Weddings - attitudes
Moira de Swardt
in the late morning. I knew neither couple. Both weddings were
conducted at the home of the bride and groom. Both couples had been
living together for several years. Both couples had one partner who
had been married before and had a child or children from the
previous marriage. In neither case were the offspring present.
Both requested Christian ceremonies. It sounds as if the weddings
should have been fairly similar, give or take their personal
differences.
How different the two weddings were in attitude and atmosphere! At
the first, in the very deep south-east in a part of Alberton in a
lovely area , I arrived to find the home had been filled with roses,
the bridal party were beautifully dressed (although not in the style
I would have worn), the guests expectant. Candles were burning and
everything was welcoming. The wedding was concluded in front of
family only. Exquisite little gifts were given to every guest
(myself included) and snacks and drinks were speedily produced. I
stayed on for a little while as I simply went on to the next wedding
without going home and this seemed as good a way to "kill" the time
between weddings as any. We all chatted and the bride offered help
with my proposed website which is not progressing under the care of
the person who is currently responsible for making it happen. My
fee had been handed to me in an envelope at the beginning of the
ceremony.
The second wedding was held in a beautiful home in Sandton. The
bride and groom kept me waiting for more than half an hour. The
guests didn't arrive until *much* later. It was obvious they'd got
me there early because they didn't trust me to be on time. The
whole thing was disorganised. The bride and groom left their party
to go and buy booze and snacks and draw my fee. It was chaos and
unwelcoming chaos. I found one of their guests absolutely
fascinating so it wasn't too much of a trial. But I was stunned at
the difference in the attitudes of the two couples and the
atmospheres surrounding their nuptials.
I suspect the lack of care of the latter may have stunned me anyway,
because most couples make at least *some* effort to make their
wedding special when it is conducted in their home rather than mine,
even couples where I'm only conducting the legal side as they're
having a religious ceremony conducted by someone else at another
time and place. Of course, some couples make an effort to make
their wedding at my home special, too.
Strange.
Moira, the Faerie Godmother
JohnM
<moira.d...@wol.co.za> writes
> The bride and groom left their party
>to go and buy booze and snacks and draw my fee.
LOL!
--
JohnM *sick of the sig, looking for a new one *
JohnM
>, Paul Lowe <fr...@spamexpire-200410.rodent.frell.eu.org> writes
>Sorry to be the one to have to tell you this moira, but this
>type of post is *VERY* boring indeed. A bit like having to look
>at someone else's holiday snaps. This sort of thing is better
>done on a blog - not a NG. It also illustrates what a boring
>life you lead.
C'mon, Paul, a bride and groom who left their own wedding to buy booze
and snacks and you found it boring?
--
JohnM * still LOL-ing*
Geeza
"JohnM" <jo...@scroll.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:BWH0g2A1...@scroll.demon.co.uk...
> In article <65Cdnf3O4de...@is.co.za>, Moira de Swardt
> <moira.d...@wol.co.za> writes
>
> > The bride and groom left their party
> >to go and buy booze and snacks and draw my fee.
What a sad reflection it is that the bride and groom leave their party to go
and buy booze and snacks - in my day they left the tjol for more urgent and
romantic reasons.
It is also a sad reflection that they drew a fee for a professional who does
not seem to be able to keep confidential and splurts the gory details out
all over the web. Possibly future customers would be wary about this
tendency - no names are mentioned so the situation could apply to any one of
the proffessional person's customers.
BTW: Wassemarrer Paul Lowe - cat got yer tongue?
conciliator
boring as well.
"Paul Lowe" <fr...@spamexpire-200410.rodent.frell.eu.org> wrote in message
news:566c134b074d9172...@msgid.frell.theremailer.net...
> Sorry to be the one to have to tell you this moira, but this
> type of post is *VERY* boring indeed. A bit like having to look
> at someone else's holiday snaps. This sort of thing is better
> done on a blog - not a NG. It also illustrates what a boring
> life you lead.
>
> My best...
>
> Paul
>
Peter H.M. Brooks
"conciliator" <nos...@home.com> wrote in message
news:15CdnYx4TuR...@is.co.za...
> Is there anything you DON'T find boring?
>
Boredom is a lack of imagination.
--
"The moral of the tale is this: whoever allows himself to be
whipped, deserves to be whipped.
"The blows, as you see, have agreed with me; the roseate supersensual
mist has dissolved, and no one can ever make me believe again that
these 'sacred apes of Benares' or Plato's rooster are the image of God." -
Venus in Furs
by Leopold von Sacher-Masoch
Moira de Swardt
"Geeza" <gle...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > <moira.d...@wol.co.za> writes
> > > The bride and groom left their party
> > >to go and buy booze and snacks and draw my fee.
> It is also a sad reflection that they drew a fee for a
professional who does
> not seem to be able to keep confidential and splurts the gory
details out
> all over the web. Possibly future customers would be wary about
this
> tendency - no names are mentioned so the situation could apply to
any one of
> the proffessional person's customers.
I was going to ignore this post, but it has been irritating me for
two days now.
The situation could apply to any of the "millions" of people from
Sandton who were married by me on 16 October 2004. All the guests
at the wedding obviously knew the bride and groom had gone to get
drinks and snacks and my fee as we were all sitting in the lounge
together when the bride and groom announced that was what they were
going to do.
Get real. It could only apply to that one wedding. And as you say,
no names were mentioned so no-one could say "Hi, Geeza! Why didn't
you draw the money to pay Moira before the wedding? I read about it
on Usenet." Incidentally, Usenet is actually much less well known
than most of us would like to think. I have only ever met one
person who knows me from Usenet, the husband of one of my St. John
colleagues. A few people know me from the theatre reviews which TJ
reposts to his website.
By the way "professional" (one "f") people have clients not
customers.
Moira, the Faerie Godmother
Geeza
"Moira de Swardt" <moira.d...@wol.co.za> wrote in message
news:Z9SdnRihw60...@is.co.za...
>
> "Geeza" <gle...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > > <moira.d...@wol.co.za> writes
>
> > > > The bride and groom left their party
> > > >to go and buy booze and snacks and draw my fee.
>
> > It is also a sad reflection that they drew a fee for a
> professional who does
> > not seem to be able to keep confidential and splurts the gory
> details out
> > all over the web. Possibly future customers would be wary about
> this
> > tendency - no names are mentioned so the situation could apply to
> any one of
> > the proffessional person's customers.
>
> I was going to ignore this post, but it has been irritating me for
> two days now.
Yass Success I am a happy troll now !
>
> The situation could apply to any of the "millions" of people from
> Sandton who were married by me on 16 October 2004. All the guests
> at the wedding obviously knew the bride and groom had gone to get
> drinks and snacks and my fee as we were all sitting in the lounge
> together when the bride and groom announced that was what they were
> going to do.
>
> Get real. It could only apply to that one wedding. And as you say,
> no names were mentioned so no-one could say "Hi, Geeza! Why didn't
> you draw the money to pay Moira before the wedding? I read about it
> on Usenet." Incidentally, Usenet is actually much less well known
> than most of us would like to think. I have only ever met one
> person who knows me from Usenet, the husband of one of my St. John
> colleagues. A few people know me from the theatre reviews which TJ
> reposts to his website.
>
> By the way "professional" (one "f") people have clients not
> customers.
>
> Moira, the Faerie Godmother
Clients not customers - maybe you should learn to treat your clients like
customers and then you would be better disposed towards keeping their
privacy.
I would not like to use your services knowing that you had such a disdainful
attitude towards me and were expressing it publically in order to uplift a
personal profile. My mate is a gynaecologist and he would find it rather
unprofessional to discuss his customer's yeast infections. My nephew is a
lawyer and he would not discuss his customer's ethics on an open forum. As
an interior decorator I have some very swish clients, sorry customers, and i
often have to introduce the concept of minimalism in order to inhibit
tendencies toward some very unhygenic clutter The details will not be spewed
out over the internet as the clientstomers have paid me good money for my
professional services, this includes courtesy. I will use other means to
make myself look good
Otherwise you are a great person. - nobody's perfect and neither are their
customers, sorry one f in professional clients.
Peter H.M. Brooks
>
> ". As
> an interior decorator I have some very swish clients, sorry customers,
>
we've got painters reading it!
I hadn't really imagined that painters could read, but clearly some not only
read, but can post to usenet!
I'm all for diversity - are there any plumbers here too?
--
"Just think," she buzzed inconsequently, "my sister in Cambridgeshire has
hatched out thirty-three White Orpington chickens in her incubator!"
"What eggs did she put in it?" asked Francesca.
"Oh, some very special strain of White Orpington."
"Then I don't see anything remarkable in the result. If she had put in
crocodile's eggs and hatched out White Orpingtons, there might have been
something to write to Country Life about." - Sake, The Unbearable Bassington
Moira de Swardt
> I would not like to use your services knowing that you had such a
disdainful
> attitude towards me and were expressing it publically in order to
uplift a
> personal profile. My mate is a gynaecologist and he would find it
rather
> unprofessional to discuss his customer's yeast infections. My
nephew is a
> lawyer and he would not discuss his customer's ethics on an open
forum. As
> an interior decorator I have some very swish clients, sorry
customers, and i
> often have to introduce the concept of minimalism in order to
inhibit
> tendencies toward some very unhygenic clutter The details will not
be spewed
> out over the internet as the clientstomers have paid me good
money for my
> professional services, this includes courtesy. I will use other
means to
> make myself look good
Why would I be disdainful to you? Are you the sort of person who
would fail to have ready a pre-agreed fee with the *specific* terms
that it is to be paid, in cash or by bank guaranteed cheque, *at*
the wedding? There was no personal profiling of the bride and groom
other than that they live in Sandton.
Gynaecologists have patients, lawyers have clients. Interior
decorators, if they are more interested in selling fabric than
decorating, may have customers. And both doctors and lawyers
frequently tell entertaining stories about their patients and
clients, anonymously. I'm willing to bet your partner has shared
some of his stories with you (and as a gynaecologist they might be
considered fairly personal to the women concerned).
But dear, you have spewed, just this moment, over the net that some
people, your "clientstomers" have some very unhygienic clutter
(obviously not feng shui or Flylady devotees). In what way is that
different to my story, except that my story doesn't give any leeway
for doubt. No bride and groom married anywhere but in Sandton on 16
October can fit the profile I created of a bride and groom who left
their own wedding to go and buy drinks and snacks and draw my fee.
Any client, say someone like Peter and Verity Brooks right here on
this forum, can have unhygienic clutter in their homes.
> Otherwise you are a great person. - nobody's perfect and neither
are their
> customers, sorry one f in professional clients.
Thanks, sweetie. I agree that none of us are perfect.
Moira, the Faerie Godmother
Moira de Swardt
"Peter H.M. Brooks" <pe...@new.co.za> wrote in message
> I'm all for diversity - are there any plumbers here too?
I need a new plumber. I haven't been all that happy with the one
I've been using recently. Mind you, that reminds me I haven't
received their most recent bill. I must follow it up.
Moira, the Faerie Godmother
Moira de Swardt
> > ". As
> > an interior decorator I have some very swish clients, sorry
customers,
> Fucking hell! Usenet is certainly becoming quite a widely read
medium if
> we've got painters reading it!
That reminds me. Someone asked me the other day if I knew of an
interior designer because their niece wanted to interview one. Mark
knows about fourteen.
Moira, the Faerie Godmother
Peter H.M. Brooks
>
> > Any client, say someone like Peter and Verity Brooks right here on
> this forum, can have unhygienic clutter in their homes.
>
clutter.
--
What was adult life but one moment of weakness piled on top of another? Most
people ust fell in line like obedient children, doing exactly what society
expected of them at any given moment, all the while pretending that they'd
actually made some sort of choice - Tom Perrotta, 'Little Children', St.
Martin's Press
Peter H.M. Brooks
an Electrician, the main difficulty here is finding one that will turn up on
time sober.
--
Young ladies stretching, writhing, callpygously stooping to tie their
sandals - A. Huxley 1939 'After Many a Summer'
Peter H.M. Brooks
in the biblical sense.
To be realistic, though, I imagine that I've known an awful lot more as most
people are their own interior decorators, which is as it should be. I can't
imagine how awful it would be to have so much more money than sense as to
need somebody else to tell me how to make my house look nicer. Such a
complete lack of aesthetic sense would be very strange, at least I'd think
so.
Strangely, though, I am aware that some people are so unconcerned about
their lack of aesthetics that they would not just confess to the dark secret
of having used an interior decorator, but would openly talk about it. Such
people are not numbered amongst those that I invite around though - I met
far too many of them when I was growing up.
--
The great majority of investors aren't stupid, their error is to believe
that those 'in the know' in finance have more information than they do,
which is true, but that this makes them savvier, which is a joke. - Bedlam
July newsletter
Moira de Swardt
"Peter H.M. Brooks" <pe...@new.co.za> wrote in message
> To be realistic, though, I imagine that I've known an awful lot
more as most
> people are their own interior decorators, which is as it should
be. I can't
> imagine how awful it would be to have so much more money than
sense as to
> need somebody else to tell me how to make my house look nicer.
Such a
> complete lack of aesthetic sense would be very strange, at least
I'd think
> so.
> Strangely, though, I am aware that some people are so unconcerned
about
> their lack of aesthetics that they would not just confess to the
dark secret
> of having used an interior decorator, but would openly talk about
it. Such
> people are not numbered amongst those that I invite around
though - I met
> far too many of them when I was growing up.
There are uses for interior designers rather than interior
decorators. I bought an old flat which doesn't really work well in
many aspects. I would like to have an interior designer work
through the plans and make some suggestions to make it more workable
to the lifestyle I actually lead. However there is no money for
such things at the moment.
The idea of someone telling me what I like, or should like, in terms
of style of furnishings, would be ridiculous.
Moira, the Faerie Godmother
Moira de Swardt
"Peter H.M. Brooks" <pe...@new.co.za> <moira.d...@wol.co.za>
wrote in message
> > > Any client, say someone like Peter and Verity Brooks right
here on
> > this forum, can have unhygienic clutter in their homes.
> Never! All our clutter is hygienic and all our unhygienic stuff
isn't
> clutter.
I have some clutter, but not much. I really did dispose of hundreds
of kilos of stuff when I left The Salvation Army. Good stuff it was
too for the most part, including hundreds of books, craft materials
and equipment, extra soft furnishings, extra sets of crockery,
cutlery and glassware, ornaments, etc. For a while my place was
almost minimalistic in decor, rescued only by a refusal to part with
a collection of blue Wedgwood and some particularly vulgar busts of
composers. Since January when Mark and I started sharing a home the
combined clutter has slowly taken over. Mark has green fingers and
can't resist acquiring pot plants. We've also acquired a tank of
fish and a cat. I just know that when Mark moves out I'll get the
fish, the cat and most of the plants. The only thing I (as opposed
to "we") have acquired in that that time is a beautiful stained
glass lamp in blue and purple made for me by a close friend.
Moira, the Faerie Godmother
Peter H.M. Brooks
>
> >
> There are uses for interior designers rather than interior
> decorators. I bought an old flat which doesn't really work well in
> many aspects. I would like to have an interior designer work
> through the plans and make some suggestions to make it more workable
> to the lifestyle I actually lead. However there is no money for
> such things at the moment.
>
spaces liveable, they try to anyway.
I wonder whether any architect, or indeed interior decorator, would have the
courage to examine your living area and come to the conclusion that,
unwieldy as it is, it is already in the best state that it can be bar
knocking it all down and starting again. I doubt it, I'd expect them to
suggest the odd sky-light (if possible) and whatever is currently
fashionable, in the '50s it was central 'islands' in the kitchen.
--
Parton plays Mona as if Mae West had been cryonically preserved but someone
didn't quite finish the job of unfreezing her - Time 1982
Peter H.M. Brooks
Shaw so I'm happy about cut flowers, but other plants indoors just get in
the way.
I can't have cats because of hay-fever - I don't much like them anyway so it
isn't a great loss. I am very fond of our goldfish - though they are in the
impluvium.
--
The ruin of states, the destruction of families, and the perishing of
individuals are always preceded by their abandonment of the rules of
propriety. - Li Chi ~100BC Chinese Book of Rites
Moira de Swardt
"Peter H.M. Brooks" <pe...@new.co.za> wrote in message
> I firmly believe that plants belong outside. I don't go as far as
Bernard
> Shaw so I'm happy about cut flowers, but other plants indoors just
get in
> the way.
I had a single African violet and a miniature palm plant. We now
have in the living area a host of orchards, cyclamens, so many
African violets it looks like we're farming them and assorted plants
in Mark's room. The balcony has the two rose bushes which weren't
doing well at the front door, a host of herbs without which Mark
can't possibly cook, and a large assortment of plants whose names
and botanical description defy me to remember, including a
"yesterday, today and tomorrow" bush.
> I can't have cats because of hay-fever - I don't much like them
anyway so it
> isn't a great loss. I am very fond of our goldfish - though they
are in the
> impluvium.
I'm fond of cats and dogs and would have half a dozen of each if
time and space allowed. I'm not emotionally attached to the
goldfish although they are quite pretty. Mark has a tendency to add
things to their environment which spoils the minimalist look of
their tank. The latest is a large and ugly sea shell which, despite
my direst predictions, failed to kill off the fresh water fish. He
read zoology and other assorted natural sciences (does one "read"
natural sciences?) so he keeps telling me to trust him about these
things.
Moira, the Faerie Godmother
Moira de Swardt
> > There are uses for interior designers rather than interior
> > decorators. I bought an old flat which doesn't really work well
in
> > many aspects. I would like to have an interior designer work
> > through the plans and make some suggestions to make it more
workable
> > to the lifestyle I actually lead. However there is no money for
> > such things at the moment.
> An architect would be more the person I would consider - they work
at making
> spaces liveable, they try to anyway.
The only interior designer I know is an architect, but he does only
interiors. When Gro Mango started posting here I mentioned that
there were several architects in my life and that most of them had
very specialised areas of expertise, including one who just designs
service buildings or areas like "conveniences" and parking. :-)
> I wonder whether any architect, or indeed interior decorator,
would have the
> courage to examine your living area and come to the conclusion
that,
> unwieldy as it is, it is already in the best state that it can be
bar
> knocking it all down and starting again. I doubt it, I'd expect
them to
> suggest the odd sky-light (if possible) and whatever is currently
> fashionable, in the '50s it was central 'islands' in the kitchen.
There are certainly some things that could be done, such as knocking
a hatch through from the kitchen to the lounge, and there is a
useless passage area which could quite easily be incorporated into
the kitchen/living area if we could make that more open plan. The
one wall could be converted into a wine rack if strength would
allow, and *I* can't see why not.
The main bedroom which is now Mark's room but which I used as a
dining room could be made much more functional simply by the
effective use of fitted shelving and closet space. The living area
needs to have the same fitted shelving built. I suspect that there
are many things one can do to make the flat more user friendly if
one was prepared to spend quite a bit of money on it. There is a
tiny balcony which could be used to facilitate entertaining if the
windows were converted to "French door" style windows, an alteration
which wouldn't involve any structural changes.
My sister and her husband had an architect work on their tiny two
bedroomed home back in the eighties and design a five phase
development plan for the house. The first phase converted a living
room to the kitchen and the kitchen to a plain play area for the
children, with the old dining room converted to a third bedroom, the
old balcony was to become the new lounge. The second phase added
the new lounge over the old underground storage area and built a
staircase into the home. The third phase did some of the outside
areas. The fourth phase converted the underground storage area into
a large bedroom en suite for the main room with the potential for
converting same to a separate flat when the home becomes too big for
the number of people who live there. The final phase is the
conversion of the old outside toilet into a bathroom en suite for
one of the rooms, together with the revamping of the old upstairs
bathroom. My sister and her husband who was a builder before he was
an antique dealer have just recently completed part of phase five.
In the interim they've had another idea for converting the original
kitchen (it wasn't the original kitchen, but the one that my uncle
built, but the original from the point of view of my sister's
residency in the home) which became the play area to yet another
flat to be used for student living by their daughters when they
reach university age. If the place were mine I'd convert it to a
giant laundry, but then I don't believe students should be given too
much freedom even if it is at home.
In the interim my brother-in-law built a beautiful wendy house which
is now a shed. The old servant quarters need to be demolished and
something could be done about that. The garage still needs work
etc.
The house has been in our family since the sixties and it is
difficult to remember that it was originally a four roomed house
(kitchen with a large entrance hall, lounge, two bedrooms) with a
very primitive bathroom and outside loo. It now has five bedrooms,
two en suite, three bathrooms, a large lounge and deck, a large
kitchen opening out to a pool and braai area.
So, I suppose interior designer architects are quite useful people.
Moira, the Faerie Godmother
Peter H.M. Brooks
>
> I'm fond of cats and dogs and would have half a dozen of each if
> time and space allowed. I'm not emotionally attached to the
> goldfish although they are quite pretty. Mark has a tendency to add
> things to their environment which spoils the minimalist look of
> their tank. The latest is a large and ugly sea shell which, despite
> my direst predictions, failed to kill off the fresh water fish. He
> read zoology and other assorted natural sciences (does one "read"
> natural sciences?) so he keeps telling me to trust him about these
> things.
>
listlessly looking as if about to die - we've found that adding a lot of
salt to the water solves the problem. Very odd, but true. Now we put in
about a quarter of a packet of salt every couple of months and they're
pretty healthy.
--
It's not what I share but the way that I share it - That's all, brother,
that's all. - Mae West
Geeza
>
> "Geeza" <gle...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:cle9m5$2ti$1...@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net...
> >
> > ". As
> > an interior decorator I have some very swish clients, sorry customers,
> >
> Fucking hell! Usenet is certainly becoming quite a widely read medium if
> we've got painters reading it!
>
> I hadn't really imagined that painters could read, but clearly some not
only
> read, but can post to usenet!
>
> I'm all for diversity - are there any plumbers here too?
I do plumbing too, Qualified Building Services Engineer (Find out what that
is before you venture forth with another supersillyarse comment)
Not that you should hold plumbers in contempt - have you got a bill from one
lately?. Have you tried to fix plumbing yourself? Have you received the sort
of bill that follows that activity. Have you studied the specifications the
commercial plumbers have to comply with.
People like you deserve to die of Legionnaires disease, Pontiac fever,
dysentry, cholera or some other nasty water borne disease.
BTW I do know how to spell supercillious
Interior decorating is something I do to express my creativity, and you
certainly are being very insulting to some of Moira's friends.
Geeza
Funny you should say that - I have a customer who is really scatty and does
not know what she wants. She is extremely critical and says really
denigrating things about plumbers - She keeps on threatening to with hold
payment if I do not comply with her requirements, most of which are in
contravention of local bye laws and health regulations. I decided to
reciprocate her contempt and I have not gone back - I do not want to do her
work and therefore do not find it necessarry to give her a bill. A follow on
contractor will reap the benefits when he sees the abandoned job and gets a
line on her attitude - he will charge accordingly. Meanwhile I do not want
her work nor any of the people that she associates with - they will probably
also be serious credit risks - If they only want to dispense attitude and do
not want to pay then they can swim in their own poep.
Peter H.M. Brooks
the past as a deeply enriching job.
--
First--That pleasure which produces no pain is to be embraced.
Second--That pain which produces no pleasure is to be avoided.
Third--That pleasure is to be avoided which prevents a greater
pleasure, or produces a greater pain.
Fourth--That pain is to be endured which averts a greater pain, or
secures a greater pleasure - Monsieur de l'Enclos
Geeza
>
> "Moira de Swardt" <moira.d...@wol.co.za> wrote in message
> news:5-Odne-tF4g...@is.co.za...
> >
> > "Peter H.M. Brooks" <pe...@new.co.za> wrote in message
> >
> >> I'm all for diversity - are there any plumbers here too?
> >
> > I need a new plumber. I haven't been all that happy with the one
> > I've been using recently. Mind you, that reminds me I haven't
> > received their most recent bill. I must follow it up.
> >
> That must be the best problem to have with a plumber. I'm mainly in need
of
> an Electrician, the main difficulty here is finding one that will turn up
on
> time sober.
>
>
a complete asshole and he can only get pisscats to do his work. This is
because he projects an attitude of superiority and denigrates the work
before it has even started. This makes him a clear credit risk so the word
on the street is to leave him to the desperados.
The advantage I have when contracting in the wider Building Services and
Interior Decorating / Design for living field is that I can backheel work
which does not suit me. I go to bed and feel good after a hard day's
creative work and I do not have to project myself as a pseud to anyone. I
recently studied at the same Uni at the Queen's nephew.
Geeza
So how come you do not chuck a frothie when peter supersillyarse denigrates
them
Geeza
A response in the classic supersillyarse style.
The truth is probably closer to the fact that people who deal in interiors
take one look at your concept of aesthetics and run a mile.
Yours is the sort of mentality that thinks it is a specialist at everything.
The sort that tries to do his own electrics because he regards trained
electricians as idiots. The sort that ends up paying thousands of rand for
remedial plumbing work after you have had a go at it yourself. You probably
do not see the need for a contractor because you are too niggardly to pay
the bill for a professional.
Most people should be their own interior decorators, however, if they have
full time jobs, they do not have the time to study the subject in depth and
develop a fabrication and installation facility alongside a materials
management and sourcing infrastructure. They need to consult, they need to
look at a range of products in order to reflect their own personality. I
would hate to think that I have fitted house like yours with taste,
elegance, style, form and function and it did not suit your personality.
I cannot relate to your paradigm because I have a business that consults
with people and assists them to develop their own choices. I have products
and services that allow them to be creative and use their personal
environment for refreshmant and not bracket themselves into a crusty self
righteous rut. You prefer to go to Scratch and Dent discounters and get a
Defy stove just like the neighbour only cheaper - with the latest marble top
counters! This rather than spend time with a person who can visit you with
an Aga catalogue. Do you do your own artwork because people like picasso
were superfluous?
Do you make your own cabinets because Chippendale was a jumped up asshole.
Please add me to the list of people whom you do not invite around, I would
not wish to interact with your robotic utterances.
Geeza
You have obviously not ever worked with a decorator or a designer who has
studied beyond the elementary concepts.
Like Peter HM Brooks you have been watching too many "Queer eye for the
straight guy" or "Celebrity makeovers" and form your ideas from these. This
means that you are, quite paradoxially, robotic in your approach. You plod
out your living design concepts that are formed in isolation without any
reference to the outside thinking that this constitutes individualism. It
constitutes self feeding and staleness.
" Yes Moira here is a piece by one of our designers called Yves Dubois, yes
he is a real frenchman! - he studied design at L'ecole Dynamique . His
designs are classic Contemporary European where form follows function but he
adds a healthy sprinkling of African Gothic.
Nice stuff hey ? Yes my dear he is actually a theatrical set designer who
has had to diversify due to the reductions in funding. He has a factory on
the east coast where he trains previously disadvantaged people to make his
designs.
No the desks are not available ex stock - we do not carry the cost of stock
as showrooms are expensive things when they are static never mind bringing
one into into your house, but he is able to produce a real wood object for
the same price you would pay for chip board at Bears. Do you want to look at
a cut and paste onto your room shape on the computer - see it will blend
well with the puce and purple crushed chintz curtains
No I do not charge a commission or a fee. As a reseller of his stuff I make
a good profit just as I do on the Modura stove that I am selling you, yes it
will save your back and it looks good too!
Before I will need to measure you for your desk and chair as Yves takes the
ergonomics into account and makes them individually - By the way what do you
think of the Sunken Garden that I did for Mrs Van Blerk - and see this deck
and spiral staircase - yes the gothic turret effect is rather startling but
he is that kind of guy. The design was very complex at first but I ran it
through a couple of times and got a structural engineer to certify the end
result. Not that he ever gets off the deck it to look at it from the
outside - too busy with his seaviews. He wants me to source him a good
telescope.
Yes I know that we all cannot afford that sort of stuff my dear but here is
a catalogue and I have brought some nice stuff together. No you will not
find it in Morkels but we could possibly match their price if you let us do
it ex-import.
Geeza
>
> "Moira de Swardt" <moira.d...@wol.co.za> wrote in message
> news:d7CdnZC6X-W...@is.co.za...
> >
> > >
> > There are uses for interior designers rather than interior
> > decorators. I bought an old flat which doesn't really work well in
> > many aspects. I would like to have an interior designer work
> > through the plans and make some suggestions to make it more workable
> > to the lifestyle I actually lead. However there is no money for
> > such things at the moment.
> >
> An architect would be more the person I would consider - they work at
making
> spaces liveable, they try to anyway.
>
> I wonder whether any architect, or indeed interior decorator, would have
the
> courage to examine your living area and come to the conclusion that,
> unwieldy as it is, it is already in the best state that it can be bar
> knocking it all down and starting again. I doubt it, I'd expect them to
> suggest the odd sky-light (if possible) and whatever is currently
> fashionable, in the '50s it was central 'islands' in the kitchen.
>
>
That statement is so symptomatic of your dreary poverty mentality. Do you
now classify Architects in the same category as you place Plumbers? Are they
crude technical people who have the temerity to charge for things that a
person like you should enjoy for free?
Are they silly people who wasted their time studying design and execution
for three bloody years when such things occur naturally to an elite person
such as yourself.
I actually wonder why you contribute to a newsgroup that discusses culture.
You denigrate creative people like architects and designers yet they are the
professionals that have developed the culture around you.
Nit wit - not only would an architect , or indeed interior decorator, have
the courage to examine your living area and come to the conclusion that, it
did not need "knocking it all down and starting again". He would relish in
the task of enhancing and or complimenting it with whatever it was that you
called him there for in the first place. (Or do you call people to consult
just to confirm that nothing needs to be done and that you are able to do a
satisfactory job yourself. Do you like to call them over for no reason and
tell them that they are wasting your time.
People who like central islands in the kitchen are human beings too.!
People with skylights are happier because natural light alleviates
depression. Thorn and Siemens have spent millions in trying to create
lightbulbs to produce that same spectra in order to alleviate Seasonal
ADjustment Syndrome amongst other things. A miserable old git like yourself
probably prefers depression bitterly turning over in his mind the fact that
he cannot afford a skylight.
Geeza
design. You are a person who wears her heart on her sleeve and thus would
not be too difficult to interpret. The plan would allow you to tackle the
lifestyle creation in bite sized chunks.
Go to www.ikea.co.uk They have some really nifty CAD style design programs
there. Drag and drop kitchen cabinets onto a plan etc. IKEA's designs may be
regarded by some as common and contemporary ( Peter HM Supersillyarse will
agree) I like the Scandanavian practical approach and the point is that
their stuff is good quality and affordable. Their minimalist semi classic
(yes I know about oxymorons Peter) styling can be co ordinated with a wide
range of influences without getting a mixed effect.
Peter H.M. Brooks
>
>
> Go to www.ikea.co.uk
>
Somebody really seems to have touched a raw nerve with you!
Why do you feel so insecure about it all? Surely it can't just be having a
weakness for Ikea!
Geeza
>
> "Geeza" <gle...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:cliknv$d7g$1...@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net...
> >
> >
> > Go to www.ikea.co.uk
> >
> Somebody really seems to have touched a raw nerve with you!
>
> Why do you feel so insecure about it all? Surely it can't just be having a
> weakness for Ikea!
Hmmm we have dispensed with the supersillyass denigration of plumbers,
architects, and others and we are going somewhere else with it.
No you should not flatter yourself with talk of raw nerves, I merely find
people with linear mentalities like yours to be rather loathsome, however it
would appear that you do not wish to discuss the matter further as the truth
possibly hurts.
Geeza
Hmm and what do you do other than play on the internet all day.
>
>
> --
> First--That pleasure which produces no pain is to be embraced.
>
> Second--That pain which produces no pleasure is to be avoided.
>
> Third--That pleasure is to be avoided which prevents a greater
> pleasure, or produces a greater pain.
>
> Fourth--That pain is to be endured which averts a greater pain, or
> secures a greater pleasure - Monsieur de l'Enclos
>
And following the obfusication created by your random cut ant paste program,
your point is ???
Geeza
Z z z z zz z zz z z z zz z z z zzz zz z zzz
Zzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzz
Peter H.M. Brooks
>
> "Peter H.M. Brooks" <pe...@new.co.za> wrote in message
> news:cliuil$63k$1...@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net...
> >
> > "Geeza" <gle...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:cliknv$d7g$1...@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net...
> > >
> > >
> > > Go to www.ikea.co.uk
> > >
> > Somebody really seems to have touched a raw nerve with you!
> >
> > Why do you feel so insecure about it all? Surely it can't just be having
a
> > weakness for Ikea!
>
> people with linear mentalities like yours to be rather loathsome, however
it
> would appear that you do not wish to discuss the matter further as the
truth
> possibly hurts.
>
No raw nerves and you still had to post half a dozen bitter diatribes about
your qualifications, proximity to royalty (well known for not being quite 50
Watts) at your poly and a strong defence of your ability to spell some two
syllable words.
I love your quaint remark about being at the Internet all day - I thought
that everybody had spotted the projection involved in that...
--
What was adult life but one moment of weakness piled on top of another? Most
people just fell in line like obedient children, doing exactly what society
JohnM
<pe...@new.co.za> writes
>
>"Moira de Swardt" <moira.d...@wol.co.za> wrote in message
>news:5-Odne-tF4g...@is.co.za...
>>
>> "Peter H.M. Brooks" <pe...@new.co.za> wrote in message
>>
>>> I'm all for diversity - are there any plumbers here too?
>>
>> I need a new plumber. I haven't been all that happy with the one
>> I've been using recently. Mind you, that reminds me I haven't
>> received their most recent bill. I must follow it up.
>>
>That must be the best problem to have with a plumber. I'm mainly in need of
>an Electrician, the main difficulty here is finding one that will turn up on
>time sober.
>
Here in the UK, plumbers get £100,000/year+. there was a famous article
in the news recently about a City analyst who enrolled on a plumber
course in order to get more money.
--
JohnM *sick of the sig, looking for a new one *
Peter H.M. Brooks
"JohnM" <jo...@scroll.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:y52I7eA8...@scroll.demon.co.uk...
pretty bad at his job to have seen that as a desirable increase - maybe he
was one of the hedge fund 'analysts' that are now as common as cockroaches
in the City.
--
"One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you
end up being governed by your inferiors.". Plato
Moira de Swardt
> > I need a new plumber. I haven't been all that happy with the
one
> > I've been using recently. Mind you, that reminds me I haven't
> > received their most recent bill. I must follow it up.
> Funny you should say that - I have a customer who is really scatty
and does
> not know what she wants. She is extremely critical and says really
> denigrating things about plumbers - She keeps on threatening to
with hold
> payment if I do not comply with her requirements, most of which
are in
> contravention of local bye laws and health regulations. I decided
to
> reciprocate her contempt and I have not gone back - I do not want
to do her
> work and therefore do not find it necessarry to give her a bill. A
follow on
> contractor will reap the benefits when he sees the abandoned job
and gets a
> line on her attitude - he will charge accordingly. Meanwhile I do
not want
> her work nor any of the people that she associates with - they
will probably
> also be serious credit risks - If they only want to dispense
attitude and do
> not want to pay then they can swim in their own poep.
The same firm has done several little oddments for me - this is an
old flat and the plumbing has been the greatest disaster. The last
two jobs have been badly done. The plumbing for my washing machine
has been routed to run out into the kitchen sink! This was contrary
to my instructions where I indicated that it was to be routed
directly into the waste pipe and there was a dispute because they
said it was impossible to do as I asked for some technical reason
and I queried why I was not consulted (I was sitting in the lounge
for the duration) which I thought had been resolved but which the
woman in the office says wasn't. The latest job involved an
overflowing loo, wasteful of water but hardly likely to cause
hygiene problems. It took several hours to repair and the bathroom
was left in an awful state. The agreed price was R380. So I'll
probably hold them to that although the job eventually took more
than three hours which seemed like an awful long time for whatever
the problem was. It is now the end of the month fiscally so I
assume the bill should have been in my letterbox by now. But I'm
not inclined to neglect the payment of my bills, so I'll follow it
up. To be fair, the latest job is satisfactory, but the dirty
bathroom after their departure did not please me as they certainly
found it in a pristine state.
Moira, the Faerie Godmother
Moira de Swardt
> > There are uses for interior designers rather than interior
> > decorators. I bought an old flat which doesn't really work well
in
> > many aspects. I would like to have an interior designer work
> > through the plans and make some suggestions to make it more
workable
> > to the lifestyle I actually lead. However there is no money for
> > such things at the moment.
> > The idea of someone telling me what I like, or should like, in
terms
> > of style of furnishings, would be ridiculous.
> You have obviously not ever worked with a decorator or a designer
who has
> studied beyond the elementary concepts.
You are right. I've never had the money for the kind of services
I'd like. The only remodelling I'm seriously considering is the
dreadful bathroom. Quite the most horrible I've ever endured.
> Like Peter HM Brooks you have been watching too many "Queer eye
for the
> straight guy" or "Celebrity makeovers" and form your ideas from
these. This
> means that you are, quite paradoxially, robotic in your approach.
You plod
> out your living design concepts that are formed in isolation
without any
> reference to the outside thinking that this constitutes
individualism. It
> constitutes self feeding and staleness.
I do try to keep my eye on the latest "trends" simply because I'm
like that, but as a serious customer I'm a failure.
> No the desks are not available ex stock - we do not carry the cost
of stock
> as showrooms are expensive things when they are static never mind
bringing
> one into into your house, but he is able to produce a real wood
object for
> the same price you would pay for chip board at Bears. Do you want
to look at
> a cut and paste onto your room shape on the computer - see it will
blend
> well with the puce and purple crushed chintz curtains
I'm very unlikely to know what the prices at Bears are. I would
certainly never buy all my furniture at one time. :-) And I only
have two tacky pieces of furniture. One inherited piece, ugly but
useful for the time being and one gift. I'm toying with the idea of
Regency striped curtains in royal or navy blue and cream (my lounge
is predominantly pale blue and cream). My present curtains are a
pale blue and beige floral on a cream background. Of course, I
might just go with unbleached calico with a rich blue trim.
> Yes I know that we all cannot afford that sort of stuff my dear
but here is
> a catalogue and I have brought some nice stuff together. No you
will not
> find it in Morkels but we could possibly match their price if you
let us do
> it ex-import.
Hmm. Bathrooms?
Moira, the Faerie Godmother
Moira de Swardt
> > > "Geeza" <gle...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > > > ". As
> > > > an interior decorator I have some very swish clients, sorry
> > customers,
> > > Fucking hell! Usenet is certainly becoming quite a widely read
> > medium if
> > > we've got painters reading it!
> > That reminds me. Someone asked me the other day if I knew of an
> > interior designer because their niece wanted to interview one.
Mark
> > knows about fourteen.
> So how come you do not chuck a frothie when peter supersillyarse
denigrates
> them
I'm not accustomed to throwing frothies and said that I'd be
perfectly happy to pay an interior designer to do work for me.
Surely that says it all?
Moira, the Faerie Godmother
Moira de Swardt
"Geeza" <gle...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> They could possibly produce a plan that takes a fresh approach to
the
> design. You are a person who wears her heart on her sleeve and
thus would
> not be too difficult to interpret. The plan would allow you to
tackle the
> lifestyle creation in bite sized chunks.
No, I'm sure I wouldn't be too difficult to interpret. I have a
very simple lifestyle. I've been studying bathrooms for the last
ten months. I know exactly what I want. I'm just not sure I can
both afford it and get the body corporate to agree to the external
aspects if the technical people can do it.
I want to :
Rip out the bathroom and start again.
Dispose of the electric geyser and replace it with a small but
efficient gas geyser.
Not put a bath back, but replace it with a really spacious shower
with a built in tiled seat
That flush tiling (no built up area demarcating the shower area)
with the completely clear glass to create a feeling and reality of
spaciousness in a really small area.
To skew the loo slightly so that it is as far away from the wall as
possible (whoever designed the present bathroom deserves to have to
use the loo every day).
A glass washbasin with built in vanity table
Large mirror
Closed shelving
A rehanging of the exterior window frames, if possible, so that Mark
can have the window open and still pee in private (doesn't affect us
when seated)
Replacement of window panes with coloured glass
Bathroom heater installed
Double towel rails
Moira, the Faerie Godmother
conciliator
> >
> > I've been using recently. Mind you, that reminds me I haven't
> > received their most recent bill. I must follow it up.
> >
of
> an Electrician, the main difficulty here is finding one that will turn up
on
> time sober.
But that must be a nation wide problem. Here they advertise in each and
every newspaper, obviously looking for work, be they painters (or interior
decoraters?) plumbies or sparks. You phone them for a looksee and a quote,
and no one pitches. BTW - if an interior decorator is a painter, what does
one call an exterior decorator?
conciliator
>
> "Peter H.M. Brooks" <pe...@new.co.za> wrote in message
> > "Moira de Swardt" <moira.d...@wol.co.za> wrote in message
>
> > > There are uses for interior designers rather than interior
> > > decorators. I bought an old flat which doesn't really work well
> in
> > > many aspects. I would like to have an interior designer work
> > > through the plans and make some suggestions to make it more
> workable
> > > to the lifestyle I actually lead. However there is no money for
> > > such things at the moment.
>
> > An architect would be more the person I would consider - they work
> at making
> > spaces liveable, they try to anyway.
>
> The only interior designer I know is an architect, but he does only
> interiors. When Gro Mango started posting here I mentioned that
> there were several architects in my life and that most of them had
> very specialised areas of expertise, including one who just designs
> service buildings or areas like "conveniences" and parking. :-)
Hey. I could do that. "Now, Joe, that's a PERFECT wall for a urinal."
And parking areas? As long as you can paint straight lines, you should be a
for away!
>
> > I wonder whether any architect, or indeed interior decorator,
> would have the
> > courage to examine your living area and come to the conclusion
> that,
> > unwieldy as it is, it is already in the best state that it can be
> bar
> > knocking it all down and starting again. I doubt it, I'd expect
> them to
> > suggest the odd sky-light (if possible) and whatever is currently
> > fashionable, in the '50s it was central 'islands' in the kitchen.
>
> There are certainly some things that could be done, such as knocking
> a hatch through from the kitchen to the lounge, and there is a
> useless passage area which could quite easily be incorporated into
> the kitchen/living area if we could make that more open plan. The
> one wall could be converted into a wine rack if strength would
> allow, and *I* can't see why not.
Being able to wield a 4 pound hammer would be useful here.
>
> The main bedroom which is now Mark's room but which I used as a
> dining room could be made much more functional simply by the
> effective use of fitted shelving and closet space. The living area
> needs to have the same fitted shelving built. I suspect that there
> are many things one can do to make the flat more user friendly if
> one was prepared to spend quite a bit of money on it. There is a
> tiny balcony which could be used to facilitate entertaining if the
> windows were converted to "French door" style windows, an alteration
> which wouldn't involve any structural changes.
There used to be a large selection of DIY books in book stores. Although one
doesn't have to be able to do the job yourself, you could get quite a few
good ideas from the magazines. If these are to costly, perhaps a visit to
the local library could assist. One is quite often allowed to make photo
copies of something that interests you.
--
conciliator
Peter H.M. Brooks
"conciliator" <nos...@home.com> wrote in message
news:3ZWdnaEy68B...@is.co.za...
--
The great majority of investors aren't stupid, their error is to believe
that those 'in the know' in finance have more information than they do,
which is true, but that this makes them savvier, which is a joke. - Bedlam
July newsletter
Geeza
It is honest work - can you say the same ?
conciliator
Probably becuase in a lot of automatic washing machines, the outlet pipe has
to be higher then the machine itself, failing which the water runs out as
fast as the machine fills. A plumber I had to make a similar connection as
what you were after couldn't solve the problem either, so the outlet hose
was to be placed into the sink. Decided to do a bit of DIY plumbing,
purchased some plastic waste pipe, attached it to the wall behind the
washing machine, attached a "T: piece, blocked off the bottom end of the
pipe (of course!) and attached it to the sink's drainpipe, and Bob was my
Aunty. The pipe from the washing machine was higher then the machine, and
the water was absorbed by the sink's waste pipe.
Moira de Swardt
"conciliator" <nos...@home.com> wrote in message
> "Moira de Swardt" <moira.d...@wol.co.za> wrote in message
> > The same firm has done several little oddments for me - this is
Where were you when I needed someone who understood the problem?
Although that's theoretically what one pays a plumber to know.
Moira, the Faerie Godmother
conciliator
Peter H.M. Brooks
>
> "Geeza" <gle...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:clngp8$hpg$1...@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net...
> >
> > "Peter H.M. Brooks" <pe...@new.co.za> wrote in message
> > news:clm42t$m1d$1...@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net...
> > > >
> > > > But that must be a nation wide problem. Here they advertise in each
> and
> > > > every newspaper, obviously looking for work, be they painters (or
> > interior
> > > > decoraters?) plumbies or sparks. You phone them for a looksee and a
> > quote,
> > > > and no one pitches. BTW - if an interior decorator is a painter,
what
> > does
> > > > one call an exterior decorator?
> > > >
> > > A painter.
> > >
> > >
> >
> > It is honest work - can you say the same ?
> >
> I can.........
>
of the government. I see no reason to assert it, though. If anybody has any
evidence of dishonesty then they have the courts to go to. If anybody choses
to make an issue of it, rather than simply make unsubtantiated innuendo then
I have the courts to go to as well.
There is no reason (apart from being dishonest) to protest your honesty.
Moira de Swardt
> > > It is honest work - can you say the same ?
> > I can.........
> So can most of us, bar, maybe, our Deputy President and some other
members
> of the government. I see no reason to assert it, though. If
anybody has any
> evidence of dishonesty then they have the courts to go to. If
anybody choses
> to make an issue of it, rather than simply make unsubtantiated
innuendo then
> I have the courts to go to as well.
> There is no reason (apart from being dishonest) to protest your
honesty.
Oh? Were we supposed to assert that what we do for a living is
honest?
Earning one's living is ethically interesting. Abortionists,
sellers of cigarettes, even sellers of alcohol and, of course,
radical fundamental preachers from various religions earn "honest"
livings. Yet they sometimes do a tremendous amount of harm.
Moira, the Faerie Godmother
Peter H.M. Brooks
>
>
> Earning one's living is ethically interesting. Abortionists,
> sellers of cigarettes, even sellers of alcohol and, of course,
> radical fundamental preachers from various religions earn "honest"
> livings. Yet they sometimes do a tremendous amount of harm.
>
state can be spent on very harmful things, if you're lucky it just gets
spent on presidential jets and backhanders for arms deals.
You raise a good question about preachers of various sorts. I used to be
convinced (after originally signing up to be one) that it was a completely
parasitical and wicked occupation, however, it is now clear to me that some
people need religion and it can lead to them having healthier lives. I still
think this unfortunate and I think it quite wrong for children not to be
given a proper choice, but the job, so long as it doesn't involve
proselytising, is an honest one.
I'm all in favour of the legalisation of all drugs because selling them
honestly is far better than having them driven underground. Compare a coke
dealer with the person at the cigarette counter at Pick 'n Pay and you can
see what I mean!
It is inconsistent to wish to prevent people from buying cigarettes that
will probably kill them whilst still being quite happy for them to buy
motorcars that may well do the same - as well as polluting the air and
poisoning the rest of us in both cases.
Though I know that some barmen can be dishonest (I was lucky enough to get
my job because the previous incumbent had been fired for cooking the books)
the job itself is honest enough - unlike proselytising priests you aren't
ramming an unpleasant and unpalatable substance down people's throats,
you're giving people a relaxing evening.
I think that the current vogue for looking at people as victims has a lot to
answer for. People who beat their wives or have punch ups in bars under the
influence of alcohol are responsible for their condition, it is not that
they are victims of alcohol.
--
'It is quite a dark day' - Emma, on opening the curtains to prove that night
is in fact day
Moira de Swardt
"Peter H.M. Brooks" <pe...@new.co.za> wrote in message
> You raise a good question about preachers of various sorts. I used
to be
> convinced (after originally signing up to be one) that it was a
completely
> parasitical and wicked occupation, however, it is now clear to me
that some
> people need religion and it can lead to them having healthier
lives. I still
> think this unfortunate and I think it quite wrong for children not
to be
> given a proper choice, but the job, so long as it doesn't involve
> proselytising, is an honest one.
Well, now that we've established that I can rest in peace about my
occupation. :-)
> I think that the current vogue for looking at people as victims
has a lot to
> answer for. People who beat their wives or have punch ups in bars
under the
> influence of alcohol are responsible for their condition, it is
not that
> they are victims of alcohol.
Years ago I read a counselling book, I forget who wrote it save to
say that it was a religious fundamentalist, that put all the blame
for everything, including mental illness, on the person themselves.
It was interesting as a concept and certainly over the years I've
tried the theory, sometimes successfully, on "hard" cases.
Moira, the Faerie Godmother
Peter H.M. Brooks
>
> "Peter H.M. Brooks" <pe...@new.co.za> wrote in message
>
>> You raise a good question about preachers of various sorts. I used
> to be
>> convinced (after originally signing up to be one) that it was a
> completely
>> parasitical and wicked occupation, however, it is now clear to me
> that some
>> people need religion and it can lead to them having healthier
> lives. I still
>> think this unfortunate and I think it quite wrong for children not
> to be
>> given a proper choice, but the job, so long as it doesn't involve
>> proselytising, is an honest one.
>
> Well, now that we've established that I can rest in peace about my
> occupation. :-)
>
comfort.
>
>> I think that the current vogue for looking at people as victims
> has a lot to
>> answer for. People who beat their wives or have punch ups in bars
> under the
>> influence of alcohol are responsible for their condition, it is
> not that
>> they are victims of alcohol.
>
> Years ago I read a counselling book, I forget who wrote it save to
> say that it was a religious fundamentalist, that put all the blame
> for everything, including mental illness, on the person themselves.
> It was interesting as a concept and certainly over the years I've
> tried the theory, sometimes successfully, on "hard" cases.
>
I've known some barmy people who would have rubbed along reasonably well if
they hadn't overindulged in ganja and LSD. It is a little hard, I agree, to
blame them completely as these drugs can be taken as a result of the
condition or parts of the condition.
As with most things, it is a matter of balance. It isn't all the wicked
world turning people that way as many people from horrible abusive
backgrounds turn out to be charming and successful happy people whilst those
from the best backgrounds end up as low-life. It also isn't as you point
out, entirely the fault of the person concerned - though I do think that
suicide is a very nasty thing for anybody to do to their friends and family
and it means that suicides are, at the very least, very selfish people.
--
Obscurantism in an academic subject expands to fill the vacuum of its
intrinsic simplicity. - Dawkins' Law of the Conservation of Difficulty,
stated in 'A Devil's Chaplain'
Camel
How about a family-less and friendless committer of suicide?
(Would that be a victimless crime?)
=============
Regards,
Camel
=============
"If God did not intend for us to eat animals, why
did he make them out of meat?" - John Cleese
Moira de Swardt
> > Well, now that we've established that I can rest in peace about
my
> > occupation. :-)
> I doubt that my opprobrium or the reverse would have much effect
on your
> comfort.
Don't you *read* this forum. I'm suppose to be *desperate* for
approval. :-)
> As with most things, it is a matter of balance. It isn't all the
wicked
> world turning people that way as many people from horrible abusive
> backgrounds turn out to be charming and successful happy people
whilst those
> from the best backgrounds end up as low-life. It also isn't as you
point
> out, entirely the fault of the person concerned - though I do
think that
> suicide is a very nasty thing for anybody to do to their friends
and family
> and it means that suicides are, at the very least, very selfish
people.
People are interesting creatures.
Moira, the Faerie Godmother
Peter H.M. Brooks
>
> "Peter H.M. Brooks" <pe...@new.co.za> wrote in message
>> "Moira de Swardt" <moira.d...@wol.co.za> wrote in message
>> > "Peter H.M. Brooks" <pe...@new.co.za> wrote in message
>
>> > Well, now that we've established that I can rest in peace about
> my
>> > occupation. :-)
>
>> I doubt that my opprobrium or the reverse would have much effect
> on your
>> comfort.
>
> Don't you *read* this forum. I'm suppose to be *desperate* for
> approval. :-)
>
groups through filters, usually this only improves the view.
>
>> As with most things, it is a matter of balance. It isn't all the
> wicked
>> world turning people that way as many people from horrible abusive
>> backgrounds turn out to be charming and successful happy people
> whilst those
>> from the best backgrounds end up as low-life. It also isn't as you
> point
>> out, entirely the fault of the person concerned - though I do
> think that
>> suicide is a very nasty thing for anybody to do to their friends
> and family
>> and it means that suicides are, at the very least, very selfish
> people.
>
> People are interesting creatures.
>
--
"I can generally manage to attend to more than one thing at a time," said
Serena, rashly; "I think I must have a sort of double brain."
"Much better to economise and have one really good one," observed Lady
Caroline. - Saki The Unbearable Bassington
Peter H.M. Brooks
"Camel" <thi...@cryogenics.net> wrote in message
news:8iv4o0dk9igpserta...@4ax.com...
little more understandable. However aquaintances can be upset, so it is not
vicimless - not that it is a crime in most places these days.
--
side. Some clubs still use the
game for a garden-party, where long trailing skirts, sunshades, and
basket chairs predominate. Perhaps a game or two is played in the cool
of the evening. That sort of club should be avoided if you are a keen
and enthusiastic player. - Lawn Tennis for Ladies
conciliator
Somehow I think the phrase "honest work" was not meant to express honesty s
against dishonesty. I think it stood for "real" work, like plumbing maybe???
:>)
--
conciliator