R.D.Burman Vs. Ilaiyaraja?

[Ramesh Vaidhyanathan]

Guys,

The Hindi hit song of the year,
from the movie "1942: A Love Story",

"Ek ladki ka dekha to
Aisa laga ..." (Music: R.D.Burman)

is a copy of the Ilaiyaraja's Tamil Movie song
from the movie "Nadodi Thenral" (Barathiraja's film):

"Yaarum vilayadum thottam ...

Kopangal vendam konjam aarappodu
aarodum ooraip paththu deraa podu"?

How about a discussion on Ilaiyaraja's
tunes being copied a lot into hindi film songs?

-Ramesh, V.

[Gururaj Deshpande]

Ramesh Vaidhyanathan (vaid...@ecn.purdue.edu) wrote:
: Guys,

: How about a discussion on Ilaiyaraja's

: tunes being copied a lot into hindi film songs?

How about a discussion on Ilaiyaraja copying Mozart's
compositions? :)

Just kidding, I don't claim that he did. But some of the
pieces I have heard had tunes similar to Mozart's.

I have not heard a lot of Ilaiyaraja. Was Ilaiyaraja
infuenced/inspired by Mozart's works?

: -Ramesh, V.

guru/-

--
Opinions are mine only, I like it that way.

[Rajeev Sivaram]

>>>>> "Gururaj" == Gururaj Deshpande <desh...@panther.bear.com> writes:

Gururaj> Ramesh Vaidhyanathan (vaid...@ecn.purdue.edu) wrote: : Guys,

Gururaj> : How about a discussion on Ilaiyaraja's : tunes being copied a lot
Gururaj> into hindi film songs?

Gururaj> How about a discussion on Ilaiyaraja copying Mozart's compositions?
Gururaj> :)

Gururaj> Just kidding, I don't claim that he did. But some of the pieces I
Gururaj> have heard had tunes similar to Mozart's.

Gururaj> I have not heard a lot of Ilaiyaraja. Was Ilaiyaraja
Gururaj> infuenced/inspired by Mozart's works?

Talking about Mozart influences is a different thing. Many musicians after
Mozart's time must've been influenced by the stuff Mozart had composed. But a
*direct flick* of a Mozart tune was made by Shanker Jaikishen. I didn't
realise this till I saw a program on Mozart (back home, a couple of years ago
on some Mozart anniversary) where they played the tune. I can't get the words
of the song (I think it's an old RK flick), my memory deserting me at the
right moment. When I heard the tune, I (very foolishly, of course) said "Hey
that's a copy of a Hindi song..." and of course made a fool out of myself,
being curtly informed that the tune was in existence before SJ came into
existence!!

I have faced a similar situation however, when I went to do my Bachelors up
north. My Hostelmates used to drop into my room and hearing an Ilaiyaraaja
number would quickly point out "Arre yeh to uss gane ka copy hai.." and I
would disabuse them, informing them that this (or that) tune was in existence
at least five years (sometimes lower --- this Anand Milind team, whatever may
be said against them, are fast `coggers' and they have found a goldmine in
Ilayairaaja and the north's ignorance of the music created down south. Nowadays
Ilaiyaraaja tunes are copied within two years of their becoming hits down
south!!) before the song's Hindi `counterpart'.

Some of the songs in recent times which have made it all the way near the top
(if not *the* top) of the Cibaca Geet Mala list, were flicked from Ilaiyaraaja
numbers.

1. Tu tu tu tu tu tara from BOL RADHA BOL Hindi : Anand Milind

Original: Rakkamma Kaiyya Thattu from DALAPATHI Music; Ilaiyaraaja

2. Dhak Dhak Karne Laga from BETA Hindi: Anand Milind

Original: Abba Nee theeyani Debba from JAGADEEKA VEERUDU ATILOKA
SUNDARI (telugu)
Music: Ilaiyaraaja

3. Chandni Raat hai thu mere saath hai from BAAGHI Hindi: Anand Milind

Original: Keladi Kanmani padagan sangadi from PUDU PUDU ARTHANGAL
Music: Ilaiyaraaja

..... and the list can go on. It's getting late and I don't have the enthu to
type further. But if the lovers of recent Hindi film music want to hear
prospective tunes for later `hits' from Kumar Shanu, AM and co., getting hold
of "Raaja'a" latest hits may be a good idea :-)

Rajeev Sivaram, 112, West Lane Avenue,
Department of Computer and Information Science, Apartment 1-C
The Ohio State University, Columbus, Ohio 43201-1026
Columbus, Ohio 43210 Phone->(614)-421-0951

[dakshana prapaharan ims stnt]

In article <SIVARAM.94...@dorothy.cis.ohio-state.edu> siv...@cis.ohio-state.edu (Rajeev Sivaram) writes:
>
>I have faced a similar situation however, when I went to do my Bachelors up
>north. My Hostelmates used to drop into my room and hearing an Ilaiyaraaja
>number would quickly point out "Arre yeh to uss gane ka copy hai.." and I
>would disabuse them, informing them that this (or that) tune was in existence
>at least five years (sometimes lower --- this Anand Milind team, whatever may
>be said against them, are fast `coggers' and they have found a goldmine in
>Ilayairaaja and the north's ignorance of the music created down south. Nowadays
>Ilaiyaraaja tunes are copied within two years of their becoming hits down
>south!!) before the song's Hindi `counterpart'.
>

Aren't there any copyright laws in India?

S. Prabaharan>

[Ramesh Hariharan]

In article <332u2d$5...@mozo.cc.purdue.edu> vaid...@lips.ecn.purdue writes:
>Guys,
>
>The Hindi hit song of the year,
>from the movie "1942: A Love Story",
>
>"Ek ladki ka dekha to
> Aisa laga ..." (Music: R.D.Burman)
>
>is a copy of the Ilaiyaraja's Tamil Movie song
>from the movie "Nadodi Thenral" (Barathiraja's film):
>
>"Yaarum vilayadum thottam ...
>
> Kopangal vendam konjam aarappodu
> aarodum ooraip paththu deraa podu"?
>

>-Ramesh, V.
>

Can someone pl. confirm this !!! This would be shocking .. RD can't do
this

--
Ramesh Hariharan, Chem. Engg., Princeton Univ.
COPA MUNDIAL ... BRASIL FINALLY !!!!!!!

[Rajeev Sivaram]

>>>>> "dakshana" == dakshana prapaharan ims stnt <dxp...@hertz.njit.edu> writes:

dakshana> Aren't there any copyright laws in India?

I don't think so. At least, even they exist, they must not be very well
defined. As I had written to somebody before, Ilaiyaraaja was asked about his
kind of copying of his tunes in an interview with him in Filmfare. His reply
was that, even if he could take this to court, with the famous alacrity which
the courts show in arriving at decisions, he would've been left running to the
courts and behind lawyers, wasting time which he can utilize to compose more
tunes!! After all, you must remember that we are talking about a guy who
composes music for a film (5 full songs, at least), and finishes the recording
for the same (with his full orchestra) all within *7 days*. Even though there
has been some criticism (valid to a some extent), that his music quality
suffers because of this, he still manages to compose brilliant numbers at his
usual pace (along with some poor ones --- by *his standards* i.e.).

At the cost of being verbose, I can't resist adding that one of the things
that shocked the guys from the Royal Philharmonic Orchestra for whom 'Raaja
was composing, was the pace at which our man was `writing' music. He is
supposed to have composed the whole symphony in 1 month flat!

So instead of running behind the likes of A-M (who don't even have the
humility to say that thiir tune -- at least -- had an Ilaiyaraaja influence,
especially when it is more like a copy :-)), I think you will agree (keeping
in mind the above) that 'Raaja has better things to do. Then what's this noise
about? It's just to point out that the tunes which many of the *current* Hindi
MD's are churning out and have been wallowing in the fame that the tune's
success has given them, are but imitations and that therefore they are kings
sitting on borrowed thrones 8-) (are they really `kings'...I wonder:). Maybe I
got carried away...;-)).

NOTE: Poor RD Burman is in the header of this thread. That's unfortunate
because, (though he may have taken some tunes from other sources towards the
end of his career), I think that he was a really good composer (movies like
`Aandhi' etc.) and was in fact, my favourite Hindi music composer. I would
hardly choose his name for representing the copying done in Hindi music
nowadays.

dakshana> S. Prabaharan>

Rajeev Sivaram, 112, West Lane Avenue,

[Divya Balachandran]

>In article <332u2d$5...@mozo.cc.purdue.edu> vaid...@lips.ecn.purdue writes:
>>Guys,
>>
>>The Hindi hit song of the year,
>>from the movie "1942: A Love Story",
>>
>>"Ek ladki ka dekha to
>> Aisa laga ..." (Music: R.D.Burman)
>>
>>is a copy of the Ilaiyaraja's Tamil Movie song
>>from the movie "Nadodi Thenral" (Barathiraja's film):
>>
>>"Yaarum vilayadum thottam ...
>>
>> Kopangal vendam konjam aarappodu
>> aarodum ooraip paththu deraa podu"?

I don't think that RD would some kind of copying like this....please
do confirm this.
Divya

AB rules!!!!!!

[Srinivasa R Raghavan]

In article <SIVARAM.94...@dorothy.cis.ohio-state.edu>, siv...@cis.ohio-state.edu (Rajeev Sivaram) writes:

>
> Talking about Mozart influences is a different thing. Many musicians after
> Mozart's time must've been influenced by the stuff Mozart had composed. But a
> *direct flick* of a Mozart tune was made by Shanker Jaikishen. I didn't
> realise this till I saw a program on Mozart (back home, a couple of years ago
> on some Mozart anniversary) where they played the tune. I can't get the words
> of the song (I think it's an old RK flick), my memory deserting me at the
> right moment. When I heard the tune, I (very foolishly, of course) said "Hey
> that's a copy of a Hindi song..." and of course made a fool out of myself,
> being curtly informed that the tune was in existence before SJ came into
> existence!!

the song u r talking about is :

Woh chand khila woh tare hanse,
yeh raat ajab matwari hai...

from Anari (starring Raj Kapoor).

you could add to this list :

O Priya priya from "Dil", again music by A-M, copied from the original
Telugu movie "Geetanjali".

also, the movie Agni Nakshathiram (Tamil) was remade in Hindi, with (i believe)
each song copied to Hindi lyrics. again by Anand-Milind.

srinivas

[Srinivasa R Raghavan]

In article <332u2d$5...@mozo.cc.purdue.edu>, vaid...@ecn.purdue.edu

unless ur ears r much more sensitive than mine (to detect the same ragas and
so forth), the two songs are ENTIRELY DIFFERENT. i have both songs on tape and
there is no similarity AT ALL between the two tunes.

while i acknowledge Ilayaraja's skill as a musician this is definitely
too much.

srini

[SUDHARSHAN SANTHANAM]

In article <1994Aug21.1...@njitgw.njit.edu> dxp...@hertz.njit.edu (dakshana prapaharan ims stnt) writes:
>From: dxp...@hertz.njit.edu (dakshana prapaharan ims stnt)
>Subject: Re: R.D.Burman Vs. Ilaiyaraja?
>Date: Sun, 21 Aug 1994 13:18:01 GMT

>In article <SIVARAM.94...@dorothy.cis.ohio-state.edu> siv...@cis.ohio-state.edu (Rajeev Sivaram) writes:
>>

>>I have faced a similar situation however, when I went to do my Bachelors up
>>north. My Hostelmates used to drop into my room and hearing an Ilaiyaraaja
>>number would quickly point out "Arre yeh to uss gane ka copy hai.." and I
>>would disabuse them, informing them that this (or that) tune was in existence
>>at least five years (sometimes lower --- this Anand Milind team, whatever may
>>be said against them, are fast `coggers' and they have found a goldmine in
>>Ilayairaaja and the north's ignorance of the music created down south. Nowadays
>>Ilaiyaraaja tunes are copied within two years of their becoming hits down
>>south!!) before the song's Hindi `counterpart'.
>>

>Aren't there any copyright laws in India?

>S. Prabaharan>

>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Rajeev Sivaram, 112, West Lane Avenue,

---------------

There is. The guys can be sued for copying. But in a function I attended to
Honour Ilayiaraja ,G.Venkateshwaran had quoted this problem. I believe If
they were to start doing this there were a lot of tunes they would have to
straighten up things

A fantastic example

EK DO TEEN CHAR PANCH CHEY SAAATH...... ( TEZZAB- THE MEGAHIT SONG)

WAS

A

COOL COPY FROM GUESS WHAT

ANNEY ANNEY SIPPA ANNEY NAMMU ORU NALLA OORU IPPO ROMBA KETTU POCHANNE

(KOZHI KUVUDHU)

SUDHARSHAN

[SUDHARSHAN SANTHANAM]

In article <1994Aug20.1...@Princeton.EDU> hari...@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Ramesh Hariharan) writes:
>From: hari...@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Ramesh Hariharan)

>Subject: Re: R.D.Burman Vs. Ilaiyaraja?

>Keywords: Movie, song, copy
>Date: Sat, 20 Aug 1994 14:29:23 GMT

Buddy,
I guess you have got a point there, but I am not too sure, btw it could be
possible that both are based on the same ragam

sudharshan

[SQA SQA]

In article <santhasx.5...@ie.twsu.edu>,

SUDHARSHAN SANTHANAM <sant...@ie.twsu.edu> wrote:
>>>Ilayairaaja and the north's ignorance of the music created down south. Nowadays
>>>Ilaiyaraaja tunes are copied within two years of their becoming hits down
>>>south!!) before the song's Hindi `counterpart'.
>>Aren't there any copyright laws in India?
>
>

>A fantastic example
>
>EK DO TEEN CHAR PANCH CHEY SAAATH...... ( TEZZAB- THE MEGAHIT SONG)
>WAS

>COOL COPY FROM GUESS WHAT
>ANNEY ANNEY SIPPA ANNEY NAMMU ORU NALLA OORU IPPO ROMBA KETTU POCHANNE
>

>SUDHARSHAN
What ever You say, I am happy to see this trend reversal. For so many
years we used to seeing copied Tamil Films, Songs from Hollywood and
Bollywood but now atleast there are a few original things that we can be
proud of. Thanks to guys like Illaya Raja, Mani Rathnam, Balachandar, etc.

Pandi Thurai.

[kris...@gmail.com]

Just heard them. It's not even close . Th compositions are different

[npalglo...@gmail.com]

On Tuesday, June 23, 2015 at 11:18:29 PM UTC+5:30, kris...@gmail.com wrote:
> Just heard them. It's not even close . Th compositions are different

if illa yaraja has guts let him compose songs like dilber mere, chura liya,and others.

[digina...@gmail.com]

Can anybody compose songs like ilaya nila and rakkama kaoya thathu or probably sundari kannal oru seithi

[digina...@gmail.com]

[sush...@gmail.com]

Hi,

I like RDB a lot and am a fan of him. It hurts that 2 great music directors are unfairly compared here.

Please don't ask if ilayaraja can compose like this or that.
As I have heard so many RDB songs and understand his greatness you should listen to ilayaraja songs from 1976 to 1985 mainly to understand how great his.
Particularly when it comes orchestration he stands out from the rest.

[alexwill...@gmail.com]

I'm a music lover and just not only listening to music but know a bit more into what music is and coming to the songs you mentioned about RDB sorry to say but they're copied from English and most of his songs are from English and Arabic albums,but still I'm a die hard fan of music and I listen to all type of music.

[alexwill...@gmail.com]

No one can compose a song like illayanila and it was copied in Hindi but they couldn't do as Raja sir did and it was composed by bappi lahiri and Kishore da sang in Hindi.

[senku...@gmail.com]

Ramesh.V-
No offence to you, but I've just listened to the song that you've mentioned not once, but TWICE! And please note that there is NO- I mean N.O. resemblance between "ek ladki ko dekha tho" and the Nadodi thendral song.
Look, Ilayaraja is a great composer but his greatness need not be celebrated or validated by down-grading another great composer without any validation!

Moreover, I've read an excerpt by the famous filmmaker Sanjay leela Bhansali in the preface to a book on RD Burman, that he was present in the composing session along with RD Burman,as Bhansali was the cinematographer or the song-director for Vidhu Vinod Chopra. Bhansali stated that the song instantly came to RD Burman, within seconds! It's completely his and only his own!

Please kindly check and be sure before you post stuff, sir.