Marriage Breakdown ,Who Is To Blame!!!
J.J.Jama
>From: am...@chass.utoronto.ca (Amina Mire)
>Newsgroups: soc.culture.somalia
>Subject: Re: Marriage breakdown equals...
>Date: 1 Dec 1997 12:03:25 -0500
>This takes me to my next question. Somali men, I think,
>for the most part, are the victims of the sins of the father.
>They simply treat women as their fathers did, marry them
>as they please and get rid off them by uttering three times:
" I divorce you, I divorce you, I divorce you".
>I have seen enough so called educated Somali men who
>deal with women exactly the same fashion as their fathers
>did. This indeed is the second source of the tension-- our
>Somali men, have not quite able to sever the bonds which
>connects them to their father's ways.
Dear Bother and sisters , this was very interesting thread
that very interesting arguments and ideas was put forward
and tossed around and was enjoying reading that exchange,
thanks to Haidar ,Bashir ,Safiya ,Farah , Abdirashid , Amina
and others, but what catch my eye and force me to add my
opinion here is sister Amin’s claim or assertion that we
men act like our Fathers; Very strange argument ,and I am
not sure If she meant by that either compliment or insult ,
or both ;what is wrong with acting like your Father and
hope before you write such vague and strange comment
like that to qualify it and elaborate what was wrong with
our fathers ways . (you mention two reasons and it is part of
interpretation of our religion , and many men will not
negotiate on that based on religious conviction grounds)
Sisters & Brothers , I don’t think any good will come out
such blanket accusation and blaming one side alone for the
woes and breakdown of Somali Family , No doubt this is a
very complex problem and would have been better If you
approach us as we can be part of the solution rather than
blaming us as being the Problem Itself . Amina What you
are saying here is Similar to the Idea of original sin , and
man’s blame Eve for his fall from grace and Paradise , it will
be very difficult to have any meaning full discussion if we
enter into this discussion carrying the sins of our fathers, If
such thing ever exists any way I did rather enter into this
discussion as the generation we are clean and pure and take
full responsibility for our actions and deeds , after all no
single Somali men can look himself on the mirror and feel
proud after failing his country ,religion and people .
Dear Brother and sisters :
If we accept our sister’s claim as it is , for argument sake
what is wrong with imitating your father and doing the same
things they used to do and behave like them, it is not that
the natural way that generation pass the baton of cultures
and customs, experience and knowledge to each other ; and
my big question to the sister is this : Why our sisters failed
to follow suite and act like their mothers to submissive and
obedient and compliant to man’s needs and desires their
husband and live by the rules set by men when women they
did not have any political or economy clout .
Sister : we are not like our father who were in total control
and no women dared to challenge them or talk them back
and in an average they married 3 or more at once , and roles
of men and women were very clear and in no dispute who
was the boss , and women were very content to live by the
rules set by men , unless some one can provide prove other
wise , that women were not happy those days .
Sister and Brothers I am not disputing here , our society put
women in a very disadvantage position and treated like
property , so when one man dies she is transferred to his
brother or close relative (Dumal) and men made sure that
women not to be in a strong position and power to
challenge them .and you will see in response to this some
strange dude will argue , women should never have any
authority or power based on religious ground .
IMHO, It is very simple and easy to understand , there is no
mystery as a general rule for all Humanity “ He/She who
has the Gold and makes the Rules” and gold here can be
knowledge, wealthy , power, strong etc. , and simply men
got that Gold first; or born with it, So men always tried to
keep women away to possess or share with them that Gold ,
and societies that oppress women most, they don’t allow
them up to now the simple right of working , voting ; even
driving , simply free of movement or even dining out will
bring interrogation and questioning from strangers.
I don’t think men act the way they do out of malice ,or
hurting women , we generally respect our mother ,wives
and sisters and daughters and whatever we do wrong is out
of ignorance and arrogance and we don’t now better than
that, and Amina instead of blaming the fathers alone the
blame should lie with the Mothers too who could have
profound influence on their boys and failed to well prepare
to change their bad habits and ways.
In conclusion, IMO , The reasons for our marriage
breakdown in the west is that we hav’t not yet adjusted or
prepared for the new environment , that our women got
very easily part of that gold , financial independence and
rights and freedom, and didn’t know how to handle that ,
and I don’t know is it out of revenge and just our women
enjoying and having fun in applying their newly found
power of kicking man out of the house , today that is the
trend , and hope that trend will not last long , and will get
over this and our sisters get back to their senses .
Sisters it is time to stop the madness of kicking your
husband out of the house , and open a dialogue and I hope
Somali Women will spell the reasons. And tell us what
Somali women want from Somali men , single parent house
will never be the solution and it is failure.
J.J.Jama
Abdi Daud
>On Dec 6 1997 <ja...@inforamp.net> wrote:
>and men made sure that
>women not to be in a strong position and power to
>challenge them .and you will see in response to this some
>strange dude will argue , women should never have any
>authority or power based on religious ground .
If Islam finds women a role that fit their nature, so what is wrong to operate
under that umberalla?.
Islam has given the muslim women a role. Once they negated that responsibility
we have this mayhem and malice. And those who had raised false slogans for
womens in the west, neither women got the authority nor saved their power and
society at large lost in the middle.
>and societies that oppress women most, they don’t allow
>them up to now the simple right of working , voting ; even
>driving , simply free of movement or even dining out will
>bring interrogation and questioning from strangers.
>I d
It is abused so often!!. The word oppression has become politically incorrect
as human right had become parell the mindset of western world. If we want to
act as Islam asks to do, then we should let womens run their empires according
the Islamic limit..
They will negate their modestiy and dignity if they often go and dine out. And
feeling as rock-ribbed on principle, those who care the well being of muslim
women in west will question the wisdom of any non islamic setting that cries
for inferences within Islam.
Ina Da'ud
J.J.Jama
From: abdi...@aol.com (Abdi Daud)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.somalia
Subject: Re: Marriage Breakdown ,Who Is To Blame!!!
Date: 6 Dec 1997 17:08:02 GMT
>If Islam finds women a role that fit their nature, so what is
>wrong to operate under that umberalla?.
>Islam has given the muslim women a role. Once they
>negated that responsibility we have this mayhem and
>malice. And those who had raised false slogans for
>womens in the west, neither women got the authority nor
>saved their power and society at large lost in the middle.
>Ina Da'ud
Dear Brother Aw Dau’d :
I don’t read minds and I don’t want to guess what is in
your mind , can you please elaborate what role you have in
mind for Somali women in your narrow understanding for
the religion of Islam,? Do you have for her any role other
than to be dependent on man and controlled by man. Can
she work and earn a living ? Can she get involved In
Politics? Get educated ? and what is the highest position she
can Hold?
And can she Hold cabinet position or ministerial ?
I hope you will be very specific and direct.
J.J.Jama
Abdi Daud
>On Dec 7 1997, <ja...@inforamp.net> writes:
>
>From: abdi...@aol.com (Abdi Daud)
>Newsgroups: soc.culture.somalia
>Subject: Re: Marriage Breakdown ,Who Is To Blame!!!
>Date: 6 Dec 1997 17:08:02 GMT
>If Islam finds women a role that fit their nature, so what is
>>wrong to operate under that umberalla?.
>>Islam has given the muslim women a role. Once they
>>negated that responsibility we have this mayhem and
>>malice. And those who had raised false slogans for
>>womens in the west, neither women got the authority nor
>>saved their power and society at large lost in the middle.
>>Ina Da'ud
>
>
>Dear Brother Aw Dau’d :
>
>I don’t read minds and I don’t want to guess what is in
>your mind ,
You shouldn't guess what is in Ghayb. Simple and clear.
> can you please elaborate what role you have in
>mind for Somali women in your narrow understanding for
>the religion of Islam,?
I will Allah willing but Its not surprise to see a luminous!!! man like you
who deny openly authentic axaadith as he desires to have this kind of pre value
judgement without valid insight.
Do you have for her any role other
>than to be dependent on man and controlled by man.
Yeah I do and listen this carefully Aw Jamac.
"The status of women in Islam constitutes no problem. The attitude of the Quran
and the early Muslims bear witness to the fact that women is, at least, as
vital to life as man himself, and that she is not inferior to him nor is she
one of the lower species. Had it not been for the impact of foreign cultures
and alien influences, this question would have never arisen among the muslims.
The status of women was taken for granted to be equal to that of man. It was a
matter of course, a matter of fact, and no one, then considered it as a problem
at all.
"The rights and responsibilities of a women are equal to those of a man but
they are not necessarily identical with them. Equality and sameness are two
different things.
" This distiction between equality and sameness is of paramount importance.
Equality is desirable, just, fair; but sameness is not.
.....Had her status been identical with his, she would have been simply
dublicate of him, which she is not.
Women is recognized by Islam as a full and equal partner of man in the
procreation of humankind. He is the father; she is the mother, and both are
essential for life. Her role is no less vital than his.
...God Says:
"O mankind verily We have created you from a single (pair) of a male and a
female, and made you into nations and tribes that you may know each other..
(Alxujuraat)
"She is equal to man in bearing personal and common sense responsibilty and in
recieving rewards for her deeds She is acknowledged as an independent
personality, in possession of human qualities and worthy of spiritual
aspiration.
...God Says
" And their Lord has accepted (their prayers) and answered them (saying: Never
will I cause to be lost the work of any of you, be he male or female; you are
members, one of another...3:195"
She is equal to man in the pursuit of education and knowledge (that fit her
nature). When Islam enjoins the seeking of knowledge upon muslims, it makes no
distinction between man and women. Almost fourteen centuries ago (our prophet)
Muhammad declared that the pursuit of knowledge in incumbent on every Muslim
male and female. This declaration was very clear and was implemented by muslims
throught history.
She is entitled to freedom of expression (with Islamic boundries) as much as
man is. Her sound opinions (that is based on Islamic xuja) are taken into
consideration (When it comes into fiqil Islam).
"Historical records show that women participated in public with the early
Muslims, especially in times of emergencies. Women used to company the muslim
armies engaged in battle to nurse the wouded, prepare supplies, serve the
warriors and so on. (Furthermore, theyre allowed to be combative if enemy
penetrate the land of Islam).They were no shut behind iron bar or considered
worthless creatures and deprived of souls.
Islam grants women equal rights to contract, to enterprise, to earn and possess
independently. Her life, her property, her honor are (respected) as those of a
man
Islam does not state these rights in a statistical form and then relax. It has
taken all measures to safegaurd them and put into practice as integral articles
of faith. It never tolerates those who are inclined to prejudice against women.
>Can she work and earn a living ?
> Can she get involved In
>Politics?
If you mean can she be elected, the answer is no
Get educated ?
Yes but not every education.
> and what is the highest position she
>can Hold?
She is keeping the Universal university open. And disrupting this will not
benefited the society. According to the Xadith of Lan Yuflixuu Qawmahun and
other adillah she is not allowed to leave her primary job and do man's job.
>And can she Hold cabinet position or ministerial ?
Equally so, NO.
>I hope you will be very specific and direct.
I hope I was.
For curiosity, what is your stand about your questions.
Ina Da'ud
>J.J.Jama
Lib...@hotmail.com
Ina Da'ud lighten up bro. What you mean a woman can get educated but not
very educated? What kind of logic is that and where is the limit of
knowledge. How can restrict somebody's ability to attain information or
from gaining knowledge without physically isolated him/her from soceity.
What you are saying and what your intentions are different.
Everybody can sense how rotten that statement is. And for one thing, it
will not be a somali girl that you can do that to her becouse we will not
allow you abuse our sisters and mothers of our children in any form.
They will live life as they please. If you want to imprison women go find
some where else that excepts the imprinsonment of women in the name of
Islam. We are somalians and that means our mothers and sisters know and
value their freedom and eventhough they are pure moslims, they sure
wouldn't appriciete someone with that attitude. That is the kind of
attitude I was referring to when I said about the attitude of the
wadaadada. your ignorance make all of us sick.
And you quoting Dr; Turabi all along in your chat with brother J.J Jama
pretending that everything come from that brain of yours. It is only
appropriete to give credit to whoever you quote from.
At the end you have disgraced everybody with that statement, above all
Dr;Turabi's paper and the Islamic philosiphies behind it. It is too big
of a loud for you obviously.
Mr Da'ud your [this] attitude is evil in the absulate term and totoly
an-islamic, it sure can't be anything we know in the somali tradition.
You owe a big apology to all of the Islamic Women and men around the
world or you should be given a No-contact Contract with women issued by
court and see how you would like that.
ceeb alla ha asturo.
libaaan
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bashir ali
Lib...@hotmail.com wrote:
> We are somalians and that means our mothers and sisters know and
> value their freedom and eventhough they are pure moslims, they sure
> wouldn't appriciete someone with that attitude. That is the kind of
> attitude I was referring to when I said about the attitude of the
> wadaadada. your ignorance make all of us sick.
Just as a "wadaad" might exercise
a discriminatory tendency towards
the opposite sex, so also a "non-wadaad"
Libaan, since you always refer to some people as
wadaado, I just thought that I remind you the
*double-dealing* or *hypocrisy* a non-wadaad
might engage when he talks about the rights or
the freedom of women.
For example, you claimed in this
newsgroup, not long ago, that a
woman is a:
--"useless like a piece of junk"
Unless, she realizes her:
--"job or role in this world"
Which is:
--"to love men no matter what"
Bashir.
Lib...@hotmail.com
First of all I have preached love not hate. Second , I will not call
people like you wadaad ever again, becouse that way to much respect and
humaization for you and it is big time degrading for the wadaadada. But I
hope you stop contaminating this news group with your venom , don't have
any a life.
I have been looking at the your portfolio in this news group. Bashir you
have written over five hundred articles and none of them is of no value
at all. They are all the same , pure nonesense. It is clear that you have
so much hatred that you are too weak to project or express it in anyway.
Second I find most of your articles devilish and demonic, eventhough you
refer to Islam all the time,anyone can see the the red eyed devil that is
hiding in the shadow.
If you cannot change for the better , at least Don't you believe in
retirement, positive people could use the space for positive causes. That
is when I put it in a nice way , but may be your intentions are to
disturb any possible connection or bond between the people in our
community. If it is the later, I make sure you get what you deserve while
I am having fun at your expense.
I have tried to reason with you but you are no where to be found. That is
why I will stand for myself agianst people like you any where , anytime I
have the chance. ceeb alla ha asturo libaan
bashir ali
Lib...@hotmail.com wrote:
> First of all I have preached love not hate.
Libaan, you can rehabilitate yourself as much as
you want, but your words that you have preached
to us don't let you get a way with your true nature.
In another words, your words don't lie and even
if we don't know you, personally, we have learned
from recent writings your unbecoming words towards
women.
> Second , I will not call people like you wadaad
> ever again, becouse that way to much respect and
> humaization for you and it is big time degrading
> for the wadaadada.
Libaan, again, you are impervious to correction.
I mean, if one reads your own words and what you say
about the wadaadada, one rerly observes any *respect* for
wadaadada in your words.
> But I hope you stop contaminating this news group with your
> venom , don't have any a life.
> I have been looking at the your portfolio in
> this news group. Bashir you have written over
> five hundred articles and none of them is of
> no value at all. They are all the same, pure
> nonesense.
Libaan, it seems to me, you are a person, who have
irrational and deep-seated dread of my views, such
morbid dread of fear is called, in the language of
psychology, a phobia.
> It is clear that you have so much hatred that
> you are too weak to project or express it in anyway.
> Second I find most of your articles devilish and demonic, eventhough you
> refer to Islam all the time,anyone can see the the red eyed devil that is
> hiding in the shadow.
Thanks for your kind words.
> If you cannot change for the better , at least Don't you believe in
> retirement, positive people could use the space for positive causes.
There are many people in this newsgroup whose
views I admire. These people, in their views and
intentions which I consider to be positive, will never
receive criticism from me; however, when I read the views
of those who insult our religion and other people, they are the
ones who refused for me to retire from here and never post
anything to this newsgroup.
Libaan, my comments about the things these
you write and when I criticize and question about
your opinion of women or religion, I'm anticipating to
receive the typical reaction as the one you are offering here.
> I have tried to reason with you but you are no
> where to be found. That is why I will stand for
> myself agianst people like you any where , anytime I
> have the chance.
Libaan, you can vent your anger, resentment or
irritation at me when I point out your blunder.
However, I think it is a mark of ones own emotional
maturity if he can accept challenge and hostility as
well as dish it out without getting angry.
So, you defend yourself in anyway you want; you can
debate in a civilized way or you can resort to insults as it
often happens when emotions run high, but don't expect from me
to exchange insults with you.
> ceeb alla ha asturo libaan
Amiin.
Bashir.
Abdi Daud
> On Dec 10 1997, Lib...@hotmail.com wrote
>
>Ina Da'ud lighten up bro. What you mean a woman can get educated but not
>very educated?
I mean women can be educated to their physical limit. Not beyond that. Period.
They can learn islamic knowledge, medicine and all humanities but certain
education if they get even in their from theoratical perespective then they
don't have physical capacity to execute it. You shouldn't close the primary
job of educated muslim women. We can't afford day cares and pushing women to do
man's job. Simple and clear.
>What kind of logic is that and where is the limit of
>knowledge. How can restrict somebody's ability to attain information or
>from gaining knowledge without physically isolated him/her from soceity.
I'm not restricting any information from the women. I am talking only the
ability to handle some of this information in practical way in real world. Get
it. Once Islam defines the role of men and women clear and simple and the
societies react to it into positive way, then we don't need any physical
seperation that you imagine here.
>What you are saying and what your intentions are different.
No, Liban. Before accusing my stand, check your understanding my simple
statement.
>Everybody can sense how rotten that statement is.
It not rotten nor its Ina Da'ud simple saying this statement.
> And for one thing, it
>will not be a somali girl that you can do that to her becouse we will not
>allow you abuse our sisters and mothers of our children in any form.
>They will live life as they please.
Liban, you can disagree with me if you have an Islamic knowledge but not
browing these jargon laguage. I just expressed an idea and conviction I hold it
dear. Secondly, you're not guddomiyaha dumarka Soomaaliyeed to speak on behalf
them. We're all the sons/brother etc of our dear Somali women. Cool Down in
peace, brother. Our women will do what Allah pleases not as they pleases.
>If you want to imprison women go find
>some where else that excepts the imprinsonment of women in the name of
>Islam.
Liban, no one is putting our dear Somali women imprision in the name of Islam.
Let you have magnanimous with the real foundation of Islam.
>We are somalians and that means our mothers and sisters know >andvalue their
freedom and eventhough they are pure moslims, they sure
>wouldn't appriciete someone with that attitude. That is the kind of
>attitude I was referring to when I said about the attitude of the
>wadaadada.
I hope you don't have a deadly gun in you hand then shoot of anyone who dare to
differ your secular mindset. I saw you many times in this medium preaching how
to attain mutual respect and good attitude while altering the foundation of
civilized attitude. Before I mark red the upcoming statemen in below let me
remind you what already brother Bashir told you before regarding this kind of
attitude.
You said with swagger to one of the respected sisters not long ago and I qoute
:
"Usless like a piece of junk"
"job or role in this world"
Which you meant
"to love men no matter what"
Liban, please do what you preach.
> your ignorance make all of us sick.
Again, if this statement is not crying for a civilized attitude what else?.
Btw, whom you mean, us?.
>And you quoting Dr; Turabi all along in your chat with brother J.J Jama
>pretending that everything come from that brain of yours. It is only
>appropriete to give credit to whoever you quote from.
I only realized today that I missed to tell the source of these qoutes. That
was nisyaan from my side not a deliberate plagiarism and JALLA JALAALUHU manlaa
yansaa. My record speaks loud and clear that I never claim the work of others.
See for instances the Axaadiths that I posted in this medium. You will find how
far I keep distances the comments I add to it and the origin of the text with
this ( ).
FYI, Dr Turabi is not the one I qouted here and I don't know where you get
that. He is Hammudah Abdalati Book of, Islam in focus, chapter: the status of
women in Islam, p.184.
>At the end you have disgraced everybody with that statement, above all
>Dr;Turabi's paper and the Islamic philosiphies behind it. It is too big
>of a loud for you obviously.
>
>Mr Da'ud your [this] attitude is evil in the absulate term and totoly
>an-islamic, it sure can't be anything we know in the somali tradition.
>
>You owe a big apology to all of the Islamic Women and men around the
>world or you should be given a No-contact Contract with women issued by
>court and see how you would like that.
As long as you simply speak on top of your head without daliil sharci enjoy
whatever insult you may label on me or other honorable members. I am not the
one who insult back, people because, they simple disagree with my firm stand.
I think this kind of fray will do little of intellectual discussion.
Once you speak with an Islamic evidence from Quran and sunnah then I have ear
to your argument. Untill then good luck and do in a civilized manner what you
preach.
Qaala Alshaaciru:
"Laa tanha can khuliqin wa ta'tiya mithluhu
caarun calayka idaa facalta cadiimu."
Ina Da'ud
>ceeb alla ha asturo.
Aamin.
>libaaan
lib...@hotmail.com
>
> > I have tried to reason with you but you are no
> > where to be found. That is why I will stand for
> > myself agianst people like you any where , anytime I
> > have the chance.
>
> Libaan, you can vent your anger, resentment or
> irritation at me when I point out your blunder.
>
>Obviously you are even communicating in a different wavelenght also. We need
to move on and I do wanna move with you, but it is impossible , something
about you reminds me about the war-lord politics of the present somalia.
Bashir they lack knowledge and reason alligned with feeling and so you
are. Everything is entertainment for you and Ina Da'ud,it is not adult
like. This is our lifes, and I am serious when I write things in this
group in the hope of finding something real and responsible, making
connection to people who would like and are serious about our general
situation.
I feel that it is our generation that is responsible for coming the
solution of our present problem. Through establisshing bridges of
communication (positive), carefully considering , organizing and
reinventing our scattered selfs is the the duties that we can't escape.
Already alot of(us) people are saying "oh this has no solution" "We
crossed the point of no return" and anyone that thinks that way has the
right to do so , but not at the expense of those who will not give up,
those who will try to and can afford effort, even though they may lack
the know-how and the help of both their own walaalo and the rest of the
world, but they still see hope.
Brother bashir that is where I couldn't find you, I have nothing but
walaalnima(eventhough I don't know you personally ,I still think you are
somali)when it comes to personal. But you are slowing down the cause with
your personal games. For me , so far you didn't hurt my feelings and I
truelly doubt that you are capable of doing it, just to answer your past
personal comment. But that is not the case, the case is you want to put
me in place where I have to defend myself against your aquisations, now
that is when I find you standing against the train. You strike me as
innocent , someone who has a great potential of becoming a true beleiver,
and I have respect for that, but stay on your own shoes and that includes
Mr: Da'ud.
For Mr: Da'ud after reading your massage that you have sent to my privete
e-mail, I find it not-so-positive and I don't expect you doing it again.
Let us confine things and argumentative exchanges to the postings and not
take it little bit deeper. But of course if you become more positive the
account is like yours.
Brothers I hope that our discusion creates hope and understanding and
also creates a place where unites people of different level of knowledge
,wealth , age ,expirience, and religion in the name of somali.
I am leaving for a trip and I wish all of you happy new year.
ceeb alla ha asturo
Libaan
bashir ali
lib...@hotmail.com wrote:
> We need to move on and I do wanna move with you,
> but it is impossible, something about you reminds
> me about the war-lord politics of the present somalia.
> Bashir they lack knowledge and reason alligned with
> feeling and so you are.
Libaan, this is a newsgroup where people voice their
views and it is impossible to avoid disagreements.
If you didn't receive disagreement from me, you would
most likely have gotten from someone else.
The only way one may avoid opposing veiws,
send e-mail to yourself or don't post anything
to here, especially, insults towards women and
religion.
> Brother bashir that is where I couldn't find you,
> I have nothing but walaalnima(eventhough I don't
> know you personally ,I still think you are somali)
> when it comes to personal. But you are slowing down
> the cause with your personal games.
The only thing I'm trying to lessen is the insults towards
women and religion, because the love I have for both of them. :)
> For me, so far you didn't hurt my feelings and I
> truelly doubt that you are capable of doing it,
> just to answer your past personal comment.
Well, my intentions were not to hurt anyone's
feeling. I don't think I insulted you, did I?
> Brothers I hope that our discusion creates hope and understanding and
> also creates a place where unites people of different level of knowledge
> ,wealth , age ,expirience, and religion in the name of somali.
I'll try my best, I hope you do the same.
> ceeb alla ha asturo
Amiin.
Bashir.
ahmed ahmed
BR. LIIBAAN
I have read few arguments that have been written by you, and so far you
failed to make any sense in your writings according to Islam. It may be
wiser for you to write among other subjects rather. However, if you feel
that women should be forced to work while breast feeding or pregnant,
which is the point that seems to be your main issue, then waad iga
tufantahay.
Take care
Axmadey
J.J.Jama
Date: 10 Dec 1997 07:14:11 GMT
>Yeah I do and listen this carefully Aw Jamac.
>the fact that women is, at least, as
>vital to life as man himself,……
>The status of women was taken for granted to be equal to
>that of man. It was a
>"The rights and responsibilities of a women are equal to
>those of a man but
Dear Brother Aw Daud:
I was not surprised , the response you gave Here, it was
expected from self appointed One man committee against
vice and lewd conduct in this forum , but what surprise me
how confused you are; or trying to confuse us, and wishy
washy , and you have no idea what you are saying , and
trying to take in this forum free and fast trip of misleading;
deception , saying something and contradicting it; and
concluding with some thing else such a scam can only work
if the are no rebuttals or scrutiny .
Aw Daud Although , the heavy guns and long range
missiles of this form are silent , Trouble for you if they are
activated.
Aw Daud : I am Glad here , you are exposing and showing
us your true colors , intentions and you have nothing for
women and girls but contempt , so it is time for you to face
your own demon and fears and tell you clearly true meaning
of what you are saying , It may still be true on you and
some Arabs today what Allah told us long time on the
behavior of Jahhili Arabs . Allah Said:
16-58 “And when the news of (the birth of) a female(child)
is brought to any of them , his face becomes dark, and he is
filled with inward grief!”
16-59 “He hides himself from the people because of the evil
of that whereof he has been informed. Shall he keep her
with dishonor or bury her in the earth? Certainly, evil is their
decision” Allah has spoken the Truth.
Reading what you wrote thus far , you think of women as
nothing but second grade Human handicapped by wild
passion for sex, and can’t control themselves or be
responsible for their own behavior , so must be put on strict
control by men , and if she goes out alone she sleeps with
any man she meets on her way,Brother Aw Daud face it, the
reason you like to control women is that you think and see
them as having unlimited sexual drive ,so if they are given
freedoms and rights would cause social chaos. I don’t
understand why you worry about Somali women after you
mutilated them to cut their sexual drive I wonder ..
Brother ;make No mistake about it Somali Women are not
asking today the right to learn , with no strings attached or
conditions , they passed that stage and no one can return
that back .
and let me tell you if our sisters are encouraged and achieve
their Allah given potential of knowledge and power that will
help us , and we will benefit from it.
>" This distinction between equality and sameness is of
>paramount importance.
>Equality is desirable, just, fair; but sameness is not.
>.....Had her status been identical with his, she would have
>been simply Duplicate of him, which she is not.
No one brought up in this forum such absurd argument;
it is you who is bringing and answering to himself to
confuse things.
>She is equal to man in the pursuit of education and
>knowledge (that fit her nature).
Knowledge is a Gender neutral!!
>"Historical records show that women participated in
public >with the early Muslims, especially in times of
emergencies. >Women used to company the Muslim
>armies engaged in battle to nurse the wounded, prepare
>supplies, serve the warriors and so on. (Furthermore,
>they’re allowed to be combative if enemy penetrate the
land
>of Islam).They were no shut behind iron bar or considered
Well said Daud , but do you understand what that means ,
Muslim women were pioneers in helping and comforting the
army and not sitting at home in the confines of Harem as
you are advocating now so today women should be in
Military and working with man in all aspects of live , and
equal opportunity for both men and women. We can’t
disadvantage and afford to exclude half of our working
force that is women..
>all measures to safeguard them
that is a coded word from you , to take from women her
Allah given right and freedoms. Aw Daud your rhetoric
words does not mean anything what count is your
disgusting conclusion and must be challenged .
I will complete this response in the second part
2-2 stay tuned .
J.J.Jama
Lib...@hotmail.com
> The only way one may avoid opposing veiws,
> send e-mail to yourself or don't post anything
> to here, especially, insults towards women and
> religion.
>
It is obvious to everyone how you and Ina Da'ud see or percieve Women and
relgion. That is for you trying to route back everthing to your personal
games. you lowering me down.
> > Brother bashir that is where I couldn't find you,
> > I have nothing but walaalnima(eventhough I don't
> > know you personally ,I still think you are somali)
> > when it comes to personal. But you are slowing down
> > the cause with your personal games.
>
> The only thing I'm trying to lessen is the insults towards
> women and religion, because the love I have for both of them. :)
Good! may be I am starting to effect you little bit. Love huh !the magic
word! I am loughing but it is not funny.when was the last time you ever
used or even thought about the word, love.
Even that you have tried to reduce my intentions into a personal games
but I have broken free of that circle and I am glad to see you growing up
little bit.
>
> > ceeb alla ha asturo
>
>
>
> Bashir.
bashir ali
Lib...@hotmail.com wrote:
> It is obvious to everyone how you and Ina
> Da'ud see or percieve Women and relgion.
I'm not the one who said a foolish
things about women and I'm not the
one who said Islamic system is a
foreign to the Somalis.
> That is for you trying to route back everthing to
> your personal games. you lowering me down.
I'm not trying to lower you, my brother, but
I'm trying to remind you the mistakes you made
in order that you would be mindful of what you
say the next time.
> Good! may be I am starting to effect you
> little bit. Love huh! the magic word!
It difficult for me to imagine that an insult
towards a Muslim lady in public can really
cause love and at the same time, have great
effect on others.
> I am loughing but it is not funny.
Do you know why it is not funny?
It is not funny, because meaningless
laughter is a sign of ill-attention
> when was the last time you ever used or
> even thought about the word, love.
I don't know.
> Even that you have tried to reduce my intentions
> into a personal games but I have broken free of that
> circle and I am glad to see you growing up little bit.
I hope we all grow up and learn from our mistakes.
Bashir.
Amina Mire
I see the brother, Ina daud, you would like to put limitation on the kinds
of knoledge a woman can attain:
Now, In a daud, or at least this is the name you hide behind:
The most difficult task a human must should master is abstract thinking
or thoerising. In the real world, take you as an example of a man and I,
Amina Mire that of a woman, you know it and the rest of the members of this
forum know it that you cannot measure up to my shadow; that with all your
Asaliaalkums and all you hajuuns and accusations, you do not
measure up to a woman! The fact is not because you are a man and
that I woman but because, I am more educated than you are. that
is the difference.
The fact you have certain biological structure which puts you a
category called male did not save you from being demolished by a
woman. the problem however, is not about the shoutings of idoits such as
Ina daud but those similar idiots who share his views who as I write
this note are refusing young girls from attending math and science
classes in all over Somalia. the same sick men are also bent in
marrrying under age girls whom they can be their grand fathers out of
the Islamic schools, the only schools they allow young girls to
attend. Here in Metro, many of them have married under age girls and
for the most part, they tell these young girls to declare themselves as single
mothers. It is growing and frightening trend in our Somali community
in Canada.
What we need to realize however is that if those who share the
poisonous views and twested ideology of people such an Ina daud gain
considerable political power, all shall pay the prize.
Finaly, Inda Daud, what are the kinds of information you can handle that,
let us say, Amina Mire, the woman who beat you in this form
mercilessly, cannot handle?.
p/s/ I thought to give you a break for the sake of Ramdan sharfteeda but
your views in this thread must be responded to.
Amina Mire
(abdi...@aol.com) wrote:
: > On Dec 10 1997, Lib...@hotmail.com wrote
J.J.Jama
This is the Second Part 2-2
I asked Daud
issue ,but clearly He doen,t not want women to work and
become financially independent and he wants them broke
desperate so he can abuse them and marry many of them and
dictate on them his wicked ways , He knows the First
employer or boss of the prophet PBUH was a Women , and
women are the most hard working species on the planet earth,
they do too many unpaid unappreciated work , they never
rest, and No women wants to go work for sake of going to
work and have fun with men but out of necessity and no other
choice especially when men derelict on their duty and can’t
fulfill their responsibility and mistreat women; leave wives
with many children , and not every women married or have
children their are singles with kids or without children ,
divorcee, widows, those who don’t want to marry , How we
can you deny them to earn Halal living .
>> Can she get involved In
>>Politics?
This Was his Answer
>If you mean can she be elected, the answer is no
Why ? that exposed all your empty words and deceptive and
coded phrases and deny women their Allah given rights and
freedoms . Women have proven through out History they
can lead and do good job. In Muslim world many counties
except those in middle east Arab women reached the
Highest position In Pakistan, Turkey , Bangaladesh, and
over 30% of judges and lawyers and doctors in Turkey are
women.
Asked
>>Get educated ?
He responded:
>Yes but not every education.
See how confused and scared you are , are you afraid
women will learn Nuclear Engineering and Nuke likes of
you, out the phase of the Earth; please tell me what
education Good for men and bad for women .
I asked
>and what is the highest position she
>can Hold?
Ina Daud Answered:
>According to the Xadith of Lan Yuflixuu Qawmahun
this Xadith that Daud is quoting is simply claiming that the
prophet said “ Women running the affair of any nation or
people is a recipe for disaster and failure “
Aw Daud you love such , fabricated Ahaadith , and it
common sense , that the prophet did say such cheap
statement , which does not make any sense what so ever ,
the reality is the men Alone were running the show in the
Muslim word and what good they have done , tell me , what
they going to loose by sharing power with women nothing it
is time to share with women to at least do better job. If
women rulers are recipe for disaster; Please for a moment
read very carefully this verses from the
Quran 27-23:-
“ I Found a women ruling Over them , and she has been
given all thing that could be possessed by any ruler of
the earth ,and she has a great Throne.”
That verse was about Queen Sheeba And she was Not Queen
by Name or title only but She was in full control in running
the affairs of the state and wise to seek advice and opinions
before deliberating to make her final decision read this Ayah
27-32 She said “O chiefs ! Advise me in (this) case of mine .
I decide no case till you are present with me”
27-33 They said “ We have great strength and great ability
for war , but it is for you to command : So think over what
you will command”
Do you Think She took the advice of all those men want , and
advocate , war and destruction , No she did not listen to them
and new the consequence of their was mongering , at the end
with no war or blood shed she said 27- 44 ….She Said My
Lord! Verily, I have wronged myself , and I submit (In Islam ,
together with solomon, to Allah, the Lord of the Alamin
(Mankind , Jinnis and all that exists).”
So what do think now of women rulers and Queens .
Daud , Instead of wasting your time in reading fabricated
Ahadith , man’s opinion read again and again Allah’s
Words with open heart and mind and see the difference the
ruling of a women and advice of a men, who does not know
except force and power and killing
>other adillah she is not allowed to leave her primary job
>and do man's job.
As if every Women , pregnant or taking care of children, or
have good and wealthy husband . your assumption is faulty .
I asked Him this Question and answered?
>>And can she Hold cabinet position or ministerial ?
this was his answer:
>Equally so, NO.
Why? Why? Why? Somali women have already proven they
can hold that position, Somali women was one time holding
the position of Minister of Higher Education and it is time
Somali men get out of the way and give a women a chance
to lead the country , what we have to loose.
>>I hope you will be very specific and direct.
>I hope I was.
Yes you were , and thank you very much for exposing
yourself .
Ina Daud Asked?
> For curiosity, what is your stand about your questions.
By this time you know my answer, for me Somali women
the sky is the limit , and as long as she is ready and has the
ability, and capacity to do any job adequately she can have
it. as Somali Women was disadvantaged for many years , it
will not be easy for them to take their position, sometime
soon, and change has started and no one can turn the wheels
of history back , and you will be left behind if women decide
to move to Venus.
J.J.Jama
Abdi Daud
>On Dec 16 1997, am...@chass.utoronto.ca (Amina Mire) wrote:
>
>I see the brother, Ina daud, you would like to put limitation on the kinds
>of knoledge a woman can attain:
Amina, please do not try to handle the kind of job in need a different
capacity. You're aljinis alladhiif if you know what I mean!!. Only this title
fit your capacity. Beyond that, you're putting yourself in the boot of man. And
thats what a pseudo-feminist whom their dismount swank was the world last
laughing in this century.
>Now, In a daud, or at least this is the name you hide behind:
Your systolic style is dying for credit. Waar Illayn innagaa balaayo aragnay.
Waar imminkana abtirkaygii miyaannu u soo xariiqnaa dumarkana!!. Ama ka daran
weeye arrintuye tirada reerkii ayaanuu u sheegna iyo halka geelayagu daaqu.
Intaantaay if you've legitimate case raise it with confidence intaad meelaha ku
meermeeraysid. Furthermore, your liking style also remembered me what Abuu
Tammaan has said it before:
"Mere forgery and conconet stories, not to be reckoned either firm rooted
mountian tree or even river-fringing willow.
"Marvels they alleged the days would reveal in (portentous), Safar or Rajab".
What a malice?.
>The most difficult task a human must should master is abstract thinking
>or thoerising.
Where you get this?!! I'm sure not from the Quran or sunnah.
>In the real world, take you as an example of a man and I,
>Amina Mire that of a woman, you know it and the rest of the >members of this
>forum know it that you cannot measure up to my shadow; that with all your
>Asaliaalkums and all you hajuuns and accusations, you do not
>measure up to a woman!
Hmmmm!! what a malign statistics?!!!. Because, you read too much pseudo- plato
philosophy?!!. Only self defeated feminist women who lost in touch the real
world dream such pure nonsenses. Otherwise, where on earth such respected
Somali women dare to utter such jargon language before the world. Moreover, I
hope you don't throw away the marwannimadii lagu yiqiin dumarka Soomaalida inta
dacwada xijaabka xataa gaadhin. Get a real life.
> The fact is not because you are a man and
>that I woman but because, I am more educated than you are. that
>is the difference.
Your real qualification is a feminhood that produce today and tommorrow muslim
leaders etc not a bogus leader that curtial the light of Islam. You
qualification is not to close the certified universal universatiy that you
were entrusted to keep it open. If you carry away of feminist the society will
lose more. And that makes your pseudo-Toronto qualification null and empty.
Don't walk beside man's world sister..
>The fact you have certain biological structure which puts you a
>category called male did not save you from being demolished by a
>woman.
I feel deep xayaa when I see I'm forced to debate with a cutty. If you don't
gulp with a bitterness what else?!. This kind of trash painting jet in large
from those who were subjucated the most devasting brainwashing in diaspora.
Huh!!. If you don't mind just dress like a man and have then fake beard to see
the color of the other world. What else you wait?.
>the problem however, is not about the shoutings of idoits such as
>Ina daud but those similar idiots who share his views who as I write
>this note are refusing young girls from attending math and science
>classes in all over Somalia.
Dear misguided angry women, cool down. I'm not surprising your insult on me
because of your true nature , but what make me more surprise is your constant
lack of fear of Allah when you make a blunt lie before this forum and lable a
large segment of our community as oppressors of their offsprings " girls"
because as you claim they're not allowing them to attend Math and science
classes.
Your anolagy remembered me when a women called Muraayad Garaad "Guddoomiyah
dumarka Soomaaliyeed" claimed that Xijaabka was a backword and Ikhwaan was
preventing the Somali women to make any progress in social/policitcal spheres..
>the same sick men are also bent in
>marrrying under age girls whom they can be their grand fathers out of
>the Islamic schools, the only schools they allow young girls to
>attend.
What kind of age are you talking about?!!!. Here in States the majority wise
is 18 years old and I think Canada is the same. Our Islam tells us all women
can be married as young as 15 or below if they get their period. No one is
forcing them to do that. But if they opto, so, what is wrong to do that since
Our Islam allows that.
Amina you're exposing more and more not only your feminist color but also you
ignorant about your religion. I hope you're not saying Somali moms got married
when they were thirty/forty years old?.
> Here in Metro, many of them have married under age girls and
>for the most part, they tell these young girls to declare themselves as
>single
>mothers. It is growing and frightening trend in our Somali community
>in Canada.
I doubt in Canada, a man can get marry as young as she claim it then the Child
protective service will not get a report from DSS or Hospitals. That doesn't
mean I do believe the merit of their system but to make the rebuttle of her
wild claim.
In any case, I do leave more comment on this segment the ducaad's in Canada to
challenge the claim of this women after exposing her true color in Canada
setting.
>What we need to realize however is that if those who share the
>poisonous views and twested ideology of people such an Ina daud gain
>considerable political power, all shall pay the prize.
Exactly, same as the foolish Secular in Egypt Dr Faraj Fowda cried the other
day before the westren media. You're the true copy of them.
Amina, if you want to be in political office in Somalia and negate your
responisiblity we will correct you in a proper manner. We will send you -Allah
willing- the rehabilitation facilies that you will learn the real Islam that
you negate during your long stay in abroad. Once you finish your refreshing
courses you will be allowed to do the kind of job you were created for. If you
dare to reject it then you will be another Taslima and hall fame is ready for
you if you do not pay dear..
Btw, your above statement implies that the Somali warlords are far better than
the Somali Islamist since they let you function as man not as women. I got
you!!.
>Finaly, Inda Daud, what are the kinds of information you can handle that,
>let us say, Amina Mire, the woman who beat you in this form
>mercilessly, cannot handle?.
??!!!!.
>p/s/ I thought to give you a break for the sake of Ramdan sharfteeda but
>your views in this thread must be responded to.
You don't know what is Ramadaan and what it stand for. If you know it you
wouldn't cry day in dayout to walk the shoes of men. Btw, keep your shoes tied.
I know it will not fit your feet forever. Morever, I hope you are not reading
from another Tucson center where axkaamu siyaam is the least thing to know
about it.
Final note:
Since the nature of Somali men was not to quarell with a women that kind of
tradition has gone as long as we observe the ethic of good debate. This women
is carrying a venom and verus and someone should be in lurking place for her
leftist/feminist agenda before she inoculate the idea of innocent women. Over
the past years she got a free ride in this medium talking anything while
reality is she lacks a real qualification. The dawn of truth had began and her
free ride should come to an end. Either she should adjust with this envirnomnet
with more responsibilty toward her religion or accept with little disdain the
filthy Hegel/Plato cultures that she is drowining it.
This is a part of alamru bilmacruuf wannahyi canil munkar effore nothing in
personal..
Ina Da'ud
>Amina Mire
>
>
>
M. A. mohamoud(Gabanow)
Aamina Mire anigu ma arag cilmiga aad ku faanaysid, Soomaaliduna waxay
tiraahdaa "QOF IS FAANSHAY WAA RI' IS NUUGTAY" waxaanse hadalkaaga ka
gartay in aad tahay qof taqaana luqada ingirrisiga, lagana yaabo in lagu
soo baray
sida hablaha soomaaliyeed aad Gaalo gacanta ugu galin lahayd, una soo
bandhigi
lahayd ceebo aan sal lahayn, si aad magaca Soomaaliyeed ee wanaagsan
dhiiqada ugu jiidid.
Soomaalidu diin iyo dhaqan bay leedahay, diintii baad waxaad dhaafsanaysaa
dhaqan Gaalo oo laga yaabo tobban sanno ka hor in ay kuugu horaysay, qofkii
raba in uu walaalihiisa muslinka ah u nasteexeeyo waad aflo gaadayn, waxaad
ka
shaqaynaysaa sidii gabdhaha soomaaliyeed intay is qaawiyaan oo baararka
qamriga tagaan, halkaasna diintooda ku seegaaan, markaasna kuwa aad u
shaqaysaa dhahaan gabdhahaani cilmi bay leeyihiin, siday markii horeba
adiga kugu
soo xiro galiyeen.
aan ku xasuusiyo in cilmi la barto uu ugu wanaagsan yahay cilmiga diinta
Islamku, adduunakaana aan lagu waarayn, Allahna uu xisaabinayo wax walba oo
aad samaysid, sida tusaale ahaan aad qortid wax aad diinta Islamka ee
sharafta leh ku duraysid, aad mirin habaabisid hablaha muslimka ah iyo
waxii la mida.
waxaan kale oo kugula talin lahaa in aad iska deysid nacaybka faraha badan
ee aad
raga Soomaaliyeed oo dhan u haysid, haddii hal nin aad is qabateen raga oo
dhami ma xumee, nacayb sidiisaba adiga uun buu ku burburin ugu dambayn.
NABAD GELYO.
MOHAMED MOHAMOUD
Amina Mire <am...@chass.utoronto.ca> wrote in article
<676brv$c...@chass.utoronto.ca>...
J.J.Jama
"M. A. mohamoud(Gabanow)" <moh...@cyberus.ca> wrote:
>Aamina Mire anigu ma arag cilmiga aad ku faanaysid, Soomaaliduna waxay
>tiraahdaa "QOF IS FAANSHAY WAA RI' IS NUUGTAY"
Somalida waxa kale oo ay ku maah maahdaa " Hadii lagu sheego
isa sheel(isqari), Haddii lagu Sheelana(Qariyo)
isa Sheeg", Midda kale kuwa Aqoonta leh iyo kuwa aan lahayn
miyeey Simman yihiin??
J.J.Jama
Abdi Daud
Thank's Allah that you expose your true color before the world. You can
insult, deny the sunnah and advocate/sing the feminist agenda or do live under
constant fear of real Islam while distorting and lying the direction of the
Quranic versus.
Stay tune to see more Al-sawaaqic Al-mursalah calal alcaqlaaniyah wan munkirii
alsunnah that hide under the tenent of Islam for their convienant.
If we don't challenge your deception and distortion then as Ibnu Alrumi has
said:
"What excuse shall we have to offer, what response to give, when we are
summoned over the heads of mankind?"
"O My Servents, were you not angry on My behalf, on behalf of Me, the Majestic,
the Splendid?".
Ina Da'ud
Abdirashid A Hussein
>>On Dec 16 1997, "J.J.Jama" <ja...@inforamp.net> wrote:
Dear J.J.
>
>>By this time you know my answer, for me Somali women
>>the sky is the limit , and as long as she is ready and has the
>>ability, and capacity to do any job adequately she can have
>>it. as Somali Women was disadvantaged for many years , it
>>will not be easy for them to take their position, sometime
>>soon, and change has started and no one can turn the wheels
>>of history back , and you will be left behind if women decide
>>to move to Venus.
>> J.J.Jama
>
>
The sky has been and will always be the limit for Somali sisters. However,
your assertion that 'Somali women were disadvantaged for many years'
rather strikes me as naive, wishy-washy nostalgia of an actualized Somali
society in the past, to speak in freudian terms. FYI, Somali society, whether in
the past or in the present has its own shortcomings that is
disadvantageous to not only men but also women.
You had better looked at the society in toto rather picking parts of it to
justify your erroneous hypothesis.
Abdirashid.
--
Amina Mire
Dear brothers and sisters:
there are certain charactersitics which are common certain angry
brothers here but also those with angry faces who refuse young Somali
girls for full education because of what they take to be essential
incapcity of women with respect to men. First, all their hate and
attacks are aways projected to elsewhere. That is, they often do not
admit shortcomings and when you try to reason with them, they seek to
find collaborating verse, from the Quran or Hadith rather than seeing
their misuse of the Quran and the Hadith. Second, many of them hate
the humanities and prefere technical fields. That is, they often hate
those areas of learning which forces them to emply critical thinking which
will of course forces them to crical examine their conducts well as taking
history seriously. Third, their fear is often motived by fear from a
supposed enemy from within and from without. Hence they are always in
a state of perpetual war. This trait is common to all those who are
under unreflective ideological spill. The particular fantics I have in
mind use islam but very few really understand islam not just as
partical values but as system of thought which covers, all that is
progressive in the world. They forget that the world, the modern world
that is was brought about by muslim civization which at its peak had the
power to conquer weaker, less sophisticate civilizations. They see, today
that western countries who, of course, hate islam and seek to deny that
islam ever contributed to human progress, are nevertheless
technologically and economically more powerful than all of the muslim
world. In response, these fantics vehemently denounce the west while
pasively admiring the west by learning their technologizes and by using
them pasively. they rearly take initiative to appropriate these
technologies, subvert them so to make these technologies meet the
needs of muslim people. They often cannot think the need for such
subervsaion. In Somalia and else where, they are in love with anything
hightech, but lost their capcity for craftsmenship. All their
actions hence only facilitates the western domination of the muslim
people throughout the world. Because of their antigonistic thinking ,
they often do not seek to make friends or learn from other oppressed
peoples who are not necessarily muslim, to see how such peoples
survive and manange to keep their communities together under the thumb
of the oppressors. these people, are not arisons, or dig the land to
grow fruits for the people. they are often in love with IMB computers,
the Internet and the AK47. These people, hate women who are assertive
but adore those who are passive and meak. These are manice and they are
really the enemy of islam and the people. The Eurpean/American
imperialists love these people because they already know these are
harmless fools. The working men and women, those who go out to reclaim the
land and the society and who are focused on the material improvement
of the people are the realy enemy of the imperialist forces and not the
fanantics. The reason is because the imperialist forces want the land and
its resources for themselves.
But if oppressed societies gain a level of consciousness to mobilize
its forces including that of women for the betterment of its people,
then imperialist forces will not be able to gain easy access to the land
and its resources. the fantics on the other hands are stupids who are
at the stage of the libido. They are more worried about women's looks and
what she wears than whether the people are hungery or fed.
This is the tragic phenomenon which is wrecking a havoc in many Muslim
societies today. The fanatics are really agents of imperialsts not
because they were sent by the imperialist forces but because in their hateful
twested minds they pasively consume the technology, the way of doing
things of the oppressers they claim to be against!
Sincerely,
Amina Mire
}T/
Abdi Daud (abdi...@aol.com) wrote:
: What a malice?.
:
: Final note:
:
: Ina Da'ud
: >Amina Mire
: >
: >
: >
Abdi Daud
>Dear brothers and sisters:
Dear Fiqi Buraale Amina:
What a lefitist/feminist long speech?!!. I'm glad your pseudo-qualication has
come to an end. Stay tune to see if the your Yaa cummaalal calaam itixiduu
didda al imparyaaliyah works here while wearing the male boot.
Ina Da'ud
Abdi Daud
>On Dec 20 1997, moh...@cyberus.ca writes:
>war adiguna maxaa ahayd, "Feminist" mise dameeri dhaan raacday, isa sheeg.
Dear Mohamed,
This man, he is not only advocates for the feminst agenda but also deny the
very founded belief among Ahlu-sunnah: Accepting axaadis alsaxiixayn rather the
sunnah. He is a true copy of Abiib when it comes the sunnah but he dislike to
be called that name rather he chooses Hadith's accoding to his convienant. See
his lastest response to this thread when he was caught red handed. Allahuma
ihidihi.
Ina Da'ud
J.J.Jama
moh...@cyberus.ca (Mohamed Mohamoud) wrote:
>war adiguna maxaa ahayd, "Feminist" mise dameeri dhaan raacday, isa sheeg.
War adiga Haddi Aadan ahayn dameri dhaan raacday tii ugu
xumeays iskana hadaaqeen , ma garanaysaa macnaha Feminist, mase
noo sheegi kartaa,? mise ayada oo la leeyahay ayaad maqashay,
iskana tiri.
J.J.Jama
>In article <679ub0$m...@news.inforamp.net>, ja...@inforamp.net says...
>>
>>"M. A. mohamoud(Gabanow)" <moh...@cyberus.ca> wrote:
>>>Aamina Mire anigu ma arag cilmiga aad ku faanaysid, Soomaaliduna waxay
>>>tiraahdaa "QOF IS FAANSHAY WAA RI' IS NUUGTAY"
>>
>>
Mohamed Mohamoud
war adiguna maxaa ahayd, "Feminist" mise dameeri dhaan raacday, isa sheeg.
In article <679ub0$m...@news.inforamp.net>, ja...@inforamp.net says...
>
>"M. A. mohamoud(Gabanow)" <moh...@cyberus.ca> wrote:
>>Aamina Mire anigu ma arag cilmiga aad ku faanaysid, Soomaaliduna waxay
>>tiraahdaa "QOF IS FAANSHAY WAA RI' IS NUUGTAY"
>
>
J.J.Jama
From: ahus...@osf1.gmu.edu (Abdirashid A Hussein)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.somalia
Subject: Re: The Status of Women in Islam Part2 -2
Date: 18 Dec 1997 17:09:56 GMT
>>On Dec 16 1997, "J.J.Jama" <ja...@inforamp.net>
wrote:
Dear J.J.
>The sky has been and will always be the limit for Somali
>sisters.
Dear Abdirshid :
I hope you are right , but it is clear to me you are in denial
or talking about different Somali women , Are you saying
our Somali society treats boys and girls equally and they
have equal opportunity .
>FYI, Somali society, whether in
>the past or in the present has its own shortcomings that is
>disadvantageous to not only men but also women.
>You had better looked at the society in toto rather picking
>parts of it to justify your erroneous hypothesis.
It hard for me to follow your logic , if all Somali men and
women are disadvantaged, are they not all equal and same
as None was disadvantaged , I can agree with you if you
meant other groups and sections, tribes of our society are
disadvantaged too, not only women .
To look the ills of our society in total that was not the scope
of the discussion, we are just talking only women.
J.J.Jama
J.J.Jama
From: abdi...@aol.com (Abdi Daud)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.somalia
Subject: Re: The Status of Women in Islam
>>I see the brother, Ina daud, you would like to put
limitation on the kinds
>>of knoledge a woman can attain:
>Amina, please do not try to handle the kind of job in need
a different
>capacity. You're aljinis alladhiif if you know what I mean!!.
Brother , Your statement above Not only a chauvinist
sexist ,but it has got sexual over tone in it , when you add
the two words Al-jinsi(sex), Al-ladhiif(soft), in Arabic you
use to point that women are only sexual objects, and I am
not sure what kind of coded message are you sending to the
sister now ,when , all your nasty private E-mails failed.
Brother Daud, Stop this campaign of deception and denial
and Hiding behind religion, and face the truth , Can you
handle the truth ? The truth every one in this forum knows,
you can’t handle the truth ! as you failed to handle
rejection.
J.J.Jama
Abdi Daud
>Subject: Re: The Status of Women in Islam Part1 -2
>From: "J.J.Jama" <ja...@inforamp.net>
>Date: Sun, Dec 14, 1997 08:02 EST
>Message-id: <670lcl$4...@news.inforamp.net>
>Date: 10 Dec 1997 07:14:11 GMT
>
>>Yeah I do and listen this carefully Aw Jamac.
>>the fact that women is, at least, as
>>vital to life as man himself,……
>>The status of women was taken for granted to be equal to
>>that of man. It was a
>>"The rights and responsibilities of a women are equal to
>>those of a man but
>
>Dear Brother Aw Daud:
>I was not surprised , the response you gave Here, it was
>expected from self appointed One man committee against
>vice and lewd conduct in this forum ,
Aw Jama, in doing amr bilmacruuf wannahyi canil munkar does not require us to
hold a secret ballot. If you do suggest such things I think you will be the
only who cast the ballot for that end.
but what surprise me
>how confused you are; or trying to confuse us, and wishy
>washy , and you have no idea what you are saying , and
>trying to take in this forum free and fast trip of misleading;
>deception , saying something and contradicting it; and
>concluding with some thing else such a scam can only work
>if the are no rebuttals or scrutiny .
Only those whom their world is limited to falsify the sunnah and history
suggest such things. Morever, attack the opponent when they fail to comprehend
the real foundation of islam.
Aw Jamac there is no deception or contradiction here. Your rebuttle as you wish
to call it as we're in OJ case was hollow that fail to hold single drop of
water as it comes below.
>Aw Daud Although , the heavy guns and long range
>missiles of this form are silent , Trouble for you if they are
>activated.
This kind of bullying has nothing do intellecutal discussion let alone the good
tradion that we observe in genral??!! May be you mean your freind Abib who was
more forthcoming that your shilly-shally when he denied the sunnah openly.
>Aw Daud : I am Glad here , you are exposing and showing
>us your true colors , intentions
I'm glad too that my true color is Islam that you negates its fact because of
running behind outdated notion that has no relation in Islam.
and you have nothing for
>women and girls but contempt ,
What a lie? Is this is what you had learned from the west during your stay in
diaspora. I've for my dear muslim women what Allah has given them in Islam.
It's you and likes who uses westren pretenses to take away muslim women what
Allah gave them
>so it is time for you to face
>your own demon and fears and tell you clearly true meaning
>of what you are saying , It may still be true on you and
>some Arabs today what Allah told us long time on the
>behavior of Jahhili Arabs
Aw Jama I really laugh deeply (with pity) when I see you storm the stage to
give the Qasim Amin khutba and grab from here and there verses from the Quran
to force these verses to fit your demon agenda. As misguided leftist caqlaani
who lost in touch the spirit Islam your agenda grafting is crying for credit
and real inferences from the Islam.
. Allah Said:
>
>16-58 “And when the news of (the birth of) a female(child)
>is brought to any of them , his face becomes dark, and he is
>filled with inward grief!”
>16-59 “He hides himself from the people because of the evil
>of that whereof he has been informed. Shall he keep her
>with dishonor or bury her in the earth? Certainly, evil is their
>decision” Allah has spoken the Truth.
I agree but it didn't fit your ill mission here, huh. Its involution.
>Reading what you wrote thus far , you think of women as
>nothing but second grade Human handicapped by wild
>passion for sex, and can’t control themselves or be
>responsible for their own behavior , so must be put on strict
>control by men , and if she goes out alone she sleeps with
>any man she meets on her way,
Unless you like to lie to the end where on earth I said such nonseness. My
record speaks loud and clear. Stick on issues.
Brother Aw Daud face it, the
>reason you like to control women is that you think and see
>them as having unlimited sexual drive ,so if they are given
>freedoms and rights would cause social chaos.
Without responding again about your blantant lie here, Aw Jama, if you think
the sexual revolution that took the cultural makeup in American and the west at
large in 50's was not the kind of freedom you're singing alone then you're
reading another Tucson Center. Otherwise, you know and deny at the same time
what kind of rights and freedom Islam has given the women.
I don’t
>understand why you worry about Somali women after you
>mutilated them to cut their sexual drive I wonder ..
We, the Somali Islamist fought hard to stop the Phroah tradition and today the
only genaration that grow out of this culture is our childern. I can say in
confidence, Somali women has flourished and empowered to stop this dreadful
tradtion only when they understood Islam that you've difficulty to absorb it as
its fact . So why you lie Aw Jama.
continue........
those
Abdi Daud
>ubject: Re: The Status of Women in Islam Part1 -2
>Date: Sat, Dec 20, 1997 22:16 EST
>Message-id: <19971221031...@ladder02.news.aol.com>
>
>>Subject: Re: The Status of Women in Islam Part1 -2
>>From: "J.J.Jama" <ja...@inforamp.net>
>>Date: Sun, Dec 14, 1997 08:02 EST
>>Message-id: <670lcl$4...@news.inforamp.net>
>>
>>From: abdi...@aol.com (Abdi Daud)
>>Newsgroups: soc.culture.somalia
>>Subject: The Status of Women in Islam
>>Date: 10 Dec 1997 07:14:11 GMT
>>
>>>Yeah I do and listen this carefully Aw Jamac.
>>>the fact that women is, at least, as
>>>vital to life as man himself,……
>>>The status of women was taken for granted to be equal to
>>>that of man. It was a
>>>"The rights and responsibilities of a women are equal to
>>>those of a man but
>>
>>Dear Brother Aw Daud:
>>I was not surprised , the response you gave Here, it was
>>expected from self appointed One man committee against
>>vice and lewd conduct in this forum ,
>
>Aw Jama, in doing amr bilmacruuf wannahyi canil munkar does not require us to
>hold a secret ballot. If you do suggest such things I think you will be the
>
> but what surprise me
>>how confused you are; or trying to confuse us, and wishy
>>washy , and you have no idea what you are saying , and
>>trying to take in this forum free and fast trip of misleading;
>>deception , saying something and contradicting it; and
>>concluding with some thing else such a scam can only work
>>if the are no rebuttals or scrutiny .
>
>Only those whom their world is limited to falsify the sunnah and history
>suggest such things. Morever, attack the opponent when they fail to
>comprehend
>the real foundation of islam.
>
>Aw Jamac there is no deception or contradiction here. Your rebuttle as you
>wish
>to call it as we're in OJ case was hollow that fail to hold single drop of
>water as it comes below.
>
>>Aw Daud Although , the heavy guns and long range
>>missiles of this form are silent , Trouble for you if they are
>>activated.
>
>This kind of bullying has nothing do intellecutal discussion let alone the
>good
>was
>more forthcoming than your shilly-shally when he denied the sunnah openly.
>
>
>>Aw Daud : I am Glad here , you are exposing and showing
>>us your true colors , intentions
>
>I'm glad too that my true color is Islam that you negates its fact because of
>running behind outdated notion that has no relation in Islam.
>
> and you have nothing for
>>women and girls but contempt ,
>
>What a lie? Is this is what you had learned from the west during your stay in
>diaspora. I've for my dear muslim women what Allah has given them in Islam.
>It's you and likes who uses westren pretenses to take away muslim women what
>Allah gave them
>
>
>>so it is time for you to face
>>your own demon and fears and tell you clearly true meaning
>>of what you are saying , It may still be true on you and
>>some Arabs today what Allah told us long time on the
>>behavior of Jahhili Arabs
>
>
>Aw Jama I really laugh deeply (with pity) when I see you storm the stage to
>give the Qasim Amin khutba and grab from here and there verses from the Quran
>who lost in touch the spirit of Islam your agenda grafting is crying for
credit
>and real inferences from the Islam.
>
>. Allah Said:
>>
>>16-58 “And when the news of (the birth of) a female(child)
>>is brought to any of them , his face becomes dark, and he is
>>filled with inward grief!”
>>16-59 “He hides himself from the people because of the evil
>>of that whereof he has been informed. Shall he keep her
>>with dishonor or bury her in the earth? Certainly, evil is their
>>decision” Allah has spoken the Truth.
>
>
>>Reading what you wrote thus far , you think of women as
>>nothing but second grade Human handicapped by wild
>>passion for sex, and can’t control themselves or be
>>responsible for their own behavior , so must be put on strict
>>control by men , and if she goes out alone she sleeps with
>>any man she meets on her way,
>
>
>Unless you like to lie to the end where on earth I said such nonseness. My
she is like a hilib bisil susceptable to be victimized of womenized bullies
who knows halaal the xuduudullaahil little. Its part of our daily life to see
the wild foxs roam in our streets/neighbourhoods and shows filthy lust behind
womens with avidness.
>Brother Aw Daud face it, the
>>reason you like to control women is that you think and see
>>them as having unlimited sexual drive ,so if they are given
>>freedoms and rights would cause social chaos.
>
>the sexual revolution that took the cultural makeup in American and the west
>at
>large in 50's was not the kind of freedom you're singing alone then you're
>reading another Tucson Center. Otherwise, you know and deny at the same time
>what kind of rights and freedom Islam has given the women.
>
>
> I don’t
>>understand why you worry about Somali women after you
>>mutilated them to cut their sexual drive I wonder ..
>
>the
>only genaration that grow out of this culture is our childern. I can say in
>confidence, Somali women has flourished and empowered to stop this dreadful
>tradtion only when they understood Islam that you've difficulty to absorb it
>
>
>
>
> those
>>Brother ;make No mistake about it Somali Women are not
>>asking today the right to learn , with no strings attached or
>>conditions , they passed that stage and no one can return
>>that back .
What a short memory?. Aren't we were debating the status of women in Islam.
About the condition that you afraid it, it will stay it as long as their
capacity of doing such job's required different musculars. I don't know whether
the Somali secular will get a new generic bank that will lend them the male
musculars that they want to attach the feminhood settings.
>>and let me tell you if our sisters are encouraged and achieve
>>their Allah given potential of knowledge and power that will
>>help us , and we will benefit from it.
If this is not redundant what else.The Arab Seculars was calling such things
but with different agenda. And you're doing the same. Otherwise, we know
already what is your ill intention.
>>>" This distinction between equality and sameness is of
>>>paramount importance.
>>>Equality is desirable, just, fair; but sameness is not.
>>>.....Had her status been identical with his, she would have
>>>been simply Duplicate of him, which she is not.
>>
>>No one brought up in this forum such absurd argument;
>>it is you who is bringing and answering to himself to
>>confuse things.
First of all, the above statement that I qouted ther is the words of the well
known muslim scholar that was proven his knowledge in the west as well as in
the Islamic World. If you think its absurd then needless to say your're walking
on the shoes of others with ignorant
>>>She is equal to man in the pursuit of education and
>>>knowledge (that fit her nature).
>>Knowledge is a Gender neutral!!
But you believe the women has a full capacity to do the man's job, huh!!.
>> >"Historical records show that women participated in
>>public >with the early Muslims, especially in times of
>>emergencies. >Women used to company the Muslim
>>>armies engaged in battle to nurse the wounded, prepare
>>>supplies, serve the warriors and so on. (Furthermore,
>>>they’re allowed to be combative if enemy penetrate the
>>land
>>>of Islam).They were no shut behind iron bar or considered
>>
>>Well said Daud , but do you understand what that means ,
>>Muslim women were pioneers in helping and comforting the
>>army and not sitting at home in the confines of Harem as
>>you are advocating now so today women should be in
>>Military and working with man in all aspects of live , and
>>equal opportunity for both men and women. We can’t
>>disadvantage and afford to exclude half of our working
>>force that is women..
The primary job of women is in home, to raise the healthy family. This is where
the nation die to it. If an adversary happen on the nation then she can
participate as an acceptional not a rule. Equally so, in the social setting she
can do all jobs that she can biologically handle it be nurses, teaching if the
Islamic evirnoment is observed strictly and not contradict the primary job that
was entrusted her..
Today, American has began to feel the equal opportunity slogan for both sexes
was a hoax. This claim only fantises the feeble minded folks that don't red
the history with lesson. We all know when the media and the academic circles
glamourized in 50's the working families that both two adults have full times
what was the result?!!. The recent Pentegon announcement for segregating the
uniform male and female in it's schools is the iceberg of long over due journey
that America and its satelites negates for long long time toward recognizing
some of the women's world.
>>>all measures to safeguard them
>>
>>that is a coded word from you , to take from women her
>>Allah given right and freedoms. Aw Daud your rhetoric
>>words does not mean anything what count is your
>>disgusting conclusion and must be challenged .
>> I will complete this response in the second part
>>2-2 stay tuned .
>>J.J.Jama
Aw Jama, you have no case under the sky just for unsubstantiated claims that
cry for truth. Any way let me see what you've in your next tedium posting!
Ina Da'ud
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Abdi Daud
>Subject: Re: The Status of Women in Islam Part2 -2
>From: "J.J.Jama" <ja...@inforamp.net>
>Date: Tue, Dec 16, 1997 22:03 EST
>Message-id: <677fe9$a...@news.inforamp.net>
>
>This is the Second Part 2-2
>I asked Daud
>>>Can she work and earn a living ?
>He did Not Answer, clearly he is avoiding and ducking the
>issue ,but clearly He doen,t not want women to work and
>become financially independent and he wants them broke
>desperate so he can abuse them and marry many of them and
>dictate on them his wicked ways , He knows the First
>employer or boss of the prophet PBUH was a Women , and
>women are the most hard working species on the planet earth,
>they do too many unpaid unappreciated work , they never
>rest, and No women wants to go work for sake of going to
>work and have fun with men but out of necessity and no other
>choice especially when men derelict on their duty and can’t
>fulfill their responsibility and mistreat women; leave wives
>with many children , and not every women married or have
>children their are singles with kids or without children ,
>divorcee, widows, those who don’t want to marry , How we
>can you deny them to earn Halal living .
First of all, Jama you like to puddle with dirty misinformation. Where on earth
you get such pure nonesenses. I don't know why like to be mudslinger. Without
doubt I missed to answer such question without intention although I did address
it through my posting. I know you have a very selective memory!!. Enjoy it.
Coming back to the ecomomic aspect, I would like to qoute to what Dr Jamal
Badawi, a distinquish Islamic scholar has said about such querry in a very
elqouent way:
"Islam decreed a right of which women was deprived both before Islam and after
it (even as late as this century), the right of independent ownership.
According to Islamic law, women's right her money, real estate, or other
properties is fully acknowledged. This right undergoes no change whether she is
single or married. She retains her full rights to buy, sell, mortgage or lease
any or all her properties. It is nowhere suggested in the Law that a women is a
minor simply because she is female.It is also noteworthy that such right
applies to her properties before marriage as well as to whatever she acquires
thereafter.
With regard to the women's right to seek employment it should be stated first
that Islam regards her role in society as mother and a wife the most sacred and
essential one. Neither maids nor babysitters (nor daycares) can possibly take
the mother's place as the educator of an upright, complex-free, and
carefully-reared children. Such a noble and vital role, which largely shapes
the future of nations cannot be regarded as "idleness"( as you and this
feminist Amina Mire cry day in dayout).
However, there is no degree in Islam which forbids women from seeking
employment whenever there is a necessity for it, especially in positions which
fit her nature and in which society needs her most. Examples of these
professions are nursing, teacking especially for children, and medicine...."
>>> Can she get involved In
>>>Politics?
>This Was his Answer
>>If you mean can she be elected, the answer is no
>
>Why ? that exposed all your empty words and deceptive and
>coded phrases and deny women their Allah given rights and
>freedoms .
Pure lie and nonsenses
> Women have proven through out History they
>can lead and do good job.
What is this proven History?. Empty claim!! unless you mean Margeret Thatcher
or Goldan Maier?!!
> In Muslim world many counties
>except those in middle east Arab women reached the
>Highest position In Pakistan, Turkey , Bangaladesh, and
>over 30% of judges and lawyers and doctors in Turkey are
>women.
So you justify as authentic dalill the action of brainwashed facless group that
west brought to power when they put real muslims leaders behind bars. Poor
Jama.
>Asked
>>>Get educated ?
>He responded:
>>Yes but not every education.
>See how confused and scared you are , are you afraid
>women will learn Nuclear Engineering and Nuke likes of
>you, out the phase of the Earth; please tell me what
>education Good for men and bad for women .
Jama, If you don't sing blindly with feminist agenda, the role of women is
defined as above, the kind of education they're ready to handle it will be
determined by their biological capacity.
I know when the 70's American feminist was singing your song in all over
streets of America and all over sudden when the bitter began to rain they were
selective in many ways while hiding the slogan of anti-discrimintation. Keep
singing and put women's the construction job's for instances.
>I asked
>>and what is the highest position she
>>can Hold?
>Ina Daud Answered:
>>According to the Xadith of Lan Yuflixa Qawmun...
>this Xadith that Daud is quoting is simply claiming that the
>prophet said “ Women running the affair of any nation or
>people is a recipe for disaster and failure “
>Aw Daud you love such , fabricated Ahaadith , and it
>common sense , that the prophet did say such cheap
>statement , which does not make any sense what so ever ,
>the reality is the men Alone were running the show in the
>Muslim word and what good they have done ,
Jama, you got a free in this medium for long long time while hiding your true
color of anti-sunnah. This is a challenge as I asked before: prove it how do
you nullify this hadith. On what basis?!!. By cilmi alxadiith riwaayatan wa
diraayatan or by your perception that your fail to process it.
I hold this prophet saying dear . Morever, this is what Jamal Badawi has said
about this issue:
Refering the above Hadith he said:
"This limitation, however, has nothing to do with the dignity of women or with
her rights. It is rather, related to the natural differences in the biological
and psychological make-up of men and women.
According to Islam, the head of the state is no mere figureheaded. He leads
people in the prayers, especially on Fridays and festivities; he is continuosly
engaged in the process of decision-making pertaining to the security and
well-being of his people. This demanding position, or any similar one, such as
the commander of the army, is generally inconsistant with the physiological and
psychological make-up of women in general. It is a medical fact that during
their monthly periods and during their pregnancies, women undergo various
physiological and psychological changes. Such changes may occur during an
emergency situation, thus affecting her decision, without condering the
excessive strain which is produced. Moreover, some decisions require a maxiumum
of rationality and a minimum of emotionality -a requirement which does not
coincide with the instinctive nature of women". See the status of women in
Islam P.24.
. tell me , what
>they going to loose by sharing power with women nothing it
>is time to share with women to at least do better job.
This is pure nonesense!!. Share with Amina Mire a power then we see what kind
of world we've!!.
> If
>women rulers are recipe for disaster; Please for a moment
>read very carefully this verses from the
>Quran 27-23:-
>“ I Found a women ruling Over them , and she has been
>given all thing that could be possessed by any ruler of
>the earth ,and she has a great Throne.”
>That verse was about Queen Sheeba And she was Not Queen
>by Name or title only but She was in full control in running
>the affairs of the state and wise to seek advice and opinions
>before deliberating to make her final decision read this Ayah
Since this is sharcu man qablanaa it has nothing to do enact as law to us. We
can read it and get the lesson and ajar not as law in our political/social
life. Once she become muslim did she stay on the Throne as Queen "in full
control in running the affairs of the state". The answer is no.
It is not too late Jama to learn axkaamu altashriic in Islam to see the full
picture of Islam.
>27-32 She said “O chiefs ! Advise me in (this) case of mine .
>I decide no case till you are present with me”
>27-33 They said “ We have great strength and great ability
>for war , but it is for you to command : So think over what
>you will command”
>Do you Think She took the advice of all those men want , and
>advocate , war and destruction , No she did not listen to them
>and new the consequence of their was mongering , at the end
>with no war or blood shed she said 27- 44 ….She Said My
>Lord! Verily, I have wronged myself , and I submit (In Islam ,
>together with solomon, to Allah, the Lord of the Alamin
>(Mankind , Jinnis and all that exists).”
>So what do think now of women rulers and Queens .
Most of the time you operate under your own tenet not the tenent of Islam. Just
read what culimaa altafsiir/Usuul has said about these verses. Unless you're
the true copy of Abib you should check out the axkaamul Islam before posting
any verses in this medium
>Daud , Instead of wasting your time in reading fabricated
>Ahadith , man’s opinion read again and again Allah’s
>Words with open heart and mind and see the difference the
>ruling of a women and advice of a men, who does not know
>except force and power and killing
This is the slogan of Abib. Hadaahullaahu. And you join the march. Jama I read
Quran and I hold dear. And the Quran orders muslims to revert to the sunnah as
Allah said " And remind for verily, the reminding profits the belivers" 51:55
It's part of Islam. We will debate this topic more and more.
>>other adillah she is not allowed to leave her primary job
>>and do man's job.
>As if every Women , pregnant or taking care of children, or
>have good and wealthy husband . your assumption is faulty .
I'm not assuming anything here. I stated the primary job of women what would be
as real explains. Otherwise, If anything happen to the women its allowed her to
work with her capacity as Dr Jamal Badawi mentioned above.
>I asked Him this Question and answered?
>>>And can she Hold cabinet position or ministerial ?
>this was his answer:
>>Equally so, NO.
>Why? Why? Why? Somali women have already proven they
>can hold that position,
May be they've proven in your setting only!!
> Somali women was one time holding
>the position of Minister of Higher Education
Aaaah.... What a sham.....Tell us the profile of that women Jama!!.
> and it is time
>Somali men get out of the way and give a women a chance
>to lead the country , what we have to loose.
We will loose many many things if you care about. But for pure curiosity what
kind of dress and shoes you want to dress up our dear moms/sisters to fit your
psuedo profiles!!!.
>>>I hope you will be very specific and direct.
>
>>I hope I was.
>Yes you were , and thank you very much for exposing
>yourself .
You too.
>Ina Daud Asked?
>> For curiosity, what is your stand about your questions.
>
>By this time you know my answer, for me Somali women
>the sky is the limit , and as long as she is ready and has the
>ability, and capacity to do any job adequately she can have
>it. as Somali Women was disadvantaged for many years , it
>will not be easy for them to take their position, sometime
>soon, and change has started and no one can turn the wheels
>of history back , and you will be left behind if women decide
>to move to Venus.
> J.J.Jama
>
Capacity, ability, readiness !!!!What is that?!!. Let have courage and set up a
booth in North American to solicit the next female president of Somalia. Only
real Islam can take off the cloud of this disadvantagous position they're in.
They were denied their role in the society as teachers of the greatest
university on the earth. They dressed up like a male and they took their
advantage.They pushed in the office places to be their sex maid. They were told
to dress/ walk and speak as man enjoy it. This is what Jama calls sky limit.
Jama, I assure you we will not let you meddle the Somali women affairs since
you carry this feminist agenda knowingly. Have that in your mind and our
promise is not here, it is Somalia
Untill then learn real Islam.
Ina Da'ud
Abdi Daud
>On Dec 20 1997, "J.J.Jama" <ja...@inforamp.net> wrote:
>
>From: abdi...@aol.com (Abdi Daud)
>Newsgroups: soc.culture.somalia
>Subject: Re: The Status of Women in Islam
>Date: 17 Dec 1997 09:19:26 GMT
>>>On Dec 16 1997, am...@chass.utoronto.ca (Amina
>Mire) wrote:
>
>
>>>I see the brother, Ina daud, you would like to put
>limitation on the kinds of knoledge a woman can attain:
>
>
>
>
>>Amina, please do not try to handle the kind of job in need
>a different
>
>>capacity. You're aljinis alladhiif if you know what I mean!!.
>
>
>Brother , Your statement above Not only a chauvinist
>sexist ,but it has got sexual over tone in it , when you add
>the two words Al-jinsi(sex), Al-ladhiif(soft), in Arabic you
>use to point that women are only sexual objects,
Aw Jama, what is this?!!. My statemement is Chauvinist sexit?!!. Poor Jama. I
thought you've some knowlege of Arabic language but it didn't work.
Let me tell you what it does mean!. The true translation of Aljinsi al-latiif
is "Women". And you said with swaggering soft sex or sex soft whatever. This
kind of direct translation is killing you Aw Jama. Watch out next!!.
>and I am
>not sure what kind of coded message are you sending to the
>sister now ,when , all your nasty private E-mails failed.
Aw Jama, after even posting all these mails you are not sure and think it was
nasty emails. Morever, you think I was playing with Amina an immoral stand.
Only wicked immoral personal dare to say such things before public..
When I asked you before sincerly how you predicate a hadith that you posted
here this was what you emailed without shame. I thought it was honest mistake
from yourside but it seems you don't things this but hold it as conviction.
Since you decide to ride this filthy wave of character assasination and want to
divert the discussion/create a new fitnah between me and Amina Mire I should
take away from your face the false mask that you're hiding behind it without
cause.
This is what you sent to me with little shame and I qoute:
"Yaa Ina Da'ud, maa baalul al-risaalaat al-qaraamiyah lilsitaat
Yaa Da'uud maa baalu aliraalaat alqaraamiyah al-siriyah, Yaa da'ud, Xaraam
calayka.
Jama
Dear cavers, rough translation would be like this:
"O Ina Da'ud what about the love letters for women, O Da'ud what about the
secrect love letters, O Da'ud, Shame on You"
What kind of man you're when you dare to distort the whole scope of discussion
and speak as aakhiro is not waiting you.
If you care about your akhiro make an Istixlaal and formal opology to me.
>Brother Daud, Stop this campaign of deception and denial
>and Hiding behind religion, and face the truth , Can you
>handle the truth ? The truth every one in this forum knows,
>you can=92t handle the truth ! as you failed to handle
>rejection.
What a justice?. You already weared the proscuter hat and the judge shoes at
the same time?. Jama, You can insult, distort the facts, deny the sunnah the
second source of Islam, defend the leftist feminist agenda in this meduim at
the same time make your witness the whole forum for your filthy stand.
Jama, You know what I stand for. I might have my shortcoming like any human
being to be but I don't thing you will get the vote of the forum or any
rational thinking person any kind of intercession of your attack on sunnah and
your leftist stand.
Make no mistake, we're on different course and your blare will not reach your
roof.
Alshaacir Almutanabi' has said:
"They had summoned it to justice, and the fates were the arbiteries, and no
wrong man died, nor did any wronger live".
Abu Alcalaa Almacarraa has said also:
"Be not deluded by a smile from a friend, for his thought are (all) hatred and
guile"
"And men, whether children or aged, (the latter) grow grey in error or (the
former) grow up (in it).
Good Luck Aw Jama.
Ina Da'ud
>J.J.Jama
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Abdirashid A Hussein
Dear J.J.
>
>I hope you are right , but it is clear to me you are in denial
>or talking about different Somali women , Are you saying
>our Somali society treats boys and girls equally and they
>have equal opportunity .
Our society treated boys and girls equally in terms that had defined their
roles separately. Boys and girls had different roles to play... this was
and is today natural. Talk of an inexistent opportunity? I believe
opportunities were limited... The highest opportunity a boy could aspire
to was to become a wadaad, a waranle etc for the girls to be best poetess
in the land, a recognition in various other fields.
>It hard for me to follow your logic , if all Somali men and
>women are disadvantaged, are they not all equal and same
>as None was disadvantaged , I can agree with you if you
>meant other groups and sections, tribes of our society are
>disadvantaged too, not only women .
>To look the ills of our society in total that was not the scope
>of the discussion, we are just talking only women.
Yes, they were equal. Though men and women had **different**roles. There
was division of labour. It was both tough for women as well as for men.
So I don't see why you should pick on women alone, separating them from
the society they came from?
Abdirashid.
--
Mohamed Mohamoud
adiga bal is ku day in aad afkaaga hooyo si fiican u qortid,afka
qalaadba mar kasta si wanaagsan baad isugu hawshaaye, adiga oo u malaynaya
inay aqoontu tahay barashada af qalaad, taas oo aad isaga mid tihiin af
hayeenka ururka "feminist"taha Aamina Mire, waxaanse la yaabay iyada garanay oo
waxay gaaladu ku guuleysteen
inay haddii ay XIJAABKA iska dhigto, kufaartii hore oo dhintayna ka mabda'
qaadato sida sheydaankii baluuto iyo waxa la mida ay noqonayso qof "ILBAXA".
marka adiga xijaabku kuma quseeyee xagee ku xanuuntay, mise aniga ayaa
si qaldan wax u fahmay oo magacaaga J. J. JAMA nin maahee waa qof dumar ah
magaciis, oo waxa uu noqon karaa JIMCA, JAMAAD iyo magacyo la mid ah.
ulamana jeedo afla gaado,
arintii aad micnaheeda i weydiisayna kolley anigu
ingiriisiga kuma fiicni waxaanse u arkaa in "feminist" ujeedada ka dambaysaa
tahay suuq gelinta dumarka,in la yiraa dumarka xor baad tihiin, shaqaysta,
wax barta,balse dadka ka dambeeya sheekada xoreynta dumarka maahan dumarka
ee waa ragga,ku waasoo wax ka gartay in ay iyaga faa'iido weyni ugu jirto in
dumarku guriga ka baxaan, waxayna usahashay ugaarsigoodii, sababtuna waa hadday
shaqaysana ninbaa madax u ah, hadday shaqo raadisana ninbay weydiin,waxay kaloo
raga arintani ka qaaday masuuliyadii qoyska, oo haatan isaga oon guursan buu
caruur dhalayaa, xaquuqna maleh gabadha ilmaha u dhashay oo haddii ay is
qabtaan isla maalintii buu boorsadeeda dibada u dhigin, waana sharciga wadanka
oo ay dajiyeen yaa kaleeto? raga.
markaas dumarkii labo meeloodba waa seegeen, tan hore gurigii ay uga
asturnaayeen raga, xoriyadna ma helin oo haddii aysan yeelin waxaa ninka
madaxada u ahi faro waa shaqo la'aan, ogowna malihi anigu dumarka oo dhan
arintan baa ku dhacday, ee waa badidooda.
marka aan kuu soo koobo "feminist" waa qofkii ku andacooda suuqgelinta dumarku
waxay la mid tahay xoreynta dumarka.
NABAD GELYO
In article <67euer$m...@news.inforamp.net>, ja...@inforamp.net says...
>
>moh...@cyberus.ca (Mohamed Mohamoud) wrote:
>>war adiguna maxaa ahayd, "Feminist" mise dameeri dhaan raacday, isa sheeg.
>
>
>War adiga Haddi Aadan ahayn dameri dhaan raacday tii ugu
>xumeays iskana hadaaqeen , ma garanaysaa macnaha Feminist, mase
>noo sheegi kartaa,? mise ayada oo la leeyahay ayaad maqashay,
>iskana tiri.
>
>J.J.Jama
>
>>In article <679ub0$m...@news.inforamp.net>, ja...@inforamp.net says...
>>>
>>>"M. A. mohamoud(Gabanow)" <moh...@cyberus.ca> wrote:
>>>>Aamina Mire anigu ma arag cilmiga aad ku faanaysid, Soomaaliduna waxay
>>>>tiraahdaa "QOF IS FAANSHAY WAA RI' IS NUUGTAY"
>>>
>>>
Amina Mire
: "Amina, please do not try to handle the kind of job in need a different
: capacity. You're aljinis alladhiif if you know what I mean!!. Only this title
: fit your capacity. Beyond that, you're putting yourself in the boot of man. And
: thats what a pseudo-feminist whom their dismount swank was the world last
: laughing in this century".
The intersting thing which runs through all fantical ideologies be it
claimed to be Islam, Nazism, Christainity, racism, or many more, is the
singular preoccupation with sex and sexuality, especially women's
sexuality. According to Fanon's psychiatry reports in Algeria
during the height of the colonial oppression, the obession with
women's bodies, in which it was common a man to kill his friend
because he susupected the man saw the face of his wife were very common
in Algeria. But as the revolutionary war for national liberation took
roots, all these trivial, morbid expression of libidal agressive
vilolence have disappreared. People find more worthy expression,
outlet for their violence, getting rid of the colonial oppressors.
History has shown us that those nations were, the national culture and
human freedon are stifled by oppression, people regress to lower forms
of agressivity to express themselves.
In Somalia and in many other mulsim nations are today politically
static. As a result, men who are oppression under this
political/economic situation, who have not decided to carry out a real
political struggle to change the course of the nationans, often use women
as outlet for their frustrated aspirations. this
is why, they seems to possessed my female sexual imegary and marry so
many women even when they are financially as well as emotionally
incapable of hanlding even one family.
Some of this sexually frustrated men hide behind language of religion
to justifies their violent impluses.
Sincerely,
Amina Mire
: >Now, In a daud, or at least this is the name you hide behind:
: What a malice?.
:
: Final note:
:
: Ina Da'ud
: >Amina Mire
: >
: >
: >
Metahara
Thank you Mohamed, I hope J.J. Jama (Jamad Jibril Jama) will understand the
meaning of feminist. I had hard time distingushing J.J.Jama's sex. He is so
feminist.
Listen J.J. Jama if you don't stop agitating Islam Woman to the wrong path that
you belived, I will hamer you. Your being a feminist doesn't mean Amina Mire
will love you. It is an ignorant and poor psycology.
Abdulaziz
J.J.Jama
>From: abdi...@aol.com (Abdi Daud)
>.Newsgroups: soc.culture.somalia
>Subject: Re: The Status of Women in Islam
>>>capacity. You're aljinis alladhiif if you know what I
mean!!.
>> "J.J.Jama" <ja...@inforamp.net> wrote
>>Brother , Your statement above Not only a chauvinist
>>sexist,but it has got sexual over tone in it , when you add
>>the two words Al-jinsi(sex), Al-ladhiif(soft), in Arabic
>>you use to point that women are only sexual objects,
>Aw Jama, what is this?!!. My statemement is Chauvinist
>sexit?!!. Poor Jama. I thought you've some knowlege of
>Arabic language but it didn't work.
>Let me tell you what it does mean!. The true translation of
>Aljinsi al-latiif is "Women". And you said with swaggering
>soft sex or sex soft whatever. This kind of direct
>translation is killing you Aw Jama. Watch out next!!.
Aw Daud :
I stand by my previous understanding of that words in
Arabic and its context , let me tell you that combination of
the two word has never been in Arabic before this century
when Arab women started their movement of emancipation
from oppression and subjugation .
Second there was no reason for you to use Arabic word in
response to Amina , as we have never seen her using it here,
let me give you the benefit of a doubt and take your
explanation of the word and intention .
you said it means women let us see how that comes out:
>>>You're aljinis alladhiif if you know what I mean!!.
means like :
>>>You're Women ,if you know what I mean!!.
If the statement above is not a sexist and has sexual overt
in it , it is at least degrading and humiliating and intend
to show women are subservient .
Are you telling us, the well learned sister is not aware of her
Gender and confused and needs to be reminded and told she
is women , not only that, she don’t know what women
means give us a break Daud . The fact is that it is you who
is not aware his contempt and hatred and disrespect for
women and like to treat them as property and slave them.
Because your beneath consciousness is working and you
conditioned for so long to behave like that .
>Aw Jama, after even posting all these mails you are not
>sure and think it was nasty emails. More ever, you think I
>was playing with Amina an immoral stand.
It is wrong by anyone to send unwanted E-mail to anyone ,
and invade his/her privacy, and you should have apologized
and stop as soon as you found out , she did not appreciate
and like your E-mails, instead you choose to escalate this
“Tamaadi Alaa Al baadil” , what ever your intention were
on those E-mails what over rides is how the receiver
perceives it .and I hope you learned your lessons.
>>When I asked you before sincerly how you predicate a
>>hadith that you posted
My stand of the Ahadith of the Prophet(PBUH), is well
known in this forum from day one, Please read my lips
instead of lying about me day in and day out , I believe the
Sunnah of he Prophet(PBUH) is the second most important
source of the religion of Islam and as I said denying all
Ahadith or sunnah is like denying the Prophet himself , that
does not mean I except or believe every Hadith or consider
some books of Ahadith are more authentic then the other .
>Since you decide to ride this filthy wave of character
>assasination and want to divert the discussion/create a new
>fitnah between me and Amina Mire .
The truth of the matter is that , I was silent form this , and
no one in this forum got the guts to tell you the truth ,no
one likes to be bulled by and harassed by you , and if I
remember correctly , the sister never mentioned your name ,
and it was wise from her to use “ Ma baalu Qowmin” , with
out pointing finger at any one , it was your who identified
yourself , did not the Arabs said Before “ Kaada Al Muriibu
An Yaquula Khuthuunii” .You knew you were guilty as we
found out from you later .
>This is what you sent to me with little shame and I qoute:
Aw Daud it is Shame on you to post a private note , you did
not even understand , I expected private E-mails private and
sacred not posted here to be read by the whole world, and I
have no doubt the deep mistrust you created in this forum
and every one will think twice before sending E-mail to any
one.
No question what you have done was wrong Islamically ,
ethically and morally . I hope you will never repeat such
shameful act if anyone ever send you E-mail.
>If you care about your akhiro make an Istixlaal and formal
>apology to me.
Aw Daud if only one up standing member of this from tells
me I am, at fault here , I will give you my unconditional
apology , but first thing comes first apologize to the Sister
and admit and apologize to this respectful forum that you
were wrong in posting those private E-mails in this NG.
>>Brother Daud, Stop this campaign of deception and
>>denial and Hiding behind religion, and face the truth ,
>>Can you handle the truth ? The truth every one in this
>>forum knows,you can=92t handle the truth ! as you
>>failed to handle rejection.
>Jama, You can insult, distort the facts, deny the sunnah the
>second source of Islam,
Aw Daud Lie Lie, I Never denied The Sunnah.
>defend the leftist feminist agenda in this meduim at
Liar ..Liar..
>Jama, You know what I stand for. I might have my
>shortcoming like any human being to be but I don't thing
>you will get the vote of the forum or any rational thinking
>person any kind of intercession of your attack on sunnah
>and your leftist stand.
I am not In a contest , don’t insult the intelligence of the
member of this forum and tell them how to vote.
>Good Luck Aw Jama.
Good luck to you too Aw Daud.
And I have no more to say on this issue .
J.J.Jama
J.J.Jama
>moh...@cyberus.ca (Mohamed Mohamoud) wrote:
>adiga bal is ku day in aad afkaaga hooyo si fiican u
>qortid,afka qalaadba mar kasta si wanaagsan baad isugu
>hawshaaye, adiga oo u malaynaya inay aqoontu tahay
>barashada af qalaad, taas oo aad isaga mid tihiin af
>hayeenka ururka "feminist"taha Aamina Mire, waxaanse la
>yaabay iyada garanay oo waxay gaaladu ku guuleysteen
>inay haddii ay XIJAABKA iska dhigto, kufaartii hore oo
>dhintayna ka mabda' qaadato sida sheydaankii baluuto iyo
>waxa la mida ay noqonayso qof "ILBAXA".
Mr, M.M,
Horta maladaydii ma khaldanayn, waxaana ii cad in
aad iska dhex boodeyso dood aadan la socon meesha ay ka
timi ama ay ku socoto, midda kale ma waxaa ku dhibtay
gabadha Somaliyeed oo kaa aqoon badan, Rag badana ka
dood badisay ;Inta caytanka iyo aflagaadada iska dayso wax
baro sida ay wax u baratay, Aqoon daro ceeb ma aha.
>si qaldan wax u fahmay oo magacaaga J. J. JAMA nin
>maahee waa qof dumar ah magaciis, oo waxa uu noqon
>karaa JIMCA, JAMAAD iyo magacyo la mid ah.
>ulamana jeedo afla gaado.
Haddi magacayga xiise kuu hayo oo jeclaatay in aad barato
isaga oo dhan waa Jama Jibril Jama , aflagaado ha kaa
ahaato ama yeeysan kaa ahaan haddii aad , marka kale
xadgudubka noocaas ah iila timaado waxa aad iga helaysaa
jawaab cad uu ku hobboon.
> arintii aad micnaheeda i weydiisayna kolley anigu
>ingiriisiga kuma fiicni waxaanse u arkaa in "feminist"
>ujeedada ka dambaysaa tahay suuq gelinta dumarka,in la
>yiraa dumarka xor baad tihiin, shaqaysta,
>wax barta,balse dadka ka dambeeya sheekada xoreynta
>dumarka maahan dumarka ee waa ragga,ku waasoo wax
>ka gartay in ay iyaga faa'iido weyni ugu jirto in
>dumarku guriga ka baxaan, waxayna usahashay
>ugaarsigoodii,
Waxaa ii cad in aad tahay qof iska hadlaya , wax iska malo
awaalaya, oo ay iskaga khaldan yihiin arimo badan oo aan
shaqo Isku lahayn , Feminism and feminist sida aad ku
sheegtay ama si dhow ma aha, aniga waxa aan ahay qof rag
ah , kamana tirsanaan karo afkoodana kuma hadli karo.
Hase waxaa ii cad in aadan waxba ka garanayn
dhaqdhaqaaqaa “ Feminism” oo macnihiisu yahay
dumarnimo ama dumarka keliyaa oo ka shaqeeya wixii dan
iyo maslaxad u ah, arimaha u garka ah ,wuxuuna
dhaqdhqaaqaas si urursan ula bilowday , Kacaankii
Faransiiska , wakhtigaa oo Yurub aan dumarka loo ogolayn
in aay hanti yeesheen ama cod siyaasaded iyo mid
bulshadeed toona, xuquuqdoodana si xun loo doodsiyi jiray,
waqtigaa oo xuquuqdaa dumarka Yurub u dagaalamyaan
kuwa Muslimaka , Alle siiyay , inkasta oo dad diinta
Islaamka si xun u fasiranaya ay xuquuqdaa dumarka Alle
siiyay ka xayuubiyeen .
Waxaan halkan ka tilmaamayaa dhow qodob:
Feminist waxa ay ka soo horjeedaaan dhilaysiga , filimada
Nimanka iyo naagha is fuul fuulaya( pornography) iyo wax
yaalaha hoos u dhigaya xushmada iyo qadarinta dumarka .
waxa ay taageeraan ilmo nuujint(Breast feeding) waxaana
ay ka soo horjeedaan siinta ilmaha dhashy caanaha diyaarka
ah ayaga oo u arkaya in Caanaha naaska hooyo wax kasta
ka qiimo badan yihiin, waxa ay u halgamaan aqoonsiga
howsha guriga , iyo in hooyada la siiyo fasax dheer marka
ay ilmo dhasho ,musharkeedana u socdo, shaqadana aan
looga saari karin, iyo in aan qofka shaqaalaha goobta
shaqada lagu faduulin karin (Sexual Harassment ),iyo ka
qayb galinta dumarka mamulka sare ee siyaasadeed ama
dhaqaaleed iyo bulshadeed , iyo in mushaarka dumarka la
siiyo u dhigmo midka raga marka ay isku shaqo qabtaan.
Iyo in aad lagu soocin qof dumarka aha dumar nimo(Gender
discrimination), Waxaana ogaataa in dumarku marar badan
ku khasban yihiin in ay shaqeeyaan ,siiba marka raga
gabaan xilkooda ah in ay masruufaan qoysaskooda , marka
marna ha u qaadan in dumarka u shaqo tagaan faduul iyo
tamashle ee waxa shaqadu lagama maarmaan u tahay nolol
maalmeedkooda.
>arkaas dumarkii labo meeloodba waa seegeen, tan hore
>gurigii ay uga asturnaayeen raga, xoriyadna ma helin oo
>addii aysan yeelin waxaa ninka madaxada u ahi faro waa
>haqo la'aan,
Dulmigaa aad sheegayso waa waxaayaalah ay ka
dhiidhinayaan oo ay doonayaan in ay ka cirib tiraan goobaha
shaqada .waana fiican tahay mar hadii aad aqoonsatay xad
gudubka iyo dulmiga raga.
Waxaadna ogaataa Maamulka hoose dumarka ayaa ragga
kaga badan . Hadda Canada waxa uu qorshuhu yahay in
tirada Dumarka iyo raga baarlmaanka fadhiisanaya ay isku
dhigmaan ama isla ekaadaan.
Abdi Daud
>On Dec 24 1997, "J.J.Jama" <ja...@inforamp.net> wrote:
>
>>From: abdi...@aol.com (Abdi Daud)
>>.Newsgroups: soc.culture.somalia
>>Subject: Re: The Status of Women in Islam
>
>>capacity. You're aljinis alladhiif if you know what I
>mean!!.
>
>> "J.J.Jama" <ja...@inforamp.net> wrote
>>Brother , Your statement above Not only a chauvinist
>>sexist,but it has got sexual over tone in it , when you add
>>the two words Al-jinsi(sex), Al-ladhiif(soft), in Arabic
>>you use to point that women are only sexual objects,
>>Aw Jama, what is this?!!. My statemement is Chauvinist
>>sexit?!!. Poor Jama. I thought you've some knowlege of
>>Arabic language but it didn't work.
>>Let me tell you what it does mean!. The true translation of
>>Aljinsi al-latiif is "Women". And you said with swaggering
>>soft sex or sex soft whatever. This kind of direct
>>translation is killing you Aw Jama. Watch out next!!.
>
>Aw Daud :
>I stand by my previous understanding of that words in
>Arabic and its context , let me tell you that combination of
>the two word has never been in Arabic before this century
>when Arab women started their movement of emancipation
>from oppression and subjugation.
I disagree with you on your stand. Furthermore, there many Arabic words today
in use due to social as well political development that being unused in
previous era. Moreover, there are words in the Quran inwhich their origin was
not Arabic language and become part of the Arabic structure as we all know it.
Btw, Jama you never cease amazing me when you call without shame the Arab women
movement was aiming to free themselves from oppression and subjugation. Even if
we knew it in this late 90's what was their intention and political discourse
you can call them a movement against oppression. What a sham!!.
They called publically Islam is their oppressor. They called Arab women to
behave like Europeon women in every aspect of life and the veil/modesty got the
first hit as a result of their pseudo-movement.
>Second there was no reason for you to use Arabic word in
>response to Amina , as we have never seen her using it here,
As long as she never complained to comprehend the Arabic words I don't see a
meaninful reason why you speak on her behalf and make such a case?. Case point
here is, I used before Arabic words more than once and this women never
complained or asked about it. So why are you flocking with this simple
sentence?!!.
>let me give you the benefit of a doubt and take your
>explanation of the word and intention .
>you said it means women let us see how that comes out:
>
>>>>You're aljinis alladhiif if you know what I mean!!.
>
>means like :
>>>>You're Women ,if you know what I mean!!.
>If the statement above is not a sexist and has sexual overt
>in it , it is at least degrading and humiliating and intend
>to show women are subservient .
No Aw Jama, this is not the benefit of doubt that Islam orders us to adhere?.
It is simple reading of the heart of people without giving regarding the basic
Islam. It seems to me that you behave like the one who bone with false and
make value judegement in hurry due to feeling weakness.
>Are you telling us, the well learned sister is not aware of her
>Gender and confused and needs to be reminded and told she
>is women , not only that, she don=92t know what women
>means give us a break Daud .
Yes, This women not only forget who she was, but also invaded the male world
without real qualification. So, she was needed someone in the forum to remind
her feminhood and her primary job and that was what I was doing here. Simple
and clear.
Aw Jama, You were like maqanaha joogaan ahee joogahan maqan baan ahee!!. Where
were you when the premises of this debate was on the role of women in Islam and
from there this women dress like men and call with little manhood brawl its
known feminist stand.
>The fact is that it is you who
>is not aware his contempt and hatred and disrespect for
>women and like to treat them as property and slave them.
>Because your beneath consciousness is working and you
>conditioned for so long to behave like that .
Pure lie. On the contrary, I caught you feminist supporter plus red handed in
sunnah. Poor Jama. Why lying about me?!!.
>>Aw Jama, even after posting all these mails you are not
>>sure and think it was nasty emails. More ever, you think I
>>was playing with Amina an immoral stand.
>It is wrong by anyone to send unwanted E-mail to anyone ,
>and invade his/her privacy, and you should have apologized
>and stop as soon as you found out , she did not appreciate
>and like your E-mails, instead you choose to escalate this
>=93Tamaadi Alaa Al baadil=94 ,
I hope you red all these emails that being posted with square deal and have
courage who then embarked escalation. Unless you suggest otherwise as you did
it without fear of Allah, it was part of ordering good to voice concerns behind
scene about her behavior. Once she felt she was not going to take this good
advice she turn upside down everything and cried without case. Even though I
never insulted her and withdrew with clean exit you call it tamaadii calal
baadhil. What a psuedo-Fiqh is this Aw Jama.
>what ever your intention were
>on those E-mails what over rides is how the receiver
>perceives it .and I hope you learned your lessons.
First, once you sent that filthy email you've no right to change you hat here
by saying "whatever your intention were on those emails". Second, are you
telling us here that if someone send another person private emails he or she
(the reciever) has every right to change the intentions and lie about the
context of the senders. If that is the case, then I have no meanigful answer to
your logic execpt to say to what Alshaacir Al-Mutanabbi' has said before:
"Is he ignorant of the wind of the lion untill he tastes it?
And the wild beasts know well the wind of lions".
to be continue!!
>>>When I asked you before sincerly how you predicate a
>>>hadith that you posted
>My stand of the Ahadith of the Prophet(PBUH), is well
>known in this forum from day one, Please read my lips
>instead of lying about me day in and day out , I believe the
>Sunnah of he Prophet(PBUH) is the second most important
>source of the religion of Islam and as I said denying all
>Ahadith or sunnah is like denying the Prophet himself , that
>does not mean I except or believe every Hadith or consider
>some books of Ahadith are more authentic then the other .
>
>>Since you decide to ride this filthy wave of character
>>assasination and want to divert the discussion/create a new
>>fitnah between me and Amina Mire .
>
>The truth of the matter is that , I was silent form this , and
>no one in this forum got the guts to tell you the truth ,no
>one likes to be bulled by and harassed by you , and if I
>remember correctly , the sister never mentioned your name ,
>and it was wise from her to use =93 Ma baalu Qowmin=94 , with
>out pointing finger at any one , it was your who identified
>yourself , did not the Arabs said Before =93 Kaada Al Muriibu
>An Yaquula Khuthuunii=94 .You knew you were guilty as we
>found out from you later .
>
>>This is what you sent to me with little shame and I qoute:
>Aw Daud it is Shame on you to post a private note , you did
>not even understand , I expected private E-mails private and
>sacred not posted here to be read by the whole world, and I
>have no doubt the deep mistrust you created in this forum
>and every one will think twice before sending E-mail to any
>one.
>No question what you have done was wrong Islamically ,
>ethically and morally . I hope you will never repeat such
>shameful act if anyone ever send you E-mail.
>
>>If you care about your akhiro make an Istixlaal and formal
>>apology to me.
>
>Aw Daud if only one up standing member of this from tells
>me I am, at fault here , I will give you my unconditional
>apology , but first thing comes first apologize to the Sister
>and admit and apologize to this respectful forum that you
>were wrong in posting those private E-mails in this NG.
>
>>>Brother Daud, Stop this campaign of deception and
>>>denial and Hiding behind religion, and face the truth ,
>>>Can you handle the truth ? The truth every one in this
>>>forum knows,you can=3D92t handle the truth ! as you
>>>failed to handle rejection.
>
>>Jama, You can insult, distort the facts, deny the sunnah the
>>second source of Islam,
>Aw Daud Lie Lie, I Never denied The Sunnah.
>
>>defend the leftist feminist agenda in this meduim at
>Liar ..Liar..
>
>>Jama, You know what I stand for. I might have my
>>shortcoming like any human being to be but I don't thing
>>you will get the vote of the forum or any rational thinking
>>person any kind of intercession of your attack on sunnah
>>and your leftist stand.
>
>I am not In a contest , don=92t insult the intelligence of the
>member of this forum and tell them how to vote.
>
>>Good Luck Aw Jama.
>Good luck to you too Aw Daud.
>And I have no more to say on this issue .
>J.J.Jama
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>is women , not only that, she don=92t know what women
>means give us a break Daud . The fact is that it is you who
>is not aware his contempt and hatred and disrespect for
>women and like to treat them as property and slave them.
>Because your beneath consciousness is working and you
>conditioned for so long to behave like that .
>>Aw Jama, after even posting all these mails you are not
>>sure and think it was nasty emails. More ever, you think I
>>was playing with Amina an immoral stand.
>
>It is wrong by anyone to send unwanted E-mail to anyone ,
>and invade his/her privacy, and you should have apologized
>and stop as soon as you found out , she did not appreciate
>and like your E-mails, instead you choose to escalate this
>=93Tamaadi Alaa Al baadil=94 , what ever your intention were
>on those E-mails what over rides is how the receiver
>perceives it .and I hope you learned your lessons.
>
>>>When I asked you before sincerly how you predicate a
>>>hadith that you posted
>My stand of the Ahadith of the Prophet(PBUH), is well
>known in this forum from day one, Please read my lips
>instead of lying about me day in and day out , I believe the
>Sunnah of he Prophet(PBUH) is the second most important
>source of the religion of Islam and as I said denying all
>Ahadith or sunnah is like denying the Prophet himself , that
>does not mean I except or believe every Hadith or consider
>some books of Ahadith are more authentic then the other .
>
>>Since you decide to ride this filthy wave of character
>>assasination and want to divert the discussion/create a new
>>fitnah between me and Amina Mire .
>
>The truth of the matter is that , I was silent form this , and
>no one in this forum got the guts to tell you the truth ,no
>one likes to be bulled by and harassed by you , and if I
>remember correctly , the sister never mentioned your name ,
>and it was wise from her to use =93 Ma baalu Qowmin=94 , with
>out pointing finger at any one , it was your who identified
>yourself , did not the Arabs said Before =93 Kaada Al Muriibu
>An Yaquula Khuthuunii=94 .You knew you were guilty as we
>found out from you later .
>
>>This is what you sent to me with little shame and I qoute:
>Aw Daud it is Shame on you to post a private note , you did
>not even understand , I expected private E-mails private and
>sacred not posted here to be read by the whole world, and I
>have no doubt the deep mistrust you created in this forum
>and every one will think twice before sending E-mail to any
>one.
>No question what you have done was wrong Islamically ,
>ethically and morally . I hope you will never repeat such
>shameful act if anyone ever send you E-mail.
>
>>If you care about your akhiro make an Istixlaal and formal
>>apology to me.
>
>Aw Daud if only one up standing member of this from tells
>me I am, at fault here , I will give you my unconditional
>apology , but first thing comes first apologize to the Sister
>and admit and apologize to this respectful forum that you
>were wrong in posting those private E-mails in this NG.
>
>>>Brother Daud, Stop this campaign of deception and
>>>denial and Hiding behind religion, and face the truth ,
>>>Can you handle the truth ? The truth every one in this
>>>forum knows,you can=3D92t handle the truth ! as you
>>>failed to handle rejection.
>
>>Jama, You can insult, distort the facts, deny the sunnah the
>>second source of Islam,
>Aw Daud Lie Lie, I Never denied The Sunnah.
>
>>defend the leftist feminist agenda in this meduim at
>Liar ..Liar..
>
>>Jama, You know what I stand for. I might have my
>>shortcoming like any human being to be but I don't thing
>>you will get the vote of the forum or any rational thinking
>>person any kind of intercession of your attack on sunnah
>>and your leftist stand.
>
>I am not In a contest , don=92t insult the intelligence of the
Abdi Daud
>>>capacity. You're aljinis alladhiif if you know what I
>>mean!!.
>>
>>> "J.J.Jama" <ja...@inforamp.net> wrote
>>>Brother , Your statement above Not only a chauvinist
>>>sexist,but it has got sexual over tone in it , when you add
>>>the two words Al-jinsi(sex), Al-ladhiif(soft), in Arabic
>>>you use to point that women are only sexual objects,
>>>Aw Jama, what is this?!!. My statemement is Chauvinist
>>>sexit?!!. Poor Jama. I thought you've some knowlege of
>>>Arabic language but it didn't work.
>>>Let me tell you what it does mean!. The true translation of
>>>Aljinsi al-latiif is "Women". And you said with swaggering
>>>soft sex or sex soft whatever. This kind of direct
>>>translation is killing you Aw Jama. Watch out next!!.
>>
>>Aw Daud :
>>I stand by my previous understanding of that words in
>>Arabic and its context , let me tell you that combination of
>>the two word has never been in Arabic before this century
>>when Arab women started their movement of emancipation
>>from oppression and subjugation.
>
>I disagree with you on your stand. Furthermore, there many Arabic words today
>in use due to social as well political development that being unused in
>previous era. Moreover, there are words in the Quran in which their origin was
>It is simple reading of the heart of people without giving real consideration
the
>basic
of Islam "not to read acmaalal Qayb".. It seems to me that you behave like the
one who bone with false and
>make value judegement in hurry due to feeling weakness.
>
>
>>Are you telling us, the well learned sister is not aware of her
>>Gender and confused and needs to be reminded and told she
>>is women , not only that, she don=92t know what women
>>means give us a break Daud .
>
>Yes, This women not only forget who she was, but also invaded the male world
>without real qualification. So, she was needed someone in the forum to remind
>her feminhood and her primary job and that was what I was doing here. Simple
>and clear.
>
>Aw Jama, You were like maqanaha joogaan ahee joogahan maqan baan ahee!!.
>Where
>were you when the premises of this debate was on the role of women in Islam
>and
>from there this women dress like men and call with little manhood brawl its
>known feminist stand.
>
>>The fact is that it is you who
>>is not aware his contempt and hatred and disrespect for
>>women and like to treat them as property and slave them.
>>Because your beneath consciousness is working and you
>>conditioned for so long to behave like that .
>
>Pure lie. On the contrary, I caught you feminist supporter plus red handed in
>anti-sunnah dogma. Poor Jama. Why lying about me?!!.
>
>
>>>Aw Jama, even after posting all these mails you are not
>>>sure and think it was nasty emails. More ever, you think I
>>>was playing with Amina an immoral stand.
>
>>It is wrong by anyone to send unwanted E-mail to anyone ,
>>and invade his/her privacy, and you should have apologized
>>and stop as soon as you found out , she did not appreciate
>>and like your E-mails, instead you choose to escalate this
>>=93Tamaadi Alaa Al baadil=94 ,
>
>I hope you red all these emails that being posted with square deal and have
>courage to say who then embarked escalation. Unless you suggest otherwise as
you did
>it before without fear of Allah, it was part of ordering good to voice
concerns
>behind
>scene about her behavior. Once she felt she was not going to take this good
>advice she turn upside down everything and cried without case. Even though I
>never insulted her back and withdrew from the discussion with clean exit you
call it tamaadii calal
>baadhil. What a psuedo-Fiqh is this Aw Jama.
>
>>what ever your intention were
>>on those E-mails what over rides is how the receiver
>>perceives it .and I hope you learned your lessons.
>
>First, once you sent to me that filthy email you've no right to change your
hat here
>by saying "whatever your intention were on those emails". Second, are you
>telling us that if someone send another person private emails he or she
>(the receiver) has every right to change the intentions and lie about the
>context of the emails. If that is the case, then I have no meanigful answer
>to
>your unlogic claim except to say to what Alshaacir Al-Mutanabbi' has said
before:
>
>"Is he ignorant of the wind of the lion untill he tastes it?
>And the wild beasts know well the wind of lions".
>
>
>When I asked you before sincerly how you predicate a
>hadith that you posted
>My stand of the Ahadith of the Prophet(PBUH), is well
>known in this forum from day one,
Yes, few know what you call real sunnah and I'm here to denudaite your face
more clear.
Please read my lips
>instead of lying about me day in and day out , I believe the
>Sunnah of he Prophet(PBUH) is the second most important
>source of the religion of Islam and as I said denying all
>Ahadith or sunnah is like denying the Prophet himself , that
>does not mean I except or believe every Hadith or consider
>some books of Ahadith are more authentic then the other .
No thank to your grifter stand. I read your lips loud and clear. Morover I read
well what kind of brainwashed you suffered during your stay in diaspora (may
be) when you just copied the idea of anti sunnah notion from the Caqlaani
movements.
Now and this is a challenge and I hope you take it with confidence. You said
with swagger you believe sunnah as second source of Islam at same time you
didn't "accept or believe every hadith.." Aw Jama, who are your to say such
nonesones.!!. For the sake of argument, if we accept you as muxadith, on what
basis you accept/reject hadith?!!. On the basis of Axmed bin Xanbal, Shaafici
or Bukhari/Muslim?. On the basis of your pure caqli?. On the basis of new
scientific method?. On Cilmi riwaayah waldiraayah?. Tell us what is the basis
of accepting the hadith.
Trouble for you then if you said on of the basis of my simple IQ. We already
know the twins is not identical in their IQ's. Take deep breath to answer this
challenging questions!!.
You said in a firm that you don't, "consider some books of Ahadith are more
authentic then the other"
That is why you don't accept authentic Xadiith in Bukhari or muslim or sunnan
since it didn't conform your caqli. Ok I got you.
Aw Jama tell the forum, where you got this idea. Ahlu sunnah believe that if
Hadith narrated Bukari and Muslim it should be accepted and Ijmaacul ummah
incaqada calayhimaa. If the Xadiith reported by sunanns or else the correct
one "on the basis of ahlul xadith" is accepted and weak and mowduuc ones are
rejected unless the weak one get's subscribtion from the respected narraters.
I'm not inflated if I said loud and clear you're mubtadic "Father" who want to
walk in the crowds with venom. Othewise, tell us how ignorant like you dare to
challenge the muslim believes and stand by saying I accept ahaadith to my
convinient. Challenge stand.
>>>Since you decide to ride this filthy wave of character
>>>assasination and want to divert the discussion/create a new
>>>fitnah between me and Amina Mire .
>>
>>The truth of the matter is that , I was silent form this , and
>>no one in this forum got the guts to tell you the truth ,
The silence of the forum means they have no guts?!!. Give us break Jama. You
were not silent Aw Jama. You were painting in this forum day in day out the the
lie of western media abouts muslims from the globe.
>no
>>one likes to be bulled by and harassed by you ,
I do believe there are lots of chivalry in this forum who do respect their
religion more than you. If little help being offered to you by seculars and
feminist that means you're alone Aw Jama.
>and if I
>>remember correctly , the sister never mentioned your name ,
>>and it was wise from her to use =93 Ma baalu Qowmin=94 , with
>>out pointing finger at any one , it was your who identified
>>yourself , did not the Arabs said Before =93 Kaada Al Muriibu
>>An Yaquula Khuthuunii=94 .You knew you were guilty as we
>>found out from you later .
Aw Jama, I laughed deeply when I see in this forum fiqi buraale like you in
desperate situation and grab here and there some of the Qawaacid almukhaadhaba
and force where it didn't belong. Only to defend this feminist you do this wild
adventure.
FYI, Aw Jama, there was no baalu qawin huna. She was talking about someone
"brother" who did sent her as lied about nasty emails. Moreover, she was not
falsified only the context of our crosspondence but she dress up to conquer!!
without qaulification the kursiyil fatwaa and issued right/left a bunge of
axkaams that has nothing to do in Islam. In addition, she attacked the very
basic of Islam when she tried to attach her ill-social setting the wheels of
Islam. Then
she asked the forum to participate in her circle.
This was not maabaalu qawmin. I should correct some of the mess up she created
in the forum. It was Islamically, morally and ethically right to do that. If I
fell silence the fatality will be greater. She thought since she is the only
women who paint in this forum many plato and Socrates dirties she can get
immunity and get away her lies. And the opposite was the case.
Abuu Faris Said"
"Yet, Islam is better guarded by his not wasting me, and I can defend Islam and
be his deputy in doing so".
>>This is what you sent to me with little shame and I qoute:
>>Aw Daud it is Shame on you to post a private note , you did
>>not even understand , I expected private E-mails private and
>>sacred not posted here to be read by the whole world,
Aw Jama you're foaming here without case. I asked a simple honest question and
your ill answer was the one I posted here. I asked one hadith you predicated to
Bukhari and you email me this filthy email accusing me that I was doing qaraam
with this women. More than that, you kept calling these emails even after
posting it in public to clarify the air, nasty emails. Moreover, you rode
without sense of taqwa anything this women said about me accusing me I was
doing what I cannot utter know.
Could you tell the forum what is the relation of this simple quesion of Hadith
and your evil emails and ride of character assasination. Needless to say, you
deserve more than that?.
You should cry sacrisy and immunity if you act like a mad person. There is no
sacred the kind of emails that touch the dignity and the religion of the
people. I wait for you almost 3 weeks to take back these ugly words after
paying to me the formal appology. Instead you opted this suicidal path accusing
me immoral stand with this women. You deserve more than that.
and I
>>have no doubt the deep mistrust you created in this forum
>>and every one will think twice before sending E-mail to any
>>one.
I have many cyber freind's that we exchange emails every time in different way
and no one ever complained about false culture you are crying for. But you
don't only cross the fence but also attack the dignity of your fellow Somali
let alone muslim . People will communicate in peace and normal way as long as
we check and hit hard like you. I'm sure you will fill the forum all kind of
crying if someone send you the kind of evil email you emailed to me.
>>No question what you have done was wrong Islamically ,
>>ethically and morally . I hope you will never repeat such
>>shameful act if anyone ever send you E-mail.
What is Islamically, ethically and morally unacceptable is what you replied to
my simple honest question. I hope you will never dare to attack your fellow
Somalis with that kind of low language in private and public.
>>If you care about your akhiro make an Istixlaal and formal
>>>apology to me.
>>
>>Aw Daud if only one up standing member of this from tells
>>me I am, at fault here , I will give you my unconditional
>>apology , but first thing comes first apologize to the Sister
>>and admit and apologize to this respectful forum that you
>>were wrong in posting those private E-mails in this NG.
I hope someone will tell you the truth not only these emails that you and this
women lied about day in dayout but also your wicked stand about the sunnah. If
someone deserve to get apology its me not you or her because you worked in evil
way to damage the reputation of your brother without real cause .
>>>>Brother Daud, Stop this campaign of deception and
>>>>denial and Hiding behind religion, and face the truth ,
>>>>Can you handle the truth ? The truth every one in this
>>>>forum knows,you can=3D92t handle the truth ! as you
>>>>failed to handle rejection.
>>
>>>Jama, You can insult, distort the facts, deny the sunnah the
>>>second source of Islam,
>>Aw Daud Lie Lie, I Never denied The Sunnah.
What a short memory?!! Aren't you said above you will not accept every hadiths.
Moreover, cried you will not considers hadith books more authentic than other.
What a lie.
>>>defend the leftist feminist agenda in this meduim at
>>Liar ..Liar..
Aw Jama, I never saw a coward like you?. Read what you wrote about fadaa'il of
feminist in your follow up of Mohamed mohamed to see the glorification of
feminist movement you made it without sense of direction!!.
>>>Jama, You know what I stand for. I might have my
>>>shortcoming like any human being to be but I don't thing
>>>you will get the vote of the forum or any rational thinking
>>>person any kind of intercession of your attack on sunnah
>>>and your leftist stand.
>>
>>I am not In a contest , don=92t insult the intelligence of the
>>member of this forum and tell them how to vote.
??!!!
>>>Good Luck Aw Jama.
>>Good luck to you too Aw Daud.
>>And I have no more to say on this issue .
Because you have no case under the sky. Aw Jama please don't fade away. You
should answer the questions that I asked you with confidence if you have
sunnah knowldege!!.
Ina Da'ud
Mahmoud Abib
J.J.Jama wrote:
> My stand of the Ahadith of the Prophet(PBUH), is well
> known in this forum from day one, Please read my lips
> instead of lying about me day in and day out , I believe the
> Sunnah of he Prophet(PBUH) is the second most important
> source of the religion of Islam and as I said denying all
> Ahadith or sunnah is like denying the Prophet himself , that
> does not mean I except or believe every Hadith or consider
> some books of Ahadith are more authentic then the other .
Salam caleykum Jama,
Brother, there is no such a thing called "second most important source"
in Islam. There are no seconds in Allah's religion, Islam. Prophet
Muhammad's mission was to deliver the Quran, the whole Quran and nothing
but the Quran. This book is our source and our only source. In our
Shahadah, we testify to La ilah illa Allah. This statement denotes the
existance of Allah Alone, and that, He is the only source of religious
instructions and guidance.
To say the denying of hadith and sunnah is denying the Prophet himself
is preposterous to say the least. Such premise demonstrates one's lack
of knowledge and understanding of Quran. The Quran teaches all that we
need to know about Prophet Muhammad.
"Muhammad - the messenger of Allah - and those with him are harsh
and stern
against the disbelievrs, but kind and compassionate amongst
themselves. You see
them bowing and prostrating, as they seek Allah's blessings and
approval. Their
marks are on their faces, because of prostrating..." Quran 48:29
"Muhammad was not the father of any of man among you. He was a
messenger of
Allah and the final prophet. Allah is fully aware of all things."
Quran 33:40
"O prophet, tell your wives, your daughters, and the wives of the
believers
that they shall lengthen their garments. Thus, they will be
recognized (as
righteous women) and avoid being insulted. Allah is Forgiver, Most
Merciful.
Quran 33:59"
"O prophet, say to your wives, "If you are seeking this life and
its vanities,
then let me compensate you and allow you to go amicably. But if
you are
seeking Allah and His messenger, and the abode of the Hereafter,
then Allah
has prepared for the righteous among you a great recompense."
33:28-29
"You shall settle down in your homes, and do not mingle with the
people
excessively, like you used to do in the old days of ignorance.
You shall
observe the Salat, and give Zakat, and obey Allah and His
messenger..." 33:33
Salaam,
Mahmoud Abib
Mahmoud Abib
Abdi Daud wrote:
> Now and this is a challenge and I hope you take it with confidence. You said
> with swagger you believe sunnah as second source of Islam at same time you
> didn't "accept or believe every hadith.." Aw Jama, who are your to say such
> nonesones.!!. For the sake of argument, if we accept you as muxadith, on what
> basis you accept/reject hadith?!!. On the basis of Axmed bin Xanbal, Shaafici
> or Bukhari/Muslim?. On the basis of your pure caqli?. On the basis of new
> scientific method?. On Cilmi riwaayah waldiraayah?. Tell us what is the basis
> of accepting the hadith.
I don't know the premises J.J employed in rejecting some hadiths while
accepting others, but the reasons of rejecting ALL HADITH (be they
authentic or not) and ANY SUNNAH other than Allah's are detailed in the
Quran. Read on:
"Which HADITH other than Allah and His revelations, do they Uphold"
45:6
Daud, do you have the answer to this question?
The Quran is the best HADITH. 39:23
The Quran is not a fabricated HADITH. 12:111
Some people uphold vain HADITH to divert others from the path of
Allah. 31:6
The only SUNNAH to follow shall be Allah's sunnah. 17:77, 33:62,
48:23, 6:114.
You may obey Allah when He says Quran is sufficient as a source of
guidance, or you obey your idols, sheikh's, grand muftis, Imams or
mullahs and end up in hell.
The choice is yours. And indeed, you have been WARNED.
Salaam caleykum,
M.Abib
Abdi Daud
>On 23 Dec 1997, am...@chass.utoronto.ca (Amina Mire) writes:
>: "Amina, please do not try to handle the kind of job in need a different
>: capacity. You're aljinis alladhiif if you know what I mean!!. Only this
>title
>: fit your capacity. Beyond that, you're putting yourself in the boot of man.
>And
>: thats what a pseudo-feminist whom their dismount swank was the world last
>: laughing in this century".
>
>
>
>The intersting thing which runs through all fantical ideologies be it
>claimed to be Islam, Nazism, Christainity, racism, or many more, is the
>singular preoccupation with sex and sexuality, especially women's
>sexuality.
Hmmmm, poor Amina!!. So what your real inferences of this lying!!!.
>According to Fanon's psychiatry reports in Algeria
>during the height of the colonial oppression, the obession with
>women's bodies, in which it was common a man to kill his friend
>because he susupected the man saw the face of his wife were very common
>in Algeria.
You see. This is what is your disposal. Fanon's reports in Algeria that his
envy on muslim veil reached on top and in revenge wrote such filthy report
which scent his repulsive extreme of hate of Islamic symbols. Your love rather
faith of infidel delusion is beyond my understanding.
>But as the revolutionary war for national liberation took
>roots, all these trivial, morbid expression of libidal agressive
>vilolence have disappreared. People find more worthy expression,
>outlet for their violence, getting rid of the colonial oppressors.
To parapharase your statement: When the fruit of national liberation was stolen
by the wicked people like Ahmed bin Bella and communist leftist slogan replaced
the slogan of Islamic spirit, the Franchphone agenda got free take off from the
ground and the Islamic ardency lost ground. What a wicked falsification of
recent history from a pseudo-feminist loser?!!.
>History has shown us that those nations were, the national culture and
>human freedon are stifled by oppression, people regress to lower forms
>of agressivity to express themselves.
This is an empty lie!!!. Amina how you blindly to defend the colonial powers
who downgraded all of our fellow muslims all over the muslim world etc. Somalis
and others when they fought their indepence they never regress to lower forms
of agressivity to express themselves.
>In Somalia and in many other mulsim nations are today politically
>static. As a result, men who are oppression under this
>political/economic situation, who have not decided to carry out a real
>political struggle to change the course of the nationans, often use women
>as outlet for their frustrated aspirations.
I know which school of thought you belong to and your empty twang without shame
is null. Before, they said, if the slave fill his stomach he commit adultery
and if he fell hungry he steel. Now with your western standard modification,
you claim due to pressure of economic/political situation, due to their failure
to challenge these odds they took out their anger on the women. but how they
took out their anger if we asked this brainwashed women she cries without
shame:
>this is why, they seems to possessed my female sexual imegary and marry so
>many women even when they are financially as well as emotionally
>incapable of hanlding even one family.
Disgusting!!. So these men who fail in the political/economic life have alot of
tranceses to run behind women's private parts?!!. What a wicked statement. And
get married four wifes to entertain and hide their real failure in the real
world!!. Is this is diapason of new agenda after failing to market the feminist
agenda in this forum. Keep on this wrong path, ha is daalinin gaadhi maysidee!!
>Some of this sexually frustrated men hide behind language of religion
>to justifies their violent impluses.
Because they told you with xikma your primary job is to raise healthy family
and you want to dismount with swank in the male world.
P/S: Amina, it is insult to the Somali women to represent in this forum as well
as other bodiums a self appointed leftist who lost in the spirit of Islam. The
Somali women will be better if their profound nature of womenhood is not
smeared by feminist who carry deadly venom like you.
Please learn Islam well and stop reading all outdated Plato/Socrates and likes
to get back the sense of feminhood you are dying for it.
Remember, from now on I will not answer your pure nonsenses that you paint here
without shame. Once you cross the fences again you will find me a naasix
telling the truth with wisdom.
Untill then good luck.
Ina Da'ud
bashir ali
Mahmoud Abib wrote:
> Brother, there is no such a thing
> called "second most important source" in Islam.
Yes, there is another source and
it is called the sunna.
> There are no seconds in Allah's religion, Islam.
Well, there is the Word of
Allah, the Holly Qur'an, and
there is the practice of the
prophet of Allah, the sunna.
> Prophet Muhammad's mission was to deliver the Quran,
> the whole Quran and nothing but the Quran.
The prophet's mission was not
one of only delivering the Qura'n
like, rather his mission included
the teaching, reciting and interpreting
the Qur'an.
> This book is our source and our only source.
The Qur'an is not meant to be
handed on to the people like
the pizza man hands the order
pizza on to the one who ordered, but
the Qur’an is a source of guidance that
requires, teaching and interpreting and
this is what the prophet did very well.
Mr. Abib, the believe that the prophet's
mission was just to deliver the Qur'an is
something the Khalifates believe and this is
where you guys and us differ.
We believe that the prophet's mission was
more than that. He was not a mere deliverer
of the Qura’n, but a teacher, interpreter,
and expounder of the message of the Qura'n
and this is called the sunna.
> In our Shahadah, we testify to La ilah illa Allah.
> This statement denotes the existance of Allah Alone, and that,
> He is the only source of religious instructions and guidance.
Well, we testify to *La ilaha ila
Allah* as well and we also testify
that *Mohammeda rasuulu Allah*, which
is an obligatory article of faith.
> To say the denying of hadith and sunnah is denying the Prophet himself
> is preposterous to say the least.
Well, a Muslim who denies the sunna
of the prophet and then follows his
own desires is one who is confused.
> Such premise demonstrates one's lack of knowledge and understanding of Quran.
One of the sunna of the prophet is the
way he performed the salat, the way he
demonstrated how Allah wants us to perform
the prayers, which it is established in
the sunna of the prophet and not the Quran.
> The Quran teaches all that we need to know about Prophet Muhammad.
> "Muhammad - the messenger of Allah - and those with him are harsh
> and stern against the disbelievrs, but kind and compassionate amongst
> themselves. You see them bowing and prostrating, as they seek Allah's
> blessings and approval. Their marks are on their faces, because of
> prostrating..." Quran 48:29
As we can see the Ayat above, the
Qura'n teaches us that Muhammed is
the messenger of Allah(Muhammeda rasuulu Allah).
The prophet’s personal habits, his
sunna, is so faithfully established
and followed by us. We do this everyday
by bowing and prostrating to Allah the
way the prophet did.
We also seek Allah's blessings upon
the prophet(sala-Allahu calayhim wasalim)
Now, Mr. Abib, how do you prostrate
and bow to Allah and where can we find
its establishment in the Qur’an?
> "Muhammad was not the father of any of man among you. He was a
> messenger of Allah and the final prophet. Allah is fully aware
> of all things." Quran 33:40
Mr. Abib, the Aaya reads this way:
"Muhammad *IS* not the father of any
of men among you, but *IS* a messenger of Allah.........."
In any event, the prophet is related to the human being
in a spiritual relation entirely different from the material
relationship of fatherhood and as such, his sunna or his
religious practice is a one we should followed it if we call
ourselves as Muslims.
We should observe the way he observed the Salat; we
should give the Sakaat the way the prophet gave the Sakaat.
As Muslims, we should obey Allah's Words as well as
follow the sunna of His messenger.
Bashir.
J.J.Jama
From: abdi...@aol.com (Abdi Daud)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.somalia
Subject: Re: The Status of Women in Islam
Please read my lips
>>instead of lying about me day in and day out,I believe the
>>consider some books of Ahadith are more authentic then
>>the other .
>No thank to your grifter stand. I read your lips loud and
>clear. Morover I read well what kind of brainwashed you
>suffered during your stay in diaspora (may be) when you
>just copied the idea of anti sunnah notion from the
>Caqlaani movements.
I am very proud to be put with the company of Omar Bin
Al-Khaddab , Abu Hanifa ,Sheik Mahamed Abdow .
Jamalu-Aldiin Afqani , Al-Imam Shaltut.
>For the sake of argument, if we accept you as muxadith,
>on what basis you accept/reject hadith?!!. On the basis of
>Axmed bin Xanbal, Shaafici
>or Bukhari/Muslim?. On the basis of your pure caqli?. On
>the basis of new scientific method?. On Cilmi riwaayah
>waldiraayah?. Tell us what is the basis of accepting the
>hadith.Take deep breath to answer this challenging
>questions!!.
I am Not a muxadith and don’t want to be one , Never
make that faulty assumption , In summary the prophet
(PBUH)did not authorize and denied the collection and
writing of Hadith in His live time , and His companions did
not dare to break his orders the same with Tabiciyiin and
tabicu altaabiyiin, later on was discovered too many
fabricated Ahdith , many people started making up Hadith
for many reason, and intentions, then was the tremendous
work of sorting out those thousand over thousand of
Ahadith people were exchanging and it was not easy task .
>You said in a firm that you don't, "consider some books of
>Ahadith are more authentic then the other"
>That is why you don't accept authentic Xadiith in Bukhari
>or muslim or sunnan
Bukhari Himself rejected too many Ahadith over Hunderds
of thousand ? Why ? He was very wrong in judging men ,
and considering some as reliable and others are not reliable
based sometime on trivial matters .
>Aw Jama tell the forum, where you got this idea. Ahlu
>sunnah believe that if Hadith narrated Bukari and Muslim
>it should be accepted and Ijmaacul ummah incaqada
>calayhimaa.
Please Aw Daud , that is not my idea , but a well known
myth that says “It has been unanimously agreed that Imam
Bukhari work is the most authentic of all other works in
Hadith literature put together” in other words the claim
Bukhari collection is the most authentic after the Quran.
So YOU us tell who made first such absurd claim ?! .
>If the Xadiith reported by sunanns or else the correct
>one "on the basis of ahlul xadith" is accepted and weak
>and mowduuc ones are rejected unless the weak one get's
>subscribtion from the respected narraters.
It is more complex and complicated than that, Every
Muhadith was very selective , what to accept and what to
reject according to his agenda and to confuse and cover
their tacks come up with too many names and definitions ,
they never simplified consider this name for Ahadith :
Mursal. Musnad , Mutasil, Mashhuur , Qarib, Musalsil ,
Caali, Naazil , Marfuuc , Mudraj, and many other names
at the end no one can say with certainty that Hadith the
Prophet said or did not say .
Aw Daud If Ahlu alsunnah was accepting the same set of
Ahadith there would never have been, different mathaahib.
And disagreements among Ahlu Alsunnah .
>She thought since she is the only women who paint in this
>forum many plato and Socrates dirties
It was Muslim scholars and Philosophers who first
embraced the work of Plato and Socrates, studied;
translated and introduced it to Europe , and only fools
ridicules their work and calles it dirty and does not
recognize the immense importance of their thinking and its
infulence in modern world.
>Could you tell the forum what is the relation of this simple
>quesion of Hadith and your evil emails and ride of
>character assasination.
No relations at all, it seems you took my joke very
seriously, and you don’t have any sense of Humor, war ileen
wadaadku kaftan ma yaqaan, and my simple note was
inspired by one the khudba of sheik Kashk , if you look
very carefully and say that note very loud it imitates his
unique style of saying things .
>I'm sure you will fill the forum all kind of
>crying if someone send you the kind of evil email you
>emailed to me.
No way , I will handle it my own way.
>If someone deserve to get apology its me not you or her
>because you worked in evil way to damage the reputation
>of your brother without real cause .
My offer still stands.
>Aw Jama, I never saw a coward like you?. Read what you
>wrote about fadaa'il of feminist in your follow up of
>Mohamed mohamed to see the glorification of
>feminist movement you made it without sense of
>direction!!.
I just stated the facts according to the movements claim ,
you can correct me if I misrepresent those claims or tell us
what they really stand for or cuyuubahum , masaawi’.
>Aw Jama please don't fade away. You
>should answer the questions that I asked you with
>confidence if you have sunnah knowldege!!.
How you know that? I will scale down my involvement in
this forum, from the beginning of the year , I will visit form
time to time and will not be active , as the Arab said:
Khalaa laka Al Jawu fabiidii, waxmarii.
J.J.Jaama
Abdi Daud
>On Dec 27 1997, "J.J.Jama" wrote:
>Please read my lips
>>>instead of lying about me day in and day out,I believe the
>>>Snnah of he Prophet(PBUH)is the second most mportant
>>>ource of the religion of Islam and as I said denying all
>>>hadith or sunnah is like denying the Prophet himself, that
>>>does not mean I except or believe every >>Hadith or
>>>consider some books of Ahadith are more authentic then
>>>the other .
>
>>No thank to your grifter stand. I read your lips loud and
>>clear. Morover I read well what kind of brainwashed you
>>suffered during your stay in diaspora (may be) when you
>>just copied the idea of anti sunnah notion from the
>>Caqlaani movements.
>
>I am very proud to be put with the company of Omar Bin
>Al-Khaddab , Abu Hanifa ,Sheik Mahamed Abdow .
>Jamalu-Aldiin Afqani , Al-Imam Shaltut.
You should be proud to put yourself with Omar Bin Alkhadhaab, Abuu Xanifa but
it is unwise to be blindly part of the errors and the agenda of the caqlaani
shieks -of course with different levels- commited duing their life as most
muslim scholars mentioned it again and again. Don't think I'm denying some of
their Xasanaat of defending of Islam they did it. For instances Sh. Mohamed
Abduh reform school is well documented its call the co-existences and muwalaa
with the superior colonials in muslim world let alone it's disgrace stand about
the prophet sunnah. I will -Allah willing deal this subject more after
Ramadaan.
>>For the sake of argument, if we accept you as muxadith,
>>on what basis you accept/reject hadith?!!. On the basis of
>>Axmed bin Xanbal, Shaafici
>>or Bukhari/Muslim?. On the basis of your pure caqli?. On
>>the basis of new scientific method?. On Cilmi riwaayah
>>waldiraayah?. Tell us what is the basis of accepting the
>>hadith.Take deep breath to answer this challenging
>>questions!!.
>I am Not a muxadith and don=92t want to be one , Never
>make that faulty assumption ,
I'm not assuming anything here but you behave as you're muxadith. If you don't
then you've to stop your sunnah meddling untill you learn sunnah.
In summary the prophet
>(PBUH)did not authorize and denied the collection and
>writing of Hadith in His live time , and His companions did
>not dare to break his orders the same with Tabiciyiin and
>tabicu altaabiyiin,
Aw Jamac, what kind of evidence you have your to your claim?!!. How do you know
that the prophet never "authorize and denied the collection and writing of
hadith in his live time". Trouble for you should you qoute from that famous
Hadith?. If you qoute that hadith then you have to take the burden of proof of
that Hadith and how you reached that its authentic and can be predicated to the
prophet while other authentic sayings are not!!!. Please Jama take this
challenging question with magnanimous.
>later on was discovered too many
>fabricated Ahdith ,
I agree and I believe it because of Ahlul hadith outstanding job they done .
Their sifting of men and texts made all muslims to confess the correctiveness
of their method. Do you?. If so, what makes you to reject their verdict in all
or most hadith' in dawaawiin of sunnah?. Does that mean that you can select
Hadith's according to your convinient?.
>many people started making up Hadith
>for many reason, and intentions, then was the tremendous
>work of sorting out those thousand over thousand of
>Ahadith people were exchanging and it was not easy task .
Without dangling around, Aw Jama, how do you believe all of this?. By common
sense or just as the way ahlul hadith conduct thier business which saved this
ummah from many evils?.
>>You said in a firm that you don't, "consider some books of
>>Ahadith are more authentic then the other"
>>That is why you don't accept authentic Xadiith in Bukhari
>>or muslim or sunnan
>Bukhari Himself rejected too many Ahadith over Hunderds
>of thousand ? Why ? He was very wrong in judging men ,
>and considering some as reliable and others are not reliable
>based sometime on trivial matters .
Aw Jama, few moments ago you were glorifiying the job of ahlul hadith and here
you denounce all above your assertions. Moreover, attack on Bukhari because
according to your desire he judged on men wrongly or sometimes on trivial
matters. Cilmul Jarxi watacdiili is the basic knowledge of judging the men. So
you had wished if Imam Bukhari should let many liers and weaks to meddle the
sunnah of the prophet and fill the basket of ummah many myths..
Now you dress up the turban of ahlul hadith, could you tell us any authentic
daliil that shows the injustice or trivial of Imaam Bukhari.
>>Aw Jama tell the forum, where you got this idea. Ahlu
>>sunnah believe that if Hadith narrated Bukari and Muslim
>>it should be accepted and Ijmaacul ummah incaqada
>>calayhimaa.
>Please Aw Daud , that is not my idea , but a well known
>myth that says =93It has been unanimously agreed that Imam
>Bukhari work is the most authentic of all other works in
>Hadith literature put together=94 in other words the claim
>Bukhari collection is the most authentic after the Quran.
>So YOU us tell who made first such absurd claim ?! .
I will, but tell us if you're not criticaster by whom/where/where muslim
scholars did reject the work of Bukhari as the most authentic hadiths after
Quran.?.
>>If the Xadiith reported by sunanns or else the correct
>>one "on the basis of ahlul xadith" is accepted and weak
>>and mowduuc ones are rejected unless the weak one get's
>>subscribtion from the respected narraters.
>It is more complex and complicated than that,
It's not complex it's easy if you follow the rule!.
>Every Muhadith was very selective , what to accept and what to
>reject according to his agenda and to confuse and cover
>their tacks come up with too many names and definitions ,
>they never simplified
Aw Jama, I feel pity on you when I see you puddling with this kind of lie. If
you don't want to destroy the deep confidence that muslims holds on ahlul
hadidths please tell the forum their wicked agenda, coverup, tacks, and
selectivness of alul hadiths?. Be specific if you dare to swim.
>consider this name for Ahadith :
>Mursal. Musnad , Mutasil, Mashhuur , Qarib, Musalsil ,
>Caali, Naazil , Marfuuc , Mudraj, and many other names
>at the end no one can say with certainty that Hadith the
>Prophet said or did not say .
These names has nothing to do confusion or cover up or smearing the clean
record of ahlul sunnah. Only the enemy of sunnah refuge such low language to
sheild their ignorance about sunnah. These names and likes shows the knowledge
and square-deal that these scholars employed on sunnah to preserve the pure one
and reject the none saying of the prophet.
Get time and read tadriib alraawi or manthumat albayquuniyah to see the real
picture of sunnah that you have diffculty to picture on your mind.
>Aw Daud If Ahlu alsunnah was accepting the same set of
>Ahadith there would never have been, different mathaahib.
>And disagreements among Ahlu Alsunnah .
Again, I feel pity on Aw Jama when I see you swimming this kind of
misinformation.. You want to justify your unjustifiable stand by filling the
air claims. The differences of mat-habs (which is not that big) is the
ignorance of many it's followers who believe wrongly whatever their Imam left
out of his mad-hab book it's out of his Mad-hab. Well, we all know that all
Imaam's was saying if the Hadith is correct then it's my mat-hab.
>
>>She thought since she is the only women who paint in this
>>forum many plato and Socrates dirties
>
>It was Muslim scholars and Philosophers who first
>embraced the work of Plato and Socrates, studied;
>translated and introduced it to Europe , and only fools
>ridicules their work and calles it dirty and does not
>recognize the immense importance of their thinking and its
>infulence in modern world.
No Jama, those who embraced the Plato and Socrates dirties had endangered later
the Imaan of muslims and they faced stiff reprisal knowledge from the muslim
scholars. Read Imaan Alqasaali work of Tahaaful alfaasifah or similars which
washed in the winward of all these pseudo- characters.
>>Could you tell the forum what is the relation of this simple
>>quesion of Hadith and your evil emails and ride of
>>character assasination.
>
>No relations at all, it seems you took my joke very
>seriously, and you don=92t have any sense of Humor,
Aw Jama, Is this your answer. Fear Allah Aw Jama. Alcudru aqbaxu mani
aldambi?!!.
You were joking to me?!! and I don't have any sense of Humor??!!
> war ileen
>wadaadku kaftan ma yaqaan,
The forum knows whether this is a reasonable katan if we ever recognize it as
Kaftan.. At this time I would say only as Abuu Firas said:
"When a freind breaks with you for no other cause but weariness, no approach is
appropriate to him, but separation".
Make an appology to me. Whether you offer it or not, I'm forgiving you for the
sake of Allah despite you hurt me loudly without case.
> and my simple note was
>inspired by one the khudba of sheik Kashk , if you look
>very carefully and say that note very loud it imitates his
>unique style of saying things .
So you were practicing and imitating the way and Sheikh Kashk's styles?!!. What
a sad. And while you were doing this you got your prey , innocent Ina Da'ud.
While destroying and eating the flesh of your brother you were practicing the
style of Khashk.
Aw Jama, I used to visit from time to time to Berbera and there was a
traditional festival called donbiro to some of few Indians who were rich. There
was a guy wearing in a weird way with a big noisy drum. I do recall all kids
were chanting behind the man laughing and playing with him. Whenever he passes
neighbourhood, a group of kids join the match with little cause.
Now, you were just practicing on me with these kind of low langauge and it was
only a joke!!.
Since Ramadaan at door I'm forgiving you Aw Jama.
>>I'm sure you will fill the forum all kind of
>>crying if someone send you the kind of evil email you
>>emailed to me.
>No way , I will handle it my own way.
Of course, with more serious jokes!!
>>If someone deserve to get apology its me not you or her
>>because you worked in evil way to damage the reputation
>>of your brother without real cause .
>
>My offer still stands.
Me too, my simple sincere offer still stands as long as you think it was joke
and hurt the feeling of your brother without cause except imitating Sheikh
Kashk!!!.
>>Aw Jama, I never saw a coward like you?. Read what you
>>wrote about fadaa'il of feminist in your follow up of
>>Mohamed mohamed to see the glorification of
>>feminist movement you made it without sense of
>>direction!!.
>
>I just stated the facts according to the movements claim ,
>you can correct me if I misrepresent those claims or tell us
>what they really stand for or cuyuubahum , masaawi=92.
??????!!!!!.
>>Aw Jama please don't fade away. You
>>should answer the questions that I asked you with
>>confidence if you have sunnah knowldege!!.
>
>How you know that? I will scale down my involvement in
>this forum, from the beginning of the year , I will visit form
>time to time and will not be active , as the Arab said:
>Khalaa laka Al Jawu fabiidii, waxmarii.
Whether you scale down or not, these questions will haunt you for the rest of
your life if you continue on the path of caqlaanis. Amma qad khalaa liyal jawu
fabiidhii waxmarii the answer is simple
"According to the degree of the people of resolves come the resolutions, and
according to the degree of noble men come the noble actions:.
Ina Da'ud
>J.J.Jaama
>
>
>
>
Abdi Daud
Who are they?!!!.
>>there are certain charactersitics which are common certain angry
>>brothers here but also those with angry faces who refuse young Somali
>>girls for full education because of what they take to be essential
>>incapcity of women with respect to men.
So you were milked by your masters which told you that you have an equavilent
of male capacity and you can do whatever male world adventure in all time!!!.
Poor Amina. Learn full education for fun only since your genetic bank refused
to lend you the necessary muscles that brave the capacity you are crying for.
First, all their hate and
>>attacks are aways projected to elsewhere.
No, Amina. They don't have hate and attacks on reason, they've the naked truth
that you running away without apparent reason.
>That is, they often do not
>>admit shortcomings and when you try to reason with them, they seek to
>>find collaborating verse, from the Quran or Hadith rather than seeing
>>their misuse of the Quran and the Hadith.
What a false fiqi Buraale?!!. You reason with them the Plato, Socrates dirties
since you've no guts to listen the real xikma of Islam. And when they challenge
you and wash away your poor Greek philosophy with Quran and sunnah that you
fail to observe in your social setting you mask in hollow way the turban of
Islam without real qualification. Instead of lying about their stand, pick up
one single verse or Hadith that support your outgoing and often eating in that
Halal restaurant??!!. Challenge!!!.
> Second, many of them hate
>>the humanities and prefere technical fields.
What kind of humanities. Plato and Socrates are Humanities and has to do my
Akhiro or the well being of my world?.
>That is, they often hate
>>those areas of learning which forces them to emply critical thinking which
>>will of course forces them to crical examine their conducts well as taking
>>history seriously.
So if someone never raise his/her head to learn Plato philosiphies, he/she will
not deal with a square deal in any life setting in a critical way. On the
contrary if someone become blind/subservience of the legacy of those infidals
he/she be enjoyed the critical thinking in all life setting. Moreover, he/she
enjoys the legacy of Islam from the historical perespective that has only
glorify the rules of modern history and its infidality?.
On the contrary, these wicked statements that this women made suggests if you
read and learn quran/sunnah you will be empty dull because the Quran/sunnah
will not stimulate your neuro critical thinking of history/life etc.
I'm not surprising the wickedness and the deep ignorant of this women, but what
make me in surprise is how she blindly drunked with the Plato dirties untill
she outweighed this kind of pseudo thinking over Quranic Xikma.
>Third, their fear is often motived by fear from a
>>supposed enemy from within and from without. Hence they are always in
>>a state of perpetual war.
Since you live under fear of the success of Islamic moverment in the world
you've every right to have this kind of misinformation and misrepresentation.
I'm sure you copied from this your masters.
>This trait is common to all those who are
>>under unreflective ideological spill.
As self defeated feminist who were brainwashed by infidels, she can express
with little dignity the state of deception she was going through. It is a
proccess. Soon it will fade.
For those you hate them their slogan is and will be:
"I have a high purpose firmer than a rock and stronger than immovable
mountains" If you know what it does mean to you?.
>>The particular fantics I have in
>>mind use islam but very few really understand islam not just as
>>partical values but as system of thought which covers, all that is
>>progressive in the world.
How do you know that?. Since you've value confilict with them and deliberately
negate your modesty how do you think they don't have the full picture of Islam.
No system is built on empty slogans. Value of islam is the cornerstone of it
whole stablishement. Get that..
>They forget that the world, the modern world
>>that is was brought about by muslim civization which at its peak had the
>>power to conquer weaker, less sophisticate civilizations.
In other word, Islam had flourished under the weakers, less sophisticated
civilized world but today the Islam has no chance to win. Sure this is what
humanities had taught during your lost journey in Toronto University.
>They see, today
>>that western countries who, of course, hate islam and seek to deny that
>>islam ever contributed to human progress, are nevertheless
>>technologically and economically more powerful than all of the muslim
>>world.
On the contrary, they see the west had flourished technoligically/economically
on the expenses of muslim resources around the globe. I don't think you've guts
to listen the data related to this matter since your humanities taught you this
kind of superficial critical thinking as de facto.
>> In response, these fantics vehemently denounce the west while
>>pasively admiring the west by learning their technologizes and by using
>>them pasively.
In this cultural hegamony that west created in the world by coersion, this
leftist women is taking out her misguided myth anger on muslim Islamist in the
globe. Morever, every word she employed here is the copy of her hypocrate
seculars that thrown out the shirt of Islam before publically. What make little
surprise here is why she never dare to mention that more than hundered thousand
muslim scholars did take part of developing/making etc of this technology be
software/defense tech, Nasa programs. May be her humanities has only one eye
and that eye can see her masters writing in which she admires in deep.
> they rearly take initiative to appropriate these
>>technologies, subvert them so to make these technologies meet the
>>needs of muslim people.
Does that mean they are not interacting positvely the new/socio economic that
hosted them reluctantly while the yellow people no t only pass the cultural
shock but also did spying/coping the codes of the Silicion Valley or Bill Gates
softwares for instances to enrich the baby infrusturces and high tech in their
homeland!!.
They often cannot think the need for such
>>subervsaion. In Somalia and else where, they are in love with anything
>>hightech, but lost their capcity for craftsmenship. All their
>>actions hence only facilitates the western domination of the muslim
>>people throughout the world.
Amina, I cannot follow your empty logic from here. I totally have difficutly to
comprehend your empty and hollow premises. If that is not true, how you accuse
on what you call with ignorant fanatics -as they are in power in their
countries- they are only facilitates the western domination in their
arena?!!!!. I believe the hate is eating up to your critical thinking that you
claimed before.
>Because of their antigonistic thinking ,
>>they often do not seek to make friends or learn from other oppressed
>>peoples who are not necessarily muslim, to see how such peoples
>>survive and manange to keep their communities together under the thumb
>>of the oppressors.
So do you think, the quran is not enough to teach peple how to manage, survive
and keep communities together under the thump of the oppressors. I feel pity on
you, Amina
these people, are not arisons, or dig the land to
>>grow fruits for the people.
They dig the land and grow the fruits for the people. They do amri bilmacruuf
wa nahyi canil munkar which is the difficult part to this Somali lonely
feminist to swallow it in peace.
they are often in love with IMB computers,
>>the Internet and the AK47.
?!!!!!
These people, hate women who are assertive
>>but adore those who are passive and meak.
On the contrary, they hate women who diswank like a man and forget her real
feminhood. They hate women who fail to raise a healthy family. They hate a
women who walk between man and speak and dress like a man after negating to
what she was entrusted to look after. They like all women who cares and play
the clean role that she was entrusted with sincerity. They respect those women
who do not listen those manic feminist who lost in touch the spirit of
Islam/life.
These are manice and they are
>>really the enemy of islam and the people.
Yes they are manice to your pseudo social setting/thinking that has no ground
on our religion. They are not enemy of real Islam. They are enemy of Feminist
Made Islam.
>The Eurpean/American
>>imperialists love these people because they already know these are
>>harmless fools.
On the contrary, American/Europeans likes these feminists who hide under the
slogan of anything. They open for them these humanities schools which taught
them the criticical thinking and analysis that aim seriously the history of
muslim ummah while employing the tenent of Plato and his colleauges technics.
> The working men and women, those who go out to reclaim the
>>land and the society and who are focused on the material improvement
>>of the people are the realy enemy of the imperialist forces and not the
>>fanantics.
What a false leftist speech. Only those who want to destroy the role of muslim
women utter such filthy jargon. Amina, Islam focuses both on material and
spirituals needs of human being and your cry for material improvement shows
your true materialistic color. Enjoy it.
The reason is because the imperialist forces want the land and
>>its resources for themselves.
>>But if oppressed societies gain a level of consciousness to mobilize
>>its forces including that of women for the betterment of its people,
>>then imperialist forces will not be able to gain easy access to the land
>>and its resources.
The Imperialist forces are not looking for only Land or resources. They already
gained through seculars and leftists. Besides this, they want to create more of
these faces less group who do use in mad its termonology ie fanatics to prolong
their ultimate agenda which is to destroy the real Islam.
>the fantics on the other hands are stupids who are
>>at the stage of the libido.
Illeyn dumarka qaarkii cayda kama waynaadaan. Wagereey!! iska caytan!! iyadaa
kula tabar ah.
They are more worried about women's looks and
>>what she wears than whether the people are hungery or fed.
They are worry and fight for full manhood if they saw a muslim women who wear
bikini, dirac and so on. Moreover, they feel little worry about muslim sisters
who play positive role of building muslim communities through natural proccess
that will not endanger her primary job.
>>This is the tragic phenomenon which is wrecking a havoc in many Muslim
>>societies today.
On the opposite, this is a good sign of heeling and recovering of the healthy
ummah.
The fanatics are really agents of imperialsts not
>>because they were sent by the imperialist forces but because in their
>hateful
>>twested minds they pasively consume the technology, the way of doing
>>things of the oppressers they claim to be against!
What a sad conclusion?!!!. The seculars has same language and lament call
wherever they are to falsify the reality on the ground, be they are tyranies,
professors like Dr Faraj Fowda, or this loser Somali feminist Amina Mire:
Islamist is agent?!!!.. Waa hashii cunaysay oo cabaadaysay oo kale.
Ina Da'ud