Tamil Word ******!
Rajkumar Subramaniam
> Vanakkam nannparhale !
> I am looking for a tamil word for " fax ". If anyone have any idea please send
> me a mail.
telephone-thOlaipEsi
fax -thOlainakal
rajkumarS
> anpudan,
> sasi.s
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Rajkumar Subramaniam
Carleton University
Second Year, Electrical-System Stream Engineering
Email address: rsub...@chat.carleton.ca & j2su...@novice.uwaterloo.ca
Email address: uc...@ciao.trail.bc.ca & r...@aurora.carleton.ca
Email address: aj...@freenet.carleton.ca & aj...@freenet.fsu.edu
Phone Number: (613) 567-0820
**** FREEDOM WITH RESPONSIBILTY **** (4 YEARS)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
IRUTHAYANATHAN, RICHARD A.
s...@orre.sin.no (Sasi.S) writes...
>I am looking for a tamil word for " fax ".
fax = tholain~akal.
Richard
*******************************************************************************
Richard A Iruthayanathan
ra_...@pavo.concordia.ca
Concordia University
Montreal, PQ
CANADA
*******************************************************************************
C. R. Selvakumar
>
>Vanakkam nannparhale !
>
>I am looking for a tamil word for " fax ". If anyone have any idea please send
>me a mail.
Some of the possibilities are:
[1] faaksu
[2] tholai_varai [ varai = varaivu ]
[3] tholai_padi ( = telecopier)
[4] tholai_ezhuththu ( 'ezhuththu' includes the meanings of 'drawing,
any picture' etc. It was also used for 'painting'
Examples of usages:
\bt
'tholai_varai' anuppinEn, tholaivarai innum vara villai,
tholaivarai vidalaamE, uNGaL tholaivarai eN enna ?
nINGaL anuppina tholaivarai theLivaa illai, athanal konjam
pericu paduththi tholaivaraiyil anuppiungaL.
eNGaL tholaipadi vElai seyya villai. nERRu tholaipadikku
mai uruLai mARRac connEnE mARRinIrkaLaa ?
uNGaL tholai ezhuththu enna ? antha kadiththai n^An nERRE
tholaiezhuthinEnE
\et
We can also form verbal expressions like 'tholai_varainthEn'
'tholai_padi viduththEn' , tholai_ezhuthinEn'
tholaipEsinEn = I phoned
ammaavOdu tholai pEsinEn = I phoned mother
In the same way, we can say 'ammaavukku en kadiththaith tholaivarainthEn'
'innum tholaivaraiya villai'
innum tholai_ezhuthavillai, naaLaikkuth tholai ezhuthukiREn.
>anpudan,
>sasi.s
anbudan -selvaa
Prakash Jayaraman
>We can also form verbal expressions like 'tholai_varainthEn'
>'tholai_padi viduththEn' , tholai_ezhuthinEn'
>tholaipEsinEn = I phoned
>ammaavOdu tholai pEsinEn = I phoned mother
Excellent!
Writer Sujatha (Mr. Rengarajan) invented 'payaNiththal' which means
'travelling'. He invented many other words which are now commonly is
use by other writers. I am able to recall only this word (and perhaps
'madhyamar' - middle class people). Do you remember any other such
words ?
_J._Prakash
Prakash Jayaraman
>In article <sas.11....@orre.sin.no>,
>s...@orre.sin.no (Sasi.S) writes...
>>I am looking for a tamil word for " fax ".
> fax = tholain~akal.
n~akal means 'copy'. doesn't it?
_J._Prakash
Kannan Thiruvengadam
: Some of the possibilities are:
: [1] faaksu
: [2] tholai_varai [ varai = varaivu ]
: [3] tholai_padi ( = telecopier)
: [4] tholai_ezhuththu ( 'ezhuththu' includes the meanings of 'drawing,
: any picture' etc. It was also used for 'painting'
:
Why is it necessary to come up with some word for fax ?
what is wrong in using 'fax' ? We know that most (all?) people in
Tamil Nadu say 'office' for office and not 'aluvalagam'.
It does serve the purpose doesn't it ?
In a rapidly developing world, the need to communicate with
non-tamil speaking people is as much as (or probably more than)
the need to communicate with tamil people. To point out one feature
of tomorrow's world - most projects will be carried on by teams
spread out in different parts of the world. If every country (or state)
insists on using its own language, what is known as
"Heterogenity" will become a big problem. Any design to be done
over this heterogenous platform has to take into consideration
the widely-varying nature of the individual platforms. Real-time
communication between English and Tamil speaking people will be
an impossibility. Good scientific works can not be read until they
are translated, and translation has its limitations.
Of course, all that will not happen if we are experts in both
Tamil and English, which, definitely, is achievable only by
a few among us. English-knowing Tamil will have an edge
over Tamil-only-knowing Tamil (who doesn't even understand 'fax').
What I am saying is that we must let language evolve in a way
suitable for the future (which will happen eventually,
whatever mistakes we do now). It is understandably a pleasure for
our brains to put together roots in Tamil words to arrive
at a complicated (yes it is complicated..people don't use
even tholaipEsi) terms for words like fax. But it is only a problem
for the lay man if such words come into official use. Not only
will he find it difficult to learn this new language (it IS new.
I read a joke in Vikatan once - the response of a Madrasi
to the question 'thabAl aluvalagathukku epdi pOradhu ?', is :
"Thamizhla sollunga saar"), but he will also find a communication
gap between himself and English-speaking people (including English
speaking Tamils).
We know there is nothing like mother-tongue. The idea is to make
the language-of-the-future our mothertongue. Language is a key
element in development. We ought to be a bit open-minded here.
Using one language at home and using another at work is certainly
going to be less productive than using what comes naturally to you
for work.
--
Kannan Thiruvengadam
kan...@cs.ualberta.ca
http://web.cs.ualberta.ca/~kannan
Kannan Thiruvengadam
: selv...@sun14.vlsi.uwaterloo.ca (C. R. Selvakumar) writes:
: >We can also form verbal expressions like 'tholai_varainthEn'
: >'tholai_padi viduththEn' , tholai_ezhuthinEn'
: >tholaipEsinEn = I phoned
: >ammaavOdu tholai pEsinEn = I phoned mother
: Excellent!
: Writer Sujatha (Mr. Rengarajan) invented 'payaNiththal' which means
: 'travelling'. He invented many other words which are now commonly is
'prayANam seydhal, payaNam mERkoLLal' are there already.
I am sure people like kalki and sANdilyan must have used
single words for travelling (Their writings look as if they has
no problem whatsoever in expressing what themselves, which gives
me the impression all what was needed by them was already available
in Tamil).
: use by other writers. I am able to recall only this word (and perhaps
: 'madhyamar' - middle class people). Do you remember any other such
: words ?
'n^aduththara varkkam' is there. (I am not sure if this
means middleclass people, though). Ezhai, kudiyAnavan are for the
poor people and sImAn, selvandhan for rich people.
This whole idea of classification of the society into
upper, middle and low classes is based on wealth isn't it ?
: _J._Prakash
IRUTHAYANATHAN, RICHARD A.
jaya...@sal-sun109.usc.edu (Prakash Jayaraman) writes...
>selv...@sun14.vlsi.uwaterloo.ca (C. R. Selvakumar) writes:
>>We can also form verbal expressions like 'tholai_varainthEn'
>>'tholai_padi viduththEn' , tholai_ezhuthinEn'
>>tholaipEsinEn = I phoned
>>ammaavOdu tholai pEsinEn = I phoned mother
>
>Excellent!
>
>Writer Sujatha (Mr. Rengarajan) invented 'payaNiththal' which means
very strange idea about invention ' payaNiththal '.
This word is very common in Eelam, and person who does 'payaNiththal'
is called ' payaNi'.
May be Sujatha is using this word[again] , where as others
forgot it in TN.
>'travelling'. He invented many other words which are now commonly is
>use by other writers. I am able to recall only this word (and perhaps
>'madhyamar' - middle class people). Do you remember any other such
--------------------
maththiya thara varkkaththinar.
>
>_J._Prakash
PV Viswanath
>In article <sas.11....@orre.sin.no>, Sasi.S <s...@orre.sin.no> wrote:
>>
>>Vanakkam nannparhale !
>>
>>I am looking for a tamil word for " fax ". If anyone have any idea please send
>>me a mail.
> Some of the possibilities are:
> [1] faaksu
> [2] tholai_varai [ varai = varaivu ]
> [3] tholai_padi ( = telecopier)
> [4] tholai_ezhuththu ( 'ezhuththu' includes the meanings of 'drawing,
> any picture' etc. It was also used for 'painting'
>
I have been using tholai_piRathi, just as I use piRathi for copy. This is
similar to the other suggestion to use tholai_nakal, since nakal means
copy. Both this, and my suggestions are modified calques from the English,
since facsimile means 'copy.' However, since we have to distinguish between
fax and copy, and since we have a bunch of words with tholai (tele-) already,
this seems most reasonable.
Pla. Ve. Vi.
--
P.V. Viswanath, Graduate School of Management, Rutgers University
92 New Street, Newark, NJ 07102.
Tel: (201) 648-5899; Fax: (201) 648-1459; email: pvis...@andromeda.rutgers.edu
Selvaraj Ramasamy
>C. R. Selvakumar (selv...@sun14.vlsi.uwaterloo.ca) wrote:
>: Some of the possibilities are:
>: [1] faaksu
>: [2] tholai_varai [ varai = varaivu ]
>Why is it necessary to come up with some word for fax ?
Why not ?
>what is wrong in using 'fax' ? We know that most (all?) people in
>Tamil Nadu say 'office' for office and not 'aluvalagam'.
>It does serve the purpose doesn't it ?
Although in my opinion, there is nothing wrong in
accepting a word from a different language into
Tamil, I would still encourage people who attempt
to find Tamil equivalents. One has a right to
use a non-Tamil word in Tamil. But I agree with others
who see a need to find Tamil equivalents. Atleast they
try. I myself try to use mostly tamil words in some of
the letters that I write. (Although I take the risk of
sounding archaic sometimes !)
It is much easier to use Tamil equivalents in written
form than in the spoken form. (Making use of the differences
between the 'urainadaith thamizh' and 'pEchchuth thamizh).
For e.g., in spoken form I would have asked my friend,
" Enunga krishnamoorthy, unga 'dissertation' vElai eppadip
poguthu ?"
In written form, my friend had once written in a letter
as follows,
" ennudaya Ph.D aayvup_paNith_thirattai intha varuda
iRuthikkuL mudiththuviduvEn enRu eNNukiREn "
There I learnt a new word in Tamil. (Or came to know
of the existence of that particular word in Tamil). So,
its just by use that a word 'lives' or 'dies'. If one
feels that by trying to use a word which is going to
die anyway, we are trying in vain - Well, that's just
one point of view. We don't have to accept any other
non-Tamil word, just because there are no equivalents
in Tamil at that time. Lets try to see if it can be
represented in Tamil. If not, then go ahead and accept the
new word.
>We know there is nothing like mother-tongue. The idea is to make
~~~~~~~~~
>the language-of-the-future our mothertongue. Language is a key
I guess this is just your view. You are not trying
to say that everyone should agree with yours, are you ?
>--
>Kannan Thiruvengadam
Cheers,
Selvaraj.
08 Nov 94.
PS 1: \bt ithu oru vairamuthu kavithaiyin karuththu
eppadiyum iRakkap pOkiRathE enbathaRkaaka
piRakkiRa kuzhandhaiyai -
enthath thaayum
konRuviduvathillai..
\et
PS 2: I still use the words \bt aluvalagam, mugavari \et
etc., atleast in my written Tamil. I have seen such
usage in many government offices. For eg. \bt
vattaatchiar aluvalagam, \et etc.
PS 3: I have interestingly observed that most people from
eezham use more Tamil words and equivalents for words
that have been replaced by other non-Tamil words in
Indian-Tamil.
--
University of Louisville
C.R.Selvakumar - Electrical Engineering
PV Viswanath <pvis...@andromeda.rutgers.edu> wrote:
>selv...@sun14.vlsi.uwaterloo.ca (C. R. Selvakumar) writes:
>
>>In article <sas.11....@orre.sin.no>, Sasi.S <s...@orre.sin.no> wrote:
>>>
>>>Vanakkam nannparhale !
>>>
>>>I am looking for a tamil word for " fax ". If anyone have any idea please send
>>>me a mail.
>
>> Some of the possibilities are:
>
>> [1] faaksu
>> [2] tholai_varai [ varai = varaivu ]
>> [3] tholai_padi ( = telecopier)
>> [4] tholai_ezhuththu ( 'ezhuththu' includes the meanings of 'drawing,
>> any picture' etc. It was also used for 'painting'
>>
>
>I have been using tholai_piRathi, just as I use piRathi for copy. This is
>similar to the other suggestion to use tholai_nakal, since nakal means
>copy. Both this, and my suggestions are modified calques from the English,
>since facsimile means 'copy.' However, since we have to distinguish between
>fax and copy, and since we have a bunch of words with tholai (tele-) already,
>this seems most reasonable.
padi is same as pirathi. For a tamil, padi will be more easy than
pirathi. But based on the possible verbal-forms with 'varai, ezhuthu',
they seem to be better suited because with 'padi' we have to say
'tholaipadi viduththEn'. We can say tholaivarainthEn = I faxed,
tholaiyezhuthinEn = I faxed.
>
>Pla. Ve. Vi.
>P.V. Viswanath, Graduate School of Management, Rutgers University
anbudan -selvaa
C.R.Selvakumar - Electrical Engineering
Kannan Thiruvengadam <kan...@nisku.cs.ualberta.ca> wrote:
>C. R. Selvakumar (selv...@sun14.vlsi.uwaterloo.ca) wrote:
>
>: Some of the possibilities are:
>
>: [1] faaksu
>: [2] tholai_varai [ varai = varaivu ]
>: [3] tholai_padi ( = telecopier)
>: [4] tholai_ezhuththu ( 'ezhuththu' includes the meanings of 'drawing,
>: any picture' etc. It was also used for 'painting'
>:
>
>Why is it necessary to come up with some word for fax ?
>what is wrong in using 'fax' ? We know that most (all?) people in
>Tamil Nadu say 'office' for office and not 'aluvalagam'.
>It does serve the purpose doesn't it ?
Please see that I've indicated that 'faaksu' is also a possibility.
There are good reasons why we should not hesitate to coin and use
good tamil words. I had explained many times why it is necessary to
coin tamil words ( I agree you were not active on this net then).
Every language group people including English
speakers do that. English is a trend setter no doubt. Japanese has some
influence, German has some influence and French had a major influence
sometime ago but not so much today.
In some quarters 'infobahn' is more popular than 'information highway'.
We find words like 'infotainment', 'edutainment' are being created
on an ongoing basis. When we show the willingness to learn new english
words, why is it that we are reluctant to accept new tamil words ?
Every language speaking group has to coin words that
are more readily comprehensible for its population.
The 'educated' people think it is below their dignity to speak
tamil words. This is the problem.
Well, you may argue that we can all become english-speakers and
we can totally forget tamil. But I think it would be a great mistake.
With todays technology, with more and and more literature coming out
( are going to come out) in electronic form, it would be quite
easy to have automatic translations done. I think we are moving
into a technological world where multiple langauges can flourish with
dynamic near equal modernity. Linguistic diversity is going to be
a joy with minimal difficulties of inter-communication.
Technological progress is going to be more globally spread out.
>
>In a rapidly developing world, the need to communicate with
>non-tamil speaking people is as much as (or probably more than)
>the need to communicate with tamil people. To point out one feature
>of tomorrow's world - most projects will be carried on by teams
>spread out in different parts of the world. If every country (or state)
>insists on using its own language, what is known as
>"Heterogenity" will become a big problem. Any design to be done
>over this heterogenous platform has to take into consideration
>the widely-varying nature of the individual platforms. Real-time
>communication between English and Tamil speaking people will be
>an impossibility. Good scientific works can not be read until they
>are translated, and translation has its limitations.
Read above.
>
>Of course, all that will not happen if we are experts in both
>Tamil and English, which, definitely, is achievable only by
>a few among us. English-knowing Tamil will have an edge
>over Tamil-only-knowing Tamil (who doesn't even understand 'fax').
I differ. In the longer run, such will not be the case.
I believe that with the progress in technology, it would
be relatively a simple matter to have all the literature available
in english or other languages to be readily available in another
language. It may appear too romantic, but it is really a matter of
time.
>
>What I am saying is that we must let language evolve in a way
>suitable for the future (which will happen eventually,
>whatever mistakes we do now). It is understandably a pleasure for
>our brains to put together roots in Tamil words to arrive
>at a complicated (yes it is complicated..people don't use
>even tholaipEsi) terms for words like fax. But it is only a problem
It is not anymore complicated than fascimile, telecopier, telefax
etc. I've heard people saying 'ungaLa ammaa teebOnlE koopadraaga'
but the person can very well say 'ungaLa amma tholaipEsilE
kUppadaRaanga'. Say it two or three times and see how 'natural
it sounds. Our 'educated' people are shy of talking in tamil
because their 'status of an educated person in the society'
depends on these 'english' words. It is just their imagination.
If they say tholaipEsi a few times nothing it will not
look 'odd'. People have used 'viLakku' before but today
people use 'light'. Use viLakku in place of light a few times, and
you'll notice that it is 'natural'.
>for the lay man if such words come into official use. Not only
>will he find it difficult to learn this new language (it IS new.
>I read a joke in Vikatan once - the response of a Madrasi
>to the question 'thabAl aluvalagathukku epdi pOradhu ?', is :
>"Thamizhla sollunga saar"), but he will also find a communication
Such ridicule is not unusual. Even illiterate ( in tamil) will
understand the above. But no one might ask like that.
They may ask 'thabaal aapeesukku eppadi pORathu'
but one can also ask 'anchalakaththukku eppadip pORathu'.
>gap between himself and English-speaking people (including English
>speaking Tamils).
>
>We know there is nothing like mother-tongue. The idea is to make
>the language-of-the-future our mothertongue. Language is a key
>element in development. We ought to be a bit open-minded here.
If you want to become an English-speaking person thats fine. I think
what we need at this point is to be knowledgeable in English.
No language on earth now has such wealth of knowledge as English has.
But almost all of it will be available in electronic format in
the next 10-20 years and there are ways and means of making these
available in tamil ( or any other enterprising langauge speaking group).
if you think about it.
Without computer, microelectronics, and the associated technologies,
we might have to all become english-speakers, but not with these
powerful tools. What we need is an ability to think constructively
and a willingness to care for our culture and its contribute to its
healthy growth.
>
>Using one language at home and using another at work is certainly
>going to be less productive than using what comes naturally to you
>for work.
I envision that it would be possible to carry on work in tamil and yet
be aware of and benefit from world happenings. In the years ahead,
many routine things will be done by machines and systems and more
creative and intellectually demanding thigns will be required of humans.
( today even a grand master of chess can be beaten by a computer !)
Ideas and creativity and sharpness of perception etc. will be more
valuable and these can be spring up from any language-speaking group.
>
>--
>Kannan Thiruvengadam
>kan...@cs.ualberta.ca
>http://web.cs.ualberta.ca/~kannan
anbudan -selvaa
Sasi.S
>From: selv...@sun14.vlsi.uwaterloo.ca (C. R. Selvakumar)
>Subject: Re: Tamil Word ******!
>Date: Mon, 7 Nov 1994 23:11:29 GMT
>In article <sas.11....@orre.sin.no>, Sasi.S <s...@orre.sin.no> wrote:
>>
>>Vanakkam nannparhale !
>>
>>I am looking for a tamil word for " fax ". If anyone have any idea please send
>>me a mail.
> Some of the possibilities are:
> [1] faaksu
It is not always easy to use tamil words as " faaksu". I read in a book about
those tamil words and what happend to them :
1) First it was named
" Hamilton Bridge "
Then it was written in tamil
" hamildan vaaravathi " with sanskrit "ha"
someone who want to use pure tamil wrote
" amildan varavathi "
Then it became
" amdan varavathi " -> " ampaddan varavathi "
finally
" Barber's bridge "
2) Main guard square -> " mEngkaadduppoddal "
3) MacDonald's choultry -> " mhudan chavadi "
sasi.s