Bharathiyar Song
Meenakshi Srikanth
Subject: Re: Bharathiyaar Song
Summary: explanation
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Sender: ka...@cse.ogi.edu(Srikanth Meenakshi)
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Organization: Oregon Graduate Institute (formerly OGC), Beaverton, OR
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In article <92Oct14.14...@acs.ucalgary.ca> nven...@acs.ucalgary.ca (Natarajan Venkateswaran) writes:
> In the song 'kaakhai siRaginile' Bharathiyaar says
> 'theekkuL viralai vaithaal, nandalaala
> ninnai theendum inbam ......'
Bharathi was a firm believer in the 'shakthi' concept(inspired
by Sri Aurobindo) which held that every life and energy form is
a manifestation of Shakthi in reality. Accordingly, Fire is the
most patent of these manifestations and touching fire is touching
god Himself(Though Bharathi has always visualised
Shakthi in a feminine form, gender of God was more of a poetical
necessity rather than a mental fixation ).
>
>
> '.. karia niRam thonDruthada, nandalaala', which suggests
> that Krishna was of karia niRam. However, we are familiar
Krishna has always been referred to as the dark formed one and any
color can be associated with the darkness(Pachai niram thondruthada!)
>
> Natarajan
>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil
Subject: Re: Bharathiyaar Song
Summary:
Expires:
References: <92Oct14.14...@acs.ucalgary.ca>
Sender:
Followup-To:
Distribution: na
Organization: Oregon Graduate Institute (formerly OGC), Beaverton, OR
Keywords:
In article <92Oct14.14...@acs.ucalgary.ca> nven...@acs.ucalgary.ca (Natarajan Venkateswaran) writes:
>
> In the song 'kaakhai siRaginile' Bharathiyaar says
>
> 'theekkuL viralai vaithaal, nandalaala
> ninnai theendum inbam ......'
>
> Could anybody explain about 'theekkul viral' and 'theendum
> inbam' ? How can putting one's hand in fire give us 'pleasure'
> of touching 'nandalaala' ?
>
> On a related note, I think 'nandalaala' refers to Krishna. If
> so it is interesting to note that it is said in this song
>
> '.. karia niRam thonDruthada, nandalaala', which suggests
> that Krishna was of karia niRam. However, we are familiar
> with the colour of Krishna as blue (neela niRa Kanna).
>
> Natarajan
>
visw...@draco.rutgers.edu
> In article <92Oct14.14...@acs.ucalgary.ca> nven...@acs.ucalgary.ca (Natarajan Venkateswaran) writes:
the very word Krishna in Sanskrit means 'black' or 'dark' as in
krishna paksha, the "black" phase of the moon.
P.V. Viswanath
C.R.Selvakumar - Electrical Engineering
Yes Krishna means black in Skt. but it comes from Tamil root "karu or kari".
In the Vedas ( as per Vedic Index) there is no mention of Lord Krishna
( understandably, since Krishna is supposed to be a later arrival) but
there is one occurence of Krsna meaning a black bird in Veda and it is
most probably the bird referred in Tamil as kari-kuruvi.
As another valaiNYar has pointed out poet Bharathi was enchanted and intoxicated
with "form and energy". In the words "theekkuL viralai vittaal" I think
Bharathiyaar *does* mean putting a finger inside a burning flame and it is *not*
the warmth he talks but rather the intensity of feeling "soodu".[ One should not
extend this to say that if he kept his finger long enough he will
get burnt etc.]. It appears that "touching" the flame reminds poet Bharathi
to the "intense" feeling of "theenduthal" of nandalala. By these words Bharathi
certainly imparts a new "intensity" to the sublime feeling of
God-Consciousness".
The original poster ( not my friend viswanath@draco) seems
to take a literal meaning of Bharathi's song. A poem is an emotional
or "intellectual" feeling encased in a beautiful language. The original
poster should consider Bharathi's words "inba thEn vanthu payuthu kaathinilE".
If he begins to interpret "will it be a nice feeling if the honey were to
flow (pour) into ones ears ?" that will be quite missing the essence.
Just like joke can not be
explained the poem also can not be adequately explained. In the 'thEn
vanthu payuthu' the inflow of sweet feeling is implied not the 'vada vada'
sticky feeling of thEn flowing into our ears !!
Similarly, the colour of krishna is dark which could be a dark green or
dark blue or simply black. I would venture to say that Krishna might have
looked dark green when he was standing in his 'brindhavan' with green leaves
around or he might have looked dark blue when he was in the midst of a field
full of blue flowers or in the midst of "kuvaLai" flowers....
anbudan
Selva Selvakumar
Kathiravan Krishnamurthi
>In article <1992Oct14...@draco.rutgers.edu>, visw...@draco.rutgers.edu writes:
>>
>> > In article <92Oct14.14...@acs.ucalgary.ca> nven...@acs.ucalgary.ca (Natarajan Venkateswaran) writes:
>> and enquires about why Krishna is described as being dark coloured;
>> the very word Krishna in Sanskrit means 'black' or 'dark' as in
>> krishna paksha, the "black" phase of the moon.
>> P.V. Viswanath
>Yes Krishna means black in Skt. but it comes from Tamil root "karu or kari".
>In the Vedas ( as per Vedic Index) there is no mention of Lord Krishna
>( understandably, since Krishna is supposed to be a later arrival) but
>there is one occurence of Krsna meaning a black bird in Veda and it is
>most probably the bird referred in Tamil as kari-kuruvi.
krishnaa is from kaNNaa. kaNNan is referred to as mayOn in
sangam literature. Prakrit kaNNa is kaNhaa. (I read somewhere)
Even vishnu is really "vinhu" referring to the sky-blue. vin-sky in
tamizh.
anban
kathiravan
C.R.Selvakumar - Electrical Engineering
> In <Bw7ww...@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca> selv...@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca (C.R.Selvakumar - Electrical Engineering) writes:
>
> >In article <1992Oct14...@draco.rutgers.edu>, visw...@draco.rutgers.edu writes:
> >>
> >> > In article <92Oct14.14...@acs.ucalgary.ca> nven...@acs.ucalgary.ca (Natarajan Venkateswaran) writes:
> >> and enquires about why Krishna is described as being dark coloured;
> >> the very word Krishna in Sanskrit means 'black' or 'dark' as in
> >> krishna paksha, the "black" phase of the moon.
> >> P.V. Viswanath
>
> >Yes Krishna means black in Skt. but it comes from Tamil root "karu or kari".
> >In the Vedas ( as per Vedic Index) there is no mention of Lord Krishna
> >( understandably, since Krishna is supposed to be a later arrival) but
> >there is one occurence of Krsna meaning a black bird in Veda and it is
> >most probably the bird referred in Tamil as kari-kuruvi.
>
>
> krishnaa is from kaNNaa. kaNNan is referred to as mayOn in
> sangam literature. Prakrit kaNNa is kaNhaa. (I read somewhere)
> Even vishnu is really "vinhu" referring to the sky-blue. vin-sky in
> tamizh.
>
> anban
> kathiravan
It is possible that Tamil 'kaNNan' can become 'krishnan > krsna' since
Tamil 'ka' will go into Sanskrit as 'kra' and Tamil '-NNa' or '-Tna'
can become 'shna' in Skt.
But the Vedic word 'krsna' ( is nothing to do with 'kaNNan' ) was
used to denote a 'black bird' and
it is most likely the 'kari-kuruvi' and thus I think the root word
in 'krsna' is Tamil 'kar' > Skt. 'kr' . How will you explain the black
bird otherwise ? ( apparently there is no satisfactory derivation of
this word from Skt. roots). You also have to consider the krishna paksha
etc. giving a meaning of 'black' ( of course the meaning of black might
have acrued later than the arrival of Lord Krishna).
I've also heard that Sanskrit 'Vishnu' is from tamil viNNOn > viNNu >
vishnu where Tamil viN = vaanam (sky). It is also possible that Skt.
vishnu comes from Tamil 'vizhu+nan' where vizhu= 'fame, great attainment'.
Note tamil words 'vizhuppam' = greatness. [ ozhukkam vizhuppam tharalaal
ozhukkam uyirinum Ombapadum = Since righteous behaviour(=ozhukkam) gives
true greatness (vizhuppam), ozhukkam is considered more precious than
life ( uyir) ]. I believe there is no satisfactory derivation of
'krsna' and 'vishnu' from Skt. roots. If knowledgeable valaiNYars
can explain the current thinking as to the derivations of these words
from Skt. roots we might say with more certainity about the Tamil
source of these words. Tamil 'vizhu' also can give esoteric philosophical
meaning of 'inner nectar dripping' referring to the 'amudha kudam giving
inner nectar' supposed to be between eye-brows. Also note that thick
viscous liquid is called 'vizhuthu' but this is used most often with
respect to ghee which is thick and viscous as 'vizhuthu ney'.
The tamil word 'vizhuthu' has many other meanings such as
'aerial root of banian tree ( because it 'falls' from 'above') '
'a rope used for measuring the depth ( usually in water-bodies)'
'a part of an instrument used by weavers'
In general 'vizhu' means 'chirappu'. 'vizhuththagai' means 'a greatness
no one else had achieved'; 'vizhuththiNai' means 'uyar kulam'; vizhuppuN
means a 'scar resulting from brave action as in a war'; vizhupporuL means
' nuNNiya poruL = extremely subtle thing' , 'lofty matter';
vizhumiya means 'best, top most, purest, rare, excellent';
vizhumam means 'great, superb, great goodness, pure'
vizhumiyOr = periyOr
vizhuppakai = perum pakai ( serious or great enemy) [ root meaning of 'great'
Interestingly tamil 'vizhi' gives the meaning of 'eye, awakening' and
thus 'kaNNan' gets connected !! Thus either vizhu or vizhi could also
be a root of Vishnu apart from the possibility of viN.
These thoughts are offered for your consideration....
anbudan
Selva Selvakumar