Selvakumar
In article <53s5hr$f...@sjx-ixn6.ix.netcom.com>,
Shankar Iyer <sai...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>
>SAIRAM. Your analyses presented below is quite informative. Thanks.
>It does seem, thought, that the many references you have mentioned
>are well after the date of the puranas, right? In the Gita, for
>example, Krishna chides Arjuna: 'Kutaha -tvaa kashmalam idam
>vishame sam-upa-stitam?' 'From where has this dejection come upon
>you, in this perilous situation?' Clearly, from your notes below
>the word has gone through expansions/changes in its meaning and
>usage.
The mutual borrowings between Tamil and Sanskrit can not
be easily settled by the date of works. The work claimed to be
the oldest, Rg Veda itself is said to contain close
to 100 Dravidian words according to experts.
The numbers are probably much higher. There are
numerous Tamil/Dravidian words in Mahabharata and other
Sanskrit works. Even such common
words like 'kavaLam' ( a 'mouthful' of food) coming from
'kavvu' = bite find their place in these works..
Puranas are of doubtful antiquity.. some of them must be as recent
as 16-19th centuries. Gita-Mahabharata also don't seem to have
been free of many subsequent additions.
>
>Today, when brahmins change their pooNool, the old pooNool is
>discarded while chanting 'upaveetam, binna-tantum, jeernam,
>kashmala dooshitam', and here kashmalam is used to mean not
>just dirt, but the impurities collected through absorption of
>bodily secretions (sweat, oil, etc.,).
>
>SAIRAM. SAI 11/13/96
Thanks for your citations.
selvaa
C.R. Selvakumar
In article <5436f6$o...@hpindda.cup.hp.com>,
Raghu Seshadri <sesh...@cup.hp.com> wrote:
>Selva writes -
>
>>Kasmalam simply means "dirty" in Sanskrit.
>
> -No, I don't think it is a Sanskrit word. In Sanskrit it might
> -be a borrowed Tamil/Dravidian word.
>
>No comment about your second sentence, as you
>are the expert in this field, and I defer
>to your superior knowledge; but your first
>sentence is in error. The word occurs twice in Sanskrit
>works to my knowledge, and also can be found
>in Sanskrit dictionaries.
>
>Just because it is borrowed from Tamil does not
>mean it is not a Sanskrit word. I hope you
>agree that thug, catamaran, orange and kowtow are all
>English words even though they are borrowed from
>hindi, tamil, sanskrit and chinese respectively.
I thought we were talking about the 'origin' of the
words. Why did you then say kasamalam is a sanskrit word
when it was used in tamil in Tamil Nadu ?
Should it not be a tamil word as you calim ?
>
>-Thousands of words in Sanskrit are of pure Tamil/Dravidian origin
>-but they are routinely claimed to be sanskrit.
>
>And correctly so. If they have become absorbed
>into Sanskrit, then they are Sanskrit as well
>as Tamil words, are they not ? Again think
>of my thug etc examples. Are they not English
>words ?
When we are discussing about the origin of a word
we need to identify words as 'tamil, sanskrit etc..
When we want to consider what exactly does a word mean,
how come it means that etc. we often go to the source of that
word and its etymology. A Tamil word used in Sanskrit can not be
claimed to be a 'Sanskrit word' in these situations and vice versa.
So I don't agree with your comment above.
Sometimes a borrowed word gains new senses in the received language
not found in the source language. For example
the english word 'late' is adopted in tamil as 'lEttu' and
its employment in tamil is quite unique though the fundemental sense is the
same. Consider the expressions
like 'lEttu keettu aakkinEyO, pOchchu, tholachchuduvaan ..,
'lEttaakki lEttaakkiyE kazhuththa aRupaandaa ivan'
'lEttunn'u solla mudiyathu' 'lEttu aakkaathE'
'lEttukku lEttu, aanaa pEchchu mattum vakkaNai'.
>
>RS
selvaa
Shyamala Parameswaran
In article <DzJMC...@novice.uwaterloo.ca>, selv...@valluvar.uwaterloo.ca (C.R. Selvakumar) says:
>
> Puranas are of doubtful antiquity.. some of them must be as recent
> as 16-19th centuries. Gita-Mahabharata also don't seem to have
> been free of many subsequent additions.
I am not aware of which Puranas were written in the
16-19 th centuries. Perhaps you can elaborate.
I don't have access to the exact info on dates right now
but all opf the main one were written in times ranging
from prior to and end of the first millennium CE. That is,
Bhagavat Purana or better known as Srimad Bhagavatam, Skanda
Purana, Siva Purana, Vishnu Purana and Padma Purana.
If I am wrong, please correct me.
Shyamala
Raghu Seshadri
Selva writes -
: >>Kasmalam simply means "dirty" in Sanskrit.
: >
: > -No, I don't think it is a Sanskrit word. In Sanskrit it might
: > -be a borrowed Tamil/Dravidian word.
: >
: >No comment about your second sentence, as you
: >are the expert in this field, and I defer
: >to your superior knowledge; but your first
: >sentence is in error. The word occurs twice in Sanskrit
: >works to my knowledge, and also can be found
: >in Sanskrit dictionaries.
: >
: >Just because it is borrowed from Tamil does not
: >mean it is not a Sanskrit word. I hope you
: >agree that thug, catamaran, orange and kowtow are all
: >English words even though they are borrowed from
: >hindi, tamil, sanskrit and chinese respectively.
: I thought we were talking about the 'origin' of the
: words. Why did you then say kasamalam is a sanskrit word
: when it was used in tamil in Tamil Nadu ?
: Should it not be a tamil word as you calim ?
I do not know of a "pure" Tamil word called "kasmalam",
the only word I know by that spelling is of Sanskrit
origin. That is why.
: >-Thousands of words in Sanskrit are of pure Tamil/Dravidian origin
: >-but they are routinely claimed to be sanskrit.
: >
: >And correctly so. If they have become absorbed
: >into Sanskrit, then they are Sanskrit as well
: >as Tamil words, are they not ? Again think
: >of my thug etc examples. Are they not English
: >words ?
: When we are discussing about the origin of a word
: we need to identify words as 'tamil, sanskrit etc..
: When we want to consider what exactly does a word mean,
: how come it means that etc. we often go to the source of that
: word and its etymology. A Tamil word used in Sanskrit can not be
: claimed to be a 'Sanskrit word' in these situations and vice versa.
: So I don't agree with your comment above.
So thug, catamaran, algebra, alcohol etc are not
English words, in your opinion ! What a strange
thing to say !
: Sometimes a borrowed word gains new senses in the received language
: not found in the source language.
True.
RS
Shyamala Parameswaran
>In article <DzJMC...@novice.uwaterloo.ca>,
selv...@valluvar.uwaterloo.ca R. Selvakumar) says:
>(C.
>>
>> Puranas are of doubtful antiquity.. some of them must be as recent
>> as 16-19th centuries. Gita-Mahabharata also don't seem to have
>> been free of many subsequent additions.
I would also like to know the basis for the second statement,
that is, what are the "many subsequent additions" you refer
to, with regard to the _Gita_. Please address the response
ONLY with regard to the Bhagavad-Gita, a scriptural text
that has stood independently ever since it became available
in written form (despite the fact that it forms the essence
and core of the historical epic, the Mahabharata).
Shyamala
V. Nagarajan
In article <DzJnp...@novice.uwaterloo.ca>,
C.R. Selvakumar <selv...@valluvar.uwaterloo.ca> wrote:
...
> I thought we were talking about the 'origin' of the
> words. Why did you then say kasamalam is a sanskrit word
> when it was used in tamil in Tamil Nadu ?
> Should it not be a tamil word as you calim ?
Is "kasmalam" to be found in any tamil dictionary? Wouldn't
that be the proper criterion?
- Nagarajan
Raghu Seshadri
Mr Nagarajan writes -
C.R. Selvakumar <selv...@valluvar.uwaterloo.ca> wrote:
...
> I thought we were talking about the 'origin' of the
> words. Why did you then say kasamalam is a sanskrit word
> when it was used in tamil in Tamil Nadu ?
> Should it not be a tamil word as you calim ?
Is "kasmalam" to be found in any tamil dictionary? Wouldn't
that be the proper criterion?
Excellent point. I was wondering how to draw the
line between borrowed words ( like the numerous
English words used in Tamil conversations today,
plainly it is ridiculous to call them Tamil
for that reason ) and words that have been well
integrated into Tamil ( like santosham, lakshanam,
gopuram etc etc ).
Mr Nagarajan provides a logical criterion - leave
it to the experts who write dictionaries. If they
have seen it fit to put it in the Tamil dictionary,
it is a Tamil word, else it isn't.
So Kasmalam and Selva's example "lettu" etc
are not tamil words, even though used by Tamil
speakers. Whereas thug and catamaran are English
words because English lexicographers say so.
Does anyone know how long a word has to
be used in Tamil before experts would
consider it a Tamil word ?
RS
Dorai Sitaram
In article <54lu6g$f...@hpindda.cup.hp.com>,
Raghu Seshadri <sesh...@cup.hp.com> wrote:
>Mr Nagarajan provides a logical criterion - leave
>it to the experts who write dictionaries. If they
>have seen it fit to put it in the Tamil dictionary,
>it is a Tamil word, else it isn't.
I can well imagine that a Tamil dictionary with some
pretension to comprehensiveness would happily include
kasmalam (as also car and bus) as one of its headwords. A
lexicographer cannot ignore usage. But such a dictionary
would also supply some etymology. Given that kasmalam has
the -sm- (or -shm-) consonant cluster, it would be difficult
(at least for a real lexicographer) to claim that it is a
"pure Tamil" as opposed to a loan word.
>So Kasmalam and Selva's example "lettu" etc
>are not tamil words, even though used by Tamil
>speakers. Whereas thug and catamaran are English
>words because English lexicographers say so.
There is a possibility that kasmalam is left out of existing
Tamil dictionaries for the same reason that some widely used
cusswords are left out of the smaller English dictionaries.
>Does anyone know how long a word has to
>be used in Tamil before experts would
>consider it a Tamil word ?
If English dictionaries are anything to go by, it doesn't
appear to be a numbers game (at least the number is not a
let's-wait-and-see year count in your sense). Spanking
brand new words get in all the time, if they manage to
capture the imagination or need of a critical mass of users.
The only time hurdle is the period of the edition cycle,
which has nothing to do with any word being deliberately
placed in "probation". If this cycle is small enough (and
it promises to get there as dictionaries go electronic),
there is no reason for a word not to make it in as soon as
the "expert" spots it as having achieved critical mass.
--d
C.R. Selvakumar
In article <54limn$7...@nntp1.u.washington.edu>,
V. Nagarajan <ng...@u.washington.edu> wrote:
>In article <DzJnp...@novice.uwaterloo.ca>,
>C.R. Selvakumar <selv...@valluvar.uwaterloo.ca> wrote:
>...
>> I thought we were talking about the 'origin' of the
>> words. Why did you then say kasamalam is a sanskrit word
>> when it was used in tamil in Tamil Nadu ?
>> Should it not be a tamil word as you calim ?
>
> Is "kasmalam" to be found in any tamil dictionary? Wouldn't
> that be the proper criterion?
>
Kasamaalam is given in Tamil dictionaries ( for example see
kazhagth thamizh agaraathi; with the strange habit of citing
page numbers in dictionaries in this ng - here it is
see page 249 in the 3rd edition, 1974 ). You can also see
a word listed in sanskrit dictionary. Such citations don't
prove anything except that such a word is used in the language
and recognized by its lexicographers. The nativity and origin
of the word and semantic connections are different.
selvaa
C.R. Selvakumar
In article <54o1co$o...@news.gte.com>, Dorai Sitaram <ds...@bunny.gte.com> wrote:
>In article <54lu6g$f...@hpindda.cup.hp.com>,
>Raghu Seshadri <sesh...@cup.hp.com> wrote:
>>Mr Nagarajan provides a logical criterion - leave
>>it to the experts who write dictionaries. If they
>>have seen it fit to put it in the Tamil dictionary,
>>it is a Tamil word, else it isn't.
>
>I can well imagine that a Tamil dictionary with some
>pretension to comprehensiveness would happily include
>kasmalam (as also car and bus) as one of its headwords. A
>lexicographer cannot ignore usage. But such a dictionary
>would also supply some etymology. Given that kasmalam has
>the -sm- (or -shm-) consonant cluster, it would be difficult
>(at least for a real lexicographer) to claim that it is a
>"pure Tamil" as opposed to a loan word.
There is no '-sm-' consonant cluster in the tamil word kasamaalam.
It is made up of two words 'kasam' and 'maalam'.
The word kasam is used as a stand alone word.
Example: 'Chee ! kasam'daa ! athaippOy thodaraiyE !'
The word 'maalam' is found in other compund words like
'maaymaalam' as I explained earlier.
>
>>So Kasmalam and Selva's example "lettu" etc
>>are not tamil words, even though used by Tamil
>>speakers. Whereas thug and catamaran are English
>>words because English lexicographers say so.
>
>There is a possibility that kasmalam is left out of existing
>Tamil dictionaries for the same reason that some widely used
>cusswords are left out of the smaller English dictionaries.
It is listed in dictionaries.
Raghu Seshadri
C.R. Selvakumar <selv...@valluvar.uwaterloo.ca> wrote:
: >> I thought we were talking about the 'origin' of the
: >> words. Why did you then say kasamalam is a sanskrit word
: >> when it was used in tamil in Tamil Nadu ?
: >> Should it not be a tamil word as you calim ?
: >
: > Is "kasmalam" to be found in any tamil dictionary? Wouldn't
: > that be the proper criterion?
: >
: > - Nagarajan
: Kasamaalam is given in Tamil dictionaries ( for example see
: kazhagth thamizh agaraathi; with the strange habit of citing
: page numbers in dictionaries in this ng - here it is
: see page 249 in the 3rd edition, 1974 ). You can also see
: a word listed in sanskrit dictionary. Such citations don't
: prove anything except that such a word is used in the language
: and recognized by its lexicographers. The nativity and origin
: of the word and semantic connections are different.
Thanks, Selva, for this info. So then by the Nagarajan
Criterion, it is a Tamil word too, along with being
a Sanskrit word. But as Dorai
points out any decent dictionary also includes
some etymological info and origin info if available.
What does your dictionary say about the origin
of Kasmalam ?
RS
eashw...@gmail.com
> >
> > Mr Srinivasan writes -
> >
> > : >is devoid of much sanskrit/foreign influence. We came across some..
> > : >bemaani, somaareee, kasmalam, bejaar are few of them. What is funny is,
> > : >these words are hardly spoken in srilanka, so i thought there must be some
> > : >sanskrit/indian influence to it but my friend is adamant that these are
> > : >pure dravidian words.
> > : > -vendan
> > : >are there many other words that are unique to madras.
> >
> > : These are not only unique to Madras, but are recent (30 years) enhancement to
> > : enrich the Tamil language with swear words.
> >
> > : benaani - beymaan (cheat) Hindi/Urdu/Persian.
> > : somaari - derived from sOmbEri (Tamil)
> >
> > Bejaar is from Urdu as well. I suspect
> > the root word is bezaroor, meaning "useless".
> >
> >
> I have heard a cuss word: saavu (death) kiraaki. What is the origin
>
>
Kraaki is an Aberration of GraaHak.
graahak means patron (or customer).
A Saavu Kraaki is a customer who spells death or is a "bad customer" who bodes ill