Citizen Converted to a Foreign Religion Are Not Patriotic
Vijaya
Christianity or Islam - foreign to the country of theirs- are not
loyal to the country they belong. In fact this is such a forceful
assertion that the foreign invaders of these two religion used this
fact to get the loyalities of the citizens of the conqured country by
converting them forcefully to the religion of the invaders.
It is the Muslims who originated this barbaric method and European
carried it to perfection.
This is true even today even the people who are converted to these
religions for financial or other reasons are acting as traitors to the
country they are living.
So a warning to the governments of Asia specially India and China:
beware of the citizens belonging to these two religions. If you are
looking for tritors look no further than them.
fanabba
History shows that organized conversion efforts are politically
motivated.
uNmaiviLambi
> So a warning to the governments of Asia specially India and China:
> beware of the citizens belonging to these two religions. If you are
> looking for tritors look no further than them.
You are so correct. Please continue your fight for freedom and dignity
Gobo
Therefore wich is the correct religion you belive must be used to
convert?
--
http://cuccona.myminicity.com/
--------------------------
Linux Debian - kernel 2.6.18-4-amd64
_________________________
http://xnews.newsguy.com/
P. Rajah
> History proves that people converted to a foreign religion like
> Christianity or Islam - foreign to the country of theirs- are not
> loyal to the country they belong.
So should Chinese be wary of Buddhists in their country?
> In fact this is such a forceful
> assertion that the foreign invaders of these two religion used this
> fact to get the loyalities of the citizens of the conqured country by
> converting them forcefully to the religion of the invaders.
And how should Australians view you?
ranjit_...@yahoo.com
> History proves that people converted to a foreign religion like
> Christianity or Islam - foreign to the country of theirs- are not
> loyal to the country they belong.
Then, the Azhwars were traitors. Since India wasn't one country at the
time, Vaishnavism was a foreign religion in Tamilnadu.
dmjo...@gmail.com
Are Kerala Christians converts like them around Anand in Gujarat or
those aroun Poona, or they started out like Parsis and then multiplied?
uNmaiviLambi
First of all, your idea that Bharat was terra nullius is itself a
colonial invention to exploit others. See:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terra_nullius
Colonialists exploited this everywhere. You repeat the same canard
Azhwars or Nayanmars and any Tamil poet Valluvar etc are all from
India!! India is a foreign name like Tomato is. That does not mean
India had no tomato or potato!
This is old nonsense perpetrated by colonialists and their supporters
Bharat had been a nation for ever. Hinduism is its core.
No argument will change that be it christian or muslim goondaism
We have been diminished because of these barbarians
We have to rise and stop not till the goal is reached
ModerateMallu
A flawed argument, IMO. Firstly, it insults the memory of people who
have laid down their lives in defending the country. You may argue that
the number is small, but the fact remains that when the time came,
religion did not matter - loyalty to the land was all. Secondly, it
makes it sound like Hindus are extremely loyal. Ever wonder who let D
Company explosives get into Bombay in 1993? Find out.
ranjit_...@yahoo.com
> On Sep 29, 7:10 am, "ranjit_math...@yahoo.com"
>
> <ranjit_math...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > On Sep 29, 3:30 am, Vijaya <addercr...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > Then, the Azhwars were traitors. Since India wasn't one country at the
> > time, Vaishnavism was a foreign religion in Tamilnadu.
>
> First of all, your idea that Bharat was terra nullius is itself a
> colonial invention to exploit others. See:
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terra_nullius
>
> Colonialists exploited this everywhere. You repeat the same canard
>
> Azhwars or Nayanmars and any Tamil poet Valluvar etc are all from
> India!!
Did Madurai and Pataliputra have a common ruler at the time of the
Azhwars? If so, what was the name of their common ruler? If not, then
Madurai and Pataliputra were not in the same country.
ranjit_...@yahoo.com
The churches that are restricted to Christians with middle eastern
ancestry are a small minority. The Chaldea Suroyi are the only ones
who look uniformly middle eastern. The Kinanas claim to be middle
eastern but they look like an admixture. The Orthodox churches and
Syriac rite Catholic churches claim to be Syrian Christians but have
converts from centuries back; they have no recent converts. The
Marthoma church has a large proportion of converts but there are some
parishes dominated by old Suriyani families. The Protestant churches
are nearly all converts but they have a few old Suriyani families who
became protestants. Latin Catholics are, AFAIK, all converts.
harmony
and just as holocaust needs repeatedly be mentioned to safeguard the world
against its repeat, so does this fact. for that congratulations.
conversions have only one purpose: to wreck a host country.
"Vijaya" <adder...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:48e57a32-d88b-4d73...@g19g2000yqo.googlegroups.com...
uNmaiviLambi
> Did Madurai and Pataliputra have a common ruler at the time of the
> Azhwars? If so, what was the name of their common ruler? If not, then
> Madurai and Pataliputra were not in the same country.
There are countries, nations, states etc etc. Bharat was/is one
country, nation, state. Merely because some barbarians came and
created chaos, does not mean anything. You are repeating old European
excuses for exploitation.
You talked of Tamil Nadu and now of Madurai etc etc!
Even then, the fact that Latvia, Lithuania or Poland were separate
"countries" gives no justification to Hitler to kill and occupy
Same goes for barbarians such as Christians and muslims
Bharat was/is one nation guided by its heritage defined by our
scriptures
dmjo...@gmail.com
Living in Poona for 10 years I sensed the Christians there were
converts from untouchables. Around Anand I know they are from
untouchables. Conversions there took in British times. Somehow there
were no conversions in Saurashtra, not before 1947 not after that.
Unlike around Anand (Kheda District) untouchables in Saurashtra were
not taken in farm labour until practically till sixties. Skinning dead
animals, weaving and public construction work, roads and such was
their livelihood. Because of the weaving background they got hired in
textile mills that came in couple of places in Saurashtra. Ahmedabad
textile mills too hired untouchables.
In what period in Kerala significant number of conversions took place
and from what communities?
P. Rajah
> Azhwars or Nayanmars and any Tamil poet Valluvar etc are all from
> India!! India is a foreign name like Tomato is. That does not mean
> India had no tomato or potato!
Yes, it does mean India had no tomatoes or potatoes. Neither did
England, Russia or China. If you don't know about something, don't write
crap about it.
uNmaiviLambi
> uNmaiviLambi wrote:
> Yes, it does mean India had no tomatoes or potatoes. Neither did
> England, Russia or China. If you don't know about something, don't write
> crap about it.
India had tomato and potato and still has it. I used this an example
and you twist it. You are a typical convert drumming up support for
colonialism serving your masters in Europe. You use every opportunity
to create confusion to divide Hindus and foment trouble against
Hindus. Typical of converts
ranjit_...@yahoo.com
Under Portuguese rule, in 16xx, it was more coastal communities (many
having to do with fishing and seafaring) that converted to Roman
Catholicism. Under Colonel Munro's administration, it was more non-
coastal people, like farm workers, who converted to Protestant
Christianity. Also, under Munro's administration, the Orthodox church
split and a reform (Protestantophilic) faction formed the Mar Thoma
church and became evangelical. Their converts were more from the BCs
than the SC/STs.
ranjit_...@yahoo.com
> On Sep 29, 11:47 am, "ranjit_math...@yahoo.com" <ranjit_math...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > On Sep 29, 9:33 am, uNmaiviLambi <tripurant...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > Did Madurai and Pataliputra have a common ruler at the time of the
> > Azhwars? If so, what was the name of their common ruler? If not, then
> > Madurai and Pataliputra were not in the same country.
>
> There are countries, nations, states etc etc. Bharat was/is one
> country, nation, state.
Even if Bihar was one country, how would that have made the whole of
India one country? Are Sri Lanka, India, Pakistan, Nepal, Bhutan and
Bangladesh one country today?
> Merely because some barbarians came and
> created chaos, does not mean anything. You are repeating old European
> excuses for exploitation.
How is calling a place multiple countries (at some point in time) an
excuse for exploitation? When you say that Europe is multiple
countries, are you giving an excuse for exploiting Europe?
> You talked of Tamil Nadu and now of Madurai etc etc!
Read the Silappadikaram. SenguTTuvan (or his minister) toyed with the
idea of conquering non-Tamil countries, many of them to the north of
"Tamilnadu" (I'm not sure what word was used for Tamilnadu); in the
English translation, it says "Tamil country". So, according to Ilango
Adigal, India wasn't one country.
> Even then, the fact that Latvia, Lithuania or Poland were separate
> "countries" gives no justification to Hitler to kill and occupy
Why are you calling them separate countries? If you call the whole of
ancient India one country, why don't you call the whole of Europe one
country?
> Same goes for barbarians such as Christians and muslims
>
> Bharat was/is one nation guided by its heritage defined by our
> scriptures
What were Kannagi's scriptures? What did they have in common with
Prabhakar and Harsha Vardhana's scriptures?
ranjit_...@yahoo.com
<<The tomato is native to South America. The earliest discussion of
the tomato in European literature appeared in a herbal written in 1544
by Pietro Andrea Mattioli.>>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tomato
<<Introduced to Europe in 1536, the potato was subsequently conveyed
by European mariners to territories and ports throughout the world.>>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potato
Are tomatoes or potatoes mentioned in any Indian literature from
before the Portuguese arrived? If not, how do you know that any place
outside America had tomatoes or potatoes?
Romanise
How numerous are SC/STs in Kerala? Converts in Gujarat are almost
exclusively SCs and they too from British era. Though there is
significant presence of missionary establishment, bible translation
activity, in South Gujarat Tribal region, conversion there is little.
The Hindu groups do fear it though and do create trouble for
missionaries. Swadhyaya guys are very active there.
ranjit_...@yahoo.com
Hindu SC/STs are about 12% of Kerala's population.
Nearly 80% of Kerala Christians claim to be Suriyani, so Christians
too have only a small proportion of SC/STs.
fanabba
> this is now well known and well established fact you speak.
> and just as holocaust needs repeatedly be mentioned to safeguard the world
> against its repeat, so does this fact. for that congratulations.
> conversions have only one purpose: to wreck a host country.
>
>
> news:48e57a32-d88b-4d73...@g19g2000yqo.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
> > History proves that people converted to a foreign religion like
> > Christianity or Islam - foreign to the country of theirs- are not
> > loyal to the country they belong. In fact this is such a forceful
> > assertion that the foreign invaders of these two religion used this
> > fact to get the loyalities of the citizens of the conqured country by
> > converting them forcefully to the religion of the invaders.
> > It is the Muslims who originated this barbaric method and European
> > carried it to perfection.
> > This is true even today even the people who are converted to these
> > religions for financial or other reasons are acting as traitors to the
> > country they are living.
> > So a warning to the governments of Asia specially India and China:
> > beware of the citizens belonging to these two religions. If you are
>
> - Show quoted text -
Thank you, Harmony Ji, as always.
Romanise
<ranjit_math...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Hindu SC/STs are about 12% of Kerala's population.
> Nearly 80% of Kerala Christians claim to be Suriyani, so Christians
> too have only a small proportion of SC/STs.
What could be the reason for SCs not getting converted in Kerala?
In Gujarat it started with them and ended with them.
P. Rajah
Are you suggesting that India had tomatoes and potatoes before it was
brought to Europe from the Americas? You are a typical chauvinist who
parades his ignorance with pride.
Romanise
> On Sep 30, 8:33 am, "ranjit_math...@yahoo.com"
>
> <ranjit_math...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > Hindu SC/STs are about 12% of Kerala's population.
> > Nearly 80% of Kerala Christians claim to be Suriyani, so Christians
> > too have only a small proportion of SC/STs.
Kerala
SC
9.8 percent of the total population
Grew 8.2 per cent in 10 years
Gujarat
SC
7.1 percent of the total population
Grew 17.4 per cent in 10 years
Could it be that SCs of Kerala are more subdued than that of Gujarat.
It would be interesting to compare these figures for Muslims in both
states.
ModerateMallu
FWIW, the following Wikipedia article (and links contained therein)
might be helpful
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caste_system_in_Kerala
The largest group of "avarna" Hindus are the Ezhavas. See
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ezhava
One of the main reasons for less conversion amongst them was Narayana
Guru. The timely act of the Raja of Travancore (via CPR Iyer) in
abolishing caste requirements for entry into temples probably also
helped in preventing Protestant Christian depredations.
The growth figures that you've provided are interesting. Spurts in
growth (esp. in India) mean that somewhere along the line there is money
involved. Money can change caste from high to low pretty quickly.
Sometimes money/economic benefits can cause caste to change to tribe too
(as in Rajasthan's Meena-Gujjar issue). :-)
Romanise
I am not sure if SCs converting to Chistianity during British rule in
Gujarat had anything to do with religious dissatisfaction. It happened
in the region where they had some economic power being taken as farm
labour, and of course often farm labour is indentured labour, very
tense relationship with the employer.
I could not find pdfs for Muslims like I found for SCs.
http://censusindia.gov.in/Tables_Published/SCST/dh_sc_kerala.pdf
http://censusindia.gov.in/Tables_Published/SCST/dh_sc_gujarat.pdf
Muslims are perhaps tricky for Census authorities to handle.
uNmaiviLambi
Kannagi was a Hindu and so was Ilango. You are a victim of DMK disinfo
and stupid English translations. Crook MK wrote on Silambu!. Kannagi
is worshipped by people as a goddess including Malayalees and Lankans.
In aaychchiyar kuravai Ilanko praises Vishnu and says ears which never
heard of Rama and Vishnu not ears at all
Also in Puhaar, he says people worshiped Sivan, Murugan, Balaraman,
Vishnu, Indhiran and sacred acts as per vedas were performed!
Many others.
Silappadhikaaram is clear evidence of Hindu culture. Those who say
otherwise never studied it. This is like Ramayana. People write
volumes without studying it
Tomato or potato. Just because something has an English name does not
mean Hindus did not have it. Just because there was nothing called
India, does not mean it did not exist as a nation
Romanise
Becoming an SC could be quite difficult. In Gujarat there has been SCs
IAS from early fifties. SCs on the whole are quite territorial. They
would not let any one join their caste that easily. Yes I have heard
of boys getting adopted by SCs for money.
ranjit_...@yahoo.com
> On Sep 29, 10:02 pm, "ranjit_math...@yahoo.com"
> <ranjit_math...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > On Sep 29, 1:43 pm, uNmaiviLambi <tripurant...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > What were Kannagi's scriptures? What did they have in common with
> > Prabhakar and Harsha Vardhana's scriptures?
>
> Kannagi was a Hindu
What were her scriptures?
> and so was Ilango. You are a victim of DMK disinfo
> and stupid English translations. Crook MK wrote on Silambu!. Kannagi
> is worshipped by people as a goddess
That doesn't prove that she was a Hindu. Trinitarian Christians
worship Jesus but he was a Jew, not a Christian.
> including Malayalees and Lankans.
Is a Veda basher who worships Kannagi a Hindu?
> In aaychchiyar kuravai Ilanko praises Vishnu and says ears which never
> heard of Rama and Vishnu not ears at all
He doesn't say that Kannagi praised Vishnu.
> Also in Puhaar, he says people worshiped Sivan, Murugan, Balaraman,
> Vishnu, Indhiran and sacred acts as per vedas were performed!
>
> Many others.
>
> Silappadhikaaram is clear evidence of Hindu culture. Those who say
> otherwise never studied it. This is like Ramayana. People write
> volumes without studying it
>
> Tomato or potato. Just because something has an English name does not
> mean Hindus did not have it.
Neither does it mean that Hindus did have it. So, how do you know that
Hindus had tomatoes and potatoes before Europeans came to India?
> Just because there was nothing called
> India, does not mean it did not exist as a nation
There was something called India just as there was something called
Europe. Were India and Europe nations, though?
uNmaiviLambi
Same problem. You read something in English written by morons/crooks
as usual. I cant quote all silambu. But here is how Kannagi got
married:
PugaarkkaNdam:
Mangala vaazhthtu paadal 55:
salimeen thagaiYaaLai kOvalan
maamudhu paarppan maRai vazhikaattida
thee valam seyvadhu kaaNbaar
Kovalan ned the beautiful KaNNagi around the sacred fire with vedic
guidance from brahmans (paarppaan)
I dont need to say anything else.
It is up to you to imagine anything you want
> There was something called India just as there was something called
> Europe. Were India and Europe nations, though?
I dont know if you got it. There was no India!!! It was called Bharat!
India is an English word.
There was no pumpkin. There was poosanikkaay!
ranjit_...@yahoo.com
> On Oct 1, 12:02 pm, "ranjit_math...@yahoo.com" <ranjit_math...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > On Sep 30, 8:38 pm, uNmaiviLambi <tripurant...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Same problem. You read something in English written by morons/crooks
> as usual. I cant quote all silambu. But here is how Kannagi got
> married:
> PugaarkkaNdam:
> Mangala vaazhthtu paadal 55:
>
> salimeen thagaiYaaLai kOvalan
> maamudhu paarppan maRai vazhikaattida
> thee valam seyvadhu kaaNbaar
>
> Kovalan ned the beautiful KaNNagi around the sacred fire with vedic
> guidance from brahmans (paarppaan)
Interesting!
> I dont need to say anything else.
>
> It is up to you to imagine anything you want
>
> > There was something called India just as there was something called
> > Europe. Were India and Europe nations, though?
>
> I dont know if you got it. There was no India!!! It was called Bharat!
... any references to show that Tamilians called India Bharat?
> India is an English word.
Latin from Greek.
Origin:
< L < Gk Indía,
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/India
> There was no pumpkin. There was poosanikkaay!
There was no word poosnikaay before there were any pumpkins in India.
harmony
"fanabba" <fan...@aol.com> wrote in message
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--------------------
there was a great fund raiser in houston for a hindu-holocaust museum.