Is the issue Isaq vs. Ogaden?
Mohamed Omer
The issue is not what Udub said in his infamous deragtory remarks against
Isaqs. Quitely frankly, his verbal abuse is the least of my concern.
Whether ishas been provoked or it is Fraudian slip of the tongue is just
besides the point, at least for me personally.
The reason I repost his remarks is a) simply to remind him that he belongs
merely to known group, an not a universal chief as he like us to believe .
b) to gauge the public opinion of his kin. Because it is said the moral
responsibility lies on not only those who committed the crime but also
those who kept silent and went along with it.
So far the responses, well, had played into my hand. By that I mean, great
effort has been made is to diffuse or weaken the allegation and counter
allegation by simply blaming both sides. And as expected not a single
person has come forward to lay blame on Udub, at least on this particular
incident. ( for the record, back in April of 1995,a lot of Isaaqs have
said udub's recation was justified, and a lot people including udub know
that fact.)
Now, is the issue really Isaq vs.Ogaden, as one caver put it. Absolutely
not. Power to the Ogadeni people. And to Udub too.
What seems might be the problem then? . The irony is those who fail the
simplest litmus test of *Somalism*, are the ones who sing *Oh! Somalia*
here at SCS.. If one is least bit outraged by the assertion of elimination
( fantasy or not) of significant portion of Somalis , how he could
possibly preach of a nationhood.An oxymoron isn't, it? And naturally, the
second question is how can those ones assure the rest of Somalis, such as
Hawiye, Samaroon,Biyo Maal, Issa, Barwani, Rahanwein Tumaal, Samale among
others, that Isaaqs and ONLY ISAQS are targeted for the *final
solution*(massacre). Assurance is all they need to dispel the Somali
adage of:
*Nin qayrkii loo xiirayoo soo qoyso adiguna*
That is the moral of the debate, which I am afraid is either inadevrantly
lost or deliberately neglected.
Therefore, since the line are drawn and well defined( based on renewal
vows of clan alliegence) isn't it the time we all restrain from enaging
in hypocrisy and fake Nationalism.
Ps. I have no problem with Udub or Ogaden. I just intend to check the
source of Nationalism songs.....Period........
Still working hard on keeping the record straight.
Hayan.......
faisal hassan
> The irony is those who fail the
> simplest litmus test of *Somalism*, are the ones who sing *Oh! Somalia*
> here at SCS..
You don't want to be part of Somalia? Then, get out and leave Somalia
alone? Take your carro reer hebel? No more quarrelling? If that's, what
you want who is preventing you not to leave. I highly reccomend that you
leave. No more been iyo sheeko ciyaal? Want represent your clansmens
destiny? Then, leave! Period. If you want to enter the rest of other
carros you're required to enter with passport (verse vica) The Midgan
should also be given the right to decide whether they want to be with you
guys or want to join the rest Somalis? If, you don't want to be part of
Somali people. Then, leave and we will work with you to separate your
carro? Period. No more blame of Darood this Darood that..... You want to
control your destiny. you now go...now go...now go...Period.
If one is least bit outraged by the assertion of elimination
> ( fantasy or not) of significant portion of Somalis , how he could
> possibly preach of a nationhood.An oxymoron isn't, it?
Blaming others for what you personally have done it? Look at yourself?
Somali people want citizens who will admit their mistakes and be
responsible citizen. No one here at scs is advocating central government.
If, you and your clansmen want to life with peaceful co-existence with the
rest Somalis. Somalia would love to have as broters and sisters. However,
if you prefer to be with your own; That is your choice and we'll respect,
take your carro and leave. No problem! All of us will work with you to
separate Carro Isaaq from the rest Somalis? If that is, what you want, you
and your clansmen? We Somalis, want to build trusting relationship
between all Somali clans and if your clansmen does want to life with the
rest of the Somalis; then, we respect your wishes get out and leave us
alone. This is final, you don't need us, then, get out and leave!!!!
>And naturally, the
> second question is how can those ones assure the rest of Somalis, such as
> Hawiye, Samaroon,Biyo Maal, Issa, Barwani, Rahanwein Tumaal, Samale
among others, that Isaaqs and ONLY ISAQS are targeted for the *final
> solution*(massacre). Assurance is all they need to dispel the Somali
> adage of:
You left out Digil, midgan among others? All these Somali clans will take
their destiny into their hand. No more cheating and Af-miinshaarnimo! They
will represent their clans? No one could subjugate, suppress and deny
their God given right? The final message is if any clan wants to be part
of a union a Somali union that's, All clans must be equal. And true
conciliation process must take place? No more "We, alone are victims" All
Somali clans are victims? If you don't need the rest of Somalis, no one
needs you and let historians record your choice. Make your mind and leave;
Those Somalis who want to build a nations for Somalis would have to build
a trusting relationship among ourselves. So, leave us that's if you don't
want; The rest Somali clans have to concern their carros and build a state
for themselves, that's, if they want to share something with each others;
No more lies, deception, and falsehood. We will work with you and say to
you goodbye and take your carro and leave us!!!!!!
> That is the moral of the debate, which I am afraid is either inadevrantly
> lost or deliberately neglected.
Ever since I have been a regular reader, all I have been reading from you
guys was "we" not part of Somalia? Then, leave and take with your
carro!!!!period. One problem solved. However, we will work with the
details and where your bounder would lie? We want only to take your own
carro because others don't want to leave their brothers and sisters? So,
make your choice?
> Therefore, since the line are drawn and well defined( based on renewal
> vows of clan alliegence) isn't it the time we all restrain from enaging
> in hypocrisy and fake Nationalism.
Welcome to the world of reality. Somali nationalism is death. It has been
death for almost seven and more years. Honest and equality must be
emphasized. REER WALIBA WAA DAWLAD!
> Ps. I have no problem with Udub or Ogaden. I just intend to check the
> source of Nationalism songs.....Period........
No one is going to beleive your NONSENSE and your naivity of
underestimating scs readers? Leave Somali and Somali alone until you make
your choice?
> Still working hard on keeping the record straight
> Hayan.......
You are making yourself fool. What records? Do you recall the language of
your gang and how they are hostile to Somali people; peace loving,
patient, and willing to build Somali from its ashes. What have you done
almost 2 years. Trashing and insulting Darood this Darood that....You are
kidding; you don't care the rest Somali clans whether be [Hawiye, Darood,
Dir, Samaroon, Digil, Rahawayne, Midgan, and Tumaals] All you want to do
is create more problems for all of us; divide the Somalis and continuesly
arguing that you're the only victim in the Somali crisis. Wake up; we have
been silent for too long; No more get out and leave-make your wishes!
Nabad
Faisal Hassan.
'hayan' Mohamed A Omer
On Thu, 30 Jan 1997, faisal hassan wrote:
>
> You left out Digil, midgan among others?
The correct way of saying Midgaan is SAMAALE.
No comment on the rest of your emotionally driven incoherent garbage.
Besides, I am dealing with your Master, Udub..... so behave.
Hayan.
>
>
MUHAMMED HUSSEIN
In article
<Pine.PTX.3.95c.97013...@carson.u.washington.edu>
Mohamed Omer <om...@u.washington.edu> writes:
>Now, is the issue really Isaq vs.Ogaden, as one caver put it. Absolutely
>not. Power to the Ogadeni people. And to Udub too.
Read the following and tell the audience with your own words the answer to
your question "Now, is the issue really Isaq vs Ogaden [?]". At the bottom
of this post of yours dated "Wed, 15 Feb 1995 13:52:24 -0800" you say
"Finaly we are not blood brothers with the Ogadens as you said it. Quite
the contrary. We are perenial enemies." In this note, your "Dung Beetle
Company" called Mohamed Abdullahi all kinds of names whose only crime was
to ask you, Mohamed Omer, and the "Dung Beetle Company" whose mission was
to insult the Ogaadeen people to stop it. Are you stupid to now talk about
"Power to the Ogaadeen, power to the Udub, blah, blah, blah, ...."
The Udub, your Chief Forever.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
In article <Pine.PTX.3.91a.95...@carson.u.washington.edu>
Mohamed Omer <om...@u.washington.edu> writes:
>From: Mohamed Omer <om...@u.washington.edu>
>Subject: Mohamed Abdillahi, what now?
>Date: Wed, 15 Feb 1995 13:52:24 -0800
> Mr Mohamed,
> You keep intercepting my messages to the other people. I Intended
> to ignore the whole thing, but when you became self appointed spokes
>person for the Faqash( Ogaden,etc), you have got my attention. By now, you
>had reached or closing in at the threshhold(breaking point), as you are
>trying relentlessly to defend your multiple personalities, multiple
>idendities and multiple fronts(both inside and out side Somaliland.).
>Nevertheless, I will give you your medicine and wo'nt make any easier for
>you.
> First, you jumped in while I was exercising my rights by
participating
>the nomination of the future president of Somaliland. In the process, you
>had derailed the significat debate and dragged it into your obsessed
>topic "Egal". Incase you do not realize it yet, you have got
>all the possible milage out of this topic. Fraknly, evrybody but you
>got tired of this Egal issue.
>
> Even though, I will regret later, let me say a couple things about
>your favorite issue.For your inforamtion, I don't care about Egal.
>I wish he leaves office tomorrow. But at the same time, since he
>is currently the leader of the place which I call home, I am
>obliged to respect him.My freind that is called civility. We canot all
>be presidents. Some of us have to be the ruled. Further more, when I
>talk about him leaving office, that is just merely my oponion. He
>was chosen by the Somaliland people,and only them can decide if
>goes or stays. And yes, they will have my approval no matter the out come.
> It is well established that you have something against Egal. Please
>deal with him, as Iam not Egal. You will not see me forcing you to like
>him, so, please do the reciprocity for me.
> As your descion of becoming a spokes person for the Faqash, it
>your is right and I have no objection . Since you cut in my message to
>Udub, let me rebuttle breifly.
> Thanks for completing the mad mullahs peom. Unfortanetly it was
>unwarrented. I intentionally chose those particular verses. Why, Because
>frankly I do not care what he did to the Marjeerteen,Ogaaadeen or the
>British.
> If you wanted to know why I hated the so called Sayed, it is bceause
>he committed crime against my people, not my clan, as you recklessly put
>it. Idoor is a term used by the Ogadeens when refering to to the isaqs. And
>Habar yonis is included. It was obvious you failed to grasp that. While
>we are on the subject here is another one of his peoms
>
> " Wad Isaaqa dila ku jira Weysadan eh
> Wab markaan ka siiyo ayaa indhaha wahab ka duulaayeh
> Mana waasho mana wareero naxariissna waan kala wareegnaaye.
> copmltetion not reqiured.
> Thanks also for telling the subcaln of Udub, even though I could not
>care less.
> This might suprise you, but Iam begining to quetion your affiliation
>with the Habar Yonis. One canot become a Muslim simply because his parents
>were. In the same token, one canot become Habar Yonis, because his father
>is one. One has to share their pain. You said Ogaden never
>harmed HabarYonis.Also, one has to join in their struggle. I saw
>Habr Yonis fought for Somaliland against Faqash. Still they are
>fighting for what is right, which is to build a nation"Somaliland."
>You are aware that they ostracizced those who went back to
>Mugadisho. Abdirahamn Tuur is not in and will not be in Burou.
>Obviously, you did not demeostarte that chracter.
> Finaly we are not blood brothers with the Ogadens as you
>said it. Quite the contrary. We are perenial enemies.
> Peace.
What next now ?
Udub.
--
Mohamed Ahmed M. Atto
'.... The situation at the Awareh wells was said to be "very tense."
The tribes in the Protectorate were not allowed to own rifles, but certain
number were smuggled in.
The Ogaden who dwelt in the protected area of Ethiopia were said to obtain
arms from the Ethiopians.
Most of the tribes in British Somaliland belonged to the large tribal
group of Ishaak, whereas the Ogaden belonged to the tribes of Darod.
Feeling had always run high between the two, but now the ancient animosity
was grately enlarged by the fact that the Ogaden were selling water at the
Awareh wells for ten rupees a drum. If the incoming Ishaak tribes did not
have the money, they and their herds died. The government feared a
full-scale tribal war. In the manner of this country, there were any
number of additional factors - tribal and personal jealousies too
complicated for us to penetrate. But the main factor in the warring of the
tribes could be expressed in one word. Biyu, Water. Each day the clouds
drifted in shreds across the sky. But no rain fell.
"In sha'Allah,"the Somalis repeated, eying the clouds.
"If God wills it."
From Margaret Laurence's " the prophets' camel bell"
--
CAVE _ * _ _ * _ _ * _
ARTS \/0 0\/ \/0 0\/ \/0 0\/
etc.. ( ) ( ) ( )
/ ! ! \ / !
Rashid Adam
Hayan,
Ragaan ku Isiraa kolkay arkaan, kaagaas oo kaloo habawsan waxay odhan jireen.
War Iidoor maxaan kala murmaa Oonba wuu diliye? !!!
Baroortu Orgiga ka wayn. Udub mucaaradiniisu waa qiiq isku qarin aad wadaane,
maad sheekada dhab u cadaysataan.
Ninkii maalintaa kaa siteen laga sad qaadaynin
Sawd gaban ah baa loo ceshaaye laguma sooyaansho.
Raage Ugas.
'hayan' Mohamed A Omer
On 31 Jan 1997, MUHAMMED HUSSEIN wrote:
>
>
> The Udub, your Chief Forever. ( keep dreaming)!
>
It is sad that you have spent so much time digging USENET data and could
not find something irrational as yours from me . Go back and dig some
more, because you have failed big this time.
Based of this flop, apparently I have given more credit than your actual
intelligence. Since, you have demonstrated genetical incomptance, let me
try to explain it as simple as possible.
First, unlike you, I am brave to deal with my record. What I said back
then, I am still saying. Mark it.
Over the past 500 years Ogaden and Isaqs were enemies. Sure there were
times of relative peace, but for the most the two were at war. Geela Isaaq
carro Ogaadeen nabad kuma Daaqin. Ka Ogaadeena sidoo kale. is that clear
to you.....
Be that as it may, that doesn't warrant me to call Ogadenis PIGS,
Something you call the *Iidoors*. Even at war time, people respect each
other, and I was not expecting to explain to this moral ethic code of
conduct to grown man like you. But, hey, as the saying goes ninkii noolow
maxaa aragti kuu laaban.
Now would you be decent enough to apologies and desist running around and
talking nonsense such as Warac made me to do this..... it was Awgas.
Oh!!! I lost control because of that Mohamed Omer Dung beetle flamings.
(BTW, recycling other cavers smut words is getting little old, come upwith
your own.) Yada yadaa yadaa.......... No more excuses.... ok!!!!!
In retrospect, I am proud my efforts of pressing you to be realistic.
When I join SCS at the beginning of 1995 you were nostalgic about your
private good old days and writing about Mogadisho, the Jewel of Indian
ocean among other fantasies.. Now, thanks to me, all of that halucination
is cured and finally you had accepted of *Ogadeenimo*. We will never have
any quarrel if you stay at your quarters. Promise. I wish you and your
loyal troops ( the Udub wanna be's, such as that xaar from SA) accept
that fact. It is rather silly trying to hide under identity ( THE BELOVED
SOMALIA) which you have obliterated. Sorry Somalis..... blame udub's
uncle, his enternal hero, Afweyne.
As for now, I made my point, and will no longer entertain to this
particular thread. But of course, I will be around ( Allah willing) and
will make sure that you remain at your legit teritory, Z O N E F I V E
aka Waaxda shanaad.....
foot note. When I am exposing you and your followers, my target audiance
are the rest of Somalis....... I am sur you know that. or now you know.
Have a nice day.
Hayan. The record keeper.
>
>
>
>
> --
>
>
MUHAMMED HUSSEIN
In article <5cusq0$p...@freenet-news.carleton.ca>
ah...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Mohamed Ahmed M. Atto) writes:
>The tribes in the Protectorate were not allowed to own rifles, but certain
>number were smuggled in.
>The Ogaden who dwelt in the protected area of Ethiopia were said to obtain
>arms from the Ethiopians.
>Most of the tribes in British Somaliland belonged to the large tribal
>group of Ishaak, whereas the Ogaden belonged to the tribes of Darod.
> From Margaret Laurence's " the prophets' camel bell"
Atto,
Later,
"Haile Selassie himself came to Harar in May and summoned Somali notables
to a meeting that lasted all night. He told them he was the ruler of all
the Negroes in the Horn and urged them to join the struggle against the
whites. Admitting that conditions in the Ogaden were not good, he claimed
'ma non e tutte colpa mia', blaming instead, as was his custom, local
officials. He then made a series of promises for reforms, and asked the
nomad chiefs to help the Ethiopian army defend their country. Given a
chance to respond, the Ogaden did not mince words. Ahmed Asci, the first
to speak, said he saw no reason why the Somali should fight the Italians,
when it was the Ethiopians who called them dogs, abused their women and
killed their animals. A youthfull Makhtal Dahir, who was to lead the
uprising in 1963, objected to the agreement that allowed the Somali from
the British colony to enter the Haud. 'If it is wished that the Somali
become sincere friends of the Abyssinians, then the English subjects
should be obliged to move out of the Ogaden immediately,' he declared."
From: National and class conflict in the Horn Of Africa,
-John Markakis-
Regards,
Udub.
--