Dual Citizenship and travelling to to Russia
Misha
Hi!
I wonder if anybody with dual Russian-XXX citizenship has any experience
of traveling to Russia with Russian and XXX passports (XXX stands for
any country).
Assume I have both US and Russian citizenship and let us _not_ get into
any details about legitimacy of dual citizenship. I have a valid Russian
passport _without_ the PMZh
stamp and a regular US passport.
I am going to Russia for vacation. I understand that it will save me a
lot of
hassles if I get a foreign visa to my Russian passport, as then I go
inside and outside Russia as a regular Russian. Still let us suppose
there are no valid foreign visas in my Russian passport. I can't get a
Russian visa in my US passport, because I am a Russian citizen. To apply
for a Russian visa I must fill out a questionnaire, which specifically
asks if I am (or have ever been) a Russian/Soviet citizen. If I say Yes,
I am automatically ineligible for a visa (because I am Russian).
Now, what will happen if I go to Russia?
1. I guess I am entering Russia as a Russian without any adventures.
They just
look at the photograph in my Russian passport and in their black lists.
2. What's going to happen when I am leaving Russia? Again, I am leaving
Russia as a Russian. A border guard can ask me where is my US visa if I
am going
to the US. Formally I can say that I live in Russia, so no need no PMZh.
And I
just happen to have the US citizenship. Who cares?
Will such scenario lead me into trouble? What will happen if I am
stopped and got
into questioning about my PMZh? Anybody knows the Russian legal point of
view?
Thanks,
Misha
Andrew Turinsky
You may consider an option of going/driving
from Russia to, say, Ukraine on your usual
Russian passport (I think you don't need any
visa to get in Ukraine) and then go to US from,
say, Kiev. I guess, Ukrainian board guards
would be less concerned about your Russia-related
legal issues since for them you would be
a foreigner anyhow.
Misha wrote:
> Hi!
>
> I wonder if anybody with dual Russian-XXX citizenship has any experience
> of traveling to Russia with Russian and XXX passports (XXX stands for
> any country).
> . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
> Thanks,
> Misha
rae...@my-dejanews.com
In article ?357C0581...@netcom.ca?,
Misha ?mik...@netcom.ca? wrote:
?
? Hi!
?
? I wonder if anybody with dual Russian-XXX citizenship has any experience
? of traveling to Russia with Russian and XXX passports (XXX stands for
? any country).
Do you need an advice (not a legal advice!) or a personal experience?
I can give you the first but not the second.
?
? Assume I have both US and Russian citizenship and let us _not_ get into
? any details about legitimacy of dual citizenship. I have a valid Russian
? passport _without_ the PMZh
? stamp and a regular US passport.
?
? I am going to Russia for vacation. I understand that it will save me a
? lot of
? hassles if I get a foreign visa to my Russian passport, as then I go
? inside and outside Russia as a regular Russian.
Do not forget you can be forced to serve in Russian army as a Russian citizen
(with a low probability) and you can be denied to leave Russia (that is
internal Russia's matter), regardless of the way you travel.
?Still let us suppose
? there are no valid foreign visas in my Russian passport. I can't get a
? Russian visa in my US passport, because I am a Russian citizen.
I am not sure that is true. If you keep you Russian PMJ passport valid, you
can contact Russian consulate and get a special entry visa into your US
passport for Russian citizens only. That will not treat the problems above,
thought. But you will be trouble free from the problems latter.
> To apply
? for a Russian visa I must fill out a questionnaire, which specifically
? asks if I am (or have ever been) a Russian/Soviet citizen. If I say Yes,
? I am automatically ineligible for a visa (because I am Russian).
That may not necessarily be true.
?
? Now, what will happen if I go to Russia?
?
? 1. I guess I am entering Russia as a Russian without any adventures.
? They just
? look at the photograph in my Russian passport and in their black lists.
?
? 2. What's going to happen when I am leaving Russia? Again, I am leaving
? Russia as a Russian. A border guard can ask me where is my US visa if I
? am going
? to the US. Formally I can say that I live in Russia, so no need no PMZh.
? And I
? just happen to have the US citizenship. Who cares?
You need to have a visa in you russian non-PMJ passport. Foreign passport will
not help.
?
? Will such scenario lead me into trouble? What will happen if I am
? stopped and got
? into questioning about my PMZh? Anybody knows the Russian legal point of
? view?
The best thing you can do is
1. Keep you PMJ passport valid.
2. Give up russian citizenship.
Alex
?
? Thanks,
? Misha
?
?
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/ Now offering spam-free web-based newsreading
peters...@my-dejanews.com
In article <6lhfni$q7n$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>,
rae...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
> ? I am going to Russia for vacation. I understand that it will save me a
> ? lot of
> ? hassles if I get a foreign visa to my Russian passport, as then I go
> ? inside and outside Russia as a regular Russian.
>
> Do not forget you can be forced to serve in Russian army as a Russian citizen
> (with a low probability)
This issue has been discussed recently at fido7.ru.army. It turned
out, the Article 8 of the new Russian Military Duty Act adopted in
March 1998 provides a conscription waiver for Russian citizens who
permanently reside abroad. The tricky part, however, is that only
Russian citizens with a PMZh-stamped passport are considered by the
Russian authorities to be foreign residents. Thus, if your passport
is not PMZh, you can still be drafted, provided you're under 27 and
not eligible for a waiver on some other ground, even if you are a US
citizen. But, as we all know, when it comes to Russia, what actually
matters is not the letter of the law but the actual administrative
practice that may or may not follow the law, depending on the
circumstances.
> You need to have a visa in you russian non-PMJ passport. Foreign passport will
> not help.
Does it mean that if I leave Russia via a third country that does
not require Russian citizens to obtain a visa (e.g., Poland, Cyprus,
Belarus, etc.) the Russian authorities will let me out?
Pavel
rae...@my-dejanews.com
In article ?6lhlrv$382$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com?,
peters...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
?
? In article ?6lhfni$q7n$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com?,
? rae...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
? ? ? I am going to Russia for vacation. I understand that it will save me a
? ? ? lot of
? ? ? hassles if I get a foreign visa to my Russian passport, as then I go
? ? ? inside and outside Russia as a regular Russian.
? ?
? ? Do not forget you can be forced to serve in Russian army as a Russian
citizen
? ? (with a low probability)
?
? This issue has been discussed recently at fido7.ru.army. It turned
? out, the Article 8 of the new Russian Military Duty Act adopted in
? March 1998 provides a conscription waiver for Russian citizens who
? permanently reside abroad. The tricky part, however, is that only
? Russian citizens with a PMZh-stamped passport are considered by the
? Russian authorities to be foreign residents. Thus, if your passport
? is not PMZh, you can still be drafted, provided you're under 27 and
? not eligible for a waiver on some other ground, even if you are a US
? citizen. But, as we all know, when it comes to Russia, what actually
? matters is not the letter of the law but the actual administrative
? practice that may or may not follow the law, depending on the
? circumstances.
?
? ? You need to have a visa in you russian non-PMJ passport. Foreign passport
will
? ? not help.
?
? Does it mean that if I leave Russia via a third country that does
? not require Russian citizens to obtain a visa (e.g., Poland, Cyprus,
? Belarus, etc.) the Russian authorities will let me out?
Yes, they will. I am not so sure about Belarus authorities, who can still
demand a US visa from you, though you are not a Belarus citizen. Czeck
republic is definitely fine.
?
? Pavel
?
? -----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
? http://www.dejanews.com/ Now offering spam-free web-based newsreading
?
Serguei Mysko
Andrew Turinsky wrote in message <357C1302...@uic.edu>...
>You may consider an option of going/driving
>from Russia to, say, Ukraine on your usual
>Russian passport (I think you don't need any
>visa to get in Ukraine) and then go to US from,
>say, Kiev. I guess, Ukrainian board guards
>would be less concerned about your Russia-related
>legal issues since for them you would be
>a foreigner anyhow.
>
Just keep in mind when crossing Russian-Ukrainian border you'd better have
the citizen insert ('vkladysh o grazdanstvye') in your domestic use
passport. Otherwise you may have problems with border guards.
[Misha wrote]
>What will happen if I am stopped and got
>into questioning about my PMZh? Anybody
>knows the Russian legal point of view?
The key point for the Russian border guards is :
1) you should have legal passport (dates - valid);
2) you have to have visa permitting you to enter the other country (when
leaving from Russia). If not - you must have the PMZ passport.
Good luck,
Serguei.
Mikhail Kourjanski
Personal experience:
valid russian passport (from OVIR), no PMZH.
I have a green card.
Haven't been to Russia for almost 4 years and
completed a 2 week trip to Moscow last Sunday
together with my 4 y.o. daughter (same documents for her).
Entering Russia: went through the gate for
russian citizens residing in Russia. No problem.
(Just asked me - have been away since 1994? - yes).
Customs - no declaration; waived through.
Leaving Russia:
customs - waived through;
green card shown to airline personnel during check-in
(they are liable if you are not eligible)
Border control - checking the validity
of rus. passport only. They _did not_ bother
about visa at all.
Concern about army draft: none (I am 31).
My experience is flying from SFO to Sheremetyevo-II
and back by Aeroflot.
My story is not a legal advice, obviously.
Personally, I have anticipated no problems,
and so it went that way.
Misha (mich...@path.berkeley.edu)
Misha (mik...@netcom.ca) wrote:
: Hi!
: I wonder if anybody with dual Russian-XXX citizenship has any experience
: of traveling to Russia with Russian and XXX passports (XXX stands for
: any country).
: Assume I have both US and Russian citizenship and let us _not_ get into
: any details about legitimacy of dual citizenship. I have a valid Russian
: passport _without_ the PMZh
: stamp and a regular US passport.
: I am going to Russia for vacation. I understand that it will save me a
: lot of
: hassles if I get a foreign visa to my Russian passport, as then I go
: inside and outside Russia as a regular Russian. Still let us suppose
: there are no valid foreign visas in my Russian passport. I can't get a
: Russian visa in my US passport, because I am a Russian citizen. To apply
: for a Russian visa I must fill out a questionnaire, which specifically
: asks if I am (or have ever been) a Russian/Soviet citizen. If I say Yes,
: I am automatically ineligible for a visa (because I am Russian).
: Now, what will happen if I go to Russia?
: 1. I guess I am entering Russia as a Russian without any adventures.
: They just
: look at the photograph in my Russian passport and in their black lists.
: 2. What's going to happen when I am leaving Russia? Again, I am leaving
: Russia as a Russian. A border guard can ask me where is my US visa if I
: am going
: to the US. Formally I can say that I live in Russia, so no need no PMZh.
: And I
: just happen to have the US citizenship. Who cares?
: Will such scenario lead me into trouble? What will happen if I am
: stopped and got
: into questioning about my PMZh? Anybody knows the Russian legal point of
: view?
: Thanks,
: Misha
Dmitri
On Mon, 08 Jun 1998 08:38:41 -0700, Misha <mik...@netcom.ca> wrote:
>Now, what will happen if I go to Russia?
>
>1. I guess I am entering Russia as a Russian without any adventures.
>They just
>look at the photograph in my Russian passport and in their black lists.
>
>2. What's going to happen when I am leaving Russia? Again, I am leaving
>Russia as a Russian. A border guard can ask me where is my US visa if I
>am going
>to the US. Formally I can say that I live in Russia, so no need no PMZh.
>And I
>just happen to have the US citizenship. Who cares?
>
>Will such scenario lead me into trouble? What will happen if I am
>stopped and got
>into questioning about my PMZh? Anybody knows the Russian legal point of
>view?
>
>Thanks,
>Misha
Personal Experience:
I have just returned from Russia - spent there three weeks.
I have a greencard and Re-Entry Permit to US
On way in went through border guard booth "For Russian Citizens only"
- no questions asked
On way back - border guards checked my Russian passport, did not even
look at Re-Entry permit and told me that I do not have to produce it
unless specifically requested by the border guard.
I do not have PMZh stamp, so I just tell them that I work in US - and
that is all
-------------------------------------------
remove "nospam" from my email address
-------------------------------------------