Another Tamil dialect
Kannan Thiruvengadam
: Hi netters,
: For instance, in my family, we say "saaptiyA?" for having a meal/snack
: and "(idli/dosa/whatever) thinnayA/thinnutiya?" for having a snack. My
: roommate is a Tamil from Mysore and for her, asking "thinnutiyA" is an
: insult :-). Apparently, it has a bad connotation - like stealing something
: and eating, or eating what you aren't supposed to. I found this hilarious
: especially when she said with an ominous look on her face, "thinnutiyA" ?
Well, how about 'thunnutiyA' ?
Also, I have never heard 'thinnu' used
alone. 'thinnu thIthuttiyA ?' is how it comes.
: There are other fun things one can do with dialects - like for
: instance, back in my undergrad days my roommate was from Tiruppur.
: Once when she said "onRa book kudEn" - though I perfectly understood
: what she meant, I retorted saying "oru book thAn kudukka mudiyum - oNra
: book-kku (1.5 book) nAn engE pOvEn ?" :-).
Pretty smart (I don't mean it, btw).
: Then again one of my cousins used to tease a friend of his from
: another place, calling "elE elE" - when the guy responds, saying "unnai
: kooppidala, nAn elaiya (leaf) kooppittEn" :-).
Smartness again. (You know what I mean)
: At times, we do get stumped with some words we aren't familiar
: with. A Palghat Tamil once asked me "enna nee - idhellAm cheyyaNdAmA?"
: - I was totally stumped. Then the person explained that "cheyyaNdAmA"
: is really "seyya vENdAmA?" - I later found out that Malayalees use
I would have guessed it right away, I think (with my context sensitive
distortion immune pattern recognition system, surely, I would have).
: this expression and Palghat Tamils sort of borrowed it. My brother,
: while doing his undergrad in Chidambaram, used to say that sometimes
: he had to listen very closely to follow what his classmates from the
: extreme south of TN (Tirunelveli, Kanyakumari etc) said. Even then he
: had trouble understanding things like "porakkAli" (same as puzhakkadai).
What is porakkAli ? What is puzhakkadai ?
: In fact, he said there were 3 guys - each from one corner of TN -
: in one of the rooms, and they had such a hard time following what each
: other said that they had termed that room "the language problem room" :-).
Jesus Christ ! I don't believe that..
: Madras Tamil (if one can call it Tamil :-)) has its own colorful
: expressions - like "innA baaa - oottula sollikkinu vandhiyA" (generally
I seriously wonder if is this language has been created for
making fun of Madras, or is there such a language really ?.
: used by lorry/PTC drivers, while addressing hapless pedestrians after
: they've driven the latter over to the edge of the road - it is supposed
: to mean "did you tell your folks you were planning to die today?" or some
: such :-)).
I am finding it difficult to control my laugh. Believe me.
(if you know what I mean)
: Then again is the hilarious expression "daay kasmAlam, nenjila
: irukkara manjaa sOththa eduppEnDaaa" (heard in street squabbles, along
Sounds like the vasanam 'Loose Mohan' is compelled to speak.
Again, do people in Madras really speak this way ?
: with other colorful expressions that are unprintable). Then if you ask a
: Madrasi worker for directions you'll get something like "nErA pOyi
: galeecka pOnA..."etc. To this day I don't know what "galeecka" means.
Me neither. I haven't heard it, anyways.
: How about starting a new thread on what the special usages are
: in the place one comes from and/or people's experiences with other Tamil
: dialects - their understanding or the lack of it ? And please, let this
Oh sure ! Why not ?
: remain casteless.
Well..Brahmins do have a special dialect.
There, 'avA' is third person singular/plural subject.
Also, 'pAl kAttum vikudhi' doesn't really show the gender.
'AL' is the third person vikudhi for all 'pAl's. ('thOppanAr
vandhuttALA?'). 'EL' is the second person
vikudhi for all 'pAl's ('EnnA apdi morachchi pAkkarEL?').
Both these vikudhis are used for panmai and uyarvup panmai.
I understand that in all cases (except the subjective case) the
noun that means 'house' takes the form 'Aththu..'.
('aduththAththu ambujaththap pAththELA ? ava
AththukkArar konjuradha kEttELA ?')
What is the word for 'house' (I mean the subjective case). ('ARu' ?)
I have also noticed that kuRRiyalukaram is quite not
kuRRiyalukaram in this dialect. The 'u' in 'vandhuttELA'
is pronounced with one full mAththirai.
'piLLayAndAn tharkolai panninduttAn' always makes me laugh !
'varachchE', 'pOrachchE'..are other things that come to mind.
I am sure there are other peculiarities too, to this dialect.
Must be interesting. And why does this, stay the same, in all parts
of Tamil Nadu ? Or does it ?
: Cheers,
: Gayathri.
--
Kannan Thiruvengadam
kan...@cs.ualberta.ca
http://web.cs.ualberta.ca/~kannan
Gayathri Krishnamurthy
> Gayathri Krishnamurthy (gaya...@en.ecn.purdue.edu) wrote:
>
> Well, how about 'thunnutiyA' ?
>
> Also, I have never heard 'thinnu' used
> alone. 'thinnu thIthuttiyA ?' is how it comes.
That sounds about right. I think generally "sOru thingiRan" has a bad
connotation - but people in some places extend this to eating everything.
> : Once when she said "onRa book kudEn" - though I perfectly understood
> : what she meant, I retorted saying "oru book thAn kudukka mudiyum - oNra
> : book-kku (1.5 book) nAn engE pOvEn ?" :-).
>
> Pretty smart (I don't mean it, btw).
Thank you *bow* (I don't mean it, btw)
> : Then again one of my cousins used to tease a friend of his from
> : another place, calling "elE elE" - when the guy responds, saying "unnai
> : kooppidala, nAn elaiya (leaf) kooppittEn" :-).
>
> Smartness again. (You know what I mean)
Thank you again (You know what I mean)
> : At times, we do get stumped with some words we aren't familiar
> : with. A Palghat Tamil once asked me "enna nee - idhellAm cheyyaNdAmA?"
> : - I was totally stumped. Then the person explained that "cheyyaNdAmA"
> : is really "seyya vENdAmA?" - I later found out that Malayalees use
>
> I would have guessed it right away, I think (with my context sensitive
> distortion immune pattern recognition system, surely, I would have).
Trouble was, this person spoke too fast and had a MalayaLi-ish accent.
I was about 10 or 12 then.
> What is porakkAli ? What is puzhakkadai ?
I think it means "backyard" and in some cases "toilet".
> : In fact, he said there were 3 guys - each from one corner of TN -
> : in one of the rooms, and they had such a hard time following what each
> : other said that they had termed that room "the language problem room" :-).
>
> Jesus Christ ! I don't believe that..
See some of the recent Bharathiraja movies - like "kizhakku cheemayilE"
(I didn't watch fully - bad video) - I had to listen pretty closely
since the dialect was unfamiliar.
> : Madras Tamil (if one can call it Tamil :-)) has its own colorful
> : expressions - like "innA baaa - oottula sollikkinu vandhiyA" (generally
>
> I seriously wonder if is this language has been created for
> making fun of Madras, or is there such a language really ?.
Nope. This "sollikinu vandhiya" is common usage esp with bus/lorry
drivers for pedestrians who (they think) made a wrong judgement while
crossing a road etc.
> : used by lorry/PTC drivers, while addressing hapless pedestrians after
> : they've driven the latter over to the edge of the road - it is supposed
> : to mean "did you tell your folks you were planning to die today?" or some
> : such :-)).
>
> I am finding it difficult to control my laugh. Believe me.
> (if you know what I mean)
No I don't (why do you write "you know what I mean" all over the place
- if you know what I mean :-))
> : Then again is the hilarious expression "daay kasmAlam, nenjila
> : irukkara manjaa sOththa eduppEnDaaa" (heard in street squabbles, along
>
> Sounds like the vasanam 'Loose Mohan' is compelled to speak.
> Again, do people in Madras really speak this way ?
Yes, the working class does. I heard this "manjaa sOru" expression
this time when I went home for summer. My mother winces everytime
she hears this and says she loses her appetite :-). [oh, don't give
me the smartness thing again].
Another Madrasi usage (not just by the working class) is "en kaiyila
sonnAn" (he told me). I find this amusing - a classmate used this
freely and I once teased her by examining her palm soon after :-)
>
> : remain casteless.
>
> Well..Brahmins do have a special dialect.
Yes, I was aware of that. But I hope including that in the
discussion doesn't degenerate to B.Bashing.
>
> I understand that in all cases (except the subjective case) the
> noun that means 'house' takes the form 'Aththu..'.
> ('aduththAththu ambujaththap pAththELA ? ava
> AththukkArar konjuradha kEttELA ?')
> What is the word for 'house' (I mean the subjective case). ('ARu' ?)
"agam" (where did this word come from) ?
> 'piLLayAndAn tharkolai panninduttAn' always makes me laugh !
> 'varachchE', 'pOrachchE'..are other things that come to mind.
Yeah, "paNNinduttiyA" sounds funny. I think this "duttiya/duttan"
stuff is kind of sarcastic/lugubrious humor/whatever.
>
> I am sure there are other peculiarities too, to this dialect.
> Must be interesting. And why does this, stay the same, in all parts
> of Tamil Nadu ? Or does it ?
In Palghat they say "paNrAi" "varAi" "enna seyya pOrAi nee" etc ?
Yup, just like Kamal's dialect in "Michael Madana...". I'm sure
there are regional variations to this too.
Cheers,
Gayathri.
Ganesh Vaidee
> In Palghat they say "paNrAi" "varAi" "enna seyya pOrAi nee" etc ?
> Yup, just like Kamal's dialect in "Michael Madana...". I'm sure
> there are regional variations to this too.
> Cheers,
> Gayathri.
And then, there is the thuthukudi dialect .. very well portrayed by Nagesh
in "ANubavu Raja Anubavi". Words like "Vaarihala", "embuttu", "etnooru" etc
--
When things are going bad, just think, it could be worse ..
Kannan Thiruvengadam
: Just as the original poster feared, Kannan in my opinion
: has posted a very asinine followup. He could have very
: well made his point avoiding the personal attacks and
: certain comments which only he thinks as intelligent
: remarks. It is quite commendable that Gayatri replied to
: him in a nice manner.
I agree. Thanks to Gayathri for being nice.
Thanks to others for understanding and forgiving.
Thanks to myself for teaching myself a lesson.
Kannan Thiruvengadam
: But goes on to invoke the B word as:
I am sorry I did whatever I did. But I have to clarify a few
of your doubts. Using the word Brahmin by itself can not be
wrong. That would mean the existance of the word Brahmin also is wrong.
It would have been wrong had I made a comment about the people
who belong to that caste, which I did not do.
(BTW, why do you say 'B-word' ??!!)
: I seriously wonder if is this language has been created for
: making fun of Bs, or is there such a language really? (Kannan !
I think there IS such a language. You should know better.
: > vikudhi for all 'pAl's ('EnnA apdi morachchi pAkkarEL?').
: > Both these vikudhis are used for panmai and uyarvup panmai.
: Pretty smart (I don't mean it, btw). And Knowledgeable too !!
I am glad you didn't add a paranthesis for the knowledge part.
: > ('aduththAththu ambujaththap pAththELA ? ava
: > AththukkArar konjuradha kEttELA ?')
: Sounds like the song that 'Kaviarasu' wass compelled to write.
: Again, do people in this community really speak this way ?
: (Kannan ! I hope you caught on by now!!)
You felt hurt, and you are reacting - a little bit, over.
: > What is the word for 'house' (I mean the subjective case). ('ARu' ?)
: I am surprised you didn't guess it right away, given your context sensitive distortion immune pattern recognition system.
I am surprised, too.
: I always thought it was agam ( meaning 'house' in a language called
: Tamil spoken widely in South India, Sri Lanka, Singapore among
: other places)
Again, I have never seen/heard 'agam' being used. that is
the reason.
: > I have also noticed that kuRRiyalukaram is quite not
: > kuRRiyalukaram in this dialect. The 'u' in 'vandhuttELA'
: > is pronounced with one full mAththirai.
: Smartness again. (You know what I mean)
I damn well know what you mean.
: > 'piLLayAndAn tharkolai panninduttAn' always makes me laugh !
: I am finding it difficult to control my laugh. Believe me.
: (if you know what I mean)
Well.. you got me here. When I responded that way to Gayathri,
it was more like teasing a friend. I understand it is hard to be
understood correctly through text medium. I think you have
made me pay for the lesson I learnt.
: What is varachchE ? What is pOrachchE ? Why do these and other things
: come to your mind ..
Assocative nature of memory, maybe ?
: [deleted..]
It's interesting, more than alarming, how much offence
people can take out of nothing. I apologize again, nevertheless,
to all those who felt hurt by my follow-up. I do think
a little highly of myself, but for all we know, that
is probably correct :) (you know what I mean)
I never meant any offence, and as I now understand
offence is something that can be received without even
being sent.
Also, this is my chance to tell you that what we ought
to do is NOT stop uttering any word that concerns with caste.
We ought to come to terms with the difference. We have to
be able to talk about all different things (caste including)
but still feel comfortable with the talk. It is true that
brahmins do have a dialect of their own - stating this
is not finding fault with them or giving rise to a caste
based difference between people. My curiosity was about the
widespread nature of this dialect, and its being caste-based
rather than region based (which is what all other dialects are).
(While all other people in a particular region use a dialect,
how could Brahmins use a different one ? And how could this
'different' one, manage to be the same in different regions ?)
Since examples form the essence of any talk on dialect, I had
to give some examples, and I wrote what was interesting to me.
C. R. Selvakumar
Gayathri Krishnamurthy <gaya...@en.ecn.purdue.edu> wrote:
>In article <397l5j$f...@scapa.cs.ualberta.ca>, kan...@nisku.cs.ualberta.ca (Kannan Thiruvengadam) writes:
>> Gayathri Krishnamurthy (gaya...@en.ecn.purdue.edu) wrote:
>>
>> Well, how about 'thunnutiyA' ?
>>
>> Also, I have never heard 'thinnu' used
>> alone. 'thinnu thIthuttiyA ?' is how it comes.
>
>That sounds about right. I think generally "sOru thingiRan" has a bad
>connotation - but people in some places extend this to eating everything.
Yes, 'thinnuttiyaa, muzhinguttiyaa' etc. will mean 'have you stolen,
or without due regard to sharing with others have you used all of it'
and the like. The 'etc' will include 'saapittutyaa', 'azhuththittyaa',
'abaLIkaram paNNityaa', 'Eppam vittutyaa' and so on.
[..]
>
>> What is porakkAli ? What is puzhakkadai ?
>
>I think it means "backyard" and in some cases "toilet".
The correct word is 'puzhaikkadai'. puzhai means 'hole, a door-way'
puzhaikkadai means back-door and by 'aakupeyar' extension of meaning
refers to backyard. This was/is a very popular word used in many
communities. This is still used in villages in Salem, Trichy
areas.
[..]
>
>> : Then again is the hilarious expression "daay kasmAlam, nenjila
>> : irukkara manjaa sOththa eduppEnDaaa" (heard in street squabbles, along
'kasmaalam' comes from kasadu = azhukku ( sediment, wasteproduct),
and 'malam' 'left over, useless, waste-product, shit'
nejaankulai must have got transformed as this or
it might have been 'nenjaa(n) sORRiyai > nenjaa sOththa'.
The word 'sORRi' means 'soft inner part' exactly as 'innard'.
The SOFT inner bark of some trees and the inner soft
inner part of 'thattuk kuchchi' are called 'sORRi'.
The inner part of 'nel' ( i.e. arisi) when it gets
swollen and becomes soft after cooking becomes sORu.
sORRup panai means a palm tree which is not a strong one.
Even the word 'soththai' = which has lost its strength comes
from this.
[ 'soRRu' > soththai ( also sottai) and 'soRRu' means
'kuRaivu' = 'having lost', 'short of', 'devoid of'
and it can also mean 'vaRRuthal' as in 'sonRi = vaRRal, inji,
sukku' ]
[..]
>
>Another Madrasi usage (not just by the working class) is "en kaiyila
>sonnAn" (he told me). I find this amusing - a classmate used this
>freely and I once teased her by examining her palm soon after :-)
Well, 'kai' simply means 'idam'. There are many meanings
for this word 'kai' ( such as branch, energy, 'by the side of'
party or group etc. etc. )
'un kaiyilE sonnEn' is a very grammatical good tamil.
>
>"agam" (where did this word come from) ?
'agam' means house among other meanings. marunthakam means
pharmacy. uNavakam means an 'eating place'.
vIdu, manai, illam, il, kudil, agam are some of the words for
house. ( araNmanai = palace - literally means protected house)
>
>Cheers,
>Gayathri.
anbudan -selvaa
Parthasarati Dileepan
gaya...@en.ecn.purdue.edu (Gayathri Krishnamurthy) writes:
>
>I'm sure brahmins from other districts have their own dialect
>too.
>
Some of my relatives are from ThirunelvEli and their
dialect is significantly different from our KumbakONam/
Thanjavoor dialect. Further, Brahmins do not form a
monolithic group. Iyer and Iyengar dialects differ in
many ways.
BTW, for KMU Iyengars embLathu = eNbathu.
Start counting embLatthoNNu, embLathreNdu, ... to
see how funny it is. :-)
Is embLathu common for all in KMU or just Iyengars?
Why is 90, thoNNooru and not thoNpathu?
P. Dileepan
V. Nagarajan
Gayathri Krishnamurthy <gaya...@en.ecn.purdue.edu> wrote:
...
>*NOT* the only difference) which is quite characteristic,
>the KumbakONam dialect (people use 'enna Oi?' etc and also
>'inja' for 'ingE' - Thi.Janakiraman in his 'mOgamuL' has
>used this dialect throughout).
Or, ennavE!
EmbLadhu - can any one guess what this means?
- Nagarajan
Rajagopalan Kannan
>
> Why is 90, thoNNooru and not thoNpathu?
>
ad infinitum because 9000 is Onbathayiram and not thoNNorayiram.
--
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V. Nagarajan
Parthasarati Dileepan <MF...@utcvm.utc.edu> wrote:
....
> Some of my relatives are from ThirunelvEli and their
> dialect is significantly different from our KumbakONam/
> Thanjavoor dialect. Further, Brahmins do not form a
> monolithic group. Iyer and Iyengar dialects differ in
> many ways.
>
> BTW, for KMU Iyengars embLathu = eNbathu.
> Start counting embLatthoNNu, embLathreNdu, ... to
> see how funny it is. :-)
> Is embLathu common for all in KMU or just Iyengars?
>
restricted to any community or group. We also call two of the
well-known places thiruvAlUr and thirsinap(p)aLLi; something
about dogs and tails that we must like! KumbakoNam of course is
kummONam. I am sure there are a thousand such nuances. We also
refer to a particular event as having happened in "thLAyiratthu
nAppatthezhula", etc. This could be true of anywhere in TN - i don't
know.
Regarding 'brahmin dialect', while there may be local variations,
that there is such a thing distinct from other local dialects
is a transparent fact. How this has endured is hard to speculate
on. Maybe it a mix of whatever the AriyargaL spoke and tamil ;-)
- Nagarajan
Gayathri Krishnamurthy
> In article <398bpi$n...@mozo.cc.purdue.edu>,
> Gayathri Krishnamurthy <gaya...@en.ecn.purdue.edu> wrote:
> >> : Then again is the hilarious expression "daay kasmAlam, nenjila
> >> : irukkara manjaa sOththa eduppEnDaaa" (heard in street squabbles, along
>
> 'kasmaalam' comes from kasadu = azhukku ( sediment, wasteproduct),
> and 'malam' 'left over, useless, waste-product, shit'
>
> nejaankulai must have got transformed as this or
> it might have been 'nenjaa(n) sORRiyai > nenjaa sOththa'.
> The word 'sORRi' means 'soft inner part' exactly as 'innard'.
> The SOFT inner bark of some trees and the inner soft
> inner part of 'thattuk kuchchi' are called 'sORRi'.
> The inner part of 'nel' ( i.e. arisi) when it gets
> swollen and becomes soft after cooking becomes sORu.
Interesting. Maybe I should pay more attention to Madras Tamil.
[..]
> >
> >Another Madrasi usage (not just by the working class) is "en kaiyila
> >sonnAn" (he told me). I find this amusing - a classmate used this
> >freely and I once teased her by examining her palm soon after :-)
>
> Well, 'kai' simply means 'idam'. There are many meanings
> for this word 'kai' ( such as branch, energy, 'by the side of'
> party or group etc. etc. )
>
> 'un kaiyilE sonnEn' is a very grammatical good tamil.
All this while I only thought 'kai' = hand, palm etc. In that case, 'un
kaiyilE kuduthEn' originally might have meant 'un idaththil koduththEn'
and since the receiver takes it with his/her hand, it must, by extension
have meant hand as well. I'm just guessing.
Cheers,
Gayathri.
P.S: Just curious - the Muslim dialect - be it Tamil, MalayaLam whatever
has some unique words too and I'm guessing that some might have been
borrowed from Persian/Urdu. I was reading a novel by ThOppil Muhammad
Meeran a few months ago (couldn't finish it) - it was about a fishing
village (forgot title as well) - but the Tamil in it had a lot of
MalayALam words (maybe because this was set in TirunelvEli or
further south?). The dialect itself was very different from what I come
across normally. Can some nettor familiar with this dialect and/or of
Muslim birth post some unique usages ? Also, is the Muslim dialect same
across all places in Tamil Nadu (my guess is 'no') ?
Balaji Thirumalaikumara
Have any of you heared Bangalore Iyengars (called Hebbar Iyengars)
speak Tamil. Its the funniest thing on earth. They mix kannada
and Tamil and "Kolai Pannify Tamil" (to put in mildly in Tanglish).
For example, Bega in Kannada means fast (Similar to Vegam),
and when I visted some relative in Mysore, she said
"Baeg Baegum Vanduttingo, Bus Kadichirkarna Ankanden".
I was ROFL ( Rolling on the Floor, Laughing!). She meant
"Beag Begam"-> "Sigirama", "vanduttingo" ->" vandirukkireergal"
"Kadaichirkarna" -> "Kidaithirukkum" "Ankanden" -> "Enni Konden".
They add a "karna" to a lot of verbs. "Irkarna" is "Irukkiradu", I guess.
Its an absolute riot when some relative of mine who's from Bangalore
comes to visit us in Madras. The way they talk in Public has me grinning
uncontrollably, and my mother giving me looks, lest I offend them...
You should have seen the look on an auto-driver when my relative
said " Luz Poi-kand-irkkom, Nee And-kade poikandirunda, Erkorum",
(meaning - Luz-zukku Poindu irukkom, nee anda pakkam poi-kkondu-irundal,
naangalum Yerika-roam ).
This one takes the cake for the funniest Tamil Dialect in my opinion.
Is there any nettor who speaks this dialect, who can shed some light
on this.
Balaji.
---
"Everything I need to know, I learnt on the Internet"
Kannan Thiruvengadam
: While on the subject of dialects...
: Have any of you heared Bangalore Iyengars (called Hebbar Iyengars)
: speak Tamil. Its the funniest thing on earth. They mix kannada
: and Tamil and "Kolai Pannify Tamil" (to put in mildly in Tanglish).
You bet. I think that is because they KNOW Kannada and think
that they know Tamil. While speaking Tamil, UdE UdE they use
lots of kannada words..and it doesn't make a real difference
because both the languages have the same grammar. It is their
araikorai knowledge of (what we call) Tamil, that forces them
to use lots of kannada words in between, which they are not
very conscious of.
While I was in Bangalore with a friend, we attempted learning
Kannada and pretty soon got the feeling that we knew quite a
bit of the language. This feeling gave us a confidence to
speak in Kannada when we went out. Once in the busstand, when
a stranger approached us and asked 'idhu Shivaji
Nagar hOguththA?', (Does this bus go to Shivaji Nagar?)
I heard a confident voice (my friend's) reply 'hOgAthu'. He (my friend)
had known 'pa' in Tamil is equivalent in 'ha' in kannada. From this
(limited) knowledge, he inferred 'pOgAthu' would be 'hOgAthu'.
Alas, 'hOguthillA' is what they say, in Kannada.
I learnt my bit from a second-grade girl. I had never even
imagined a kid would try to fool me. I asked her, 'While
standing in the bus, if you want to ask a fellow-passenger
to move a bit and make room for you to stand, what to say
to him?'. She said: 'mundhE hOgurI handhI'. It sounded
quite right to me. I would have used it, but for her
mother who came in and told me that it actually means
'Please move to your front, you swine!'. (handhI - swine;
mundhE - to your front; hOgurI - pOnga [uyarvup panmai]).
Hurt by the incident, I studied Kannada in a serious way,
and ended up with the feeling that some Tamil people
had moved over to the area which is now called karnataka
in the olden days, and for some crazy reason decided to
distort the language to have a language 'of their own'.
It's dead easy to learn kannada if you know Tamil..
one month of book work and about two months of speaking practice
should be enough to pass the Turing's test (make someone
believe that you know Kannada).
The script is practically the same for Kannada and Telugu
(it is different for very few letters). One who knows Kannada
can read Telugu just like that. I wonder why they had to put
so many jilEbi's inside though. You will feel as if you have
drawn a caterpillar..once you have finished drawing..oops !
writing your 'ya'. I don't have to say about 'yU'. It willl
look a caterpillar delivering a baby.
MalayALam script is very similar to Tamil script..even though
they have tried to place the lines and curves in a relatively
wider or narrower fashion. All four dravidian languages have
the same grammatical structure.People in Karnataka and
AP seem to use many HIndi words as part of their language.
Gayathri Krishnamurthy
> While on the subject of dialects...
>
> Have any of you heared Bangalore Iyengars (called Hebbar Iyengars)
> speak Tamil. Its the funniest thing on earth. They mix kannada
> and Tamil and "Kolai Pannify Tamil" (to put in mildly in Tanglish).
[...]
Agreed. It sounds pretty funny for people from TN.
> You should have seen the look on an auto-driver when my relative
> said " Luz Poi-kand-irkkom, Nee And-kade poikandirunda, Erkorum",
> (meaning - Luz-zukku Poindu irukkom, nee anda pakkam poi-kkondu-irundal,
> naangalum Yerika-roam ).
kade in Kannada is "pakkam" (as in ee-kade = indha pakkam). I guess
they just swipe off words from Kannada and add them to the Tamil
they speak. My favourite one was when a group of us were talking
about the riots after Rajiv Gandhi's assassination. And one of
them (a Hebbar Iyengar) began with "Rajiv Gandhi seththAgamElE orE
ragaLEppa.." :-).
(AmElE in Kannada = afterwards, soon after etc)
And they use "AmAvA?" for "appadiyA?". I guess this is a direct
translation for "avudhA" in Kannada.
Cheers,
Gayathri.
Somasundhar Venkatasubramanian
<...>
> And they use "AmAvA?" for "appadiyA?". I guess this is a direct
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Actually I have heard the next edition of the above!
...appadivA?? (AmAvA + appadiyA =...) :)
...and ofcourse laugh to the utter dismay of my neighbour.
(and out of my selfish interest I never told them why
I was laughing!) :) :)
> translation for "avudhA" in Kannada.
..oh BTW...maybe irrelevant, my neighbour is a very good
Kannada writer!! And a gratuitous observation would be
that quite a few Mysore tamils are good Kannada writers.
>
> Cheers,
> Gayathri.
>
<...>
--cheers
Somasundhar
PS : Gayathri...It was a nice thread..enjoyed lots of
articles on this one and ofcourse the one on
Tamil humorists!
Sankaran, Sam
puzhakkadai means "backyard" or \bt kollaippuRam."
>
> : In fact, he said there were 3 guys - each from one corner of TN -
> : in one of the rooms, and they had such a hard time following what each
> : other said that they had termed that room "the language problem room" :-).
>
> Jesus Christ ! I don't believe that..
>
> : Madras Tamil (if one can call it Tamil :-)) has its own colorful
> : expressions - like "innA baaa - oottula sollikkinu vandhiyA" (generally
>
> I seriously wonder if is this language has been created for
> making fun of Madras, or is there such a language really ?.
>
Yes. nainA, there is!
> : used by lorry/PTC drivers, while addressing hapless pedestrians after
> : they've driven the latter over to the edge of the road - it is supposed
> : to mean "did you tell your folks you were planning to die today?" or some
> : such :-)).
>
> I am finding it difficult to control my laugh. Believe me.
> (if you know what I mean)
>
> : Then again is the hilarious expression "daay kasmAlam, nenjila
> : irukkara manjaa sOththa eduppEnDaaa" (heard in street squabbles, along
>
> Sounds like the vasanam 'Loose Mohan' is compelled to speak.
> Again, do people in Madras really speak this way ?
>
> : with other colorful expressions that are unprintable). Then if you ask a
> : Madrasi worker for directions you'll get something like "nErA pOyi
> : galeecka pOnA..."etc. To this day I don't know what "galeecka" means.
>
See my earlier posting where I try to demystify ;-) 'galeecka'!
> Me neither. I haven't heard it, anyways.
>
> : How about starting a new thread on what the special usages are
> : in the place one comes from and/or people's experiences with other Tamil
> : dialects - their understanding or the lack of it ? And please, let this
>
> Oh sure ! Why not ?
>
> : remain casteless.
>
> Well..Brahmins do have a special dialect.
> There, 'avA' is third person singular/plural subject.
> Also, 'pAl kAttum vikudhi' doesn't really show the gender.
> 'AL' is the third person vikudhi for all 'pAl's. ('thOppanAr
> vandhuttALA?'). 'EL' is the second person
> vikudhi for all 'pAl's ('EnnA apdi morachchi pAkkarEL?').
> Both these vikudhis are used for panmai and uyarvup panmai.
>
> I understand that in all cases (except the subjective case) the
> noun that means 'house' takes the form 'Aththu..'.
> ('aduththAththu ambujaththap pAththELA ? ava
> AththukkArar konjuradha kEttELA ?')
> What is the word for 'house' (I mean the subjective case). ('ARu' ?)
>
\bt Am \et, a corruption of thooya thamizhchchol \bt akam \et.
> I have also noticed that kuRRiyalukaram is quite not
> kuRRiyalukaram in this dialect. The 'u' in 'vandhuttELA'
> is pronounced with one full mAththirai.
>
This is one of those cases where an accentless language puts an accent to
show different meaninings. For example, when the 'u' in 'vandhuttELA'
acquires full mAththirai, it implies surprise (Oh. I didn't notice your
had come (back)) or to show that speaker is glad (you) came or came back.
If the accent is on the last 'E' then it would imply either sarcasm or
displeasure ( Who expected you to come so early? Or why are you here or
back so early?) etc. No accent at all would imply just plain the
interrogative.
> 'piLLayAndAn tharkolai panninduttAn' always makes me laugh !
> 'varachchE', 'pOrachchE'..are other things that come to mind.
>
> I am sure there are other peculiarities too, to this dialect.
> Must be interesting. And why does this, stay the same, in all parts
> of Tamil Nadu ? Or does it ?
>
> : Cheers,
> : Gayathri.
>
> --
> Kannan Thiruvengadam
> kan...@cs.ualberta.ca
> http://web.cs.ualberta.ca/~kannan
Dr. S. SANKARAN
Faculty of Administration
University of Regina
REGINA, Saskatchewan
CANADA S4S 0A2.
Telephone: (306) 585-4988
FAX: (306) 585-4805
e-mail: SANK...@max.cc.uregina.ca