Would it be a sin...
fat...@ppp.nasionet.net
Would it be a sin if the Muslim peoples of the Horn of Africa,
all came together as one happy entity under the banner of Islam?
What's your opinion?
Wassalam
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
Nani Retta
No it would not be a sin. But it would be a very misguided proposition.
First, you are assuming that all muslims would like to live under Islamic
government. Many prefer a secular one. Second, our problem (the horn)
is not one of religion but bad politics. And there is nothing worse than
religious government. Politics is a dirty game that will compromise on every
thing. Religion does not allow compromisation. By combining the two, you will
end up adultrating religion.
First you should solve your problem in Somalia before you can think of anything
bigger.
Abdi A Abdi
If every muslim woul have you'r views, we would be a great people.what is
dividing us is a geoplotics,power hunger, and misunderstanding of our
religion.
thank you sister fatima keep up the good workf...@ppp.nasionet.net wrote
in article <6vo3sa$kaj$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
fat...@ppp.nasionet.net
In article <19981010172409...@ng113.aol.com>,
Before I make any comments on the post, I would like to know the following:
1. Is the poster a Muslim? If the answer is yes: Has he ever lived in
a truly Islamic State? And what were his personal experiences?
2. If he's not Muslim, then what're his reasons for opposing the
wishes of the Muslim community in the Horn, if the wish comes from
them that they want to be united for the sake of Allah? They're
already witnesses to the futility of divisiveness.
I invite the poster to speak only for himself and not assume that
everyone else shares his views.
Wassalam
Abdidhoof
><HTML><PRE>Subject: Re: Would it be a sin...
>From: fat...@ppp.nasionet.net
>Date: Sun, Oct 11, 1998 02:36 EDT
>Message-id: <6vpjln$lvf$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>
>
>Assalamu 'alaikum,
>
>
Abdidhoof
>
>Assalamu 'alaikum, brothers and sisters in Islam
>
>Would it be a sin if the Muslim peoples of the Horn of Africa,
>all came together as one happy entity under the banner of Islam?
>
>What's your opinion?
>
>Wassalam
Dear Fatima,
On the issue of "BIG DREAMS", perhaps you should consult with Gadafi.
The Arab world has more in common than the peoples of the Horn of Africa, and
yet the concept of political unity has failed to materialize according to the
Pan-Arabists' dream.
I myself am a Muslim and from the horn of Africa, but unfortunately I also
believe that what you are proposing is impossible, and even if it were to
happen, it would mean a deadly revolution and a long and bloody civil war
engulfing the entire Horn of Africa.
Is it worth ?
Guled A. Mohamed
Please read this Ayah:
QURAN: surah 63, ayah 1-8
AL-MUNAFIQUN
In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.
1- When the Hypocrites
Come thee, the say,
"We bear witness that thou
Art indeed the Messenger
Of Allah." Yea, Allah
Knoweth that thou art
Indeed His Messenger,
And Allah beareth witness
That the Hypocrites are
Indeed liars.
2- They have made their oaths
A screen (for their misdeeds):
Thus they obstruct (men)
From the Path of Allah:
Truly evil are their deeds.
3- That is because they believed,
Then they rejected Faith:
So a seal was set
On their hearts: therefore
They understand not.
4- When thou lookest
At them, their exteriors
Please thee; and when
They speak, thou listenest
To their words. They are
As (worthless as hollow)
Pieces of timber propped up,
(Unable to stand on their own).
They think that every
Cry is against them.
The curse of Allah be
On them! How are they
Deluded (away from the Truth)!
5- And when it is said
To them, "Come, the Messenger
Of Allah will pray for your
Forgiveness", they turn aside
Their heads, and thou wouldst
See them turning away
Their faces in arrogance.
6- It is equal to them
Whether thou pray for
Their forgiveness or not.
Allah will not forgive them.
Truly Allah guides not
Rebellious transgressors.
7- They are the ones who say,
"Spend nothing on those
Who are with Allah's Messenger,
To the end that they
Man disperse (and quit Madinah)."
But to Allah belong
The treasures of the heavens
And the earth; but
The Hypocrites understand not.
8- They say, "If we
Return to Madinah, surely
The more honourable (element)
Will expel therefrom the meaner".
But honour belongs to Allah
And His Messenger, and
To the Believers; but
The Hypocrites know not
9-
Abdidhoof
So what is this ?
Anyway, why don't you post your own opinions on this wall, instead of
re-posting other people's ideas or refering me to "read" the Koran ?
Or is it that you lack the courage to speak your own mind, or worse lack the
intelligence to reach your own conclusions and put them in a cohisive form of
wrinting ?
Instead of calling me a hypocrite, why don't you answer to Fatima's question ?
You can't, because your mind works like a copier machine, all you know is just
to replicate and reprint what others have written.
If you call me a hypocrite, then I may as well call you a Stupid !
bashir ali
> So what is this?
What brother Guled confied was the Qura'an, Abdidhoof, the Qur'an
and nothing else.
> Anyway, why don't you post your own opinions on this wall, instead of
> re-posting other people's ideas or refering me to "read" the Koran ?
> Or is it that you lack the courage to speak your own mind, or worse lack the
> intelligence to reach your own conclusions and put them in a cohisive form of
> wrinting ? Instead of calling me a hypocrite, why don't you answer to Fatima's question ?
> You can't, because your mind works like a copier machine, all you know is just
> to replicate and reprint what others have written.
Abdidhoof, the last time I had checked, the Qura'n had
never been anyone's ideas. The Qur'an can tell us a lot
of things; It can tell us of whom we are dealing with or
what we need to hear and read for ourselves and whosoever
is using the Qur'an is not really lacking any courage; rather,
It is Allah Who encouraged us, the believers to be mindful of His
Words, the Qura'n. The prophet, himself, had always let the Qur'an
speak for himself. In fact, the prophet was said to have been a
*walking Qur'an* and his mind was imprinted the Words of Allah
and in turned, he was to convey It to all who wanted to hear and
to those who had difficult listing or reading of what the Qur'an
is saying, the hypocrites, had to hear the Qur'a'n also, whether
they like it or not. A muslim never have to shy away of referring
to the Qura'n, never.
Bashir
fat...@ppp.nasionet.net
In article <19981011144418...@ng-fa2.aol.com>,
abdi...@aol.com (Abdidhoof) wrote:
> Dear Fatima,
> On the issue of "BIG DREAMS", perhaps you should consult with Gadafi.
No disrespect meant, but what's wrong with Gadafi's 'dreams'? At least,
the guy has some dreams, a target, something to focus his eyes on. And
who are we to slight him for that?
As it is, we've enough defeatits in the Muslim world.
The problem with all defeatists is that, they're just that: defeatists.
They just don't try things. And worse, they let others, simple mortals
like themselves, decide for them. And Allah does not change the
condition of people unless they change what is within themsevles.
The choice is ours. We want something, we go for it. And the starting
point of everything is the 'idea'. And the time has come for the
Muslim people of the Horn to think and pray.
> The Arab world has more in common than the peoples of the Horn of Africa, and
> yet the concept of political unity has failed to materialize according to the
> Pan-Arabists' dream.
I'm not talking about pan-ethniticity, am talking about Islam
and uniting the Ummah for their own good. Now what does Islam
have to do with Pan-Arabism? Is Pan-Arabism synonimous with
Islamic aspirations?
> I myself am a Muslim and from the horn of Africa,
salamu alaikum,
> but unfortunately I also believe that what you are proposing is impossible,
Did Allah tell the brother that? How did he arrive at these conclusions?
Is he speaking from experience?
> and even if it were to happen, it would mean a deadly revolution and a long >
> a bloody civil war engulfing the entire Horn of Africa.
This sounds like a doomsday scenario. However, the brother's gloomy
predictions happen to be somewhat different from what MUslims know from
Allah subhanuhu wa ta'Ala, and His Messenger, salla allahu alaihi wassalim.
Please ponder on what Allah says and then compare His Wishes with
the brother's own miscalculations:
"Have you not seen those who assert that they believe
in what has been sent down to you, and what was sent
down before you, and yet desire to summon one another
to the rule of powers in rebellion against God,
although they have been commanded to reject them..." (Al-Nisa: 60)
Allah is the Doer of what He wills and He's commanded us to pray
for His Grace and struggle for His Cause. And his Cause should be
our Cause, too, that is if we really want success.
"Say: 'O Allah! Lord of Power (and Rule),
thou givest Power to whom Thou pleasest,
And Thou strippest off Power from Whom Thou pleasest:
Thou enduest with honour whom thou pleasest,
And Thou bringest low Whom thou pleasest:
In Thy hand is all Good. Verily, over all things thou hast Power."
(Qur'an: Ali'Imran: 26)
The good news is: Power lies in the Hands of Allah alone.
But first we've to want something of that Grace, inshaAllah.
And the first step is to create awareness in the minds of the
Ummah that they can do it, inshaAllah.
And why not? If they can have the strength to trample
on each other, in the name of greed, surely the same powers
can be channeled to better deeds, in the Name of Allah?
Wassalam
From a dreamer in the Will of Allah
Guled A. Mohamed
Guled A. Mohamed (cx...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA) writes:
> Abdidhoof (abdi...@aol.com) writes:
>>>
>>>Assalamu 'alaikum, brothers and sisters in Islam
>>>
>>>Would it be a sin if the Muslim peoples of the Horn of Africa,
>>>all came together as one happy entity under the banner of Islam?
>>>
>>>What's your opinion?
>>>
>>>Wassalam
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On the issue of "BIG DREAMS", perhaps you should consult with Gadafi.
>> yet the concept of political unity has failed to materialize according to the
>> Pan-Arabists' dream.
>>
>> believe that what you are proposing is impossible, and even if it were to
>> happen, it would mean a deadly revolution and a long and bloody civil war
>> engulfing the entire Horn of Africa.
>>
>
I was hoping your answer will not be like this.
If a person says he is a Muslim and the same time predict the future with
sharia of Islam as a bloodshed and worse than today. That person has to be
ignorant of the faith or hypocrite. So to make sure the stand of that
person, as a Muslim, our responsibilities is to tell or remember him the
Words of Allah.
And your answer, after reading the surah, was: ( I quote)
"So what is this?"
Allah gave you the right to chose the way to go jannah or naar.
I hope you understood me. And I wish you were ignorant about that surah.
By the way, in my previous post I didn't call you hypocrite. But I invited
you to read the surah, saying "PLEASE READ THIS AYAH". And that doesn't
mean you are hypocrite. I can invite a person , Muslim or Non-Muslim, to
read the Quran (Al-Munafiqun) and that for sure doesn't means that person
is a Munafiq.
Whatever is my personality doesn't help your case.
Wassalaamu Caleykum Waraxmatullaah
> 9-
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
fat...@ppp.nasionet.net
cx...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Guled A. Mohamed) wrote:
> Guled A. Mohamed (cx...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA) writes:
>
> By the way, in my previous post I didn't call you hypocrite. But I invited
> you to read the surah, saying "PLEASE READ THIS AYAH". And that doesn't
> mean you are hypocrite. I can invite a person , Muslim or Non-Muslim, to
> read the Quran (Al-Munafiqun) and that for sure doesn't means that person
> is a Munafiq.
Assalamu 'alaikum,
Brother Guled,
Thanks for clarifying your intention to our brother. Allah is polite
and loves politeness.
Jaza'akallahu khyran
Wassalam
ali mahamud
AHAAN XITAA DIINTA AAN KU HESHIIS KARIN WAAYO DAD BADAN SOOMAALI WAXAY WAX KU SOO
BARTEEN SACUUDI CARABIYA OO WAXAY LEEYIHIIN DIINTA SIDII HORE AAN U HEYSANAEY WAA
QALAD, KUWA KALE WAXEY LEEYIHIIN GARDHEERE WAA BIDCI , KUWA KALE WAXEY KU EKAADEEN
GURYAHOODA IYAGOO ALLE MEESHAAS KU CAABUDA, WAXAA SAXIIBKEY II SHEEGAY DHAWAAN IN
XAMARAY KA JIRAAN MASAAJIDO BADAN OO KA KALA TIRSAN URURADDA SIDA WAAHAABI, ISLAAX,
ITIXAAD, SUUFIYADA, AQWAANKA IYO KUWA KALE OO FARABADAN , HADABA WAXAA MEESHAAS KA
CAD IN SOOMAALIDA XITAA DIINTA KU KALE TAGEEN OO ODEYGII SOOMAALI WAA GABLAN OO
XITAA ILMIHIIS WAX AY KU HESHIIYEEN MA JIRAAN.
Abdidhoof
For a moment, I think we should stop insulting each other's intelligence, you
see, if one goes to a doctor, lets say a general practitioner, and the doctor
refers him or her to a psychiatrist, even though that doctor is not necessarily
calling the person a "nut" or something, doesn't it mean the doctor is
suspecting something is not well with the patient's head ?
Of all the Ayaats of the holy Koran, Guled has chosen to refer me to those that
deal with the "Hypcrites", like Prozac, and yet he is telling me that he was
not calling me a Hypocrite !
The patient was given a the pill, but nobody said he was Depressed, this is
like smoking but without never inhaling !
Sorry, but I am not going to buy that.
Now this one is to those Rigid-Head Islamists who don't get it, when I asked
"So, what is is this ?", I meant to ask about his (guleds') intentions, and I
say again "Guleed's INTENTIONS" of refering me to those Aayaats that
specifically dealt with the Hypocrites, and not the Koran, okey ? Insha-Allah,
now this should be clear to everyone's mind, and if not, to borrow a line from
hollywood, quite frankly my dear, I don't give a damn !
To Guleed:
Instead of calling me a Hypocrite and preaching me about I don't know what..,
you should at least try to answer to Fatima's question, and tell us about how
is it possible to unify the Muslims of the Horn into one single political
entity, while at the same time avoiding wars and bloodshed between the Muslims
in the horn of Africa and the non-Muslims of Kenya and Ethiopia.
As we say in Somali: "Kii dhuumanaayoo, dhabarku muuqdo..", you can hide behind
the Holy Koran and all that nonsense preaching, but I think I can see your lack
of ideas about this particular issue, so why don't you just stick to your
regular habit of copying and reprinting what others have composed, and Cut and
Paste on the walls of this cave ?
><HTML><PRE>Subject: Re: Would it be a sin...
>From: bashir ali <bas...@worldnet.att.net>
>Date: Mon, Oct 12, 1998 21:45 EDT
>Message-id: <362206D0...@worldnet.att.net>
></PRE></HTML>
bashir ali
> Dear Bashir,
> For a moment, I think we should stop insulting each other's intelligence, you
> see, if one goes to a doctor, lets say a general practitioner, and the doctor
> refers him or her to a psychiatrist, even though that doctor is not necessarily
> calling the person a "nut" or something, doesn't it mean the doctor is
> suspecting something is not well with the patient's head ?
> Of all the Ayaats of the holy Koran, Guled has chosen to refer me to those that
> deal with the "Hypcrites", like Prozac, and yet he is telling me that he was
> not calling me a Hypocrite !
> The patient was given a the pill, but nobody said he was Depressed, this is
> like smoking but without never inhaling !
> Sorry, but I am not going to buy that.
> Now this one is to those Rigid-Head Islamists who don't get it, when I asked
> "So, what is is this ?", I meant to ask about his (guleds') intentions, and I
> say again "Guleed's INTENTIONS" of refering me to those Aayaats that
> specifically dealt with the Hypocrites, and not the Koran, okey ? Insha-Allah,
> now this should be clear to everyone's mind, and if not, to borrow a line from
> hollywood, quite frankly my dear, I don't give a damn !
Abdidhoof, speaking of suspecting what is on
you head, you have both introverted and extroverted
tendecies--you don't want to be insulted or be called
a hypocrite, but then you go right ahead and say that
you "don't give a damn" about what brother Guled copied
and pasted on this thread...the Qura'n.
You tell him not to write the Qu'anic Ayaats; you keep
telling him that he is hiding "behind the Holy Koran"
and you call this a "nonsense preaching".
We know that you don't want to be ruled in Allah's
Words or you do not want to followed the Words of
Allah, the Qua'n--not Koran.
You tell us that you are secular person every chance
you get by preaching to us that we don't need to follow
Allah's Words. Your interests are not the Words of Allah.
Indeed, you are a non-religious person, a secular as you
say---in the sense that your personality is like that of
most people who oppose what Islamic or Islamic rule stands
for---good.
Bashir.
Abdidhoof
I am sorry to say, but I don't think religion, any religion, Islam or otherwise
is going to unify the different ethnic groups of the Horn of Africa.
In my opinion, Peace, Trade and Commerce between these groups has a better
chance at realizing such a dream.
Your idea, as I have understood it, of simply unifying the Muslims in that
region, can have a negative reaction, you are overlooking the details, there
are non-Muslims living in that region and they don't believe in same God as
yours, and if you think that their God is wrong, they also think that you's is
even wronger, and you can't prove each other wrong, unless you both DIE, and if
you think that they should be either assimilated or else elliminated, then that
would mean a war, and your dream turning into a bloody nightmare.
Over-dosing with a dream can be a dangerous thing.
And please don't ask me if Allah has told me all of the above ?
Perhaps you should start dreaming a small step at time, like starting tonight
with a small and nice one about a unified and peacefull Somalia, for such a
dream is likely more realizable than the one you had the previous night.
><HTML><PRE>Subject: Re: Would it be a sin...
>From: fat...@ppp.nasionet.net
>Date: Mon, Oct 12, 1998 23:01 EDT
>Message-id: <6vufq7$3nf$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>
>
>Assalamu 'alaikum,
>
>In article <19981011144418...@ng-fa2.aol.com>,
> abdi...@aol.com (Abdidhoof) wrote:
>
>> Dear Fatima,
>
>> On the issue of "BIG DREAMS", perhaps you should consult with Gadafi.
>
>No disrespect meant, but what's wrong with Gadafi's 'dreams'? At least,
>the guy has some dreams, a target, something to focus his eyes on. And
>who are we to slight him for that?
>
>As it is, we've enough defeatits in the Muslim world.
>The problem with all defeatists is that, they're just that: defeatists.
>They just don't try things. And worse, they let others, simple mortals
>like themselves, decide for them. And Allah does not change the
>condition of people unless they change what is within themsevles.
>The choice is ours. We want something, we go for it. And the starting
>point of everything is the 'idea'. And the time has come for the
>Muslim people of the Horn to think and pray.
>
>> The Arab world has more in common than the peoples of the Horn of Africa,
>and
>> yet the concept of political unity has failed to materialize according to
>the
>> Pan-Arabists' dream.
>
>I'm not talking about pan-ethniticity, am talking about Islam
>and uniting the Ummah for their own good. Now what does Islam
>have to do with Pan-Arabism? Is Pan-Arabism synonimous with
>Islamic aspirations?
>
>> I myself am a Muslim and from the horn of Africa,
>
>salamu alaikum,
>
>> but unfortunately I also believe that what you are proposing is impossible,
>
>Did Allah tell the brother that? How did he arrive at these conclusions?
>Is he speaking from experience?
>
>> and even if it were to happen, it would mean a deadly revolution and a long
>>
>-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
>http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
></PRE></HTML>
fat...@ppp.nasionet.net
> ali mahamud <ev98...@alv.kth.se> wrote:
> WALAALAYALOW ARIMAHA DIINTA WAXAA KA DHICI KARA QILAAFYO BADAN MAADAMA >
> SOOMAALI AHAAN XITAA DIINTA AAN KU HESHIIS KARIN WAAYO DAD BADAN SOOMAALI
> WAXAY WAX KU SOO BARTEEN SACUUDI CARABIYA OO WAXAY LEEYIHIIN DIINTA SIDII HORE
> AAN U HEYSANAEY WAA QALAD, KUWA KALE WAXEY LEEYIHIIN GARDHEERE WAA BIDCI , >
> KUWA KALE WAXEY KU EKAADEEN
Horta ka raali noqo afsomaaliga aan halkan ku qori doono. Waxaan umalayn
in uusan wacnyn, oo khaladaad badan aad kolayba ka heli doontiid. Laakin
waan isku dayi, inshaAllah.
Horta diinta Islamku waa mid kaliya. Islamarkii waa mid waasic ah oo
qofkasta isku dayi karo in uu fahmo. Qofku mar hadhii uu haysto
kitabka Qoranka ah iyo xadiska saxixiga ah ee nabiga laga soo wariyey,
salla allahu calayhi wassalam, wax ka maqan majirto. Muslimiinta
sunaha ah oo adoonka joogana wax wayn ay ku ka la duwanyihiin majirto.
Wax yaalaha lagu kala duwanyahay na waa wax yar oo in la isku khilaafa
ayay ahyn, waayo all the different madhab are all correct. Marka
qofkii isku daya in uu Muslimiinta kala firdhi yo isaga un bay u
daran tahay. Ilaahay wuxu yidhi what means:
"Those who break Allah's Covenant after ratifying it, and sever whaty Allah
has ordered to be joined (as regards Allahs' religion of Islamic Monotheism,
and to practise its laws on the earth also as regards keeping good relations
with kith and kin) and mischief on earth, it is they who are the losers." (Q
2:27)
> GURYAHOODA IYAGOO ALLE MEESHAAS KU CAABUDA, WAXAA SAXIIBKEY II SHEEGAY DHAWAAN
> IN
> XAMARAY KA JIRAAN MASAAJIDO BADAN OO KA KALA TIRSAN URURADDA SIDA WAAHAABI,
> ISLAAX,
> ITIXAAD, SUUFIYADA, AQWAANKA IYO KUWA KALE OO FARABADAN , HADABA WAXAA
> MEESHAAS KA
Haday waxaasi jiraan waa wax aan fiicnayn. Laakin bal taas ha lahubsado.
> CAD IN SOOMAALIDA XITAA DIINTA KU KALE TAGEEN OO ODEYGII SOOMAALI WAA GABLAN >
> OO XITAA ILMIHIIS WAX AY KU HESHIIYEEN MA JIRAAN.
Aniga sey cagligayga ila tahay in Muslimeen saa u kala fog in
ayan jirin. Bini adniga si diisaba wax kasta way buun buuniyaan.
Laga ba yaabe dad aan diinta rabin ama se aan aqoon in ay uyeeshan
doonayn in ay dadka walalaha ah isku dirayaan. Wadankana ko layba
aqoon yaraan badan way jirta. Maxaa jira Soomalida dad wax akhrista
ma aha. Wax bay dageestan kaliya. Marka misinformation ka way iska
badan tahay.
Waad mahadsan tahay in aad ra'yigaaga halkan ka soo jeedisay.
Waasalamantahay.
P.S.
If you can't read afsoomaligeega please let me know.
Abdidhoof
Bashir,
Before unswering to an article, maybe you should first try to understand it
completely.
This is what I said:
[ Now this one is to those Rigid-Head Islamists who don't get it, when I asked
"So, what is is this ?", I meant to ask about his (guleds') intentions, and I
say again "Guleed's INTENTIONS" of refering me to those Aayaats that
specifically dealt with the Hypocrites, and not the Koran, okey ? Insha-Allah,
now this should be clear to everyone's mind, and if not, to borrow a line
from hollywood, quite frankly my dear, I don't give a damn ! ]
And this is what your are saying I said:
---------------------------------------------------
, but then you go right ahead and say that
you "don't give a damn" about what brother Guled copied and pasted on this
thread...the Qura'n.
You tell him not to write the Qu'anic Ayaats; you keep telling him that he is
hiding "behind the Holy Koran" and you call this a "nonsense preaching"]
-------------------------------------------------------------
Now I am laughing, honestly, I am laughing because you keep saying that I said
all of the above, yet I am here in front of you, and saying to you that I did
not say any of those things, and this we call:
"JUG JUG MEESHAADA JOG"
Now, can you see the difference ?
I hope so, and if not, then well, I say to you tough luck.
On the other hand, are you a spokesperson for Guled ? He is the guy who out of
nowhere and without a reason called me a hypocrite, and he is the guy I would
really like to deal with on this part of the thread.
faadhyoon
yesterday munafiq at the time of the prophet peace upon him is today zindiiq
by other word there's no nifaq in our time only kufr and zandaqa and
according what he is writing this man abdidhoof he is kafir zandiiq murtad
his blood halaal for muslims and for fatima what she is saying is very
dangerous , the shar'a of allah is more expensive than blood of all the
people on earth .
I read this man's kufr and ignored so many time but he is posting more
kufr, the web is the not right place to answer him, inshaallah the muslims
will cut off his head in this life to stop him because he knows that isalm
ia the true diin of allah walakin naftiisa ayaa khabiithad ah (qurun) oo
diiday nuur ilaahay ka dib markay ogaatay.and here after he will hell fire
aamiin mean time let him enjoy his short time in westen kufr freedom.
Guled A. Mohamed wrote in message <6vukeg$e...@freenet-news.carleton.ca>...>> Abdidhoof (abdi...@aol.com) writes:
fat...@ppp.nasionet.net
Once a bedouin came to the Prophet asking something. The Prophet
granted his request then said, 'Have I treated you well?' The
Beduion said, 'No, and you have not been kind either!'
The Muslims with the Prophet felt very angry and wanted to punish
the man. The Prophet, however, motioned them to leave him alone.
He then went into his house, sent for the man and gave him somnething
over and above his orginal request. He then asked him, 'Have I treated
you well?' The man said, 'Yes, indeed. May Allah reward you well for
you are a good kinsman and a good tribesman'.
The Prophet then said to him, 'When you said what you said you made my
companions feel angry with you. If you like to tell them what you have
just told me so that they would have nothing against you.'
The man said, 'I will'.
The following day he came and the Prophet said,
'This bedouin said yesterday what you have heard. We gave him more
and he claims now that he is satisfied. Is that so?' the bodouin said,
'Yes indeed! May Allah reward you well, for you are a good kinsman
and a good tribesman.'
The Prophet then said to his companions,
'My affair with this bedouin is similar to that of a man who had
a she-camel which ran loose. Other people rushed to try to catch her
but they managed only to make her run wild. The owner then appealed
to them to let him alone with his she-camel as he was gentler to her
and knew her temperament. The owner then went towards her, having
picked something to feed her with. He approached her gently until
she responded and sat down. He then saddled her and mounted her back.
Had I left you alone when the man said what he said, you would
probably have killed him and he would have gone to Hell."
End of story.
Now brothers and sisters, I hope the above will teach us to
deal more gently with each other. Even if one is on the
wrong, this story teaches us that it's better to tackle
such a person in a humane manner, for the goal is to win hearts.
And the Messenger of Allah was the Best Model. He won
hearts, not by the sword, but by virtue of his mercy.
The story is copied from Sayyid Qutb's book:
'In the Shade of the Qur'an.' page: 143
Wassalam
bashir ali
Abdidhoof, this is what I understood
and see in this thread:
I understand that brother Guled's post
says nothing about you being a hypocrite.
I understand that all brother Guled
wrote(or as you prefer"copied and pasted")
in this thread was the Qura'n and you
called this a "nonsense preaching". You
said you "don't give a damn" and you also
accused him of hiding "behind the Holy Koran".
Brother, Abdidhoof, As far as I understand,
brother Guled did not call you a hypocrite
and he, himself, said that he did not.
Therefore, there is no way that you can
read the "INTENTIONS" of brother Guled
unless, of course, you are able to read
minds.
Bashir.
Abdidhoof
So you want to kill me, huh ? you stupid bastard, forget about the rest of the
Muslim people, just tell me where you are and I promise you I will be there,
only you and me, then we will see who kills whom.
bashir ali
Allah says: "And if two factions of the believers
fight, you should make peace between them. But if
one of them continues to do wrong to the other, fight
the transgressor until they return to Allah's command.
If they then do so, make a just peace between them for
verily Allah loves the just ones"
In this ayah, the basic principles for dealing with
violent disputes among Muslims are laid down.
The first step should be an attempt to establish
peace between them without any consideration of
the causes or which side it started first.
Sides should not be taken even if the wrong party
is identified, but instead both factions should
be encouraged to immediately cease the hostilities
and make peace on the basis of the Qur'an and suna.
In this respect, Imam Bukhari has reported a hadith
on the authority of Ahnaf bin Qays. He says:
"I was going to help this man"
Abu Bakar asked me "where are you going"?
I replied "I'm going to help that person"
He said "go back for I heard Rasuululah(saw)
saying "when two Muslims fight each other
with their swords, both the murder as well
as the murdered will go to the hell fire"
I said "O Allah's messenger, it is all right
for the murderer to go to hell fire, but what
about the murdered one"?
Rasuululah(saw) replied he surely had the
intention to kill his Muslim brother"
Our prophet emphasized the importance of stopping
aggression by quoting to his companions a well-known
slogan:
"Help your brother whether he is the oppressor or the
oppressed"
The sahabi Anis was surprised at the prophet's statement
so he asked "O messenger of Allah, helping him when he
is oppressed is clear but how can I help him when he is
the oppressor"?
The prophet(saw) replied "you help him by preventing him
from oppressing"
Once the rebellious is brought under submission, the
third step is that peace should be made between the
two sides justly, regardless of the fact that one
faction initially refused peace negotiation.
One time, the prophet was asked to visit
Abdullah bin Ubayy, the leader of the hypocrites.
So the prophet sat out on a donkey followed
by a group of Muslims on foot.
When the prophet(saw) neared Abdullah bin
Ubayy, Abdullah mockingly said
"get away from me, for by Allah, the smell
of your donkey has hurt me"
One of the prophet's companions from the
ansar replied:
"by Allah, Allah's messenger's donkey smells
better than you do"
Some of the Abdullah's tribe men got angry
and so did the companions of the prophet
and fist fight broke out between them.
As a result, the ayah "And if two faction
of the believers fight, you should make
peace between them" was revealed.
Peace was subsequently made between the
two groups and sahaba returned to their homes.
Although the prophet(saw) and many of his
sahaba were well aware of Abdullah's hypocrisy,
the prophet refused the sahaba to inflict harm n him.
In fact, after a similar incident, Omar bin
Khattab requested that he be allowed to go and
execute Abdullah bin Ubayy, but the prophet did
not allow him to do so explaining that if he did
so, the enemies of Islam would remark that Muhammad
is murdering his followers and thereby discourage
others from accepting Islam.
The implications of this ayah clarifies the
general meaning of a well known hadith reported
by Ibn Masood in which the prophet(saw) said:
"Cursing a Muslim is a sin and fighting him is DISBELIEF"
In the ayah above and the hadith, Allah and His
messenger refer to both sides as believers, eventhough
they are fighting each other.
Thus, the phrase "fighting him is disbelief" means
that fighting him is an act of KUFR, that is fighting
a believer is what a disbeliever would do.
The prophet(saw) is comparing him to a disbeliever with
respect to his outer actions and not his inner belief.
In fact, Imam Bukhari and some scholars used this ayah
as proof that a believer does not fall into disbelief no
matter how great his sin may be, with the exception of
shirk.
Similarly, the general meaning of the ayah and
who ever does not JUDGE BY WHAT ALLAH has revealed
are disbelievers was interpreted by the sahabi Ibn
Abbas when questioned about it.
He said:
"It is not the disbelief that you imagine; it is a form
of disbelief..less than disbelief"
Consequently, scholars have divided KURF
into two categories.
Kufr camaliya: disbelief in action.
Kurf qalbi: disbelief in heart
A Muslim may do acts, usually associated
with disbelievers, like fornicating, drinking,
stealing, lying..etc and thus be like
a kufir...in his outer actions, but such acts
in themselves do not automatically expel him
from the ranks of believers, until accompanied
by the inner denial of Allah's existence, or the
validity of His Laws, will expel him from the folds
of Islam.
Ahmed Barre
faadhyoon <Fad...@alphalink.com.au> wrote in article
<702o8c$rth$1...@news.alphalink.com.au>..
>he is writing this man abdidhoof he is kafir zandiiq murtad
> his blood halaal for muslims and for fatima what she is saying is very
> dangerous , the shar'a of allah is more expensive than blood of all the
> people on earth .
war bal amrkan ilaahey fiiraya!!! sowtaan meeshiiba noqotay meelo
qolyaha xag jiraa ku dadka ku afduubaan!!
This is a clear Wahabism bigotry and their self-styled attitude of judging
others if others don't agree with their bigotry Islamic brand, Wahabism.
Helooooooo! so-called Faadhyoon, who on earth you think you are when you
are judging someone else's faith? Are you Allah-chosen judge on the bunch?
Man, you are a complete disgrace to the Islam and your Wahabia cult.
Please go and try to learn more. For sure, this kind of bigotry doesn't
take you any farther. In Islamic history, it never happened such kind of
intolerance and narrow mindedness. It is you, so-called faaydhoon, and your
born-again cult, wahabia, that are giving the wrong impression of Islam.
This cult always reminds me the oppression of ancient Church religious
zealotism. If abdidhoof is kufar or not it is up to him and his Allah .
And it is a grave mistake for you to judge him as kufar while he is saying
he is not.
waa duni ninkii sadar bartaa sababi diinkiiye
-
-------Sayind Mohamed Abdile Hassan-----
-
[In uriidu ila-al islah ma astada'atu.Wamaa tawfiiqii ilaa bilaah]
Ahmed Yassin
.
fat...@ppp.nasionet.net
>Bashir worte:
>
> Allah says: "And if two factions of the believers
> fight, you should make peace between them. But if
> one of them continues to do wrong to the other, fight
> the transgressor until they return to Allah's command.
> If they then do so, make a just peace between them for
> verily Allah loves the just ones"
>
> In this ayah, the basic principles for dealing with
> violent disputes among Muslims are laid down.
>
> The first step should be an attempt to establish
> peace between them without any consideration of
> the causes or which side it started first.
>
> Sides should not be taken even if the wrong party
> is identified, but instead both factions should
> be encouraged to immediately cease the hostilities
> and make peace on the basis of the Qur'an and suna.
Praise be to Allah, Islam has all the answers.
For every situation there's answer. Impoverished
are indeed those who look for answers elsewhere.
Brother Bashir, thank you very much for the
beautiful reminders. May Allah reward you for the
beautiful work your doing for the community.
I have actually, mailed your post to me, for future
reference, inshaAllah. Should there arise
more misunderstanding among the brotherhood, I am sure
the same ayat and wisdom will come in handy,
for peace-making. I hope the warring brothers
(not only on this site, but also everywhere)
should give a few minutes of their time to ponder
on the ayat of Allah and the wisdom contained in the
words of our beloved Messenger, salla allahu alaihi wassalam.
Islam is peace. The greetings of the believers is 'peace'
The greetings of angels is 'peace'. The greetings of the
people of paradise will be 'peace'. The prophets of Allah
are greeted with peace. Allah's greeting to the people
of janna will be 'peace'.
What a shame that we Muslims have missed the whole point
of peaceful Islam.
Wassalam (peace)
Guled A. Mohamed
Assalaamu Caleykum
To : sis. Fatima and bro. Bashir
Jazakumu Allaha Khayran for your effort and the time you give to remind us
the Word of Allah and the examples of the our beloved Prophet (salal
Allahu caleyhi wassalim). They are great examples which we can take great
lessons from them. And also is a worthwhile to mention at this time
because as you can see some discussion reach some times an awkward point
that no one couldn't predict. Thank you again.
( Allaha ha idiin ka abaal mariyo anagana ha naga dhigo kuwa ka fa'idesta
oo ku camal fal. Aamiiin.)
To : Abdidhoof
I told you, I am telling you I didn't call you hypocrite. ( you couldn't
prove the otherwise)
Now you want know what was MY INTENTION, I will tell you what was my
intention but please don't ask me tomorrow to explain other discovery.
My Intention is related to my Big Goal which is to Promote Islam and to
bring many people as I can ( Insha Allah), and never and never is my
intention to create any division between believers. So my intention of
mentioning Qur'an ( AL-MUNAFAQIIN) was to send you a signal (PLEASE READ
THIS AYAH) which reminds you that you are walking on a minefield. And I
was hoping you getting out from minefield and say thanks to me. But
unfortunately you completely misunderstood me, ( haddeyneen baroorta
orgiga ka wayneen) from that point on, you know what happened.
After all the insult I liked one " Hiding behind the Qur'an" This is a
really compliment for me thank you.
Wassalaamu Caleykum Waraxmatullaah
Mohamed Foore
Ahmed Barre <aya...@intergate.bc.ca> wrote in
article <01bdf719$0a485ec0$39adc2cf@user>...
> war bal amrkan ilaahey fiiraya!!! sowtaan
meeshiiba noqotay meelo
> qolyaha xag jiraa ku dadka ku afduubaan!!
>
> This is a clear Wahabism bigotry and their
self-styled attitude of judging
> others if others don't agree with their
bigotry Islamic brand, Wahabism.
> Helooooooo! so-called Faadhyoon, who on earth
you think you are when you
> are judging someone else's faith? Are you
Allah-chosen judge on the bunch?
> Man, you are a complete disgrace to the Islam
and your Wahabia cult.
Mr. Ahmed Yasin.
As a Muslims our religion has ordered us if two
brothers disagree we should endeavor to reconcile
them in an appropriate manner until they settle
their differences.
No Body is entitled to judge Mr. Abdidhoof the
secular, as a kafir, despite the fact he has
committed blasphemy.
It is not the way of ahlu Sunnah to judge a
person as a kufr without thorough investigation
and finding out what made that person to come up
which such actions.
Mr. Ahmed you used the word WAHABIA, this word is
used by Mubtadi'eens (like Rafida), to discredit
the ahlu Sunnah. On other hand you supported a
outspoken secular person. therefore I am really
confused on what you stand for.
Can you come out of the mist and tell us/me what
kind of interpretation you hold.
--
Mohamed Foore
Mohamed Foore
Ahmed Barre <aya...@intergate.bc.ca> wrote in
article <01bdf719$0a485ec0$39adc2cf@user>...
> war bal amrkan ilaahey fiiraya!!! sowtaan meeshiiba noqotay meelo
> qolyaha xag jiraa ku dadka ku afduubaan!!
>
> This is a clear Wahabism bigotry and their self-styled attitude of judging
> others if others don't agree with their bigotry Islamic brand, Wahabism.
> are judging someone else's faith? Are you Allah-chosen judge on the bunch?
> Man, you are a complete disgrace to the Islam
and your Wahabia cult.
Mr. Ahmed Yasin.
As a Muslims our religion has ordered us if two brothers disagree we should
endeavor to reconcilethem in an appropriate manner until they settle
their differences.
No Body is entitled to judge Mr. Abdidhoof thesecular, as a kafir,
despite the fact he has committed blasphemy.
It is not the way of ahlu Sunnah to judge aperson as a kufr without thorough
investigationand finding out what made that person to come up
which such actions.
Mr. Ahmed you used the word WAHABIA, this word is used by Mubtadi'eens
(like Rafida), to discredithe ahlu Sunnah. On other hand you supported a
Ahmed Barre
People can fight with stones, guns, words or whatever but judging someone
and calling him kufar, while he is saying he is a Muslim, is another
cause. i call it religious presecution. If you read Faydhon's posting, you
will see that he already religiously prosecuted this guy (abdidhoof).
And also if you read my last posting, you will not find anywhere i
supported Abdidhoof though i have rights to do so when i think he is right,
no matter whether he is kufar or pious Muslim.
About Wahabia, I think you have a long way to go if you think Wahabia is
only Ehlu sunah Wal jamaa. I thik you have to know that Wahabias are
hurting Islam more than they are helping. they can't get along with any
other Muslim unless he/she believes their narrow Islamic concept.
They create religpous violence among Muslim Commmunity. Especially, these
Somali wahabias create in the heart of fear, antimidation, inconfiedence
of Somalis. they only select the ayah of punishment and promote hatred
among commuity. They attack every outspoken individuals. Instead of looikng
up and seeing how islamic world is dominated by judo-christian world and
trying to free the Muslims from this western yoke, they narrowed the
intire Islamic duty to only some small stuffs like GROWING SHE- GOAT
BEARDS, WEARING NEARLY SHORT PANTS, EMPHASIZING TIP-TO-TOE HIJABS,
INVESTIGATING OTHER MUSLIMS' S DEEDS.
They are wasting their time, wondering if Barre's great grandma is still
having her "tusbax'", if his young sister is wearing " niqab", if his
father is saying " usali faradal ..." in his prayesrs.
About where i stand ? huh-huhh-huh is that really matters? or is it kind
of INVESTIGATING MY DEEDS? for simplicity, let us say i am niether belong
to wahabia nor any other cult. In fact , i am belong to the great Islam.
But when it comes to cultism and segratriansm, i am freelance and
free-roaming Muslim.
[In uriidu ila-al islah ma astada'atu.Wamaa tawfiiqii ilaa bilaah]
Ahmed Yassin
Mohamed Foore <Mora...@thornlietafe.wa.edu.au> wrote in article
<01bdf8e7$be1198c0$a306...@mod6112.aus.com>...
>
>
> Ahmed Barre <aya...@intergate.bc.ca> wrote in
> article <01bdf719$0a485ec0$39adc2cf@user>...
> > war bal amrkan ilaahey fiiraya!!! sowtaan
> meeshiiba noqotay meelo
> > qolyaha xag jiraa ku dadka ku afduubaan!!
> >
> > This is a clear Wahabism bigotry and their
> self-styled attitude of judging
> > others if others don't agree with their
> bigotry Islamic brand, Wahabism.
> > Helooooooo! so-called Faadhyoon, who on earth
> you think you are when you
> > are judging someone else's faith? Are you
> Allah-chosen judge on the bunch?
> > Man, you are a complete disgrace to the Islam
> and your Wahabia cult.
>
Abdidhoof
Moracase wrote:
>No Body is entitled to judge Mr. Abdidhoof thesecular, as a kafir,
>despite the fact he has committed blasphemy.
------------------------------------------------
Despite ? fact ? blasphemy ? with all due respect, sir, I think you should
research the issue a little deeper.
This thread was about a hypothetical question, Ms. Fatima asked "Would it be a
sin.." if all the Muslims in the Horn of Africa were to unite under the banner
of Islam, I answered the question, and I imagined a hypothetical scenario in
which blood was spilled over the dream, in a war between the Muslims and the
non-Muslims of the Horn of Africa, and then I asked wether the Dream was worth
the blood ? Fatima's question was about a hypothetical
action, my answer was a possible reaction in yet a hypothetical scenario.
Tthis guy saying that my blood is halaal for all the Muslims, Halaal.., like
if they were all vampires who suck other people's blood, but whats even more
interesting is the cold silence from the part of those whom I have come to
expect to always be the "defenders" of the Faith, so I now wonder, does it
mean that they also share with Fadyoon's judgement ?
From all of this, one thing has come clear to my mind, and it's that most of
the Islamists are not actually true Muslims but are in fact potentially even
worse and more dangerous than the warlords.
Just look at how quick they are in handing out the capital punishment !! Kill
him ! Cut his head !! His blood is Halaal to all Muslims !! and worse, like if
they have become to own a patent for murder and execution.
If thats not enough, then listen to the silence of the rest, they could not
speak against Fadyoon, perhaps because he is one of the gang, a member of the
brotherhood, Us against Them, and this leads me to the issue of Justice, which
they have also failed miserably.
As a reaction, I and most of the Somalis now know the shape of our next enemy,
it will come in the form of blood thirsty gang of fascists, claiming to be our
brothers and sisters in Islam, but fortunately we have learned in advance that
this isn't true, that these are not our brothers and sisters, that their brand
of Islam is not compatible with our Somali Culture and Tradition.
Oh yeah, we can be good Muslims and keep our Culture and Tradition at the same
time.
Oh no, we are Muslims and there is nothing wrong with our culture, but its your
brand of Islam that really sucks !
Abdidhoof
A Muslim in Solitude
A Secular in Outlook.
Mohamed O. Musa
Abdidhoof,
I confronted with Faadhyoon earlier when he declared Sh. Sha'rawi (may
the mercy of Allah be upon his soul) a KAFIR. When I posted my reaction
to his remarks and pointed out that he did not know the person he was
judging and that calling people KUFFAR (kafirs) was a dangerous business
that could drive him (Faadhyoon) out of the fold of Islam if he were
wrong, he came back with even stronger accusations (he called me too a
sceptic and a student of Sh. M. Guuleed). When I challenged him to
prove his allegations, he simply disappeared. Since then, I did not
take Faadhyoon serious.
I am sure if you followed the threat titled "Sh. Sha'rawi, Rahimahu
Allaah", you would understand the silence of at least some of those who
promote Islam in the cave. I personally do not agree with his accusation
that you are a kafir and from what I understand you are a muslim.
As I remarked in those exchanges under the abovementioned title, Imam
Shafi'i (may Allah's merci be upon his soul) used to say that if he
could find ninety nine reasons to judge someone a kafir and one single
reason to judge that person a muslim, he would go along with the one
single reason and declare that person a muslim. The reason is that the
risk of being mistaken in judging other people's faith is the greatest
of all risks, for if mistaken in such a judgement, one is clearly
out of the fold of the islam as our prophet (may the peace and blessings
of Allah be upon him) taught us in an authentic hadith. When I
brought these points to Faadhyoon's attention, he simply ignored them.
So my advice to anyone is: Ignore Faadhyoon; he contradicts the teachings
of Allah (Glorious is He) and our beloved Prophet (may peace and
blessings of Allah be upon him). What do you expect someone who
considers great scholars, like Sh. Sha'rawi, a KAFIR thinks the rest of
us!
Faadhyoon's understanding of Islam does not represent the mainstream
islamic revivalist movement, either.
Besides that, there is an issue which I wish to draw to your attention to.
If I read you correctly, you wrote some time ago that you were secular, or
to be precise you signed "Abdidhoof, the secular" with your post. I did
not know at the time which way to interpret it as I did not read all the
articles in that thread, but it seemed to me that you might not know the
fact that "secularism" is inconsistent with the islamic faith. But before I
make any judgement (as to what you really meant by that signiture) would
you be kind enough to explain what your intention was?
--
Mohamed,
Nabadgelyo.
Abdidhoof
If Islam demands the rule of Shar'ia, then for sure Secularism is indeed
inconsistent with the Islamic faith.
The problem I am having with this situation is that the Somali Islamists ( this
is my personal opinion) are not yet ready for the duty of running a nation such
as that of ours, they seem to have one big appetite for blood and they are
always quick to justify it in the name of Allah.
As a Somali, I know what war is all about, I know about death and blood in the
hand of another Somali, I have seen it, I have experienced it, and will not
have respect for those who threaten me or others with it, not even in the name
of the Almighty.
The Somali Islamists must understand that they cannot use "Death" and the "Fear
of God" as a tool for political gain, they must understand that we have lost
our Fear, we have seen enough of that stuff and have learned about it, and
learned that Allah needs not to be "Feared" but insted is to be "Loved", we
have learned that Fear is Evil, and those who use it are also Evil.
So what I am saying to them is to cut the crap, quit talking about beheading
this.., and beheading that.., because they can't do that to nobody ! so I say
to them to cut all that nonsense right here, right now !!
I believe Allah the Almighty will forgive me
for not being consistent with Islam for this brief period of extreme
situations, I pray my Allah to forgive me, for I see that someone is trying to
corrupt my Islamic faith for political gains and I for one have decided to
confront these lost souls and question each and everyone of their false words.
They can call me a "Murtad" a "Kufri" or whatever, but I know who I am, I face
my creator alone in quite solitude, five times a day, every day, and I do it
without their cheap sermons.
All I am trying to say is that I don't want these so-called Somali Islamists
to become the political leadership of Somalia, because I suspect they lack the
mental flexibility that is expected or even required of one who strives to
become a leader in the field of Politics, and the skill in the tools of running
a nation, such as the ability to tolerate a dialogue, make compromises, have
patiance and accept defeat.
Nabad.
Mohamed Foore
Abdidhoof <abdi...@aol.com> wrote in article
<19981019055729...@ng14.aol.com>...
>
>
> Moracase wrote:
> >No Body is entitled to judge Mr. Abdidhoof thesecular, as a kafir,
> >despite the fact he has committed blasphemy.
> ------------------------------------------------
>
> Despite ? fact ? blasphemy ? with all due respect, sir, I think you should
> research the issue a little deeper.
> This thread was about a hypothetical question, Ms. Fatima asked "Would it be a
> sin.." if all the Muslims in the Horn of Africa were to unite under the banner
> of Islam, I answered the question, and I imagined a hypothetical scenario in
> which blood was spilled over the dream, in a war between the Muslims and the
> non-Muslims of the Horn of Africa, and then I asked wether the Dream was worth
> the blood ? Fatima's question was about a hypothetical
> action, my answer was a possible reaction in yet a hypothetical scenario.
Mr Abdidhoof, If we shade light to your previous postings under the thread, Will
Somali seculars and islamists ever co-exist in Somalia? including this, one can see
and conclude that your ideas is far from Islamic teaching.
This means if we closely scrutinize what you have conveyed to us, one can derive
that includes some points which under the Islamic theology can be said it is path to
KUFR.
This does not mean you are Kafir, Because it is unislamic to say somebody who is
saying I am Muslim A kafir without clearly investigating what made the person to
utter such word.
Dear Abdi there is something which one says and assumes as a miner thing can toss him
out of the religion.
Finally let us all Learn our religion deeply, so that we can understand and
appreciate it.
--
~Mohamed Foore~
Mohamed O. Musa
Mudane Abdidhoof,
Islam demands the rule of the Sharia to be the law of the muslim
society. Here are few clear verses:
"It is not fitting for a [male] believer or a [female] believer,
when a matter has been decided by Allah and His Messenger, to
have any option about their decision: If anyone disobeys Allah
and His Messenger, is indeed on a clearly wrong path." 33:36
"... And those who do not judge by what Allah has sent down are the
disbelievers (kaafiruun)." 5:44
"... And those who do not judge by what Allah has sent down are the
transgressors (zaalimuun)." 5:45
"... And those who do not judge by what Allah has sent down are the
[perverse] law-breakers (faasiquun)." 5:47
...
There are more, but I am sure that those few will be sufficient to
convince any believer. If you need to know more about the relevance of
these verses to the contention that the rule of Shari'a is obligatory
upon the muslim society, please refer to Tafseer of Ibn Katheer or The
Zilaal by Sayid Qudb.
A point I wish to draw your attention to is that, where do you look to
find out how to make wudu correctly, or requirements of islamic
marriage? Do follow secular rules in a marriage contract? Or does it
make any sense to talk about secular marriage (between two muslims)? I
am sure you will agree that the answer is no. Then isn't it absurd to
ignore the law of Allah in other aspects of life where there is such a
law?
Besides that, I wish to comment few points that you raised in your
earlier reply. One of these points was whether the Somali Islamist is
trustworthy enough to be entrusted with the nation's affairs. This
point is very relevant and logical. I agree that the Somali
people were deceived many times under number of attractive banners and the
consequences were severe. It seems logical then that they
will want to examine more thoroughly the next candidate group, regardless
of their banners. The somali Islamist has to
understand this psychology and prove (by his deeds) that he will not
exploit the trust to his own (personal) advantage. If he does not do
this, and the people reject the Law of Allah because of his
untrustworthiness, he will certainly share the blame with them in the
day of Judgement.
Another point is that the Islamist uses "fear of God" or "death" as a
means to political goals. May be I am wrong, but you sound that you
either had little interaction with serious Islamists or are influenced by
Fadhyon. Allah, teaching His Messenger how to conduct the business of
calling people to His path, said,
"Invite to the way of your Lord with wisdom and beautiful preaching,
and argue with them in ways that are best and most gracious: for your
Lord knows best, who has strayed from His path, and who receive
guidence." 16:125
Wisdom and beautiful preaching were the means the Messenger of Allah used
to win the hearts of millions, not accusations, threatening or killing,
as even many non-muslims acknowledge.
Finally, Islam is open to all of us. It does not belong to the Islamist
any more than it does to any other muslim or any other person who wants
to follow it. (And as you may know, even many of those who made greatest
contributions to islam and muslims were either themselves kuffar at some
point of time or the decendents of such.) It is, therefore, upto us whether
want to get our share of it or not.
>>Faadhyoon's understanding of Islam does not represent the mainstream
>>islamic revivalist movement, either.
>>
>>Besides that, there is an issue which I wish to draw to your attention to.
>>If I read you correctly, you wrote some time ago that you were secular, or
>>to be precise you signed "Abdidhoof, the secular" with your post. I did
>>not know at the time which way to interpret it as I did not read all the
>>articles in that thread, but it seemed to me that you might not know the
>>fact that "secularism" is inconsistent with the islamic faith. But before I
>>make any judgement (as to what you really meant by that signiture) would
>>you be kind enough to explain what your intention was?
>>
>>
>>
>
>
--
Mohamed,
Nabadgelyo.
bashir ali
> If Islam demands the rule of Shar'ia, then
> for sure Secularism is indeed inconsistent
> with the Islamic faith.
Abdidhoof, Islam teaches this:
"Those who do not rule by what Allah has
revealed are indeed the Kafiroon". Qur'an:(5:44)
Therefore, what I don't understand is why a Muslim
would call himself a secular(non-religouis) and then
*preach* or *promote* or *demand* a rule that is
*inconsistent* with the Words that Allah revealed.
> The problem I am having with this situation is that
> the Somali Islamists ( this is my personal opinion) are
> not yet ready for the duty of running a nation such as
> that of ours, they seem to have one big appetite for
> blood and they are always quick to justify it in the name of Allah.
> As a Somali, I know what war is all about, I know about death and blood in the
> hand of another Somali, I have seen it, I have experienced it, and will not
> have respect for those who threaten me or others with it, not even in the name
> of the Almighty.
It is true that we do not have Somali Muslims
who can lead us to an Islamic run government
right now in Somalia, but this does not mean
that there are not Muslims who are *ready* for
an Islamic government in their lives.
It is also true that we do not have Somali secularists
who can even lead us to their brand of government in
Somalia right now, but the former Somali governments
we had experienced in Somali were non religious governments.
These non-religious governmets spitted out lot of Somali *blood*
on all over the country in the name of sacrilegious movements .
> The Somali Islamists must understand that they cannot
> use "Death" and the "Fear of God" as a tool for political
> gain, they must understand that we have lost our Fear, we have
> seen enough of that stuff and have learned about it, and learned
> that Allah needs not to be "Feared" but insted is to be "Loved", we
> have learned that Fear is Evil, and those who use it are also Evil.
> So what I am saying to them is to cut the crap, quit talking about beheading
> this.., and beheading that.., because they can't do that to nobody ! so I say
> to them to cut all that nonsense right here, right now !!
First of all, Allah has no needs...but we really need Allah
and we should fear Him as He should be feared.
As I mentioned above, the only Somali political
governments that ever ruled in Somalia were the
sacrilegious ones(the non-Islamic) and they were the
ones which resulted thousands and thousands of Somali
"deaths and they used *fear* as a tool to govern Somali
people for many years.
> All I am trying to say is that I don't want these
> so-called Somali Islamists to become the political
> leadership of Somalia,
And many Somali people are also saying that they do not want
the so called secularist to become the political leardership
of Somalia.
> because I suspect they lack the mental flexibility that
> is expected or even required of one who strives to become
> a leader in the field of Politics, and the skill in the tools
> of running a nation, such as the ability to tolerate a dialogue,
> make compromises, have patiance and accept defeat.
Abdidhoof, as a secularist, do you, yourself, or other Somali
secularists think that we(Somalis) can trust you with our lives
as we had trusted our former secularists who ruled Somalia
before you?
Do you guys have what it takes to run a nation and do you
have leardership skills or you will be, as I suspect, establishing
what other secular governments are doing in Turkey and Algeria
when they suppress their people's voice and are you, Abdidhoof,
going to execute us(Muslims) by using your tools, the secular tools,
or your leardership skills, I mean your military junta?
Bashir
fat...@ppp.nasionet.net
> Mohamed O. Musa wrote:
> Islam demands the rule of the Sharia to be the law of the muslim
> society. Here are few clear verses:
>
> "It is not fitting for a [male] believer or a [female] believer,
> when a matter has been decided by Allah and His Messenger, to
> have any option about their decision: If anyone disobeys Allah
> and His Messenger, is indeed on a clearly wrong path." 33:36
> "... And those who do not judge by what Allah has sent down are the
> disbelievers (kaafiruun)." 5:44
>
> "... And those who do not judge by what Allah has sent down are the
> transgressors (zaalimuun)." 5:45
>
> "... And those who do not judge by what Allah has sent down are the
> [perverse] law-breakers (faasiquun)." 5:47
When Allah, (SWT) is Himself calling those who refuse to 'govern' by
His Law as being not only 'on a wrong path', but also as 'kaafiruun', as
'zaalimuun', and 'faasiquun', I now wonder what will be the state of
those who submissivly allow to be ruled over by such people, the
'kaafiruun,' the 'zaalimuun' and the 'faasiquun'? Won't they also have
a share in the sins of their leaders?
Also, sometime back, I read a hadith (I think), to this effect that,
if people try to rule by other than the Sharia of Allah, such
people will have nothing but failures in their form of government.
Does anyone know of this Hadith?
And is there another Hadith (hadith qudsi?) to this effect that when
a society is unjust,Allah (SWT) will choose an unjust leader for such
a society?
Mohamed Foore
Dear Bashiir
Akhii Maxaad ula jeeddaa (It is true that we do not have Somali Muslims
who can lead us to an Islamic run government right now in Somalia)
Fadlan Bal iku day in aad Balbalaadhiso waxaad ula jeeddo arrinkaa.Raalli iga ahow.
..............
~Mohamed Foore~
Abdidhoof
Fatima wrote:
>Also, sometime back, I read a hadith (I think), >to this effect that,if people
try to rule by other >than the Sharia of Allah, such people will have >nothing
but failures in their form of >government.
>Does anyone know of this Hadith?
Lying is un-Islamic, Truth has no Religion,
the above Haddiith (if it exists) has failed the test of Time !!
Anyway I'd rather not associate this kind of "mindless talk" with the eternal
wisdom of Islam, because according to my experience, the most stable
governments in this "living world" are the ones that are ruled by the Seculars.
But then I am not getting this ? I mean you are a Somali, a Muslim who chose to
voluntarily live in a non-Muslim country with a Secular government, you have
peace and stability, nobody is asking you to abandon your Islamic faith or
else, and there is no civil war, not even social instability, yet all you can
foresee and hope for that country is failure after failure after failure....
Your justification for doing this ? Because you "think" you read a Haddith that
said so...", and you now you are even looking for some of these people you call
"brothers" or "sisters" to enforce your expectations.
This is Unjust and by extension also so Un-Islamic, therefore I might as well
ask you this:
Are you guys taking these Haddiiths like a drug ?
bashir ali
> Dear Bashiir
> Akhii Maxaad ula jeeddaa (It is true that we do not have Somali Muslims
> who can lead us to an Islamic run government right now in Somalia)
> Fadlan Bal iku day in aad Balbalaadhiso waxaad ula jeeddo arrinkaa.Raalli iga ahow.
Walaal, Mohamed Foore, ujeedadeeyda waxay tahay oo *obvious*
ah in maanta la joogo ay san jirin "Somali Muslims who can
lead us to an Islamic run government in Somalia", and if there
are Somali Muslim leaders in Somalia, they are not effective or
visible(at least, I have not known or seen them) and the *obvious*
fact is this: If we had Somali Muslim leaders in Somalia now and
before, who could lead us, we would not have in this mess we Somalis
find in ourselves.
Bashir
Ahmed Barre
God is love? isn't that Christian based theory? Islam teaches BEYNA AL
KHAWF WA RAJAA, which means "expect the best and prepare for the worst" .
This means there must be fearing the worst may happen to you.This theory is
more realistic and practical than merely love and wishful of christian
based theory. It has nothing to do with the reality and the real world.
By the way i 've been wondering if u saw brother Garaar1 lately. I hear you
guys hang out together. And he has been missing for the last two weeks. U
see i am not saying u r Garaar1 like Mohamed O Muse stuff but i am
concerned about the whereabout that disappeared brother, Garaar1.
--
[In uriidu ila-al islah ma astada'atu.Wamaa tawfiiqii ilaa bilaah]
Ahmed Yassin
Abdidhoof <abdi...@aol.com> wrote in article
<19981021060433...@ng37.aol.com>...
> Mudane M. Musa,
>
> If Islam demands the rule of Shar'ia, then for sure Secularism is indeed
> inconsistent with the Islamic faith.
> The problem I am having with this situation is that the Somali Islamists
( this
> is my personal opinion) are not yet ready for the duty of running a
nation such
> as that of ours, they seem to have one big appetite for blood and they
are
> always quick to justify it in the name of Allah.
>
> As a Somali, I know what war is all about, I know about death and blood
in the
> hand of another Somali, I have seen it, I have experienced it, and will
not
> have respect for those who threaten me or others with it, not even in the
name
> of the Almighty.
>
> The Somali Islamists must understand that they cannot use "Death" and the
"Fear
> of God" as a tool for political gain, they must understand that we have
lost
> our Fear, we have seen enough of that stuff and have learned about it,
and
> learned that Allah needs not to be "Feared" but insted is to be "Loved",
we
> have learned that Fear is Evil, and those who use it are also Evil.
>
> So what I am saying to them is to cut the crap, quit talking about
beheading
> this.., and beheading that.., because they can't do that to nobody ! so I
say
> to them to cut all that nonsense right here, right now !!
>
> I believe Allah the Almighty will forgive me
> for not being consistent with Islam for this brief period of extreme
> situations, I pray my Allah to forgive me, for I see that someone is
trying to
> corrupt my Islamic faith for political gains and I for one have decided
to
> confront these lost souls and question each and everyone of their false
words.
>
> They can call me a "Murtad" a "Kufri" or whatever, but I know who I am, I
face
> my creator alone in quite solitude, five times a day, every day, and I do
it
> without their cheap sermons.
>
> All I am trying to say is that I don't want these so-called Somali
Islamists
> to become the political leadership of Somalia, because I suspect they
lack the
> mental flexibility that is expected or even required of one who strives
to
> become a leader in the field of Politics, and the skill in the tools of
running
> a nation, such as the ability to tolerate a dialogue, make compromises,
have
> patiance and accept defeat.
>
> Nabad.
agu...@hotmail.com
>
> They can call me a "Murtad" a "Kufri" or whatever, but I know who I am, I face
> my creator alone in quite solitude, five times a day, every day, and I do it
> without their cheap sermons.
It is un-Isamic to describe someone a Kufri unless s/he claims to be one. But
What exactly do you mean by "I do it without their cheap sermons"? Do you mean
that you will not pray with the rest of the Uma in a mosque?
A. gulled
fat...@ppp.nasionet.net
In article <362DFAAE...@worldnet.att.net>,
bas...@worldnet.att.net wrote:
> It is true that we do not have Somali Muslims
> who can lead us to an Islamic run government
> right now in Somalia, but this does not mean
> that there are not Muslims who are *ready* for
> an Islamic government in their lives.
I believe that the majority of Muslims the world over are more
than ready for justice. It's only a matter of coordinating minds and
hearts. The people of the Horn have specially suffered so much
injustice in the name of man-made rules for so long that the time
has come for them to speak out what they cherish in their hearts:
Submission to Allah Alone, for He alone is Power Supreme and He is
never false to His Promise.
>
> It is also true that we do not have Somali secularists
> who can even lead us to their brand of government in
> Somalia right now, but the former Somali governments
> we had experienced in Somali were non religious governments.
> These non-religious governmets spitted out lot of Somali *blood*
> on all over the country in the name of sacrilegious movements .
>
As the saying goes, 'once bitten twice shy'. And Somalis have
been bitten so many times that they have no choice but the
choice of Allah.
Wassalam
bashir ali
> Assalamu 'alaikum,
Wa calaykuma salaam.
> bashir wrote:
> > It is true that we do not have Somali Muslims
> > who can lead us to an Islamic run government
> > right now in Somalia, but this does not mean
> > that there are not Muslims who are *ready* for
> > an Islamic government in their lives.
fatima wrote;
> I believe that the majority of Muslims the
> world over are more than ready for justice.
> It's only a matter of coordinating minds and
> hearts. The people of the Horn have specially
> suffered so much injustice in the name of man-made
> rules for so long that the time has come for them to
> speak out what they cherish in their hearts:
Sister Fatima, you are right......we've suffered and
we are still suffuring because of the man-made laws we
have chosen for a government in Somalia and as you can
see now, we are crying for peace, all of us, including
the so called Somali seculars.
> > It is also true that we do not have Somali secularists
> > who can even lead us to their brand of government in
> > Somalia right now, but the former Somali governments in
> > that we had experienced were non religious governments.
> > These non-religious governmets spitted out lot of Somali *blood*,
> > on all over the country, in the name of sacrilegious movements .
> As the saying goes, 'once bitten twice shy'. And Somalis have
> been bitten so many times that they have no choice but the
> choice of Allah.
Sister Fatima, we have no choice, but majority
of us are still looking for or would like to setup
or choose for us the same governments that, not only
bit us, but actually shed real blood, mischief,
corruption, injustice and un-Islamic laws in the
country...so, there goes for us a "business as
usual" all over again.
Bashir.
Abdidhoof
The-guy-who-called-Abdidhoof-a-hypocrite- and-then-denied-it- once again wrote
to Abdidhoof:
>It is un-Isamic to describe someone a Kufri unless s/he claims to be one. But
>What exactly do you mean by "I do it without their cheap sermons"? Do you
>mean
>that you will not pray with the rest of the Uma in a mosque?
>
>A. gulled
>
And Abdidhoof laughs and then writes back to him:
Dear Guleed,
It all depends on what do you mean by "Ummah", you see, I think I don't like
you, because I think you owe me an apolology for calling me a hypocrite, which
I am not, so as long as you are not willing to give that apology to me, I will
never ever pray in the same Mosque with you.
Now, go ahead and from that little hat of yours, pull an "haddiith" thats
commanding me to pray with you in the same mosque :)
As for me, I think I owe an apology to Ms. Fatima, because I honestly think
that she is a good person and a true Muslim (nobody is perfect) and I have been
a little too "harsh" in the style of my criticism of her articles, so (with my
knees on the ground) I am saying to her:
"Dear Fatima, I am sorry, please forgive me."
See ? Am I not a better man than you ?
Unlike you, I am strong enough to admit my mistakes, because I know I am a
simple Human being, but I think you are an arrogant and uncreative man whose
only contribution to this forum is to:
A) Cut and then Paste other people's ideas on the walls of this cave.
B) called me a Hyprocrite and then denied.., and is still denying it.
C) Wondering about why am I not willing to pray in the same Mosque as him.
Nabad iyo qosol.
>
Abdidhoof
Hey yow, whatz up ?
Yes my dear, I am more interested in LOVE than FEAR, and this also applies to
the relation I have with my God.
FEAR is Evil, therefore I am not AFRAID of God, I love GOD.
The "worst", whatever you mean by it, may or may not happen to me, still why be
AFRAID of the inevitable ?
Anything thats done because of FEAR from retribution, good deeds included, has
not been done with honest sincerity, if you are practicing the Faith not
because of a true conviction, but because of FEAR from Hell, then I think you
and I belong to two seperate camps of thought.
Garaar1 and I hanging around together ? On this issue I will only answer to a
direct question, and don't be afraid, brother, just ask.
Guled A. Mohamed
Abdidhoof:
Starting with the Joke:
Hey, what is this? Is it a " GULEDPHOBIC"? :>
You are so fast with the words, but not fast enough to recognize the
differences of the two names.
I am Guled A. Not A. Gulled . Sorry starting with the joke, I felt an
obligation to do so before you continue any discussion with my " SAMI".
Let me congratulate with you Abdidhoof. Not so long ago you were calling
yourself " Abdidhoof the Secular" and you were out there to make bad
publicity of Sharia of Islam. And now we are hearing from you doing your
five daily prayers to Almighty. ( Alxamdullillaah). Thanks to all the
people who make great effort to tell you directly or indirectly the
importance of the Sharia being a Muslim.
By the way, lately I was so busy. But soon I will start ( Insha Allaah)
my preferred topic " Cut and Paste".
Don't look only cut and paste, please read carefully between the lines
and there are some articles which makes you understand the difference of
Gaddafi Arabism and what Islam stands.
Wassalaamu Caleykum Waraxmatullaah
Abdidhoof
The-guy -who- called-abdidhoof-a-hypocrite-and -then-denied-it once again wrote
to Abdidhoof:
>Let me congratulate with you Abdidhoof. Not so long ago you were calling
>yourself " Abdidhoof the Secular" and you were out there to make bad
>publicity of Sharia of Islam. And now we are hearing from you doing your
>five daily prayers to Almighty. ( Alxamdullillaah). Thanks to all the
>people who make great effort to tell you directly or indirectly the
>importance of the Sharia being a Muslim.
------------------------------------------------------
And a bewildered Abdidhoof writes back:
Dear A Guled A,
Sorry to tell you, but I think there is nothing you should congratulate me
about.
I can tell you one thing though, my discussion with the Islamists such as you,
Ina Da'ud and Fadhyoon has actually re-inforced my Secular outlook of the
world.
I am not surprised at your utter ignorance about the meaning of Secularism, but
I am more than glad to have enlightened you with the fact that even with my
firm Secular convinctions, I have for a long time prayed my Creator five times
a day and will always continue to do so.
The only news under the sun is you and your Fascist new gang on the block, the
so-called Islamist of Somalia, trying to sell us their political snake oil in
the name of Islam.
I shall always see you for what you and your ilk really are, nothing but one
among a multitude of opportunistic scavengers that emerged from the disaster
that has struck our country.
We the Seculars shalll always know that and will always treat you as such.
Nabad.
Abdidhoof (a Cool Secular and a True Muslim)
Abdirashid
> I shall always see you for what you and your ilk really are, nothing but one
> among a multitude of opportunistic scavengers that emerged from the disaster
> that has struck our country.
> We the Seculars shalll always know that and will always treat you as such.
Dear Abdidhoof:
According to many Qur'anic verses (some qouted by Mohamed O. Muse) and
numerous Ahadiiths, Islam demands the strict application Shari'a ( Islamic law).
Allah, the almighty, warns all muslims against slightest deviation from it (Shari'a).
Intuitively, on the other hand, it is not sensical to be a true muslim (worship God
alone) within the four walls of the mosques (five times a day) while praying, and
worship secularism in other daily activities (political, busness, etc). A true muslim
should be submissive to Allaah's demands, and nothing else.
As Secularism and Islam are totally "mutually exclusive", you may choose either of
them and abandon the rest.
Abdirashid
Abdidhoof
Abdirashid wrote:
------------------------
>Dear Abdidhoof:
>According to many Qur'anic verses (some qouted by Mohamed O. Muse) and
>numerous Ahadiiths, Islam demands the strict application Shari'a ( Islamic
>law).
>Allah, the almighty, warns all muslims against slightest deviation from it
>(Shari'a).
>
>Intuitively, on the other hand, it is not sensical to be a true muslim
>(worship God
>alone) within the four walls of the mosques (five times a day) while praying,
>and
>worship secularism in other daily activities (political, busness, etc). A
>true muslim
>should be submissive to Allaah's demands, and nothing else.
>
>As Secularism and Islam are totally "mutually exclusive", you may choose
>either of
>them and abandon the rest.
>
>Abdirashid
>
>
Dear Abdirashid,
I don't think it is a good idea for you or anybody else to try to corner me in
matters that concern religious affairs.
You see, things haven't been all right for me lately, I have experienced a lot
of evil coming to me and my family from people I thought were my Somali
"muslim" brothers and sisters and neighbors, and I am not talking about simple
words (..I'd rather not go into this any further..), so I can look you in the
eye without any remorse and tell you as a matter of fact, that I have seen
more reasons to abandon Islam than otherwise, but I haven't done it so far and
not because of fear of being "beheaded" by your gar-dheere friends ( they make
it sound so simple, isn't that scary ?), no, I am a Muslim because of choice
and faith.
So don't use this "either- or-else " stuff on me, 'cause I am on the brink of
loosing it all together, I am on the edge my dear friend, so unless you want
to lose me, please DON'T - PUSH - ME with these limiting choices.
I said I am a Muslim and a Secular at the same time, this was no joke or
ignorance, thats really what I am, and I can, and do face these thoughts with
Allah, the Almighty.
Nabad.
G ADAN
I would like to make a comment what my ourable gentalman agulled said
when he was talking about the kufr, Brother you said that it is Un
islamic to call someone Kaafir/murtid Unless that person claims to be
one, May I say bro that this sentence is quite wrong Islamicly, coz in
Ahlusuna waljamaaca they don't say that, but the even beiave that If
someone does rule the kitab and Sunah and replace a mans-made law that
this person is kafir whethter s/he claims to be Muslim.
So please brother agulled be aware of this.
Wasalamu alaikum warahma
A Garad
agu...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> >
> > They can call me a "Murtad" a "Kufri" or whatever, but I know who I am, I face
> > my creator alone in quite solitude, five times a day, every day, and I do it
> > without their cheap sermons.
>
> It is un-Isamic to describe someone a Kufri unless s/he claims to be one. But
> What exactly do you mean by "I do it without their cheap sermons"? Do you mean
> that you will not pray with the rest of the Uma in a mosque?
>
> A. gulled
>
Abdirashid
> Dear Abdirashid,
> So don't use this "either- or-else " stuff on me, 'cause I am on the brink of
> loosing it all together, I am on the edge my dear friend, so unless you want
> to lose me, please DON'T - PUSH - ME with these limiting choices.
Abdidhoof, it has never been my intention to PUSH-YOU (spatially) to the
corner. I will make every imagineable effort to keep you and not the otherwise.
The prime aim of my brief note was to draw your attention that Islam and
secularism are totally "mutually exclusive". My friend, I would appreciate if
enlight us how can you have both sides at same time?. And by the way, what
are the limiting choices you thought I was pushing you with?. In economical
terms (I am not an economist), all resources are limited, so are the choices.
Abdirashid
> Nabad.
Ahmed Barre
With all due respect, i feel you should leave Abdidhoof alone coz you are
pushing him too much. He told you that he is on the edge. didn't he ? then
what do you expect from him pusshing? to fall him into hell fire? though
it is abdidhoof's weakness to say " i leave the islam for u and like you",
i think that is only thing that is left. If you think this is wacdi, in to
my poor understanding it is not but abusing and oppression. I believe that
you leave to God to judge abdidhoof's islam + secularism
--
[In uriidu ila-al islah ma astada'atu.Wamaa tawfiiqii ilaa bilaah]
Ahmed Yassin
Abdirashid <ae...@po-box.mcgill.ca> wrote in article
<715ooq$l...@sifon.cc.mcgill.ca>...
Teka AbaMacha
> You see, things haven't been all right for me lately, I have experienced a lot
> of evil coming to me and my family from people I thought were my Somali
> "muslim" brothers and sisters and neighbors, ........'cause I am on the brink
> of loosing it all together, I am on the edge my dear friend, ...
May Allah (swt) forgive us, have mercy upon us, guide us, keep us safe from
affliction, and provide for us. O Allah! There is nothing easy except what You
make easy, and You make the difficult easy if it be Your will.
~Teka
Abdidhoof
>brink of
>> loosing it all together, I am on the edge my dear friend, so unless you
>want
>> to lose me, please DON'T - PUSH - ME with these limiting choices.
Abdirashid wrote:
>Abdidhoof, it has never been my intention to PUSH-YOU (spatially) to the
>corner. I will make every imagineable effort to keep you and not the
>otherwise.
>The prime aim of my brief note was to draw your attention that Islam and
>secularism are totally "mutually exclusive". My friend, I would appreciate if
>
>enlight us how can you have both sides at same time?. And by the way, what
>are the limiting choices you thought I was pushing you with?. In economical
>terms (I am not an economist), all resources are limited, so are the choices.
>
>Abdirashid
>
>> Nabad.
Dear Abdirashid:
I don't know about you, but my mind is wide enough to hold much more than
incompatible concepts such as Secularism and Islam.
I have learned to control their seemingly opposing views(Islam and
Secularism), and then used them to expand my intellectual and spiritual
horizons, I have learned to reconcile these opposing forces and have tamed
their conflicting reactions.
In the world inside my mind, Islam and Secularism have now become good
neighbors.
The choices are mine, and mine alone.
Abdirashid
> Dear Abdirashid:
> I don't know about you, but my mind is wide enough to hold much more than
> incompatible concepts such as Secularism and Islam.
> I have learned to control their seemingly opposing views(Islam and
> Secularism), and then used them to expand my intellectual and spiritual
> horizons, I have learned to reconcile these opposing forces and have tamed
> their conflicting reactions.
> In the world inside my mind, Islam and Secularism have now become good
> neighbors.
> The choices are mine, and mine alone.
Yes, ultimately, the choices (whatever) are yours, and yours alone. Be it secular
or Islamic faith. However, you seem to be too economical (i.e stingy) or perhaps
avoiding to answer my simple question. That is how, in the name of God, you
wishfully managed to reconcile the two opposing faiths (Islam vs secular) and
eliminated their naturally conflicting reactions?. If nothing else, please share with
us for the sake of intellectual excersice, how you made the impossible possible.
I hope you will not recycle my simple enquiry a third time!!!.
To express the concept of fairness, I am intrigued by your hypotetical concern of
a Somali government run by Somali Islamists. I think this issue should be
discussed separately. Principles first, human dimension the second.
Abdirashid
Abdidhoof
As you are aware of, Secularism has its' origins in the Judeo-Christian past,
it was born in Europe as a movement whoes main goal was to separate the Church
from the affairs of the State.
In the west, including Canada , the goals of that movement have been achieved,
the church is no longer running the state, and yet, Christianity is still the
largest Religion in the world, the number of Christians is at least double or
more than that of the Muslims.
Instead of weackening, Secularism has strengthened Christianity, nobody can
deny that today the most stable and advanced countries in the world are
Christian countries with secular governments.
You are not going to question this assertion, because you live in Quebec.
As Muslims, what we need is to follow the trend and use it to our worldly
advantages, not to fight the tide of times, Muslim people have once been ruled
by an Islamic state of one kind or other, thats not the case today, this
experience belongs to the past, and I need not to return to, not until I get
convinced by the true nature of the Somali Islamists.
Secularism is not faith, the way I see it, its nothing but a universal
utilitarian concept of tending to the worldy aspirations of men and women of
all religions, but Islam is only for Muslims ( yes I know, its for
everybody, etc.., etc...), and Christianity is for Christians (Again I know,
its for all mankind, etc..etc..), but its Secularism thats truely made possible
the concept of Cosmopolitanism, where people of all religious, cultural and
ethnic background can live and work to advance the common good of all. (of
course this is relatively speaking).
Its useless to question this, yourself as a Muslim living in a "secular" state
is prove enough to debunk all doubts.
Without Secularism, the world would be a far worse place than it is today, only
the Fadhyoons and the Ina-Dauuds of this world could have strived in such a
place.
I did reconcile the conflict between Islam and Secularism, because quite
frankly I see no other way out of my present condition, because I simply live
in a Secular world, and to pretend otherwise, like you seem to be doing is
nothing but hypocritical.
You live a Secular country and you are studying in a secular Universtiy, you
seem to see no "conflict" betwen your Islamist philosophy and the act of
utilizing all the benefits that are provited to you by a Secular state, and yet
you are questining me about Islam and Secularism, now let me ask you the
question, since you so abhor the secularist way of living, why is it that you
are not rejecting the benefits (worldly benefits) that this system is giving it
to you ?
>> abdi...@aol.com (Abdidhoof) writes:
>> Dear Abdirashid:
>> I don't know about you, but my mind is wide enough to hold much more than
>> incompatible concepts such as Secularism and Islam.
>> I have learned to control their seemingly opposing views(Islam and
>> Secularism), and then used them to expand my intellectual and spiritual
>> horizons, I have learned to reconcile these opposing forces and have tamed
>> their conflicting reactions.
>> In the world inside my mind, Islam and Secularism have now become good
>> neighbors.
>> The choices are mine, and mine alone.
Abdirashiid wrote:
>Dear Abdidhoof:
>Yes, ultimately, the choices (whatever) are yours, and yours alone. Be it
>secular
>or Islamic faith. However, you seem to be too economical (i.e stingy) or
>perhaps
>avoiding to answer my simple question. That is how, in the name of God, you
>wishfully managed to reconcile the two opposing faiths (Islam vs secular) and
>
>eliminated their naturally conflicting reactions?. If nothing else, please
>share with
>us for the sake of intellectual excersice, how you made the impossible
>possible.
>
>I hope you will not recycle my simple enquiry a third time!!!.
>
>To express the concept of fairness, I am intrigued by your hypotetical
>concern of
>a Somali government run by Somali Islamists. I think this issue should be
>discussed separately. Principles first, human dimension the second.
>
>
>Abdirashid
></PRE></HTML>
Sir Ugaas Nur
Ya salaam, afkaaga caano Kanguro lagu qabay, horta waa loo baahnaa qof
sida adiga oo kale runta u sheega afartan wadaad ee gadhka-dheer leh ee
qurbaha ku wareeray ee waliba isu haysta in ay diinta iyagu
masuul ka yihiin, sida qaldana diintina u fahmay oo maqlay uun waxba la
qarxiyaa iyo waxbaa la dilaa oo xukun lagu helaa. Waxase is waydiin mudan
anigu abidkay ma arag wadaad ama xerow u rooraaya xukun dowladeed oo raba
in uu dal u taliyo, waxaan ogaa oon aan aqoon u lahaa wadaad caruurta
dugsi-quraan wax ku bara habeenkiina masaajidka ka shalaada,laakiin
abidkay ma arag wadaad kitaabkii tuuray oo intu qori qaatay oo hadana
madaxa g'o weyn ku duubtay kabacdi nagu bartay sida xabada loo rido oo
imika mooryaantii dhaca iyo dilka uga horeeya.
caalamkana maanta khaasatan dunida muslimka ma jiro dal uu xukunka u hayo
wadaad laga reebo suudan.
Maanta soomaaliya waxa yaala maaha wax wadaad gadh-dheer leh oo xukun
qabtaa uu xalin karo markaas aniga waxa talo iga ah. wadaadkaas gadhka
dheeri intu helaayo wuxu cuno iyo wuxu cabo waa nabad geli karaa laakiin
maalinta xeradii ba'day waa maalinta uu isku fara gashado xukunk iyo
siyaasad aanu shaqo ku lahayn!
Waxaad maanta isoo xasuusisay nin aad magac ugu leh dunida muslimka iyo
dunidan gaaladaba oo magaciisa la yidhaado, Mawlana Abu 'Ala Mawdudi, oo
u dhashay dalka Hindiya, waxa uu qoray ilaa afar boqol oo buug oo ka kala
sheekaynaya dhamaanba aduunyadan aynu ku nool nahay, ha noqoto xag
diineed, dhaqaale, wax soo saarka, sayniska, technologyada, amamba xaga
nolosha bini aadamka iyo xuquuqday kala mudan yihiin. waxa buugaagtaas
lagu turjumay afaf badan oo kala ah, English,Arabic,French,Italian,Dutch
and several African languages.
buugaagtaas qaar ka mid ah oo aan hada haysto waxa ku jira buug la
yidhaahdo magaciisa, Let's be Muslims. buugan waxa jira chapter uu kaga
hadlaayo muslimiinta waxaana la yidhaahdaa "Muslims and true Muslims"
waxa aad mooda in uu ula jeeday gadh-dheereyaashan seef-la-boodka
noqday.
wuxu yidhi:
(There are some sort of people among our Muslim community, who always cry
shout for Islam, and, says we demand Islam to be our supreme command and
they keep saying that until their throught becomes dry, though, whenever
the demand becomes achievable they may simply say to you, " let it be
there for the time being." So, what do they think that Islam is a
beautiful to display)
(Mawlana Abu Ala Mawdudi)
Markaas akhwaan haku wareerin gadh-dheerayaashan. Anigu shakhsiyan ma
diidani waxa ilaahay subxaanahu wa tacaala ku sheegay quraankiisa
kariimka ah, laakiin walee soomaaliya gadh-dheere xaaran ayuu ka yahay in
uu xukun ka qabto.
La soco arbacada dambe
The peace loving Mujaahid
Sir Aamin Ugaas Nuur.
bashir ali
The fundamental point of view of the the secularist ideology
is based on the detachment of religion (i.e. the Law ofAllah)
from life's affairs.
For the secularist ideology, Allah is definitely not the
COMMANDER.....The secular takes command from man like Caesar,
or their Prime Minister, their King, their President or their
representative (i.e. the man who legislates and commands in
life's affairs.
The secularist ideology states that the principle of Allah
or religion is an individualistic concept remote from the society.
Religion for them, the secularists, is about a ritual or
spiritual relationship with Allah whereas society concerns
the relationship between people (i.e. economic, social and
ruling systems etc.) managed by representatives of the
people i.e. a state or an authority.
Hence the famous saying of seculurists..[give unto Caesar what
is Caesar's and unto God what is God's] manifests the secular
concept clearly.
This secular point of view emanates the idea of
man-made laws, which defines that sovereignty and
authority are for men since man is the source of
legislation instead of Allah, the creator of men.
This is manifested in the saying [The rule of the people,
by the people, for the people]
1.The rule of the people: means mastership for the people
i.e. the power of legislation.
2.By the people: means the people rule by what they legislate.
3. For the people: means the people will be ruled over by what they or
their representative's i.e. what men have legislated.
The Types of Authorities:
This above saying translates legally and practically into
three types of authorities:
1.The Legislative Authority: which has the power to
legislate and pass laws or to amend or repeal them and
to monitor their execution.
2…The Executive Authority: which executes the laws and rules which have
been legislated by the legislative authority.
3. The Judicial Authority: which involves courts and
judges who pass verdicts in cases they judge according
to what the legislative authority legislates.
This is the basis of the secular system, a branch of
the root, which is the detachment of religion from life's affairs.
Hence whoever accepts this branch must necessarily accept the root
from which it emanated implying acceptance of sovereignty for man in
contradiction with Islam which is based on the fundamental principle
that sovereignty, mastership and supremacy are for none but Allah (SWT)
and that the only system which people are obliged to follow is the
system
which the final Messenger Muhammad (SAW) brought to mankind and which is
manifested by embracing the words which make one a Muslim:
"I bear witness that there is no God but Allah, I bear witness
that Muhammad is a Messenger of Allah".
This means that Muslims pledge to worship, follow, obey and submit to
none but Allah (SWT) and to follow no way of life or system different
to that which the messenger Muhammad (SAW) brought.
Whereas in the secular system, the people will follow and SUBMIT
to their own whims and desires manifested in legislating law and order
in their legislative laws, their man-made laws.
This requires us to understand the reality of legislative laws of
man for man.
The Legislative man-made laws of government:
The idea behind establishing legislative of man-made
governemt emanates from the secualr concept which says
that the rule is for the people and by the people, and
that the people are the legislative source.
Secular means that some men form the state, and
that some other people are appointed as rulars of
governments and choosing the rulers and passing bills
of legislation is for other people and since all the people
cannot practically form the legislative body, man-made laws,
they choose deputies to represent them as the legislative and
executive body, these deputies form the government i.e. this man-made
government, and this is the body that selects the ruler or the head of
state who will in turn select the cabinet and hand out the ministerial
portfolios.
1.Legislation and passing laws.
2. To give the man-made law a vote of
confidence, which men legislate the
laws and systems of unbelief (kufr),
which is forbidden by Islam.
In Islam, this is known as "Rububiyyah" (Lordliness).
Allah (SWT) says:
"They take their priests and their rabbis to be
their lords in derogation of Allah...." [9:31].
Islam considers this as resorting to the rules of non-Islam in
which we have been ordered to disbelieve.
Allah (SWT) says:
"Have you not turned your vision to those who
declare that they believe in the revelations that have come to
you and to those before you? Their real wish is to resort together
for Judgement in their disputes to the Taghoot (non-Islam) though
they were ordered to reject it. But Satan's wish is to lead them
astray far away (from the Right)." [4:60].
This action is not the right path for believers, Allah (SWT) says:
"If anyone contends with the Messenger even after guidance has
been plainly conveyed to him, and follows a path other than that
becoming to men of Faith, We shall leave him in the path he has
chosen, and land him in hell - What an evil refuge." [4:115].
Legislation has not been approved in Islam by any text of Shari'ah,
so it is rejected, as narrated in the Hadith of Muslim on the
authority of Ayesha:
She said that the Prophet (SAW) said:
"Whoever performs an action not ordered by us it is rejected".
As for giving a vote of confidence to rulers who are elected
to implement these kufr laws, this is an approval or acceptance
of other than what Allah (SWT) has decreed, and is a co-operation
on Ithm (oppression) and Allah (SWT) has forbidden this for believers.
Therefore being a minister in a kufr (unbelieving) regime, or enjoying
some legislative powers or giving the ruler a vote of confidence is
forbidden, because the means which lead to Haram ends are Haram.
As for those who wish to become deputies (MPs) in order to take part
in parliamentary business such as voting on any legislation (whether
for or against) or giving the ruler a vote of confidence etc., this is
totally forbidden and rejected.
Muslims should not vote for them because it is a means that
leads to forbidden ends (Haram) and helps and strengthens mischief,
sin and wrongdoing.
Islam has forbidden such actions for Allah (SWT) says:
"Help not one another in sin and transgression, but keep
your duty to Allah. Lo! Allah is severe in punishment" [5:2].
The Sovereignty is For none But Allah (SWT):
For the secularist ideology, the sovereignty and authority
is for man and he is the legislator.
But in Islam Allah (SWT) is the only Creator, Commander
and Legislator.
The evidence for this is that Allah (SWT) says:
"The command is for none but Allah, He hath commanded that
ye worship, follow, submit and obey none but Him; that is (Islam)
the right religion, but most men understand not." [12:40].
The above ayah states clearly that sovereignty is
for Allah (SWT) and that the believers are obliged to
worship, follow, submit and obey only Him by following
nothing but His commands in all spheres of life i.e. ritual,
personal, ruling, social, economic and international affairs.
Moreover this verse nullifies the possibility of anyone claiming
that we should follow what men decide for government because
Allah (SWT) says:
"...but most men understand not" and Allah in the Quran dispraises
and condemns the majority who do not follow His commands.
He warns us of being trapped or impressed by the opinion of
the majority.
Allah (SWT) says:
" The good and the evil (which have been decided by Allah)
are not alike even if the evil looks like the good and is
followed by the majority. So fear Allah, O ye that understand;
that (so) ye may prosper." [5:103]
And Allah makes it clear that none of His servants, believers or
disbelievers is allowed to disagree or to be dissatisfied with His
commands or decisions by His saying:
"The command is for none but Allah and no one can say
otherwise." [13:4]
Further, Allah (SWT) states:
"It is not allowed for a believer, male or female, if
Allah and His messenger decide a matter to have any say." [33:36]
Allah has thus decided the message of Al-Islam to be the dominant
message and the confirmation of all messages before and
the abrogation of them.
Allah (SWT) says:
"The only Deen (belief or actions) Allah accepts (from the believers)
is what is based on Islam." [3:19]
And He (SWT) says:
"And whosoever follows or looks for a way different to the way
of Islam, Allah will never accept his deeds (even if it looks good)
and he will be in the hereafter among those who have failed." [3:85]
From the above verses it is clear that a Muslim has no choice but
to abide by the command of Allah and to reject the commands of man.
Under no circumstances can a Muslim accept the legislation
of man nor can a Muslim participate in or promote man's law
because Allah (SWT) says:
"Obey Allah, Obey the messenger and those (believers) in
legitimate authority above you and If you face any dispute,
problem or issue among yourselves refer it to Allah and His
Messenger if you claim you are a believer." [4:59]
Hence Allah (SWT) holds every responsible
person (i.e. Al-Mukallaf) subject to be accounted
for his/her deeds be their verbal or physical actions
or transactions.
Allah (SWT) says:
"By your Lord, (Oh Muhammad) I will account all of them
about every deed." [15:93].
The Shari'ah principle is that the Shari'ah (divine rules)
before us i.e. before Islam are not for us because
Allah (SWT) says:
" For each Messenger I sent a Shari'ah and way
of life" [5:48]
As for the Shari'ah principle which some scholars
follow and which states that the Shari'ah (Divine rules)
before us i.e. before Islam is Shari'ah for
us until our Shari'ah abrogates it or states otherwise.
In fact, even for those who follow this principle they
reject to share power with kufr because Allah (SWT)
clearly states in the Quran:
" Rule and judge between them by whatever Allah has
revealed to you (Oh Muhammad) " [5:49]
It is not prohibited to share power with kufr
regimes (even if we assume that he did shared power).
Obeying man-made law is prohibited and contradicts
with the belief of Muslims.
Allah (SWT) says:
"Do not obey the disbelievers and the hypocrites, reject
their corruption and depend on Allah" [33:48]
And Allah (SWT) says:
"Do not obey the one who is misguided from the revelation
and follows his desires and opinions (Man-made law)"[18:28 ]
And Allah (SWT) also says:
"Hold fast to the Judgement of your Lord and obey not
a Kafir or a sinner" [76:24]
And Allah (SWT) says:
" …If you obey the disbelievers they will turn
you back to kufr " [3:149]
Allah (SWT) says:
"Whatever you gain as benefit or interest in this life
is but a convenience but that which is with Allah is much
better and more lasting for those who believe and put their
trust in Allah" [42:36].
Allah (SWT) says:
" The Satan's will instruct their alliance to promote and
argue with you their manifesto" [6:121]
Allah (SWT) says:
" Here you are debating and arguing on behalf of them in this
life but who will argue for you on the day of judgement or be
their representative" [4:109]
An Individual or Community Vote?
Allah (SWT) says:
" But say not lies: 'This is permitted, and this is forbidden'
so as to ascribe lies to Allah. For those who ascribe lies to
Allah will never succeed (in the Hereafter)" [16:116].
So for Allah's sake do not command what is shameful and prohibited to
the individual or to the whole community for Allah (SWT) says:
" Say: Allah never commands what is shameful: do ye say of Allah
what ye know not "[7:28]
Allah (SWT) says:
" Oh our Lord: we obeyed our leaders and nobles who misled us,
Oh our Lord give them twice our punishment and curse them severely "
[33:67]
Dear Muslim brothers and sisters, Allah (SWT) does not
account you for your errors or unintentional mistakes but
He will account you for what you do intentionally.
Allah (SWT) says:
" Among the people are hypocrites who have grown up with bad habits,
you don't know them but Allah knows them. And there are others who mix
good deeds with bad deeds: perhaps Allah will forgive them (if they
repent)
since Allah is all forgiving.. " [9:102].
Allah (SWT) says:
" You are not accounted for what you do by mistake, but for
what you intentionally do" [33:5].
Abdirashid
> Dear abdirashid:
> With all due respect, i feel you should leave Abdidhoof alone coz you are
> pushing him too much. He told you that he is on the edge. didn't he ? then
> what do you expect from him pusshing? to fall him into hell fire? though
> it is abdidhoof's weakness to say " i leave the islam for u and like you",
> i think that is only thing that is left. If you think this is wacdi, in to
> my poor understanding it is not but abusing and oppression. I believe that
> you leave to God to judge abdidhoof's islam + secularism
Dear Ahmed Yassin;
I do thank you for your Nasiixa (advice). As you may be aware of, I was not part
of this debate initially. I only got envolved after bro Abdidhoof posed a
question of whether Islam demands the application of its law in our daily live or
not. Mohamed O. Muse (may Allah keep him and all of us on the right path)
posted a persuassive response by quoting Qur'anic verses pertinent to the
issue being under discussion. At that point, I honestly felt that Abdidhoof may
be willing to think again and reconsider his original position. In his response,
the man declared being pushed hard to the edge. Please read the following
paragraph which was my response, and quote:
"Abdidhoof, it has never been my intention to PUSH-YOU (spatially) to the
corner. I will make every imagineable effort to keep you and not the otherwise.
The prime aim of my brief note was to draw your attention that Islam and
secularism are totally "mutually exclusive". My friend, I would appreciate if
enlight us how can you have both sides at same time?".
Now, my friend Ahmed, having shed some light the background of the debate,
could you please share with the honourable members where is the ABUSIVE
language in my debate with Abdidhoof?. Further to this question, where did I
OPPRESS him (Abdidhoof)?. As I said, I do thank you and willing to heed your
Nasiixa, but FAILED TO COMPREHEND WHAT YOU CALLED abusing and
oppression according to YOUR "POOR UNDERSTANDING".
BTW if you read Abdidhoof's last comments, in a scathing attack, he stopped
just short of calling me hypocrite, you know why? because I stay in a Secular
state, Canada, and studying in McGill!!.
Abdidhoof
>just short of calling me hypocrite, you know why? because I stay in a
>Secular
>state, Canada, and studying in McGill!!.
>
>
Dear Abdirashid,
I am sorry if I "stopped short", my actual intention was to call you a
Hypocrite, every Islamist who lives in a Secular country and accepts the social
benefits that are provided by such country is nothing but the worst kind of a
Hypocrite.
Why ? because a true Islamist would not allow him or herself t to be ruled by a
Secular government.
Now, yourself as an Islamist is now being ruled by laws of the Canadian
government, and assuming you are a Canadian citizen , you may even have taken
an oath of alligiance not to Allah nor the to the law of the Sharia, but to the
Queen of England !! You must have accepted a Student Loan or even a Welfare
check from the Canadian government, so if I may ask you this question:
" Have you ever asked yourself where this money has come from ?"
What about if I tell you that most of it has it's background form surely
non-Halaal sources, such as taxes from Casinos, Beer, Hog, the Seagram Empire,
Adult Videos (you know what I mean..don't you), Strippers, Movie theatres,
sales from books, including but limited to the Satanic Verses, etc.., etc..and
so on and so forth., yes my friend, thats exactly where the money has come
from.
Oh, you were not aware of that ? oh you poor little innocent creature, I
thought your mind was equipped with an advanced "Intuitive Logic Chip", but at
least you could have asked them about the origin of the money you were so
eagerly asking for and accepting, or could have used some of those Statistical
Tools :) like asking yourself these questions:
- What are the chances of the money in this check coming from the sales taxes
of the novel, Satanic Verses ? or maybe from the sales taxes from twenty fat
Pigs ?) -
But you never asked these question, and not only that, who knows, you may have
even complained that "perhaps because of your color or accent or long beard *if
you've got one*", your rights were being partially denied and you were not
getting enough of the stuff !
As long as you are living in Canada or any other Secular country, I will never
take you guys( the Islamists) very seriously, your preachings about the Sharia
hold no water
to me, and your Koranic verses shall always sound hollow to my ears.
You've got the choices, go to Iran, Afghanistan, Sudan, Saudi Arabia and mybe
Pakistan, and from there preach me about the Sharia, then I will take you very
seriouslyy and I will start to listen to your ideas.
One last question, can you "islamically" justify yourself as an Islamist, being
ruled by a Secular or as you may prefer to call them, a "KUFR" government in
Canada ?
You are supposed to always be ruled by the Law of Allah, the Sharia is supposed
to always and without exeption be your guiding light, but here in Canada, you
have no other leader but Jean Chretien, and in Quebec you have Mr. Lucien
Bouchard as your elected provincial leader, and neither of them is, let alone
the Sharia, even a Muslim, and forget about the Prophet, athese guys don't
even believe in Allah !!
So I wonder why ? Why my friend ? How come ?
Ahmed Barre
First I am sorry if blamed if any wrong doing which you are not entitled
to. I know that you were not involved this thread at the beginning and I
also appreciate your brotherly advice of Abdidhoof. But I assumed that you
read all the thread since you have read the Abdidhoof's. To my poor
understanding your advice was right advice but it came a wrong time. It
came a time that abdidhoof announced that he is on the edge and need not to
be pushed but must be left alone instead. And what this "pushing" is all
about was Abdidhoof trying to stand his ground and some brothers trying to
convince him to change his position.
Hence, as I indicated earlier abdidhoof announced clearly that he was
"on edge" and he should be left alone. Then let me ask this questions: if
someone honestly told you his /her position and perceived your advice is
"pushing" , can't you leave him/her alone? . And Why Islamists always
attack those who don't want their opinion/preach in the name of advice or
wacdi ? What they are supposed about to lose?.
I believe humanity has a choice when it comes to word of God. I believe
the humanity should left their choices because it their born rights to have
a choice. IMAA SHAAKIRA WA IMAA KAFUURA (to choose going the evil path or
the Godly path. ). LAA IKRAAHA FI DIIN QAD TABAYANA RUSHDI MINAL QAYI (in
religion, there is no force because the Godly path is clear from the evil
path and one who chooses the hell instead of heaven is up to him/her).
I believe when it comes to preaching,, forget about others, but even
Messengers (peace be upon them) are nothing but Warners. They were sent to
convey the message but not to enforce others.
Thus, to me if someone clearly says " I don't want your preaching" and for
some unknown reason the preacher kept on preaching to that person, I
believe this is neither preach nor advice but abusive and oppression. And
that is why my poor understanding led me to write that words, "abuse" and "
oppression" I mentioned my first posting.
And lastly I am saying once again there was nothing wrong with your
brotherly advice but only the timing.
-
[In uriidu ila-al islah ma astada'atu.Wamaa tawfiiqii ilaa bilaah]
Ahmed Yassin
Abdirashid <ae...@po-box.mcgill.ca> wrote in article
<71d9rt$9...@sifon.cc.mcgill.ca>...
> BTW if you read Abdidhoof's last comments, in a scathing attack, he
stopped
> just short of calling me hypocrite, you know why? because I stay in a
Secular
> state, Canada, and studying in McGill!!.
>
Abdiwali M Ahmed
bashir ali (bas...@worldnet.att.net) writes:
>THE SECULAR IDEOLOGY:
>The fundamental point of view of the the secularist ideology
>is based on the detachment of religion (i.e. the Law ofAllah)
>from life's affairs.
Erroneous and misleading. The time-tested message of the secular ideology
argues that the relationship of the worshipper and the worshipped (Allah)
is so unique that no one has the permission to intervene in it and become
an interpreter for the former. AND that it is practically easy for a nation
to progress in every aspect if the management and the maintenance of state
affairs are taken out of the hands of clergies and entrusted to a trained
group i.e. politicians. No one's life is detached from religion neither
his/his piousness to Allah is delimited.
Twisting the facts to suit your fancy dreams is something not new to the
netters.
Ardaaga QabiilDiid......
--
|Waa ummad midoo+++++Isku muunadoo++++++++Ay wada martaa |
|Maaweello dhaqan++++Muslimoo ku hadli++++Afkeygaa macaan|
|Magacaa qabiil++++++Iska maydhayoo+++MABDA'WEYN KU SOCON|
| QabiilDiid: July'96 |
Ahmed Barre
-- Dear Abdirashid:
Abdirashid
> Dear Abdirashid,
> I am sorry if I "stopped short", my actual intention was to call you a
> Hypocrite, every Islamist who lives in a Secular country and accepts the social
> benefits that are provided by such country is nothing but the worst kind of a
> Hypocrite.
Well, what do you expect me to say? descend to namecalling? No my friend!!. Look
for some body else for that position. However, I think you desperately need to know
the roots and origin of the very first hypocrites in the muslim community!!!. Just ask
yourself a very simple question (nothing seem to be so simple for you); WHY
HYPOCRITES DID NOT EXIST DURING MAKA PERIOD (13 YEARS) AND COME
TO HORIZON AT THE INTIAL STAGES OF THE ISLAMIC GOVERNMENT IN
MADINA?. Just to give you a useful tip, the acceptance or the rejection of the
Islamic justice was the only AND ONLY distnguishing factor for a sicere muslim
from a Hypocrite. A good starting point and please share with us your findings.
bashir ali
> bashir wrote:
> >THE SECULAR IDEOLOGY:
> >The fundamental point of view of the the secularist ideology
> >is based on the detachment of religion (i.e. the Law of Allah)
> >from life's affairs.
> Erroneous and misleading. The time-tested message of the secular ideology
> argues that the relationship of the worshipper and the worshipped (Allah)
> is so unique that no one has the permission to intervene in it and become
> an interpreter for the former.
Abdiwali, I don't it is wrong and I don't
think one is misleading others when he or
she points out what the actual "relationship"
between the Creator and the created is all
about. This relationship between us and Allah,
as you said, is a *unique* on, so much so that
Allah, Himself, stressed in Qur'an many places
that His command or His religion and it's establishment
or implementation of His divine Laws must be in every
aspect of His creation,us.
This relationship is so clear in the Qur'an
that I don't think it needs an interpretation
and I don't think one is interfering others
when he or she points out what is in the
Qur'an. That Qur'an is meant to be recited
and conveyed.
> AND that it is practically easy for a nation to progress
> in every aspect if the management and the maintenance of
> state affairs are taken out of the hands of clergies and
> entrusted to a trained group i.e. politicians. No one's life
> is detached from religion neither his/his piousness to Allah
> is delimited.
Abdiwali, your idea suggests that it is very easy for
Muslims to maintain or manage a secular government more so
than an Islamic government.
You think that *progress* and success comes with the
following secular laws instead of following an Islamic law.
However, I think you should know that Allah would not
have explicitly defined for us in the Qur'an that success
and progress comes with the following of His Laws only and
how we can or able to govern ourselves by following His revealed
Laws.
You should also know that it is really possible that we can
govern our affairs of life in the way showed by our prophet
and his companion, especially since there were Muslims just
like us who learned and able to follow the Laws of Allah and
by doing this, they not only succeeded, but actually reached
the highest pinnacle of progress and justice in Islam.
> Twisting the facts to suit your fancy dreams is
> something not new to the netters.
Abdiwali, in the Qur'an, Allah(SWT) ordered the
Muslims to employ His (SWT) rules and this is not
a dream or facny.
Prophet (pbuh) explained the details and the
importance of following the rule of Allah and
nothing else.
"No one among you becomes a believer until his
mentality and feelings (emotions) are in harmony
with what I have brought".
Allah(SWT) said:
"If anyone rules by other than what Allah has
revealed, they are kafireen (unbelievers)." [5:44]
"O you who believe! Obey Allah, and obey the massenger
and those from you who are in authority; and if you have
a dispute concerning any matter, refer it to Allah and the
massenger if you are (in truth) believers in Allah and the
Last Day. That is better and more seemly in the end."[4:59]
Reffering it to Allah and the Messenger means following
the Qura'n and the sunna and "It is not for any believing
man or woman, when Allah and his massenger have decided a
matter, to have any choice for themselves in their affairs.
For whoever rebels against Allah and His Massenger has gone
astray into manifist error." [33:36]
Bashir.
Phcb45
Does the above statement mean that
all those Muslims that have became natutralized citizens in western countries,
i.e. USA or Canada, and pledged
alleggiance to the constitution of those countries or have voted in an election
are Kufaaris?
omar ahmed
Phcb45
>This means that Muslims pledge to worship, follow, obey and submit to
>none but Allah (SWT) and to follow no way of life or system different
>to that which the messenger Muhammad (SAW) brought.
>
>
bashir ali
> >This means that Muslims pledge to worship, follow, obey and submit to
> >none but Allah (SWT) and to follow no way of life or system different
> >to that which the messenger Muhammad (SAW) brought.
> mudane Bashir,
> Does the above statement mean that all those
> Muslims that have became natutralized citizens
> in western countries, i.e. USA or Canada, and
> pledged alleggiance to the constitution of those
> countries or have voted in an election are Kufaaris?
Omar Ahmed, I do not know who are kufaaris and
who are not, but this is what I know:
I know that Muslims should:
"pledge to worship, follow, obey and submit to
none but Allah (SWT) and to follow no way of life
or system different to that which the messenger
Muhammad (SAW) brought", because "It is not for any
believing man or woman, when Allah and his massenger
have decided a matter, to have any choice for themselves
in their affairs. For whoever rebels against Allah and
His Massenger has gone astray into manifist error." [33:36],
I know that there is another ayah in the Qur'an which says:
"If anyone rules by other than what Allah has revealed, they
are kafireen (unbelievers)." [5:44].
I know that there is another ayah that says:
" Among the people are hypocrites who have grown
up with bad habits, you don't know them but Allah
knows them. And there are others who mix good deeds
with bad deeds: perhaps Allah will forgive them
(if they repent) since Allah is all forgiving.." [9:102].
Omar Ahmed, Allah is telling us:
"O you who believe! Obey Allah, and obey the massenger
and those from you who are in authority; and if you have
a dispute concerning any matter, refer it to Allah and
the massenger if you are (in truth) believers in Allah
and the Last Day. That is better and more seemly in the
end."[4:59]
Omar Ahmed, if we "pledged allegiance to the constitution of
those countries or have voted in an election" while knowing
that those "countries and those people" would rule by other than
what Allah has revealed, we are helping their un-Islamic systrem
and Allah tells us "Help not one another in sin and transgression,
but keep your duty to Allah. Lo! Allah is severe in punishment" [5:2].
If we help one another in what is un-Islamic, there is another
ayah that tells us, we will, in the day of judgement, say these wrods:
"..we obeyed our leaders and nobles who misled us, Oh our Lord give
them twice our punishment and curse them severely "[33:67].
"Have you not turned your vision to those who declare that they believe
in the revelations that have come to you and to those before you?
Their real wish is to resort together for Judgement in their disputes
to the Taghoot (non-Islam) though they were ordered to reject it.
But Satan's wish is to lead them astray far away (from the Right)."
[4:60]., because " The Satan's will instruct their alliance to promote
and argue with you their manifesto" [6:121]
Therefore, brother Omar Ahmed, we should listen and opey
the words of our Lord when He tells us to "Hold fast
to the Judgement of your Lord and obey not a Kafir or a
sinner" [76:24] and "Do not obey the one who is misguided
from the revelation and follows his desires and opinions
(man-made law)"[18:28 ], because "The only Deen (belief or
actions) Allah accepts (from the believers) is what is based
on Islam." [3:19] and therefore, "It is not allowed for a
believer, male or female, if Allah and His messenger decide
a matter to have any say." [33:36]
Bashir
Phcb45
In your opinion,from your understanding
of Islam, and in your ownn words,
is it heretical for a Muslim who lives in a
secular nation like the US or Canada to
vote in an election or even pledge
allegiance at the time of naturalization.
omar ahmed
Abdiwali M Ahmed
bashir ali (bas...@worldnet.att.net) writes:
> Abdiwali M Ahmed wrote:
>Abdiwali, I don't it is wrong and I don't
>think one is misleading others when he or
>she points out what the actual "relationship"
>between the Creator and the created is all
>about. This relationship between us and Allah,
>as you said, is a *unique* on, so much so that
>Allah, Himself, stressed in Qur'an many places
>that His command or His religion and it's establishment
>or implementation of His divine Laws must be in every
>aspect of His creation,us.
We still despise your short-sighted definitional rumbling of secularism.
Allah's command and His divine Laws are ceaselessly reflected in every act,
thinking, movement, success, failure etc that His creations, including the
human race, embark upon or undergo. Every natural law known or discovered
and every artificial law concocted by man is directly or indirectly in
concert with Allah for nothing has to be without Him saying "Be".
A good number of humans have discovered the abstract phenomena that if the
religion and the state affairs are separated, everyone is better off; the
fruition and success of it is right in front of you. But, if you interrupt
Quran in light of what was happening 1500 years ago, you are in no position
to evaluate secularism objectively; and the voices of dead will continue
resonating in your eardrum for rest of your life.
The rest is soothing which Ardaaga QabiilDiid has plenty of it in its arches.
Ardaaga QabiilDiid.....
> Bashir.
Abdidhoof
Fatima Wrote:
>If brother Abdiwali doesn't believe me, let him please consult his
>dictionary. Any secular dictionary, written by secularists, will tell us
>what 'Secular' really means. I have a secular dictionary right infront
>of me as I write, and this is what it says about the word 'Secular:'
>
>- concerned with the affairs of this world,
>- worldly
>- not sacred
>- temporal
>- profane
>- sceptical of religious truth
>0r opposed to religious education.
>
>
Dear Fatima,
With all due respect, I think you are wrong to assume that all descriptions of
the meaning of words in "dictionaries" are correct.
Dictioners are compiled by people, and they describe the meaning of words
according to their cultural, racial, and religious conditionings and biases.
For instance, some dictioners describe the meaning of the word 'BLACK' as being
Evil, Wicked, Ugly and other negative things.
Of course you and I know that it isn't so, we know it because thats the color
of our skin.
A secular person will never describe Secularism as being Profane, the person
who compiled that dictionary was perhaps using the language of the old
ecclesiastical order, and I mean hundreds of years ago..
In today's world, Secularism is a main stream way thinking, and profane surely
its not.
Its because of the tolerant aspect of the Secular philosphy that you are now
able say whatever you feel like, without any fear .
Had you lived in any Muslim country, name any, , I bet you wouldn't be so
quick to use the word "Profane" in describing their ways.
Dear Fatima, Secularism means respect, freedom, equality, reason, ethics and
much more of positive ways, and all of that, without the fear of Hell.
fat...@ppp.nasionet.net
In article <71ds6b$l...@freenet-news.carleton.ca>,
cy...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Abdiwali M Ahmed) wrote:
>
> bashir ali (bas...@worldnet.att.net) writes:
>
> >THE SECULAR IDEOLOGY:
>
> >The fundamental point of view of the the secularist ideology
> >is based on the detachment of religion (i.e. the Law ofAllah)
> >from life's affairs.
>
> In answer to brother Bashir, brother Abdiwali wrote:
> Erroneous and misleading.
I would have to differ from brother Abdiwali.
No, brother Bashir's statement is neither 'erroneous' nor is it 'misleading'.
Truth may sometimes be a bitter bill to swallow, but it will always
remain the Truth.
If brother Abdiwali doesn't believe me, let him please consult his
dictionary. Any secular dictionary, written by secularists, will tell us
what 'Secular' really means. I have a secular dictionary right infront
of me as I write, and this is what it says about the word 'Secular:'
- concerned with the affairs of this world,
- worldly
- not sacred
- temporal
- profane
- sceptical of religious truth
0r opposed to religious education.
The secularists who have compiled this dictionary of mine also tell
me that a 'secular' is something that occurs at a certain point of
time,. In other words, the secular scope of things is not only
actively irreligious, it is also limited in scope, having a beginning
and an end.
Secular laws are man-made. And as we all know Man is by nature finite,
coming into existence at a certain point in time, followed by
his exit from the scene, at a certain point in time.
Which in reality makes man-made laws not only 'imperfect', narrow-minded,
but also 'finite,' at a certain period of time, only. And off course,
we all know of man's inherent selfishness in bending the laws to
their own benefit, when it suits them.
On the other hand, Allah is not only Perfect in all He does, He is
also Infinite. He has no beginning and He has no End. He, being
Merciful and Caring, He has his creation's best interest at heart.
In other words, His Laws and Limits are set in such a way that they
are there to benefit all of creation, including man, for all times
to come. And unlike man, who has special interests, Allah has no needs
at all.
> The time-tested message of the secular ideology
As already mentioned, the secular ideology is by nature finite, and is
by nature only material. And man is not material alone. Man is
not only material, he is also a spiritual being. So man's dimensions
are infact much larger than secularism itself. So how are we going
to fit man into something that's smaller than him? To do that, you
will have to under-size man, getting rid of his spiritual dimensions,
and re-shaping him in such a manner that he loses a dimension of him...
If you don't believe me, take a good look at the fathers of Secularism
and then see how stunted they have become...
> argues that the relationship of the worshipper and the worshipped (Allah)
> is so unique that no one has the permission to intervene in it and become
> an interpreter for the former.
As we very well know secularism is a state of denial, opposed to
religion and Muslims don't need such stunted people's permission as
to how and when to obey their Lord. For the true believer, the whole
earth is a Mosque and every activity is worship of Allah. For man
is created only for the purpose of worshipping Allah.
> If the secualr have nothing to do with AND that it is practically easy for a
> nation to progress in every aspect
If by 'progress' the brother means 'material' progress, done at the expense of
spiritual growth, then a believr wouldn't call that 'success' at all.
Let's remember that at the time of death, our furnitures, our TV-sets,
and our diamond rings are not going into the graves with us. We are
going to meet Allah, bare and alone, as He has created us the first time.
and we are going to meet Him devoid of everything, except 'good actions.'
>if the management and the maintenance of state affairs are taken out of the >
> hands of clergies and entrusted to a trained group i.e. politicians.
We have already seen where that has landed Somalis...and if they are
wise they would think twice before they sucumbed to brain-washed
mortals.
> No one's life is detached from religion neither his/his piousness to Allah is
> delimited.
That's not what the Secularists say. I urge the brother not to put words
into these God-denying people's mouths. Rather, let's talk to the
fathers of secularism themselves. And then only will we see that
their Agenda is far from Allah's Aim. And they won't be shy in telling
us that, either. Please let's not make excuses for their denials.
There's nothing new or unique about the secularist's
denial of man's basic need to worship His Lord.
They are not the first people to deny their needs and they won't be
the last. Actually, it's muslims who are making this God-denying
ideology into something it is not. How ridiculous can one get?
Needless to say, disbelief is as old as the accured Shaitan himself.
One wonders how Shaitan would have fared in this world
had his house been divided against himself?
Wassalam
bashir ali
> bashir wrote:
> >THE SECULAR IDEOLOGY:
> >The fundamental point of view of the the secularist ideology
> >is based on the detachment of religion (i.e. the Law of Allah)
> >from life's affairs.
Abdiwali wrote:
> Erroneous and misleading. The time-tested message of the secular ideology
> argues that the relationship of the worshipper and the worshipped (Allah)
> is so unique that no one has the permission to intervene in it and become
> an interpreter for the former.
> bashir wrote:
> >Abdiwali, I don't think it is wrong and I don't
> >think one is misleading others when he or
> >she points out what the actual "relationship"
> >between the Creator and the created is all
> >about. This relationship between us and Allah,
> >as you said, is a *unique* one, so much so that
> >Allah, Himself, stressed in the Qura'n many places
> >where His command or His religion and it's establishment
> >or implementation of His divine Laws must be in every
> >aspect of His creation, us.
> We still despise your short-sighted definitional
> rumbling of secularism.
Abdiwali, I really do not care whether you
despise my definition on secularism or not,
but you can't sell your ideas to us by saying
that secular laws and religious Laws are the
same. You can also despise all you want when
I tell you that secular and religion are not the same.
If you have not known before, let me tell you
and let me define for you what the real definition
of SECULARISM says:
Secularism is an ideology or a belief that holds the
system of "separation of religion and state affairs".
> Allah's command and His divine Laws are ceaselessly reflected in every act,
> thinking, movement, success, failure etc that His creations, including the
> human race, embark upon or undergo.
But, the secularists would like to separate
"Allah's command and His divine Laws" and their
affairs in life of "every act, thinking, movement,
success, failure etc." !
> Every natural law known or discovered and every artificial
> law concocted by man is directly or indirectly in concert with
> Allah for nothing has to be without Him saying "Be".
Well, Abdiwali, we know that there are man-made laws
and that there are Allah's Laws. We also know that that
Allah is fully aware of or cognizant of what some people
follow is not Allah's Law and He is also aware of what
laws people need and the requirements of His Laws.
> A good number of humans have discovered the abstract
> phenomena that if the religion and the state affairs
> are separated, everyone is better off; the fruition
> and success of it is right in front of you.
Abdiwali, if separation of religion and our affairs
in life were better for us, Allah would not have sent
the Qur'an and our messenger to us so that we follow
His Laws.
In the Qur'an and in our prophet's sunna, we are endowed
with a full developed will, as to differentiate what is from
Allah--His religious Laws, and what is from people--sacrigious
laws of man.
Abdiwali, if you have not known before, our primary purpose in
this world is to act as vicegerent of Allah on the earth and
to establish in His Laws in our affairs and become His theocracy
if we are Muslims and if we follow our primary purpose and our
"natural" will which is to follow no other laws other than
Allah's Divine Laws, then that is when we will really reach
success in this world and the hereafter and become "better off"
people.
> But, if you interrupt Quran in light of what was happening 1500
> years ago,
Abdiwali, the Qura'n is for all time(until the end of time),
and following the Qur'an is where our success must be laying
since Allah sent the Qur'an not only to the people before us, but
every one who is living in the world and those who are to come.
> you are in no position to evaluate secularism objectively;
> and the voices of dead will continue resonating in your eardrum
> for rest of your life.
Abdiwali, I have seen what secularism can do
and what non religious laws have done to our
country. I'm in a position hear and see every day
the bad experience Somali people had in Somalia and
how they have suffered in the hands of sacrilegious people.
> The rest is soothing which Ardaaga QabiilDiid has
> plenty of it in its arches.
what sooting arches do you have, Abdiwali?
Bashir.
fat...@ppp.nasionet.net
In article <19981101024103...@ng68.aol.com>,
abdi...@aol.com (Abdidhoof) wrote:
> Dear Fatima,
>
> With all due respect, I think you are wrong to assume that all descriptions of
> the meaning of words in "dictionaries" are correct.
This dictionary of mine is written by people whose mother tongue is
English, so I would assume that they would be the first to know
their own language.
> A secular person will never describe Secularism as being Profane,
Well, the writers of my dictionary did just that. And being children
of secularism themselves, they should know what they are talking
about. I wish I could say the same for some of the brothers
in this site, though.
> the person
> who compiled that dictionary was perhaps using the language of the old
> ecclesiastical order, and I mean hundreds of years ago..
> In today's world, Secularism is a main stream way thinking, and profane surely
> its not.
This dictionary was originally published 1986. The edition I have is
published 1989. In 1989 the secularists who wrote this dictionary
equated 'secularism' with 'profanity'. They didn't seem to have any
qualms about doing that.
> Its because of the tolerant aspect of the Secular philosphy that you are now
> able say whatever you feel like, without any fear.
We fear *only* Allah and that's no thanks to any secular doctrine.
As for being tolerant, I have my reservations about a doctrine whose
basis is nothing but separatism: For secularism means separatism;
the forciful separation of body and soul. The total divorcing of body
and spirit. Allah has created man as body and spirit. The secularists
are tearing this human apart. Now what's so tolerant about tearing
a human apart?
> Had you lived in any Muslim country, name any, , I bet you wouldn't be so
> quick to use the word "Profane" in describing their ways.
The Islamic way of life could hardly be called 'profane'. So there is
hardly any reason for name-calling. On the other hand, secularists
are very much satisfied with their state of being and are very proud
of their profanity.
> Secularism means respect, freedom, equality, reason, ethics and
> much more of positive ways, and all of that, without the fear of Hell.
The Secularists who have written my dictionary have failed to
see any of the positive terms mentioned above in their secular doctrine.
Instead, I am saddled with negative terms like:
'profane,' 'worldy''temporal' 'not sacred' 'lay' 'sceptical of
religious truths' opposed to religious education,' etc, etc.
Now, who should I believe? The self-satisfied secularists who
wrote my dictionary in collaboration with Oxford University Press?
Or the new 'Somali version' peddled in this site?
I wonder, who is more authentic of the two peddlars?
The Originators who seem to know what they are doing?
Or the new Converts?
Ahmed Barre
That was really profound and mind-blowing question? (to whom you suppose
to believe). I bet you should believe the definition of your dictionery
rather than believing the definition of the secularism amateurs--those who
embraced the ideology yesterday. I kind of think you better take the
information from the first source, not second. But hey, that doesn't mean
we can't bought your preach wholesalely.
Being the one who began this thread, let me ask you if you have any vission
of what Islamic goverment in horn Africa would look like other than the
fantasy one which these Islamists have been advocating for all their
lives.
Being a big man who lived for quite a while, i have suffered from this
Islamic-goverment overkill which i was led to believe it is like " i have
a dream" of later Martin luther King, the big dreamer .
I have been seeing somali ismalists shouting on the top of their hearts
for decades, yet i have never seen them taking any slight action or even
proposing a single blue print of how this kind of goverment would look
like.
I kind of think their nothing but punch of progammed and coded by some
other foreign agents. these programmed islamists of ours need to be
debuggged and decoded their mind once again to come their sense and to be
compatible to year 2000.
they read only the idea of others, but don't create anything. If the whole
Islamic world turned to be Islamic goverments, i can assure you, our
islamists will be still busy doing small stuff that serve no one's interest
but only harbour trouble.
thus, i think these somali islamists must be debugged and decoded their
minds to be free-thinking and respected human beings rather than a PC or a
parot who only repeats what has been told to do. Trust me, the sooner the
deprogram and decode proccess begins the faster the solution.
--
[In uriidu ila-al islah ma astada'atu.Wamaa tawfiiqii ilaa bilaah]
Ahmed Yassin
fat...@ppp.nasionet.net wrote in article
<71i1mu$et8$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
Abdiwali M Ahmed
(fat...@ppp.nasionet.net) writes:
>I would have to differ from brother Abdiwali.
Absolutely, it is your right.
>No, brother Bashir's statement is neither 'erroneous' nor is it 'misleading'.
>Truth may sometimes be a bitter bill to swallow, but it will always
>remain the Truth.
But, the truth is that Bashir twisted the definition and objectivity of the
disputed term. For the love of Allah or perhaps because of fear of the
unknown, he clearly implied that if a nation adopts secularism, the
legislation and legal prohibitions will force every one to abandon or comprise
his/her religious beliefs. On the contrary, all those countries who
faithfully implement secularism encourage the citizenry to be strong in
their faith.
One more point for you to masticate thoroughly, the modern nation-state is
based on the philosophy of secularism. This means that the affairs of the
state are economically or technically easy to handle if the clergies stop
being interferences. Just as the bricklaying is a craft to be learned,
state running is an art to be mastered.
>If brother Abdiwali doesn't believe me, let him please consult his
>dictionary. Any secular dictionary, written by secularists, will tell us
>what 'Secular' really means. I have a secular dictionary right infront
>of me as I write, and this is what it says about the word 'Secular:'
>- concerned with the affairs of this world,
>- worldly
>- not sacred
>- temporal
We have dropped the last three for their irrelevance to the main theme of
this discourse. Never the less, even if we agree the rest of terms for
definitions of secularism, however superficial they are, there is nothing
wrong being worldly. Without comprising their faith, people can make this
world a better place to live in.
>The secularists who have compiled this dictionary of mine also tell
>me that a 'secular' is something that occurs at a certain point of
>time,. In other words, the secular scope of things is not only
>actively irreligious, it is also limited in scope, having a beginning
>and an end.
True. There are religious things and irreligious things. Both of them came
into the world by order of the Creator. This world is a stage people come
in and people go out.
>Secular laws are man-made. And as we all know Man is by nature finite,
>coming into existence at a certain point in time, followed by
>his exit from the scene, at a certain point in time.
>Which in reality makes man-made laws not only 'imperfect', narrow-minded,
>but also 'finite,' at a certain period of time, only. And off course,
>we all know of man's inherent selfishness in bending the laws to
>their own benefit, when it suits them.
>On the other hand, Allah is not only Perfect in all He does, He is
>also Infinite. He has no beginning and He has no End. He, being
>Merciful and Caring, He has his creation's best interest at heart.
>In other words, His Laws and Limits are set in such a way that they
>are there to benefit all of creation, including man, for all times
>to come. And unlike man, who has special interests, Allah has no needs
>at all.
>As already mentioned, the secular ideology is by nature finite, and is
>by nature only material. And man is not material alone. Man is
>not only material, he is also a spiritual being. So man's dimensions
>are infact much larger than secularism itself. So how are we going
>to fit man into something that's smaller than him? To do that, you
>will have to under-size man, getting rid of his spiritual dimensions,
>and re-shaping him in such a manner that he loses a dimension of him...
>If you don't believe me, take a good look at the fathers of Secularism
>and then see how stunted they have become...
You are equating man to Allah in power and you are implying that there is
an on-going hostility between them. Man exist with his Creator in harmony.
Whatever man does, let us say, is preapproved by his creator; and Allah
being All-knowing sees what everybody's intention is. If the intention of
secularists is the eradication of spiritual need of the mankind, which it is
not, then Allah has his own ways to deal with them.
Here is one interesting point that helps the case of secularism. It is a
fact that human has spiritual dimension. It is another fact that man has a
different degree of spiritualism i.e. there is a scales of piousness. The
clergies being on the top of the scale are preoccupied with heavenly dealings
and are thus not suited to run the affairs of the worldly matters. The middle
ground is the best of everything.
>As we very well know secularism is a state of denial, opposed to
>religion and Muslims don't need such stunted people's permission as
>to how and when to obey their Lord. For the true believer, the whole
>earth is a Mosque and every activity is worship of Allah. For man
>is created only for the purpose of worshipping Allah.
Untrue. A true secularist does not deny or oppose religion. Throughout known
history Somalis were secular and still strongly believe in their culture and
their religion. Are you saying Somalis are not Muslims?
>If by 'progress' the brother means 'material' progress, done at the expense
>of spiritual growth, then a believr wouldn't call that 'success' at all.
Nobody is telling you abandon your faith. If there is no material progress
who will pay the zaka and who will feed the believers? Keep in mind that
ingestion is a natural process.
>Let's remember that at the time of death, our furnitures, our TV-sets,
>and our diamond rings are not going into the graves with us. We are
>going to meet Allah, bare and alone, as He has created us the first time.
>and we are going to meet Him devoid of everything, except 'good actions.'
Your parents should have told you that death and taxes are inevitable in life.
>We have already seen where that has landed Somalis...and if they are
>wise they would think twice before they sucumbed to brain-washed
>mortals.
We do not agree with you here. The cause of the Somali woes is not secularism.
In fact, Somalism is secularism. The mythical clan belief is the only culprit
of the misery in Somalia.
>That's not what the Secularists say. I urge the brother not to put words
>into these God-denying people's mouths. Rather, let's talk to the
>fathers of secularism themselves. And then only will we see that
>their Agenda is far from Allah's Aim. And they won't be shy in telling
>us that, either. Please let's not make excuses for their denials.
We do not look at the bad apples and renegades who hijack agendas for some
personal objectives. A true secularist encourages spiritual enrichment on
individual basis.
>There's nothing new or unique about the secularist's
>denial of man's basic need to worship His Lord.
>They are not the first people to deny their needs and they won't be
>the last. Actually, it's muslims who are making this God-denying
>ideology into something it is not. How ridiculous can one get?
>Needless to say, disbelief is as old as the accured Shaitan himself.
>One wonders how Shaitan would have fared in this world
>had his house been divided against himself?
Nobody is telling you to disbelieve and nobody can take away your right to
worship your Creator in secular democratic societies. In fact, some developed
secular governments absorb the cost of performing Hajj duty for their
Muslim minority population. The Canadian government tops 70% of what a legally
registered Islamic charity collects from believers in the mosque. Off course
all the money is swallowed by the sellers/buyers of human souls who run it.
Ardaaga QabiilDiid.....
>Wassalam
Abdiwali M Ahmed
bashir ali (bas...@worldnet.att.net) writes:
>Secularism is an ideology or a belief that holds the
>system of "separation of religion and state affairs".
Why did not you start defining it this way in the first place? Anyway,
your points are answered in our rebuttal posted to sister Fatima. So, check
there if you are still thirsty to drink from Ardaaga QabiilDiid's well of
sanity.
Ardaaga QabiilDiid......
bashir ali
> Being a big man who lived for quite a while, i have
> suffered from this Islamic-goverment overkill which
> i was led to believe it is like " i have a dream" of
> later Martin luther King, the big dreamer. I have been
> seeing somali ismalists shouting on the top of their hearts
> for decades, yet i have never seen them taking any slight action or even
> proposing a single blue print of how this kind of goverment would look
> like.
Ahmed Barre, Allah sent the Qur'an for
whole mankind; however, if all the people
or the majority of them do not want or accept
the Qur'an as for guidance, does that mean
that the Qura'n failed?
Therefore, Allah is not now nor was He
*dreaming* when He created human being
for His worship. If people are fed up with
the Qur'anic teachings or they have "suffered"
the "over-kill" of the preaching of the Qur'anic
teachings, it will be their lost.
Allah does not need all of His creation
to accept of His Qur'anic teachings; we
are in need of Him and His Laws. Therefore,
Allah gave us a freedom to choose in what
governs us in our daily affairs both in public
or privite. Allah did not leave us in the dark
as to what to follow and what not to follow and
that is why we a Qura'nic teachings.
> I kind of think their nothing but punch of progammed and coded by some
> other foreign agents. these programmed islamists of ours need to be
> debuggged and decoded their mind once again to come their sense and to be
> compatible to year 2000.
Ahmed Barre, Al-hamduli-Allah that we have the Qura'nic teachings
in Books, on the computers.
The Qur'an is also *programmed* in our minds and we
can recite the Qur'an in memory and I do not think
nobody was/is/will be able to *debugged or decoded"
from our minds.
No matter what people do, whether or not they
*suffer over-kill" or whether or not they like
it or not, the Qura'nic teachings will stay in
this world as long as this world exists, even
up "to the year of 2000", insha-Allah.
> they read only the idea of others, but don't create anything.
Al-hamduli-Allah, we can read the "ideas" and
the detailed instructions left for us by our
prophet and his companions which have been
thoroughly preserved in many places.
> If the whole Islamic world turned to be Islamic goverments, i can
> assure you, our islamists will be still busy doing small stuff that
> serve no one's interest but only harbour trouble.
Ahmed Barre, I can also "assure you" that following
the Islamic teachings left for us by our prophet and
his companions were not really "small stuff that serve
no one's interest" and these teachings do not "harbour
trouble".
Just so that you know what I'm telling you, would you, at
least, read the teachings of our prophet and let me know
if you find in them any troublesome, would you?
> thus, i think these somali islamists must be debugged
> and decoded their minds to be free-thinking and respected
> human beings rather than a PC or a parot who only repeats
> what has been told to do. Trust me, the sooner the deprogram
> and decode proccess begins the faster the solution.
What kind of thinker person are you, Ahmed Barre?
If you think you are a "free-thinker", which I think
you are not, maybe you should consider not "debugging
or decoding" of other's *free-thinking*, mimicking or
"parroting" what their prophet left for them.
If you do not consider this, know that you are
no free-thinking person, but a dictator".
Bashir.
fat...@ppp.nasionet.net
In article <01be05ed$3c9f1840$27b622cf@user>,
"Ahmed Barre" <aya...@intergate.bc.ca> wrote:
> Dear Fatima:
>
> That was really profound and mind-blowing question? (to whom you suppose
> to believe). I bet you should believe the definition of your dictionery
> rather than believing the definition of the secularism amateurs--those who
> embraced the ideology yesterday. I kind of think you better take the
> information from the first source, not second.
Thanks. You are very generous.
> But hey, that doesn't mean we can't bought your preach wholesalely.
No one is forcing you to do that. Islam is not for 'sale'. Truth stands
out clear from Error. And blessed is the one who sees the Error for
what it is. You have a free will and a mind of your own. The choice is
therefore yours and yours alone.
>
> Being the one who began this thread, let me ask you if you have any vission
> of what Islamic goverment in horn Africa would look like other
> fantasy one which these Islamists have been advocating for all their
> lives.
That was exactly what I have been fishing for. But it does seem
quite a good No. of brothers, including yourself, have missed the point.
I put out this qestion so that we, as Muslims in the Horn, could come up
with constructive ideas and open an honest venue for discussion.
You see, vicegerency (or khilafa) is a position which is ordained by
Allah. So, it's the birthright of every human being to be a khalifa,
for as long as he is living on Earth.
"Behold, thy lord said to the angels: 'I will create a vicegerent on
earth." (2:30)
Bearing the above in mind, I would think twice before I called the
Islamists' wish to be governed by the Laws of Allah as 'fanciful'.
It's their birthright. They have a need and they know it. And this
is contained in the Shahada of 'La Ilaha Ila Allah'.
Now a Muslim who submits to this distinct Message is saying that there
is 'No Power worthy of worship but Allah'. The One who utters this
attestation is also saying:
Allah is My Lord and that I herewith do away with all false Lords.
Now, the one who affirms this Truth will only be lying to himself and
incurring Shirk if he allows the lordship of other powers.
The Earth belongs to Allah. And everything on it belong to Him. It is
Allah who has empowered man and made him a custodian of this earth.
'Behold, thy Lord said to the angesl: 'I will create a vecegerent on
earth.' (2:30)
He also said: 'On earth will be your dwelling place and your means of
livelihood For a time (2:36)
Whether that dwelling place is the Horn of Africa, South East Asia or
America is immaterial. The Earth is the sole property of Allah. The Owner of
this property has made rules and regulations for the smooth running of His
property, for He alone is the Souce of Infinite knowledge and Wisdom.
The second attestation of Truth after 'La ilaha ila Allah' is
'Muhammadan Rasulullah,'. In this we affirm Muhammad (SAW)'s Messengership,
not only as 'bearer of glad tidings,' , ' warner', ' a beautiful pattern of
conduct; and 'teacher' but also as Our Leader, for to the first
Believers who formed around him, he was the Centre, the Statesman,
the Warrior, the Judge. In other words, after Allah, Muhammad (SWA) was
the Human Authority, the Leader, a Living Islam, given the power of being
the Leader of the Believers.
"Verily those who plight their fealty to thee do no less than plight
their fealty to Allah" (48:10)
"Allah's Good Pleasure was on the Believers when they swore Fealty to
thee under the Tree." (48:18)
In his lifetime, the Prophet of Islam, the True Vicegent (Khalifa) he was,
not only islamacised the whole of Arabia but he also left behind a Community,
an Islamic Community that was worthy of Allah's Pleasure in which the
Believers distinguished themselves above the rest of humanity.
"Ye are the best of Peoples, evolved for mankind, enjoining what is right,
forbidding what is wrong, and believing in Allah." (3:110)
This Islamic Empire later expanded under the wise leadership of the
Khaleefu Rashidduun, and it was only after the Believers forgot Islam that the
expansion of this great Empire came to a standstill and dwindled into what's
today known as 'Muslim countries,' whereby every country has closed it's doors
to it's neighbors and brothes. What is so strange about these so called MUslim
countries is that the inhabitants are so concerned about the kufr-made
boundaries, that they have forgotten the Linmits set by Allah. Even
though they are exhorted to:
"...hold fast, all together, by the Rope of Allah..."
From the radiant history of Islam we learn that the Believers were successful
for as long as they adhered to the injunctions of Allah and recognised the
unity of Creation, the unity of Knowledge, the Unity of the Believers and the
unity of Word and Deed. And that the one who doesn't aspire for the
establishmet of Islam on earth is indeed donwgrading himself and
inadvertently telling Allah: 'Ya Allah, you made a mistake, I am not capable
of being your khalifa'.
Now, I come to the question of my question: The question of how:
We know the Muslim population of the Horn, namely, Somali, Ethiopia, Ertria,
Djbhouti, Sudan, are all divided along state-lines. The problem is
how does one join these seemgly diverse people unde the banner of Islam?
What will be the state of Ethiopia? The state of Somalia? What will become the
state of Eretreia and that of Djbouti? The state of Sudan? When you mesh all
these together what will be the state of the non-Muslim pupulations there?
What if a Leader emerged from any one of these countries? Will the people of
these countries from whom the leader did not emerge honour and follow the
leader if he came forth from anywhere but from their own country? And there
is the problem of language.
These are very daunting questions but, inshaAllah, they are no more difficult
than the state these countries find themselves in today. All it needs is
for the inhabitants of these lands to lead an examplary life, beginning with
the indidivual, trusting each other for the sake of Allah and having a
burnig wish of uniting under the banner of Islam.
Now on to the rest of the message:
> Being a big man who lived for quite a while, i have suffered from this
> Islamic-goverment overkill which i was led to believe it is like " i have
> a dream" of later Martin luther King, the big dreamer .
If you have 'suffered' from an Islamic-government that never did take
root in the Horn (your suffering being only in the imagination) I
shudder to imagine the extent of your pain as regards the man-made
blunders in the Horn. At least, some of us are beginning to realise
the need for Allah in our lives, i.e. if we really want to elevate
this pain of ours. I hope your one of us?
> I have been seeing somali ismalists shouting on the top of their hearts
> for decades, yet i have never seen them taking any slight action or even
> proposing a single blue print of how this kind of goverment would look
> like.
I fail to understand why your shifting the responsibility from your
own shoulders. Shouldn't you be also an Islamist? What's preventing
you from wanting to be governed by Allah? Doesn't Allah say that
we (as Muslims) are all witnesses as the Messenger was a witness
for us? How can you call yourself a Muslim and yet stand on the
side-lines? Waiting for others to do your job, is that right?
It goes without saying, but if you want the Islamists to succeed,
you and I, and everyone else have to be on it,too. We must all
say in unison: We want Allah! We want Allah! No use shifting
responsibility on others while we are not even willing to lift a
finger to help.
As for having a blue-print. We already have one. It's legislated by
Allah Himself and was put into effect by the Messenger of Allah and
his companions. So from history, we would know how it wuold look like.
It's already tested. And it has passed the test. Surely, there's no one
to prevent us from picking it up for use?
>
> I kind of think their nothing but punch of progammed and coded by some
> other foreign agents. these programmed islamists of ours need to be
> debuggged and decoded their mind once again to come their sense and to be
> compatible to year 2000.
Allah is beyond and above year 2000. And if I were you I wouldn't
call Allah's guidance a 'foreign agent'.
> they read only the idea of others, but don't create anything.
What ideas, are you talking about? And could you please be more specific
and tell us who is programming who? Is reverting to Allah and His
Word 'programming' by a 'foreign agent'? Has the Creator of Heaven
and Earth suddenly become a 'foreign agent'? to be shunned? Subhanullah!
> If the whole of the Islamic world turned to be Islamic goverments, i can > > >
> assure you, our islamists will be still busy doing small stuff that serve no >
> one's interest but only harbour trouble.
You seem to have a very low estimation of your brothers and kinsmen.
But mark my words, Allah has conferred a great favour on them by making
them Muslims and perfecting their religion for them. If you call that
'small stuff', be my guest. But with Allah this 'small stuff' is very
great.
> thus, i think these somali islamists must be debugged and decoded their
> minds to be free-thinking and respected human beings rather than a PC or a
> parot who only repeats what has been told to do. Trust me, the sooner the
> deprogram and decode proccess begins the faster the solution.
This is not funny, coming from a man who in his own words
'lived for quite a while'.
However, if living Islam means 'parroting' and being 'programmed,'
I would rather parrot my Lord and His blessed Messenger than fall into
the ignominy of aping some misguided humans who are themselves in dire
need of guidance.
Abdidhoof
Fatima wrote:
>>I wonder, who is more authentic of the two peddlars?
>The Originators who seem to know what they are doing?
>Or the new Converts?
>
>
Dear Fatima,
I am not sure about these "converts" you are talking about, are you saying that
I am a "convert" to Secularism ? I don't know about you, but If thats what you
are saying, then I should inform you that I was born and raised in a Secular
society, and that was a Somalia you seem to no longer remember or maybe never
seen.
We are Muslims but have always been a secular society, the only converts
amogst us is your group, the so-called Islamist, who seem to have
re-discovered anew a thousand years old Religion (the born again muslims of
Somalia !) and embraced with fanatical zeal, as uncompromising a zeal as that
of the newly converted, whats basically nothing but a political movement, who
like the warlords before them, is trying to fill the power vacuum that was left
by the Barre regime.
Now if I may ask, I wonder how long have you been practicing Islam in
yourcurrent state of religious mind ? Fatima, if you are Somali and you are
older than 25 years of age, its very likely that once upon not long ago, you
were not this much religious, but this is just a probability, so with a lot of
respect, if you don't mind responding , how long have you been as religious as
the way you are today ?
You know, the civil war has made a lot people very much Religious indeed, and I
know quite a few of these people, and you remind me of them..
I am asking you this personal question, because I think you said I have
"converted" to Secularism , and I am trying to prove which one of the two of us
is the new convert.
Nabad.
bashir ali
Bashir wrote:
> >The fundamental point of view of the the secularist ideology
> >is based on the detachment of religion (i.e. the Law of Allah)
> >from life's affairs.
Abdiwali wrote:
> Erroneous and misleading.
> bashir wrote:
> >Secularism is an ideology or a belief that holds the
> >system of "separation of religion and state affairs".
> Why did not you start defining it this way in
> the first place?
Abdiwali, if you *detach* or *separate* your religious
duties(the Law of Allah) from that of your daily life's
affairs, then you are a *secularist*, somone who practices
the *detachment* or *religion* from *life's affairs* both
in public and private affairs or what is called "separation
or religion and public/pravite affairs"
Therefore, I do not see the any difference in the two
definitions of secularism.
Bashir.
bashir ali
Fatima wrote:
> >No, brother Bashir's statement is neither 'erroneous' nor is it 'misleading'.
> >Truth may sometimes be a bitter bill to swallow, but it will always
> >remain the Truth.
Abdiwali wrote:
> But, the truth is that Bashir twisted the definition and objectivity of the
> disputed term. For the love of Allah or perhaps because of fear of the
> unknown, he clearly implied that if a nation adopts secularism, the
> legislation and legal prohibitions will force every one to
> abandon or comprise his/her religious beliefs.
For the love of Allah, yes, most defenitly.
For the fear of Allah, yes, most defenetly.
For the fear of the "unkown".....defenetly not.
And most defenitly, I do not fear the
secularists, even-though they have killed
so many Somalis and forced others in Somalia
into accepting their sacriligious movements
after denying their basic human rights.
> On the contrary, all those countries
> who faithfully implement secularism
> encourage the citizenry to be strong
> in their faith.
Really, do you mean the secularist countries
like the ones in Turkey and Algeria which
suppress their people's voice when they used
their military junta supported by their masters.
Bashir.
Abdirashid
> Dear Fatima:
> Being a big man who lived for quite a while, i have suffered from this
> Islamic-goverment overkill which i was led to believe it is like " i have
> a dream" of later Martin luther King, the big dreamer .
Dear Ahmed Yassin:
As a grown man, born and lived in Somalia even after the civil war, I never heard
of a Somali nation ruled Islamically or any of the Horns in that matter. It is therefore
your responsibility to subtantiate your claim. Just give the themporal durartion
and the name of that overkill government. Seriously, I am astonished by such
declation coming from a big man and friend of us who lived for quite a while.
Furthermore, this overloaded statement has come in the middle of heated debate
between a Somali Woman (Fatima) and blind believers in so-called secularism.
After awfully failing to challenge ideologically (including the definition of what they
are crying for), they are now starting asking personal questions; Age, date of
being religious, etc. What a shame for poorly equiped and yet predending being
representative sample for secularists!!!.
> I kind of think their nothing but punch of progammed and coded by some
> other foreign agents. these programmed islamists of ours need to be
> debuggged and decoded their mind once again to come their sense and to be
> compatible to year 2000.
Again, this is plainly a grave mistake. Particularly, someone like you who's
signiture is a verse of Qur'an [In uriidu ila-al islah ma astada'atu.Wamaa tawfiiqii
ilaa bilaah]. Calling Muslims in Somalia as "Programmed Foreign Agents" who
need to be debugged and decoded. Being decoded from what they believed in
for so long (Islam) from bottom of their heart, so they will be compatible to year
2000!!!. Ahmed Yassin, emotions and Islamists (Somalia or elsewhere)
weaknesses and shortcomings aside, the above assertion of yours demands an
obligatory clarification. The reason being, due to the ambiguity, one can easly
assume that you are calling for Somalis to abandon their faith as 2000 year is just
approaching us.
Please clarify without further deepening the debate into a wrong direction.
> they read only the idea of others, but don't create anything.
What Ideas of others? could be more specific?
Abdirashid
carr...@my-dejanews.com
Abdirashid<ae...@po-box.mcgill.ca> wrote:
>
> > Hypocrite.
> Dear Abdidhoof,
> Well, what do you expect me to say? descend to namecalling? No my friend!!.
Look
Dear Abdirashid,
First a well deserved disclaimer. I am in no way, shape, or form condoning
name calling. More so, I think it is nice of you to refrain such foolish act.
That said, I believe Mr. Abdidhoof had raised some valid points in his last
response to you. Maybe I looked in the wrong way, but I believe he had nailed
when he asked about our *status* as Muslims in Secular societies. While it is
true that he targeted you personally, his pointed argument applies to us all.
In the eyes of many, right or wrong, any consummation finger pointing would
only be considered as "The kettle calling the pot black." By that I mean,
we are all in the same boat given the fact that we are all under
jurisdiction that is not only alien but detrimental to Sharia.
In that context, I was actually hoping that you would address and give us
your take . Because,in my opinion, despite all the rhetoric and heated
debates that go on at this forum, the overriding fact is that we learn from
each other. That is why I feel that you, or any other brother to share with
us their opinion pertaining Muslims living in non-Muslim environment. To what
extent should we submit to the secular laws. Is it advisable that all migrate
back and head home? Because, let us face it, whether we like it or not, we
are here and should face reality as a group without dysfunctional prejudice
which would only exasperate our delimma.
Still, thanks for sharing with us the Origins of hypocrisy phenomena in Islam.
Carrabay.
fat...@ppp.nasionet.net
In article <19981102055914...@ng66.aol.com>,
abdi...@aol.com (Abdidhoof) wrote:
> Dear Fatima,
>
> ...I was born and raised in a Secular society,...
I was born in Somalia, but I wouldn't say I was born
in a secular society.
Alhamdulillah, I was born in a state of 'fitra', and not in
a state of denial (secularism).
Born to a God-fearing parents who named me Fatima, after
the daughter of the Prophet of Islam. My father's name,
may Allah bless his soul, was AbdiSalaam, the slave of Al Salaam.
His father was Mohammed, named after the beloved Messenger of
Allah, Muhammed, (SAW). My mother's father is Ahmad, her grandfather
was Omar, and so on and so forth...
I really don't want to bore you with my family tree
but when I look up at it I see nothing but Islam, top to bottom.
And I assure you I am not alone in this. Millions of Somalis
share this spiritual family tree. So much for secularism!
As for converting to Islam, I repeat, I've always been a Muslim,
alhamdulillah, born in a state of fitra and I never saw the
need to step out of my natural state. Please refer to my family tree.
I hope that answers your question.
Wassalam
Abdidhoof
Fatima wrote:
>As for converting to Islam, I repeat, I've always been a Muslim,
>alhamdulillah, born in a state of fitra and I never saw the
>need to step out of my natural state. Please refer to my family tree.
>
>I hope that answers your question.
>
>Wassalam
Dear Fatima,
I was not asking you about the names of your family tree, nor was I saying that
you have converted to Islam.
My question was simple and straight, and I think you understood it completely.
But since you have chosen to tell us about the Arabic names of the tree of your
family, instead of giving a response to my simple question, I shall respectfuly
assume that you are a recent convert to the Islamist Movement, or shall I say,
a member of the Born Again Muslims of Somalia (BAMS).
** Hmmmmm..., looks like sister Fatima is a BAM :) **
Hold on...., again I did not say that you have converted to Islam, I know that
like me and every other Somali, you were born a Muslim, names of the
grandparents and all, my question is and was about the "when" have you gotten
this Islamist Zeal ? thats the kind of conversion I am talking about.
Nabad.
agu...@hotmail.com
abdi...@aol.com (Abdidhoof) wrote:
> Do you
> >mean
> >that you will not pray with the rest of the Uma in a mosque?
> >
> >A. gulled
> >
>
> And Abdidhoof laughs and then writes back to him:
>
> Dear Guleed,
>
> It all depends on what do you mean by "Ummah", you see, I think I don't like
> you, because I think you owe me an apolology for calling me a hypocrite, which
> I am not, so as long as you are not willing to give that apology to me, I will
> never ever pray in the same Mosque with you.
>
> Now, go ahead and from that little hat of yours, pull an "haddiith" thats
> commanding me to pray with you in the same mosque :)
>
> As for me, I think I owe an apology to Ms. Fatima, because I honestly think
> that she is a good person and a true Muslim (nobody is perfect) and I have
been
> a little too "harsh" in the style of my criticism of her articles, so (with
my
> knees on the ground) I am saying to her:
>
> A) Cut and then Paste other people's ideas on the walls of this cave.
>
> B) called me a Hyprocrite and then denied.., and is still denying it.
>
> C) Wondering about why am I not willing to pray in the same Mosque as him.
>
> Nabad iyo qosol.
Are you trying to be witty here? I don't understand how someone who has not
injured anyone can be wanted to apologise. I never called you nor anyone a
hypocrite and I will not apologise.
Now, will you or will you not stand in a line with other members of the Muslim
community and pray behind an Imam?
A. Gulled
Abdiwali M Ahmed
bashir ali (bas...@worldnet.att.net) writes:
>And most defenitly, I do not fear the
>secularists, even-though they have killed
>so many Somalis and forced others in Somalia
>into accepting their sacriligious movements
>after denying their basic human rights.
Bashir, you are still coming for more ...let see what we can do for you.
Somalis are, by nature, secularized communities. Indeed, they are a product
of nomadic and semi-pastoral culture where the strictly religious demarcation
line between man and woman as you would like to see, had failed to emerge
in the fifteen hundred years of Islam on the Somali soil. This is so, because
Islam, as a faith for all races, does not oblige the non-Arab communities
to abandon their culture when it visits their country for people to embrace
it.
The typical Somali woman is free of the strict seclusion your brand of Islam
is advocating for and systematically rejects the veil paying no heed to the
distorted warnings. On the other hand, the Somali young men have access to
the unmarried young women for seductive conversations and courting. The
selection process for marriages are mostly concluded in this free market
environment. The phenomenon of pre-arranged marriages is seen in the cases
where the father of the bride exhibits greediness and lust for wealth. Both
of these points contradict what you seem to be standing for and can constitute
testimonial evidences of the secular life in the Somali person.
The vicegerecy concept you are peddling around here was/is confined to the
Somali traditional clergy "wadaad" whose main preoccupation is to attend
religious matters such as marriage, quran teaching, burial ceremonies,
rain-searching rituals in dry seasons, supernatural medical remedies for
illness and affliction, you count them. Never there has been a known case
where a Somali wadaad undertook a proselytizing mission and made a success
out of it. On the other hand, he has little input in the traditional law,
xeer, which can render a fair judgement on every conceivable conflict
inherently, and on its own merit except matters of religious nature. The
portion of xeer called "gar" which can be roughly equivalent to the legal
jargon "examination on discovery", is handled by elders who are selected on
the basis of one's oratorical skills and clear logical thinking and not on
how one can recite quran or recall the prophet's recitations . All these
facts whether you blindly deny them or not, are strong indicatives of the
nature of the Somali secularism that separates the mundane earthly matters
from religion and faith.
Enough for you for day.
Ardaaga QabiilDiid...
>Bashir.
agu...@hotmail.com
cx...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Guled A. Mohamed) wrote:
> Starting with the Joke:
>
> Hey, what is this? Is it a " GULEDPHOBIC"? :>
> You are so fast with the words, but not fast enough to recognize the
> differences of the two names.
> I am Guled A. Not A. Gulled . Sorry starting with the joke, I felt an
> obligation to do so before you continue any discussion with my " SAMI".
Sami, don't you think that Gulleds, Guleds and Guleids should have a peaceful
Anti-Guledphopia community?
Abdirashid
>Dear Abdirashid,
> First a well deserved disclaimer. I am in no way, shape, or form condoning
> name calling. More so, I think it is nice of you to refrain such foolish act.
> While it is true that he targeted you personally, his pointed argument applies to us all.
Dear Carrabay:
Quite frankly, were I the only target; then it would have been far less devastating. He
cruely targeted whoever one day of his/her life raised an Islamic voice by saying I need
to be ruled according to my faith principles (call them Islamists if you wish). You can
check it again but that is undeniable fact. Paradoxically,Not too long ago, when he was
referred to read (and just read) a Quranic Surah, he interpreted it as being called
Hypocrite even after bro Guled's clarification. Now, same man (Abdidhoof?) so openly
charged all Somali Muslims (Islamists) being hypocrites!!!. I can not think of nothing more
unislamic than this kind of accusations.
And if this kind of attitude prevails long enough, the future of this forum may be following
the foot steps of the former Somali Nation. That unfortunate nation has been destroyed
by few power hugery of us. The end result was what?. Somalia (WHOLE SOMALIA)
has earned an unenviable image of being the home of human suffering in various forms.
The underlined word here is IMAGE. The image of this forum, in my opinion, will not be
different than that of Somalia, if elements like Abdidhoof, Fadyoon and likes did not stop
accusing others as being HYPORITES, KUFAARS, respectively. Would you differ?
> In that context, I was actually hoping that you would address and give us
> your take . Because,in my opinion, despite all the rhetoric and heated
> debates that go on at this forum, the overriding fact is that we learn from
> each other. That is why I feel that you, or any other brother to share with
> us their opinion pertaining Muslims living in non-Muslim environment. To what
> extent should we submit to the secular laws. Is it advisable that all migrate
> back and head home? Because, let us face it, whether we like it or not, we
> are here and should face reality as a group without dysfunctional prejudice
> which would only exasperate our delimma.
I entirely agree with you about the importance of those points. And Allah willing, I may
revisit them after making some necessary research.
Abdirashid
> Carrabay.
faadhyoon
Ya salaam, afkaaga caano Kanguro lagu qabay,
Zindiiq zindiiq amaanaya
horta waa loo baahnaa qof
sida adiga oo kale runta u sheega afartan wadaad ee gadhka-dheer leh ee
qurbaha ku wareeray ee waliba isu haysta in ay diinta iyagu
masuul ka yihiin, sida qaldana diintina u fahmay oo maqlay uun waxba la
qarxiyaa iyo waxbaa la dilaa oo xukun lagu helaa.
Run mise kufr iyo irtidaad ,gadhku waa sunihi rasuulka salaahu caleehi
wasalam isakaana ku amray umdiisa axaadiis saxiixa lafd amar ah sida (ucfuu,
wafiruu..),qurbaha faasiq cilmaani ah uun baa ku wareera qofka muumin meelu
joogaba alle iyo masaajidu ku xiranyahay,fahmiga aanu ufahnayna waa fahmiga
saxiixa ee ah kitaabka alle iyo sunada rasuulka iyo sunad alkhulfaa
alraashidiin almahdiyiin,qarxiga iyo dilku waa jihaad si ay kalimada alle
usareeyso.
Waxase is waydiin mudan
anigu abidkay ma arag wadaad ama xerow u rooraaya xukun dowladeed oo raba
in uu dal u taliyo, waxaan ogaa oon aan aqoon u lahaa wadaad caruurta
dugsi-quraan wax ku bara habeenkiina masaajidka ka shalaada,laakiin
abidkay ma arag wadaad kitaabkii tuuray oo intu qori qaatay oo hadana
madaxa g'o weyn ku duubtay kabacdi nagu bartay sida xabada loo rido oo
imika mooryaantii dhaca iyo dilka uga horeeya.
taasi waa tii suufiyada iyo iyo suurada xun ay ka bixiyeena ahlu islaamka
,kitaabka alle lama tuurin bal waa loo gargaaraya si uu isagu uxukumo
qorikuna waa si loo xaaqo dawaaqiida alle xukum ku haysata alle wuxu yiri
fii surat alacraaf :(alla lahu alkhlaqa wal amara )abuuritaanga iyo
xukumkaba isgaa leh subxaanah wa tacaalaa,cimmamada madaxa lgu duubayna waa
ficil ka sugnaaday rasuulka salaahu caleehi wasalamiyo saxaabada sida abu
dajana aale raali haga noqdee oo goobtii uxud maro cas madax ku duubtay.
caalamkana maanta khaasatan dunida muslimka ma jiro dal uu xukunka u hayo
wadaad laga reebo suudan.
run baad sheegtay adoo beenlow ah maanta aduunk muslimka kufaar murtadiina
ah baa xukumta oo dadka muslimkin a ah ku xukumta qawaaniinta gaalada oo
baniaadan xun oo futo ku xaar le ah udajiyay (UFIN LAKUM WALIMA tacbuduun
min DUUNI laahi)taasi waa ayad qoraan ah oo nabiyulaahi ibraahim ku yiri
qoomkiis macneheeduna waa qurun baa tihiin idinka iyo waxad caabidaysaan
,waxa jirta fatwa uqoray sheekh mohamad ibn ibraahim alsheekh muftigii hoere
ee jasiiradar axima hu laahu ooah ((qofka ku dajiyay qaanuun ka laciinka
mansilada(MEESHA) wuxu ku soo dajiyay alruux alamin (jibril) qalb mohamad
(QURAANKA) oo uu ka keenay rabika aduunka si uu ugu digo dadka aduunaga waa
kaafir murtad )waayo musharic buu iska dhigay taasi waa xaqii alle ,alle
kaliya baa wax xalaaleya waxna xaraantimeeya,dawaaqiiduna furuujtii iyo
dhiigii iyo xoolihi muslimka baneeysteen qawaaninta qurunka ah awgeed
Maanta soomaaliya waxa yaala maaha wax wadaad gadh-dheer leh
qabtaa uu xalin karo markaas aniga waxa talo iga ah. wadaadkaas gadhka
dheeri intu helaayo wuxu cuno iyo wuxu cabo waa nabad geli karaa laakiin
maalinta xeradii ba'day waa maalinta uu isku fara gashado xukunk iyo
siyaasad aanu shaqo ku lahayn!
taasi inay been tahay waxa cadaynaya maanta dadka soomalida ihi qofka kaliya
ay aaminaan waa qofka diinta leh iyo meelhay xukumaan oo nabad ah,cunto iyo
caabitaan waa waxay unoolyihiin dadka diinta alle ka fog laakiin muslimka
waxa loo abuuray si uu alle ucaabido diintiisana ugu gargaaro,hukumka iyo
siyaasad maxaa udiiday muslimka faajir iyo mulxid kasatana ubaneeyay taas
wax lagaa weydiin maayo jawaabtuna waa waxad argi doontaa.
Waxaad maanta isoo xasuusisay nin aad magac ugu leh dunida muslimka iyo
dunidan gaaladaba oo magaciisa la yidhaado, Mawlana Abu 'Ala Mawdudi, oo
u dhashay dalka Hindiya, waxa uu qoray ilaa afar boqol oo buug oo ka kala
sheekaynaya dhamaanba aduunyadan aynu ku nool nahay, ha noqoto xag
diineed, dhaqaale, wax soo saarka, sayniska, technologyada, amamba xaga
nolosha bini aadamka iyo xuquuqday kala mudan yihiin. waxa buugaagtaas
lagu turjumay afaf badan oo kala ah, English,Arabic,French,Italian,Dutch
and several African languages.
buugaagtaas qaar ka mid ah oo aan hada haysto waxa ku jira buug la
yidhaahdo magaciisa, Let's be Muslims. buugan waxa jira chapter uu kaga
hadlaayo muslimiinta waxaana la yidhaahdaa "Muslims and true Muslims"
waxa aad mooda in uu ula jeeday gadh-dheereyaashan seef-la-boodka
noqday.
wuxu yidhi:
Moulana abu'almowdudi alle haw naxiiriisto wuxu ahaa ragii ugu horayay oo
ogaaday cudurka umada muslimka iska iyo sayid qudub oo cadeeyay Shirk
alxaakimiya ay mushrikiinta xilagani alle hukumka ku is barbardhigeen
gaaleyeyn mushhrikintaas ,kitaabkiisa let's be muslims wuxu ku sheegaya in
xukum alle la qaato bal xujad buu kugu yahay ee markhaanti kuu nqon maayo si
aad u aflagaadayso dadka muslimiinta oo xukum ilaahay uhalgamaya.
(There are some sort of people among our Muslim community
bashir ali
> bashir wrote:
> >And most defenitly, I do not fear the
> >secularists, even-though they have killed
> >so many Somalis and forced others in Somalia
> >into accepting their sacriligious movements
> >after denying their basic human rights.
> Bashir, you are still coming for more ...let
> see what we can do for you.
Abdiwali, I do not need you to do for me
anything, but let us see what you have.
> facts whether you blindly deny them or not, are strong indicatives of the
> nature of the Somali secularism that separates the mundane earthly matters
> from religion and faith. Enough for you for day.
It is true Abdiwali that by rural/pastoral settings,
Somalis have been "secularized" environmentally, but
their *natural* constitution with which they were created
in their mother's womb, the faculty of knowing, following
and accepting Allah and His Law, with which Allah has created
for mankind, is lost, due to the separation from the real
source of their strength, honor, convictions, and aspirations of
this *natural constitution" of theirs and to the jarring discordance
between their daily life affairs and the teachings of Islam, we can
now see in our own eyes how their conditions of waste, defiance,
weakness, negligence, deterioration, and pessimism overshadows
their life as Muslims.
Abdiwali, Somalis like you, never knew the need to enrich
their lives as Muslims with their original and pure Islamic
nature, in order to deepen and further strengthen their lives
as Muslims. Instead, people like you, keep following their
false handed-down sentimentalism, the un-Islamic "traditional
law" in Somalia.
By studying the Qur'an, the Book of Allah, anyone
can easily find the course of life to which Allah
invites us all, His vicegerecy on earth, but Somalis
like you, Abdiwali, have chosen to follow, instead,
the path to perdition, because people like you have
no eyes to see(or refused to see) the vicegerecy Allah
created for mankind and people like you, Abdiwali, have
no firm will to believe this vicegerecy and people like
you, Abdiwali, have no strong obedience for Allah, both
personal and social virtue.!
Bashir
Guled A. Mohamed
(agu...@hotmail.com) writes:
> cx...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Guled A. Mohamed) wrote:
>
>> Starting with the Joke:
>>
>> Hey, what is this? Is it a " GULEDPHOBIC"? :>
>> You are so fast with the words, but not fast enough to recognize the
>> differences of the two names.
>> I am Guled A. Not A. Gulled . Sorry starting with the joke, I felt an
>> obligation to do so before you continue any discussion with my " SAMI".
>
> Sami, don't you think that Gulleds, Guleds and Guleids should have a peaceful
> Anti-Guledphopia community?
>
> A. Gulled
>
Assalaamu Caleykum " SAMI"
I tried to make some clarification of this problem earlier but it seems
the number of this people is getting higher. When they see the name
Gulled ( or Guled) they start loosing the control of their typing. I do not
know if a mistake or not.
Any way thanks for coming, to put more light of this problem. I hope they
get the message today otherwise we will have to get together and start
acting how to create the peacefully anti- guledphopia community you
suggested. :) :)
Wassalaamu Caleykum Waraxmatullaah.
Abdidhoof
A. Gulled wrote:
>Now, will you or will you not stand in a line with other members of the
>Muslim
>community and pray behind an Imam?
No, Imaam McCarthy , I am not, and have never been a member of the Communist
Movement.., no sir, never !
J.J.Jama
bal amuurtan eega
oo haddaa Seef la bood Fadhyoon iyo Sir Ugaas ma waxa
ay isku haystaan xoola aysan lahayn (Kangaruu), bal sidan
aan idiinku kala qaybiyo :-
Fadhyoon cadka qaado Hilibka Kangaruuga
ileen seeftaada wax tar kale ma lahee
Sir Ugaas Caanaha qaado cidaa doonto ku hab.
Did anyone notice the common factor between
Fadhyoon and Ugaas. The Kangaroo??
We Need more study the effect of Kangaroo on Human minds!!!
and behavior.
Jama
J.J.Jama
bal amuurtan eega
oo haddaa Seef la bood Fadhyoon iyo Sir Ugaas ma waxa
ay isku haystaan xoola aysan lahayn (Kangaruu), bal sidan
aan idiinku kala qaybiyo :-
Fadhyoon cadka qaado Hilibka Kangaruuga.!
illeen seeftaada wax tar kale ma lahee
Sir Ugaas Caanaha qaado cidaa doonto ku hab.!
Ahmed Barre
I can't agree you more that both these two weirded guys ( faadhyon and
Hebelkaa Ugaas) love kangaroo but hey there is something else they have in
common. It is both of them are fanatics and die hard exteremist. In my
opinion these guys must be put in a death row. Don't u think??
[In uriidu ila-al islah ma astada'atu.Wamaa tawfiiqii ilaa bilaah]
Ahmed Yassin
J.J.Jama <ja...@inforamp.net> wrote in article
<36414166...@inforamp.net>...