Carro Dhulbahante/Warsangali
Said Ibrahim
Dear Faisal, I agree with you that carro Dhulbahante/Warsangali need to
be very careful in their desire to join the emerging clan-states within
somalia. However, I believe that the concept of Puntaland presents to
these clans a new opportunity to re-assess their position and to
negotiate for a clear decentralized system of equal representation and
no domination. If Puntaland offers that prospect, they should consider
going with that. If clan politics is bad and shouldn't matter, as some
would claim, then the concept of Somaliland or Puntaland should be
shelved, and the greater, more realistic goal of united somalia should
be pursued. But we all know that that is unlikely to happen.
Therefore, these regional mini-states are valid starts, if they can be
sustained. If clan-based ideology is the leading principal in this
mini-state agenda, then for carro Dhulbahante/Warsangali it would make
more sense to go with the Puntaland idea. But not without a clearly
defined objective and relationship terms.
If 30 years of united somalia can not justify the concept of greater
somalia, I think 30 years of shared British colonialism should not
provide as a moral reason for unity.
We really need to start from the beginning, and the beginning means
regional, clan-based community leadership and organizations that should
eventually coalesce into greater regional solidarity. Slicing the
somali state into mini-states irrespective of the nature of the
communities that make up these mini-states is a recipe for future
genocidal events (a self-repeating african dilemma).
This is not to say that carro Dhulbahante/Warsangali should reject the
Somaliland concept. all it means is that they should have a control as
to what they getting into, and their security and clan interests should
be very clearly defined and pre specified. Currently, the
disorganization, lack of a defined position, and the lack of trustworthy
leaders among these clans makes this task almost impossible.
Aidid.
faisal hassan
Aideed or Said Ibrahim,
If you're that Ogaadeen friend of mine-You've no business what goes on in
Carro Dhulbahante and Carro Warsangeli. However, if you happen to be a
Dhulbahante or Warsangeli-you've the right to propose a better solutions
for our clans and the rest of Somali clans. Moreover, do not change thread
or threads, submit your ideas under the series, if you got something to
say! Please do say under this specific thread. Also, I am not complaining
the new thread but rather it confuses the readers like I.
After having said that, SNM met and said that they're what they called
"Somaliland"-The rest you know!
Carro Dhulbahante and Carro Warsangeli rejected that secratarian concept
of the Isak clans, not because they are non-Dhulbahante and non-Warsangeli
clans but rather that the concept is for the Isak clans, therefore, USP
proposed an alternative to that, that is, a united Somalia, where ordinary
people of all clans can feel proud to be Somali, once again. In the
meantime, they proposed a regional government for their clans, until a
unified government can be established.
To the concept of "Puntland" and SSDF's spokesman Mr. Walde is
something that no one knows about, including my new friend Abdirizak
Hassan of the Majeerteen clan-Harti. I would like to learn their agandas
and initiatives-however, let's not make similar mistakes yet again-We made
in the 60s that is, Dhulbahante, Warsangeli, and many other clans in
Somalia soil when we sing te songs of United Somalia, without
discussing our own futures, which we paid the biggest price of all! NOT
AGAIN dear!
Do not get me wrong that I am not aware of clan-lineage, infact,
I belong to a clan. However, what about other Darood children
throughout this world? What happenned to "Bosaaso Crowd"? Why not organize
a united Darood front rather than deceptions, and manipulations-No one is
interested tricks!
The best thing SSDF and other Darood political parties could do is to
organize a united Fronts amaongst Darood clans and establish various
regional governments where if neceassary, can and should declare an
independent state and it should be named "The Darood state" Then, let's
look that option, shall we?
Also, it is wrong to propose the divisions of Darood children, because
SSDF wants to get closer to Harti, it is a mistake. Let's give an
opportunity for SSDF to rethink their original plan or
inititaive-"Puntland" is not the answer but rather various regional
government for the Darood clans-Let's organize a Darood union for the
children of Darood! Then, let's all examine our own options separately-Is
Darood State the answer? If it is, let's concentrate that option and
abandon "Puntland" and other secratarian ideas. Shall we?
You wrote:
On Thu, 23 Apr 1998, Said Ibrahim wrote:
> Dear Faisal, I agree with you that carro Dhulbahante/Warsangali need to
> be very careful in their desire to join the emerging clan-states within
> somalia.
I must inform you that there has been meetings and consultations amongst
Dhulbahante and Warsangeli clans after the Cairo Accord which they have
proposed DHULBAHANTE and Warsangeli Republic. Also, this is an option for
us, keep in mind, WE RULE AND RUN OUR AFFAIRS IN CARRO DHULBAHANTE AND
CARRO WARSANGELI, therefore it is a natural thing for us to propose our
own agandas and initiatives. Moreover, if the solutions lies various
republics, DHULBAHANTE AND WARSANGELI REPUBLIC is more realistic than
"PUNTLAND" or "SOMALILAND"-Keep that in mind always.
>However, I believe that the concept of Puntaland presents to
> these clans a new opportunity to re-assess their position and to
> negotiate for a clear decentralized system of equal representation and
> no domination.
It is natural thing for any political party to led its members. It is the
time that USP put it or resign altogether. It is us, the people from CARRO
DHULBAHANTE and CARO WARSANGELI's futures are at stake, therefore, Somalia
is already decentralised, it is the reality for all Somali clans. Isn't
it? Why do we what a central state to tell us that we are decentralised
nations?
>If Puntaland offers that prospect, they should consider
> going with that.
Why should we have to abandon our political parties, regions, and Republic
and nations. Is it because we belong to Harti? Keep in mind, We are
targated in Somalia soil because we happen to be Darood!
SSDF is not more realistic and they are vissionless, let the fools
querrrel "Puntland" and "Somaliland"!
>If clan politics is bad and shouldn't matter, as some
> would claim, then the concept of Somaliland or Puntaland should be
> shelved, and the greater, more realistic goal of united somalia should
> be pursued. But we all know that that is unlikely to happen.
According to Maxamed Xaashi Gaani's interview with the BBC-Somali Service,
said "Somalis resorted to clanish and clanism" Therefore, as Ganni
pronounced in Nairobi, Kenya. I am not interested Somalia, why should the
Darood clans alone have to concern about Somalia?
> Therefore, these regional mini-states are valid starts, if they can be
> sustained. If clan-based ideology is the leading principal in this
> mini-state agenda, then for carro Dhulbahante/Warsangali it would make
> more sense to go with the Puntaland idea.
It would make more sense to declare DHULBAHANTE & WARSANGELI REPUBLIC. It
is our land and country and it is more appropriate for the people of Carro
Dhulbahante and Carro Warsangeli.
>But not without a clearly defined objective and relationship terms.
That would have applied for all Somali clans. Let's each clan run it is
nation and let's all come to the table to discuss the United States of
Somalia. Shall we?
> If 30 years of united somalia can not justify the concept of greater
> somalia, I think 30 years of shared British colonialism should not
> provide as a moral reason for unity.
That is, why I have proposed in 1995 clan state for all Somali clans in
Somalia soil, my ideas are openly discussed and considered on the basis of
clan-state. USP, must prepare its members for the declaration of
DHULBAHANTE & WARSANGELI Republic.
> We really need to start from the beginning, and the beginning means
> regional, clan-based community leadership and organizations that should
> eventually coalesce into greater regional solidarity.
Let's all work together for common purposes and shared values. Let's all
declare separate states, so that we can represent our own clans for their
betterment and common values.
>Slicing the somali state into mini-states irrespective of the nature of
>the communities that make up these mini-states is a recipe for future
> genocidal events (a self-repeating african dilemma).
I do not see any problem whatsover mini-state of defined common purposes
and shared values. If the answer lies with various republic, we shall
propose that option and led our communities, there is no one else to wait!
> This is not to say that carro Dhulbahante/Warsangali should reject the
> Somaliland concept.
We have rejected what Isaks called "Somaliland" and instead proposed a
regional government until Somali clans establish a united state for all
Somali clans. However, since we have wintnessed that all Somali clans are
not interested a unity of purpose, USP must prepare the declaration of
DHULBAHANTE & WARSANGELI Republic. That is, where our solutions lies-After
We declare our republic, we can deal with our neighbors in a cooperative
manner, (sign treaties of cooperations) they can concentrate their affiars
and we shall do the same.
>all it means is that they should have a control as
> to what they getting into, and their security and clan interests should
> be very clearly defined and pre specified.
Why shouldn't so-called "Somaliland" or "Puntland" talk of the unity of
the people of Somalia. They have no business of telling us, what we have
to do or, not to do, that is, what we must do. It is our turn to declare
DHULBAHANTE & Warsangeli Republic.
>Currently, the disorganization, lack of a defined position, and the lack
>of trustworthy leaders among these clans makes this task almost
>impossible.
> Aidid.
It is not about leaders, rather it is about the future of Somali clans.
Many Somalis are making miscalculations, and have lost golden
opportunities. There is no way we shall wait, we must declare DHULBAHANTE
& WARSANGELI REPUBLIC.
Nabad
Faisal Hassan
mohamed
Dear Faisal Hassan,
Are you Dhulbahante or Warsangali? If you are Dhulbahante, then you do
not have the right to speak or make decision for Warsangali and vise
versa. Just declare your 'independence' and 'Republic" and leave others
alone! can you? You are not closer to Majerteen than the other.
Ahmed Barre
Dear Faisal:
Hadii laba habal Bariiroow kaa isugu baaqdo
hadba kii bahnimo kuu xigaa la isu buriyaayee
Barkadna waa u dhaamaa hashuu boobi Iidoore
--Isma'il mire
In the world of politics, there always is a compromise negotiation ,
leverage, deter. etc. whether it is clan based compromise or national based
one. Because the politics is who gets what, there must be avoiding
lose—lose situations.
Thus, the above poem is one good example of how to compromise in clan
politics.
In the above poem, Isma'il Mire was talking to Barriir, another famous
poet. (I think Barriir is in SILSILADDII GUBA OR SILSILADII HALAC DHEERE)
The story was that Barriir who was a Dhulbahante whose sub-clan had a
problem with Barkad, another Dhulbahante sub-clan, was planning to seek
asylum to Iidoor (Isaaq), fearing the safety of his camels.
It was then that Ismail Mire said the above poem, which he was saying to
Bariir
"instead of seeking asylum to Iidoor who will probably raid your camels
you better stay and let Barkad, who were your brothers, raid them". To
Ismail Mire, if Bariir can't feel save for his camels, then he must let
them to those who are his close kin, Barkad, raid the camel.
Maybe you have been wondering what this damn-old story has to do with this
topic in hand. Well, let me tell you it is same old story because if today
Dhulbahante and Warsangeli have a dilemma of joining Isaaq for
Somaliland or Majeerteen for Puntland, then, maybe it is good idea if they
recall Isamil mire's word of joining " hadba kii bahnimo u xiga la isu
buriyaaye". And join to their brother Majeerteen for Puntland. Then, isn't
a good idea if you guys join your brothers???
Abdi Daud
>"Ahmed Barre" <Yas...@direct.ca> writes:
>Hadii laba habal Bariiroow kaa isugu baaqdo
>hadba kii bahnimo kuu xigaa la isu buriyaayee
>Barkadna waa u dhaamaa hashuu boobi Iidoore
>
>--Isma'il mire
>
>........
>Maybe you have been wondering what this damn-old story has to do with this
>topic in hand. Well, let me tell you it is same old story because if today
>Dhulbahante and Warsangeli have a dilemma of joining Isaaq for
>Somaliland or Majeerteen for Puntland, then, maybe it is good idea if they
>recall Isamil mire's word of joining " hadba kii bahnimo u xiga la isu
>buriyaaye". And join to their brother Majeerteen for Puntland. Then, isn't
>a good idea if you guys join your brothers???
Dear Barre,
I hate to spoil your highly ritualistic trances that intoxicated your mind when
you were (are) busy of recalling this historic piece of Isma'il Mire peom.
After all, I know it will not pay off here or hereafter. What captures my
attention in surprise was your alternate ritualistic trible conflict resolution
that you offered to brethren in blood while claiming the turban of muslim
brotherhood.
If this is a sneaky snap shot took you to re-visit the old ritual trible play
so be it. But please stay on one course. Either stick on muslim brotherhood
principles which defies this ardhi trances or embrace this one way full blown
ritual trible play in doubt. You can't have both ways.
For a real muslim, neither so called Somaliland nor this Puntland decieve
his/her conviction. Call your brethren to Islam and harmony instead of calling
them the trible envision of "hadba kii bahanimo kuu xigaa la isu buriyaaye".
Btw, did you forget to proof the authencity of that saying that you claimed
it's Hadith. I'm still waiting your answer. You can say Laa adrii ( I don't
know) and we know then it's nisful cilmi.
Ina Da'ud
Mohamed Salah Ali
In The Name of Allah Nost Gracious most merciful
Dear Brother /Sisters
According to our History as Somalis we were never been under the rule of Islam,apart from small section of somali west during the time of great Ahmed Gurey and Imam Noor.
we also know we never had central government but clan states under the banner of Ugaas sultaan,Islaan,Islaw,garaad,Malaaq,and so on who were never cultivated harmonies relationship for thier people axcept feudal wars based on clanisim.
As we staggered with clanisim wars the era of clonisim was born and as it happened in many parts of the world we were conquered after heavy resistant.
After the end of colnnial rule the dream of many somalis were shattered due to the secession of various government shuch as capitalism(musuqmaasuqii).. communism, dictatorship, and eventually led to the anarchy which is burning on our Home and also allowed the warlords to dare the creation of new clan states.
Dear Brothers are the people who applauding the creation of clan states such as somaliland,Puntiland,Jubbaland not afraid of history repeating itself and that is re-colonized again, instead they should look for another alternative and much forword.
Brothers we have seen as a somalis that different kind of rules and so far we haven't anything but bitter fruits , THEN WHY DONT WE GIVE FAIR GO TO THE MULLHS AND PLACE OUR DESTINY AND FAITH IN THIER HANDS.
REGARDS
M.S.ALI
Said Ibrahim <s...@po.cwru.edu> wrote in article <354027BC...@po.cwru.edu>...
> Dear Faisal, I agree with you that carro Dhulbahante/Warsangali need to
> be very careful in their desire to join the emerging clan-states within
> somalia. However, I believe that the concept of Puntaland presents to
> these clans a new opportunity to re-assess their position and to
> negotiate for a clear decentralized system of equal representation and
> no domination. If Puntaland offers that prospect, they should consider
> going with that. If clan politics is bad and shouldn't matter, as some
> would claim, then the concept of Somaliland or Puntaland should be
> shelved, and the greater, more realistic goal of united somalia should
> be pursued. But we all know that that is unlikely to happen.
> Therefore, these regional mini-states are valid starts, if they can be
> sustained. If clan-based ideology is the leading principal in this
> mini-state agenda, then for carro Dhulbahante/Warsangali it would make
> more sense to go with the Puntaland idea. But not without a clearly
> defined objective and relationship terms.
> If 30 years of united somalia can not justify the concept of greater
> somalia, I think 30 years of shared British colonialism should not
> provide as a moral reason for unity.
> We really need to start from the beginning, and the beginning means
> regional, clan-based community leadership and organizations that should
> eventually coalesce into greater regional solidarity. Slicing the
> somali state into mini-states irrespective of the nature of the
> communities that make up these mini-states is a recipe for future
> genocidal events (a self-repeating african dilemma).
> This is not to say that carro Dhulbahante/Warsangali should reject the
> Somaliland concept. all it means is that they should have a control as
> to what they getting into, and their security and clan interests should
> be very clearly defined and pre specified. Currently, the
mohamed
There were no nations as we know them today before 19th century any
where in the world. May be you are confusing empires with modern nation
states. In the ancient world single men (kings, emperors) were creating
their own empires single handily and ruled until another strong men came
around and replaced them and their territory expanded or reduced whatever
the case may be. By the way there existed many muslim states in Somalia
before 19th century- marka, Banadir, Awdal, Bandar Qasim -all had Islamic
States or non-islamic ruler at one time or the other which were similar
to the feudals of Europe and Asia. There were also the Muslim states of
Dawara, Futajaro, Adal, Harar, and many others in the Somali inhabited
areas of Ethiopia. Further more Islamic system of government is as functional
as any other system of government, but the question is what type government
it is going to be- totalitarian, dictatorship, or democratic.
Ahmed Barre
Abdi Daud <abdi...@aol.com> wrote in article
<199804250807...@ladder01.news.aol.com>...
Hebelkaa Daud:
Man, I have a big problem to follow your logic -- big one!
The truth is we have been arguing back and forth for while and yet we
haven't reached a single solution. I personally believe that the most
misunderstand is from your side. Remember it is you who always ask then,
all at once it is you who close the topic claiming I am an empty man or
whatever.
> . What captures my attention in surprise was your alternate ritualistic
trible conflict resolution that you offered to brethren in blood while
claiming the turban of muslim
> brotherhood.
Did I ever claim that I am belong to Muslim brotherhood?
> If this is a sneaky snap shot took you to re-visit the old ritual trible
play
> so be it.
Who on earth with JINN and INSI can refuse my God-given rights of the old
ritual tribal play as long as I am having fun with?
do you think I am belong to WAHAABIYA cult who blindly follow set of
narrow- minded dogmas which deported from Saudi Arabia after they had given
up their rights of free thinking. Please don't put me in a cage!
> But please stay on one course. Either stick on muslim brotherhood
> principles which defies this ardhi trances or embrace this one way full
blown
> ritual trible play in doubt. You can't have both ways.
Hey, you are making a great mistake here which means you don't know the
difference
between a piece of history and believing a clanism or tribalism. I think if
a foreign person would have written that above piece of history, you should
have been appreciated.
Distinguish history from clanism.
> For a real muslim, neither so called Somaliland nor this Puntland
decieve
> his/her conviction. Call your brethren to Islam and harmony instead of
calling
> them the trible envision of "hadba kii bahanimo kuu xigaa la isu
buriyaaye".
I think it is like this time when you are out of touch, no where to be
reasoned with. Why do confuse Somaliland and puntland with a real Muslim?
you mean a real Muslim can't believe Somaliland or Puntland? is this
rejection of Somaliland or puntland is interms of nationalism (greater
Somalia) view or interms of Islamic view?
If you are saying it is Islamic one, what God has to say about Somaliland
or Puntland?. Be realistic, man. Wahabism, the rejection of the reality
doesn't take anywhere. it only makes you sound unrealistic and irrational
which is exactly how you sound.
> Btw, did you forget to proof the authencity of that saying that you
claimed
> it's Hadith. I'm still waiting your answer. You can say Laa adrii ( I
don't
> know) and we know then it's nisful cilmi.
about this hadith, I told you that I neither do recall the authencity nor
the narrator but I can try to make a research which I don't, for some
reasons, how long it takes. And I don't know why you time pressuring me.
Abdi Daud
>"Ahmed Barre" <Yas...@direct.ca> writes with fear:
>
>Hebelkaa Daud:
>Man, I have a big problem to follow your logic -- big one!
>The truth is we have been arguing back and forth for while and yet we
>haven't reached a single solution.
So far we've exchanged few serious questions which proven to many that you are
either empty man or careless kitaab gaable who got keyboard and screen and
don't understand what is he talking about.
> I personally believe that the most
>misunderstand is from your side. Remember it is you who always ask then,
>all at once it is you who close the topic claiming I am an empty man or
>whatever.
Regardless of its value, your message was in no near to misunderstood. In
addition, even though I still believe your emptiness ( when it comes of
understanding real Islam) I gave you benefit of doubt, but I doubt it bonded
you out of your mess.
>> . What captures my attention in surprise was your alternate ritualistic
>trible conflict resolution that you offered to brethren in blood while
>claiming the turban of muslim
>> brotherhood.
>
>
>Did I ever claim that I am belong to Muslim brotherhood?
What a short memory?. Yesterday, you denied you never welcomed me back to this
forum when one of fellow caver caught you red handed and now you're painting
here with another plain denial. What is shame to be a muslim brotherhood?. Is
is something honorary or minus?!!
>
>> If this is a sneaky snap shot took you to re-visit the old ritual trible
>play
>> so be it.
>
>Who on earth with JINN and INSI can refuse my God-given rights of the old
>ritual tribal play as long as I am having fun with?
God never gave two hats. Either keep the turban of islam or what flavor your
old ritual trible play. Stick on one.
>do you think I am belong to WAHAABIYA cult who blindly follow set of
>narrow- minded dogmas which deported from Saudi Arabia after they had given
>up their rights of free thinking. Please don't put me in a cage!
To zero your empty nest you said it before without shame more than this?. When
I ask you to define what is all about Wahaabiyah and its narrow dogma you fail
to come up anything. When we expose your ignorant and arrongancy you simply
evaded from the scene. At that time I thought Sh. Daxlaani was betterdefendant
than your wicked stand when he stormed the suufi cage to defame the manhaj
alrasuul because he was victim of all time. Take this challenge and call all
bikhayliga warajilikiga then tell/prove us: what is Wahaabiyah? who gave them
this shabby name? Where and I repeat loudly and clearly did they voilated the
Islamic shariah? I need prove from Quran and sunnah or any athar. How they
become narrow thinking? Please prove what you claim to see the world whether
you're the one putting himself is cage or not?.
>> But please stay on one course. Either stick on muslim brotherhood
>> principles which defies this ardhi trances or embrace this one way full
>blown
>> ritual trible play in doubt. You can't have both ways.
>
>Hey, you are making a great mistake here which means you don't know the
>difference
>between a piece of history and believing a clanism or tribalism. I think if
>a foreign person would have written that above piece of history, you should
>have been appreciated.
>Distinguish history from clanism.
I can't follow your logic here!!.
>> For a real muslim, neither so called Somaliland nor this Puntland
>decieve
>> his/her conviction. Call your brethren to Islam and harmony instead of
>calling
>> them the trible envision of "hadba kii bahanimo kuu xigaa la isu
>buriyaaye".
>
>I think it is like this time when you are out of touch, no where to be
>reasoned with. Why do confuse Somaliland and puntland with a real Muslim?
So you believe you can be real muslim when you're altering the foundation of
this ummah by supporting the division of this invisible nation.
>you mean a real Muslim can't believe Somaliland or Puntland? is this
>rejection of Somaliland or puntland is interms of nationalism (greater
>Somalia) view or interms of Islamic view?
Its due to Islamic view. By playing this ritualistic trible play (where all
xurumaat is voilated) you simply want everyone who is redhanded in Somali soil
be part of greater muslim ummah.
>If you are saying it is Islamic one, what God has to say about Somaliland
>or Puntland?. Be realistic, man. Wahabism, the rejection of the reality
>doesn't take anywhere. it only makes you sound unrealistic and irrational
>which is exactly how you sound.
This is a rubbish. If your realistic stand gives you to believe what the Somali
warlords are catering all along then facala dunyaa alsalaamu!!.
>> Btw, did you forget to proof the authencity of that saying that you
>claimed
>> it's Hadith. I'm still waiting your answer. You can say Laa adrii ( I
>don't
>> know) and we know then it's nisful cilmi.
>about this hadith, I told you that I neither do recall the authencity nor
>the narrator but I can try to make a research which I don't, for some
>reasons, how long it takes. And I don't know why you time pressuring me.
What kind of reason make you to flee answering this simple question. You wrote
it and claimed its authencity and you don't want to prove it?. How is that ?!
Poor Barre. Say I don't know simple!
Ahmed Barre
Hebelkaa Daud:
Although I really hate to do it, it seems to me that I have no choice other
than to say you HAADAA FIRAAQU BAYNII WA BAYNAKA, which means that was the
end of our discusion.
You know why? I am not up to making anyone feel bad nor do I want to get
anybody's nerve. I am only trying to have fun with these esteemed cavers
and just to chill out with them.
Thus, harassment and carrying anger with others is not my style of
chilling out. Not at all. And I can't tolerate that harassment-oriented
attitude of yours anymore.
Lastly, I will give you one simple suggestion. My suggestion I wish if you
read the following two books, if you can get them. May be these two books
can help our differences.
1. AL-SAXWATUL ISLAMI BAYNA TAFARUD WA-ALJUXUUD, "Real Islam lies between
extremism and rejection "by DR: Yusuf al-qardawi.
2. AL-SAXWATUL ISLAMI BAYNA IKHTILAFUL MASHRUUC WA TAFARUQUL MADMUUM,
"Real Islam lies between lawful disagreement and unlawful separation/cut
off" by also Dr. Yusuf al qardawi.
The first book, the Dr is trying to prove how neither the total rejection
of Islamic faith nor extremism is not the way.
The second one, yusuf al-qardawi is trying to show how much the early
Muslims were having disagreement in all Islamic history, yet with that
differences how they get along each other with peace, respect,
tranquillity, serenity and hormany.
Bro, that was the end of my discussion and my suggestion.
Abdi Daud
>"Ahmed Barre" <Yas...@direct.ca> wrote:
You can insult on all muslim group and cry for truce. Before, the Arabs has
said, "ramatnii bidaa'ihaa thuman insallat. Here you are again wearing the
turban of the people you never associated in their jihaad rather consider their
calling and standing about their fellow muslims. You want to hide your wicked
stand under the work of the sincer scholars who never attacks the work and the
jihaad of their fellow brethern muslims.
Barre, I told you before, the defamation of muslims has hard take off from this
medium. You can simply live with hate and the ill anger you have with
dissociation but no way we can let you paint on this wall - be they what U
called wahaabis or Ikhwaanis - being lied about their convictions and jihaad.
Take this simple advice, next time speak with knowledge and fear of Allah.
Otherwise shut up your lips while learning the real Islam that you negated
without reason from Xalaqaatil masjid.
Finally, I'm very happy to see this retreat happening without answering the
authencity of that saying you ignorantly claimed its hadith.. Good luck.
Ina Da'ud
samater
Ahmed Barre <Yas...@direct.ca> wrote in article <01bd7001$4a31d560$71f5aecc@barre>...
>
laba habal Bariiroow haddey kaa isugu baaqdo
> hadba kii bahnimo kuu xigaa la isu buriyaayee
> Barkadna waa u dhaamaa hashuu boobi Iidoore
'Ismial Mire Raximahullaah'
Without doubt the Only valuable thing we inherited form our ancestors is peotry which refelect our culture and social values but in my opinion the poetry which Mr Barre stated is not partly good example for the topic in hand.
Because Bidhiidh had just two choices but Warsangeli And Dhulbahante have third choice which is to stay away from the monsters (Bahal) and peacefuly create Thier own clan state and i sure they can afford.
also I see here Majerteen,Warsngeli,Dhulbahante but i am mising the young one so is he preparing onather clan state or he been dominated by oldest one.
Samater.
Ahmed Barre <Yas...@direct.ca> wrote in article <01bd7001$4a31d560$71f5aecc@barre>...
>
> Dear Faisal:
>
>
> Hadii laba habal Bariiroow kaa isugu baaqdo
> hadba kii bahnimo kuu xigaa la isu buriyaayee
> Barkadna waa u dhaamaa hashuu boobi Iidoore
>
> --Isma'il mire
>
> In the world of politics, there always is a compromise negotiation ,
> leverage, deter. etc. whether it is clan based compromise or national based
> one. Because the politics is who gets what, there must be avoiding
> lose—lose situations.
> Thus, the above poem is one good example of how to compromise in clan
> politics.
>
> In the above poem, Isma'il Mire was talking to Barriir, another famous
> poet. (I think Barriir is in SILSILADDII GUBA OR SILSILADII HALAC DHEERE)
>
> The story was that Barriir who was a Dhulbahante whose sub-clan had a
> problem with Barkad, another Dhulbahante sub-clan, was planning to seek
> asylum to Iidoor (Isaaq), fearing the safety of his camels.
>
> It was then that Ismail Mire said the above poem, which he was saying to
> Bariir
> "instead of seeking asylum to Iidoor who will probably raid your camels
> you better stay and let Barkad, who were your brothers, raid them". To
> Ismail Mire, if Bariir can't feel save for his camels, then he must let
> them to those who are his close kin, Barkad, raid the camel.
>
Mohamed salah Ali
mohamed <moh...@ninenet.com> wrote in article <01bd71b5$66f69fe0$a60626cb@kncwubxl>...
Dear Mohamed Slah Ali,
There were no nations as we know them today before 19th century any where in the world. May be you are confusing empires with modern nation states. In the ancient world single men (kings, emperors) were creating their own empires single handily and ruled until another strong men came around and replaced them and their territory expanded or reduced whatever the case may be. By the way there existed many muslim states in Somalia before 19th century- marka, Banadir, Awdal, Bandar Qasim -all had Islamic States or non-islamic ruler at one time or the other which were similar to the feudals of Europe and Asia. There were also the Muslim states of Dawara, Futajaro, Adal, Harar, and many others in the Somali inhabited areas of Ethiopia. Further more Islamic system of government is as functional as any other system of government, but the question is what type government it is going to be- totalitarian, dictatorship, or democratic.
Mohamed Salah Ali wrote:
Mohamed salah Ali
test
mohamed <moh...@ninenet.com> wrote in article <01bd71b5$66f69fe0$a60626cb@kncwubxl>...
Dear Mohamed Slah Ali,
There were no nations as we know them today before 19th century any where in the world. May be you are confusing empires with modern nation states. In the ancient world single men (kings, emperors) were creating their own empires single handily and ruled until another strong men came around and replaced them and their territory expanded or reduced whatever the case may be. By the way there existed many muslim states in Somalia before 19th century- marka, Banadir, Awdal, Bandar Qasim -all had Islamic States or non-islamic ruler at one time or the other which were similar to the feudals of Europe and Asia. There were also the Muslim states of Dawara, Futajaro, Adal, Harar, and many others in the Somali inhabited areas of Ethiopia. Further more Islamic system of government is as functional as any other system of government, but the question is what type government it is going to be- totalitarian, dictatorship, or democratic.
Mohamed Salah Ali wrote:
Mohamed salah Ali
Dear Mohamed
In my short statement I never mentioned there nations before 19th century any were in the world,what I am putting through is there was never an Islamic rule in our country except as I stated aerlier Small areas like Harar and Awdel.
The Islamic khalifets did not rule in any part of Somalia though we had slightly short time rule from Khilafa Cusmania which was stationed at Berbera and a long the coastline of present N.westernSomalia.But if we look sothren part Arab trading cumminities stablished towns on the coast in the middle age which came under Omani rule in the 16th century that was not an Islamic Rule until 1889 when colonial rule begin,
But Brotther all the other parties in our country were under like Ali Yusuf , Graad Mohamud and so on and don't tel me they were states.
Brother we have been through tough time and we can't longer bear any more therefore as the people of Somalia let as give a chance to the Mullahs,I am sure will be the ultimate solution of our crises...
Regards
M.S.Ali
mohamed <moh...@ninenet.com> wrote in article <01bd71b5$66f69fe0$a60626cb@kncwubxl>...
Dear Mohamed Slah Ali,
There were no nations as we know them today before 19th century any where in the world. May be you are confusing empires with modern nation states. In the ancient world single men (kings, emperors) were creating their own empires single handily and ruled until another strong men came around and replaced them and their territory expanded or reduced whatever the case may be. By the way there existed many muslim states in Somalia before 19th century- marka, Banadir, Awdal, Bandar Qasim -all had Islamic States or non-islamic ruler at one time or the other which were similar to the feudals of Europe and Asia. There were also the Muslim states of Dawara, Futajaro, Adal, Harar, and many others in the Somali inhabited areas of Ethiopia. Further more Islamic system of government is as functional as any other system of government, but the question is what type government it is going to be- totalitarian, dictatorship, or democratic.
Mohamed Salah Ali wrote:
faisal hassan
Corrections:
I've written abit confusing sentences earlier and I would like to clarify
before I proceed. For example, Where I wrote what- It is "need": "Why
do we need a central state to tell us that we are decentralised nations"
Replace what to need. Understood.
In the middle of my previous discussion I wrote "it is", I meant to say
"let each clan run its nation"
I'll try to clarify my writings as much as possible.
allow me to respond what some of you wrote
Nabad
Faisal
faisal hassan
On Fri, 24 Apr 1998, mohamed wrote:
> Dear Faisal Hassan,
> Are you Dhulbahante or Warsangali? If you are Dhulbahante, then you do
> not have the right to speak or make decision for Warsangali and vise
> versa. Just declare your 'independence' and 'Republic" and leave others
> alone! can you? You are not closer to Majerteen than the other.
Mohamed:
Do you know that Dhulbahante and Warsangeli clans share one political
party called USP and have worked together in many issues in the past and
are working together in many fronts as we speak. Therefore, it is a
natural thing for me to propose a more cooperative union amongst
themselves.
Nabad
Faisal
faisal hassan
On Sat, 25 Apr 1998, Ahmed Barre wrote:
> Dear Faisal:
> Hadii laba habal Bariiroow kaa isugu baaqdo
> hadba kii bahnimo kuu xigaa la isu buriyaayee
> Barkadna waa u dhaamaa hashuu boobi Iidoore
> --Isma'il mire
Barre:
What is the relationship between this poem and the future of my clansmen?
I am afraid you misunderstood? Perhaps, you're confused with clan
relationships? What we are talking about is not keenship relationships but
rather the futures of our destinies. Perhaps, you're confused because you
can not distinguish the relationship between individual and society.
You see in the above poem Ismaaciil Mire (Peace be upon him) where
speaking to one single person and his troubles, therefore, what I am
talking about is not the same.
Maskaxdii adduunkoow
malaasan
Muujadaheeda...muujadaheeda...fill it the rest.
> In the world of politics, there always is a compromise negotiation ,
> leverage, deter. etc. whether it is clan based compromise or national based
> one. Because the politics is who gets what, there must be avoiding
> lose—lose situations.
> Thus, the above poem is one good example of how to compromise in clan
> politics.
The above poem tell us nothing in 1998. If anyone is going to support
someone because of his kenship, SSDF would have supported Somali
Democratic Republic!
Why shouldn't SSDF support former President Maxamed Siyaad Barre of the
Marehan clans. They did not support him not because he is Darood but
rather they thought that their best interest lies with opposition and
declared publically their opposition with the President of Somalia. Tell
us for one reason, why should anyone join SSDF agendas?
Also, you should know that SSDF and Majeerteen is not the same. You will
be surprised how many Majeerteen children are fartherless because of SSDF.
Moreover, SSDF does not control MUDUG, Bari because there are other clans
who live there. It is not all Majeerteen clans. There is indeed a dilemma
for them, not for us because we control our lands.
There are other clans in Mudug, and in Bari who are not member of SSDF.
Who are they?
They are Darood clans, Hawiye clans, and Midgans. Are you going to
tell us that all these clans support SSDF proposal and "Puntland"? I doubt
it!
We are not interetsed make enemies in Mudug, in Bari and elsewhere in the
country, we've already paid the biggest price of all, that is, the Darrood
clans, including Warsangeli and Dhulbahante. We must be very, very careful
with anyone's agandas. We must lead our communities and declare our own
republics.
> The story was that Barriir who was a Dhulbahante whose sub-clan had a
> problem with Barkad, another Dhulbahante sub-clan, was planning to seek
> asylum to Iidoor (Isaaq), fearing the safety of his camels.
The difference of the two stories, that is, Barriir and USP members are
that we are seeking not asylum whereas Barriir might have sought asylum
amonsgt Isak clans. We are not and we are leading our communities. This is
the difference, do not mix BUN & SALIID labaddu isma qaataane!
> Maybe you have been wondering what this damn-old story has to do with this
> topic in hand. Well, let me tell you it is same old story because if today
> Dhulbahante and Warsangeli have a dilemma of joining Isaaq for
> Somaliland or Majeerteen for Puntland,
There is no dilemma for us, not at all. When your clansmen preached
falsehood, deception and lies. It was us who opposed them and are opposing
them not because we hate Isaks but rather we do not wish to join
their agandas. However, this time, we are determine to lead our
communities and declare our own Republics.
Let the fools quarrel "The Isak land" and "Puntland"
>then, maybe it is good idea if they
> recall Isamil mire's word of joining " hadba kii bahnimo u xiga la isu
> buriyaaye". And join to their brother Majeerteen for Puntland. Then, isn't
> a good idea if you guys join your brothers???
Who is my brothers and Sisters? Why should I have to join anyone,
including yours and theirs? I do not have to, because I decided not to
join their secratarin concepts-it is not my best interest!
Nabad
Faisal Hassan